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POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - The Executioner's Song?

18 Feb 2015

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159 comments:

  1. jane18 February 2015 at 03:04

    That
    was really great. Timothy Omundson was amazing. Dean was so strong and yet so scared. Sam and Cas together at the end broke my
    heart. I can’t imagine where we will go
    from here. The only thing that kept me
    from voting amazing was Rowena. I really wish they had cast a better
    actress. She is really bad. I hate that
    we have to wait in the 18th. I love this show.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Toni18 February 2015 at 03:04

    I loved this episode. The scene between Cain and Dean, and ultimately the fight, was probably my favorite scene of the season.
    My biggest issue was the complete emasculation of Crowley in the end. He is the King of Hell and they're allowing him to be manipulated by this red-haired witch. I don't like it. He's not naive and they're making him a fool for this squeaking mother.

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  3. Ambar Moreno Candelas18 February 2015 at 03:13

    AWESOME EPISODE!!! EPIC!! :OOOOO Cain really scared me... And Timothy Omundson is so AMAZING as Cain!! This episode going to kill me. When he say "there is no cure" OMG! I can´t!
    Dean: “I gotta do what I got to do... I'll kill Cain.” GORGEOUS JENSEN AND MY JARED!!
    Dean VS Cain was great. I was very scared because I didn´t know what was going to happen. But the brothers hug :´) WINCHESTER BROTHERS FOREVER! The face of Sammy in the end... Cas....Dean's in trouble. I was killed... THIS IS THE BEST SHOW EVER!!! ♥

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  4. Darkchief11718 February 2015 at 03:14

    Whoever gave this episode the poor vote probably either doesn't love the show or missed most of it. This episode was incredible.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Katherine18 February 2015 at 03:17

    So...im bummed that cain was killed. Wish he would have stayed longer but anyway Dean is probably gonna suffer with the mark a while longer and im not okay with it. My heart breaks for the boys. And now i have to wait a month for the next episode ughhh.

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  6. Katherine18 February 2015 at 03:19

    I actually thought cain was going to kill dean at that moment idk why then he would be a demon again but glad that didn't happen

    ReplyDelete
  7. Amanda Stauffer18 February 2015 at 03:20

    i knew dean was a direct decsendent of Cain seeing how Sam wasn't on his list he i a decsendent of Abel! i cryed at the end between Cain and Dean,

    ReplyDelete
  8. BoxManLocke18 February 2015 at 03:21

    I assume the vast majority of people will love this episode and I get it. For the first time in a long time I felt like the writer in charge of this episode, Robert Berens, actually understood what makes SPN really epic, and the result was that incredibly intense confrontation between Cain and Dean. Nowadays you'd think a decent fight scene in SPN is something that has to be saved up for one episode per season, but it should happend much more regurlarly.
    Unfortunately for me though, since they killed Abaddon I lost all interest in the MoC storyline, and Rowena is the worst idea SPN had since season 6 and the Campbells.
    Still, I did not care, but they managed to keep me entertained for a large part of the episode. Now if only all the writers had the same gift...

    ReplyDelete
  9. chris68418 February 2015 at 03:24

    How does that work? Sam and Dean have the same parents.

    ReplyDelete
  10. MythAl18 February 2015 at 03:28

    Now this MoC storyline is getting interesting. Now I have the sense of urgency about it. I was right when I thought it would lead to Dean killing Sam and this opens up a lot of elements that can be explored if the writers make justice to it. Bummed about Cain being killed, but what I found funny is that the killing blow was not showed, just Dean doing it. Maybe it's an indication that Cain comes back. Nice twist by the way with Cain leading Dean to get the blade for him.

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  11. chris68418 February 2015 at 03:31

    I'll be the first to say it. I liked it but was underwhelmed. I watched because they promised a plot twist, and I was curious what that might be. Instead we ended with the same story. Dean is struggling to contain a murderous urge to kill (primarily) his brother - Something I guessed at when we learned Dean under the mark blamed Sam for Mary's death and swung at him to kill him with a hammer. Now if they actually follow through with some of this, and have Dean kill Crowley and Cas, then they'll have my attention.

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  12. lala218 February 2015 at 03:41

    I can't even say I liked it. It was an okay episode.



    I still feel like there's been no buildup to the MOC and its impact on Dean. Dean has not been going on any murderous rampages that I've seen so all the concern about the Mark is just not working for me.


    And since it is the Mark of CAIN, was it really a surprise that Dean would be compelled to murder his brother?!?! Not really. As you said, I figured Dean wanted to kill his brother when he disappeared in the beginning of the season and only seemed gung ho to kill Sam and no one else. We learned nothing, IMO, in this episode, and we lost a good villain in Cain.

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  13. lala218 February 2015 at 03:43

    Or they had a different opinion than you did and thought the episode was bad? Just a thought.



    I voted "Okay."

    ReplyDelete
  14. MythAl18 February 2015 at 03:43

    You're right. The difference between then and now is that Demon Dean didn't hold back what he was feeling and wanted to do. The MoC was tapping into Dean's negative feelings about his brother. Good catch.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Ksana18 February 2015 at 03:49

    If we go by actual biblical story, here it is
    "Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over.”
    — from Genesis 4:15.Dean (presumably) killed Cain. He will be punished for theat. His soul now is truly dammed. Whatever Dean was before- now he is going to suffer big.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Taylor Madison Street18 February 2015 at 03:51

    Yeah, I'm wondering that too. If they have the same parents, then how is that possible? Although, I've only been watching Supernatural for about three months now, so maybe I'm missing something here.

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  17. chris68418 February 2015 at 03:52

    I was being kind. I voted "ok" in the poll. The status hasn't changed. The storyline is still Dean's internal struggle to stop himself from wanting to kill his brother, with no suggestion of adding any depth to the writing of Sam. Since the myth arc is still a glorified character arc, with no bigger consequences that might hint of other roles for other characters, Sam (especially) is left being a plot device again for the fifth consecutive season.

    ReplyDelete
  18. MythAl18 February 2015 at 03:54

    That's what I thought about this situation, hence the sense of urgency I got for this storyline. But my question is: are the writers really going to show us Dean more inclined to murder everything or it's going to be more of the same?

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  19. lala218 February 2015 at 03:57

    I'll be the second to say I thought this episode was just okay.



    In MY opinion, the writers have done a horrible job at setting up this MOC story. I know I'm supposed to feel the urgency, the need for Dean to get rid of this Mark, but I just don't. Dean does not appear to be on the brink of a murderous rampage so I'm left wondering what is the big deal. Even tonight's "revelation" that Dean will be compelled to murder Sam does not invoke any sense of urgency in me. I figured that was the case in the 3rd episode of the season when Demon!Dean seemed really intent on killing Sam. He didn't seem to care about killing anyone other than Sam so I figured the Mark was playing a role in that. I don't care if he is supposed to kill Sam. I wish we could see him fighting an urge to murder Sam. That would at least be interesting.



    The Crowley/Rowena scenes were horrible. I cannot stand Rowena. I do not like her interaction w/Crowley at all. I do not like her. I don't care about her character at all. She's made Crowley incredibly weak. I don't know what the writers are doing to him this year.



