Wait! Bobby goes to heaven and he doesn't spend time with his beloved wife? I mean okay, maybe she didn't make it the second time because she died a zombie, but heaven used to be living in your best memories, so she doesn't actually have to be there. If Bobby said he mostly spent time with his wife, forgetting there were monsters, and that's why he's rusty I'd be fine. She could be off screen in the scene, just yeesh!
Oh, they've changed canon again, haven't they? Either heaven is no longer memories, or Bobby loves watching Tori Spelling more than he loved his wife. I hope they explain.
That one's difficult. Because on one hand, I'm thinking of the Brothers' version of Heaven where there were a bunch of people in memories like their Mom and Sam's dog, but on the other I'm thinking of Ash whose Heaven was the bar but there wasn't anyone there unless he brought them over...so I think something like that is a little difficult to explain...
I'm going with the idea that SoulBobby is still wracked with guilt over being the cause of his wife's death(s) as an explanation of why it appears Bobby's not spending time with memories of Karen. Guilt is a powerful emotion even about bad things happening to loved ones that's totally beyond your control. Dean is a poster child for this type of guilt. When SoulBobby overcomes his feelings of guilt, I'm sure he'll spend time 'with Karen'.
Anyway, I'm curious about the 'Bobby scenes' in these clips: I assume Cas & Sam are asking 'Bobby' to (somehow) break out of Heaven in order to help them with Dean. Why do they need a psychic? - Sam, Dean and Bobby have performed séance rituals before. Cas is likely also familiar with these rituals. Bobby summoned Gavin's soul right to him in 6.04 using Gavin's ring as a link. Bobby's baseball hat is on séance table.
Since 'Bobby' seems to be still in Heaven somewhere does anybody else think that JB's availability could be the mystery for the delay filming 10.21?
Heaven still seems to be a sad and lonely place. Is it supposed to be like that or could Heaven be “freed” so every soul could spend the rest of the eternity with the people they loved?
Sam saying that Dean the way he is - Can we please actually see Dean even come close to losing it so these statements seem warranted? I just read a strong explanation for Sam telling Cas "Dean's getting worse" on IMDB. The poster theorized that Dean's having nightmare's so strong that Sam thinks Dean's being attacked, arms himself, and goes running through the Bunker to Dean's room. I think the theory ties together the two promo scenes together nicely.
That seems very feesable, or he's screaming and thats why we see Sam running through the bunker gun ready.
Also seems like Dean while mostly in denial or lying to Sam about how bad it is and that he hasnt actually given up he just doesnt want Sam to be involved in finding a cure either because he doesnt want Sam to do something dangerous/he's scared Sam wont be able to do anything/he doesnt trust Sam. I think/really hope Rowena will contact Dean or trick him with a promise of a cure and then not sure him and end up getting the bunker. Imagine if Sam comes back only to find Dean has let Rowena take over the MOL bunker, I can see that pushing Sam to an even darker place. Really hoping Rowena is up to something and really is worthy of being called a big bad, so far she's been more annoying than an actual threat.
Dabb typically writes decent dialog for Sam (and Cas); I think it's his writing for Dean that I've read more minor complaints about. But that was when Dabb (& Loflin) first started writing for the show. But ITA that's a longer emphasis on Sam's words I think we've seen since 10.06.
Imagine if Sam comes back only to find Dean has let Rowena take over the MOL bunker, I can see that pushing Sam to an even darker place.
This was my first thought, too, when I saw the first promo - that Rowena had 'gotten to Dean' (by hexing him like she did Crowley) and Dean gave up the Bunker location; that's 'who' Sam was chasing with the gun in the promo. And if Rowena can 'get to Dean' this easily, yes, it would push Sam harder.
But the IMDB theory - or your variation - makes more sense becomes it combines both scenes more reasonably. I think if Rowena actually got in the Bunker and Sam managed to chase her out with only the gun, he'd be really freaking out when he talked to Cas.
