Supernatural - Season 10 Episode 15 - The Gripe Review
22 Mar 2015
Reviews Supernatural The Gripe ReviewHi folks and welcome back to the Gripe Review, which from now on will be posted on Sundays instead of Saturdays.
As I said in my Tumblr post, with the show moving to Wednesdays I need an extra day to organize my thoughts and write a proper review. I hope this doesn't cause too much inconvenience and keep you from coming here to check out my ramblings. If the CW is ok bouncing a 10 year old show from night to night like a beach ball (perhaps in hopes of tricking its devoted audience into watching a new show, *cough* iZombie*cough*) I shouldn’t feel too bad about bouncing along with it.
With that out of the way, let's get to the episode. There are two things I want to say about this episode before I get to the gripes:
1) This episode had the lowest rating of this season, and possibly of the past ones. The reason behind it isn't that this episode was the most awful of the season, but because it was put against the ratings juggernaut, the Empire finale, which had a 6.9/20 rating in that time slot, an index and share unheard of since ratings became an online thing.
2) This was still an awful episode.
The episode follows every tiresome convention of this season's generic standalone: Sam looks for a cure for Dean, Dean finds a case, Same tells Dean they have more important things to worry about (the Mark,) Dean tells him that's not any reason for them not to do their job (this trope goes as far back as season 7,) the two of them get on the road to meet this week's guest star who, inexplicably and inexorably, high jacks the episode from them and makes it about him/her own character arc. Angst ensues; folks learn stuff; lather, rinse, hang to dry.
It’s a shame the Winchesters went from quality material such as The Executioner's Song to this drab without even a segue. It used to be Sam getting injured, or Dean getting distraught, or there was need to hide from a baddie, or the authorities, and the writers would use that excuse as an opportunity to slot in a one-off episode. Now they don’t even bother. Dean scores a victory against Cain, Sam realizes the magnitude of Dean's dilemma... and after a month-long hiatus we're back to where we started, with Sam doing Google searches and Dean telling him to focus on tripe cases.
Of course Dean's entanglement with Cain, and everything that passed between them that helped move Dean's character story along, is also swept under the rug as he's back to his mope mode where he thinks he's hopeless and should just save random strangers and ignore the ticking time bomb, picking up exactly where he left off in the last MoTW party.
Gripe #1 - Cole rides in the impala's backseat as the boys ride in the backseat of the plot
In the now established tradition of season 10 standalones, a guest star comes in to have his character growth on the Winchesters' time. This time it’s Cole, joining Charlie and Clair on the list of “recurring characters you'd rather see dead.”
I have talked about this in parts of my previous reviews. It's true that the earlier seasons, even the golden years of 1-5, featured guest characters who joined the brothers for an episode or two and became the focus of the plot in those episodes. The difference however was that those characters, and their stories, were presented as an aid to the brother's overall storyline and character development. The guest character went through an arc that closely resembled something Sam and Dean (and in rare cases Bobby and Castiel) went through and as a result, the main cast learned something from the experience, growing both in terms of story and character.
Here the benefits are all Cole's. Much like Hibbing 911, where Donna Hanscum went through an experience that helped Jody learn more about herself, Cole's friend Kit plays the foil to Cole, so he would learn how to deal with monsters and come to terms with his dad's death at Dean's hand. All well and good, but here’s the thing: I don't know much about Cole. He isn't a character I love. I don't care whether he learns this lesson or not, or gets over his internal conflict, or reaches inner peace. I don’t even care if he lives or dies. That’s how much I don’t care about Cole, because why should I? It’s not like I went on a decade long journey with him that would make me feel some sort of loss if he suffers or goes away. I don't understand why I’m forced to spend an entire episode watching him get character development and backstory that would make it more likely for him to come back.
Gripe #2 – Mr. Cole Boren Hausen
It doesn't help that, among the ones who are in the business of plot high jacking, Cole is probably the most boring one. I generally don't jump on actors for their performance flaws, as there usually is a bad script behind every bad performance. But with Cole, I can't blame it all on script. Charlie and Garth at least had unique personalities that kept things interesting even when they monopolized the script. Cole exhibits all the quirks of a walking transistor radio stuck on the traffic channel. He delivers every line with the same intonation, and facial expression, regardless of the situation his character's in or what the line contains. It's as if he himself is bored with the script and is just trying to get through it.
It's almost mind bending how a guy could be electrocuted to the point of frothing at the mouth, yet sound more blasé about it than a guy getting a physical exam. The damage of this is that I - a member of the audience watching his story - end up not caring either. It doesn’t matter whether he dies of electrocution or of Khan worm infection. After he has hogged my screen long enough to make me miss my main characters, Sam and Dean (and Castiel, who is once again unjustifiably absent) I would wish he would die anyway and leave me alone.
Gripe #3 – The *yawn* storyline
So what happens after we meet Cole? We find out he is friends with the next potential victim/murderer. The boys investigate, which is always the dragging part of MoTW episodes, until they reach the exciting segment where they have to deal with the monster itself. Except that exciting part in this episode consists of Cole sweating the monster out of his body while doing character defining acrobatics, while Sam plays bodyguard to a delusional woman who doesn't understand her husband has turned into the swamp monster. How riveting! Maybe if Cole was a more engaging character, or the situation was ramped up to a more heart pumping action sequence, instead of, you know, a series of dialogue scenes, I would have liked it better. As it was, five minutes into the best parts of the episode I was wishing Sam and Dean would kill their respective worm guys and take off in the Impala to find the nun from next week's episode.
Gripe #4 - idiot bit characters
Again, this is something I've talked about before but, by God, I can't understand why it has become a thing on this show. The ordinary folk on Supernatural are supposed to be clueless about the monsters that inhabit the world with them. You would expect their natural reaction to an encounter with such monsters to be one of shock and awe, followed by a sprint. That isn’t even a question of storytelling but a matter of logic. Yet in this episode we have this guy, standing in the middle of a convenience store aisle, dialing God knows what service while his coworker's throat just got slashed by a guy who looks like a real life case of the Walking Dead. Call me nitpicky but in my opinion, if this were real life, the guy would run at least fifty miles before even remembering he has a phone.
Same goes for Kit’s wife. She looks at her husband's deformed, bloody face, and predatory eyes, and tries to level with him, telling him things will be all right and they'll somehow get through this. Lady, your husband is snarling at you! At what point will it clue in for you that there's something worse than post traumatic marital issues going on here?
Gripe #5 - hypocrite (and sadistic?) Dean
We also get Dean and Cole bonding in this episode because... I guess they had great chemistry last time. The writers seem unable to decide what such a bonding involves. First we have Dean looking anguished as he inflicts pain on Cole, which makes me wonder if it's an attempt to make us feel sympathy for Cole through the trickle effect. Then he lectures Cole on not giving up fighting the monster inside him, which is great advice if he himself hadn't told Sam in the beginning that he was resigned to his fate and just wanted to coast along. Can we have a clear definition of what Dean feels about his affliction with the Mark? If he's on the let-it-go team it should reflect in his conversation with Cole, if he believes in the spirit of fighting then it's highly hypocritical of him to expect that from someone else while scolding Sam for trying.
The other WTF-Dean moment came when Cole was being dehydrated and Dean started drinking from a bottle right in front of him, staring daringly at him. I really didn't understand that. Was being baited and tormented part of Cole's treatment process, or was Dean looking for a thrill and thought tempting a guy with a bloodthirsty monster inside him was a good way to get it? Any reason why he couldn't have his chug in the bathroom, or somewhere the Khan worm infected partly insane guy couldn't see him?
Last but not least, and rather off topic, is my irritation at Cole calling Dean "Deano" and Sam "Sammy." I guess it's to show how chummy he is with the brothers despite looking disinterested the entire time. However, for a character to get to that level of intimacy with someone to call them by a pet name, they have to first earn it by playing second fiddle to them a number of times (see Castiel, Bobby, Crowley, and Kevin.) Showing up and stealing the show and thinking that would qualify them to be cute with the main characters is annoying.
Gripe #6 - Sam's arbitrary moping session
At the end of the episode we have the classic Impala scene in which the brothers reflect on what happened in the episode and how it affects their own storyline. This time however, we have a bizarre angst infusion wherein Sam feels guilty about not being able to save Kit. I have no idea where that comes from or how it fits in the overall theme of the episode. As a professional hunter Sam has killed hundreds of infected humans, sometimes without even looking back to see where the corpse has fallen. What was so special about this time that he felt so guilty? Was is because of his deep emotional attachment to the guy's super smart wife?
And isn't the theme of the episode fighting inner demons and understanding one's limitations when the only choice is to kill a monster (re: Cole's dad?) Shouldn't that lead Sam to accept his personal limitations and make peace with killing Kit? Or is the experience a reminder of Dean, in some bend-over-backwards fashion I don't understand?
Don't forget to leave your thoughts in the comments. Next week’s review, as I mentioned before, will also be posted on Sunday, as will the rest of them from now on. Until then I hope you keep the conversation going and add to it whatever gripes (and praises) you might have.
