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Agents of SHIELD - Season 3 - Henry Simmons promoted to regular

Jun 4, 2015

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Though Alphonso “Mack” Mackenzie (Henry Simmons) almost quit the organization at the end of last season, Coulson eventually got him to change his mind—and it looks like now he’s sticking around for good!

Simmons is now the latest star to join the regular cast of “Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.” for Season 3 when it returns to Tuesdays on ABC this fall, following quickly after the word that Luke Mitchell will also become a regular part of the series.

“Mack’s story from Season 2 left him at a great place for us to continue, opening up new possibilities for the character as he takes charge of overseeing
Henry Simmons stars as Mack in 'Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'
Henry Simmons returns as Mack
S.H.I.E.L.D.’s storehouse of unexplainable or alien objects,” said Executive Producer/Marvel’s Head of Television, Jeph Loeb. “We couldn’t be more excited to add Mack to our regular cast of heroes.”

This will mark Simmons' third stint as a regular on a TV series, having previously played Detective Baldwin Jones on “NYPD Blue” and Isaac Wright on “Shark.”

"Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." is Executive Produced by Joss Whedon ("Marvel's The Avengers," "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"); Jed Whedon & Maurissa Tancharoen, ("Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." pilot co-writers, "Dollhouse," "Dr.Horrible's Sing-Along Blog"); Jeffrey Bell ("Angel," "Alias"); and Jeph Loeb (“Marvel’s Agent Carter,” “Marvel’s Daredevil,” "Lost").

"Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." is produced by Marvel Television and ABC Studios.

"Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." returns for an exciting third season, Tuesdays this fall on ABC. For more information on the series and the other exciting Marvel Television projects, stay tuned to Marvel.com.


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185 comments:

  1. Well thank God because he deserves it over Luke, as much as I like him and am happy for him.


    BUT THERE'S STILL TOO MANY SERIES REGULARS. PLEASE STOP.

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  2. Meh, don't really care much for his character.

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  3. It's rare, but there's been a couple of shows that had 10 or more regulars, like Lost or Prison Break. The excessive number of storylines that come with too many regulars can be trimmed if you don't write them for each character but for 2 or 3. Example: Bobbi's story also being Hunter's story.

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  4. No surprise after all he is part of the team.

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  5. The other shows can balance all the regulars they have. AoS proved last season they couldn't balance them.

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  6. Took you long enough AoS!

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  7. They balanced very well in season 2A IMO. Season 2B was, admittedly, problematic, they put too much focus in the story of Skye becoming the superhero Quake that everyone else's stories suffered as a result. I don't think we'll be seeing much of that from now on.

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  8. Wich characters DO you like on this show? ;)

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  9. Hahahaha, I was going to ask him just that but ended up backtracking! :)

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  10. Took them long enough! I thought he was about to be killed off in the premiere hence the lack of promotion lol. Clearly I was wrong.

    I mostly do not care for him and he annoyed me in the Shield vs. Shield arc since he was very unreasonable for the most part (unlike Bobby) but I liked him in the finale enough. Probably still the character I like the least but I don't mind him either.

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  11. Pretty much all others, minus "He Who Must not be Named", of course.

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  12. The problem with 2B was that it actively made me dislike Skyes character who I previously loved. It took them about 3 episodes to have me go from "hubba hubba, girl is hot AND fun" to "meh, I'd rather have her dead now".

    If a show manages to turn characters sour THAT quickly some re-evaluation is in order

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  13. I wish OUAT would simply swap the cast more often. I am not sure we still need Snow and David as regulars at this point for instance. They could just recur as Emma's parents. And there are so many characters in that world worth exploring. But I think I am a minority, most people complain that OUAT needs to focus more on the main cast anyway, I am the one who disagrees and always wants more characters introduced in that world.

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  14. I like Ward. Obviously not as a person but I think he a very interesting character!

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  15. Eh, I think everyone knows how I feel about him at this point.

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  16. I was fed up with the excessive focus on Skye's specialness by the end of last season as well, so I hope now her story'll take a backseat in favor of the others.

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  17. Fighting May was not her finest moment.

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  18. I'm going out on a limb and predict two major characters dying be this mid-season finale.
    Hell, I wouldn't even be surprised if Simmons actually died instead of just being absorbed at this point.


    They have a few pretty similiar character archetypes on the show now:


    May - Mockingbird (the female badass)
    Simmons - Fitz - Mack (the team tech-y)
    Coulson - Skye - Lincoln (the special snowflake)
    Ward - Hunter (the generic white badass...granted these two aren't too similar since one is a villain)


    I'm pretty certain that at least two or three are going to be taken out of the equation pretty soon

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  19. I'm with you, I'm really happy that they don't focus on the main characters all the time, they did that in season 2 and their stories just weren't as good. I like them introducing new characters and the casting is always fantastic (thinking of Elizabeth Mitchell and Victoria Smurfit) but there are a lot of already established characters they can still use, like Ruby, Mulan, Ariel etc.

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  20. She generally didn't have many too well done moments in 2B, Chloes acting got me frustrated a lot this season (granted I'm very..:VEEEERRRYYYY picky with my actors)

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  21. Don't you dare talk about Simmons dying!

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  22. Well...I stopped watching OUAT since it became obvious how ship heavy season 4 would become early on.


    Plus I disliked Will on OUATIW and firgued "hell,now it's time to abandon OUAT as well"


    However I would totally endorse a complete cast switcheroo, only leaving Emma, Rumple and Regina around while the others recur...especially Henry can leave as far as I care

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  23. That's my hope too but so far everything I've hoped for out of this show hasn't come true!

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  24. http://www.quickmeme.com/img/c3/c317f388e464bee586675ce63e1f37792a03bfe83c4ea937ebcb2c0ec6051fb9.jpg



    ;)

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  25. I truly didn't until now lol.

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  26. Agreed, I had this badass concept for AoS (11 episodes dealing with a problem from each major Marvel movie. Like a half season dealing with the Kree, a half season dealing with Ultron remnants etc. and all taking the movies style and tone, like being more foul mouthed and space-y in the GotG arc and more serious in the Ultron arc)


    That said I'm going with May and Lincoln dying by this midseason finale

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  27. A large part of why I enjoyed season 4 so much was because how not ship heavy it was :P I mean in the fandom ofc it's always ship heavy but I didn't think it was in the show at all.


    Will was my favourite character in OUATIW but he was so pointless in OUAT this season. He literally just stood in the background most of the time. I was all for Henry leaving as well until this season, especially the finale.

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  28. I think Lincoln's likely to be fiting the team tech-y rather than the special snowflake one or at least with one leg in each side. They didn't use it all that much last season, only in a few bits in "Afterlife", but he WAS finishing a med school degree and has extensive knowledge of Inhuman biology, so I could definitely see him being paired up with Fitz (and Simmons when she returns).

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  29. They wouldn't dare kill off May she's a fan favourite! Why do you think it will be her?

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  30. 2A was fine - I had minor issues with it but 2B went off the rails completely. And I love Skye but it was way too easy for her to learn how to control her powers. I was looking forward to more angst!

    Brett missed eight episodes, Jemma's trauma was never addressed and the fact that she killed someone was just brushed aside, Bobbi was tortured just to prove how ~evil~ Ward is and to get Lance to forgive her, Jiaying was screwed over so Cal could get his redemption (and he can blame everything on his evil wife and get away with it but God forbid Ward do the same), Kara and Ward - well they vilified two abuse victims and I'm not going to forgive that, and I'm probably forgetting other shit.

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  31. I stopped watching in the season premiere, when I saw all these Hook/Emma gifs I was also pretty certain that my decision was warranted.

    I'll check the rest of the show out when it's on DVD.


