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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - Hibbing 911?

Dec 3, 2014

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75 comments:

  1. Ambar Moreno CandelasDecember 3, 2014 at 3:04 AM

    Great episode!!! :D Donna is very sweet and funny! I love Jody and Donna together :) Poor Jody :( Hakuna matata lady LOL! I really love Sam worried about Dean and all the scenes with the brothers together! ♥ OMG MY POOR DEAN! :´(

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  2. Peter J4December 3, 2014 at 3:12 AM

    I have a feeling a lot of people won't like this one, but I enjoyed it. I'd go as far as to say it was my favorite episode of the season.

    - terrific use of Jody, grudging mentor to Donna, slowly won over by Donna's pluckiness and heart, Jody as the worried mother, Jody trying to help Dean and Sam with emotional support, while not interfering in their lives

    - continuity that helps remind us that the characters can interact when they aren't oncamera, which this show often doesn't do (I'm talking about Sam calling Jody when Dean went missing)

    - remembering that Jody became a mother to Alexis, and using this as part of her character development even when Alexis isn't around

    - the parallels for being a monster were clumsy, and that slo-mo run the sheriff vamp made toward the woman's corpse was cheesy, but the guy who played him did a terrific job

    - good use of Donny and Jody without overshadowing Dean and Sam, or the main plot of the season

    - terrific writing for Donna, making her seem less like a caricature - a woman that has some pain under her chirpy facade, but is also tough and smart and adapts well

    - the continued parallel of Dean and Donna (in her last episode you could tell he related to her far more than he would let on), as we saw her big happy grin when she beheaded the vamp, and he was happy for her

    - decent, non-sluggish pacing

    - some fun lines and banter between Sam and Dean and between Donna and Jody

    - an overall sense of caring and warmth instead of forced flipness

    - classic rock music

    - Dean looking hot (and the belt removal scene...)

    This was much better than I thought it would be.

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  3. ShannonDecember 3, 2014 at 3:18 AM

    Sorry, I was way too busy fangirling (still am) over the Flash/Arrow crossover to pay attention fully to SPN, but it was nice to see Jody again.

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  4. klutzy_girlDecember 3, 2014 at 4:04 AM

    Can Jody and Donna get their own spin-off please?

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  5. GingerDecember 3, 2014 at 4:10 AM

    I would give it a 1 for playing "The Weight." There could not be a clearer example that the J2s are now nothing more than regulars in the show. This episode was written specifically for the guest actors with the Winchesters showing up to support their girl bonding. I hope the J2s enjoyed their week off from filming though.

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  6. Peter J4December 3, 2014 at 4:23 AM

    I felt like we saw quite a bit of Dean and Sam in this, especially compared to Jody's last episode.

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  7. Peter J4December 3, 2014 at 4:24 AM

    That would be great. The show allowing a few characters to be happy and find something positive in hunting is very refreshing.

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  8. lala2December 3, 2014 at 6:02 AM

    That Farrow crossover was really good! Tomorrow's episode should be good too!

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  9. Peter J4December 3, 2014 at 6:42 AM

    Did you watch the SPN episode tonight?

    ReplyDelete
  10. ShannonDecember 3, 2014 at 7:54 AM

    I'm never calling it that. I hate it. Fyi, Stephen hates it too, which makes me love him even more. lol But i agree it was epic!!! I have no doubt tomorrow night won't be equally so.

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  11. KevinDecember 3, 2014 at 8:31 AM

    Enjoyed this episode much more then I thought I would and I agree with what many are saying that Jody and Donna make for enjoyable characters together. If they bring them back, I hope Donna retains her humor. :)

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  12. CanadagraphsDecember 3, 2014 at 11:18 AM

    I surprisingly gave it a "great" rating.
    The last time we saw Jody, I felt that episode was tired and really made me feel that the Sheriff Mills character was past its best before date.
    But tonight her & Donna worked well together.
    Good to see the writers rely on guest stars for once, and have it actually work out, to carry some of the load instead of just Cas & Crowley. filling in the screen time the Winchesters aren't in.

