Today's User Submitted Daily (USD) Poll was submitted by Asia who was picked randomly from our Poll Submissions (see below).
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It's a tough one as I don't hate anyone on the show. Laurel had problems but I think she has improved a lot. If I was allowed none regulars I'd go for the Huntress who I think has been very mishandled and the first Count Vertigo.
Maybe the people voting for Moira are ones who only watched a few episodes of the show before dropping it so they don't know the current characters that are still around.
Well, this season Felicity has been pretty much annoying to me. Laurel is, too, but somehow not that much anymore. So I take both of them, since Ray isn't on the list.
Who hates Quentin?????????? How is this even possible?!! Do I really need to answer? Anyone who has read a single comment of mine can guess my answer lol But I'll choose anyway Laurel Lance and the despicable Malcolm Merlyn, and a dishonourable mention to Ray Palmer (UGH)
I voted for Laurel and Roy. Roy strictly for acting purposes. Otherwise love the sidekick.
Laurel is so much better this season and I don't want to scream when she is on screen. But season 1 and 2 I couldn't stand her and in season 3 I still think it was unnecessary to rush her into vigilante mode. She needs more training. They could have went about it in a different way.
Honestly right now at this point I like all the characters. But I still say with heavy heart Diggle needs to be written off before he becomes stale.
This is one of those times when the main character is my least favorite. Oliver has his moments, but overall i don't like him any more. Everyone else has really grown on me, when Oliver just annoys me a lot anymore.
Felicity all the way. She is the only one I dislike (actually hate) on the show and the only reason why I don't turn it live. I will watch online day after and skip all the scenes with her in it.
I must say yesterdays episode there was a scene where i wanted to throw up. With Merlyn & Roy just hanging outside Thea's door when she was having sex with the DJ Douchebag. So i voted those two.
Either they over throw Waller by the end of the season, make Diggle ARGUS head and make him a recurring character bringing him in episodes strictly necessary OR they need to make Thea and Laurel into a B team and make them recurring characters who gets separate missions which sometimes connect with Team Arrow missions. Roy is Oliver's side kick so he belongs with him. You can't move Felicity because she is the tech support. She is safe for a long time.
I don't know. I hope they have a real game plan but doesn't seem like it. Diggle's character had real purpose in the first 2 seasons but now he just feels like dead weight, sadly. They didn't even explore that HIVE thing and it was mentioned 1 and a half year without the mention.
Exactly. HIVE should have been an ongoing mystery which comes up every few episodes. They killed his brother. Its hard to imagine Diggle sitting on this without any action for this long time. No research nothing.
In the comics, the most members Team Arrow (a term that orginated there, and not on the show btw) had going out in the field was four, Oliver, his son Connor, Mia (Speedy) and Black Canary. Roy was busy with his own teams by then.
Looking at the show, Oliver's kid is unlikely to be a factor during the show's run. So we'll have Oliver, Roy, Laurel and Thea, with Felicity in the tech support/Oracle role
But yes, as more and more people are coming into their comic book roles orginal characters like Diggle are becoming somewhat superfluous. Something even Guggenheim has acknowledged in that they're struggling to include Diggle in the field now. I think overthrowing Amanda Waller and installing Diggle as the new head of ARGUS works nicely to retire him from field duty, he can then move to reoccuring and appear to help Oliver and the team with resources as neccesary.
I love Diggle. He was actually the only character I loved in the pilot episode. It was love at first scene. But I would rather Diggle be given an honorable exit than watch nonsense like last episode where he is sidelined over someone with no experience. Either make him recurring or write him off.
A four member fighting team may have worked in comics but personally I think two fighters are the perfect number for normal missions. Hell they have trouble writing for more than 3 people in the arrow cave. Roy hardly had ny dialogue in season 3A. How on earth are they going to write for 6 with Thea and Laurel?
It would. From what I have read HIVE is a huge thing. It would need a season long arc. But they could have laid more stones while getting there. Let Diggle get some clues. Send him away to investigate somewhere.
I don't mind him being Green Lantern. But I find it pathetic that these writers had the golden opportunity to create an Original character with it's own history and story line and they can't do it. They only know how to rip off comic book characters.
For me i was between Laurel & Roy for the second vote while i voted for Thea (because she really doesnt do anything on the show to the point that they had to create a stupit story with her and Malcom) and eventually i voted Laurel because Roy doesnt really have much screen time so im just indifferent towards him while for Laurel there is this forced need to make her a hero that is really showing. I dont dislike her though,unlike in season 1 and 2.
While David Ramsay the actor would no doubt make an excellent John Stewart I can not for the life of me see that working out very well on Arrow. Introducing aliens, space cops and magic rings would mean they'd have to go full metapowered and let go of that last shred of realism they're still holding onto (it's thin after Oliver's survial, but it's still there)
If you asked me this before this season I would have said Laurel, hands down. But I'm liking her so much more this season so I guess I would say either Thea or Malcom Merlyn. I used to like Thea, but she's been getting on my nerves a lot lately.
My choices will be Laurel and Roy because it's too early for her to become BC and choosing her to be in the field while Diggle the one with Army background stayed in the foundry??? C'mon that so absurd. And Roy just because the inconsistency of his character.
A four member team was for especially large threats, not normal patrol. But yes, there is the problem of only having 42 min each week to distribute on characters.
Oh look, another anti-Laurel related poll. It's fine though, she's going nowhere and has just barely begun her journey as Black Canary so hate on all you want people.
Anyway, I voted for Malcolm, couldn't pick a 2nd option.
I get the feeling this poll was submitted a long time ago (don't know if admin clean out poll submissions to keep them current and relevant or if they all go into one big database to be randomed from) as Sara and Moira are included and Ray Palmer is not.
I'd rather have Thea as Oliver's partner. (Bro/sis smackdown!) Laurel/Thea would be 2 rookies together. It would make more sense to team them up with a "vet". I could also see Roy/Thea. Man I love this freakin show!
Oh let's be real, it's time to get Laurel and Roy the hell off my show so that I can get back to Oliver, the hero I agree to watch ARROW to see. Basic ass hero wannabes.
im fine with sceen time for main characters because this way the show focuses a bit on their POV. However i dont appreciate creating unbelievable stories and this season has many of these(Thea turns into a capable fighter,Laurel follows a superhero journey while Dig is sidelined). It just comes to the point that i feel that as a fan im being mistreated because obviously the writers thing that they can throw whatever they want on us and expect no reaction.
First off: IMO, the least favorite character is the result of the writers having not developed a character well, or giving a character a narrative that turns off the viewers. The best example of this is the "Dana" character on the Homeland show. And, unfortunately on Arrow, there have been several instances. Which leads me to my choice: Laurel Lance...who, according to the poll results after I voted, is way in the lead with over 500 votes vs. the next closest character (Felicity????) at 99 votes.
The problem with Laurel is what I've said several times in the past: Season 2. The alcoholic, self-centered character the writers made Laurel during that season so destroyed her in my mind, that all the rehabilitation the writers are attempting by transforming her into a beloved comic-book character (The Canary) just is NOT working. Katie Cassidy embodied the Bad Laurel character so well that viewers brought it, and are reluctant to change their view.
The second problem with the Laurel character is that her "heroic transformation" is hampered by the fact that she taking over the Canary character from an actress who was so much better at it: Caity Lotz. The show's producers said at comic-con one of the reasons they hired Lotz for the Sara Lance role is because of her physical looks--which made them want to "protect" her. This high lovability factor made it harder for the shows fans to accept Sara's murder (especially for a relatively "cheap" plot point--that could have been achieved other ways) in the opening episode of Season 3. Bottom line: replacing Lotz with Cassidy was a major mistake by the show, that they're still paying for in viewer discount.
Lastly, the Arrow writers, IMO, have a problem writing for women. They had Shado, who was also a strong woman like Sara, and killed. They had Moira, Oliver's strong (almost Lady Macbeth like) mother; and yes, they killed her off. So, there's a long, long history of the show seeming to not like strong women.
Several episodes ago, I would have said Roy, but he's growing on me as they flesh him out. But I never understood people's attachment to Sara. As a character, she bored me (which Laurel, for all the problematic writing and character development, has never done). She was most interesting when interacting with Nyssa, and that didn't happen nearly often enough.
So while I sincerely dislike Merlyn, at least he makes me feel something.
For me it used to be Laurel and Roy by far but i don't mind them that much now, though i guess that i still like them less that the others. The most weird result from this poll for me is Malcolm. Malcolm Merlyn/John Barrowman is awesome for me.
I think people are unhappy with they way Oliver keeps making bad choices...fighting Ra's very, very poorly; now working with Malcolm. And, Felicity has gone from being a very beloved fan fav to a nagging know-it-all. Terrible character development by the writers.
I keep reading that TV series audiences prefer fewer episodes because that way you get less "filler". The need for filler, creating endless mini-conflicts, may be destroying what use to be my favorite comic-book tv series.
Hopefully, this poll is a wake up call for the writers: and they step-up their game.
This poll means nothing, all you have to do is reload the page and you can vote again. No IP checks, no only 1 vote per user. There's more stuffing going on here than in Thanksgiving turkeys.
Laurel AND laurel simply because i feel like the writers are shoving her down my throat and forcing me to like her by making felicity her head cheerleader, by sidelining diggle and by killing the only canary i like, sara. These "casualties" actually made her my leastER than least favorite character.
Sorry. Felicity may be under fire at the moment while the show tries to give her the worst dialogue during this arc in an attempt to make Laurel work, but she'll always be the most beloved character on Arrow. Intelligent viewers are capable of seeing through the bull and the hard sell. Especially if the nose dive the ratings just took is any indication.
"The alcoholic, self-centered character the writers made Laurel during that season so destroyed her in my mind, that all the rehabilitation the writers are attempting by transforming her into a beloved comic-book character (The Canary) just is NOT working. Katie Cassidy embodied the Bad Laurel character so well that viewers brought it, and are reluctant to change their view."
I personally believe that the whole point of creating an anti heroic character(like season two Laurel) is to make the audience empathise with the character whatever the flaws. When a show writes a grey character and fails to make the fans invest on the story it means there is something wrong with the execution. With the exception of certain characters that are supposed to be hated(like Joffrey on GoT, the actor gave justice to the story of the character because the whole point was to hate him more than anything) most of the times the characters are created to be loved or at least appreciated. The season two Laurel was a big failure in my opinion, simple because she was supposed to be liked by the fans since we witnessed her story, her POV and the reasons she reacted the way she reacted or the things that led to her behavior. We also witnessed-since she is a main character-other character's reaction to her behavior and watched the big picture of her story. The fictional characters were supposed to be negative towards her addiction because they were oblivious to her POV and unaware of the full story but we (the fans) should empathise with her because we watched her POV we watched her being unfairly mistreated by other fictional characters and whatever drove her to react the way she reacted and we shoul watch her being in pain. So IMO both the writing and acting didnt give justice to the character as it should, because the fans watched her whole story and should invest on this story but at the end most of them were indifferent or irritated. If it was well executed , the fans would be divided because half of them would miss the point (these are the fans that dont care for character development but just want to watch certain things in a show) and other half would understand the motives of the character or feel bad for her and the way she was hurt. In this case,almost everyone didnt care.
