Mastodon Mastodon Mastodon Mastodon Mastodon Agents of SHIELD - Episode 2.16 - Afterlife - Sneak Peeks *Updated
Sign Up


    Enable Dark Mode!

  • What's HOT
  • Premiere Calendar
  • Ratings News
  • Movies
  • YouTube Channel
  • Submit Scoop
  • Contact Us
  • Search
  • Privacy Policy
Get In Touch
 Join SpoilerTV
Support SpoilerTV
SpoilerTV.com is now available ad-free to for all premium subscribers. Thank you for considering becoming a SpoilerTV premium member!

SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

Agents of SHIELD - Episode 2.16 - Afterlife - Sneak Peeks *Updated

Apr 7, 2015

Share on Reddit

Here is a 2nd Sneak Peek



Sneak Peek 1

-
Sign Up for the SpoilerTV Newsletter where we talk all things TV!

229 comments:

  1. klutzy_girlApril 3, 2015 at 8:15 PM

    Go Fitz!

    ReplyDelete
  2. azrael_1289April 3, 2015 at 8:24 PM

    Fitz has been awesome this season!

    ReplyDelete
  3. AndreaPApril 3, 2015 at 8:24 PM

    That evil glare Jemma throws at Bobbi made me feel so proud of her.
    And then Fitz going to pack his things. Go Fitzsimmons!

    ReplyDelete
  4. MonjiaApril 3, 2015 at 8:26 PM

    I allready loved Fitz but now I adore him and Jemma knows how to stare. Loved that sneak peek thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  5. arrowshieldfanApril 3, 2015 at 8:27 PM

    I do want to know how Coulson will defeat the other SHIELD who is more powerful
    Obviously Simmons and Fitz are loyal to Coulson

    ReplyDelete
  6. Jovana92April 3, 2015 at 8:29 PM

    Fiiiiitz! I love you. And Jemma too.

    ReplyDelete
  7. LaurenApril 3, 2015 at 8:30 PM

    God Fitz you are wonderful

    ReplyDelete
  8. LouApril 3, 2015 at 8:36 PM

    I watched like 8 hours of BSG today, its hard seeng Gonzales as anything but Adama!

    Love how FitzSimmons both have their arms crossed, back in sync with each other? Aww yeah!

    ReplyDelete
  9. FK9April 3, 2015 at 8:42 PM

    FitzSimmons finally back on the same page. And all it took was a little hostile takeover.


    Strange thing though... the promo for this episode made it look like Fitz was leaving, but Simmons was staying. My guess is she's going to try to spy on them, but who really knows.

    ReplyDelete
  10. MonjiaApril 3, 2015 at 8:45 PM

    I really hope you're right.

    ReplyDelete
  11. greenlatopia1 .April 3, 2015 at 8:46 PM

    Fitz for president ! ...wait ...

    ReplyDelete
  12. LouApril 3, 2015 at 8:47 PM

    I figure Simmons might get persuaded by their stance on people with powers but I love your idea of her secretly spying on them, it would bring it back to her earlier arc of being undercover for Hydra.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Babar SuhailApril 3, 2015 at 8:48 PM

    I hate all the "real SHIELD" agents so much right now, but specifically Bobbi and Mack for how they betrayed the team.

    ReplyDelete
  14. FK9April 3, 2015 at 8:49 PM

    I would've thought she might be persuaded before Calderon tried to kill Skye. Not anymore though. Simmons is going a little dark right now, but I don't think she's that dark.

    ReplyDelete
  15. JustinC83April 3, 2015 at 8:52 PM

    Wouldn't they be suspicious about that though? Given that Bobbi was undercover with her.

    ReplyDelete
  16. LouApril 3, 2015 at 8:56 PM

    I guess but they also know how strongly she feels about controlling people with powers, if she really went on a rant about that she could convince them.

    ReplyDelete
  17. LouApril 3, 2015 at 8:56 PM

    I hope your right!

    ReplyDelete
  18. FK9April 3, 2015 at 9:02 PM

    Simmons has gotten much better at lying. She could probably pull that off, at least in the short term. Plus, Bobbi knows Fitz and Simmons have been fighting. I don't think it would take much to convince her that they would disagree on this.

    ReplyDelete
  19. LouApril 3, 2015 at 9:05 PM

    Indeed and for added heartbreak she could cause a big scene with Fitz when he leaves (who has no idea she is faking it) and that would make it seem very convincing.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Coastal5April 3, 2015 at 9:06 PM

    Betrayal implies that they were once loyal to Coulson and they never were. They were double agents executing a mission they believed in. They are no different than Coulson's team; they are loyal to their shield. My main hope is at the end of this Bobbi, Mack and Coulson's team end on the same side and truly become a team that believes in each other.

    ReplyDelete
  21. djamila guyotApril 3, 2015 at 9:11 PM

    Go fitz You 'ré a hero,Can't wait for The Next

    ReplyDelete
  22. Greice MoreiraApril 3, 2015 at 9:12 PM

    I think Coulson's team is being really childish. This Shield is just Shield, but with a more democratic approach and a different view in how to handle things. The problem with Coulson's team is that they are more loyal to Coulson than they are to Shield. They aren't Agents of Shield, They are Agents of Coulson. No wonder they followed him even when he was nuts and made a lot of bad decisions without anyone complaining. I don't trust real Shield but if I was an agent I would listen them out and see how things work out to assess the situation, instead of jumping to "oh they don't like how Coulson handle things so they are the enemy". Coulson isn't a director, he is a comander

    ReplyDelete
  23. FK9April 3, 2015 at 9:12 PM

    Oh geez. I hope he'd know what she was doing. I've had enough heartbreak with these two. Aren't they at a point now where they need to be starting to work things out and clear the air between them? It felt like they'd turned a corner in that hand holding scene.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Historical_MaterialistApril 3, 2015 at 9:20 PM

    I agree with much of what you said. Gonzales and his people are not the enemy. They're all SHIELD.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Babar SuhailApril 3, 2015 at 9:20 PM

    But the team obviously felt betrayed because they thought Mack and Bobbi were their own.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Greice MoreiraApril 3, 2015 at 9:25 PM

    The problem with Coulson's team is that they aren't Agen of Shield, they are Agents of Coulson. Bobbi and Mack are loyal to Shield, while the bus people are loyal only to Coulson. The betrayers of Shield in my view are the ones on Coulson's team since they only care about Shield if Coulson is on charge.

    ReplyDelete
  27. FK9April 3, 2015 at 9:26 PM

    Well, one of them DID try to kill Skye against orders. There are enough shades of gray here to be a little suspicious.

    ReplyDelete
  28. sparky42April 3, 2015 at 9:27 PM

    Nice one, good to see both of them are on the same page about this Shield. Nice to see Bobbi's response as well. I wonder will Gonzales actually let Fitz go.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Greice MoreiraApril 3, 2015 at 9:30 PM

    But that is what I like about them. Not everybody is on the same page, their world and their agency is much more in the grey area (which is more like any spy or government agency should be). This is definitely more compelling to watch them the flower and reinbows world of Coulson's team where everybody just follows blindly and are mostly always on the same page. Without conflict there is no drama.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Babar SuhailApril 3, 2015 at 9:31 PM

    Fury made Couslon the new director and asked him to build SHEILD. But then come Robert's and his team and not liking what Couslon is doing, they build their own SHIELD which makes their SHEILD a fake. And of course the team are loyal to Couslon, because he is the true director and head of SHEILD, not Robert.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Gaia Di LorenzoApril 3, 2015 at 9:38 PM

    Need oxygen right now. Go Fitz. May please be free and free your Coulson too.

    ReplyDelete
  32. magnutudeApril 3, 2015 at 9:40 PM

    gotta love Fitz and his fierce loyalty to his friends....

    ReplyDelete
  33. Historical_MaterialistApril 3, 2015 at 9:46 PM

    I'm trying to wrap my head around how Fitz and Simmons are acting.


    If they believe that Gonzales and his people are bad guys. That is, they believe they are HYDRA or some other like minded group that are out to destroy SHIELD and/or take over the world (sounds dramatic I know) I can understand why they would have attitude and not be co-operative. That's understandable. In fact they should be more in a panic.


    But if they believe that these people are indeed members of SHIELD. The same group they all worked for and were a part of before the fall, the same organization they are trying to rebuild then I gotta wonder: WTF?!


    They should all be smart enough and professional enough to understand and accept that the organization is going to go through changes. Not all of them they're going to like or agree with.


    Simmons in particular should appreciate that Bobbi saved her life from HYDRA! And now she's going to give her the stink eye because: and it all boils down to: their feelings are hurt. Give me a break. They should be more professional than that. Any officer of any corporation (and yes, SHIELD is a large enterprise corporation) would say. Leave your badge at the door and get out.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Greice MoreiraApril 3, 2015 at 9:49 PM

    But that is the thing, did Fury had this authority? Fury worked for the world council (and the woman from the Council whom Natasha replaced is still alive). Plus, nobody knows Fury is alive, most people didn't even know Coulson was alive until recently. The thing was Shield fell, Fury died, and Gonzales team bend together to save what was left of Shield, and the only way of doing that was changing the ways things were done and not following Fury secretive ways. Then they found out Coulson (who was revived through a mysterious project and whose ways were strange enough for Victoria Hand to think he was Hydra at first) somehow got the box of secrets from Fury, a box which may contain all kinds of dangerous secrets which shouldn't exist anymore in a democratic and transparent Shield, so they send their agents to investigate and find out Coulson was handling Shield while insane and was messing with alien stuff, the same thing which cased an invasion last time Fury did it. So when he gives Coulson a vote of trust to come clean and end all secrets by unlocking the box, he refuses and May helps him escape to keep his secrets. I understand you are conditioned to think Coulson is the hero and anyone opposing him is evil, but if you think well, Gonzales Shield is as legitimate as Coulson's.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Justin ValdesApril 3, 2015 at 9:54 PM

    FitzSimmons being all snarky towards Robert and Bobbi is giving me so much life haha it's great <3 I love that they're standing down and not giving in to this real SHIELD bullshit.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Greice MoreiraApril 3, 2015 at 10:01 PM

    I agree 100% with you.

