We're back to the days of Finch & Reese with a side of Fusco. Root is going to be sitting on the sidelines until Team Machine is in grave danger to make her return and Shaw will be preoccupied until she becomes as I've said a number of times before the team's most formidable opponent...My question now becomes when will Greer meet his eventual downfall and will it be before Shaw comes back into play or when she comes back into play? I like that Dani Silva may join forces with the team in the future - her character was very similar to that of our team members as Fusco pointed out sorta just throwing the rule book out the window...I'm going to miss having Root central to the story and episodes for a while but I give it til the finale for her to make a hell of an entrance back in the nick of time to kick some ass as per usual. I've been spot on lately and Samaritan just txted me: "Stop it. Now." lol Every week you wonder how they can meet the quota after they set the bar so high and I must say they never come up short entertaining us, keeping us on the edge of our seats, and making us care about these characters
Welcome to Westfield Storybrooke White Pine Bay Maple + The-what-could-of-been Season 3 of Revolution! And I was also reminded of Breaking Bad, The Blacklist (The Stew Maker), and a dash of Alias (Nadia Santos) with the reemergence of Silva!
Pretty fun (suspenseful) and emotional episode! Glad I was right about Shaw being alive, but interesting revaluation with Greer being by her bedside---makes me wonder if he directly ties into her family's past with the cold war (would seem fitting with the Razgover episode ala Alias Project Christmas + Russian Cold War-esque...Gosh, could he be her dad????!), Let alone it was very Ben Linus chatting with Kate-like :p
Amy Acker was really good in this one again. She almost made me cry at the end when she was begging the machine to giver her answer!
Looking forward to next week's though with Blair Brown and Paige Turco! XD
Yes, Root's "God" let her down , hard. She had purpose and now what direction does she take. She said goodbye to Harold - does that mean she said goodbye to the machine as well ? And those interviews the show members gave about Shaw probably not returning turned out to be, as I suspected at the time, just muddying the waters.
.My question now becomes when will Greer meet his eventual downfall and will it be before Shaw comes back into play or when she comes back into play? I like that Dani Silva may join forces with the team in the future
I'm thinking Shaw's family and Greer's past are directly related. I totally agree about Silva, she clearly is a reflection of 'young Shaw' and I think she'll be a nice reoccurring character while the Shaw story line gets bread crumbed! :)
Wow. The POI creative team prove yet again that they are television's best.
This episode was just as good as any of those in the previous trilogy despite not having anywhere near the same level of intensity. It's very rare for any series to be able to come down from a high without losing quality.
Samaritan endeavoring to teach itself about humans is a fascinating, and masterful creative idea. What we will begin to see now is the difference in approaches to similar scenarios from The Machine - which was taught by Harold - and Samaritan - which is teaching itself. This is going to be fantastic to watch.
And seeing Shaw in that bed was a beautiful sight. But she is now in parallel with the deceased Kara Stanton, who spent 2 years recovering from the Ordos incident in China, under Greer's watch. So Shaw may return, but she will be working for Decima just like Mark Snow and Stanton did. This also pretty much secures Greer's wellbeing until then at least because he will have to be involved right up to then. Reese, Root and Finch need to take out Greer if they want Shaw back.
Good episode & glad they gave the shaw storyline some kinda closure but do have to wonder when she will be back as id guess with that ending sarah has told them she would like to come back. Kinda sad that root will probable take a back seat probable for the next 3/4 episodes until we close in on the end game of the season as i really like root/acker
awesome.bfre watching i was concerned that poi has a tenency to slow things up a bit after a good trilogy/finale .but boy i was wrong totally. it felt like the continuation of the trilogy. and YAY shaw is alive. but what the future holds for her is very frightening.(remember kara stanton)
and the team machine is losing this cyber war . i wonder what team machine is gonna do to give samaritan a major loss in this war.
Snow didn't directly work for Decima, but he carried out Decima tasks under Stanton's orders. I wouldn't say is obvious/cliche/repetitive though - we hardly saw anything of what Stanton went through, and perhaps more importantly we didn't see anything of the Chinese side of the Decima operation. That's something I do want to see
Definitely not the ending I have hoped for :( But fits perfectly into the tradition that the creative team can always come up with an unexpected twist.
"My dear Sameen" - so not Greer and so not how Shaw would call herself, so I second the theory that there can be more connection between them.
Regarding Root - I've been waiting since S3 the moment when she feels herself betrayed or disillusioned about the Machine but I expected it as some kind of jealousy when/if the Machine let others to communicate with her too. I wonder what that goodbye means, but I think we probably won't see her for a while either. She is in a very similar state now than Reese had been after Carter's death - I wonder if we will see him trying to help her to find her ground again.
Loved seeing Shaw again. The brain transponders/implants are definitely going to come into play with her, which should be interesting.
On the episode itself, I felt it was really strong on dealing with loss, but I did feel like it stumbled a bit when it came to the Maple storyline. Some really intriguing thematic ideas, but I don't think it thoroughly engaged with any of them. Still well written and acted, though.
A review: http://polarbearstv.com/2015/02/04/person-of-interest-m-i-a-review-4x13/
I see where you're coming from but I think where PoI was slightly let down this episode was its pacing. I found it incredibly jarring going back and forth from Maple-Manhattan and vice-versa in the first 15 minutes. It wasn't as seamless as PoI is so adept at doing. I think that's where your complaint of the ideas not being engaging enough is where it falls under. They cut away just as you were really getting into either the Manhattan or Maple plot but they did a better job of this within the last 2/3 of the episode.
I believe the ideas will be expanded on later this season but this episode really had to do a lot of things: consolidate Root-Reese pairing, close the Shaw storyline, re-introduce Reese-Finch pairing, re-introduce Silva, establish Fusco/Silva pairing and link Samaritan to the A storyline. I'm sure there are others but this seemed like a set-up episode more than anything else. I believe that the awesome monologues and back-and-forths about Samaritan/Machine will come later this season.
I enjoyed the episode! The pace was a little bit slower than previous weeks but that ending sure did leave my heart racing.