    Timothy O. was great as were his scenes w/Jensen The last 10 minutes or so were really good b/c of JA and TO. I think it was a mistake to kill off Cain so soon. He could have been a formidable enemy for the brothers. He's a good actor and has presence. He also presented a real threat. Oh well. This show continues to kill off good, interesting characters (i.e., Gadreel, Cain, Abbadon) and leaves us w/uninteresting ones (i.e., Rowena, Charlie, Kate).

    ReplyDelete
  20. lala218 February 2015 at 03:59

    But my question is: are the writers really going to show us Dean more
    inclined to murder everything or it's going to be more of the same?

    I should hope so! Something needs to happen to throw this arc into action. I'd love to see Dean fighting a murderous rage or going on a murderous rampage. He needs to do anything other than what he has been doing, which is nothing.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Katherine18 February 2015 at 04:00

    I know why do they do this? They kill off all the interesting ones!

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  22. chris68418 February 2015 at 04:04

    I may be misremembering, but I think the line was that they were decendents of Cain and Abel (they didn't say which one), and the rest is just fan speculation. The show gets vague when trying to pull off fuzzy logic. Fans do the rest of the work in trying to rationalize it.

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  23. Robanah18 February 2015 at 04:05

    Did anyone else feel bad for Crowley at the end there????

    ReplyDelete
  24. lala218 February 2015 at 04:06

    I was being kind. I voted "ok" in the poll.


    Oh . . . okay :-)



    I've pretty much given up on Sam doing anything this year. The last shot was acted wonderfully by Jared, but that is all Sam will do this year: react to what happens around him. He's pretty useless this year. It is what it is.

    ReplyDelete
  25. chris68418 February 2015 at 04:09

    I gave up in season 7.

    ReplyDelete
  26. lala218 February 2015 at 04:10

    I don't know! It boggles my mind that Cain is gone, but we are left w/Rowena. Gadreel is dead but Metatron is still around. I love Curtis Armstrong but Metatron should be dead. It's ridiculous!

    ReplyDelete
  27. lala218 February 2015 at 04:13

    I think I held out hope until this year. Sam has never been more pointless and useless to me than he has been this year. Stripping him of the mytharc revealed the level of interest the writers have in Sam, which is none. Haha!

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  28. Katherine18 February 2015 at 04:16

    Exactly metaron is completely useless. Why is he not dead yet but cain is??

    ReplyDelete
  29. lala218 February 2015 at 04:23

    Who knows? I don't get Carver or his team. Why did he not write a reasonable story around Sam not looking for Dean in S8? Why is he trying to turn a 10-yr old 2-lead show into an ensemble? Why is Abbadon dead?



    I can only shake my head.

    ReplyDelete
  30. chris68418 February 2015 at 04:27

    Realizing that they were shelving any exploration of Sam's Hell experience, and how that had changed him, in favor of a 15 or so episode arc of Dean sobbing into his shot glass, did me in. The writing was on the wall then. When I heard we were switching show runners, I had some hope that things might change. And while I had a lot of issues with the Amelia storyline, I saw an attempt to write for Sam for the first time in a couple of years, but things reverted back and have only gotten worse.

    ReplyDelete
  31. D Fink18 February 2015 at 04:29

    Someone needs to kill Rowena asap. I don't care who does it, but she needs to die. Timothy was great, but I loved him better as King Dick in Galavant.

    ReplyDelete
  32. les18 February 2015 at 04:41

    I never get why they kill off the interesting characters that can hold a episode in keep the goofy ones. I hope Cain is not dead wishful thinking. In please keep the pacing going, don't stop the story you barely have as it is every time a MOTW episode happen.

    ReplyDelete
  33. ivan18 February 2015 at 04:46

    this fight was different in my eyes, it was like two friends fighting and one killed the other. It wasn't a full victory, Dean HATED doing it, you could see it in his eyes

    ReplyDelete
  34. lala218 February 2015 at 04:47

    Oh, yes, that was horrible! The infamous "hand rub." There was so much they could have done w/Sam's "hellucinations." It was tragic the potential that was lost in that story! HCW was such a wonderful episode. Even TGND was a good follow up. Too bad, the story was dropped and reduced to the occasional "hand rub."



    I can't say I saw any attempt to write for Sam in S8 though. To this day, I still have no idea why Sam thought Dean was dead. When S7 ended, he asked Crowley where Dean had gone, but Carver expected us to believe that w/in 5 minutes Sam just randomly decided Dean was dead?!?!!? And was Sam's blood actually being cleansed from the demon blood? I know he said he felt that way, but he was delusional at the time he said it, and it was never really confirmed.

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  35. ivan18 February 2015 at 04:48

    yeah immensely, how in the world is that possible? he's a demon, the FREAKING King of Hell and i feel sorry for him whoa

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  36. MythAl18 February 2015 at 04:51

    Exactly!!

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  37. chris68418 February 2015 at 04:53

    Don't get me wrong. I can go on and on about everything wrong with the first half of season 8, but the fact that someone made an effort to try to plot something out for Sam, as flawed as it was, was a lot more than had been done in a few years. Even Soulless Sam in the end was really only about its effect on Dean. Amelia was more about Sam.

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  38. MythAl18 February 2015 at 04:54

    Yeah. Omundson is awesome in Galavant.

    ReplyDelete
  39. lala218 February 2015 at 05:10

    I hear you. I wish I could be that generous. I positively HATED the first half of S8 and most of the rest of the season too. I esp. hated Sam's characterization in the first half though. He was just too OOC for me.

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  40. CyanaT18 February 2015 at 05:13

    I hope Galavant is renewed!

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  41. CyanaT18 February 2015 at 05:20

    I agree about Crowley/Rowena .... their scenes are ridiculous.
    There's a minute chance that Dean may have left Cain alive, We never saw Cain's dead body and we never saw the distinctive yellow-orange flash that's made when every demon dies, particularly a Knight killed by the First Blade.

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  42. Amanda Stauffer18 February 2015 at 05:26

    they have diffrent blood types Micheal said it runes in the blood all thenback to cain and abel!

    ReplyDelete
  43. Ksana18 February 2015 at 05:43

    That's my thoughts too about Cain. Comparing to Abaddon death with flash and all that visual effects they totally blacked out death of such a powerful demon as Cain. I wonder why.

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  44. SPN Fickle18 February 2015 at 06:53

    I think Sam was much more useless during the beginning of season eight... may I never be forced to watch the first half again! My sister wants to marathon it with me, but I can't face repeating any season post season seven. There are only a few episodes that I have watched more than once... I just don't feel "the brothers" like I used to... "Dean's in trouble" almost got me...

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  45. SPN Fickle18 February 2015 at 07:35

    I do not believe Cain said that Sam was not on his list. They are brothers with the same parents. If Dean is a descendant of Cain, Sam is a descendant of Cain. That is how ancestry works. If my parents give birth to me, I don't end up in the line of my uncle.

    My guess is that Cain didn't mention Sam because he knew that Castiel would care more about Dean... Or, this is the one I truly believe, he didn't mention Sam because Dean was destined to kill Sam because of the mark.