It's not that I don't like him , I love all the characters on Arrow I just find him boring sometimes which is weird considering I really loved most of the Digglemif-centering episodes
Felicity and Oliver are easily my favorite characters on the show, but recently, the writing for Felicity has been pretty bad. I can't tell if they're trying to de-ship Olicity or if they're trying to ruin Felicity's character in order to prop up Laurel. Either way, her scenes have been frustrating. . Oliver may have made to bad decisions to collaborate wtih Malcolm and I understand her being angry, but the way she reacted to Oliver's presumed death and the way she's been treating him since he returned is not what I would have expected from someone who loved him. In fact, the only person who truly reacted with sheer joy at Oliver's return was Thea (and she didn't even know that he was declared dead). Oliver may have been a jerk at times, but his behavior is consistent with his character and his actions have been driven entirely by wanting to protect the people he loves. So I sort of understand the negative Felicity votes, the the negative Oliver votes make less sense. I'm also surprised that there weren't more votes for Malcolm Merlyn.
None of these. I don't particularly like some of the weekly villains they have sometimes, but no one from the main cast I think. Oh I didn't lik the Alderman character last year, but it wasn't a big hate either.
Malcolm-freaking-tediousness-Merlyn... I swear, just read a new interview, again of Guggenheim telling so awesomly how super interesting Malcolm is, how hard of a question it is if he's good or bad, really? Sure, because great parents all over the world killed on kid, and turned the other into a killer... And like he has some actual morality? He doesn't! For fuck's sake, I'm sorry, but it's the truth, that these last couple of episodes are going to be about if Malcolm can be redeemed or not, ugh, I'm already puking by the idea alone. We get it, you guys LOVE John Barrowman, but it doesn't mean that you can just keep going utterly off script with just screwing over DC Comics and suddenly making Malcolm some great guy. He's not, you've proven taht time and time again, but still you guys don't give a crap.
I REALLY don't understand why they keep making Malcolm like some grey area, while the things he's done are unforgivable, but hey, they still act like that's the most unavoidable things ever. I mean, for example those innocent lab workers that he just killed at the end of season 1 were necessary right? You know for what? TO COVER HIS OWN ASS! Like the whole reason he put Oliver and Thea in this life-threatening position and Malcolm is just a coward of humangous proportions, because he didn't want to face facts of Ra's, and thus instead decided to let both Oliver and Thea pay the price for him.
But yeah, it's SO hard Guggenheim, if Malcolm is a good guy, or the monstorous, unredeemable bastard that he really is. Crying almost once over Brick, is anything but proof that there's good in him. There's not. And that's why I hate him, his character, because they obviously can't decide if they can miss him or not, or whatever >.<
That's simple, that is because the producers and writers all seemingly agree that John Barrowman and thus Malcolm Merlyn is single-handedly the most awesome, great and amazing character that they have, and that the rest doesn't matter that much.
She's called him on his mistakes before, but in the past, her objections seemed to be driven more by reason, than hostility and resentment. When she yelled at him about collaborating with Malcolm I agreed with her 100%. But putting him down in front of everyone for sending Thea upstairs, while Laurel was bleeding came from a place of resentment to me. The only person who should have been upset was Thea, and she wasn't. The attitude of the team to Oliver feels more like mutiny to me. Oliver nearly died to keep Raj from killing other people and my guess is that all he could think about the entire time he was recovering, was getting back to protect the people he cared about and they're acting like they wish he hadn't returned. Team arrow sucks. All of them.
I agree. They do a dismal job of writing female characters and when they do have great characters they kill them off. I think Felicity has been one of the few well-written regular characters and I think that's because the actress played a major part in defining her role. And now they're messing with it. But there is definitely a tendency for the male characters to outlatst a lot of the female characters. And they should never have killed off Moira or Sara. Meanwhile, Slade, Malcolm and Ra's are all still. They're finally doing something decent with Thea, which makes me worry that they'll kill her off too.
The biggest mistake the writers have made was making Diggle a father! I dreaded it the moment it happened and it played out as expected... Terribly!
It was completely unnecessary and has now chained him to Arrow HQ where he is redundant. He cannot go in the field for fear of orphaning his child and he cannot do the data mining, scientific work or computer work as well as Felicity. Right now he is basically little more than a second voice on the coms.
For two whole season, it was Thea. But this season, not only has it seemed as if Willa Holland has taken some pointers from Barrowman(which makes sense with all the scenes they've shared), but this season has actually given Thea some meat in the storylines. The more boring characters have always been written as being in the dark when it comes to Ollie's secret identity, or when they're just not moving forward with anything. The same went for Tommy until he started to work for his father or Laurel until she started going after Arrow in the beginning of S2 which led to her fantastic arc of going down a spiral. Speaking of Laurel.....I am shocked and surprised how many votes she has received when the character has been fantastic since S2. So many "Laters". John Campea would be proud of you guys, lol.
I'm so glaaaaaad to read you. Really. I always thought that I was the only one who liked Laurel in Season 2. In my opinion, her character is really amazing. Laurel is one of the only characters in the show who is human. She has made mistakes and that's why I like her. I can can relate to Laurel. I can't do that with miss perfect Felicity and it's a reason why i'm not interested in her character.
And please everyone just stop with the Olicity. This ship pulls down the show...
clearly Laurel, no surprise she has by far the most votes. really bad actress and almost as bad writing. when will the writers understand that Katie Cassidy as Laurel as Black Canary doesn't work at all? they're trying so hard to make her a main part of the show, but it just gets worse and worse.
I personally think KC did really well in last episode even though Laurel is not my fave. She has totally improved since season 1(in which ill admitt i couldnt stand her portrayal of Laurel).
Laurel is my absolute fav female then Dig fav male. Thea 2nd fav male. Malcom fav evil character. He's not fully evil to me he has rays of wellness sometimes :P LOL
maybe well for her, but that's still pretty bad. She just doesn't have what it takes to pull of the role. It's really rare that I notice bad acting, but with Cassidy it's pretty much every scene. I actually didn't dislike her that much when watching season 1, I think both the acting and the character got worse starting season 2.
Laurel is the only character i don't like and don't want to see on Arrow. The way she's been pushed to the front this season has just made it worse.
I don't like Malcolm Merlyn as a character but Barrowman is fun to watch as he chews the scenery. And he is genuinely grateful to his fans and tells them so. (As opposed to canceling con appearances and then showing up in Dallas anyway as cough cough does.)
Olicity immature fan girls teaming just to vote for Laurel as least favourite. I've seen the posts promoting to vote Laurel as least favourite on social media. Salty af LOL
I voted Merlyn and Felicity. Merlyn because he's an actual facts villain with zero redeeming qualities, and Felicity because she's grating and all her scenes are the same these days. I loved season 1 Felicity, but love interest, super hero whispering Felicity is a real drag.
Usually when there's intesnse dislike of a character, it is often is shipping-related (e.g. I could see people disliking Ray Palmer for begin an obstacle to Olicity). However, I don't think that's the case with Laurel, since most people don't regard her as a threat to Olicity. Sara was a much bigger threat to Olicity than Laurel ever was, and she was very popular with fans of the show (including Olicity fans).
I know....I watched one of the those comic-con panel, and there's clearly this huge bromance between the actor and the producer. He got far more attention during the panel than his character merited.
I don't think they will move Roy from Oliver's shadow for at least one more season. He is Oliver's first sidekick. He needs more years before he can go to other teams.
But is that the reason why he is not going to the field? I thought when he came back to the crusade after Sara's death the whole "you are a father you are out " thing was put to rest. If this is the reason then show needs to explain it to us audience. They need to show us Diggle feeling reluctant to go on field. Also this does not explain why Diggle would sit back and send Laurel and Roy to face Brick whom he himself faced the previous day and got his ass kicked.
With the things as they are in the show nothing can justify Diggle not going to field in Midnight City, Uprising and Canaries while inexperienced Laurel is out there. The funny thing is all they had to do was just break his arm or leg during the fight with Brick in "Left Behind" and put him in a cast for 4 episodes. Problem solved. But then again you need to work on all aspects on the show to plug plot holes not just on glamour and action.
I don't get all of the overwhelming hate for Laurel specifically, but I understand that we each have our own opinions on the characters and it just so happens that she rubs a lot of viewers the wrong way. I think Katie Cassidy is a somewhat weaker actor at times, but I support her rise to the Black Canary role. Oliver and Roy's constant belittling and telling her she's not capable or ready really aggravates me, given that they both wouldn't want someone standing in their way, but yet they feel they can micromanage her. My only issue with her, besides the acting at times, is that there are so many downs for her and she's constantly depressed or upset in some capacity. I don't want her to fall into the trap Oliver has, where the Black Canary consumes her and doesn't allow her to have a life.
I like Felicity and Diggle, although Diggle is underutilized lately. Lately as in... the past two seasons, pretty much I was so excited when he joined Oliver in the first season, and while he's been a good sidekick, you could remove him from an episode and completely forget that he was part of the show. I don't know what they can do with his character to reverse this, but I hope they do, as I like him.
Roy I can take or leave, and Thea I've liked since the beginning. I love that she's in-the-know now and can fight alongside Oliver. (Although, we know Oliver will, yet again, not want her to be a part of much because he's too protective. Sigh.)
Apparently once a character develops, reacts and is affected by the events of the story getting more darker and serious while not being all smiley and cheerful people hate them. I love funny Felicity but i appreciate more this season Felicity. She has a stronger personality. After all im sure once the drama is over she will be happy/cheerful/funny again.
I used to like Felicity's character, but this season she's started to seriously annoy the sh*t out of me. She's become extremely self-righteous and unlikable and she acts like she knows best and then bullies/guilts others into doing it her way. She's actually making me not dislike Laurel as much, and I've never been a fan of her character.
At this point in time, I actually think Thea is the best female character on the show and that's saying a lot. Though, that's only because they went and killed the two best female characters they had on the show- Sara and Moira. I don't care what anyone says, I liked Moira.
The level of obnoxious that Felicity has become is actually making Laurel not seem as bad. AND in addition to her being annoying, the level of annoying of her fans is making me dislike her even more. I actually was a major fan of hers, but now because I'm criticizing her recent decisions and behavior, I've become a 'hater' who can't let go of my obvious irrational hatred of the character. I just can't take their BS.
I'm completely with you on Sara and Moira. They don't really have any decent female characters left. Even annoying Thea is outdoing all the rest of the females on the show. Hell, Nyssa even, and we barely see her.
That's EXACTLY the way I feel. Felicity has been annoying me a lot, but especially this back half of the season. And Laurel is still annoying, but is improving. I actually think that how bad Felicity has been behaving makes me like Laurel better.
And I agree about Ray. I could really do without him.