The power that Samaritan has is incredible and what it did tonight was no exception. Taking a faulty little town called Maple and turning it into its own "ant farm" by improving it into excellence and then "shaking" things up to see how humanity reacts to it is scary as hell. The power of an AI is unlike any other.
The storyline of Fusco and Silva teaming up to take down a perpetrator was nice change to the show! Always happy to see Fusco get some more screen time and this is just what I needed. Also, The Machine telling Root and Finch to "STOP" looking for Shaw was understandable considering that for right now, they have reached so many dead ends that it's useless to keep on searching for Shaw. I wonder if Root will take some time away from Team Machine for a little bit considering she walked away from Finch saying goodbye. Sure seems like it.
The reveal that Shaw is indeed alive brought a huge smile to my face! Not so much that she's now under Greer's control. Hmmm, I wonder what he plans to do with her now. I just know it's not gonna be good for Team Machine. "If this is the afterlife, it sucks" Ohhhh, never change Sameen XD
I'll go with "Great". I enjoyed both storylines and there were a lot of good lines and moments. Didn't think we'd actually get to see an awake Shaw by the episode's end (the way this scene felt was so odd and creepy.. do they know each other? Or.. what is happening?! Are the writer giving Sarah her wish to go to the dark side? o_o) but my feeling about The Machine is probably true: She knows. So she told Root to stop - either to save her and continue the fight against Samaritan (she can't go on like that) OR because Shaw is now a double agent of sorts. Yes, this is a stretch, but it might be T.M. has or will make contact with her asap. This would also fit the picture that Shaw made it from preventing the bombing to the stock exchange sublevel 6 in like less than 15 minutes. Did she get instructions? (The Machine still couldn't predict if she'd arrive in time through the ducts, if it was the case) Or was it just... an optimistic time estimation by the writers? I imagined the Machine would at some point just say that she is dead instead of "STOP" but.. I guess it works, too. ;) Of course, my improvised theory hasn't been thought through.
The episode was a good bridge between the trilogy and a calmer part between mid-season and end-season. Root is probably not going to show up for a few episodes, so this gives them the chance to work a few number cases, push The Brotherhood storyline (not the biggest fan, I have to admit), return some old friends and give more Reese/Finch/Fusco focus. Might be John gets a bit more of a character development journey himself, now that there's plenty of screen time. Maybe they'll even do some Samaritan plot but with Root gone, this'll probably not go so well. Sometimes it was indeed (as someone said before) a bit strange to jump too often between Maple and Brookyln. This ended up in a weird pacing in the first 20 minutes but it worked well after.
I think The Brotherhood storyline can still be but has yet to be redeemed. I am also not a big fan of the Brotherhood but I think it's because we've seen Dominic be a one-note baddie than be a layered villain. It seems like they're deliberating focusing on the Samaritan storyline for now rather than fleshing out the Dominic character. I believe that we'll get to Dominic's backstory later on this season while in the midst of the power struggle between Elias and The Brotherhood.
I am a huge fan of the Finch/Reese pairing so to see Root disappear if only for a little while is welcome relief. I have nothing against Root but this is one dynamic that I have greatly missed. I just hope that the COTW's tie in well with the overall Samaritan arc.
I don't really see how Root would work numbers anyway, so I already had a strong feeling she'd return later this season after mid-season is over. :) She might return a bit earlier than expected and help out with numbers, it is something rather new after all. I enjoy Reese/Finch a lot as well. Actually, I'm a big fan of every pairing so I guess it's a great chance to let both of them reconnect a bit more the next few episodes. Combined with the chance to give Reese a bit more development, I think this could actually be very good. :) I said it in another topic, but if they use the "little things" the right way, I expect the next few episodes to be great.
Usually I'm more interested in what the main characters are doing but as of this moment, I am really intrigued by what the recurring characters will do and how they will influence the plot than the main cast.
Team Machine's survival mode won't last much longer and Samaritan won't be hidden for much longer either. It'll be really fascinating to see what happens then and what Team Machine will do against Samaritan.
For example, I can't imagine the rest of the season without some sort of betrayal [possibly on either side]. I'm curious to see who it will be and how that will affect Samaritan's/Machine's plans. I have a few suspects in mind but as with any good TV show, PoI is keeping its cards close to its vest which makes me incredibly excited for the rest of the season.
Wow what an episode ...Again!!! Loved how Finch was trying to get through to Root by calling her Samantha. Although I don't know why he thought it would help since it's clearly not the name she likes to be called. I couldn't take this whole Schrödinger's Cat talk seriously. Reminded me too much of Big Bang Theory and I had to laugh through the whole scene.
After they returned from Maple I feared that there won't be a conclusion agian. Team Machine sort of has one though. The machine told them to stop looking. The question is now, if Root is satisfied by that or is she turning against the machine. My guess is she needs time for herself the next one or two episodes and then comes back.
I have to say I didn't expect to see Shaw (actually Sarah) in this episode. I wonder what Greer plans with her. The writers left everything open which is a good thing. They now can do everything with her charater once she returns. Whatever fits the current storyline when she returns. I was a bit worried when Sarah said in the post 4.11 interviews that when Shaw returns she would not be the one we all know. But I think they left it pretty much open.
"*edit* I forgot to mention.. while I think the combination of number case & Shaw plot wasn't bad, maybe it would've worked better if 4.13 had been focussed entirely on the weird town of Maple? Imagine what else must be going on over there... and then they could've done the number case in the next episode and given that a twist & more "flesh" as well?"
A kind of have a few theories going ^^ and I'm thinking we will see more Maples with more and more scary ideas and maybe we'll get one that solely focuses on them all getting stuck there!
I think Greer may tie into Shaw's family past (the cold war, the car accident), may even be her father (This has to do with a potential death juxtaposition/parallel, Alias references such as Shaw centric episode with Russian title and very much like "Project Christmas"-->children spies + that episode featured Simmons/HR and we again have a corrupted cop in Maple, and Control also has a daughter potential juxtaposition, along with Silva being like a reflection of young Shaw, but also is similar looking/role to the past of Alias character Nadia Santos...
