I'M NOT CRYING, YOU'RE CRYING!!! Please, my Bobby!!!!!!!! I LOVE HIM THEN, NOW AND FOREVER!!!! What a episode!!!!!!! Team Sam, Castiel and Bobby, EPIC AND PERFECT TEAM!!!!!! I love everything of this episode!!!! Crowley, Rowena, Sam, Dean... EVERYTHING!!!! BEST SHOW EVER. Glad to see this Crowley, Hannah has disappointed me. ''Family don't end with blood'' is just... I want to cry :') Dean talking in spanish is soooo sexy. ''Gracias'' :P
LOVE IT!!! Bobby Back! Sam & Cas working together. Crowley kicking out his b*tch of a mother out. Bobby Back! Dean seeming calm and messing up his brother’s room but secretly terrified. Bobby Back! Beating up Metatron and taking his grace! The letter from Bobby making me cry.The angels better not hurt him! Just a really excellent episode. Bobby Back!!! Loved everything about it, especially Bobbybeing back (in case you couldn’t tell.)
This was my favorite episode of the season. So many little things worked for me that I didn't even care about what didn't. -Crowley got his manhood back -Rowena was left kicking rocks (I known she'll be back) -Cas sliced Metatron's throat and took his grace, Sam shot him in the leg. I felt vindicated. -Dean hustled those frat boys -Dean/Crowley talk was probably my favorite scene and Crowley was drinking a nice, frilly tropical drink at a dive bar with Dean taking shots. Loved it. -I'm not a fan of bringing back dead characters but that end scene with Sam reading Bobby's letter gave me the emotional touch for this show that I have been missing so much of. -There were so many quotes from this one, funny and sad, I'm going to have to re-watch just to write them all down.
Now that was a great Ep nothing to really bitch about Loved Bobby and Love Sam shooting metatron and bobby letter to Sam heartbreaking I really liked this Ep.
That was a good episode, but I can't help but think about all that time wasted between episodes 10 and 16. So much beating around the bush, so much filler, just to come back to Metatron, and discover he knew nothing. Mind you, watching him get bullied by Sam and Cass was extremely satisfying. Same goes for Crowley. So many terrible scenes with him and Rowena, and for what ? I'm glad Crowley is back, and I'm SO glad Rowena's been kicked out, but I feel like I wasted half a season. The writers could have done something much better with his character in that time. He did not evolve, he just got back to the way he used to be. The ending of the episode was heart-wrenching. I feel like Bobby got sacrified, and even he was happy to go down swinging, he doesn't deserve that.
Considering the lack of material the writers had for this season, it should have been 12 episodes long.
Loved it!! We can always count on Andrew Dabb to deliver great episodes! Funny, smart, and poignant to boot. Loved having Bobby back, and always enjoy Sam and Cas together. Dean and Crowley having a heart to heart was perfect. All around, a stellar episode.
Too much precious time wasted on Rowena but vast improvement over last week's snore fest. The Mark of Cain has been ignored for way too long. Can't wait to see what happens next for Dean
I was so proud of Dean. He told Crowley every single thing I've been yelling at the TV since Rowena showed up in Hell. It was really good seeing them talking like equals, not as opposing forces...they were interacting, not as hunter and demon, but as two guys ruminating on how things have gone. The fact that Dean actually gives Crowley compassionate advice, I feel, shows that some level of respect has grown there, and that Crowley IS part of TFW, whether they say it aloud or not....especially when Dean said, "family don't end with blood, and it doesn't begin there either." All I can say is, "it's about time."
And when Crowley told Rowena to piss off, it was the highlight of the episode for me. The fact that Crowley got Dean's side of the story rather than just reacting to his mother's psychological manipulations of his ego showed that he wasn't as susceptible to her influence as she thought. Good for him! Dare we hope that Crowley's starting to get his mojo back?
And his definitive, "I'm bloody CROWLEY....I'm the King of HELL!" ...I was like, YES!! I've been waiting for him to go all Crowley on her since she showed up. It's about time he starts remembering who he is, and I don't mean that just in the context of him being the King of Hell...I mean it in the context of him taking back his individual identity, the one she was trying to strip him of with all the "Fergus" and "I'm your mother" talk.
I can't say it enough. I lovedlovedLOVED this episode!
