Supernatural – Episode 10.05 – The Gripe Review
15 Nov 2014
Reviews Supernatural The Gripe ReviewApologies beforehand if this reviews sounds incomplete, disjointed or incoherent. I had a terrible time watching this episode and after I did, I seem to have blocked off most of it from my mind, so things in this article might not be as accurate as they should be.
Hello and welcome to the nearly impossible to write Gripe Review for episode 200. Last week I said I wished someone would pay me for having to watch Paper Moon to write its review. This week I wished I could pay someone to watch the episode for me and give me key notes for the review, because I literally, literally could not watch this episode in its entirety without gagging.
There are no words for how much I despised this week’s show. I will write a review, I will list my gripes, but this by no means can express the depth of despair, second hand embarrassment, and incredulous outrage I felt while forcing myself to get through it. I'm hoping the comments help me because as off Wednesday night (yes I watched it a day late; I was dreading it that much,) I feel almost violated. To make things worse, since last July I cut all ties with the fandom and the multiple forums I was active on, so I don't have a place to go and vent. This is truly the only SPN corner for me to mourn what’s happened to my favorite show.
Before "Fan Fiction”, "Bitten" was the worst episode of the series for me. The crown is now passed to the landmark 200th episode. And how sad that this was a milestone, for it looks like 100 shows past the memorable "Point of No Return," Supernatural has finally hit its rock bottom. It no longer is the iconic TV show it once was, but a chaotic fairground Carver and his writers trash on regular basis and use as a stage to parade their self-indulgent ownership of it by dragging its text, its fans and its legacy though mud.
Gripe #1 - What is this even supposed to be?
Comedy? Parody? A homage to the fandom? A stab at the female fans?
If you make an episode that isn't funny, doesn't have action, or emotion, or a decent plot for that matter, there must be a reason behind it. The more I think about it, the less I find that reason. Why did Carver and his writers decide to make a Supernatural themed musical packed with fandom references? Was it the challenge of it? To see if they could still push the envelope in a post Edlund landscape that has been sadly barren of genius meta? And why an all-female cast for an all-male show? Why not a mixture of girls and boys?
What were Sam and Dean supposed to take away from this?
In Monster at the End of this Book they broke the fourth wall by making Sam and Dean's life into a book series that had a fandom. They poked a bit of fun at that fandom, but mainly the episode centered on Chuck's introduction as the Winchester Gospel's prophet. It was an ingenious idea and to this day, one of my most favourite episodes of the show.
In The Real Ghost Busters we had a Supernatural convention, the fan stuff was still kept light and again, the episode focused more on Chuck's story and the season's main arc.
The French Mistake was a little more meta but even it had roots in the season's mythology. In the end, there was a purpose to Sam and Dean’s journey to the other other world.
This episode, I can’t find a purpose for. It isn’t grounded in the show's mythology, and nothing that happens adds or subtracts anything from the main arc (whatever that is at the moment.) It pretty much plays like a dragged out comedy sketch, with the same joke – which was only hinted at in the aforementioned episodes - stretched across the entire hour. In the end nothing is gained. The only change that happens is that the viewers are thrown out of their suspension of disbelief while the absurdity of the most obsessed subset of their population is slapped in their faces as if to say, “Look, this is you. We find you pathetic.”
Gripe #2 - Who is this awful character supposed to represent?
No offence to the actress. I’m sure she did the best with the material she was given. This character however has no redeeming qualities. She has to be one of the most unconvincing and ridiculous side characters ever to appear on the show. Nothing she says, or does, feels authentic. It's as if she was invented to annoy and insult Sam and Dean with her smartass answers to their justified confusion. She and her co-captain mostly behaved like actors who didn’t want to break character even while interacting with people in real life.
I talked in one of my earlier reviews about clownish behaviors from one-off characters. Marie is a prime example of that. There's no universe in which her over the top attitude makes any sense unless this entire episode is a big prank on Sam and Dean orchestrated by Ashton Kutcher.
Chuck was a metaphor for the Supernatural writers. The cast and crew in The French Mistake carried the names of the actual cast and crew of the show and were supposed to represent them. Who is Marie supposed to represent? Us? Tumblr? IMDB? The fandom in general? Carver? Thompson? The mighty God? Or is she just a random character who happens to talk like she swallowed the entire Supernatural fandom and barfs it every time she opens her mouth?
Gripe #3 - Why does Dean care?
From the moment Dean steps into the auditorium and sees the actors and the set he is bothered by it. I know they did it for the comedic effect: nothing drags more hahas out of the viewers than the always composed Dean getting rattled by a bunch of cosplaying teens. What I don't get is why he was so bothered? This is not a Broadway production that millions of people would watch. He and Sam aren't public figures whose characters would be defamed by a small high school play. As far as these girls and everyone in their audience knows they are fictional characters in a book series. Why does Dean try to correct them, or stop them from reinterpreting the stories? Why isn’t he more like Sam, slightly amused and completely unconcerned?
I would have understood if Dean took offence at the prop depicting his mother’s burning body on the ceiling, or the actor reducing Bobby's entire character to a single catchphrase. But he said nothing to those, yet took the most issue with the play's Sam and Dean standing a little too close together, which was yet another stab at the subtext-loving section of the fandom for God knows what reason.
Gripe #4 - Dropping the 'D' bomb
When last summer at JIB con, Jensen Ackles implied fans of Dean & Castiel's romantic relationship were delusional I thought it was unnecessary censure. Why did he care what people wrote in their fanfiction? Why spoil their fun? Some fans told me it was because he and other cast members were fed up with people bringing it to their attention, because such things belonged in the closed circles of the fandom and, like dirty laundry, should never be aired in front of the people who bring us the show. I accepted that as legitimate. After all, an actor who's played a character for a decade feels close to him, and may not like to be reminded of every interpretation the fans might come up with for that character. He shouldn’t be forced to deal with it.
Fast forward to this episode and because of what was put in the script he had to deal with it, extensively.
So the decree that Destiel is fandom bound and neither Jensen, nor anyone else involved with the show should have to hear about it only applies to the fans. The writers can bring it up, dress it down, put it on screen, and Jensen & Co have to perform it in very nauseating details? They went as far as discussing ship names, the correct way to pronounce it, and lets not forget the cosplay Cas singing a melancholy song to a sleeping cosplay Dean.
In an age when Arrow makes its flagship canon, and Hannibal's creator teases slash fans with suggestive dialogue, it was quite conservative for Supernatural’s cast and crew not to want to touch the concept with a ten foot pole. But as I said, it was their right and fans respected it. What writers did in this episode was to walk all over that respect. It was as if they said, “You shouldn’t talk to the actors about it, but we’ll do it if we want to, idjits!”
Edit (Jensen's spontaneous look at the camera): A few posters are telling me in the comments that the look Jensen gave the camera as Destiel was discussed was unscripted, and it was to show how much he despised shipping. So let me get this straight. Jensen is giving the viewers the stink eye because of something Robbie put in his script? How is that fair? Or even logical?
Gripe #5 - Phrase Goulash
Destiel wasn't the only fandom bomb they dropped in this episode. Idjit, assbutt, baby, Samulet, chick flick moment, and whatever BM was supposed to mean flew left and right past our ears. This episode was chock-full of phrases pulled out of fandom and show lockers and inserted into every piece of dialogue they had room for. It was obviously meant as a “Wink wink, nudge nudge" to the diehard fans. However I don't imagine anyone being amused by the twentieth or thirtieth time it was done, not even the most hard-core fans. They stuffed the entire script with references. After a while it felt tasteless, forced and faked, not to mention peculiar to those casual viewers who knew nothing about half of them. It felt like characters couldn't have a normal conversation before having to pause for a bada-boom-pish Supernatural reference, a habit which made them even more unnatural and unbelievable.
Gripe #6 - Sam shilling (?!)
At one point Marie says to Dean “If Sam and Dean were real, they wouldn’t back down from a fight. Especially my sweet, brave, selfless Sam. There’s nothing he can’t do,” and Dean looks somewhat miffed.
I don’t get what they meant to parody here. We saw Sam obsession with Becky too. Yet in the real world, at least as far as my experience goes, both brothers have large fanbases with neither one overshadowing the other. So where is this Sam shilling (or parody of Sam shilling) come from? Is the criticism aimed at the fans who – in their opinion - unfairly favor one Winchester over the other, or at their own writing, which from the beginning insisted on giving the most plot driving, challenging quests to Sam while relegating Dean's role to that of the supportive older brother?
And isn't it also interesting that, when the script demanded the author self insert herself into her own play, it was in the role of Sam?
Gripe #7 – Show shilling(?!)
When Sam and those kids were trapped in the school basement we finally met the villainess. In the same vein as most Monsters of the Weeks, she started monologuing the moment the camera turned to her, and this part of her speech stood out for me, “Supernatural has everything: Life, death, resurrection, redemption. But above all, family. All set to music you can really tap your toe to. It isn’t some meandering piece of genre dreck. It’s epic.”
Again, are they laughing at themselves or dead serious about this? I only agree with this if they changed the tense from present to past. Supernatural had everything. It wasn’t some meandering piece of genre dreck. It was epic. Putting such a bold statement in an episode as dreckish as this one creates a black hole of irony that sucks everything out of existence except for the pure essence of WTF.
Gripe #7 - Wasting Chuck's appearance on this pile of @#$
And finally, poor Chuck. For 5 seasons the mystery of who he was and why he disappeared was kept safe in the far recesses of Supernatural’s untouched history, causing fans to anticipate a grand entrance for him as God or an equally impressive entity once he eventually returned to the show.
They wasted it on this. I wonder why Chuck cares about a high school musical director with a tendency to misinterpret and reimagine his work. I was almost expecting Chuck's lawyer to step out from behind him and hand her a cease and desist order. Now that would've been a great twist.