But also the whole town of Maple made me think of several Bad Robot and Friends works from Fringe's Westfield (and that episode in which they mention Project Elephant) to Bates Motel's White Pine Bay, but also The Boy used as Samaritan's mouth piece/avatar is a direct reference to what the nanites did in Revolution with Aaron Pittman----the final scene of that series is the nanites taking the worst of the worst characters to a theme park in Iowa in which to begin "mind control" experiments on them to discover how humans behave....
Most of the people in Maple were basically both scared into and/or rewarded into that situation, but they were not as complacent or delightfully engaged as the Samaritan boy has been...So I'm wondering if the idea behind these towns is not just to track/monitor people's behavior, but to eventually connect to them all wirelessly through sensory implants and Shaw could become one of Samaritan's "androids" about to join The Wild Westworld theme park ;D
Awesome episode. But i don't get how they didn't see that human experiment from the moment they turned up. This was interesting and as i expected i doesn't look good.
As they can't be sure that Shaw is dead, I wonder what they will do with the underground HQ? Shaw new both the place and the way to enter into, so staying there would be a huge risk. (Or careless writing.) I hope the writers find a solution to this.
IMHO, there are no ties between Greer and Shaw. Greer is a slave to Samaritan. The only reason that Shaw is alive is because Samaritan wanted her to be alive. For what purpose? The neural transplants immediately come to mind. But then again, was Shaw really shot in the head to necessitate a craniotomy? I don't think so. The other woman was the one who got shot in the head. Not Shaw. Samaritan is now acting like a scientist experimenting on human society using humans as guinea pigs. It sure has something planned for Shaw.
For the first time in some time, it feels weird for me to enter a POI discussion thread so late. But real life kept me from watching the episode early.
Awesome episode with an epic ending. "SHE'S ALIVE. SHE'S ALIVE" *dances a little, all the while wiping away a happy tear tor two*
I refuse to believe that Greer saved Shaw because of past ties etc. No way!! Greer is a slave to Samaritan's commands. It was definitely Samaritan which ordered him (and Martine) to spare Shaw Why did Samaritan let Shaw live? What is going to happen to her? Will Samaritan regard her as a guinea pig for its social experiments. This episode showed us that it was manipulating an entire town and town folk like lab rats. The possibilities of what Samaritan may do with Shaw makes me even more sincerely hope with all my heart that Sarah Shahi returns to the show in the near future.
Favorite scenes:
John and Root going increasingly dark, impatient and merciless as they interrogated the Thompson woman. The moment Root picked up that drill and afterwards when she drilled into that woman's hand (John didn't stop her) was chilling and amazing at the same time.
Root and Finch's final scene in front of that camera. Root's anguish as to why the Machine wouldn't help them was poignant. When the phone rang, I let out a yell of joy thinking that the Machine had decided to help them only to be crushed moments later when it told them to stop.
Loved the return of Dani Silva and her working together with Fusco to bring down a killer was interesting and tense enough to keep me engrossed even as my mind kept turning towards R&R.
Finally, the story line of how Samaritan is learning by experimenting on towns and people is chilling to say the least.
You could be right, but IMO there is something more personal happening. When I think of why Greer and Shaw are still alive and how they finally gave us some insight into Greer's past in the 3 episode arc leading to this, it dawns on me it's because there is still more story to tell and from that alone, I don't think it's coincidence they put them together.
The Alias references are also abundant. In Alias the main character finds out her mother, Irina Derevko, was really a Russian spy who married her CIA agnet father and had her in order to obtain information. But part of the series also follows people who follow the works and prophecies of a 14th century prophet/inventor named Milo Rambaldi, in which Sydney and her sister are directed connected to. Sydney's mom, who Sydney thought died in a "car crash", ends up still being alive and working to help fulfill Rambaldi's work. So a lot the series is about Sydney reconciling her mother's existence and viewpoint. Even though it's clear her mother cared for her, she still ends up choosing Rambaldi over her daughter!
Both SS and AA are former Alias actresses---but Shaw in particular has episodes/scenes that directly reference/juxtapose her role that work--such as when she helped the child spy in "Razgover" (<---a Russian word), as Sydney was apart of a US military experiment that programmed children how to become spies later in life titled, Project Christmas--it also made it so she couldn't be altered by mind control!!!
The fact that we don't really understand why Shaw's family was specifically targeted and that we now know Greer was apart of the IMF during The Cold War and was tasked to play "double agent" with the Russians and he let someone go he wasn't suppose to., because he cared/sentimental (another theme of Alias), and that he also cares so deeply for his spiritual vision that is Decima and Samaritan, is just so similar to Irina Derevko (even though Sydney was her daughter, she wasn't against putting her "at risk") and her Rambaldi obsession...whether he's responsible for her father's death or he is her father, or he is the one that smuggled them out of Iran---I'll be very surprised if he revived her to torture or change for no real reason, other than persecution or to take out team machine. Greer is a Zealot, but he also has very good self control, so I don't see him doing this out of spite.
They also made a point to reveal that Control has a daughter in this "arc" (giving us are first episode Centrics for both Control and Greer), which might hint at a parallel of juxtaposition later on with a reveal of someone else being related to someone else.
Did it seem to anyone else that they had altered Silva's character's personality slightly from her first appearance ? When she was working with John I do not remember her being as closed off as she was with the Fusco ( no offense, Fusco, I love you). Was this to make her more like a Shaw type Team Machine operative temporarily? Impending motherhood agrees with Shahi - she was a great welcome sight in that last scene , even though it raised different kinds of concerns. Mercy me, I had almost forgotten about the charming Brotherhood and its ruthless leader Dominick, who still has unfinished business with Elias, who I hope has some ferrety tricks up his sleeve to fight the brilliant newcomer. I wonder what progress Dominick has made into figuring out the existence of the machines as he was zeroing in when we last saw him, no dummy that. I know a lot of people like the Samaritan storyline but the end of it cannot come fast enough for me but there are still a lot of plotlines to go before this season finishes.
