Hey everyone and welcome to this week’s review for the “Teen Dean,” episode as I like to call it.
Honestly I expected to hate this episode, especially since the promos insisted on presenting it as teen Dean being hilariously confused about puberty, something that made absolutely no sense. Thank goodness that wasn’t the case.
Instead I had split feelings about the episode. Not ‘mixed’ feelings, ‘split’ feelings, as in half and half. I liked everything up to minute 27:30, and disliked everything after that.
The episode started out well. We got to see the full toll the mark was taking on Dean. He had locked himself up inside the bunker constantly searching for a cure to the tune of melancholy soundtracks. This must have been a recent development seeing as it was just last week he was traveling from town to town eager to help Charlie.
Speaking of Charlie, she got a mention. Apparently Dean beating Dark!Charlie up last week wasn’t to hold her back from getting to Good!Charlie. It was an effect of the mark. I didn’t get that watching the episode, or it wasn’t the case and Adam Glass decided to make it so. Either way we got to hear, one more time, how generously forgiving she was toward Dean. Maybe next week they'll build a shrine to her in the bunker.
Sam tells Dean about a case and they decide to check it out. What I liked about this part of the epiosde is that it had the look and feel of old Supernatural circa season 2-3. Though I was never a big fan of Monster of the Week episodes, the ones we got back then were better than the mythology episodes we get now. It was refreshing to see shades of that in season 10 instead of the amalgamations of meta and mockery these types of episodes have become these days.
The case was intriguing too. Adults disappeared with their clothes left behind. Since it was revealed, right off the bat, that aliens and fairies were not possible suspects I anticipated something unpredictable, a mystery worth investigating.
And investigate they do. They go to the bar where the victim was last seen. I liked how the issue of the Mark was kept alive throughout. After talking to the witness, Sam suggests they split up so Dean could check out the bar while Sam goes to the victim’s home. That gives Dean a pause, just a small hesitation but enough to ping Sam that his brother isn't confident going alone. Dean was obviously worried about what he might do alone and Sam understood that. That bit was a nice touch for me. Standalone episodes that address the main mythology, and incorporate it in their story, are a cut above the rest. That’s why I liked them in seasons 4 & 5. No matter what monster or mystery the boys tackled, it either had to do with the seals or somehow referenced the apocalypse, which made the episodes part of a whole as opposed to throwaway plots you could take out of the narrative and not miss anything. This episode almost followed that style. Almost.
Something else that was good about the first part of the episode was that the interviews weren’t dragged out. At the bar we quickly meet Tina, who is an interesting character. I enjoyed her conversation with Dean, and thought they were a good match had they chosen to go down that path. They seemed to have more in common than whatever Dean had with his last fling. But alas, she chose to leave him.
At this point I was so engrossed in the story I almost forget Dean was supposed to turn into a teenager. By the time I remembered, I began to dread it. The show had been so good so far I worried once we got to teen Dean and his puberty issues it would get ruined.
Luckily it didn’t. Teen Dean wasn’t what I expected. On the contrary, he was a much better young version of Dean than any of the previous ones. Dylan is a promising young actor who did a good job imitating Jensen. I wouldn’t mind seeing him again (for flashbacks) if they chose to bring him back.
But as good as teen Dean was, he was outmatched by young Tina. I’m willing to go as far as to say she was the best part of the episode for me. Both the character and the actress were extremely likable and multidimensional. She wasn’t the typical annoying teenage girl we saw in Claire, Marie, Krissy or Becky. She was brave, smart and highly resourceful and I enjoyed every second she was on screen. Of course that was probably why they gagged and hogtied her for the second part of the episode when everything went down the drain.
So what happened after 27:30?
Once Sam and teen Dean come back to the lair to rescue Tina something happens to the script that makes it go from edge-of-your-seat exciting mystery to Exposition in the Kitchen. I can’t say I know what happened but I have this theory that Adam Glass was writing the episode when Robbie and his other friends showed up to take him out for drinks. He first resisted, saying he had to write a script, but Robbie told him to fudge the ending and join them anyway (yes, I’m blaming this one on Robbie too. I’m evil.) So Adam slapped every character with a stupidity spell, forced them all to stand around in a kitchen, and wrapped things up with long-winded, expository dialogue.
Here is a summary of how it all went down:
My name is Hansel
Wait, what? Why are we bumping into fairytale characters? This is not Grimm or Once Upon a Time. Supernatural’s mythology has always been about urban legends or biblical prophecies. The few times it delved into fairytales the monster turned out to be something else. This, and the extensive focus on Oz as a real place in the previous Charlie episodes, worries me. I don’t mind the writers exploring new boundaries but every show has a preconceived universe its characters live in. That’s why aliens didn’t appear in season 6's X-files episode and we got monsters posing as fairies instead. If fairytale characters didn’t exist on a show for nearly ten years, expect us to be surprised when you suddenly start throwing them at us in random episodes. I dread to think who is going to be next. Sleeping Beauty? Cinderella? The Lion King? Anna and Elsa from Frozen?