Because she's become an obnoxious, self-righteous bitch who's mad at Oliver because he didn't run home and immediately fulfill all her fantasies, and so is now looking to get her pot shots in where she can.
Add that to the massive mess she made of the Brick situation, while taking absolutely no responsibility for what it turned into and then slamming an idea that could have taken care of their situation, which lead to a bunch of innocent, non-fighters in the Glades having to come and save them. But of course, she sat in her nice cushy van the whole time.
She is not but i wont try to convince you since you seem to really hate her for a fictional character to actually reply to every comment on this thread saying how "self-righteous, arrogant b*tch" she is! Like serioulsy not everyone cares about your opinion. You can summarise it in one post.
Oliver screws up a lot, but right now he's fine. Felicity's recent behavior has created a bit of a divide, I think. Felicity's fans are all on her side and are mad at Oliver because he's not doing what Felicity wants. And then there are the people who see Felicity's behavior for what it is, obnoxious, arrogant, self-righteous, petty, small, bitchy, nasty, etc. She's no longer a likable character. Even the way she went on with her own mother.
She called him on his mistakes and his BS before. NOW she's just being a b*tch. No one expects her to just agree with him all the time, not at all. She didn't before, but I didn't dislike her character until this season. She's become self-righteous and arrogant about it, mad at him because he isn't loving her the way she wants, while she's running around doing what she wants, including stringing along another man and working with the person who took and renamed Oliver's family's legacy. She's not likable anymore.
I don't see that working with Malcolm is poor judgment. Thea is upset with him, but even she can see that they need him. It's a matter of using his knowledge to help improve the situation, but they're not putting any trust in him beyond trusting him to work in his own self-interest. He can't beat Ra's himself, so he'll be invested in making Oliver and Thea the best they can be, even if just to save his own ass.
The rest I mostly agree with. She's not behaving like someone who truly loves this man. All of her behavior seems to be very selfishly motivated. Though we saw the beginnings of it when she decided it was her right to tell Oliver Moira's secret. She didn't do that for him, she did that for herself, and in doing so hurt him. And when you think about it, that one decision led them down the path they're on now. If Felicity had kept that secret, a secret that was not hers to tell, to herself, then when Slade pulled out that card, Oliver would have been in the dark as Thea and she would have still had her brother to rely on. Then she wouldn't have been vulnerable to, and left with, Malcolm. He wouldn't have been able to drug her into killing Sara and would have had nothing to use to send Oliver to fight Ra's. And it all goes back to this one selfish decision that Felicity made to keep herself happy. And now, she's selfishly mad at him because he didn't come back and immediately run into her arms like she fantasized and is trying to make him pay for it.
I used to like her character, but it's been VERY hard to like her this season, especially the back half of it. No one is expecting her to be a doormat and to not call him out, but we'd like for her to treat this man like someone that she does love, like she claims, and to not be so petty and small in her eagerness to hurt him.
"Lastly, the Arrow writers, IMO, have a problem writing for women. They had Shado, who was also a strong woman like Sara, and killed. They had Moira, Oliver's strong (almost Lady Macbeth like) mother; and yes, they killed her off. So, there's a long, long history of the show seeming to not like strong women."
THIS! THIS!!! Those were some spectacular female characters they had and they killed them of in favor of weaker, more obnoxious characters. And then they're turned Felicity, one of their less annoying female characters into a self-righteous b*tch.
I agree, Felicity was one of their strongest female characters. It's just sad what they've done to her. And I have a feeling, they're not going to have a moment where she pulls back and realizes what she's become and shifts. It will be Oliver who backs down as if he was wrong, but in this case, he's not.
I used to like her as well, but they've not been playing her character well. The one thing I find a bit obnoxious about too many of Felicity's fans. They act like you can't have been a fan of her character if you're criticizing her now, but that's far from being true.
She's not anymore a beloved fan fav. People are getting tired of her behaviour. This comment below was posted after 3x12 and many people agreed with this guy.
" Screw Felicity. Also, screw all y'all shippers all right? Good. That's all you give a shit about, romance. Well excuse us fans who actually watch the show for story telling and superheroes and not for your Olicity, Lauriver, Snowbarry, WestAllen or whatever the hell you want to call it. Romance is one part of superheroes not every single part! No offense to Emily but I couldn't stand Felicity anymore. All she does is whine and whine and whine. She's like a love sick puppy prowling all over Oliver."
She's become MASSIVELY self-righteous. But given that you seem to be a deluded Felicity fan, I won't try to convince you otherwise.
Personally, I was a massive fan of her character. Hell, I worked hard to convince a friend to watch the show and told her to hold out for Felicity, because she'd love her. This season, though, her character has taken a steep dive into crap, and as someone who WAS a major fan of her character, I'm not happy about it.
yeah sure i respect your opinion. Could you now stop spreading hate in every comment on this thread? It comes more as blatant hate than constructive criticism.After all you wont change my opinion i obvioulsy expect different things in a show and the characters than you.
Agreed on Malcolm. It is not only a wise choice to work with him - it is the only choice! To not use him to to their benefit in their moment of necessity would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. It is just more damage to yourself in the end.
I have always liked Felicity, but I agree with you (and many others). This year she has evolved into a far less likable character. The last handful of episodes leave me actually disliking her, or at least her actions and choice of words. Her passive-aggressive attitude wears on me almost as bad as Laurel did last year.
Thankfully Laurel has gotten much better.... At least when not trying to use a tonfa like a billy club that is XD
Sara was the best. I'm still sad that she is gone. And I was so pissed when Felicity said to Laurel "You have a light inside of you that Sara never had".
I like Thea since the beginning. The same goes with Oliver. I'm really happy that in the next episode will be more scene between them.
I agree Felicity has been annoying the past couple of episodes but Laurel who is the female lead having 52% is outrageous. Surprised by Malcolm as well.
Is Laurel the female lead? I mean that as an honest question...
Of course Oliver is the true "lead" of the show. Then I have always considered Diggle and Felicity to be the next core roles with everyone else being supporting or recurring cast.
Tbh, Arrow and Detective lance. I like Arrow but I just think the others are cooler and detective lance isn't really a big part of the show this season
Yeah its fine having a personal opinion but spreading hate all over the place to make sure everyone sees it is weird. He/She is actually copy-pasting his/her replies same way a troll does. Looks like just he/she came out of those nasty imdb pages.
Just because Laurel wants to fight with them doesn't mean they have to let her. If Laurel were training to be a CIA operative and stubbornly insisted on going out on a field mission three months after training, she would be considered extremely reckless. So I don't see this as any different. Oliver and Roy aren't belittling her. They're just telling her the truth. She isn't ready. If they weren't dealing with life and death situations, then it would be fine to placate her and encourage her to "get out there and fight". But in a situation where inexperience results in death, then they are absolutely right. Both Oliver and Sara went through hell before they were ready. Diggle also had extensive training. Roy had been fighting his entire life and still went through a lot before Oliver would trust him as part of the team. So I don't understand why Laurel deserves the special treatment, especially when her stubborness could actually compromise a mission.
This is a fictional script, so the writers will allow Laurel to miraculously survive all of her screw-ups and overcome the most dangerous of foes, but I wish they had tried to be a bit more realistic. To me, everyone who made it on Team Arrow had something special that made them invaluable to the mission. Why should they put their lives in the hands of someone who isn't as experienced just because she wants to join them? The whole plot is ridiculous.
Wait a minute! Wait wait! I just realized I don't like Felicity this season also! holy dang, I didn't care about her this season so I didn't notice that I didn't like her this season. Well she just got grouped with Laurel & Ray for me.
Oliver refused to train Laurel because he doesn't want her to fight. She came to him and he shut her down. One thing I hate is that Oliver can seemingly do anything he wants, but if he cares about someone, he doesn't want them at risk so he shuts them out as long as he can. I get that that's a normal reaction that any person would have: you don't want friends/family to be injured or killed. However, he disregards what anyone thinks about him being subjected to dangerous, life-or-death scenarios because... he just can. At the end of the day, Oliver is going to do Oliver despite what Felicity, Diggle, or Roy could say. Laurel hasn't gotten the same level of training as Roy and Oliver, but their refusal to even train her themselves is incredibly irritating and will only motivate Laurel to get in on the action even more. Anyway, she has been learning self-defense and such and I think the hands on, life-threatening experience so far has helped her more than any sideline training could do.
Laurel can make decisions for herself. If she wants to fight crime in Starling City, she can. Oliver doesn't have to "let her" do anything. She doesn't have to be an official part of Team Arrow in order to fight for her sister as the Black Canary, anyway. She's finding her purpose, and isn't that what Oliver and Roy did as well? Why aren't we talking about Roy's initial arrogance and insisting he becomes a part of the action? He made things tough for Team Arrow yet they stuck by him and now many fans consider him a critical part of the team. He didn't always play by Oliver's rules and has put Team Arrow at risk several times.
My point exactly about Roy. Poeple seem to forget that Roy went through the ringer before Oliver actually trusted him, and he had tons more experience than Laurel. So why are people getting upset when Oliver objects to Laurel? Oliver's harsh speech to Laurel is nothing compared to what he put Roy through...Oliver even shot Roy with an arrow to keep him off the streets and if he hadn't been given Mirakuru, I'm not entirely sure that Oliver would have taken him under his wings. So the expectation that Laurel should be able to join in and fight just because she wants to is ridiculous, especially given what Roy went through. And yes, Laurel can do whatever she wants, but if she's showing up at the same places they're showing up, then she actually will compromise what they do. She got hurt the last time, so Oliver had to stop what he was doing to attend to her.
People were allowed two votes, which makes the 52% seem even stranger, because it would would mean that nearly everyone picked Laurel (unless most people made only one selection) . Based on the comments, she seems to have a good number of supporters, so the 52% almost doesn't make sense. BTW...I don't consider Laurel the female lead anymore. It may have been the original intention at the beginning, but I think that spot goes to Felicity now.
I think most people are saying Felicity because of how she acted on The Return episode. Overall this season she's been great. Laurel has definitely approved. Oliver has become annoying this annoying this season...actually the whole Queen family (Thear & Oliver) has been annoying this season.
Poor sad little person. Can't take the fact that someone has an opinion about Felicity that does not match yours. Seriously, you and Mandy... really need to grow up.
I wouldn't say that overall she's been great. She started the season okay and has been getting progressively worse, coming to a head after the midseason break.
Oliver is always a bit of a screw up, I think mainly because of his issues with taking too much responsibility for what happens around him. He definitely deserves to be called out for some of the things he's done, but the way the team has been going after him after his near death experience is too much. The only one who is attempting approach him in a reasonable way is Digg. Let's just go back to the days of Oliver and Digg, before they included anyone else on this mission. Oliver has someone to stand up to him, but not be a prick about it.
Laurel and Ray because the writers seem to be bending over backwards just to try to incorporate them into the narrative which isn't indicative of a good character, or one that belongs in the show.
Mostly I'm bitter because these two make Felicity act sort of out of character and the sheer amount of energy it took to make Laurel relevant (sidelining Diggle, Felicity's approval at the expense of her character, Oliver's death, Sara's death, dumbing down of Quentin to keep up Laurel's drama) is just exhausting.
