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Supernatural – Season 10 Episode 16 – The Gripe Review

Mar 29, 2015

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Hi all, and welcome to the second review posted on a Sunday. I was happy to see so many of you show up and comment last week. It means the move didn't cost me readers. I really enjoy your comments here .They make the job of reviewing inane episodes a lot easier.

I was browsing the IMDB forum after the episode when a post caught my eye. Someone said they felt sorry for those tasked with recapping/reviewing this episode since they themselves almost fell asleep halfway through it. I didn't know what to think. This wasn't the worst episode I reviewed - that honor goes to episode 200 - but it did top last week's episode in snooze worthiness. The dreadful duo of writers in charge of it may have felt incapable of producing a script for the story they had in mind, so they decided to give the manuscript to the actors and ask them to read from it on camera. How else do you explain the existence of a journal that contains the entire backstory of the monster of the week, read by multiple characters in multiple scenes? That's lazy even by current Supernatural standards.

Let's get to the gripes because boy oh boy, are they plenty.


Gripe #1 - Do we have to sit through this every time?

We get it. Sam wants to find a cure. Dean thinks it's pointless. He is using these cases to forget about the mark and to give his life a purpose. They eventually take the case because how else can there be an episode? Does this have to be the opening to every MoTW story though? Do we have to sit through it every week? We already know where Dean and Sam stand with regards to the main plot. The writers aren't developing them any further by repeating the same banter. Why reiterate this parody sketch and make the boys look like amnesiacs? Does Sam have to deny the case being a case and be proven wrong every time? Does Dean have to stealth angst and guilt trip him into working it?

Gripe #2 - Who changed the channel and why am I watching Da Vinci's Demons?

We're barely ten minutes into the episode when we're thrown into a dream-filtered flashback about a woman who's name we don't even know. For a moment I thought a glitch happened and my DVR skipped some scenes.

There's no scenario that justifies showing the audience a flashback about a character they just met in that scene. This is bad writing 101. They teach this in creative writing in the 12th grade: Don't front-load your plot with backstory before the audience has a chance to know and give a damn about your characters.


But of course this duo doesn't care. They have a backstory to tell and they'll tell it one way or another. Perhaps they read my complaints about Show, Don't Tell  and thought a long-winded, under-cooked flashback sequence would be a brilliant idea. This is still telling though. Except this takes us one layer farther from the actual story and plunges us into a setting that suspiciously looks like our butt cheeks hit the remote control by accident.

This of course would have been slightly all right had the flashbacks been more compelling. Sadly they are tedious, have no story (other than lamenting an unrequited love,) and give away the only plot twist that could have saved this episode. How could the murderer be anyone but the character who roamed 16th century Florence, and is given more screen time than the heroes of the show?

Gripe #3 - Dean the blue-balled sleazeball

I've pointed a finger at this twice already, and am going to do so every time I see it on screen, because this is a bastardization of Dean's charming, flirty personality and I can't stand it. It's disgusting, out of character, and has no point. It raises the question what the writers themselves think proper treatment of women is when they write one of the most popular characters of the show this way. Is this is why they have failed to come up with a decent female character for ten years, because they have such a low opinion of women?

Dean's behavior visibly changes as soon as he sees the pretty nun. He takes on that wolfish look that makes most women uncomfortable rather than happy. He asks how someone "like her" ended up in a place like this, which begs the question, someone like what? A beautiful, sexy woman? I thought we were past the times when a woman's looks played the most crucial role in her choice of profession. Is Dean implying that good looking women need life altering reasons to become nuns while plain looking ones don't?


Since that conversation apparently wasn't enough to send the message of Dean undressing the nun with his eyes, they have him remind us again by telling Sam how hot she was in the next scene, after which Sam voices what I was thinking the entire time and we thankfully move on.

What amuses me is that, despite the writers' eagerness to show Dean as a man with sex on his brains on constant play, they give him little actual action in that line. When was the last time Dean had sex really? Season 7? Season 8? This repeated horn dog behavior only raises my suspicion that Dean is suffering from a colossal case of blue-balls which is why he is incapable of thinking about anything else when he sees a hot woman.