Kudos: “That is some of the worst fan fiction that I have ever heard. I mean seriously, where did you find this garbage?”
The only thing I liked in the episode was this line from Marie. After Dean gave her a rundown of seasons 6-10 she called it as she saw it: the worst fanfiction ever made. Can’t say I disagree, especially listening to Dean’s summary and realizing how silly and disjointed the post Kripke years truly were. Marie was not even told the whole story. Dean left out the part when he tricked his brother into accepting an angel into his body, and the part he threw a helpless Castiel out of the bunker. I wonder how she would have reacted to those OOC moments of Carver’s masterpiece.
Some people were disappointed Misha was excluded from this episode. I'm happy he wasn't there. At least his legacy isn't tainted by this train wreck. I don't care how thrilling it might feel to some fans to have their subculture turned inside out on the show. I hear Tumblr was in party mode and I don’t understand why. There's an artful way to break the fourth wall (Monster at the End of This Book, The French Mistake,) then there's driving a bulldozer through it, crashing into the crowd and over them, then putting it in reverse and driving over them again. That's what happened here.
Feel free to leave your thoughts in the comments. In fact I beg you to do so because I need as much vent space as I could get and I can’t reply to my own article. Even if you liked the episode and think I'm absolutely wrong, please tell me about it. Maybe you'd be able to change my mind, though judging by how many times I had to stop the show to keep from throwing up in my mouth, I highly doubt that would be possible.
Note: I will not post a Gripe Review for next week’s episode. I will be out of town, and it looks like another awful filler so nothing of great import will be lost.
Tessa
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twitter.com/tessa_marlene
For the love of God. You watch a TV Show just for a Gripe Review??? That episode was absolutely perfect!!! Almost everyone in the fandom loved it! Supernatural means family and this episode showed us how much this means to us. And to them. We want 200 more episodes. Why are wasting your time in something you don't even like? And write a review?
ReplyDeletePS: In imdb, fan fiction is the best episode of Supernatural for the moment...
Completely disagree with you on every single gripe you have. I knew this will be either love or hate type of episode, and I loved it. It was full of love and heart, and I don't want even dissect it to argue with your opinion - that meal had to be swallowed in full without reading the ingredients list. IMHO. It was an outstanding episode as a hole, and I am glad I decided to give it a try despite all hesitations I had after watching previews.
ReplyDeleteBravo!!! I completely agree with every word you wrote. I am still trying to figure out WHY I actually watched it. The only part of the show I agreed with was when Dean said he wanted to throw up. I felt that same nausea.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with you, at all. I am a fan since I started watching almost ten years. I am not a hardcore fan, but I absolutley loved this episode. Reading this review it feels like you personally feel offended by it. At some point its perhaps watching a series, if you don't like it anymore. Nothing wrong with it.
ReplyDeleteThis episode
ReplyDeletemarks the one and only occasion when the fourth wall was truly broken on Supernatural. It was the bitch face Jensen/Dean gave to the audience
after Destiel was mentioned for the first time on the show.
Almost everyone in the fandom loved it!
ReplyDeleteNot true!
Also you didn't give me a reason why you thought it was so good. I gave you seven why I thought it was terrible.
Bye then. Watch something else.
ReplyDeleteThe true is this episode has the highest ranking out of 200 on IMDB. Statistically it should tell you something.
ReplyDeleteNo. Statistics means they took a random sample from a large group of people and ran a study on them, interpolating the results and coming to a conclusion. Even then, "A lot of people liked it," doesn't equal "it is high quality." A lot of people also liked 'Here Comes Honey Boo Boo' or 'The Jersey Shore.'
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't look for a purpose of sam and dean being there. it was supposed to be nod to the fans, special episode. So its really not that big of a deal that it didnt have any connection to mythology. And i dont get that idea that it was supposed to be stab to the female fans. Marie wasnt stupid or something like that, she was pretty normal, just fascinated with the books so it wasnt anything bad. So even though i dont like plans for this season (cause seriously, 'we are going to explore mark of cain" doesnt sound encouraging, its not enough for a whole season for me) i think they did good work with this week episode.
ReplyDeleteCastiel looked at the camera in The Man Who Would be King, Metatron in Meta Fiction. And Dean was bothered by everything, not just Destiel.
ReplyDeleteMarie wasnt stupid or something like that, she was pretty normal, just fascinated with the books so it wasnt anything bad. She was the embodiment of an obsessed fan taken to the extreme. Like Becky, there was a no respect in presenting her character, just mockery, and it makes me sad so many fans fell for it.
ReplyDeleteI believe I can help you out by giving you another perspective to look at this episode from. You may not agree with it, and it did take me some thought to get to how I view it after the second watch, but it will at least be a different viewpoint. It's going to take me a while to put it in words, but I'll put it together and post when I am done.
ReplyDeleteThank you. Finally someone who is willing to discuss, not just say 'everyone loved it, why didn't you?'
ReplyDeleteI am not claiming its high quality, what is very subjective when in comes to TV show. And yes, ranking on a major TV website is as close for statistical sample as you can get within TV fandom. Everyone can go and downrate it, including you. Sawyer Orestis claimed majority of SPN fandom liked the episode. You said its not true. At least you cant support your statement with any kind of number.
ReplyDeleteIt's not fair to fans who stayed with and supported a show for a decade to have to abandon it without experiencing the ending just because a bunch of yahoos took hold of it and are dragging it into the ground. I hope you note that before you tell people to go away.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Supernatural the only show on here that has a hate review? I mean seriously this is long past nitpicking now, it's hate watching and when you are at the point of hate watching it's time to stop watching.
ReplyDeleteIm sorry but this episode was one of the most brilliant in Supernaturals entire run. I've been a fan for ten years since it started and I felt the show lost its way in series 6 and 7 and I gave up on it until the end of season 8 when I was hooked again because I could never let go of Sam and Dean but I didn't like the stories in 6,7 and 8. But after that I fell back into the show hard again and this episode the 200th had everything and more that I could have hoped for. Its been 5 years waiting to see the amulet come back and it did and granted it wasn't in the way we expected but the meaning of it was so heartfelt that I wouldn't have asked for anything different. The 200th ep made fun of the show itself with Dean rushing through what had happened to them since Swan Song (bad fanfiction lol!) but the thing that stood out the most for me was the love and the thanks that was evident in every second. This episode was for us the fans and Im telling you I was the most worried and skeptical about this episode I wasn't looking forward to it at all I thought it would be silly and ruin the show but no, for a meta episode (and Im not a fan of them really) it was inspired and genuinely moved me at the end I was in tears. Every moment I hoped for came back it made me remember how I felt watching the early seasons and more than that, it showed us what the heart of Supernatural is and thats Sam and Dean. This episode had everything it made me laugh cry squee and feel genuinely so so proud to be a fan and Im glad I didn't give up the show I'm glad I came back because this episode restored my faith in the show I fell in love with all those years ago. I loved it and yet I was probably the person who would have been the one to dislike it the most but it turned out to be one of those episodes that come around so rarely but they just make you feel something they just mean that bit more they're special and I only have a handful like that from all the TV shows I watch and it happened with 'Fan Fiction' and I'm never forgetting how it made me feel. So yeah, those of us that loved this ep are going to enjoy and love and appreciate it because it was for us anyway, it was FOR THE FANS.
ReplyDeleteI don't put numbers on any claims unless those numbers are statistically sound. I'm assuming this Sawyer Orestis you talk of has statistically sound numbers or else his claim is as legitimate as mine.
ReplyDeleteStill I have a fair amount of knowledge of psychology and generally when a group of people really like something they go seek out places to vote for it. Those who didn't care for it don't. So no, I didn't go on IMDB to vote this episode down. I sat down and wrote all the reasons I thought it was garbage.
IMHO there is nothing to discuss. Like Ginger said, it depends on perspective. You took it too serious.
ReplyDeleteExcuse me? That' s a little snarky there. I happen to agree with this review as well. Some of us
ReplyDeletehave loved and appreciated the show for what it WAS in the Kripke years. As that sentence said...an iconic TV show with some of the best writing on the air. Post-Kripke it has been fighting to keep that standard up and, sadly, losing the battle more often than not. With this episode it was as if Carver and the writers just gave up. I'm surprised Jared and Jensen were even willing to go along with it. It was the 200th episode...a milestone moment...it should have been a truly kick ass episode, instead they just gave us an homage to one tremendously over-wrought percentage of the fan base. To me it was just plain sad.
But as fans of the show we, too, have a right to discuss our opinions without being summarily dismissed. So with all due respect, if you take that much offense to these opinions then please, read something else.
I find this comment completely unwarranted. If you liked it, say why and give some thought into that why.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the "Supernatural means family," I almost puke every time I hear that comment, and you know why? Because Kim Manners was the one who really understood and JA picked up on it real quick) that the combination of supernatural background with a family drama foreground was the magic that lit up the show - along with a grainy, gritty shooting style, the blue-collar vs white-collar (gut feeling vs intellect) approach between the brothers and the overarching epic and ominous struggle between human good and all-powerful corruption.
That all left with Kripke. Gamble wanted Sam to cry and Dean parked off somewhere. Carver wants an ensemble cast and have the Winchesters explore their teenage 'feelings,' the network wants more women (young to fit in with the rest of the CW target audience), Glass wants lots of kids, Thompson wants Charlie, Klein is learning her craft, Dabb was sidelined on a very poor pilot, and we've got two new ones whose track record hasn't been the best (Mannequin 3, anyone?). To adopt every one-time character the show introduces as 'family,' undermines the whole concept of show.