That is why I think there might be a deeper connection between Greer and Shaw. It seems pointless to just retread Stanton, since Shaw is clearly a much more important character. It's not that I don't think she couldn't become a Stanton or even a Martine for her own sake, or even a next step in "programming" (because in this case, it would probably require mind control--I don't think she could just be emotionally motivated to suddenly go down an anti-team-machine path, unless she "pretends"), but more over it feels right to add some character complexity to Greer that there could be a conflict of interest between Greer's and/or Samaritan's belief system and Shaw's life...Unless, the point is to prove to the audience that because of Shaw's "unique" behavior, can trick Samaritan and Greer's flashback was pointless, because he's a black and white villain after all...
As someone who has never watched Alias it was a fascinating read.Thanks. :)
Whatever the case may be, Shaw's story line has so much potential that it has left me praying that Sarah Shahi comes back in some capacity or the other in the near future. It's like this - an epic story is being written/shown and she is a huge part of it. She is part of the puzzle/mosaic that is being completed by Nolan and Plageman. If the story ends without her returning, then IMHO, it's going to leave the mosaic forever incomplete and therefore tarnished.
I think, it's quite a good episode in general. But I again and again can not understand, why Root is still so blindly loyal to the Machine. It feels like it's time for her to revise attitude to the both AI-s and finally unite with Finch on the deepest level in getting back to genuine humanity (providing him not with some "targeted" support, but continuous and fundamental). Even facing the loss of her best friend she would never forget the predominant goal - to preserve the Mankind against global threats. So, her "good bye, Harold" at the end doesn't look compelling or even natural. She is suddenly behaving herself a bit immature, but in all previous episodes she has proven her extreme maturity so many times, that this a bit "hysterical" approach doesn't match her general pattern at all. The authors should not diminish her character so - it's not following from anywhere.
I'm feel pretty certain she'll be back, otherwise they would of just wrote her off. I'm sure it's just a way for SS to have her baby! But you're exactly right, without having a conclusion and/or a powerful return, it would tarnish the series, and she's a character that I agree has much more potential and story to add. :)
I'm hoping that, if they do pursue the "brainwashing Shaw into a Samaritan operative" storyline, they'll have Shaw fake it and work as a double agent for Team Machine. I that would be really fun to watch, and it might ease the cliche of it all.
Just saw the episode a couple hours ago, it was another fantastic episode. It wasn't as intense as the trilogy, but it still retained the high quality.
I am glad we got a definitive answer as to whether Shaw was dead or alive, and I am really glad she is alive. If she doesn't return to the team for whatever reason I could see Dani being a replacement for her. She reminded me a lot of Shaw.
Samaritan aspiring to teach itself about human nature, and the ways in which people work was captivating. I applaud the writers for their innovative and creative idea of teaching Samaritan about how humans operate. It will be intriguing to see what happens next regarding it, now that Samaritan decided to discontinue with the town of Maple.
For all those people who complain about POI having become a war of the machines and saying they miss the simplicity of season 1: Reese and Finch are on their own again, with two policemen two back them up, just like in the old days. Are you happy now? Can you quit complaining?
It would make a good plotline but the Samaritan guys are not stupid. I don't think they would buy Shaw faking it. I don't think they would believe Shaw saying "Skrew Team Machine, I work for you now".
Yeah, you might be right on that one. I think she could figure out a way to do it though. I mostly just don't want to see her working against Team Machine so I'm holding out hope hahaha.
I really would like to see it thoug. It's just that I can't think of anything that could make her work for Team Samaritan even though it's fake. Fortunately it's the writers who have to figure that out and not me LOL. I guess they think of something that is not contrived.
After last week’s huge brain teaser of an episode, we get another of similar vein but with more resolution: namely an answer to what the hell happened to Shaw? (she is alive for one which actually makes the situation worse as she is probably gonna be used for some pretty nefarious stuff). - The intriguing plot of the hour was the ant farm/Maple and Samaritain’s use of the town as a study device on humans…eek! (Glad I’m living in a city that’s financially stable and doesn’t rely too much on one particular industry). Compare Samaritain’s brutal education to the Machine’ more peaceful apprenticeship with Harold on the intricacies of human behavior and we have the crux of this whole big shebang. - The Fusco/Silvia case was well done, giving some much needed focus on Fusco & more intriguingly on Siliva who might continue to be in the picture given that Root looks temporarily out of the picture. - Worth repeating: Amy Acker/Root has been the MVP for much of the past 5 episodes with the occasional golden moment from Harold. All in all another excellent episode to cap what has been an outstanding Season 4.
I was really surprised they showed us Shaw at the end being alive. From all the interviews I had read, I thought for sure we wouldn't get a definitive answer, hinting at a death but leaving the door open to a possible return a few seasons down the road, if POI is lucky enough to get there, which is looking unlikely now anyway. So it really was a great reveal for me!
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What a roller coaster of an episode. I'm so happy about the ending!
ReplyDeleteA crazy episode but the ending made me happy
ReplyDeleteWhy torture? Just turn her to your side, and then set her loose. She's an asset to Greer now.
ReplyDeleteWe're back to the days of Finch & Reese with a side of Fusco. Root is going to be sitting on the sidelines until Team Machine is in grave danger to make her return and Shaw will be preoccupied until she becomes as I've said a number of times before the team's most formidable opponent...My question now becomes when will Greer meet his eventual downfall and will it be before Shaw comes back into play or when she comes back into play? I like that Dani Silva may join forces with the team in the future - her character was very similar to that of our team members as Fusco pointed out sorta just throwing the rule book out the window...I'm going to miss having Root central to the story and episodes for a while but I give it til the finale for her to make a hell of an entrance back in the nick of time to kick some ass as per usual. I've been spot on lately and Samaritan just txted me: "Stop it. Now." lol Every week you wonder how they can meet the quota after they set the bar so high and I must say they never come up short entertaining us, keeping us on the edge of our seats, and making us care about these characters
ReplyDeleteGood luck,Greer, turning her to your side. Unless as DarthLocke4 suggests, that there are past ties
ReplyDeleteWelcome to Westfield Storybrooke White Pine Bay Maple + The-what-could-of-been Season 3 of Revolution! And I was also reminded of Breaking Bad, The Blacklist (The Stew Maker), and a dash of Alias (Nadia Santos) with the reemergence of Silva!
