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Supernatural – Season 10 Episode 21 – The Gripe Review

May 10, 2015

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Hello SPN fans and welcome to the I-can’t-believe-that-just-happened Gripe Review.

Of course I’m talking about Charlie. After writing a full review about how much of a pet-character and author avatar she was, and making speculations about how they might make her a regular next season, this episode came out of nowhere. As you may know, I try to remain spoiler free when watching Supernatural, partly so that my judgment doesn’t get clouded before I actually watch an episode. Because of this I had no warning this was supposed to happen, and right up to the last scene was expecting a different outcome.

Though I admit I breathed a sigh of relief after they showed Charlie’s body - I was convinced she would be kidnapped and the last episodes of the season would be spent on her rescue – by no means did I consider the ending satisfactory. In fact it was just one more pointless plot twist added to the pile of random nonsense that made up this episode. I may have gotten excited if Charlie’s death had served a purpose and improved the nonexistent main storyline of the season. But the only fallout I could think coming from it is Dean getting angrier and killing more bad guys (which I’m sure will be painted as him deteriorating beyond repair) and Sam becoming the guilt pony. On top of it, considering how ridiculously contrived and entirely avoidable Charlie’s death was, it should be obvious why I can’t see any light at the end of this insane, bloody tunnel.


Well, maybe a tiny light. At least for those of us who could see through her hero-to-everyone persona and recognize the Mary Sue behind it, it means she won’t come back next season in a larger capacity and as a permanent staple. I have heard that producer Jim Michaels has claimed no one ever dies permanently on Supernatural. Still the promos give me hope that, even if they decide to bring her back, it would be in a much smaller scope, most likely as a ghost or apparition. Even if she came back as the smartest, most powerful, most awe-inspiring ghost of all time she won’t be staying for too long, won't be toting her Surface tablet, and definitely won't get praised as “the smartest person in the room." To be all that one needs a pulse, and my guess is she permanently lost hers.

Even after so much talk about Charlie my biggest gripe for this episode isn't even her, but the writers' new pet project, the completely ludicrous, prematurely hatched threat of the Stynes.


#1 – Who are the Stynes again?


This question was asked repeatedly by a poster in a forum episode discussion thread, even though we were told about the Stynes in episode 19 where they hunted Charlie for a book that gave them superpowers.

Mild interest was all I felt for the Stynes as I watched that episode. I listened to their background story for why they were after the book and didn't think much of it beyond an obligatory obstacle in achieving the episode's ultimate goal. They were there to lend tension to an otherwise slow plot about three people holed up in a room trying to decipher a piece of ancient text. No way did I think of them as a huge conglomerate power structure that would require the Winchesters to step in and stop them. Why should I when there wasn't even a hint about them in the entire decade of the show? Even the Leviathans had a better build up and they literally sprang out of nowhere.

Except, in this episode, Buckner and Ross-Leming took the idea and spun it into a behemothic Big Bad. Suddenly we find out the Stynes were instrumental in aiding Hitler. I thought the Thule Society covered that, according to 8x13. Guess we stumbled on yet another example of Supernatural rewriting its own history.


But it goes further than that. The captive Styne paints a picture that makes the family look like the Freemasons, the Koch brothers and Al-Qaeda all wrapped in one. I couldn't make out everything he said but from what I heard he was name-dropping such important events as 911, the economic crash, and the Arab Spring, hanging them from a string which had his family name attached to it.

I hesitate to bring up fanfiction again, but yet another mark of amateur writers dwelling in that medium is to connect their characters to milestone incidents and important personalities just to give them the weight and value their stories fail to provide. There would be a guy for example who has done absolutely nothing important in the plot, yet we should respect him because he was single-handedly responsible for bringing down the Soviet Union.

I'm Not saying one shouldn't tie their fictional characters to real events. What I'm saying is if you do, or plan to expand them to be global shadow governments, you might want to spend a little time building them up in your narrative first and not spring them on the viewers in the final few episodes like mad conspiracy theorists talking about the Illuminati. Trust me, if you do that, I might believe you, but about as much as I believe those funny tin-hatters.

#2 – Forget who they are, why are the Stynes so uninteresting?


Even if I was willing to bend logic and history in order to accept the Stynes as the Death Star overlords they claim to be, the presentation disappoints. We see a glimpse of the family patriarch and his offspring in one scene and it looks like a bad audition for a Dixie Godfather remake. They seem to be competing for who gets away with a stronger twang. The acting is so unconvincing and over-the-top all it needs is a couple of handle bar mustaches and boiler hats. Worse, all the sons and nephews of the guy look like they came out of the same assembly line, which could be intentionally hinting at in-breading, or a goofy idea by the casting director who perhaps thought he was casting for a Levi's commercial.

Bottom line is, for the amount of danger and importance this episode placed on this family I found out very little about them and what I found out didn't impress me. I don't know why Carver decided to try Leviathans 2.0 when the idea failed the first time. Sadly the farther the show goes the more suspicious I get that these writers live in a vacuum and know nothing about each others' scripts from last week, let alone scripts from previous seasons.

#3 – There isn’t a part of this that doesn’t reek.


I can't believe I'm agreeing with Charlie here, but Sam's idea of putting Charlie and Rowena in the same room made absolutely no sense, which means the writers' whole premise for this episode was a washout. Why did the two of them have to be in one place when it was obvious neither would voluntarily share information with the other? If they were estranged sisters and this was Sam's ploy to bring them together I might have understood. But Rowena was a prisoner. He was lucky she didn't turn Charlie into a toad the first chance she got, restricted powers or not. At the very least she could have used her to execute an escape plan, which I think is what she did. Putting a defenseless civilian in the same room as Rowena and expecting them to work together was the Guinness World Record equivalent of stupid moves.

The scenario would have been at least amusing if they had infused it with funny, clever dialogue. Sadly we only hear them talk to each other once, and it's the tired you're-not-so-different-from-me rant we've heard a million times from the villains on the show. It also would have helped if they actually showed how being together helped solving the case, but the only thing we saw was Rowena going about her own ancient rituals and Charlie doing the exact same thing she did last time, running a software for image comparisons. It even looked like she solved the mystery on her own at the end, making me question the logic behind bringing her and Rowena together other than what I wrote down in gripe #5.

#4 – I’ve had it with the mother&@#$ Surface on this mother&@#$ show.


I have no problem with product placement. I just consider it as part of the universe and move on. Even though every character driving a Ford one season, then simultaneously switching to BMWs in the next is laughably improbable, it's not something I would dwell on.

...except when it clashed with plot and character profiles. The biggest offender on Supernatural (on current TV really) is Microsoft's Surface tablet. Previously we saw Charlie use it to hack into a 1940's vacuum tube computer, something that was implausible even if she'd used a custom made Linux machine with exponential processing powers.

This episode it (pardon the pun) surfaced again. Charlie the top notch hacker apparently uses nothing but the Microsoft tablet for her above-the-cut, super smart hactivities. And just in case you tried to justify it by assuming she replaced the operating system with a custom-coded, dual-boot, dos based OS they make a point of showing her open the cheerful Windows 8 screen, on app mode no less, and scroll happily away.


This is silly. It's also an insult to my intelligence as someone who knows a thing or two about computers and hacking. To show a hacker use a device like the Surface and an operating system like Windows 8 is like having an award winning National Geographic photographer pull up an Instax to take photos. It tells me the show runner either doesn't know anything about professional photography or is such a slave to corporate money he is willing to sacrifice plot/character integrity for a little on the side.

#5 – All the absurd contrivances leading to Charlie’s death (Or how everyone is stupid and Cas has no powers.)

Here is why I don't care about Charlie's death one way or another. It's something I call the Divergent Stratagem. Like in the plot of the last book of that series, where everything artificially led the main character to a certain fate, the plot of this episode is ridiculously contrived to have Charlie die in the end. This means the entrapment of all characters in decisions that make no sense, nor are in character for them, for the sole purpose of reaching that particular conclusion.


Here's how it goes down: Sam insists Rowena and Charlie work together instead of working as an intermediary between them. Dean chains a human in a devil's trap by one hand, leaving the other hand free so he could escape. He leaves the room to find Sam but forgets to lock the door, only to come back and find the human vaporized into thin air. Castiel leaves Charlie alone who also vaporizes and shows up at an isolated motel where no one could reach her in time. She also tells no one about her whereabouts, perhaps because she gets hit over the head and forgets they are her bodyguards not her jailers.