    ReplyDelete
  37. RonApril 3, 2015 at 10:10 PM

    Fitz does not stutter that much anymore, that's great. Only when he is in distress is that it shows. I hope they really let him go and not put him in a cell

    ReplyDelete
  38. melbyeApril 3, 2015 at 10:17 PM

    As it stand the "real" Shield aren't evil so it is hard for me to hate them, i just hope it doesn't turn out that they are infact evil

    ReplyDelete
  39. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 10:19 PM

    Shield has been a "terrorist" organization since the end of TWS, so I doubt the surviving member of the security council will continue upholding protocol, which we actually don't know for certain that Nick doesn't have some power to choose a successor. Nick felt it in himself to appoint Coulson and didn't even blink long after Shield almost burnt to the ground and agents went into hiding and some quit altogether, fearing arrests by governments or being killed by their former friends. I'm sure the SC would rather Shield stayed dead but Fury wanted to save it and rebuild it and gave that task to Coulson and he's been doing his best with hiccups along the way. Agents died but that's honestly the nature of the job.


    If these guys that call themselves real Shield are as upstanding as they seem to purport, why disobey orders of the guy who, for all intents and purposes, would have remained director had the WS not tried to kill him and force him to fake his death? They went rogue, plain and simple. Now because they have a carrier, more manpower and more resources than Coulson, they think they are the true Agents of Shield? I don't think so. Coulson has been doing Shield business for months, while they were busy amassing intel on him, not Hydra, they violently attacked fellow agents on their own base, to steal the toolbox, not a Hydra base that's been trying to replicate alien weapons of mass destruction. Coulson sought them out immediately after the fall, they stayed in hiding. They almost killed one of their own but whatever, she's a gifted and those need to be tracked down, locked up for good or killed.


    "Real" Shield is the dodgiest thing I've seen since Hydra. They are NOT Hydra evil but what annoys me, is their hypocrisy, their inability to see how wrong their actions against Coulson's base was. These people were serving society, trying to protect them from pending disaster and now had had to relive the day Shield fell, not from actual enemies but from their brothers. What a shame.


    And a spy agency that has a no regard for security clearance regarding sensitive information and has a blurry chain of command because of lofty ideals such and transparency and democracy isn't worth a darn. They might as well close shop.

    ReplyDelete
  40. DeanApril 3, 2015 at 10:20 PM

    If she knows they tried to kill Skye and still get persuaded then it's basically assasination to her character and i would hate to see that so if she stays better to be to help Coulson from inside.

    ReplyDelete
  41. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 10:22 PM

    The "real" Shield disobeyed direct orders, they ain't legit by a long stretch. They don't like what Coulson was doing, they should have talked to him instead of violently forcing him out, possibly with the threat of being locked up for having alien blood in him if he didn't run.

    ReplyDelete
  42. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 10:23 PM

    If they had such serious problems with Coulson, they should have opened lines of communication first, not attack them.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Greice MoreiraApril 3, 2015 at 10:34 PM

    I explained why they are legit to Babar Suhail below, so check my reply to him if you are interested :)

    ReplyDelete
  44. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 10:37 PM

    If they had such serious problems with Coulson, they should have opened lines of communication first, not attack them.

    Shield has been a "terrorist" organization since the end of TWS, so I doubt the surviving member of the security council will continue upholding protocol, which we actually don't know for certain that Nick doesn't have some power to choose a successor. Nick felt it in himself to appoint Coulson and didn't even blink long after Shield almost burnt to the ground and agents went into hiding and some quit altogether, fearing arrests by governments or being killed by their former friends. I'm sure the SC would rather Shield stayed dead but Fury wanted to save it and rebuild it and gave that task to Coulson and he's been doing his best, however, with hiccups along the way. Agents died but that's honestly the nature of the job.

    If these guys that call themselves real Shield are as upstanding as they seem to purport, why disobey orders of the guy who, for all intents and purposes, would have remained director had the WS not tried to kill him and force him to fake his death? They went rogue, plain and simple. Now because they have a carrier, more manpower and more resources than Coulson, they think they are the true Agents of Shield? I don't think so. Coulson has been doing Shield business for months, while they were busy amassing intel on him, not Hydra, they violently attacked fellow agents on their own base, to steal the toolbox, not a Hydra base that's been trying to replicate alien weapons of mass destruction. Coulson sought them out immediately after the fall, they stayed in hiding. They almost killed one of their own but whatever, she's a gifted and those need to be tracked down, locked up for good or killed.

    "Real" Shield is the dodgiest thing I've seen since Hydra. They are NOT Hydra evil but what annoys me about them, is their hypocrisy, their inability to see how wrong their actions against Coulson's base was. These people were serving society, trying to protect them from pending disaster, all under strenuous conditions while trying to get back to the governments' good graces (which was actually working) and now they have had to relive the day Shield fell, not from actual enemies but from their brothers. What a shame.

    And a spy agency that has a no regard for security clearance regarding sensitive information and has a blurry chain of command because of lofty ideals such and transparency and democracy isn't worth much. They might as well close shop.

    ReplyDelete
  45. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 10:41 PM

    I did reply but my post wont save, something about spoilertv needing to approve it. I don't know why though. It was quite long so I guess i'll just let it be.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Alex ForrestApril 3, 2015 at 10:47 PM

    Nice to see Simmons being defiant in the face of Gonzales trying to sweet-talk them into helping him. While it's entirely possible that she'll end up crossing the line over to Olmost SHIELD, at least it's not happening too quickly.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Alex ForrestApril 3, 2015 at 10:50 PM

    "the organization is going to go through changes", in this case, came in the form of a forceful takeover with everyone being knocked out via gas and the leader being taken in handcuffs. How did you expect Fitz and Simmons to react? Congratulate Gonzales on a job well done?

    ReplyDelete
  48. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 10:50 PM

    If they had such serious problems with Coulson, they should have opened lines of communication first, not attack them.

    Shield has been a "terrorist" organization since the end of TWS, so I doubt the surviving member of the security council will continue upholding protocol, which we actually don't know for certain that Nick doesn't have some power to choose a successor. Nick felt it in himself to appoint Coulson and didn't even blink long after Shield almost burnt to the ground and agents went into hiding and some quit altogether, fearing arrests by governments or being killed by their former friends. I'm sure the SC would rather Shield stayed dead but Fury wanted to save it and rebuild it and gave that task to Coulson and he's been doing his best, however, with hiccups along the way. Agents died but that's honestly the nature of the job.

    If these guys that call themselves real Shield are as upstanding as they seem to purport, why disobey orders of the guy who, for all intents and purposes, would have remained director had the WS not tried to kill him and force him to fake his death? They went rogue, plain and simple. Now because they have a carrier, more manpower and more resources than Coulson, they think they are the true Agents of Shield? I don't think so. Coulson has been doing Shield business for months, while they were busy amassing intel on him, not Hydra, they violently attacked fellow agents on their own base, to steal the toolbox, not a Hydra base that's been trying to replicate alien weapons of mass destruction. Coulson sought them out immediately after the fall, they stayed in hiding. They almost killed one of their own but whatever, she's a gifted and those need to be tracked down, locked up for good or killed.

    "Real" Shield is the dodgiest thing I've seen since Hydra. They are NOT Hydra evil but what annoys me about them, is their hypocrisy, their inability to see how wrong their actions against Coulson's base was. These people were serving society, trying to protect them from pending disaster, all under strenuous conditions while trying to get back to the governments' good graces (which was actually working) and now they have had to relive the day Shield fell, not from actual enemies but from their brothers. What a shame.

    And a spy agency that has a no regard for security clearance regarding sensitive information and has a blurry chain of command because of lofty ideals such and transparency and democracy isn't worth a darn. They might as well close shop.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Greice MoreiraApril 3, 2015 at 10:51 PM

    Oh I'm really sorry, dear. I was having trouble with spoiler tv earlier too. Let's hope it will be approved. But I understand why who is on Coulson's side won't see Gozales Shield as legitimate, however looking from their perspective, I wished to say I understand where they come from. And I don't think they are 100% good guys like Coulson, but that is exactly what I like about them.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Alex ForrestApril 3, 2015 at 10:56 PM

    There's a big difference between "they don't like how Coulson handles things" and "they don't like how Coulson handles things, therefore they send two spies into our team, assault our base, knock all of us out with gas and forcibly take over our operation". Yes, they're all SHIELD - which means Gonzales (especially given his diatribes about "transparency") should've approached Coulson openly to voice his objections. Whatever signs there were of Coulson being unstable and not fit to run SHIELD, there was nothing to suggest he was so unreasonable that Olmost SHIELD couldn't even try to talk to him. Gonzales chose the hostile approach, for no good reason - why should Fitz and Simmons not be hostile in return?

    ReplyDelete
  51. LaurenApril 3, 2015 at 10:58 PM

    They are gonna like hold him hostage the minute he steps out of that building

    ReplyDelete
  52. Alex ForrestApril 3, 2015 at 10:59 PM

    By that definition, you could say WARD never betrayed SHIELD, either. Coulson's team believed Bobbi and Mack were loyal to them, but they weren't - they were passing information on to a third party all along and were with that third party when it took over the base by force. That's what matters. Bobbi and Mack believe they're doing the right thing, yes, but they DID betray their friends, there are no two ways about it.

    ReplyDelete
  53. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 11:03 PM

    Gonzalez did raise some valid points, I just have an issue with the fact that he wasn't willing to meet with Coulson when it became apparent that he was rebuilding Shield and I mean all the stuff that happened before the alien crazy writing got worse. It's not like Coulson wouldn't have relinquished leadership to him when it did get worse, I mean he even asked May to shoot him in the head. And now even with Bobbie and Mack, he's still not trying to talk with Coulson but goes for the jugular and makes this whole "real" Shield like some personal vendatta/crusade against Fury, and Coulson by extension because he knows Coulson was Fury appointed. I might even give a little bit more credence to Gonzalez if he brought up the possibility of Coulson's appoint not being legit but he's acting like it is, he's just forcefully removing Coulson because he don't like him for the reasons he stated, oh yeah and the alien blood thing.

    In my unsaved response I said....

    If they had such serious problems with Coulson, they should have opened lines of communication first, not attack them.

    Shield has been a "terrorist" organization since the end of TWS, so I doubt the surviving member of the security council will continue upholding protocol, which we actually don't know for certain that Nick doesn't have some power to choose a successor. Nick felt it in himself to appoint Coulson and didn't even blink long after Shield almost burnt to the ground and agents went into hiding and some quit altogether, fearing arrests by governments or being killed by their former friends. I'm sure the SC would rather Shield stayed dead but Fury wanted to save it and rebuild it and gave that task to Coulson and he's been doing his best, however, with hiccups along the way. Agents died but that's honestly the nature of the job.