You want to know why I still watch? I will tell you. Because the J2s give everything they have each and every week; but, mostly, because I admire JA's acting talent and don't think I'll see much of him after the show ends. An example: I thought Fan Fiction was a study in facial acting, with Dean reacting through JA's facial expressions to all of the little teen girls' misconceptions (or head canon) about what the show is about and who the Winchesters are. I don't know if Thompson intended that or not, since I find all of these writers live in the same emotional place as the young teens in this episode, but I do know that JA got that across to this viewer.
I liked the episode, but do see your point. Personally, I don't blame Dean for being upset over walking into a high school musical version of his life, though. He's always been touchier about the SPN books than Sam and now he's looking at actors playing the most important people in his life and getting everything wrong. I would've been appalled, too. 14 year olds are reenacting the deaths of his loved ones for fun. To me, it was more surprising that he was bobbing his head along to the song of his mom being roasted on the ceiling.
ReplyDeleteAs for Destiel, the show always wants to have it both ways. They like to push farther and father and then act surprised when someone calls them on it. I honestly have no idea what their intentions were with this episode and I doubt they do, either.
Like I said, I did like the episode overall, though. The beginning shot of Dean with the car and the close-ups of the boys during the COWS number were particularly striking for me. And the poncho guy made me laugh.
Why is Supernatural the only show on here that has a hate review?a) Because I can only write one gripe review for one spoiled show and I chose my favorite, Supernatural.
ReplyDeleteb) I hated this episode, not the whole show.
1) A love letters for the fans
ReplyDelete2) Epic Supernatural songs, and carry on my wayward son.
3) Perfect title card
4) Samulet is back
5) carry on my wayward son
5) Chuck is back and it was shocking!
6) The episode was like a script from the fans. Everything we love. Like ships and reactions, Adam, breaking the forth wall by Jensen, Kim Manners, Epic quotes, brothers bond
7) carry on my wayward son
8) The purpose of the episode was not a great monster. The episode was a huge celebration. It was special for us, and for them. They all said to us "thank you" for the support.
9) carry on my wayward son (oh the tears...)
10) The scene with Impala was perfect (nice VFX btw)
Almost everyone in the fandom? I think not. Tessa is not alone in responding negatively to this one, not by a long shot. There are quite a few of us who were sickened by this one. You're right about one thing...Supernatural does mean family, it has always been a celebration of the power of family and of humanity. I saw ZERO representation of that in this episode, unless you want to count Sam and Dean sharing a meaningful glance in the Impala as they drove off at the end.
ReplyDeleteBelieve me, I'd love 200 more episodes as well, but not if the show is going to be reduced to this kind of dreck. Ever since Kripke stepped down, it's as if the writers have forgotten what this show is REALLY about and how to write the characters as they were created...the whole reason we fell in love with them in the first place. If they really wanted to make this episode a tribute to the fans, they'd have given us back the characters we love...the show we love...THAT would have been the kick ass 200th episode Supernatural deserves. Instead we were given this...a sad day indeed.
Have to agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph regarding Dean's reaction.
ReplyDeleteWell, every poll i've seen these days for the 200th episode says that for the most supernatural fans was a perfect episode. Check spoilertv too ;)
ReplyDeleteGood summary, although I haven't watched it. Don't worry about feeling out of place. There were many people who despised the concept and rightfully so.
ReplyDeleteObviously, you have a right to your opinion so I won't spoil that for you but I do just have to say that, for me at least, that wasn't a "heartfelt" way to bring back the amulet, nor the way I wanted to see it done. That was a major part of the canon that was just thrown away, both literally and figuratively, and bringing it back like this, for me, was a slap in the face more than a tribute.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think Metatron truly broke the fourth wall because later on in 9.18 Meta Fiction it was revealed that he had been talking to Castiel. (“What makes a story work?”)
ReplyDeleteThe moment from 6.20 The Man Who Would Be King came close but it was revealed that Castiel was talking to God.
And Dean was bothered by everything, not just Destiel.
However, the only time when Jensen/Dean felt it was necessary to look straight at the camera was after Marie told him about Destiel subtext. First he was face to face with Marie and then he turned his head very deliberately. He wasn’t looking at anyone else except the viewer.
Personally, I don't blame Dean for being upset over walking into a high school musical version of his life, though. He's always been touchier about the SPN books than Sam and now he's looking at actors playing the most important people in his life and getting everything wrong. I agree. That's why I said I would have understood if he'd been mad at their portrayal of Bobby or Mary. But he got upset over Sam and Dean "standing close" (so what? Brothers have a perimeter around each other?) and Dean and Castiel actors hugging, even after he was told they were a couple in real life. While the initial outrage was in character for him, the reasons behind it once again took us out of the actual universe and back into fandom parody lane.
ReplyDeleteAs for Destiel, the show always wants to have it both ways. They like to push farther and father and then act surprised when someone calls them on it. I honestly have no idea what their intentions were with this episode and I doubt they do, either.
Took the words out of my mouth. They made their message very clear IMO. To me it was "We don't want it and in fact, we're going to wipe every trace of it from the show by setting Cas up on his own journey." Fine. I respect that. Except when they do something like this, and we're back to square one.
I may have enjoyed the beginning shots of the boys more if they hadn't been ruined by what came next. At this point I wished what came next was a lame MotW episode even. Anything but this.
What I liked about it (and you didn't get, Marlene) was the fact that the Dean-Cas actresses were in a relationship - subtext - which is something the audience gets. It doesn't/didn't matter that the "show" did not "think" they were putting it in there, it was THERE.
ReplyDeleteIt seemed to me it was an admission that what they think was on screen was not what the fans were getting. If they were NOT putting "Destiel" out there, they were unobservant mooks.
I enjoyed the show, it felt so gentle and loving and sweet to me.
I really felt they WERE acknowledging that the "subtext" was part of canon. That made me happy.
But what I really wanted (and was not in there at ALL) was a NUN to show up and just give everybody what for.
Kind of like "the penguin" in The Blues Brothers. Everybody was scared of Sister Mary Whatever-Her-Name-Was.
As a person who enjoys your reviews I am so sorry you did not enjoy this episode the way that I did. I DID feel it was a love letter to me personally.
And where do YOU stand on the bring-back-Adam issue?
I read your review most every week and usually find things that I agree with but, with this review, your credibility went right out the window. I will no longer waste my time reading reviews from someone who simply enjoys griping for the sake of griping. You really ought to find something more productive to do unless griping is your main passion in life. If it is, I feel sorry for you.
ReplyDeleteThank you. Sometimes I feel there are two sets of Supernatural fans. Those of us who are traditionalists, still clinging to what made this show unique and remarkable in its earlier seasons, and the new generation, those who came after the head-scratcher crowd took over. Maybe we're watching and interpreting the show on two different frequencies. I just don't get what Carver is doing but he must feel he's doing it right because he keeps doing it.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with this review and yes I know for a fact that there were people who did not enjoy this episode in any way but sadly they as usual are told to shut up about it and I see that trend continue here as well. This is part of the reason why I decided to become detached from this fandom because apparently you don't have the right to utter the fact that you did not like an episode or be critical about the content of the show.
ReplyDeleteWell I am sorry you hated it but apparently you are part of minority. Go and see online. And SPN viewers are not usually very shy to rank episodes low. It is as representative is anything other survey over there.
ReplyDeleteIt makes sense for someone who, after reading one review she disagreed with, decides to give up on the whole series of reviews, to tell me to give up on a show I've been watching for ten years just because there was one episode I found absolutely worthless.
ReplyDelete"I really felt they WERE acknowledging that the "subtext" was part of canon."
ReplyDeleteAnd that's what I was waiting for...people (and I'm sure there are many more than just you) to step up and say..."See, they acknowledge all the subtext we've been reading into the show, therefore it's legitimate". In fact, that thought is probably what made me cringe the most about this episode. Sigh!
This was definitely one of my least favorite of the meta episodes as well, but I actually liked it overall. A number of the complaints mentioned in the review are valid, but I feel that some of them take it too far.
ReplyDeleteFor example, the "Sam shilling". I never got the feeling that this was meant to mean anything deeper than what it already did. It was just a joke that Marie preferred Sam to the brother she was talking to. No fandom poking or deprecating there at all.
But what I really enjoyed about this episode (apart from Marie claiming Seasons 6-10 to be bad fan fiction) was that it gave us a look inside the minds of the writers to see what all they hadn't forgotten about (and perhaps what they had). For example, this episode told us that the writers haven't forgotten about Adam, the amulet, tulpas, etc., despite their long absence from the show. (However, it also showed some of the writers' memories' potential failings by way of the girls knowing the Winchester's last names, Chuck writing himself into the books, etc., though Season 9 does later say Chuck continued the books past Season 3's events and that Becky put them up online, but this episode suggests they were actually published. There's also the fact that Marie and her stage manager identify Sam and Dean as a Bobby and Rufus combo even though the show never showed them hunting together until Season 6, which wouldn't have been in any of the books...)
Still, I enjoyed this episode better than the past few even if did leave a lot to be desired. At least it didn't punch any plot holes into the show like The French Mistake did (and I really liked that episode).
Well, nice to be downgraded to dumb new generation crowd who has no clue. I watch this show from the day one and I am very old generation. Glad you can validate your opinion by putting others fans down. Best regards.
ReplyDeleteYou are perfectly entitled to your opinion but please, please, PLEASE do not bring the memory of Kim Manners into this...he doesn't deserve to be dragged through this dreck too!
ReplyDeleteA "love letter" to the fans...and yet, to some of us it felt more like a kick to the gut.