The Stynes, who previously were tracking Charlie down through her possession of the book, and lost her after she dropped it, are now suddenly able to find her. Castiel on the other hand, who is a fully powered angel, has no clue where she is. When the Winchesters finally find her it's because she calls them, when it's already too late and the villain is at her doorstep. In the only logical piece of dialogue in the entire sequence, Dean tells Charlie to hand over everything she has to the guy and run away, to which she responds by doing the exact opposite. Even though the data was already uploaded and in the hands of the Winchesters, and there was nothing of value on her tablet except that one piece of information about how to remove the MoC, she decides to destroy it. Then she takes out a knife and stands there facing her killer like a trapped chicken.


In a previous episode we saw Charlie take on two of the Stynes - one armed with a gun - and get away with a minor gunshot wound. This time she can't defend herself  against a guy short an arm. It might be because - in a previously stupid move - she ran into the washroom where there are no escape routs. The guy with the bloody stump, who a few scenes ago was chastised for leaving a body behind, kills her and leaves her body behind.

I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say with that many unlikely twists and turns, let alone all the moronic actions performed by previously sane people, this resembles more a farce than the plot of an episode. If this was real life the chances of Charlie dying in this manner would have been less than the probability of her winning the lottery jackpot. She would have sooner fallen through one of the massive plotholes on her way to that motel room than died at the hands of the one armed Styne. And let's not forget, this isn't the first time she died on the show. Last time Castiel brought her back before the Winchesters could suppress a gasp, and he wasn't even at full power because he was using borrowed grace. This time though, for no reason other than Charlie needing to die, he is incapable of resurection.

Edit: I was told it was actually Gadreel who brought Charlie back. It still doesn't change the fact that angels have been show to bring humans back to life even when at half their celestial capacity.

#6 – How is this thing different than that thing last year?


Remember season 9? In the beginning Sam was dying and Dean made a deal with Ezekiel/Gadreel to save him but kept it a secret from Sam. This secret led to a lot of bad things, including the death of an ally and close friend, Kevin. This caused Sam to get angry and Dean to feel guilty.

This season Dean was in trouble and Sam made a deal with Rowena behind Dean's back, then made a load of bad decisions that ultimately led to Charlie's death. Now I'm no psychic but I'm guessing what will follow is Dean getting angry and Sam feeling guilty. I guess the SPN company line is, if it's not broken, repeat until the audience get well and truly sick of it, the repeat some more.

Kudos: This hilarious exchange between Dean and Castiel

Despite the overall let-down of this episode there was one scene that made me laugh out loud. The phone call between Dean and Castiel that Sam was supposed to pick up.


I played this scene over and over just to watch Castiel's face when he said, "This call is pointless." It was a throwback to the old days of confused, awkward Castiel, angel of the Lord on a moped, personal space issues, and "the voice tells me I'm almost out of minutes!" I miss those days and with this skit, Misha reminded me of them. Those were the times when SPN comedy wasn't reliant on bodily functions or slobbering over nuns and college girls, and writing gripe reviews for the show's excellent episodes was close to impossible.

This got a little long so without further talk I leave the stage to you and take my leave. As always, please use the comment section bellow to let me know what you think.

Tessa

tessa-marlene.tumblr.com/
twitter.com/tessa_marlene 

107 comments:

  1. I liked Charlie. I did. But I'm glad that this episode reached a new series low. Hopefully the network will announce a new show runner and a (mostly) new writing staff next week. The choices that these characters made this week were ridiculous.

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  2. I'm one of the apparently few who didn't mind this episode. I accepted it for what it was, yet another filler because let's face it...nothing really happened except pointless character death. That said, I agree with just about everything in your gripe review. I liked Charlie, but she might as well have been the horribly written guest star of the week this time, and I didn't even feel a smidge upset at her death. It takes some pretty bad writing for me not to even care about the death of a character I liked. I'm incredibly tired of the whole 'no one ever is ever really gone on this shoe' motto they've laughingly tried to pass off as a good thing this year. Character deaths are supposed to be powerful, meaningful, and at least in most cases. permanent! Bringing one character back, okay, sure, that's good drama! Knowing that we can expect /every/ character back... That's boring.

    If they're gonna bring a character back, I can name several I'd love to see again. This starts with John Winchester, Adam, Meg (guilty pleasure, that one), Gabriel, Luci, even Kevin. All of these were well developed, and above all, /interesting/ characters.

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  3. I didn't like Charlie and as you can see, even I thought her death was pointless and contrived. Sadly I don't think any change to the staff will happen unless, like the previous staff, they themselves decide to leave. This show is too far off the network's radar for them to care what happens to it. They are too focused on their comic book spin-offs and iZombie.

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  4. Considering how badly they handled bringing Bobby back I don't wish for any of those lovelies you mentioned to come back. They will either turn them evil or into a mockery of themselves. I absolutely agree with you that character deaths should mean something on a show. If a producer himself laughs it off how are we supposed to feel? It pretty much ruins any drama such a plot is supposed to generate.

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  5. Izombie is /really/ good.....
    Wish they could care as much about their veteran shows as they do their new, but I understand that that's just how things are. If they moved some clever writers back to Spn, and dumped the horrible ones, the show still has so much potential. People love Sam, Dean,and Cas! They obviously want more of them

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  6. Last time Castiel brought her back before the Winchesters could
    suppress a gasp, and he wasn't even at full power because he was using
    borrowed grace.
    Actually last time Gadreel posing as Ezekiel brought her back even though he was expending Grace by trying to heal Sam. It's pretty much the same thing, but I don't think Cas has saved Charlie yet.

    On a related note, there is an academic conference on Supernatural being held at DePaul University. Robby Thompson is the keynote speaker. He talked about how he lobbied to not kill Charlie off. He sent memos, set up meetings, came up with alternate situations that would leave the same emotional fallout of Charlie dying without her actually dying. He obviously was turned down. That's not the really interesting part. The really interesting part is that he pitched an episode called Fluff and Fold several times. The idea was the guys doing laundry at a laundromat. As they waited they would flash back to what happened immediately after Dean went to Purgatory. It showed Dean's struggle to survive before he met Benny. It showed Sam SEARCHING FOR DEAN, trying things that led to dead ends, being told by another hunter that it was over and he should let go. Everything that led up to hitting that damned dog. Actually he didn't used damned, he used a word starting with F. Me thinks Robbie is not a happy camper at this moment and may be willing to burn some bridges here.

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  7. That's exactly why I didn't even list bobby, because I really hate how they've handled it. Bobby's death was so powerful and moving. His after death...well, I liked him as a ghost,that was fine with me, but everything after seems like a half-life version of him, as fake as the heaven closet he's in. Seriously, wtf with turning heaven into this fake, lonely, isolated room where you relive sitting around, doing nothing all the time??? Spn makes even Heaven and Hell look like the dullest concepts ever contrived. If season 5 Dean spent time in closet hell getting darts flung at him for a few decades..blog, it doesn't take much to make him go dark side! Him or any of the other soul crushed demons it spits back up.

    So annoying, so frustrating. You're right. Leave those wonderful characters and memories in the past.

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  8. Actually last time Gadreel posing as Ezekiel brought her back even though he was expending Grace by trying to heal Sam. It's pretty much the same thing, but I don't think Cas has saved Charlie yet.Thanks for clarifying that. I put a note about it in the review. Doesn't change anything though, as Castiel also brought Bobby back in Swan Song.


    Wow at all that reveal. I guess Robbie with his Charlie obsession still cares more about the show than the actual show runner. No wonder Edlund left and the rest of them seem to have lost their mojo.

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  9. Wow... I kind of wish they would have done all of that. Might have made for some decent episodes, and made this last one seem less....well, everything in the gripe review above.

    I'd have loved seeing Dean in pre-Benny perg, and Sam searching for Dean earnestly. I sense some major disagreements amongst Spn staff, which could explain a good number of the horrible, disjointed plots and boring, lackluster episodes.

