2.15 - "Spellcaster"
Reviewed by Gavin Hetherington
In case you missed it, I'm temporarily taking over reviewing Sleepy Hollow this week until Romain can review the last three episodes of the season. Be sure to read my review of Kali Yuga that was posted yesterday. My review of Spellcaster will be posted on time on Tuesday.
Season Guide
Click on the episode title to be taken to that review of the episode. Advance previews will be linked in paranthesis after the episode titles. Some episodes did not get an advance preview. Episodes 1-13 were covered by Romain Ossust.
2.01 - "This Is War" (Advance Preview)
2.02 - "The Kindred" (Advance Preview)
2.03 - "Root of All Evil"
2.04 - "Go Where I Send Thee..." (Advance Preview)
2.05 - "The Weeping Lady"
2.06 - "And the Abyss Gazes Back"
2.07 - "Deliverance" (Advance Preview)
2.08 - "Heartless" (Advance Preview)
2.09 - "Mama" (Advance Preview)
2.10 - "Magnum Opus"
2.11 - "The Akeda" (Advance Preview)
2.12 - "Paradise Lost"
2.13 - "Pittura Infamante"
2.14 - "Kali Yuga"
2.15 - "Spellcaster" (Advance Preview)
2.16 - "What Lies Beneath"
2.17 - "Awakening" (Advance Preview)
2.18 - "Tempus Fugit" (Advance Preview)
'Spellcaster' Preview
"There are witches among us!"
I'm reviewing the show Salem for SpoilerTV when the show returns on April 5th, so be sure to check those out! This was the perfect episode for me to preview so I thank Romain for giving me the chance to step up for this episode. I can't be the only one who absolutely loves anything to do with witches - Charmed, Eastwick, Witches of East End, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, etc. - so this is the perfect episode for my witchy obsession. If you love witches too, you'll love this episode.
There's still some time before the end of the episode when they take down Kent. In fact, it gets a lot more interesting with Katrina after he's gone! Guys, I cannot stress how much we needed this episode to get Katrina back to a place she was in in season one. Bad-ass. You know what, Katrina isn't the only one who is bad-ass. Irving is bad-ass too, and even Henry. As much as I love Jenny, it was great to get some more screentime with the others to really flesh them out in this episode and with Hawley gone too, as much as I liked him, this episode was (to me) one of the best episodes of this season. That might have to do with me being a lover of witches and the fact that I'm still a fan of Katrina, but I think even those who think Katrina has been useless or annoying this season will change their minds once seeing this episode.
This wasn't a filler episode. This is actually leading to bigger and better things in the final three episodes as we get more surprises and twists concerning the characters. I look forward to writing my full review of the episode when it airs and I hope everyone enjoys the episode as much as I did.
Teases
- Check something else off on our 'things we want to see Ichabod do in the twenty-first century' lists.
- We first see Katrina in this episode when she's playing with her magic. Writers have heard us!
- Henry finally returns after he disappeared after the mid-season finale.
- We do get quite a bit of explanation of magic in this episode, like how Katrina's comes from nature.
- In the flashbacks to Salem, Katia Winter is there... but she may or may not be Katrina.
- We get backstory on Katrina's family.
- There is no fighting between Abbie and Ichabod for a nice change from the past few episodes.
- Something happens with Katrina when she tries to stop Solomon that I'm expecting some great things in the future with her.
- Irving makes a couple of appearances but nothing that furthers the mystery surrounding his reawakening, instead cementing the idea that something is not right with him.
- Jenny does not make an appearance in this episode.
- Ichabod goes Rambo.
- Characters are back to being 100% fantastic. I really missed them.
- In my opinion, one of the best episodes this season.
Have any questions about the episode? Let me know in the comments and be sure to watch the episode of Sleepy Hollow when it aires on February 2nd on FOX at 9PM!
Can't wait for you guys to see this episode!
ReplyDeletenope....sounds like too much Katrina.....but thanks for letting me know
ReplyDeleteI'm glad, and no problem 😄
ReplyDeleteWe get it..... you love Katrina. If I counted correctly you used her name 12 times in this review.... Your bias is showing.
ReplyDeleteIt's magic galore in this episode. And thanks very much for that, much appreciated! I do hope this episode helps soften the Katrina hate.
ReplyDeleteVery sorry about that, but this episode really was there to sort of showcase Katrina's talents and she helps a lot more than she has lately, so it was unavoidable to use her name 12 times. Did you count how many times I used Abbie and Ichabod? No? Because almost everyone hates Katrina and I don't. No bias. I'm just not critical and it's about time someone doesn't hate on her just for the sake of hating her. Katrina is supposed to be a main character so it's not strange to focus on her once in a while.
ReplyDeleteNO!! - that is my response to the title of this article.
ReplyDeleteToo little too late. I am resigned to this show either being cancelled or I am going to give it up at the end of the season.
ReplyDeleteSeason two for the most part was focused on Katrina. A lot of dislike aimed at the character, is because it sidelined one of the main characters..... Abbie.... I was under the impression that Katrina is a supporting character. The show should revolve around the two witnesses and no, I'm not a shipper...., however I noted your preference for a platonic relationship between Ichabod and Abbie.
ReplyDeleteCan I ask a personal question? Is English not your first language? The reviews on this site are difficult to read because they are filled with grammar and spelling mistakes.
ReplyDeleteI guess that's fair and it's a shame you won't change your mind about the show. It's still an interesting episode if you like things to do with the witch trials and that.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the preview Gavin, looking forward to it! It's about time we see Katrina use some of her magic.
ReplyDeleteP.S I sent a tweet out for you to a friend on twitter (Who has a fansite&twitter account dedicated to SH) she will RT it when he sees it. Her followers and I often talk about the show, so they should like the early preview!
I'm from the UK. English is my first language and can you point out those mistakes? I'm currently studying English Literature at University so my spelling and grammar is very good. I don't know if you usually read my reviews as this is only my second Sleepy Hollow review in two days. I usually review 2 Broke Girls and Pretty Little Liars.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to the episode. Thanks for the review.
ReplyDeleteThere's more Katrina than usual but she disappears halfway through the episode to 'recharge' so even though a lot of it has her doing magic and helping, she's not in the episode all the way through. It's more Abbie / Ichabod / Irving that save the day.
ReplyDeleteReally? Would you prefer it if they kept her useless and soaking up screen time for absolutely no reason, or would you not prefer she helped out and did so in an interesting way? At least she isn't the weak link dragging down the episode anymore.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair when I think back on season 2 as a whole I don't remember much of what Katrina has done. I haven't been keeping up with why people hate Katrina, I thought it was because of Abraham but I mentioned in my review of Kali Yuga that I understand why people have become uninterested in her. I'm just not a very critical person and I was excited by this episode because I thought people were bored with her and that's she's been useless but she really comes alive in this episode. I do agree that all focus should be on Abbie and Ichabod as they are the best part of the show for me, I guess I just like it when there's fleshed out characters besides those two. And while Katrina helps in a big way in this episode, it's still Abbie and Ichabod that save the day :)
ReplyDeleteThis would be a lot better if you focused on the content of the episode. Instead we get to read about how you excited you are that Katrina is there, how much you love Katrina like for realisies, how pretty you think Katrina is, Katia's natural hair color, how much you love witches, how you think it's a good thing Jennie isn't there and that instead we get Katrina, how cool it is Katrina uses her powers, etc. Nothing you said made this episode seem exciting. Nothing.
ReplyDeleteit's about time someone doesn't hate on her just for the sake of hating her.
ReplyDeleteThis. Whether people see her as a supporting character or a main character (I think she's a supporting character, but still important, like Jenny and Irving are, to Ichabod and Abbie's lives and the story), the fact remains she's here, and she's part of the story in a lot of big ways (she's the mother to one of their main villains. That's kind of a big deal). So they might as well put her to good use.
Like you note, all I heard from fans last season and a good part of this one was how useless she seemed to be and how they needed to show her being a witch and using her powers, instead of just telling us, and so forth. Now they are trying to do more with her character, are trying to make her more into the powerful character people have been asking for, and people are still complaining. I don't get this fanbase sometimes. Even if one argues her character development is coming too late, fair enough, but the bottom line is, it's happening now, and if people actually gave it a chance, they might grow to at least find her an interesting character, if not outright love her.
(Personally, I think the writers, if they have been listening too much to the fandom, should stop doing so and just tell the story they plan to tell, whatever it is. But still, it seems very odd for fans to keep complaining if the writers did listen to their issues with Katrina and are trying to remedy those concerns.)