I'll let you in on my perspective. I don't really see it as two generations with different point of views but a wide area that is fragmented with groups sticking to the "two bros nothing else" mentality, then the people who focused more on the cinematography and horror aspect of the earlier days and dislike the bubble pop atmosphere that started to affect the show in season 7. We also have the big mythology (4,5) appreciation, and that's where I personally see myself in. And everything after season 8 (the DeanCas and Deanthebuttler phase so to speak) things started to go down the drain. We have groups of people who don't really like to analyze a show that deeply and would rather stick to their 40 minutes of entertainment a week. And groups that discuss this show on a 24/7 basis. Of course these groups will somehow clash in terms of what interests them the most. But what this show and all fandoms have in common is that people are violently protective of something to the point where it gets difficult to discuss something that you start to hate. But that hate isn't just hate for the sake of it, but disappointment with something that you were invested in. Same with me. And that's why I'd say it's good to disengage or find places where you can discuss it without getting shot down by overprotective people.
ReplyDeleteI agree, actually, with everything.
ReplyDeleteStill I wanna say that three songs out of four were something hillarious. I cannot understand how Robbie (who wrote quite a nice script for 9x16 btw) could do that! As far as I know, he was the only one who wrote lyrics for those songs. That was terrible. Especially "I'm big brother Dean". "Carry on my wayward son" was good. I was a single girl tear at that moment...
Anyway, that's a pitty that you won't be able to write a review next week 'cause 10x06 isn't a MOTW episode. But the promo says the opposite thing.
Thanks to both of you but I have no need to check the statistics as spoilertv or anywhere else...I had no doubt there would be a large percentage of people liking this show...they're the people who were represented on screen, so naturally they are going to love it. I just felt the need, while this reviewer was getting skewered for stating her opinion, that she is not alone...there are some of us who felt her pain.
ReplyDeleteI think Veronika you just nailed it right there.
ReplyDeleteTessa Marlene, I hope this isn't personal: I liked the episode very much.
ReplyDeleteI understand how much you disliked it.
So I could understand what you like/liked about the show could you perhaps name/discuss an episode you loved? That might make it easier for me to understand your point of view here.
I found the episode so gentle in its ribbing of fandom, I did not find it disrespectful at all. I liked Dean very much for saying, you have your reality, I have my reality of what is going on.
But again, I respect how you feel about this.
BTW, I know you felt the show was harsh on Becky. BUT in REAL LIFE that delusional *itch should have been in jail. Can you imagine ANY show having a female character roofied and tied to a bed and NOBODY noticing that was assault, kidnapping, and attempted rape? (They did say pretty openly that Sam never actually "put out" for Becky.) If Becky was a guy, she was a rapist. That was ugly. (I can't believe you hated this more than Season 7 Time for the Wedding. That was reprehensible and the attitude of the writers towards that whole plot was disgusting.)
For Kim, I meant his quote ;)
ReplyDeleteI understand that it's impossible for all people to like the episode. It's just impossible
Was that in the script? Or was it Jensen?
ReplyDeleteEither way my outrage is justified. I explained what happened during JIB con. I myself was a fan of Destiel before that. I left the whole thing behind, stopped tweeting about it, stopped posting and following it on Tumblr, stopped voting for it on polls, when I realized the actor himself was so ungrateful for the support. Like I said, it's his right. But the message was received. There was no more reason to put it in this mud pile of episode and rub it in the fans' faces - who in reality didn't have any menacing intention other than loving a pairing, just as the Sam and Dean fans well, love Sam and Dean - again. They all hate Destiel? Fine. Got it. Now stop talking about it and move on or else risk embarrassing yourselves just as I felt they did (Jensen included) in this episode.
I guess I made the mistake even to try to read this. It is the same situation as most of the time. "Spewing hate" and then they say the others are "The bullies" I saw this episode awesome and btw so have others from 1-10 years. Even the long term watchers. Mostly I have seen the "spew hate" from those that are Sam, Dean, or ship turned. Calling the writers, directors, cast in worst names possible because "they don't see the same as them or they don't get what they want". I will actually make a stand and will not even try to read these reviews because of the hate and rudeness.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't get your point crossed btw. It gets you ignored pretty quickly. Maybe you should switch to other show that you can enjoy... Who knows. I rather be the idiot that likes the show even if I don't see myself us one because the show is great.
I said poll for the 200th episode, not the entire show. There are episodes that I didn't like, for example 9x12 Sharp Teeth.
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU!! Same here. It's why I stopped posting here. Just wasn't worth it anymore. But this episode was just bad enough that made me feel the need to speak up in defense of those not afraid to admit to its crappiness.
ReplyDeleteIf that is aimed at me, that's not what I meant. I said two different frequencies. I didn't mean either is dumber than the other. Just that we may not understand each other because we're watching the show from two different perspectives.
ReplyDeleteThat was my typo...I meant to say "liking this episode". Sorry.
ReplyDeletePerfect analysis Veronika. I agree.
ReplyDeleteWe also have the big mythology (4,5) appreciation, and that's where I personally see myself in.
This is me too, though I liked the first 3 seasons and parts of 6 too. But the glory days of the show for me were those two seasons. And I just got a coworker started on the show based on this selling point.
I tell myself again and again that I should stop watching. But I need to find out how it ends, and I don't want to be confused by the plot when I watch the ending. So I keep watching, but it's not the same show.
But what this show and all fandoms have in common is that people are violently protective of something to the point where it gets difficult to discuss something that you start to hate. But that hate isn't just hate for the sake of it, but disappointment with something that you were invested in. Same with me. And that's why I'd say it's good to disengage or find places where you can discuss it without getting shot down by overprotective people.
This place was supposed to serve as that, and I hope the readers will maintain it as such and don't start sniping at people who disagree with them no matter which side of the fence they come from. It's a show we all love (or used to love) so our criticism also comes from the heart.
Yes I can understand. I get that the majority liked it but there were also people who did not like it and here we have one review to represent people who did not enjoy the episode and I see people once again going defensive and telling people to shut up or stop watching etc, it is the same repetitive cycle I have witnessed one too many times.
ReplyDeleteAMEN!!!
ReplyDeleteMy first reaction upon seeing that moment was that it had been a very intentional acting choice. Later I got a confirmation when I learned that Jensen had tweeted:
ReplyDeleteHey all you "FanFic" writers out there...that look into the camera wasn't scripted. Just sayin. #WinkWink #Supernatural200thEpisode
and Robbie Thompson had tweeted:
Dean's look to camera... that's 100% all @JensenAckles! Kudos #Supernatural #unscriptedhilarity
I LIKED that Dean felt at home in the bunker. It also showed that he had such low expectations of life that the bunker was like his perfect home. I saw institutional walls with crap colored paint. He saw his own room.
ReplyDeleteHe wanted to next, he wanted to cook. He felt bad that he had failed in Trial and Error to kill the hellhound. He believed in the mission. He accepted that Sam had to do it because Crowley would've called back all hellhounds after they killed the one.
AND I totally believe if the situation was reversed Dean would NEVER have given up on closing the Gates of Hell because Sam asked him (the reverse in Sacrifice). He would've said, Sammy, live a good life and think of me every once in a while. And died.
Every time somebody says they "need to address" something (like The Purge speech, for the latest biggest stink bomb in the room) I think of my own family (which I guess is what they are aiming for): we have in the past said the most horrible things to each other, but then, it's ALL GONE and we don't discuss it again, we just go on, we let the whole thing go.
I am sure some families apologize to each other, meaningfully. What I am saying in MY family we didn't need to, we just went on.
Your feelings on the "plotlines" for the recent seasons are well-thought out and of course make sense. Every show has an overarching theme or villain or whatever for every season. Some seasons I like more than others. But that does not mean I don't find things I really appreciate in every season.
Give you one example: Azazel was the "big bad" seasons 1-2; the writers said "every year a bigger villain" BUT for me Lillith was just a punky little *itch but AZAZEL was the one who set the plot in motion AND was loyal to HIS DEATH to Lucifer (well, Lillith was TOO but her loyalty basically lay in her just DYING in Lucifer Rising). I found Azazel a much more compelling "villain" than Lillith AND I felt he was much more psychologically powerful than even Lucifer who was written so petulantly and like a baby with super powers. I enjoyed Lucifer's portrayal, was always glad when he showed up, but the childishness of the writing stayed with me.
BUT everybody has a different opinion, right?
Thank you for the response and taking the time to list these. I try my best to tell you why I see all of it differently.
ReplyDeleteA love letters for the fans
Was Marie's character really any depiction we could be proud of? Am I wrong to think it was more a ridicule than a love letter?
Epic Supernatural songs, and carry on my wayward son.I fast forwarded through it all, couldn't take the amount of cringe. This show used to be about Classic Rock. Now we're listening to high school musicals.
Perfect title cardWhy ? To me it was like a monster vomited all the title cards at once. That's when I started to feel nauseated.
Samulet is backI give you that one. Though Dean didn't want to take it at first.
Chuck is back and it was shocking!See Gripe #7, and no it wasn't. I saw it coming the moment they showed his sleeve.
The episode was like a script from the fans. And that's a good thing? Last time I checks inexperienced people weren't put in charge of scripts, for exactly the same reasons you mentioned. It becomes an unstructured mess.
The episode was a huge celebration. It was special for us, and for them. They all said to us "thank you" for the support. By making a spectacle of everything that we loved privately about the show? Funny way of saying thank you if you ask me.
The scene with Impala was perfect I think I was knocked unconscious at that point. But I'm sure anything that didn't have to do with that abomination of school musical was perfect in this episode.
Sorry, I don't understand. It was a deliberate decision to have actress Cas and actress Dean be a couple.
ReplyDeleteThat is CANON for this episode. To me it also acknowledges that anybody who see/saw SHOW Cas and SHOW Dean as more than just good buds were absolutely not delusional.
