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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

POLL : What did you think of Grimm - Headache?

9 May 2015

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146 comments:

  1. Price9 May 2015 at 02:02

    Kill them all Nick.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Rosember9 May 2015 at 02:03

    Next time on grimm: Team Grimm vs Team Royals

    ReplyDelete
  3. James9 May 2015 at 02:03

    1) "Nooooooo!" and multiply that to 5.


    2) Sean is Jack, Jack is Sean. Oh and Sean Hayes played Jack. :D

    ReplyDelete
  4. Morrigan_25759 May 2015 at 02:03

    Juliette needs to die.

    New Royal guy is hot. Trubel! Love her.

    ReplyDelete
  5. arrowshieldfan9 May 2015 at 02:04

    Don't tell me who died but someone did right?

    ReplyDelete
  6. TheRandomOne9 May 2015 at 02:07

    The season finale synopsis makes it sound like Nicks mom is alive - "Grimm"
    season 4 finale sees Nick (David Giuntoli) hell bent on getting revenge
    against the Royals after his a shocking discovery. He will take the
    fight against the Royals together with Trubel (Jacqueline Toboni) and
    his mother Kelly (Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio)

    ReplyDelete
  7. Price9 May 2015 at 02:07

    Yes someone died.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Rosember9 May 2015 at 02:10

    you got the wrong synopsis or something since the one i read said:
    A HORRIFYING DISCOVERY SETS NICK ON A WAR PATH - JACQUELINE
    TOBONI AND NICO EVERS-SWINDELL GUEST STAR - On the heels of a shocking
    discovery, Nick (David Giuntoli) is hell bent on getting revenge and taking the
    fight to the Royals with help from Trubel (guest star Jacqueline Toboni).
    Meanwhile, Juliette's (Bitsie Tulloch) alliance continues to lead her down a
    dark path.Russell Hornsby, Silas Weir Mitchell, Sasha Roiz, Reggie Lee, Bree
    Turner and Claire Coffee also star.

    ReplyDelete
  9. AvonleaMist9 May 2015 at 02:10

    That was truly heartbreaking at the end. And very well done - we went from success with the Captain to Trubel's arrival to the devastating end. When Trubel was walking down the sidewalk with that Royal lackey following her I was grinning because I figured we knew what was going to happen to him. How much faster than normal came we make next Friday arrive. Go get them, Trubel and Nick. Bitter end coming.

    ReplyDelete
  10. TheRandomOne9 May 2015 at 02:11

    That one makes more sense lol

    ReplyDelete
  11. TheRandomOne9 May 2015 at 02:12

    If Juliette survives the finale. That will be fucking bullshit

    ReplyDelete
  12. TheRandomOne9 May 2015 at 02:13

    Somebody do a 10 hour version of Nick screaming no on Youtube

    ReplyDelete
  13. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 02:15

    Even though all the major plot points of this episode were either obvious or practically spoiled beforehand, it was still fun to watch. That's an achievement in and of itself.

    ReplyDelete
  14. elle j.9 May 2015 at 02:16

    I guess the destruction of Juliette to elevate Adalind is complete. Juliette didn't kill Kelly, but she layed the trap so Kenneth could do the dirty work. This is bad writing because Kelly wouldn't have gone back to Portland and not touched base with Nick first. She wouldn't have fallen so easily into the Royal's trap.

    I rolled my eyes so hard when Rosalee said about Juliette "Kill the bitch!" The double standard on this show is incredible. Did anyone say "Kill the bastard!" when Nick was possessed in a zombie state and killed the man at the bar. Did anyone say "Kill the bastard!" when Renard was possessed by Jack the Ripper and murdered the Wesen prostitutes. No. In both cases Nick and Renard were cured and absolved of their crimes because they weren't in control of their actions. Not only that, the gang tampered with evidence so that the murders couldn't be traced back to either Nick or Renard. So why isn't anyone understanding that Juliette is possessed by the Hexenbeist and not in control of HER actions. I guess it only counts if the person in question goes after one of the gang. If the victims are strangers, then it's okay.

    At this point, it isn't going to matter if Juliette overcomes the Hexenbeist to kill every single Royal and save Diana. The damage is done. After the season finale, I believe I'm done.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Monique759 May 2015 at 02:17

    Enjoyed the episode, but I had already figured out the captain was being possessed by Jack and who the death would be. I did miss the first few minutes because of a work call, so I missed the almost shooting of Monroe. Don't see how Juliette can come back from this.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 02:21

    The hexenbiest-human relationship is symbiotic. Juliette isn't controlled by it. Influenced, sure but her decisions are still all her own.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Isidra9 May 2015 at 02:25

    Is she really possessed though? I mean there was definitely a change in behavior, but it doesn't seem as though hexenbiests are truly possessed. Adalind certainly was as vile as ever when she lost her hexenbiest nature, then got it back.

    Nick was mindless when he killed the man at the bar (and arguably it was even self defense, as the dude pulled a knife), what happened here did not appear to be mindless.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Percy9 May 2015 at 02:34

    AMAZING EPISODE! GRIMM IS KILLING IT THIS SEASON!

    ReplyDelete
  19. elle j.9 May 2015 at 02:34

    I don't think it's a symbiotic situation for two reasons. First, Juliette was made into a Hexenbeist. This Wesen creature was forced into her without her knowledge or consent. Also, how many months did we see Juliette fight the darkness until the Hexenbeist became too strong and she couldn't fight it anymore. When Nick confronted her in jail, Juliette wasn't hiding her transformation any more and was taunting him. When Nick screamed at her, "Stop it!" ... Juliette's reply was, "I can't!".

    The past rules regarding Hexenbeists don't apply when it comes to Juliette. Henrietta said she's never seen a more powerful Hexenbeist than Juliette. Even Monroe acknowledged that he's never seen a case like Juliette's before.