Bah. End rant. Anywho, thanks for the review/preview of tomorrow night. The Salem witch trials are always an interesting starting point for a story/episode, and I look forward to seeing how Ichabod and Abbie handle the case that comes up, and how Katrina uses her powers throughout to help them along the way. You have me particularly intrigued about some of the stuff that happens with her after everything with Kent, and the flashbacks showing Katia there...and maybe not as Katrina. Hmmmmm... It is a shame that Jenny isn't in this episode, too, but I suspect (hope) we'll see her again before the season wraps up :). It will be nice to see all the other characters, though, at least. Look forward to tomorrow.
Thank you for a great review!
ReplyDeleteWow, I really don´t get some people. If an episode has very few scenes with Katrina, then she is boring and not doing anything, and why haven´t they killed her yet?
And if she is in a lot of scenes in an episode, she is taking screentime from Abbie and Ichabod, she does nothing but lie, and why haven´t they killed her yet?
Some people are never satisfied.
Excellent rant. Likey
ReplyDeleteThanks for good review that intrigues and excites.
ReplyDeleteOh my God, agree with this ten thousand percent! Katrina is important whether people like it or not and she has a big influence in Ichabod's life. She may not have been the most helpful but she really has been trying, especially in this episode, to remedy that. People find it easier to hate a character and blindly hate them even when they have a redeeming arc. I've never hated Katrina though there have been times where I have understood where complaints have come from but seriously, this much hate is blinding fans from enjoying the show for what it is and it's pretty upsetting as a Sleepy Hollow fan myself. The writers can't win at this point unfortunately though I think they have taken concerns on board and tried to improve some situations. Thanks for that rant, good to know there are people on her side too.
ReplyDeleteAnd thanks for liking the preview :D So much to look forward to, and the last several minutes promise an exciting future for the show. I did miss Jenny, I adore her relationship with Abbie and how they've grown close. Might just be a one-off by missing this episode but I'm not sure. I think you're right though, she'll definitely be back before the season wraps.
I understand you can't reveal too much of the plot. Really. But there exists middle ground. They've already released a few interesting clips from this episode, including a rather sweet scene between Irving and Abbie and clips showcasing the rather frightening Solomon. None of these clips are revealing but they're very interesting. You could have focused on things like that rather than, say, Katia's hair color...
ReplyDeleteThe show hasn't even been renewed yet and you're doing it zero favors by gushing over one of the very elements that brought it to it's knees. Most people are not going to want to see it base don this. Period. Also, no need to be sanctimonious re: Katrina. I had a "wait-and-see" attitude toward her myself up until this past October whcih I screamed from the top of my lungs to the rest of the fandom that had wisely given up on her. Too little, too late.
Sounds terrible. I don't really want to see Katrina doing magic or not. She's way past her expiration date. The main complaint has been that she and her family drama is consuming the show, leaving too little space to far more important characters. Abbie seems to have a perfunctory role once again. I miss the days, where she was considered a lead in the show. In short, I've never been and I will never be into this horrible Katrina Hour they've turned this show into.
ReplyDeleteHaha. Katia's hair colour again, because two sentences of an entire review is emphasising that. Wow.
ReplyDeleteI do admit I got carried away with Katrina for this preview but it was Katrina-centric so that was unavoidable and I happen to be a fan. I really was in the dark about the whole Katrina hate and I'm sorry that this preview doesn't make you want to watch the episode. I hope that you do anyway, considering you're a Sleepy Hollow fan. Or at least I think you are. I know I wouldn't let hate for a character ruin a show, especially a character who hasn't really done anything to warrant that hatred the past few episodes. Yeah, she might have warranted hate in the first half of season 2 but I think people need to try and move past that and try and forgive her in some way? And bare in mind, it's the writers' fault over the story.
Yeah it's a no win situation no matter what happens in these episodes when it concerns Katrina. Guess it would just be better for them if she wasn't there at all but then they'd have something to complain about how she's never there to help. She helps a great deal in this episode but she'll be criticised for helping out. But thanks for reading, much appreciated :D
ReplyDeleteThanks for the positive comment :D
ReplyDeleteI did mention when it comes to the final battle with Kent, it's Ichabod, Abbie and Irving who save the day. This is an advance preview so I cannot reveal too much so I had to only focus on specific elements of a Katrina-centric episode. This review would have been very short if I ignored Katrina just because the majority want to hate her. And really, you wanna keep mentioning that I emphasise her looks? Two sentences out of a whole review mentions her hair colour. I'm allowed an opinion, right?
ReplyDeleteYou should probably emphasize that in the article instead of gushing about Katrina's looks and magic. People are more interested in the characters and the plot than a Katrina gush-fest. More still people are more interesting in Ichabod, Abbie, and Irving than Katrina; the focus on her is what had killed the ratings. That's why the promos for this episode have down-played and hidden Katrina.
ReplyDeleteThank you! I'm glad to be in agreement with both you and Gavin :).
ReplyDeleteI do not love or hate the character but I do think I lot of folks have gone too negative on a very enjoyable show with very little justification.
ReplyDeleteAgreed haha!
ReplyDeleteExactly, I enjoy Sleepy Hollow for what it is - an entertaining fantasy show.
ReplyDeleteI am just going to assume that you are having a bad day.
ReplyDeleteYou talked about Abbie, other than in passing/name dropping? A miracle!
ReplyDeleteAre you going to keep watching now that Tom has confirmed that Ichabod is completely in love with Abbe? Are you going to be able to enjoy the show for what it is now that Ichabod and Abbie aren't platonic friends but a one-sided love story? Super curious.
ReplyDeleteI won't argue there's more that could've been done with Katrina's character both last season and this one. I understand some of the frustrations-every time she kept going back to Abraham instead of staying with Ichabod and Abbie, for instance, even though she was doing so to keep an eye on him and tip the others off to his plans, I still kept going, "Damnit, stay with the right people!" And I can understand the frustration over her wanting to believe in redemption for Abraham especially (Henry, I'm surprised people were so angry over that one-yes, he's evil, yes, I too don't think he'll change, but he's still her son. ANY mother would try and defend or sympathize with her son, or at least hope and root for them to change for the better. I don't get why people found that line of thinking so strange and unusual). And yes, there's some lies and shadier moments from her in regards to Ichabod that definitely need to be dealt with an explained further (all the stuff with that Weeping Lady business, for instance).
ReplyDeleteBut at the same time, the secrecy and lies tend to add to her mystery and intrigue for me in a lot of ways-every character on this show has their secrets and lies, after all, just a matter of how serious and severe they are. And we do need somebody to balance out Abbie and Ichabod's determination to attack any and all evil that comes their way, someone who can try and show some sympathy and empathy for the villains. It sets up an interesting debate. And if she's going to continue to be involved with Abraham and Henry in some way or another, I want to see her using her manipulative abilities and her powers on them, I want to see her really messing with their minds and making them wonder if she's on their side or not. I think that could be fun. I've always thought her character could be a great go-between, a potential double agent of sorts, and if the show wanted to go that route, I'd love to see how that would play out.
But yeah, anyway, the bottom line is, the show is trying to listen to fans' complaints and take them on, and part of those complaints involved Katrina's characterization. They're listening to you guys, okay? If people really can't stand her that much, then I guess they're going to have to decide whether or not their hate for her will override their interest in watching the show. But for those who still watch and yet don't like her, give it a shot. You might actually be pleasantly surprised. I've not seen "Arrow", but I've read about all the Laurel dislike, and yet now it seems like the show is trying to turn things around with her...and having some success in that regard, if some of the comments I've read elsewhere are anything to go by. Who's to say the same thing can't happen here?
I love the suspense and curiosity you've built up with the review. Agh. Waiting is no fun :p. But yeah, I'm excited.
I'm sorry to hear you think it sounds terrible. I think it was unavoidable for the writers to give Katrina an episode to try and extinguish those criticisms that she's useless and doesn't use magic etc. If you still hate her after seeing this episode, that's totally fine and I guess there is no changing your mind, but I'd hope you'd still enjoy the episode. Abbie still has a great role in this episode as does Ichabod so she doesn't distract from that.
ReplyDeleteHave they confirmed that? I haven't seen anything about that. Was it not a joke?
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, as much as I wouldn't want that to happen, I would still watch. I do love their chemistry but I love the fantasy elements of the show a lot too and how they overcome the supernatural baddies. They work great together. It would weird me out at first but I'd get over it. I wouldn't let something silly cloud my judgement over a show I love. As long as the writers handle that storyline well and they can execute it realistically, I'd be into it. But right now I prefer their friendship the way it is.