Was Laurel okay in the last few episodes? I guess, but what kills it was that it was at the expense of other characters.
That's cause Sara was such an awesome character, you couldn't dislike her even then :-P
I think I actually have a unique reason for disliking Ray, not connected to shipping. It's actually connected more to the actor. He reminds me of the governor of my state, Florida, with his buggy bug eyes, and I REEEEEALLY can't stand the governor of my state. He's kind of a douche. So that dislike bleeds over to Brandon Routh, even though he seems like a nice enough guy.
she is. she always was supposed to be and while for some time Felicity seemed to be far more present on the show, now Laurel is clearly in the focus. but in my opinion it becomes more and more obvious that neither the character nor the actress are suited for taking a lead role. Thus all the dislike.
I'm not sure she's different, but just more of the same--no growth as a character. And there is definitely a whinny quality that wasn't there before. All that said: Felicity is still the " moral center" of the show. Which makes her being viewed negatively by so many fans puzzling.
If she remained all happy and cheerful, haters will call her a one dimensional character. If she asserts herself and takes a stand, they call her a bitch.
Yes exactly,i think its more about hating just for the sake of hating. The actress is doing a very good job with the character IMO which means that people who hate the character do it because : a) they are irritated with the way the fans and media make it all about her b)They are comic book fanatics that are threatened that she interferes in their canon duo (that why you see people suggesting that she moves to a spin off with Ray) c) People who liked her being funny are upset that there is such a lack of comedy in the show now and apparently dont care for her character development(thats why they dont appreciate her point of view when arguing with the main hero of the show) but only for her funny one liners.
Multiple reason: 1) They are at least open to the idea that they're ideas and decisions aren't the best one and are willing to hear other points of view. Felicity is consistently and arrogantly convinced that her way is the best way; 2) I'm not a huge fan of Laurel anyway, so my expectations for her were in the toilet. On the flip side, I was a huge fan of Felicity, so I'm REALLY unhappy with the direction her character has taken. I was reading another article that described her as a scorned woman, and I think that's, sadly, a pretty accurate description of the direction her character is going in; and 3) the reasons for Felicity having sunk in my esteem go beyond just that one decision, as I did mention above.
It would be interesting to see the Huntress come back, to see how differently she'd behave now that her father is dead. She would be an interesting option for a teach for Laurel.
I think beyond the first season, there's really no reason to hate Quentin. He became very likable once he was able to let go of his hatred and anger, it made him a much nicer person. Not to say that he wasn't justified, but that he's become a lot less painful to watch.
Because she's gone beyond being 'moral' to being self-righteous. Personally, I see Digg as being more of the moral center. Because he's not as convinced of his own rightness. You need to be flexible and Felicity is just not that, definitely not right now.
That term 'haters'... Whoever came up with it needs to get smacked. Negative criticism =/= 'hater'.
Either way, Felicity asserted herself prior to now on multiple occasions and no one called her a bitch. The reason she's being called a bitch is because at this point in the show, she's acting like one.
I hate to see all the Felicity hate. She's been through a lot. When you have a friend who's going though a rough time, do you abandon them just because they haven't been acting like they usually do? People change over time, if they didn't it would mean they weren't living. You can't go back to the same person you were 3 years ago so why does everyone expect Felicity to? This is just a season for her, and for every emotion there is a season. You weren't a true fan if you can easily decide to dislike her. She's going to grown and change over the next few years as a character, now its your choice if you want to stick around and watch.
It's sad that people today seem to be so simple-minded that they can't understand that feelings can change. Or that liking someone doesn't have to be absolute. They can do something or reveal other parts to their personality that completely turn you off. I'm glad that all people aren't quite as simple-minded as you, otherwise I would be EXTREMELY frustrated constantly.
That's why the the show can have a 100 episodes or more, 22 episodes a year,its nonsense that they can't focus on that many people. With good time management they can write for everyone. But of course so called "original" team arrow fans are closed off, they don't want to believe and see it differently.
So what are you saying they are doing a good job now or they are not? You are saying they are focusing on every character and it made sense for Diggle to stay in the Arrow cave for past 3 episodes when people with less fight training was going out. They could have simply broke his femur or dislocated his shoulder or god forbid send him away for some reason for couple of episodes instead of insulting our intelligence. I love all the characters of this show. I like Roy and Laurel. I loved the way they improved Laurel this season. But bad writing is bad writing. And right now the way they are treating the character of Diggle is the prime example of bad writing.
Go ahead and accuse me of being an original Team Arrow fan and Olicity fan. I will take that as a compliment coming from you.
I don't know if you ever saw CSI Las Vegas. There was a time when they had two teams there. One who did the evening shift lead by Catherine and one who did the graveyard shift lead by Grissom. Both teams had different cases in the same episode. Then every 2 or 3 episodes their cases will come together and they all will work together. That's what I meant with B team. Not that one team is better than the other. I said Laurel/Thea on the top of my head. It can be Roy/Thea/Sin too. Something has to be done. I don't see how all these warriors go about fighting for the same mission every night.
People being disappointed in their favorite character doesn't mean that they hate her now. Maybe one or two people do (and those same people keep posting repeatedly), but it doesn't seem to be a general thing. A lot of people seem to be pissed off with Oliver too and no one has a problem with that. Being a fan of a character doesn't mean that you unconditionally support and make excuses for everything they do. I actually hate when fans do that, because it means that they can't think objectively. Also, giving people the "you're not a true fan" speech just because they object to something that a character does seems very counter-productive to an open discussion. Felicity is my favorite character, but her attitude these past few episodes is grating on me.I really don't see how her actions could be seen as progress for her character at all. Acting like a slighted girlfriend isn't really progress for her character. It's a human emotion, that I can sort of empathize with, but it most certainly isn't progress.
BTW, I actually think your friend analogy is more applicable to Team Arrow, because despite everything they've been through with Oliver, I get the feeling that one or two of them on the verge of quitting the team. What if Felicity left Oliver and started working full-time with Ray...would that mean that she wasn't really Oliver's friend?
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
I don't hate nobody, but Oliver this season is getting in my nerves
ReplyDeleteIt's a tough one as I don't hate anyone on the show. Laurel had problems but I think she has improved a lot.
ReplyDeleteIf I was allowed none regulars I'd go for the Huntress who I think has been very mishandled and the first Count Vertigo.
Ummm sorry but Moira was HBIC! She was awesome. I still cry when i think of her.
ReplyDeleteIf I had to choose, that would be Sara and Thea.
ReplyDeleteFor me is the ex-couple Thea and Roy....both of them are boring and sometimes irritating. IMO
ReplyDeleteHopefully Thea gets better not that she knows Oliver is The Arrow.
ReplyDeleteits funny that the dead characters are more annoying then those that are currently alive.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the people voting for Moira are ones who only watched a few episodes of the show before dropping it so they don't know the current characters that are still around.
ReplyDeleteVery easy choice for me-Ray & Malcolm.Oliver & Laurel came very close.
ReplyDeleteWell Sara was in season 2 so some of them most have seen that too.
ReplyDeleteLaurel
ReplyDeleteMerlyn
Honorable mention:
Oliver
Roy (mostly for the acting, or lack thereof)
Why is Ray not on this? But if I had to choose from here it would be Laurel, because fuck u laurel till ur fixed.
ReplyDeleteLaurel!!
ReplyDeleteMalcom...and Thea, she is not what she used to be in the first season...
ReplyDeletei hate to admit it but Laurel is starting to grow on me a bit ... that being said she's still my least favourite character
ReplyDeleteStill on s1, don't care for Laurel, and Felicity is trying too hard to be cute just comes off awkward. Sorry Felicity fans.
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
ReplyDeleteWell, this season Felicity has been pretty much annoying to me. Laurel is, too, but somehow not that much anymore. So I take both of them, since Ray isn't on the list.
ReplyDeleteWho hates Quentin?????????? How is this even possible?!!
ReplyDeleteDo I really need to answer? Anyone who has read a single comment of mine can guess my answer lol
But I'll choose anyway
Laurel Lance and the despicable Malcolm Merlyn, and a dishonourable mention to Ray Palmer (UGH)
I voted for Laurel and Roy. Roy strictly for acting purposes. Otherwise love the sidekick.
ReplyDeleteLaurel is so much better this season and I don't want to scream when she is on screen. But season 1 and 2 I couldn't stand her and in season 3 I still think it was unnecessary to rush her into vigilante mode. She needs more training. They could have went about it in a different way.
Honestly right now at this point I like all the characters. But I still say with heavy heart Diggle needs to be written off before he becomes stale.
"before he becomes stale." before??!
ReplyDeleteMore stale???
ReplyDeleteThis is one of those times when the main character is my least favorite. Oliver has his moments, but overall i don't like him any more. Everyone else has really grown on me, when Oliver just annoys me a lot anymore.
ReplyDeleteThat's more accurate.
ReplyDeleteI wanted Dig to become head of ARGUS, but the writers don't seem to be on the same page.
ReplyDeleteI voted for Malcolm Merlyn and Thea Queen.
ReplyDeleteFelicity all the way. She is the only one I dislike (actually hate) on the show and the only reason why I don't turn it live. I will watch online day after and skip all the scenes with her in it.
ReplyDeleteI must say yesterdays episode there was a scene where i wanted to throw up. With Merlyn & Roy just hanging outside Thea's door when she was having sex with the DJ Douchebag. So i voted those two.
ReplyDeleteEither they over throw Waller by the end of the season, make Diggle ARGUS head and make him a recurring character bringing him in episodes strictly necessary OR they need to make Thea and Laurel into a B team and make them recurring characters who gets separate missions which sometimes connect with Team Arrow missions. Roy is Oliver's side kick so he belongs with him. You can't move Felicity because she is the tech support. She is safe for a long time.
ReplyDeleteIt's getting really crowded in the Arrow cave.
Malcolm by a universe.
ReplyDeleteI don't know. I hope they have a real game plan but doesn't seem like it.
ReplyDeleteDiggle's character had real purpose in the first 2 seasons but now he just feels like dead weight, sadly.
They didn't even explore that HIVE thing and it was mentioned 1 and a half year without the mention.
Exactly. HIVE should have been an ongoing mystery which comes up every few episodes. They killed his brother. Its hard to imagine Diggle sitting on this without any action for this long time. No research nothing.
ReplyDeleteIn the comics, the most members Team Arrow (a term that orginated there, and not on the show btw) had going out in the field was four, Oliver, his son Connor, Mia (Speedy) and Black Canary. Roy was busy with his own teams by then.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the show, Oliver's kid is unlikely to be a factor during the show's run. So we'll have Oliver, Roy, Laurel and Thea, with Felicity in the tech support/Oracle role
But yes, as more and more people are coming into their comic book roles orginal characters like Diggle are becoming somewhat superfluous. Something even Guggenheim has acknowledged in that they're struggling to include Diggle in the field now. I think overthrowing Amanda Waller and installing Diggle as the new head of ARGUS works nicely to retire him from field duty, he can then move to reoccuring and appear to help Oliver and the team with resources as neccesary.
