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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

Arrow - Producers Had Big Plans For Harley Quinn

May 24, 2015

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Thanks to Mac for the heads up.
Harley Quinn looks set to take a starring role in next year’s supervillain ensemble Suicide Squad, but prior to Margot Robbie’s casting we did get a tease of Harley being part of Task Force X with a brief cameo appearance in The CW’s hit DC show Arrow.

As it happened, this cameo in the second season proved to be Harley’s sole appearance in the show and it seems that her inclusion in the Suicide Squad movie has prevented the Arrow producers from exploring their own plans for Miss Quinzel, with Willa Holland (Thea Queen) stating at MCM London:

“We had big plans for Harley. But, I guess something came down from DC execs that told us to shut it down. I mean we had that tease with the pigtails and the ARGUS outfit but, we’ll never see it. We would love to Harley in Arrow but it will never happen.”

124 comments:

  1. Christopher DeBonoMay 24, 2015 at 2:46 AM

    Ugh we were so close to getting best girl

    https://youtu.be/x8VV2i-vqsE?t=105

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  2. DC messing up Arrow's plans again? I'm shocked I tell you, just shocked.

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  3. They had cupid instead. Which is *shudders*...... F.U DC Cinematic Universe.

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  4. When I found the article I was both sad and angry but yet not surprised.


    At this point I'm more inclined to blame Arrows lack of quality even more on DC throwing rocks at it than overexposure of redundant plotlines that didn't further the story (aka. Olicity).




    DC.....you could use Arrow, LoT and The Flash as FREE CROSS-PROMOTION for your cinematic universe! Don't treat it like dirt -,-

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  5. Well, I already knew about this, but it still pisses me that DC is restricting Arrow so much creatively

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  6. DC keeps f*cking up their tv shows in favour of the (posibly crappy) movies. I seriously dont see the problem with sharing the same characters as long as the actors and their portrayal of the character is different.

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  7. Yeah didn't DC say that all their projects aren't connected and each is their seperate universe? If that's the case can't there be two different versions of the same character...

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  8. I'm still saying that they should have made that movie with the games engine.


    Would've been a neat experiment, trying to make a movie in 3D instead of the constant 2D. (Especially since Arkham Origins looked gorgeous)

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  9. because we will get oh so confuuuuuused




    Didn't you know? DC thinks that we're all stupid

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  10. I wonder if TSS will mess up Gothams eventual plans for The Joker.

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  11. not being able to use deadshot is much worse not to mention the only link to HIVE

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  12. I'm telling you, this Suicide Squad movie better be damn good. I wish DC TV shows and films could be used in better harmony than this; I feel like the shows keep getting the shaft, when other than the Nolan movies, I've enjoyed the DC TV universe far more than the films.

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  13. it make no sense though as not everyone will watch DCTV over the movies anyway.

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  14. I don't watch Gotham anymore but Gotham seems to be a producers darling as they got to use quite a few big characters.

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  15. Of course it doesen't make sense but DC is that sensitive.


    Some people speculated that Will Smith had a clause in his contract that prohibited other actors to portray "his" character but I'm going to say it's DC being a DiC

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  16. The separateness of the DC cimematic and TV universes is so ridiculously stupid that everything that can be said has been, so it bears no repeating.


    All I know is in 10 years we will all look back at this era and laugh at the sheer scope of the squandered opportunity DC had. There really are no words for it.

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  17. it's kinda hilarious how DC is literally giving away free promotion for Suicide Squad.


    They could easily use the Suicide Squad heavily on Arrow/Flash/LoT in 2016, feature the characters heavily in promos and create buzz around the team but nooooooo

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  18. Remember when Spiderman 3 sucked because it had too many villains? Suicide Squad is full of villains with their own unique motivatons. So I'm not sure there has ever been a movie that worked despite having too many villains.

    Of course the situation could be different because they all are meant to be "good guys" in that but I can't see something with so many unique villains work.

    Probably will turn out like this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8

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  19. Throwing away free promotion is just so utterly insane that I guarantee this will be a case study in film schools of the future as to how NOT to do things. The astounding potential of cross promotion they had in The CW series, Supergirl and the Cinematic element is just immense. To not use it in any way is the definition of insanity.


    To any future Business students that may see this; Do the opposite of what DC is doing. Trust me.

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  20. It's just really odd because I don't recall DC ever being so stuck up as they currently seem to be.


    It did take Marvel a Disney buy-out to get its groove back so maybe the problem lies with Warner?

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  21. A very apt comparison.

