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POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - Paint It Black?

26 Mar 2015

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87 comments:

  1. Ambar Moreno Candelas26 March 2015 at 02:00

    Great episode!! I enjoyed it very much! I will always hate the witches. Many creepy scenes and Mr. Ackles always let me mesmerized with his acting :D He's AWESOME and Sammy saved his brother!!!!!!!! I was really surprised with the best scene of the episode, Dean talking with the priest. Talking about his fears and God, I never expected that last answer!!! Sammy, you are so protector with your brother, so kind, I truly good brother!!

    It seems to me or Dean was sick, maybe, at the end? Even Sam was driving the Impala.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Caroline Veronica26 March 2015 at 02:02

    Typical Buckner & Ross-Leming episode. Literally the ONLY good part was the second half of Dean's confession. The unnecessary focus on sex got gross and boring really quickly. Why do these writers always make Dean so out-of character? Why do they almost always (as well as Jenny Klein) focus on sex-centric episodes where the women are the bad guys? So tired of it. Weak episode. Nice half of the confession.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Caroline Veronica26 March 2015 at 02:04

    I'm also so tired of Sam begging Dean to vent and talk to him about his feelings, when last time Dean tried that, Sam threw it back to his face. No wonder Dean doesn't tell him much.

    ReplyDelete
  4. les26 March 2015 at 02:04

    Very slow but I didn't expect much from Brad Bucker and Eugenie Ross-Leming that gave us Route 666.

    ReplyDelete
  5. les26 March 2015 at 02:08

    Is Rowena a regular or guess star. Cause she's in just about or more epi then Cas.

    ReplyDelete
  6. BoxManLocke26 March 2015 at 02:09

    What a complete disaster that was.

    The MotW part had it all : hot nuns, trademark Dean monologues, and those awesome flashbacks about that horny painter and his psycho muse. I don't know if it should count as a positive that the whole case was over and done it about fifteen minutes.


    As if that wasn't bad enough, Rowena was back, more caricatural and cringeworthy than ever, to give us that weak-ass link to the Men of Letters. This plot reeks of something that was quickly though about in the middle of the season, when they learned about the season 11 renewal and Carver had to make his 3-year-plan into a 4 year one.

    And to top it all, Sam who had been pretty much invisible the whole episode, gets completely ignored by his brother in the end.


    Worst ep of the season, one of the worst the show has ever had.

    ReplyDelete
  7. BoxManLocke26 March 2015 at 02:10

    She's a special guest star. People freak out way too much about the contract stuff. Misha/Mark could be guest-stars and still appear much more regularly than they have this season.

    ReplyDelete
  8. les26 March 2015 at 02:14

    Yeah I saw that in the past. In as many times as we saw her this year her character is just empty to me. Boring.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Katherine26 March 2015 at 02:39

    Didn't like this one but enjoyed seeing sam and Dean. Can't stand Rowena. Dean please kill her.

    ReplyDelete
  10. MythAl26 March 2015 at 02:53

    I'm not one who likes this Dean vs Sam thing. Please refresh my memory. If we take Carver's years, when Sam did throw wherever Dean said back to his face? As far as I remember, Dean tricked his brother with an awful phone message about Amelia, made sure to point to Sam all his mistakes even including some of his own, before the young Winchester go to confess in 8x23, and then tricked him with the whole Gadreel thing AND got the MoC because he was feeling sorry for himself. All that "I'm poison, yada, yada." I'm not saying Sam is perfect, far from it, but after all these things, I think SAM is the one who should not trust his brother. And yet he got over it and is showing the most caring and supportive attitude towards Dean. And he barely is present. So maybe you should get over it too.


    Having said that, I agree that something has to change. Otherwise this MoC storyline is even more boring that already is.

    ReplyDelete
  11. lala226 March 2015 at 02:53

    That was simply AWFUL! I'm not gonna lie . . . . I didn't watch the entire episode b/c I kept flipping back to L&O: SVU so I missed some parts, but the parts I did see were horrifically boring!
    Those flashbacks? Awful. Was that much back story actually necessary?
    Rowena? Awful. I'm sorry but even her voice gets on my nerves. I didn't care about anything she was saying or doing. I don't care about her coven. I don't care about her vendetta. I don't care about her relationship w/Crowley. I don't care about her ultimate plan. I simply don't care about her!
    And still no movement on the MOC front so I don't think I missed much.