That was a fantastic episode! Little to no complaints about this one ;) A+++ I was expecting a bigger fight scene between Rowena and Dean, but oh well, still excellent Yanking Metatron's grace... saw it coming, but still w2g Castiel!!!!! Awesome way to get Metatron to do what you want! Sam actually did something this time!!! Not too much, but still it was great to see him coming up with idea to contact Bobby. CROWLEY FINALLY GREW SOME!!!!!! So happy to see that he stood up against Rowena, but that means that she will probably come back angrier, and more vengeful. She still is after Sam and Dean and I'll bet that will become a big part in the next coming episodes. I have a hunch that she is going to find Gavin and use that to her advantage. Either way, I am glad to see that she will actually be doing something other than ruining a great character! There were some excellent comedic moments in this episode, too many to name Best lines of the night: "Squirrel" "Hey Boris, where Natasha?" I was sooooo waiting for either Sam or Dean to use that line, and Yep... it was awesome! And best of all: BOBBY!!!!!!!!!! I don't care if it was a one episode cameo..... It was great to see the character again :) Once again, it was a great episode! Single man tear everyone!
BOBBY SINGER BACK IN FULL FORM HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he said "Balls" and "Idjits"!!!!!!! Castiel and Sam taking Metatron's grace was so AWESOME!!!!! and he got shot!!!! finally Crowley kicked out Rowena and it definitely felt like Dean called Crowley family
I enjoyed this episode. (Finally). Crowley got his balls back and told his mom to GTFO! And Bobby's letter to Sam was the best thing about this episode. I had to hold back the tears. I miss you Bobby, you did great. And thanks for the parallel with Ellen. That made me smile.
There were some great lines. Besides the one you mentioned I also liked when Metatron called Castiel, "Ass-tiel." LOL Metatron is a full frontal dick but I still found that funny. Also liked when Cas said to Metatron: "Sam will..how do you say? Blow your freaking head off." Lmaooo that was great. (Castiel was great tonight). But I think my favorite line of the night was when the Psychic called Metatron a Hobbit! Lmaoooo I laughed so hard. That was good stuff tonight.
Ummm, so I am guessing that you didn't see the two episodes that he was in????? You may want to watch the two episodes that he is in "Weekend at Bobby's" and "King of the Damned" I am sooooo hoping for another appearance
FINALLY a great season ten Supernatural episode. Crowley is no longer going to tolerate the loathsome Rowena's bullshit, Dean seems to have better control over The Mark (even though hello demon eyes!), and we got Bobby! Squee! I have to admit that I wasn't surprised that Bobby's Heaven featured Kenny Roger's The Gambler and a bunch of whiskey. Considering his prior unintentional reveal to Dean (in Veritas) that he loves Tori Spelling, I thought it was a brilliant to have him reading her book.
Now on to the thing that kinda bothered me but didn't take away from my enjoyment of the episode. We've seen glimpses of other dead character's version of Heaven. We've even seen Sam and Dean move through Heaven. Ash's Heaven was Harvelle's and Pamela was able to come for a visit. When they exited, they were not behind some prison like solitary confinement. My question is, what up with that? Was Ash simply hiding in Heaven and not where he was supposed to be "confined for eternity"? If that's the case, why was he in his version of Heaven? I know that he had warding to hide from the angels but that doesn't explain Pamela being able to just come on over for a visit if each has a confined space. Also, with names written on the doors, wouldn't it be easy to find John and Mary Winchester if one were inclined to do so. In related news, someone really needs to do that.
Maybe they can wash this away and say that things changed after Metatron became a great big back of dicks or that if was fall out from the angel war. Regardless, it's another plot hole I want explained. Add it to where the frak is Crowley's time traveling soon and what the hell happened to Kevin Tran; did he move on when the gates of Heaven opened or is he still a spirit?
As much as I enjoyed the episode (and the potential for more Bobby), I need those issues resolved. Am I the only one with this problem? Maybe I was supposed to forget all of that stuff but I've been watching from the beginning and have binge watched the entire season several times over the years. I'm just tired of plot holes and inconsistencies. Also, my OCD won't allow me to forget it.
the changes in heaven good have been brought about because of the angel war and metatron's former control of heaven. what i found strange was that bobby's heaven didn't include his wife karen. she should have been there.
but i did thoroughly enjoy the show. loved watching dean play the frat boys, loved seeing more interaction between sam and cas, and really, really, really loved seeing bobby and his connection at the end with sam. i hope sam takes bobby's advice and fills dean in on what is going on.
and i don't think dean was referring to crowley as family. i think dean was setting crowley straight on what family meant.