Gripe #4 - Dean's heartfelt confession is about what?

In a classic move reminiscent of seasons 3, 4 and 5, after Dean finishes fooling the ghost with his cheater act, he goes into a serious-face mode and, remembering his true woes, decides to confess to the priest. It's a rare and precious moment when we get to see Dean without his tough guy mask, and glimpse into his fears, pains and desires. In the past, these scenes were important junctures in the developing story of the elder Winchester and some of the best moments of the show. In the hands of the current writers however, it becomes a WTF moment.


Let's recap Dean's current dilemma. According to Cain he is destined to kill his nemesis, then his best friend, then his brother, before turning into a cursed being and walking the earth for all eternity. Why on earth is he then scared of death? Where in Cain's prophecy was anything said about him dying? Or is he anticipating someone will kill him before the prophecy comes true?

Even if that's the case it raises another issue: why is Dean afraid of dying in the first place when every time it has happened he has come back without a hitch? Didn't he die at the end of last season? Didn't he come back as a demon, have a jolly good time, and get put back together in the original format by Sam and Cas? Didn't he go to Hell in season 3, to Heaven in season 5, to Purgatory in season 7? How many times does it have to happen before the Winchesters and their feathered friend realize theirs is a two way ticket?

The reason this irks me is that Dean could have said so many things in that scene that would have made it memorable and important. He could have talked about the actual prophecy and its implications, or about his guilt over the massacre he committed under the influence of the Mark, or he could have revealed whether or not he truly doesn't care about a cure. Instead he says he doesn't want to die, then spits out a line that launches a thousand ships and a truckload of nonsensical reactions from a fandom doped up on meta and tag and fanfic.


Gripe #5 - This is why we can't have nice things.

During my research for this review I went to Tumblr, among other social media outlets, to gauge fan reaction toward this episode. What I found made my jaw drop. Instead of talking about the actual episode, nearly everyone talked about this line from Dean's confession:

I don't know. I mean, you know, there's -- there's things, there's...people, feelings that I-I-I want to experience differently than I have before, or maybe even for the first time.

The whole site was abuzz with people quoting that line and interpreting it the way they liked. Destiel shippers were claiming the line was a first step toward Dean realizing his true sexuality while some Wincest shippers swore it meant something involving Sam that I don't care to repeat here.

This is the reason we can't have good scripts. This is why the writers know they can get away with garbage as long as they include a vague yet suggestive reference and get all the fans drunk on the supposed meaning. Instead of viewers tweeting TPTD about the heck that's going on with the writing, everyone is hyper crazed because Dean said something that could mean any number of things, including trying out cow testicles at a diner in Nepal and dancing cheek to cheek with a cross dressing Hells Angel.


As for the individual factions and their claims, I have a few words for each of you:

Wincest shippers, I hope you can see how highly hypocritical and silly it is to constantly wave canon pitchforks at the opposite faction for daring to suggest Dean might be gay or bi, then turn around and claim he secretly wants to screw his own brother. Please check your self-righteous outrage now.

As for you Destiel shippers, could you please stop seeing canon Destiel in the pattern of bird poop on Dean's leather jacket? How many times do you have to go through this until you realize the show runners aren't up for it? Perhaps the CW gods are allergic to making the front man of one of their mostly male oriented shows LGBT, or perhaps they just don't like that storyline. Either way, they've said it loud and clear, on multiple occasions, that it's not going to happen. The only effect your constant demanding and crystal ball readings of the future has is to increase the risk of losing whatever friendship Dean and Castiel have left on the show.

Gripe #6 - Snark under torture and the Rowena b-plot of endless exposition

The writers also had a b-story on the side, about the Men of Letters destroying the coven Rowena had her sights on. As a way to include it in the episode, and due to lack of any other ideas, they decided to have Crowley kidnap the head of the coven and make her tell the story to Rowena while being tortured.


The result is a series of long and unconvincing dialogue scenes in which a character has the snot beaten out of her yet oscillates between throwing insults at her captors and narrating the backstory between splutters of blood. She acts like a complete sociopath with no sense of danger or survival skills, who gives up her secrets - the only bargaining chips she has that may help save her life - to her nemesis free of charge. I couldn't decide which was more painful to watch: flashbacks of a nameless woman whining about lost love before she became a ghost, or a bloody faced witch sniping at Rowena before she was turned into a hamster.