    ReplyDelete
  12. MythAl26 March 2015 at 03:00

    Awful, awful, awful. We had bad acting with bad accent, Rowena (get rid of her please), unnecessary sex jokes, an italian soap opera for God's sake. I'm going to pretend I never saw this thing.

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  13. Ceryle26 March 2015 at 03:18

    Ouch, that was bad – and this coming from someone who doesn't really dislike Route 666 or Bugs. I think that's the first time I've ever gotten bored during a Supernatural episode (that wasn't called "Bloodlines") ... and it kept happening. Poorly written, poorly acted, poorly developed, lamely concluded. Did the boys even really solve the case?


    The only saving graces:
    -The Allman Brothers aliases
    -Dean's confession
    -The chat in the Impala (though the last silhouette – with Dean clearly driving – was so so sloppy)
    -Sam being smart
    -Rowena turning Olivette into a hamster
    -The promo for next week


    Other than that... no classic rock (I mean, "Paint It Black?" Come on.), no fighting, no pop culture references, very little investigating, very little heart, very few brain cells employed BUT a deluge of flashbacks begging for a Fabio cover.


    Thank goodness for next week.

    ReplyDelete
  14. BoxManLocke26 March 2015 at 03:22

    ANYBODY kill her, please.
    I wouldn't mind if she fell into a giant plot hole and disappeared for no reason. Anything to get rid of her.

    ReplyDelete
  15. lala226 March 2015 at 03:23

    I never had a problem with Bugs or Route 666 either. Those were good episodes, IMO, that I would happily re-watch.



    This episode was slow and bad. Last week's episode was better, and I can't even remember what last week's episode was about (haha) so basically a big blank was better than this episode, IMO. LOL :-)

    ReplyDelete
  16. Ceryle26 March 2015 at 03:25

    Ugh, I can't imagine re-watching this one right now. Maybe just the last scene. Or just the promo for next week. I'd rewind for that.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Robanah26 March 2015 at 03:26

    A very dull episode this week! Slow pace, same old same old! I was begging for the Rowena scenes, I really was expecting her quest to be a little be more exciting. Instead, it comes to the first thing I thought it was going to happen, but then thought "nah, that would be too simplistic for SPN" *sighs* so now she is after the Men of Letters... I hate being right!
    Not enough screen time for Crowley! Even then, he seems bored, hell... even the actor seems bored!
    What the hell was up with the flashbacks? Nobody cares! To be honest, The Red Violin was much more interesting, and that is saying a lot because that movie was slow! Same kind of premise though, guy uses his dead wife's blood as varnish..... Boyfriend uses girlfriend's blood and bones for paint! Sorry SPN, it was much better done in that movie!
    What happened to all the SPN gore??
    GET SAM TO DO SOMETHING!!!!!
    No Castiel :'(
    Rowena was still annoying, but I will say that at least she was doing something this time.
    The person who said "15 episodes in, and still waiting for a story" was pretty accurate. Nothing has really gone on to further the plot. Instead we have character building, which is really, really boring. Especially if the characters are ones that you don't really give a damn about!!!

    ReplyDelete
  18. les26 March 2015 at 03:35

    They really are trying to kill the ratings.

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  19. kerinda26 March 2015 at 03:48

    well said! and the MOC crap is boring I done with it all ready The walking dead was so I had too chose.

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  20. les26 March 2015 at 03:50

    If this is the quality of episodes this show has to offer for now on. They might as well end themselves. They had a good run. But if they wan't to continue Execution and Pacing is something these writers need to work on desperately bad. I keep screaming the same song because they keep spewing out the same crap.

    ReplyDelete
  21. kerinda26 March 2015 at 03:52

    There all getting to be Worst Eps this season I do not even know if I will be getting the show on dvd because if they do not turn it around its not worth the price too buy it in Sept.

    ReplyDelete
  22. kerinda26 March 2015 at 03:55

    are you just getting sick of it? Hey The walking Dead is on My nextwork TV old Ep but better they showed A and the 1st Ep so I tried too go back and forth but got sick of it all.

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  23. kerinda26 March 2015 at 03:56

    me too I cant even remember last weeks too and Empire was on so back and forth again.