Hansel, aside from being out of this world, is also the first to show us the effects of the stupidity spell. When he is knocked to the ground by Sam and teen Dean he immediately starts to babble. He talks about his past, the main villain, and the secret of how he turns people into teenagers and back. Why doesn't he turn Sam into a teen right away and use the element of surprise to overpower both of them? I don't know. Instead he decides to put on an act and take them to the witch, with the promise of turning Dean back once they defeat her. That’s such an obvious lie I can't believe he expected the Winchesters to fall for it.
We are hunters
But fall for it they do. When the scheming Hansel claims they can’t kill the witch because they’re ‘just men’ (wanna guess why he says something like that?) Sam gleefully tells him they are hunters. They actually believe the bald-faced mofo and decide to go with him! Of course there was the option to tie him up, take the pouch from his neck, turn Dean back to his normal size, then go after the witch. Why didn't they do it that way? Because...stupidity, I guess?
The mysterious monster is…Mrs. Patmore?
When the teens were trapped in the basement, and the scary kidnapper came for them one by one, I found it quite unnerving. The fact that I didn’t know where he was taking them made the situation that much scarier and closer to a horror movie.
But when Hansel took the boys to see the witch, and we finally got a peek behind the curtain, it is almost anticlimactic. We find out the menacing threat hovering over the kids is a replica of the old cook from Downton Abbey.
I’m not saying the idea of a witch making stew out of children is something to sniff at. But in this episode that's the only thing it is: an idea. On camera the witch is simply a cook throwing vegetables into a pot. Tina is tied to a chair in a corner, but she is unharmed, and the witch doesn’t look any more threatening than a yammering old lady in a kitchen, Mrs. Patmore really. She's certainly not as intimidating as the sound of Hansel’s footsteps coming down the stairs in the chilling parts of the first half of the episode.
Scary or not, Mrs. Patmore is confident enough in the power she and Hansel wield that neither of them bothers to kill the Winchesters, or tie them up, or...I don't know, turn Sam into a teenager perhaps? Why is it that no one is threatened by the 6 foot tall, muscular man in the room? The witch starts monologuing as soon as they arrive -which is standard trade for all small fry villains on this show - and it lasts five minutes. She explains her motivations, answers all their questions, even gives them info about why she was sent there by her coven. Why does she do all that? Because we need to know it and because... stupidity.
Oops, there goes the pouch
Of course once all explanations are out of the way Sam goes for the witch, but she throws him around – doesn’t kill him though, they never do - and it’s actually teen Dean who saves the day. That’s twice in a row Sam has been ineffective in a fight. Last week he was in a room with a wounded baby-bird Charlie and she was the one who fried the villain. The writers really should start giving the tallest, strongest person around something to do or else he'll look real bad.
Teen Dean steals the pouch and finally, finally uses it to turn himself back to big Dean. But then he throws it into the furnace along with the witch, forgetting that there’s still Tina out there who needs it to become big and strong.
Never mind, I want to stay 16
In a not-so-unforeseen twist, consistent with the flood of stupidity sweeping through this part of the episode, Tina decides to remain a teen, saying that she has three ex-husbands and 50 grand in debt, and that it is a good idea to get out of town and get a fresh start. Yes, until you get picked up by the cops, or other authorities, who ask you who/where your parents are, and when you don't have a believable answer to give them, stick you in a youth home where a sadistic social worker locks you up in a room and won't let you go even when your father magically shows up. Don't believe me? Ask Claire.
In fact this is one of the more ridiculous oversights of the show. It’s bad enough that none of the adults has a source of income (Sam, Dean, Castiel, even Charlie,) now we have a gang of homeless teens who also miraculously can take care of themselves. I hope Tina won’t be another angry teen next time Glass decides to bring her back. The last thing we need is the lot of them coming after our main characters for causing them their current situations. If that happens I volunteer to testify that Tina at least chose the runaway teenage life herself, so whatever happened to her afterward was her own damn fault.
Feel free to chat me up in the comments, or if you like, hypothesize about how Tina plans to eat, get around, or find shelter once Sam and Dean's pocket money runs out. And what about Sam, Dean? How do they find money to pump gas into their car, or food into their bellies? How does Castiel? And since there are so many stray teens in the world of Supernatural, why did Hansel and the witch go through all that trouble turning adults into teenagers when they could’ve just picked one from the pile? I would've been willing to give them all their names.
Told you I was evil.
Tessa
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Hi Tessa, i agree. the 1st half was good, i enjoyed then, the 2nd half ruined the whole ep as you said with the stupidity spell especially the ending. i have started to keep track of how many episodes Sam has been unconscious going back to season 9, 14 episodes so far, if this continues for episodes 13, 14, and so on, i will add to it.
ReplyDeleteI already mentioned this in my IMDb post, but I wanted to add here too.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you brought the "Charlie apology" thing because it has been bothering me since her last episode.
I get what the story is trying to tell. But the narrative shows a different story. So it just comes across as confusing. They did the same thing with the season premier. We keep hearing how Dean shouldn't have done that from Cas and Sam and how he has to apologize to everyone and feel guilty But what we got on screen was Dean being left alone to deal with a bunch of armed men who wanted to kill him. So he's apologizing for defending himself?