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  22. I wonder if DC didn't scew with the original arrow plan to use Blue beetle it would fun to see with all the easter eggs that were planted

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  23. That's what I'm thinking. Because WB is it's own entity, trained from corporate birth to work with no other, it seems like they are the road block to their own success. I believe it did take Disney buying Marvel to bring the worlds together as having IP belonging to separate entities that are loathe to work together seems to only hinder the creative process.

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  24. also you can never have too many Cooks...and Snarf

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  25. They did screw with it. Ray was originally supposed to be Ted Kord

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  26. Of course they screwe with it. Remember, to DC our sub 80 IQ brains would never pick up on the easter eggs and if we did, we would just be confused.

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  27. God I wish they still had Deadshot in Arrow. I grew up in the same town as the actor that plays Deadshot (he is a couple years older). He was in one of my favorite loal bands Bucket Truck. Saw their first show and until their last and met Mike many times back in the day. He was/is a great drummer.

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  28. if we are lucky DC will allow a pre-green lantern Hal Jordon in season 4 flashback to be Oliver's trainer to fly a plane......

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  29. But he won't be allowed to be called Hal, and he will have to fly a hang glider, not a plane, and he won't be allowed to reference the colour green in any dialogue and...

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  30. I'm hoping they decide not to use Barry Allen or Hal Jordan. They could use Wally (or anyother speedster) and John Stewart instead. That way we could have a green lantern spinoff.

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  31. And instead, we get to see Harley parade around a "damaged" teenager who feels like the adults don't get him....

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  32. Arkham Origins looks gorgeous, but the game still sucked, lol.

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  33. They should never have killed off Moira. Her character was never fully exploited, especially her shady side. Susannah Thompson was also one of the program's better supporting actors and Steve Amell needs a lot of support.

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  34. Olicity wasn't originally planned. Felicity was supposed to have appeared only briefly. However, she attracted such a positive viewer response that they made her a full time character. One of her more significant contributions has been to lighten the program's intensely dark atmosphere. I have little doubt that her presence has also attracted a significant number of viewers who wouldn't necessarily care about the usual DC Comics carnage. Besides, the CW is known for promoting a lot of shipping, so why would Arrow be an exception?

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  35. Yup, that's very true. Unfortunately. I'm just holding out hope mainly because A) I want to have a good reason to have lost these characters and B) this is probably the only live-action Harley Quinn we're going to see for a while. I really want her and her movie to be good.


    Also, that's a really good comparison, but now I have "Too Many Cooks" stuck in my head again.

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  36. It also didn't help that Ollie and Laurel have ZERO romantic chemistry.

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  37. Totally agree. I miss the character and the actress on the show. Her presence gave the show a certain gravity that's now missing.

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  38. There's alot of copy rights goes on with dc/warner the familys sue warner/dc all the time so there's alot goes on what we think sometime the courts have to give WB/dc the ok sometime on stuff

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  39. Christina SherwoodMay 24, 2015 at 5:39 AM

    I've noticed that there have been a few "bad chesmistry" pairings for CW shows, Arrow wasnthe first, Laurel is just a horrible character all around but yea ZERO sexual tension between the actors, like not even a tiny bit. Then Iris on the Flash, not quite as bad as Laurel because her character isn't completely irritating, but again there really isn't any chemistry with her & Barry. Then with the premiere of iZombie, Major is just a train wreck of a character, gotten a bot better but again lead love intestest & zero tension. Whoever the people in charge of casting are for these show, they are failing harcore when it comes to chemistry testing their leads.

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  40. the only thing I do, besides full belly laugh, is to look at this to know just what a floating piece of shit DC is - http://hasdcdonesomethingstupidtoday.com/

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  41. You're right they were not the plan n it, makes sense because they r nothing but a blip on the radar the story is O/L. The one thing this season especially the finale has shown is that Iris n Laurel r the destinies of both Barry n Oliver. I don't blame Olicity for anything more than being a delay tactic. The shows on the CW are famous for this not to mention Berlanti shows always play this card just check out Everwood or even Brothers n Sisters.

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  42. I wont count on O/L Oliver did stuff Laurel wont forgive him for and like others say Oliver and have zero romantic chemistry

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  43. To each it's own because that's exactly how I feel about O/F. They do nothing for me but then again I also shipped another couple known as Dan/Serena who some felt had no chem either so Ollie/Laurel r in good company.😀

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  44. Ok if laurel can forgive Oliver for sleeping with her sister while he dating her and working with her killer very closely then ok i have nothing against you or anything its nice to share a different opinon

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  45. Btw just asking but what did he do that's so unforgivable? Because doing Sara ain't it because if anything that's more proof of how they r written straight from daytime soaps. Lol

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  46. I agree it's sick but that's how they roll. Lol like I said I don't agree but that won't be something they won't have her either justify or just get over. N yeah it's cool to have different opinions n take on things.