    ReplyDelete
  24. lala226 March 2015 at 03:59

    Yeah . . . I'm drawing a huge blank when it comes to last week's episode, but I just remember not liking it. That said, I still feel this episode was worse than last week's. I don't recall being bored out of my mind last week like I was a few hours ago!

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  25. lala226 March 2015 at 04:00

    I hear ya! I won't be re-watching this episode any time soon.

    ReplyDelete
  26. lala226 March 2015 at 04:03

    I am, Kerinda. This season is only getting worse, not better! SVU was really good tonight and the preview for next week looked good. I think I'll be taping/recording SPN from here on out and watching SVU.

    TWD is my favorite tv show. I'd watch that show any day over SPN.

    ReplyDelete
  27. MythAl26 March 2015 at 04:28

    Agreed. TWD is awesome this year.

    ReplyDelete
  28. BoxManLocke26 March 2015 at 04:36

    I remember back when those episodes were considered the worst ever in SPN. It really was a testament to the incredible quality of the show.
    Nowadays they would be considered good/great, because even though the MotW were a bit silly, there was great character development in both episodes.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Hellboy26 March 2015 at 06:21

    Dean is a horndog, there is nothing out of character or gross about him thinking the nun was hot.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Hellboy26 March 2015 at 06:25

    You ever think that Jared and Jensen asked for more time off this season?

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  31. les26 March 2015 at 06:45

    I'm talking about When they are there they are still wall paper in their own story. This been going on for a while anyway. In it probably has to do with the show trying to do a Ensemble cast. The problem is these writers looking at their credits never done that in some of them don't even write for this genre. In some seem like they feel more comfortable writing for characters they didn't create.

    ReplyDelete
  32. BoxManLocke26 March 2015 at 07:25

    I'll get the dvds for the bonus material as usual, but I agree there are only 3-4 episodes that I really liked this season so far.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Kati26 March 2015 at 08:46

    She's a recurring. Recurrings can be used when needed and/or available. Regulars have to be used in more than a half the episodes but have to be available at all times, that's all.

    ReplyDelete
  34. lala226 March 2015 at 09:49

    Exactly! I'll take the dawn coming too quickly any day over some nun's boring love story and Crowley's mother!

    ReplyDelete
  35. Ross26 March 2015 at 10:52

    I haven't seen the episode, but I hear it was a ghost centric episode. Can somebody tell me if anybody mentioned or even acknowledged the freaking veil problem?

    ReplyDelete
  36. Toni26 March 2015 at 12:05

    No, they didn't. If they did, I was zoned out.

    ReplyDelete
  37. chris68426 March 2015 at 12:16

    I was determined to go into this with a glass half-full attitude, so here are my positives:
    - they had me guessing with what type of a monster it was for a while, probably longer than I should have been and I think I missed something, but there was that
    - I found the balance of jumping between 2 storylines so much better than their usual pattern of running either one storyline or about 4
    - nothing's scarier than church
    - Dean in a confessional, although I have more to add to that on the negative side
    - I liked the hint that Crowley may be turning against the winchesters

    Negatives:
    - when I heard Dean was going to confess I was really hoping that we may get a reverse of Sacrifice and hear Sam's list of everything Dean should confess, because I suspect it would run a lot deeper than Dean's. Instead we got Dean's versions of his greatest sins: too much consexual sex and that he wants to live. If the writers think that writing Dean as having the self awareness of a gnat is doing anything for the character, they're wrong.
    - I tried to follow the Rowena and nun stuff but that didn't last long. In truth I have no idea how the episode ended because I slept through the last 15 minutes.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Ross26 March 2015 at 12:26

    I hope you did miss something. I can't really excuse this poor show running much longer if none of the writers can keep track or even remember a pretty significant plot point.

    ReplyDelete
  39. chris68426 March 2015 at 12:57

    Just had another thought about the slightly bizarre "I want to live" confession. Is this Dean's way of saying he want to go back to being a demon? Is that why he doesn't want Sam researching a cure?