The same thing is happening here. He's apologizing for stopping Dark!Charlie who had bad intentions? It's not like he decided to beat her up for no reason. Yet it's been treated like some horrible loss of control, when it was not what we saw onscreen.
If anyone. Sam should apologize for letting Dean go with dark!Charlie (and even that is a stretch), knowing how unstable he was. It was a stupid plan from the beginning. And it just shows to me how little thought is been put into these "parallels". And what a complete disconnection there is between scripts and what gets filmed.
I liked the episode (as much as one can when compared to what we have been getting lately), but I completely agree with the shift for that second half. I'm really annoyed with the writers making the brothers badass for the first half and then for the last quarter of the episode they forget everything about hunting AND TRUSTING STRANGERS. You would think with how many times they've been played they would have gotten smarter about it.
I also found it laughable that some 14 year old girl, with no background or now legal records is going to have such a grand second change. Then this is the show that thinks some 12 year old runaway (Charlie) is going to end up as an awesome geek girl with amazing jobs and not the more realistic end that those kids face (let me tell you, less computers and more drugs and sex trafficking).
yeah, it seems Sam cant be allowed to do anything. its either that or Sam is made(wriiten) to look stupid :( oh well
ReplyDeleteThen this is the show that thinks some 12 year old runaway (Charlie) is going to end up as an awesome geek girl with amazing jobs and not the more realistic end that those kids face (let me tell you, less computers and more drugs and sex trafficking).Of course, whenever it is convenient (Claire) they do show how actually horrible it is to be a teen on the street and that you won't typically end up at a pristine school learning fantastic computer skills, but in a room with a pedophile ready to assault you. But that only happens when they want someone (Castiel) to feel guilty. Once the teen shows content and forgives them for past sins the adults have no qualm letting her go back to the life of danger, so long as she's smiling about it.
ReplyDeleteAnd even Claire seem to have been in a mess of her own making. She seem to have been in a pretty decent facility that she willingly chose to ditch...to go and steal for a shady criminal I doubt she knew for hat long anyway. Otherwise she seemed perfectly well groomed (bad tastes aside) and fed. Most kids aren't even that lucky.
ReplyDeleteI must have been the only one to know his fist thumping Dark Charlie was the Mark thing then. Dean would never intentionally beat up Charlie knowing that she's Charlie. The fact that he was pummeling her when she was down and kept at it was 100% of the Mark fueling his need for hurting. The Mark is like heroin, it gives Dean a kinda high when he kills so when he's hitting on someone it sparks the Mark to take over since the need is there.
ReplyDeleteOh, wow, a review on Saturday again! Yea!!
ReplyDeleteI was absolutely dreading a fanfic de-aged Dean story written Adam Glass, and when I heard it was a take-off of Hansel and Gretel, I almost didn't watch it. As it turned out, I thought this was one of two good episodes this season (Reichenbach being the other one), but I don't disagree with you on any of your points.
God, I am so tired of having Charlie pimped on the fans. They build an alter in the bunker, and I am throwing very heavy objects at my very expensive TV. Hello, Thompson, Charlie had the a terrible demo, along with a 17% drop in viewers at the half hour mark. There are a lot of us that do not think she is a "fan favorite."
The same complaint about Sam being knocked down is all over the net and, while I certainly understand the complaint, I thought in this case that it served a purpose in that Sam needs to show in word and in deed that his faith in Dean is sincere. Dean has to believe in Sam, IMO, if he is going to ever believe in himself, because Dean is lost right now and the only person he ever listens to or cares about is Sam. More than that, though, I took Sam's thank you and 'you pulled a Dean Winchester' as an anti-Purge speech. In other words, I believed him.
The thing is that the "I lied," at the end of S9 was not enough for me to believe Sam had changed in any way, and this is probably the only thing we're going to get out of the writers to make up for Sam's behavior in S8 and S9. I can now believe that Sam had a wake-up call when Metatron killed Dean. I do keep waiting for the other shoe to drop where Sam is concerned, and I am still not sure that it won't, but right now Dean saving Sam and Tina and Sam's acknowledgement of it worked for me.
Completely agree with you on the children's fable stories. I never liked Oz on the show, and I don't like that Glass has now visited Hansel and Gretel. The other thing I don't like is this steady string of teenagers through every episode. I get that the network wants a younger demo, but they are a fickle bunch and it's a little late to use the long-term viewers that have kept this show on the air all these years while they play with bait to try to capture the 14 and 15-year olds. It dumbs down the stories, the writing, and the two Winchester characters (i.e., the second half of the episode and all the yapping to explain what is going on).
I, too, loved Teen Tina and thought she out-acted Dylan's mimicking of Dean. What a great little actress. I liked Adult Tina, too. Actually, I thought all the actors did a good job in this one.
I liked that the focus was solely on the two Winchesters, that the MoC story was moved forward a little, and that JA was in it more than I expected. I mostly liked (after the stupid reminder of how Charlie has 'forgiven' Dean for defending himself against Dark!Charlie **gag**) there was NO CHARLIE! I expected this one to be equally as bad as that one, and was surprised that it wasn't.