    I've already got SO MANY ship-heavy shows I'm having to ignore the ship parts of (Arrow, Flash, Originals) so I won't add OUAT to the mix (that is unless Dr. Whale finally returns, I need more Frankenstein and Land without Color)

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  32. Yes! He definitely earned it.

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  33. Yes to that! That is exactly my point. But I generally dislike the OUAT fandom much (no personal offense to anyone, it isn't anyone in particular, really) and they seem to complain about everything. Whenever a new character is introduced, there are always complains that it will take focus from the main characters and stuff. I think OUAT has such an infinite world that it adds to the viewing experience to explore with that world and add in new characters, not to mention that it elevates the stakes. One example are the flashback stories. Thankfully, this year they've finally learned that we do not need a freaking Rumple-Regina-David-Snow connection in every single flashbackstories. The Cruela flashback was widely beloved and had no connection whatosever. Do that more often. In Season 2 and 3 it was annoying and sometime painful how they forced the connections. They are better now but I would even take it to the next level in terms of removing people from the main cast and adding others.

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  34. Wow, really. LOL
    I have been saying for months now how much I hate him and want him dead.

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  35. I highly doubt they ever kill May. She is a fan favorite.

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  36. Because this is a show with the name Whedon attatched to it. Plus: killing fan favourites is something many shows love to do to create controversy.


    AoS has yet to kill off a regular and May would be a bang


    (plus: Whedon)

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  37. Never noticed lol. It is very hard to keep track of everyone's opinions on this site! Too many people, too many shows, too little time!

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  38. Rumple should also leave in my opinion. The character is more than played out and there is only so much back and forth they can do with him.

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  39. Soap opera can pull off an entire ensemble of contract players (which thend to be dozens, not including characters who recur on these shows) so it should be more about writing for every series regular where they all bring something to the table.


    It's all about writing episodes that allows sets of characters to interact with each other without necessarily having all of them appear together in one episode.

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  40. Yep, I get that.

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  41. Killing Neal/Baelfire for the sake of the Captain Swan ship was the worst thing they could've done to Rumple's story. He spent more than 100 years plotting a curse to take him to The Land Without Magic so he could be reunited with Bae, at the very least they should've treated the obvious storyline that'd come out of it - Rumple and Bae's trials and tribulations to mend their father/son relationship - with better care, not sweeping it under the rug to please a SHIP!

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  42. I usually hate fandoms obsessed with ships. I even dropped Teen Wolf just because of the fandom, my hatred for the shippers started to transfer onto the characters they shipped and it just ruined the show for me! S4 was still bad but I would have dropped it anyway.


    That Cruella flashback episode was probably my favourite episode of the series! I voted for that in the episode cup. Which characters would you like switched to a recurring role and which, if any, would you like gone for good?

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  43. That's not untrue, his story is worn out. However Robert Carlyle is essentially the only really capable actor in the shows cast. Cutting out your biggest name would be suicide.


    Lesser known names can leave but big names are something not many shows are graced with

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  44. Well if you know shippers they can take one scene and make it look like it took up the entire episode! I was breathing a sigh of relief after every episode because there was so little Hook and CaptainSwan :)


    I totally get the need to stay away from ship heavy shows, I've done that with Teen Wolf.

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  45. I think the opposite actually. I often feel that shows have shot themselves in the foot for having too big of names to let go which severely damaged their quality. If the character is played out, the actor should go, regardless of how good he is, period, in my opinion.

    Some examples of this: Robert Kneper on Prison Break, Zachary Quinto on Heroes, Dean Norris on Under the Dome, Damien Lewis on Homeland, Joe Morton on Scandal, etc.

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  46. I don't see Lincoln dying anytime soon, they went to great lengths to promote the character to regular despite having almost zero character development and doing close to nothing useful last season, they clearly have bigger plans for him in the next one for the move to make sense.


    May, however, I don't know. She ended last season all too happy, that's certain to not last.

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  47. Damien Lewis did leave Homeland though ;)

    But you're right on the leaving aspect, I'm just staying realistic with what they will or won't do.


    Especially these writers are very clingy to their actors. Best example: Terry O'Quinn on Lost

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  48. So I may have actually started clapping in my office when I saw this. This is good news.

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  49. Every single scene would be too much for me :P

    Oh, Teen Wolf is on my sh*tlist anyway

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  50. You have a point, but considering how big a deal it was, I think they had to put a lot of focus on it. Also, two of the major antagonists for the season were Skye's parents, so she was tied into a lot of stuff. I think you're right that they're gonna pull back from that. She'll likely be spending a lot of time with Lincoln this season, so if the writer's are smart, they'll focus more on his perspective than her's, keep her as an important character, but take some of the weight off her role in the show.

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  51. The decision to have him as a regular was made the second Luke Mitchell was cast. A characters arc doesen't dictate cast promotions. A contract dictates that


    Writers like to pretend that their arcs have the control over cast-crew but the sad truth is that striking contracts takes too long to have a storyline value into it

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  52. They wouldn't be making a contract that ups him to regular if they didn't intend his character to have far more relevance that has currently.

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  53. YES! YES! YES!


    Now my show is perfect.

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  54. I don't watch Teen Wolf so I can't comment there. But I don't think I ever had that phenomenon of the fandom influencing my viewing experience happening to me. I wold be furious if I ever felt like you did. But I think it is for the most part I don't even interact that much with the fandoms and I actively avoid the ones I know that bother me, like Arrow and OUAT which are shows in which the "fans" constantly dislike the episodes up to a degree that it becomes ridiculous - why would you even watch a show you constantly badmouth? I get it not liking episodes, obviously I don't like episodes of my shows at times, but it is crazy when that becomes the norm and not the exception as that means you shouldn't be watching in the first place. Some people also seem to go into the episode specifically looking for flaws, which I don't get at all. The shipping thing is not pleasant but it doesn't bother me nearly as much, it's just "there", I don't really care for it to be honest.


    As for OUAT, if it was up to me, I would:
    - downgrade David and MM to recurring
    - finish Rumple's story and have him show up only for the occasional flashback
    - decide on what to do with Belle, either by allowing her to be a character outside Rumple or by downgrading her to recurring
    - Will, and I trust I don't need to say more
    - maybe make Robin Hood a regular, depending on what they plan for him

    - make more use of recurring players that are supposed to be around Storybrook like Ruby, Cinderella, Malleficient, (post S4 that is), Mad Heater, August, Ariel, etc. (like they do with Mother Superior, Granny, etc.) and maybe bump one or two of these to regulars - I realize this one is hard because it depends on the actors

    - introduce one or two new characters that have a big backstory to be explored as regulars

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  55. Oh believe me, stuff like that happened on oh-so-many shows

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  56. Well I'm happy, and no its not too many regulars IMO. But then I'm used to huge ensemble shows like Lost and Game of Thrones.

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  57. But not on THIS show. I know there are shows out there that you wonder why character X or Y are regulars when they're barely used - Vampire Diaries comes to mind here - but Agents of SHIELD has an A-grade producing and writing team so I don't see them wasting resources upping an actor playing a (currently) bland character to regular status if they don't have big plans ahead for him.

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  58. He did, but imo it was a season later than it should have been. And I say this as a huuuge fan of the actor and the character.

    I also agree with you that OUAT won't do it, sadly.

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  59. This is the reason I lost interest on the show. They sold us on Rumple trying to reunite with his son and plotted the most convoluted plan to make it happen and then Bae died! Never have I been more disappointed in a show!

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  60. Rumple is my fav and he should stay IMO. I can't wait for S5 and see his new life + Dark Emma. Amazing season to me

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  61. They butchered Will so unnecessarily.Was his presence necessary? I wish they'd left him in Wonderland. They stripped him of everything I loved except his wit and humour. It was so hard to enjoy the three second appearance he was on.