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  13. chris684December 3, 2014 at 12:24 PM

    Lala, I decided to give AoS a try. I was flipping back and forth between these two shows for the hour, and had no idea what was going on on AoS, but it looked good. I'll have to get caught up over the holidays. It was nice to see Jess again! :-)


    I'm pretty much done with this show. It wasn't so much this episode as it was the fact that none of the three main season threads interests me (angels, Dean's MoC, or witches). I've always found witches to one of the weaker monsters, the angel mythology is about two years past its expiration date, and while the MoC would have grabbed me had they chosen to stay longer with Dean dangerous (with a lot of cat-and-mouse with Sam), the angle they've chosen (Dean feeling worthless) has been a major theme on this show about every season since season 3 and I'm ready for new material.


    This episode wasn't bad other than a bit too slow for my taste, and I had some of my usual criticisms (every time I flipped back to it, Dean was doing all of the talking and Sam had little if any dialogue, the monster-choice scene had me rolling my eyes, and while I like Jody as a support character I don't think she's interesting enough to carry more than the very rare episode).

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  14. sdwhiskeyDecember 3, 2014 at 12:35 PM

    Great review Peter! I really have nothing to add that you didn't already say so I'll just say that I really enjoyed the episode as well. :)

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  15. ParadiseHeatDecember 3, 2014 at 1:24 PM

    Mid season finale next week which is basically the Dean show with a side of Cas/Crowley/Rowena, then back after hiatus its the Charlie show with a side of Dean, then who knows for 2 episodes, then another Dean heavy episode with the MOC and Cain. Did we really need an episode about Jody and some cop that was in one scene in one episode last season when we've had no Sam centric episodes, there is no Sam storyline and he's basically spent every episode making faces at Dean? Jared thinks this is worth being away from his family for? A regular paycheck is all well and good but he could actually spend more time with his family and earn by doing a movie here and there or guest on other shows. Hell he could join an ensemble cast on a procedural and be put to better use. I hate that he's wasting his life on this show. Hope he doesnt sign on for another season.

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  16. chris684December 3, 2014 at 2:03 PM

    I agree with some of this. This writing staff just doesn't develop characters and Sam is a character who is a little flat on the surface, so he needs some layered writing. I ran a series of polls a couple of seasons back in which viewers nominated and voted on what they consider the key characteristics of the four main characters (Sam, Dean, Cas, and Bobby). I was looking at the list last summer and realizing the writing staff has dropped writing most of these top character traits for Sam - even ones that have nothing to do with his supernatural storylines, like being super smart, having control issues, being a little geeky, having a stubborn streak. The poll is here if you're interested: http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/11/supernatural-describe-sams-character.html



    This isn't going to change. And while it's funny to think of the Jared as aging (because he seems young to me), Hollywood is about youth, and he's not getting any challenging acting opportunities on this show. If he's staying because it's where he wants to be, then good for him, but I hope he's not staying out of some sense of obligation. Last night I was thinking that it would be cool if he got a role on AoS and we saw Sam and Jess paired up again, even if they're different characters. ;)

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  17. FringenosDecember 3, 2014 at 2:15 PM

    Jody sold it (they used her better than last time) though I thought the dialog in this episode was very stiffly written at times.
    So, yeah, I thought it was good, with some faults, but Jody really got this going.

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  18. Michele KlingerDecember 3, 2014 at 2:36 PM

    it was a fun episode. I love Donna and Jodi as a duo :) but I will say Supernatural knows we need fun before what looks like will be a tense and freaky mid season finale.

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  19. AudreyDecember 3, 2014 at 2:52 PM

    Don't worry, Jared didn't spend more than 2 days in vancouver a week since a while. So he got to spend a lot of time with his family.
    Sam has been written totally OOC and sidelined since Carver took the reign and it won't changed anytime soon.

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  20. chris684December 3, 2014 at 3:00 PM

    The sidelining and flattening started during the Gamble years when Sam got back his soul but not his personality. His spirit and drive is still with Lucifer. The OOC crap started with Carver.

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  21. AudreyDecember 3, 2014 at 3:23 PM

    Is kripke the only one who understand our boys ?

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  22. chris684December 3, 2014 at 3:36 PM

    Gamble didn't get him wrong. She just stopped developing him and seemed to lose control over the writing group. All of the writers seemed to be going in completely different directions in season 7, and most from that group seemed to have a pretty obvious preference for writing Dean.