It was really nice to see Bobby again, and this was one of the stronger episodes of the season. I'm not feeling quite the same squee as other people seem to be feeling for reasons of ongoing issues I've been complaining about for a while:
- lack of continuity in portraying Heaven (remember everyone sees a road?) or Hell. And angels need intercoms now? They don't communicate telepathically in heaven?, - the lack of introduction of a supporting character who interacts more with Sam (sorry, but the show never really put mulch effort in building a strong foundation for a relationship between Bobby and Sam, mostly Bobby and Dean, which lessens the impact of their scenes now). While the scene between them was nice and a step up from ignoring their relationship, I want equal treatment when it comes to having relationships with other characters, and I want Sam to have a circle of his own friends - not just Dean's hand-me-downs. I don't think that's too much to ask for. - Sam handing over the "rescue Dean" storyline to Cas mid-episode. On the one hand, I appreciate that they didn't make it canon that live humans can waltz into Heaven any time they want, on the other I wonder if this is a sign of what's to come - Sam's storyline when he finally gets one will be split between him whatever guest happens to be on that week (Cas, Charlie, ?). It also bugged the crap out of me that when Cas brought Metatron back to earth, Sam had barely any dialogue. I think he had one line, whereas the old Sam would have owned that scene. - lack of tension around Dean's MoC threat. I get why Sam is concerned but I don't know why I, the viewer, should be feeling any tension. - I didn't like that Dabb wrote Sam asking Bobby to do this for them, knowing that Bobby would likely be punished, and didn't bring up the consequences to him first. If Dean was being portrayed as a global threat then I might agree that Bobby needed to be asked to sacrifice himself, but from what I'm seeing, Dean's danger seems to be personal. It just reinforces an idea introduced in Weekend at Bobby's that the Winchesters are very self-centered around Bobby. - it also felt like Bobby was being a little too clairvoyant in being able to predict Sam's path - apparently he's been reading Carver's interviews too.
Aside from seeing Bobby again, what I liked were the emotional scene with Sam reading Bobby's letter and that Crowley has cut strings with Rowena. I'm mixed on Crowley becoming a Dean ally (liked him better as a villain). So much for the theory that Crowley was running a long con on Rowena. I'll have to rewatch after some time to see how I feel. But the fact that I'm even considering rewatching this one says a lot.
I don't think that Dean's talk with Crowley was referring to him as family either. He was simply setting him straight on Rowena (who I loathe with a fiery passion). Crowley is more a keep your friends close and enemies closer situation.
As for the changes in Heaven, did they ever address that? I know they mentioned changes due to the war in Heaven but I don't recall them ever saying that they basically put each person in solitary confinement for their own good. I want clarity on the issue. I also found it strange that Karen wasn't with Bobby since we've been told that soul mates spend eternity together. Maybe she was eliminated to keep Bobby firmly on Team Winchester should they come a knocking. I read an interview with Jim Beaver yesterday and he brought that up as well. He didn't understand why Karen wasn't with Bobby and joked that maybe she was tired of cleaning up after him.
As with you, I really hope that Sam shares the events of this episode with Dean. I think Dean needs to know. Just knowing that he could possibly have contact with Bobby in the future may give him much needed hope.
The first time she died Bobby killed her because she had a demon in her and he didn't understand what happened to her. The second time she died Bobby killed her because Death had raised her from the dead and she started to turn bad. (I think I got that right.) After killing her twice he might have just wanted to leave her in peace in her version of heaven.
A post after my own heart! Haha! While this episode was a major step up from the horror that was last week's episode, like you, I'm not quite as enamored w/it as others appear to be. You listed many of my issues w/the episode, but esp. the lack of urgency w/the MOC story. I liked the scene of Sam running to Dean's room to find he's having a nightmare but . . . . . is that it? Sam said Dean was "worse" or "getting worse" . . . so are we supposed to see that b/c of his nightmare? Dean still controlled himself w/the frat boys and Rowena. I'm still not seeing a major issue w/the MOC. I don't see a problem w/it so all the fuss over it does nothing for me. Once Dean goes off and starts acting crazy, I'll care about the MOC, but for now, it's just a branding/tattoo on his arm, IMO.
Yup, we're on the same page. It was a good episode and had more of an old-school feel, but there are still some pretty big issues with this season (and the last few seasons) that need fixing before I can really feel excitement about this show.
On Rowena, check out the photos for the next episode. She's in a couple that I think are a little revealing on where this is heading.