Many people suspect he was lying to get ratings.
ReplyDeleteYeah it does sound like it might have been a joke.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, there is a point, where a character is beyond redemption and she's way past it. She was never an interesting or good character. Giving her ANOTHER episode (let's remember she had many this season), only adds frustration on top of frustration. We all know she can do magic, when it's convenient for the plot. That's not the issue. The issue is that she's hogging unearned screentime, while she still remains a boring wishy washy shady character.
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't get about the "Just kill her off already!" comments: people are complaining about all the "Crane family drama" and overall melodrama and so on, sucking all the fun out of the show. Um, guys? If they kill Katrina off, that's only going to add to the melodrama and angst. 'Cause many fans may not care about her dying, but Ichabod? He kind of WOULD. A lot. He might be upset and angry over all the lies and secrets she's told and held from him, but she's still his wife, and he still loves her, and he would be devastated by her death, and take some time to get over it.
ReplyDeleteSame could be said about her turning evil. If Ichabod was willing to listen to Katrina when it came to trying to redeem Henry, do people honestly think he'll just accept Katrina turning evil without trying to do something to help her? No.
So if people are tired of the angst and melodrama, then maybe they shouldn't be so eagerly wishing for her death or turning her evil.
I get the feeling the actors of this show have great fun messing with the fandom.
ReplyDelete"Hate" for a character doesn't ruin a show. However, a show-runner's insistence on trying to force an audience to like a character by using more interesting characters to prop her, dumbing-down the fan-favorites to force her into the story, deconstructing everything that gave your show a huge audience in order to have her drive storylines, having every arc come back to her, and in the process marginalizing your Leading Lady as well as the other PoC characters makes people resent said character. It's called a bait and switch.
ReplyDeleteThere have been numerous pieces from both fans and critics alike about the Katrina Problem. Nothing is stopping you from reading up on it. But for you to cop this attitude in response to people who are trying to save the show from cancellation now that Katrina and Crane Family Drama has nearly killed it is just silly.
At least they have a great sense of humour :D
ReplyDeleteThat is true! While I think Katrina turning evil (I'd hope just temporarily) would be awesome to see as it would give Katia Winter some great material to work with, it would still give Katrina screentime which people would compain about. If she died, Ichabod would grieve and change the dynamic of the show and people would complain. "Get over it already", they'd say. The only thing that people would probably like is if Katrina just disappeared without a trace and Ichabod and the others didn't do a thing to find her. But that's not going to happen, so for now they're stuck with Katrina so she might as well be interesting for them. What happens in this episode for future potential will be interesting, so I hope once the episode airs, some people will give it a chance.
ReplyDeleteOh, yeah, I think in some ways having her be evil could be quite fun-like you said, it'd give her a lot of new things to do and add a new dimension to her character.
ReplyDeleteBut I'd be sad if the show did it just in the hopes of making anti-Katrina fans or shippers happy. If they went that route with her, it should be because it'd be a good organic part of the story, and make her more complex and give her more depth.
If she died, Ichabod would grieve and change the dynamic of the show and people would complain. "Get over it already", they'd say. The only thing that people would probably like is if Katrina just disappeared without a trace and Ichabod and the others didn't do a thing to find her. But that's not going to happen
Exactly.
Indeed :D. But yeah, it's a thing with TV shows, they love riling up and messing with their fanbases. You'd think most fans would catch on to that and play along instead of take it so seriously, but eh.
ReplyDeleteHaha! Yeah, it seems to be a thing with every fandom. There's always that one character who's a lightning rod for hate and ranting. I still say it must be really exhausting to hate a fictional character so much, and don't get it, but it is what it is. *Shrugs*
ReplyDeleteI'm not doing anything to stop the show from being saved, that's a very awful thing to say about the attitude thing. I'm a fan of her character. People are allowed to like who they like and I'm one of those rare ones that like Katrina. I'm sorry you hate her and a lot of other people do but when it comes to me writing a preview for a Katrina-centric episode, then that's what the review is going to be about, much like last week would have been about Jenny and Hawley mostly.
ReplyDeleteI do understand what you're saying about why you and others hate Katrina, I'm not arguing with that. I just hope that people can look beyond this hatred "now" because the show is trying to move forward and fix its problems (which the head of FOX has even said too) so if you and other people just don't want to give this show a chance because of Katrina then there's nothing stopping you from just giving up on the show completely. Either way, Katrina is too rooted into the story and the characters for her to just disappear completely which is what you must want. All the writers can do right now is try to make Katrina as interesting as possible. They can't go back and un-air season 2 and start again. As a Sleepy Hollow fan, I'd hope you'd make an effort to move forward with this show instead of staying in the past.
confirmation:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tvguide.com/news/sleepy-hollow-abbie-vs-katrina-ichabod/
But its the context in which he says it.
I quite liked her in season 1, mainly because it didn't take too much focus away from Crane and Abbie and their mission to fight Moloch etc.
ReplyDeleteThey can make her character turn bad which would at least give her something better to do, as I haven't enjoyed seeing her with Abraham this season trying to save him after all he has done, also her damsel in distress moments have been very annoying to watch as well. They can keep the character they just need to change a lot of things about her role.
I wasn't a fan of her staying with Abraham and trying to redeem him either, but she sees the good in people and that's her fatal flaw. It's a shame too.
ReplyDeleteI think it would be fun to see her turn bad and the interesting things I mentioned coming up could quite possibly lead in that direction, but I'm really not sure, so I can't wait for people to see the episode and help me out on that one because something is happening.
And I like Laurel too. Damn, I really do seem to fall for the people everyone hates. Guess I like to be different? :P
ReplyDeleteWhat strikes me is that the majority of hatred is usually aimed at a female character. Laurel, Katrina. And I like both and I don't think either deserve as much hatred that they get. People are allowed to dislike characters but sometimes the hatred goes just a little too far. I never despise a fictional character as much as some people do. Sure, I dislike characters but never so much that it blinds me enough to stop enjoying a show. My idea of being a fan of a show must be different to most people?
ReplyDeleteJust watched it and yeah, I get that same feeling.
ReplyDeleteI think it's due to people hoping for something too much that will never happen. They'll take anything they can to fuel their desire for something to happen. I can relate to that though as I have countless times wanted something to happen that is sometimes hinted in a show but never executed. But I never take it seriously. Hope can be a dangerous thing in a fandom.
ReplyDeleteAhh thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteYes, we get that you like the character and want fans to view her in a more positive light, but do you have to beat us over the head with it? A little bit of objectivity wouldn't go amiss.
ReplyDeleteBy describing her in terms of her physical attributes, you're actually doing the character a disservice as it is the only thing some of her fans have to recommend her, especially in a season where she is poorly written, poorly executed and poorly portrayed. It all feels heavy-handed and like what the writers attempted to do with telling the audience she's a powerful witch, spy, loving wife and doting mother when what was actually presented onscreen directly contradicted that.
What I don't understand is why you felt the need to outline your take on Abbie and Ichabod's relationship and your ardent desire for it to not turn romantic when the preview suggests nothing of that nature?
Mmhm. As I've said before, I personally like both ships on this show, and I've got pairings on other shows I love, and if any of them became canon, hey, cool, no complaints here.
ReplyDeleteBut I won't act like it's the end of the world if they don't, either. Shipping is a fun part of fandom, but some people can take it to a really crazy extreme. And there's nothing wrong with people having chemistry and their "moments"...and yet not acting on that chemistry or those "moments", either, and remaining friends. Non-shippers out there deserve to have their voices heard as much as the shippers do.
Katrina fans want this show saved too. I'm one of them. I can't tell you to enjoy the show if you don't anymore which is a big shame. I believe as long as Sleepy Hollow can continue delivering intriguing supernatural stories (which it's continuing to do) and showcase Ichabod and Abbie's teamwork (which they are continuing to do) then it's still a good show.
ReplyDeleteAll shows have a rough patch, right? I've been a fan of over 150 shows and not a single one of them had all perfect seasons and episodes. This Katrina-saga was probably what the writers needed to realise what works and what doesn't. They've learned from that right? At least, that's my impression. As fans, we can only move forward and hope the writers know what they're doing, not stay stuck in the past that we can't change.
Yep. With "Criminal Minds", another show I watch, JJ seems to get a lot of the dislike nowadays, and god forbid any female come in and replace Emily (though, so far, the newest replacement, Kate, hasn't had nearly the vitriolic response from fans that Blake or Seaver did, thank goodness). I don't know what it is about female characters in particular that seems to get people piling on, but it is really annoying and really sad.