I am not arguing here. It is so interesting to me when two (or more) people can see the same thing and see it so differently. I thought it was respectful and gentle (this isn't what we were going for, this is what you got) and appreciated that.
No one is allowed to tell anyone to shut up on this review. I've said it from the beginning when I started the trend that the Gripe Review is the place for those who still like a mature, healthy argument about the show, no matter which side they come from. I won't tell anyone who liked the episode and disagrees with me to not comment. I would appreciate it if those who comment also refrain from telling people whom they disagree with to go away.
ReplyDeleteFeel free to say what's on your mind here. This is the space for all fans who are fed up with polarized fandom environments. This is where you're allowed to speak your mind, whatever might be on it.
I don't know wasn't the dean and sam cosplayers - gay and in a relationship in the real ghostbusters? Did that make wincest canon (LOL - no). It just seems another call back to a better episode. I wouldn't hold out much hope for it having any true meaning. If they really meant to put some subtext into destiel than they would have MC in the episode to connect the subtext to the overall storyline. The fact he wasn't is important. It did seem a more condescending than it needed to be. You have your version we have ours - dude we know. Or at least most of us know.
ReplyDeleteYou think that was a chastisement of the fans? Read my comment above. Jensen has already made his point. He now seems obsessed with the subject and that's embarrassing for a veteran actor of his caliber to care so much about a fandom made concept.
ReplyDeleteAlternatively it could mean Jensen felt exactly how I did about this episode at that moment. The Destiel part was when I paused the episode and had to take some time to calm nerves and stomach. Maybe he felt the same considering poor guy had to act all that crap.
I was not looking forward to this ep from the moment I heard there was going to be a "musical-ish" ep, but I was pleasantly surprised. I thought Robbie Thompson did a good job of walking the line between spoofing the show and the fans without being disrespectful.
ReplyDeleteI can't understand how so many fans missed the big picture regarding fans and the show. Marie was a fan fiction writer. She wrote fanon including shipping, and yeah, that made Dean incredibly uncomfortable. That look that "Dean" gave the camera was improvised by Jensen btw. It was Jensen commenting on shipping. But by the end, Dean admitted that he found Marie's fan fiction educational. It gave him a different perspective of his own life and his relationship with Sam. Although the girls initially rejected the idea that Sam and Dean were the "real" Winchesters, Marie clearly realized the truth when she called Dean by his name. When she tried to give him the amulet, he said he didn't need a symbol to remind him of his feelings for his brother. Marie made him take it because she understood that he wasn't the one who needed it. Sam did because he needed to know that Dean has faith in him. The boys watch the BM scene with his fictional counterpart saying them together against the world and says, "What she said." Then the boys are together in the Impala, Dean hangs the prop amulet on the rearview, which now symbolizes their commitment and loyalty to one another.
And when Chuck said, "Not bad," he wasn't commenting on Marie's writing, the shipping or any of that. He commented on what had been achieved in bringing the boys closer together again -- "They chose family."
In the end, "Fan Fiction" recognizes the importance of fan fiction and the role it plays in the lives of fans, but I think it subtly speaks to the separation of canon and fanon. There's the "real" story that is dramatized on the show, and we don't have to always like it (lord knows I don't, generally speaking, fu Carver), and then there's fan fiction/headcanon, which they don't have to like or agree with. Maybe that's what some fans find objectionable.
I really felt they WERE acknowledging that the "subtext" was part of canon. That made me happy.
ReplyDeleteThat's the very reason I hated it. Read gripe #4. It's like they are pulling and pushing this thing in two different directions on regular basis. First we have Jensen at JIB con saying there was no subtext and that we're all delusional losers. Then there's making Dean and Cas' actors gay and in love, then there's Jensen's look into the camera, then there's a ballad from Cas to Dean in the play...
Stop it. Just stop. I'm over it. So should Jensen, Robbie and the showrunners. Destiel fans these days make me sad. These people don't deserve our support, and it vexes it that they only have to throw a smelly bone like this to get it back. If I'm acknowledged as a valid viewer of the show with a valid view point, however avant gard it is, I need that acknowledgement to be with respect, not resentment, or mockery. If I'm not going to get that respect I want no acknowledgement. I want them to forget and just move on.
I did get
ReplyDeletethe sense that he was addressing the fans because he could’ve played it
differently if he had wanted to roll his eyes at the writers with the fans (maybe he could’ve done something like shaken his head.)
Well, to me both episodes were acknowledgements that the viewers (like me!) who see this stuff aren't delusional, aren't filling in the blanks with personal craziness.
ReplyDeleteThe actors, in their highly individual ways, ARE acting out a love story. You can call the story family, you can call in romance, you can even call it Incest OR god help me inter-species sex (because that's what Dean and Castiel ARE): I don't feel offended if they put "something" out there, I pick up on it. And THEN they say, oh no, they're brothers (well, duh) or he's an ANGEL and is junkless or whatever.
I just don't want people from the show to act like I am delusional. THEY did put the Destiel stuff out there knowingly, and for the Wincest, that is just how I happen to see them (these guys are so screwed up nobody else could possibly understand them, which is why Sam lies to everybody he gets involved with).
I don't mind being the only one who sees it that way at all.
I kind of agree with you but Jensen never said you were delusional losers - just that's not the way he played Dean. Depends on how you look at it. If you see if for the message you have your story and we will have ours then I think it's kind of a gentle way to say enjoy shipping but shipping and show are separate. But given the above comment that message wasn't received. I think they kept the episode to just J2 for that reason. There is no tie of the episode to the overall storyline other than Sam and Dean as they were the only 'real characters' presented. It was I think a very deliberate choice.
ReplyDeleteHe now seems obsessed with the subject and that's embarrassing for a
ReplyDeleteveteran actor of his caliber to care so much about a fandom made
concept.
Maybe if fans didn't badger him about it and call him a homophobe for not supporting it, he wouldn't be so annoyed about it. I'm not sure how he is the one obsessed when he didn't write the script. He said he was uncomfortable with the script when he got it because it distorted certain aspects of the characters, and it was only the directing that made it okay for him.
Very nice analysis. Thank you for this comment. I can see now what those who liked it saw in it though to me it was too much of an anvil to the head, even the amulet part. Like any other old Supernatural fan I wished it would come back. But not like this. Not calling it Samulet (I still cringe at them actually putting that, and Destiel, in the show,) and more like something that flowed with the mythology of the season to give it the spotlight it deserved.
ReplyDeleteThat look that "Dean" gave the camera was improvised by Jensen btw. It was Jensen commenting on shipping.
Another anvil to the head. We already know Jensen hates shipping. That is why shipping should not have been put in this episode and he should not have been forced to deliver a performance on it. Let's leave something so controversial and prone to hurting people's feelings to the side, why won't we?
It may not be in the way Jensen is playing it, I'll buy that. He recognizes he is dealing with a supernatural being of the highest order, and his love and devotion comes out to many in a romantic fashion.
ReplyDeleteBUT when the writers put into the damn script "the angel who's in love with you" or the ever-popular "he was your boyfriend first" they KNOW what they are doing. And that is OK too. The idea is that DEAN knows it's not romantic (at least not on his part) it is familial which to Dean is the highest love. But when Balthazar and Meg said that they were needling Dean with the idea of his and Castiel's love being "profane" when it was REALLY the highest love of all "familial." All boils down to Dean's attitude.
Of course, I don't know what they were really trying to do, I am as ignorant as anybody else here.
I just have MY Supernatural.
I just worry that you will take one throw away moment and have it hold more meaning that it has. If it really meant something Misha Collins as Castiel would have been there to tie in the subtext. His reaction as Cas would be acknowledging the subtext. With only one half of the pair it becomes just a fan thing they will not have to address again. tessa is right they try and have their cake and eat it to -boo on them.
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting interpretation. My interpretation was that by making the couple playing Dean and Cas lovers in real life, they were saying that fans read things into the show that are important to them. That's not a criticism. Everyone interprets fiction through the filter of their own perception. "Fan Fiction" was all about perception -- how Sam and Dean and Supernatural in general is perceived -- by those "living it" -- Sam and Dean-- and those viewing it -- the fans -- and those writing it -- the script writers on the one hand and the fan fiction writers on the other. There's many layers and many interpretations.
ReplyDeleteThe writers also put in references that Sam was Dean's wife (multiple times and at least once by bathazar) Should I hold wincest to be canon (NO) I can bet you don't hold those words to be the same value. the point of the episode is you can have your supernatural but it doesn't mean much to the show. And that I think Tessa is right it was unnecessary.
ReplyDeleteI really liked the message of the show. Cause it is sooo true. They actually gave a shout out to the FanFiction folk, and social media fans. I really respected that. It was a homage to the different ways fans of the fandom are fans.
ReplyDeleteIt is the same situation as most of the time. "Spewing hate" and then they say the others are "The bullies"Just for the record, I never call my critics bullies. Everyone is welcome to post their honest opinion in this comment section as long as it isn't disrespectful to another poster.
ReplyDeleteMostly I have seen the "spew hate" from those that are Sam, Dean, or ship turned.Please don't make assumption about people whose opinion is different from you. It is not helpful.
I will actually make a stand and will not even try to read these reviews because of the hate and rudeness.If you don't read, how can you take a stand? You won't be able to disagree with me and give your reasons for your disagreement, which is what I wished this comment was about.
That doesn't get your point crossed. I believe listing seven reasons why I didn't like an episode does get my point across pretty well.
I rather be the idiot that likes the show even if I don't see myself as one because the show is great. And that is what your review pointed.I never called anyone an idiot. I called the writing of the episode bad and you are welcome to disagree. I also said, "I hear Tumblr was in party mode and I don’t understand why," meaning I'm confused about it, not that I think those people are idiots. The assumption you make about me judging you is just that, an assumption.