    In the end it doesn't matter though. The writers wanted to destroy Juliette so Adalind's redemption would be that much easier.

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  20. Lorein9 May 2015 at 02:40

    I hope NIck or Trubel take off Juliette's head. Time for her to go.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 02:41

    1. How the hexenbiest got there has no influence on how a symbiotic relationship works
    2. If you'd like to pick and choose Juliette quotes, I can parrot back all the times she said she likes what she is and doesn't need to be fixed.
    3. Regardless of her power, Grimm has never given any indication that someone's personality can be lost to a Hexenbiest. Anything to the contrary is unfounded speculation at best.

    ReplyDelete
  22. migotka219 May 2015 at 02:41

    Maybe it wasn't "I can't". Maybe it was more like "I don't want to". They wanted to help her and she had a way out but she DECIDED to destroy the potion just like that. And she blames every person around when in fact she decided back then to help Nick. It's her choice.

    ReplyDelete
  23. elle j.9 May 2015 at 02:41

    I personally consider it a form of possession. Juliette didn't become a Hexenbeist willingly and fought the dark nature of this Wesen creature until it consumed her. Renard realized there was something wrong with him and fought it until Jack became stronger and stronger to the point he forced Renard to commit the murders he so desperately wanted to, but couldn't. That's not much different than what Juliette is going through. Only Juliette hasn't actually killed anyone. She did lay the trap for Kenneth to kill Kelly though ... and for that Juliette will never be forgiven by the gang, Nick, or the viewers. There is no redemption for Juliette, so I think the second death on this show will be her.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Rosember9 May 2015 at 02:43

    Well Juliette send an email to nick's mother saying that he was in trouble so that is one reason why she probably didn't contact nick. Also in your examples both of them really show that they don't have controlled over their bodies and don't remember what happen, in Juliette case she really knows what she is doing and she can control her actions.

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  25. AvonleaMist9 May 2015 at 02:47

    Alrighty

    ReplyDelete
  26. elle j.9 May 2015 at 02:51

    Eventually, Nick did remember killing that man. At this point, Renard doesn't remember his actions as Jack. Juliette does remember her actions, but that doesn't mean she is in control of them. Juliette's humanity has been completely suppressed if not destroyed by the Hexenbeist.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Isidra9 May 2015 at 02:54

    Well, I would agree that there is definitely some sort of influence. But there also seems to be a measure of free will involved that wasn't present for Nick or Renard. (Nick never had a moment of lucidity, Renard only ended up aware after the murders happened.) I do actually think she can be salvaged though, if the show writers choose.

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  28. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 02:56

    "I choose to believe that Juliette's humanity has been completely suppressed if not destroyed by the Hexenbeist."

    Fixed that for you.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Bill 2 | theratingsjunkie9 May 2015 at 02:58

    It gave me a headache. I feel grimm now.

    Sorry, had to.

    ReplyDelete
  30. James9 May 2015 at 03:01

    You think Nick is gonna go Zombie Grimm on Juliette next week?

    ReplyDelete
  31. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 03:01

    I think it's a possibility.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Rosember9 May 2015 at 03:03

    Well, in the end we can argue about this for hours, but in the end the only ones who can answer the question if Juliette is fully in control or not is the writers.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Sandra9 May 2015 at 03:03

    I'm still in denial, for two reasons really. I don't want the ending to be true, and after reading some finale spoilers, I thought Nick was supposed to have help from both Trubel and Kelly. Maybe this really is one of the two deaths, and she makes an appearance with just her head. But I don't understand how the Royals would have easily and fairly quickly killed her. I thought she was pretty strong and would have at least put up a longer fight.

    ReplyDelete
  34. elle j.9 May 2015 at 03:05

    Most opinions on this episode may have come across that I'm angry. I'm not, just disappointed at the turn of events. I see things one way and you don't agree. That's fine. Of course what I post is my opinion and interpretation. I try to point that out when applicable, but that doesn't mean I say IMO every single time. However, for you to correct the wording in my post comes across as mean-spirited.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Isidra9 May 2015 at 03:05

    I have to admit, I've always thought "quote-fixing" was kind of dickish, and tends to sour a good discussion/debate.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Rosember9 May 2015 at 03:07

    Well, in the episode it shows that there are a lot of hundjagers surrounding the house so it would be pretty difficult to fight like 15 of them by yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 03:07

    I think Grimm would have given the character a better fight if the actress were there in person but it was an off-screen death and those are always underwhelming.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 03:08

    Fair enough. I'm not fond of stating speculation as fact. Kind of makes me feel dickish.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 03:10

    You're right. I wasn't purposely trying to be mean but it was ill-tempered and discourteous. I apologize.

    ReplyDelete
  40. elle j.9 May 2015 at 03:10

    I don't want to argue. I never want to argue or change anyone's opinions. I'm just voicing my own and hoping to have a good discussion over an entertaining show. You're right though. In the end it's the writers that dictates everything. I just wish they would be more clear and consistent in doing so.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Isidra9 May 2015 at 03:18

    My theory is that Juliette's essentially being influenced by a biochemical imbalance. That the hexenbiest is enhancing some of her natural feelings of resentment/anger and possibly twisting love to hate, which is why she seems to be lashing out at Nick so much (Henrietta did seem to be warning about something like that.) She probably will have to continually spend her life either trying to fight it, or giving in. Right now, she isn't fighting it anymore. If she does get redeemed, that's something she'll have to live with and atone for, I'd reckon.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Historical_Materialist9 May 2015 at 03:18

    Given how fast she came up with Renard's solution looks like Adalind is going to be the new trailer.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Sandra9 May 2015 at 03:19

    True. I wish we would have seen a bit of the fight though. If only Trubel stuck around the house. she might have been able to help Kelly at least escape.