    ReplyDelete
  40. chris68426 March 2015 at 16:20

    Crowley should kill her to redeem himself to the audience.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Tawrens26 March 2015 at 18:00

    Dean Did Not trick Sam. Sam said yes to Gadreel without getting all the info. Dean wasn't there so Dean couldn't of tricked Sam into anything. Why must fans like you insist Sam making an uninformed choice is all Dean's fault. Sam made the choice and instead of handling the consequences like a man he whined like a spoiled toddler that it was all Dean's fault. If this is Carver's idea of maturity I don't want it. 8x23 Sam whined he was insecure and it was all Dean's fault because Dean had a life with friends and everything healthy people do. If Dean hadn't sent the message Martin and Sam would of murdered Benny just because he was a vamp and so he had to be guilty in their opinion. As it was Sam got Martin killed, Elizabeth traumatized and Benny MIA to deal with the new nightmares Sam's prejudice dumped on him. Yet a text is something you find worse then what Sam did in the ep?! Dean got the MOC not because he was feeling sorry for himself but to stop Abaddon and Metatron. You claim you're saying Sam's not perfect but you're dumping Sam's mistakes on Dean because in your opinion poor little Sammy can do no wrong. Purge Sam tossed more crap on Dean. Dec 9th's ep He ran and didn't bother to see if Dean was with him then he runs into the house to find an injured Dean and instead of asking, "Are you ok?" He bellows that Dean needs to tell him that Dean HAD To Do It. Hey Sam 5 to 1 and your brother is injured what do you think happened? Sam has consistently tossed crap on Dean since season 1. Asylum his rant about Dean following John. Sam only was made angry but it was still Sam. DMB He rants about Dean's faith in John then cuts John off in a way that could of caused a car accident and wastes time while Sam struts trying to prove his manhood. The girl turned might of been saved if it wasn't for Sam's stunt. When Azazel has John Sam was going to shoot him. He doesn't say a word when Azazel tells Dean he's worthless or bother asking about Mary, try to help John just asks about Jessica. He also sits and grins when in Home and in season 2 carnival ep Dean is ragged on by others. Sam has done nothing but ignore and dump on John/Dean. There are more incidents where Sam pissed on Dean like when Dean tried to help the only way he could by making stew and trying to get Sam to rest only to have Sam go into a rant that what he's dealing with is so bad and in his opinion Dean couldn't understand it.

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  42. Tawrens26 March 2015 at 18:02

    The trials were boring. I'd love to consider the MOC to be boring but I need more then 3 eps where it's been in for a few minutes here and there for that to happen.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Tawrens26 March 2015 at 18:04

    TA a number of fans on the IMDB board and TV.com board wish she'd get killed and I'm one of them. She's an annoying screeching brat and the old Crowley wouldn't put up with her crap. He'd smack her then toss her into chains and treat her like a pet.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Tawrens26 March 2015 at 18:05

    Same here love the gag reels.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Tawrens26 March 2015 at 18:11

    Cole and the khan worms which just as lame as this ep except for Dean's confession that he didn't want to die. Sam pushing Dean to share, he should know by now that Dean will share when he's ready.

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  46. sharonally26 March 2015 at 18:36

    Dean tricked Sam and Dean admitted he tricked Sam . It was not on Sam to get the information like he was asking directory enquires what happened was on Dean and Gadreel . As for the rest why stop there seeing you are so intent on making Sam the bad guy in every instance and blame him for being born .


    I mean DMB , Asylum , Azazel and everything inbetween what you are having a go out are ridiculous and we could all do that I could do it with Dean .

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  47. stinapag26 March 2015 at 18:59

    I got the impression that the first half of Dean's confession was just made up to lure whatever was making people commit suicide to head to him. He concocted the whole "Gina" story because the only real connection between the victims was that a) they went to confession, and b) they may have confessed to cheating. The second half ("I don't want to die") was the genuine confession.

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  48. Tawrens26 March 2015 at 20:10

    I'm not trying to discredit him. You asked for instances of Sam dumping on Dean and I gave you some. Dean was not in Sam's head. It was Gadreel posing as Dean. Gadreel posing as Dean said he had a plan and Sam asked what the plan was. Gadreel said Is that a yes? And Sam said yes. Yes it is on Sam to get all the info before he agrees to possession of any kind. Sam asked but he failed to followed through so his possession is all on Sam not Dean and just because Carver wants Dean to be the bad guy doesn't mean Dean is.

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  49. sharonally26 March 2015 at 20:43

    The possession was on Dean and Gadreel even the show admitted that Dean admitted it , when someone wants to absolve Dean starts the victim blaming and try's to make Sam responsible for what was done to him then that is where the conversation ends for me

    And I never asked for anything your 'examples' of Sam 'dumping' on Dean are your view .