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  23. chris684December 3, 2014 at 5:17 PM

    Disagree about season 4. Even though his POV was in the background more than it could have been, there were some very strong Sam POV episodes that pulled together the Sam themes from seasons 2 (Sam's biggest fear was becoming a monster) and season 3 (Sam's feelings of powerless over not being able to help Dean were being manipulated by Ruby). In season 4 we saw that come together, and watched Ruby manipulate that fear of powerlessness to get Sam to turn himself into a monster (vampiric blood-drinking thing that his family would hunt).


    I think season 5 was more problematic with the sudden introduction of the ideas that Sam deals with things by running and that Sam was addicted to power - two ideas that seemed to be pulled out of the air to draw parallels with Lucifer.


    In season 6, they just stopped trying. If the mytharc elements were too troublesome, they could have tied up the mytharc loose ends and shifted gears toward a human storyline, but they didn't even do that. In season 5 Sam was inconsistently written. In season 6 Sam became a plot device.

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  24. chris684December 3, 2014 at 5:18 PM

    The killing the nurse was to show that Sam had lost control and was really turning into the monster he had always feared becoming. That was resolved IMO.

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  25. AudreyDecember 3, 2014 at 6:20 PM

    Joking apart, I too think Sera Gamble was one of the writer who knew Sam the best. I love Dean a lot and get that the different writers find it easier to write for Dean but they are not supposed to only go for the easier and I resent more and more the fact than Sam is sidelined. I'd like both brother to have a storyline, both bother to have a point of view and be consistent.
    At least in season 6 and 7, even if Sam was a plot device, he was in the story.

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  26. lala2December 3, 2014 at 6:22 PM

    Hmmm . . . what do you mean by that? I thought re-souled Sam was just like the Sam we have all come to know and love. You thought he had a different personality?


    I agree that Carver started w/the OOC crap w/r/t Sam though.

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  27. Ereth ReetnithDecember 3, 2014 at 6:24 PM

    i liked it. it's nice that Jody is making friends with a badge that r now informed of what is going on; having a backup when she can't get to Sam and Dean would be good.

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  28. lala2December 3, 2014 at 6:26 PM

    I was thinking the same thing too. I would love to see Jared on AoS.

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  29. chris684December 3, 2014 at 6:51 PM

    He seemed more muted or passive when he came back. He used to have more independent thought and challenge Dean often but he didn't so that anymore (with the exception of challenging Dean's decision to erase Lisa's memory). He seemed to have lost drive, or passion, for lack of better words. I sometimes nicknamed the latest iteration as "empty vessel Sam" in my comments. I remember reading a theory over at TWFB that the change, which they had noticed too, was because the wall was separating the part of Sam's soul that remembered Hell, except that the wall fell and he was still like that.

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  30. lala2December 3, 2014 at 7:00 PM

    Chris, I've given up on this show too. It definitely isn't my favorite show anymore, and my interest has waned even more since the start of the season. I don't even rush to watch the episodes anymore. I've been watching AoS live and taping Supernatural. In the beginning, I was watching Supernatural that same night, but lately, I've been hanging onto an episode for several days before I watch it.


    The show is just boring to me now in the sense that it seems to be largely focused on characters I don't care about. I like Jodi. I liked Donna. Did I want an entire episode about them? Not particularly. I still watch for Sam and Dean, and nothing seems to be happening w/them. Like you, I wish they had gone longer w/the DD arc. That was interesting. MOC!Dean is just not interesting to me. I didn't care for they way it played last night, and I don't like the way it is playing now. Oh well. This season isn't doing much for me.


    I'm glad you gave AoS a shot! I really enjoyed last night's episode. You'll have to tell me what you think when you catch up :-)

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  31. lala2December 3, 2014 at 7:01 PM

    I have not watched it yet.

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  32. lala2December 3, 2014 at 7:04 PM

    Okay . . . I see your point. I can agree w/that. Honestly, I think the writers were at a loss as to what to do with "Sam" once he was re-souled. It has been my opinion for a while now that the writers don't know how to write for Sam so they just don't do it or they do it very poorly and inconsistently.

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  33. lala2December 3, 2014 at 7:05 PM

    Haha! I saw it on another board and thought it was cute :-)


    Yeah . . . it was a pretty great episode! I was totally Team Oliver/Arrow! I thin the lessons he was trying to teach Barry were good ones that Barry could stand to learn.