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  47. The problem with Olicity is that they didn't seem to bother wanting to write a compelling arc with them and just went "people like them together, so there's that"


    Almost every review of the season and the finale mentions how Olicity sucked the life out of Felicity, and other problems, but at least the vocal fans are happy, and that's the validation Guggenheim seems to want.


    I just really hope next season they put an effort on that relationship.

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  48. That's just subjective. I won't lie and tell you I believe they were the hottest thing on screen (I just didn't care) but Olicity does even less for me. To think even Helena had more sexual chemistry with Oliver is weird.


    But the point is, chemistry is subjective; now, lousy writing, that's more empirical common ground. Neither Lauriver nor Olicity have been well written, so I just don't really think these writers can write a good romantic relationship.

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  49. What some people need to get use to what was canon in pre 52 wont be in the show because smallville the is example that tv writers afraid to go against what was canon

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  50. The TV shows fuck themselves. No need help. Gotham is a joke, Arrow turned to crap this year and Constantine is cancelled. No wonder why WB has no faith in these shows.

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  51. Urgh I don't want Laurel back with Oliver, she deserves better. But not gonna lie, their scenes where they fight and snarl and throw shit at each other at least give me an emotional engagement compared to Olicity's CW-ness drama; that makes me feel nothing but "hueh"

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  52. Just use the Harley Quinn ripoff instead. "I am Cupid, stupid." lol Thats how lame Green Arrow villains are.

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  53. I understand why they killed her, and it had a pay off, but they never brought another actor and character with the same gravitas; there's no one in the show now with a similar presence; that's the bummer for me.

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  54. True but it's also the D.C. bible that's a issue too. Look I'm not saying O/L is the ideal story because it's so not but they will play with them again for no other reason than it's story. N this show has a lot more seasons to go.

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  55. Its a five or six seasons show so time is running out

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  56. This is all just subjective; you will find different opinions.You neither can put all the brunt on lack chemistry when the writing forces distrust and estrangement between two characters. Natural chemistry is an important plus, but it can be created through compelling storytelling.


    Not even all the chemistry between Oliver and Felicty has saved Olicity from being considered one of the worst aspects of the season, at large across multiple sites.

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  57. Do you really think they will even dare to break up Olicity when the producers seem aching for their fanbase?

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  58. Here's hoping because I so don't want to do the 10 seasons thing Smallville nearly wrecked me because they took delaying a couple to a whole new level. Lol

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  59. DC and their "brand diluting" nonsense gets me so mad.

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  60. The thing is the guy who started the show want it to a five year show to tell the story oliver queen/ green arrow but the cw have the actors under a six deal with the network

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  61. And yet another great thing ruined the movie universe

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  62. Yeah I do. I mean think about it. It's story n at the least they will play with them which means a triangle. She's the Black Canary n he will become Green Arrow from just storytelling they will revisit that story. My girl hasn't been laid since Oliver Queen WHY she isn't allowed to get over him. Just like F had to hurt Ray n choose Ollie. These women r not allowed to get over n not want Oliver mainly because he's the lead n every woman at some point has to want him.

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  63. break up Olicity and you will see some delusional fan on social media put death trheats on the actors/producers....

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  64. He is the Serena VanderWoodsen of Arrow. Lol They all have to want him whether they get him or not is debatable but they all have to want him especially the ones who push him away n Laurel pushed that man away after Tommy died.

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  65. Oh God 6 years? Well I guess that's not too bad. Lol

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  66. it hurts more losing deadshot and Katana to the SS movie

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  67. Yeah, because the last thing you want when you're about to come out with a movie about a character is for people to have just watched a bunch of television episodes about that character so that they can be interested in them and want to see more!


    .... wait....

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  68. That happens all the time on social media with actor/producers nothing new

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  69. Yeah but that happens all the time. What u didn't see the craze over some of the GG couples. Lol in fact the more insane the fans get the more the writers relish it because it shows passion plus this network in particular lives for triangles. That I as straight playtime for them.

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  70. I can see that, so vividly. Tragic indeed.

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  71. The key word there is "had", so what's the point in even elaborating on "what could have been" Seems pretty irrelevant to me, especially since they made it clear over and over in season 2, that they cameo was all we were going to get. I don't see the point of them bringing it up AGAIN, seeing as how this movie is coming out and she won't be used AGAIN....again, anyway.

