Mastodon Mastodon Mastodon Mastodon Mastodon Supernatural - Episode 10.21 - Dark Dynasty - Sneak Peek + Producer's Preview
Sign Up


    Enable Dark Mode!

  • What's HOT
  • Premiere Calendar
  • Ratings News
  • Movies
  • YouTube Channel
  • Submit Scoop
  • Contact Us
  • Search
  • Privacy Policy
Get In Touch
 Join SpoilerTV
Support SpoilerTV
SpoilerTV.com is now available ad-free to for all premium subscribers. Thank you for considering becoming a SpoilerTV premium member!

SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

Supernatural - Episode 10.21 - Dark Dynasty - Sneak Peek + Producer's Preview

May 5, 2015

Share on Reddit


Sneak Peek


Producer's Preview
-
Sign Up for the SpoilerTV Newsletter where we talk all things TV!

127 comments:

  1. Miss SupernaturalMay 4, 2015 at 9:36 PM

    Sadly I'll have to agree with the ones thinking Charlie is going to die in this episode. :(

    ReplyDelete
  2. Sammy.WMay 4, 2015 at 9:44 PM

    MY POOR SAMMYYYY !!!! Jared was amazing in this scene!!! I love this sneak peek I cannot wait!!!!
    Charlie stop judging Sammy!!!!! he's doing everYthing he can to save his brother!!!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Sammy.WMay 4, 2015 at 10:06 PM

    OH NOOOOO Charlie's death will destroy Sam :((((((((((

    ReplyDelete
  4. Miss SupernaturalMay 4, 2015 at 10:07 PM

    I don't like it either, but it looks like it's where it's headed. :(

    ReplyDelete
  5. SyllsMay 4, 2015 at 10:08 PM

    Sam will save DEAN!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  6. Sammy.WMay 4, 2015 at 10:13 PM

    :((((((

    ReplyDelete
  7. sharonallyMay 4, 2015 at 10:17 PM

    Sam's second name is guilt so it would not be anything new.

    ReplyDelete
  8. chris684May 4, 2015 at 10:19 PM

    I don't think they're killing Charlie, for a few reasons. One of them is that the show traditionally doesn't have major deaths on the third-to-last episode (the exception of Abaddon, but I wouldn't call her major). They don't seem to break pattern when it seems to plotting out their schedule. They may hurt Charlie though. Also, if Sam was responsible for Charlie's death this early, he would stop with what he's doing with the Book of the Damned, and I think we can count on worse coming still.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Miss SupernaturalMay 4, 2015 at 10:23 PM

    Thank you, I hope you're right... Charlie being "hurt" would fit with the next episode's description as well. I prefer her being hurt over killed.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Sammy.WMay 4, 2015 at 10:35 PM

    I really hope you're right because I cannot watch Dean blaming Sam for charlie's death specially when they show Charlie as a sweet innocent girl!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  11. thesilentpoethoseaMay 4, 2015 at 10:39 PM

    For real. People should be giving Sam more support for sticking with the ONE SOLID LEAD THEY HAVE.

    ReplyDelete
  12. chris684May 4, 2015 at 10:41 PM

    Another reason is that Sam really wouldn't recover in the fandom from that, and although some of us fans talk a lot about them throwing Sam under the bus, I don't thing the writers would really do something to either brother that they couldn't recover from.


    My money is on us losing either Cas or Crowley in the finale (not by Sam but by Rowena or Metatron), and Sam starting something that will have longer-term evil consequences.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Sammy.WMay 4, 2015 at 10:42 PM

    Exactly they did this to kevin too but this time is kind of different because they show charlie as a innocent girl who always helps winchesters and never does anything wrong and i'm pretty sure they will use her death in every episode to ruin sam charactor

    ReplyDelete
  14. shandiMay 4, 2015 at 10:46 PM

    i can't wait for this episode!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Sammy.WMay 4, 2015 at 10:46 PM

    I totally agree with you
    Lets hope the major death will be crowley not cas!!!

    ReplyDelete
  16. Miss SupernaturalMay 4, 2015 at 10:52 PM

    I don't know, I think what the writers did to Sam last season was worse than Charlie dying as a consequence of discovering the book, but I agree overall.

    I hope it won't be Crowley. I know some are tired of his character, but I still love him.

    ReplyDelete
  17. gabygogoMay 4, 2015 at 10:53 PM

    It's weird seeing so many Charlie supporters on this site...

    Hi Friends!!!

    ReplyDelete
  18. chris684May 4, 2015 at 10:55 PM

    But I don't think what they did to Sam last season was intentional. Their missteps with Sam seem to be more bumbling than evil intent. In other words, I don't think they intended Sam to be wrong last season, and some of us don't think he was. He was just written very poorly and not given dialogue to appropriately represent himself.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Miss SupernaturalMay 4, 2015 at 11:00 PM

    Maybe you're right. Maybe that's because the way it affected me as a viewer.

    And I hope you're right concerning Charlie. :)

    ReplyDelete
  20. chris684May 4, 2015 at 11:11 PM

    If they kill off either Cas or Crowley, I wouldn't be surprised to see Charlie being bumped up to a regular next season.

    ReplyDelete
  21. malooseMay 4, 2015 at 11:24 PM

    No, please no! She managed to become a hated character from a loved/fun one in 5 episodes for me, I really don't like to see her more, whether she lives or dies I really don't care.
    I can see they kill off Crowley, but not Cas. He's too important to the show, his PCA, his big fanbase, his likely directorial in S11,... no, they wouldn't risk it. I hope they do better with him in the future though.
    The real question is what they're going to do with Rowena and Metatron.... Sure hope we see the last of them.

    ReplyDelete
  22. chris684May 4, 2015 at 11:28 PM

    In truth, I'm mostly indifferent to Charlie, but I'm guessing she's more popular in the general fandom than she appear on online boards. I see the issues and hope the writers got the message to dial her back a bit. But if she's interacting with both brothers, I don't mind her so much and could even see a universe where I begin to like her.

    ReplyDelete
  23. malooseMay 4, 2015 at 11:49 PM

    Yes, she has her fans, and sure the terrible writing ruined her character for me, but I don't think she's regular material, especially in this kind of show. Imagine what her bubbly persona could do to the dark show if she appears half of season. And I absolutely don't like ninja!Charlie. She can have her spin-off!

    ReplyDelete
  24. chris684May 5, 2015 at 12:11 AM

    I can't believe I'm saying this, but I could see her working better as a regular than either Cas or Crowley. Being a human hunter, she could go on MOTW hunts with Sam or Dean, giving the other actor the week off.


    I'm kind of done with both Cas and Crowley as regulars. Cas doesn't work because his journeys wandering the country alone are boring as hell, and he can't be around Sam and Dean too much with out stirring up a storm in the fandom, from both the Destiel crowd and Sam fans. Also, Cas as a hunter doesn't work if he has his angel powers because then he's much more powerful than his human counterpart and can smite everything before Sam or Dean even get near.


