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If they really want to allude to Birds of Prey. They would go with Katana. But with the actress being cast in a new pilot it might be hard, unless someone new plays Katana. And Dick Grayson is so not happening.
Ohh my pool was picked! *_* This pool came to my mind a while ago when I was discussing Laurel with someone here and he mentioned Rivhard Dragon. So I googled a bit and made a small list. My personal favorite would be Lady Shiva but mostly anyone besides Ollie and Nyssa works for me.
Okay I won't. I didn't even mean it just that way. She needs someone to connect and trust again. And think someone like DG would be a good choice. and some action on the bed side would be neat as well.
The only reason why I'm opposite Nyssa is cause Sara trained with the league and Nyssa probably worked with her as well. And we established L doesn't want/can't be like Sara.
That's a good point, but that's as a person and as a hero. As a fighter, it's not be a bad idea for Laurel to be a bit more like Sara. And if Laurel ends up changing/affecting Nyssa and showed her a life outside of the LoA, rather than Nyssa changing/affecting her like she did Sara, and bringing Sara into the LoA twice, that would be a cool way to show the difference between them.
He's obsessed with the character's "love" life. He gets wired asks and his answers just feed the craziness even if the question had nothing to do with romance. Last night someone asked him if they were going to explain why Felicity's number was on Tommy's phone. Care to guess what his answer was?
Valid point. Would love to see Nyssa in normal clothes for once, with watching Katarina in Spartacus and here I don't recall seeing her wear regular clothes. Maybe a combination of Nyssa bringing Laurel to her new master and visiting a couple of times could work.
I don't know. I can't tell if you're trying to tell me he feeds the crazy fan theories - aka, throws out the idea that Tommy and Felicity were carrying on a secret flirtation in the first season, which never came to anything because Tommy died - or if you're telling me he likes to talk about his characters' sex lives which he knows too much about - aka, Tommy and Felicity had a one night stand sometime in season one, which was in his head when he wrote the scene but it never made it into the show - or possibly both.
I feel bad saying this, but now that I know for sure someone is going to die, Roy is one of the better case scenarios for me. I don't want him to die so much, but better him than anyone else in that picture. Honestly, the one person I want to die is Malcolm, and that's almost certainly not going to happen, at least not at that point, and if not him ... I've gotten to the point where I've accepted someone is going to die, and Roy is one of the better available options. I suppose what I'm saying is I don't want to hope it's not him, because if it's not Roy (and it's not Malcolm), then it's probably somebody I like better. I mean, I wouldn't bet on it being Laurel, who I think has more story left in her than Roy does, and there are only so many other options.
That was why I thought the hero on the road thing might work. You know, traveling, helping out people where she can, running away from Daddy's assassins. Like Sara in early season two. I'd like to see Talia, though. They've never mentioned her, have they?
Agreed to all. I like these developing relationships for one, because now Arrow can pass the Bechdel test more reliably, and two, because they're showing a softer, nicer side of Laurel, possibly because she doesn't always feel like she's proving herself to Felicity or Nyssa. There's some of that with Laurel and Diggle too, but I don't think they're diving into that anytime soon; still, I enjoy what I'm getting. I've always wanted to like Laurel, and it's stuff like this that is finally giving me moments where I can. Also when she falls off of vans. That's good, too.
I decided long ago that it's better to err on the side of caution with actors, writers, authors ... anyone you like whose personality you don't really know outside of their work. Orson Scott Card was a big shock for me; in comparison, MG's not half bad. Kinda gross, but not crazy, homophobic and possibly racist.
OSC wrote Ender's Game. It was one of my favorite books growing up, and now that I know more about the author, it makes reading it a little sad, because the dude's severely unpleasant.
Basically, I don't want to know too much about MG because I might not like it and it might get into my head somewhat while watching Arrow.
I feel bad about it, but the pragmatic side of me has kicked in, or possibly the bargaining stage of grief. Take Roy, just leave me my Original Team Arrow (and Quentin). Sorry, Roy.
That is nice, and possibly a little spoiler-y - I need to go look up some Billy Joel. But see, you told me, and other people will post his other nice posts places, so there's no need for me to actually follow him. Yay.
Thanks. And I'm not sure it should matter, because the book hasn't changed, simply my perception of the person who wrote it; would be the same with the show, and it's not like I'm super thrilled with the show anyway at the moment. Still, give my options, I'd rather not know.
We aren't sacrificing him. The writers (potentially) are. We're just hoping for the best deal out a bad situation. It sounds better when we say it like that, and it's got the benefit of being true.
I'm a really curious person and I when I obsess with something it gets really hard to stop looking for every information there is about it, but the kind of trolling MG is doing in his Tumblr is awful. What's the point in writing compelling characters if you're going to make fun of the fans and their questions? Just terrible. I should stop following him as well.
Something similar happened to me. There was this author that I really LOVED and grew up reading his work. Then he published a dystopian novel that really disturbed me. So now I can't read his previous novels with the same passion.
I think a woman should train Laurel, don't really care who although if it's Nyssa a lot of people would complain about Laurel wanting to be Sara blablabla, so maybe a new character?
Sucks, right? A lot of people like to know so much about the lives and personalities of their favorite celebrities and whatnot. I think that it's often better not to know.
That being said, I follow the main trio's Twitters, so what do I know? Although I usually figure with actors, there's a better chance that most of what they're going to do is post Instagram pics, promote their shows/new projects and talk about what they're watching on TV right now, so usually they're safe. I may be justifying things to myself a little, though.
To be honest I can't really picture Tatsu training Laurel, I think they have very different styles so it's hard for me to imagine it, but I wouldn't be against it.
I really, REALLY, miss Ted Grant and what that dynamic could have been... But now it's Nyssa the one that makes the more sense.
I would love to watch Laurel go with Nyssa on 3x23 and see them training from 4x01 to 4x09(+the 5 months hiatus in between 3x23 and 4x01) to make her triumphant return in the mid-season finale.
I have voted for Nyssa and other. Nyssa because she is awesome, already available and has a connection with Laurel. Why introduce a new character when we have awesome Nyssa?
My send vote is other. Diggle could also be Laurel's trainer. Why not? In fact he should have taken her under the wing immediately after she decided to put on a mask and he accepted her. He could have guided her in the field by going with her and showing her how to anticipate threats. That would have been great for both characters.