Dean had to stick the hex bag in her mouth to keep her from casting a spell that could fling him into a wall.
ReplyDeleteI think Tina's a different case, she's a 30-something in the body of a teenager, so she's at an advantage I'd say.
I agree with you on this one. Dean started out restraining himself until Dark!Charlie goaded him enough that he got mad and he started fighting back. It was the pummeling, though, where the Mark took over. Too bad Sam stopped him. I wanted both of them so dead that Charlie could never grace the screen again. Dear Chuck, I hate that character.
ReplyDeleteWe had Claire, Tina and Teen Dean. That's three teenagers in three episodes out of 12, you're being hyperbolic.
ReplyDeleteThe same complaint about Sam being knocked down is all over the net and, while I certainly understand the complaint, I thought in this case that it served a purpose in that Sam needs to show in word and in deed that his faith in Dean is sincere.
ReplyDeleteIt comes across as Sam having to show Dean that he needs saving by getting almost knocked out.
Well, technically Sam wasn't knocked unconscious, he was dazed, as was Dean. But on average Sam get's knocked out 5-6 times a season, that's going back to season 1. Season 9 has the most, because about half were Gadreel taking over zonking Sam's energy, so it's a little differnet.
ReplyDeleteOMG! Don't even mention this show and Frozen in the same sentence! Yikes! You'll give the writers ideas! *shudders* lol Although seeing Olaf on a killing spree being hunted by the Winchesters might make for a "so stupid, it's funny" episode. :P
ReplyDeleteNotice the lack of blood and gore in this episode??? They must have blown their budget on ten seconds of the latest Taylor Swift song
To be honest, this show has really become a parody of itself trying so desperately to appeal to the younger generation. All the teen soap opera story lines, lack of gore, the fairytale stories etc.... Sadly, I think that that will be this show's undoing. Speaking of SPN and fairlytales, definitely not the first time they have tangled with it. They have a fairy realm that has been mention many times in past episodes, as well as well, whatever that one messed up episode was where Dean says "fight the fairies"
As far as Sam is concerned, yeah.... they really need to get him to do something other than being the damsel in distress. That being said however, he has saved Dean's ass plenty of time throughout the series so I am nor really going to touch on that issue. Although, in recent seasons every time he stands, I feel like saying "DUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH" because of the way he stands, he looks like a big clueless idiot that doesn't know what is going on most of the time.
Back to the episode here. I could be wrong, and this is just a theory, but regarding Hansel.I don't think that he was tricking them. But he was helping them, and then as soon as he hears the witch's voice he falls under her spell. I also feel that if that is the case, then it could be foreshadowing for what Rowena is doing to Crowley, and why Crowley is acting so stupid. Once again, just a theory.
All in all, Dylan Everett stole the episode he nailed playing Dean! It was a faily good episode, and was probably the best one this season. Mostly because we got away from the two really shitty story lines of Cas and Crowley and it was just focussing on the boys, you know, the reason why 90% of SPN watch the show. It was good to see that they were not shoved into the background of their own show and were not guest stars in their own show. I am not really looking forward to next weeks episode though as it looks kid of stupid. But I am waiting for the return of Cain in 14, here's hoping that it isn't a let down like most of the episodes this season.
It comes across as bad writing to me. Sam can have faith in Dean AND still be a competent hunter who isn't constantly being knocked out. It's silly to think having Sam knocked out is the ONLY way to show his faith in Dean.
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't get how that shows his faith anyway. "Well, I won't give this fight my all so Dean can save me and feel better about himself." Huh? I don't understand that, but that's me.
Totally agree about Hensel, that what it looked like to me. I rewatched that scene and actor played pretty clear that Hansel got fist confused, then lost, then his face just changed completely. All this happened after witch gave him that particular long look.
ReplyDeleteBut Sam did fight, without him there would be no win. He was the one who was able to get knife and free himself. He was the one who started the fight, who knocked Hensel off. He started it, Dean finished. That was always the case : they work together, why is it so important who makes an actual kill?
ReplyDeleteI am too lazy to do that, but I wish I can go back to everybodys beloved first 5 seasons and count how many time who saved whom and who was knocked out.
The Super Wiki has a list of all the knockouts, and Sam generally averages 5-6 per season. With Dean, some seasons he's only been knocked out 3 times, others 6 times. Season 9 both brothers got knocked out a lot, though some of Sam's can be attributed to Gadreel taking over zonking him out.
ReplyDeleteI don't care that Dean killed the witch. I care that Sam was KNOCKED OUT, or rather dazed and confused on the ground and virtually incapacitated, from a single toss into a shelf. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous! We have seen Sam recover from much worse so what happened here? If they wanted to knock out Sam, why not toss him around more or hit him in the head w/a crowbar?
ReplyDeleteTo see a slight teenager get pummeled repeatedly by a much larger individual and still manage to overcome the beating to save everyone while a 6'5" muscular dude lay on the ground still dazed from a single toss into a shelf was too much for me. If it worked for you, that's cool but it didn't' work for me at all. It made Sam appear very ineffectual. If his skills are this bad, he really shouldn't be hunting.