    ReplyDelete
  46. SPN Fickle18 February 2015 at 07:38

    Different blood types don't matter... It is who your parents are and who their parents are, etc.

    ReplyDelete
  47. sharonally18 February 2015 at 07:54

    True but then it must be remembered Sam is written to what the story needs not what the character himself might need. He will say or do something or something is done to him to fit the story going on around him, even in this episode , this season we have had a Sam fitting the current sl .Supernatural was killed off for me last season so brother moments do not get the cockle's of my heart warm and fuzzy. It is a shame as I once adored the relarionship.

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  48. jackson18 February 2015 at 08:03

    I gave it a poor vote. I love(d) the show and didn't miss any of the episode. Different strokes.

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  49. Kevin18 February 2015 at 08:45

    This is easily one of the best episodes of the season. 9/10 from me. Rowena is still completely annoying and it bringing down the quality of the overall season. Timothy Omundson did an incredible job as Cain. Fantastic stuff!

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  50. jackson18 February 2015 at 08:52

    Can't wait for the gripe review for this one.


    This episode only served to remind me why Supernatural was so good back in the day, and why unfortunately, it's unlikely it will ever reach that level again.


    A lot of what made this show amazing was that it had a great grasp of both it's mythology and it's story and character arcs. It wasn't just about having bad ass confrontations, each of these confrontations had scale. They went from fighting ghost and wendigos to literally getting their asses kicked by Demon's. Just when they got a very tenuous grasp on dealing with Demons, a much more powerful and zero f#$ks giving adversary in Angels appeared, and batted them around some more. Every fight was won by the skin of their teeth, despite Sam and Dean being the leads of the show and therefore pretty unkillable (mostly) every time they went up against a big bad there was real tension. Something or someone we cared about was always at stake.


    I can see a lot of people thought this showdown with Cain was amazing. But there was never a moment when I thought anything of real importance was at stake. Some 12 year old boy with a basketball? Nameless and faceless descendants of Cain? Please. Dean has killed Demon's, Angels, Eve, a (supposedly extremely powerful) Leviathan and gone up against Lucifer himself, and I'm supposed to doubt he can take on Cain? And now I'm supposed to be worried because he's going to be brooding over the fact that he might kill his brother? He wanted to kill his brother back in Season 4, and 5, probably for a few moments in 6, definitely for a few episodes in 8, and considered letting him die in Season 9. It's been DONE. We know he loves his brother, he doesn't want to hurt him, we got it.


    Look after Season 5, they kinda topped out on the big bads. Abaddon was fun, Metatron less so and the Cain thing is pretty preposterous if you get down to it. No one is going to be more threatening, or bad ass or dangerous than Lucifer. They nicely paralleled his story with Michael to Sam and Dean. They tied all their family and brotherly drama into the mythology of the show and connected that with supernatural and Christian lore. It was great, fantastic even. Trying to shoe horn in another Christian parallel at this point is just hamfisted and weak.


    "You know how we said Sam and Dean's struggle was similar to the one between Michael and Lucifer? Well wouldn't it be cool, if we just ignored that and instead did a 180 and said it was like Cain and Abel? And even better, let's make Cain a tortured soul who was forced into killing his brother and then half a season later forget about developing that possibly interesting story of regret and self sacrifice in favour of making him a genocidal maniac!"


    I've watched this show from the beginning, I've known these characters longer than some of my current friends. I know this show and it's stories pretty fluently. And despite that, I still think there is more story to tell. But this isn't it. This constant manufactured tension between the brothers, this rewriting the mythology and ignoring the character development of 10 seasons of television is really saddening to me.


    Obviously, ymmv.


    P.S What this show has done to the character of Crowley should be considered a crime.

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  51. Maria18 February 2015 at 10:23

    One word - UNDERWHELMING. and i can hear the collective gasps !! I feel this whole season (or longer) I've been waiting for something concrete to happen. Something to wow me like the days of old (read season 4-5). I honestly thought this season would be SPN's big comeback..but i donno..im not feeling it.


    I don't like nor care about Rowena the psycho mom-witch. I miss the old badass crowley to be honest. Every thing about Rowena pisses me off - from her accent to her eye-makeup.


    Crowley the king of hell.. really? he looks like a neutered pup. Rowena was right about one thing - he is the winchesters bitch.


    Cain - he just knelt down and waited for dean to kill him. yeah. ok. i have no words. i mean, even with one arm cut off - he has his demon powers... u know flinging people across the room and such. aarrghhh !


    Sam - "dean is in trouble".. ok i thought that was the only thing well executed in this episode.


    predictions: -- "it ends at the source" - the source of the mark is the act of cain killing abel. I think the mark can only be removed if dean kills sam (among other things). So this season Sam will die. Again.


    i was pretty excited to see Cain again..but... what a pathetic storyline and what a sad way to finish off cain.

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  52. chris68418 February 2015 at 11:46

    I don't think they need to, or should, keep upping the danger of the big bads. Tension can be built around something small and doesn't even have to be around physical danger, if the show can convince us that the stakes are real, that it's something the characters truly care about, and is diligent about consistently building on the conflict. The fact that they keep revisiting the same devices (brother x might die or brother y is going dark), even though they've shown their cards and revealed that they won't permanently kill either brother or truly turn one (especially Dean) bad is a big part of the problem. This is unless they plan to end the show next season and this is really the end.

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  53. Aline18 February 2015 at 12:39

    I was very underwhelmed with this episode. It was pretty pedestrian. Cain trying to kill off his descendants was an original touch but it reverted back to the same old, same old again. Dean wallows in self-pity and at some stage does an arm grab, Sam stands idly by (in past episodes when Dean would tell him he was a liability Sam would have said he was staying with his brother. Here he just agreed and stood outside the door while Dean fought Cain. Whatever happened to Sam being able to hold his own, and trusted enough to have Dean's back?) and strokes Dean's ego, the big bad is taken down very easily, and Dean wallows some more.

    For something that has been built up since the middle of last season, the fight between the Father of Murder and his protege was also underwhelming. It was like both Cain and Dean were on prozac, and fighting underwater. The serenity of the scene was only broken by Dean's 'Zena Warrior Princess Screech of impending victory'. This tendency, in recent seasons, to show Dean's big kills in painstakingly slow detail is getting ridiculous. It was the same with Abbadon and the slo mo fight with the wind machine.

    The scenes with Crowley and Rowena make me cringe, but Rowenas scenes have made me cringe since she joined the show. These demons and this version of hell is akin to something you'd find in a funfair. They're like street thugs fighting in a back room bar. Not exactly something to be afraid of.

    So, the destiny is, once again, that Dean will kill Sam. That's not exactly shocking and new, It was in play in season 2, season 4, season 5, season 6, season 7, season 9 and he's already tried it in season 10. What would make it new would be Dean actually killing Sam and at this stage I wouldn't exactly be adverse to the idea. Sam, along with Castiel and Crowley, is utterly surplus to requirements in Carver's 'Supernatural'. It might be nice for Dean to grant his brother the peace he has denied him for so long.