I don't think keeping Laurel away from main action for half a season a good idea at all. If needed Nyssa should be in Starling continually training her.
I kind of hate Helena... hahaha... IDK, the actress is not that great, I don't understand her motivations and I think she's pretty irrational 95% of the time so I don't think it would be my first choice... But I wouldn't oppose. The thing is, I just don't want Laurel's training to be directly connected with her love life. I think Nyssa is the best option but people will bitch so much!
" the actress is not that great, I don't understand her motivations and I think she's pretty irrational 95% of the time" Do I need to explain why I quoted that line? Or how connected it is to my previous comment?
She made an appearance on the comics Arrow 2.5, so far her comics version is not annoying me that much. Maybe it'll make me change my mind about her. Maybe.
Right now Team Arrow's dynamic(as a whole) is a mess. If they went back to basics for a bit, they could do wonders to lay the ground for a new team dynamic: Felicity gets the info, Digg takes care of strategy and support via comms, Roy and Thea are Team B and Oliver and Laurel are Team A.
I just think they need to reset Team Arrow. Send Roy to jail, Laurel to Nanda Parbat and start over. More organized this time...
Yes it's a mess right now. I think with a time jump between season 3 and season 4 I think they can overcome these issues and in season 4 they can show us a much more cohesive team Arrow with people alternating on missions. Or as you said they can have multiple crimes per episode and different team ups which need not be permenant as team A team B can go out and face criminals. Keeping Laurel away for half a season will still cause the show to adjust it's dynamics once again after Laurel comes back. I would rather they start season 4 with a good working relationship.
What I am apprehensive of season 4 is what role would Diggle play? I don't see him going out on regular missions. Then what can he do in the lair. Arrow is not a show which requires much recon otherwise Diggle could have gone out and gathered intel.
I think in the next outing we will like her more now that daddy dearest is dead and she is somewhat okay with it. I guess there will be a lot of snark from her towards Oliver. It will be fun to watch if done right.
Digg could do comms but haven't the show went out of way to say that he can't do what Felicity does like hacking the nearby camera and buildings blue prints and other Felicity magical stuff while they are on mission.
IMO the best thing to do for Diggle is let him and Lyla take over ARGUS and SS, make him a recurring character. Bring him in all the episodes HIVE is a major player. Also as I said above in another comment give him 6 to 8 episode long midseason SS show where he is the lead.
You're not the only one. People are saying that season 3 is the fans' crucible and we will grew stronger after it. I should start thinking of my mask design haha
Is the show that bad for you? Yes Malcolm story line was a bit frustrating but now that Thea and Laurel knew the secret it has become better for me. I actually really liked last episode. I thought I would dislike Oliver's reasons to go to Nanda Parbat. But I kind of like Thea's soul and Oliver's ego as reasons. Thea's soul because she herself felt guilty she is turning in to a ruthless killer. Oliver's ego because its so in character guy is an egotistic jerk most of the time.That's why he likes to bully and order people around. He thinks he is invincible.
Lately, every time i'm watching this show i'm screaming at the TV "It better be worth it!" I can't wait 'till this season is over and I can see the whole picture and evaluate if it was. I'm terrified of what they're doing since 3x10 and after those dreadful tweets Haynes and Amell posted I'm preparing for the worst. I've had such high expectations for this season but everything it's blowing up in my face.
I don't hate the fact that he went to Nanda Parbat, in fact that was the most cohesive thing he did regarding Malcolm Merlyn, as you said, the ego factor made a lot of sense. I think my dissatisfaction with the show it's more related to my own expectations than anything else. I always loved watching Arrow and I was not only able to understand their motivations but also enjoyed the decisions they made (except from episode 2x14, I like to pretend that never happened), but after 3x10 I can only understand some of the reasons and cringe at most of the decisions they make. I don't like the Team dynamics at all, they are not being able to talk anything through and they are always yelling at each other. I don't like how Raylicity was executed, I don't mind they having a relationship, but it was so badly constructed and rushed. I don't like that Laurel doesn't have a trainer and barely any support, I know that was mostly because the actor who played Ted was not available anymore, but still, she should have someone by her side. Also I'm terrified of who will die, especially because I think the producers are more worried about shocking the viewers than to make relevant and well constructed plot twists. So even if it's still my favorite show I hope it gets better.
It doesn't mean one is better than the other... I just put letters to differenciate them. Roy and Thea and Oliver and Laurel... Wasn't saying she is better than the others...
No JR Ramirez was promoted to a regular on the show Power. The news broke after they released the info that he was cast as Ted Grant. As it is that show season was only 10 episodes long. I think around this time he should be free to make an appearance on Arrow.
Till Nanda Parbat aired I had lot of issues with this season. Even now I have a lot of complaints but I have somehow come to accept what they want to achieve this season.
This is a very transitional season and team Arrow is evolving into something new. This change started from Heir to the demon and Tremors in season 2 when Sara and Roy joined the team to now where Laurel is kind of a member and Thea is one step closer to be a member of Team Arrow. The show will never go back to the dynamic we used to love the most in last seasons that is from ep 1x14 to ep. 2x14. I am sure come season 4 this new team Arrow will work well too but with different character interactions than what we used to get. But until we get there and everyone is integrated things will be messy. That is also because the show runners did not pace themselves in making characters into heroes and rushed into it. It's like they want to get the process of the transition period for this characters over and done with so that they can tell heroes kicking villains story. It's lazy writing at best but with 3x15 happening I can see things working out.
I agree from 3x10 to 3x13 they could have done things a lot differently and the scripts could have been lot tighter. So what Ted Grant is not available you have John Diggle bad ass there sitting doing nothing. Use him to train and direct Laurel. Oliver's decision after coming back from death is questionable but I guess that is what show is trying to say to us that he is making wrong decisions in his desperation and fear and everyone of TA is not accepting of it. Eventually he will be proven wrong imo.
Regarding Raylicity they made a mistake with the characterization of Ray in first half of season 3. He was some times charismatic and sometimes creepy. I just try to see what the show was trying to portray (and as Natasha says in AoU promo "they amazingly failed"). I could see them course correcting themselves regarding Ray after the mid season hiatus. As much as I hated 3x07 and their kiss I liked the progression they got from ep 3x10 to 3x15. It made sense with the way Oliver and Ray is behaving towards Felicity.