    ReplyDelete
  50. Aline26 March 2015 at 21:23

    So, every time Sam sees Dean or talks to Dean he should first ensure that it is actually Dean Winchester, his brother, he's talking to first and not some angel/demon etc that Dean gave permission to enter his head?

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  51. shadowhund26 March 2015 at 21:33

    since I don't watch Supernatural including the last Episode before xmas (WHY? Because they IGNORE Sam as character) I can't say much only this:
    A friend of mine who wants from me to I upload the new episodes so she can watch in Germany (she started to watch because of my addiction and Connection once upon a time) she asked me why I wouldn't continue watching and what themes are on Topic right now. I told her Dean was a demon, about the MoC and about Sam's character ignored (& I don't want to Support this), she only pointed out Famine said Dean is dead inside, no desires and wants and Needs! That's why he turned demonic! He is dead inside! Maybe since his return from his hell trip! MY friends POV on this!

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  52. kerinda26 March 2015 at 22:04

    So true if I had too chose TWD or SPN it now be TWD they have better writers and all around great show and It sad too said because I did love SPN and I still love the guys and happy that bobby is coming back for one Ep but its not the show I fell in love with anyone.

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  53. kerinda26 March 2015 at 22:07

    the Trials was a waste of time too all that and at the end nothing come on season 8 was a waste and season 10 with the MOC BORING!

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  54. kerinda26 March 2015 at 22:09

    Gag reels a must!

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  55. Hellboy26 March 2015 at 23:18

    It was pretty obvious that the first half of Dean's confession was a ruse, especially when you consider the face he makes after he tells the priest it was making him sick.

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  56. lala227 March 2015 at 01:05

    Ahhhh . . . . yes . . . Cole! "Dean-o" and "Sammy." I forgot.

    ReplyDelete
  57. lala227 March 2015 at 01:08

    Dean tricked Sam. I understand why he did it, but he did trick Sam. The character admits to tricking Sam. Sam thought he was speaking to "Dean," not Gadreel. How is that not a trick?

    ReplyDelete
  58. elle j.27 March 2015 at 06:17

    I enjoyed this episode and thought it was one of the better ones this season. There was a good old fashioned haunting that had a twist with the ghost story. Dean confessing he wasn't ready to die is the first step in him realizing he can find the strength to fight the MoC. Sam was intelligent enough to think things through in how to stop the ghost and in the process saved Dean. Bonus points right there for that one! Most surprising of all, Rowena's pointless story has now seemed to find a direction. That direction now ties her into the Winchester story due to their Men of Letters legacy. However, it has taken way too long this season to chose just now to find a way to pull the different characters into an umbrella story and to define their roles in that story.

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  59. chris68427 March 2015 at 10:56

    I don't know if the dead inside is supposed to still be the case, or whether it was a temporary post-hell response. They seem to have dropped it anyway.

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  60. chris68427 March 2015 at 11:14

    Maybe I'm venting because the "I don't want to die" isn't much of a confession. Ruse or not, the show set up a chance to go a lot deeper by putting Dean in a confessional, and we get this? I didn't even know Dean was suicidal. Wasn't Dean already committed to fighting the mark until he couldn't?

    It just reminds me of the season 7 episode when Dean was put on trial and we learn that the things Dean feels guilty about are Jo's decision to become a hunter, picking Sam up in college, and lying to Sam about killing Amy. Nothing about making the decision to sell his soul to bring back Sam from the dead, which we know set off a domino effect that eventually ended with the apocalypse and Sam in the cage, and nothing about torturing souls in Hell and enjoying it.

    We're about a year into the MoC storyline and Dean has yet to acknowledge that he brought all of this on himself because Cain pretty much spelled out that there were be dark consequences and he went in willingly anyway. Not to mention he's now put himself in the position of doing the same thing now to Sam (leaving him behind alive), which was the same thing he was trying to avoid for himself with his deal with Gadreel. There's been no acknowledgment of either.

    I don't need to see other characters making him feel worse. There's been too much of that type of thing on this show in recent years. But I need to see some sign that Dean gets it. Otherwise I can't connect with this character. The privacy of a confessional would have been the perfect place.