ReplyDelete(I do know there are some male characters that get rabid hate, too-I haven't seen the show, but I've read the comments about Hook in the "Once Upon a Time" fandom, after all :p! But yes, they don't get it nearly as much as female characters do, for the most part.)
The reason the fan base hates Katrina is because
ReplyDelete1. They want Ichabbie together
2. Katrinas story lines have not been good at all , with more screen time it shows more , and justifies the rabid hating on the character.
3. Katrina is easy to fix , make her deveop more connections and a friendship with the main cast like Abbie at least , right now she seems like a plot device to keep Ichabbie apart.
Kats acctions , e.g.. protecting Headless even though l understand it wont buy her fans .
I dont really think l want Ichabbie together like that , l love their friendship and chemistry as it is.
I like her and l hope we see Katrina be a badass ,If you say its the best episode ever l take your word for it .
I love reading your reviews and we mostly always think the same thing.
Thanks Gav.
Agreed with that last paragraph especially. I don't get people suddenly being all, "I'm done with this show!" because there's a string of a few episodes here and there, or one season, they don't like. Geez, if people were like that with any show, no series would last more than five episodes at best!
ReplyDeleteI find this people just blindly hate Katrina thing funny, because really it's just people blindly love Katrina. Any critique against her is labeled as "hate" or blamed on ichabbie shippers, even though lots of non shippers don't like Katrina. Shippers constancy thrown under the bus by people who consider themselves "real" fans, yet don't care that Katrina's boring storyline and disastrous Crane Family Drama almost got the show cancelled
ReplyDeleteThe writers can win by making the show more like season 1, that has already been proven in the ratings. Calling people who dislike Katina "haters" is not going to save the show or make people like Katrina no natter how hard you try. You article is obviously bias, but instead of just admitting that you go into a long spiel about "haters" and how the writers can't win. The writers would have NEVER been in this position if they hadn't strayed away for what works, and tried to side line Nicole, the show's lead for Katia (who you've obviously got a thing for).
Nothing in your "review" made me like Katrina more, seems to me like this is an episode wasted on more of what we already know, and do not care about Katrina. She's a witch who is sometimes kind of sort of powerful, she had powerful enemies from her past and there's something shady about her, how many episode do we need focusing on Katrina to tell us what we already know? Why even make a "review" if all you'[re going to do is police tone people who don't like Katrina and agree with all three of Katrina's fans?
I'm not beating anyone over the head with it. It's a Katrina-centric episode, so the preview is going to be about Katrina for the most part.
ReplyDeleteAre you talking about how I mention her hair colour once? Is that the physical attributes you're referring to? Because saying I'm doing her a disservice by mentioning that is pretty over the top. In fact it's pretty uncalled for. I mention she's a bad-ass witch and she shows it with some bad-ass magic. She proves she can handle herself and she's good at it too. She helps them out. She doesn't save the day, that's for Abbie and Ichabod, but she helps them out like she's supposed to do.
I said I hope nothing happens romantically between them, doesn't mean I will criticise anybody who ships them (like how I'm being criticised for liking a character a lot of people don't). People have opinions. Reviewers have opinions. Opinions is what feuls conversation. I was watching the episode while I was writing this preview so it was just an observation during a moment in the episode, that's all.
Yes, definitely. I'd hate for the writers to just do things to make people happy. When I heard that there might be a major death coming up, I actually thought Katrina would be the one because it would please all the Katrina haters though I hope that won't happen. The story should flow organically and go the way the writers intend. If they've realised they made mistakes through the fans saying so, then it's fine to try and fix that but it's not the fans who should write this show. I place my trust in the writers and hope they will do what's best for the story.
ReplyDeleteLol, Sleepy Hollow was not a show that marketed about Katrina's magic; although the writers have tuned into that...and if you can only see the problem with the show as fans hating Katrina instead of the original premise that Sleepy Hollow no wonder these writers are trying remake her character likeable...unfortunately is it peep like yourself that producers/writers will continue to listen to that will ultimate result in this once entertaining show cancellation, while blaming it all on "Katrina hate" a character they tried to force down their audience's throat.
ReplyDeleteI saw the video of Mison saying that and I just got the feeling he was playing around.
ReplyDeleteJust ignore that person; it's a fresh account so it's probably an internet troll.
ReplyDeleteIndeed. It can be a perfect case of "Be careful what you wish for." Sometimes it's better to just leave all the "what ifs" to our imagination and let us theorize and write fanfiction and make videos and all that fun, good stuff. Besides that, considering how many fans are now distrustful of the writers on this show, it seems odd that they'd expect a Crane/Abbie romance to be portrayed well by the very same writers they're wary of.
ReplyDeleteI don't watch Criminal Minds but I love Jennifer Love Hewitt and she's the one who plays Kate, right? I'm glad to hear she hasn't had as much hate than what other characters have had.
ReplyDeleteI'm also thinking about Supernatural, when Katie Cassidy and Lauren Cohen joined the show in season 3 and people just hated them because they were female and they were in the same room with Sam and Dean and they didn't like that. I'm guessing some hatred comes from jealousy, but I know other people do hate characters for good reasons so I'm not saying all hate is unfounded. People are allowed to hate but it annoys me when it's for no apparent reason, or they take it so far that the hate is blown out of proportion.
Thanks, yeah I think you're right. Damn trolls lol.
ReplyDeleteI said you're copping an attitude toward people who want the show saved and understand that the Katrina Saga is largely why the show is in the mess it's in. Which you are. Fans are under zero obligation to enjoy crap just because it used to not be crap.
ReplyDeleteAnd I understand the episode focuses on Katrina. But again - you could have focused on other non-revealing content or dedicated more to the actual content and other characters instead of spending so much time gushing. Which you admitted you've done. Like it or not, the show may not even be renewed. And that's largely because of this character.
Yep, she's the one :). And yes, it is refreshing-I like her so far on the show. And I like JLH in general, too. Teenage nostalgia, and all that :p. There's a few people who aren't fond of her, but for the most part they give valid reasons as to why and I'm not trawling through endless comment sections of nasty personal attacks, which is nice.
ReplyDeleteAhhhhhh, yes, I've heard about all the stuff with "Supernatural", too. That fandom in general seems like an interesting bunch, be it with female characters or seasons or the two main guys or whatever-they're very opinionated!
Even half way is way too much of Katrina. If a Katrina fan liked this episode I don't have very much faith in it, I have no interest in seeing her become evil or good now, I just want her gone!
ReplyDeleteI guess some people don't care whether the show is cancelled or not. Even the higher-ups have already admitted the Katrina Saga this season was a mistake.
ReplyDeleteNo one is under any obligation to like Katrina, especially now that they've nearly sacrificed the show at her alter.
No one is under any obligation to hate her either. Everybody is allowed to make their own mind up about her. If people like her, they shouldn't be penalised for doing so.
ReplyDeleteSo much toxicity. Am I, in an Arrow thread about Laurel?
ReplyDelete:P ;) :)
100% agree. Sometimes when characters I think have great chemistry end up getting together, it doesn't work out and then it ruins that chemistry we had before. I'd hate for that to ruin Abbie and Ichabod's friendship as they're just perfect together as partners in crime.
ReplyDeleteCannot wait for this episode! The witch stuff has been something I've been waiting for. Plus, a more in depth look into Katrina! I'm sure I shall enjoy every moment.
ReplyDeleteYes! I am a huge fan of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but that show had some really big stinkers of episodes. If I gave up on that show after a few bad episodes, I never would have watched the amazing episodes that came after it. I didn't like Season 4 of Buffy, but I loved Season 5. Shows improve over time, or get worse, but then get better again. Shows are unpredictable. We just ride them out and pray that the journey is enjoyable enough to carry us to that inevitable series finale.
ReplyDeleteThat's the problem right there...the writers focus on audience liking Katrina instead of getting back to what made people tune into show during season 1; I would tell you Katrina had nothing to do with my love of show during season 1...so that the fact that they continue to focus on her character in an attempt to change audience minds as the ratings continue to decline is telling about their commitment to other characters and the show's overall success.
ReplyDeleteAll my favorite series have episodes I didn't care for, or seasons that weren't their strongest, too. And yet, I was still able to find something good in the midst of them, even if it was just one scene or my favorite character being there or something.
ReplyDeleteAgain, to each their own, far be it from me to tell fans what they should and shouldn't do, and if a show really isn't doing it for someone anymore, I'd much prefer they just drop it and go find something else instead of sit around endlessly complaining about a series they're not even watching anymore (I don't get that, never will). But I guess I just tend to be a more forgiving and patient sort than some people *Shrugs*.