The death thing is a bit worrying as it is becoming a pattern for the show. But we don't know if LP is in the picture or a character departure is in the picture. So until then STOP PANICKING (as you can see I am very cool very very cool)
On the whole I hated ep. 3x07 this season and have a love hate relationship between ep. 3x11 to 3x13. But with Ep. 14 and 15 bursting open all secrets and opening new avenues I am excited for coming episodes and I have some expectations.
I'm not sure I acre who trains her honestly... As long as someone does in fact train her and preferably outside of Starling City so Laurel is gone for more than a few episodes.
Although depending on how the looming Episode 3x19 plays out I may change my opinion of her needing to be absent for a while.
Nyssa seems like the best option to me right now since she is an existing character and most of the other plausible options involve introducing yet another hero onto the series that has a hard time writing for the number of heroes they already have on the series.
LOL Merlyn didn't make the list. That though made me laugh hard.
I liked the first dude (they killed him off didn't they?) I think a man would be best, but honestly I don't think its important. Don't want to see her training on air though I will be happy when she gets to a point where she doesn't looks so out classed by street thugs.
Seriously! I will be happy when Laurel wouldn't seem outclassed by the average junior high school bully, much less a low level street thug! XD
I was initially somewhat excited by the idea of Ted Grant/ Wildcat training Laurel honestly... However, after seeing how it played out I think he was a waste of time and a highly underutilized character. He just seemed like such a low-rent vigilante hero in the end.
I was surprised they didn't even hint at that even after he showed support for her, even to Oliver, it would've been a great way to give Dig something to do.
Sendind Laurel away will only harm her character more because all the haters will rejoice and then hate her even more for coming back. Like you said, TA is a mess, a huge mess, but taking Laurel away won't fix that, it's the writers that don't know how to handle them, and they will still not know how to do it without her. If something people need to understand that no matter what TPTB say, we're never going back to just Ollie, Dig and Felicity, and if all the flux of maskes hasn't clued them in, I don't know what will. All we can do is hope they stop bringing in new people so they can focus on what they already have and find some much needed balance.
The best would be Shiva. Considering she can predict an opponent's moves before they make them, and can take everyone on this list (and even is better than Batman in a fight), but the one most likely and I want to see is Nyssa.
You know it's kinda f*cked up that everyone here is trying to appease the writers by offering Roy as s sacrifice (though I really doubt he's dying- he's Roy Harper and besides Oliver or Laurel he has the most comic storyline adaption potential). I'm thinking it's Quentin. If it is, it sucks though. As long as Joe West lives I'm happy though.
I wasn't speaking literally, more metaphorically as though everyone's just basically saying take Roy, take Roy out of fear of everyone else. As though it will feed the writers' thirst for character blood to be spilled.
First of all they already shot the episode so there's nothing we can say/do to change who is going to die. We are trying to imagine the best case scenario in a horrible terrible situation. I'll say it again. I DON'T want Roy to die but IF I have to choose one character from the people who were on David's photo then I choose Roy because while I love him and I don't want him to die, I love the other 3 more.
Look Koky it was a bad joke. I wasn't trying to say anyone wanted him to die, it was just some poorly planned good natured ribbing. Like how people make jokes about George R R Martin's tendency to kill characters and fans often expressing a desire for it not to happen.
Who should be Laurel's trainer? Nyssa. I'm pleased to see Arrow doing this too because it just makes sense. Ted Grant taught Laurel how to become a brawler, and even in Grell's run, Black Canary was a straight-up brawler, but BC CAN be more and Nyssa is perfect in training her to become more. They could share memories or Sara and possibly become an item themselves even.
After Nyssa, though, I wouldn't mind Ollie finally realizing that he could help train Laurel as well. I want to see Ollie, Laurel and Roy all training together before the series ends.
So, my essay is ready lol.I'm okay with Laurel and Thea being part of the Team, but I'm not okay with them being on the Team and not respecting it's leader. Oliver is being stupid and yeah, I agree with you that his bad decisions are going to blow up in his face, but I don't like Thea and Laurel doing whatever they feel like and being reckless (wow, I sounded exactly like Oliver) and putting themselves and others at risk. Felicity, Diggle and Roy are not crazy about Oliver accepting Malcolm's help but they are not interfering. I'm not saying that Laurel shouldn't be pissed at Oliver or that Thea shouldn't be hurt at Malcolm, but as long as they are in Oliver's lair they should be able to accept his leadership. And in case you hadn't noticed I don't buy this whole "you were dead, so the mission is ours now" bullshit, they defeated ONE bad dude and only after Oliver came back from the dead, so they totally need his leadership. That's why I think Laurel should go independently from Oliver, so she can do whatever the hell she wants without us having to watch they fighting over his decisions every single episode. And that's my issue with the Team right now. About Raylicity, Ray is terrible but I'm with you when you say that you're trying to work with what the show wants to portray, so I try not to see him as a creep, only a bit eccentric, but I think the relationship needed to be better developed, she probably got together with him because Oliver was going to suicide mission part 2, but the scene between her and Ray in 3x15 was basically Felicity drooling after his abs and in bed with him. Seriously? It felt forced, it could've been done a lot better, just like the dinner scene in 3x07 where she does that big speech about him being such a good person. Why would she say that after the stunts he pulled to buy QC and make her work for him? They never showed us why she would think that and it bothers me. About the death I'm worried they'll kill someone for shock value. Like Felicity, or Diggle or Roy. I want everyone to live! I don't want to Lazarus Pit anyone. I'm freaking out because every interview all the producers say is "this season is insane", "killing Oliver is the least shocking thing" so I'm not keeping my chill on this one.
Having to come back to this poll, I think Richard Dragon needs to show up and for a specific reason:
in the comics, he trained Bronze Tiger and if he died in 'Arrow season 2.5', then I'd love to see Dragon show up to Starling City to find out what happened to his student.
They could have easily incorporated Diggle in those 3 episodes by making him a champion and trainer for Laurel. I wonder why they didn't think of that immediately after learning they can't use Ted Grant the way they want. He could have easily gone out with him and taught her discipline and how to scout for threats. Diggle would make a great mentor for someone someday.