Tessa
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Thanks for the great read! This episode actually tied its series low in demo (which was achieved on a Friday during the Leviathan year). It was slightly above its series low in viewers though, just. I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but during its last half hour Empire actually rose to above 7, which Is when Supernatural dropped to 0.6. I just hope that they CW will stop bouncing the show around now. Sure fans used to follow it around all the time, but the writing isn't good enough at the moment for people to drop all of their other shows to watch this one live.
ReplyDeleteI think the idea of the end was more about Dean trying to ease Sam into he probably isn't going to make it than anything else so when it hits the fan with the Mark Sam shouldn't beat himself up about it even though he would appreciate a hail Mary pass that means he survives.
ReplyDeleteWith Sam, his character arc here was tied up with the look he gave Dean when the first wife admitted that when things started to go wrong with her husband she had 'just' thought it was PTSD when it wasn't. He knew things were wrong with Dean but now he regrets not really trying his hardest to sort things out earlier.
Wasn't there a gag that Cole mentioned it was a normal Tuesday and Dean retorted it was only Monday?
ReplyDeleteKind of gives the impression that they knew it was moving but didn't get the Wednesday confirmation until after filming was done.
My only gripe is that they even aired the episode in the first place.
ReplyDeleteHere the benefits are all Cole's. Much like Hibbing 911, where Donna
ReplyDeleteHanscum went through an experience that helped Jody learn more about
herself, Cole's friend Kit plays the foil to Cole, so he would learn how
to deal with monsters and come to terms with his dad's death at Dean's
hand. All well and good, but here’s the thing: I don't know much about
Cole. He isn't a character I love. I don't care whether he learns this
lesson or not, or gets over his internal conflict, or reaches inner
peace. I don’t even care if he lives or dies
I know, I care about Jody and Donna. If they have to focus on other characters the adventures of Jody teaching Donna how to be a sheriff while hunting monsters that land in your town in your off hours is one I could get behind. But Cole? He tortured Sam as a way to get to Dean. I don't care that he thought Dean killed his dad. He TORTURED Sam! I don't care if he ever learns a life lesson again and I want the first life lesson he learns is to tell Sam that he's sorry he TORTURED him, not call him Sammy like they are best buds.
and Castiel, who is once again unjustifiably absent) Oh, Cas. Stuck in the trap of too powerful to come along, not interesting when he's totally human, or at least that's how the writers see it. I can see that it would be hard to explain why an almost fully charged angel of God can't handle one mutant creation of Eve without the writers having to be creative and write something. So his absence is justifiable in that if he's there, he heals Cole and then Kit and then everyone twiddles their thumbs for the rest of the show. Personally, I think that if Cas is a regular he needs to be human and no backsies, but as I said, the writers think he's boring that way. He's more boring with powers and dealing with Claire, but they don't see that.
Yet in this episode we have this guy, standing in the middle of a
convenient store isle, dialing God knows what service while his
coworker's throat just got slashed, by a guy who looks like a real life
case of the Walking Dead. Call me nitpicky but in my opinion, if this
were real life, the guy would run at least fifty miles before even
remembering he has a phone.
Absolutely! I still have great affection for the convenience store guy who saw Dean beat up his customer and when Sam asked him if he saw where Dean headed basically said he was too busy trying to not mess up his pants and hiding! That the instinct that keep the species going!
when the first wife admitted that when things started to go wrong with her husband she had 'just' thought it was PTSD when it wasn't.She still seems to think that's the case since she was having a hard time believing Sam when he told her about the monsters. During that whole conversation I was thinking what she thought had happened to her husband since he just attacked her like he wanted to eat her brains.He knew things were wrong with Dean but now he regrets not really trying his hardest to sort things out earlier.I thought about the attempt of tying Sam's grief over not being able to save Kit to him feeling helpless to save Dean, but their script was so clunky and the connection between him and his case victims so non-existent that you would have to, as I said, bend over backwards to get to that conclusion.
ReplyDeleteAs for Cole, I'm still adamant that the he will end up being the focus of the spin off. Great! I hope he takes Charlie with him.
ReplyDeleteEr, sorry hit post before I meant to on that last one and had too much to say to edit.
ReplyDeleteThe other WTF-Dean moment came when Cole was being dehydrated and Dean
started drinking from a bottle right in front of him, staring daringly
at him. I really didn't understand that. Was being baited and tormented
part of Cole's treatment process, or was Dean looking for a thrill and
thought tempting a guy with a bloodthirsty monster inside him was a good
way to get it?
In a blink and you miss it moment, Dean said the idea was to get the worm to go for a more hydrated body. I think Dean drinking in front of Cole was him trying to lure the worm out. I give the daring, enjoying tormenting Cole look as Jensen remembering he has the MOC and it is making him less empathetic.
Last but not least, and rather off topic, is my irritation at Cole
calling Dean "Deano" and Sam "Sammy." I guess it's to show how chummy he
is with the brothers despite looking disinterested the entire time.
However, for a character to get to that level of intimacy with someone
to call them by a pet name, they have to first earn it by playing second
fiddle to them a number of times (see Castiel, Bobby, Crowley, and
Kevin.) Showing up and stealing the show from them and thinking that
would qualify you to be cute with them is annoying.
Especially considering HE TORTURED SAM! (I'm not letting that go.) How many seasons did we hear that nobody calls Sam Sammy except Dean? Even Cas and Bobby didn't. I could see Cole doing it to try and portray himself as their equals (even after he tortured Sam). I can't see neither of them saying "nobody calls him/me that but Dean".
Can we have a clear definition of what Dean feels about his affliction
with the Mark? If he's on the let-it-go team it should reflect in his
conversation with Cole, if he believes in the spirit of fighting then
it's highly hypocritical of him to expect that from someone else while
scolding Sam for trying.
This is from earlier, but the big problem with this is that this isn't season 3, where trying to find a way out of the deal would result in Sam's death. Last season they established that Dean can't die permanently.* Letting this thing take it's course doesn't end with Dean dead. If Cain was right, it ends with Sam dead and Dean a demon. From what we've been Dean is now like Cain and Cain could only be killed by the First Blade being wielded by someone wearing the Mark. Dean should, if he were in character, be telling Sam to run fast and run far to save himself. Sam could then refuse to leave Dean believing in Dean's ability to fight the Mark. Angst would ensue, but at least it would be IN CHARACTER angst. Heck Dean could even ask Cas to wipe Sam's memory to get Sam away from him. That at least fits with his actions with Gadreel wiping Sam's memory to keep him alive and wiping Lisa and Ben's memory. But no! Dean has to leave Sam in imminent danger, not tell Sam that in addition to the history of Cain killing Abel, that Cain says Dean will be forced to kill Sam so that Sam can protect himself. I think that was supposed be the parallel between Sam and the wife, that both are in denial of how dangerous the person they love is. But with these guys, who the heck knows.
*Considering the way the writers change canon, it may now be possible to kill Dean in some way. Maybe they can find another rouge Reaper who didn't go crazy because heaven was closed (is heaven still closed?) who will help stop Dean from coming back. I don't know I can't keep canon straight any more.
No not Jemma, Kit's wife. The first one, the wife with the baby in her arms, the one who's husband instead of continually running set himself alight after his killing and drinking the other soldier.
ReplyDeleteShe described how she and her husband went to the VA and got put on a list to be put on a list and how she caught him drinking bath water and she thought it was pTSD. Sam looked sad then threw Dean a look a little bit guilty look.
And yes Dean was trying to comfort his brother about not saving Kit when Sam tried. But that he was also telling him not to beat himself up about not saving him too.
The episode was boring. I don’t care about Cole. They messed up his back story from the get-go. The actor is pedestrian at best. Plus he’s short. Why are we wasting precious chunks of time on the life & times of weekly guest stars when there’s a HUGE arc going down involving one of the main players???
ReplyDeleteDEAN’S IN TROUBLE!!! Has everyone at Supernatural Inc. forgotten?
(I want a return to the good ol’ days when I rarely agreed with the Gripe Review).
I'm still hoping for a Cas and Benny spin off with Mrs Tran as a sort of Bobby figure. Though their first task would to be kill Charlie the so called 'fan favourite'
ReplyDeleteTravis Wade is too old for the CW. I think he is more in mind for another SPN recurring than any spin-off. I'm not even sure the network is dedicated to having a spin-off anymore.
ReplyDeleteEvery week it bugs me more and more that nobody on or off the show has acknowledged that there is only one way into heaven, and that the veil problem has had no conclusion or has even been mentioned ever again.
ReplyDeletePlus he's short? C'mon.
ReplyDeleteI think the idea was to leave the audience with the impression that Sam will either have to kill Dean or save Dean. Dean can't be killed, so it's not too believable that Sam would kill him.
ReplyDeleteI think Dean saving himself is not one of the options now. Sam is supposed to do 'dark things,' -- probably from Charlie's magic spell book -- but we are not seeing any indication of it so far....and I have no idea what any of it has to do with the "each character fighting their inner demons" this season. Dean isn't fighting -- he's given up. Sam is worried, silent, and doing nothing. Cas is....somewhere. Crowley is with mommy, still seeking her love and affection. And the audience...well, we are still waiting for a story.
I am interested to see if the ratings will go back up to .7 or .8. I think that's the best that can be achieved given this season's disappointment.