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  34. ShannonDecember 4, 2014 at 12:29 AM

    Yeah it's going around the internet. I hate it. lol you'll never hear me say it (probably only to mock it), as Stephen said, "I'm not with it."...anywho, yessss I thought the lessons Oliver were teaching him were 100% perfect!! I mean Dead on! And I HOPEEEE Barry listens. I mean how else is he going to be apart of the JL? = p

    30 more minuted til Round 2!!!!

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  35. Sam GaldorDecember 4, 2014 at 12:50 AM

    Awesome! Thios season is incredible!

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  36. JoDecember 4, 2014 at 5:08 AM

    I thought that ending scene was exactly what the fans needed. We are always so enthralled in the Winchester world that we are unaware oh the profound impact that the introduction of that kind of life would have on a person who is not accustomed to it.

    The conversation between Sam and Dean while Mills and Hascum have their conversation gave us perspective as the viewers. That scene showed that we have become Dean and Sam as viewers, attached to a certain lifestyle, while others are only just introduced to it and are in need of help. I thought it was beautiful and the highlight of the episode.

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  37. San SummerDecember 4, 2014 at 6:04 AM

    Boo! :D I want to hear your thoughts on the episode.

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  38. Peter J4December 4, 2014 at 6:46 AM

    To me it was never properly dealt with, because it was mostly just done for that "how far has he gone?" moment. Soon enough it turned back to how he'd been manipulated by Ruby and how Dean was a bad brother. I don't think Kripke put all that much thought into the consequences. And that took away a great deal of Sam's integrity as a character.

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  39. Misty PebworthDecember 4, 2014 at 6:50 AM

    Donna annoyed, Jody over acted, boys barely played a role in this. Just not my favorite episode. Probably my least fave this season. Since when do vampires consume meat?? Way of the buffalo or not, vamps drink blood!

    Ugh. But I take it back. The clue episode was my least favorite ever, with the only interest part being dean shooting.

    What happened to secondary characters that can act?? I'm really not picky as a fan, I understand that it's an old show, but oh my gosh there are SO many terrible actors nowadays on this show!! And while directing/writing may play its part in this, they do NOT need to be so blatantly over the top that you can visibly see Jared and Jensen cringing as they try to stay in character.

    Dean was great as always. Sam..I don't know, he seems less older, wiser same, and more Sam 1.0 from Season 1. It's not bad, it's just...jarring. Pulls me out of the show and makes me cringe. I love Sam, but it feels like the current writers only watched season 1 and went with it. Dean has changed over the years, and Sam did too for a while..until he suddenly morphed back,

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  40. Peter J4December 4, 2014 at 6:52 AM

    I thought the acting was decent overall. The guy who played the sheriff, Fred Ewaunick (?), has been in a lot of good stuff over the years. You should check out Robson Arms, which has a few other SPN guests here and there.

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  41. Peter J4December 4, 2014 at 6:53 AM

    The episode had more Dean and Sam than the previews indicated.

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  42. Peter J4December 4, 2014 at 6:53 AM

    That show has too many characters as it is. Every time I try to watch some of the more annoying ones get in my way.

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  43. Peter J4December 4, 2014 at 6:59 AM

    I think the show tried for this with Sam in the first half of season 4, but then it had to turn into brother war, so you had Sam trashing Dean for being tortured in hell, and Dean saying Sam was the new John, and other stuff that essentially told viewers to see Sam as unsympathetic at best, malicious at worst. Kripke was so desperate for that brother vs brother crap, he never looked back.

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  44. chris684December 4, 2014 at 1:31 PM

    "so you had Sam trashing Dean for being tortured in hell, and Dean saying Sam was the new John, and other stuff that essentially told viewers to see Sam as unsympathetic at best, malicious at worst."

    I came into this show late, so I watched the earlier seasons away from fandom comments, and I didn't see any of this. The narrative, although clunky at places, came together after a few watches, and it never occurred to me to hate Sam any more than I should hate Rick from TWD because he's going through a dark period, or hate Daryl because moved on and didn't look for Beth after she went missing because he had no where to start.