    Crowley doesn't work because he's also much more powerful than the Winchesters and is best as a villain. A villain, though, typically isn't around for half of the episodes of the season, so that leaves the show with having to tell a human story with him, which waters down the villainy (did I just make up a word?) of his character.


    The other advantage to having a human hunter as a regular is the hunter wouldn't need to take up so much of the myth arc episodes. Lately we've had an issue with the MOTWs being almost exclusively focused on Sam and Dean, while the mytharc episodes were split three ways between the storylines of Sam and Dean, Cas, and Crowley. Personally I think the show would do better to have the mytharc episodes more focused on Sam and Dean and the MOTWs be split with other characters.

    ReplyDelete
  25. ToniMay 5, 2015 at 12:12 AM

    I love that she calls the Bunker, Death Star.

    ReplyDelete
  26. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 12:31 AM

    They aren't going to kill Cas or Crowley off, but I am sure Charlie is on the verge of being an unannounced regular, if not announced.

    ReplyDelete
  27. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 12:32 AM

    Yeah, he's great with Charlie and Claire and Jody. So supportive and understanding.

    ReplyDelete
  28. malooseMay 5, 2015 at 12:36 AM

    LOL! I can't believe you said that either!

    I agree about weak stories for Cas and Crowley, but I think if they manage to come up with a strong plot, coupled with strong and supernatural baddies, they can work pretty well for Cas. Enough with personal journeys! I'm afraid they'll create another 'personal journey' for Charlie if she became regular!

    The matter about spreading mytharc and MotW throughout the season can't be solved by another human, the problem is with showrunner and Carver is terrible about arranging the season. I think fewer players is better, makes it easier and less confusing for him! lol

    Personally I don't want another hunter at this point, I really don't care if Js want to be more with family, this show is about the brothers, so if they think they want their off days more than their job, I prefer they just finish the show.

    ReplyDelete
  29. BoxManLockeMay 5, 2015 at 1:09 AM

    Stopped watching after Sam says "Dean's not getting any better".

    I don't know if I can handle any more of this.

    The mark story has been handled SO poorly, I just want the season to end so the show can start to focus on something new.

    ReplyDelete
  30. RobanahMay 5, 2015 at 1:56 AM

    If you catch what Carver's response during the comicon panel last year when Mark said "Try not to die in season 10" Crowley will most likely die in a battle against Rowena, that is my prediction for the finale anyway

    ReplyDelete
  31. MythAlMay 5, 2015 at 3:04 AM

    This is what Jensen said in his Variety interview:

    But Sam (Padalecki) isn’t about to give up on Dean — a decision that Ackles said will have major repercussions once Dean finds out the lengths his brother has been going to in order to try and free him of the Mark of Cain. “It obviously comes to a head; Dean figures out what’s going on behind his back and confronts Sam about it, IN A WAY THAT ONLY DEAN DOES,” he admitted. “It’s kind of the final straw — Dean knows that even if he forces Sam to stop helping Dean fight this, Sam’s not gonna stop, and Sam’s going to put himself in danger by not stopping… THAT UNFORTUNELY FORCES DEAN TO MAKE SOME PRETTY DIRE DECISIONS.”

    After reading what he said, I think this is what is going to happen: Dean will beat Sam up when he knows what he did. Something bad happens to Charlie (she is hurt or killed - it doesn't matter if she has super ninja skills, she is helpless now all of the sudden). The young Winchester will apologize but he won't change his mind about saving Dean. Next episode is named "The Prisoner", which means that Dean is going to lock Sam up, preventing him to do anything about the situation, so he can go his merry way to hunt the Stynes. All of this is Sam's fault somehow, because Dean is doing it to protect Sam and it's going to be justifiable. Remember: when Sam lies, it's really bad. When Dean lies, it's because he loves Sam so much (point taken season 9).


    I don't like to think like that, but we are watching a season which Dean tried to kill Sam, bashing his head and it was never mentioned again. But of course we need to see Dean fixing his car after how badly he treated baby when he was a demon ( and a lot of fans were all "poor baby"). I firmly believe that he is going to kill Sam in episode 23 and wherever happens people will blame the MoC and will forget that Dean got it in first place without any kind of influency.

    ReplyDelete
  32. chris684May 5, 2015 at 3:14 AM

    Well, technically speaking it's not inaccurate. Staying the same as he's always been is not getting any better.

    ReplyDelete
  33. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 3:17 AM

    Poor wobble Sam always needs defending and that defense is always "well, Dean did this in such and such a season.' For the record, I don't see it going that way at all because speculation is USELESS. We don't know what the Mark even is, what it does, or what the purpose of it is.


    We don't know what the Book is, what it does, or even if the multiple codes even get broken.


    We don't know what the Stynes connection to the Book is.


    We don't know that Charlie will get killed, kidnapped, or affected by the Book in some way. I can't see Thompson turning loose of his most perfect pet ever, and should something dire happen to her, Cas is there to resurrect and/or heal her. She may be affected by the Book and turn into the big, bad Dark!Charlie that the brothers have to save next year.


    We don't know if The Prisoner means anybody will be locked up or if it is just Rowena escaping because she is a prisoner now.


    I think there is a lot more to think about than how poor wobble Sammy might be hurt by his brother or blamed by the fans for making decisions that turn out badly for him. The character is in his 30's for God's sake. Let him grow up.

    ReplyDelete
  34. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 3:18 AM

    The MoC story hasn't even been a story yet. It's just been an idea that the writers mention a few times. All the wasted potential!

    ReplyDelete
  35. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 3:48 AM

    LOL!!!

    ReplyDelete
  36. CyanaTMay 5, 2015 at 3:49 AM

    I believe Misha & Mark are both signed for next year. I know Misha is and I believe Mark is, too So if either die in the Finale they'll be resurrected in S11. I don't think any of the 4 (J2M2) will die - Rowena might, though but all four will be in sticky situations.

    ReplyDelete
  37. CyanaTMay 5, 2015 at 4:04 AM

    I'm concerned because there's zero mention of Charlie in 10.22/10.23 and not even hints that FD was even on set until sometime during filming of upcoming 10.21 which was filmed last. So if Charlie's not seriously hurt or killed beyond Cas's ability to heal her the show needs to find a valid reason to set Dean off. Maybe the Stynes kidnap her and we won't know her fate until next season.
    In S3 when the Hellhounds came for Bela Kripke's intention was to 'cliffhang her' and bring her back in S4. But a combination of budget cuts and generally negative fan response changed his mind and so the end of 3.15 was the end of Bela.
    I can see Carver doing same thing with Charlie, leaving her fate obscure.

    ReplyDelete
  38. BoxManLockeMay 5, 2015 at 4:07 AM

    It was a cool story last season until they used it to kill Abaddon in such a lame way.