And Kate and her sister (10.4), a high school play with all girls (10.05), mentions of young Alex (10.8), two with Claire, and one with Teen Dean, and from the promo pictures, more teenagers to come. And don't give me the "Dylan is 20," because he was playing 14. And don't give me the "SPN always hires 20 to 30-year olds, because; yes they do, but they haven't always played teenagers. Cole, too, played a 23 year old, and he will be 40 this year.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't see it the push for a lower demo, then you don't see it. If you don't see the constant monologuing explaining what is going on, then you don't see it. If you don't recognize the dumbed down stories, then you don't recognize them.
Dean was able to get the hex bag off of Hansel when he first jumped on him. Once he reverted back, he had the MoC again. It's not like it 14-year-old Dean getting up from being pummeled and grabbing the hex bag, no was down and not getting up while in that state.
ReplyDeleteI don't see it that way at all, and I think I explained why in my post.
ReplyDeleteKate and her sister weren't teenagers, they were/are 20 somethings, you got me with "Fan Fiction" that's 4 episodes. Ohhh, they mentioned Alex in an episode, the bastards. Seriously? Plus you're wrong about the next episode, unless college students are now 16-year-olds. But yeah, SPN has never done episodes on colleges, with young college students, that's never happened before.
ReplyDeleteAll those things have been around since Kripke ran the show, if you can't get past your rose colored viewing of the earlier seasons, then you cant get past it.
The single toss was a TK toss by a powerful (Grand Coven) witch, but I think Sam's confusion comes from the way the action is filmed to show all parties. It was all supposed to have happened in a matter of seconds. As I said in my post, though, I think there was a valid reason supported by the story in this case.
ReplyDeleteWhat I object to is the things like having Sam incapacitated so that Charlie, or Jody, Donna, or Krissy can save the day. Charlie, particularly, is just to let her be the hero.
I also don't like them dumbing down either brother to let the guest stars shine. Having Charlie tell Sam how to hack, for instance.
With or without Gadreel I've noticed Sam's been knocked out more than it the past. In the past he got choked more often though.
ReplyDeleteWhat's made it so bad in the last couple seasons is that it seems Sam can never save the day anymore. It doesn't help that the people they're saving or guest characters like Charlie are saving the day so often now instead of the brothers.
Season 6 is actually up w/ there with season 9 in Sam being unconscious. But like season 9 there were extenuating circumstances, like Dean beating the shit out of him at the end of one episode, and him still being knocked out in the next, or Hell hallucination stuff.
ReplyDeleteI still think Sam should have been able to recover from that. We saw two powerful witches knocking the boys about in that episode w/Spike and Cordelia, and they were never KNOCKED out the way Sam was in this episode. And I know Sam has been thrown further and knocked into larger objects in previous episodes but still managed to fight.
ReplyDeleteIt didn't feel genuine to me. It felt contrived. AG wanted Dean to save everyone (which is fine w/me), but he achieved his goal by having Sam appear really incompetent and useless. To me, that was not necessary. I already have issues w/the way AG portrays Sam (Bad Boys) so this did not help. His Sam is weak, ineffectual, and useless IMO.
He still got up. That's my point. How did Sam help? What use was Sam lying on the ground after that little toss into a shelf? Why bring him along if he is only going to need rescuing at that end?
ReplyDeleteWas he unconscious? Boy, I thought he was just knocked down and stunned the The Witch using some witchy TK. But in the same vein, my husband and I have a drinking game for Sam and his chair-fu. Would you say 14 episodes being tied up, 14 (maybe different or overlapping episodes) of being unconscious? Talk about the NFL's "concussion problem" Supernatural has SAM who should be going hominahominahomina in the corner by now.
ReplyDeleteIt's like Charlie had gotten around Dean 2-3 times in the episode, he saw her MURDER drunk driver dude. She was NOT getting around him to threaten Light Charlie, Light Wizard (whom he only knew as CLIVE - what a name, as untrustworthy as RANDY imo - or heaven help us SAM. ANYBODY threatens Sam they are going for a dirt sandwich.
ReplyDeleteHe didn't beat up Dark Charlie HALF as badly as he did Sam in You Can't Handle the Truth - that was a 14-hit beatdown that I counted each hit because it was a surprise that Sam didn't DIE from a crushed skull.
I got a question: does anybody know the mechanics of a fight like that? Would Felicia Day be switched to a stunt double or whatever just in case Jensen Ackles misses with one of his hits (I know he was missing and they just added in sounds but jeesh, I always wonder HOW much the actors are missing by)?
Yeah, Ginger, on the ONE HAND I knew Dean was going to feel GUILTY; on the OTHER HAND, hit her AGAIN.
ReplyDeleteIf I was a good person I would not be split like this. Maybe it's because the show thinks Charlie is beloved by ALL that we would be horrified rather than screaming Hit her AGAIN, DEAN, at our tv sets.
Ginger, do you have an opinion on Cole (forgot the actor's name) being one of the guys who tried out to be Dean?
ReplyDeleteIf I remember it correctly they called both Jared and Jensen in to test for SAM but then decided on Jared almost immediately and Jensen said he wanted to try for Dean anyway and they had the right chemistry.