Finally a good episode!!! I actually really enjoyed this episode. Some parts were weird, as in the Dean Crowly and the Anna part. However most of it was very enjoyable. I was hoping that Ash would of made an appearance. I am saddened that he didn't not that I am not happy with Bobby. I wish they would explain how Anna is back, I always assumed she was dead after Micheal exploded her into nothingness.
I am beginning to enjoy the idea of the mark staying on Dean permanantly and him learning how to use it and balance it over time. I think that would be a great plot device and would create some much needed momentum in the series to have some permanence in the changes that happen to the brothers. The idea of only God-like magic able to remove it made me think that the boys only feesable option is to go to Death. Which could also be very interesting. I am not a huge fan of Rewona and was hoping that Dean did kill her if nothing but to light a plot fire under Crowly's ass. However I guess we be stuck with her for now. Hopefully she will not become the big villain of the season.
1.) I get why Sam isn't telling Dean what was up with his trip to a French mime flick, but I'm not quite clear on why Dean was keeping mum about his encounter with Crowley and especially Rowena. Maybe he underestimated her because the MOC protected him from her spell, but "Rowena is Crowley's mom and she seems to be after me/us" could be important information if not juicy gossip.
2.) Could Crowley be playing good cop to Rowena's bad cop with Dean? I like to think of him as playing a long game, sort of biding his time to make a move. (A move for what, I don't know.) He went to chat with Dean (and I loved his fruity drink at the bar) AFTER he found out that Rowena is looking to remove the MoC.
3.) I think the whole season/show could be turned around if it turns out the only person who can get the MoC off is Lucifer. No end of the chaos that would ensue on all three planes if he could come back to the fold. It'd be fun.
3a.) I've sort of held a sort of secret hope that Sam, Dean, Cas and Crowley are slowly building towards a third (fourth?) afterlife for human souls that is for people who make a choice to be there, rather than a pre-ordained "paradise" (that looks kind of boring) run by angels or hell run by demons.
Yup. But i thought of Ellen, b/c it was more emotional, just like this one was with Bobby, and it's from their loved ones. And Ellen's death (and Jo's) was the last real emotional death in this series besides Bobby's. So the parallel made a lot of sense. It was more about the sentiment/situation than the actual line itself. Which is, what i think, they were going for. That's why it was so easy to catch.
Andrew Dabb hit it out of the ballpark. This is the kind of writing that we used to see regularly on the show, and now pretty much never do. Great script. The characterization was spot on. Sam was caring but badass. Cas had his edge back, had his clueless moments, but wasn't just comic relief. Crowley was great. Rowena dropped the simpering and chewing up the scenery. I was reminded of why Bobby was such a loss to the show. it was wonderful having him on and seeing his connection with Sam. Dean was great, but everyone pulled their weight.
Multiple story line eps have been so badly done this season, but Dabb showed how to do it. The pacing and editing too were terrific. I really enjoyed this episode. Best of the season. If only the other writers would learn from it.
I'm actually guessing that the entire plan was Sam's from finding the psychic and contacting Bobby, to stealing Metatron's grace and shooting him. I'd say that's quite a lot.
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
I'M NOT CRYING, YOU'RE CRYING!!! Please, my Bobby!!!!!!!! I LOVE HIM THEN, NOW AND FOREVER!!!! What a episode!!!!!!! Team Sam, Castiel and Bobby, EPIC AND PERFECT TEAM!!!!!! I love everything of this episode!!!! Crowley, Rowena, Sam, Dean... EVERYTHING!!!! BEST SHOW EVER. Glad to see this Crowley, Hannah has disappointed me. ''Family don't end with blood'' is just... I want to cry :') Dean talking in spanish is soooo sexy. ''Gracias'' :P
ReplyDeleteLOVE IT!!! Bobby Back! Sam & Cas working together. Crowley kicking out his b*tch of a mother
ReplyDeleteout. Bobby Back! Dean seeming calm and messing up his brother’s room but secretly terrified. Bobby Back! Beating up Metatron and taking his grace! The letter from Bobby making me cry.The angels better not hurt him! Just a really excellent episode. Bobby Back!!! Loved everything about it, especially Bobbybeing back (in case you couldn’t tell.)
This was my favorite episode of the season. So many little things worked for me that I didn't even care about what didn't.
ReplyDelete-Crowley got his manhood back
-Rowena was left kicking rocks (I known she'll be back)
-Cas sliced Metatron's throat and took his grace, Sam shot him in the leg. I felt vindicated.
-Dean hustled those frat boys
-Dean/Crowley talk was probably my favorite scene and Crowley was drinking a nice, frilly tropical drink at a dive bar with Dean taking shots. Loved it.