ReplyDeletePretty fun (suspenseful) and emotional episode! Glad I was right about Shaw being alive, but interesting revaluation with Greer being by her bedside---makes me wonder if he directly ties into her family's past with the cold war (would seem fitting with the Razgover episode ala Alias Project Christmas + Russian Cold War-esque...Gosh, could he be her dad????!), Let alone it was very Ben Linus chatting with Kate-like :p
Amy Acker was really good in this one again. She almost made me cry at the end when she was begging the machine to giver her answer!
Looking forward to next week's though with Blair Brown and Paige Turco! XD
Yes, Root's "God" let her down , hard. She had purpose and now what direction does she take. She said goodbye to Harold - does that mean she said goodbye to the machine as well ? And those interviews the show members gave about Shaw probably not returning turned out to be, as I suspected at the time, just muddying the waters.
ReplyDelete.My question now becomes when will Greer meet his eventual downfall and will it be before Shaw comes back into play or when she comes back into play? I like that Dani Silva may join forces with the team in the future
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking Shaw's family and Greer's past are directly related. I totally agree about Silva, she clearly is a reflection of 'young Shaw' and I think she'll be a nice reoccurring character while the Shaw story line gets bread crumbed! :)
Wow. The POI creative team prove yet again that they are television's best.
ReplyDeleteThis episode was just as good as any of those in the previous trilogy despite not having anywhere near the same level of intensity. It's very rare for any series to be able to come down from a high without losing quality.
Samaritan endeavoring to teach itself about humans is a fascinating, and masterful creative idea. What we will begin to see now is the difference in approaches to similar scenarios from The Machine - which was taught by Harold - and Samaritan - which is teaching itself. This is going to be fantastic to watch.
And seeing Shaw in that bed was a beautiful sight. But she is now in parallel with the deceased Kara Stanton, who spent 2 years recovering from the Ordos incident in China, under Greer's watch. So Shaw may return, but she will be working for Decima just like Mark Snow and Stanton did. This also pretty much secures Greer's wellbeing until then at least because he will have to be involved right up to then. Reese, Root and Finch need to take out Greer if they want Shaw back.
I loved how their investigation wrecked Samaritan's plans in a little town called Maple.
ReplyDeleteGood episode & glad they gave the shaw storyline some kinda closure but do have to wonder when she will be back as id guess with that ending sarah has told them she would like to come back. Kinda sad that root will probable take a back seat probable for the next 3/4 episodes until we close in on the end game of the season as i really like root/acker
ReplyDeleteawesome.bfre watching i was concerned that poi has a tenency to slow things up a bit after a good trilogy/finale .but boy i was wrong totally.
ReplyDeleteit felt like the continuation of the trilogy.
and YAY shaw is alive.
but what the future holds for her is very frightening.(remember kara stanton)
and the team machine is losing this cyber war .
i wonder what team machine is gonna do to give samaritan a major loss in this war.
Damn PoI and its awesome cliffhangers. 6th episode in a row where I went 'omg'.
ReplyDeleteSnow never worked for Decima and I doubt that they would have Shaw go the same way as Stanton. Too obvious, cliché and repetitive.
ReplyDeleteSnow didn't directly work for Decima, but he carried out Decima tasks under Stanton's orders. I wouldn't say is obvious/cliche/repetitive though - we hardly saw anything of what Stanton went through, and perhaps more importantly we didn't see anything of the Chinese side of the Decima operation. That's something I do want to see
ReplyDeleteDefinitely not the ending I have hoped for :( But fits perfectly into the tradition that the creative team can always come up with an unexpected twist.
ReplyDelete"My dear Sameen" - so not Greer and so not how Shaw would call herself, so I second the theory that there can be more connection between them.
Regarding Root - I've been waiting since S3 the moment when she feels herself betrayed or disillusioned about the Machine but I expected it as some kind of jealousy when/if the Machine let others to communicate with her too. I wonder what that goodbye means, but I think we probably won't see her for a while either. She is in a very similar state now than Reese had been after Carter's death - I wonder if we will see him trying to help her to find her ground again.
Loved seeing Shaw again. The brain transponders/implants are definitely going to come into play with her, which should be interesting.
ReplyDeleteOn the episode itself, I felt it was really strong on dealing with loss, but I did feel like it stumbled a bit when it came to the Maple storyline. Some really intriguing thematic ideas, but I don't think it thoroughly engaged with any of them. Still well written and acted, though.
A review: http://polarbearstv.com/2015/02/04/person-of-interest-m-i-a-review-4x13/
I see where you're coming from but I think where PoI was slightly let down this episode was its pacing. I found it incredibly jarring going back and forth from Maple-Manhattan and vice-versa in the first 15 minutes. It wasn't as seamless as PoI is so adept at doing. I think that's where your complaint of the ideas not being engaging enough is where it falls under. They cut away just as you were really getting into either the Manhattan or Maple plot but they did a better job of this within the last 2/3 of the episode.
ReplyDeleteI believe the ideas will be expanded on later this season but this episode really had to do a lot of things: consolidate Root-Reese pairing, close the Shaw storyline, re-introduce Reese-Finch pairing, re-introduce Silva, establish Fusco/Silva pairing and link Samaritan to the A storyline. I'm sure there are others but this seemed like a set-up episode more than anything else. I believe that the awesome monologues and back-and-forths about Samaritan/Machine will come later this season.
I enjoyed the episode! The pace was a little bit slower than previous weeks but that ending sure did leave my heart racing.