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  10. Remember Dean’s – I went to purgatory, Sam hit a dog. My gripe review would’ve been Everyone acts stupid, Charlie dies. Good thing I’m not writing for SpoilerTV!! You HAD to watch several times and come up with an article.

    I agree with your Gripes. I was disappointed by this episode’s version of the Stynes. I had high hopes for them at first (Jacob). I thought they’d be introduced to us bit by bit over the course of season 11. A mysterious family working in the shadows, powerfully evil, able to mess with worldwide events.

    Instead they’re badly acted Frankenstein idiots adorned with extra hearts and muscles. Hope Dean
    slaughters the lot of them. (Hope he shops for a right-handed shackle too).

    Dean’s confrontation with Sam was the best bit of the whole episode. And I don’t think it was all acting on Jared’s part either. Dean was bloody menacing.



    Here's hoping the final two episodes come through for us long-suffering fans.

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  11. I've heard Robbie's comments about Charlie, but not the pitch for Fluff and Fold. That's really interesting!


    My problem with that is, like a lot of Robbie's scripts, it seems like fan fiction. Bad fan fiction. The Purgatory storyline was back in S8, like the MoC was messed up earlier this season (partly by Robbie's dumb script for the 200th). The solution isn't go go back and try to patch it up, the solution is to write better story arcs going forward. Fer Chrissakes, they've got Misha Collins signed on doing Castiel, and I can't remember the angel doing much of anything besides pumping gas.


    Somebody needs to tell Robbie to quit obsessing over his Mary Sues and old storylines and start thinking ahead to the main characters and main arcs.

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  12. Season 8 was when he started pitching it, I think. It would have fit perfectly into the first half of that season.

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  13. Isn't iZombie a comic book show too?

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  14. Yep, agree with #5.


    Essentially the only point of Rowena and Charlie to be in the same room was for the older more confident Rowena to knock the sparkles out of Charlie, who only got her sparkles back in the motel room.


    As it seems that all she needed was that 15 minutes in a room on her own to play to get her mojo back. But after the alone time with her trusty tablet she wasn't ready to make her deal with a real live person even if he wasn't fully physically functional.


    I wonder how many nerdy 15 year old boys can relate to Charlie's story arc in this one?

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  15. Nothing will change since this show left on its own to die slow death. No one will invest in 11yo veteran, they are going to squeeze every single penny out of it and let it go. TV is a business, SPN makes WB tons of money on syndication and cons, and ratings so far (yes, new low, but still #3 on network) pretty decent.
    I expect CW run SPN down to the ground in next 2 years , I wish they announce final season next week.
    No one in their right mind will step in as new showrunner now, for last 2 seasons, because patient in on life support and going to die soon, so why care for old and weak and deal with bunch of crazy minions (as we are, non-stop critics and complainers) if there is an opportunity to get something new and promising going.
    As much as I love this show I see it go down with a wimp, with bunch of ex-fans dancing on a grave.

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  16. Yes. Comics is new CW's direction. Next year we'll get another one. Too bad for me.

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  17. I didn't like Charlie, but I liked the way she was sent off- more or less like Harvels, well aware of sacrifice. She died as a hero, not pointlessly like Kevin (that was one horrible send-off IMHO)
    Overall OK episode for me. Hopefully next two will be much more exiting.

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  18. I'm not happy with the way the show is going, but it is a bit premature to declare it is dying. it still is the number 3 or number 4 rated show on the network. Yes, the ratings are weakening, but the fall off is far less than say TVD. As to no one in their right mind taking over for the last 2 seasons, having a show runner background on your resume is nothing to sneeze at. For all the complaints fans had about Sera Gamble's reign, she is currently producing two shows, Aquarius, which starts on NBC the end of this month and The Magicians which ScyFy just picked up. She is also co-show runner on The Magicians. So if Carver really leaves, I don't think there will be an issue replacing him. Also, a new show runner might change the direction enough to put the show back on the right course. Ratings did go up in season 9, so it is possible.

    Basically, no matter how I feel about the quality of the show, if enough people watch it I don't root for it to be canceled.

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  19. I do not root for SPN cancellation, I want it to end with decency, whenever that end will happened. I want it go on its own terms, not because it lost all the viewers and appeal and being cancelled like a fail and reject. Show needs some fresh blood, some new story, epic one to resurrect itself.
    Procedurals go on for 10+seasons without a problem, but SPN is not just procedural, it needs a core brothers story. I hope someone come up with something exiting, but I afraid Frankensteins were tried s new big bads for season 11. That's will be a big mistake.

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  20. Tessa, I also really loved that Cas/Dean conversation. MC played it so well. The way he ended the call was hilarious, and as you said, it was a definite throw back to old, awkward Cas. I loved it. It was very in character, which is so rare these days.


    Good review. I disagree w/you about Sam being responsible for idiot Charlie's death but agree that is was yet another bad SPN episode in a bad SPN season.

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  21. That Fluff and Fold episode should have happened since most viewers were most interested in what Sam was up to before meeting Amelia. I guess Carver thought the idea of him driving around aimlessly w/o no purpose was more exciting and mature.

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  22. I wonder how many nerdy 15 year old boys can relate to Charlie's story arc in this one? Few I suspect, since I have a suspicion they had to hogtie their representative Robbie and keep him from running onto the set and yelling cut. It's both sad and slightly humorous that another pair of writers notorious for canon trampling and character propping went behind his back and killed his darling.

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  23. Obviously we can't know the thought process, but my guess is that if the audience knew that Sam tried to find Dean and failed, then Dean's persistent beating Sam over the head with "you hit a dog and met a girl" would make Dean look insensitive and bad and the point of the season was to make Sam look bad and insensitive. It goes along with Gadreel possessing Sam turning into "shared housing" and Demon!Dean being a moral demon who only kills other demons and bad people who deserve it. Heck even MOC Dean killed pedophiles so that fans could say "I'd have killed them myself, so Dean is a good guy. Why is Sam trying to save him?"

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  24. Yeah I think they did have to hogtie him, and he still sounds pissed about it.


    But it has to be humiliating to have Singer take the substitute Robbie and then have his wife kill her off in a way that makes out that Robbie is one step from a kid who plays with his computer in his locked room and blows his load just before he really gets his chance to deal with what he says he wants.

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  25. Ha! I expected you to be much more "gripey" about this one. Your points are valid and I am not going to dispute them or add my own. What I am going to say is that I liked the episode and enjoyed it more than most of them this season, and it's not because Charlie is dead -- although BONUS and I am filled with joy about that. Here's why I liked it, though.

    It did what it was supposed to do -- move the Winchester story to the forefront, and I have been waiting all damned season to see something about a Winchester story. "Dean is getting worse," is not a story -- it's a condition. Now I hope to get to the story.

    JA got a chance to play Dean for the first time in a long time, and I thought the dialogue for him was spot-on. I also love it when Sam is shown to not be able to lie his way out of a paper bag when he knows he has done some big-time wrong. It's an adorable side of Sam and JP is able to bring Sam' vulnerability out really well.



    The episode was focused solely on the brothers and the tension throughout wasn't on whether or not Dean would find out, but WHEN Dean would find out. I loved the slow reveal leading up to that. Dean is a violent, smart, and very patient man, and that slow revealed worked well for me....besides Dean was scary as Hell as he was telling Sam that he knew about the Book.


    It wasn't a Thompson episode, and thank you, Lemming-Ross/Buckner for taking all of Charlie's sparkly brilliance away. I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Rowena manipulating her and driving her crazy. I know Thompson is an emotional wreck right now. He fought for her. He had meetings and emails and begged TPTB not to kill her off. He has let it be known that it wasn't his idea, and he is trying to start a Twitter #BringCharlieBack campaign. The poor dear. I am just sorry he was given another teenage girl to make his pet. I will skip her episodes next season.


    Yes, Cas was funny with his "This call is pointless," but so was Rowena. Her "Don't tell my brother," her "I barely know the man" in that horrible "For Dean" scene, and other things she did cracked me up. Oh how I miss the Dean/Cas profound bond. Damn you cowardly writers!...but could it be any clearer that Cas has no purpose on this show. He was literally stuck babysitting and doing nothing but buying pork rinds.