    I think the first mistake the writers made was bringing it back for another go, making the season 9 finale completely worthless in retrospect.

    We've been aware of the risks of the mark since what, episode 916 ? Almost 30 episodes later (!!), we've learned nothing new. Unbelievable.

    ReplyDelete
  39. AnnoDominiMay 5, 2015 at 4:18 AM

    What makes people think Charlie is gonna die?

    ReplyDelete
  40. CyanaTMay 5, 2015 at 4:18 AM

    OTOH, if Charlie is killed as a result of helping translate the Book Sam might think that her death/permanent harm would be wasted if Sam didn't stop looking to cure Dean. Ellen and Jo put the Winchesters in the same mindset when they stayed behind and blew themselves up to give Sam and Dean a shot at killing Lucifer.

    ReplyDelete
  41. HellboyMay 5, 2015 at 4:45 AM

    Well, Misha's "big fanbase" are also mostly the same people that harass the writers, calling them homophobes, etc... Given the ratings drop these last few episodes, and the fact that Cas' appearances in them have pretty much debunked the belief that he brings the ratings, there's that too. Him being killed off wouldn't impact a possible directing gig either.


    Frankly Misha lucky, considering some of the shit he's said about the show/writers in the past, that he hasn't been permanently killed off.

    ReplyDelete
  42. MythAlMay 5, 2015 at 4:55 AM

    I think both Sam and Dean need to grow up, but with this kind of writing it's impossible.

    ReplyDelete
  43. RobanahMay 5, 2015 at 5:40 AM

    Please no! I love the character, but Felicia Day sucks at playing a baddy!!! So please! No dark Charlie!

    ReplyDelete
  44. BoxManLockeMay 5, 2015 at 5:49 AM

    Dean beating Sam up could infuse a sense of urgency regarding the mark... IF he hadn't already punched/knocked out his brother several times over the years, sometimes for stupid-ass reasons (borrowing baby in ep 703).

    Which is something I never found endearing or justified, whatever the context (the except being season 4). It's just an being a jerk.

    ReplyDelete
  45. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:06 AM

    I think that's a very valid point. They have been searching for a cure for the MOC for about 35 (mindnumbingly boring) episodes now and this is the only lead they have come across. Dean's answer is to just let him become a demon and then just lock him up, and as ridiculous suggestions go that's a winner!

    ReplyDelete
  46. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:07 AM

    Why the sarcasm? Sam has been hugely supportive this season, especially towards Dean.

    ReplyDelete
  47. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:10 AM

    Doesn't Felicia Day have a lot of work going on outside of SPN? Surely that would prohibit her from giving full commitment to the show. (Though Collins is also a regular and this feels like his lightest ever season of SPN so maybe she will be!)

    ReplyDelete
  48. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:14 AM

    Considering that season 10 is playing out almost identical to season 4 I think this is a pretty accurate speculation. Sam hasn't been locked up by Dean yet (for his own good, of course..) so that needs to happen yet, probably in the next episode. I wonder if season 11 will be the same as season 5 then.

    ReplyDelete
  49. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:22 AM

    I believe Sam has grown up. And he will continue to do so. Sticking your head in the sand and hoping the problem will just go away is how children act. Sam knows there is a problem and it will get worse so he is trying to stop it before it comes to that. He knows there will be consequences and he's ready for that because the consequences of him doing nothing would be much worse. How much damage could an unfettered MOC do? He's making hard decisions because noone else will.

    And as much as you don't want to consider how much Sam will be hurt by his brother it is up for discussion. God knows, fans are never slow to discuss at length how much Dean is hurt by his brother. It's hilarious how quick some fans are the dismiss all the ways Dean has hurt his brother! SPN is a human story as much as anything else, therefore it should be discussed as much as anything else.

    ReplyDelete
  50. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:32 AM

    Maybe he needs to lose control and really beat the crap out of him, aka what he did to Soulless Sam in season 6. Yeah, a lot of people just brushed it off because of the 'Sam deserved it' mantra that is rampant in fandom but it did instill a certain urgency to the situation, so it might be the same here.

    This could also lead to, as many are speculating, that the SPOILER******* decision Dean makes that will also affect Sam is landing himself back in Purgatory. Dean might feel that Sam isn't safe with him around (duh, he's not) so he removes himself from the situation. This would put Sam in a terrible situation because Purgatory is where Dean is happiest. He's with his 'better brother' and he can kill as much as his heart desires, and with zero consequence and zero moral issues, which is all Dean wants really. Not only would the MOC be sated but Dean himself also really likes killing. Purgatory is probably the best place for Dean. However, Sam has learned that he must do whatever it takes, forget the consequences, 'for' Dean so he'll work to bring him back which now, Dean won't want.

    ReplyDelete
  51. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:33 AM

    This dialogue is just painfully bad. Like, poor fanfiction writing bad.

    ReplyDelete
  52. sharonallyMay 5, 2015 at 7:34 AM

    I can inset as much sarcasm as you like but if you feel Sam has not done his duty as a brother this season by all means tell us all why. After all it is not as if Dean does anything is it look at last season poor thing

    ReplyDelete
  53. sharonallyMay 5, 2015 at 7:42 AM

    Dean could do the same if that is what you think. Or do you think doing what he did last season was the act of 'growing up' why as Dean got the MOC to begin with because he cared about what he had put Sam through or because he marched off that bridge after making it about himself and his issues .

    Dean does hurt Sam far more than people are willing to admit and I see no reason why that cannot be pointed out as the fandom falls over itself the other way round. Sam is just doing what everybody wanted him to do you either want him to save Dean or you do not trying to make out he is being immature is odd frankly.

    ReplyDelete
  54. chris684May 5, 2015 at 12:05 PM

    I see Jo and Ellen's death as different because everyone was in agreement that the apocalypse needed to be stopped and stopping it was more important than everyone's lives. In this case Sam is in the minority in wanting to use the book.

    ReplyDelete
  55. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 12:09 PM

    My sarcasm comes from Sam treating Dean like a sick little rabid puppy. There is an interesting dichotomy going on and has been since Dean killed the five scumbags. Sam and Cas, Sam particularly, keep telling the audience that Dean is getting worse and how he is a ticking time bomb, but Dean has done nothing but maintain remarkable control so far. He is much better than he was last season after he got the Mark. Just recently, he was a bit cranky, but a game of mini golf and he was back to happy, happy. That makes me wonder if the audience isn't supposed to be waiting on pins and needles for Dean to explode, or if it is just Sam and Cas' paranoia that is being shown.


    The show has to address this glaring difference between what Sam is saying and what, or how, Dean actually is. If it is Dean really going to blow, then the show hasn't done even a half decent job in showing that. Perhaps, then, it isn't Dean is about to blow. Perhaps it is Sam's paranoia; something that Sam does, that drives Dean to go off.