    There's nothing that Sam did then that the writers don't currently have Dean doing now with his MoC arc. Sam choked Dean. Dean swung a hammer at Sam's head. Sam, under supernatural influence, said Dean was weak. Dean, as a demon, blamed Sam for the death of their mother. I think where most of the online fandom land on this has to do more with whether they fall more into the Sam-fan camp or Dean-fan camp. The non-online fandom is probably oblivious to most of this and will weather short periods of darker writing just fine.

    What I think has been much more damaging to Sam is years of neglect in developing characterization and sympathetic POV. Even as someone who leans toward Sam, I find myself struggling to stay enthusiastic for a character who gets so little attention.

    On the flip side, I'm not sure the opposite (the consequences of all of Dean's questionable acts being away because of overly sympathetic POV writing) has done him many favors. I mentioned the character polls that I ran in another post. What struck me most about Dean's results was that they were so polarized. They were either idolization (heroic, brave, selfless) or slamming (bossy, insecure, needy). He wasn't getting the more descriptive terms that Sam or Bobby were getting - the type of words you would use to describe a real person who you know. This was Dean's poll BTW, http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/12/supernatural-describe-deans-character.html

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  45. lala2December 4, 2014 at 8:17 PM

    Haha! I love Coulson!
    I was thinking more of a guest spot actually since I don't think Jared could do both shows at the same time.

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  46. lala2December 4, 2014 at 8:18 PM

    Well, that is good to know. I may watch it tonight.

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  47. lala2December 4, 2014 at 8:19 PM

    Haha :-)
    I am going to try to watch it tonight, but I must warn you that I am hating this season. The episodes aren't awful, but they aren't spectacular, IMO, either. It's been a pretty boring season so far.
    JMO.

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  48. lala2December 5, 2014 at 6:37 PM

    I can say as someone who had watched the show from the Pilot, I, also, did not start to hate Sam b/c of his S4 actions. Sam's S4 actions frustrated and enraged me, but I never started hating him. There are many in the audience though who did and who still hate Sam b/c of S4.

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  49. lala2December 5, 2014 at 6:39 PM

    Round 2 was awesome, wasn't it? The crossover was an excellent idea! I really enjoyed both nights!

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  50. chris684December 5, 2014 at 7:07 PM

    I know there are. I've read their posts. There are also people who hate Cas and can go on and on about how evil he was in season 4, and people who hate Dean for multiple reasons. What I'm saying is that the vast majority of people (mostly non-online people who don't seem to fixate on these things as strongly) may have a temporary reaction, but they move on and forget. A character can go dark and recover.

    It's the years of lack of development that have damaged Sam so much more. This next part has absolutely nothing to back it up, but I think a lot of Sam fans in the season 7-9 period either stopped watching, transitioned to hate-watchers, or just continued to watch but have been checked out. The realization that Sam's season 7 storyline was going to be nothing more than handrubs and a magic touch by Cas hit the fandom hard. That's just my own observation based on online conversations, but I think it's part of the reason Sam seems to get bashed more and more each year. His fans don't have any hope anymore.

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  51. ShannonDecember 5, 2014 at 9:08 PM

    Soooooo Epic!!! Did you read my review on the second night? lol, you'll probably laugh. I loved BOTH nights, but i loved Arrow's episode more. = )

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  52. Peter J4December 6, 2014 at 5:51 AM

    They could reunite him with Adriene. That would be nice.

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  53. ParadiseHeatDecember 9, 2014 at 1:21 PM

    I think its on a par with season 7 in terms of boring.

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  54. ParadiseHeatDecember 9, 2014 at 1:24 PM

    I'd like to see him on any show other than SPN. I would love him on Arrow/Flash maybe as a villian?

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  55. ParadiseHeatDecember 9, 2014 at 1:25 PM

    who said both, he could quit SPN and the show could keep going with Carver's faves. Sam isnt all that well likes/used or important anymore anyway.

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  56. ParadiseHeatDecember 9, 2014 at 1:34 PM

    you forget that Kripke was a Dean/Jensen boy too though, he modled a lot of Dean's personality on himself.

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  57. spnmonsterDecember 9, 2014 at 2:15 PM

    I agree overall. I enjoyed the episode as I was watching, but after the fact the vampire redux -- vamps eating flesh -- really bothered me. I think the writers have become cavalier about changing mythology for no good reason and without considering how it impacts the larger universe.