    Could it be any sadder that Crowley has been reduced to talking to a hamster with a total of maybe ten lines in an episode? I will just add some speculation here and say that I think Crowley is going to be dead meat and replaced by Rowena to satisfy the fan whining about no "strong female' character being a regular on the show.


    Anyway, not perfect, but it kept me engaged, it moved both Sam and Dean into a position of having a 3-episode arc equal to Claire, I can't wait to see Dean go on a (hopefully) 2-minute slaughter of the Stynes, and it was good to see Dean as he should have been shown for the past three years.

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  26. You speak the truth, Girl. I cannot even imagine Robbie Thompson being a keynote speaker about writing. Good thing that conference is free.


    Robbie isn't going to give up on Charlie easily. We will see her next season, but probably only once.


    He may get to do this Jody's Wayward Teens episode, an idea from his 25 Twitter crowd that are campaigning for it. He say's Berens should do it, because he really understands Jody's character. I don't care who the hell does it....I won't watch it.

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  27. I would say Thompson still cares more about his self-insert character than he does the show. He also said when he writes a script, he goes back and reads the scripts so he can get the "voice" of the characters right. Sure, Robbie. He said that he wanted to write the Purgatory script and show each and every "bullet" Dean used. It's quite apparent he has not actually WATCHED the Purgatory scenes, or he would know that Dean didn't have a gun; he had a damned stone axe.

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  28. Actually the Stynes helping Hitler rise to power was one of the things that was mentioned in "Book of the Damned." Also, their actual linage was teased with their family crest -- which is identical to the Frankenstein family crest in Young Frankenstein.


    Rowena was shackled in iron restraints, which meant that her ability to use magic was nullified.

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  29. Even though Executioner's Song was a really good episode, I didn't like what they did to Cain's character in that one. There are several other ways I can think of for Cain that I would have liked -- things that would have had Cain in more than two episodes

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  30. Well, this is Dean. Do expect that he would go into any mission, regardless if a gun was needed, without one? And there's the fact that he was shown exiting Purgatory with his gun, pointing it at campers to steal their supplies.

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  31. Maybe the CW has given up on the idea of a SPN spin-off. They just order development of DC comic book spin-off from Arrow/Flash with some characters from those shows. Here's the link:

    http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/arrow-flash-superhero-spin-off-dc-comics-the-cw-1201442750/

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  32. Hey, this was a terrible episode but the important thing is Charlie's dead. In the words of Dean, that's a gift horse and I ain't checking for teeth.

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  33. The ONLY thing I liked about this ep was CHARLIE IS DEAD and I don't blame Sam, Charlie(the smartest person in the room) went off on her own and got DEAD. Dang I love typing that. ;)

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  34. To be honest, they has a good story that could have potentially made the season. Instead it gets singled down to three episodes before the finale. I have a feeling that if this season had been laid out differently then it wouldn't have been as boring and stupid. If they hadn't spent a majority of the episodes on the side character's personal journeys , there would be less complaints.
    I don't care about the Stynes! If they had introduced them in let's say episode 10, with Sam and Dean trying to hunt them down. Shrouded in mystery until it is finally revealed what their back story is in the final episodes. Then yeah, I would be a little bit more interested, but nope most of this season was built on Rowena and other side characters!
    The first eight episodes were good, introduce Rowena, get the Demon out of Dean, a few fillers etc.... After eight though I would rewrite 9 and 10 and the Styne family. 11 would be episode 9 and Charlie finds the book faster so Sam and Dean could chase the Stynes and find out why they want the book. We meet Monroe in one of the episodes and slowly get to know who he is. Very much like what they did with Dick Roman in season 7. I would have loved to see the Styne Family as the Big Bads of the season rather than emphasising that it would be Rowena, because so far Rowena has done pretty much nothing but annoy and turn Crowley into a big pussy! They kept building and building us to believe that we would have a fight with The Grand Coven, and Rowena would take a major part in that. But that all came to a disappointing end when the only things that we got were meeting two members, and then finding out that The Grand Coven was taken down by the Men of Letters! So all that build up from the first ten episodes was a total waste!!!!
    Take out that one really pointless, badly written filler episode "Paint it Black", reduce Claire's screen time from three bloody episodes to one, possibly half of two episodes. Can the Rowena/Crowley stuff! That really should have been one episode, and then have he deceive her son, or vice versa.
    This season was way too focused on Crowley and Castiel's personal journeys. Which I guess is okay, both are regulars on the show, and need more detail. But the way that it was executed was just so boring!

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  35. This is a bit weird - going through your review point-wise, I find myself unable to disagree with any of it and I happen to agree with most of your gripes, But I also get the feeling that a lot went unsaid as well.



    The Stynes - As arc-villains go, these guys are unimpressive and uninspired. The Leviathans were atleast initially presented as the unstoppable, unkillable juggernauts of the Supernatural world. The Stynes are shown to be stopped and killed pretty easily. After the cosmic level entities the Winchesters have faced in the past, are we really supposed to think that these guys are a credible threat? The one thing they might have had going for them was their secrecy - but apparently, everything about them is in MoL files.


    Speaking of secrets...


    Dude, atleast make me work for it...
    Eldon Styne. With this dumbass as the heir to the family, the Winchesters need not do anything - the whole clan would collapse under the weight of his stupidity within a generation. Forget the whole idiocy of leaving bodies behind and not taking the advantage of having one free hand to escape - Dean didn't even have to work to get anything out of him. For someone who is supposed to value secrecy, this is what he gave up - "we are looking for the book, we are looking for Charlie, the book cannot be destroyed, we are stronger but not unstoppable, we have lots of family members, we practice surgical implants for physical enhancement, I've two hearts, so remember to stab both of them, here is a list of crimes we are guilty of and our family name used to be Frankenstein - so that, you know, if you run into any obstacles on how to deal with us, you know where to look". Short of giving Dean access to the family database with a list of their names and addresses, I'm not sure how else he could've been any more helpful.


    Rowena and Charlie - I'm not sure what to make of this one. On one hand, Sam's plan makes a lot of sense - Rowena was clearly stalling and bringing in another code-breaker to hurry things along makes sense. Bringing in Cas as "spiritual muscle" to protect Charlie also makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, there is everything you said was wrong with the idea. It seems like one of the things that looked better on paper than in actual execution.


    Insult to all hackers - Apart from the tablet thing, there was Charlie's method of cracking the code. "Ezekiel represents seven which represents seeker" or "Saints represent groups of letter which represent number which represent concepts... blah blah blah". Does that gibberish make any sense at all in code-breaking?


    Contrived Coincidences - I'm conflicted about this one too. On one hand, yes, everyone was making dumb mistakes left and right which end in Charlie's death. On the other hand, the characters make these mistakes on a regular basis. The captive Styne being chained by only one hand seemed like a supremely stupid thing to do and I was sure that he'd somehow use that error to escape. But Eldon didn't use his free arm for anything other than lifting up his shirt and showing his scars. The ripping off his arm gambit would've been the same if both his hands were tied.


    Resurrecting Charlie This is perhaps the only point I'd disagree on. My theory is that angels can bring back the dead only if they haven't been dead for long. Once the souls move on with the reaper, bringing them back would require more than a single angel's intervention and would involve getting permission from heaven.

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  36. Ha! Dean IS usually fully loaded, except when he is not.

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  37. This gif may be the best demonstration of the stupidity in the episode Sam, Dean and Eldon
    http://eisforeidolon.tumblr.com/post/118430653766/deansbeerbottle-im-thinking-that-eldon-styne

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  38. Did anyone else notice that the shadow on the wall shows an open manacle and not a hanging arm? Special effects failure much?

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  39. I'm w/you there. I'm not sure why Carver had to make Sam wrong or why the brothers had to be in conflict that year, but that seems to be Carver's MO.

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  40. Charlie was one of the last good characters left on the show and so of course she had to die. Supernatural is NOT ALLOWED to have supporting characters. I personally really liked Charlie but it's all an opinion.


    The episode was ok but yeah characters making stupid choices, Cas being super useless and showing no powers, etc.


    Supernatural really needs a new showrunner and some new writers.

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  41. Oh, to never hear, "What's up, bitches?" ever again!