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  62. *Sigh

    Okay, before this blows up again, let me just say this. If you want to speak about the show and the characters and leave it at that, that's fine. But if you continue to use the vilified abuse victims argument, then I'm simply going to stop responding. A lot of us have made it clear that we don't agree with these types of comments, and we've given a lot of reasons why. it's insulting to the writers and it brings real world abuse into the equation in a very broad sense when what we're talking about are two specific fictional characters with two specific backstories. It also makes it very difficult to have a civil, rational conversation about the show because these statements are so emotionally charged. You've made your case, we've listened, it's time to move on. Consider this my last word on the matter.

    Like I said, if you'd like to discuss some of the other things you've mentioned. I'd be happy to do that. I'll leave that up to you.

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  63. I was definitely very annoyed about it, it was very strange because I suddenly hated certain characters and actors but at the same time I knew it was completely illogical, but I still couldn't help hating them! I learned my lesson though and I tend to ignore fandoms now. STV is pretty much the only place I discuss shows now, no trolls and no ship wars here :)


    -I really love David but it does make sense to downgrade him, I'd love if they transformed his character somehow to make him relevant again (killing MM is where my mind went but they'd never do that!).
    -I love Rumple too but his story is fizzling out now and I can't see him being as relevant to the story if he isn't the Dark One. I'd love if they kept Belle as the research type, looking up creatures and stories to help the other characters, then helping Mother Superior to come up with ways to fight them.
    -I'd love to see Robin teaming up with his merry men (including Will to give him something to do) more often.
    - Under-use of already recurring characters has been an issue I've had for a while, mainly just with Ruby though because I love her so much!

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  64. I'm just assuming his storyline was non-existent because they couldn't get Emma Rigby to come back, it's just easier to accept it that way lol

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  65. This is why I love AoS, it's not ship heavy. I'm not a FitzSimmons/Philinda/Skye&Linc fan even if I like the characters individually and I hate Skyeward. The fandom is a different matter altogether.


    I'm just happy the show isn't ship centric.

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  66. Their writing is insulting to abuse victims (as an abuse survivor that I am friends with stated and she's not the only one who believes so).

    But sure, we can talk about the other things. I have no problem discussing those issues.

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  67. I agree with most of what you've written. And for the record, I really like David too but I think this would benefit the show as a whole. I like VERY MUCH your Belle and Robin ideas, wish they would do that!

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  68. Bae was one of my favourites as well, I'd take him over Hook any day.

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  69. To be honest, I don't care for Lincoln's character. I know we don't have a backstory on him, and we haven't been given a reason to like him, but his character is just so boring. I really don't want Skye to have a love interest in season 3. I mean, I don't see the problem of her not having one. She is a Shield agent after all and she should be busy figuring out her own shit. I would rather Lincoln and Skye form a close bff friendship, and then he tells her he's gay or something...and then he can die along with Ward.

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  70. Yes, my under-appreciated and not paired up mechanic with an ax to grind. I was happy about Lincoln, but I really wanted Mack to be a regular, so this makes me happy. Hope he and Turbo have lots of scenes together and I also liked his dynamic in the end with Skye.

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  71. I don't think I have cried for any fictional character on a show like I cried over Neal. I can't forgive his death.

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  72. he should totally upgrade to using an axe as his standart weapon. His axe whielding in the finale was badass

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  73. It makes a lot of sense for a show called "Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." (emphasis on the plural) to have a whole bunch of regulars. The trick is to keep the show well balanced.

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  74. The cast is getting too big, don't get me wrong I really like Mack but 10 series regular is going to be one hell of a job to write and directing (especially if you add Skye's team in the mix) I know it's called Agents Of SHIELD and doesn't mean that one of them will die (rememeber Tripp :-( )

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  75. I know, right? I loved every minute of it and I CACKLED at how he didn't hesitate or warn Coulson before chopping his hand off- that's my boy! And so many good lines, they did him dirty this season, but he was awesome in the finale.

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  76. I do think the cast is getting too big and I fear there won't be time to give everyone proper screen time and development. I've said this was Luke was promoted. That being said, Henry was already a regular in all but name last season so I don't think this makes any difference. He was in every single episode of S2 (whereas regular Brett missed like 8) so his screentime isn't going to grow. Luke's promotion is of greater concern because it's clearly a sign that he'll be taking up considerable space on the show.

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  77. Snow and Charming are the most boring characters on OUAT, so I definitely agree with you. They can still recur on the show, but there's nothing else they can do to keep the interest on them. And I'm all in on including new characters + they still need to use Will more and finally give us an explanation what happened after the OUATIW finale.

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  78. Okay, first, with Skye, I feel like the writers had to walk a difficult tight rope. She had angst about her powers for a good five episodes, which is enough for me. She was also the show's direct link to the inhumans and two of the show's main antagonists. They had to juggle a lot with her character and all things considered, I think they handled it as best they could.

    Ward being missing from eight episodes isn't a problem by itself. It made sense considering how far removed he was from the other story lines in 2b, and I think it helped keep the character unpredictable and interesting, a personal preference admittedly, but I think it's justified as a writing choice.

    Not sure what you're specifically referring two by Jemma's trauma. All the characters have been through a lot this year. As for her trying to kill Ward, I didn't feel like the show necessarily let her off the hook for it. It did a good job of establishing her motives, then it used her conversation with Fitz after to provide a counterpoint. It didn't provide a clear resolution because it wanted to leave it up to the viewer whether she was right or wrong. You believe the latter I take it. I think it's a bit more complicated than that, while others were rooting for her to succeed. That's fascinating to me, and again, a sign of good writing imo.

    Cal never blamed his wife for anything. In fact, he was in straight up denial until the very end. He was so blinded by the person she was before Whitehall tortured her, that he couldn't see how much she'd been consumed by hate, how she was manipulating him, which, if you rewatch 2b, you see that she did that a lot. Admittedly, Jaiying's turn to villainy was rather jarring, but it made sense in hindsight. You can see that she was always a little off, a little cold and detached. It's because she literally had her heart ripped out. Cal, meanwhile, always had a clear motivation; his love for his daughter. That was the motivation for his redemption and that made complete sense. Having said that he still payed for his crimes. He was given a second chance, but he also lost the memory of the thing he loved most.

    I'm not going to touch on the whole Kara/Bobbi/Ward stuff just now, but those are my thoughts on the rest. You can certainly make the argument that it wasn't to your liking, but I still don't see how this is bad writing.

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  79. I would go all Cavalry on their asses if they even entertained the prospect. Blasphemy!

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  80. I have characters I like more to be honest but I really think your reaction is more representative of the entire fandom!

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  81. His betrayal of Coulson was done with no regret and he is little too sanctimonious for me to enjoy having him around. I would have preferred he had just walked off the series and out the studio set.

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  82. I feel that people stress a bit too much with large casts. I think it is because Lost is my favorite TV show ever and they had such a big cast and knew how to use them very well for the most part. We don't really need every character to show up or have a story each episode imo, we just need that when they do, that story is well developed. At least that's how I see it. I don't really think it was a big deal to have Ward gone from the episodes he was in 2B since it served the show better and when he was in, he had a lot of focus and development. That works, imo.

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  83. Coulson blamed all of Cal's actions on Jiaying and that's how he technically got away with his crimes.

    But answer me this - how is it okay that Cal's actions can be blamed on Jiaying but Ward can't do the same (granted, I don't like it and think he was explaining things but the team took it as him blaming others)? Double, confusing stands.

    Jemma was clearly traumatized by the pod incident and instead of her and Fitz talking about it, they fought over Skye (which got annoying after a certain point, especially the fighting in general). It's like she didn't get a storyline either after returning from Hydra other than to provide conflict with the others.