    ReplyDelete
  54. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 11:05 PM

    If these guys that call themselves real Shield are as upstanding as they seem to purport, why disobey orders of the guy who, for all intents and purposes, would have remained director had the WS not tried to kill him and force him to fake his death? They went rogue, plain and simple. Now because they have a carrier, more manpower and more resources than Coulson, they think they are the true Agents of Shield? I don't think so. Coulson has been doing Shield business for months, while they were busy amassing intel on him, not Hydra, they violently attacked fellow agents on their own base, to steal the toolbox, not a Hydra base that's been trying to replicate alien weapons of mass destruction. Coulson sought them out immediately after the fall, they stayed in hiding. They almost killed one of their own but whatever, she's a gifted and those need to be tracked down, locked up for good or killed.

    "Real" Shield is the dodgiest thing I've seen since Hydra. They are NOT Hydra evil but what annoys me about them, is their hypocrisy, their inability to see how wrong their actions against Coulson's base was. These people were serving society, trying to protect them from pending disaster, all under strenuous conditions while trying to get back to the governments' good graces (which was actually working) and now they have had to relive the day Shield fell, not from actual enemies but from their brothers. What a shame.

    And a spy agency that has a no regard for security clearance regarding sensitive information and has a blurry chain of command because of lofty ideals such and transparency and democracy isn't worth much. They might as well close shop.

    ReplyDelete
  55. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 11:11 PM

    If these guys that call themselves real Shield are as upstanding as they seem to purport, why disobey orders of the guy who, for all intents and purposes, would have remained director had the WS not tried to kill him and force him to fake his death? They went rogue, plain and simple. Now because they have a carrier, more manpower and more resources than Coulson, they think they are the true Agents of Shield? I don't think so. Coulson has been doing Shield business for months, while they were busy amassing intel on him, not Hydra, they violently attacked fellow agents on their own base, to steal the toolbox, not a Hydra base that's been trying to replicate alien weapons of mass destruction. Coulson sought them out immediately after the fall, they stayed in hiding. They almost killed one of their own but whatever, she's a gifted and those need to be tracked down, locked up for good or killed.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Greice MoreiraApril 3, 2015 at 11:11 PM

    Victoria Hand truly believed Coulson was freaking Hydra in the last season because of his unstable behavior and all the secrets. Coulson works in secrecy. Gonzales wants transparency but he knows Coulson plays by Fury playbook and it was too dangerous to approach him unprepared. There is transparency inside Shield, but they dint know if Coulson wanted to be part of Shield. It's a clash of ideologies and lack of trust between the parts that lead to this situation.

    ReplyDelete
  57. AydrianApril 3, 2015 at 11:13 PM

    I'm sorry, I'm about to be a very harsh critic of your opinion. It's going to look like a slight against you but it's not intended that way, it's just the kind of person I am and anyone who has been on this website a while will tell you subtlety is not my forte.


    This is utter nonsense. Yes, there is dissent in government agencies, but there is also an acknowledgement that they answer to a higher authority. Even if they don't like it, they must follow the person in charge.


    A few wildcards does not legitimize Real SHIELD in any way, it makes them an organization where the soldiers make decisions based on what they want instead of what is right. Because no individual has the right to police themselves, their opinion is not the ultimate authority by which their actions are judged.


    This turns the people holding life and death in their hands into judge, jury, and executioner. These people are dangerous to any organization because while their thoughts may not be shared amongst everyone, their actions will be seen as a group decision because they are doing it in the name of Real SHIELD.


    Coulson's team may not be the bigger one here, but they're far more organized and cohesive than RS. They express their opinions constantly, but ultimately Coulson makes the decision based on multiple factors. That guy who tried to kill Skye took only what he felt into account, and disregarded everyone else's. That's not good! What people feel should not dictate their actions when done for the "greater good" because in that moment, the person who determines what the greater good is is the one who is pulling the trigger.


    I believe that Real SHIELD's intentions are good, but good intentions do not justify bad actions. In time within the last few months they could have approached Coulson. It was absolutely unnecessary to spy on him.


    Bobbi and Mack joined the team to spy on them and gain their trust. Coulson and his team aren't against them because of loyalty to SHIELD, their against them because their first instinct was not negotiation, but subterfuge and force. That's not good, because now the ultimate power rests in people who aren't united in a cause, with people who don't follow orders, with people who would kill someone who is different from them out of ignorance and fear.


    Real SHIELD is not in a position to lead anything until they get their shit together and get their people in line. Leading as a democracy is not a bad thing, but the thing about democracy is that it's VERY corruptible.

    ReplyDelete
  58. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 11:15 PM

    A spy agency that has a no regard for security clearance when it comes sensitive information and has a blurry chain of command because of lofty ideals such and transparency and democracy isn't worth much. They might as well close shop.

    ReplyDelete
  59. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 11:19 PM

    Gonzalez has a no regard for security clearance regarding sensitive information and has blurred the chain of command because of commendable ideals such and transparency and democracy but his Shield can't work like this, they are spies, giving up the very things that define their jobs, they might as well close shop and join the police force or something.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Coastal5April 3, 2015 at 11:22 PM

    I don't like what they did either but I'm not sure a double agent can ever truly betray the person they are spying on as they were never loyal to them to begin with.

    ReplyDelete
  61. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 11:23 PM

    Victoria changed her mind about Coulson, I doubt we'll ever see that with Gonzalez. He acknowledged that Coulson was a good man but his reservations seems to veer towards the fear of all things alien and a dislike for all things Fury.

    ReplyDelete
  62. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 11:30 PM

    It doesn't keep the other person from feeling betrayed because as far as they were aware, the relationship was genuine on both sides and now they find out it was all a lie.

    ReplyDelete
  63. KarriApril 3, 2015 at 11:39 PM

    Glad Fitz and Jemma are staying loyal to Coulson. Are they letting Fitz leave so they can follow him to Coulson? If Jemma stays, I hope it's to spy on them.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Greice MoreiraApril 3, 2015 at 11:42 PM

    Don't worry, dear, I apprec reading different opinions than mine, and it's not uncommon for me for me to change mine based on other people's arguments. I don't think thist Shield is anarchist, where there is no authority and everybody does as they please. It's a democracy, Gonzales wasn't designated as Director, he was elected by the other. He has the authority and the final say, but there is no secret among them and he seems to consult a council before taking big decision. If Couldon is king, Gonzales is a first minister. The guy who tried to kill Daisy disobeyed orders just like Coulson has disobeyed several orders before too, the difference is that the guy is a bigoted because of past experiences and Coulson is compassionate. You can't judge the act of the whole agency because of the act of one rogue agent. Also They are spies so of course their first instinct is subterfuge especially agains someone they judged super secretive, dangerous and untrustworthy as Coulson.
    However I have to say I don't think real shield is 100% good. They are very grey but that is exactly what I like about them. I think it's more interesting for the show. Now I'm very tired so im gonna finish my argument here. I loved talking to you. If you wish to reply, im gonna read it but won't be able to reply today. See you :)

    ReplyDelete
  65. kquotes.comApril 3, 2015 at 11:43 PM

    love Fitz <3 love
    quotes

    ReplyDelete
  66. PlatynumApril 3, 2015 at 11:47 PM

    Love Fitz..hope Jemma does the same.They are faithful to Coulson and him only!!!

    ReplyDelete
  67. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 11:47 PM

    The other guy disobeyed to kill, that is a glaring difference if we must compare that to what Coulson has done.

    ReplyDelete
  68. ThulaLaniApril 3, 2015 at 11:50 PM

    I am happy to see where Fitz's loyalty lies. He's been betrayed enough already. It's best to stick with those he knows an truly trusts.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Greice MoreiraApril 4, 2015 at 12:00 AM

    You have good points, but I want to remind you that Coulson has also disobeyed Shield several times, and he went rogue so many times that Victoria Hand was sure he was Hydra. Also Gonzales didn't want to disobey and Bobbi was going to sacrifice herself to obey Fury's order, but they decided to fight for the lives of the loyal good agents who hadn't given up and whose lives would be lost. Also "the" didn't try to kill an agent because she was gifted, they wanted to bring her in unharmed but one agent disobeyed direct orders and acted by himself. You can't jufge the whole agent because of the actions of one bad agent. And we don't know what they've been doing to protect the world. Their Shield is bigger and more resourceful, and there was just two agents dealing with the "threat" of Coulson, we don't know what the hundreds of others were doing. They were probably also protecting the world in secrecy as it's usual in an spy agency. We know too little about real to take any conclusion. Now I gotta go, loved talking to you.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Greice MoreiraApril 4, 2015 at 12:07 AM

    I'm very tired so I'll keep it short. Firstly, thanks for your comment. I agree with you, I don't personally agree with how real shield dealt with things, I just understand why they acted as they acted. I understand where they are coming from. Also I don't trust them to be 100% good guys, but that is what I like about them. A more grey agency seems more interesting for a tv show than a simplistic the good guys vs the bad one. I like the complexity. Now I goota go. See you :)

    ReplyDelete
  71. ThulaLaniApril 4, 2015 at 12:17 AM

    I hear you but nobody's heard of this Shield. I don't think Talbot's aware of them and him and Coulson have a begrudging report. Victoria changed her mind about Coulson, I really don't see these guys doing that. Things are quickly changing and they their fears are clouding their judgement. They should have approached Coulson, not attack him. They have good intentions and great ideals but everything they've done to Coulson nullifies all of that because it was wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  72. ThulaLaniApril 4, 2015 at 12:22 AM

    It's funny you say that because I have sen people complain about AoS being grey because of how they dealt with things since the fall and they seem to have expected a perfect Shield that did things perfectly. And all of this was before we even knew about this 'real" Shield stuff. You want the show to be more grey than people were already claiming it was, lol.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Beatriz MorenoApril 4, 2015 at 12:28 AM

    But could you imagine her joining and then finding out? Damn she'd be so pissed.
    Though really, promos can be misleading, for all we know, Fitz leaving and Simmons staying might be an agreed upon decision between the two. She'll stay to help Coulson and crew from the inside and maybe free May? And Fitz will leave to go looking for them.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Beatriz MorenoApril 4, 2015 at 12:31 AM

    I think the problem is we're all too focused on Jemma's opinion on that, there are bigger things in play. Besides it's not like Coulson was against the measures she was taking against powered people, so why should she be against him?

    ReplyDelete
  75. Beatriz MorenoApril 4, 2015 at 12:40 AM

    Shield was never perfect in the first place, I mean have they SEEN Winter Soldier?

