Thanks to KOKY for the heads up.
How much does the finale tease season four?
It gives you a very definitive end. It does feel like a series finale. At the same time, now that we're working on season four, there are plot threads and notions from the season finale that get pulled into season four. It really does function on both levels, much more so than previous season finales. We've never ended a season the way we're ending this season, where literally you are going, "How can the show go on?" At the end of season one in the wake of Tommy's [Colin Donnell] death, there was a question of how can Oliver go on? But there was no question of how the show was going to be the show. Here, literally there is no more Arrow identity. There is no more lair. Relationships are fractured. All the things that sort of make the show the show are kind of gone. It's an interesting conundrum the finale poses, which is "OK. That was a really satisfying ending, but I know there is a season four, so how is there going to be a season four?" It's a cliffhanger.
It gives you a very definitive end. It does feel like a series finale. At the same time, now that we're working on season four, there are plot threads and notions from the season finale that get pulled into season four. It really does function on both levels, much more so than previous season finales. We've never ended a season the way we're ending this season, where literally you are going, "How can the show go on?" At the end of season one in the wake of Tommy's [Colin Donnell] death, there was a question of how can Oliver go on? But there was no question of how the show was going to be the show. Here, literally there is no more Arrow identity. There is no more lair. Relationships are fractured. All the things that sort of make the show the show are kind of gone. It's an interesting conundrum the finale poses, which is "OK. That was a really satisfying ending, but I know there is a season four, so how is there going to be a season four?" It's a cliffhanger.
Source:
Some interesting tidbits. I'm more shocked that Guggenheim got through a full interview without saying the words 'Olicity' or 'Felicity'. That must have nearly killed him! :P
ReplyDeleteSorry, Marc Guggenheim but if your superhero show ends with fractured relationships on the team and the main character who has lost almost everything, then it will absolutely not feel like a series finale. Once again, your descriptions and word choices baffle me.
ReplyDeleteThe timeline still doesn't make sense. This Guggenheim quote from the article:
ReplyDelete"We wrote [the finale] in close consultation with The Flash writers, knowing where Barry was in his story and if you watch episode 23 of Arrow with 23 of Flash back to back, Barry goes straight from Arrow into the season finale of Flash. There's a pretty good explanation in The Flash story as why he can't just solve all of Oliver's problems in five minutes."
That still screws up the continuity because there is no time gap between A-3x22 and A-3x23. When exactly does Oliver get away from under Ra's al Ghul's thumb to appear in TF-1x22 before the events of A-3x23? The only way the continuity works is if Guggenheim misspoke and he meant that the chronological order should be A-3x22 A-3x23 TF-1x22 TF-1x23, especially if they were working with the Flash staff to make sure events were in sync.
Bottom line, we'll know by the end of next Tuesday.
It really is a bit too messy and they should just cut it out next season.
ReplyDeleteHe failed this show
ReplyDeleteYou should've fixed the timelines of the shows, so we ARE getting a tease of the spin-off AWESOME!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Kreisberg and Berlanti failed this show by abandoning it.
ReplyDeleteAnd no, "epic", "game-changing" or "the show will never be the same" either.
ReplyDeleteI'm shocked!
I know, lol. Marc must have taken a sedative before this interview. Though he did say the team will be "Fractured". Maybe this is his new word from that word of the day calender on his desk.
ReplyDeleteIs Oliver supposed to show up in the flash 1x22? I thought it was just 1x23 and that's what it seems like he's talking about in this interview A 3x23 followed by Flash 1x23. If that's the case it doesn't mess with the continuity because it's Flash 1x22 tonight, arrow 3x23 tomorrow and flash 1x23 next week correct?
ReplyDeleteI could be missing something because I'm new to these shows worlds but that's how I'm understanding the situation right now
Actually, I could see how it would be looked on as a satisfying conclusion. Green Arrow is really a solo character, so perhaps 'Team Arrow' is just that....a team for The Arrow and Ollie chooses to be on his own while embarking on the identity that is Green Arrow.
ReplyDeleteI think Marc is speaking just on the chronology numbered episodes so when watching Arrow 3x23, it does work that The Flash goes from the Arrow's season finale straight to The Flash's own season finale. But in terms of continuity, I think the timeline will look like Arrow 3x23, Flash 1x22, Flash 1x23.
ReplyDeleteOliver appears along with Ronnie Raymond on Flash tonight (1x22).
ReplyDeleteIf the Oliver/Nyssa marriage (how ever long it lasts before its annulled) kills any further continuation of Olicity, I'm all for it. I don't think the season has been the huge failure that many of the online fandom believe, but the entire Olicity arc has totally damaged the portrayal of the Felicity character in my opinion. EBR is good in the role, but the Season 3 direction hasn't done her or the character any favors. The constant shouting, attitude and cry-speaking has worn thin. It was okay in 3x01, but it got tiring quickly thereafter. The character was much more tolerable in her three Flash appearances.
ReplyDeleteSo if Oliver and Felicity end up together, Diggle and Lyla move out to live away from Starling, Laurel go training with Nyssa or something like that, I think that could be called a Series finale.
ReplyDeleteSo he goes from abandoning them to save his sister, to abandoning all of them just to become his solo identity? That's not exactly what I would see as satisfying.
ReplyDeletePerhaps not his choice, but then again I always viewed the beginning of season four will be Green Arrow and Speedy and then it'll be Diggle and Felicity working with Black Canary.
ReplyDeleteIn an episode titled "I am Oliver Queen," taking on another identity evolution doesn't seem likely.
ReplyDeleteThe ending Guggenheim is implying here seems nowhere near as optimistic is what you are speculating.
ReplyDeleteThere is no identity evolution. This is what makes Batman and Green Arrow polar opposites in that, Green Arrow is about the man while Batman is about the mission and with The Arrow, it had that Batman feel because it was all wrong(the idea that any one can wear the hood as what Ollie mentioned back in S1 or that Ollie views saving Starling City as his 'mission' which has been referenced throughout the three seasons)...Green Arrow is Oliver Queen and Oliver Queen is Green Arrow. Him pronouncing his identity as Oliver Queen actually makes certain leaps and bounds for him to now become Green Arrow.
ReplyDeleteThe Green Arrow you referenced in your first post is, as you said, a solo character and that guy isn't showing up until the series is actually over. There's no Arrow without Team Arrow so there's no "embarking on the identity that is Green Arrow."
ReplyDeleteI guess saying it like that would be confusing, but I didn't mean it like that. That was the only way I could word it out to make sense of Ollie starting his journey as the Green Arrow. No, I don't see Ollie having to 'create' another identity as Green Arrow because he's closer than ever to become Green Arrow after pronouncing his name to the world(in this case, to Ra's).
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't say it will happen until after the series is over, though. S4 has heavily suggested that Oliver Queen will be Green Arrow next season.
Well, honestly, as long as It really is Green Arrow and Speedy together, I'll be fine with that. Also since I've been waiting for that for quite a while now.
ReplyDeleteIt is F1x22, A3x22, A3x23, F3x23 i think.
ReplyDeleteIn Flash Oliver asks Barry for help, Barry helps the team at the end of 3x22/beggining of 3x23 and he can't stay because he must go to do whatever happens on Flash 1x23.
After last night's episode, I agree. Didn't think Flash saving the rest of Team Arrow would be part of the favor....but now it all makes sense. Furthermore, I think Ollie showing up in Central City is before he arrives at Starling to bring back Nyssa because you'd think while Lyla is away with Sara that she wouldn't be able to help Cisco with A.R.G.U.S. matters.
ReplyDelete