If you managed to get through this episode without falling asleep like our good friend from the IMDB forum, please leave a comment below. Next week looks like a mythology episode. I'm crossing my fingers we'll have more to talk about than writers turning episodes into script read-throughs and my endless grief over Dean.


Tessa

tessa-marlene.tumblr.com/
twitter.com/tessa_marlene 

47 comments:

  1. Not much to add, but dear god, these writers have no talent. Fan fiction is all that keeps this show alive. All I could think with the witch was, why is she telling Rowena this? Rowena has supposedly been on earth this whole time. She'd know.

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  2. Excellent review and I totally agree with everything you said. I couldn't believe how boring the episode was and was happy to see I wasn't alone. I understand that they are probably trying to give Jared and Jensen a bit of a lighter load, which is why they have the extra storylines with Crowley and Rowena, but can't they make it more interesting? I'm starting to fast forward my DVR through Rowena's scenes.

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  3. I have been complaining about Gripe #1 for weeks now, we get
    it already. Dean wants to hunt, Sam wants to, what, keep him locked away in the
    bunker while they may or may not find a cure while innocents die? We do not
    need the same scene over and over again. And it’s not like they include it once
    every episodes, which would be bad enough. They include the same scene twice
    per episode, at the beginning and end. And then at the ending of the episode
    when Sam or Dean seems to start agreeing with the other…it is forgotten again
    for the next episode when they have the same DISCUSSION AGAIN.

    Gripe #2, nothing to add really. This is like Paper Moon all
    over again, but worse. At least (ugh, never thought I would use that regarding
    that episode), was a single long and boring flashback about characters we don’t
    care about and have met only once before in a horrendous episode. These were multiple long flashbacks about a
    sob love story that feels like it should belong in Reign or The Vampire Diaries
    more than Supernatural.

    Gripe #3, what pisses me more about this one and Rock and a
    Hard Place is that we get that Dean enjoys sex. But it wasn’t until Carver’s
    era that the writers go to extremes with it. Dean has never allowed his
    feelings over a woman to blindside him about a case like this. Even in the
    first Lisa episode where Dean had a history, the moment a case showed itself,
    Dean dropped his act and was 100% focused on the case. Yet we have FEMALE
    WRITERS, writing female characters as nothing more than a fantasy for Dean to
    get his sex on.

    And yeah, this is not the second time where they have written
    Dean question an attractive woman not wanting sex and focusing on religion
    (Rock and a Hard Place, again). Because no attractive woman would want that, am
    I right? Only sad ugly virgins like Becky and even they are desperate for the “D”.
    Sometimes I want to disagree with those saying this show is misogynistic and
    then other times I remember that two of the only female writers on this show
    put out the most misogynistic scripts more often than not. (Also Dean had sex
    while a demon and in that horrible Rock and a Hard Place episode with the
    ex-porn start that was a huge slap in the face to his character and women in
    general).

    Gripe #4, I am going to try and guess that Dean’s fear is
    supposed to not be death itself, but coming back as a demon. But that scene was
    so all over the place. Maybe it would have made more sense if Dean’s fear had
    been becoming a monster had been made verbal instead of dying. Also didn’t get
    the line about God. God was going to let Lucifer do as he pleases and although
    he did give a hand in bringing Castiel back, we know from Dark Side of a Moon
    that he doesn’t really care anymore to have an active role in his creation.

    Gripe #5, this is a pleasant surprise. I actually made a
    post like that when I went to the “supernatural spoilers” rag on Tumblr
    expecting a discussion about the episode and was met with endless post about
    how this confirms “Dean is bi” or “Destiel is canon” (didn’t see ones about
    Wincest, but doesn’t surprise me there were also, I left the tag after the
    tenth post of same old, same old). I enjoy shipping meta here and there, and
    fanfictions and all that. But it is getting to the point that it’s the only
    meta out there and most of it feels like people wanting to see things that aren’t
    there. The End is my favorite episode ever and it makes me sad all the meta out
    there is about Dean and Castiel /totally screwing/ and barely anything else.