    ReplyDelete
  76. DeanApril 4, 2015 at 12:41 AM

    This is exactly what i think will happen. Fitz might even be the one suggesting she stays.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Gothamite39April 4, 2015 at 12:42 AM

    Excellent, if Simmons stays I hope at least they have a scene or two with dealing with their problems. Or at least starting to anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  78. ivanApril 4, 2015 at 12:49 AM

    you are all NOT SHIELD the only SHIELD agents there are Leo, Jemma and May

    ReplyDelete
  79. Beatriz MorenoApril 4, 2015 at 12:49 AM

    Damn, you should print that out and read it to congress! ;) Jokes aside though, I agree 100% with what your saying. Real Shield's concerns are legitimate, bit they handled it badly. Besides, like you said, Coulson does take other people's concerns into consideration, like Skye said she wanted out on a mission and he let her. Fitz said he wanted to go to the field and he let him and May is constantly there keeping an eye on him and weighing in on his decisions.

    ReplyDelete
  80. PlatynumApril 4, 2015 at 12:54 AM

    True...lol

    ReplyDelete
  81. Beatriz MorenoApril 4, 2015 at 1:01 AM

    Compare this to someone working for the government and someone taking out the government leaders, saying their work is inadequate, taking their place and expecting the workers there to just follow them willingly, because what they're doing makes sense and is in everyone's best interest?


    'Real Shield' might be democratic, but no one asked Fitz and Simmons if they wanted them taking over, why should they agree? Why should they trust these people when all they did was spy on them and lie to them.


    This wasn't a diplomatic change in leadership, this was a coup d'etat. Their attitudes are legitimate.


    WARD saved Simmons life, but I'm pretty sure that was irrelevant after he betrayed everyone.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Beatriz MorenoApril 4, 2015 at 1:03 AM

    Nah, Simmons will stay there to help May and spy on them.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Bruce_FApril 4, 2015 at 2:03 AM

    Aydrian, I agree with you and I can boil it down further than that.

    Being a SHIELD agent is a job. If you have a job where you don't agree/like/trust the person(s) you work for, you quit or resign and go look for another job. You don't take your boss hostage and then pass off the counterfeit shadow company you started as the genuine company you used to work for.

    If SHIELD was still a fully-sanctioned international security organization, Gonzalez and his people would be considered criminals for what they're doing. The fact that SHIELD has been disavowed by most countries is the only reason why Gonalez and his people have the opportunity to get away with this.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Buy SellApril 4, 2015 at 2:07 AM

    Betrayal means they were once loyal to the team? Why does everyone refee to Ward as a traitor then haha he was always loyal to Garret. He's a murderer yes but not traitor

    ReplyDelete
  85. Buy SellApril 4, 2015 at 2:10 AM

    Not everyone is on the same page yeh but they shouldn't try to kill skye like that guy. Theres a difference between opinion and action. Skye only used her powrrs to protect herself. I hope gonzales that, bald idiot, and bobbi and mack all get beat the crap out off

    ReplyDelete
  86. Beatriz MorenoApril 4, 2015 at 2:15 AM

    That's why it's "Olmost Shield".

    ReplyDelete
  87. Buy SellApril 4, 2015 at 2:16 AM

    Bam exactly what i was going to sat

    ReplyDelete
  88. fan2000April 4, 2015 at 2:28 AM

    Fury did have the authority... EVERYONE on the council died! Fury had to go into hiding and he PUT COULSON in charge because of COULSON's heart and mind and FURY felt COULSON had the pure heart to lead SHIELD. Maria Hill knew Coulson was in charge... CAN HARDLY wait till FURY puts people in their place! I am pretty sure that AVENGERS would BE team COULSON as well...

    ReplyDelete
  89. fan2000April 4, 2015 at 2:37 AM

    Agreed! It is a mutiny. Back in the days when mutinys happened on ships, sailors faced death as punishment for it. IT WAS A ZERO tolerance... Even in today's current military.... Orders must be followed.. no anarchy... They should have brought this up to Coulson and followed protocols.

    ReplyDelete
  90. ivanApril 4, 2015 at 3:36 AM

    no they shouldn't even be CALLED SHIELD, they're crybabies with no balls

    ReplyDelete
  91. Ashley GoyetteApril 4, 2015 at 6:24 AM

    Childish??? How so for remaining loyal to the True Director of shield and not joining Gonzalez's Coup. I have to disagree with your statement that May, Skye, Hunter, Fitz, and Simmons aren't Agents of Shield and are Agents of Coulson. They ARE Shield Agents. They report to the Director of Shield. Lets also not forget that they are not the only ones working for Coulson. He had a lot of agents working for him at The Playground. They just weren't main characters on the show. If you have watched the show regularly you would also know that he has many more agents throughout the world in a variety of locations. Oh and of course they followed his orders when he was suffering effects from the alien blood. They work in a Paramilitary organization and following orders is expected and not following them gets one fired.

    As for the "Real Shield" I have several issues with them. For a group they claims they are all about transparency, they sure don't act that way and even Coulson Called Gonzalez out on it. Why send in spies? Why not just come to Coulson first and talk things out. Sounds to me that the whole no secrets thing is a rule they end as they see fit. Also seemed as if Bobbi was in the dark on the orders to kill Skye as both the first agent who Skye Subdued and Caulderon where using bullets not Icers.
    Personally I don't see an Organization such as shield being the place for Transparency. Would have made it much easier for HYDRA to take them out as they would have known everything and would have been able to take all there opposition out with ease. If you think it would have prevented them from infiltrating Shield I have to laugh as Criminals and ad Guys such as HYDRA don't follow rules. Its like saying Gun laws keep guns out of the hands of criminals. With HYDRA now known to be back up and running I Think there need to be secrets especially with shields numbers being as low as they are. Its the best way to keep them out of HYDRA's hands. Under the "Real Shields" Transparency Hydra could easily infiltrate them and gain all the information they need in short order.

    ReplyDelete
  92. NiceGuyVanApril 4, 2015 at 7:05 AM

    OK then Ward didn't betray them too. cool

    ReplyDelete
  93. Bruce_FApril 4, 2015 at 7:11 AM

    I don't believe for a second they are all SHIELD. It's like the difference between a Rolex watch and a knockoff. At first glance it may look and feel the same but it's not even close.

    These people are only loyal to their own counterfeit version of SHIELD they created in secret through subterfuge and mutiny. It didn't take something huge like corruption or a war crime for them turn traitor either. These people simply didn't like the way Coulson ran things. That's it. That's all it took to spur this revolt.

    The moment that Gonzales and his people decided to go through with this plot and call themselves the "real SHEILD" they actually stopped being SHIELD altogether.

    ReplyDelete
  94. MurderMondaysApril 4, 2015 at 7:57 AM

    Actually, no. The woman on the council that Natasha was impersonating did not die.

    ReplyDelete
  95. MurderMondaysApril 4, 2015 at 7:59 AM

    I feel like too many people forget this is a show about spies. People go on and on about Ward killing "innocent people" but, to him, they were all enemy combatants.



    None of the other Agents would have hesitated to do the same as him in a similar position.

    ReplyDelete
  96. KarriApril 4, 2015 at 9:09 AM

    I've wondered if the plan was to kill Skye and Gonzales didn't tell Bobbi because he knew she would object. I wouldn't be surprised if she was the only one using icers.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Lord NikonApril 4, 2015 at 9:16 AM

    Well Bobbi we know now she doesn't care that they tried to kill Skye.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Stephen S. BowmanApril 4, 2015 at 11:38 AM

    this couldn't be said more clearer skye was protecting herself she did not have a choice

    ReplyDelete
  99. Stephen S. BowmanApril 4, 2015 at 11:41 AM

    heck he risk everything with simmons to hide what happen to skye

    ReplyDelete
  100. ElharApril 4, 2015 at 12:48 PM

    How do you know ths from this clip? This can be (though I would find it very OOC), but I haven't seen anything about it in this scene.

    ReplyDelete
  101. ElharApril 4, 2015 at 12:52 PM

    Geez, cool down, you are going to get a stroke.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Lord NikonApril 4, 2015 at 3:23 PM

    Well think for a second. If she had any kind of problem with the way they handled Skye we wouldn't be seeing her trying to recruit, Fitz/Simmons for this new shield. Also i think that she might be somewhere talking to Mack about what happened. She is just standing there supporting this guy who probably gave the order to kill Skye. If it was me and i didn't support the decision about Skye i would not be standing there no argument recruiting people.

    ReplyDelete
  103. ElharApril 4, 2015 at 4:09 PM

    I wouldn't be so surprised by this.


    Skye was a friend and and unknown danger at the same time since she has changed. Fitz saw more of the friend and trusted her (note: without any reason), that she wouldn't harm anybody, even involuntarily. Jemma saw more of the potential danger. Fitz looked her changes something "cool", an extra perk, Jemma thought it as a peril, which they should cure to get back their old Skye. She did her best to help Skye to suppress what she thought could mean harm to Skye and everybody, but anyhow, she saw that change a bad thing - just like the RS sees.


    Plus it was another huge letdown to Fitz, that the only person whom he had formed a close bond since his survive betrayed him. I think the thing that Mack is with RS is a maybe the strongest motive to him to leave.

    ReplyDelete
  104. ElharApril 4, 2015 at 4:14 PM

    It depends very much how Gonzales and the rest of the junta reacts to that rogue actions. (At this moment I assume it was that.) If they can convince them, that what happened in the forest it was never in their cards (which I can imagine) than it remains a sad thing, can not be undone, but doesn't change the basic picture.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Folie-lexApril 4, 2015 at 4:45 PM

    I can't deal with Bobbi being all sad and upset that people are pissed with her... Honey seriously?!

    I'm sorry but all the good arguments and standing points that "Real"!SHIELD may have had (and I'm not gonna deny they do have a few) just got negated by the way they've been acting.

    Good on Fitz for standing his ground.

    I'm glad that Jemma doesn't seem to happy about the situation either, but I'm not entirely sure they won't be able to talk her into joining in the end. Yes, there's the theory that she might stick around to spy for Coulson!SHIELD, but with the way she's been acting lately, and the mentality she's developed recently I'm not putting too much money on it.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Folie-lexApril 4, 2015 at 4:48 PM

    I liked Mack in 2A, whereas Bobbi bothered the hell out of me. But now Mack's attitude is just too abrassive, and Bobbi continues to grate me.