ReplyDeleteMind you, the show is still a money horse and has been picked up for S11 already, so ratings don't mean anything now. The longer it goes, the more episodes there are for syndication, more merchandising can be sold, and cons held. In other words, the show is being milked for all it is worth and whoever hangs in there to watch it is just a bonus, but not all that important in the scheme of things.
Oh, I'm with you 100%. Although I'm half betting that they are holding that card so when [insert brother's name here] dies it will be used to bring them back, because it wont' be pulling them out of heaven, it will be saving them from becoming a rage filled ghost. Never mind that there aren't a bazillion rage filled ghosts running around now because of the veil. [Insert brother's name here] will immediately become crazed and the only way to save him will be to return him to life.
ReplyDeleteNOTE: Gripes from years past. Mary was able to stay sane and non murderous for 22 years as a ghost. The ghosts in the house where Bobby learned how to affect matter weren't obviously rage filled, insane or violent. Then Bobby suddenly has to be put down because he can't control himself? Really?
I think what the writers are trying to say is that Sam supposedly going to do dark things needs a lead in. And him having not only being desperate but having regrets about how he has handled things with Dean when he first got the mark is the writers way of making him go that extra dark after all the guff about him not making deals etc. As for Dean sure he has resigned himself to things because he knows the mark is feeding off something that is already inside him. But I think also he is trying to absolve Sam if things go bad - if Sam isn't researching and trying to fix things when Dean blows, Sam can't feel guilty about it or will feel less guilty about it.
ReplyDeleteBut as for the actual going dark thing, I think Sam going dark will be more tied in with Rowena, more than anything else as them getting introduced to the notion of the Grand Coven and the idea of witches being able to affect the mark in some way makes no sense unless they are going to tie up the Mark and Crowley's need for love thing.
Another review to the point. I'm also glad I wasn't the only one bothered by Dean just drinking his water in front of Cole. Seems stupid putting the temptation there. Kind of like pulling out a beer in front of someone you know is trying to avoid drinking.
ReplyDeleteI was even more confused as to why he didn't just tied Cole up since the beginning. And then when Cole asked he just took his time...slowly....grabbing...the...rope...and...even...slower...trying...to....why??? You would think he would have looked less like he wanted to be sleeping somewhere than tying someone up.
Or Sam just giving his back to the dangerous monster. There were so many stupid character moments these episode.
Also, off topic, but it's cool we watch so many of the same shows. Sleepy Hollow, The 100 and Grimm? xD Did you managed to watch Dominion or From Dusk Till Dawn for old school brothers codependency?
Gripe #4 about the other clerk and the wife are the best! I said the same thing you did when I saw the wife trying to hold a conversation w/ her seriously messed up husband. I was like, "Is this chick serious? Can she not see his face?" LOL!! As you said, his face as deformed! Nothing about him looked natural or like a sickness that can be cured w/love and some aspirin! I also noticed the other clerk calling 911! In real life, I'm sure he would have been out of the door when Kit bit into his friend's throat! Just plain silly.
ReplyDeleteI guess Sam's failure to save Kit was supposed to parallel or foreshadow his future failure to save Dean. . . . who knows? It was pretty heavy-handed. Sam's been through this w/Dean before in S3 so I'm not sure why he's acting like this is new territory.
I would like to add my own gripe: Sam doing "secret" research into the MOC. Why? Why is Sam being secretive about his efforts to research the Mark and a possible cure? What is the point of that? Why keep it a secret? It sounds like Carver wants to manufacture tension and problems btw the brothers for no reason. I'm not sure why Dean would care if Sam is researching the Mark. What harm does that cause?
And the audience...well, we are still waiting for a story.
ReplyDeleteIf I could upvote this 1000x, I would. IMO, the season has yet to actually start.
I concluded that the wife was a moron. Again, Tessa, you and I were on the same brain wavelength b/c when she told Sam she was still trying to wrap her mind around monsters (or whatever she said), all I could think was, "Did you forget about your husband? Did you think he looked normal?"
ReplyDeleteMight I just add that Dean would probably welcome Sam being upfront and honest about it, since he knows Sam is doing it anyway. Even if they argued about it, it would serve to bring the MoC forward -- something I think everyone would be happy with.
ReplyDeleteLess harm than Dean not warning Sam about what Cain said .But we must have secrets and tensions .
ReplyDeleteI can't stand the Army guy in this epi....I think his name is Cole? Immediate fast forward!
ReplyDeleteOh, yes, the tension -- a must have. I am baffled as to how Dean can give up and stick his head in the sand until the inevitable happens (the inevitable being that the Mark wants a brother's blood) and not have one thought about the risk to Sam in the scenario the writers are showing. Doesn't sound like the Dean that has been in the series for a decade, so the whole thing makes no sense to me at all. Last season, Dean left because he was "poison" to everyone. Sam is the only thing in the world that means anything to Dean. This season he is under prophesy that his "destiny" is to kill Sam and he does....nothing?? That is why I didn't bring that point up. I don't get it...unless the 'prophesy' is something that escaped the writers attention in their quest to write stories for one-bit characters.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention that they have to think up a conclusion to Crowley's son being in present day. Kind of screwed up the whole Bobby getting his soul back from Crowley thing!
ReplyDeleteThat one is a little tricky. In Weekend at Bobby's Gavin knew that Crowley sold his soul for 3 extra inches. But Gavin didn't find that out until he was brought to the present by Abaddon, because he asked Crowley why he sold his soul. Plus, ghost Gavin looked older/different than the Gavin in present day even though he was about to leave on the trip that he would die on. Basically, I'm not sure that Gavin didn't always come to the present and get sent back at a later date. It's still a possibility.
ReplyDeleteMy guess on that is that Gavin didn't die on the way to America, but dies a few years later, which is why he looks older in "Weekend at Bobby's". I think Rufus even says something about him dying in Massachusetts if you listen carefully. So then Crowley lies and tells Gavin that he dies on the way to America, prompting him to stay in the present day not wanting to go back. Buuuuut then that still doesn't explain why Gavin knows how Fergus sells his soul to become Crowley. Methinks that he does get sent back, but still hates his father for lying to him. *sigh* here is hoping that they will actually have an episode that explains it all. Perhaps Castiel sends him back????? Or my easier, and most likely guess would have to be that the writers just got lazy, and the actor who originally played Gavin wasn't available lol
ReplyDeleteWell again I have to ditto the review. I kept waiting for Sam to tell Cole he was not allowed to call him Sammy, and the Deano was like fingernails on blackboard to me.
ReplyDeletePLEASE tell me that Cole is not going to be the spin-off "hero".
ha, I can get behind this idea. Charlie is down with the Ghostbusters as characters I can NOT stand. Would love to see Benny & Cas in the spin off, not so much Mrs. Tran.
ReplyDeleteIf Sam has any regrets (he never opens his mouth), it's probably about not looking for Dean in Purgatory. Dean's problems with the mark are totally on Dean I'm afraid. I mean, he ran off and got it before Sam had even a chance to get mad about the possession! He wasn't even tricked or anything. And you know, if Dean had apologized for hurting Sam instead of saying he'd do it again, I bet Sam would have forgiven him on the spot. It bugs me when people put all the problems between the bros last year on Sam's shoulders, because Dean is the one who betrayed Sam and lied and lied and lied, practically the whole season.
ReplyDeleteAs for Dean's resigned attitude and telling Sam to strop trying, it reeks of "do as I say, not as I do". Arghhhh! After the possession, Dean should just let Sam try whatever he wants. They have to find a solution because Dean can't be killed and could eventually become a real danger to humans.
I want Mrs Tran and ghost!Kevin to move BACK to the LOL and she can become their Bobby. Remember Kevin talking down the lady MP in 9.02? Well, I personally think NOBODY would argue with Mrs Tran. I would LOVE Mrs Tran manning the phones and helping Kevin decipher stuff.
ReplyDeleteThe actress and the character are AWESOME.
On another site I have been following the ratings, and in the +7s (seven days from live viewing) it goes up to a 1.4 rating. It actually rises above Arrow and that surprises me. So in this case, due to the Empire effect, I will wait for the +7s as giving the "actual" audience.
ReplyDeleteBUT it was disheartening to see it go that low; I think EVERYBODY that was up against that finale took a hit in their ratings.
First Wife was holding a baby the whole time; she was the one who said PTSD.
ReplyDeleteSecond Wife was the one who thought Sam was nuts when he told her about the monsters.
ALSO both guys were active military. They would NOT have been dealing with the VA (THAT upset me 'WAY more than Cole and his "bonding" nicknames with The Brothers Winchester) they got back from a covert mission, BOTH had troubles immediately on a busted mission, they would have been in quarantine while the military figured out why the guy they were rescuing attacked them.
Ginger, the Sam we are seeing this year WOULD do "dark thing" to save Dean. I almost wonder if he would sacrifice a baby or something if he found a spell that he became convinced would work.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't Sam look for the bickering couple from Season 7's Shut Up, Dr Phil? They appeared to be the kind of Witches of the Third Part that Rowena described, the ones who were powerful On Their Own, not thru demons. Not that those two "owe" the Winchesters anything but they did appear to be really resourceful and Sam MIGHT be able to convince them to help. Just a thought.