    Gripe #6, I mentioned this in my own review. But I’m certain
    this episode actually filmed two completely unrelated scripts because the
    writers were too lazy to actually complete a single one and the director needed
    to start filming. We have had disjoined arcs for the leads in the past. But no
    episode made it so obvious how little anything had to do with anything. Especially
    when one was so very much a MOTW and the other a myth-arc.

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  4. So that's another ghost episode with absolutely no mention of the veil problem. I usually don't care about bothering writers or whatever, but can someone much smarter/connected than me organise some petition/campaign to get these sorry excuse of writers to actually give us an explanation to what's going on with the veil or at the very least acknowledge it?!

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  5. I like this serie i already watch the episode here http://stamli.com/show/supernatural/season/10/episode/16

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  6. Thanks for the detailed comment Annie and for adding your own experience to the gripes.


    Someone else also mentioned Dean's fear might be of becoming a demon. But since he said "I don't want to die" and not "I don't want to become a monster" I doubt the writers were thinking along those lines. I doubt they were even thinking about the current mythology. They just saw an opportunity for Dean to emote and chose the most generic, non-specific dialogue they could choose that would make this scene reusable even in the future seasons. Think about that confession scene and what was said in it. Now notice how you could place it in any of the 10 seasons of Supernatural and it would work.


    I'm amused you had a similar experience on Tumblr as I did. I didn't post anything though, just went there to browse and see if anyone said anything to add to my gripes. But like I said, the site was filled with Destiel shippers going gaga over Dean coming out as bisexual. I would have been all for the idea if I thought for a second that were the case, but seriously, it was just a stupid, generic line that could be stuffed in any season for any reason. Then I read someone on Twitter say this was the best episode because with one confession the writers made both Destiel and Wincest fans happy. That piqued my curiosity and I went to check the Wincest tag and yeah...there were worse interpretations.


    Meanwhile no one cared that they shot an entire episode with two storylines that had zero Sam and Dean in them. This must have been J2's week off.

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  7. Oh, I don't doubt that's too intelligent for these writers. I am 100% certain they just wanted to have an "angsty scene", so they just c&p from previous similar scenes. This was obvious supposed to be a throwback to season 3, Dean not wanting to go to Hell. But while back then that actually worked and made sense. Here it was just another "wtf" moment.


    I couldn't even last two minutes in the tag. I hate to admit that this mindset to over analyze everything as proof that "insert ship here" will totally become canon has ended up turning me off from ships I used to enjoy, including Destiel. I actually saw a long post about how Dean's relationship with the porn start in Rock and a Hard Place was supposed to be a parallel to Dean and Castiel's relationship in the previous episode and a hint to future Destiel and it actually had lots of notes of people agreeing with it.


    I can understand wanting something to happen. But it becomes too much when any generic line or scene is made into this huge deal about something that is not really meant to be there. And unfortunately this has ended up costing us the real Dean and Castiel friendship. :(

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  8. I don't give a shit about what the (deranged) minority of destiel shippers think. Dean's confession was about him not wanting to become a monster. He would "die" because everything that he is would be consumed by the mark. He just wants to be human and experience human things. There's nothing shippy about it.

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  9. Please refrain from calling names and insulting a large subgroup of the fandom. I don't tolerate such language around here since this is supposed to be a safe, hate free space. I want to make one thing absolutely clear so there is no doubt in anyone's mind, so I'll say it in bold: There's nothing wrong with either shipping Destiel or Wincest. People are allowed to watch and interpret the show the way they want and no one should blame or shame them for it.


    You think the confession was about Dean being consumed by the Mark, that's fine. Someone else thinks it's about Dean coming out and that's fine too. I personally thought it was a pile of nonsense modeled after Dean's previous confessions. What I tried to get across in my review and might have gotten lost is that the hype and enthusiasm that the Destiel shippers created through these interpretations could have two side effects: 1) it makes the sh-tty writers bold that they could incite such reaction in the audience, and 2) it creates drama from haters (the real deranged crowd, IMO) which upsets TPTB so they separate Dean and Castiel on the show. I never meant to say either Destiel or the Wincest shippers weren't allowed to read that scene the way they wanted and I would appreciate if no one else brings their hate here.