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  72. Ohhh that is sad. HQ is an interesting character. I used her in fanfic. But not really surprised DC c*ck blocked Arrow. It's such a shame cause there aren't that many great noSPN characters in the comic world.
    I really hope they want skip on Hal Jordan or at least give us Carol Ferris for the Coast city fbs.

    My guess about Ted Kord is that they intend to do a solo show about him later on, when Arrow comes near to an end. Why do I think that cause there are no plans for him to appear in the movies, at least no official revealed plans, and he is quite the popular character. So let me dream this. Also I like his story as I used him in another fanfic.

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  73. I do think Laurel is pretty much over Oliver, and I am okay with it.


    GA and BC weren't even romantically involved in Smallville, an adaptation doesn't have to follow the romantic pairings of the comic. It would be nice, but I do think that ship sailed here.


    What I think will happen, is that we will keep getting Olicity not being able to be together FOR SOME REASON intermitently, until the end of the series where they will live happily ever after. Everyone involved in the show seems as much in love of Olicity as the fans of tge pairing, so I just can't see it ending.

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  74. Yeah tragic. Lol Look all I am saying is that Laurel wanting that man again is a given now whether or not if she gets him. Time will tell but there is no doubt about her wanting to get up on that again. It's just a matter of when not if. I'm just hoping that they give my girl a love interest in S4 because there r some fine add actors out there that she can be playing with in the meantime.

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  75. It should be separate. But unfortunately DC for some
    Idiotic reason still restricts them.

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  76. She's not over him they won't let her be over him. Look all I'm saying is that Ollie is the MAN on this show so this girl is no exception she will want him again. As for O/F I think they dont breakup but I do see Laurel n her "feelings" being thrown right in the middle which will give us a dreaded triangle.

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  77. I'm not going to lie to you; thematically, Oliver and Laurel CAN work, specially now that they have both become vigilantes; they have matured a lot since they were together, they are not the kids they were, so letting bygones be bygones, it would be two totally different people starting a new relationship on a completely new ground; yet, still knowing the people they were before.


    It can work.


    I doubt this writers could make it work, specially with how pandering they have been to a ship.


    But we agree in something, Laurel needs some lovin; I'm glad that Ted's actor wasn't around to follow on that romantic plot, it gave Laurel a year to be herself. But I'm 100% on board of Laurel getting it on with some delish man meat.

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  78. DC/WB need to sort out the legal side of thiing's first before they can really take off in TV/Movie medium. a lot of the people DC bashing, don't understand that they are still sorting out author rights from the early days and this is whats keeping characters off dual shows/movies. there was another thread a few months ago with people bashing DC because they were still sorting this out, when its Warner bros that are stopping the royalties.

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  79. Its not so much DC stopping them because they just only want them on 1 stint at a time. Its the legal author rights issues that are going on with DC/Warner and the character creators, DC pushed heavily for more royalties for the creators.

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  80. I really think they are done. Oliver was a douche to her in season 2 by getting back with Sara and then telling Laurel he was done, and then Laurel in season 3 tells him she can't remember a time when she loved him.


    Could they make resurface those feelings? yeah, but right now, they are done, they are both over the other, as they have been written.


    And personally, the way Oliver is written, I really don't even see Laurel falling for him.

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  81. It's not really about falling for him again it's about never really being over him in the first place. Actually that line about can't remember ever being in love is even more proof that their story isn't done. Who says that to a man that they claim they r so over especially on tv/fiction it's straight up soapy melodrama. Lol Ollie n Laurel r harsh with each other no doubt it but they still get under each other's skin they still know how to hurt each other n for that reason alone there is just too much feeling involved they need to become indifferent towards one another then I will say there's nothing there. But they r not indifferent Ollie barks at her like some junkyard dog n she lives for pushing his buttons, they r fucked up but they r not just two people who I would call over. They act like exes too much for me t o think that it would be better If they could just be friendlier.

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  82. You are plain wrong. Zack Snyder mentioned in an interview that Ted Kord and many less known DC characters are going to be used in DCCU.

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  83. I don't understand the way DC works. Since the TV universe and the Cinematic universes are obviously not connected and since both share some characters such as the Suicide Squad, Amanda Waller, the flash etc why NOT allow the TV shows to do whatever they hell they want. It wouldn't ruin anything since the two are not the same canon. I would have loved to see Harley on Arrow and it would not have changed my desire to also see her on the big screen. Instead of screwing the writers/producers and restricting them from what characters they can or cannot use maybe they should let them do their own thing while the movies do their own

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  84. Really? I didn't hear anything about TK.I heard a bunch of other characters but didn't hear them mention TK at all.