I think the cast is mining a lot of personal humor from both the fandom and the non fans ( though they probably wish they could protect Katia from the attacks against her).
ReplyDeleteAs I've said, I never realised the scope of the Katrina hate until it's been pointed out to me since posting this review and replying to a lot of comments. I now don't think people "blindly" hate Katrina, and I'm a very reasonable person. I can see things from other people's points of view so I can agree with you on a lot of your points.
ReplyDeleteWas my review bias? Maybe a little. Did I focus a lot on Katrina? Yes. Did the episode focus a lot on Katrina? Yes. Should I ignore her just because people hate her? No. I previewed the episode. If I hated a character everybody loved, and I wrote about it in the review, I'd get the same stick. I'm allowed to have an opinion as a reviewer. Because I don't agree with you on disliking a character doesn't make my review entirely bias. I wrote the best I could what happened in the episode without giving away any detailed plot points as this is just a 'preview'. If this was a full review, I would have done an entire recap and a small review of the entire episode where I wouldn't have focused it all on Katrina. But I'm allowed to mention her. This episode is about her so this preview is about her.
My preview is not supposed to make people like Katrina. I'm not police-toning anyone. I'm responding to criticisims of my review because people hate Katrina. If I loved somebody else and gushed about them, like Jenny, I wouldn't get as many comments trying to say I'm wrong for liking Katrina. I guess people who review shows aren't allowed an opinion, but isn't that what reviewing a show is all about? Writing your thoughts on an episode of a show whether it's popular opinion or not.
Agreed. And I think Ichabod and Abbie are closer bonded as witnesses - because of the uniqueness of that relationship outreaching any romantic connection.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely! Breaks my heart when I see Katia tweeting and trying to protect herself from the hate she gets. That's why I feel like I have to defend the character because it's not fair to attack the actress.
ReplyDelete"All I can do is my very best with what I am given. I'm not at all in
control over the story that is being told. That said. I agree with you." - Katia Winter.
Yay! The witch stuff is so enjoyable and interesting to watch. It's a kind of different take on the Salem Witch Trials which I always love when Sleepy Hollow mixes things up a bit. I'm sure you will enjoy every moment, thanks for commenting! :)
ReplyDeleteI'm thoroughly convinced that people who make statements like this... "nope....sounds like too much Katrina.....but thanks for letting me know.".. have never seen Sleepy Hollow nor care to. I mean out of the entire review, this is your complaint? You haven't even seen the episode yet. What, do you go to the grocery store and complain about the vast selection of bread? Seriously, do better.
ReplyDeleteIt keeps a show interesting though right? Fuels your desire to defend it even more when people complain. Fandoms can be tricky but as long as they have people to balance them out, they're alright :) This is actually my first time dealing with the Sleepy Hollow fandom and it's been quite the experience so far haha but it's a debate and I'm a reasonable person so it's all good :)
ReplyDeleteAnd, would you believe, she was attacked for that tweet. I just thought it was sad that it came to that.
ReplyDeleteOh man, really? I didn't know she still got attacked even for apologising and telling them she has no control over the story. Poor woman. Some people really do go too far :(
ReplyDeleteI think, Gavin, what you are experiencing on a small scale is why its frustrating to, currently, be a Sleepy Hollow fan. Of which I am one. Some people have legitimate, intelligent discussion about the show and how to fix its shortcomings.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in this thread what you are experiencing is the fanatical rants/silliness of a minority group that can't be satisfied with anything and complain about everything. While making it crystal clear that there is no rationality motivating their complaints nor do they have the slightest clue how to write a television show. Its ruining the fun for everyone.
Oh, I get that now. Sorry about that. I'm gay so I'm not attracted to the actress in any way but I do appreciate beauty when I see it. I wrote that she was gorgeous with both hair colours because I thought I'd offend people if I only wrote that she looked weird as a blonde. Too used to seeing her with red hair.
ReplyDeleteAfter discussing this I have realised I wasn't completely neutral in my writing of this preview. One point someone brought up was that if an anti-Katrina person wrote this preview, then you wouldn't have anything against that. It's only when different opinions are being voiced is when people have a problem. However I love discussing things like this and seeing from other people's points of view so I hope you don't feel like I was being critical of the fans who hate her. If so, I apologise.
This episode she does help Team Witness and she shows she's a bad-ass witch. If you still dislike her after this episode, then that's completely fine. I just hope it doesn't ruin your enjoyment of the show because that's all I want, for people to love Sleepy Hollow again.
Thank you :)
ReplyDeleteWell it is also understandable that you want to retain your preview privileges by not giving too much away. :) I don't think you need to cater to everyone's tastes, just maybe be a bit more well-rounded when describing the episode. That is, as much as you can without spoiling major details! This way as much is put into describing scenes with one character as there is with another.
ReplyDeleteI hate the complaining. And it's just annoying when we can see the writers trying to fix things but some people are refusing to see that.
ReplyDeleteAs a nonshipper, I find the Katrina character boring, inept and the whisper voice a little creepy. Because of the over emphasis on her character in season 2, I now wait for input from people I trust before watching any episode. One of those people who have seen the episode believes that are indeed making some tentative steps toward correcting the problems of season 2 in this episode. Therefore, even tho' it sounds too Katrina centric, I will be watching this episode.
ReplyDeleteIf I had of been negative in this review, then people wouldn't have wanted to tune in. I tried to be as positive as I could about an episode I truly enjoyed. I don't think I would have written it any differently if I knew the backlash it would get from people who hate Katrina. But if people wanted a review that ignored her completely, then this review wouldn't have been very truthful and I will always review a show honestly and I wouldn't let anything cloud that judgement.
ReplyDeleteThanks for being such a trooper and being on my side through all this. I do appreciate the comments, every comment, but you're right. If an anti-Katrina person wrote this review, it would be filled with hate. I know if I wasn't working with SpoilerTV and I came across a review, I'd want it to be positive about a show I love rather than negative as it wouldn't be very nice. I was honest in my review and that's all I could have done.
Everybody's opinion matters :)
I admire your constant defense of your opinions here. It'd be lovely if people actually chose to just watch the episode and form their own opinions then, instead of getting upset with you for your take on an episode they haven't even seen yet and therefore can't possibly determine whether or not they'll like or dislike, and accepted your personal appreciation of a character that, as you note, you've never forced them to like. You were simply excited about a character. Nobody's reviews will ever be entirely neutral. I'm pretty sure if an anti-Katrina fan wrote a review of this show, they'd be bringing in their personal bias about her.
ReplyDeleteBut since that's not happening, you have my sympathy. And I think you've made some valid arguments. Even if I completely disagreed with your stance on Katrina and didn't think I'd like this episode, I still would appreciate hearing your thoughts.
This is true :p. I'm glad you enjoyed it, I like it when people are excited about an episode of a TV show, it makes me more excited to watch it in turn :). And I appreciate your honesty and stating what you truly thought of a show, and not worrying about the response you'd get. Obviously it's good to take commenters' views into account, but a review should be solely the opinions of the person writing it. And if a commenter disagrees, you can always discuss that with them later.
ReplyDeleteI've read reviews from people who talk about shows I love, too, whom I don't always agree with. But if and when I bring up my disagreements, I always do so in a respectful way (or hope my comments come off respectful, at least), and always try and find some area where I can be in agreement with the reviewer. And if I do think a reviewer has totally missed the mark on a show altogether and I don't like the way they review a show (and the only way that'd happen is if I felt the person was just flat out nasty and curmudgeonly about the show and everything associated with it, to where I'm wondering why they're even still watching-if they're not even having fun watching the show or reviewing it, then I won't have fun reading their reviews), then I just don't read them. Simple as that.
You're very welcome :). I'm just glad to find a few other people here who have similar views as me-I was starting to feel rather isolated in this fandom. I like/love (or in the case of the villains, love to hate) all the characters on this show, I can find the good, interesting things in all of them-it's how I am with the characters on all the shows I watch. I wouldn't watch otherwise. Again, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, as you and I have discussed, but I guess some fans and I just will never see eye to eye. So it's nice to know there's a few out there like yourself who understand.
Well said. No show is perfect, and this one's no exception. There are valid criticisms of it that are worth considering and focusing on and fixing. More use of Jenny and Irving, Hawley and his introduction to the group is something worth discussing and debating, figuring out how to fix up any issues that are there with Katrina, bringing back some of the campy, ridiculous humor from season one that was lacking in spots throughout this season, things of that sort...all worthwhile topics to explore and debate and talk about.