I think Dean is past denial and is firmly in the acceptance of his 'fate' stage in spite of what he told the priest in 10.16 and in spite of Sam's 37th "We'll fix this" speech. We've seen Dean in this fatalistic state before - in S7 - until 'Death's Door' - and then he wanted to fight back again. Dean hasn't reached the 'wanting to fight back stage' - yet (again, as a reminder of the btdt nature of the last few seasons) and something tells me he's loosing his fight against the Mark because of his fatalism and the Mark may win out by the season finale.
That's why Sam (I speculate) needs to go 'darker' - to fight darkness with other darkness.
Because Dean doesn't trust Sam with the 'bid stuff/decisions' - he never does - and this maybe subconscious trait of Dean's leads to Sam's "I always fail Dean" issues and it's a vicious cycle that Sam and Dean don't break out of.
What I wonder further is - when do the Sam/Cas/Metatron scenes take place as Curtis (Metatron) is in the 10.18 description, too, 'helping Cas'? After Sam and Cas contact Soul Bobby or before? Who brings Metatron earthside, knowing what happened last time Metatron was in Cas's care?
Well, the seances in the past seemed to be for ghosts stuck on earth/the Veil, so they are easier to communicate with. So I'm assuming since Cas is in a weakened state, they use the psychic to communicate with Bobby in Heaven, who taps into some of Cas power or something.
Also, pretty sure Gavin was in the Veil when Bobby summoned, since he asked him if he was in Hell.
You're right. Every ghost the boys have used séance rituals on have been in the Veil or lingering on earth. Gavin 1 was likely in the Veil, too, for whatever reason ghosts have for now moving on, with or without Reapers.
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This would be interesting, if we actually had seen on-screen that Dean is any different than normal.
ReplyDeleteWait! Bobby goes to heaven and he doesn't spend time with his beloved wife? I mean okay, maybe she didn't make it the second time because she died a zombie, but heaven used to be living in your best memories, so she doesn't actually have to be there. If Bobby said he mostly spent time with his wife, forgetting there were monsters, and that's why he's rusty I'd be fine. She could be off screen in the scene, just yeesh!
ReplyDeleteOh, they've changed canon again, haven't they? Either heaven is no longer memories, or Bobby loves watching Tori Spelling more than he loved his wife. I hope they explain.
Just seeing Bobby is making me tear up...I'm going to be a mess come Wed.
ReplyDeleteThat one's difficult. Because on one hand, I'm thinking of the Brothers' version of Heaven where there were a bunch of people in memories like their Mom and Sam's dog, but on the other I'm thinking of Ash whose Heaven was the bar but there wasn't anyone there unless he brought them over...so I think something like that is a little difficult to explain...
ReplyDeleteMore confusion!
ReplyDeleteSam saying that Dean the way he is - Can we please actually see Dean even come close to losing it so these statements seem warranted?
ReplyDeleteIt maybe nice to see Sam actually doing something other than giving concern face but Dean since Cain seems more together than Sam is.
I'm going with the idea that SoulBobby is still wracked with guilt over being the cause of his wife's death(s) as an explanation of why it appears Bobby's not spending time with memories of Karen. Guilt is a powerful emotion even about bad things happening to loved ones that's totally beyond your control. Dean is a poster child for this type of guilt. When SoulBobby overcomes his feelings of guilt, I'm sure he'll spend time 'with Karen'.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm curious about the 'Bobby scenes' in these clips: I assume Cas & Sam are asking 'Bobby' to (somehow) break out of Heaven in order to help them with Dean. Why do they need a psychic? - Sam, Dean and Bobby have performed séance rituals before. Cas is likely also familiar with these rituals. Bobby summoned Gavin's soul right to him in 6.04 using Gavin's ring as a link. Bobby's baseball hat is on séance table.
Since 'Bobby' seems to be still in Heaven somewhere does anybody else think that JB's availability could be the mystery for the delay filming 10.21?
OMG! MY BOBBY!!! MISS YOU SO MUCH! :´( MY SAMMY!! I CAN´ WAIT! ♥
ReplyDeleteHeaven still seems to be a sad and lonely place. Is it supposed to be like that or could Heaven be “freed” so every soul could spend the rest of the eternity with the people they loved?
ReplyDeleteI like this Bobby.