    So I don't want either to stick around.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Folie-lexApril 4, 2015 at 5:05 PM

    I actually wouldn't be surprised if that indeed happens.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Folie-lexApril 4, 2015 at 5:06 PM

    While they haven't explicitly claimed as much, I'm getting that feeling too... shadows of Civil War ahead I guess...

    ReplyDelete
  109. AvonleaMistApril 4, 2015 at 5:08 PM

    Whoa... are you a leftover Hydra agent who wasn't revealed ?

    ReplyDelete
  110. Alex ForrestApril 4, 2015 at 6:07 PM

    If it's a betrayal from the PoV of the person who was betrayed, that's what matters. Otherwise, as I said, you might as well say WARD didn't betray his teammates either.

    ReplyDelete
  111. LaurenApril 4, 2015 at 6:10 PM

    Personally I want to know when ward and agent 33 are coming back so it can be a showdown between them and Skye and Lincoln

    ReplyDelete
  112. Alex ForrestApril 4, 2015 at 6:15 PM

    The Victoria Hand analogy doesn't work, in my opinion, because as you say she DID believe Coulson to be Hydra. Gonzales and crew, however, had Bobbi and Mack reporting to them for months, and know full well that Coulson was loyal to SHIELD and had been working tirelessly to thwart Hydra and protect the world. There is no need to use force against someone who is clearly on the same side on you and means you no harm, and the issue is simply a difference of opinion. Again, Bobbi and Mack would've been able to attest to the fact that Coulson is a reasonable man and there was no reason whatsoever not to approach him openly.


    Also, do you not find it quite hypocritical for Gonzales to declare that transparency is Olmost SHIELD's ideology and then operate in complete secrecy by having two of his agents infiltrate Coulson's team?


    It's funny to me that you describe FitzSimmons' behavior in this clip as childish, when that's exactly how I feel about Olmost SHIELD's actions. What does a child do when not getting their way? Smash all the toys in anger. Gonzales and company weren't pleased with the man in charge of SHIELD, so they staged a coup to forcibly remove him from power.

    ReplyDelete
  113. ElharApril 4, 2015 at 6:24 PM

    I don't think it's about hurt feelings, though obviously those are there too. It's about who can you trust on the field and who you can't, who do you dare to turn your back to?


    Last season they fought their way through the "who is working for Hydra" mud, being accused then almost killed because they trusted people who exploited this. At this moment RS hasn't shown anything, which would prove that their coup brings them closer to the goals of SHIELD, so it worth it. With all the speech of transparency and no-secrets and democracy they didn't tried to prove their points, the hit below the belt.


    Coulson might not be the most perfect leader, might be wrong about things, but he has proven that he would go to hell and back for the members of his team. He has also proven that if it comes to that, it doesn't matter any previous disgreements. In a small field team to earn and keep this trust is the key to any successful operation. Gonzales team hasn't earned it yet, just the opposite. No wonder, that neither of them are eager to join them.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Alex ForrestApril 4, 2015 at 6:42 PM

    Personally, I wouldn't go that far because I do understand why they feel that Coulson isn't the rightful Director of the organization. A power vacuum was created after the fall of SHIELD and I guess there were no clear protocols as to how to re-establish it.


    Olmost SHIELD doesn't know that Fury survived past the day SHIELD fell, so it doesn't know that Coulson was appointed by Fury to rebuild the organization (Coulson told Gonzales "Fury chose me" but since he didn't explicitly state that Fury is alive, as he's keeping his secret, Gonzales assumes he just meant Fury was grooming him to be his successor).


    We also have to remember that Fury answered to the World Security Council (at least one member of whom is still alive), so technically, it's not clear if he even had the authority to appoint his successor in the first place. I know SHIELD isn't a corporation like any other, but in a corporation, the CEO doesn't appoint his or her successor; the Board of Directors does.


    The above is why I think Olmost SHIELD's objection to Coulson being Director is understandable. The affect of the alien blood on Coulson's psyche, down to carving weird stuff and locking Skye in Vault D, is obviously an added reason. And their taking issue with specific decisions made by him is understandable as well.


    Where they DON'T get a pass, however, is the manner in which they chose to address these concerns. If you don't like the person in charge, that doesn't give you the right to stage a violent coup and forcibly remove him or her from power. That way lies chaos. For all of Gonzales' blabbing about transparency and no secrets, he's demonstrated the exact opposite by sending two spies into Coulson's team and forcibly taking over his operation. Not to mention that the aforementioned spies could've fully attested to the fact that Coulson is a reasonable man and there's no reason not to just TALK to him, as Coulson even pointed out that Gonzales should've done.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Alex ForrestApril 4, 2015 at 6:44 PM

    Why would there be a showdown between these two pairs?

    ReplyDelete
  116. Alex ForrestApril 4, 2015 at 6:57 PM

    "Killing" is a broad term. The other agents have killed terrorists and criminals in battle, fighting to protect themselves or others. In any other situation, they've used ICERs (for example, May in this episode - she could've killed Gonzales and his agents but she iced them). Ward has killed people who were of no immediate threat to him or others such as Thomas Nash, Hand and her men, the guards at the Fridge, Eric Koenig and those 2 soldiers last episode. He could've non-lethally incapacitated all of those - yes, his cover as a Hydra mole would've been blown, but that's not a good enough reason to kill someone. That's why Ward is a murderer while people like May, Coulson and Fitz are merely killers.


    And yes, there are a lot of grey zones in a show about spies, hence this entire "real SHIELD" storyline, but that doesn't mean characters get a free pass on just about everything. There ARE still moral lines that shouldn't be crossed.

    ReplyDelete
  117. fan2000April 4, 2015 at 7:00 PM

    Look at Cap.... He kills people..... He is an honest good hearted person with a pure intentions which have been magnified by the super soldier serum... But I imagine if one were to beg for mercy he would just knock them out.. But he has killed quite a few..... He is soldier who follows orders and believed truth and justice...

    ReplyDelete
  118. Alex ForrestApril 4, 2015 at 7:02 PM

    I'm not defending the actions of Gonzales and crew for a second. I just don't think they don't even qualify as SHIELD anymore because of them.


    That being said, mileage varies, and this storyline is obviously succeeding in being thought-provoking if there are so many different responses to and views of it.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Bruce_FApril 4, 2015 at 7:11 PM

    "I just don't think they don't even qualify as SHIELD anymore because of them."


    I guess that's the sticking point. That's where we differ. These guys created their own SHIELD (even creating a new version of the logo as well) and took to calling themselves the "real" SHIELD, implying that they are two separate entities. They didn't take over the existing SHIELD. They went so far as to create their own, dismantle the old SHIELD, and replace it with their own version. Their actions don't indicate to me that they're all SHIELD, especially when they imply there's a right SHIELD and a wrong SHIELD.


    Anyway, your right in that mileage may vary. This is ultimately a minor point of contention in this storyline.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Greice MoreiraApril 4, 2015 at 7:55 PM

    Oh no I was uncovered! Hail Hydra ;) XD

    ReplyDelete
  121. Alex ForrestApril 4, 2015 at 8:15 PM

    I hope that's not the case because it would make Gonzales too evil, as opposed to ambiguous, if he ordered Skye's execution based on only a vague assessment that she was dangerous (which in turn would strip some of the complexity away from this storyline). I hope Calderon and the other agent who tried to shoot Skye with real bullets were acting on their own.

    ReplyDelete
  122. ElharApril 4, 2015 at 9:12 PM

    Sorry, but in this argument there are more holes than in a quailty emmentaler. I don't deny that they see themselves as SHIELD and they don't do this for evil reasons. But aside from this, nothing stands.

    - "This Shield is just Shield, but with a more democratic approach" - probably has never been around any armed forces. They don't work on popularity votes. A five person junta is exatly as democratic or anti-democratic as a one person leadership, if below them there is an order chain. Five person only means that each one of them can tell when the sh*t hits the fan that it was because of the other four.

    - "Coulson's team is that they are more loyal to Coulson than they are to Shield"

    Obviously you have missed the point that all of them believed and trusted Coulson that what he does it serves the SHIELD's goals. I can't remember anything what denied this trust.

    - "No wonder they followed him even when he was nuts and made a lot of bad decisions without anyone complaining." - A) they complained and argued, a lot. Finally it was Coulson's word which mattered, but yeah, that's what happens in a rank and file system.

    B) They went after Coulson even when they have doubts partly because trusted him (it's not an easy thing to gain) partly because they knew that he would never let them down. Any of them. Go to the battlefield where are real bullets flying and then say that this mutual trust is a bad thing - wish you a nice long agony.

    - "Coulson only worries about his small bus people" -Interesting, I can't remember that Gonzales and his RS were so keen to give assistance - not even to reveal their presence. I bet Coulson would have been happy if he shouldn't have storm Garrett's Hydra HQ with only four people. Also, Can't remember that Hartley had told anything about an existing SHIELD command. So when Coulson thought with all good reason that they are the ones who remained - who else should have had him been worried about?

    - "real Shield has some bad seeds like the guy who tried to kill Daisy" - May I remind you that this "guy" was not some lame footsoldier, but one of the five, very trustworthy people who themselves decided that they are best to lead this organization? I'm not saying that the rest is the same, but I think it's pretty justified not to trust in an organization which head is rotten.

    - "the possibility of internal conflicts" - that's true, with the RS on the table, there are a lot new dramaturgy option for the writers and this is good. However it is only good for us, the viewers. For the characters in the show it would be good only if they knew that they are fictional characters in a tv show. Until they don't know this their adverse feelings to the RS are anything but childish, just the opposite.

    ReplyDelete
  123. AvonleaMistApril 4, 2015 at 9:55 PM

    Or at least Raina's cousin, thrice removed, pre transformation, of course.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Beatriz MorenoApril 4, 2015 at 10:17 PM

    I actually already wrote about this somewhere else, as I had the same mindset as you, and then I really thought about it and this is what I came up with [I'm just gonna paste what I had written (I hope you don't mind), it would just be tedious and frustrating to have to rewrite the same message in a different way. Tell me what you think.]:

    I'm not so worried about Simmons leaving anymore, I guess we're all so shocked about her position on super powered people that we're forgetting to analyze the facts. From the promo we know that Gonzales is planning on killing Skye and Coulson, something we know Simmons wouldn't agree with. We also know that Simmons keeps mentioning Trip all the time as an explanation for the way she's been acting. But in the end, Trip died to protect THIS Shield, not the real one, would Simmons go against the Shield her friend believed in, her friend who sacrificed himself?