-I'm not a fan of bringing back dead characters but that end scene with Sam reading Bobby's letter gave me the emotional touch for this show that I have been missing so much of.
-There were so many quotes from this one, funny and sad, I'm going to have to re-watch just to write them all down.
And that`s why I love this show!
ReplyDeleteThis was the best episode in a long while.
ReplyDeleteSam and Cas working together without Dean is always a treat since it's not often.
Bobby was awesome as usual. I loved him starting a revolt and working with Cas. But nooooo… that ending! How much trouble is he in?
I usually hate seeing Metatron but he's being the punching bag so I'm good. He so deserves whatever he gets.
And I'm so glad Crowley kicked Rowena out. She wanted him to be the King of Hell well she got it. Just not the way she wanted it.
Now that was a great Ep nothing to really bitch about Loved Bobby and Love Sam shooting metatron and bobby letter to Sam heartbreaking I really liked this Ep.
ReplyDeleteThat was a good episode, but I can't help but think about all that time wasted between episodes 10 and 16. So much beating around the bush, so much filler, just to come back to Metatron, and discover he knew nothing. Mind you, watching him get bullied by Sam and Cass was extremely satisfying.
ReplyDeleteSame goes for Crowley. So many terrible scenes with him and Rowena, and for what ?
I'm glad Crowley is back, and I'm SO glad Rowena's been kicked out, but I feel like I wasted half a season. The writers could have done something much better with his character in that time. He did not evolve, he just got back to the way he used to be.
The ending of the episode was heart-wrenching. I feel like Bobby got sacrified, and even he was happy to go down swinging, he doesn't deserve that.
Considering the lack of material the writers had for this season, it should have been 12 episodes long.
Loved it!! We can always count on Andrew Dabb to deliver great episodes! Funny, smart, and poignant to boot. Loved having Bobby back, and always enjoy Sam and Cas together. Dean and Crowley having a heart to heart was perfect. All around, a stellar episode.
ReplyDeleteToo much precious time wasted on Rowena but vast improvement over last week's snore fest. The Mark of Cain has been ignored for way too long. Can't wait to see what happens next for Dean
ReplyDeleteOh, this episode was SO. FREAKING. AWESOME.
ReplyDeleteI was so proud of Dean. He told Crowley every single thing I've been yelling at the TV since Rowena showed up in Hell. It was really good seeing them talking like equals, not as opposing forces...they were interacting, not as hunter and demon, but as two guys ruminating on how things have gone. The fact that Dean actually gives Crowley compassionate advice, I feel, shows that some level of respect has grown there, and that Crowley IS part of TFW, whether they say it aloud or not....especially when Dean said, "family don't end with blood, and it doesn't begin there either." All I can say is, "it's about time."
And when Crowley told Rowena to piss off, it was the highlight of the episode for me. The fact that Crowley got Dean's side of the story rather than just reacting to his mother's psychological manipulations of his ego showed that he wasn't as susceptible to her influence as she thought. Good for him! Dare we hope that Crowley's starting to get his mojo back?
And his definitive, "I'm bloody CROWLEY....I'm the King of HELL!" ...I was like, YES!! I've been waiting for him to go all Crowley on her since she showed up. It's about time he starts remembering who he is, and I don't mean that just in the context of him being the King of Hell...I mean it in the context of him taking back his individual identity, the one she was trying to strip him of with all the "Fergus" and "I'm your mother" talk.
I can't say it enough. I lovedlovedLOVED this episode!
That was a fantastic episode! Little to no complaints about this one ;) A+++
ReplyDeleteI was expecting a bigger fight scene between Rowena and Dean, but oh well, still excellent
Yanking Metatron's grace... saw it coming, but still w2g Castiel!!!!! Awesome way to get Metatron to do what you want!
Sam actually did something this time!!! Not too much, but still it was great to see him coming up with idea to contact Bobby.
CROWLEY FINALLY GREW SOME!!!!!! So happy to see that he stood up against Rowena, but that means that she will probably come back angrier, and more vengeful. She still is after Sam and Dean and I'll bet that will become a big part in the next coming episodes. I have a hunch that she is going to find Gavin and use that to her advantage. Either way, I am glad to see that she will actually be doing something other than ruining a great character!
There were some excellent comedic moments in this episode, too many to name
Best lines of the night: "Squirrel" "Hey Boris, where Natasha?" I was sooooo waiting for either Sam or Dean to use that line, and Yep... it was awesome!