ReplyDeleteThe power that Samaritan has is incredible and what it did tonight was no exception. Taking a faulty little town called Maple and turning it into its own "ant farm" by improving it into excellence and then "shaking" things up to see how humanity reacts to it is scary as hell. The power of an AI is unlike any other.
The storyline of Fusco and Silva teaming up to take down a perpetrator was nice change to the show! Always happy to see Fusco get some more screen time and this is just what I needed. Also, The Machine telling Root and Finch to "STOP" looking for Shaw was understandable considering that for right now, they have reached so many dead ends that it's useless to keep on searching for Shaw. I wonder if Root will take some time away from Team Machine for a little bit considering she walked away from Finch saying goodbye. Sure seems like it.
The reveal that Shaw is indeed alive brought a huge smile to my face! Not so much that she's now under Greer's control. Hmmm, I wonder what he plans to do with her now. I just know it's not gonna be good for Team Machine. "If this is the afterlife, it sucks" Ohhhh, never change Sameen XD
I'll go with "Great". I enjoyed both storylines and there were a lot of good lines and moments. Didn't think we'd actually get to see an awake Shaw by the episode's end (the way this scene felt was so odd and creepy.. do they know each other? Or.. what is happening?! Are the writer giving Sarah her wish to go to the dark side? o_o) but my feeling about The Machine is probably true: She knows. So she told Root to stop - either to save her and continue the fight against Samaritan (she can't go on like that) OR because Shaw is now a double agent of sorts. Yes, this is a stretch, but it might be T.M. has or will make contact with her asap.
ReplyDeleteThis would also fit the picture that Shaw made it from preventing the bombing to the stock exchange sublevel 6 in like less than 15 minutes. Did she get instructions? (The Machine still couldn't predict if she'd arrive in time through the ducts, if it was the case) Or was it just... an optimistic time estimation by the writers?
I imagined the Machine would at some point just say that she is dead instead of "STOP" but.. I guess it works, too. ;)
Of course, my improvised theory hasn't been thought through.
The episode was a good bridge between the trilogy and a calmer part between mid-season and end-season. Root is probably not going to show up for a few episodes, so this gives them the chance to work a few number cases, push The Brotherhood storyline (not the biggest fan, I have to admit), return some old friends and give more Reese/Finch/Fusco focus. Might be John gets a bit more of a character development journey himself, now that there's plenty of screen time. Maybe they'll even do some Samaritan plot but with Root gone, this'll probably not go so well.
Sometimes it was indeed (as someone said before) a bit strange to jump too often between Maple and Brookyln. This ended up in a weird pacing in the first 20 minutes but it worked well after.
I think The Brotherhood storyline can still be but has yet to be redeemed. I am also not a big fan of the Brotherhood but I think it's because we've seen Dominic be a one-note baddie than be a layered villain. It seems like they're deliberating focusing on the Samaritan storyline for now rather than fleshing out the Dominic character. I believe that we'll get to Dominic's backstory later on this season while in the midst of the power struggle between Elias and The Brotherhood.
ReplyDeleteI am a huge fan of the Finch/Reese pairing so to see Root disappear if only for a little while is welcome relief. I have nothing against Root but this is one dynamic that I have greatly missed. I just hope that the COTW's tie in well with the overall Samaritan arc.
I don't really see how Root would work numbers anyway, so I already had a strong feeling she'd return later this season after mid-season is over. :) She might return a bit earlier than expected and help out with numbers, it is something rather new after all.
ReplyDeleteI enjoy Reese/Finch a lot as well. Actually, I'm a big fan of every pairing so I guess it's a great chance to let both of them reconnect a bit more the next few episodes.
Combined with the chance to give Reese a bit more development, I think this could actually be very good. :) I said it in another topic, but if they use the "little things" the right way, I expect the next few episodes to be great.
Usually I'm more interested in what the main characters are doing but as of this moment, I am really intrigued by what the recurring characters will do and how they will influence the plot than the main cast.
ReplyDeleteTeam Machine's survival mode won't last much longer and Samaritan won't be hidden for much longer either. It'll be really fascinating to see what happens then and what Team Machine will do against Samaritan.
For example, I can't imagine the rest of the season without some sort of betrayal [possibly on either side]. I'm curious to see who it will be and how that will affect Samaritan's/Machine's plans. I have a few suspects in mind but as with any good TV show, PoI is keeping its cards close to its vest which makes me incredibly excited for the rest of the season.
Wow what an episode ...Again!!!
ReplyDeleteLoved how Finch was trying to get through to Root by calling her Samantha. Although I don't know why he thought it would help since it's clearly not the name she likes to be called.
I couldn't take this whole Schrödinger's Cat talk seriously. Reminded me too much of Big Bang Theory and I had to laugh through the whole scene.
After they returned from Maple I feared that there won't be a conclusion agian. Team Machine sort of has one though. The machine told them to stop looking. The question is now, if Root is satisfied by that or is she turning against the machine. My guess is she needs time for herself the next one or two episodes and then comes back.
I have to say I didn't expect to see Shaw (actually Sarah) in this episode. I wonder what Greer plans with her. The writers left everything open which is a good thing. They now can do everything with her charater once she returns. Whatever fits the current storyline when she returns. I was a bit worried when Sarah said in the post 4.11 interviews that when Shaw returns she would not be the one we all know. But I think they left it pretty much open.
"*edit* I forgot to mention.. while I think the combination of number case & Shaw plot wasn't bad, maybe it would've worked better if 4.13 had been focussed entirely on the weird town of Maple? Imagine what else must be going on over there... and then they could've done the number case in the next episode and given that a twist & more "flesh" as well?"
ReplyDeleteA kind of have a few theories going ^^ and I'm thinking we will see more Maples with more and more scary ideas and maybe we'll get one that solely focuses on them all getting stuck there!
I think Greer may tie into Shaw's family past (the cold war, the car accident), may even be her father (This has to do with a potential death juxtaposition/parallel, Alias references such as Shaw centric episode with Russian title and very much like "Project Christmas"-->children spies + that episode featured Simmons/HR and we again have a corrupted cop in Maple, and Control also has a daughter potential juxtaposition, along with Silva being like a reflection of young Shaw, but also is similar looking/role to the past of Alias character Nadia Santos...