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  54. lala218 February 2015 at 12:56

    True. Sam is very much being written to fit the plot rather than the plot conforming to his character. That was never more obvious than in S8 when he uncharacteristically didn't look for his brother. I wouldn't have even had an issue w/that decision if Carver had bothered to actually tell a story behind it, but we couldn't even get a decent story - IMO - around Sam giving up on Dean or why he hated Benny so much. Ugh . . . S8 was awful.

    Like you, the broments aren't doing anything for me this year. I'm not sure why b/c I am a sucker for the broments. I hated Sacrifice except for the broment at the end of the episode. I liked Sam's "I lied" last year and Dean's "I'm proud of us." This year, I haven't been moved by anything.

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  55. lala218 February 2015 at 13:01

    Hmmm . . ..I didn't see him as useless in the first half of S8. I'm not sure why. Nothing was really going on at the time IIRC. So, it didn't feel like Sam was being left out of anything. Dean was back from Purgatory, but that was it. They were just tracking Kevin and doing cases, right?



    This year, however, there is a plot, and Sam does not appear to be a part of it all, IMO. Other than his contractual obligation, I'm not sure why Jared is even in most of these episodes. What is Sam contributing to anything? A big, fat nothing IMO. I honestly think nothing changes in the episode IF Sam wasn't present, which is sad. He doesn't even get inspirational speeches or heartfelt, quiet moments. He can't even angst about his brother's woes. He gets reaction shots, and that's it.

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  56. Shannon18 February 2015 at 13:22

    Eh, i didn't care for this episode. And Rowena needs to go...like forever. I really can't take her anymore. But she was right, Crowley disappointed me, he just came back with this sad puppy dog look on his face, then he silently begged his mommy to "not leave him" UGH! so over it. Get rid of her, and give me my demon back.

    ReplyDelete
  57. chris68418 February 2015 at 13:34

    There's no brother relationship without two fleshed out characters. If the role of one is nothing but automatic, unquestioning support, with no exploration of why that is, that strips the heart right out of the scenes.

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  58. Maria18 February 2015 at 13:46

    yeah I miss crowley the bad ass demon. Where the hell is he ? him being manipulated by him momy ! can't get over it. he's the king of hell for crying out loud. SPN - u need better writing and better story lines coz this is not cutting it !

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  59. Mel18 February 2015 at 13:53

    I was really looking forward to this episode because Timothy Omundson is amazing and I love him as Cain. I'm bummed because I didn't want him to be killed off so easily but it seems to me that he went on a killing spree just to get Dean to kill him. I felt horrible for Dean because he clearly did not want to be forced to murder Cain. He wanted answers and got nothing but more blood on his hands. I'm curious how they are going to fix this which is why I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.

    If I were to base my excitement about The Executioner's Song on the boys alone, it would have been excellent. Unfortunately, there's Rowena. I loathe her with a fiery passion. She's right up there with Metratron for me. Every time she comes on the screen I want to fast forward through her manipulative, condescending bullshit. I don't because I'm OCD and couldn't stand to miss a second of the show, but I certainly feel the desire to do so. I hate how she has manipulated Crowley and made him even more ineffective as the King of Hell. It's frustrating for me because I adore Crowley. After Dean passing the First Blade on to Cas, I'm sure that Rowena will get an even deeper hold on Crowley and I am sick to death of her.

    There are a couple things that I'm still curious about because they have not been addressed thus far this season. Where the frak is Crowley's son? Why hasn't it been mentioned? Were we just supposed to forget about his little journey via time travel? It's little things like that that frustrate the hell out of me. Also, are we just supposed to assume that Kevin and the rest of the trapped souls moved on to Heaven once the pearly gates were opened? It hasn't been mentioned and not all souls move on. For all we know, Kevin is getting his kicks as a ghost. I need resolution for these things and hope that we will get it before the end of the season. I'm tired of them bringing up certain scenarios and then dropping them. Inconsistency drives me batty.

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  60. Michele Klinger18 February 2015 at 14:02

    I was on the edge of my seat the entire episode. I have definitely gotten anxious watching Supernatural before, since it really is a show where you can never fully know what will happen next. This was different though. We all know what the mark can and will do to Dean, so who knew what would happen if he actually killed Cain. Jensen's bravery and fear in the episode crushed me and the ending broke my heart. Sam knows his brother isn't ok and who knows what'll happen now

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  61. ScottA18 February 2015 at 14:10

    I thought while Jensen was fantastic in his performance, it was Sam who had most of the key lines and although no action scenes for him, he was the highlight for me except for the fight scene.

    I still think they are going to have to cut Dean's arm off or go to Metatron for help with the MoC. There HAS to be something in the bunker they can use for an artificial (demon killing) arm!

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  62. ScottA18 February 2015 at 14:17

    I'm thinking Sam is the "hero" in this by finding a way to get rid of the mark. Maybe a spell that includes killing an angel? Sam killing Cas would be epic and looking back to Sam trying to kill Bobby to scar his vessel by committing patricide even though Bobby wasn't his blood father. Cas could be considered a brother using this logic.

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  63. ScottA18 February 2015 at 14:28

    I'm betting on him being the hero. He's either going to kill Cas as part of a spell or "compel" Metatron to help. Personally I like Dean killing his "brother" Cas like Sam trying to kill Bobby in S6. Unless they can find a way to transfer the mark to someone else who is worthy and kill them.

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  64. SPN Fickle18 February 2015 at 14:42

    I agree with you about Sam this season, but to me This season Sam feels like Sam. In season 8 it was a pod person that looked like Sam. There was so little exploration of why the character didn't look for Dean, didn't search for Kevin, didn't answer the freaking phone... I couldn't get into the show at all... On one hand we had Dean, Benny, and Castiel and character exploration galore... On the other hand we had Sam stopping in the middle of the action to let his mind wander to an irrelevant memory of practically nothing with NO explanation of ANY motivations.

    When Sam had the myth arc, Dean had the emotional arc... Example... all of that angst over Dad dying to save Dean and his worry over what dad told him. Through the years Dean always gets to talk it out with everyone... Gordon, Henricksen, Bobby, bar girl #3, etc. Sam might talk out his feelings with Ruby....but not "really"... She was a demon after all. This time Sam has had a couple of quick convos with Castiel... But look at the bonding time Dean had with Crowley, Cain, Metatron, and even Claire... Dean killed a man she felt was a father to her, he has trouble controlling his rage monster, but let's send him to talk to the vulnerable teen while Sam... said to be the sympathetic one... is not even considered for the task.

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  65. spnrules118 February 2015 at 14:46

    I completely agree with you. Finally an episode that we saw and felt what Sam was going through while watching what Dean had to do. One of my favorite scenes was in the kitchen. Jared did such an amazing job and the look on his face with those teary eyes just broke my heart. He is so worried for Dean and broken at the same time. I have been waiting awhile for them to give us this Sam....S3 Sam. Now I hope once the show returns they keep going and develop Sam's story more and we get to see what lengths Sam will go to in order to remove the MoC from Dean yet get emotional/angsty Sam in the process. Kudos to Jared!

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  66. spnrules118 February 2015 at 14:49

    Berens actually tweeted last night that "they both are descendants of Cain and it was subtly implied in Cain's line." He was then asked if Cain would have killed both Dean and Sam and his reply was, "In time." So I took that as Cain would have killed both Sam and Dean.