Probably some will be revealed in th SS episode. Could see Diggle getting kidnapped in the season finale for to much snooping. That would be funny.
ReplyDeleteI really don't know what story they'll have in mind for S4 but HIVE could be a good choice as an opponent.
It would, HIVE and flashbacks to the Bratva/Russian period might work well together as a plotline.
ReplyDeleteLaurel, Laurel & Laurel
ReplyDeleteCan't believe people are choosing Oliver or Felicity
ReplyDeleteI love Diggle. He was actually the only character I loved in the pilot episode. It was love at first scene. But I would rather Diggle be given an honorable exit than watch nonsense like last episode where he is sidelined over someone with no experience. Either make him recurring or write him off.
ReplyDeleteA four member fighting team may have worked in comics but personally I think two fighters are the perfect number for normal missions. Hell they have trouble writing for more than 3 people in the arrow cave. Roy hardly had ny dialogue in season 3A. How on earth are they going to write for 6 with Thea and Laurel?
It would. From what I have read HIVE is a huge thing. It would need a season long arc. But they could have laid more stones while getting there. Let Diggle get some clues. Send him away to investigate somewhere.
ReplyDeleteTheirs something big coming for Diggle so they do seem to have plans for him.
ReplyDeletehttp://comicbook.com/2015/02/06/exclusive-arrows-diggle-david-ramsey-talks-suicide-squad-and-gre/
Apparently theirs serious discussion on Diggle becoming Green Lantern (John Stewart) too.
Yep would be a neat combination. But still have to overcome the painful HK flashbacks. And they still didn't explain how Oliver learned to fly.
ReplyDeleteI don't mind him being Green Lantern. But I find it pathetic that these writers had the golden opportunity to create an Original character with it's own history and story line and they can't do it. They only know how to rip off comic book characters.
ReplyDeleteFor me i was between Laurel & Roy for the second vote while i voted for Thea (because she really doesnt do anything on the show to the point that they had to create a stupit story with her and Malcom) and eventually i voted Laurel because Roy doesnt really have much screen time so im just indifferent towards him while for Laurel there is this forced need to make her a hero that is really showing. I dont dislike her though,unlike in season 1 and 2.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they did just we didn't notice them. ^_^
ReplyDeleteWhile David Ramsay the actor would no doubt make an excellent John Stewart I can not for the life of me see that working out very well on Arrow. Introducing aliens, space cops and magic rings would mean they'd have to go full metapowered and let go of that last shred of realism they're still holding onto (it's thin after Oliver's survial, but it's still there)
ReplyDeleteBecause we are blind and dumb :O
ReplyDeleteIf you asked me this before this season I would have said Laurel, hands down. But I'm liking her so much more this season so I guess I would say either Thea or Malcom Merlyn. I used to like Thea, but she's been getting on my nerves a lot lately.
ReplyDeleteMost likely.
ReplyDeleteMy choices will be Laurel and Roy because it's too early for her to become BC and choosing her to be in the field while Diggle the one with Army background stayed in the foundry??? C'mon that so absurd. And Roy just because the inconsistency of his character.
ReplyDeleteA four member team was for especially large threats, not normal patrol. But yes, there is the problem of only having 42 min each week to distribute on characters.
ReplyDeleteOh look, another anti-Laurel related poll. It's fine though, she's going nowhere and has just barely begun her journey as Black Canary so hate on all you want people.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I voted for Malcolm, couldn't pick a 2nd option.
I get the feeling this poll was submitted a long time ago (don't know if admin clean out poll submissions to keep them current and relevant or if they all go into one big database to be randomed from) as Sara and Moira are included and Ray Palmer is not.
ReplyDeleteI'd rather have Thea as Oliver's partner. (Bro/sis smackdown!) Laurel/Thea would be 2 rookies together. It would make more sense to team them up with a "vet". I could also see Roy/Thea.
ReplyDeleteMan I love this freakin show!
Oh let's be real, it's time to get Laurel and Roy the hell off my show so that I can get back to Oliver, the hero I agree to watch ARROW to see. Basic ass hero wannabes.
ReplyDeleteim fine with sceen time for main characters because this way the show focuses a bit on their POV. However i dont appreciate creating unbelievable stories and this season has many of these(Thea turns into a capable fighter,Laurel follows a superhero journey while Dig is sidelined). It just comes to the point that i feel that as a fan im being mistreated because obviously the writers thing that they can throw whatever they want on us and expect no reaction.
ReplyDeleteI vote for Laurel & Ray Palmer
ReplyDeleteFirst off: IMO, the least favorite character is the result of the writers having not developed a character well, or giving a character a narrative that turns off the viewers. The best example of this is the "Dana" character on the Homeland show. And, unfortunately on Arrow, there have been several instances. Which leads me to my choice: Laurel Lance...who, according to the poll results after I voted, is way in the lead with over 500 votes vs. the next closest character (Felicity????) at 99 votes.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Laurel is what I've said several times in the past: Season 2. The alcoholic, self-centered character the writers made Laurel during that season so destroyed her in my mind, that all the rehabilitation the writers are attempting by transforming her into a beloved comic-book character (The Canary) just is NOT working. Katie Cassidy embodied the Bad Laurel character so well that viewers brought it, and are reluctant to change their view.
The second problem with the Laurel character is that her "heroic transformation" is hampered by the fact that she taking over the Canary character from an actress who was so much better at it: Caity Lotz. The show's producers said at comic-con one of the reasons they hired Lotz for the Sara Lance role is because of her physical looks--which made them want to "protect" her. This high lovability factor made it harder for the shows fans to accept Sara's murder (especially for a relatively "cheap" plot point--that could have been achieved other ways) in the opening episode of Season 3. Bottom line: replacing Lotz with Cassidy was a major mistake by the show, that they're still paying for in viewer discount.
Lastly, the Arrow writers, IMO, have a problem writing for women. They had Shado, who was also a strong woman like Sara, and killed. They had Moira, Oliver's strong (almost Lady Macbeth like) mother; and yes, they killed her off. So, there's a long, long history of the show seeming to not like strong women.
I know..been there too
ReplyDeleteSeveral episodes ago, I would have said Roy, but he's growing on me as they flesh him out. But I never understood people's attachment to Sara. As a character, she bored me (which Laurel, for all the problematic writing and character development, has never done). She was most interesting when interacting with Nyssa, and that didn't happen nearly often enough.
ReplyDeleteSo while I sincerely dislike Merlyn, at least he makes me feel something.
For me it used to be Laurel and Roy by far but i don't mind them that much now, though i guess that i still like them less that the others. The most weird result from this poll for me is Malcolm. Malcolm Merlyn/John Barrowman is awesome for me.
ReplyDeleteI think people are unhappy with they way Oliver keeps making bad choices...fighting Ra's very, very poorly; now working with Malcolm. And, Felicity has gone from being a very beloved fan fav to a nagging know-it-all. Terrible character development by the writers.
ReplyDeleteI keep reading that TV series audiences prefer fewer episodes because that way you get less "filler". The need for filler, creating endless mini-conflicts, may be destroying what use to be my favorite comic-book tv series.
Hopefully, this poll is a wake up call for the writers: and they step-up their game.
This poll means nothing, all you have to do is reload the page and you can vote again. No IP checks, no only 1 vote per user. There's more stuffing going on here than in Thanksgiving turkeys.
ReplyDeleteLaurel AND laurel simply because i feel like the writers are shoving her down my throat and forcing me to like her by making felicity her head cheerleader, by sidelining diggle and by killing the only canary i like, sara. These "casualties" actually made her my leastER than least favorite character.
ReplyDeleteEasily circumvented by use of various proxys I'm affraid
ReplyDeletehow is malcolm less hated that laurel the fuck
ReplyDeleteSorry. Felicity may be under fire at the moment while the show tries to give her the worst dialogue during this arc in an attempt to make Laurel work, but she'll always be the most beloved character on Arrow. Intelligent viewers are capable of seeing through the bull and the hard sell. Especially if the nose dive the ratings just took is any indication.
ReplyDeleteNope, afraid not. Proxy votes are removed
ReplyDelete"The alcoholic, self-centered character the writers made Laurel during
ReplyDeletethat season so destroyed her in my mind, that all the rehabilitation the
writers are attempting by transforming her into a beloved comic-book
character (The Canary) just is NOT working. Katie Cassidy embodied the
Bad Laurel character so well that viewers brought it, and are reluctant
to change their view."
I personally believe that the whole point of creating an anti heroic character(like season two Laurel) is to make the audience empathise with the character whatever the flaws. When a show writes a grey character and fails to make the fans invest on the story it means there is something wrong with the execution. With the exception of certain characters that are supposed to be hated(like Joffrey on GoT, the actor gave justice to the story of the character because the whole point was to hate him more than anything) most of the times the characters are created to be loved or at least appreciated. The season two Laurel was a big failure in my opinion, simple because she was supposed to be liked by the fans since we witnessed her story, her POV and the reasons she reacted the way she reacted or the things that led to her behavior. We also witnessed-since she is a main character-other character's reaction to her behavior and watched the big picture of her story. The fictional characters were supposed to be negative towards her addiction because they were oblivious to her POV and unaware of the full story but we (the fans) should empathise with her because we watched her POV we watched her being unfairly mistreated by other fictional characters and whatever drove her to react the way she reacted and we shoul watch her being in pain. So IMO both the writing and acting didnt give justice to the character as it should, because the fans watched her whole story and should invest on this story but at the end most of them were indifferent or irritated. If it was well executed , the fans would be divided because half of them would miss the point (these are the fans that dont care for character development but just want to watch certain things in a show) and other half would understand the motives of the character or feel bad for her and the way she was hurt. In this case,almost everyone didnt care.
Very good, I'm impressed.
ReplyDelete:)
ReplyDeleteDiggle
ReplyDeletewait..what? Explain please :)
ReplyDeleteIt's not that I don't like him , I love all the characters on Arrow I just find him boring sometimes which is weird considering I really loved most of the Digglemif-centering episodes
ReplyDeletei think its because this season the writers dont give him anything to do.
ReplyDeleteTomfoolery. How dare you!?
ReplyDeleteFelicity and Oliver are easily my favorite characters on the show, but recently, the writing for Felicity has been pretty bad. I can't tell if they're trying to de-ship Olicity or if they're trying to ruin Felicity's character in order to prop up Laurel. Either way, her scenes have been frustrating. . Oliver may have made to bad decisions to collaborate wtih Malcolm and I understand her being angry, but the way she reacted to Oliver's presumed death and the way she's been treating him since he returned is not what I would have expected from someone who loved him. In fact, the only person who truly reacted with sheer joy at Oliver's return was Thea (and she didn't even know that he was declared dead). Oliver may have been a jerk at times, but his behavior is consistent with his character and his actions have been driven entirely by wanting to protect the people he loves. So I sort of understand the negative Felicity votes, the the negative Oliver votes make less sense. I'm also surprised that there weren't more votes for Malcolm Merlyn.