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  85. hey it has zero chemestry for you, Lauliver is my OTP

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  86. Nah, I really don't see either still in love with the other.

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  87. Verónica TolisanoMay 24, 2015 at 9:05 AM

    C' mon people!! Let's be real, Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards have the best chemistry i've ever seen, like off the charts. If they break it off it would be a huge mistake. I'm not saying this just because i ship them but i really like how they work together. Katie Cassidy is an amazing actress but she just has cero chemistry with Stephen. I think they could be end game, and there is an example in the CW. In TVD books Elena and Damon don't end up together, Bonnie and Damon do but because Nina Dobrev and Ian Somerhalder have good chemistry they are puting up with Dullena, which i totally hate by the way, not taking into account that Nina left and maybe Bamon can happen. I'm praying for not having a love triangle between O/L/F in Arrow.

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  88. so agree. I feel bad for shipping Kara/Jimmy on CBS Supergil already because I know it'll not be endgame :(. They have a lot of chemistry thou, in my opinion. Too bad they are not endgame. Maybe I'll like Night Wing, Red Hood or Shazam. Those are her 3 possible endgames. I still ship Karolsen for now. It'll hurt when it'll be over. If the show will survive first. Hope so.

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  89. Yeah... seem incredibly stupid to me. Either they're linked or they're not, and if they're not linked (which seems to be obvious due to the double-ups of characters) then what's it matter?

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  90. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flu5WBe9Vpg That all we want to see If next time show will called GREEN ARROW. Now I can't see anything like this in this show

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  91. Well, maybe now they can focus on Green Arrow's own rogue gallery instead of desperately cling to Batman's.

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  92. Suicide squad better be REALLY FUCKING GOOD
    and worth all this bullshit of limiting the tv shows in favour of a cinematic universe that has barely been established yet

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  93. I agree, but the problem is they've already used many of the most prominent Green Arrow rogues. He doesn't have a big gallery to begin with.

    Merlyn = Still around
    Constantine Drakon = Throwaway chief of security for Adam Hunt in the pilot
    Hannibal Bates/Everyman = Used on the Flash
    Deathstroke = Used in S2, orginally a Teen Titans villain but had a few scuffles with GA

    Brick = Used in S3

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  94. He may not have a large gallery of villains, but it's the producers fault for using GA villains in throwaway episodes instead of developping them properly - bar Merlyn. Arrow has always tried to be Batman 2.0 - from the villains down the characterisations -, and now that it hit a plateau they suddenly seem to remember GREEN Arrow and head towards a different mood. It's just so transparent.

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  95. That it is, so now that they've wasted all of GA's own gallery plus whatever Batman stuff they could get their hands on. I guess they'll have to borrow from other entities with some small connection to Green Arrow such as Birds of Prey or Teen Titans (HIVE for S4)

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  96. Sigh.

    I do feel people look at the whole "issue" the wrong way. If Arrow spent more time developping its villains, thus making them more iconic, it would have an impact on the cinematic universe, like Batman The Animated Series had - to some extent.

    I can't blame DC for saying no, once in a while. They did the same thing when Smallville wanted to feature Bruce Wayne... which ironically led to Green Arrow's inclusion in the show - and ultimately gave us Arrow.

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  97. I liked Olicity much better before it got all angsty and weird in Season 3 with Felicity crying all the time. In Season 1 and 2, their relationship had a lightness and fun to it that was a nice counter to all the Laurel/Oliver drama. But yes, you are correct in regards to how the Arrow writers don't really do big romance very well or subtly.

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  98. I just think someone asked at this Fan meet/comic con if HQ would appear on the show and Willa elaborated what happened.
    Honestly this news broke this boring period till the summer shows appear and real spoilers come up.
    But I know this hits close to U as U like the character.

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  99. Historical_MaterialistMay 24, 2015 at 2:27 PM

    I'm going to say this again. Agree or don't: I don't f*cking care.


    1) DC movies have made hundreds of millions of dollars. They have been VERY, VERY successful. Suicide Squad will also be very successful. That's the primary focus.


    2) Contrary to popular opinion on this site: CW tv shows are NOT...GOOD. They are barely, barely passable as entertainment. They just get the job done. There is no such thing as a movie exec anywhere in the world that wants to shoot for mediocrity. They want the best movie they can make. So using mediocre actors from mediocre TV shows is not in their best interest. Why do you think Tom Welling was never, ever in the running for Superman Returns?