And best of all: BOBBY!!!!!!!!!! I don't care if it was a one episode cameo..... It was great to see the character again :)
Once again, it was a great episode!
Single man tear everyone!
in a messed up way did Dean call Crowley family?
ReplyDeleteso it WASN'T crazy of me to think that Dean DID basically call Crowley family?
ReplyDeleteGavin?
ReplyDeleteCrowley's son
ReplyDeleteBOBBY SINGER BACK IN FULL FORM HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he said "Balls" and "Idjits"!!!!!!! Castiel and Sam taking Metatron's grace was so AWESOME!!!!! and he got shot!!!! finally Crowley kicked out Rowena and it definitely felt like Dean called Crowley family
ReplyDeleteWow. That was awesome. Why didn't this episode happen after 10x14?
ReplyDeleteAfter last week's whatever-that-was, this is really all I can say.
(Also – WHY do I have to wait two weeks to see Cas punch Metatron??)
I enjoyed this episode. (Finally). Crowley got his balls back and told his mom to GTFO! And Bobby's letter to Sam was the best thing about this episode. I had to hold back the tears. I miss you Bobby, you did great. And thanks for the parallel with Ellen. That made me smile.
ReplyDeleteoh wow
ReplyDeletewhat parallel?
ReplyDelete"Kick it in the ass."
ReplyDeleteThere were some great lines. Besides the one you mentioned I also liked when Metatron called Castiel, "Ass-tiel." LOL Metatron is a full frontal dick but I still found that funny. Also liked when Cas said to Metatron: "Sam will..how do you say? Blow your freaking head off." Lmaooo that was great. (Castiel was great tonight). But I think my favorite line of the night was when the Psychic called Metatron a Hobbit! Lmaoooo I laughed so hard. That was good stuff tonight.
ReplyDeleteUmmm, so I am guessing that you didn't see the two episodes that he was in????? You may want to watch the two episodes that he is in "Weekend at Bobby's" and "King of the Damned" I am sooooo hoping for another appearance
ReplyDeleteno, no i remember him, the wow's because she would definitely kill him
ReplyDeleteoh my god i thought Dean first said that! i'm so sorry Ellen
ReplyDeleteNo awful votes! Well that's great to see!
ReplyDeleteI think Dean felt sorry for him because he found out who his mother was and told him what he needed to hear ^_^ so now he considers Crowley family????
ReplyDeleteFINALLY a great season ten Supernatural episode. Crowley is no longer going to tolerate the loathsome Rowena's bullshit, Dean seems to have better control over The Mark (even though hello demon eyes!), and we got Bobby! Squee! I have to admit that I wasn't surprised that Bobby's Heaven featured Kenny Roger's The Gambler and a bunch of whiskey. Considering his prior unintentional reveal to Dean (in Veritas) that he loves Tori Spelling, I thought it was a brilliant to have him reading her book.
ReplyDeleteNow on to the thing that kinda bothered me but didn't take away from my enjoyment of the episode. We've seen glimpses of other dead character's version of Heaven. We've even seen Sam and Dean move through Heaven. Ash's Heaven was Harvelle's and Pamela was able to come for a visit. When they exited, they were not behind some prison like solitary confinement. My question is, what up with that? Was Ash simply hiding in Heaven and not where he was supposed to be "confined for eternity"? If that's the case, why was he in his version of Heaven? I know that he had warding to hide from the angels but that doesn't explain Pamela being able to just come on over for a visit if each has a confined space. Also, with names written on the doors, wouldn't it be easy to find John and Mary Winchester if one were inclined to do so. In related news, someone really needs to do that.
Maybe they can wash this away and say that things changed after Metatron became a great big back of dicks or that if was fall out from the angel war. Regardless, it's another plot hole I want explained. Add it to where the frak is Crowley's time traveling soon and what the hell happened to Kevin Tran; did he move on when the gates of Heaven opened or is he still a spirit?
As much as I enjoyed the episode (and the potential for more Bobby), I need those issues resolved. Am I the only one with this problem? Maybe I was supposed to forget all of that stuff but I've been watching from the beginning and have binge watched the entire season several times over the years. I'm just tired of plot holes and inconsistencies. Also, my OCD won't allow me to forget it.
the changes in heaven good have been brought about because of the angel war and metatron's former control of heaven. what i found strange was that bobby's heaven didn't include his wife karen. she should have been there.