But also the whole town of Maple made me think of several Bad Robot and Friends works from Fringe's Westfield (and that episode in which they mention Project Elephant) to Bates Motel's White Pine Bay, but also The Boy used as Samaritan's mouth piece/avatar is a direct reference to what the nanites did in Revolution with Aaron Pittman----the final scene of that series is the nanites taking the worst of the worst characters to a theme park in Iowa in which to begin "mind control" experiments on them to discover how humans behave....
Most of the people in Maple were basically both scared into and/or rewarded into that situation, but they were not as complacent or delightfully engaged as the Samaritan boy has been...So I'm wondering if the idea behind these towns is not just to track/monitor people's behavior, but to eventually connect to them all wirelessly through sensory implants and Shaw could become one of Samaritan's "androids" about to join The Wild Westworld theme park ;D
Awesome episode. But i don't get how they didn't see that human experiment from the moment they turned up. This was interesting and as i expected i doesn't look good.
ReplyDeleteAs they can't be sure that Shaw is dead, I wonder what they will do with the underground HQ? Shaw new both the place and the way to enter into, so staying there would be a huge risk. (Or careless writing.) I hope the writers find a solution to this.
ReplyDeleteIt would be a while because of her pregnancy, but at least a season or two is a good guess.
ReplyDeleteSorry dude it doesn't matter how you twist it. Snow didn't work for Decima. Heck, strapping a bomb vest to his chest was all Stanton as it was. He carried out Stanton's orders due to having a bomb to his chest...just like Reese. It definitely is the obvious route as it is what everyone is guessing. Luckily the writers never go with the obvious. Turning Shaw into another Stanton or into one of those Decima terminators is repetitive and cliché. Hopefully the machine has a plan for Shaw and that's why it told the team to give up. That or Shaw with stands the manipulation.
ReplyDeleteIMHO, there are no ties between Greer and Shaw. Greer is a slave to Samaritan. The only reason that Shaw is alive is because Samaritan wanted her to be alive. For what purpose? The neural transplants immediately come to mind. But then again, was Shaw really shot in the head to necessitate a craniotomy? I don't think so. The other woman was the one who got shot in the head. Not Shaw. Samaritan is now acting like a scientist experimenting on human society using humans as guinea pigs. It sure has something planned for Shaw.
ReplyDeleteFor the first time in some time, it feels weird for me to enter a POI discussion thread so late. But real life kept me from watching the episode early.
ReplyDeleteAwesome episode with an epic ending. "SHE'S ALIVE. SHE'S ALIVE" *dances a little, all the while wiping away a happy tear tor two*
I refuse to believe that Greer saved Shaw because of past ties etc. No way!! Greer is a slave to Samaritan's commands. It was definitely Samaritan which ordered him (and Martine) to spare Shaw
Why did Samaritan let Shaw live? What is going to happen to her? Will Samaritan regard her as a guinea pig for its social experiments. This episode showed us that it was manipulating an entire town and town folk like lab rats. The possibilities of what Samaritan may do with Shaw makes me even more sincerely hope with all my heart that Sarah Shahi returns to the show in the near future.
Favorite scenes:
John and Root going increasingly dark, impatient and merciless as they interrogated the Thompson woman. The moment Root picked up that drill and afterwards when she drilled into that woman's hand (John didn't stop her) was chilling and amazing at the same time.
Root and Finch's final scene in front of that camera. Root's anguish as to why the Machine wouldn't help them was poignant. When the phone rang, I let out a yell of joy thinking that the Machine had decided to help them only to be crushed moments later when it told them to stop.
Loved the return of Dani Silva and her working together with Fusco to bring down a killer was interesting and tense enough to keep me engrossed even as my mind kept turning towards R&R.
Finally, the story line of how Samaritan is learning by experimenting on towns and people is chilling to say the least.
You could be right, but IMO there is something more personal happening. When I think of why Greer and Shaw are still alive and how they finally gave us some insight into Greer's past in the 3 episode arc leading to this, it dawns on me it's because there is still more story to tell and from that alone, I don't think it's coincidence they put them together.
ReplyDeleteThe Alias references are also abundant. In Alias the main character finds out her mother, Irina Derevko, was really a Russian spy who married her CIA agnet father and had her in order to obtain information. But part of the series also follows people who follow the works and prophecies of a 14th century prophet/inventor named Milo Rambaldi, in which Sydney and her sister are directed connected to. Sydney's mom, who Sydney thought died in a "car crash", ends up still being alive and working to help fulfill Rambaldi's work. So a lot the series is about Sydney reconciling her mother's existence and viewpoint. Even though it's clear her mother cared for her, she still ends up choosing Rambaldi over her daughter!
Both SS and AA are former Alias actresses---but Shaw in particular has episodes/scenes that directly reference/juxtapose her role that work--such as when she helped the child spy in "Razgover" (<---a Russian word), as Sydney was apart of a US military experiment that programmed children how to become spies later in life titled, Project Christmas--it also made it so she couldn't be altered by mind control!!!
The fact that we don't really understand why Shaw's family was specifically targeted and that we now know Greer was apart of the IMF during The Cold War and was tasked to play "double agent" with the Russians and he let someone go he wasn't suppose to., because he cared/sentimental (another theme of Alias), and that he also cares so deeply for his spiritual vision that is Decima and Samaritan, is just so similar to Irina Derevko (even though Sydney was her daughter, she wasn't against putting her "at risk") and her Rambaldi obsession...whether he's responsible for her father's death or he is her father, or he is the one that smuggled them out of Iran---I'll be very surprised if he revived her to torture or change for no real reason, other than persecution or to take out team machine. Greer is a Zealot, but he also has very good self control, so I don't see him doing this out of spite.
They also made a point to reveal that Control has a daughter in this "arc" (giving us are first episode Centrics for both Control and Greer), which might hint at a parallel of juxtaposition later on with a reveal of someone else being related to someone else.