Thank you for the comment and sorry this review gave you the wrong impression.
Why don't you try being mature and let people have their opinion?
ReplyDeleteExactly. I have bought every season of the show until Season 9. I have never, ever missed an episode and I and others are entitled to our opinion. As Deangirl said it should have been a kick ass episode and instead they do this? I am not nor ever will be a 'Fan Girl' and the way they portrait the fans was an insult.
ReplyDeleteSee I didn't see Marie as one of us, that is who I took Maeve as. She was fandom, quietly being bossed around by Marie and running the tech which is an important thing in how the 'show' worked. Because without fandom there wouldn't be a show, without the lights and scary noises and stage direction there would be no show either.
ReplyDeleteMarie - she's meant to be Carver. The Sam girl, who goes on about how Sam is selfless and makes Dean a woman for a few scenes. Kind of analogous to season 8 don't you think, how Carver kept on going how Sam was being mature, selfless and just looking out for Dean while Dean turned into a cook and a nursemaid for half a season, a typically female role. Plus, the story of this week was how she wasn't in control of the show, that Sam and Dean don't have control over the show of their lives and in a way Carver doesn't have control over the show, other people do, the network and probably Singer seeing how he has been there so long.
The monster of the week didn't go after Dean, with his obvious dissatisfaction with the show but who obviously familiar enough with it for Marie to listen to his bad 'fanfiction' of what happened after Swan song. He could have said enough to become a possible influence over the story on the stage and in so doing change that important first act. But she didn't she went after the people threatening to go to the Principal who would just shut it down while Marie was begging them not too.
Bravo! I couldn't agree more!
ReplyDeleteI thought it was cute for what it was. I didn't have the feelings you had. I personally would of made the monster with more gore/scary. I think SPN has bigger issues, like where the hell is the arc this season? Overall I give it a 7.5 rating. But I would prefer if they stay out of the meta.
ReplyDeleteHow do you feel that it now seems likely we will be getting a new show runner for season 11? (Carver has been announced as heading up a new show on NBC so I'm guessing we won't be having him. Also apologies if anyone else has asked this, I haven't read the comments yet haha).
ReplyDeleteI'm not crazy about the name "Samulet" either, but maybe like Sam, I'm more amused by the silliness of portmanteau names than other fans are.
ReplyDeleteOddly enough, this is the first season since Carver took over that hasn't felt weighed down by the mythology of the season. For me, "Fan Fiction" was a nice point to break from that. I thought it was appropriate that this historic episode reflect on the mythology of the series. Maybe it's just such a huge relief to finally have Sam and Dean not in some kind of ridiculously heightened conflict as they have been since Carver came on board.
Tessa, your review was spot on. I have to laugh at how rude some people can be because they can hide behind and alias online. Hang in there and don't let them bother you.
ReplyDeletePretty much the same reason I stopped posting.. but I felt I had come support this review.
ReplyDeleteReally? That's interesting. I vote that Kripke come back since he doesn't have a show at the moment. Carver's tenure has been less than stellar.
ReplyDeleteAre you sure about that. I thought they just said Carver was submitting a pilot for the next season. Given the odds of being picked up the odds aren't on Carver's side.
ReplyDeleteHow do you feel that it now seems likely we will be getting a new show runner for season 11?
ReplyDeleteReally? That's absolute news to me. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
To be honest I have mixed feelings. On one hand it's no secret that I absolutely disapproved of the direction Carver took the show. On the other hand it means we're going to get yet another person testing the waters with the show. It's not an easy job to take the reins of a 10 year old show with such a deep and expansive mythology, history, subculture and polarizing angles. I try to be positive but last time I cheered over Carver taking the helm from Gamble it horribly backfired on me.
I dont know how I feel about that cause next would be Adam Glass. Pick your poison. I would be shock if they bring in someone entirely new if he does leave. In let say Kripke does come back he would have the same writing staff. What improvement would that really be? People forget Kripke had a dream team on his side back in the day.
ReplyDeleteI think SPN has bigger issues, like where the hell is the arc this season?Good point and I completely agree that that is a much bigger issue than whatever happened in this episode. The individual Gripe Reviews however focus on the content of the episode of the week. I'll wait until the mid-season finale and if there is still no arc I will write about it in my "So Far" review.
ReplyDeleteI will have to check that out. I hope im wrong in something interesting happens.
ReplyDelete"Maybe if fans didn't badger him about it and call him a homophobe for not supporting it, he wouldn't be so annoyed about it". THANK YOU! I can't imagne how annoying it is for him. I received death threats from Destiel shippers once because I asked off hand how some episode made destiel canon. So I can only imagine how annoying it is for him, for someone who has spent so many years working on a character just so mass amounts of fans to scream "destiel" at him whenever they see him. It wouldn't surprise me if it makes him feel like he's worked so hard and people aren't even watching the show, and instead of talking about the show he just gets constant questions about some non canon fantasies.
ReplyDeleteGripe #6 - Sam shilling (?!)
ReplyDeleteI don’t understand why you find it so objectionable that Marie leaned toward Sam when it came to the characters in the Supernatural books. She clearly liked both brothers (the songs she wrote, making comments like “’Asshat?’ Nice. It's, uh, very Dean,” etc.) But most of all, she interacted with Dean throughout the case and wasn’t particularly drawn to the real Sam. Even after she figured out that the brothers were the real deal, she shared a moment with Dean but not with Sam.
Marie - she's meant to be Carver. The Sam girl, who goes on about how Sam is selfless and makes Dean a woman for a few scenesVery interesting interpretation. For a while I thought so too until I saw the holes in the analysis.
ReplyDelete1) She's also a Destiel fan. Not much of that in Carver's Supernatural.
2) Her work is mostly presented as fanfiction and interpretive adaptation, unless that was a stab at Carver too.
3) Chuck was there and half of his name is Carver.
In any case , if I watched the episode with your interpretation in mind, and a little booze, I'm sure it would have been easier to get through it.
I'm not objecting to her liking Sam, just wondering why that is a staple of the show that all extreme fangirls are into Sam. Is that an inside joke? A statement about the fandom? Or a statement about the show itself preferring Sam over Dean?
ReplyDeleteAnd again- we see what we want to see. I have a strong impression that majority of reviews so negative that there is no place out there for person who want just happy discussion. Lately it become so bad that anyone who still like show automatically downgraded to tasteless, obsessed, sexually frustrated teen who doesn't care about cinematography and good story.
ReplyDeleteSo go figure.
THANK YOU!!! Couldn't possibly agree more.
ReplyDeleteThe writers also put in references that Sam was Dean's wifeThey acknowledge the brotherly love as being on the extreme and no one disagrees with that. The problem with Dean/Cas is, the cast and crew outside the show act completely outraged and shocked when people hint at even a bromance between Dean and Cas, that their friendship is also extreme. Yet they put all those suggestions (and now an actual reference to Destiel along with a song) in the show. It's like they want to both have their cake and eat it.
ReplyDeleteKripke wont be back. He was mentioning in one of his interviews he works on 2 potential new projects And I agree- Kripke had very strong team of writers. People forgetting that it wasn't him only.
ReplyDeleteThis is part of the reason why I decided to become detached from this fandom because apparently you don't have the right to utter the fact that you did not like an episode or be critical about the content of the show.Same reason I left IMDB and all other mediums I used to post in. But feel free to voice your opinion here. This is supposed to be the judgment free zone and the fact that there's a giant review up there listing all the reasons why this episode in fact wasn't perfect should give you enough boost to disagree with the larger crowd.
ReplyDeleteThey are not assumptions as I have read them. And most that I have read have been name calling etc. to the writers, cast or what not. I didn't say all so this comes what I have read. Disagreement is actually fine by me. How it is shown out is the trouble. Like with your review but take it as my opinion as I can say it only my behalf.
ReplyDeleteI also read reviews that calmly point out why they didn't like the episode and I have hard time describing how. Because the few things at start can make me read the rest. Like I said. This review can be for some and I gave it a try. It is just not for me.
Example sentence: " It no longer is the iconic TV show it once was, but a chaotic fairground Carver and his writers trash on regular basis and use as a stage to parade their self-indulgent ownership of it by dragging its text, its fans and its legacy though mud."
I would highlight the last part with red that was the problem. "Trash" "dragg in mud" buuut as I see the episode totally differently (and see myself as a fan) it left me confused are we even watching the same show or episode...
Anyway, hope that helped.
Well it is called The Gripe Review. I never made a secret of the fact that the focus of these reviews were on the disappointing side of the show just because IMO, in Carver's era, those disappointments outnumber the good. But I have given the show praise when praise was due. Check out my review for 10.02
ReplyDeleteThank you for giving a reasoned explanation for the other side of the coin. It actually makes me feel better about the use of the amulet (though I still can't stand the term "Samulet") and the re-emergence of Chuck. But It still think it was a major mis-step overall and should not have been done.
ReplyDeleteAnd the other place where I actually disagree with Tessa's reactions is this continual harping on Jensen's reaction...he has a right to feel the way he does, even if that's anti the "shipping" fans. I'm sure he was cringing at having to bring that dreck to the screen, so I can't blame him for reacting.
Carver, not a Destiel fan. Maybe not openly but how much of the Dean and Cas relationship in the first half of season 8 could have been interpreted as a couple who had just gone through a bad breakup and gotten back together. What with Dean feeling responsible for things, Cas saying how he likes to watch Dean sleep etc etc.
ReplyDeleteAgree. Criticism can be respectful and polite. When someone call something I like "trash" and "garbage" I automatically go into protection mode. I have nothing against criticism, but overstepping the line can insult not only people who work on the show but also fans who watch it and still love it.