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  58. spnmonsterDecember 9, 2014 at 2:22 PM

    It's incredibly disappointing, but the writers appear to have no interest in writing Sam. After the blood addiction, soullessness, hallucinations, trial sickness, possession, I think they've forgotten who he is and have no inclination to rediscover him. Unless there's something "wrong" with him, he's just a supporting character now.

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  59. spnmonsterDecember 9, 2014 at 2:24 PM

    Yes, I'm not sure how much control Gamble had in season seven. Word is Singer took over, and he's the one that met with Carver pre-season eight to hash out where the narrative would go.

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  60. spnmonsterDecember 9, 2014 at 2:40 PM

    I generally agree about seasons four and five, but not six. I think Soulless!Sam told us a lot about what makes Sam who he is. Additionally, we saw that despite all Dean complaints about Sam being a stick in the mud, that's exactly who Dean needs him to be. I think fandom is polarized on season six though. Fans either love it or hate it. I happen to love the red herrings, I do think there's some loose ends however because they changed tactics midstream when fans responded negatively. They were far harsher with Gamble than Carver and she did a better job than Carver did in season eight.

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  61. spnmonsterDecember 9, 2014 at 2:42 PM

    Agreed. Since Gamble left, no one has been writing for Sam, and Carver -- who wrote Sam well in the early seasons -- doesn't seem to care. That bothers me a lot.

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  62. spnmonsterDecember 9, 2014 at 2:54 PM

    S4 did hurt Sam with a lot of fans, but really put the nail in the coffin, so to speak, for a lot of fans was Carver choosing to have Sam not look for Dean pre-season eight. Sam's story was told so poorly in S8 that many fans still don't get why he did what he did or even what happened to him during that lost year. They think he just hooked up with Amelia and got on with his life, which is the furthest thing from the truth. I really can't blame Gamble and S7. I don't think that's the problem. The first half of S8 was just a mess as far as I'm concerned. I know a lot of long-time fans quit watching or started hate watching with all the OOC and heightened brother conflict.

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  63. spnmonsterDecember 9, 2014 at 2:56 PM

    S2, really? I don't know. There were some great Sam heavy eps like "The Usual Suspects" and "Croatoan."

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  64. spnmonsterDecember 9, 2014 at 3:04 PM

    Flesh eating vampires! Right?! Ridiculous and pointless.

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  65. San SummerDecember 9, 2014 at 3:07 PM

    I have gotten the impression that Jensen would not want to continue making Supernatural without Jared. It seems that Jensen likes to think of the show being about the two brothers.

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  66. San SummerDecember 9, 2014 at 3:10 PM

    I would love to see Jared on Arrow because Jared and Stephen being friends in real life might translate into great chemistry on-screen. So I would want to see Jared’s character team up with Oliver.

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  67. chris684December 9, 2014 at 3:56 PM

    I was initially excited about Sam's storyline in season 6 because I stupidly assumed that there was an interesting story behind why Sam became soulless (as well what he had been up to in that missing year) and it when we learned what the story behind the soullessness was, it would tell us something about Sam's time in the cage, and his activities with the Campbells would be tie in with the alpha-mother-monster mytharc. In the end it turned out that Cas just flaked and picked up the body rather than the soul, because angels obviously can't tell the difference (yes, that was sarcasm). I wanted to believe that Sam's period of soullessness would tell us something about Sam, but I just didn't see it.


    As for the wall, the only purpose that seemed to serve was to prevent the second half of season 6 from getting bogged down by Sam having post-Hell emotions and to act as a plot device to increase tension between Dean and Cas.

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  68. chris684December 9, 2014 at 4:02 PM

    My discontent started earlier than yours. I started season 6 excited, was getting frustrated by the end when the realization started to hit that they really weren't going to tell the story of what happened to Sam after he fell into the cage, and then the writers dropping what should have been an opportunity to reconnect to Sam's character and his emotions in season 7 sent me to the dark side of the fandom for the rest of the season. The first half of season 8 just seemed like a joke, kicking the fandom when it was already down. I was mostly checked out at that point. I really can't take the "Sam not looking" too seriously because it made no sense and the writers never made the slightest effort to make it make some sense.