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  10. Everything you said straight out of my thoughts. Another Tumblr post I read said the nun's relationship with the painter was a Destiel parallel. I hope this is a joke or a game and not a real prediction because, as I said in the review, another side effect of this, aside from making TPTB eradicate the Dean and Castiel friendship, is that this person no longer thinks that long ass flashback was a waste of time, and an insult to our intelligence. To them it's suddenly the greatest thing because it's a Dean/Castiel parallel. If we think like this about every trash they throw on our screens and gobble it up we are guaranteed to get more trash and I'm not ok with that.

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  11. It's as bad as people wanting /everybody/ to be Dean's Colette. Castiel, Sam, Crowley, they are all Colette apparently. Castiel is Castiel. Sam is Sam. No one is Colette. Which was pretty much the same female character every hunter and their uncle has had in this show who dies tragically for the hero to angst.

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  12. I don't think I can show them any compassion considering many members of that subgroup of fandom told me to go kill myself for asking how Destiel was canon. There are sensible Destiel shippers of course, but they are not abundant.

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  13. I have no patience for them either, since they ruined the Dean/Cas part of the show; something I truly enjoyed. Now, Cas has no purpose and shouldn't even be in the show, and Crowley has been turned into a pathetic prop to Rowena the Disney Witch. I find myself playing on the computer in every scene they are in. Paying bills is more enjoyable than watching either one of them.

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  14. I completely agree! I love Cas, and Misha Collins is incredible. But Cas has no place on the show since season 6. I fully believe that the show has suffered every year as the writers have scrambled to find some thing for him to do. There was some hope when he was made human, but that lasted about two episodes before it was back to business as usual.

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  15. Great review!

    Gripe #1 - Sam's Concern. This is tiresome mostly because I find the concern insincere. After all the years of fighting, without so much of a wisp of an apology, I am supposed to believe that Sam cares now? Too much damage has been done for that to be credible.

    Gripe #2 - Exposition on undeveloped character. I agree.

    Gripe #3 - Dean the Horndog. I never liked sleazy, frat boy humor and was happy when Dean grew out of that stage. Unfortunately, Carver has seen fit to bring it back.

    Gripe #4 - Dean's Confession. I thought the confessional was anonymous. Is that true or TV fiction? If so, why was the priest addressing the confessors by name?

    Gripe #5 - Poor Writing. You don't have to write down to an audience. Watch the classic Disney movies; they are as entertaining for adults as for children. Same for the old Looney Tunes. Children love the slapstick but the verbal jokes are for the parents.

    Gripe #6 - Snark Under Torture. The bad guy always gives up his leverage under torture. I might have cared if Rowena were the least bit sympathetic, but it is like watching two hyenas go at it. In fact, I am looking forward to seeing Crowley wipe the smirk off Rowena's face.

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  16. I know! When the Sister talked about hearing the ghosts and they are generally friendly and then go away after a while, I had two thoughts. The first was "the veil got fixed? when did that happen?" The second was, "how do all these spirits stay calm and friendly when Bobby couldn't hold out for 6 months?". Then I realized that the writers don't care, so I should just give up on any continuity.

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  17. If they say it on this forum I'll tell them to stop it too. I won't tolerate hate either way. The above post didn't insult them for being bullies, but for having an opinion, which is similar to what was done to you and absolutely wrong.

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  18. When was the last time Dean had sex really? Season 7? Season 8?

    Season 9, during the Vestal virgin episode, where he went home with the celibacy counselor, found her former porn tapes and got her to go to bed with him after making remarks about how good it would be for her if people knew what she had been. We were supposed to believe that Dean is so attractive that a woman sworn to be celibate after re-evaluating her life choices would immediately give up her vows and the life she had worked for. For some of us it came across as pushy and sleepy on Dean's part.