    A regular - the third-billed - missing for eight episodes is a huge problem. I'm supposed to buy all this off-screen ~character development~? Nope, I'm not. Thus, the not being able to balance all the storylines they had.

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  84. It's kinda funny how many comments here are really about Henry Simmons/Mack, aka the topic of the article lol

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  85. I'm replying to you instead of KG because I don't want this to turn into another endless battle that goes nowhere.

    I just want to note that if I were an abuse victim, what I'd find offensive is the abject trivialization of the issue by repeatedly accusing a show of being offensive to abuse victims because someone is mad that their favorite ship didn't happen. It's disgusting that such a serious topic is being dragged down to this level. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that it takes some nerve to put on this SJW facade, as if you're so righteous, to hide the fact that you're nothing more than a scorned shipper/fangirl.

    I know how blunt and harsh I am and I honestly don't care, she's earned it.

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  86. I think Fitz and Coulson are the biggest fan favorites, but she's probably tied for 3rd place with Simmons or so.

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  87. Mack was tolerable in the season finale. If he stays that way then I don't mind him sticking around, otherwise he can be the first series regular to die.

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  88. I noticed that too. LOL.

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  89. ok, but refresh his storyline somewhat please, but no chance of that probably because of cilvil war plot coming I think.

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  90. Coulson said that Jaiying helped push Cal to become the monster he is. He never absolved him of his actions, as evidenced by Cal's later punishment, the same punishment/second chance he offered Ward. Was he a little more compassionate towards Cal? Maybe. I think part of that was because he was in a life or death situation and it was either talk Cal down or find a way to kill him, and I don't think he did it for Cal, he did it for Skye. Is that entirely fair? From an unbiased third party perspective, maybe not. But from Coulson's perspective it made sense, and the writers had to base Coulson's actions on the character, not on what was entirely fair.



    As for Jemma, people don't always behave rationally after suffering a trauma, and while its true that everybody on this show needs therapy, I think the show would become boring if they got it and worked through all their problems. Character flaws and conflict are what fuel a good story. It was important to put Fitz and Simmons on opposite sides of certain issues so they could grow as individuals. I tended to sympathize with Fitz's side more, but Jemma based her stances on logic and I had to admit that she often had a point. I will agree that the writers gave a little more attention to Fitz and maybe not quite enough to Jemma, but no show is perfect and it certainly didn't ruin, or even significantly tarnish the show or the character for me.


    Again, I think we'll have to agree to disagree about Ward. I felt like I could follow his arc this season well enough, so the lack of screen time didn't bother me. If it's any consolation, I think season three is gonna be a big season for Ward.

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  91. Yeah, but it's what I've come to expect from AoS posts here. Whatever, I'm celebrating, I love Mack, especially in the finale when they really let him shine.

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  92. They struggle with that during season 2. Let hope they realize that and are planning better.

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  93. I am not sure Coulson is more popular than May, is he really? And I think she really is more popular than Simmons.

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  94. Great! Kinda love the guy after the finale ;) Finally, he's a regular!

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  95. They all have their fanbases. This won't protect them. Those people ahve a hystory of killing main character and they tease at least one of the main 6 wouldn't finish season 3 alive.

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  96. Sigh... It always leads to the same, Ward...
    At first I liked Mack, then I hated him a little and now I like him again. That moment "I'm the guy who kills Gordon" was so funny lol Hope we get more of those.

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  97. I agree but being real, the propects are not good. Big cast on a Whedon/Jeff show. Yeah, not looking good.

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  98. If they kill off Fitz or Skye I will rebel.

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  99. I think they will fix that. It was necessary for Skye story arc that was teased since season 1. Now they got that out of the way so i think will be better.

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  100. I agree. Imo, Ward didn't need any more episodes to tell his story this year. One or two might have been nice, but they weren't absolutely needed. Another factor is that the Skye origin/Coulson resurrection mystery is done, which is going to free up a lot of screen time. I didn't mind that Skye got more screen time than the others because I like Skye and there was a reason for it. There isn't necessarily a reason for it anymore, so if she can take a step back and let the show be more of an ensemble, i think everything should work out fine.

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  101. I agree entirely with that.

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  102. I may not like skye ward but I do agree with what a lot of what you say. Skye taking a lot of focus did mess up other peoples storylines. I hated how jiaying turned out to be a villian just for cals redemption.

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  103. I think its safe to say only Coulson, Skye and Bobbi are good. The rest is on a bubble. There is also contract issues. All of them signed 3 years contract so if the series go on they will need to renew their contracts. Not sure its true but i heard from Ian fan that he wasn't all the happy working on the US and was pondering going back to work on the UK. So those stuff influences the characters future storylines.

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  104. Yeah, tell me about it. I never hated Mack, but they did him dirty for most of the season, at least he started and ended the season strong, so I hope we get more finale!Mack next season.

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  105. For now I think the most safe character is Coulson because he's died already and Coulson migrated from MCU to Marvel Comics, a first if I'm not mistaken. They will keep for probably as long as the show exists or Coulson returns to the movies full time (whatever that means).

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  106. This is awesome considering he has joined SHIELD again. Now the writers can fully develop his character so we can get to know him better. And let's hope that him and Fitz go back to that awesome friendship they had in the beginning of the season. The Guy Who Kills Gordon/Turbo FTW. Plus this will shut those naysayers up that keep on saying that Agents of SHIELD is racist because they are always killing POC. Well here you go. He's not Trip awesome as of yet but he sure as hell is getting there.

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  107. Oh no!!!!!!!!


    I love Fitz, I would hate to see him go. He's my second favourite (after Coulson).

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  108. I think so. They brought him back because he was that popular.

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  109. It's just an official announcement but the guy was practically a series regular this season.Glad to see him as a regular :)

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  110. Coulson was trying to talk down Mr Hyde, he picked up on what may have actually transpired all those years ago and went for the jugular when he realised it was all true. He would have done and said anything if he felt it would get Cal to "calm down". I don't think he initially said any of that out of conviction. It was just a happy coincidence that it was all true and he realised it and that's what lead him to working with Cal eventually, that and their mutual love for Skye and wanting to protect her.

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  111. He was in every single episode. He was a regular in every way except name.

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  112. I literally hate all those "AoS is racist" baseless arguments.

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  113. Exactly.I love him.

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  114. I could not agree more with you. That excuse is so idiotic to me and it just boggles my mind when people use it as their reasoning.

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  115. Coulson is the main link to the films and a large portion of the fans followed him to AoS from over there, so I think he's the most popular one. The only one who really might be able to upstage him is Fitz, I've seen nothing but pure love for the character all around since the beginning of Season 2, I think there are very very few people who don't like him.


    Simmons is pretty popular, I think - she took a hit in 2B because of her anti-Gifted stance and how she treated Skye, but by the end, people were excited about Fitz and she going on a date and totally horrified by the stone swallowing Simmons. So I think she's regained some of the love lost for her character. Maybe May has more fans than Simmons, but I think she, too, took a hit in 2B because of her complaints about Coulson keeping secrets from her which came of as silly (that's how organizations like SHIELD work) and hypocritical (hello, who reported to Fury on Coulson and knew the truth about Coulson's resurrection all along?).


    Skye is an interesting case because she's divisive, but that doesn't necessarily mean the number of people who like her is any smaller. The dislikers are just very vocal about it (and Chloe's acting) because of her prominence on the show. She actually won both of the favorite AoS character polls we've had on this site, and one of them was even during Season 1 (when she's widely agreed to have improved since).