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  67. spnrules118 February 2015 at 14:51

    I am keeping the idea that Dean didn't actually kill Cain in the back of my mind.

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  68. Ambar Moreno Candelas18 February 2015 at 14:52

    Me too!!! I thought the same as you, I was so nervous with that scene! Glad that nothing of that has happened.

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  69. spnrules118 February 2015 at 14:56

    Don't forget Jensen said Sam's job this season is being supportive. God, that still gets me even now.

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  70. spnrules118 February 2015 at 14:58

    I am still really hoping for this to happen. I am one who wants it to be Sam and Sam alone who saves Dean. They owe him that much since S3 was cut short. Sam needs this save as much as Dean needs Sam to save him.

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  71. spnrules118 February 2015 at 15:00

    It would make sense but with these writers I doubt it.

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  72. SPN Fickle18 February 2015 at 15:00

    I believe Sam stayed out of the fight with Abaddon also. That is the way things go in Supernatural, Sam stays out of Deans fights and Dean barges his way into an apocalyptic fight between arch Angels so his brother doesn't have to die alone. If Sam didn't want to stand down, Dean would just knock him out anyway.

    As far as the fight with Cain goes, I agree with another poster on here. I think Cain "called" Dean to him by committing all of those murders just so that Dean could kill him. The only reason he fought it was that the blood lust took over. When Dean cut off his arm, it snapped Cain out of it and he just waited for the end. I think Cain was grateful...

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  73. JaredAWE18 February 2015 at 15:10

    I thought it awesome. But was anyone else irritated a bit that the prevailing accent in the Texas prison town was Canadian, eh?

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  74. spnrules118 February 2015 at 15:26

    I am dying for them to just let Sam have the emotional arc completely. I hope this is the start of it.

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  75. ScottA18 February 2015 at 15:50

    Couldn't Castiel be considered a brother as Bobby was considered a father in S6?

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  76. Mar Tim18 February 2015 at 15:52

    Great episode. I loved the scene between Dean and Cain, the things Cain spoke to Dean. I hope that Crowley did not decide to go after the brothers because his bitch witch mother. I'd hate to see him be killed.

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  77. Maria18 February 2015 at 17:33

    well they do consider him family. they are like bros...

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  78. chris68418 February 2015 at 17:58

    OMG, you're evil. Can you imagine how the fandom would explode if Sam killed Cas? I suspect Sam will come through the solution in the end, but it still doesn't change the fact that right now his role is plot device (an object like the Impala that Dean cares about) that serves to motivate Dean in certain decisions rather than a fleshed out character. If they're writing a story for Sam with an arc and a point of view, related to saving Dean, they're sure taking their time in starting it.

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  79. Ross18 February 2015 at 18:08

    Incredible! It reminded me why Supernatural is my favourite show!

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  80. Ross18 February 2015 at 18:12

    I see Cas as more of a cousin, or a weird Uncle haha.

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  81. Sean18 February 2015 at 19:08

    This then raises the question as to why Dean even wants Sam hunting with him. He doesn't trust Sam to get the job done when it's Sams fight and he considers him a liability (and/or knocks him out) when it's Dean's fight so why does Dean want to hunt with Sam at all?

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  82. Shannon18 February 2015 at 19:19

    Mmmhmm. I hated that scene with a passion. He didn't even say anything!!! He just took it!!!

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  83. lala218 February 2015 at 19:29

    True, but I have a feeling he's dead b/c he was an interesting character, and all the interesting characters are murdered. Haha!

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  84. lala218 February 2015 at 19:34

    Sam will be crucified if he kills Castiel thought. I wouldn't put it past Carver to throw Sam under the bus like that though.

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  85. Audrey18 February 2015 at 19:53

    I had such low expectations for this episode, fearing e repeat of the very boring "the things we left behind" but I am happy I was wrong. I loved it. So good to have the show back. Loved the fight between Dean and Cain, the prison scenes, but most of all the brothers scenes were epic. Bonus we even got Sam POV. Amazing
    The only thing I disliked is Rowena. It's not really the character but the way she is overplayed. Annoying and I can't enjoy it.

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  86. chriscross18 February 2015 at 20:49

    I don't think Cain is dead and what's going on with Dean?? Loved that we weren't spoon fed the plot for once. Spectacular episode. Jensen and Timothy were crackling with chemistry. Can we have more episodes like this?

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  87. spnmonster18 February 2015 at 23:54

    This ep was about manipulation top to bottom -- Rowena manipulating Crowley, which he realizes, Dean manipulating Crowley, Cain manipulating Castiel and Dean, Dean manipulating Sam and Cas maybe. We'll see.

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  88. spnmonster18 February 2015 at 23:56

    Exactly. Sam and Dean's genetics are as similar as two peoples can be.

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  89. BoxManLocke19 February 2015 at 00:18

    Sorry what ?
    When the hell did we ever explore what Sam was going through ? He's just worried. As he's been all freaking season. Nothing more.

    Seriously, just thinking that the writers could write this and think to themselves that they're writing Sam the way they should makes me sick.

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  90. jackson19 February 2015 at 01:39

    "I don't think they need to, or should, keep upping the danger of the big bads."

    I agree. I really want them to stop trying to do this, its futile and not very entertaining. I actually wish these last few seasons (hopefully the show is winding down) had been about them dealing with the consequences of some of the choices they made over the first 8 seasons re: Heaven, Hell, Eve, purgatory, the veil, prophets, the MOL, Hunter network, etc.

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  91. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 01:42

    Don't you remember the hand rub in 8.09/Hunteri Heroici? Sam was still doubting his sanity while with Amelia. The writers just did a terrible job of telling his story.

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  92. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 01:44

    Yeah, but it became too much about Amelia and not about Sam. What happened to Sam in the months before Amelia? Dean and a lot of fans still think that Sam just hit a dog and hooked up with a girl. Grrr. Horrible story telling.

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  93. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 01:46

    I admit that I loved the moment when Dean collapsed into Sam's arms after killing Cain. That was a bit of a turn around for them. Usually Dean is the strong one supporting Sam. Dean showing weakness and accepting such support from Sam was great imo.

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  94. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 01:48

    Really? I don't feel like I need an explanation of why Sam is being supportive of Dean. Sam is being what he needed in season four. That seems intuitive to me.

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  95. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 01:51

    True. Castiel has promised to kill Dean if he goes dark, and I can imagine Sam stopping at nothing to prevent that. Unfortunately, you're right. The hate level against Sam would be astronomical.

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  96. lala219 February 2015 at 01:52

    It would be INSANE! Sam continues to be hated for his actions in S4. I simply can't imagine the hate he'd receive if he killed Castiel!

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  97. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 01:54

    But we have to keep in mind that the writers aren't following Biblical text here any more than they have in the past. It's only a sprinboard for their interpretation of the story.

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  98. lala219 February 2015 at 01:57

    I don't mind him being supportive but does he have to be so passive and inactive in his support of Dean?!?! Can we get some inspirational speeches, some worried conversations w/Cas, some action!?!?!