I'm not saying he deserves to die in any way. I'd rather he not. But most of what Roy does, in my opinion, is Diggle's old job, and sort hang at the periphery of the Thea/Malcolm part of the story. Could they find more things to do with him? Sure. But I know where Laurel's story is going - she's basically doing her origin story, figuring out what kind of hero she's going to be, how she's going to be one, is she part of Team Arrow or sort of like an independent contractor? Call her in for certain missions, but otherwise BC and TA are doing their own thing. Felicity is the only tech help, and beyond that she has whatever they're planning to do with her father. Diggle hasn't had much to do either, but he has the potential for more with the HIVE story, and if Roy dies and they go with the independent BC thing, he'll definitely be in the field more.
There's more stuff that Roy can do, but it's easier for me to see the possibilities in other characters than in him. I can also see the purpose his death serves - Oliver loses a protege, Thea gets motivated to get her own mask, Diggle gets field time - where I'm not sure who else they can kill that would make that much sense, except Quentin, who isn't supposed to be in this episode, right? That's just how I see it, though.
Hahaha that's okay, I like discussing those things, don't worry about it! It's not that I think that their actions aren't understandable, it's just a lot of unnecessary conflict! Laurel is butting heads with Oliver since 3x02! There's no doubt that every time Felicity interacts romantically with Ray is always about Oliver. She decided to work for Ray after hers and Oliver's discussion in 3x02, she kissed him after Oliver's speech to Cupid in 3x07, she slept with him after Oliver went to Nanda Parbat to probably die again... but the way her scenes with Ray are constructed cheapens things, like you said, the necklace and the dress before the date, the art works, the muscles... it's just so very superficial and foolish. Isn't she a VP to a huge company? She should be able to afford crazy expensive dresses on her on. And someone please tell Marc that after he introduced us to Stephen Freaking Amell doing all those exercises on season 1 there's no way we're going to be impressed by Brandon Routh. There's no choice to make!
Oliver reprimanding Laurel and Laurel bicker back is the way for the show to establish Laurel is a strong character. Sometimes I wonder these two actors have issues with each other because they are a little too good at bickering. When Laurel fights with her father or disagrees with Diggle and Roy it never has the ugly feel to Oliver/Laurel scenes.
Exactly. They cheapenes Felicity who didn't bat an eye lash at the oppulent parties and Queen mansion last year by making her drool on costumes, jewellery and paintings. These scenes glares out on the screen and Felicity looks OOC. In the end Ray Palmer is the biggest plot device used by Arrow ever. If they had used this method for Sara and BC storyline last season people would not have been this upset when she died.
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
I´m voting for Nyssa!!
ReplyDeleteI really like Arrow but tbh sometimes IMO arrow is way too overhyped.
ReplyDeleteI think Arrow should train laurel
Nyssa!
ReplyDeleteIf they really want to allude to Birds of Prey. They would go with Katana. But with the actress being cast in a new pilot it might be hard, unless someone new plays Katana. And Dick Grayson is so not happening.
ReplyDeleteOhh my pool was picked! *_*
ReplyDeleteThis pool came to my mind a while ago when I was discussing Laurel with someone here and he mentioned Rivhard Dragon.
So I googled a bit and made a small list. My personal favorite would be Lady Shiva but mostly anyone besides Ollie and Nyssa works for me.
Nyssa !!
ReplyDeleteDick G was just and silly idea for Laurel to get laid. She needs it. ^_^
ReplyDeleteCongrats
ReplyDeletePlease dont say stuff like that. I have enough with MG saying stuff like that.
ReplyDeleteRight? His posts are becoming very disturbing.
ReplyDeleteAnyone but Oliver. I'm sick of their bickering and if he trained her it would be 10 times worse. Nyssa could be fun.
ReplyDeleteNyssa and Laurel's dynamic is fun to watch. I'm against Oliver being her trainer because she needs someone that respects her, and he does not
ReplyDeleteBut I miss Ted :(
Okay I won't. I didn't even mean it just that way. She needs someone to connect and trust again. And think someone like DG would be a good choice. and some action on the bed side would be neat as well.
ReplyDeleteThanks! Very proud today! ;-) ^_^
ReplyDeleteThe only reason why I'm opposite Nyssa is cause Sara trained with the league and Nyssa probably worked with her as well. And we established L doesn't want/can't be like Sara.
ReplyDeleteI don't follow him. I almost don't want to know, but ... what's disturbing?
ReplyDeleteBut we would get more Nyssa!
ReplyDeleteThat's a good point, but that's as a person and as a hero. As a fighter, it's not be a bad idea for Laurel to be a bit more like Sara. And if Laurel ends up changing/affecting Nyssa and showed her a life outside of the LoA, rather than Nyssa changing/affecting her like she did Sara, and bringing Sara into the LoA twice, that would be a cool way to show the difference between them.
ReplyDeleteHe's obsessed with the character's "love" life. He gets wired asks and his answers just feed the craziness even if the question had nothing to do with romance. Last night someone asked him if they were going to explain why Felicity's number was on Tommy's phone. Care to guess what his answer was?
ReplyDeleteValid point.
ReplyDeleteWould love to see Nyssa in normal clothes for once, with watching Katarina in Spartacus and here I don't recall seeing her wear regular clothes. Maybe a combination of Nyssa bringing Laurel to her new master and visiting a couple of times could work.
She did in episode 4. Remember when Lance said "didn't recognize you without your Halloween custome".
ReplyDeleteOhhh yeah! Can't wait for the season to end so I'll rewatch the whole thing in less than 48 hours.
ReplyDeleteI hope it makes sense in the end because right now rewatching the episodes makes me MAD.
ReplyDeleteI don't know. I can't tell if you're trying to tell me he feeds the crazy fan theories - aka, throws out the idea that Tommy and Felicity were carrying on a secret flirtation in the first season, which never came to anything because Tommy died - or if you're telling me he likes to talk about his characters' sex lives which he knows too much about - aka, Tommy and Felicity had a one night stand sometime in season one, which was in his head when he wrote the scene but it never made it into the show - or possibly both.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that made me nervous. But I think until the episode happens/someone sneaks set pictures, everything's going to make me nervous.
ReplyDeleteTold you it's disturbing. Wise decision. I should do the same.