    So ultimately, I think all of the original 6, minus Ward because he's EXTREMELY polarizing (more so than Skye), are very popular, but the impression I've gotten is that Coulson, and as of Season 2 Fitz, are the top favorites. Bobbi started off as very well-liked but the Olmost SHIELD fiasco has earned her a lot of scorn, even if she won some points back for the major ass-kicking she landed on Ward + taking a bullet for Hunter in the S2 finale. Hunter, as far as I can tell, was reasonably popular at first and then totally won the audience's heart when he signed on with SHIELD permanently in the end of "One Door Closes", but I don't think he's reached the level of love that the original team gets just yet. And I think Trip was pretty popular because of the massive rage over his death, that took a while to subside, although he wasn't at Coulson or May level obviously.

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  116. I don't even want to think about that. Shudder. Coulson and Skye (who ironically is the non-Ward character I'm least attached to, at least in the original team) seem 100% safe to me, at least for a few good years if the show lasts that long. And Bobbi is reasonably safe because she's such a big deal in the comics and they planned a spin-off for her that could still go forward at some point, although they could always deviate from the comics and from their original plan.


    Fitz, Simmons, May and Hunter all strike me as being in serious danger (although Hunter may be protected if ABC & Marvel revisit the spin-off, since it's supposed to be a "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" thing), and I'm pretty scared because I've gotten so attached to them. It would slay me to lose any of these characters. I also like Mack and especially his friendship with "Turbo", but losing him, while regrettable, wouldn't be quite the same blow.

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  117. Especially when it's a smokescreen for the fact that the people making these arguments are just unhappy with the show for other reasons, like, say, not writing their favorite character in the exact way they thought it should've been written. Ahem.

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  118. It's been so long since we've seen Mack and Turbo playing on the Xbox, I hope they get a chance to do that again in S3! :)

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  119. You were pretty thorough in your analysis, I have little to add. Fitz and Skye are my favorite characters on the show though I adore Bobbi too (even if that too as fizzled with the Olmost Shield storyline). If I have to pick one, Fitz it is, I just don't think you can beat him at this point, and yeah probably that's not only with me but also with the fandom in general.

    I personally really like all characters here though; Mack is the only one I don't particularly care for, but it is not dislike, it's more like not caring (and I had the same thing with Tripp actually). I also like Ward very much as a character - obviously as a person he is garbage, but as a character I find him very much interesting and complex and I love to watch him. And I think Brett Dalton does an amazing, criminally underrated job with him.

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  120. or making it impossible for their favorite ship to actually happen.

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  121. Of course the show is going to kill characters who just happened to be played by POC because they actually cast actors/actresses of color in the first place. Off the top of my head I can think of four characters that underwent a race lift from their comic book counterpart: Mack, Skye/Daisy, Daisy's mother, and Agent 33. I'm sure there's more. I think the better counter to people who make that point is the fact the show has Maurissa Tancharoen as a show runner. The show was also has several directors of color. In front of the screen is important but behind-the-scenes is even more important.

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  122. I really think the problem with Ward's storyline in 2B was quality, not quantity, of screentime. The writers didn't want to fully commit to anything with his character yet, but the longer they played the ambiguity game (he's still doing bad stuff... no, he wants to be redeemed... no, he's doing bad stuff again) the more out-of-place and useless Ward felt to much of the audience. Now that the character's place in the show is clearly defined, while not everyone is pleased with the role he's been given, at least he clearly HAS one and isn't floating around with seemingly no purpose.

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  123. A part of me is secretly hoping that this means that Mack/Fitz could actually happen someday or at the very least Mack becomes our first acknowledged LGTB character in the MCU.

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  124. Well I hope that no one is going to die (which Inknow it's impossible) especially Ward because Brett is such a good actor.

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  125. I hear ya. As a gay man especially, I really think that 7 years in, the lack of same-sex couples and even LGBT characters in the MCU is beginning to grate. And Mack would be such a non-stereotypical gay guy, being about as tough and manly as they get, that it would be great.


    Since it's been established that Fitz digs Simmons, though, a FitzMack pairing would require AoS to not only be willing to do same-sex romance, but venture somewhere few shows ever do: the acknowledgment that bisexual men DO exist! *gasp*

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  126. Ahhh those were the good times :) Just the boys hanging out and Mack helping out Fitz with his brain damage in the process before he sided with OlmostSHIELD. We definitely need more of that in S3!

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  127. That's the thing that makes the radical among shippers the most annoying to me: they think the entire show should accommodate their ship and bend over backwards to make it happen. The level-headed among shippers (and I'm happy to say I've seen quite a few on SpoilerTV, even if they aren't as vocal...) acknowledge when the show goes a direction that makes their ship invalid and illogical, and no longer ask for it to happen in canon when it's clear it would be completely out of place. But the "all or nothing" shippers completely lack perspective; to them, the ship is everything and the rest of the show (like the Hydra!Ward twist that is widely agreed to have elevated AoS into a far better show) is just set dressing.

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  128. Now I personally am 90% sure that Fitz is bi thanks to most of the examples on this page: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/HoYay/AgentsOfSHIELD. When I write him in fanfiction I always write him as bi even if I'm planning to put him with Simmons in my story. However do I think they will actually do this? No. But the show has always surprised me. I want to be surprised.

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  129. Exactly. As I said, the writers killed off so many POC this season because it's important to the storyline, not because they're racist and for the hell of it. SHIELD is one of the most diversified shows to ever grace our television screens and they certainly won't be stopping any time soon. At this point, I trust them enough that they know how to develop every character from every ethnic background.

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  130. If the ambiguity of the character's intentions or his role in the show had continued into season 3, that would have been a bit much for me.

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  131. My philosophy is shipping is for fanfiction. There's just something you can't do in the actual show. If I have a craving for a love story with my favorite characters, I will go create one.

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  132. I wonder if the recurring cast will be smaller in S3, because S2 had so many recurring characters with Mack, Whitehall, Bakshi, Raina, Cal, Kara, Gordon, Jiaying, Lincoln, Gonzales, Weaver... plus Trip in 2A. Granted, some of those didn't have their own plots or a lot of screentime and were more plot devices than characters, and other than Lincoln and Mack, they're all gone (well, Weaver is a really minor character who won't take up space even if she's back). I just hope they take into account the significant increase in the size of the main cast - from 6 to 10 in two years - and don't add too many recurring characters who would need their own screen time to develop.

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  133. Hear, hear!! Though FitzSimmons is my everything, the show acknowledging Fitz as bisexual would certainly be a breakthrough in network television. And back me up here, I know that they acknowledged Victoria Hand as gay in the comics but did they ever do that on SHIELD? I can't remember.

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  134. I agree about which characters are safe. Coulson is really the show's anchor and the main tie to the movies, since the whole show was spun-off from The Avengers to be about HIS resurrection. I think killing him off would be a death blow to the show. And while I may not be a big fan of their major focus on Skye, it's a fact - they regard her as one of the two most important characters and have spent so much time on her story, I just don't see her getting the axe any time soon.


    Not as safe as those two but still pretty safe is Bobbi, because of both her comic book prominence and the fact that the spin-off isn't completely buried yet - they clearly have long-term plans for the character.


    Hunter and Mack are far more minor characters than Bobbi in the comics, so I think they, along with Fitz, Simmons and May, are totally fair game to the writers. Which terrifies me, LOL.

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  135. No, but in their defense it was something that just didn't have a place to come up. I was kind of hoping that there would be a line about notifying her girlfriend/wife about her death last season and it just never happened. The actress herself said that she considered the character to be gay and that she played the character. Actually I think the reason why they are not confirming that is because of the possibility of being eviscerated for killing off a LGTB character, which is happening anyway.

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  136. I think it was stupid to try and be ambiguous in the first place. The man shot Hand IN THE FACE (and dropped FitzSimmons in the ocean, literally the biggest desert in the world, and actually shot at Coulson and Sky as they were fleeing him on the Bus by driving off the plane in Lola) for crying out loud. How more definitive do you need to get? It's never been grey for me when it came to Ward. It's always been black since we saw him turn on the team (his supposed friends) and SHIELD throughout the last episodes of season 1.