Sam saying that Dean the way he is - Can we please actually see Dean even come close to losing it so these statements seem warranted?
ReplyDeleteI just read a strong explanation for Sam telling Cas "Dean's getting worse" on IMDB. The poster theorized that Dean's having nightmare's so strong that Sam thinks Dean's being attacked, arms himself, and goes running through the Bunker to Dean's room. I think the theory ties together the two promo scenes together nicely.
Blimey this might be the most dialogue Sam's had in one episode since I dont know when
ReplyDeleteThat seems very feesable, or he's screaming and thats why we see Sam running through the bunker gun ready.
ReplyDeleteAlso seems like Dean while mostly in denial or lying to Sam about how bad it is and that he hasnt actually given up he just doesnt want Sam to be involved in finding a cure either because he doesnt want Sam to do something dangerous/he's scared Sam wont be able to do anything/he doesnt trust Sam. I think/really hope Rowena will contact Dean or trick him with a promise of a cure and then not sure him and end up getting the bunker. Imagine if Sam comes back only to find Dean has let Rowena take over the MOL bunker, I can see that pushing Sam to an even darker place. Really hoping Rowena is up to something and really is worthy of being called a big bad, so far she's been more annoying than an actual threat.
Bobby i miss very you VERY much!!!!
ReplyDeleteDabb typically writes decent dialog for Sam (and Cas); I think it's his writing for Dean that I've read more minor complaints about. But that was when Dabb (& Loflin) first started writing for the show. But ITA that's a longer emphasis on Sam's words I think we've seen since 10.06.
ReplyDeleteImagine if Sam comes back only to find Dean has let Rowena take over the MOL bunker, I can see that pushing Sam to an even darker place.
ReplyDeleteThis was my first thought, too, when I saw the first promo - that Rowena had 'gotten to Dean' (by hexing him like she did Crowley) and Dean gave up the Bunker location; that's 'who' Sam was chasing with the gun in the promo. And if Rowena can 'get to Dean' this easily, yes, it would push Sam harder.
But the IMDB theory - or your variation - makes more sense becomes it combines both scenes more reasonably. I think if Rowena actually got in the Bunker and Sam managed to chase her out with only the gun, he'd be really freaking out when he talked to Cas.
I think Dean is past denial and is firmly in the acceptance of his 'fate' stage in spite of what he told the priest in 10.16 and in spite of Sam's 37th "We'll fix this" speech. We've seen Dean in this fatalistic state before - in S7 - until 'Death's Door' - and then he wanted to fight back again. Dean hasn't reached the 'wanting to fight back stage' - yet (again, as a reminder of the btdt nature of the last few seasons) and something tells me he's loosing his fight against the Mark because of his fatalism and the Mark may win out by the season finale.
That's why Sam (I speculate) needs to go 'darker' - to fight darkness with other darkness.
Because Dean doesn't trust Sam with the 'bid stuff/decisions' - he never does - and this maybe subconscious trait of Dean's leads to Sam's "I always fail Dean" issues and it's a vicious cycle that Sam and Dean don't break out of.
What I wonder further is - when do the Sam/Cas/Metatron scenes take place as Curtis (Metatron) is in the 10.18 description, too, 'helping Cas'? After Sam and Cas contact Soul Bobby or before? Who brings Metatron earthside, knowing what happened last time Metatron was in Cas's care?
Aw.... I was hoping for Jim to actually be in the same physical space with the rest of the cast...
ReplyDeleteHope there's a scene later on that fixes that.
Well, the seances in the past seemed to be for ghosts stuck on earth/the Veil, so they are easier to communicate with. So I'm assuming since Cas is in a weakened state, they use the psychic to communicate with Bobby in Heaven, who taps into some of Cas power or something.
ReplyDeleteAlso, pretty sure Gavin was in the Veil when Bobby summoned, since he asked him if he was in Hell.
You're right. Every ghost the boys have used séance rituals on have been in the Veil or lingering on earth. Gavin 1 was likely in the Veil, too, for whatever reason ghosts have for now moving on, with or without Reapers.
ReplyDeleteUh...no video??
ReplyDelete