ReplyDeleteNone of these. I don't particularly like some of the weekly villains they have sometimes, but no one from the main cast I think. Oh I didn't lik the Alderman character last year, but it wasn't a big hate either.
ReplyDeleteBy the way I am shocked Felicity is second on this poll
ReplyDeleteMalcolm-freaking-tediousness-Merlyn... I swear, just read a new interview, again of Guggenheim telling so awesomly how super interesting Malcolm is, how hard of a question it is if he's good or bad, really? Sure, because great parents all over the world killed on kid, and turned the other into a killer... And like he has some actual morality? He doesn't! For fuck's sake, I'm sorry, but it's the truth, that these last couple of episodes are going to be about if Malcolm can be redeemed or not, ugh, I'm already puking by the idea alone. We get it, you guys LOVE John Barrowman, but it doesn't mean that you can just keep going utterly off script with just screwing over DC Comics and suddenly making Malcolm some great guy. He's not, you've proven taht time and time again, but still you guys don't give a crap.
ReplyDeleteI REALLY don't understand why they keep making Malcolm like some grey area, while the things he's done are unforgivable, but hey, they still act like that's the most unavoidable things ever. I mean, for example those innocent lab workers that he just killed at the end of season 1 were necessary right? You know for what? TO COVER HIS OWN ASS! Like the whole reason he put Oliver and Thea in this life-threatening position and Malcolm is just a coward of humangous proportions, because he didn't want to face facts of Ra's, and thus instead decided to let both Oliver and Thea pay the price for him.
But yeah, it's SO hard Guggenheim, if Malcolm is a good guy, or the monstorous, unredeemable bastard that he really is. Crying almost once over Brick, is anything but proof that there's good in him. There's not. And that's why I hate him, his character, because they obviously can't decide if they can miss him or not, or whatever >.<
Hate? Repulsion? Disgust? Annoyance?
ReplyDeleteThat's simple, that is because the producers and writers all seemingly agree that John Barrowman and thus Malcolm Merlyn is single-handedly the most awesome, great and amazing character that they have, and that the rest doesn't matter that much.
ReplyDeleteShe's called him on his mistakes before, but in the past, her objections seemed to be driven more by reason, than hostility and resentment. When she yelled at him about collaborating with Malcolm I agreed with her 100%. But putting him down in front of everyone for sending Thea upstairs, while Laurel was bleeding came from a place of resentment to me. The only person who should have been upset was Thea, and she wasn't. The attitude of the team to Oliver feels more like mutiny to me. Oliver nearly died to keep Raj from killing other people and my guess is that all he could think about the entire time he was recovering, was getting back to protect the people he cared about and they're acting like they wish he hadn't returned. Team arrow sucks. All of them.
ReplyDeleteI agree. They do a dismal job of writing female characters and when they do have great characters they kill them off. I think Felicity has been one of the few well-written regular characters and I think that's because the actress played a major part in defining her role. And now they're messing with it. But there is definitely a tendency for the male characters to outlatst a lot of the female characters. And they should never have killed off Moira or Sara. Meanwhile, Slade, Malcolm and Ra's are all still. They're finally doing something decent with Thea, which makes me worry that they'll kill her off too.
ReplyDeleteI like most of the characters. The only one that I really wish they'd get rid of is Malcolm Merlyn and sadly I don't see that happening anytime soom.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest mistake the writers have made was making Diggle a father!
ReplyDeleteI dreaded it the moment it happened and it played out as expected... Terribly!
It was completely unnecessary and has now chained him to Arrow HQ where he is redundant. He cannot go in the field for fear of orphaning his child and he cannot do the data mining, scientific work or computer work as well as Felicity. Right now he is basically little more than a second voice on the coms.
For two whole season, it was Thea. But this season, not only has it seemed as if Willa Holland has taken some pointers from Barrowman(which makes sense with all the scenes they've shared), but this season has actually given Thea some meat in the storylines. The more boring characters have always been written as being in the dark when it comes to Ollie's secret identity, or when they're just not moving forward with anything. The same went for Tommy until he started to work for his father or Laurel until she started going after Arrow in the beginning of S2 which led to her fantastic arc of going down a spiral. Speaking of Laurel.....I am shocked and surprised how many votes she has received when the character has been fantastic since S2. So many "Laters". John Campea would be proud of you guys, lol.
ReplyDeleteTea, hehe.
ReplyDeleteWhy? We are not obligate to like the main characters ;)
ReplyDeleteI'm so glaaaaaad to read you. Really. I always thought that I was the only one who liked Laurel in Season 2. In my opinion, her character is really amazing. Laurel is one of the only characters in the show who is human. She has made mistakes and that's why I like her. I can can relate to Laurel. I can't do that with miss perfect Felicity and it's a reason why i'm not interested in her character.
ReplyDeleteAnd please everyone just stop with the Olicity. This ship pulls down the show...
And sorry if my english is bad :)
clearly Laurel, no surprise she has by far the most votes. really bad actress and almost as bad writing. when will the writers understand that Katie Cassidy as Laurel as Black Canary doesn't work at all? they're trying so hard to make her a main part of the show, but it just gets worse and worse.
ReplyDeleteEveryone else is/was fine.
I personally think KC did really well in last episode even though Laurel is not my fave. She has totally improved since season 1(in which ill admitt i couldnt stand her portrayal of Laurel).
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree.I can't stand ray palmer either.
ReplyDeleteMalcolm, he is always the worst character. But my favorite is Laurel.
ReplyDeleteLaurel is my absolute fav female then Dig fav male. Thea 2nd fav male. Malcom fav evil character. He's not fully evil to me he has rays of wellness sometimes :P LOL
ReplyDeleteWow. Haha Dan Humphrey used to win these things every time my boy had so many haters . Well at least my girl laurel is in good company
ReplyDeletemaybe well for her, but that's still pretty bad. She just doesn't have what it takes to pull of the role. It's really rare that I notice bad acting, but with Cassidy it's pretty much every scene. I actually didn't dislike her that much when watching season 1, I think both the acting and the character got worse starting season 2.
ReplyDeleteHow can anybody hate Felicity, weird
ReplyDeletei'm gonna go with :
ReplyDeletethea
felicity (though i used to like her before)
Laurel is the only character i don't like and don't want to see on Arrow.
ReplyDeleteThe way she's been pushed to the front this season has just made it worse.
I don't like Malcolm Merlyn as a character but Barrowman is fun to watch as he chews the scenery. And he is genuinely grateful to his fans and tells them so. (As opposed to canceling con appearances and then showing up in Dallas anyway as cough cough does.)
Yes, and intrigue, curiosity, some amount of pity.
ReplyDeleteOlicity immature fan girls teaming just to vote for Laurel as least favourite. I've seen the posts promoting to vote Laurel as least favourite on social media. Salty af LOL
ReplyDeleteOlicity or not, Laurel is the worst character.
ReplyDeleteI voted Merlyn and Felicity. Merlyn because he's an actual facts villain with zero redeeming qualities, and Felicity because she's grating and all her scenes are the same these days. I loved season 1 Felicity, but love interest, super hero whispering Felicity is a real drag.
ReplyDeleteUsually when there's intesnse dislike of a character, it is often is shipping-related (e.g. I could see people disliking Ray Palmer for begin an obstacle to Olicity). However, I don't think that's the case with Laurel, since most people don't regard her as a threat to Olicity. Sara was a much bigger threat to Olicity than Laurel ever was, and she was very popular with fans of the show (including Olicity fans).
ReplyDeleteI know....I watched one of the those comic-con panel, and there's clearly this huge bromance between the actor and the producer. He got far more attention during the panel than his character merited.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they will move Roy from Oliver's shadow for at least one more season. He is Oliver's first sidekick. He needs more years before he can go to other teams.
ReplyDeleteBut is that the reason why he is not going to the field? I thought when he came back to the crusade after Sara's death the whole "you are a father you are out " thing was put to rest. If this is the reason then show needs to explain it to us audience. They need to show us Diggle feeling reluctant to go on field. Also this does not explain why Diggle would sit back and send Laurel and Roy to face Brick whom he himself faced the previous day and got his ass kicked.
ReplyDeleteWith the things as they are in the show nothing can justify Diggle not going to field in Midnight City, Uprising and Canaries while inexperienced Laurel is out there. The funny thing is all they had to do was just break his arm or leg during the fight with Brick in "Left Behind" and put him in a cast for 4 episodes. Problem solved. But then again you need to work on all aspects on the show to plug plot holes not just on glamour and action.
You know who...
ReplyDeletelol KC :p
ReplyDeleteYeah, Ray definitely would have been my choice if he had been included. He really annoys me and creeps me out. LOL
ReplyDeleteOliver is CLEARLY the worst character on the show. Anyone not voting for him is blinded by his abs!
ReplyDeleteOh OK hahahahaha. I don't keep track of her appearances so I didn't know who she was talking about.
ReplyDeleteI don't get all of the overwhelming hate for Laurel specifically, but I understand that we each have our own opinions on the characters and it just so happens that she rubs a lot of viewers the wrong way. I think Katie Cassidy is a somewhat weaker actor at times, but I support her rise to the Black Canary role. Oliver and Roy's constant belittling and telling her she's not capable or ready really aggravates me, given that they both wouldn't want someone standing in their way, but yet they feel they can micromanage her. My only issue with her, besides the acting at times, is that there are so many downs for her and she's constantly depressed or upset in some capacity. I don't want her to fall into the trap Oliver has, where the Black Canary consumes her and doesn't allow her to have a life.
ReplyDeleteI like Felicity and Diggle, although Diggle is underutilized lately. Lately as in... the past two seasons, pretty much I was so excited when he joined Oliver in the first season, and while he's been a good sidekick, you could remove him from an episode and completely forget that he was part of the show. I don't know what they can do with his character to reverse this, but I hope they do, as I like him.
Roy I can take or leave, and Thea I've liked since the beginning. I love that she's in-the-know now and can fight alongside Oliver. (Although, we know Oliver will, yet again, not want her to be a part of much because he's too protective. Sigh.)
Apparently once a character develops, reacts and is affected by the events of the story getting more darker and serious while not being all smiley and cheerful people hate them. I love funny Felicity but i appreciate more this season Felicity. She has a stronger personality. After all im sure once the drama is over she will be happy/cheerful/funny again.
ReplyDeletemmm...laurel. sorry i think she never be a fav for me.
ReplyDeletemalcolm is the man, he did what no one else had the balls to do and i support him 100%
ReplyDeleteI used to like Felicity's character, but this season she's started to seriously annoy the sh*t out of me. She's become extremely self-righteous and unlikable and she acts like she knows best and then bullies/guilts others into doing it her way. She's actually making me not dislike Laurel as much, and I've never been a fan of her character.
ReplyDeleteAt this point in time, I actually think Thea is the best female character on the show and that's saying a lot. Though, that's only because they went and killed the two best female characters they had on the show- Sara and Moira. I don't care what anyone says, I liked Moira.