But I must say, that if killing Cain did not set off a killing spree by Dean, I don't think anything will. Dean is still "controlled" by Sam. "Dean, STOP!" He hands over The First Blade willingly. So maybe the fact that he is being ruled by LOVE rather than LUST is making him stronger in dealing with The First Blade.
This goes back to both Cain's and Dean's deals: NEITHER one of them should have done it because Hell is forever. Cain so loved his brother he MURDERED him to keep him from falling (like Dad's first wife Lillith?) but what does that say about Abel? Cain never described any attempts by him to stop Abel from being led astray.
When Dean made his deal he ALSO put Sam in an untenable position. The reason the CRD gave Dean one whole year was for SAM to stew in the horror of it all.
I do, however, see character growth in that Dean has never thought about doing THAT again; thank the tv gods. (It was interesting that Crowley went to Bobby to make a deal for Death's whereabouts; just a thought, maybe by Season 5 the boys, as The Great Vessels, could not make a deal.)
Question about Mary: I thought the reason Mary was "non-crazy" was because she just got activated? I mean, I don't KNOW, but you're right, every ghost (not the "dead kid" Cole in the Reaper episode -- YET) seems to go crazy because they lose what they were and those they loved. But where did the crazy poltergeist "being" come from? That whole story (and that is 'WAY back in Season 1 -- so much for continuity only being a problem after Kripke) is just verkaakte from the get-go.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Mary was "called back" to protect her sons in some way? I DON'T KNOW and THAT continuity issue bothers me more than some of the LATER continuity issues, because that happens in the beginning of the show when the internal confusion in the story really stands out to me.
Remember Gavin's roommate who walked into the room while Abaddon was retrieving Gavin? That was played by the actor who'd played Gavin in Weekend at Bobby's. That way his name was listed as being in the episode but they could have another actor play the part. Don't ask ME why. I thought, if the guy was still available, why not bring him back?
ReplyDeleteGinger, I love you. That business about the writers and their avatars: if Seasons 1-5 was Kripke writing out his family issues (and I have always felt it would be so much fun to be a fly on the wall for the Kripke Thanksgiving dinner what with absent Dad and asshole older brother whom everybody loved more for "some reason") once we get to Season 7 we begin to get Robbie Thompson and his inner Charlie, Adam Glass and his child Dean (I liked BOTH Bad Boys AND About A Boy but COME ON, Adam, teenagers are NOT the coolest people in the deck) and whoever it is that writes Krissy that Magical Teen Hunter.
ReplyDeleteIt just blows my mind that Travis Wade tried out for Dean and Jensen Ackles tried out for Sam. They would be the right age for the brothers (about four years difference). I did not get Cole was "playing" Dean, but now that you wrote that I see it. Snarky, badass, family man. WOW!
And if you look at it, Dean said what he said to Crowley at the end of The Executioner's Song to get him out of the line of fire. He was saving Crowley's life. I would like him to SOON tell Sam about what Cain said, then Sam could go to Crowley for help (Crowley WAS also witch-trained) and saying, Dean said that to SAVE YOUR LIFE, you big dummy.
ReplyDeleteTessa, I checked Saturday and half of Sunday for this review. You put it up after I gave up checking! Did NOT consider that being on Wednesday it might take more time for you to post.
ReplyDeleteGlad to see it.
Don't agree, I like MOTW episodes. I also like TAW, don't mind him in the PLOT in small doses.
Felt so AWFUL for dead Teaser Lady and guy at the Gas 'n Sip. Agree the other clerk would not have stood there to punch in 911 (in his profession, I bet he has 911 on speed dial, yet we SAW him punch 9-1-1).
Both Kit and first dude were ACTIVE duty; none of this crapola about being on the VA wait list. Secret mission, they had the video: they would have been in quarantine like IMMEDIATELY and doctors would have been trying to figure out the issue.
I don't think this was a Khan worm like the Khan Worm from Mommie Dearest; it was probably a monster that had gone extinct; an earlier relative brought back by Eve. It looked similar but not the same.
I did like the episode, watched it twice more. But understand your pov here.
And actually, I am looking forward to the EVOL nun this week. Like I say, and I say it a LOT, there's tough and there's NUNS. Tough guys who think they are tough run from nuns.
To be fair, Bobby asked to be put down because he didn't like how consumed by revenge he was getting.
ReplyDeleteNo he wasn't. That was a completely different actor that Abaddon killed, he looks nothing like the original Gavin actor. The show is usually pretty good about not recasting human characters; Gavin, Linda Tran and Claire are the only ones that come to mind. It was most likely scheduling, as they tend to be.
ReplyDeleteConsidering Cole was pouring a bucket of water over the stones, can't really see it as a mocking gesture.
ReplyDeleteCole calling Sam Sammy is something that Padalecki, or even Ackles could have easily changed. In fact I believe Jared even got annoyed the first time Cole called him Sammy (unscripted), Travis Wade explained his reasoning for it, so you gotta assume J2 are okay with it, because again it's seems like one of those things the two have the clout to change, in the script.
So his absence is justifiable in that if he's there, he heals Cole and then Kit and then everyone twiddles their thumbs for the rest of the show. Personally, I think that if Cas is a regular he needs to be human and no backsies, but as I said, the writers think he's boring that way. He's more boring with powers and dealing with Claire, but they don't see that.You may know more about Cas' current state than I do. I honestly can't keep tabs of whether he has powers or not. I know he blasted a door a few episodes back, but doesn't that cost grace or something, which he's running out of?
ReplyDeleteAnd he's boring all right, but more so when he's on his own. When with the Winchesters, and in the hands of a good writers, he's usually pretty good, like when we saw him in the last episode. My suspicion however is that the writers are as confused about him as I am so they play it safe which make for a bland mix of not-human, not-angel with flat personality and no logical background (where does he sleep, how does he earn money, how does he occupy his time when he's not with the Winchester?) Either that or, after Edlund left, there's no one who cares about him enough to flesh out his new story and character.
What I meant by unjustifiably absent though is that, in the past, at least they made an effort to explain why he wasn't there. In season 5 he was looking for God, in 6 he was in cahoots with Crowley, in 7 he was dead, in 8 in purgatory and then under Naomi's spell. Now it's like they've given up and are hand-waving it expecting us to do the same.
Gotta say, I find Cole 100% more interesting than Castiel in the last 4 seasons.
ReplyDeleteCas hasn't been an interesting character for like 4 seasons. He's boring as an angel and as a human. Mostly because Misha Collins appears to be sleepwalking at this point; I mean all he does is pretty much tilt his head, and squint. That's his range for Castiel now.
ReplyDeleteI fail to see how Jemma was a moron. Why because she was showing concern for her husband? She wanted to help him?
ReplyDeleteIn a blink and you miss it moment, Dean said the idea was to get the worm to go for a more hydrated body.I guess that makes sense although I wished they'd written the scene in a way that it was clearer and didn't look like they wanted to highlight Cole's courage and excellent resistance instead.I think that was supposed be the parallel between Sam and the wife, that both are in denial of how dangerous the person they love is. But with these guys, who the heck knows.Oh, your'e totally on target with that. In fact, the wife's insane behavior of trying to "reason" with her crazy husband was supposed to mimick Sam's insistent to stay with and save Dean. Except, once again, they forget that something that applies to the brothers doesn't necessarily work with normal folks. Sam is a hunter. He knows what he is getting into. If he is keeping fate in Dean and trying to save him it's because he knows enough about the Mark, and his own skills, to know his chances of survival. The wife didn't even know what was going on with her husband yet she was standing there walking to a man with the face of The Thing and playing the believer role.
ReplyDeleteNow I understand your unjustifiably. Yeah an explanation would have been nice. "He went to check up on Claire. Hannah needed him in Heaven." Sam texting him to keep looking for an MOC cure because Dean is dragging him on a case and he can't right now. They could have spared a moment to explain where Cas was.
ReplyDeleteAs to Cas's grace state, I THINK that Cas is currently operating on the grace that Crowley gave him and we haven't heard or seen anything that says it's waning. I'm sure it will and then Cas will have to angst, YET AGAIN, about not wanting to take the grace from another angel. Not that he shouldn't angst, but he's done that already. Move on.
Misha Collins is an excellent actor with a lot of range. The material given to him however is the problem. He's the only reason why Castiel hasn't fallen to the levels of Charlie and Cole. We should be grateful for him, Jared and Jensen keeping this show still interesting.
ReplyDeleteHe did. But now like I said, all he basically does is tilt his head to the side and squint. It's not the material, it's that he appears to give very little shit at this point, and I'd wager only sticks around because of the cult of personality he's built up with his fans and that probably can't get work elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteHMM. When I read the cast list I looked up the actor from Weekend at Bobby's and he was listen on the later episode too. I didn't really SEE his face that clearly (it was clearly a throw-away part). If you say it wasn't him I don't doubt you, he may have been stunt demon #3.
ReplyDeleteI want to say one thing: I think Crazy Cas was the best Cas for show purposes. He wasn't human and depowered, he wasn't an angel and superpowered, he was a superpowered angel who had to be convinced to do anything (I follow the bees, have some honey) that was helpful to Sam and Dean.