    We forget that Simmons changed BECAUSE of Trip's death, BECAUSE of the tragedy that happened to Fitz and (what she considers as such) to Skye. She might be going at it the wrong way (leaving Fitz and restraining Skye's powers), but has there been any evidence that she hasn't always been trying to protect her friends, her team? Would she leave them? She joined Hydra to help for crying out loud!

    She might be a lot of things, but I don't think she would turn her back on them because she has a FEW things in common with Olmost Shield. In the end if she does join them than you can bet that it will be in her friends' best interest and for no other reason.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Beatriz MorenoApril 4, 2015 at 10:19 PM

    LOL, that's true, but who cares :D Showdowns are always welcome in this show for whatever reason (ok maybe not WHATEVER reason, I can think of a few that would be tragic), not that this one would make much sense.

    ReplyDelete
  126. StephanieApril 4, 2015 at 11:02 PM

    I heart FitzSimmons. That is all. :)

    ReplyDelete
  127. Beatriz MorenoApril 5, 2015 at 2:51 AM

    Pure and simple, I commend you for that. :)

    ReplyDelete
  128. Folie-lexApril 5, 2015 at 4:10 AM

    My argument is, and I maintain, fear is what seems to be driving her in this second part of the season. And fear is a big foe. It sneaks up on you and takes over without you really realizing. So I'm still not 100% sure she's not vulnerable to be persuaded by this "Real" SHIELD crap.

    ReplyDelete
  129. nivekiousApril 5, 2015 at 8:53 AM

    They betrayed SHIELD the moment they disregarded Fury's orders.

    ReplyDelete
  130. nivekiousApril 5, 2015 at 9:06 AM

    Why do you think he wants the Gifted Index so badly? He sees anything alien or powerful as a threat to be destroyed, rather than "hoarded" as Fury did with them.

    ReplyDelete
  131. Coastal5April 5, 2015 at 9:06 AM

    They did indeed betray Fury; but for the right reasons. But they never betrayed Coulson and team (though I accept Coulson and team felt betrayed) because their intention was always to spy on them and disarm them of Fury's box.
    Imagine the Chief of your company, who is charged with saving the world, does alien writing on the walls and admits he may be compromised. Surely it should be your duty to do something about it, hence the "Real Shield" are arguably doing the right thing. What I think they did so wrong, and goes to the nub of why we're all talking about betrayal, is that they did it underhandedly.
    The "Real Shield" should have openly challenged Coulson and debated his fitness as leader instead of plotted to overthrow him. However, I guess they'd argue that couldn't take that chance in case Coulson activated alien tech or Fury's box to keep them from challenging him.

    ReplyDelete
  132. nivekiousApril 5, 2015 at 9:09 AM

    So if someone ran into your office, forced your boss out at gunpoint and declared themselves to be in charge, you'd just do whatever they said?

    ReplyDelete
  133. nivekiousApril 5, 2015 at 9:10 AM

    They are if you like your "gifteds" alive.

    ReplyDelete
  134. nivekiousApril 5, 2015 at 9:13 AM

    The only orders to not kill Skye came from Bobbi. I'm assuming the other agents consider her emotionally compromised and just ignored whatever she said. The fact that both agents who we saw confront Skye were using bullets goes to show that they're plan for superhumans is extermination regardless of who they are.

    ReplyDelete
  135. Alex ForrestApril 5, 2015 at 10:35 AM

    That still doesn't necessarily mean he wants to exterminate all gifteds, Hitler-style. It's possible he just wants to place harsher restrictions on them (whereas Fury thought they could be useful). This could be the beginning of the Civil War Registration Act.

    I'm not defending Gonzales, for the record. He and his friends are assholes, plain and simple. But I don't think he's the epitome of mustache (quite literally in this case) twirling villain just yet.

    ReplyDelete
  136. ElharApril 5, 2015 at 11:07 AM

    Again: these are assumptions. Can be right, can be wrong. That both agents' gun was loaded with bullets (I think you referred to the guy who Skye knocked out) isn't a "fact" - it was a shot into the air, the icer has the same sound. The only official order we've heard yet was that Sky has to be retrieved, not killed.

    As far as "the only orders to not kill Skye came from Bobbi" concerns, I saw Bobby was on the same level of hierarchy then the others. She is one of the five equal leaders. There can be a hidden agenda of the other four (it's far from being impossible), but at this moment there are no proof of it, just the prejudice.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Greice MoreiraApril 5, 2015 at 1:34 PM

    How strange, I always like flowers too! :D

    ReplyDelete
  138. Greice MoreiraApril 5, 2015 at 1:41 PM

    Thank you guys for putting your arguments politely. You all gave me a lot to think about. I haven't como to a conclusion. I will watch more episodes to see what's the real deal with this real Shield hehe I think if I was team Colson, I would still infiltrate them to find out about them instead just leaving. I had tons of fun talking to you. Love you <3

    ReplyDelete
  139. Historical_MaterialistApril 5, 2015 at 2:26 PM

    If they had a gun? Yeah, and so would you.


    But that's obviously not what you're trying to argue. You're trying to argue (poorly, I'm afraid to say) that this is a matter of personal ethics; mine and yours.


    By challenging my original comment, and lets be clear: you're not just saying you disagree, you're challenging my argument. By challenging it, you're choosing to inject what I as a person might actually do and you're being critical of it. You've basically said: if this happened to you, you'd be outraged too so you're wrong to be critical of Fitz and Simmons. By extension you've implied that you would act differently, that you would also be defiant and be loyal to your friends, in the same situation.


    My simple response to that is: give yourself a shake and realize that this is a TV show and not reality, so the argument of how you or I would act is invalid because you and I are not spies working for a clandestine security organization like SHIELD.

    ReplyDelete
  140. LaurenApril 5, 2015 at 3:57 PM

    I wonder why they haven't posted episode 2.18 yet

    ReplyDelete
  141. sparky42April 5, 2015 at 4:57 PM

    On the show there's always been a sound difference between a gun and an ICER, I'm fairly sure it was a live round. All the leaders bar Bobbi have been far more negative towards Skye so it's not much of a reach to think that they were willing to order her dead (particularly if the speech about Weaver's experience is true).

    ReplyDelete
  142. JsApril 5, 2015 at 5:22 PM

    Fitz and Jemma being a hardass together to the "Real S.H.I.E.L.D" might actually bring back the science babies we once loved.

    ReplyDelete
  143. ElharApril 5, 2015 at 5:51 PM

    I won't repeat more times: these are what you think, not what we have any proof about yet. It's possible this will happen, the seeds are there, but these are only assumptions now. SHIELD has always wanted to keep the "special" persons under surveillance and evaluation, didn't kill them on sight - otherwise there were no Index.

    ReplyDelete
  144. nivekiousApril 5, 2015 at 8:32 PM

    My point is there is no legitimacy to the "real" SHIELD's claim to power. They aren't just being loyal to their friends, but to their properly appointed commander. It's in no way unprofessional to refuse to follow the orders of people who just forced their way into your facility and proclaimed themselves your new bosses.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Historical_MaterialistApril 5, 2015 at 9:07 PM

    Neither group has legitimacy. They are both technically rogue organizations since SHIELD disbanded a year ago.


    The fact that Fury asked Coulson to rebuild SHIELD doesn't give Coulson's team any added legitimacy and/or legality because SHIELD isn't his to give away.


    They are ALL of them SHIELD professionals. I keep saying professionals and not just agents because they are all trained, experienced and dedicated. They are professionals. They've been through the academy, taken their oaths, have accepted work assignments and have recognized the chain of command that they all worked under for many years.


    Everything that we have seen so far suggests that Gonzales and his people are exactly what they they say they are: SHIELD. Other than being douchey about it we haven't seen anything to suggest they are up to "no good". My original comment above is based on two points of view: 1) if Fitz and Simmons believe that these people are not SHIELD: that they are evil doers of some kind then yes; they are fully justified in acting how they are. If however 2) they acknowledge what appears to be the case: that these are in fact genuine former members of SHIELD working as they themselves have been also doing; to restore SHIELD, then their behavior is unprofessional.

    ReplyDelete
  146. nivekiousApril 5, 2015 at 9:18 PM

    Wouldn't that make Gonzales and his people equally unprofessional for wasting months trying to overthrow Coulson while Coulson was fighting Hydra?

    ReplyDelete
  147. Alex ForrestApril 5, 2015 at 9:30 PM

    The icer has a blue light, not the same as normal gunfire, and the gun belonging to the agent who fought Skye clearly shot a regular bullet into the air when they struggled. I'm not saying Gonzales and the other leaders wanted Skye killed - so far, we've only seen him order her capture - but at least two of Olmost SHIELD's agents, Calderon and the aforementioned guy, DID go for the kill.


    That being said, like you, I won't judge Bobbi until I see the next episode. It's still possible that seeing two of her cohorts attempt to use lethal force against Skye will cause her loyalties to shift.

    ReplyDelete
  148. Beatriz MorenoApril 5, 2015 at 9:45 PM

    But that's exactly what I'm saying, I believe her fear for her friends' safety is bigger than her fear from super-natural things and for that reason she won't side with Olmost Shield, because of the risk they present for her friends.

    ReplyDelete
  149. Historical_MaterialistApril 5, 2015 at 10:30 PM

    No it wouldn't because:


    1) We don't know what Gonzales' team has been up to. We can't say for certain that they haven't been doing anything to fight HYDRA.


    2) That alone also wouldn't make their actions or lack of it "unprofessional". There is difference between policy and behavior. Not going after HYDRA (which we still can't say for certain is the case) might be bad policy but its not unprofessional.


    Refusing to shake the hand of a high ranking SHIELD officer and responding with a snarky attitude while an attempt is being made to explain their actions: that's unprofessional.

    ReplyDelete
  150. nivekiousApril 5, 2015 at 10:51 PM

    They just lead the highest ranking SHIELD officer through the base in handcuffs. How is their contempt for Colson better than Coulson's team's contempt for them? Why is it OK for one side to take over by force but not for the others to want to take control back?

    ReplyDelete
  151. JadeApril 6, 2015 at 12:02 AM

    I AGREE! I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY!!!! Ward saved Simmons' life to gain the trust of the team. So considering that, I am pretty sure that Bobbi was doing the same thing with Simmons so the team wouldn't suspect that anything fishy was going on.