    ReplyDelete
  56. chris684May 5, 2015 at 12:10 PM

    I don't think Dean needs much to set him off. I could envision something like someone (or the book) trying to harm Charlie (maybe wanting her as a human sacrifice) and giving her a good scare, even though the winchesters rescue her. Charlie usually departs at the end of her episode, so I'm not reading in anything there.

    ReplyDelete
  57. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 12:13 PM

    Looking for a "cure" for a curse is ridiculous, IMO, unless the Mark is a disease and not a curse. Curses are 'lifted.' Diseases are 'cured.' As writers, they should know the difference.


    And that is my problem with this whole story -- we don't know what the Mark really is, how it works, what affects it has on a person, are what the real purpose of it is. We do not even know that it is for sure only something that is evil. Maybe it is something that can be used for good, too.

    ReplyDelete
  58. chris684May 5, 2015 at 12:16 PM

    If that's the case, it would be a parallel to seasons 3 and 4 when Sam wanted to try using his powers but Dean would always shut it down before Sam even tried. That eventually forced Sam to start doing it in secret, rather than the two of them work together.

    ReplyDelete
  59. chris684May 5, 2015 at 12:19 PM

    So you're saying same old, same old?

    ReplyDelete
  60. chris684May 5, 2015 at 12:34 PM

    No idea but mark Sheppard always seems to have something going on too.

    ReplyDelete
  61. NickMay 5, 2015 at 12:56 PM

    We do know that it is having a negative effect on Dean. Regardless of whether the story is being poorly told or not, it is having an effect on him. More than once, we saw him needing to be brought back via Sam's voice, we saw him kill the houseful of men, we saw him have nightmares. That the moments of violence from Dean are so tepid could be down to the fact that the writers won't risk showing Dean doing anything overly 'bad'. However, it's there in writing that Dean is getting worse. We know from Cain that it will lead him to kill his brother, friend and whatever Crowley is to him now (surrogate father, maybe?), and we know that he can't be killed. Those are all serious things. The purpose is to create mayhem and cause death.

    I would openly laugh if they try to sell the idea that the MOC can be used for good, especially considering how Dean and many of the fans reacted to Sam using his powers to actually save lives back in season 4. Saving innocent lives is good, but that was never considered.

    ReplyDelete
  62. NickMay 5, 2015 at 1:04 PM

    No, he's not treating him like a sick little rabid puppy. He hasn't put him on lockdown or wrapped him in cotton wool. He's still hunting with him. He doesn't want him in situations where the MOC might feel the need to make an appearance. Sam is worried about him, and he has a right to be. No, the show hasn't done a decent job of showing it, but that is nothing new. They have, however, said it numerous time so it is there in canon.


    I find your last sentence to be most interesting. Sam is not responsible for Dean's actions. Dean is a big boy now. He's responsible for his own actions so if he does 'go off' then it will be on him, noone else.

    ReplyDelete
  63. percysownerMay 5, 2015 at 1:25 PM

    Could we at least TRY to remember canon here? As soon as CAS heard about the MOC and Dean becoming a demon, he wanted to put Dean down like a "rabid dog". Sam was the one who wanted to cure Dean of being a demon. Sam was the one in the first half of the season who consistently told Dean that Dean could manage the Mark. DEAN was the one who demanded Cas treat him like a rabid dog and throw him into the sun and kill him when the Mark got to strong. Sam is the only one who is NOT acting like Dean is a rabid puppy, but like someone with a condition THAT DEAN HAS ALREADY STATED HE IS AFRAID OF.

    Last season, Dean said he didn't want to become what he was becoming. If Sam wasn't trying to stop Dean as he has bouts of violence fans would be all over him like white on rice saying how Sam didn't love him enough to do anything about his actions. However, since he is trying to stop Dean before Dean reverts to something Dean doesn't want to become, without resorting to sun, throwing into, saving Dean is suddenly the WORST THING EVER! MUST HATE SAM! Demons were bad, but if Dean is going to lead them demons are good. How dare Sam interfere with Dean having fun as a demon? Jeesh!

    ReplyDelete
  64. Miss SupernaturalMay 5, 2015 at 2:48 PM

    Dean is getting worse. He's fighting it, he's trying, but he's faking happy and lying to himself. We have glimpses of it like nightmares and some acting choices (thanks to Jensen). But he knows he won't be able to fight it forever and my only complain about the clip is that Dean hasn't given up, he just didn't want to use the book because it's dangerous.

    The problem you're describing and the one I addressed above are, in my opinion, showrunner and writers issues/problems, not Sam's. It's their fault that we get confused and not shown what's happening to Dean more clearly.

    And Sam has to do something before the Mark takes hold because once it does, he becomes something Dean doesn't want to be. I don't like the lying, but for me Sam is doing the right thing and he has my full support, just like Dean had last season.

    ReplyDelete
  65. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 3:07 PM

    The season's story is what it is. We all know the writers are wannabe's that need a refresher course in Creative Writing 101, but that isn't all of it.

    There is no reason to make excuses for Sam, and particularly by pointing to 'Dean did so and so in season such and such.' Sam's story this season is Dark!Sam, and what is being shown of that story is that Sam won't choose well, isn't making good decisions, because he is desperate to save Dean. He is desperate because he has repeatedly failed in the past and has now had some epiphany that he loves Dean and cannot go on without him. Sam is being ruled by his emotions, and his hubris won't allow him to see the error in his ways until there is a cosmic disaster. We know that because none of Dean's actions to date warrant Sam's level of worry (or paranoia).



    Sam's story may not be the best story, or viewers may not like how Sam's story is going, but that IS Sam's story.

    ReplyDelete
  66. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 3:35 PM

    I think we agree that Sam's story this season is that he is desperate to save Dean. here is no reason to make excuses for Sam, and particularly by pointing to 'Dean did so and so in season such and such,' or "Dean said this and that is such and such a season." The fact is that Sam's story this season is Dark!Sam, and what is being shown of that story is that Sam won't isn't making good decisions, BECAUSE he is desperate to save Dean, and he is desperate because he has repeatedly failed in the past and has now had some epiphany that he loves Dean and cannot go on without him. What is being shown is that Sam is being ruled by his emotions, and his hubris won't allow him to see the error in his ways until there is a dire, cosmic consequences. We know that because Dean's actions to date do not warrant Sam's level of worry.


    What we can assume, and it's only speculation, is that something will set Dean off and that will likely be driven by whatever Sam's actions causes.

    Sam's story may not be the best story, or some viewers may not like how Sam's story is going, but that IS Sam's story and there really is no reason to make excuses for why that story is. It just is.

    ReplyDelete
  67. percysownerMay 5, 2015 at 3:45 PM

    Nice job totally ignoring the fact that you are completely and totally misrepresenting what has happened ON SCREEN in order to make Sam the bad guy.