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  99. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 02:00

    Trying to shoe horn in another Christian parallel at this point is just hamfisted and weak.
    Great point. I'm really tired of the Christian mythology when there are so many other directions they could go. They need to end the angel war and move on.

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  100. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 02:02

    Hm, I don't see how Dean killing Sam would remove the Mark. Cain said that killing Sam would be the point that Dean actually became like Cain himself. I'm still wondering if they are angling at the Lucifer connection. He was the source. The idea makes me roll my eyes so hard I got a headache.

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  101. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 02:05

    I have a feeling that Dean's lies and Rowena's taunts will bring out the worst in Crowley. I don't think he's fooled by her manipulations though.

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  102. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 02:06

    I'm wondering if Rowena will somehow get together with Crowley's son Gavin and the two of them work against him.

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  103. lala219 February 2015 at 02:18

    I definitely agree that S10 Sam is much more like the Sam we have come to know since S1 except I still think Sam would be a bit more vocal and active than he has been. His role has been very quiet this year, and I don't care for it. He's practically non-existent, and as you've pointed out, when Sam had the mytharc, Dean was never sidelined the way Sam has been this year.

    I just want to feel like Sam has a purpose on the show. Right now, I do not feel that way.

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  104. lala219 February 2015 at 02:20

    I do not! I barely remember that episode at all. I just remember some guy dreaming in cartoons or something like that. Haha! Was that the episode where Sam would look at random objects (i.e., lightbulb, radiator, ice cube tray, tv, radio) and have FBs of Amelia? Ugh . . . so stupid!

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  105. lala219 February 2015 at 02:21

    Oh, I forgot about that. That was a good moment!

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  106. chris68419 February 2015 at 02:23

    I think you misunderstood me. What I was trying to say is that supportive moments that characters had to work for after tension (even if that's just differing points of view) feel so much richer than similar scenes with flatter characters. I loved the nice moment of Sam and Dean in the earlier seasons because both characters were more realistic and the scenes seemed more natural.

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  107. lala219 February 2015 at 02:25

    I couldn't agree more w/you. Both characters needs to be fleshed out and developed. Why is Sam so unwavering in his support? Why is he so unwilling to make waves or question some of Dean's choices like tagging along w/Dark!Charlie or bringing a huge knife w/him on a hunt? I'd like to know why he is just sitting back and doing nothing.

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  108. chris68419 February 2015 at 02:27

    I can't disagree with that. I just saw more effort to try to round out Sam. I'm not sure what happened and how the story turned into a love triangle, rather than exploration of Sam, which I think was what was originally intended. Maybe it was network influence, seeing as triangles seem to be the CW's thing. But I'm just speculating here.

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  109. lala219 February 2015 at 02:38

    Sadly, I don't remember Sam doing much last night. And I'm not being sarcastic. I honestly can't remember what he did last night or any significant lines he had. Honestly, the show isn't keeping my attn as it used to so I admit that I might have missed somethign.

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  110. João Paulo19 February 2015 at 02:43

    The best episode of the season so far, very strong and very good. Cain is amazing villain, the writers waste a great character like this one so early, I hope the season finale top this episode. Cain is the most powerful villain since Abandon. Rowena is other great villain, she is remarkable, I love her talk with Crowley like that, he definitely turn to terrible king this season.

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  111. lala219 February 2015 at 02:51

    Oh, thank you! I know I haven't been paying as much attn to the show as I have in the past, but I didn't think I missed some pivotal Sam moment last night.

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  112. chris68419 February 2015 at 03:06

    That is a really good idea of the stories being about consequences.

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  113. Shannon19 February 2015 at 03:30

    Haha, we'll let's see. I hope so. If that'll bring his spine back to HIS back and out of his ass I'm all for it.

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  114. ScottA19 February 2015 at 03:39

    True, although I think it would generate a heck of a lot more interest in what's going on. Plus there will always be a way for Sam to redeem himself. Like the S8 finale when Sam confessed he wouldn't let Dean down.

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  115. ScottA19 February 2015 at 03:42

    Evil would draw viewers and pique interest in the show that they haven't has since S2.

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  116. BoxManLocke19 February 2015 at 04:18

    Must have missed the oh-so-subtle Sam POV somehow

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  117. lala219 February 2015 at 04:40

    Well, I cannot disagree w/you there. Many of Sam's arcs have generated debate, discussion, and controversy, and that's largely b/c the writers are willing to take risks w/his character . . . too many risks sometimes, but it does make for entertaining viewing!

    I don't know if Sam will ever be "redeemed" in the eyes of some fans, but those fans are determined to hate him until the end of the show so there's no pleasing them.

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  118. Misty Pebworth19 February 2015 at 06:19

    Wow..just..wow. This episode was exceptional. I don't even..so many feels! So many haunting moments, and Sam's last line sent a chill down my spine. Cain was an amazing, /amazing/ character, I loved every minute that he was talking. I'm going to rewatch this episode, for sure.

    The first half of this season was very meh for me, with some ok episodes but not much to get excited about. The second half had been outstanding. I've enjoyed every single episode since returning from hellatus.

    If you haven't been enjoying these episodes... Especially this one...then maybe it's time you stopped watching the show. I havrnt enjoyed Spn so much since the kripke days.

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  119. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 10:50

    Yes, I see. What bothers me is that in the early seasons, no matter how bad the conflict between the boys, you could see how that bothered them. It hurt. Since Carver came on board, I haven't seen that -- especially in season eight. They were just angry. The pain of the conflict didn't seem to be there. Some interaction this season just seems flat. I agree.

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  120. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 10:52

    He tried disagreeing with Dean late in S9, and Dean's reaction was to push back. I think he realizes how fruitless it would be. It was with him in S4 as well. The harder Dean pushed, the more resistant Sam was.

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  121. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 10:54

    that's the one ep I would recommend for insight into what happened when Dean died. The scenes with Amelia's father show that Sam too was suffering from PTSD. He was a mess, and her dad saw that immediately. He was an objective view of Sam -- at first antagonistic but then sympathetic too. He said they were living in a dreamworld, and Sam later gives a speech to the old guy about the dangers of living in a dreamworld.

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  122. chris68419 February 2015 at 10:57

    "If you haven't been enjoying these episodes... Especially this one...then maybe it's time you stopped watching the show. I havent enjoyed Spn so much since the kripke days."


    For the record, I've started skipping episodes that don't appeal to me, but the problem with this statement is the assumption that everyone should share your taste in storylines or else they shouldn't be watching.


    Personally, the highlights since Carver took over were late season 8, when for the first time in years we got a reference to Sam's demon blood and they seemed to be starting some sort of resolution arc for that long dropped thread, and the second episode this season when demon Dean started feeling evil. I recognize that not everyone shares the same taste though. It's every person's individual choice whether they want to watch the show or not, and whether they want to talk about it afterward on tv sites.


    For me, although I have a lot of issues with the show, there are three things that are dealbreakers on whether I watch or not. First is that there be some kind of consistent plot that builds tension throughout the season. Second is that there's balance and continual development in the writing for Sam AND Dean. To me a character's story isn't a story without insight into the character's point of view and how the story affects him. The third is that Sam AND Dean are central participants in the main plot. This storyline doesn't meet any of these - the first because all of the threats of Dean becoming a real danger have appeared to be empty threats up until this point, and the second and third because Sam has never been more sidelined.