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  137. It's weird. Hand had a girlfriend named Isabelle - a fellow SHIELD agent - in one issue of the comics, so when an agent named Isabelle Hartley was going to appear on the show, everyone asked if that's supposed to be her. The show didn't address this and then killed Hartley off after one episode. And when Maurissa Tancharoen was asked about why they didn't acknowledge Hartley as Hand's girlfriend, her response (which didn't win any points with me) was "Then we'd be known as the writers who killed off TWO lesbians."

    I do think there was a bit of a nod to Hand and Hartley being an item in "One Door Closes", though: in one of the flashbacks to the day SHIELD fell, Hartley says "I talked to Vic, she's gonna hold the Hub." A pretty random line unless it was a reference to their relationship, but only people familiar with it would catch the reference. I do wish they would've said something explicit, though - you can't seriously tell me they're afraid of backlash from conservative viewers in this day and age, and on the same network that aired groundbreaking gay male sex scenes this season (in a show that became one of their biggest hits).

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  138. Okay yeah I was pretty positive about it but I just had to ask someone to make sure I was right. I too was hoping for some kind of mention of her girlfriend/wife but alas, her life was cut too short so we'll never know :( It would have been awesome to see a badass, no nonsense gay SHIELD agent just ruling everyone but it never happened. Damn you Ward!!! And I agree with you, the writers would get so much backlash if they acknowledged her as gay but then kill her off just a couple eps later. Sad but true.

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  139. I think it was more along the lines of backlash from the LGBT community, not the conservatives. Are there any badass gay/bisexual female characters on network television? Root and Shaw from POI are the only ones I can think of.

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  140. I think Ward is a very interesting and complex antagonist, too. And yes, Brett is very good. I openly admit that a lot of my vocal negativity towards his character was actually misplaced anger at some Ward/Skyeward fans who are really ridiculous about some things. It's often made me fear that the show would go the fanservice route that is never, ever a good thing and redeem Ward in a quick unbelievable way so that Skyeward could happen. I'm not saying a redemption for Ward is absolutely impossible, but it's something that would take YEARS of very dedicated, high-quality storytelling to show him truly changing as a person. It's definitely not something that should be done for the sake of a ship. And in my opinion, even if he was eventually able to find redemption, it should be elsewhere and not with SHIELD/Skye, he's burned that bridge completely and it wouldn't be realistic for these people to ever accept him again.

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  141. I'll agree that the other team members' views on Ward were set at that point. I can also understand why some of the fans saw him as irredemable. What I liked was not knowing what Ward was going to do next because he didn't see himself as a villain, even when he was. For 2a at least, he thought, or at least had convinced himself that he was helping the team. That twisted way of thinking made him interesting, to me at least. And yes, he's 100% a villain now, but I feel like season 2 fleshed him out more as a character, so he's not just evil for the sake of evil like Whitehall. Anyway, to each their own.

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  142. I still want to believe that the Hand Ward killed was a Life Model Decoy. C'mon, Victoria Hand was a ruthless and cold-hearted person, but she sure as hell wasn't stupid. Ordering Garrett, the only Hydra agent in SHIELD captivity, to be killed immediately instead of at least trying to interrogate him? If Ward had killed Garrett as ordered, how much useful intel about Hydra would've gone to waste? Also, why would she order an agent to shoot his former S.O.? That was just asking for trouble, even if Ward hadn't been a Hydra mole, that could've pushed him to help Garrett.


    So I've decided that Hand was actually giving Ward a loyalty test by agreeing to have him on that plane, sent an LMD of herself and told Ward to shoot Garrett to see if he was actually Hydra. She's been in hiding ever since, running some sort of clandestine operation against Hydra (instead of being useless like Olmost SHIELD). That's my theory and I'm sticking to it! :)


    P.S. Although you know that if I'm right, Stand With Ward fans will come in droves saying "See, Ward didn't kill her!", as if he could've known he was shooting an LMD... sigh.

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  143. he was probably my least favorite character through the hole season (which doesn't mean i didn't like him, that's one of my favorites things about this show i like every character), but i think that he was BY FAR the MVP of the season finale, if he can stay in season 3 as cool as he was in the SF, then this is awesome news

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  144. I just don't feel FitzSimmons romantically (they're like Siamese twins to me) but I respect those that do. I don't mind if they get together on the show as long as it's written well. That being said, we all know that in a Whedon show (even if it's not the most famous Whedon), the chances of a happy long-term couple are about the same as of Melinda May switching to an all-pink wardrobe.

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  145. You know, I was thinking about the possibility that the Victoria Hand that was on the plane was actually an LMD all along because I did find it odd that she wanted to kill Garrett right then and there instead of taking him to the Fridge and interrogating him and try to get intel about Hydra's plan as much as possible. But as you said, we would be hearing about it nonstop from the SSW fans from here to kingdom come defending Ward so I think it's just best that we know that she's dead. For our sake. I do love your theory though! Running everything behind the scenes in an attempt to take down Hydra once and for all. And once she's done that, she'll come out from the dark and reveal herself as the badass SHIELD agent she always was. Fooling everyone.

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  146. It would actually be the exact same thing that Nick Fury did!


    I do realize that if they bring too many characters back from the dead, the whole concept of death would lose its impact and get silly. I always say shows should be careful with that. But damn, I want a badass gay woman being a total HBIC on this show. And she's a grey and morally ambiguous character, because she's on the good side but her methods are totally ruthless and can be be self-defeating to that end (hell, she tried to execute Coulson and his entire team when she thought he was the Clairvoyant).

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  147. Like Misscar said, though, looks like there's still backlash because enough people are aware that Hand and Hartley are gay in the source material. Oh well, I guess it was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for the show unless they kept at least one of these characters around longer.


    I'm not familiar with too many badass gay/bi characters, but Nolan from the just-concluded Revenge was great. Not badass as in a physical fighter, but he had seriously mad computer hacking skillz on top of being the biggest fan favorite on the show and an important character. And he was a bi male character which, as I've noted, is extremely rare (although there was no acknowledgment of his bisexuality in Seasons 3-4 and all of his partners were male).

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  148. I don't think her wanting to kill Garrett right there is as much odd as it is her asking the apprentice of her enemy to kill him without at least setting up a few safeguards in case said apprentice was Hydra too. Likewise, Koenig should've stuck to one simple question to Ward in his interrogation instead of changing it every single time until Ward could answer it with a half-truth.

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  149. Yeah, I hear you. I think a lot of people are like you and misdirect the hate towards the character to what happens with the fandom. I don't think that has ever happened to me as far as I remember and so far I've really been able to appreciate the character. Maybe because I wasn't worried about the shipping thing I wasn't actively rooting for things to go one way or the other with him (in terms of going full dark or to find redemption) I was able to appreciate his journey in a real nice, impartial perspective. And it was cool because there were quite a few moments in which I really wouldn't know which way he would go.

    Glad you agree with me on Brett though!

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  150. Oh that interrogation scene with all the half-truths from Grant made me so mad. Seriously, Koenig changing every question after he would clearly give half-truths every time was ridiculous. Though there was no hope of him ever getting caught anyway because of that piece of metal that he would stick in his finger to mess with the computer.

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  151. It's funny you should mention him sticking that piece of metal under his nail, because it was the very same trick he used against Bobbi in order to torture her. When I saw that in the finale it made me wonder if it's merely 101 spy tricks or if it has a deeper meaning to it, like that's what Christian meant by Mrs. Ward "torturing" him and Grant. It'd be very much Grant Ward to throw a hissy fit about his family only to channel them in actions like this.