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  44. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 03:20

    Ha! I can't think of a more unflattering PG-rated nickname.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Rosember9 May 2015 at 03:21

    Ha Ha. That was funny.

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  46. Historical_Materialist9 May 2015 at 03:21

    She's easy to park and a little squeaky.

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  47. Mar Tim9 May 2015 at 03:22

    OMG OMG That was like Brad Pitt in Seven

    ReplyDelete
  48. Sandra9 May 2015 at 03:24

    She should have gotten a better death scene

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  49. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 03:27

    I don't think it's chemical. I think Juliette has been traumatized by what has happened to her and what has become of her life. she's using her hexenbiest as an excuse to lash out and do horrible things. In my opinion, she needs a psychiatrist, not an exorcist.

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  50. JJ9 May 2015 at 03:28

    That bitch needs to die! Now. She is never coming back from this at this point. Even if she ever did become the Juliette she once was no way is any of her family (Nick) or friends going to be able to be normal around her. Even zombie Nick was at least some what excusable and he showed serious remorse after for killing that drunk dude at the bar. He wanted to turn himself in and everything. This bitch thing that once was Juliette. No she is dead and gone. She needs to go. I seriously hope this season ends with somebody being gone by the end for good. And not even like dark Willow in Buffy kind of way who comes back the next season from her "rehab". But like I'm talking gone for good. Nick is not going to be able to live with her after everything this version of Juliette has done. He's better off single at this point.

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  51. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 03:30

    Agreed. Good characters deserve good deaths.

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  52. Historical_Materialist9 May 2015 at 03:31

    No, I have to disagree. Kelly's death was perfect. This was very Hitchcock. The viewer sees this is a death trap. Knows that Kelly and the child are walking into a trap and you don't see any of it. You only hear the struggle and what you are certain is Kelly dying. And then, silence and a sad little girl sitting alone in an empty room. Grimm usually does a lot wrong with how it films its sequences but this wasn't one of those times. It was very well done.

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  53. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 03:43

    Would it be so bad if she doesn't come back from this? She's a good villain so far.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Sandra9 May 2015 at 03:44

    Doesn't Diana have powers? I would think she would have tried to use them and protect her mom if she saw her being attacked

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  55. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 03:45

    I think a lot of people are wondering that same thing. I know I am.

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  56. Graydon9 May 2015 at 03:52

    Depends, but the bitch better be dead soon.

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  57. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 03:57

    I think the quote at the top of the show indicates there's no going back for Juliette and you may get your wish about that death next week too.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 03:59

    From what I can tell, these three sentiments are shared among a lot of the Grimm viewers.

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  59. James9 May 2015 at 04:01

    If only his name was not "Kenneth".

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  60. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 04:04

    I believe I once said something similar about Adalind.

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  61. Graydon9 May 2015 at 04:07

    Perhaps she was trained to conceal and repress her power?

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  62. AvonleaMist9 May 2015 at 04:09

    You are right - it was surprising how effectively tragic her death was in that we only heard it and did not see it.

    ReplyDelete
  63. AvonleaMist9 May 2015 at 04:10

    Ha - the trailer that keeps getting pregnant

    ReplyDelete
  64. James9 May 2015 at 04:10

    Next thing we know, we get a character with a menacing name but possesses a contrasting personality and physicality...


    "SHADRACH!!" =))

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  65. elle j.9 May 2015 at 04:11

    I'm currently reading Grimm's Facebook page because Bitsie was nice enough to answer fans' questions. One person asked, (and I'm paraphrasing here) Why is Juliette doing this to Nick? Here's her response.

    Bitsie Tulloch Ultimately she can't help it. She's under a spell that turned her into a monster
    72 · Like · 6 hrs

    So maybe my characterization of Juliette being possessed is exactly right. She is, however, under the control of a dark magic that turned her into a Hexenbeist.

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  66. AvonleaMist9 May 2015 at 04:12

    I think that beginning quote said it all - did not think she would die until that quote appeared on the screen - and then I thought uh-oh

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  67. Graydon9 May 2015 at 04:14

    It could chemical, given the series seems to suggest that becoming a hexenbiest changed her fundamentally, and that Wesens generally have seen behaviour exhibited by members of their types. Femme fatale type stuff for Hexenbiest, timidness for Eisbibers, and savage violent tendencies for Blutbads.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Graydon9 May 2015 at 04:17

    Plus she gets around easy enough.

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  69. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 04:19

    Well, I'd say that Henrietta and Renard's mom seemed perfectly sane and helpful and even Adalind can be reasoned with and she had to do all sorts of weird stuff to get another Hexenbiest but then someone would give me the Juliette is a super-special snowflake argument. So, all I can say is that I don't see anything to back that up.

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  70. Graydon9 May 2015 at 04:24

    Well Adalind seduced Hank and was incredibly manipulative of him to get the key, and was a complete bitch. Then manipulated Renard and Eric. Her mom was abusive, and was heavily, heavily implied to psychologically manipulate her (she basically said beauty was her greatest women), and taught her to use her beauty and power to manipulate. And Henrietta well that scene where she seduced Nick. And Adalind, Juliette, Adaind's mom all had pretty violent tempers. Oh and Renard's mom slept with a king. It's safe to say being a seductive femme fatale traits that Juliette is exhibiting at tines are common to Hexenbiests.

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  71. JJ9 May 2015 at 04:38

    I agree. I like how it was carried out despite how sad I am for Nick and for little Diana. I like that we didn't see the brutality off it which while it's probably because they just didn't have the actress around it makes the scene even more brutal to have the box just laying there. So odd and threatening despite being just a randomly placed cardboard box. I feel like it would have cheapened it if we had seen all the nitty gritty details of Kelly's death instead it definitely had more of a sad, less gory but heartbreaking kind of Hitchcock vibe. Poor Nick :( I thought he acted the hell out of that scene and there is times I find the actor only okay for an actor. But I thought he did a good job with that end scene. Can't blame the poor guy for going into shock and denial.