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  42. I read about the Thompson interview on IMDB, and it seems as if the first posting was a paraphrasing and then there were more postings and it seemed he was saying the same stuff but emphasizing things differently and THEN somebody did a transcript which was actually a fairly politic discussing of how writers discuss the show. So I can agree with what you said without being sure which post/interview/comment by the writer you read and not knowing until the transcript exactly what he said.

    I actually liked Gamble's uber plots. I liked the "idea" of Soulless Sam, the Heavenly War, Crowley and Castiel's deal, and then the Leviathans. She had ideas and kept with them. Here's a for-instance: in Season 7 when Frank told Sam and Dean no more rock star names, be Smith and Smith (no relation) and garage Baby, well, it made sense. I could never figure out how Hendrickson or anybody else could not find two guys in a 1967 Chevy impala. ALL of Frank's (Gamble's) strictures were spot on for anonymity. But then Gamble ran into trouble with the financials and they brought back Kripke and the first thing HE says is, Where's the car? Various people say, I hate the Bunker, I want them back on the road, only in crappy motels. To ME that was depressing. These are guys in their 30s, I WANT them to have someplace to lay their heads on comfortable mattresses. To me people want things to be exactly the same (the boys don't learn their lesson, as Tessa says here) but that translates into "no growth" either. I hope I am being clear. I guess people want some things to be the same, and some things to be different.

    In reading Tessa's review, I can agree that for once, Charlie WASN'T the smartest person in the room, the plot demanded that EVERYBODY be as stupid as Forrest Gump. Only he wouldn't have run out of a protected, warded building that had a fully-powered up ANGEL as bodyguard. Who won the stupid 'stakes this week? I think Charlie because she ended up dead. BUT as a plot issue, Charlie was the only one in the current cast of characters who would send Dean into the rage spiral I believe we will see next week. She was the only human they have "let in" in FOREVER. (I also want to say that I appreciate Dean in this business for being consistent: when he dealt with Cole, he told him Go Home, don't be a Hunter. He tried to get Charlie to go home in Larp and the Real Girl and she came back in Pac-Man Fever and demanded IN. He has always TRIED to keep every civilian he can OUT of the Hunter world because he doesn't want people to die. So next week we get Raging Dean on his way to Demon Dean. BUT I will enjoy him taking out those arrogant Stynes.

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  43. I think this is stupid in the extreme; the actors do not appear to be negotiating for more money, they negotiate for time off with their families. That is admirable, but it leaves the show with the option of splitting them up or leaving 20min per show with no cast. ONE THING I can say about Xena: Warrior Princess was they invented characters that I wanted to see and they were such good side characters (especially Bruce Cambell, as "the king of thieves") that they could run WHOLE EPISODES without Xena (except at the end, when she'd show up to break up some cabal of evil in the last five minutes) and I for one was thoroughly entertained.

    So why KILL Charlie, why NOT have the Stynes kidnap her and negotiate for the Book? Dean could go thermonuclear in either case.

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  44. Agree about Meg. We saw, or thought we saw, Crowley stab her with an Angel Blade, BUT he could've created an illusion so Sam and Dean thought she was dead, and then taken her to Hell for more torture. And since the actress has MS, they could bring in a NEW meat suit for the character. I could never figure out WHY they didn't do that.

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  45. Bring back the eternal Tuesday of the autistic man who died in the bathtub. THAT was beautiful in concept.

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  46. We know nothing about the politics BTS, but what I think about Thompson is that he spends way too much on Twitter to get his affirmations and the man will say anything that the thinks the fans want to hear. For instance, he said he wanted to do more DemonDean. That is not what he said in any of his interviews when he was out promoting Fan Fiction.

    And let's look at the notes from his Q & A at the SPN conference:

    He says, "You start as baby writer/staff writer—your job is to listen, be passionate, do your homework."

    Well, he failed that level, I would say. It's pretty obvious he hasn't watched any of the purgatory flashbacks or he would know that if Dean had a gun, it would hold 15 bullets, and his enemies were monster souls. Maybe that idea got rejected because it was nothing more than an idea.

    "Wanted to do more Demon!Dean (so say we all) but was denied. "

    Talk about telling people what you learned from Twitter they like. Not once did he say that when he was out doing those interviews promoting Fan Fiction.

    "There’s no Rufus without Bobby."

    Oh, really? Rufus and Bobby were hunters. Bobby would have loved being around the bunker and he would have been useful there. I seriously doubt Rufus would have stepped foot in it and would not have needed to, since he had long accumulated contacts and a library and knew his stuff. Robbie's head canon is that Rufus and Bobby were two grumpy old men, not teenage girls holding phallic symbols.

    He doesn't get a final say at his day job? No kidding. He does, however, get paid $30,000 per episode, whatever he got paid for being on staff, and residuals for using Charlie over and over again.

    I don't think he is going anywhere, but I would be quite okay with him doing so. I consider him the worst writer on SPN, not just for his self-insert Charlie, but because his writing is inconsistent and extremely cliched. He really needs take more classes or do some home study on how to write dialogue.



    I seriously wonder about the guys emotional maturity.

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  47. BOTH those ideas are excellent; I would've preferred Charlie-gets-kidnapped myself. Dean would've "still" gone ballistic.

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  48. Even though I thought the episode on a whole was pretty terrible plot wise. I did enjoy it for the most part, I felt it was entertaining minus a few of the more ludicrous scenes like Crowley and the hamster. What I really enjoyed about the episode was the inclusion of Frankenstein into the mythology. Not because of how it was included because it got me thinking and my creativity flowing on what could be. All I could think of after the episode was how cool it would be if they were to introduce a sinister, bad ass amazing version of the Frankenstein monster locked up by the Stynes all of these years. Only to be freed by the Winchesters becoming a truly horrifying big bad uniting them for the next season. Really unlikely that the writers would go that way but I can hope lol.

    I think Supernatural really needs to go back to its roots in horror, thriller and suspense. I think a telling a Frankenstein can do that. Charlie's death I did enjoy even though the way they did it was embarrassingly horrible, but I like the idea of the character being dead as a means to unite the brothers. It probably will not be used that way though unfortunately. I really hope that they cannot remove the mark and Dean will have to live with it and make due. I would enjoy that story much more than a contrived mark removal plot.

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  49. What good would a knife in Purgatory be then, yet he still stabbed the "mutt" in the head with one. Purgatory is still a physical plane of existence, if Dean is able to wield an axe and decapitate souls, it stands to reason that a gun would still be able to inflict damage.

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  50. You're right. He HAD his gun at DRE before Dick Roman exploded. Thompson talked about him counting how many bullets he had left to use in Purgatory as he was under constant attack. The idea of Sam leaving KEVIN in the lurch did such destruction to Sam's character in the show.

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  51. I didn't notice that, not even on the gif, but I think the production department has not done the superior job that they used to do. I don't know what's up with that, unless it is a budge issue.

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  52. The actor who played Jacob appeared MUCH stronger than anybody at Big Daddy's convention this week. Why didn't they use him for Eldon? Because they decided on Blondes Have More Fun?

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  53. That's not a shadow, though. It's another manacle connected to the wall.

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  54. hey, I "liked" Crowley and Hamstervette. But, to each his own. I DO say however, Mark Sheppard dis a stellar job of acting with a hamster. Best I've ever seen. ONLY time I've ever seen.

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  55. Well in the actual scene with Eldon talking to Sam and Dean, his arm is shackled in tight.

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  56. I meant to upvote and hit reply. But I agree. Thompson's relationship to Charlie is "odd" to say the least.

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  57. I noticed I was LITERALLY on the edge of my seat the last ten minutes, from the Dean-stands-over-Sam getting answers to Dean walking into the bathroom.

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  58. When you really think about it, Charlie running off to the motel wasn't as dumb as people are saying. 1. She knew the Styne's were tracking the Book of the Damned, and not her. 2. She didn't have any more run-ins with the Styne's since "Book of the Damned" and we found out this episode that Eldon was shirking his duties in tracking her down. 3. She was wholly unaware that Sam and Dean were working on case that involved Eldon. So given all that info, there's no reason to think that she would have been in danger going to a motel with her notes.