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  152. May is someone i'm particularly worried because of her role on the team. She was always the badass especialist and now they have Bobbi with the same role and Skye the super agent. Not that the show can't have another badass agent, but when you are considering what character to kill this could be important factor and Ward currently bad blood toward her is bothering me. Simmons is another character i worry a lot. I think they would only kill Fitz if the actor doesn't want to continue on the show because eveybody loves him too much. I don't want to see anyone go but i'm more attached to the main original 5 (less Ward) so Hunter, Mack, Lincoln, Ward losses would be less painfull for me.

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  153. That's great. I thought he made a great addition to the team and he really helped bring Fitz back

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  154. ^^^ This, pretty much. Mack was unimpressive the whole season, but he absolutely RULED in the finale, he was an amazing badass, if they can keep him that interesting next season he's a more than welcome addition!

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  155. Well, the only same sex couple i ship in the MCU is Skye/Simmons. The chemistry is amazing and Chloe and Elizabeth are 100% on board! :)

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  156. I think Simmons is a lot bi! I think it would be very much easier to do this with Simmons, especiall when you remember Willow's history in BtVs.

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  157. ol, i feel the same. The are like siblings..(Chloe also said this on a interview hahaha), but yeah, it would be too weird and uncomfortable..honestly it's better that they just stay as good friends. Honestly, i think it was too wierd the way they did with them in the Season finale..Simmons never showed any hint about feeling something romantic about him, and tbh she had heart eyes for Skye all season! I mean, come on...

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  158. lI think Lincoln's history will be very much linked to the Secret Warriors, but yeah, i think the cast is going to big too..They already had problems with Season 2 with so much people..this worries me, bu i do hope for the best!

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  159. Skye, Simmons, Coulson and May are my favorites! It would be horrible if any of them dies.

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  160. I'm okay with Mack now. He was very annoying, especially about Skye's powers, but now he is cool again..and i loved the dynamic with him and Skye in the finale..so i guess this is good news! :)

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  161. Wow, the cast is expanding (which I'm really happy about). We now have Nick, Adrianne, Luke and now Henry. Love this show and I'm sure Henry will be another great addition to the cast.

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  162. Phew, about time! Happy for Simmons, he deserves it!

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  163. Which characters from the show do you think have the best chance to wind up in the movies?

    I'd vote:

    Mockingbird - I can see her replacing Black Widow on the new Avengers, cause eventually Scarlett is doing to be done with these movies.

    Skye - I can see her being in the Inhumans movie or in a movie leading up to it.

    Coulson - cause it's Coulson;)

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  164. I've been hoping for this for a while so YAY!

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  165. It still didn't make him a good guy. Whatever his twisted feelings for Skye, he still killed some agents sent by his brother and he burnt his whole family, killing them in their home and framing the same brother he killed. If people want to think Ward isn't bad, fine but every one of his action since 1x17 says otherwise. His obsession with Skye doesn't count as a positive.

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  166. I'm not saying he's a good guy, in fact I'd say he's morally reprehensible. I'm saying the way he thinks and the reason he thinks that way are interesting. Most villains are just straight up sociopaths, evil for the sake of being evil, but Ward's behavior can be tied to real emotions and motivations. He basically shows how a normal person can be pushed into becoming a monster. The end result might be similar, (evil) but I find Ward to be a more original, in-depth look at a villain's psyche. Yes he's a villain. He's also, imo an amazing and fascinating character.


    I'd also argue that nearly everyone (especially fictional characters) are capable of redemption. Forgiveness is another matter. A lot of the things that Ward has done are unforgivable. It doesn't mean that he can't grow and evolve to the point where he starts to do good things. It would take a while and it's certainly not likely, don't get me wrong, but it is possible.

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  167. You're right about May, unfortunately. Fitz and Simmons are more difficult to replace because of their unique skill sets. But with Bobbi around and Skye both having awesome powers and becoming so adept at combat (I still think they turned her into a top-notch fighter too quickly, that one-shot fight scene had her take down like 9 Hydra agents by herself - being a superheroine should've been enough for now), May isn't as necessary.


    About Fitz, I think the whole being incredibly popular thing is a double-edged sword... sometimes shows WANT to gut you by killing off your main favorites. I can think of cases where the show wouldn't dare to do that (like Felicity on Arrow), but with AoS being Whedon-influenced I can't be sure.

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  168. I liked Mack in 2A too, the FitzMack stuff was sweet. One review nicely described him as the "stay-at-home dad" of the team, he had this wise and laid-back quality that I quite enjoyed. However, the Olmost SHIELD stuff made him extremely unlikable, especially considering that Bobbi at least seemed to have doubts whereas he was dead-set on their (bizarre) course of action being right and Coulson being wrong.


    Thankfully, he made a brilliant comeback in the season finale. He was seriously the boss there and I can only hope this continues in S3.

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  169. I agree with you except that I wouldn't say most villains are different from Ward and straight-up sociopaths. It seems to me that the tragic backstory that shaped the villain is actually much more common in TV* these days than the straight-up, "evil because I want to be evil" monster like Daniel Whitehall. Straight off the bat, I can think of so many villains who probably wouldn't have become who they are if it wasn't the horrors in their pasts, such as the oft-mentioned Fisk, Amanda (Nikita), Katherine (The Vampire Diaries), Dottie (Agent Carter) or Regina and Rumpelstiltskin (Once Upon a Time).


    * I say TV because with a lot more time to develop the villains, giving them complex backstories - usually ones that make them sympathetic and inform their actions - is much more possible. Movies have to clock in at around 2 hours, so there isn't much time to develop the bad guy beyond "I want to take over the world, mwahahaha". I also think movies, because of the huge financial investment and the broad audience they're targeted at, play it safer than TV, in a lot of ways. One of them is that 95% of the leads on movies are still white men, whereas TV is a lot more progressive in terms of diversity. Another is the that hero has to be purely heroic and the villain purely villainous.

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  170. Regarding that first Skye point, I just want to say that the writers walking a difficult tight rope is the perfect way to put it. You had a LOT of fans complaining, "Why is Skye whining about her powers instead of kicking ass?" approximately 5 seconds after she got them. Not to mention the endless bashing of AoS since Day 1 (compared of course to those Emmy-worthy masterpieces, Arrow and The Flash) about the lack of costumed superheroes. The writers couldn't well have afforded to allocate *too* much time to Skye learning control, thereby delaying the point at which she would step out and start to use them in awesome combat scenes.


    Personally, I think they found a happy medium where we saw Skye struggling with her powers for a while, but soon enough we also got to enjoy them in action. The writers were in a bit of "can't win" situation here (have her gain control too fast and it's unrealistic, have her struggle for too long and it's boring/we want cool superpowers) and they handled it about as well as they could have.

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  171. If anyone shows up in the movies, it'll be one of these three, I agree. Skye and Bobbi for their prominence in the comics (both Avengers with Daisy Johnson having even been the Director of SHIELD), Skye for her powers which are going to be a hell of a lot more useful against Thanos than the likes of Black Widow and Hawkeye, and Coulson because he CAME from the movies and they can't leave the Avengers thinking he's dead a loose end forever.


    I would love to see any of the others in a movie, but I really don't see it happening.

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  172. Yeah, it was sweet, but it just wasn't enough for me to want more of him, it was really his role in the finale that sold me on the character. Hope to see more of THAT Mack.

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  173. By what i see on the AOS fandom around social media, sites nd forums Fitz is the most loved. He might not be your most loved one, but he is always up there on the list. He is like a puppy. This show has 6 main characters which death would really affect audience. Even Ward because he has his loyal fan base. I could be wrong, but i think if they can avoid killing Fitz they will. Its not like the show is having amazing ratings so the better avoid killing those characters as long as they can.