    3) The CW shows make some money for DC. Why do you think DC tolerates the many changes from the comics that is does? Because there is a market for these shows and its making them some money.


    4) DC Comics is the oldest comic book publishing company in the US. They have a long and proud history of publishing some the greatest comic book characters in history. At the heart of it all these are comic book guys. Deep down they tolerate the CW shows but really they are somewhat embarrassed by them.


    So please, we get it. Many of you think that not integrating the universes is stupid and makes you "so mad". At the end of the day they don't really care for the reasons I've outlined. So please: shut the f*ck up about it. Its getting stale. Just enjoy the shows you like. That's all.

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  100. Nicolás Caballero MühlbachMay 24, 2015 at 2:34 PM

    Stupid movie...

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  101. 1.) However Man of Steel performed below expectations


    2.) I agree, CW shows are semi-okay


    3.) Some being key here, not much but some


    4.) of course they're emberassed, that's why they cut Berlantis forcefull integration of Diggle and Felicity as quick as they could




    no one wants integration. We just want them to use characters freely without restrictions

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  102. Considering Kreisberg had those two killed by Cupid in the comics I'm.....not going to hold out much hope for an apperance.

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  103. I don't mean to be a prick or something, but... You're totally defending them for saying no from time to time, when that's totally not even the case of what this is about. They did already say yes, but they reconsidered, and that's whay I think is just weak. And for me personally, it mostly shows they have barely to NO trust in the movie itself at all.


    If they do it with something that appeared over three seasons in Arrow all of a sudden, then who is to say they won't just take Barry away when they feel like it with the Flash movie?


    Apart from that, stop, whining, about, the, batman thing... Seriously, we get it, saying it like a gezillion times, won't make it any more or less true, you know? Sure there were some of those things in there, but seeing as Batman together with Superman has almost been the only spotlight filler for DC, can you freaking blame them? No, I don't blame them for that at all, because it's made for some interesting things.


    I do agree about the villains, but maybe we should look more closely at the John Barrowman love there that makes sure that Merlyn will never be the actual villain that he should be? But there's been plenty of villains that were plenty of developed, let's say... Deathstroke even a little bit too much?


    And if you guys really want the show to get better, than stop defending DC for being weak cowards and stop whining about the show. it's not like DC scrapping shit whenever they feel like it and have no faith in their other projects is going to make any of it better.


    But hey, they can scrap characters, and the batman shit you guys keep whining about, but when MG etc decide to just ignore the rules about the Lazarus Pit and all that, DC just allows that and all you guys are just more excited about that than pissed? How does that make sense?

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  104. If anything i became more aggrivated b/c i already knew this bs. And more annoyed with the movie more than i already am. And surely none of it helped with this Hellatus we're all going through! I'm just glad i have a few shows left. Before i'm 100% in hiatus mode. Long sigh!!

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  105. Arrow's villains: You say plenty of them were developped, but you only mention two of them. Also, considering what MG/Arrow has done with Deathstroke and Ra's... I can't blame DC for going back on their word and close the Bat-cookie jar. I doubt they would say no to Harley's appearance in a show like Gotham, but Arrow needs to be able to stand on its own feet instead of feeding of Batman's sloppy seconds - as hard it is to hear it.

    The Flash:
    Barry is the titular of his own successful show; they won't take him away. They didn't do with Smallville when Superman Return was released, I don't see why they would.

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  106. 1.) Even though for me personally, it finally gave me some respect back for Superman, which in all my years of living, I never had before, Mr. I-Love-Wearing-Underwear-Visibly. And honest to freaking god, 'expectations' and 'ratings' are a curse on this world that have no meaning at all, or they shouldn't, because it's total BS, and it's only centered around some overweight fat-dudes and what they watch, well OOOH, such a big woop-di-freaking-deal right? Are we ever going to go back to, if a movie was just actuall goiod? If people liked watching it? No, okay...


    2.) I agree that CW shows have a too big tendency to focus too much on random illogical hook-ups falling out of the sky and all that... But saying that these shows are semi-okay, especially when talking Arrow and the Flash, is seriously putting it overly mildly... They're still awesome, some of the best shows that have been on TV for the last few years, especially since your damn 'rating" BS keeps cancelling the best and most poential filled shows, for crap stuff that's rigged from the get go like The Voice, which you guys owe my country to begin with. So saying semi-okay, is just hilariously condescending, even after this season that was it's worst, I grant you that, but even then.