I don't think badly of Cole as an actor. But I tried to put him in any one of Dean's scenes, and I guess I mostly can't see him as Jared's brother. I don't think Jared and Jensen look alike at all (different body types, different facial features - ALL facial features) but I do see that Jensen looks so much like Samantha Smith he could be her brother (especially the same mouth).
I thought The Witch whammied him when she TK'd him into the shelf.
ReplyDeleteThat was what I saw anyway. Sam was stunned from the whammy.
And then The Witch was stunned when she tried to whammy Dean and it didn't work (MOC?).
I got one huge big question to the general audience here: I thought Mrs Patmore played The Witch.
ReplyDeleteBUT IMDB called her Gretel.
I don't think that is right. I think Hansel (who said the Brothers Grimm story was a "take" on the folk tale) ended up eating Gretel with The Witch. Creepiest backstory ever. I can't think of a worse backstory.
What's does the "rose colored viewing of earlier seasons" comment have to do with anything? Yes, Kripke used young girls, and they were very close to the same age as the J2s when they started the show. The J2s are now fully developed adult men and the contrast is striking -- as is the talent.
ReplyDeleteThe point is that I FEEL (and you obviously do not feel the same way) that the network has mandated the show to seek out a younger audience for their hopeful spinoff, and that is why we are getting a string of young actors and stories about angst and coming of age problems.. The result of trying to appeal to that demo is that SPN is getting stories more focused on angsting and all the problems of the teenagers (or call them 'young adults' if you want and not stories about the supernatural. They are also getting a lot of inexperienced actors and it clearly shows. Teen Tina and Teen Dean were exceptions to people like Claire and Barbi Werewolf.
Think Bloodlines, Crowley's mommy issues, and Cas' daddy issues, and you will perhaps understand what I am saying.
I will also just tell you that you need not spend a lot of time coming up with some retort that you think makes you look clever, because I will not longer respond to your posts. I assume you are in the demo the show is seeking, since you never add anything to conversations, except remarks that you think make you look clever. They don't. They just make you look argumentative.
As I understand it, David Nutter had worked with JA on either Dark Angel or Smallville and was so impressed with him, that he called him to audition for Sam. JA did, but told them he would be interested in Dean's character. JP auditioned and they thought he was perfect for Sam's role. EK said he took the tests to the producers and they all thought JA looked like and would make a better Dean, so EK called JA and asked him if he wanted to be the "Han Solo." That's the way I remember it going down from EK and JA's early interviews.
ReplyDeleteTravis Aaron Wade said he also auditioned for Dean's role, but didn't get the part. In other words, I think TPTB had already decided they liked the J2s.
Keep in mind that because of EK's inexperience, the producer demanded that he have experienced people on-board, and David Nutter has a reputation for doing really good pilots, so he was carrying a lot of weight with him. I do specifically remember him saying that he had worked with JA before and was very impressed. I can't remember if that was on the S1 DVD commentaries or not.
I had already read where Wade said he tried out for Dean's role when the episode aired, and while I was watching the episode, I kept thinking "Thank Chuck we got JA."
Oh, I understand what you are saying, but making the brothers look dumb or incompetent has gone on throughout the show in various episodes.
ReplyDeleteGlass is a Dean fanboy, of course, and regardless if this episode was enjoyable or not, he always has problems with his scripts (Tessa points out some of those in her review)....and you already know that I hated Bad Boys. Sam was really depicted dumb in that episode, and I didn't care for Dean, either, since Glass admittedly wrote that based on his teen years.
My point, though, was that in this case, I think there was a valid reason for Sam being knocked down and groggy that fit into the whole point of the episode. Could it have been done better? Sure, it probably could have. Could Sam have not been there at all? No, it was absolutely necessary for the Sam to be there because of the whole point of the episode if, like me, you take Sam's thanks and comment about being pulling a Dean Winchester as an anti-Purge speech and that Dean has to sincerely believe that Sam has faith in him.
For me, I am clinging to the anti-Purge thing, because I needed to hear something from Sam to redeem his S8 and S9 actions. The "I lied," just was not enough for this viewer, but I am okay with it now.
I think the IMDB board has it wrong. I think the episode specifically said that Hansel and the Witch ate Gretel. I've only watched the episode that once, but I think I remember narrative to that effect.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that Wade is a poor actor; I guess I am just really stuck on Jensen in the part now.
ReplyDeleteOne of Lost's DVDs had actors' screen tests and Matthew Fox tried out for Sawyer but they saw him as Jack so he got that part.
The first three episodes were on TNT yesterday, and it was amazing to me how the two actors really jelled as Sam and Dean EVEN if they don't look much alike.
But I still think Wade looks less like Jared than Jensen does and Jensen doesn't at all.
Thank you for answering my two questions here. I just got an "ancient" vibe from The Witch character, and it made more sense to me that Hansel would be her most-willing servant if she had led him to the dark place where he partook of his sister.
PS The Hansel actor was even bigger than Jared, so it was not a surprise to me he could knock him down. Jared was not USELESS in the kitchen fight, he just got taken down by The Witch who was more than he could handle.