    I said that CAS is the one who has repeatedly treated Dean like a "rabid puppy" to quote YOU. I gave examples, plural. You ignore that, so you can bash Sam. Obviously you have no intention of actually watching the show on the slight chance that you might have to admit that Sam is not the ultimate evil, so good for you and your illusions. But either respond to what I posted, or just give it a bye.

    ReplyDelete
  68. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 5:00 PM

    You are being willfully childish by trying to devolve the conversation into a very basic Sam -vs- Dean argument and on a personal level. How is it bashing Sam to discuss Sam's story? You follow me on more than this board and you know that I quite like Sam this season. I follow you on more than this board and you, and a couple of others, continually rise to the Sam's defense, regardless of what is being discussed.

    Here is the facts of SAM'S STORY as I see it:

    Cain was changed by Colette's unconditional love, and neither Sam nor Cas is Dean's Collette, but I am not discussing Cas or Cain here -- I am discussing Sam's STORY -- and I repeat, not Sam's character, the STORY.

    Are you with me so far????

    Sam is lying, to himself and to Dean, to cover a number of questionable acts -- those acts driven by his need to save his brother.

    First off, he is using all of their friends and has; therefore, put all of those friends in danger; i.e.,

    Cas has betrayed Heaven and lost his only friend there, and not only that. Mutation, who killed Dean once already, is in the wind with the demon tablet. Something is going to go down because of that.

    Bobby is in Heaven punishment for his aid in helping Dean.

    Charlie, already hunted and injured in her search for the Book, is now being put in even greater danger; maybe even life-threatening danger.

    Secondly, Sam gave a powerful ancient dark spell book to the most evil witch he knows, a witch who tried to kill Dean and it was only BECAUSE OF THE MARK that Dean didn't die.


    Thirdly, Rowena, known by Sam to be an enemy of his brother, tells Sam she needs yet another book in order to help remove the Mark, another dark book that a bad warlock, Magnus, placed under special lock and key because he thought it is so very dangerous. As a result, Sam got his second civilian killed and endangered himself and Dean to the point of death. Again, Dean is only alive because of the Mark and Sam is only alive because of Dean.


    These are decisions that Sam made ALL ON HIS OWN (that pesky little free will thing) out of his desperation to save Dean and the potential for something catastrophic is there and looming. None of those decisions on Sam's part have anything to do with what Dean may or may not become or any actions Dean has taken so far. That is the lie Sam is telling himself as he digs a deeper hole.


    Understanding Sam's story on this level, I think, would make the season more enjoyable for you, but I see that your happy place is feeling sorry for Sam, thinking the writers and half the fandom hate Sam, and enjoy a wobble Sam, so I will end this conversation by saying enjoy your happy place.

    ReplyDelete
  69. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 5:16 PM

    But here is the problem with that, Nick -- the Mark needs sated and going on hunts and sating it by killing monsters (vampires, for instance) is the correct way to do that; not lockdown or keeping him out of hunts.


    I don't know what last sentence you are talking about, but; yes, Dean is responsible for his own actions, and he has made his decision to keep hunting, to do as much good as he can until it is too late...and he knows and has acknowledged his Plan B is not a good plan. We have not been shown what will become of that knowing and acknowledging that yet.

    ReplyDelete
  70. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 5:19 PM

    I don't know if it is a parallel or just a callback to Sam's demon blood story. The Mark is like Dean's demon blood, but the sneaking and lying is Sam's, so I am thinking more of a callback than a parallel.

    ReplyDelete
  71. NblMay 5, 2015 at 5:20 PM

    God that would be great.

    ReplyDelete
  72. percysownerMay 5, 2015 at 5:25 PM

    My post was in response to a very specific issue in your comment, that Sam was treating Dean like a "rabid puppy" the one issue you flat out refuse to even address. Bye Felicia!

    ReplyDelete
  73. chris684May 5, 2015 at 5:32 PM

    We were talking about not having enough faith/trust that the other brother could handle the blood/MOC (assuming that that is what we're being shown with the Mark). Dean did find that faith in Sam later in season 5 in agreeing to support Sam taking in Lucifer, but not until after the damage was done. The parallels with the lying/ hiding things would be last season with Dean/Gadreel.

    ReplyDelete
  74. BoxManLockeMay 5, 2015 at 6:46 PM

    Wait, we "know" that Dean will kill Sam, Cass and Crowley ?
    Because a murderous nutjob said so seven episodes ago, and there's been absolutely nothing to back up that claim then (not even a flashbacks these writers are so fond of) ?
    As for the nightmares, I'd be more worried if they didn't have any considering all they've been through.

    You're absolutely right that it's in the writing, though. It's all tell, no show.
    As a result, I find it impossible to take it seriously and therefore to be invested in Sam's quest to crap on everything he said last season.

    ReplyDelete
  75. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:24 PM

    Isn't Dean still sneaking around and lying as well?

    ReplyDelete
  76. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:32 PM

    The problem is that if the mark needs to kill then how long before the need to kill escalates? This is as it was with the demon blood story, Sam went from drops to carrying around a bottle to draining demons. Violence feeds violence. Cain choose not to kill, to not use the blade, to take himself away from those situations.



    And I agree, it's unknown if the writers will ever address it. This could be one of those 'throw it to the wall and see what sticks' storylines they are so well versed in. They have convoluted the history of the MOC to such an extent that there are some things about it that will probably never get answered.

    ReplyDelete
  77. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:34 PM

    What be a good decision, Ginger? His hands are tied. Do nothing and people will die. Do something and people will die. Tell Dean and people will die.

    ReplyDelete
  78. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:39 PM

    Sam isn't lying to himself. He knows there will be consequences, there always are. And he will face up to those consequences as he always does. The alternative is doing nothing, waiting till the problem gets worse and then cleaning up the mess. Is this a better option?


    Bobby is being punished (possibly) for the choices that he made. Castiel, Charlie etc, they are doing what they are doing because there is a need to. Dean's choice ensured that. Dean is their friend, they are helping him. If Dean had not taken on the MOC then there would be no need to try and rid him of the MOC.

    ReplyDelete
  79. NickMay 5, 2015 at 7:45 PM

    That is what Cain told us. Dean heard it and, at some level, he must believe it. And there has to be some sort of gravitas to the MOC because thus far, it's lame And while the nightmares are absolutely pathetic, they were there to suggest that Dean is getting worse. If Dean was having nightmares the whole time because of all they've been through, then that particular nightmare would not have gotten time.


    I believe last season that Sam said, in the same circumstances, he wouldn't do the same thing. This isn't the same circumstance, and Sam isn't doing the same. It would, however, be wickedly interesting if Sam did have Dean possessed as a way to prevent the MOC controlling Dean!

    ReplyDelete
  80. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 8:23 PM

    Lying about what, the supposed prophesy Cain told him? There is no indication that Cain was a prophet or a seer; only that he believed Dean was living his life in reverse, which Dean fervently denied he would do.