ReplyDeletebut i did thoroughly enjoy the show. loved watching dean play the frat boys, loved seeing more interaction between sam and cas, and really, really, really loved seeing bobby and his connection at the end with sam. i hope sam takes bobby's advice and fills dean in on what is going on.
and i don't think dean was referring to crowley as family. i think dean was setting crowley straight on what family meant.
It was really nice to see Bobby again, and this was one of the stronger episodes of the season. I'm not feeling quite the same squee as other people seem to be feeling for reasons of ongoing issues I've been complaining about for a while:
ReplyDelete- lack of continuity in portraying Heaven (remember everyone sees a road?) or Hell. And angels need intercoms now? They don't communicate telepathically in heaven?,
- the lack of introduction of a supporting character who interacts more with Sam (sorry, but the show never really put mulch effort in building a strong foundation for a relationship between Bobby and Sam, mostly Bobby and Dean, which lessens the impact of their scenes now). While the scene between them was nice and a step up from ignoring their relationship, I want equal treatment when it comes to having relationships with other characters, and I want Sam to have a circle of his own friends - not just Dean's hand-me-downs. I don't think that's too much to ask for.
- Sam handing over the "rescue Dean" storyline to Cas mid-episode. On the one hand, I appreciate that they didn't make it canon that live humans can waltz into Heaven any time they want, on the other I wonder if this is a sign of what's to come - Sam's storyline when he finally gets one will be split between him whatever guest happens to be on that week (Cas, Charlie, ?). It also bugged the crap out of me that when Cas brought Metatron back to earth, Sam had barely any dialogue. I think he had one line, whereas the old Sam would have owned that scene.
- lack of tension around Dean's MoC threat. I get why Sam is concerned but I don't know why I, the viewer, should be feeling any tension.
- I didn't like that Dabb wrote Sam asking Bobby to do this for them, knowing that Bobby would likely be punished, and didn't bring up the consequences to him first. If Dean was being portrayed as a global threat then I might agree that Bobby needed to be asked to sacrifice himself, but from what I'm seeing, Dean's danger seems to be personal. It just reinforces an idea introduced in Weekend at Bobby's that the Winchesters are very self-centered around Bobby.
- it also felt like Bobby was being a little too clairvoyant in being able to predict Sam's path - apparently he's been reading Carver's interviews too.
Aside from seeing Bobby again, what I liked were the emotional scene with Sam reading Bobby's letter and that Crowley has cut strings with Rowena. I'm mixed on Crowley becoming a Dean ally (liked him better as a villain). So much for the theory that Crowley was running a long con on Rowena. I'll have to rewatch after some time to see how I feel. But the fact that I'm even considering rewatching this one says a lot.
I don't think that Dean's talk with Crowley was referring to him as family either. He was simply setting him straight on Rowena (who I loathe with a fiery passion). Crowley is more a keep your friends close and enemies closer situation.
ReplyDeleteAs for the changes in Heaven, did they ever address that? I know they mentioned changes due to the war in Heaven but I don't recall them ever saying that they basically put each person in solitary confinement for their own good. I want clarity on the issue. I also found it strange that Karen wasn't with Bobby since we've been told that soul mates spend eternity together. Maybe she was eliminated to keep Bobby firmly on Team Winchester should they come a knocking. I read an interview with Jim Beaver yesterday and he brought that up as well. He didn't understand why Karen wasn't with Bobby and joked that maybe she was tired of cleaning up after him.
As with you, I really hope that Sam shares the events of this episode with Dean. I think Dean needs to know. Just knowing that he could possibly have contact with Bobby in the future may give him much needed hope.
The first time she died Bobby killed her because she had a demon in her and he didn't understand what happened to her. The second time she died Bobby killed her because Death had raised her from the dead and she started to turn bad. (I think I got that right.) After killing her twice he might have just wanted to leave her in peace in her version of heaven.
ReplyDeleteThat's a possibility but it wasn't even explained to Jim Beaver (per the interview I read). He was expecting Karen to be in his Heaven.
ReplyDeleteit's also Kim Manners' line
ReplyDeleteFinally an ep I can get into, Bobby, Cas, Crowley and a story that makes sense. AWESOME.
ReplyDeleteA post after my own heart! Haha!
ReplyDeleteWhile this episode was a major step up from the horror that was last week's episode, like you, I'm not quite as enamored w/it as others appear to be.