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  72. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 04:38

    Adalind and her Mom's behavior could just as easily be explained by them being bad people in a bad family and bad upbringing. Also, women desire to and sleep with powerful men all the time. They don't need to look like the crypt keeper to do it.

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  73. Volcanalis9 May 2015 at 04:38

    I think that may be the case. At the end of the episode that Kelly got Diana, she said "I'm gonna have to teach you
    not to do that in public" when Diana was using her powers, so that may have changed to just not using them much at all or something.

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  74. kayell9 May 2015 at 04:39

    Nick died

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  75. Isidra9 May 2015 at 04:56

    I think there must be some physiological element because it happened so very fast. (And at varying degrees at first.) It's exacerbating the psychological aspects that were already there.

    We don't know much about Henrietta or Elizabeth, but Henrietta did warn about some issues as Juliette gets used to being a Hexenbiest. And Adalind didn't seem terribly surprised when Juliette destroyed a bar, even snarking about how they've all done that.

    My guess would be that this imbalance type thing is a natural part of being a hexenbiest. But that the other characters have learned to manage it, where Juliette hasn't (and doesn't appear to be interested in trying at this point).

    I think if it were solely psychological, she'd be lashing out more generally. But it's clear that the worst of her aggression and uncharacteristic cruelty is focused on Nick. Which is sad, because both of them are the victims of what happened.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 05:01

    I could have actually bought that this has been part of some sort of adjustment period that happens while the host and the hexenbiest are trying to find a workable balance. If that had been the case though, Grimm should have done a much better job of communicating that to the audience rather than giving them practically nothing and leaving them to speculate.

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  77. Isidra9 May 2015 at 05:03

    The whole point of Wesen though is that they're representative of aspects of human nature. (At least that was always my read on the show.) This doesn't mean that all hexenbiests are doomed to act like Juliette, granted. She definitely seems to be handling it worse than the others. But then, we never actually saw a hexenbiest enter...well, wesen puberty, I guess. Juliette's situation IS different, because she didn't grow up with this as a possibility, has no female relatives who could presumably teach her ways to handle this. Henrietta seemed to have some advice on the issue (and she did warn Nick to stay away during this time.) but sadly, Juliette never went back to ask her.


    Considering there's a clear progression in Juliette's behavior since becoming a hexenbiest, we can hypothesize that hexenbiest nature seems to exacerbate feelings of anger, aggression, and sexual desire. All traits we've seen Juliette portray before, but never to this extent.

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  78. Travis Crincoli9 May 2015 at 05:06

    any1 hoping for a "killing kenneth" joke?

    ReplyDelete
  79. Travis Crincoli9 May 2015 at 05:07

    one of the grimm's died.

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  80. Isidra9 May 2015 at 05:08

    Honestly, I have to disagree with you on two counts. I've always liked that Grimm didn't hand-hold us to conclusions, but lets us analyze for ourselves to some extent. But moreover, it always seemed fairly clear to me that there's an adjustment period, simply because of Adalind's reaction to hearing about Juliette's rampage (before leaving Kenneth), and Henrietta's warnings to Nick and Juliette.

    I think Juliette is dealing with it particularly poorly, mind you. And doesn't seem to be remotely interested in speaking to other hexenbiests as to how they manage it. But perhaps we'll see that if they go the redemption/atonement route with her. (Though the villain route might be more fun. :-))

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  81. Isidra9 May 2015 at 05:10

    ...I could swear I intended this to be a reply to a different comment. Sorry. :-( I think I fail at disqus.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 05:11

    I can agree with most of this but, to me, this still points to a psychological issue of not being able to handle all these changes rather than being compelled to do things and being controlled by her Hexenbiest.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Isidra9 May 2015 at 05:17

    I'm not arguing that she's being CONTROLLED by the hexenbiest. I've never thought the hexenbiest was a separate consciousness. (Adalind's behavior didn't change much when she was depowered by Nick the first time, IMO). I think it's influencing her though. Like a drug or alcohol high.


    I've always had the impression that hexenbiests are one of those wesen, like the spider folk from season one perhaps, with natures that generally one has to keep in fairly careful control. Except for Adalind, who's very erratic, most of the hexenbiests we meet are women with fairly tightly contained personalities with flashes of temper or manipulative tendencies. (Catherine, Henrietta, Elizabeth. Even the glimpses we had of the two dead girls in Beeware.) Adalind seems to be an exception, which might be a factor in why she tends to get in over her head so often: she doesn't control her anger or desperation, leading her to react fairly quickly and destructively, which ends with her in a more difficult situation than she started.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Lancome9 May 2015 at 05:17

    Nick is gonna get a head from Juliette.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 05:20

    At this point I'm willing to let the Juliette issue lie because we both seem pretty sure about our own viewpoints. I do need to address the hand-holding comment though.

    Grimm doesn't hand-hold? That's all they do. Grimm is blunt and obvious. The show has always been that way. They're subtle about nothing.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 05:25

    So you're saying that Hexenbiests are best compatible to people that have only the highest levels of self-discipline and self-control that when you add a super-powered biest with a highly volatile person in a highly volatile situation, Juliette just wasn't strong enough to handle the changes, leading to her current behavior.

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  87. Isidra9 May 2015 at 05:31

    I don't think it's a matter of "compatibility" honestly, because that seems to imply to me a measure of choosing who becomes a hexenbiest. For the most part hexenbiests are hexenbiests. They're born that way. Like anyone born with a particular trait, they've learned from birth or manifestation to adapt. Perhaps they have some evolutionary genetic advantages along with the difficulties.


    As far as we know, Juliette is the only person to have been suddenly turned INTO a hexenbiest. So she wouldn't have any of the coping mechanisms that even Adalind would have learned growing up. Maybe she can or can't learn them now. That probably depends on her inclination, and the writers'.