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  59. It's tough to know about who said what and what they meant when it gets passed along so much in the fandom. However, something when stuff gets taken out of context, it becomes more of an issue that you gave the "context" in the first place. Something is stirring behind the scenes, but we may never know.


    I think Gamble and Carver had their share of good and bad. For me, Gamble had better ideas and was more consistent, while Carver is able to creates stories that can last and widens the supernatural world. But Gamble couldn't focus her ideas to pull them together or keep them lasting and Carver has trouble with the basics of characterization and plotting. All of this just drive me nuts, because they have all the parts, they just can't seem to pull it together. Maybe there is a need for someone new in charge. I think Dabb could do it or maybe someone else entirely?

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  60. That would explain why she sat in front of a window with the blinds open. I hadn't thought of that.

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  61. I hated the hamster scene, too. Poor Mark Shepperd, such a fine actor to be reduced to a wussy King of Hell wanting his mother's love and then having maybe ten lines talking to a hamster. Pathetic.

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  62. Dean was scary as hell, wasn't he evade? I also thought Dean showing up in the hallway was scary. JA can do comedy really well, and say very bad B- lines and make them funny, but he is best when he is badass, mean Dean, in my book.

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  63. I liked Jacob. I wished they would have used him more, too. Elton just didn't cut it for me.

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  64. Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to see Purgatory Dean again. I hope we see some of that in next week's episode when he goes about slaughtering the Stynes.

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  65. Yeah, Eldon claiming he was going to RAPE Dead Teaser Girl because he was upset about his better-actor brother Jacob being dead was so stupid I was surprised Big Daddy Styne did not slap him in the face. To quote Larry Wilmore, WUUUT?

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  66. Oh, Ginger, you give me the vapors. And then my asthma acts up. But don't stop, I have more than enough cough syrup.

    It was interesting, Hellboy (HIYA), that Big Daddy Styne sent one minion after The Book and the other after "the red-haired girl."

    Does anybody else think the Stynes are not actually "supernatural" beings? In the first episode I thought they were kind of uber-witches but now I don't know. That litany of villainy (see I can rhyme?) Eldon came up with meant to ME that they had precognitive abilities or something, could SEE something like the Black Death about to develop and made investments so that they could prosper from others' terrors. Maybe I misunderstood him? Because saying "they" were responsible for 9/11 was so out of the box it was in the next cornfield. But "knowing" things were going to happen and profit from it (like airline stocks tanking after the attack) made sense to me.

    Anyway, if the Stynes aren't actual "supernatural" beings, it would explain why they don't know who the hell the Winchesters are or didn't notice the freakin' Apocalypse.

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  67. I thought it was Eldon, but Big Daddy had such a cornpone accent I'll buy Elton too.

    Elton reminds me of the douche-canoe Prince Kenneth from Grimm (I hope to GOD ALMIGHTY he get HIS this week in the season finale).

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  68. I assumed stuff like the Black Death was the Stynes using the Book of the Damned to spread the disease. I think it's less precognition and more being puppeteers/manipulators, getting all the chess pieces in the right place, and having the "puppets" execute the plans.


    I don't think the Stynes are supernatural beings either, but that they learned to mix science and magic for their own gains.

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  69. I didn't see much in the way of strength at all. Sure, we saw both Jacob and Eldon being capable of a one-handed neck-lift and they do keep moving after getting mortal wounds, but that seems to be on course with the family. And clearly, as we saw, greater strength does not mean better fighting skills.

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  70. Whoa - you are right. It looks like a shadow, but it was there in previous scenes as well.



    So, Dean had another manacle available right there and didn't use it?

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  71. We had episodes focused on Bobby and Cas and both characters were able to carry that pretty well I think. But as I recall, Xena's episodes focusing on supporting cast were filler and focused on comedy - I don't think the same thing would work here. Xena also had a lot of recurring characters, Supernatural tends to kill theirs off on a regular basis.

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  72. To me people want things to be exactly the same (the boys don't learn
    their lesson, as Tessa says here) but that translates into "no growth"
    either. I hope I am being clear. I guess people want some things to be
    the same, and some things to be different.


    But that shouldn't matter, right? In my experience, shows that focus on "what fans want" tend to meander in terms of both plot and character development. The ones that say "screw the fans, this is an awesome storyline and we're doing it" tend to do much better.

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  73. Do you think that the hamster in this episode was a better actress than the dog from Dog Dean Afternoon?

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  74. She knew that the book was hidden and one way for the Stynes to find it was to find her. Even if she wasn't aware of the details, this was a foreseeable danger. Dean carries a gun and a knife with him when he goes out to get pizza - why shouldn't Charlies atleast do the same?

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  75. Yeah, but again she didn't even know the Stynes were looking for her. She knew they were able to track the book, and the book was warded, she made no mention of the Stynes looking for her, and we also learned that Eldon wasn't looking for her. But she still appeared to be laying low, using an assumed nae, etc...


    Well, Dean and Sam are kinda paranoid -- they sleep with guns under their pillows, even in the bunker. Charlie was carrying a knife though.

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  76. I think it was really more a production choice, as Eldon being chained in the middle of the room allowed the scene more movement, with Dean being able to walk around him, etc...

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  77. I'm trying to see this from Charlie's perspective - The Stynes who came after her are all dead. Sam destroyed the book, but since the only other witness to that was killed shortly after, the other Stynes didn't get the memo that the book is destroyed. Since they also seem to know that Sam and Dean can ward the book, let's assume that they'd keep looking for it and they'd have to do it the old-fashioned way. Which means, they'd be looking for her. Which means, she should be constantly looking over her shoulder for Stynes. But then she finds out that the book is still in play after all - so her paranoia level should've gone up automatically.

    To be sure, contrived miscommunication did play a huge role in Charlie's death. Even Sam had no specific knowledge of a contingent of Stynes looking for her or that they were so close to finding her. But everyone knew that the Stynes were looking for her because it made logical sense for them to do so. Sam told Cas that there were dangerous people looking for her and that's why he had to keep an eye on her. If Cas had passed this information along to Charlie, maybe she wouldn't have left. If Charlie had waited for Cas to tie up Rowena in the other room, maybe he'd have told her about it afterwards. If anybody had thought of calling her and filling her in after she bailed, maybe she'd have come right back. Plot-holes and contrivances all around - no doubt.

    But a good hunter should never be caught unawares and unprepared like that. Sam and Dean are paranoid because everything is out to get them - which is what any decent hunter should assume if he wants a chance at surviving this life. Despite all the criticisms of Charlie being a Mary-Sue who seemingly gained extraordinary hunter skills overnight, her being caught with just a knife for defense and letting herself be cornered in the bathroom shows how inexperienced she truly was. A little more paranoia and a little more caution and she might just have survived.

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  78. Ofcourse it was a production choice - I'm saying that it was a stupid and senseless production choice. Eldon having both of this arms chained would've allowed for the same about of room and movement - but then he wouldn't have been able to lift his shirt and show them the surgical scars.

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  79. One thing I had spotted on Charlies laptop is that she has a Supernatural Application. Now this may have course been a nod to us fans, but in her real world of a computer geek lady that wouldn't have even been present. She would not have known about Supernatural, so I think they were wrong in placing that app on her desktop for all to see, big blunder continuity dept!! I have checked with people I know who are wiz kids at technology and all have said yes, you need technical equipment to hack into someone else's database. So sorry writers another little blunder.

    I've not seen it yet, but I am pleased that Charlie is gone, as we lost Kevin, who to me was ten times better than Charlie, and he didn't live to tell the tale whom is still trapped in the veil writers!!! Will Charlie end up there too, and become a ghost. If they are to check their own writing one would automatically assume so, but will they?? I think Charlie's demise was a bit of a cop out as we never saw her die, and I think the show is getting worse at this. We need closure on a character unless there is some other unforeseen reason why they can't show us.

    It appeared silly of the boys again not to tie the Styne up with both hands, and leave the door unlocked, Abaddon anyone??? This just makes our boys look dumb to prop up Charlie Bardbury! The boys are bright, intelligent men and the writers should show us this more often, not let a secondary character take charge. Moan over....

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  80. One thing I had spotted on Charlies laptop is that she has a
    Supernatural Application. Now this may have course been a nod to us
    fans, but in her real world of a computer geek lady that wouldn't have
    even been present. She would not have known about Supernatural, so I
    think they were wrong in placing that app on her desktop for all to see,
    big blunder continuity dept!!