ReplyDeleteI don't know WHY they did not find some way to leave him Superpowered but a Little CRAZY.
Sorry to say Tessa, I have found Cole very appealing and interesting to watch. I love his back story which feels similar to the pilot in many ways. He's lost his father to something supernatural, ring any bells? He has an axe to grind, and get off his chest. I think Travis Aaron Wade has been an amazing addition to the team and the boys seem to get on with him, and to me he fits in with the balance of the show. I have not liked many characters that Jeremy Carver has introduced apart from Kevin. Cole is superb material with history to follow and delve into further. The boys need guest stars to bounce off. They are part of the story whether we like them or not. They are the shows bread and butter as one producer said moons ago. We need them to move the story along and gel with the leads. The work load has been hard for Jared and Jensen and in the past they have asked for less time on screen. So these gaps need to be filled in with secondary support cast members. In the past casting has got it very wrong on some occasions. But this time, I strongly feel Cole is a superb character. I have fallen head over heals for the guy, and I don't say that often!
ReplyDeleteLove Bella xx
I understand what you are saying (see my Crazy Cas comment above) but saying it's a "cult of personality" is perhaps a little harsh on his fans who have loved him for six years now.
ReplyDeleteI think the show itself did a disservice to Mischa Collins' character by playing up all the "Castiel loves Dean the way he loves/loved God" which came off as Castiel wants to **** Dean because we are humans and can only understand human love. Mischa did what the direction told him to do.
I think they went too far into the "love that dare not speak its name" area and can't figure out HOW to show that Castiel loves Dean because he was CREATED to love and NEEDS to love without making it into interspecies LUV.
JMO. I have loved Mischa since the first time I saw him on a NYPD: BLUE episode.
Take for example, people scream at the writers about supposed queerbaiting, but Misha doesn't get called out for the shit he pulls at cons. In fact he gets lauded for his jokes about it. Or Jared jokes that Misha is a woman, Jared gets called a misogynist. Misha says he fucked Jareds wife, nada. There's a level of hypocrisy, and yes a cult of personality; where because he has a charity, and is involved in LGBT causes, his bullshit gets a pass.
ReplyDeleteThe show didn't go into that "love that dare not speak its name" area, because if you go on Tumblr, all the Destiel stuff pretty mucha mounts to out of context gifs of Dean and Cas in the same room, usually manipulated in some way.
Hellboy, the show definitely did. I got laid off and kept waking up early and began watching TNT's episodes. I did not begin reading online stuff for about a year. The first time I noticed it was in Heaven and Hell. Dean and Anna kiss. Castiel looks at them and looks away; MY first thought was that Castiel had the hots for Anna. Really. Then I began to notice the SHOW blocked Castiel as standing too close to Dean, he always seemed to "beam in" about 6" or so from Dean. THAT was direction/blocking. Castiel was constantly looking at Dean's lips while Dean was talking. I got the awkward with humans trope. I did. But it was part of the "too-close" thing. It wasn't until quite a while later I took myself to the internets (away to the internets) and read about the controversy. A writer I respected put it FOR ME as the best way: celestial being, created to love God, transferred his devotion to a human. And that works for me. I do NOT at all believe that all of this is a shared hallucination or something. The audience (some, not all, I agree) was seeing a something specific that was put out there by SHOW DECISION.
ReplyDeleteOne way Tessa mentioned in the review is that the show has become unbalanced because Sam and Dean have no friends or allies. It was stupid to kill Bobby. I liked Bobby. I liked Garth. I "want" them to have friends because it is DUMB that guys in their 30s have no allies in the fight against evil. That's why I said bring on Linda Tran to run the phones.
I believe you think it is all projection on lots of peoples' part here. My husband for instance said I have no real idea how men in war-time (and this has been war-time for the entire show) bond. Their buddies ARE their BROS and it is a love I who have never been in combat don't really understand. So my husband agrees with you.
So I am not discounting your ideas here, I just wish the show did not feel it HAS to separate Castiel from Sam and Dean (especially Dean).
Yes. But in all those "too close" instances, Dean has shown complete discomfort. Even when Cas says he'll watch over him as he sleeps, Dean is skeeved by the idea. There was an innocence/naivete to Cas and finally being around humanity, it wasn't meant to be sexual or romantic.
ReplyDeleteHe should have remained crazy in Purgatory, had him go full Col. Kurtz/Apocalypse Now. Made himself a celestial king in the land of abominations, that would have been fun to see.
ReplyDeleteHer reaction wasn't in line with the reactions of a sane human being. Showing that she loved her husband and was concerned for him was the intent of the writer, but one should not defy common sense to drive a story or the character would seem like a moron. I love my family members too and would want to help them if they're in trouble, but if I saw their faces look like zombies and hear them make growling noises the first thing I'd do is to leave the room before calling 911. And then when a guy shows up who seems to know what to do and saves my life, I wouldn't argue with him about what's happening.
ReplyDeleteI think the show itself did a disservice to Mischa Collins' character by playing up all the "Castiel loves Dean the way he loves/loved God" which came off as Castiel wants to **** Dean because we are humans and can only understand human love.This is my biggest beef with the way the Dean/Castiel relationship was dealt with. I loved the idea of Castiel the angel losing God and replacing him with Dean. It reminded me of the powerful guardian Gods protecting ancient warriors that were a staple of some of the old Japanese fables.
ReplyDeleteOf course fans had to take the idea and turn it into Cas and Dean rolling in the sack, simplifying and IMO devaluing the relationship. But I was willing to let it be since everyone was allowed to enjoy the show the way they wanted. Except with it came the hate, the slandering from both sides, TPTB making statements, Jensen getting mad and saying there was not much of a relationship between the two and that he and Misha didn't play them 'that way,' Carver making sure he kept them as separated as possible....
There used to be something there that I cherished, after I lost hope in the Sam and Dean relationship. Now both are a memory from the past.
You are definitely right about the no personality, Tessa. It looks like to me he is trying to channel JA's Dean Winchester, but he's not the actor JA is and it's not working.Seems like that to me too, and gosh is he failing because he doesn't understand the fine nuances JA puts in his contained performance.
ReplyDeleteOh, I think Sam will do...something. But let's see? Dean is sleeping. Dean is eating. Dean isn't drinking. Dean is looking at women. Dean is spouting pop culture. Dean isn't scratching his itchy tattoo. Hmmm? I am not seeing one thing wrong with Dean at the moment, so why is Sam worrying and giving pinched eyebrow, silent looks.
ReplyDeleteMy point - the show isn't showing the story.
But I was talking about how CASTIEL was behaving in the moment that Mischa Collins was BLOCKED in scenes with Dean.
ReplyDeleteOF COURSE Dean was discomforted: Jensen has said he is playing a heterosexual. AND he felt he needed to keep telling Castiel "personal space" and I cannot for the life of me figure out WHY Castiel supposedly could NOT understand "personal space." I mean he's a celestial being who is omniscient, he SHOULD have understood that DEAN was uncomfortable with him popping in "too close."
Tessa, where do you think the Sam/Dean relationship went wrong? For me, it was the FIRST episode of Season 4 when Dean showed up at Sam's hotel room (and Ruby was there) and lied to Dean's face about Ruby. (I have always believed that Dean did NOT really remember Hell until "Lillith" came and jogged his memory in the Ghost Fever episode. So he wasn't lying. He came back relatively "himself" in 4.01 but was a WRECK after Ghost Fever.) My opinion is Dean has "forgiven" Sam for choosing a demon over him. But he never forgot it. And THAT is what damaged the relationship. I always found it hard to believe that Dean never blasted Sam for what he did in Season 4: I gave my life, my soul for YOU and THIS is what you do with my gift, you DRINK DEMON BLOOD. But he never said that, and I found that remarkable.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, where did it go sideways to your mind?
I haven't liked Cas since the end of S4, and I'm with you that I think MC's range is very limited. I agree that he has had a lousy story and lousy material this season, and no purpose for several seasons now. I only liked the character when he is with Dean, and that's when I feel MC steps up his acting.
ReplyDelete"I think the show itself did a disservice to Mischa Collins' character by playing up all the "Castiel loves Dean the way he loves/loved God" which came off as Castiel wants to **** Dean because we are humans and can only understand human love."
ReplyDeleteI liked that and thought it made sense story-wise, because Dean replaced God to Cas when Cas lost faith in "his father." IMO, a certain segment of the fandom with a political agenda took it further than that.
I am not arguing with you, because it is what it is and the result of that is that Cas and Dean cannot be seen in the same scene anymore and, for me, it ruined something I enjoyed in the show.
For all she knew her husband was just severely injured, and there were no growling noises coming from him, he just looked really messed up. It's hardly a turn the other way and run scenario. Good on you for being quicker to believe monster exist and one is living in your husband, but generally speaking, I think most people would be in a state of shock and denial about that sort thing for a bit.
ReplyDeleteAnd you know it's easy to say what anyone should or would do in a hypothetical situation, it's another to actually do. A lot of people freeze up or go into shock when encountered with violent/chaotic situations. It's like blaming a victim for being paralyzed with fear, and not doing what you would do in the same situation.