Did it seem to anyone else that they had altered Silva's character's personality slightly from her first appearance ? When she was working with John I do not remember her being as closed off as she was with the Fusco ( no offense, Fusco, I love you). Was this to make her more like a Shaw type Team Machine operative temporarily? Impending motherhood agrees with Shahi - she was a great welcome sight in that last scene , even though it raised different kinds of concerns. Mercy me, I had almost forgotten about the charming Brotherhood and its ruthless leader Dominick, who still has unfinished business with Elias, who I hope has some ferrety tricks up his sleeve to fight the brilliant newcomer. I wonder what progress Dominick has made into figuring out the existence of the machines as he was zeroing in when we last saw him, no dummy that. I know a lot of people like the Samaritan storyline but the end of it cannot come fast enough for me but there are still a lot of plotlines to go before this season finishes.
ReplyDeleteThat is why I think there might be a deeper connection between Greer and Shaw. It seems pointless to just retread Stanton, since Shaw is clearly a much more important character. It's not that I don't think she couldn't become a Stanton or even a Martine for her own sake, or even a next step in "programming" (because in this case, it would probably require mind control--I don't think she could just be emotionally motivated to suddenly go down an anti-team-machine path, unless she "pretends"), but more over it feels right to add some character complexity to Greer that there could be a conflict of interest between Greer's and/or Samaritan's belief system and Shaw's life...Unless, the point is to prove to the audience that because of Shaw's "unique" behavior, can trick Samaritan and Greer's flashback was pointless, because he's a black and white villain after all...
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has never watched Alias it was a fascinating read.Thanks. :)
ReplyDeleteWhatever the case may be, Shaw's story line has so much potential that it has left me praying that Sarah Shahi comes back in some capacity or the other in the near future. It's like this - an epic story is being written/shown and she is a huge part of it. She is part of the puzzle/mosaic that is being completed by Nolan and Plageman. If the story ends without her returning, then IMHO, it's going to leave the mosaic forever incomplete and therefore tarnished.
I think, it's quite a good episode in general. But I again and again can not understand, why Root is still so blindly loyal to the Machine. It feels like it's time for her to revise attitude to the both AI-s and finally unite with Finch on the deepest level in getting back to genuine humanity (providing him not with some "targeted" support, but continuous and fundamental). Even facing the loss of her best friend she would never forget the predominant goal - to preserve the Mankind against global threats. So, her "good bye, Harold" at the end doesn't look compelling or even natural. She is suddenly behaving herself a bit immature, but in all previous episodes she has proven her extreme maturity so many times, that this a bit "hysterical" approach doesn't match her general pattern at all. The authors should not diminish her character so - it's not following from anywhere.
ReplyDeleteI'm feel pretty certain she'll be back, otherwise they would of just wrote her off. I'm sure it's just a way for SS to have her baby! But you're exactly right, without having a conclusion and/or a powerful return, it would tarnish the series, and she's a character that I agree has much more potential and story to add. :)
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping that, if they do pursue the "brainwashing Shaw into a Samaritan operative" storyline, they'll have Shaw fake it and work as a double agent for Team Machine. I that would be really fun to watch, and it might ease the cliche of it all.
ReplyDeleteJust saw the episode a couple hours ago, it was another fantastic episode. It wasn't as intense as the trilogy, but it still retained the high quality.
ReplyDeleteI am glad we got a definitive answer as to whether Shaw was dead or alive, and I am really glad she is alive. If she doesn't return to the team for whatever reason I could see Dani being a replacement for her. She reminded me a lot of Shaw.
Samaritan aspiring to teach itself about human nature, and the ways in which people work was captivating. I applaud the writers for their innovative and creative idea of teaching Samaritan about how humans operate. It will be intriguing to see what happens next regarding it, now that Samaritan decided to discontinue with the town of Maple.
For all those people who complain about POI having become a war of the machines and saying they miss the simplicity of season 1: Reese and Finch are on their own again, with two policemen two back them up, just like in the old days. Are you happy now? Can you quit complaining?
ReplyDeleteIt would make a good plotline but the Samaritan guys are not stupid. I don't think they would buy Shaw faking it. I don't think they would believe Shaw saying "Skrew Team Machine, I work for you now".
ReplyDeleteYeah, you might be right on that one. I think she could figure out a way to do it though. I mostly just don't want to see her working against Team Machine so I'm holding out hope hahaha.
ReplyDeleteI really would like to see it thoug. It's just that I can't think of anything that could make her work for Team Samaritan even though it's fake. Fortunately it's the writers who have to figure that out and not me LOL. I guess they think of something that is not contrived.
ReplyDeleteAfter last week’s huge brain teaser of an episode, we get another of similar vein but with more resolution: namely an answer to what the hell happened to Shaw? (she is alive for one which actually makes the situation worse as she is probably gonna be used for some pretty nefarious stuff).
ReplyDelete- The intriguing plot of the hour was the ant farm/Maple and Samaritain’s use of the town as a study device on humans…eek! (Glad I’m living in a city that’s financially stable and doesn’t rely too much on one particular industry). Compare Samaritain’s brutal education to the Machine’ more peaceful apprenticeship with Harold on the intricacies of human behavior and we have the crux of this whole big shebang.
- The Fusco/Silvia case was well done, giving some much needed focus on Fusco & more intriguingly on Siliva who might continue to be in the picture given that Root looks temporarily out of the picture.
- Worth repeating: Amy Acker/Root has been the MVP for much of the past 5 episodes with the occasional golden moment from Harold.
All in all another excellent episode to cap what has been an outstanding Season 4.
I really like how Finch calls Root by different names defending on what kind of conversation they are having.
ReplyDeleteI was really surprised they showed us Shaw at the end being alive. From all the interviews I had read, I thought for sure we wouldn't get a definitive answer, hinting at a death but leaving the door open to a possible return a few seasons down the road, if POI is lucky enough to get there, which is looking unlikely now anyway. So it really was a great reveal for me!
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