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  88. Isidra9 May 2015 at 05:34

    I would never accuse this show of being subtle. :-) However, I think we're talking about different things when it comes to hand-holding. There is a lot that the show doesn't explain, or lets unfold gradually, which allows us to draw our own conclusions about wesen nature, hexenbiests (which seem like their own category sometimes), grimm nature, even Royals. Sometimes those conclusions turn out to be wrong, but I enjoy that they leave enough for us to form our own understandings of the setting.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 05:38

    I speak of compatibility specifically because there are "made" hexenbiests and not just born hexenbiests so you can choose. Juliette is an exception because her transformation was unintentional whereas any other made hexenbiest chose to undergo the process.

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  90. Isidra9 May 2015 at 05:50

    I think I see what you mean. I don't think anyone in universe would have chosen Juliette to be a hexenbiest (superpowered or no). She doesn't seem to have the type of personality suited to control it, and she wouldn't have gotten any of the training or preparation that one hopes other made hexenbiests would have. It'll be interesting to see where the show takes her. I'm enjoying her as a villain. I'd also enjoy her as an atoner, genuinely trying to adapt to a situation that she's not suited for.

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  91. Bruce_F9 May 2015 at 05:59

    I think atonement would be a very tough task for Juliette at this point. Not necessarily for the character herself but getting much of the audience to accept it. I try not to judge characters on shows like these too harshly so if done right I wouldn't put up a fuss. From a lot of the reactions I've seen toward Juliette's behavior the last few weeks, I think there's a lot of viewers who wouldn't accept atonement no matter what she did. Hell, there's still plenty of people who want Adalind's head on a spike too and probably always will. I don't know how the Grimm writers navigate all of it without losing their minds.

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  92. Isidra9 May 2015 at 06:02

    It probably just makes it more fun. :-)

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  93. João Paulo9 May 2015 at 07:02

    Nick lost his aunt and now his mother, wow man Juliette and Kennedy needs to die, I hope Nick kill both.

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  94. Dmac9 May 2015 at 07:03

    Because the others didn't help facilitate Nick's mothers murder. There is no coming back from that.

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  95. Graydon9 May 2015 at 07:17

    Point is there is a pattern and the show itself has had Hexenbiests (like Henrietta) vocally suggest Juliette will display these characteristics because she's one now. And she has.

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  96. Spiritus Luan9 May 2015 at 08:59

    As in Kill Bill "this man deserves a revenge, and the Royals die". Was an IMPRESSIVE EPISODE. Full of everything. We just saw the new side of Juliette´s absolutelly developed already. I like her idea of stand in the dark side. At last she is the main villain now. Her brief interludes of conscience. are not because she is gonna to back, but because she is fighting in herself for follow a way or another.
    Nick take the revenge!

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  97. jokeslayer949 May 2015 at 09:13

    If thats whats really going on, the redemption of Adalind, then I am going to rage quit this show so hard that I might actually send personalized hate mail to the head writer of every single episode since juliette turned evil.


    I have wrote entire pages of text in other disqus forums about my intense hatred for adalind. I cant stand her. I can't stand watching the main cast be nice to her. Right up until she crossed the line in this episode I was seriously cheering for Juliette to kill her.


    She is a vapid, whiny, useless excuse for plot who has overstayed her welcome on this cast by about 2 1/2 seasons and she has actively derailed the main storyline of the show while doing it. WILL SOMEONE PLEASE JUST WRITE HER OFF OR BETTER YET, KILL HER!!!!!

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  98. TV_Watcher9 May 2015 at 09:29

    Does anyone think that the Juliette thing is a long con? I would like to think that between Juliette and Kelly this was the only thing that they could think of to get the Royals off of their back permanently. Magic fake an attack with the help of nearly adult mystic baby. I know I am grasping at straws.
    Random things:
    Nick needs to find a new place to live
    MOVE THE KEYS!!

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  99. Graydon9 May 2015 at 09:29

    There's a difference between Zombie Nick and Juliette. One has at least strong control over their actions, the other none. One knowingly tried to murder Monroe. And as you said Renard and Nick were not in control and literally no themselves. And best Juliette has been influenced by her Hexenbiest self. But she willingly embraced it. Huge difference and Juliette clearly is aware of her actions as she did them and has some control (it's implied she' influenced but that pretty much stated that she willing gave into it) unlike Renard and Nick. So this comparison is ridiculous.

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  100. 1239 May 2015 at 10:08

    Wow, what an episode! So now there is no coming back for Nick and Juliette's relationship. She went too far, this is unforgiveable!
    Very nice to have Trubel back! Can't wait for the finale!

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  101. elle j.9 May 2015 at 10:12

    Let me clarify why I think my comparison is valid. Zombie Nick, Renard the Ripper, and Juliette have all been under a dark, supernatural influence causing them to not be in control of their actions. The difference being that Nick and Renard were unaware and Juliette is very aware. I believe Juliette may know what she is doing, but she cannot control what she is doing.

    Further on down I mention reading Bitsie having a question and answer session on Facebook. I quoted two specific questions in that post, but I'll paraphrase here. One question was why is Juliette doing this to Nick. Bitsie answered that ultimately Juliette isn't in control of her actions and is under the influence of a spell that turned her into a monster. The second question asked how much of Juliette is left in the Hexenbeist. Bitsie answered very, very little. I still think that it's not a matter of Juliette embracing the Hexenbeist. It's more a matter of the Hexenbeist controlling Juliette and chipping away her humanity piece by piece in order to do so.