    We also don't know what exactly the Mark is, how it affects its bearer, or even if it is a tool that is good or evil. All we know about the Mark is that it wants to be sated, and we don't know how the First Blade fits into that; whether that is the addictive tool or not.


    What is Dean sneaking around doing? I think he has been pretty upfront and honest with Sam. He's told him a few times that he needs to hunt, and he invited him to join him on the vamp hunt. He told him the Book would have Biblical consequences.

    ReplyDelete
  81. NickMay 5, 2015 at 8:35 PM

    Yes, what Cain told him. Regardless of whether or not it actually happens, those people who could be killed need to be told.


    We also know the mark wants to kill.


    And here in the thing, he's not telling them about what Cain said, but the book has Biblical consequences (Taking on the MOC has biblical consequences!!) Why is he believing and acting on one and not the other?
    I know you don't want it mentioned, Ginger, but Dean spent more than half of last season sneaking around . Ditto with the season before that. Fans deemed both those necessary. Sam is sneaking around this season (after he was the one who wasn't for the last two seasons). Why is he doing this? Because it is necessary. So long may he sneak! He certainly learned from the best in that regard.

    ReplyDelete
  82. CyanaTMay 5, 2015 at 9:07 PM

    I'm not saying I want Charlie to die, I was trying to think of a similar 'case' and present a possible link to Sam's mindset. Cas and Charlie may have misgivings but nothing in the promos or description say they refuse to help. If Dean gets much worse (and yes, it hasn't been shown well) how long - as others have pointed out - will the Mark remain sated until it pushes Dean to kill friendlies. As Cain noted in 10.14 'The Mark thirsts for all kinds'. The Book of the Dead thus far has presented as the only option for removing the Mark. Maybe there's a notation in the Demon Tablet but that's not an option - even if Sam/Dean/Cas had in their possession none of them know how to translate it.

    ReplyDelete
  83. CyanaTMay 5, 2015 at 9:16 PM

    Yeah, I'm not 100% sure about Mark but I am about Misha. I have zero idea what the show will do with Cas next year. He just regained most of his Grace, so if he hunts with the boys, assuming neither becomes super-powered themselves next season, once again the show has to find him a separate arc to take him away from instaHealing the brothers (assuming the MoC is gone but something else takes its place.)

    ReplyDelete
  84. chris684May 5, 2015 at 9:43 PM

    No, I wasn't thinking that you were wishing Charlie dead. TBH, if they killed her, I wouldn't shed any tears. I just don't think they will. My earlier comment was thinking about Sam's perspective. Motivated to save Dean or not, if Charlie died in this next episode as a direct result of helping him, that would stop him cold and that would be end of his "dark" arc. It was different with Ellen and Jo because their deaths just made the Winchesters even more motivated to follow through. We'll find out tomorrow night I guess.

    ReplyDelete
  85. ivanMay 5, 2015 at 10:24 PM

    "Sam and Dean are like my brothers, i love them" I LOVE THAT LINE SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  86. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 10:32 PM

    Cain told us, and I do believe that it is on Dean's mind, but he fervently denied it would ever happen and his past history is that he has gone to extreme lengths to NOT kill Sam.


    As you say, there should be some gravitas to the Mark, but the entire Mark story has only ran in the background as a plot device to drive Sam's story to save Dean. The only gravitas the Mark has so far is that we know it will not let Dean die and that he occasionally has PMS episodes.


    Dean slaughtered four or five thugs who were trying to kill him. One of them hit him in the head with something and we don't know if Dean was unconscious or not, but the Mark took over and saved him.


    No sign of the Mark when Claire tired to get him killed.


    Dean has a nightmare, and he goes out and hustles a college kid at pool. The three jump him, but the Mark didn't take over. Rowena tires to blast him, the Mark saves him.


    Dean goes to Purgatory under a suicide spell, the Mark saves him.


    Dean bangs a guy's head on a table, doesn't give the guy even a bloody nose, and he is benched because he supposedly snapped. That PMS episode was easily taken care of with a game of mini-golf and he's right back to himself.


    An angel is kicking his ass. No sign of the Mark, so he must not have been in danger of dying.


    It may be lame writing, but as far as the audience is concerned, what Dean has done and is doing does not warrant the level of Sam's worry, and that is the interesting dichotomy as to what is going to happen....if the writers realize that they have created it, that is. They had better, because it is a huge hole in the story that is noticeably there; i.e., Sam is freaking out, but why...because they have Sam SAY that Dean is getting worse?

    ReplyDelete
  87. teamwinchestergirlMay 5, 2015 at 10:34 PM

    I think Cas could just go and help his angel buddies, I'm so not interested in seeing him anymore.

    ReplyDelete
  88. AnnoDominiMay 5, 2015 at 10:49 PM

    Jeremy Carver.....great....*sleeps*

    ReplyDelete
  89. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 10:59 PM

    There you go going back a half a decade to make a Sam/Dean comparison and alluding to the fact that the writers favor Dean. It is silly to think that the writers overtly favor either lead. What benefit to them would that be? It is also silly to say that fans reacted badly to Sam saving lives with his powers. That whole issue was that he chose Ruby over his brother and broke the tenant of the entire show -- the idea that family was something that could always be counted on and the brother bond is what made the two of them strong.

    We do not know that the purpose of the Mark is to create mayhem and cause death. Cain, after meeting Collette did not do any of that for over 150 years. Dean has had the Mark for 35 months now, and he has not either. What role did the First Blade play in that?

    Cain, in fact, once he got the "lust" back went about killing his seed in some screwed up reasoning that he was saving the world from them. His reason for killing Abel in the beginning was because he thought he was saving him from an eternity in Hell. Good intentions, bad outcome. Remind you of anyone; like Sam this season maybe?

    Why would you laugh at Dean being possessed...because Dean had Sam possessed? I would find a tit-for-tat story kind of pathetic, but that is not to say these writers won't do it.

    ReplyDelete
  90. NickMay 5, 2015 at 11:19 PM

    Ginger, I don't know what comment of mine you're replying to with the first part of your comment. If it's the lying and sneaking about thing, Dean was doing that this season and last season. Not just 5 seasons ago.

    Fans reacted badly to the use of the powers, because Dean reacted badly to them. Fans also reacted badly to Sam going with Ruby but many of them have forgotten that Sam asked Dean to go with them and Dean said no. Sorry, but Deans feelings are not more important than trying to save the world. Family should also be counted on to do what's right by family. Dean didn't do that when he made the crossroads deal.

    Dean has killed plenty of people with the blade. Often its been sadistic overkill.

    The good intentions, bad outcome also reminds me of Dean last season and this season.

    I would laugh at the irony of it. Plus, it's not as if possession is s big deal, right??

    In relation to your constant references to 'silly', I believe you were a very vocal voice in the not too recent past about how the writers favoured 'Special Snowflake Sammy' and they disliked Dean because, per you, they only ever wrote for Sam. Were those comments, and long discussions about same that you were active in, 'silly'?