^This
ReplyDelete^This too.
ReplyDeleteThe level of obnoxious that Felicity has become is actually making Laurel not seem as bad. AND in addition to her being annoying, the level of annoying of her fans is making me dislike her even more. I actually was a major fan of hers, but now because I'm criticizing her recent decisions and behavior, I've become a 'hater' who can't let go of my obvious irrational hatred of the character. I just can't take their BS.
I will admit to not being a huge Ray fan either. Felicity wins the day for me right now, though.
ReplyDeleteI'm completely with you on Sara and Moira. They don't really have any decent female characters left. Even annoying Thea is outdoing all the rest of the females on the show. Hell, Nyssa even, and we barely see her.
ReplyDeleteOh, you'll really love what a B*tch, with a capital B, Felicity becomes later. You'll see...
ReplyDeleteI was a Felicity fan, but I'm not one anymore.
That's EXACTLY the way I feel. Felicity has been annoying me a lot, but especially this back half of the season. And Laurel is still annoying, but is improving. I actually think that how bad Felicity has been behaving makes me like Laurel better.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree about Ray. I could really do without him.
Because she's become an obnoxious, self-righteous bitch who's mad at Oliver because he didn't run home and immediately fulfill all her fantasies, and so is now looking to get her pot shots in where she can.
ReplyDeleteAdd that to the massive mess she made of the Brick situation, while taking absolutely no responsibility for what it turned into and then slamming an idea that could have taken care of their situation, which lead to a bunch of innocent, non-fighters in the Glades having to come and save them. But of course, she sat in her nice cushy van the whole time.
No one expects her to be smiley and cheerful. We'd just lie for her NOT to be a self-righteous, arrogant b*tch.
ReplyDeleteYeah..I'm wondering if I even want to go on with watching it..
ReplyDeleteShe is not but i wont try to convince you since you seem to really hate her for a fictional character to actually reply to every comment on this thread saying how "self-righteous, arrogant b*tch" she is! Like serioulsy not everyone cares about your opinion. You can summarise it in one post.
ReplyDeleteOliver screws up a lot, but right now he's fine. Felicity's recent behavior has created a bit of a divide, I think. Felicity's fans are all on her side and are mad at Oliver because he's not doing what Felicity wants. And then there are the people who see Felicity's behavior for what it is, obnoxious, arrogant, self-righteous, petty, small, bitchy, nasty, etc. She's no longer a likable character. Even the way she went on with her own mother.
ReplyDeleteShe called him on his mistakes and his BS before. NOW she's just being a b*tch. No one expects her to just agree with him all the time, not at all. She didn't before, but I didn't dislike her character until this season. She's become self-righteous and arrogant about it, mad at him because he isn't loving her the way she wants, while she's running around doing what she wants, including stringing along another man and working with the person who took and renamed Oliver's family's legacy. She's not likable anymore.
ReplyDeleteI don't see that working with Malcolm is poor judgment. Thea is upset with him, but even she can see that they need him. It's a matter of using his knowledge to help improve the situation, but they're not putting any trust in him beyond trusting him to work in his own self-interest. He can't beat Ra's himself, so he'll be invested in making Oliver and Thea the best they can be, even if just to save his own ass.
ReplyDeleteThe rest I mostly agree with. She's not behaving like someone who truly loves this man. All of her behavior seems to be very selfishly motivated. Though we saw the beginnings of it when she decided it was her right to tell Oliver Moira's secret. She didn't do that for him, she did that for herself, and in doing so hurt him. And when you think about it, that one decision led them down the path they're on now. If Felicity had kept that secret, a secret that was not hers to tell, to herself, then when Slade pulled out that card, Oliver would have been in the dark as Thea and she would have still had her brother to rely on. Then she wouldn't have been vulnerable to, and left with, Malcolm. He wouldn't have been able to drug her into killing Sara and would have had nothing to use to send Oliver to fight Ra's. And it all goes back to this one selfish decision that Felicity made to keep herself happy. And now, she's selfishly mad at him because he didn't come back and immediately run into her arms like she fantasized and is trying to make him pay for it.
I used to like her character, but it's been VERY hard to like her this season, especially the back half of it. No one is expecting her to be a doormat and to not call him out, but we'd like for her to treat this man like someone that she does love, like she claims, and to not be so petty and small in her eagerness to hurt him.
"Lastly, the Arrow writers, IMO, have a problem writing for women. They had Shado, who was also a strong woman like Sara, and killed. They had Moira, Oliver's strong (almost Lady Macbeth like) mother; and yes, they killed her off. So, there's a long, long history of the show seeming to not like strong women."
ReplyDeleteTHIS! THIS!!! Those were some spectacular female characters they had and they killed them of in favor of weaker, more obnoxious characters. And then they're turned Felicity, one of their less annoying female characters into a self-righteous b*tch.
I agree, Felicity was one of their strongest female characters. It's just sad what they've done to her. And I have a feeling, they're not going to have a moment where she pulls back and realizes what she's become and shifts. It will be Oliver who backs down as if he was wrong, but in this case, he's not.
ReplyDeleteShe's become obnoxious.
ReplyDeleteI used to like her as well, but they've not been playing her character well. The one thing I find a bit obnoxious about too many of Felicity's fans. They act like you can't have been a fan of her character if you're criticizing her now, but that's far from being true.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I think Felicity has surpassed her. And this is coming from someone who was a huge Felicity/Olicity fan.
ReplyDeleteShe's not anymore a beloved fan fav. People are getting tired of her behaviour. This comment below was posted after 3x12 and many people agreed with this guy.
ReplyDelete" Screw Felicity. Also, screw all y'all shippers all right? Good. That's all you give a shit about, romance. Well excuse us fans who actually watch the show for story telling and superheroes and not for your Olicity, Lauriver, Snowbarry, WestAllen or whatever the hell you want to call it. Romance is one part of superheroes not every single part! No offense to Emily but I couldn't stand Felicity anymore. All she does is whine and whine and whine. She's like a love sick puppy prowling all over Oliver."
She's become MASSIVELY self-righteous. But given that you seem to be a deluded Felicity fan, I won't try to convince you otherwise.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I was a massive fan of her character. Hell, I worked hard to convince a friend to watch the show and told her to hold out for Felicity, because she'd love her. This season, though, her character has taken a steep dive into crap, and as someone who WAS a major fan of her character, I'm not happy about it.
That's, sadly, about where I'm at right now.
ReplyDeleteIt has it's moments and things that are definitely worth watching. Just be prepared for what a mess season 3 is becoming.
ReplyDeleteyeah sure i respect your opinion. Could you now stop spreading hate in every comment on this thread? It comes more as blatant hate than constructive criticism.After all you wont change my opinion i obvioulsy expect different things in a show and the characters than you.
ReplyDeleteAgreed on Malcolm.
ReplyDeleteIt is not only a wise choice to work with him - it is the only choice!
To not use him to to their benefit in their moment of necessity would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. It is just more damage to yourself in the end.
I have always liked Felicity, but I agree with you (and many others). This year she has evolved into a far less likable character. The last handful of episodes leave me actually disliking her, or at least her actions and choice of words. Her passive-aggressive attitude wears on me almost as bad as Laurel did last year.
Thankfully Laurel has gotten much better.... At least when not trying to use a tonfa like a billy club that is XD
Good thing Netflix still has the first two before 3 hits.
ReplyDeleteSara was the best. I'm still sad that she is gone. And I was so pissed when Felicity said to Laurel "You have a light inside of you that Sara never had".
ReplyDeleteI like Thea since the beginning. The same goes with Oliver. I'm really happy that in the next episode will be more scene between them.
eo persornagem menos favorito ok
ReplyDeleteIf someone says something I feel the need to respond to, I will. If you find it that offensive, you can feel free to ignore me.
ReplyDeleteI agree Felicity has been annoying the past couple of episodes but Laurel who is the female lead having 52% is outrageous. Surprised by Malcolm as well.
ReplyDeleteThey act like they want to be Team Arrow without the Arrow. It's ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteI didn't like the past episodes with felicity but I don't hate her. Laurel is still my least favourate character.
ReplyDeleteIs Laurel the female lead?
ReplyDeleteI mean that as an honest question...
Of course Oliver is the true "lead" of the show. Then I have always considered Diggle and Felicity to be the next core roles with everyone else being supporting or recurring cast.
I agree. Have seen him spreading felicity hate all through this thread. Some people need to get a life outside TV . it's pathetic.
ReplyDeleteTbh, Arrow and Detective lance. I like Arrow but I just think the others are cooler and detective lance isn't really a big part of the show this season
ReplyDeleteActually, if you'd really paid attention, I've commented on more than just Felicity :-P And the comments that I posted took me less than a half hour.
ReplyDeleteAs I told Fringe, grow up and ignore someone if you have that much of a problem with it. And I'm a she btw
Yeah its fine having a personal opinion but spreading hate all over the place to make sure everyone sees it is weird. He/She is actually copy-pasting his/her replies same way a troll does. Looks like just he/she came out of those nasty imdb pages.
ReplyDeleteJust because Laurel wants to fight with them doesn't mean they have to let her. If Laurel were training to be a CIA operative and stubbornly insisted on going out on a field mission three months after training, she would be considered extremely reckless. So I don't see this as any different. Oliver and Roy aren't belittling her. They're just telling her the truth. She isn't ready. If they weren't dealing with life and death situations, then it would be fine to placate her and encourage her to "get out there and fight". But in a situation where inexperience results in death, then they are absolutely right. Both Oliver and Sara went through hell before they were ready. Diggle also had extensive training. Roy had been fighting his entire life and still went through a lot before Oliver would trust him as part of the team. So I don't understand why Laurel deserves the special treatment, especially when her stubborness could actually compromise a mission.
ReplyDeleteThis is a fictional script, so the writers will allow Laurel to miraculously survive all of her screw-ups and overcome the most dangerous of foes, but I wish they had tried to be a bit more realistic. To me, everyone who made it on Team Arrow had something special that made them invaluable to the mission. Why should they put their lives in the hands of someone who isn't as experienced just because she wants to join them? The whole plot is ridiculous.
Your show?
ReplyDeleteWait a minute! Wait wait! I just realized I don't like Felicity this season also! holy dang, I didn't care about her this season so I didn't notice that I didn't like her this season. Well she just got grouped with Laurel & Ray for me.
ReplyDeleteOliver refused to train Laurel because he doesn't want her to fight. She came to him and he shut her down. One thing I hate is that Oliver can seemingly do anything he wants, but if he cares about someone, he doesn't want them at risk so he shuts them out as long as he can. I get that that's a normal reaction that any person would have: you don't want friends/family to be injured or killed. However, he disregards what anyone thinks about him being subjected to dangerous, life-or-death scenarios because... he just can. At the end of the day, Oliver is going to do Oliver despite what Felicity, Diggle, or Roy could say. Laurel hasn't gotten the same level of training as Roy and Oliver, but their refusal to even train her themselves is incredibly irritating and will only motivate Laurel to get in on the action even more. Anyway, she has been learning self-defense and such and I think the hands on, life-threatening experience so far has helped her more than any sideline training could do.