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  102. Joy Haldar9 May 2015 at 11:50

    1.Everyone figured out Renard was possessed by Jack the Ripper last week.
    2.Everyone knew Truel was coming this week.
    3.Everyone knew Sean will get shot AGAIN.
    4.Everyone knew the episode will end with Kelly's death.
    Still,it was an entertaining & action packed episode-I loved it!
    Next week body Count-Kenneth & Juliette(I love her but her time has come!).

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  103. Linlighthouse9 May 2015 at 12:56

    So TBTB started a rumor that a main character would die. Kelly is not main, but Renard is, and he "died." So sad when Diana asked, "Where's my mommy?"

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  104. Jordana349 May 2015 at 13:07

    And supposedly , Hexenbiests also have a thing for the royals and tend to be very loyal towards them, which is why it has been easy for them to get both Adalind and Juliette to do their dirty work. Adalind was manipulative, but she was also manipulated by Renard to do all these things for him in the earlier seasons, so I definitely wouldn't put Renard in the innocent category. In fact, everything Adalind did in the first season was because Renard asked her to do those things. And then he dumped her when she lost her powers, because she was of no use to him.

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  105. Jordana349 May 2015 at 13:09

    At least three people died in this episode.

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  106. Mr. Edmodo9 May 2015 at 13:32

    Grimm 4x22 "Cry Havoc" (Season Finale) - On the heels of a shocking discovery, Nick (David Giuntoli) is hell bent on getting revenge and taking the fight to the Royals with help from Trubel (guest star Jacqueline Toboni). Meanwhile, Juliette's (Bitsie Tulloch) alliance continues to lead her down a dark path. Russell Hornsby, Silas Weir Mitchell, Sasha Roiz, Reggie Lee, Bree Turner and Claire Coffee also star.

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  107. Mr. Edmodo9 May 2015 at 13:40

    I have a bad feeling they are going to redeem the b!tch.

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  108. Linlighthouse9 May 2015 at 13:58

    "Stronger than lover's love is lover's hate." This was the starting quote. Does this mean Juliette has come to hate Nick, or is Nick going to hate Juliette after his mother's murder? Or both?

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  109. Luke Farmer9 May 2015 at 14:00

    Might lead to an explanation about zombie grimm, since they dropped that storyline.

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  110. Ereth Reetnith9 May 2015 at 14:25

    i was so happy to see Trubel! :D :D :D

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  111. Graydon9 May 2015 at 14:26

    Even if that's confirmed canonically. Nick and Renard were completely unaware and had no control or anything. Juliette on the other hand is. And until it's entirely proven in canon that she has no control over her new self (which does not appear to be the case- she clearly knows and understands what she's doing is wrong) at best she's influenced by her new wesen self.

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  112. Jordana349 May 2015 at 14:32

    I knew Kelly's death was coming, but I had no idea that Nick would find out in such a horrifying manner. That's not the kind of thing that Nick will every get over seeing. Grimm has really done dark. The ending of this episode was so tragic, that it almost made me forget about some of the great moments earlier on. Such as Trubel's return (she was sorely missed), Bob sitting in the living room with a baseball bat trying freaking out over protection of Adalind, speaking of which....I wonder what Adalind's reaction will be when she finds out that Juliette has Diana. And without her powers, it will be so much harder to protect herself and her daughter .


    I've been feeling sorry for Juliette for a while, but I'm at that point where she definitely has to be killed. along with the smug new Royal. . Even though a lot of her behavior has to do with begin a Hexenbiest, I still think that she is somewhat in control of her actions. Based on the people that she is targeting, it is clear that the "old Juliette" is still there...hence all of the feelings of anger and hurt towards Nick. Her victims are not random and worst, she is using everything she knows about Nick to figure out how to hurt him the most. When Nick became a Zombie and Renard was possessed, neither of them targeted and plotted against people they knew well.....their actions were not premeditated and they weren't governed by hurt feelings or a need for revenge. The victims were random strangers. Juliette, on the other hand, conspired with the Royals, torched NIck's van, gave Kenneth details on all of the neighbours, tried to kill NIck's friends and lured Nicks' mother into a death trap. She figured out the things that would hurt Nick the most and plotted to take them away from him. Her actions were calculating, premeditated and triggered by a desire for revenge. and that requires a certain amount of control and self-awareness, So to me, being a Hexenbiest just brought out a different (and more extreme) side of Juliette.

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  113. sumitra sundaram9 May 2015 at 14:35

    Juliette needs to die ASAP

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  114. James9 May 2015 at 14:59

    We've been getting hints hear and there since he gained back his powers so it's not entirely off the table just yet hopefully.

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  115. Linlighthouse9 May 2015 at 15:30

    I just thought of this, but what if Nick had been a good son and communicated with his mother. Just a simple, "Mom, I thought you should know, but Juliette has turned into a Hexenbiest" would have prevented this tragedy. Too late now, Nick.

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  116. Tom9 May 2015 at 17:07

    I believe Juliette used Nick's email to draw Kelly in and then deleted both her message and Kelly's response. So, Nick wouldn't have known Kelly was coming.

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  117. Penny Pridie9 May 2015 at 17:39

    Juliette needs to be GONE! How can there ever be forgiveness now? Nope, she needs to go. Looove Trubel (not her name so much tho)...and PLEASE tell me Nick's mom isn't really dead 😢
    I'm hoping by some miracle that it wasn't REALLY her, or there's some way it just isn't so. Ugh, too sad to think it could be true. And...wouldn't it be very interesting to see Nick and Adelind get together?

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  118. Penny Pridie9 May 2015 at 17:43

    I agree 100%! She needs to go! To make things "ok" somehow would disappoint me and to let this all drag on for any longer would also disappoint, so it has to end somehow in a way that will keep us all watching but not bored.