Do you agree that she tried to TK or stun Dean and could not do either with MOC Dean?
"Dude, I’m way too big to fit in that."
ReplyDelete"First time you ever had to say that, huh?"
That slice of gold, and young Dean's performance (which was a million times better than in S9: Bad Boys) were the only things of merit in this episode. The fairy tale angle was weak and poorly played, grown up Tina somehow resisted the urge to sleep with Dean (really? how is this possible? did she even look at him?). And why didn't Tina revert back to her age when the pouch was destroyed? Magic rules retcon?
If you're gonna go for some twisted take on Hansel & Gretel then really go for it. Show us something new and creepy, or barring that hilarious.
This show hasn't been creepy in ages. SP has veered too far into the "camp section" and needs to really work on getting it's edge back. I don't mean broody and depressing, I mean genuinely creepy. Hansel & Mrs. Patmore could have been taken down by the Monster Squad, nevermind a teenage Dean. Let's bring some worthy adversaries to the table shall we. Especially since they wimped up the ones they had (Crowley, Metatron, Abbadon, Crowley!)
And that Taylor Swift joke was embarrassing. "It's funny because Dean likes old school rock music, but he's listening to Shake it off" Hardee har har. Ya that joke was both funnier and more believable the first time they made it. S7: Slash Fiction.
The actress that played young Tina, will always be that whiny kid clutching her doll from The Tomorrow People to me, lucky for her, I'm one of like 10 people who watched it. :)
Better than last week, but still not as good as S7, and that's saying something.
How much more interesting would it have been if she was Gretel, and they had killed the witch and taken over her "business"....
ReplyDeleteMeh, not that much more interesting I guess, since it was a lame premise to begin with. #whatHappenedToThisShow
I think Hansel said after they tried to run away (after 'be spelling' many people in 100's of years) the Witch caught them and Hansel had to eat Gretel's heart.
ReplyDeleteI am not as Sam did not have a need to say he lied he was not the cause of what happened . And the Purge should not of been allowed to deflect away from Dean's actions so he became the victim, both Carver and the fandom should of had more guts when it came to Dean last year . Sam's words in the Purge came from a place of what he had just been put through and living with the knowledge it was him that killed Kevin. And Dean told him he would do it again so while I know EDG's like to think Sam just says these things just to be horrible to Dean that is far from the truth.
ReplyDeleteAnd considering the awful vicious things Dean has said in the past to Sam the Purge outcry was as hypocritical as it comes.
Last season was the most gutless I think I have ever seen .
14 episodes unconscious
ReplyDeleteHa. The Hansel actor, Mark Acheson, played the tooth fairy in I Believe the Children Are Our Future (5.06).
ReplyDeleteAs far as Wade, I think he's a decent actor, but he definitely is not on a level with JA.
My problem with him is that Cole was written as a psychopath in the beginning (which fits in with this season showing human's as monsters), and I thought he was trying too hard to channel JA's Dean. Maybe that was the direction he got, though. There was a weak attempt to rehabilitate the character, and I don't know what they will do with him upon his return in a couple of weeks. I wonder if that one will be his second audition for a spin-off?
Personally, I did not see any MoC in Dean when he took on the witch. Dean is a violent hunter, and always has been. The line between MoC Dean and real Dean are so blurred at this point, I am lead to believe that the MoC story is pretty insignificant at this point. With Dean not hulking out when he took on the witch, I think the show's focus is turning to something else now. Not sure what that something else is, but it will probably be revealed in the Cain episode.
Pretty much agree. Loved nearly everything until the boys stumble upon Hansel. His story was lame (and not that believable – except to the Winchesters, apparently), the witch's exposition was way too long, and we didn't even get to see the villains being villainous. The fight scene was weak and made little sense, and Sam was needlessly sidelined. The boys are good fighters, and it drives me crazy when the show forgets that they're smart and capable.
ReplyDeleteI actually liked the conversation and the Taylor Swift bit at the end, but overall the weak MOTW kept what was otherwise a great episode from being one I want to immediately re-watch.
I agree that Sam has faith in Dean, but I still don't see how Sam being knocked out shows that or how it makes Dean see that. Even if Sam had no faith in Dean and was knocked out, Dean would still do his best to save Sam b/c that's what Dean does. So, I'm trying to understand your POV, but I'm having trouble w/the idea that Sam being incapacitated served some great purpose. Why would Sam need to be incapacitated to demonstrate his faith in Dean? I don't get that at all. If that has been the purpose of Sam's actions lately, then to me, he has shown his faith in Dean by allowing Dean to roam the world w/o a chaperone, by giving Dean freedom and space to be, by letting Dean run off w/Dark!Charlie, by letting Dean hold huge knives, by letting Dean put himself in situations where Dean is likely to fly into a rage. Sam being knocked out is just Sam being knocked out.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, IMO, everything seems to be leading up to Dean saving himself. I don't think Sam is going to have much of a role in this MOC story beyond reassuring Dean on Dean's ability to control the Mark.
Like I said, this was the FIRST episode I've mostly enjoyed this year. I would even watch it again, but I don't think there was a larger purpose to rendering Sam incapacitated. That just seems to be the way AG sees the character - weak and ineffectual.