ReplyDeleteDing! It's the original writers who are sorely missing, not necessarily Kripke, though I certainly wouldn't mind seeing him come back. But even his vision would only mean so much if he didn't have the right people to bring it to life.
ReplyDeleteAnd I am not talking about this place. Its generally everywhere.
ReplyDeleteThose terms were not insults, they were her opinion and she has a right to state it as she sees fit...they were not directed any particular people, but at the episode itself.
ReplyDeleteDisagreement is actually fine by me. How it is shown out is the trouble.Well I do infuse my reviews with a bit of humor for entertainment value. But I doubt I ever disrespected the show runners, just criticized the way they ran the show. I know personally nothing about Carver and his writers, just what they do on the job that is trusted to them.
ReplyDeleteI didn't call anyone trash. I said they were "trashing" the show, which is how I see they treat it with their recent offerings. And to me they dragged the fandom through the mud in this episode. It's a phrase used when someone insults something to the extreme. Again no insult to the person that does the dragging.
Agree. Edlund was the last original writer left and that is why season 8 sucked slightly less than 9 and 10. When he left I knew something big was lost.
ReplyDeleteI once read a theory that the writers were used to teasing wincest that the idea of anyone taking a slash ship actually serious was foreign to them and they applied the hah hah stuff to destiel it shocked the heck out of them. They weren't prepared for anyone to take it seriously hence the backtrack. It makes sense because I don't really think they have a clue about the real nature of fandom. Looking at this episode it's so shallow and everything is a throw away. I was very disappointed but then i think the show should stay out of fandom.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't talking about the "actresses" being a couple...I was talking about the fact that, by even acknowledging the "shipping" and other extreme fan mindsets, the writers of the show were legitimizing them and to me, personally, that is cringe worthy. Sorry, no offense to people who would prefer images of incest of a Dean/Case romance to simple familial love, but I've never gotten that and never will and to me it takes away from what the show truly is, what made so many of us fall in love with it in the first place. Yes, the whole "you have your interpretation, we have ours" message was a nice gesture, I suppose, but to me it was just a major mis-step.
ReplyDeleteIf she was
ReplyDeletemeant to be some sort of extreme Sam-girl, she wouldn’t have wanted to explore
Destiel in the second act because Sam is basically irrelevant when it comes to
Dean/Cas. She was portrayed as a fan who felt passionate about the world of
Supernatural. (“I just [sighs] I couldn't leave it the way that it was.
I mean, Dean not hunting anymore, living with Lisa, S-Sam somehow back from
Hell but not with Dean? So, um, I wrote my own ending.”)
"Carver and his writers trash" "dragging its text, its fans and its legacy though mud" Carver is a person and the writers people? I am a fan too and I got insulted to be included to "fans" that seem to be dragged through mud.
ReplyDeleteAs I don't feel that at all. It is generalizing.
Example: "We all think Supernatural sucks" "I think Supernatural sucks and I can't speak for others". See the difference?
Amen! Could not agree more. I found myself thinking "where's Ben Edlund when you need him?" throughout this whole episode. I think I actually bemoaned the loss of Edlund more than Kripke, and with good reason.
ReplyDelete"My sweet, brave, selfless Sam" or whatever the actual line was...sorry, but that screams "Sam girl".
ReplyDeleteShe was talking about the writing as trash, not the people doing the writing. And saying the fans were "dragged through the mud" is actually defending the fans, who she felt deserved better, not insulting them.
ReplyDeleteThe people are doing the writing... And I didn't feel defended... But anyway, leaving this on this as my examples doesn't seem to work...
ReplyDeleteInteresting! We've spent the week having pretty much the same discussion on the forums: a lot of old line fans didn't exactly hate the episode, but neither did we think it was genius. Sorta meh. And then we had a bunch of people jump in and declare we were Mean Meanies who Mean, because H8RZ!!! Though these folks never really specified what it was they liked, just that they disliked other fans who disagreed with them.
ReplyDeleteMy take: Robbie took the pleas to be respectful to fans as "Kiss Tumblr's butt." It was like he had a literal list of Tumblr memes he was checking off when he wrote the episode: shipping, fan fiction ... and down to Adam in Hell and the Samulet. Really, I couldn't see any excuse for the Samulet other than people on Tumblr mention it a lot.
I thought some of the songs were cute, but didn't find Marie terribly sympathetic (a snarky, privileged girl against other snarky, privileged girls - who was I supposed to root for when so little was at stake?) and as you mentioned, the monster of the week was a complete fail.
If you read and view the CW's official interviews connected with the show, they're very telling. Robbie insisted on a musical, which is why I think the other stuff (like "plot" and "character") seem tacked on. Jensen reported that he utterly hated the idea, though he claims he came around. Misha seems sad and left out, and as a Cas girl, I'm annoyed his marvelous, badass original character was reduced to a sad sack with fuzzy wings singing a pathetic song about Dean.
Ah well....
I think it served the storyline, which was to get Dean to see Sam through someone else's eyes. someone more objective without all the emotional baggage that he has. Marie served that purpose. Her musical also allowed Dean to see how Sam views him through the (cringe inducing) song "A Single Man Tear" or whatever. (Sorry, folks, not a sappy musical fan.)
ReplyDeleteI don't think we can assume that Kripke would have the same writing staff since the staff has changed numerous times over the course of the series. There's no reason he couldn't bring in some new blood and let people go. Unfortunately, we're probably stuck with Singer's wife and her cohort.
ReplyDeleteWhy would Glass be next? Not saying your wrong, but I don't know that he's showrunner material. His writing is extremely uneven and he's shown some terrible judgment and knowledge of canon. It would probably make Dean girls happy though.
Yeah, I honestly don't get all the excitement about the episode or why it is getting so much love. It was just okay to me. As you said, it was "meh." I didn't hate, but I didn't love it either. The 200th episode should have been epic but, alas, it wasn't. Oh well!
ReplyDeleteI agree. The reason the character "shilled" Sam was because she was talking to "Dean" and it presented an opportunity for a comedic moment in which the real Dean Winchester listens to Marie fangirled over...you know...NOT him. Had Marie been talking to Sam, it surely would have been written the other way around. The character would have "shilled" Dean. And there would be people angry about that. Or people pissed off because Dean didn't get to be in that scene. Or because she wasn't "shilling" Cas. Or because of some other reason.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Dean-girl through and through, but I never took this as an example of overt Sam-shilling or that it was said at the expense of Dean. It was a joke.
It must be written in their contracts that all lead guest stars must share all significant moments w/Dean. I love Dean, but I have always found it weird how Sam no longer shares any "special" moments w/the guest stars. He is either knocked out or made to leave the room!
ReplyDeleteWeird way of writing, IMO.
I thought the episode was just okay, but I couldn't agree more w/you about this season lacking an overall arc. What story are they planning to tell this year b/c I'm not seeing one!
ReplyDeleteActually, nothing wrong with some Tumblr love, its a huge platform for show promotion and fan art . I am too old for it but even I stop by sometimes to admire some talented people there and some inspirational posts for youngsters, and some gif sets capturing those little things you can easily miss while watching : face expressions, references and so. Very entertaining btw.
ReplyDeleteBut why would you take it personally if someone thinks an episode was garbage? Why would you care? Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I didn't see any personal attacks in her review. She just gave her opinion of the episode.
ReplyDeleteThank you! I can't understand how anyone could be happy w/that fake amulet scene, but I understand I'm in the minority. I hated that scene. If they weren't going to bring back the real amulet, then they should have just not mentioned it at all, IMO.
ReplyDeleteit's sad that you as a fan dont like the show anymore and wish it was better but i dont think the writers "gave up". They planned this from the start of the season and went through with it. They wanted to give back the love we have shown towards them in the past. If some people didn't like the outcome then oh well, you cant please everyone. I thought it was kick ass but hey thats my opinion. As for Jensen and Jared they didnt have a positive reaction at first when they read the script but Jeremy explained to Jensen and Jensen understood why Jeremy wanted this.
ReplyDeleteIt's obvious she don't watch the same show we do, I love the episode it was great and funny. Nice tribute to the fans for all their support, we are seeing this through the eyes of the fans not actors. You have your own opinion on this and it seems to be hateful filled, I don't normally comment of things like this especially when it comes to hating on characters that I love. As for Misha it's not HIS 200 EPISODE!!!!! he has not been with the show from the beginning. This belongs to Jensen and Jared and Dean and Sam, they have been with the show since the Pilot so it's theirs. The only thing you are doing is causing a lot of arguments here, as for the other episode how can you explain yourself about that one. Just because the previews lack interest doesn't mean it's not good, wait until you see the episode before you judge it. I have love every 200 episode of Supernatural never once have I dish on any of them, I'm a huge fan of the show and the brothers that is what Supernatural is all about the brothers.
ReplyDeleteAnd I gave an opinion about the wording in her opinion. Tessa is official reviewer on this site, her reviews are public and subject to criticism as much as show she reviews. Like I said - I have nothing against her disliking of an episode, but yes, I take it personally when somebody calls something I dearly love garbage. Why would I care? Because I do. She (and whoever else) has a right call it so, I have my rights disliking this kind of wording.
ReplyDeleteI'm not hiding behind anything dear. Most of the rudeness I have read in these comments comes from the author; from referring to the show's producers as "yahoos" to labeling Ackles as being unprofessionally obsessed with the whole shipping thing. Patronizing fans who actually liked the episode by insinuating that we're not traditional fans like her is not only rude but arrogant.
ReplyDeleteTrashing is used as a verb here. It means destroying. I didn't say Carver and his writers are trash. Please don't misquote my words.