    ReplyDelete
  91. GingerMay 5, 2015 at 11:41 PM

    Puking at the moment. "Sam and Dean are like my brothers. I love them." WTH kind of dialogue is that. All my hopes are dashed for the season. Charlie is NOT going to die. Oh well, three episodes left and the season is over, thank the stars. I cannot stand this herd of truly atrocious characters showcased these days.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Miss SupernaturalMay 5, 2015 at 11:44 PM

    Funny, this line was what made me sure she IS going to die, lol. Maybe because it reminded me of Kevin's death.

    ReplyDelete
  93. BoxManLockeMay 5, 2015 at 11:53 PM

    Totally agree. It's common practice in to give a recurring character a lot of focus or attachment to the main cast right before offing them. Carver's done that with Meg too.

    ReplyDelete
  94. LiseMay 6, 2015 at 2:22 AM

    Please Dean a demon again and bad, BAD DEMON. Playing the currency! 👿👿

    ReplyDelete
  95. LiseMay 6, 2015 at 2:27 AM

    Nooooooooo Cas and Crowley Nooooooo 😶😱🙀

    ReplyDelete
  96. percysownerMay 6, 2015 at 2:33 AM

    Cas will expend all or most of his Grace saving Dean from the Mark. Sam will be out getting coffee. Cas will, once again, have to learn to live with being human, until something happens that gives him his Grace back. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Sammy.WMay 6, 2015 at 3:35 AM

    I like Crowley too but if i have to choose between Cas and Crowley well i will choose Crowley to die
    But i hope both of them survive
    Killing Rowena and Metatrone is the best idea for the finale!!!

    ReplyDelete
  98. SeanMay 6, 2015 at 7:23 AM

    I'm thinking Castiel might die this season. He wouldn't stay dead, of course, but he been remarkably pointless this season. The finishing off of the Novak storyline does bring a bit of finality to the character.

    ReplyDelete
  99. SeanMay 6, 2015 at 7:25 AM

    Lying and sneaking around is what Sam and Dean do 24/7. It's not exactly something to get up in arms about.

    ReplyDelete
  100. SeanMay 6, 2015 at 7:28 AM

    There is noone making excuses for Sam. There is no good decision here . There is only bad and worse. The only bad decision made in this entire storyline was Dean's inexplicable decision to take on the MOC in the first place. That is what created the domino effect to what is happening now. Ditto with Dean's demon deal in season 2. It kicked off a chain of events, the repercussions of which lasted 3+ seasons. Sure, Sam also made his own decisions, but had Dean not sold his soul then those decisions couldn't have been made.

    ReplyDelete
  101. SeanMay 6, 2015 at 7:33 AM

    The MOC has dictated the actions of pretty much all the characters since Dean took it on so it is definitely not being told in the background.


    I believe one of those 'thugs who was trying to kill him' was tied to a chair.


    As far as you are concerned, there are plenty of members of the audience who think that Sam's worry is justified. Sam is freaking out because Dean took on a brother (and more) killing mark. Dean is worried about it. He has said so to Sam more than once. Should Sam stop worrying because Dean later says something else?

    ReplyDelete
  102. SeanMay 6, 2015 at 7:41 AM

    What would be a good decision, Ginger? Doing nothing but what Dean says. That's what he did when he believed Dean died at the end of season 8. This is identical to the season 8 criticism of Sam when the exact same posters were lynching him for not doing what they are lynching him FOR doing this season!

    ReplyDelete
  103. fazziemodoMay 6, 2015 at 2:10 PM

    Can I just say in that one sentence I have fallen in love Rowena.


    Charlie trying to intimidate a 300 year old chained up witch by telling Rowena that the boys are her brothers and Rowena cuts her down. No threat, no meaness in her voice, she is the prisoner and she just used the cold hard truth to make Charlie feel two inches tall!


    Thank god they took Charlie off Thompson and made her conversation with another female. Her dorky powers of awesome don't seem to work on another adult female who she isn't hitting on.

    ReplyDelete
  104. lala2May 6, 2015 at 6:45 PM

    I agree that the MOC story is being poorly told. We are not actually seeing, or let me say, I'm not seeing Dean behave any worse w/the Mark than he has w/o it. IMO, this has been a "non-story" so I do find Sam's desperation to save Dean weird. I see no problem w/Dean so there is no urgency to this entire thing. The whole story is colossal failure IMO.
    That said, I don't fault Sam or Cas for their reactions. I fault Carver and his team of writers.

    ReplyDelete
  105. lala2May 6, 2015 at 6:50 PM

    I just wish we were seeing Dean doing something worthy of all Sam's worry and concern.
    The MOC story is boring to me. One nightmare? Killing some rapists and human traffickers? Slamming a head on a desk? I don't know. None of those actions mean anything to me. All I see is Dean being Dean.
    The writing for this story has been awful IMO. They don't mind showing Sam making bad choices, but they refuse to show Dean doing anything slightly controversial! It's ridiculous.

    ReplyDelete
  106. lala2May 6, 2015 at 6:54 PM

    But is it necessary? Again, I'm not blaming Sam here, but why are the writers having him lie about trying to find a cure for the MOC? Is there a reason Dean can't know what he's doing?
    It just seems unnecessary and a way to throw Sam under the bus - yet again.

    ReplyDelete
  107. lala2May 6, 2015 at 6:57 PM

    He doesn't have to die though. He could just go back to Heaven and show up once in a while!

    ReplyDelete
  108. lala2May 6, 2015 at 6:58 PM

    Ugh . . . M2 are wasted on this show.

    ReplyDelete
  109. lala2May 6, 2015 at 6:59 PM

    I hope something sets him off. The show just might get interesting if that happened. Haha!

    ReplyDelete
  110. NickMay 6, 2015 at 7:06 PM

    I think it is. Dean doesn't want him doing this so if he knew then he would find a way to stop him. Why Dean doesn't want to get rid of the MOC, I don't know.


    I don't think Sam is being thrown under a bus. I think his actions are perfectly understandable. Are people complaining and dumping on him? Yes. But they'd be doing that regardless of what he did, even if he did nothing.

    ReplyDelete
  111. NickMay 6, 2015 at 7:10 PM

    That's always been a problem with the show, and it was a speculation that many had when the MOC/Demon Dean storyline was first introduced. The fear was that the storyline would be a dead duck because the writers won't show Dean doing anything overly controversial. Those people were proved right!

    ReplyDelete
  112. Ambar Moreno CandelasMay 6, 2015 at 10:11 PM

    I can't wait!!! I don't like Charlie but I don't want that she die. My poor baby Sammy, SAVE YOUR BROTHER, YOU CAN DO IT!