I saw that too and thought that maybe the real story was that after Gretel killed the real witch (as the fairytale goes) she became a witch herself and followed in her footsteps. Either that or the story is as loosey goosey as it seems.
ReplyDeleteI didn't see it that way at all. She seemed to do what we've seen many of the villains do - toss Sam across the room. If that is what happened, it wasn't very clear.
ReplyDeleteOh, wow, a review on Saturday again! Yea!!It's as if the universe was listening and when it heard I'd decided to leave Saturdays open to write the review made my Saturdays busier than my workdays. It's all right, though. The disclaimer was just so you know if you don't see a review on a Saturday and not heard anything beforehand, that there'll definitely be one posted on Sunday :)I thought in this case that it served a purpose in that Sam needs to show in word and in deed that his faith in Dean is sincere.I know a lot of times fans analyse things that happen on the show as signs of certain things. Like the reason Sam didn't fight was because he wanted Dean to fight to show him he trusted him. I wished I could get behind all these intelligent and detailed studies. Unfortunately most of times I don't think that's what the writers were thinking at all. Half the time they do things because it serves their story (the current story they are telling, not the overall story) better action wise. Here I think Glass wanted teen Dean (his brainchild in a way) to shine, so he gave him the honors. Last week of course Thompson was worshiping at Charlie's altar so she got to do everything. That's seriously as complicated as I think it is.
ReplyDeleteCarver is doing what he did season 8-9 only instead of Dean it's Sam now. He doesn't understand that fans want both equally not one or the other. Sam loses a few, Dean does. Nobody can be on top of their game 24/7.
ReplyDeleteNo I'm not in the demo, I just don't engage in hyperbole over the smallest things. Like mentioning Alex in an episode = skewing for a younger demo.
ReplyDeleteI stopped thinking about the money thing after Dean told Frank (remember Frank from Leviathan season?) after Bobby died "We paid you 15 grand for this!" 15 grand? Where the hell did you get $15,000 dollars to pay someone when you're poor? Anyway, after that ridiculousness I shrug my shoulders when a money thing comes up.
ReplyDeleteOh and the actress who played the witch was awful. So corny. I don't watch Downton Abbey so didn't know who she was--just thought her acting was so over the top I couldn't stand it. So, I liked the episode until she showed up. :)
I know a lot of times fans analyse things that happen on the show as signs of certain things. Like the reason Sam didn't fight was because he wanted Dean to fight to show him he trusted him. I wished I could get behind all these intelligent and detailed studies. Unfortunately most of times I don't think that's what the writers were thinking at all. Half the time they do things because it serves their story (the current story they are telling, not the overall story) better action wise. Here I think Glass wanted teen Dean (his brainchild in a way) to shine, so he gave him the honors. Last week of course Thompson was worshiping at Charlie's altar so she got to do everything. That's seriously as complicated as I think it is.
ReplyDeleteTessa, I couldn't agree more w/you, esp. the bolded part. These writers, and this regime, is not that complicated or "deep." What you see is what you get. Sam got knocked out for no reason other than AG wanting Dean to save everyone. I didn't get the impression that Sam consciously chose to stop fighting to show his faith in Dean. He literally couldn't fight. He was practically unconscious from being tossed into the shelf.
LOL! With this bunch of overgrown emotionally adolescent writers (Glass and Thompson, at least) you are probably right...but it wasn't Teen Dean that made the kills; he only got the hex bag back.
ReplyDeleteThere really isn't any intelligence or detailed study involved in thinking that Sam needs to show Dean by word and by deed that he has faith in him and, IMO, it is a matter at looking at the season's story and not just one scene.
You have said yourself that Sam has been a dick for years now (well...you said it nicer), but the fact is that he hasn't been shown to be a trustworthy hunter (look at poor Martin); as a person, he was all over the place; he wanted to hunt, he didn’t want to hunt; he was sick or mental, he didn’t want to die, he wanted to die); he couldn’t be trusted to have Dean’s back (think leaving him in Purgatory without looking and being pissy because Dean came back); as a friend (think dumping Kevin), and he was just an all-around lousy brother (think disowning Dean as a brother).
Sam's story, so far this season anyway, of being Dean's emotional rock, of showing both faith and trust in Dean as a person, through speech and action, makes me trust in Sam's character again, and how that relates to this one scene is that Sam needed to see Dean make the self-sacrifice so he could sincerely tell Dean that he recognized that act for what it was. It may not be what Glass intended (because we all know Glass), but that is how I choose to see it, because I desperately want to like Sam again, and I do this season.
That said, I fully expect the writers to screw it up. When have they ever failed to do that in the last few years?
Well, remember all that antique gold Bobby was loading them with before they departure to the Wild West times? All that gold they recovered after defeating dragons? I bet they are liberating some goods from monsters as they go. And MoC bunker with all that occult and historical artifacts and old books?
ReplyDeleteHmm. Well, I loved that teen Dean loves Taylor Swift! Loved the humor of that episode!One Direction, Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift...all mentioned in one episode, hilarious!
ReplyDelete