ReplyDeleteBut there's a vast difference between that kind of legit criticism and just flat out complaining, and unfortunately I think sometimes some fans can't always tell the difference. And the bottom line is that people's complaints about an episode can't really be taken seriously if it hasn't even aired yet and they haven't even seen it yet.
Just a few disclaimer notes because I am getting a lot of comments:
ReplyDelete1. After much discussion, I realise there are a lot of people who hate Katrina which is totally fine. People are allowed to hate her and I will respect that, but I'm allowed to like her too and if someone leaves a comment on this review criticising my preview, then I'm going to comment back. I always reply to comments on my reviews.
2. This episode is Katrina-centric. As such, this review is pretty much Katrina-centric. While other things happen in the episode too, I cannot spoil anything as this is just a preview so I must focus on the main storyline as well as other bits and bobs that don't ruin the experience of watching the show tomorrow night.
3. I never criticise a show in my reviews and I am not the regular reviewer of Sleepy Hollow. If you want to read a review that hates on a show, then you won't find that here. SpoilerTV only assigns reviewers who love the shows they review, so no hate will ever published by us. "For the fans by the fans". That's our motto. We are fans of the show.
4. If you feel like I have been criticising people who hate Katrina, I first and foremost apologise. That was not my intention. I only hope that I will not be criticised for liking her which is basically what has been happening also.
5. Finally, I love discussing Sleepy Hollow and having these debates. I appreciate everybody's comments.
I totally get that. I honestly never considered the other aspect of the fandom when writing this preview. I just watched it while I was writing and thinking "this is cool" and "ooo I love that", so my personal opinion does reflect maybe a little too much in this preview. I don't know how Romain usually previews the show as I'm only filling in for him this week, but I kinda got carried away.
ReplyDeleteI will definitely consider all of the points made so far. If I get the chance to preview the show again, I will be sure to cater to everybody rather than just one side of the fandom. Thanks for being understanding though and I hope I wasn't too mean in my replies. I guess I'm just too relaxed with shows that I can be far too positive about certain things.
True, but there is a way to articulate that without your piece coming across as excessively effusive.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget you also mention that you find the actress who plays her attractive hence the comment. It is a disservice when she is a prime example of cliché female character tropes and her entire story arc revolves around her husband, son and ex-fiancé.
Well, she hasn't helped Team Witness at all this season; and as for her being a 'badass witch' that remains to be seen as when her magic has been needed to aid the team, her powers are always weaken or ineffective.
You said 'ever will come,' which is emphatic and implies you have strong feelings on the matter. I did not criticise your liking of the character or want for Abbie and Ichabod to remain platonic as it's entirely your prerogative. I just don't understand why you put it out there. What I was being critical of is your inability to remain neutral while writing.
I won't argue that the constant whispering can be a little "ehhhh" at times. I think that's just how she generally talks, though...I don't know if that can be helped, but if so, it's worth a shot, if for no other reason than so I don't have to turn up the volume to figure out what she's saying sometimes!
ReplyDeleteAs for her being boring, heh, well, in some ways I can relate to her, 'cause she's quiet and a bit shy and sympathetic to a fault. But I can see where characters like that might not be as exciting as the tougher, more adventurous ones out there. And her ineptness-well, she did just get out of Purgatory, it'll take a while for her to regain her abilities. But I do hope she gets them back full force, and soon.
That said, I'm glad that you're willing to give this episode a shot, and I am glad that the show does seem interested in trying to fix the aspects of Katrina people are taking issue with. Hopefully it'll work.
Yeah, no. People have made very good points about the heavy-handedness as well as how exclusive the focus is in the review. To the point where Gavin himself admitted he went a bit overboard.
ReplyDeleteUnderstood :) The only other episodes I've ever previewed are for comedies or Family Guy or The Simpsons so they're a lot different to this kind of show haha.
ReplyDeleteAw. I feel bad for her. It's one thing to hate the character, but any fans that are going so far as to attack the actress herself, and treat her like crap, because of their feelings about her character? They need to grow up and get a life.
ReplyDeleteI did lay on thick my love for Katrina, I admit that, and I should have mentioned other things more clearly too. I respect everybody's opinion of my review and I have seen what I need to do next time :)
ReplyDeleteHere, here! I hope Katia knows there are people on her side too.
ReplyDeleteIs there a reason this character needs to be liked? Considering how poorly written and acted she is, is there a reason why these writers, and certain fans, are determined to make this character important? There are two very interesting main characters and a handful of supporting characters that people already love and are dying to know more about. They have a whole town of people that they’ve barely even scraped the surface of. So why do we need Katrina? Why is her presence so crucial that they’re willing to sink the ratings rather than just get rid of her?
ReplyDeleteSince season one the only thing Katrina has contributed to Sleepy Hollow is whispering plot exposition. No one except her maybe five fans were begging for more Katrina. An entire episode that focused on her and Ichabod was the lowest rated of the series. Yet this season has spent so much time trying to make her relevant. Is there some kind of boring witch quota that needs to be filled? Is the actress screwing one of the writers? Someone explain this to me. Because I’ve watched plenty of shows where a particular character was hated by the fans, and I’ve never seen any of them try so hard to shove that character down people’s throats the way Sleepy Hollow writers are shoving Katrina down ours.
As I said earlier in this thread, I am convinced that anyone who judges an episode before seeing it, had no intention of watching anyway. But, with that said, I am even strongly convinced that they don't own a Nielsen box...
ReplyDelete... Which was completely irrelevant to my response. Nowhere did I address Gavin's preview nor other people's reaction to it. However, in a roundabout way, you did clearly illustrate my point of people complaining without rationality behind it.
ReplyDeleteIndeed it does! It often seems the more hated a character is, the more I feel an urge to defend them (unless they're hated for a good reason, like, they're the most violent, deranged criminal on the planet and comparable to Hitler or something). I just think somebody needs to be in their corner :p. And if I genuinely like the character everyone's dumping on, well, then naturally I want to stick up for them.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, I'm all for a good debate and discussion and fanbases having their preferences and all that good stuff-fandom would be boring if everyone were in complete uniform agreement about everything, and I've found I get some interesting new insights into characters or storylines from people who have a different view of them than me. Just so long as it stays respectful, that's all I care about.
Haha yes, so their ignorance of the episode doesn't matter.
ReplyDeleteThis episode does address that actually, about Katrina's abilities having been in Purgatory too long so we are getting progress in her development. I agree with you about her being "boring" too, as she has those character traits and sympathetic to a fault especially. Seeing the good in people is what has made people dislike her in the past (such as with Abraham and Henry). I'm hoping this progression will work too.
ReplyDeleteSo why do we need Katrina? Why is her presence so crucial that they’re willing to sink the ratings rather than just get rid of her?
ReplyDeleteWell, she's married to one of the main characters, and mother to one of the main villains. Those would be pretty significant reasons for her to be a part of the show. Especially the whole "mother to a villain" one. And while I know that the show is only very loosely based on the original "Sleepy Hollow" short story, at the same time, Katrina was a character in that story, so it's to be expected that she'd be carried over into the TV show as a result.
I'm thrilled that the show did bring in new people like Abbie and Jenny and Irving, I love the modern twist they put on the series with them and think they bring a great dynamic to the show's premise, and the chemistry between them and their interactions with Ichabod are pure undeniable gold. I'm all for learning more about them, and seeing Jenny and Irving play a big part in the everyday goings-ons of the show, and so forth.
But there are legit reasons why Katrina is a part of the show, too.
Actually the problem isn't so much about your original post because it's obvious you are a fan of Katrina, the problem IMO is your overall response regarding peeps posting objection to your info and dismissing of those comments solely as "Katrina Hate" when in fact most viewers like myself who loved and tuned into Sleepy Hollow during season 1 was sold a Abbie and Ichabod centric show; however season 2 is nothing but a "Katrina centric show" so maybe what you deem as "Katrina hate" is viewers rejecting the producers / writers continuous attempt to have them accept the drastic changes they have made to the show with this episode again when they been have promised changes; yet the only change, is a makeover of Katrina's characters so the audience can love her...that shit is call audience manipulation and it will backfire on their ass.
ReplyDeleteShe was accused of throwing the writers under the bus. Which I do not think was her intention.
ReplyDeleteyet the only change, is a makeover of Katrina's characters so the audience can love her...that shit is call audience manipulation and it will backfire on their ass.