ReplyDeleteI feel bad saying this, but now that I know for sure someone is going to die, Roy is one of the better case scenarios for me. I don't want him to die so much, but better him than anyone else in that picture. Honestly, the one person I want to die is Malcolm, and that's almost certainly not going to happen, at least not at that point, and if not him ... I've gotten to the point where I've accepted someone is going to die, and Roy is one of the better available options. I suppose what I'm saying is I don't want to hope it's not him, because if it's not Roy (and it's not Malcolm), then it's probably somebody I like better. I mean, I wouldn't bet on it being Laurel, who I think has more story left in her than Roy does, and there are only so many other options.
ReplyDeleteThat was why I thought the hero on the road thing might work. You know, traveling, helping out people where she can, running away from Daddy's assassins. Like Sara in early season two. I'd like to see Talia, though. They've never mentioned her, have they?
ReplyDeleteAgreed to all. I like these developing relationships for one, because now Arrow can pass the Bechdel test more reliably, and two, because they're showing a softer, nicer side of Laurel, possibly because she doesn't always feel like she's proving herself to Felicity or Nyssa. There's some of that with Laurel and Diggle too, but I don't think they're diving into that anytime soon; still, I enjoy what I'm getting. I've always wanted to like Laurel, and it's stuff like this that is finally giving me moments where I can. Also when she falls off of vans. That's good, too.
They never mentioned Talia but they never said that Nyssa was an only child neither.
ReplyDeleteThere are some good posts though. Someone asked him to associate a song to each of the coming episodes.
ReplyDelete"Well, it would have to be Billy Joel songs…
3x17 — A Matter of Trust
3x18 — An Innocent Man
3x19 — Surprises
3x20 — No Man’s Land
3x21 — The Stranger"
I decided long ago that it's better to err on the side of caution with actors, writers, authors ... anyone you like whose personality you don't really know outside of their work. Orson Scott Card was a big shock for me; in comparison, MG's not half bad. Kinda gross, but not crazy, homophobic and possibly racist.
ReplyDelete...........
ReplyDeleteOSC wrote Ender's Game. It was one of my favorite books growing up, and now that I know more about the author, it makes reading it a little sad, because the dude's severely unpleasant.
ReplyDeleteBasically, I don't want to know too much about MG because I might not like it and it might get into my head somewhat while watching Arrow.
I feel bad about it, but the pragmatic side of me has kicked in, or possibly the bargaining stage of grief. Take Roy, just leave me my Original Team Arrow (and Quentin). Sorry, Roy.
ReplyDeleteThat is nice, and possibly a little spoiler-y - I need to go look up some Billy Joel. But see, you told me, and other people will post his other nice posts places, so there's no need for me to actually follow him. Yay.
ReplyDeleteThat's too bad, I'm sorry.
ReplyDeleteThat's very good thinking.
I think we reached the bargaining stage. I'm willing to give up anything to keep OTA and Quentin. But I feel so guilty for sacrificing Roy.
ReplyDeleteThanks. And I'm not sure it should matter, because the book hasn't changed, simply my perception of the person who wrote it; would be the same with the show, and it's not like I'm super thrilled with the show anyway at the moment. Still, give my options, I'd rather not know.
ReplyDeleteI already unfollwed him. Everyone reblogs the important posts anyway so I don't really need to follow him.
ReplyDeleteWe aren't sacrificing him. The writers (potentially) are. We're just hoping for the best deal out a bad situation. It sounds better when we say it like that, and it's got the benefit of being true.
ReplyDeleteI'm a really curious person and I when I obsess with something it gets really hard to stop looking for every information there is about it, but the kind of trolling MG is doing in his Tumblr is awful. What's the point in writing compelling characters if you're going to make fun of the fans and their questions? Just terrible. I should stop following him as well.
ReplyDeleteSomething similar happened to me. There was this author that I really LOVED and grew up reading his work. Then he published a dystopian novel that really disturbed me. So now I can't read his previous novels with the same passion.
ReplyDeleteI unfollowed him.
ReplyDeleteI like this version. I'm going with it.
ReplyDeleteI started a thing.
ReplyDeleteYeah hahahaha
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between being sarcastic and being disrespectful.
I think a woman should train Laurel, don't really care who although if it's Nyssa a lot of people would complain about Laurel wanting to be Sara blablabla, so maybe a new character?
ReplyDeleteTatsu?
ReplyDeleteThat's what I thought. So that's an opening for Talia to make some sort of dramatic entrance at some point in the series.
ReplyDeleteSucks, right? A lot of people like to know so much about the lives and personalities of their favorite celebrities and whatnot. I think that it's often better not to know.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I follow the main trio's Twitters, so what do I know? Although I usually figure with actors, there's a better chance that most of what they're going to do is post Instagram pics, promote their shows/new projects and talk about what they're watching on TV right now, so usually they're safe. I may be justifying things to myself a little, though.
To be honest I can't really picture Tatsu training Laurel, I think they have very different styles so it's hard for me to imagine it, but I wouldn't be against it.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Helena? I always expected the show to go there ever since the BoP episode.
ReplyDeleteIf I knew something I don't like about an actor/writer of a favourite show I pretend it never happened. Denial is my bestfriend sometimes lol
ReplyDeleteI really, REALLY, miss Ted Grant and what that dynamic could have been... But now it's Nyssa the one that makes the more sense.
ReplyDeleteI would love to watch Laurel go with Nyssa on 3x23 and see them training from 4x01 to 4x09(+the 5 months hiatus in between 3x23 and 4x01) to make her triumphant return in the mid-season finale.
I have voted for Nyssa and other. Nyssa because she is awesome, already available and has a connection with Laurel. Why introduce a new character when we have awesome Nyssa?
ReplyDeleteMy send vote is other. Diggle could also be Laurel's trainer. Why not? In fact he should have taken her under the wing immediately after she decided to put on a mask and he accepted her. He could have guided her in the field by going with her and showing her how to anticipate threats. That would have been great for both characters.
I don't think keeping Laurel away from main action for half a season a good idea at all. If needed Nyssa should be in Starling continually training her.
ReplyDeleteNyssa
ReplyDeleteI kind of hate Helena... hahaha... IDK, the actress is not that great, I don't understand her motivations and I think she's pretty irrational 95% of the time so I don't think it would be my first choice... But I wouldn't oppose.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, I just don't want Laurel's training to be directly connected with her love life. I think Nyssa is the best option but people will bitch so much!