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  174. I know Fitz is the most beloved character. (In Season 2 he became my own favorite, too.) I'm just saying that sometimes, that doesn't protect you from being killed off because some writers like to be mean to the audience with heartbreaking deaths. But I hope that doesn't happen here and like you said, it probably wouldn't do the show any good in terms of ratings and success. I think it would be a bad move plot-wise as well because Fitz is the only one with his engineering/tech skills. If they introduce someone else to replace him and then kill him off, that character will be completely resented by the audience.

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  175. That's a fair point. However, I'd still argue that with Ward they do a better job of tying in the specifics of his past trauma to his present day characterization, not to justify his actions, but to make him a more fleshed out character.


    I only saw one season of Nikita and two of OUAT, so I can't really comment on those characters, except to say that the all over the place writing for Regina is one of the reasons I quit. However, with the exception of Fisk, who is clearly just an older version of that same scared kid we saw in flashbacks (and is definitely up there in terms of my favorite villains) I feel like a lot of writers shoehorn in tragic backstories as part of a formulaic approach, but still give us characters that are straight up sociopaths.

    Dottie, who I still loved as a character, certainly had a reason for acting like she did, but there was no emotional through-line. We know she was abused and brainwashed as a kid, but by the time she's interacting with Peggy she's so far gone we can no longer see the good, normal person she might have been, She's still alive last I checked, so this could change and I hope it does. Agent Carter only had eight episodes so, like with movies (and by the way I entirely agree that movies are generally more broad and simple than TV, or at least television has a greater capacity for in-depth storytelling) it wasn't like there was a lot of time to develop her character.

    Katherine had more screen time and was fleshed out a little more, but at the same time she's hundreds of years old so there are a lot of gaps in her journey. Also, I was left with the impression that at her core was a manipulative and vindictive person, certainly a great character, but not especially layered. However it's been years since I've seen the vampire diaries so I may not be the best judge.

    Another example I'll give is Malcolm Merlyn. A great character in Arrow season one imo. A simple, campy, slightly over the top comic book villain with just enough of a motivation to make it work. (That scene where he plays that voicemail of his wife to Tommy is hard to get through.) However in season three, once they start using that motivation in an attempt to make him more dynamic, give him something close to a redemption arc, it starts to feel like they're milking a dead cow. Yes his wife's death made him go insane, but the writers don't really go deeper than that. He suffered a trauma, now he's crazy and evil. That's it. The flashbacks don't really show us anything new. If anything, they show just how weak that motivation for his characterization is.

    With Ward, we can see more of his journey; how he went from that kid at the well to who he is now. There's more of a linear progression. Each step he takes closer to villainy has a clear motivation. It's not just; He was abused as a kid so now he's evil. It's more complicated than that. We get insight into how he was abused, how Garrett manipulated him, how he really felt about the team, and later betraying them, and it has all contributed to who he is now. They've all affected him in more ways than simply making him evil. Though again, just to be absolutely clear so no one else thinks I'm excusing his actions, he is a villain. But for me he's up there with Spike from Buffy and Jaime Lannister from game of thrones. They're evil, but they're also characters. And their pasts have shaped them in more ways than just making them villains.



    I'd encourage anyone who hasn't seen it to check out a show called Farscape. The main villain, Scorpius, is terrifying but also arguably the most nuanced character on the show, or any show really. His dynamic with the protagonist is incredible, and it shows how much circumstance and perspective can influence our views of good and evil.

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  176. I wouldn't say extremely unlikable, but yeah, this is pretty much my take on Mack as well. I liked what the writers were trying to do when he explained why he was quitting to Coulson. It wasn't that he didn't like him or didn't respect him, he just didn't trust him in such a powerful position because of the alien blood in his system (an understandable reaction to some of Coulson's behavior in 2A, and then Mack's own experience at the kree temple.)


    I don't know that Mack was necessarily less conflicted than Bobbi about what they were doing, but the show spent more time and focus on Bobbi, kept her closer to the action and gave her more information to process and react to. While with Mack we have that great quitting speech, and no reason to think that isn't his take on things. We just don't have a lot of evidence to back it up until the finale, where we finally get a good look at who Mack really is.

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  177. Well, he did knock Hunter out, kidnap him and tie him up, which pushes the limit of "justifying your actions in the name of ideology" a bit too far (I still think Hunter got over it WAY too easily).


    And he might've had doubts about what they were doing, but then, any number of things can happen off-screen and we can only theorize about them. From what was shown to us, his conviction about Olmost SHIELD was pretty strong. Which, to me and many others, put him in the same problematic category as Gonzales and the rest of that "board" - you think Coulson is an unfit leader, okay, but prioritizing his removal over battling the actual threats to the world like Hydra, really?

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  178. I don't know. Hunter's no saint. He did shoot May, Skye and Trip in the middle of an op after all. I think lying to your friends and occasionally knocking them out comes a little more with the territory when you're a mercenary/secret agent. It's still not cool, but maybe a little more forgivable? I think Hunter may have actually said that he would have done the same thing in Mack's shoes, so I buy him forgiving Mack.

    But the rest I can't really argue against. Mack did express doubts about what they were doing when he was sparring with Bobbi, but I agree that's not really enough. He just didn't get enough screen time for us to fully understand his motives. I think the finale filled in some blanks about who he was, which helps, but why he was so staunchly team Olmost remains open to speculation for the most part. We have enough info to make educated guesses, which isn't ideal, but I'll take it.

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  179. Admittedly Joss Whedon had to stretch a few things to justify keeping Spike around, but that wasn't so much a problem with the character as it was a question of "Why the hell hasn't Buffy staked him yet?" In any case, I'm glad she didn't.


    It's hard to compare Spike to Ward because there's the 'no soul' element with vampires in the buffyverse. Spike had no soul, so his reasons for being evil are about as basic as you can get. They do some stuff with it in the later seasons but it's complicated and divisive and ultimately had little to do with why I liked the character.


    I found his personality outside of being evil to be layered and incredibly dynamic. He could go from terrifyingly formidable to snarky and hilarious, and often he could just be sad and pathetic. It all fit into who he was, but none of these aspects ever overshadowed the others for long. And while I didn't particularly enjoy Spuffy, soul or no soul, you could occasionally spot something genuinely sweet in the way Spike cared for Buffy and Drusilla. Was his take on romance twisted by his lack of a soul? Definitely. But at his core, Spike was a romantic, and a deeply insecure one. (Crap. I feel like I'm describing Edward now which is about the furthest thing from what I'm trying to say.) Insecure in a relatable way, not a brooding, "I'm so tortured and I love you, but I'll only hurt you, but we belong together," kind of way.


    The season 5 episode 'Fool for Love' sums it up better than I can if you've got an hour to kill.


    But yeah, you're pretty spot on with Loki. He's great for a movie villain, charismatic and entertaining, but he hasn't had as much time to develop as Ward or Fisk.

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  180. I'm not claiming Hunter is a saint, and to be frank I thought Coulson's team should've been a little more wary around him in the beginning after he went rogue on that op and ICEd his entire team (although May did shoot him as payback and continued to dislike him for a while). I still feel like actual abduction is a step further from that, though - there must have been a moment or two while chained up there where Hunter didn't even know if Mack was going to let him live, which is pretty messed up.


    That being said, considering the long history of Bobbi breaking Hunter's heart in the name of spy business and being granted forgiveness, I guess Hunter has a general inclination to take those kinds of things in stride. Probably a helpful attitude in their line of work.

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  181. Spike is just one of the first examples of the Draco in Leather Pants trope:


    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DracoInLeatherPants


    It just happened that Joss eventually padered to Spuffy fans and made the couple happen, however convoluted it may have been. Worse, Spike's turn from villain to bad boy anti-hero had everlasting consequences outside of Buffy - one or two writers from Once Upon a Time have stated they think of Spike when writing about Captain Hook.

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  182. Yay Mack!!!

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