    This episode itself was good for what it was trying to do. My issues are more the season and the bigger arc, but those issues detracted from my enjoyment of the episode.

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  123. lala219 February 2015 at 12:03

    Maybe you should just enjoy the episode and not worry about those of us who disliked it? Just a suggestion.

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  124. lala219 February 2015 at 12:06

    Very good point!

    But would Castiel/Crowley still be good and interesting in the hands of good, imaginative and creative writers? Possibly.

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  125. lala219 February 2015 at 12:09

    I still think it makes for boring viewing when Sam never expresses an opinion about anything. He just agrees w/everything. That's not very entertaining to me.

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  126. spnmonster19 February 2015 at 13:00

    I don't disagree, but I don't think that Dean is the only one he can have disagreements with. They've spent a lot of time establishing a friendship between Sam and Cas since "First Born' that had been nominal previously. I'd like to think that the conflict will come there more than with Dean. The brother conflict of S8-9 about wore me out. Nothing enjoyable about that.

    That being said, disagreements don't have to lead to overblown conflict plotlines as it did in those seasons.

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  127. ScottA19 February 2015 at 13:33

    Physically, he didn't. His dialogue was spot on. He was the glue that bonded the scenes. I would bet it was his idea for the illusion spell.

    He just seemed like a genius to me.

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  128. Mel19 February 2015 at 13:41

    I could see that happening if she knows he's alive. It irritates me that it hasn't even been mentioned.

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  129. SPN Fickle19 February 2015 at 15:28

    We didn't explore it, but we did get to see it for a few seconds. That is more than we get most episodes. We hear him start to talk to Castiel and Dean comes in and interrupts. He is talking to Dean about how he can fight it and a phone call interrupts. This time the episode ended on one emotional line from him... no interruptions. That seldom happens.

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  130. Audrey19 February 2015 at 17:10

    Well, I meant when he said at the end that Dean is in trouble, when it expressed that using a 12 years old as bait sucked. I know what you're thinking but hey it's 2 secondes more than all the episodes of season 8 and 9 reunited. I call it an improvement. Even more incredible is that the scenes weren't cut like it's been lately. So yes, it's a big bonus for me.

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  131. lala219 February 2015 at 22:17

    If I want to waste my time, why do you care? You seemed just as concerned w/me and my opinion as you claim I am w/you and yours.



    I responded b/c I hate when people try to advise others on what to watch, post, etc. Why does anyone care? I don't care if you loved the episode. That's great. Why do you care if I hated it? Why you do care if I want to comment on why I disliked it?

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  132. Lubbeelou19 February 2015 at 22:32

    I will be so happy if Crawleys mother has actually gone. The character is so boring. I have no idea why she's there. Can't he see she just lies to get what she wants? ... Having said that I have enjoyed the last couple of episodes. Whoever has been writing these episodes should stay as the writer!!

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  133. Lubbeelou19 February 2015 at 22:33

    Of course, by Crawley I meant Crowley. Obviously been watching too much Downton Abbey!!

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  134. Misty Pebworth19 February 2015 at 22:37

    Lmao, I'm not going to have this discussion with you. I never commented on what -you- said. I didn't reply to -your- post, I didn't even read it, if you have one. You're the one taking what I said as a personal affront, and I'm not responsible for, nor do I care about, what you choose to get upset about in some random person's posts that you chose to read. You say you hate when people advice other people on what to watch and ask why anyone cares, when you're the one replying to my posts telling me what I should or shouldn't do and acting like I insulted you personally.

    Keep posting what you want to, I'll keep posting what I want to. If I want to comment on people's constant negativity and yet illogically still watching a show they hate, I will. You don't have to read it.

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  135. lala219 February 2015 at 22:40

    You're replying to me. If you don't want to have a discussion w/me, why are you replying? LOL!

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  136. lala219 February 2015 at 22:41

    I can't say I got much from Sam's dialogue but I'm glad you enjoyed it!

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  137. lala219 February 2015 at 22:42

    Sam doesn't disagree w/anyone this year. I don't know. For me, he's mostly just there. He's not really offering much, but that's just my take on it.

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  138. Misty Pebworth19 February 2015 at 22:53

    Perhaps I didn't word it exactly right. It was late. My peeve has been those that continue to watch, and completely trash and bash the show every single episode since who knows when. My point remains that, if they hate the show, and have for so long, maybe they shouldn't be watching.

    Towards some of the other points you made, I love the brothers equally. I still don't see, however, how some view Sam as sidelined. He has been a constant presence, and involved in everything. We've seen how he's being effected by things, and what he's doing. He may not directly have a main arc, but I've seen that alternate through the seasons anyway. I realize not everyone shares my opinion there, and that's fine. I don't always like the way things happen on the show either, either with the writing or the plot. I also don't bother responding to their posts, chiding them for their opinions. I'm not attacking specific people, I'm stating my disgruntlement with the concept of someone watching a show that they dislike, just to bash it.

    Plus, I was speaking in the general excitement of 'omg! This episode was so awesome you're crazy if you didn't love it!!' I wasn't saying 'anyone who doesn't agree with me should crawl under a rock and die, cause you suck'

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  139. kerinda19 February 2015 at 23:10

    you know what got me thinking OH God Sam is going too do something so Fucked up too save Dean at the end of the season that's what I am thinking anyway.

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  140. spnrules120 February 2015 at 00:01

    This is the first time this season I really felt Sam's pain from watching Dean go into fight with Cain to the end scene in the kitchen. Sam said a lot in those words about "Dean being in trouble." I can see he is breaking. There definitely needs to be more exploration in what is going on with Sam. I am one who has felt Sam has been shoved in a corner since the second half of S9 and not loving what they have done with Sam so far in S10. I thought by this point we would be exploring Sam much more. Hopefully when the show returns, the upcoming episodes give us more Sam and let us see what he is going through trying to save Dean.


    We are being told Sam is being "supportive" in S10. Even JA commented Sam's job this season is to be "supportive." I never cared for Sam being referred to in this manor because we should have had way more exploration of Sam and his story in S10 and defintely at this point but unfortunately we haven't. I doubt the writers are looking at my comment and thinking they are doing a great job because I will say they aren't writing Sam well at all. They haven't done so in quite a long time. I am giving credit to Jared for taking what little material they give him and turning it into a brilliant performance. Again, If the writers are really looking at my comment they will see I said they aren't writing Sam well. Kudos to Jared and not the writers.

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  141. spnrules120 February 2015 at 00:06

    I felt Jared did a great job with Sam's scenes. Sam's most pivotal moment for me is when he said that "Dean is in trouble." He is scared for Dean and at this point has no clue how to save Dean. I didn't have to even question it. Now what I want is for the writers to really write the emotional arc for Sam. There is no guarantee we will get it but I hope we don.

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  142. spnrules120 February 2015 at 00:07

    I never even thought of who came up for the idea for the illusion spell but you could be right. Again, I agree with you on what Sam said and how it came across.

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  143. spnrules120 February 2015 at 00:08

    I keep thinking that as well. What will Sam do in the end to save Dean and it all stemmed from that look on Sam's face at the end of the episode.