ReplyDeleteOr it could be genuine attention to what the fans kept saying about her. And it's not the only change that's been made-you do notice the increase in Jenny and Irving appearances of late, too, right? They're not going to fix every change overnight, they've gotta take a few at a time.
Also, regarding "audience manipulation" to make an audience love a character they've been hating, well, again, I point to "Arrow". Fans complained about the Laurel character on there. The show listened, and is doing more with her. And from what I'm reading online, a lot of fans are responding WELL to that supposed "audience manipulation" of the changes with her. Doing that with Katrina could implode with the "Sleepy Hollow" show, or it could actually work. But we're not going to know unless the show actually tries, are we?
I love all this massive power people seem to think actors have. Sheesh.
ReplyDelete... I can't take seriously anyone who can't intelligibly complete their thoughts without a string of curse words. I'm sure they were meant to emphasize whatever brilliant point you think you made. In actuality, it just highlighted the superficiality of it all to the point that a response would be lost on you.
ReplyDeleteBut thanks for attempting to participate, I guess.
I agree. You are making some very strong counterpoints, Angela. I hope some are actually considering them and won't just gloss it over as "supporting" Katrina.
ReplyDeleteThank you! Yeah, I'm willing to listen to critiques of her character-I've acknowledged and noted those critiques where possible in this comment section so far. But there's a few out there that don't make much sense to me and seem rather presumptuous.
ReplyDeleteLol, so you own the comment section now? because don't give a shit if you take me seriously or not; but thanks for the grading, I guess
ReplyDeleteLOL! the best thing about your curse laden question, which quite clearly demonstrates your burning desire for attention and your intense feelings of personal interest... is that your profile says "business woman." No doubt, self employed. But, do please continue demonstrating how much you care about my prose by dedicating yet another response to further illuminate my point. It's, by far, the most productive contribution you've forwarded thus far.
ReplyDeleteThis thread is toxic. Does there have to be this over the top pile-on whenever a handful of people express dislike of a character (that would be like a peace march at a CW site!). 90% of the comments on this thread are focussed on complaining about anyone who hates Katrina, when it's clear that the majority of people at this site are Katrina fans. I guess that's an improvement on the prior thread where there wasn't a single hateful comment about Katrina, yet practically every single post was someone bashing Katrina haters. Why the obsession with haters? Every character has them. Also, what do twitter comments and posts at other sites have to do with this site? The only thing I can conclude from this ridiculous thread is that people just love talking about haters and aren't interested in the actual topic.
ReplyDeleteA Katrina centric episode yay!!! :D
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing your enthusiasm!!
ReplyDeleteit's clear that the majority of people at this site are Katrina fans
ReplyDeleteIf you're talking about the people who work here, maybe, but that's not the case with the commenters. I've seen much more vocal dislike of her here than I have support.
And nobody is "bashing" Katrina haters. We're just not understanding some of the complaints about her and think some of the dislike (or hate, whichever) towards her isn't entirely warranted, for reasons expressed throughout.
Excerpt taken from a recent interview the actress did with Channel Guide Magazine, which is why some fans feel she had input in the writing of her character:
ReplyDelete“Helping her confidence in the new season, perhaps, is how the writers have become open to suggestions from her on her character.
“They have been [open] lately, which is nice,” said Winter. “I don’t really speak up that much, but I have started to, which is good (we laughs) and I’ve been pleasantly surprised that they’ve actually listened to my input. It’s been good.””
http://www.channelguidemagblog.com/index.php/2015/01/26/katia-winter-says-sleepy-hollow-season-2-little-manic/
Stop it already. People know what has been happening with this show during Season 2 and they know the crap that has been produced in the name of promoting the character, Katrina. And if they choose not to watch a show due to a the dislike of a character, it is their right. Stop trying to make peope seem negative due to their personal choice. They do not like and and do not want to watch her, so be it.
ReplyDeleteThanks for showing your support Jordana! I'm starting to get some Twitter comments myself about my writing skills because we've exhaused the Katrina debate and there's nothing more to say, so it's better to just attack the writing I suppose. Never mind. I do wish there were more comments about the actual episode and what people are looking forward to it rather than putting people down.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree....
ReplyDeleteYour response, Leafer, must have been meant for someone else. Because it had nothing to do with Katrina or people's like/dislike for her. But everything to do with formulating an opinion before watching an episode.
ReplyDeleteToo little, too late. At this point not many people care if she can do magic or not.
ReplyDeleteYou should actually look at the comments on the prior review thread or go through this thread and you'd be surprised how many people don't have a problem with Katrina. I certainly don't hate her, although we can all agree, that the writers need to do a better job of incorporating her into the cast. I just think that the focus on the haters has become a bit over-the-top. I clicked on two threads to discus the topic and it was just frustrating that there was almost no discussion of the topic itself!
ReplyDeleteUhm... It is an episode that ,from what I can tell,is heavily focused on Katrina and witches. What should he have written about? Jenny?worl peace?
ReplyDeleteyou're welcome! :D don't spend your energy on poisoned people, is the best thing that you can do :)
ReplyDeleteWow. Just wow
ReplyDeleteGood question.
ReplyDeleteso comments are now being deleted as well graded lol
ReplyDeleteIf it is a Katrina who is trying to entertain me, NOPE, NOPE, NOPE.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I see that you have done is promote the Katrina agenda. The other characters were an afterthought. Advocating for her at this point of the show is or will not help the show. You were gushing.....
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, I know of many people who are so unhappy with season 2 that they have stopped viewing the show. Getting back these original fans may or may not be possible.
ReplyDeleteFor me if they get the magic of season 1 back - humor, awe, mythology AND if the remember that the witnesses are the leads and focus of the show about their heroes' journey, I will stay for the likely season 3. If they don't, I too will make my exit.
"Agenda"? Really?
ReplyDeleteUhm... If the episode is mainly focused on Katrina, why shouldn't he write about her? *confused*
ReplyDeleteThis author of the article wrote a preview of an episode that involved Katrina. This episode was pretty much Katrina-centric so this preview is too. Yes, I'm a fan of Katrina, that much is clear. If you have a problem with her, that's no problem, but you shouldn't take it out on the show. It's a shame because it's a great episode.
ReplyDeleteYup "Agenda" because there is one.
ReplyDeleteI have to say, I find it really weird that one reason people don't like her is because of her sympathetic attitude towards the villains of the show. On the one hand, I obviously get why that would bug people, 'cause, well, they're villains.
ReplyDeleteBut on the other hand, look at how many FANS defend and love and crush on characters on various TV shows that are villainous and evil, even going so far as to excuse and dismiss their evil acts in the process, and argue for redemptive arcs for them! It's okay for the fans to show sympathy towards and root for evil characters, but none of the characters in a show itself can? Huh?
Hope this also extends to people that tweet at and write racist things about certain characters on the show.
ReplyDeleteYep, haters annoying the hell out of me.
ReplyDeleteThe author of this article is a Katrina stan so I did not bother to read past the second paragraph. The author should know that Katrina is not very popular nowadays, so pushing or selling her will prevent people from tuning in thus, AGAIN, low ratings. I will not be viewing.
ReplyDeleteHe is just digging the show into a deeper grave. People will tune out. He is too busy patting himself on the back for writing his pro Katrina article.
ReplyDeleteAfter looking through all the comments, I'm glad Goffman and his posse won't be back if the reports of Wiseman's increased PR tours are of any indication
ReplyDeleteNo need to apologise and I do appreciate the difficulty in supporting a character that the majority dislike. I just have a hard time understanding why people like her when her character is the one sticking point for a lot of fans.
ReplyDeleteThat many be so, but those reviewers also write with what has been shown to them onscreen in mind, and so far this season, the character is problematic and the writing for her lacklustre.
I'm at the point where I've reached my maximum tolerance of the character and the less screen time she occupies the better. This doesn't mean I won't watch episodes where she is featured prominently.
It's the writers that ruin my enjoyment of the show as they deviated from the winning formula that made it a hit in its first season. My hope is that the changes Fox demanded goes a long way in turning the show around, increase the ratings and attract new and old fans.
I was the hugest of Buffy the Vampire Slayer fans ( I will even cop to still owning an autographed photo of Spike and Drusilla ) but even I will admit there were some real stinkers among the episodes -- demonic plants for the high school science experiment, anyone ?
ReplyDeleteThat's fine if they don't want to watch the show anymore. Perfectly entitled to do that if they so wish.
ReplyDeleteBut then they can't complain about episodes they're not watching, because that doesn't really make a lot of sense. And to rant about an episode that hasn't even aired yet doesn't make sense, either. So she's in it. So what? There still might be other things in it worth enjoying, but people won't know that for sure if they don't watch.