    ReplyDelete
  152. Beatriz MorenoApril 6, 2015 at 1:03 AM

    I don't know, I really do believe that Mack and Bobbi care about them, but I also think they're both deluded in thinking that they're actually helping. If real Shield really wanted to help, they would have tried to cooperate with Coulson, maybe then Coulson would have been open-minded to a democratic Shield, but they won't know that will they, because they opted for the offensive approach.

    ReplyDelete
  153. Folie-lexApril 6, 2015 at 2:25 AM

    Well that's where we differ. I think her fear of the unknown is growing bigger.
    And I think it will overtake her, so much so that she could be persuaded that the "Real" SHIELD approach and their way might be the better to maintain and contrain control of the things they don't understand, and therefore protect everyone.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Beatriz MorenoApril 6, 2015 at 6:17 AM

    I guess this falls more into the view of what we think the character is, rather then what we know for sure. Guess we'll have to wait and see :)

    ReplyDelete
  155. ElharApril 6, 2015 at 7:15 AM

    Thanks, in this case I'm sorry, I was wrong, I haven't realised any on-screen distinction between the two ammos.

    However even this doesn't support the claim of the original comment, that Bobby doesn't care whether Skye was going to be killed or not.

    From storytelling POV the logical step would be if there were rifts between the junta about how to deal an inhuman/enhanced situation. (We don't know if they needed to handle any since SHIELD had fallen.) It would give more field of the different alliances, changing opinions and sides - if they all were simply short sighted bigots there were no need to have four of them.

    As a side note, I must that negative attitude is pretty much justified. As far as the show concerns Skye is the first inhuman, somebody who was not purposefully transformed. The previous cases were all enhanced and up to this point we know only two enhanced who were NOT modified with a sinister reason: Captain America and Hulk. And Hulk isn't the epitome of being harmless either...
    After SHIELD had fallen they practically lost the means and the facilities (like the Fridge, like the surveillance over the institutions where dangerous people were kept) where they could contain somebody who has uber-human abilities and unknown, but possibly evil intentions.

    ReplyDelete
  156. swanprideApril 6, 2015 at 7:55 PM

    Despite Jemma slipping in a certain direction, I think her bound to Coulson, Skye, May and Fitz is too strong to accept those intruders. But I wouldn't be surprised if she put her new lying skills to good use.

    ReplyDelete
  157. swanprideApril 6, 2015 at 7:56 PM

    Battelstar Shield

    ReplyDelete
  158. Folie-lexApril 6, 2015 at 8:01 PM

    Personally I've lost quite a bit of my confidence in her, so I'm not so sure is can't be persuaded.

    ReplyDelete
  159. swanprideApril 6, 2015 at 8:01 PM

    Are you trolling? Battlestar Shield lost the argument when they decided to attack fellow Shield agents. Fitz could have died just because he stood at the wrong place when the wall blew in. They are hunting Coulson and Skye for what they are. Never mind all those Shield agents which died or were captured by Hydra because Battlestar Shield withhold resources from Coulson he could have used to rescue them. They are partly responsible for what happened to Agent 33. If Coulson had their equipment he could have reached her in time. But they were too busy plotting against him, instead of working with him.

    ReplyDelete
  160. swanprideApril 6, 2015 at 8:04 PM

    Actually Coulson was the highest ranking agent which (officially) survived Shield. Even without Fury appointing him he would have been the interim commander until a new one is appointed through the proper channels (whatever they are, I guess the World Council did it beforehand, who knows if it still exists). So, yeah, he does have a legitimate claim.

    ReplyDelete
  161. JadeApril 6, 2015 at 9:41 PM

    Good point. They very well might care about them, but as you said, they are deluded in thinking that they are helping. Who knows maybe Bobbi really does/did want to befriend Simmons, I guess time will tell how she really feels about the team. And I agree that if the "real Shield" truly wanted to help, they could have gone about this in a VERY different way. hahaha

    ReplyDelete
  162. ThulaLaniApril 7, 2015 at 2:56 PM

    Yay. I hope we'll see what Lincoln can do. I hope it's awesome, although Gordon and his swagfest have me by the knickers.

    ReplyDelete
  163. Anna BenderApril 7, 2015 at 3:02 PM

    Lincoln seems to be a nonchalant guy with a kinda bubbly personality, similar to S1 Skye. So far I like him.

    ReplyDelete
  164. Greice MoreiraApril 7, 2015 at 3:15 PM

    Ok I'm already in love with Lincoln! I think this Shield x Shield is kinda procedural moving forward the plot, but the best part is the Inhumans, but since they can't advance too much with them, they have this Shield internal struggle that at the same time sets the mood to Civil War. What I'm not seeing is how all these ties with Avengers 2?

    ReplyDelete
  165. sparky42April 7, 2015 at 3:29 PM

    Interesting as hell, can't wait for more info about the Inhumans and what Skye is going through. Late enough for this to come out isn't it?

    ReplyDelete
  166. Beatriz MorenoApril 7, 2015 at 4:02 PM

    I don't think they weren't plotting against Coulson - like everyone is saying - as much as standing back and watching how he handled things, which yes, is just as bad. They could have helped, they could have interveined and if they had, they could have avoided both Hartely's and Trip's death (and Idaho, everybody always forgets him), but instead they just sat on their fat bums and watched, all so that they could analyze Coulson's leadership.

    It's like you're a doctor, someone gets hurt, and there's a nurse next to you treating that person. You could help, but you want to assess whether or not that nurse is any good so you watch. The injured person dies and you decide to strip the nurse of her license because she wasn't good enough. THAT'S unprofessional.
    Technically, if you want to talk abou Shield like a corporation and unprofessionalism then what Bobbi did, by disobeying Fury's orders and not blowing up the ship, was "unprofessional".

    The fact is, this isn't about that. This is about two factions rising out of the ashes of a once great organization, it's about two clashing ideals and loyalty; it's not about professionalism, these aren't workers, they're not soldiers, this isn't just a job, it's not about the money or they would have left a long time ago. It's about what they believe in and who they believe can carry that ideal.Who has the right to rebuild Shield from scratch and how it should be done.

    For all of these people, from both sides, this is their life.

    It's not about doing the "professional thing" that would be true if this were an established and whole , legal organization, but like you said it's not.

    That being said, I don't see Bobbi's and crew's actions, neither Fitz' and Simmons', as unprofessional, they're sticking to what they believe in and they're right for it.

    ReplyDelete
  167. KarriApril 7, 2015 at 4:23 PM

    Yay Lincoln! Looks good. Can't wait for tonight!

    ReplyDelete
  168. MarkGambleApril 7, 2015 at 4:49 PM

    Bit late I know.


    It is very simple really, the other shield is in no way legitimate and they know it, why do you think they called themselves the "Real Shield". The fact they did that pretty much proves that they are not the "Real Shield" or in fact any Shield at all. Looks to me like they just wet themselves after Hydra's attack, if Garrett was alive he would be laughing his socks off.


    Hoping to see Ward join up with Coulson, right now Bobbi and Mack are not much different to Garrett really (he at least was not in denial about his motives) and Ward is a class above as he at least has an excuse being recruited young when he was vulnerable. Mack and Bobbi have no such excuses to hide behind and Bobbi judging from her reactions knows it.


    If you want to know who the real "Shield" is just ask a former member of Hydra. Olmos character has broken the chain of command upon which all armed forces exist, Coulson was named Director by Nick Fury and thus the chain of command is unbroken in his case. Wonder when/if Nick Fury will be brought back in.


    Clearly this is all to do with building up to Civil War but I think they started this story line up too soon as it will be a while before the next Captain America film is ready.

    ReplyDelete
  169. Stephen S. BowmanApril 7, 2015 at 5:12 PM

    hmm lincoln can say that but he don't have all the details either

    ReplyDelete
  170. Stephen S. BowmanApril 7, 2015 at 5:21 PM

    hmm interesting lincoln not wrong but that was not coulson's orders

    ReplyDelete
  171. Alex ForrestApril 7, 2015 at 5:34 PM

    Just hearing Luke Mitchell's voice again turns me to mush. Sigh. But anyway, I hope Lincoln and his people turn out to be benign and genuinely help Skye through her transition, as he seems to be doing here (and you gotta love the fact that every NuHuman gets a "transitioner"!). We've had enough betrayal and heartbreak lately. I can see why the Inhumans would be suspicious of Coulson and crew because I don't expect them to be able to tell the two SHIELDs apart: from their perspective, all government organizations that want to monitor "gifteds" are enemies. Still, I hope their intentions for Skye are good, and if she wants to go back they don't stop her.

    ReplyDelete
  172. Alex ForrestApril 7, 2015 at 5:37 PM

    "Bobbi and Mack are not much different to Garrett really (he at least was not in denial about his motives) and Ward is a class above as he at least has an excuse being recruited young when he was vulnerable."


    I tend to think the more important distinction is that Ward has murdered innocent people (quite a few, actually), while Bobbi and Mack have not. I'm not making excuses for Bobbi and Mack's poor choice, nor asking for them to be forgiven so quickly when they've betrayed Coulson and company in a pretty big way, but they are not nearly as bad as Ward.

    ReplyDelete
  173. Alex ForrestApril 7, 2015 at 5:40 PM

    Some people have joked that Lincoln's power might be one of the three T's (teleportation, telepathy and telekinesis) from The Tomorrow People, Luke Mitchell's previous show. Since Gordon is a teleporter, I have to say, it would be pretty funny if Lincoln had telepathy/telekinesis and another Inhuman had the third T...

    ReplyDelete
  174. LittleDreamerApril 7, 2015 at 5:42 PM

    I'm quite looking forward to seeing more of Leo. He wouldn't be leaving if it wasn't part of a plan.

    ReplyDelete
  175. MarkGambleApril 7, 2015 at 5:59 PM

    Hi Alex


    I agree Ward has done some bad things but he was recruited into Hydra at a young age and that counts for a lot, he was told by the man he trusted with his life that Shield was the enemy and acted accordingly, he also seems to be trying to redeem himself which makes a big difference.


    He accepts he was wrong and wants to make amends and not be manipulated any more, Gonzales is the exact opposite, there are many ways he could have handled things there was no need for all the betrayal and cloak and dagger crap if they are all as he says "on the same team".


    Gonzales words don't match his actions or the actions of his operatives.

    ReplyDelete
  176. sparky42April 7, 2015 at 5:59 PM

    Makes you wonder just how much they can know? I mean they found Skye in the middle of nowhere, they found Cal. Can Gordon or one of the others see everything? Since even Skye doesn't know about the othr Shield, I can see her struggling with Shield trying to kill her. On the other hand she should know that those that attacked her had more Quinnjet's then Shield had.