    The reason this irks me is that Dean could have said so many things in that scene that would have made it memorable and important. He could have talked about the actual prophecy and its implications, or about his guilt over the massacre he committed under the influence of the Mark, or he could have revealed whether or not he truly doesn't care about a cure. Instead he says he doesn't want to die, then spits out a line that launches a thousand ships and a truckload of nonsensical reactions from a fandom doped up on meta and tag and fanfic.

    Yeah, the confession left me more thinking that Dean was being a self-involved jerk. Look, I want Dean to want a life for himself, although his repeated guilting Sam for ever wanting one for himself and his anger when Sam tries for one, makes me a little nuts, but it would be nice if Dean would finally value himself enough to want more than live bloody, die young. However, his massive unconcern about potentially killing Cas and Sam, at the very least, does not make him look good. Say you've been told that you could hurt people you love, but you don't believe that, then go on to what you have missed. It's not what I would have expected Dean to confess. Especially since when Sam didn't know where to start with confession, Dean managed to remember every single thing Sam had ever done wrong AND attributed some of Dean's wrongs to Sam (Penny what's her name?)

    I don't know. I mean, you know, there's -- there's things, there's...people, feelings that I-I-I want to experience differently than I have before, or maybe even for the first time.

    The whole site was abuzz with people quoting that line and interpreting it the way they liked. Destiel shippers were claiming the line was a first step toward Dean realizing his true sexuality while some Wincest shippers swore it meant something involving Sam that I don't care to repeat here.


    You run into more delusional Wincesters than I do. Fortunately the ones I hit tend to just go to various fanfiction sites and write what they imagine, while being fully aware that it will not and really should not be in the show. I have hit the rabid Destiel crowd who apparently decided that Dean wants to grab Cas, go to a state with same-sex marriage and possibly get hot nun to be a surrogate so they can have children. Personally I didn't know what the Hell Dean was going on about because I was yelling, "You can't die! You didn't die the last time you died! You came back as a demon! Crowley told you The Mark won't let you go! The only way you can die is if someone else has the Mark and the Blade and they kill you. Sam hasn't gone that batty yet! Why are you going on about not wanting to die! Want to not kill Cas and Sam! You have no real reason to not want to kill Crowley, so I'm not chuffed about that, but YOU CAN'T DIE!". I was not happy with the confession.


    This is not the worst episode of Supernatural. These guys will have to work to be more offensive than Man's Best Friends With Benefits. This is the first time that I have considered that I might not stop watching Supernatural because of the canon lapses and the lack of character consistency and development, but because watching paint dry may be more interesting.

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  19. She was probably in hiding, or something. Think back to Metatron, he was one Earth in hiding for decades and didn't know a thing about what had happened with the angels. Perhaps the same thing is what Rowena had gone through, she was on Earth, but hiding so she didn't know what was going on with the Coven. But still, you'd figure that she would know a thing or two about the Men of Letters lol

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  20. I pretty much said all of my gripes with this episode in the "what did you think of" section :) but yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head! Destiel and Wincest???? Ewwwww! I'll tell you, that really wasn't what I was thinking when Dean said those words. Not even the first thought! I was thinking that yeah, it had to do with the mark and him wanting to to something new but fearing it.. or something like that lol
    If there were any male on male ship in this show I would love to see... it would be Crowley and Castiel! ;)

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  21. Your gripe reviews make me wish more and more for Supernatural to end this season. I fear if it gets renewed for another season, the damage would only worsen. I can't bear for that to what started out to be a truly compelling series. This show needs to be put out of its mercy.

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  22. "It would have been much more meaningful to the story and to the season as a whole if Dean, in the confessional speech, came to realize that he needed to talk to someone, but that someone could not be Sam and then in later episodes, the why behind that. It would have been much more meaningful to Sam's character and story if he had somehow realized that the brother's relationship had changed and to go on with the season and explore the why of that (at least as an interesting sub-text or C-plot story)."
    Sounds like a great idea. Wish that was the case with this episode.

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  23. Sorry to be the one to tell you that the show has already been confirmed for a S11. Expect more of the same.

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  24. Keep milking that cash cow, CW.

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  25. I'm not watching the show. I haven't for a while. I just reached my limit with the fatigue I felt about the show lately. And, BTW Toni, this is the comment section. I'm just posting my comments, expressing what I think and what I am saying is civil compare to the many offensive things I've said other people have said about the show.