    Hm, Felicity has been forced down our throats this entire season over the top, pushing everyone's possible scenes until the end of the season, only so she could have more screentime... While I still think it would be somehow more fun if Diggle is just Diggle, instead of that rumor still going around about Green Lantern, which I've never really been much a fan of to begin with. But seriously, let's be honest here, that DC is NEVER going to let that happen. They had the chance to show that they had faith in both the shows and their crap upcoming movies, but I still think SO badly that they know themselves that the movies is going to suck, so why not sabotage one thing, to potentially SLIGHTLY make the other thing better right?


    I mean, how freaking cowardly is it anyway? Giving you permission one moment and for three seasons, than all of a sudden pulling it because your movie is gettign a bit closer? If they knew they were going to do crap like this, I'd say DC should just have connected the TV shows and movies to each other, but they already didn't do that, so they could have just kept it seperate and give that damn freedom, but no, they've shown multiple times now what an assholes they are, and how low their trust is obviously.

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  107. Also, people need to stop blaming DC for every issues Arrow has been having. Screenwriters are paid to write compelling stories in spite of producers' meddling... and while it doesn't make their jobs easier, that's why they're here for. I doubt DC made them put Black Canary in a corner, turn Merlyn into a pathetic villain, pushed for that whole Ollicity bs, etc.

    All the good writers went to The Flash anyway.

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  108. I think Mac meant forcing Digg and Felicity on the comics... wich was a disaster... like BAD! Kreisberg made two shitty runs of GA now.


    The last one was just BAD. There isn't other way to describe it. Especially coming from Lemire's incredible run.


    I keep thinking it's all about ego. Berlanti, Guggenheim and Kreisberg know that Digg and Felicity, two breakout characters, are theirs and they want to make them the center. I like both. Hell! Felicity is still my favourite character... But i don't want her near my comics!

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  109. I'm bit annoyed as well but still as U said this is nothing new.
    I enjoyed reading the comments here, always fun.
    The Hellatus is awful and the issue is that it barely started. I can't wait for TW, PLL and Mistresses to premiere so I would have something to watch again.

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  110. Major plot points on each Season of Arrow are planed by Berlanti and Kreisberg(who wrote one of the worst comics of the year with Green Arrow), alongside Guggenheim.


    The Arrow finale was written by Berlanti, Kreisberg and Guggenheim. The whole "the good writers are on Flash now" thing is just not real.


    Arrow's problem was the villain not being a present menace. It left too much screen-time to fill with sub-plots. The big bad wasn't Ra's but Oliver Queen himself, wich made Season 3 a character driven story; if you're not into that, then you will be disapointed.


    Arrow had more serious issues than a Laurel, Malcolm and Olicity. Those things were just colateral damage.

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  111. I'm into character-driven stories... when they're well-written and well-acted. The whole thing was weak and failed to work.

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  112. Again, because of the villain. This Season shuldn't have had 23 episode. Too much filler, too much dragged plot lines to fill the room until Ra's dares to appear again.


    Everything wrong with Season 3 of Arrow was a matter of filling screen time.

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  113. I just don't understand why writers feel the need to have a storyline stretched over 22+ episodes instead of having several arcs fitting into a bigger one; or have two seperate arcs, even.

    I feel like Arrow has been cheating long enough with those flashbacks. When you remove them and take a look at the A/B/C storylines, it's all very thin.

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  114. Christina SherwoodMay 24, 2015 at 5:02 PM

    I am an Olicity fan & yes I agree that their relationship was written really bad this year, then again I found this entire season to be a complete hot mess, especially after seeing how well The Flash was written/acted. I'm not a shipper by any means but I do find that a show can be seriously improved &/or damaged if a relationship between any of the core characters isn't handled well by the writers (aka pandering to the fans).

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  115. Well, as i was saying on another thread, Arrow Season 3 should have had adopted the Once Upon a Time model if they wanted to go with Ra's al Ghul: Have one big bad from 3x01 and 3x09, show us Oliver trying to see a life outside of The Arrow. Then kill Sara in 3x09 as a cliffhanger and have Ra's come into place from 3x10 going forward.


    On Season 3A you had 3x04 and 3x09 with The League/Ra's. That means 7 episodes where it was just villain-of-the-week. They needed to fill those episodes with some serialized elements. Laurel's 3 episode's training, Olicity, Laurel's "don't tell daddy just because i don't want to", Ray being there doing something uninteresting, etc.


    A romantic plot, at least to me, is just too minor of a factor. If you mesure the time spent on that, you'll see it's not too much in reality. But the lack of direction overall makes you see it like it's the only serialized plot on the show.


    Then you have the more serious problems:


    They felt the need to push Digg to be back to prop Laurel as BC and then Laurel was sent to the back for Digg. They couldn't manage three people on the field.