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  119. Isidra9 May 2015 at 18:12

    I didn't read the facebook post as suggesting the hexenbiest is "in control" of Juliette as though it were a separate entity. I read her comments as stating she "became" a monster. That seems to me that Juliette is still the one in charge, but her personality has changed to suit her new situation. That doesn't mean I think she can't be redeemed. It does however strike me as very different than Renard (where another distinct entity was completely in control and Renard was suppressed) or Nick (who was so mindless with rage/pain/zombiedom that NO one was making conscious decisions.)

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  120. Mia9 May 2015 at 18:27

    First the trailer now Kelly? Juliette really reached the point of no return. hopefully she dies in the finale

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  121. Linlighthouse9 May 2015 at 18:43

    Okay, but what I meant was, what if he had been in regular communication with his mother, and he had written as soon as he found out what happened to Juliette?

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  122. Nicolás Caballero Mühlbach9 May 2015 at 20:46

    TOTALLY AGREE. Same as in Sleepy Hollow, Grimm will be a dead show to my eyes. The way that they treated Juliette as character, a person who has always supported Nick no matter what, a character who has sacrificed herself several times for Nick... this change from good to bad is bad writing. Period.

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  123. Bazooka9 May 2015 at 22:02

    To quote Rosalie "That bitch"

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  124. Marie Laberge9 May 2015 at 22:16

    How the hell will Nick explain to the police that someone ripped all his neighbors to pieces and then left the severed head of his supposedly dead mother in his living room? Even if gets rid of the head, the dead neighbors are bound to raise suspicion, especially after all the weird shit that's been happening in his house over the last few years.

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  125. Marie Laberge9 May 2015 at 22:38

    Juliette is in control and there is no double standard. People said "Kill the bitch" when Adalind screwed with people, as a human or as a hexenbiest. Like her, Juliette isn't "possessed" and I don't think the power itself is evil, or else Nick and all other grimms would just systematically kill every Hexenbiest or Zauberbiest they ran into. Renard as a zauberbiest has done some pretty shady stuff, but I don't think he's evil. Jack is a seperate entity. It's not that Renard isn't in control of his actions as much as there were never HIS actions to begin with. As to the matter of Zombie Nick, from what I understand, the liquid that transformed people into zombies ha the same effect as powerful drugs. If someone's been drugged (unintentionnaly) and ends up Killing someone, he is innocent of the crime. He's not in control. So of course the same principle applies to Nick who was, for all intent of purpose, drugged out of his mind when he killed those people.

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  126. prpleight9 May 2015 at 22:41

    I liked this episode a lot better than last weeks. But I'm also more convinced that Bitsie Tulloch will NOT be on the show next season. On the up side it looks like her rage hit a brick wall. I am so disappointed that Kelley was killed. And here is why I consider Kenneth nothing more than a thug with royal blood. I'm betting the King knows it. I am just waiting on Juliette to demonstrate why his believe that he has her under control is wrong.


    Kenneth had everyone around Nick's house KILLED? That's just stupid and completely unnecessary. Even if he has a plane on the tarmac ready to get you right out of town. Nick's a cop. Looking at this from the outside/non-Wesen pov... He went after a cop. Killed his neighbors and his mother. Nothing mobilizes a city/state or heck even a national police force than attacking one of their own. Let's hope that plane doesn't need to touch down for re-feuling. That animosity would have been worse if Nick and Hank had been killed as originally planned. But since Nick isn't dead....he now has a really really really really really really pissed off Grimm on his tail. Did no one get a report on the results of the last Royal plan? They turned him into a zombie and he walked away.


    At least I'm looking forward to the finale. Huzzah

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  127. MeatyStakes9 May 2015 at 22:44

    Either Juliette dies in the finale, there is some sort of ruse going on, or she becomes the Big Bad for the next season (which could actually bring immediacy to the royal's dealings; following Juliette in her dark crusade would put us right there in the royal family's world) and I just so excited!

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  128. prpleight9 May 2015 at 22:46

    I'm losing sight of how. This episode burned a bridge and I can't see how they can bring her back from that. I saw signs that Juliette will make a choice to protect Diana but I do not see how they can redeem her. They may be able to bring her personality back to it's pre-hexenbiest version but I cannot see how they can ever trust or forgive her. Well, at least not in a way that I expect I would believe.

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  129. prpleight9 May 2015 at 22:48

    thank you. thank you for a way to hope that Kelley isn't really dead. I really mean that.

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  130. Marie Laberge9 May 2015 at 22:51

    I completly agree about Adalind being "vapid, whiny, useless excuse for a villain". But that's why I sort of want her to be an ally. I don't want her to be redeemed exactly, so much as I want all the focus she previously put in ruining our heroes lives (which made her into a nuisance) to be redirected towards the heroes' enemies. I think she could be much more powerful as an ally than she ever was as an enemy.
    But I want to know, do you care at all about Juliette's fate? your post is all about your hatred for Adalind, but do you actually oppose Juliette becoming a villain... or just that it could be used to paint Adalind in a better light (by comparison)? Because I LIKE Juliette as a villain. I like her as a Hexenbiest and she is much more interesing now that she's evil. I guess I felt about the same about her as I did about Adalind for the previous seasons. I felt like she was a little useless, a lot helpless and generally a big weakness for Nick. If being evil and a Hexenbiest is what it takes to make her badass (and relevant), then I'm all for it.
    I think Adalind as an ally and Juliette as an enemy make both characters a lot more interesting, as it gives them new depts to explore.

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  131. elle j.9 May 2015 at 22:53

    I just saw this very interesting theory on Grimm's Facebook page. Remember how Diana glamoured Nick and Juliette into thinking a pillow was her and Adalind ran away with the baby from their house? What if Juliette cast a similar spell and it's actually the head of the Wesen that Trubel killed? What if Kelly (with Trubel's help) took down the Royals and saved themselves along with the neighbors. We didn't actually see the Royal's hit squad kill Kelly or the neighbors. For any of that to work, that would mean Juliette is playing double agent against the Royals and for Team Grimm. Maybe for the plan to work, Juliette had to convice the gang that she turned evil so she could get the Royals to trust her. I would love for all of this to turn out to be some elaborate plan Juliette, Kelly, and Trubel invented.