    Actually, not a blunder. The app also said "Carver Edlund" - which means it was probably a reader app where she read the Supernatural books written by Chuck, something that has been referred to in the past. Other things on her tablet (& email) refer to "Moondoor" and "Queen of Moons" - another continuity nod to her past appearances.

    I have checked with people I know who are wiz kids at technology and all
    have said yes, you need technical equipment to hack into someone else's
    database. So sorry writers another little blunder.

    Umm... whose database did Charlie hack into here?

    I've not seen it yet, but I am pleased that Charlie is gone, as we lost
    Kevin, who to me was ten times better than Charlie, and he didn't live
    to tell the tale whom is still trapped in the veil writers!!! Will
    Charlie end up there too, and become a ghost. If they are to check their
    own writing one would automatically assume so, but will they?? I think
    Charlie's demise was a bit of a cop out as we never saw her die, and I
    think the show is getting worse at this. We need closure on a character
    unless there is some other unforeseen reason why they can't show us.

    Since we saw Amelia reach heaven, I think we can be pretty sure that the veil is no longer an issue. And we saw her dead body - what more closure do you need?

    It appeared silly of the boys again not to tie the Styne up with both
    hands, and leave the door unlocked, Abaddon anyone??? This just makes
    our boys look dumb to prop up Charlie Bardbury! The boys are bright,
    intelligent men and the writers should show us this more often, not let a
    secondary character take charge. Moan over....


    Abaddon had both hands cut off and she was held in place by a devil's trap - that imprisonment was much better than this one. And how does Eldon's sloppy imprisonment make Charlie look any better at all. I know people like yelling Mary Sue every time she appears on screen, but Charlie was completely out of charge this episode.

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  81. Here is another of my personal favorites, evave. Eldon was chained up in the bunker...that's in Lebanon, Kansas. Charlie was in Omaha, Nebraska. Eldon escapes, with a lead time of about five minutes, pouring all his blood out and makes it to Omaha, a walking trip of 217 miles, in...what?...half hour at max. Not only could Dean not track him with that five minute lead he had, I assume he could not kick the motel door in with his enhanced leg muscles because he was tired from that long walk....and Eldon is still alive and knows exactly where the super-secret-for-housands-of-years-repository-of-all-things-supernatural bunker is.....BUT Charlie is dead, so I am overlooking all things improbable in the episode.....AND...the Nepotism Duo took all her sparkly brilliance away...BONUS that!!!


    Whether one thinks that a bionic human with two hearts and extra leg muscles (shouldn't that throw his walking off or at least cause terrific back pain?) is not a supernatural being or whether you consider they are a version of Doc Benton, they are dead meat walking. They crossed the line by killing Charlie (along with other various murders to harvest human organs) and they are after the Winchesters and that makes them fair game for an enraged Dark!Dean. Bring it on!!! It's about friggin' time we saw some of that again.

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  82. Where did you get Charlie being in Omaha, Nebraska? I thought Omaha was where the harvesting took place, the Winchester headed back to Lebanon after investigation and Eldon followed them all the while Charlie and Co. were in a local abandoned factory.

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  83. Well, I don't know where Sam set Rowena up at, but I doubt it is anywhere near the bunker. Lebanon, Kansas sits in the middle of cow pastures with 200 people living it it and the nearest bigger town to it is Topeka, which we didn't get a sign across the screen for, but we did Omaha, so I am guessing that Omaha it is.

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  84. It has to be within driving distance, given that Sam was able to go there, have a nice long chat with Rowena (or do other stuff like givin Cas and Charlie their marching orders) and make it back to the bunker without Dean even knowing that he was gone (or getting suspicious about it). Maybe the abandoned factory is just outside the "nearest town". The Omaha sign was for where the murders took place, not where Rowena was.

    I also recall Charlie's weather app showing the details for Lebanon (I remember it because I thought it was weird for her to track weather in the Middle East) - so I guess they are in Kansas after all.

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  85. I think that's maybe the point, Charlie wasn't a good hunter. She's like Dean's buddy Richie from season 3, in the hunter life but not exactly made for it. Which ends up getting both killed.

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  86. I have to disagree with the Harvels comparrison. To me Ellen and Jo's send off was epic. It happened during a true battle and in a situation that was nothing short of desperate. It's true that there was still some forced twists involved (like Castiel being trapped by Lucifer.) But those developments weren't plot holes, and I wasn't left thinking they could have survived in a million ways.

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  87. Sam was only one of the people responsible for Charlie's death. As I mention in gripe 5, a long list of stupid moves by different people ( primarily Charlie herself ) caused her death.

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  88. It's an adorable side of Sam and JP is able to bring Sam' vulnerability out really well.This is one reason why Sam is my favorite character this season. I missed his guilty puppy eyes from seasons 1-5 so much and sick, possessed, unconsious, hallucinating Sam of 6-7 was lacking this adorable trait. I'm digging this Sam particularly for his mistakes and cute reactions to them.

    I see your point about the brothers being the focus of the episode. I wished it was a more original story than one brother doing something behind the other's back and having it blow up in their faces. I'm tired of the brothers at odds. Why Castiel, who's seen this a million times and should know the outcome, followed Sam like a sheep is also beyond me.

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  89. This all happened in 10x19, right? Don't remember anythign about the Stynes mentioned before that episode, which underlines my gripe about them sprouting out of nowhere and becoming all important to everything.

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  90. True that, but I still had to write a review, and it had to be longer than, "Yeay, she's dead!" :)

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  91. To be honest, they has a good story that could have potentially made the season. Instead it gets singled down to three episodes before the finale. Precisely my problem. They could have introduced (or at least hinted at) the Stynes early on, made them into a truly scary shadow power behind the scenes - that was related to the MotW episodes in some way, hence connecting them under one common theme - and sprung them in the last three episodes as the villains of the season. Instead we were told about them in two episodes and they were more corny than scary.

    And I just realized I typed exactly the same thing as you said in your second paragraph. Similar minds.

    As for Rowena, I'm baffled why they put so much emphasis on her and then did nothing with it. It reminds me of season 6 and the villain hopping between the Campbells, the alphas, Crowley, and the Mother of All, only to land on - surprise!!! - misguided Castiel.

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  92. I also get the feeling that a lot went unsaid as well.I agree. I could write pages more on each and every one of these episodes; I just don't have the time. And let's face it, something has to be left for you guys to contribute. ;)

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  93. Yeah, the bunker is in Kansas, and Omaha is a 217 mile drive from there. 217 miles is nothing to the Winchesters...but walking it with a torn off arm and pouring blood might take a little longer than 30 minutes.


    It's not a big point, but since I am familiar with that part of the U.S., it stood out to me.

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  94. My opinion is that these writers listen entirely too much to the fans. Personally, I wouldn't mind the brothers being off doing their own thing much more than they ever do, but there is always the screaming of wanting the brothers together, which is very restrictive for the writers. I swear the writers count words to make sure one or the other doesn't get something more.

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  95. He said that Carver and Singer wanted to do a musical episode. Granted, he could just being throwing Carver and Singer under the bus.To me this sounds strange since he himself was put in charge of writing the episode. Personally if I disagree with something I'll do everything in my power (like fake illness) not to be a part of it.

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  96. Hey, after this season of a constant parade of anybody else except the Winchesters, I am willing to take whatever I can get to salvage the nine months I spent watching the damned thing. I figure a 3-episode arc of a Winchester story will have to be called good this season, but I sure as hell will not watch another whole season to get that. At the moment and unless I cool down over the next 5-1/2 months, my viewing will be the premiere and the finale, with checking out the two episodes leading up to the finale to see if the Winchesters will get a 3-episode arc again. I am not watching another year of Claire, Kate, Dylan, Charlie, Jody and her wayward girls, Donut, Cole, and various unknown teenagers.


    Thompson get away from Twitter!!! You silly thing.