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  61. Audrey27 March 2015 at 13:59

    Got a good night sleep last night but i don't think I took a sleeping pill. I think I was watching something on tv.... oh sleepy again.

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  62. spnmonster27 March 2015 at 19:37

    Possibly the most boring episode of Supernatural I've ever seen. No, definitely. I've been disappointed before, angry even, but never just bored.

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  63. spnmonster27 March 2015 at 19:42

    Dean agreed to let Gadreel go to Sam posing as him because he knew Sam would say no otherwise. Sam only said yes because he trusted Dean not to do something he wouldn't want. Dean betrayed that trust. I understand why Dean did it, but it doesn't make it okay. Sam had no reason to not trust Dean prior to that, so why would he ask what the plan was? You're blaming the victim here.

    ReplyDelete
  64. spnmonster27 March 2015 at 19:43

    She's a caricature, a horrible comic villain.

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  65. spnmonster27 March 2015 at 19:49

    I forgot about Bloodlines. Thanks for bringing that abomination to mind. I never considered it a Supernatural episode anyway.

    They probably couldn't afford "Paint It Black" because they got that Taylor Swift song.

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  66. spnmonster27 March 2015 at 19:52

    That's a good point. The writers do seem to enjoy writing for their characters -- Robbie for Charlie, etc -- than for Sam and Dean. Except Glass, of course, He has a wicked hard on for Dean -- teen Dean specifically.

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  67. spnmonster27 March 2015 at 19:57

    Yes, exactly. The second half of the confession could have been "I don't want to die and leave things the way they are. I've hurt people, my brother, my friends ..." Something along those lines. Instead we get this vague comment about experiencing things differently people, feelings. Such queerbaiting. I never bought into that accusation before, but now? Yep. Buckner/Ross-Leming know their unpopular and they went for the shipper vote.

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  68. spnmonster27 March 2015 at 20:04

    I didn't find the first two seasons boring at all because we were discovering who these characters were, peeling back the layers, and watching them rebuild their relationship while the mythology around Sam and the demons was built.

    And that's part of why the Carver years are so unsatisfying. I feel like they've forgotten who Sam, especially, and Dean are or why we were interested in their relationship in the first place. If Jared and Jensen still have passion for these characters, it's just not coming through consistently anymore.

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  69. lala227 March 2015 at 21:42

    Yeah . . . I felt the same as you guys. It just didn't hold my interest!

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  70. lala227 March 2015 at 21:44

    Agreed! I loved the first 4 seasons, and the first two seasons were great. As you said, we were getting to know the characters and their family. This season, however, has been horrifically boring, IMO, from the start.

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  71. lala227 March 2015 at 21:55

    Thankfully, those gag reels inevitably end up on YouTube so no need to spend money on the DVDs.

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  72. kerinda28 March 2015 at 02:16

    yes that too I wish they just come out with a gag reel dvd with all 10 season that be cool and more that you never seen it be awesome.

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  73. chris68428 March 2015 at 12:09

    Was there really shipper subtext? I didn't catch that, but I'm not surprised because I was drifting off to sleep in the episode.

    ReplyDelete
  74. BoxManLocke29 March 2015 at 00:15

    There wasn't. Of course Dean wants to experience new things if what he wants is to get out of the life.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Tawrens30 March 2015 at 01:24

    Better off that way with seasons 8 on since very little of Carvers train wreck even looks anything like Supernatural baring having the same name.

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  76. Tawrens30 March 2015 at 01:24

    The character admits to it because Carver is intent on making Dean look bad every chance he can. The actors have told a different story at con and also made references that they aren't happy with storylines like when they both said they wished demon Dean had lasted longer.

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  77. Tawrens30 March 2015 at 01:26

    A host cannot be possessed unless the host agrees. Sam got possessed so Sam agreed. Dean said he could try but he doubted Sam would agree meaning he figured it was pointless and Dean wasn't even there nor did he tell Gadreel it was ok to use his likeness as another stated.

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  78. sharonally30 March 2015 at 08:03

    I am not going to argue a point that is not up for debate. Dean was fully involved he worked with Gadreel to trick Sam into saying yes, it is there in canon .

    You can deny it as much as you like but Dean knows he tricked Sam I know he tricked Sam , the writers know he tricked Sam and many others know he tricked Sam. And as I have said victim blaming is something I find distasteful.