    That's a lot of what ifs and maybes. I'm just starting to think there is more going on than what we've seen so far. Otherwise, Juliette's days are numbered if Kelly is really dead. Guess I'm in denial as well.

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  132. prpleight9 May 2015 at 22:54

    She has been a great villain now. But I don't think she'd be a good villain next season. This ep convinced me she's going to die. (or possibly, come back to her sanity, and take Diana off to take over Kelley's job of raising Diana right.) My first thought at the end of the ep was...as a way of being written off the show this has got to be great for the actress. She started off doing the boring 'good girlfriend always in the dark' and is finishing her run with all these juicy scenes.

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  133. elle j.9 May 2015 at 23:32

    The power itself may not predetermine a Hexenbeist or Zauberbeist to be evil. However, Juliette isn't like any other Hexenbeist before her. Her powers are the result of a spell cast using dark magic that went really, really wrong. That's why I have a hard time judging Juliette against the standard Hexenbeist like Adalind, Henrietta, or Renard's mother because her circumstances are unprecedented. A human was not meant to obtain these Wesen powers by means of dark magic. Over the past few months, Juliette has been fighting a losing battle to the monster. I think she wasn't strong enough anymore by the time Juliette found out Adalind was pregnant with Nick's baby. That's really when Juliette disappeared and the Hexenbeist came out full force.

    I guess we'll see what happens. Maybe the writers have something up their sleeve and there is more going on than what we've seen. If there isn't more to the story, then I don't see how Juliette survives this let alone is redeemed even if she is no longer in control as I suspect. Best case scenario is that this all is an elaborate ruse and no one died by Juliette's scheming. Even then I don't see her jumping back into Nick's arms and eargerly rejoining the Scooby Gang. She would be far too traumatized for that to happen.

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  134. Isidra10 May 2015 at 00:01

    It's very strange, but I almost see that theory as worse than what actually happened. To have Kelly and Juliette intentionally allow Nick to believe that Kelly was dead, and come face to face with her head in such a singularly traumatizing fashion.

    That seems so pointlessly cruel. And I'd really hate to think that Kelly could do that to her son again.

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  135. Sandra10 May 2015 at 00:46

    That would be so nice and could actually work. I genuinely think Juliette's evilness was real at first. She could have changed her mind when she found out the Royals were going to kill Kelly and not just take the baby. She did seem like she wasn't too sure about the Royals/whole thing when we saw her in the car with Diana and Kenneth.

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  136. Sandra10 May 2015 at 00:51

    It would be cruel, however I would rather that than actually having Kelly dead. We didn't get to see enough of her.

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  137. prpleight10 May 2015 at 01:43

    I didn't know Kelley was going to die! :-) I had complete faith in her ability to kick ass against all odds and was looking forward to seeing Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio again. I was shocked. Unfortunately my shock was almost immediately mitigated by evaluating the quality of the head. I couldn't help it. (I suppose they weren't able to get Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio to make the mask.)

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  138. prpleight10 May 2015 at 01:45

    I got the feeling they tried to get her but couldn't. I'm glad they went on with the story anyway but I was really sad they weren't able to get her booked for the episodes.

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  139. Marie Laberge10 May 2015 at 02:50

    As something like this reallynever happened? because I seem to remember Juliette asking Rosalee something about that. In th episode where Monroe gets kidnapped by the Tribunal I think. Juliette was discovering her abilities and she had just learned that Adalind got her powers back. So she asked Rosalee about if Hexenbiest can be made or if they have to be born. Rosalee said that the made ones are even worst/more powerful then the ones who are born that way. So, I don't know ... maybe the standard procedure to make a human into a Hexenbiest is less "harmful" or "brutal" than what Juliette went through. I'm just not sure it would have made much of a difference.

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  140. Starsearcher10 May 2015 at 10:56

    Lol! I like that. I started thinking of her as Wikilind. How comes Adalind suddenly knows it all? She knew Juliette would turn into a Hexenbiest if she helped Nick become a Grimm again, now she knew things not even Henrietta had a clue about. I never thought of her as a superior Hexenbiest so why does she have knowledge not even Renard's mom and Henrietta had? It sounds a bit illogic to me.

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  141. Lubbeelou10 May 2015 at 14:23

    I'm just going to put it out there... I don't think Kelly is dead... :)

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  142. Isidra10 May 2015 at 18:32

    Someone who could deliberately set their son up to find a replica of their head in a box really wouldn't be Kelly to me, to be honest. I think I'd rather she be dead, if that were the case. But YMMV, naturally.

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  143. Bruce_F10 May 2015 at 20:09

    I think the odds are she's going to die as well. I believe she'd be good as a recurring villain working for the Royals though. 5 or 6 appearances during a season is enough to cause plenty of trouble (and fun for me).

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  144. prpleight10 May 2015 at 20:42

    My main reason for thinking she wouldn't be a good continuing villain was directed more at the writers than the character. Moving Adalind into a story completely apart from then main show canvas was a big mistake. I don't have faith that they could handle it well. So I can't help but vote they don't try. exit the character on a success note. imho

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  145. Bruce_F10 May 2015 at 20:48

    That would be fine with me as well.

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  146. jokeslayer9411 May 2015 at 21:43

    I agree with everything you said...... kinda.
    I do want all the focus taken off of adalind, but I am not willing to forgive her for what she has done. I certainly don't think she deserves redemption.


    As for Juliette, its not so much that I oppose juliette becoming a villain, but I hate how far they have taken it.


    I agree that she is far more interesting now than she has ever been. She's actually far better at being scary and menacing than I would have thought. I like how she rejects Nick's attempts to "cure" her.

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