ReplyDeleteLaurel can make decisions for herself. If she wants to fight crime in Starling City, she can. Oliver doesn't have to "let her" do anything. She doesn't have to be an official part of Team Arrow in order to fight for her sister as the Black Canary, anyway. She's finding her purpose, and isn't that what Oliver and Roy did as well? Why aren't we talking about Roy's initial arrogance and insisting he becomes a part of the action? He made things tough for Team Arrow yet they stuck by him and now many fans consider him a critical part of the team. He didn't always play by Oliver's rules and has put Team Arrow at risk several times.
My point exactly about Roy. Poeple seem to forget that Roy went through the ringer before Oliver actually trusted him, and he had tons more experience than Laurel. So why are people getting upset when Oliver objects to Laurel? Oliver's harsh speech to Laurel is nothing compared to what he put Roy through...Oliver even shot Roy with an arrow to keep him off the streets and if he hadn't been given Mirakuru, I'm not entirely sure that Oliver would have taken him under his wings. So the expectation that Laurel should be able to join in and fight just because she wants to is ridiculous, especially given what Roy went through. And yes, Laurel can do whatever she wants, but if she's showing up at the same places they're showing up, then she actually will compromise what they do. She got hurt the last time, so Oliver had to stop what he was doing to attend to her.
ReplyDeleteLaurel
ReplyDeleteLaurel of course.
ReplyDeletePeople were allowed two votes, which makes the 52% seem even stranger, because it would would mean that nearly everyone picked Laurel (unless most people made only one selection) . Based on the comments, she seems to have a good number of supporters, so the 52% almost doesn't make sense. BTW...I don't consider Laurel the female lead anymore. It may have been the original intention at the beginning, but I think that spot goes to Felicity now.
ReplyDeleteI think most people are saying Felicity because of how she acted on The Return episode. Overall this season she's been great. Laurel has definitely approved. Oliver has become annoying this annoying this season...actually the whole Queen family (Thear & Oliver) has been annoying this season.
ReplyDeletePoor sad little person. Can't take the fact that someone has an opinion about Felicity that does not match yours. Seriously, you and Mandy... really need to grow up.
ReplyDeleteAnd don't forget that Laurel's bungling got one of the Aldermen (sp?) killed as well.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't say that overall she's been great. She started the season okay and has been getting progressively worse, coming to a head after the midseason break.
ReplyDeleteOliver is always a bit of a screw up, I think mainly because of his issues with taking too much responsibility for what happens around him. He definitely deserves to be called out for some of the things he's done, but the way the team has been going after him after his near death experience is too much. The only one who is attempting approach him in a reasonable way is Digg. Let's just go back to the days of Oliver and Digg, before they included anyone else on this mission. Oliver has someone to stand up to him, but not be a prick about it.
And your fallacy is ad hominem. Try again please.
ReplyDeleteLaurel and Ray because the writers seem to be bending over backwards just to try to incorporate them into the narrative which isn't indicative of a good character, or one that belongs in the show.
ReplyDeleteMostly I'm bitter because these two make Felicity act sort of out of character and the sheer amount of energy it took to make Laurel relevant (sidelining Diggle, Felicity's approval at the expense of her character, Oliver's death, Sara's death, dumbing down of Quentin to keep up Laurel's drama) is just exhausting.
Was Laurel okay in the last few episodes? I guess, but what kills it was that it was at the expense of other characters.
That's cause Sara was such an awesome character, you couldn't dislike her even then :-P
ReplyDeleteI think I actually have a unique reason for disliking Ray, not connected to shipping. It's actually connected more to the actor. He reminds me of the governor of my state, Florida, with his buggy bug eyes, and I REEEEEALLY can't stand the governor of my state. He's kind of a douche. So that dislike bleeds over to Brandon Routh, even though he seems like a nice enough guy.
i really dont like laurel
ReplyDeleteshe is. she always was supposed to be and while for some time Felicity seemed to be far more present on the show, now Laurel is clearly in the focus. but in my opinion it becomes more and more obvious that neither the character nor the actress are suited for taking a lead role. Thus all the dislike.
ReplyDeleteNot voting
ReplyDeleteI love the idea of Oliver and Thea fighting together too.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure she's different, but just more of the same--no growth as a character. And there is definitely a whinny quality that wasn't there before. All that said: Felicity is still the " moral center" of the show. Which makes her being viewed negatively by so many fans puzzling.
ReplyDeleteit's all the angsty stuff. She is my favorite and all the angst is going on my nervs too.
ReplyDeletelaurel lance.. so annoying. Kill her please and bring back sara
ReplyDeleteIf she remained all happy and cheerful, haters will call her a one dimensional character. If she asserts herself and takes a stand, they call her a bitch.
ReplyDeleteDiggle, Laurel and Felicity.. everyone voted against joining forces with malcom. So why doesn't Diggle is suffering from your wrath.
ReplyDeleteYes exactly,i think its more about hating just for the sake of hating. The actress is doing a very good job with the character IMO which means that people who hate the character do it because :
ReplyDeletea) they are irritated with the way the fans and media make it all about her
b)They are comic book fanatics that are threatened that she interferes in their canon duo (that why you see people suggesting that she moves to a spin off with Ray)
c) People who liked her being funny are upset that there is such a lack of comedy in the show now and apparently dont care for her character development(thats why they dont appreciate her point of view when arguing with the main hero of the show) but only for her funny one liners.
Multiple reason: 1) They are at least open to the idea that they're ideas and decisions aren't the best one and are willing to hear other points of view. Felicity is consistently and arrogantly convinced that her way is the best way; 2) I'm not a huge fan of Laurel anyway, so my expectations for her were in the toilet. On the flip side, I was a huge fan of Felicity, so I'm REALLY unhappy with the direction her character has taken. I was reading another article that described her as a scorned woman, and I think that's, sadly, a pretty accurate description of the direction her character is going in; and 3) the reasons for Felicity having sunk in my esteem go beyond just that one decision, as I did mention above.
ReplyDeleteIt would be interesting to see the Huntress come back, to see how differently she'd behave now that her father is dead. She would be an interesting option for a teach for Laurel.
ReplyDeleteIt's the eyes that do it for me. Buggy bug eyes creep me out :-/
ReplyDeleteI think beyond the first season, there's really no reason to hate Quentin. He became very likable once he was able to let go of his hatred and anger, it made him a much nicer person. Not to say that he wasn't justified, but that he's become a lot less painful to watch.
ReplyDeleteBecause she's gone beyond being 'moral' to being self-righteous. Personally, I see Digg as being more of the moral center. Because he's not as convinced of his own rightness. You need to be flexible and Felicity is just not that, definitely not right now.
ReplyDeleteLOL, yep. I definitely get that.
ReplyDeleteThat term 'haters'... Whoever came up with it needs to get smacked. Negative criticism =/= 'hater'.
ReplyDeleteEither way, Felicity asserted herself prior to now on multiple occasions and no one called her a bitch. The reason she's being called a bitch is because at this point in the show, she's acting like one.
I hate to see all the Felicity hate. She's been through a lot. When you have a friend who's going though a rough time, do you abandon them just because they haven't been acting like they usually do? People change over time, if they didn't it would mean they weren't living. You can't go back to the same person you were 3 years ago so why does everyone expect Felicity to? This is just a season for her, and for every emotion there is a season. You weren't a true fan if you can easily decide to dislike her. She's going to grown and change over the next few years as a character, now its your choice if you want to stick around and watch.
ReplyDeleteTo want Felicity to be the same character she was 2 years ago is a disservice to the character and to the show imo
ReplyDeleteThea and... Ray Palmer
ReplyDelete"I was a Felicity fan but not anymore."
ReplyDeleteSure you were. LOL.
Yes, MY show. Are you confused about something?
ReplyDeleteIt's sad that people today seem to be so simple-minded that they can't understand that feelings can change. Or that liking someone doesn't have to be absolute. They can do something or reveal other parts to their personality that completely turn you off. I'm glad that all people aren't quite as simple-minded as you, otherwise I would be EXTREMELY frustrated constantly.
ReplyDeleteLaurel.
ReplyDeleteI made a point to vote for her on my boss' computer, my pc and my phone.
There is no such thing as Team B Agree about Diggle, I would love to see him as ARGUS leader.
ReplyDeleteHIVE is not a Diggle story, or any real story arc for that matter.
ReplyDeleteHiVE killed Diggle's brother, so it's a potential story for Diggle and the show overall.
ReplyDeleteThat's why the the show can have a 100 episodes or more, 22 episodes a year,its nonsense that they can't focus on that many people. With good time management they can write for everyone. But of course so called "original" team arrow fans are closed off, they don't want to believe and see it differently.
ReplyDeleteSo what are you saying they are doing a good job now or they are not? You are saying they are focusing on every character and it made sense for Diggle to stay in the Arrow cave for past 3 episodes when people with less fight training was going out. They could have simply broke his femur or dislocated his shoulder or god forbid send him away for some reason for couple of episodes instead of insulting our intelligence. I love all the characters of this show. I like Roy and Laurel. I loved the way they improved Laurel this season. But bad writing is bad writing. And right now the way they are treating the character of Diggle is the prime example of bad writing.
ReplyDeleteGo ahead and accuse me of being an original Team Arrow fan and Olicity fan. I will take that as a compliment coming from you.
I don't know if you ever saw CSI Las Vegas. There was a time when they had two teams there. One who did the evening shift lead by Catherine and one who did the graveyard shift lead by Grissom. Both teams had different cases in the same episode. Then every 2 or 3 episodes their cases will come together and they all will work together. That's what I meant with B team. Not that one team is better than the other. I said Laurel/Thea on the top of my head. It can be Roy/Thea/Sin too. Something has to be done. I don't see how all these warriors go about fighting for the same mission every night.
ReplyDelete3th position for felicity??!
ReplyDeletePeople being disappointed in their favorite character doesn't mean that they hate her now. Maybe one or two people do (and those same people keep posting repeatedly), but it doesn't seem to be a general thing. A lot of people seem to be pissed off with Oliver too and no one has a problem with that. Being a fan of a character doesn't mean that you unconditionally support and make excuses for everything they do. I actually hate when fans do that, because it means that they can't think objectively. Also, giving people the "you're not a true fan" speech just because they object to something that a character does seems very counter-productive to an open discussion. Felicity is my favorite character, but her attitude these past few episodes is grating on me.I really don't see how her actions could be seen as progress for her character at all. Acting like a slighted girlfriend isn't really progress for her character. It's a human emotion, that I can sort of empathize with, but it most certainly isn't progress.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I actually think your friend analogy is more applicable to Team Arrow, because despite everything they've been through with Oliver, I get the feeling that one or two of them on the verge of quitting the team. What if Felicity left Oliver and started working full-time with Ray...would that mean that she wasn't really Oliver's friend?