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  97. What I really enjoyed about the episode was the inclusion of Frankenstein into the mythology. Not because of how it was included because it got me thinking and my creativity flowing on what could be.Well the fans do seem to always come up with better stories for the ideas presented on the show than the showrunners themselves, so feel free to write a fanfic incorporating your crativity about the Frankenstein angle. I might read it. :)

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  98. I'll defend him here. Writing a script isn't the kind of thing you can fake an illness over. You can write if you are in bed with a cold or even the flu. If you are in the hospital, you can get out of it, but it's not like a job where if you are sick for a day or two someone just steps in. Plus, he has a contract. I doubt refusing to write a script because you think the concept throws off the flow of the season is considered acceptable. He didn't want to do the musical partly because he wanted Dean to stay a demon longer. They were going to de-demonize Dean in time for the 200th no matter who wrote that episode, so refusing to write it wouldn't do any good.

    He was pretty clear that there is a hierarchy on the writing staff and he is not on the top. He needs to play by the rules and do what he can so that eventually he can get to the top, on Supernatural or on a different show.

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  99. Then it sounds incredibly dickish that they put him in charge of that episode. No wonder it was so terrible. If the writer doesn't believe or like what he's writing and is forced to do it, he won't do a good job.

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  100. IMO, Sam is not even slightly responsible for her death. I thought they were going to clearly make him responsible, but they didn't IMO. She killed herself.

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  101. The rules on resurrection are very flexible on Supernatural. Breaking Dean out of Hell took a squadron of angels and six died. Breaking Sam out of the Cage, in the deepest pits of Hell, only took Cas. Charlie and Cas were only dead a short time, Samuel Campbell was dead for 30+ years and he came back just fine*. People get resurrected when the plot needs them to be and the writers go with don't explain and maybe they won't notice.



    *There was nothing in In The Beginning to even hint that Samuel belonged in Hell AND he hadn't turned into a demon in all that time, so I'm pretty sure he was in heaven. At one point he said they guessed that whatever pulled Sam up (Cas) also pulled Samuel down. Crowley can't resurrect people without a deal and the deal with Cas was to share Purgatory. Can a demon deal even override Heaven's Gates (as they were in season 6)?

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  102. I wouldn't say flexible, more like inconsistent. Cutting through and ignoring all the continuity frak-ups, this is the best "theory" I can come up with.



    Resurrection requires a body in working condition, the soul of the resurrectee and the magical power (or spell) to bind the two together. Reapers have the power to "cut" the tie between soul and the body and to escort the souls into one of the other realms (heaven, hell or purgatory). Which means they have the corollary power of bringing the souls back and tying them back to the body (or to strengthen that life "knot" if the subject is dying but not dead).



    Demons don't have this power to begin with. But when they make a deal they get a power boost (probably from the soul they just bought) which let's them do things normally not possible - such as possessing a reaper and forcing it to do their dirty work.


    Angels have the same power as reapers to tie the soul back to the body, but they don't have the same access. So if a soul is still around and hasn't been escorted out, resurrection is an easy thing for them. But it becomes increasingly difficult once the soul has moved on depending on where it has moved on to and how well it is guarded. It is possible for them to force their way in and they can match their power to whatever is on the other side, but successful recovery is not a guarantee. Archangels and death don't have the same problem because they can probably outmatch anything in their way.



    Other resurrection methods may include spells, curses or cursed objects providing the binding power and using other means to get the soul to where resurrection can take place.



    Azazel used a reaper to resurrect Dean and I'm guessing something similar was done with Sam. Even if the said soul is in heaven, the demon possessing the reaper might have the requisite access to pull it off.



    Gabriel, being and archangel, could bring Dean out of hell whenever her wanted - which is why he was able to do the Mystery Spot routine. Same goes for Lucifer and Michael.



    Dean used a spell to resurrect Benny, but he had to get his soul first. Other curses, like the wishing coin or the one on Prometheus, might actually prevent the souls from moving on so as to make resurrection easy.



    Other angels may resurrect people easily if their souls are easily accessible - which is why a) assuming Bobby hadn't moved on with the reaper after Lucifer killed him, it was possible to bring him back, b) Charlie's vision of heaven was a reaper illusion (fits with the heaven being blocked) which is why Gadreel was able to bring her back, c) same reason why Gadreel was able to bring Cas back and d) Joshua was able to bring back Sam and Dean without any explicit permission from his superiors.



    Without that access, things could get tricky. You could apply for permission from heaven to take the soul out - which is what Cas' excuse was in the past and which was how Adam was resurrected. You could use the confusion in heaven to your advantage and steal the soul you want - which is what I believe Cas did with Samuel. You could try to force your way in with an army and risk losing fellow angels - which is what was done for Dean and then for Cas in purgatory. You try try forcing your way alone - which Cas did for Sam and which could be even more dangerous. On the other hand, you could decide that it wasn't worth the effort or the risk once the soul had moved on - which is why, I think, they chose not to bring back the people they'd lost before like Ellen, Jo, Bobby, Rufus or Kevin.

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  103. Yes, Omaha would be about a 3 hr drive if Sam drove the speed limit, and Dean said that Sam had been gone all night and had been disappearing.


    Yes, it would make sense for Eldon to run 5 miles, rather than 200. If Dean cannot track a bleeding out man within 5 miles of his home, in a town of 200 people and acres of cow pastures that ran out of the bunker five minutes before him, than he had better hang up hunting because he is no damned good at it.


    As for the weather app, my guess is that the props people thought it was a cool touch, just like Charlie's ancient code breaking tile flipping across her Apple produce placement. It looked cool.


    I don't know why you are making such a big deal of it. You thought Lebanon, I thought Omaha, and it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to the story that was told. Charlie came. She ran. She died. F I N A L L Y, we get a Winchester story for the first time this season. That makes me happy, joyous actually, whether cows are included in the scenario or not. I do bet they will be curious about the big pyre fire, though.

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  104. I hate Charlie sooooo much. I really badly want her to be killed so I can watch it over and over again. She's starting to ruin every episode she is in. I've turned off 2 different episodes with her in them because she's so unbearable.

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  105. Yes, Omaha would be about a 3 hr drive if Sam drove the speed limit, and Dean said that Sam had been gone all night and had been disappearing.

    Dean didn't say that. And disappearing for 2-3 hours can be explained. All nighters are a bit more difficult.

    Yes, it would make sense for Eldon to run 5 miles, rather than 200. If Dean cannot track a bleeding out man within 5 miles of his home, in a town of 200 people and acres of cow pastures that ran out of the bunker five minutes before him, than he had better hang up hunting because he is no damned good at it.

    Eldon stopped bleeding - that's the point. The blood trail stopped completely. If he had kept bleeding, then it wouldn't have made a difference if he ran 5 miles or 200 miles.

    As for the weather app, my guess is that the props people thought it was a cool touch, just like Charlie's ancient code breaking tile flipping across her Apple produce placement. It looked cool.

    Omaha would've looked just as cool on it as Lebanon.

    I don't know why you are making such a big deal of it. You thought Lebanon, I thought Omaha, and it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to the story that was told. Charlie came. She ran. She died.


    The devil's in the details - things like this tell us if Sam was being smart about Rowena's imprisonment, if they had a chance to save Charlie and how much blame could actually be placed on them for her death.



    If Sam hides Rowena in the Bunker's blackout zone - close enough to keep an eye on her but far enough to avoid Dean accidentally stumbling on her, then that means he has given it quite a lot of thought. If he randomly picks a spot 200 miles away, then that choice makes him look stupid.



    Assuming Charlie didn't go far after she ran, if she was initially 200 miles from the bunker, then by any measure, Cas should be much closer to her than the Winchesters when the Stynes come knocking. The Winchesters are still 3 hours away and Cas shouldn't be more than 5 minutes away. So the first thing that they should've done is to call Cas and tell him to go to the motel - Rowena had been left alone in chains before, so doing it again shouldn't be a problem and Cas could take the book with him. Any way you slice it, sending backup that's closest is the best chance they had of saving Charlie and if Cas was actually that much closer, then they really did screw up their chance to save her.

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  106. "...it means she won’t come back next season in a larger capacity and as a permanent staple."

    Or maybe it means exactly that. Coming back from Hell/Heaven would officially put Charlie among the regular unkillable crew of Winchesters, Castiel, and Crowley. From there, her star can keep on rising, until Supernatural ends and she gets her own spinoff.

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