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  144. spnrules120 February 2015 at 00:12

    I thought last night was a good start but I do agree they haven't let him say much. I was surprised he was in the barn with Cain and he was allowed to speak to him for even a second. He was there to hold his brother and be his pillar of strength which I thought was an important moment. Personally, I don't mind he isn't speaking to Cas. I just keep hoping it gets better from here on out.

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  145. spnrules120 February 2015 at 00:13

    I have to say they are really dragging out giving Sam the emotional arc. Time to jump start his story and let it go until the end of the season.

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  146. BoxManLocke20 February 2015 at 01:17

    You're right, Sam is still present. I'm not really complaining about screen time personally. The thing is, Sam is nothing more than wallpaper this season. He's there because the writers can't remove him, and they never attempt to try any kind of character development or POV.
    I suspect that is because when he has actually been used these last 4-5 years, it's only been as a plot device. I mean really, can anyone say who Sam is anymore ? And I don't mean what he represents to other characters.

    The truth is, it's been so long since we've had serious insight into what makes Sam tick that there's barely a character there anymore. That's why the last time the writers attempted to give him a personal arc, it was mind-numbingly shallow (Amelia). That's also why they can justify regularly throwing him under the bus (not looking for Dean post season 7) ; how can you destroy a character that doesn't exist ?

    The writers would have to pretty build him from scratch to make him equal to Dean again, and I suppose it's too much work for them. Or they don't give a shit because not enough people care.

    What really sucks is that I could handle lousy storylines like the MoC and crappy characters like Rowena, and always find enjoyment in the episodes, if the brothers were treated equally. But they really aren't.

    Sorry for the rant. I wouldn't mind having an article about Sam here in STV to vent some more :p

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  147. Misty Pebworth20 February 2015 at 01:54

    The Amelia plot was incredibly shallow, yes! It was annoying, and even Jared said Sam would have looked for his brother. It was out of character. But I get where the writers were coming from, with Sam's childhood and early years wanting to go to college and leave hunting behind. But they destroyed the meaning behind that, and the character. Sam would neverr abandon his family, he just wanted freedom. So yeah, everything eith Amelia was completely mismanaged.

    We did have something of a Sam arc though when he was trying to close the gates of hell. Overall, I really do feel they've developed Sam, and I like him more this season then I have in a while. It's all point of view, I guess. I will agree though that Sam hasn't been central this season. His overall arc is trying to save Dean right now, and it wouldn't make a lot of sense for him not to be concerned with that. It would have been stupid of them to completely drop the moc arc so quickly, after they spent so long building it up. They've done that before to the detriment of the show. Godstiel for instance.

    Sam could also have something terribly wrong with him and need Dean to save him, but then people complain that dean's always saving Sam and Sam's dumbed down. I can see how it's hard for the writers to win. If it's Sam saving Dean, then people complain that Dean gets the cool story line and Sam is just a plot device to rescue him.

    I do wish one thing above all. For Rowena to disappear. I've always liked Crowley, but with all the hell and Rowena crap, I'm seriously bored with it. The writers have no concept of what hell should be like, or heaven, and whenever they write for either...it's incredibly dull. I'd rather have Dean and Sam most of the time, with Castiel in every few episodes if they figure out something interesting for him to do.

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  148. chris68420 February 2015 at 12:52

    Thanks for explaining. I've been on both sides of this - annoyed at the negativity around a show I was loving and going through the break-up processes with a show that I've had an active role in the community of - so I actually do understand. I've never seen anything positive come out of, "if you don't like, don't watch" comments though. people who are unhappy with a show know they don't have to watch. They're just working through the breakup.

    As for the Sam part, I expect we're not going to come to any kind if agreement on this. My response is that being present isn't the same thing as being a protagonist. In season 6 when Sam was soulless, Dean was very much the protagonist as the whole arc was seen through his eyes. Sam's condition, the introduction to the Cambells, the mystery of what Cas was up to, battling Eve, were all Dean's problems to fix. I would have been thrilled with a similar treatment this year in reverse for Sam. I'm going to respond more along theses lines to your other comment to BoxManLocke.

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  149. chris68420 February 2015 at 13:04

    [i]"I wouldn't mind having an article about Sam here in STV to vent some more."[/i]


    Funny timing. You may get your wish. ;-)

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  150. chris68420 February 2015 at 13:12

    (i) "We did have something of a Sam arc though when he was trying to close the gates of hell." (/i)

    Personally I thought the trials were a little silly, and they were also jammed into episodes that that 2-3 other major stories going on during them, so they were rushed. There were a couple of good Sam POV episodes though, but right when it seemed like it was starting to lead somewhere interesting - the effects of the trial was interacting with Sam's demon blood - the storyline was cut short in favor of Sam being used as an an angel vessel. I hear a lot of griping that Dean's stories are always dropped, but everything started with Sam post season 5 has been prematurely dropped too (almost immediately after it's introduced), which is where a lot of the frustration is coming from now.

    (i)"Sam could also have something terribly wrong with him and need Dean to save him, but then people complain that dean's always saving Sam and Sam's dumbed down. I can see how it's hard for the writers to win. If it's Sam saving Dean, then people complain that Dean gets the cool story line and Sam is just a plot device to rescue him." (/i)

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  151. ALLSHOWZ20 February 2015 at 13:32

    Cas i got scared for when he met with Cain, cos i love Cas in all the episodes.. Dean was strong for this fight

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  152. kerinda21 February 2015 at 05:00

    that is what makes me worry it really nothing too worry about anyway the writers will mess up anyway with this.

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  153. spnrules121 February 2015 at 22:59

    God i really hope not. They have so much potential with what they should be doing with Sam's story from this point on.

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  154. ScottA21 February 2015 at 23:47

    That's what makes this site so enjoyable for me. We can disagree on something and still have a civil conversation about it. Plus you've got me thinking now so I'll probably re-watch it tomorrow. I always appreciate your opinions. They make me analyze the show more and that's what I like to do.

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  155. kerinda22 February 2015 at 02:31

    Hey they been messing up with Sam storyline for the last 3 years why start now too get it right? HA!

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  156. lala222 February 2015 at 02:44

    Oh, well, thank you :-)



    I enjoy reading your comments as well. Most seem to love this episode so I would re-watch it too if I could to see what I missed, but I no longer record the episodes so I can't watch it again.


    All I can say is there was nothing memorable to me about Sam's dialogue or even Dean's to be honest w/you. When I think back on the episode, I remember Rowena being generally annoying, the big Dean/Cain fight at the end, Crowley feeling double-crossed and then his mother confronting him, and Sam's worried/sad expression at the end of the episode. I honestly don't recall what happened in the middle so I guess it didn't make an impression on me.



    Lately, I feel like I've been forgetting the episodes as soon as they end! Haha!

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  157. Laural22 February 2015 at 14:25

    whats wrong with red hair?!

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  158. Toni22 February 2015 at 14:28

    Haha, nothing. Why would you think I mean there is something wrong with it?

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  159. Laural28 February 2015 at 12:30

    like how you talked about the red haired witch, thought u meant it in an offensive way. sorry xD

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