    Palmer started doing something in 3x18, that's 18 episodes since the premiere.


    And then, they pulled a Roy with Laurel, even if they said they weren't gonna do that: on 3x21 she was defeated by a mugger and had her ass kicked by 2 league members... But in 3x22 she fought 5 members at once? They did the same with Roy on 2x23...


    Leaving us to the worst of all: the pointless flashbacks that didn't do anything for the show.


    I still enjoyed it more than Flash, wich had a poor first half(until 1x09) and then a good second half, minus Iris and Eddie(Iris could have been so good, but they didn't let her do anything) and that horrible finale killed it to me.

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  116. I am okay with Harley Quinn not in Arrow. Her alone without Joker would have worked but not as well as with Joker. The thing I am not okay with is scraping Suicide Squad and Deadshot from Arrow. I will miss Deadshot and Katana on Arrow.

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  117. Exactly; even when the Flash sometimes (a lot of times) didn't do right by Iris, the romantic stuff was only one of the emotional set pieces. What vexed me most about how they wrote Olicity is that they made it the emotional centerpiece of the season (all other relationships for both characters being sidelined) and that woud have worked only if they had written the best loves story ever.


    Badly written romance is easier to swallow when you don't keep pointing at it; in fact, it might have not even be badly written if it didn't had to carry all of the emotional weight. I have given up hope they can write an awesome romance in this show, but they could still aim for writing a competent one and allow it to rest on the actors chemistry, and not in trite and cliched tension tropes.

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  118. They have ruined two relationships already, two where the opinion regarding with whom Ollie had more chemistry is divided. Yet still both relationships ended sucking.


    Yeah, the writing is the common factor denominator.

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  119. Who cares... The showrunners brag popularising characters such as Felicity and Diggle. Why can't they make their own 'Harley' that will pull an audience? You don't have to go for existing characters to make your storylines enticing, and it should never be used as an excuse.


    Also, Arrow just has a poor job at handling its popular villains. Look at what they did to Deathstroke amongst others. Dude was pretty much butchered.

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  120. I feel like the showrunners are using DC's cock-blocking skills as an excuse. Create interesting characters and go with interesting storylines. Olicity drags down the show A LOT. Why wait around for DC's permission to use characters when you can just go ahead and make your own that fit your show?

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  121. Her contribution of lightening the programs intensely dark atmosphere was maybe an excuse in season one. For the past season she's cried and shouldered about 70% of the shows angst. She was fun when she was a nerdy girl with a cute crush. The whole dynamic between them was destroyed when it got further than that, and the show has sucky elements as a result.

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  122. Hm, aah, of course, the comics... The ones that have been impossible to get in my country and stuff for decades, yeah those ones. Oh and the ones where Oliver originally got raped byt Shado so she could get pregnant? And other weird and stupid twists like that because they just can? Honestly, these shows are so many times better than the comics if you ask me, also because that's personal and no one that's ever made a comic has considered that people with a visual handicap might like to read it too, without having to zoom in ot it extremely bad, but okay, that's besides the point...


    And of course they would try that! How can you people understand DC scrapping whatever they want, but not understnad people that somewhat created characters, to leave that mark? Although I'm pretty sure Felicity already existed. And I liked her, until this season she was just annoying and only complaining about everything, while she jumped from Oliver to Ray and back, I'm sorry but I just missed actual fun and nice Felicity from the first two season, instead of this selfish one.


    And ooh, how incredibly terrible that they tried to do something and it didn't go perfectly, I mean, EVERY single thing that DC has done, both comic wise and cinemaverse wise, has always been SUPER extremely incredible without ANY problems at all, right? Is that what you're saying? Can't we just for once keep the comics and shows seperate as much as possible? Because there's still plenty of twists and weird things from the comics, I'd rather keep as far away as possible.

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  123. You really didn't get my point. Not gonna start a stupid argument. GA comics don't have much to do with the series, but they turned the comics into Arrow 2.0...
    I didn't say anything you wrote. That was just your imagination. Comics should be comics, series should be series and movies should be movies.
    The last comic run was BAD because they forced Digg and Felicity. It was Kreisberg's fault.
    I want the show away from the comics just like i want the comics away from the show...
    You just wrote a whole messege that has nothing to do with what i said.

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  124. Alice AkiHimemiya CannataJune 13, 2015 at 1:53 PM

    SOrry to say but I've started watching Arrow because of the Felicity character XD
    I know it's a stupid XD
    Furthermore I've always thought that Oliver had no chemistry with Laurel.. not even in S1|

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