Helena is being used by ARGUS now like SS. She is not getting out soon.
ReplyDelete" the actress is not that great, I don't understand her motivations and I think she's pretty irrational 95% of the time" Do I need to explain why I quoted that line? Or how connected it is to my previous comment?
ReplyDeleteIf Dig/Lyla took over ARGUS things could change. Lyla already let her out once to help the team.
ReplyDeleteShe made an appearance on the comics Arrow 2.5, so far her comics version is not annoying me that much. Maybe it'll make me change my mind about her. Maybe.
ReplyDeleteRight now Team Arrow's dynamic(as a whole) is a mess. If they went back to basics for a bit, they could do wonders to lay the ground for a new team dynamic: Felicity gets the info, Digg takes care of strategy and support via comms, Roy and Thea are Team B and Oliver and Laurel are Team A.
ReplyDeleteI just think they need to reset Team Arrow. Send Roy to jail, Laurel to Nanda Parbat and start over. More organized this time...
Laurel Team A? Ok.
ReplyDeleteWhere do I start????
ReplyDeleteDig handling the comms? Laurel team A?? Send Roy to jail???
HAHAHA no, I got it, let's not verbalize or this thread will become a war zone. =)
ReplyDeleteAlrighty then...
ReplyDeleteYes it's a mess right now. I think with a time jump between season 3 and season 4 I think they can overcome these issues and in season 4 they can show us a much more cohesive team Arrow with people alternating on missions. Or as you said they can have multiple crimes per episode and different team ups which need not be permenant as team A team B can go out and face criminals. Keeping Laurel away for half a season will still cause the show to adjust it's dynamics once again after Laurel comes back. I would rather they start season 4 with a good working relationship.
ReplyDeleteWhat I am apprehensive of season 4 is what role would Diggle play? I don't see him going out on regular missions. Then what can he do in the lair. Arrow is not a show which requires much recon otherwise Diggle could have gone out and gathered intel.
No one, she is not a Black Canary
ReplyDeleteI think in the next outing we will like her more now that daddy dearest is dead and she is somewhat okay with it. I guess there will be a lot of snark from her towards Oliver. It will be fun to watch if done right.
ReplyDeleteAlso in Heir to the demon in season 2 airport scene. Loved her tophat in that one.
ReplyDeleteI'm having more fun reading the comics than watching the episodes lately, so it's going to be entertaining without a doubt.
ReplyDeleteDigg could do comms but haven't the show went out of way to say that he can't do what Felicity does like hacking the nearby camera and buildings blue prints and other Felicity magical stuff while they are on mission.
ReplyDeleteIMO the best thing to do for Diggle is let him and Lyla take over ARGUS and SS, make him a recurring character. Bring him in all the episodes HIVE is a major player. Also as I said above in another comment give him 6 to 8 episode long midseason SS show where he is the lead.
That's not bad but if next season deals with HIVE then he would have A LOT to do.
ReplyDeleteHe can go undercover in HIVE to get info. That could be a good side story like Oliver's flashbacks.
ReplyDeleteYou're not the only one. People are saying that season 3 is the fans' crucible and we will grew stronger after it. I should start thinking of my mask design haha
ReplyDeleteIs the show that bad for you? Yes Malcolm story line was a bit frustrating but now that Thea and Laurel knew the secret it has become better for me. I actually really liked last episode. I thought I would dislike Oliver's reasons to go to Nanda Parbat. But I kind of like Thea's soul and Oliver's ego as reasons. Thea's soul because she herself felt guilty she is turning in to a ruthless killer. Oliver's ego because its so in character guy is an egotistic jerk most of the time.That's why he likes to bully and order people around. He thinks he is invincible.
ReplyDeleteLately, every time i'm watching this show i'm screaming at the TV "It better be worth it!"
ReplyDeleteI can't wait 'till this season is over and I can see the whole picture and evaluate if it was. I'm terrified of what they're doing since 3x10 and after those dreadful tweets Haynes and Amell posted I'm preparing for the worst. I've had such high expectations for this season but everything it's blowing up in my face.
She will be.
ReplyDeleteIs Ted Grant dead?
ReplyDeleteNo but the actor got a leading role in another series.
ReplyDeleteAh, I see.
ReplyDeletedidnt he became a regular on a cable show?
ReplyDeleteThat was Collin.
ReplyDeleteThis is spoilery so beware.
ReplyDeleteI don't hate the fact that he went to Nanda Parbat, in fact that was the most cohesive thing he did regarding Malcolm Merlyn, as you said, the ego factor made a lot of sense.
I think my dissatisfaction with the show it's more related to my own expectations than anything else. I always loved watching Arrow and I was not only able to understand their motivations but also enjoyed the decisions they made (except from episode 2x14, I like to pretend that never happened), but after 3x10 I can only understand some of the reasons and cringe at most of the decisions they make. I don't like the Team dynamics at all, they are not being able to talk anything through and they are always yelling at each other. I don't like how Raylicity was executed, I don't mind they having a relationship, but it was so badly constructed and rushed. I don't like that Laurel doesn't have a trainer and barely any support, I know that was mostly because the actor who played Ted was not available anymore, but still, she should have someone by her side. Also I'm terrified of who will die, especially because I think the producers are more worried about shocking the viewers than to make relevant and well constructed plot twists.
So even if it's still my favorite show I hope it gets better.
It doesn't mean one is better than the other... I just put letters to differenciate them. Roy and Thea and Oliver and Laurel... Wasn't saying she is better than the others...
ReplyDeleteDon't get touchy...
I have to ask. Where is the spoilery part?
ReplyDeleteNot for you guys, but for someone who didn't watch the entire season or didn't know someone is going to die etc...
ReplyDeleteVoted Nyssa & Richard Dragon (since I'm probably one of the few who know who he is)
ReplyDeleteArrow, no way. She needs different trainers so she can surpass him and kick his ass one day.
Then they are in the WRONG site lol
ReplyDeleteWhy wouldnt you want the Queen siblings as team A. And the buckly duo as team B. I mean there was talk about Arsenal/Canary team this season.
ReplyDeleteIKR? But I've seen many people complaining and since I don't want to pick a fight today (or any other day) I'm just going to be cautious.