I am cracking up! The Charlie Effect --- oh, good one. The Charlie story. It may happen. If anything even close to it does, I may buy a ticket to L.A. and do something really terrible to a few of those hacks. Missing out your lovely reviews would totally make it worth it.
ReplyDeleteMy theory on Glass' kid worship is that he was NOT one of the jocks in the locker room in high school and he was scared deeply because of that. (BTW, as I understand it, Krissy is an avatar for Glass' niece.)
ReplyDeleteI hated Bad Boys, because Glass was so prevalent. I thought About a Boy was okay for a one-off. Dylan did an okay job, but I loved the girl. I wouldn't watch it a second time, because I have no interest in spending an hour watching teenagers.
I'm not Tessa, but I think that the relationship was destroyed with the demon deal. Sam was never the same after he came back and that's evident during season 3, especially Mystery Spot and after. It was his worst nightmare come true. Being left alone to fight the demons knowing that his brother was in Hell. Think about it.
ReplyDeleteYes, Dean gave his life and soul, but it certainly wasn't for Sam. Sam himself would have never wanted it. The Deal put both Sam and Dean right where Heaven and Hell wanted them and destroyed both, with Sam ending up in the Cage instead of Heaven. Dean himself talked about his deal being selfish and he didn't care.
Just another way of looking at it.
I completely agree with this.
ReplyDeleteYou're right there. I don't know if Dean is using the tried-and-true "pushing it down and going on" method used in previous seasons OR has truly gotten control over his urges here. IF Dean hadn't gone thermonuclear on Randy and the Thugs' asses we wouldn't know there even WAS a problem.
ReplyDeleteSo the Show is not telling us WHY Sam appears to be going thermonuclear on the topic of the Mark himself. Just that he's worried.
You know, come to think of it, is it possible Sam is so obsessed with The Mark and maybe THAT'S why he did not tie Kit down strongly enough? Because it didn't even appear that Kit BROKE the rope, he just seemed to slip out of it.
Well, it's an idea for why Sam MIGHT feel more guilty than usual re Kit.
I agree with you there 1000 Million Percent. They COULD have had Sam asking Castiel about getting too close to Dean, explaining everybody has a concept of personal space, and that he KNOWS Dean discussed it with him, WHY is he still getting too close? Just ask. And have Castiel explain something about angelic nature. Probably any little bit would have worked.
ReplyDeleteThe two actors have such a chemistry the show is LACKING from their interactions now missing.
BUT in About a Boy they were teenagers in adult bodies and did not ACT like teenagers to me. I mean, JT was a slobbering mess when Dean and Tina met up with in the cells. BUT Dean and Tina acted like maturely (I especially like Tina protecting Dean's get-away; she couldn't have known that Dean Winchester could/would come back for her). So it had a whole different vibe.
ReplyDeleteI also liked Bad Boys, but I want to mention that Thanksgiving Dinner at Glass' house must be a mess TOO because all the John-hate in that episode got on my nerves. It makes NO SENSE whatsoever that John would have abandoned Dean to "the system" even to teach him a lesson. Dean needed to be watching CAREFULLY over 5yo Sammy (haha for that last scene).
That is a good way of looking at it. I certainly don't/wouldn't blame Sam for deep anger and resentment at Dean for making that deal. Sam's desperation all Season 3 and his devastation after Dean died (really stellar acting by both actors, I wonder if they go to classes to learn how to "die" realistically with a camera 3 inches from their face) both got to me.
ReplyDeleteIt WOULD be natural for Sam to let his resentment out in Season 4. You know, if Kripke had wanted us to be sympathetic to Sam in the buildup to the murder of the nurse (something we never saw him tell ANYBODY) he could have had Sam TELL Dean, what you did to me wasn't fair, I understood/tried to understand how you felt when you figured out DAD sold his soul for YOU. YOU of ALL PEOPLE should have known how I would feel. And Dean really would have had no answer.
Good point.
Another point: watching that scene again, when Dean sells his soul (well done acting-wise), I got to thinking that Bobby should NEVER have left Dean. He should've hit him over the head or drugged him, burned Sam's body, and said I Knew Where This Was Heading and I could not let you do it. Dean would never have forgiven him, but I don't know HOW but somebody (like Michael) would have raised him from the dead without all this sturm and drang. Michael and Lucifer were working parallel tracks to get to the Apocalypse. Again, however, THAT wasn't "love" love, it was "need" love that led Dean to do it. You are right.
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to apologize. People are allowed to like things I don't and vise versa. That's the nature of entertainment. However:He's lost his father to something supernatural, ring any bells?Yes, a million bells in fact. Seems like everyone and their neighbor loses their father on this show and plans the rest of their lives based on that experience. If not they lose their wife, sister, kid. For once I want someone to answer the question, "Why did you become a hunter?" with, "Cause I liked to."
ReplyDeleteTo me Cole is the poor man's version of Dean. He's the same age, acts the same way (only without JA's nuances) and has the same backstory. Why do we need the same thing twice? The boys need guest stars to bounce off.Read Gripe #1. Plus, they've got enough guest stars this season to last them another season. At this point they need to shut everyone out and deal with their own story. We've had enough distractions.We need them to move the story along and gel with the leads.Except we don't need them. they don't move the story along, they high jack its time, and most of them (with the exception of Jody) don't gel with the leads. Again, at this point in the season they are just excess baggage.The work load has been hard for Jared and Jensen and in the past they have asked for less time on screen. So these gaps need to be filled in with secondary support cast members.Sure, bring on Castiel and Crowley and give them decent stories that don't involve surrogate daughters and estranged mothers and Jared and Jensen can have all the time off they need.
Listen, I'm not saying there should be no guest stars or MoTW episodes. But I've explained it many times in these reviews. These don't seem like characters who are there to aid the main story. They are more like auditions to find someone for the spin-off. Cole seems to be a front runner since he got a second audition with more focus. Whatever, give him his own show and take him off this one so I, who don't find him that hot, would't have to see him while those who do like him could watch him there (and please add Charlie and Clair to the mix too.)
Always nice seeing you here. ;)
I checked Saturday and half of Sunday for this review. You put it up after I gave up checking! Did NOT consider that being on Wednesday it might take more time for you to post.Sorry about that. The only way I could let folks know was through my Tumblr and Twitter. I posted on both on Wednesday but I was anticipating some would still not get the notice. At least you're hear which is good.Felt so AWFUL for dead Teaser LadyThat scene really disturbed me. It was also confusing since the rest of the infected acted like brainless monsters but that first one looked like the guy planned it and was executing the kill with precision. Guess should have added that to the gripes, but I might have wanted to forget about that awful scene.And actually, I am looking forward to the EVOL nun this week.Me too. She gave me Abaddon vibes.
ReplyDeleteI disagree, I dont think Dean cares if Crowley lives or dies and I think you read way too much into Dean's dismissal of Crowley at the end of episode 14. He doesnt trust him and he it came across more as Dean laying it on the line for Crowley that HE doesnt matter (unlike Sam and Cas). If Dean even feels an iota of sadness in killing Crwoley than it would be like him shitting on the memory of all the people Crowley has killed/gotten killed in his quest for self preservation (Jo, Ellen, Sarah), what about what he did to Bobby? Does Dean not remeber those things because Crowley was a bit nice to him and they were all buddy buddy while Dean was feeling guilty about getting Kevin killed and then hung out when he was a demon? Worse of all Dean saves Crwoley but cant even be bothered to tell SAM that he might kill him in a MOC fuelled rage?
ReplyDeleteSam isnt exactly hiding it though is he and its research its not doing any harm not like Dean not telling Sam about Cain's prophesy could.
ReplyDeleteWhen Seasons 6 and 8 were running, Crowley WAS being the worst of the worst (I don't think he got Jo and Ellen killed, he didn't know the Colt would not work and they signed up for the job; it's Sarah I hate him for, Sarah and Wendigo guy and Cupcake lady and then JODY and all the put Kevin thru) but then they write him as semi-regretful after his "cure" and I agree with you 100% nay 1000% that SO WHAT? He's a damn demon and he wanted up the food chain in Hell and right now he DESERVES to be king of Hell. So I see your point.
ReplyDeleteI think Show overplayed "Lonely Girl" aspect. I think for Crowley, whatever it is he feels for Dean, is the closest thing he ever felt to ANYTHING for another human being. I don't think he "cared" about Gavin, we haven't seen him looking in or looking up Gavin wherever he sent him. Everything Crowley does is for his OWN feelings. And, hell to the YES, he manipulated Dean six ways to Sunday to take The Mark on.
So I see your point, agree; I thought/think Show was going for a "save" aspect here, but it could just be getting Crowley out of the way is to stop him from following Cain's list.
Do you REALLY think Sam and Castiel need to be told they are at danger of being killed by Dean if he gets his rage on? Dean was trying to kill Sam in 10.03, and only Castiel's full-on angel-dom stopped them both. So while Dean should SAY what Cain told him, it didn't seem like a prophecy to me, it seemed like a recitation of what Cain THOUGHT would happen. He didn't say I am killing you to save you from the terrible loss you'll feel after you kill the two people you love in all the world.