    ReplyDelete
  113. GingerMay 6, 2015 at 10:12 PM

    It has been a non-story, lilac. I have not seen this supposed 'inner struggle' to control the monster inside consistently at all. Of course, it is hard to be consistent, I guess, when the Winchesters are special guest stars in other characters' stories for the majority of the season. We have seen a couple of outbursts, a couple of "I'm tired moments and worried stares into a mirror, a lot of "I'm going to fight it," and a lot of Sam and Cas saying, "He's getting worse."

    According to Carver, we are NOW going to see Dean getting worse this episode. We will see, but it is pretty hard to believe in that when it just pops up a couple of episodes before the season is over. There should have been a slow build-up with unrelenting pressure with suspense and tension being built to make it an interesting story.

    ReplyDelete
  114. CyanaTMay 6, 2015 at 10:25 PM

    Ginger, I agree that the 'language' used by show is inaccurate. The Mark is a curse but as you said curses have to be lifted or broken. Jacob Styne said there is a spell in the Book of the Damned to remove the Mark. That's why Sam switched it and gave to it Rowena to translate. (I'm skipping details obviously for brevity). Sam, Dean and Cas have all referred to removing the Mark being equivalent to curing the Mark.
    I would be shocked if the MoC could be used for 'good' although Dean's used the minor influences shown to 'good purpose' so far, his kills being confined to demons or bad humans. I know you dislike comparing seasons but Dean's MoC is very little different than Sam's demon blood drinking. I think Nick said it - that Sam's DB addiction didn't start overnight, it progressed. And even though Sam was 'saving host's from possession the show never, ever presented his methods as being 'good', and of all the characters who knew eventually of his ability only Bobby wanted to put them to good use. Cain became a demon and demonic powers should never be 'good'.

    ReplyDelete
  115. lala2May 6, 2015 at 10:35 PM

    Yeah . . . I remember stating last year that I had a feeling the DD arc wouldn't go anywhere b/c I doubted the writers would allow Dean to do anything controversial or interesting. And that's what happened w/DD and the MOC. It's been a big ball of nothing IMO.

    ReplyDelete
  116. CyanaTMay 6, 2015 at 11:00 PM

    I agree and disagree - I'm 'mercurial'. lol. (Not much of a Charlie fan either but I don't want her to die a gruesome death just so show can maybe have their 'Kevin parallel). I do see your point.

    My primary question is why did Show possibly cause more damage to Sam's character by having him do such shady actions and involve both evil (Rowena) and good (Cas/Charlie) characters in his plan to remove the Mark if Sam was just going to back off and accept that he tried and failed miserably in 10.21 (or 10.22 when Sam's navel-gazing) and only really pissed Dean off as the final result.

    If Sam backs off by 10.22 and just lets whatever happens to Dean 'happen' by itself without Sam's help/interference - I reiterate - why did the show even develop this 'shady Sam storyline when all he really needed to do to be considered a loving, supportive brother is just 'be there' to talk Dean off ledges when Dean would invariably get overly agro from time to time? Frustrating and largely rhetorical.

    Your edit is interesting. The only 'dead' person I think of who would possibly 'know more' is Charlie if she doesn't get the chance to tell Sam how to remove the Mark.

    ReplyDelete
  117. CyanaTMay 6, 2015 at 11:02 PM

    Definitely after seeing the Carver preview - 'this chick is toast' (very likely). Charlie used the B + L words. "Brothers" and "love". Never good words for a character to refer to the Winchesters.

    ReplyDelete
  118. CyanaTMay 6, 2015 at 11:06 PM

    I wish I could be as confident, chris :( Maybe - the good scare causes her to lose her memories and be useless as hunter; from the way Charlie talked in 10.18 she considers herself a fulltime hunter now and accepts hunters' dire fates.

    ReplyDelete
  119. CyanaTMay 6, 2015 at 11:14 PM

    Yeah, likely, lol, and especially after reading the new EW interview posted today when JA tells the interviewer JP/Sam will do more crying (if he's not messing with the fans.) I don't 'read' the synopsis this way but I do think the finale might not end well for Sam supporters.

    ReplyDelete
  120. chris684May 6, 2015 at 11:51 PM

    We'll be crying more :(

    ReplyDelete
  121. chris684May 7, 2015 at 12:11 AM

    I was thinking Abel, but your interpretation is sobering.

    ReplyDelete
  122. lala2May 7, 2015 at 12:31 PM

    I guess what I'm saying is it shouldn't matter if Dean doesn't want Sam searching for a cure. Sam should do it anyway - out in the open. He shouldn't be hiding that he's looking for a cure. I'm not sure how Dean could stop him anyway. It would be like S3 when Sam was searching for a way to save Dean from the CRD.
    I just see this as more manufactured angst/conflict for Sam and Dean and a way to make Sam look bad. Dean doesn't even seem all that jazzed about the MOC - in my eyes at least - so I don't think he'd freak out if Sam were looking for a cure. This story just simply isn't doing it for me.

    ReplyDelete
  123. CyanaTMay 7, 2015 at 8:38 PM

    I would love to have Abel 'guest' on the show; several of us have been discussing on & off since First Born how inclusive it is to have only one person's perspective of events - Cain's - and since Cain is a 'Dean associated character'- there is a almost a 'show-nurtured tendency' for the fans to believe as the truth anything that Dean believes is the truth.
    But now having seen 10.21 and Charlie was killed by the Stynes I think there is some more evidence of a ghost!Charlie trying to make contact, maybe in the season finale, maybe early next season. Before she was killed she uploaded (or maybe sent) files to herself (I think, have to rewatch). If she sent files to her 'cloud' then she may be anchored 'earthside' by her upload and ghost!her can continue to be of some help.

    ReplyDelete
  124. chris684May 7, 2015 at 9:05 PM

    Oh god, ghost Bobby Charlie to unscramble the clues left behind?

    ReplyDelete
  125. CyanaTMay 7, 2015 at 10:54 PM

    I think the storyline is pointing that way. I must rewatch but I think Charlie was sending the files to herself, not the Winchesters. She had discovered something like a 'Rosetta stone' in her searches for various combinations of similar symbols and if she emailed the Winchesters without going into detail (time she knew she did not have) they would have been clueless. Sam would know that 'Charlie's' info was Book related and I assume Rowena had made some progress in using Nadya's codex to show Sam, so would have probably recognized some of interim decoding but that's it.
    My understanding - not confirmed due to lack of my own time - is FD's Supernatural Fans have been dogpiling Jim Michael's twitter account and JM has been defending himself with the standard 'dead isn't always dead on Supernatural' and you pointed out that Sam used a variant of a similar speech to Claire in 10.20. Maybe the show will use a creative way of resurrectioning Charlie-in-her-body next season or maybe FD will appear as a ghost.

    ReplyDelete
  126. GingerMay 7, 2015 at 11:58 PM

    She uploaded the files to the Winchesters. That probably means Sam.

    ReplyDelete
  127. CyanaTMay 8, 2015 at 12:36 AM

    Thank you :)

    ReplyDelete

NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.