    ReplyDelete
  177. sparky42April 7, 2015 at 6:03 PM

    He's redeeming himself by killing US military personnel? That's a funny view on how you go about redeeming yourself. "I've killed for Nazis, now I just kill for myself, I'm so much better!" Bobbi and Mack both made it clear that they didn't want any loss of life in the Op. Mack (as much as I dislike him) got injured trying to protect Fitz, Bobbi several times made it clear she wanted non lethal means when they went for Skye. Ward just would have rackd up the body count if it was him running the Op.

    ReplyDelete
  178. MarkGambleApril 7, 2015 at 6:11 PM

    What military personnel? I am talking about after Garrett was dead as before that they were enemy agents, since then he hasn't killed anyone except his brother after making him admit what he did many years previously to his younger brother.


    When Coulson and the team were after him he had a bomb and was armed on the bus but he only did that to ensure he was not interfered with.


    I think he is being setup to become a Punisher type character.

    ReplyDelete
  179. sparky42April 7, 2015 at 6:18 PM

    Did you miss General Talbot saying "He killed two of my men!"?

    ReplyDelete
  180. ThulaLaniApril 7, 2015 at 6:31 PM

    The Punisher? No. Frank Castle was a good cop whose family was murdered before he became the Punisher. Ward is the furthest thing from being the Punisher. He killed the FBI agents transporting him to his brother, he killed his whole family except for Thomas 9we still don't know where he is, if he's dead or alive) and he killed two military personnel in the episode "Love in the time of Hydra".

    ReplyDelete
  181. MarkGambleApril 7, 2015 at 6:39 PM

    I missed that episode but read lots of reviews which did not mention any deaths and sounded a bit boring so didn't watch it, I will go back and watch it, makes me wonder if Ward still sees Talbot as an enemy if so.


    Either way it looks like Coulson is going to be calling on Ward and Agent 33 for assistance to retake Shield HQ as right now he does not have the forces to do it.

    ReplyDelete
  182. DeanApril 7, 2015 at 7:15 PM

    If they turn Lincoln, Gordon into bad guys will be too easy and lazy work. It would be good to see new characters actually doing some good instead of more betrayals to try to shock people.
    I get the feeling Skye will want to check in with Coulson to see if everyone is ok before going full in with the inhuman. That way he won't waste the little resource he has trying to find her.

    ReplyDelete
  183. Alex ForrestApril 7, 2015 at 7:18 PM

    Well, others have replied for me so I won't repeat their words, but in a nutshell: Ward is making no attempt to redeem himself. Even if he deserved a second chance after what had gone down last season, he's wasted that chance by continuing to kill when he didn't have to.


    Gonzales is full of shit, I'm not denying that for a second... his violent coup to remove Coulson from power was despicable. But as far as we know, he's not a murderer, so he's still better than Ward as far as I'm concerned.

    ReplyDelete
  184. ThulaLaniApril 7, 2015 at 7:26 PM

    Talbot wants him behind bars, I think he probably sees him as an enemy. Talbot sure sees him that way.

    ReplyDelete
  185. Alex ForrestApril 7, 2015 at 7:50 PM

    What I'd like to see is the Inhumans essentially being neutral: they just want to be left alone, if you don't mess with them they don't mess with you. I think it fits with how they're depicted in the comics, too. It's completely understandable for them to be wary of SHIELD, but hopefully they aren't out there doing evil.


    And yeah, I hope Skye will get a chance to tell Coulson where she is, so he can at least lay that concern to rest and focus on dealing with Gonzales.

    ReplyDelete
  186. Alex ForrestApril 7, 2015 at 7:55 PM

    Some have suggested that the mysterious cargo on Gonzales' ship could tie into Age of Ultron somehow. Whatever it is has to be pretty darn important for Fury to have ordered Bobbi to sink the ship and kill hundreds of SHIELD agents just to keep it out of Hydra's hands. I've seen suggestions that it could be Ultron or the Twins (Quicksilver & Scarlet Witch). I think the Twins are unlikely, since Hydra did in fact have them in the end of Winter Soldier and if they had succeeded in stealing the cargo, Gonzales wouldn't be saying that Fury's orders had been wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  187. MarkGambleApril 7, 2015 at 8:00 PM

    Thanks for all your constructive responses and I can appreciate your views on Ward, I just cant see any other use for him except against Real Shield in some kind of redemption arc.


    I like many others are wondering if Gonzales will really let Fitz go without a fuss. Not that it matters as Coulson is coming for him anyway.


    Personally I think Ward is what Hydra made him to be and yet he spared Fitzsimmons when Garrett told him to kill them (he's a bit of a mess isn't he).


    Perhaps it will be clearer when we are nearer to the end of the season.

    ReplyDelete
  188. MarkGambleApril 7, 2015 at 8:02 PM

    Perhaps in the end not destroying the ship may end up being the biggest mistake of all.

    ReplyDelete
  189. Alex ForrestApril 7, 2015 at 8:37 PM

    You're very welcome. I understand the need to bring Ward back into the forefront if he's going to stay on the show, I just think that Coulson turning to him for help, at this point, is pretty difficult to believe. Especially when there are other people like Maria Hill and Deathlok that he can turn to, and likely trusts a lot more than he does Ward (I know Deathlok worked for Hydra too, but he literally had a gun to his as well as his son's head).
    A redemption for Ward could've worked if done very carefully, BUT to do that, the writers would've had to have him try to atone for his sins from the moment he escaped. Instead, they've had him continue to kill, so I don't really understand what they're trying to do with him. Nothing he has done on screen so far suggests that he's angling for a redemption (even the information he gave SHIELD was to get in Skye's good graces - if he really wanted to help, he would've been willing to talk to Coulson instead of forcing him to send Skye down there).


    Oh, and just a note on FitzSimmons - I don't believe Ward spared them at all. Dropping the pod with them into the ocean was very, very likely to result in their deaths. Consider the following:
    1) They could've died from the impact of the pod hitting the water, unless Ward also knows enough about physics that he knew it wouldn't happen because the plane was flying at such low altitude.
    2) The pod sank to the bottom of the ocean - Fitz did say "I've been trying to figure out why we sank", meaning that he expected the pod to float, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Ward did (we don't know if he knew anything about how the pod worked).
    3) Even if the pod floated, or FitzSimmons found a way to get out of it (which is what happened) - they would be stuck in the middle of the ocean with no rescue. There is no way on earth Ward could've known that Nick Fury, who he didn't even know is alive, would show up to save them.
    4) Ward is the one who captured FitzSimmons and brought them to the plane in the first place. That's the only reason this situation even occurred.

    ReplyDelete
  190. Stephen S. BowmanApril 7, 2015 at 8:47 PM

    yea you figure the she be smart enough to put the pieces together regardless what lincoln tells her

    ReplyDelete
  191. Stephen S. BowmanApril 7, 2015 at 8:49 PM

    well to be honest skye is half human half inhuman to so their theory about humans they can't expect skye to just abandon them

    ReplyDelete
  192. Stephen S. BowmanApril 7, 2015 at 8:50 PM

    i like this ideal myself

    ReplyDelete
  193. Stephen S. BowmanApril 7, 2015 at 8:54 PM

    well we know agent dip shit got what he deserve for comming after skye at least

    ReplyDelete
  194. MarkGambleApril 7, 2015 at 9:05 PM

    I can definitely see Deathlok coming back in at this point and possibly Maria Hill but I believe she works for Tony Stark now, still there is space for Ward and with the title of the next episode it makes more sense for it to be Ward. Hard to say how they will make it happen but Deathlok doesn't fit with the title and neither does Maria Hill who have never really been enemies of Shield (I don't class Deathlok as a former enemy at all as he had no choice).


    In my opinion if Ward had wanted Fitz and Simmonds dead they would be dead, hes not the sort to beat around the bush, if I remember correctly he even had the gun in his hand and chose to jettison the detention cell instead. He must have known that the bus was being followed which of course it was, the detention cell itself in incredibly strong and as a senior agent he could know that the fall would not have killed them.


    Ultimately we have to accept as well that the Detention Cell did what it did because the script required it.


    It would have been much easier for him to just shoot them, he has never shown any problems with doing it before, when Garrett ordered him to kill them I thought they were goners.


    Well we wont have long to wait to find out, on a side note I think Jackie definitely deserves a return to Shield and she would be of great use in Coulson's action against Gonzales as her actions are through no fault of her own.


    Can you imagine if it is setup like a contrast between the two sides, Gonzales, Bobbi and Mack plus "Real Shield" versus Coulson, May, Hunter, maybe Deathlok, Ward and Jackie. I don't know about you but I would pay to see that. What goes around comes around after all.


    Redemption and Tolerance versus Conformity and Control.


    You never know he may go to Talbot for help although I know its a long shot.

    ReplyDelete
  195. MarkGambleApril 7, 2015 at 9:09 PM

    Amen to that he had it coming all right, he will probably try it on the Hulk next.

    ReplyDelete
  196. Alex ForrestApril 7, 2015 at 9:26 PM

    I'm pretty sure the pod FitzSimmons went into was bulletproof, so he couldn't have shot them.


    Who's Jackie?

    ReplyDelete
  197. Alex ForrestApril 7, 2015 at 9:28 PM

    Come to think about it, why didn't Fury order Bobbi to just destroy the cargo itself, rater than the whole ship? Is it something so volatile that even if she tried to destroy only the thing itself, it would take the whole ship down with it?


    Damn, I'm REALLY curious what it is. Hopefully, they won't keep it a secret for too long.

    ReplyDelete
  198. Greice MoreiraApril 7, 2015 at 10:20 PM

    That is a very good theory. But since Tony created Ultron, I don't think it's him, but whatever was in thar ship is likely related to the Avengers plot. I haven't thought about it :)

    ReplyDelete
  199. Beatriz MorenoApril 7, 2015 at 10:26 PM

    The fact is, Ward was too much of a coward to turn his back on Garret to help whom he supposedly considered his friends, and he was too much of a coward to kill them, so he flipped a coin instead. Ward is what I like to call "passively evil", which is worse in MANY ways, but the worst way would be that these people have the audacity to say "I did the right thing".

    ReplyDelete
  200. Beatriz MorenoApril 7, 2015 at 10:28 PM

    Ward didn't want to kill Fitz and Simmons, but he didn't want to save them either, if he did then he would have.

    ReplyDelete

NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.