ReplyDelete"the buckly duo" nice one hahahaha
ReplyDeleteNo JR Ramirez was promoted to a regular on the show Power. The news broke after they released the info that he was cast as Ted Grant. As it is that show season was only 10 episodes long. I think around this time he should be free to make an appearance on Arrow.
ReplyDeleteHe recently got a leading role in a series on NBC I think.
ReplyDeletedid you read infinite crisis yet or did you deicide against it
ReplyDeleteI didn't really have the time yet but I'm going to.
ReplyDeleteOliver for a brief moment was almost face to face with doomsday in that book
ReplyDeleteCool. But don't spoil it.
ReplyDeleteI almost wrote an essay. Feel free to ignore it.
ReplyDeleteTill Nanda Parbat aired I had lot of issues with this season. Even now I have a lot of complaints but I have somehow come to accept what they want to achieve this season.
This is a very transitional season and team Arrow is evolving into something new. This change started from Heir to the demon and Tremors in season 2 when Sara and Roy joined the team to now where Laurel is kind of a member and Thea is one step closer to be a member of Team Arrow. The show will never go back to the dynamic we used to love the most in last seasons that is from ep 1x14 to ep. 2x14. I am sure come season 4 this new team Arrow will work well too but with different character interactions than what we used to get. But until we get there and everyone is integrated things will be messy. That is also because the show runners did not pace themselves in making characters into heroes and rushed into it. It's like they want to get the process of the transition period for this characters over and done with so that they can tell heroes kicking villains story. It's lazy writing at best but with 3x15 happening I can see things working out.
I agree from 3x10 to 3x13 they could have done things a lot differently and the scripts could have been lot tighter. So what Ted Grant is not available you have John Diggle bad ass there sitting doing nothing. Use him to train and direct Laurel. Oliver's decision after coming back from death is questionable but I guess that is what show is trying to say to us that he is making wrong decisions in his desperation and fear and everyone of TA is not accepting of it. Eventually he will be proven wrong imo.
Regarding Raylicity they made a mistake with the characterization of Ray in first half of season 3. He was some times charismatic and sometimes creepy. I just try to see what the show was trying to portray (and as Natasha says in AoU promo "they amazingly failed"). I could see them course correcting themselves regarding Ray after the mid season hiatus. As much as I hated 3x07 and their kiss I liked the progression they got from ep 3x10 to 3x15. It made sense with the way Oliver and Ray is behaving towards Felicity.
The death thing is a bit worrying as it is becoming a pattern for the show. But we don't know if LP is in the picture or a character departure is in the picture. So until then STOP PANICKING (as you can see I am very cool very very cool)
On the whole I hated ep. 3x07 this season and have a love hate relationship between ep. 3x11 to 3x13. But with Ep. 14 and 15 bursting open all secrets and opening new avenues I am excited for coming episodes and I have some expectations.
I'm not sure I acre who trains her honestly...
ReplyDeleteAs long as someone does in fact train her and preferably outside of Starling City so Laurel is gone for more than a few episodes.
Although depending on how the looming Episode 3x19 plays out I may change my opinion of her needing to be absent for a while.
Nyssa seems like the best option to me right now since she is an existing character and most of the other plausible options involve introducing yet another hero onto the series that has a hard time writing for the number of heroes they already have on the series.
LOL Merlyn didn't make the list. That though made me laugh hard.
ReplyDeleteI liked the first dude (they killed him off didn't they?) I think a man would be best, but honestly I don't think its important. Don't want to see her training on air though I will be happy when she gets to a point where she doesn't looks so out classed by street thugs.
Seriously!
ReplyDeleteI will be happy when Laurel wouldn't seem outclassed by the average junior high school bully, much less a low level street thug! XD
I was initially somewhat excited by the idea of Ted Grant/ Wildcat training Laurel honestly... However, after seeing how it played out I think he was a waste of time and a highly underutilized character. He just seemed like such a low-rent vigilante hero in the end.
there's batman vs. deathstroke in that book too
ReplyDeleteSTOP!
ReplyDeletesorry
ReplyDeleteArrow.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised they didn't even hint at that even after he showed support for her, even to Oliver, it would've been a great way to give Dig something to do.
ReplyDeleteSendind Laurel away will only harm her character more because all the haters will rejoice and then hate her even more for coming back. Like you said, TA is a mess, a huge mess, but taking Laurel away won't fix that, it's the writers that don't know how to handle them, and they will still not know how to do it without her. If something people need to understand that no matter what TPTB say, we're never going back to just Ollie, Dig and Felicity, and if all the flux of maskes hasn't clued them in, I don't know what will. All we can do is hope they stop bringing in new people so they can focus on what they already have and find some much needed balance.
ReplyDeleteThe best would be Shiva. Considering she can predict an opponent's moves before they make them, and can take everyone on this list (and even is better than Batman in a fight), but the one most likely and I want to see is Nyssa.
ReplyDeleteNyssa.Basically anyone except Oliver.
ReplyDeleteSurprised Shiva's here.
ReplyDeleteThey wanted to use him more but couldn't because he was cast as a regular on another show. But it's true compared to his comic self he's kinda weak.
ReplyDeleteYou know it's kinda f*cked up that everyone here is trying to appease the writers by offering Roy as s sacrifice (though I really doubt he's dying- he's Roy Harper and besides Oliver or Laurel he has the most comic storyline adaption potential). I'm thinking it's Quentin. If it is, it sucks though. As long as Joe West lives I'm happy though.
ReplyDeleteTrolling.
ReplyDeleteHow exactly are we trying to appease the writers?
ReplyDeleteI heard Colin Donnell got a leading role in a pilot on NBC called ‘Love Is A 4 Letter Word & Rila Fukushima was cast in Warrior also on NBC.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't speaking literally, more metaphorically as though everyone's just basically saying take Roy, take Roy out of fear of everyone else. As though it will feed the writers' thirst for character blood to be spilled.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all they already shot the episode so there's nothing we can say/do to change who is going to die. We are trying to imagine the best case scenario in a horrible terrible situation.
ReplyDeleteI'll say it again. I DON'T want Roy to die but IF I have to choose one character from the people who were on David's photo then I choose Roy because while I love him and I don't want him to die, I love the other 3 more.
Look Koky it was a bad joke. I wasn't trying to say anyone wanted him to die, it was just some poorly planned good natured ribbing. Like how people make jokes about George R R Martin's tendency to kill characters and fans often expressing a desire for it not to happen.