At least that's how it seemed to me. MOC = Kill your brother. BUT I also think you have a good point. I don't understand why Dean didn't tell them. But I also don't think either one of them would give up on Dean to "save" themselves, the would keep looking for ways to save Dean/be there for Dean anyway.
You know, the first episode I watched was "Sex and Violence" and I was wondering where Sam's anger and cruel words came from when he was infected by the siren. It seemed to me he was lashing out and mad at Dean for being in Hell in the first place. Later after I caught up with the whole series I realised that Sam was mad at Dean for the Deal and was sure it would be addressed in later eps in season 4 or season 5. But, alas.
ReplyDeleteIt's as if the writers don't want us to sympathise with Sam and I don't get it. Last year all they had to do was bring up Sam's history with possession but we got those clunky statements (the Purge) that everybody hate instead.
lol
ReplyDeleteTessa, where do you think the Sam/Dean relationship went wrong?For me it was the first episode of season 6, when Sam came back and wasn't Sam. God was I looking forward to that reunion, even more than the season 4 reunion after Dean came back from hell. At least there were some emotions there, some passion. This one was Dean grabbing and hugging Sam and Sam just looking bored. I was confused. Of course at the time I didn't know Sam was supposed to be soulless. But that storyline pretty much killed the brotherly love for me. Sure the demon deal and Sam and Dean being at odds was rough, but at least both of them were making choices for each other. Even Sam going off the rails in season 4 was because of his grief over Dean. I was fine with that. What I wasn't fine with was Sam letting a vampire suck the blood out of Dean while he stood around and smirked. That was where it all died for me. :(
ReplyDeleteI actually hated Crazy Cas. I felt that Misha was (1) just playing himself and (2) the writers could not think of anything to give MC to do.
ReplyDeleteIt was still teenagers I was seeing on my screen. I liked the young girl plqyint Tina, because she was "acting" and shows promise of real talent; whereas, Dylan was simply mimicking.
ReplyDeleteThere, again, Dylan did a decent job in Bad Boys, but it was all Adam Glass and a period in his fantasy adolescence, not Dean Winchester, not John Winchester, and not Sam Winchester. I liked the housekeeper in that episode and was glad to see her again She played the neighbor in Family Remains who gave Dean a picture.
From what I can see up to this point, Sam still has control over Dean. When Sam tells Dean to stop or stand down, or puts a warning hand on his arm, Dean stops. At this point, I would have to say that the prophesy means nothing more than Sam's research (that being faux tension) at this point, since the power of love seems to be stronger than the MoC's pull - whatever that pull may be, since nothing is being shown about that as of yet.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that Dean doesn't give one rat's tail about Crowley. Other than being there for the Js to have time off, Dean should have killed Crowley years ago.
ReplyDeleteI hope to never see either one of them again. Kevin went back and forth from hysterical teenager to super smart, awesome guy. Mrs. Tran, IMO, was just someone there. I never warmed up to her character.
ReplyDeleteJulia Greer also responded to my comment. And she put it Dean's Deal. How could ANYBODY live with what Dean had done? Dean was wreck because John did the same thing (and I also think John was, like Dean, motivated by love and regret) to him.
ReplyDeleteI think Sam felt like "kid brother" but an equal partner in their Hunt before that. His desperation to save Dean was truly horrific, especially in No Rest for the Wicked. He was hysterical, begging. (That scene was so well acted it always stands out in my mind as like THE BEST OF THE BEST.)
I agree that for the audience Sam's flat affect in Season 6 was disconcerting (TNT just began running Season 6 today and I saw it, Dean hugging him, rubbing his back In A Manly Fashion.) And that brings me back to an issue with the SHOW: we get SO MUCH of Dean's POV and almost none of Sam's. Now we SAW Sam going nutzoid in Mystery Spot. And his joy when Dean was really back alive. But I can't honestly think of too many episodes that give Sam's POV.
So I think Season 3 should have given us glimmers of a very reasonable Sam anger at Dean for not considering what Dean's Deal was doing/going to do to him. He did yell at Dean about trying to save himself. If Dean had done things, maybe Sam would not have begun to trust Ruby because she was the only one offering Sam a way to save his brother (and Sam NEEDED to save his brother). Season 4, when Dean came back, Sam was already INTO Ruby's "help" (yikes, which was worse, the banging a coma victim or drinking said possessed coma victim's blood, let me think) and getting angrier and angrier as part of his addiction.
I did not see Season 6 in real time, so watching TNT, I knew Sam was Soulless like 3 days from the premiere! And you know, I liked Samuel the first couple of episodes he was in. HATED the rest of the family (Gwen acted too much like a tough girl wannabe to me).
Oh, my computer went down for 12 hrs, just went up, so I am now responding. I would have responded this morning, but as I was starting to reply to emails it went down. Pissed the HELL out of me.
Now I never thought of that. The first episode I saw was When the Levee Breaks, and THAT is not an episode to get a sympathetic vibe/POV for Sam at all. You are right about Sex and Violence (talking about POV): Dean was talking about Sam lying and his association with Ruby the Demon Bitch and Sam was talking about Dean's BOOHOO suffering in Hell. THAT episode was not designed to make Sam sympathetic in the least.
ReplyDeleteI really like conversing with you, Ginger, because we have such different feelings. It's good to examine another way to look at things. I personally LOVED Mrs Tran as she was portrayed in Season 8. I LIKED how tough as nails she was (like when she got the anti-demon tattoo), matter of fact 8.02 was one of my favorite episodes. I also liked how Dean was PTSD-ing all over the place and she just did not back down or anything; she "saw" it but she "ignored" it.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was realistic for Kevin to be a mess, what his life had been, his dreams, and what it became. Most of the time he had a fairly realistic take on what needed to be done. They should have moved him to the LOL as soon as they found it.
i did like Godstiel Cas and would have liked for the season to be the Winchesters against Cas...for at least a half of a season anyway.
ReplyDeleteWe all like different things about the show and read it differently. I'm kind of a black and white person in the things that I like -- but that is not limited to only seeing the Winchesters. I realize the importance of support characters, but feel they should be used to actually support the Winchesters and their story.
ReplyDeleteBesides being a teenager (and you know my feelings about watching teenagers), the Dean Winchester I know would not have 'adopted' Kevin as part of his family. To me, Dean would have clearly taken on the responsibility for Kevin, because he feels responsible for everybody, but he would not have accepted him as another brother. To me, Sam is the only family Dean has.
I accept that after John died, Dean would look to Bobby as a surrogate for John, because Bobby was one of the old guard hunters and Dean was still at a stage where he was not so sure of himself stepping up to 'hunter royalty' and taking his place on the throne. Even there, though, he didn't adopt 'Rufus' as a family member. I loved Rufus, and I loved the written relationship Dean had with Rufus. It was a believable "frictional' relationship that showed mutual respect and gave insight into what Dean could turn out to be, except that Dean has Sam to keep him from going there.
My problem with Cole is that the writers are trying to show this 'frictional' relationship between Cole and the Winchesters, except that Cole isn't even on the JV team yet and the Winchesters are playing in the Olympics. I can't buy into it -- right along with Jody, Donna, CHARLIE, Krissy being instal-hunters.
Kevin had a good and legitimate-to-the-plot death. I hope they don't keep bringing him back like they do with Bobby. Every time Bobby is brought back, it diminishes his poignant death scene -- and since Mrs. Tran's character has Kevin tied to her apron strings (just like Jo was tied to Ellen's), her purpose in the show is over, IMO.
See, for me it is sort of a huge plot Problem that the Winchesters have no allies. They SHOULD run into people (like the two Hunters who died in 9.02 or the chicka in 9.02) or a place like The Roadhouse SHOULD exist. I think the show took a wrong turn when they got rid of all the side players and their stories. I would have LOVED to watched Bobby and Rufus mix it up, That was a truly TRULY believable complex back story for Bobby AND Rufus. And the show made a strategic error: having no other characters leaves us with the leads front and center ALL the time and they just need some time off. So now we get not-fully-realized yet characters like Cole as major parts of a story-line and the whole thing does not feel "organically" like we should care. And I like Cole, and LIKED Jody and Donna, and the way they are being used here is ok by me. BUT I have read plenty of complaints of them "taking over the episode/show" and I think it boils down to Not Enough Back story (Weekend at Bobby's was on TNT yesterday and THAT is a successful side- character episode in spades.) so we don't CARE enough about the these characters.
ReplyDeleteCarver appears to being making an effort to re-populate the SPNverse. My problem is with the type of characters that have been conceived. His stable of writers seriously lack a talent for characterization and, just as important, character motivations. I loved Rufus, and I loved Travis, the hunter in Metamorphis. I did not like hunter Daisy Duke. I don't like goofballs like Sheriff Donut. I used to like Jody Mills, but I could care less about her need to be a mother to anybody, Winchesters included.
ReplyDeleteThe Winchesters should be recognized as top-shelf hunters in the hunting community by now, and all we get is one-sided phone calls showing the Winchesters talking to supposed hunters.