You listed many of my issues w/the episode, but esp. the lack of urgency w/the MOC story. I liked the scene of Sam running to Dean's room to find he's having a nightmare but . . . . . is that it? Sam said Dean was "worse" or "getting worse" . . . so are we supposed to see that b/c of his nightmare? Dean still controlled himself w/the frat boys and Rowena. I'm still not seeing a major issue w/the MOC. I don't see a problem w/it so all the fuss over it does nothing for me.
Once Dean goes off and starts acting crazy, I'll care about the MOC, but for now, it's just a branding/tattoo on his arm, IMO.
Yup, we're on the same page. It was a good episode and had more of an old-school feel, but there are still some pretty big issues with this season (and the last few seasons) that need fixing before I can really feel excitement about this show.
ReplyDeleteOn Rowena, check out the photos for the next episode. She's in a couple that I think are a little revealing on where this is heading.
Finally a good episode!!! I actually really enjoyed this episode. Some parts were weird, as in the Dean Crowly and the Anna part. However most of it was very enjoyable. I was hoping that Ash would of made an appearance. I am saddened that he didn't not that I am not happy with Bobby. I wish they would explain how Anna is back, I always assumed she was dead after Micheal exploded her into nothingness.
ReplyDeleteI am beginning to enjoy the idea of the mark staying on Dean permanantly and him learning how to use it and balance it over time. I think that would be a great plot device and would create some much needed momentum in the series to have some permanence in the changes that happen to the brothers. The idea of only God-like magic able to remove it made me think that the boys only feesable option is to go to Death. Which could also be very interesting. I am not a huge fan of Rewona and was hoping that Dean did kill her if nothing but to light a plot fire under Crowly's ass. However I guess we be stuck with her for now. Hopefully she will not become the big villain of the season.
Three thoughts.
ReplyDelete1.) I get why Sam isn't telling Dean what was up with his trip to a French mime flick, but I'm not quite clear on why Dean was keeping mum about his encounter with Crowley and especially Rowena. Maybe he underestimated her because the MOC protected him from her spell, but "Rowena is Crowley's mom and she seems to be after me/us" could be important information if not juicy gossip.
2.) Could Crowley be playing good cop to Rowena's bad cop with Dean? I like to think of him as playing a long game, sort of biding his time to make a move. (A move for what, I don't know.) He went to chat with Dean (and I loved his fruity drink at the bar) AFTER he found out that Rowena is looking to remove the MoC.
3.) I think the whole season/show could be turned around if it turns out the only person who can get the MoC off is Lucifer. No end of the chaos that would ensue on all three planes if he could come back to the fold. It'd be fun.
3a.) I've sort of held a sort of secret hope that Sam, Dean, Cas and Crowley are slowly building towards a third (fourth?) afterlife for human souls that is for people who make a choice to be there, rather than a pre-ordained "paradise" (that looks kind of boring) run by angels or hell run by demons.
Yup. But i thought of Ellen, b/c it was more emotional, just like this one was with Bobby, and it's from their loved ones. And Ellen's death (and Jo's) was the last real emotional death in this series besides Bobby's. So the parallel made a lot of sense. It was more about the sentiment/situation than the actual line itself. Which is, what i think, they were going for. That's why it was so easy to catch.
ReplyDeleteThat was Hannah, not Anna. Hannah was the Angel that felt guilty about possessing humans and went back to heaven.
ReplyDeleteThat would make more sense. Still sounds like he is saying Anna though. lol
ReplyDeleteAndrew Dabb hit it out of the ballpark. This is the kind of writing that we used to see regularly on the show, and now pretty much never do. Great script. The characterization was spot on. Sam was caring but badass. Cas had his edge back, had his clueless moments, but wasn't just comic relief. Crowley was great. Rowena dropped the simpering and chewing up the scenery. I was reminded of why Bobby was such a loss to the show. it was wonderful having him on and seeing his connection with Sam. Dean was great, but everyone pulled their weight.
ReplyDeleteMultiple story line eps have been so badly done this season, but Dabb showed how to do it. The pacing and editing too were terrific. I really enjoyed this episode. Best of the season. If only the other writers would learn from it.
Yeah, I didn't feel as though Dean was saying they were family, but there was a suggestion that he and Sam had treated Crowley better than Rowena.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually guessing that the entire plan was Sam's from finding the psychic and contacting Bobby, to stealing Metatron's grace and shooting him. I'd say that's quite a lot.
ReplyDeleteIt's something that Kim Manners used to say on set. It means something to the cast and crew as well.
ReplyDeleteLoved the episode. Bring Bobby back!! So glad Rowena has gone, I never want to see her again!
ReplyDelete