ReplyDeleteOK
ReplyDeleteWho should be Laurel's trainer? Nyssa. I'm pleased to see Arrow doing this too because it just makes sense. Ted Grant taught Laurel how to become a brawler, and even in Grell's run, Black Canary was a straight-up brawler, but BC CAN be more and Nyssa is perfect in training her to become more. They could share memories or Sara and possibly become an item themselves even.
ReplyDeleteAfter Nyssa, though, I wouldn't mind Ollie finally realizing that he could help train Laurel as well. I want to see Ollie, Laurel and Roy all training together before the series ends.
So, my essay is ready lol.I'm okay with Laurel and Thea being part of the Team, but I'm not okay with them being on the Team and not respecting it's leader. Oliver is being stupid and yeah, I agree with you that his bad decisions are going to blow up in his face, but I don't like Thea and Laurel doing whatever they feel like and being reckless (wow, I sounded exactly like Oliver) and putting themselves and others at risk. Felicity, Diggle and Roy are not crazy about Oliver accepting Malcolm's help but they are not interfering. I'm not saying that Laurel shouldn't be pissed at Oliver or that Thea shouldn't be hurt at Malcolm, but as long as they are in Oliver's lair they should be able to accept his leadership. And in case you hadn't noticed I don't buy this whole "you were dead, so the mission is ours now" bullshit, they defeated ONE bad dude and only after Oliver came back from the dead, so they totally need his leadership. That's why I think Laurel should go independently from Oliver, so she can do whatever the hell she wants without us having to watch they fighting over his decisions every single episode. And that's my issue with the Team right now.
ReplyDeleteAbout Raylicity, Ray is terrible but I'm with you when you say that you're trying to work with what the show wants to portray, so I try not to see him as a creep, only a bit eccentric, but I think the relationship needed to be better developed, she probably got together with him because Oliver was going to suicide mission part 2, but the scene between her and Ray in 3x15 was basically Felicity drooling after his abs and in bed with him. Seriously? It felt forced, it could've been done a lot better, just like the dinner scene in 3x07 where she does that big speech about him being such a good person. Why would she say that after the stunts he pulled to buy QC and make her work for him? They never showed us why she would think that and it bothers me.
About the death I'm worried they'll kill someone for shock value. Like Felicity, or Diggle or Roy. I want everyone to live! I don't want to Lazarus Pit anyone. I'm freaking out because every interview all the producers say is "this season is insane", "killing Oliver is the least shocking thing" so I'm not keeping my chill on this one.
As long as it happens off-screen and takes at least the rest of the season, I'm fine with everyone. I think it will be Nyssa.
ReplyDeleteHaving to come back to this poll, I think Richard Dragon needs to show up and for a specific reason:
ReplyDeletein the comics, he trained Bronze Tiger and if he died in 'Arrow season 2.5', then I'd love to see Dragon show up to Starling City to find out what happened to his student.
They could have easily incorporated Diggle in those 3 episodes by making him a champion and trainer for Laurel. I wonder why they didn't think of that immediately after learning they can't use Ted Grant the way they want. He could have easily gone out with him and taught her discipline and how to scout for threats. Diggle would make a great mentor for someone someday.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying he deserves to die in any way. I'd rather he not. But most of what Roy does, in my opinion, is Diggle's old job, and sort hang at the periphery of the Thea/Malcolm part of the story. Could they find more things to do with him? Sure. But I know where Laurel's story is going - she's basically doing her origin story, figuring out what kind of hero she's going to be, how she's going to be one, is she part of Team Arrow or sort of like an independent contractor? Call her in for certain missions, but otherwise BC and TA are doing their own thing. Felicity is the only tech help, and beyond that she has whatever they're planning to do with her father. Diggle hasn't had much to do either, but he has the potential for more with the HIVE story, and if Roy dies and they go with the independent BC thing, he'll definitely be in the field more.
ReplyDeleteThere's more stuff that Roy can do, but it's easier for me to see the possibilities in other characters than in him. I can also see the purpose his death serves - Oliver loses a protege, Thea gets motivated to get her own mask, Diggle gets field time - where I'm not sure who else they can kill that would make that much sense, except Quentin, who isn't supposed to be in this episode, right? That's just how I see it, though.
I picked Nyssa and Tatsu. I just need laurel to be completely bad ass at this point. And lose the police baton and go back to the staff
ReplyDeleteHow about no one and she gets killed off
ReplyDeleteNo one ! She should focus on her work as a lawyer.
ReplyDeleteHahaha that's okay, I like discussing those things, don't worry about it!
ReplyDeleteIt's not that I think that their actions aren't understandable, it's just a lot of unnecessary conflict! Laurel is butting heads with Oliver since 3x02!
There's no doubt that every time Felicity interacts romantically with Ray is always about Oliver. She decided to work for Ray after hers and Oliver's discussion in 3x02, she kissed him after Oliver's speech to Cupid in 3x07, she slept with him after Oliver went to Nanda Parbat to probably die again... but the way her scenes with Ray are constructed cheapens things, like you said, the necklace and the dress before the date, the art works, the muscles... it's just so very superficial and foolish. Isn't she a VP to a huge company? She should be able to afford crazy expensive dresses on her on. And someone please tell Marc that after he introduced us to Stephen Freaking Amell doing all those exercises on season 1 there's no way we're going to be impressed by Brandon Routh. There's no choice to make!
Oliver reprimanding Laurel and Laurel bicker back is the way for the show to establish Laurel is a strong character. Sometimes I wonder these two actors have issues with each other because they are a little too good at bickering. When Laurel fights with her father or disagrees with Diggle and Roy it never has the ugly feel to Oliver/Laurel scenes.
ReplyDeleteExactly. They cheapenes Felicity who didn't bat an eye lash at the oppulent parties and Queen mansion last year by making her drool on costumes, jewellery and paintings. These scenes glares out on the screen and Felicity looks OOC. In the end Ray Palmer is the biggest plot device used by Arrow ever. If they had used this method for Sara and BC storyline last season people would not have been this upset when she died.
Nyssa and/or Lady Shiva.
ReplyDeleteBye Felicia!!!
ReplyDeleteThat is exactly what happened LOL!
ReplyDeleteNyssa! Please form the Birds of Prey!!!
ReplyDelete