The problem as I see it is that we are getting backstories for every one-bit character ever used, and those stories have nothing to do with the Winchesters. Their stories are not adding one thing to the Winchester story and the Winchesters are learning nothing from those characters perils. Do I care that Jody adopted a teenager? What has that got to do with the Winchesters? Do I care if Sheriff Donut hasn't gotten over her ex? I am wondering why she just doesn't quit eating donuts, if she was so traumatized by it. Do I care if Kate was lonesome, turned her sister, and then had to take care of that problem? No, I don't. Do I care if Cole thinks he knows everything and is still driven by revenge to find the monster that killed his father? What do the Winchesters get out of that story? Nothing. What do I get out of his story? Pissed off that he is written so as to push the Winchesters into being stage props to his story, that's what.
It is unrealistic to think any show can be put on without side characters or that the Js have to be in every scene. Support characters normally add depth to the leads and to their stories, and I often find that I like support characters better than the lead in other shows. That is not what is happening with SPN these days. The Winchesters are, more often than not, stage furniture or make cameo appearances in other characters stories.
I thought some more about your comment here and I have a question that has bothered me forEVER: WHY was Sam so adamant about hunting with Dean in Season 6? I just never got it. Sam came back, expected Dean to hunt with him, but was just HUH when Dean said Ben and Lisa (notice it was always BEN and Lisa, not Lisa and Ben?) were his life now, Episode two he calls Dean about 'shifter baby as soon as he gets him. I THINK part of it was that Samuel was uneasy about hunting with Soulless!Sam as we saw in Unforgiven. But that still doesn't explain to me WHY Sam wanted to be with Dean. Especially after it appeared to me that Sam had spent a year dissing Dean's skills to the Campbells. If Sam KNEW there was something wrong with him, WHY bring back Dean? (I also think Samuel KNEW Dean would not get with the Alpha program; if a human was in danger Dean would have cut down ANY Alpha to save ANY human. Samuel ran through the "Campbells" pretty quickly, didn't he? Samuel and Sam did not care about collateral damage.) I think when Sam first came back in Swan Song he "remembered" feeling/caring about Dean but did not feel it.
ReplyDeleteSO why did Sam want Dean back? 'Cos I got nothing.
Sam said it himself in the narrative:
ReplyDeleteSam: No, Dean. I'm telling you, it's just better with you around. That's all.
Sam went to Dean, because he knew the djinn would go there next and he was after the djinn. Once he reunited with Dean, he just instinctively knew that things were better with he and Dean hunting together. It wasn't that he felt anything for Dean; more like it's in his DNA to be with Dean.
The bigger question is why did Sampa Campbell want Dean to be with them. so badly. It's a question the show set up, but never answered. Samuel was pretty adamant about getting Dean in with the rest of the family, even though he didn't think Dean was much of a hunter, didn't trust Dean to go along with his plans, and said he didn't know him. The writers skipped over the reason for Sampa to want Dean and went straight into making Dean a foiler to Sampa's plans.
I was looking forward to meeting the Campbells and; once again, like Dean's PSTD story, the Sword of Michael story, the vessel for Michael story, the Righteous Man story, the MoL legacy, the Purgatory story, and now the MoC story, all the great potential was squandered in the name of "feelings" and "angst."
I think I agree with everything said here.
ReplyDelete1. I think Dean drinking while watching Cole is simpler than what you made it out to be - Dean wasn't supposed to dehydrate himself, but he couldn't let the infected guy out of his sight either. I think that was all there was to the actual scene - though it did feel a little like a taunt. In fact, the thought I had then was that this was something that could actually make the episode better - Dean subconsciously baiting Cole under the effect of the Mark. He doesn't tie him up (even when Cole requests it personally), drinks water in front of him, looks away when answering a call - almost as if he wants Cole to lose it and attack him just so he could have an excuse to kill him. But instead, all it looks like is Dean was holding the idiot ball.
2. The problem with Sam feeling "guilty" about not being able to save Kit - which, I'm sure, was supposed to be a not-so-subtle metaphor about his inability to save Dean - was that Sam pretty much seemed ready to kill Kit from the get-go. He gave Cole the "he might not be himself anymore" talk and brought up the "kill-him" solution later. That sounds pretty much like him being okay with his personal limitations.
When Cole was introduced, I thought his possible storyline had a lot of potential. But now, I think they've screwed up the character royally with all the plot-holes.
ReplyDelete1. The guy looks (and is) older than Jensen - how are we supposed to believe that he is just 24 years old.
2. The Winchesters have been the subject of nation-wide manhunts many times now - and they have been declared dead. How is this guy, supposedly obsessed with finding Dean, unaware of all that? Shouldn't he have given up his search long ago because his quarry was 'dead'?
3. His vendetta was baseless after all - Dean did the right thing in killing his father and he was simply wasting his time in what he thought of as a righteous cause. A little complexity or a shade of gray would've been useful here - maybe his father was a reformed monster or maybe he was possessed (which would've led the brothers to re-examine their policy of indiscriminate demon slaughter) or maybe Dean had made a mistake in identifying his dad as a monster or something to make Winchesters pause and stop Cole from giving up after just an explanation.
4. No impact on the story at all. Really, take Cole away and the rest of the story could be readjusted without any major changes. In my opinion, recurring stars need to be meaningful and significant - which is why Bobby, Castiel and John were so important. Cole isn't.
Seems like everyone and their neighbor loses their father on this show
ReplyDeleteand plans the rest of their lives based on that experience. If not they
lose their wife, sister, kid. For once I want someone to answer the
question, "Why did you become a hunter?" with, "Cause I liked to."
There was Eliot Ness from 'Time after Time'. I don't think Ash lost anyone either. And do the hunters raised in the life count?
Well, I agree but you gotta start somewhere. Bobby was supposed to be a one-off (I have been told) and goddammit I want them to bring Rufus back from the dead. I don't care HOW. Steven Williams was awesome in the part (Bobby, you got a shovel) and i wanted him and Bobby just snarking at each other in the background.
ReplyDeleteI liked Donna from the get-go. REALLY like Donna. Don't NEED her with Jody, but OK with them.
I actually WOULD like to see Chrissie and her cohorts. I bet that girl Dean saved from being a vamp is still staying with them and Aiden gets to preen like a peacock over his three gorgeous roommates. It's been two or three years now. I "think" they would be hunting, but maybe not. But still bonded on the tragedies of their families.
Would hot shorts girl have a few miles on her and come on to Dean?
Like I said, this is a tactical issue for the show, they NEED characters to populate the landscape of the show.
But we agree that maybe the writing staff isn't being given the right directions.
I'm guessing he is still hiding the first blade that Dean gave him or trying to look for the cure.
ReplyDeleteGinger, I saw it yesterday, and I heard it that way too. But once we get into the Soulless issue it doesn't make sense. Not really.
ReplyDeleteI TRY to figure out what Soullessness is, for me it is lack of any emotional connection. Sort of like Ausbergism but more. Sam can function with people but only for a little while. In the early part of the season he is mimicking human interactions and compassion when he is talking to witnesses. KNOWING what we learn later I can see it NOW.
It would have meant more to me if Sam had said something (after the whole thing was revealed) like "I remember that I DID care for you" that he REMEMBERS that he felt not that he feels now. (There was a PBS series about some cop who got shot in the head and woke up, was able to go back to work, but had no emotional connection with anything. BUT he remembered he HAD loved his wife and kids and it frustrated him NOT to feel. So he didn't feel but remembered. Does that make sense to you?
I also felt that when Sam was out of the box, he looked at Dean, walked away. I think he remembered that his last wish for Dean was Family. And he went with that. I don't think being soulless made Sam as "monstrous" as he became when he was with Lindsay the Bartender and shot her to get to the monster he was hunting. In the beginning he went thru the motions of his remembered feelings; it was later on he "knew" he didn't feel and did not care he did not feel.
Where Samuel was concerned, I didn't think he wanted Dean in. Dean was the fly in the ointment. Crowley certainly did not want Dean sniffing around because as soon as Dean was in the picture the whole thing went sideways and then Castiel was doing things unhelpful in the partnership with Crowley because he was protecting Dean. Like Samuel did not want Dean in on the Alpha Vampire hunt. Hey, I just thought about Sam and Samuel and Sam and Dean: in Sam's state, he went with the strongest personality in the room and in the end that was Dean. When Dean said we gotta hunt and kill the Alpha or we're all dead, nobody backed Samuel's plan to recapture him.
(PS It did seem to me that Samuel was compassionate, friendly even with Dean in 6.01 and 6.05; he just didn't trust him, maybe Crowley said it was Dean's fault Mary and Samuel and Deana died, finding them thru time like he had. Whatever. Samuel only became a REAL asshole when he actually betrayed them. I "think" Crowley put the hammer to him and Samuel knew it was HIM or THEM.)
Actually, the common-sense thing for her to do was to call 911 and get the paramedics and the cops. Forget her husband being a 'monster' - he was covered in blood with open sores on his face. Whether he was homicidal or simply injured, calling 911 would be the smart choice. Her freezing up would've been a good excuse, except, she didn't freeze up.
ReplyDeleteI think she wanted to just talk to him first before making a phone call, which doesn't seem out of the ordinary.
ReplyDelete