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  79. Tawrens30 March 2015 at 19:27

    Carver made excuses why Sam didn't look. How does he look bad when he didn't search for a brother as he put it he believed to be dead? He didn't gaslight Sam because gaslighting means to make a person believe they're going crazy. Gadreel told him that if Sam knew about him he could toss him out regardless of whether he was well enough or not. He didn't allow Gadreel to do anything. He loved his brother and wanted him better as he said in Season 3 Sam dying no but he had no problem dying if it insured Sam lived. Carver said at comic con when a fan asked if Sam could not be sick or in danger, "No that would be boring like Dean." Carver has repeatedly sidelined Dean. In season 8 he was caretaker to Sam who was the important one due to the trials. Season 9 Sam dumps on Dean blaming him for Gadreel/Kevin and saying Dean only sacrifices if he can't get hurt and doesn't want Sam dead so he won't be alone?! Dean is kneeling bleeding from his head and Sam's first words are a demand Dean prove he had to do it. When Sam was curing Dean the demon got particularly nasty ad Sam had to know it was the demon messing with him yet he jammed the needle into Dean's arm?

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  80. spnmonster30 March 2015 at 21:27

    Wow, your view is so skewed against Sam and you clutch at every straw in order to exonerate Dean of any responsibility and white wash his mistakes. You see everything as black or whit when in fact both brothers have faults and make mistakes.

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  81. Tawrens30 March 2015 at 23:14

    Of course you fantasy won't accept anything else. Sam is not a saint but you seem to be going out of your way to excuse saintly Sam of everything. I don't have a problem with Sam I have a problem with fans who see Sam as perfect. If it looks like Sam messed up it's Dean's fault Or Cas fault right? You share that with Carver. Sam seasons 1-7 I like the same as any other character. Carver wrecks the character but I have to be a Sam hater right? Are you part of the tumbler crowd by chance?

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  82. Tawrens30 March 2015 at 23:33

    No I'm blaming the person responsible for his own actions Sam. Sam is not a victim no matter how you try to make him out to be a victim of his big bad brother. Sam the host said yes and he's the only one who could but of course he's the victim right? Part of the tumbler crowd are you?

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  83. sharonally31 March 2015 at 13:02

    It was on Dean and Gadreel that was the story that is canon, hence why Dean admitted he tricked Sam.

    Nobody said Dean was a bad brother but blaming Sam for his own violation will not change what was written. Now I will not keep replying to your posts you can believe whatever you like blame Sam for every thing that has happened , but nothing you say will change what is canon.

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  84. spnmonster31 March 2015 at 17:02

    You appear to have a reading comprehension problem. Go back and read again. How does they both have faults and make mistakes equal Sam is a saint?

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  85. Tawrens31 March 2015 at 17:31

    I have no prob reading. In fact I'm an excellent reader. Your comment might of said both have faults but the tone is definitely poor Sam so perfect and can do no wrong. Why is it some Sam fans insist on absolving Sam of anything bad he does? Sam asked about the plan but didn't follow through. How is that Dean's fault? Sam didn't ask for details and Sam said yes. He says he wants to die and never come back and then out of nowhere he does a complete 180 without any reason why which is a symptom of Carver's inability to make sense but still Sam could of said keeping his wish to die, he could of asked for more info, he didn't. Regardless of whether he thought this was a figment of his mind or not Sam said yes. Remember earlier his mind created a Bobby which said die and a Dean which said live and he refused as the Dean figment wanted to live so why when faced with a Dean who says he has a plan would Sam change his mind and decide to live? Dean wasn't present in Sam's mind, the actors, etc have said so during con appearances. Julian Riching (Death) said the death in Sam's mind during that scene was a figment of Sam's mind as well.

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  86. lala21 April 2015 at 01:33

    I guess I don't think Dean tricking Sam in this instance makes him irredeemable or a horrible person or anything. I thought Carver actually did a great job in explaining Dean's actions in the S9 premiere, so I completely understood Dean. I can't say it was not a trick though b/c it was. An understandable trick but a trick nonetheless.

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  87. Lubbeelou19 April 2015 at 17:14

    Am I the only one getting really irritated by Crowley and his mother? It's almost as if, now that they have Crowley full time, they don't know what to do with him. Where has his evilness gone?

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