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  26. Great review and I agree on all points lol. Wasn't impressed with the episode just felt like filler. The biggest problem I have is the Rewona storyline, I don't get how she is a threat. Anyway the episode was fairly boring and I don't have much else to say on it. Just hope the quality begins to increase going into the finale *fingers crossed*

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  27. I know and I understand that. My comments were civil too. We just disagree.

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  28. No, your comment was not civil. It was rude and added nothing to the discussion. I have voiced the same opinion -- that TPTB should start thinking about wrapping the show up if they no longer have an interest putting effort or thought into it and are resorting to poached stories.

    This is a comment section on an article called "The Gripe Review," which is a critique of what is being put forth for viewing. Everyone who posted here was invited to do so with any opinion they held. I know I, for one, have invested a decade of time and money into the Winchesters and think that earns the right to voice an opinion about something put forth for public consumption and critical review. If that opinion is that it's time for the show to start thinking about wrapping it up, then so be it. That's an opinion, and for someone to come back and say just quit watching if you don't like it invalidates that person and that opinion. That is the height of hubris, IMO.

    Sorry, Tessa, if I am overstepping some rule. I see that kind of remark so often and it ticks me off royally.

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  29. I'm sorry you feel that way. Since, as you pointed out, this is the Gripe Review, I assume I'm allowed to post my own opinion in the comments or in response, as well. It's called debate. At no moment did I attack or insult the poster personally. My telling them to stop watching doesn't invalidate a thing simply because it's my opinion. Not theirs. No one can invalidate you or your opinions without your permission.

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  30. Gripe#3 I believe the last time Dean had sex was 10x01 Black. He was a demon and with the blonde chick.

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  31. Considering they have to the gall to call the writers queerbaiters and homophobes, Jensen has also gotten the homophobe name tossed his way, as well as one of the actual gay writers. So no they deserved the derision they get. It takes a lot for a subgroup of people to make another subgroup that writes incestuous fanfiction seem sane and rational.

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  32. I didn't see anything wrong with how Dean acted, he didn't hit on the nun. He thought she was hot, and god forbid he thinks a nun is hot. After that he wasn't leering or doing inappropriate.

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  33. Yet Dean wasn't pushy with Suzy, in fact she is the one that initiates the flirting with Dean.

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  34. And how exactly is someone saying I wish the show was cancelled adding to the discussion of the episode? Toni was completely civil in their comment.

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  35. Is nothing sacred? Look at the picture Tessa posted of that encounter. Dean looks like a predator. Is there anywhere a woman can be safe from the hunt? He was on the job and, yes, he was leering. That is completely unprofessional.

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  36. I wasn't calling all destiel fans deranged. Just a small minority of them. Maybe you haven't seen what's been going on on Tumblr and Twitter lately? I was talking about the small minority that sends nasty messages to other fans and the actors just because they don't ship it.

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  37. Thanks for the gripes, I agree with all of them!
    Since there is not a lot of good shows on TV anymore, my wife and I decided to start Supernatural over again. There is such a huge difference between the writing in the first 6 seasons than the writing now. Also the interactions with the Winchester brothers is so much better in those seasons than now. I really hope that they get some new writers and a new show runner next season! As for this episode, it was basically a waste of 44 minutes of my life. Also, anytime rowena is on-screen, I have absolutely zero interest in what she has to say! UGH!