Its not so much the character but Mark Goffman and his crew as well.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think we've exhausted ourselves trying to defend the character. Been looking at this all from different points of views. It has been working in Arrow and I believe it will work with Sleepy Hollow if the audience gives it a chance. That's the problem though, people won't and it's not fair to keep complaining then if they're never going to change their minds.
ReplyDeleteI am one of those who really wants to see Katrina and have her developed more as a character. I am relieved that they are finally recognizing what great character potential she has. Just because you are not interested in her doesn't mean that an advanced preview needs to de-emphasize her, especially if she is a main part of the beginning of the episode.
ReplyDeleteThank God I don't write the reviews for Sleepy Hollow. Wow,the hate on this site sometimes...
ReplyDeleteSo, is this article suppose to convince me that after I watched this episode, I will like Katrina? I'm sorry, but her increasing powers don't make up for me. This is when I will get called a "hater" or a "thug". It just doesn't work if a character is weak and suddenly gets powerful by the Grace of God. If the writers want to like her, make her forgive to Ichabod for doing things behind his back for his "protection" and thank Abbie for letting do her dirty work. Reason why I don't like her: she is selfish and manipulative. Katrina may be getting her centric episode, but it's mainly going to focus on Soloman Kent and his influence on the Salem Witch Trials (America's infamous case). I hope Soloman sees "seeds of darkness" within her, because I would like to believe what is REALLY up her sleeve.
ReplyDeleteHaha thanks. Yeah, let's just spread the love. We all love Sleepy Hollow right? :)
ReplyDeleteThe ratings will declare how wrong you are, sir
ReplyDeleteThanks for writing about the episode as it is instead of how some fans want it to be. The loudest fans are not everybody like sometimes I think online fandom forgets.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day, Gavin, I believe that writing is a form of art. And art is supposed to be talked about, discussed, and (if done right) provocative and/or controversial to create a response. I'd say mission accomplished and tip a glass to creating art in its purest form.
ReplyDeleteOkay, she's made a few comments about things she'd like to see her character do. All actors give some suggestions and input into how their characters are shaped, that's kind of part of the job. I imagine Tom and Nicole have done the same with their characters, too, at times.
ReplyDeleteThat still doesn't exactly equal some sort of total control over the series. Trust me, I think the network and ad opinions, for instance, will hold much more long term weight with the show than one actress' views will.
This article is NOT supposed to convince anyone to like Katrina. This is a PREVIEW of Monday's episode, one I happened to enjoy very much and I happen to like the character. I respect your reasons for not liking Katrina, of course we are all entitled to them, and I'm very glad you will still be watching the episode. The Salem Witch Trials and Solomon Kent play important parts in this episode to feul the narrative, so I'm glad you're focusing on that too.
ReplyDeleteI think your writing is fine. I think you jumped in the middle of a landmine without knowing the history of the thread. In theory, there really should be no problem with a Katrina-centric thread, but I feel like there is a lot of division among fans, and the result is that some fans are very sensitive about Abby not getting attention, and other fans sensitive about fans hating on Katrina and it's eating up the threads. .Abbie and Ichabod are my favorite characters, but I also think that it's important to work on developing other characters and that definitely includes Katrina. I think there are definitely ways to do this without shortchanging the lead characters but I'm not sure if the writers are doing a great job of it. See......now I can't even remember what the topic was about!
ReplyDeleteThe loudest fans are not everybody like sometimes I think online fandom forgets.
ReplyDeleteOh, lord, is this ever true.
I can just picture Gavin's inbox right now, how flooded it must look :p.
ReplyDeleteHaha yes, I agree. This is actually my most-discussed review by a long run. I have to thank everybody for that. It's been a very long but great discussion.
ReplyDeleteActually I started season one. I started to watch because I love Nicole. To see her side lined this season is disgraceful. I did not tune in to see the cranes and the restless.
ReplyDeleteAt this point, in the wake of Goffman ignoring viewers and Metzner and co.'s hostility and arrogance towards them (w/ the arrogance the size of Dan Slott's!), the show's in need of a change behind the scenes and the crew in question are at the heart of what's went wrong this season
ReplyDeleteGive over! We do care. Its clear Goffman and his writing staff doesn;t giving their poor track record.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Abbie has been sidelined; however, I actually feel that Abbie and Ichabod have gotten way too emoangsty and soap opera-ish as well. There was a time when this show was about action/humor and not everyone pouring out their feelings in a neverending sob fest of blah.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely relate to the whole Abbie thing and if people feel like she is being neglected over Katrina. That's fair enough and I'd hope the writers remedy this which I think they have done lately. Abbie and Ichabod are perfect, I don't think they need any more development (well sure they do but it's not vital at this moment in time) but other characters do need fleshing out so we have a fully-rounded complete cast.
ReplyDeleteI was hoping people would discuss the episode and look forward to it when I posted this preview. Never mind.
Of course, I would like to see the Witch Trials (I am a big history nerd) and Solomon Kent looks like a badass villian that I would love to see. Sleepy Hollow is really too late that Katrina's powers are showing. So, I'll see if this episode will be worthy of my interest again.
ReplyDeleteThe writing is kind of all over the place this season. The way they backpedaled on the Hawley story illustrates that so well.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't mind some new blood in the writing department to bring things back to life.
ReplyDeleteThis has bugger all to do with shipping. THis is about how the current showrunner morphing the show into a CW programme when its not
ReplyDeleteI hope so, just go into the episode with an open mind and you might be pleasantly surprised. Solomon Kent is a great villain.
ReplyDeleteI like the name Solomon Kent. It sounds ominous.
ReplyDelete??? You this thread is full of fanatical, silly rants. When in fact people raise great points and even take time to explain to Gavin where they're coming from. He's even admitted he laid it on thick too. Seriously, he's even accepted the criticism.
ReplyDeleteHe's such a great actor too, he plays ominous very well. Got to admit I was a little scared of him when he'd come on the screen.
ReplyDeleteRight. You can't blame those who aren't amused with how the staff have been going about Katrina. Not to mention that the first season showed she work in small dosage. Hell, the fact she got more focus this year put most folk in mind of how Heroes went off the rails with having Skylar on a pedistal.
ReplyDeleteI still find the fact that Goffman wanted Abbie to remain in Purgatory longer and also wanted Frank and Jenny killed off permanently alarming along side Metzner's self insert character in Hawley (who was meant to be Jenny's replacement had Goffman gotten his way). This switcharoo would've work if SH were a CW show during Dawn Ostroff tenture as network president but not FOX where they need shows that aren't Idol or Gordon Ramsey.
Good showrunners don't give the finger to their audience and keep doing things that aren't working and Mark Goffman did just that as if he wanted to get unemployed.
In all honesty, Hawley is a writer's avatar; a Gary Stu or in the case of his creator in writer Raven Metzner having an interview about his scripts- a Mysogyny Stu
ReplyDeleteNo, changing from being a fun, twisty, action show into a soap opera mess where ALL the characters do more talking out of their feelings than actually defeating evil is what is killing Sleepy Hollow.
ReplyDeleteYes, oh my I still have nightmares that the Weeping Lady is going to drown me. One thing Sleepy Hollow always gets right is a great villain, and one that looks very creative too. I love the mythology of the show and the costuming of some of their villains. I thought the Vetala in the last episode was pretty well done too, looked very creepy.
ReplyDelete100% agree. Writers and show runners on social media listening to the most vocal fans is what is killing TV. No one tells their story anymore so all stories become the same - an emoangsty mess and/or shipping extravangaza. TV would get a whole lot better if all story-creating personnel get off social media.
ReplyDeleteI was providing context and why some fans may have got the impression that she is partly responsible for the awful writing for her character. Added to that is her having spoken out in the past about her satisfaction with the writing for her character and her story arc, and you see why some people feel as if she was back-pedalling and passing the buck.
ReplyDeleteBwah! It sure feels like it. Katrina became the new Laurel early in season 1 and then the backlash really started in season 2.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah... Hope it's not ally hate mail.
ReplyDeleteStill no excuse for personal attacks on an actress.
ReplyDeletePeople need to grow the hell up. It's just a tv show. sheesh, some people really need to get out of the house occasionally.
Fandom can be a scary place. People who do not go online about TV are always shocked when I discuss how much vitriol there is about certain characters. The Sleepy Hollow fandom has gone way overboard, attacking the actress on social media until she had to send out a message explaining that the writers construct the characters, not her. It's atrocious how group hate can descend.
ReplyDelete