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  69. spnmonsterDecember 9, 2014 at 5:13 PM

    Well, Edlund wrote "The Man Who Would Be King" in an attempt to save Cas from looking like a villain, which I think is exactly what he was intended to be, but they realized that fans would throw too much of a fit. It would have made more sense -- in the narrative we were given -- if Cas had intended to pull Sam from the Cage without his soul so that he could work with Samuel whom Cas pulled out of Heaven.

    It would explain why Cas never answered Soulless!Sam's prayers and how Samuel got out of Heaven. It never made sense that Crowley did it. How could the King of Hell get someone out of Heaven? It would show Castiel to be wiley as well as duplicitous; rather than just inept.

    Eve was just a red herring, which since they wimped out on making Cas a villain, I wish they'd gone with her being the big bad. I mean look, soft-selling Cas made him breaking the wall in Sam's head a pathetic and pointless move. It didn't stop Dean, and we were supposed to accept it after Cas himself argued against putting Sam's soul back because of the effect it would have on him. If he'd had the ulterior motive of not wanting it put back because Sam would have remembered his soul being left in the Cage intentionally, it would have had impact. As they wrote it, it didn't.

    I think they changed direction mid-season so there were a number of loose threads that never pulled together.

    Hm, I never got the feeling Soulless!Sam was the butt of jokes. He just didn't suffer fools. Wheraas Sam is the epitome of patience and empathy, Soulless!Sam didn't have time for such "nonsense" from people. In a number of cases, he acted more as we would expect Dean to behave, which made Dean uncomfortable. I thought that was insightful. I didn't laugh at S!S. I laughed at Dean's discomfort.

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  70. spnmonsterDecember 9, 2014 at 5:28 PM

    I think that S7 was a season of missed opportunities. Godstiel had great potential as for a storyline and redemption for Cas, but it was thrown away when he walked into the reservoir. Instead, we got amnensiac/psychotic break/hippie dippy Cas. He magically fixed Sam and successfully evaded a real confrontation with Dean or apology to Sam. Blech. Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    And poor Sam was just a chew toy for the writers. There were some good moments, but overall his storyline was just about him getting tortured and jerked around -- again -- which is why having him not look for Dean was so bad.

    kicking the fandom when it was already down

    Exactly. It was adding insult to injury. Just when our patience with Sam being the kicked dog was at and end, Carver stepped in and prolonged it. I'll never forgive him for that. He's admitted that it was kind of on a whim. Instead of having Sam do what he should do, he thought, "hey what if he did the opposite?" As if Sam didn't deserve a chance to finally save Dean. As if many of us hadn't been waiting for the boys to really be a team again. No, we got conflict for the sake of conflict.

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  71. chris684December 9, 2014 at 5:32 PM

    I agree that there was an obvious change in direction midseason. The conversation at the end of Caged Heat between Cas and Sam plays like there is so much more going on behind the scenes. Unfortunately, since the original plan didn't play out we're left with what we saw as the story, and the story ended with Sam's soullness having no more purpose than serving as an example of the value of souls. The experience didn't have a long-term emotional or character effect on either Sam or Dean. I guess you could say the soullessness was a red herring too.

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  72. lala2December 10, 2014 at 3:18 AM

    Those were good episodes, but I thought a little more could have been spent on Sam's feelings re: John's death and how Sam processed John's order to Dean. Sam always had conflict w/John and felt unloved by him, so I suspect knowing that his father was prepared, willing, and ready to KILL him had to make Sam feel something.

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  73. lala2December 10, 2014 at 3:19 AM

    Sad, but true!

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  74. lala2December 10, 2014 at 3:20 AM

    That would be cool! Jared as a "meta-human," and he seems to be good friends w/Stephen Amel (sp), so if he had a role/guest role on Arrow, that would be neat!

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  75. lala2December 10, 2014 at 3:23 AM

    I can agree w/that. I also found S5 somewhat boring, esp. after the brother conflict was "resolved," but I think you are right about this season being more like S7. At least, S7, IMO, had three really good episodes . . . one of which became a favorite of mine. I am still waiting to watch that one S10 episode I really enjoy. It hasn't happened yet, but perhaps, tonight's episode was really good. I'll soon see :-)

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