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  38. 1 Dean has never insulted Sam's wish for a normal life. He's felt insulted that Sam felt the need to get away from him as well as John. He has more then once made Dean aware that he was embarrassed by both John & Dean. Sam has left no doubt with Dean he felt the best memories were running away and worrying John & Dean and the night he left for Stanford to be good memories so if I were Dean I'd be insulted too. As for the dream that was after Dean spent time with Ben and Lisa when he kept the promise he made Sam but he walked away from them which is odd for a guy who supposedly wants a normal life. Why not just stay? As for the golf Sam made no doubt he thought Dean golfing was the funniest thing he'd ever heard so yeah razzing and no Dean's not sensitive. As for Dean razzing Sam it's no where as much as Sam has razzed him. Good little soldier in asylum, Dean's not getting hook up with Santa because as Sam puts it Dean's "A bad person." Or in answer to Dean wondering why people think their gay a crack on Dean being 'butch'. He's pends Dean's money and when Dean says he earned the money Sam slaps him with Dean winning it in a poker game. So? Dean's skill is what won the game so yeah he earned it no matter how dismissive Sam is. Dean doesn't change he said he is a Hunter and he's never changed that except when he kept his promise to Sam. Sam is the one who keeps changing his mind not Dean. He told his brother in Wishful Thinking he wanted to be a Hunter yet season 8 he suddenly wants normal life. I'm getting whiplash from Sam's normal/Hunter back and forth and he isn't a spring chicken but unlike Dean he's still bouncing back and forth.

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  39. And that screencap is taken completely out of context. If you actually watch the scene again there is nothing predatory about Dean. The scene plays out Dean is questioning the nun, the nun realizes/asks Dean if they are looking for a motive, and Dean gives that smile as an "ah you got me, we are" look/smile, and caries on with the convo. There is literally nothing sexual about that, just taking a screencap medias res and saying he looks predatory like he's leering, doesn't actually mean he was leering, because context.

    I mean I can take a screencap of a character mid blink and say it looks they are having an orgasm, doesn't mean they actually are.

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  40. "The look" was done to add humor to the episode. I seriously doubt the writers were giving thought to who watching would be offended or bring their personal social justice issues into it.


    I haven't re-watched the episode, but didn't the nun say, "Sweet Jesus?" That, to the church, is blasphemy. Besides, these were 'sisters,' not 'nuns.' Sisters don't wear the habit -- nuns do. Nuns are cloistered and sisters work out in the community. There was a lot wrong with this episode, and Dean giving a "look" was the least of it.

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  41. Sam said it himself in ark Side of the moon so no it's not ludicrous. Dean's the one who is always giving into Sam. If that's the way Sam idolizes someone I hope he never idolizes me. John didn't throw Sam out, Sam chose to leave and never bothered to look back until Dean came to protect him on John's request. Sam had his brothers body in season 2 and season 3 and he did everything to get Dean back but in season 8 all he's got in black smear on the wall and he gives Dean up for dead? Sam is the one who keeps changing his mind Dean has never doubted his path. And of course the memories were chosen by Zach because then Sam can be excused for them right? Why would he want to separate them? He wanted to get revenge on them both so he'd obviously wouldn't want to separate and Sam never denied they were his memories. Sam has bitched about the way John and Dean get their money and where did Sam hustle for cash? You mean the time he left $500 dollars that he won to his opponent because Ruby was more important? The only other time Sam hustled was with Patrick and that wasn't for cash. Dean is fine with hunting but not with Sam's opinion of him wanting to be a Hunter. Sam didn't 'make plans' Sam got out of the business with no proof Dean/Cas were dead. Owing Meg for her help and leaving Kevin an innocent teenager to be tortured by Crowley. Sam turned off his cells without letting any Hunter know about Kevin or that he was quitting. He fought to get Dean back when he had proof Dean was dead but he has no proof Dean is dead in 7x23 but he just gives up and walks away to hook up with abusive Amelia?

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  42. The Angels didn't get back their ability to teleport, and unless proved otherwise there are no new prophets. Clearly Metatron's actions weren't fixed.
    So I don't see how the veil situation would have been the only thing resolved.

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  43. Just thought about something, if the Grand Coven had ceased to exist like a hundred years ago, how the hell was it able to track down Rowena and send a couple of assassins to off her ?

    And if Rowena had enough contacts to know when Olivette had arrived in the US, how the hell did she miss the memo that the Grand Coven had been wiped out ?

    Plot holes, plot holes everywhere

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  44. Staying in fancy hotels and killing maids and waiters doesn't sound like hiding to me.

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  45. There really wasn't any "look," like I mentioned above, that screencap actually has context as to why Dean is smiling, and it has nothing to do with him being "predatory."

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  46. It's not that it ceased to exist, but rather it doesn't hold as much clout/power as it once did. So it's not a plot hole,

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