ReplyDeleteEverything I say in my article is by default my opinion. In my opinion "fans" were dragged through the mud by this portrayal of them. Saying they dragged "me" through the mud wouldn't make much sense now would it?
PS. You yourself don't seem to have a problem making bold declaration about the show, yet you get mad when someone else does it.
She was right about the Producers and while I don't blame Jensen for the shipping comments I do blame the writers and producers. As Tessa said, we all know Jensen doesn't like the whole subject. They should have left it out of the show. I found it tacky and tasteless, not to mention awkward for Jensen. As for Tessa insulting the fans.. the should be insulted by the crude way the were depicted in this episode.
ReplyDeleteI really wish people could understand the concept of different opinions. I also wish people could understand that a discussion is no fun if everyone shares the SAME opinion - be that a positive or a negative opinion. Just because Tessa writes the "Gripe" reviews doesn't mean she's "hate watching" the show. I enjoy the "Gripe Reviews" b/c I am no longer a happy, satisfied viewer. Her reviews point out her problems w/an episode. Why some people click on them and then become upset at the content is beyond me!
ReplyDeleteTessa, I was looking forward to your review, and you did not disappoint. I agree w/many of your gripes. I did not hate this episode, but I didn't love it either. I thought it was just okay. On a scale of 1-10, Id probably vote it a "5."
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I think it is great that many people loved this episode, but I was not one of them. I wasn't very moved or touched by the episode. I don't know why. I thought the COWS cover was nice, but I wasn't moved by that scene. I usually like the meta episodes, but this one was just okay. It could have been a lot better.
I hated the amulet scene. As a huge, and I mean HUGE brother fan, I was so upset when Dean tossed it in the trash in S5, proclaiming it meant nothing. I always, always thought Sam had picked it up and would return it at a later point. Now, years went by, and we never saw the thing again but I still liked to believe that Sam picked it up. If there was any time to show he had, it would have been in this episode, and they didn’t do it so I’m left to believe that Sam left it in the trash. Ugh . . . . that really bothers me.
The amulet was more than a piece of jewelry to locate God. It was probably the very first gift Sam ever gave his big brother. And Sam gave it to Dean b/c Dean was honest w/him and b/c Dean was there for him. To me, AVSC gave the amulet a great deal of sentimental value, which is why people ask about it to this day. So, to put up a fake amulet was insulting to me. When the camera panned to the back, I just knew I’d see the real amulet but I didn’t. That was a major letdown. Since Sam left the amulet in the trash, I wish it had never been mentioned again so I could continue my fantasy of Sam taking it out of the garbage. Haha! Honestly, it was just another little bit of the real Supernatural dying for me.
I don't have much more to say than that. I still wish Misha's fake documentary had been the 200th episode. This episode was completely pointless so it wouldn't have been missed. Misha's documentary was hilarious!!!
I don't believe for a minute Sam was shilled. What I saw was a fan girls misconception of the 'brother bond,' with Sam singing the praises of Dean; a response to all the fan uproar about Sam not looking for Dean and that awful The Purge speech. The real Sam was down dealing with Calliope.
ReplyDeleteI would think that out of a whole episode, there is more to take from it than 'Sam never gets to interact with the guest stars.' Good grief.
It's what the poor ff writers put in their stories.
ReplyDeleteRobbie took the pleas to be respectful to fans as "Kiss Tumblr's butt." It was like he had a literal list of Tumblr memes he was checking off when he wrote the episode: shipping, fan fiction ... and down to Adam in Hell and the Samulet. This is EXACTLY how it felt to me too. It was as if he was running out of room and was in a competition with himself to add as many of them as he could. Then he tacked a lame MotW and reason for its displeasure to the whole vehicle, sprinkled some brotherly love that Dean always needs to be convinced of in there, and shoved a chunk of Destiel right in the middle of it to have catered to that part of the fandom too. It was truly a beautiful Thanksgiving turkey filled to bursting.
ReplyDeleteJensen reported that he utterly hated the idea, though he claims he came around. Didn't seem like he did. In fact his facial expressions during the episode fueled my own outrage. He gave that look to the camera in exactly the moment when I had to stop my DVR to keep from gagging. It happened to be during the Destiel talk, and some are taking it as a sign of his inherent hatred for that ship - but to be honest to me it was the part that Robbie truly, recklessly, took it too far.
Misha seems sad and left out, and as a Cas girl, I'm annoyed his marvelous, badass original character was reduced to a sad sack with fuzzy wings singing a pathetic song about Dean. He shouldn't be sad. I'm glad he wasn't part of this embarrassing circus and I wish his character wasn't either. In fact, as a Cas girl myself, I wish he would leave the show and not look back instead of subjecting himself and his fans to the parody his once epic story has become.
Not this Dean girl. I still remember that author-insert Bad Boys that destroyed past Dean canon.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Glass, if it was a choice between Kripke and Glass, give me Kripke. Kripke at least listened to his good writers and Glass doesn't have any good ones to listen to. That said, Glass in next in line, so if Carver leaves...and that is a big if...it will be Glass.
Couldn't agree more. To me that was a slap in the face to the original. I would've preferred they not bring it back at all.
ReplyDeleteBut that's not this. I would have appreciated it if the episode celebrated the great art, video editing, storytelling and music that is presented on Tumblr. This play was in no way representative of the amazing talent you see in the fandom, If it wasn't for length consideration I would have linked some of that talent in my article to make a point that Marie's clown show was by no means a depiction of true works by dedicated fans.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I never say I didn't like the show anymore. If that were true I wouldn't be watching. What I said is that I've been disappointed with the turn it's taken in recent seasons and for me this episode was the epitome of that. The fact that Jensen and Jared didn't have a positive reaction when they read the script screams volumes to me. Frankly, while Jared was ok, I felt it was pretty obvious that Jensen remained uncomfortable with it throughout the episode. I'm just sorry that Jeremy didn't get the message.
ReplyDeleteBravo...well put, Bec! The face that Jared and Jensen were not happy with this script when they first read says everything you need to know and should have spoken volumes to Carver and the writers. I found it uncomfortable to watch and could almost feel Jensen's discomfort onscreen. The guys deserve better than to be put in that position and we as fans deserve better than to be patronized. If anyone was being rude here, it was them being rude to us.
ReplyDeleteThe only time I used the word "garbage" in the review was when I quoted Marie from the episode. Those were her words, not mine. If you're going to criticize my writing I ask you to do it accurately and fairly.
ReplyDeleteAlso, as I said to Lehash, "trashing" is a verb. It means destroying something in a violent manner, in this case the show. I'm sensing there might be a case of things getting lost in translation going on here. I do love my metaphors and my idioms a little too much. Looks like they have "muddied" my meaning a little in this one.
Wow...and I don't mean this sarcastically, so please don't take it that way, I'm seriously amazed that you and a few others in this thread were actually able to get something out of the words of those god awful songs. I seriously couldn't listen closely enough for that because they made my stomach turn. The only song I paid half attention to was Carry On.
ReplyDeleteWell in this case, Sam should be grateful that he was spared the majority of the "special" moments in this episode!
ReplyDeleteHahaha! Marie wasn't that bad to me, but the whole episode was very pointless, you know? It wasn't even all that entertaining . . . . at least not to me.
ReplyDeleteNicely put, lala...and I couldn't agree more on the amulet. I don't get all these people thinking that the representation of it here was a good thing. I felt exactly like you did...that it was an insult to the real thing. I, too, have been holding out hope that it would show up again and believing that Sam had taken it out of the trash. As you said, now would've been the perfect time to reveal that he had. That moment alone, tacked on at the end in the Impala scene, might actually have rescued this episode from being total dreck, but alas it was not to be.
ReplyDeleteAnd no, I didn't feel that a "love letter" was being written to me either...but then I'm not one of the "shipping" fans who insists on reading things into the show that were never there. But...to each his/her own.
Haha! Yeah, the Sam song was about what a good brother and general human being Dean is, but Dean wasn't even paying attn to the song. He was too busy looking for the monster and then Sam so what was the point?
ReplyDeleteI don't know what the Cas song was about other than him literally singing about waiting until morning for Dean, which is exactly what Cas did in TE. I'm guessing Destiel fans interpreted it in an entirely different way though.
Thank you!! I'm glad I'm not alone in hating that fake amulet! I couldn't believe all the love I read for that scene. It was a cheap, ugly knockoff. It wasn't the real amulet, so I honestly don't understand why people were so excited by it. Why couldn't they just have Sam pull the REAL amulet from his backpack or something?!?!?! As you said, that would have elevated the episode a lot in my mind, and it would have been a nice resolution to the "Samulet." I hate that Sam just left it in the trash. Why make that canon? Argh . . . .
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm saying is you shouldn't worry about what anyone else thinks of a work of fiction you enjoy. Who cares if someone else calls it garbage if you love it? What you think is really the only thing that matters.
ReplyDeleteFor instance, I love "The Walking Dead." Others can call it garbage, but that doesn't impact how I feel about TWD. I think it is a great show and only my opinion matters b/c I'm the one watching it. Haha.
Anyway, I hope you understand my point. No offense was intended.
Yup! I do wonder why so many were satisfied w/that resolution. Do people really believe Sam just left it in the trash? He was so hurt when Dean threw it away. I just don't believe he left it there though that is what Carvery & Co. would have me believe!
ReplyDeleteI loved this episode. Strong writing, it made me laugh a lot, I teared up some. It was an episode to celebrate the series and "meta" worked well for that. Loved it!
ReplyDeleteWith the amulet for me I can relate on some aspect. I lost my bracelet after I moved a few years back. I had it for 10 years after my grandparent past away. For my 30th B day my friend bought me one that was similar from walmart.lol its not the real thing by far but I admired that she took the time to try in find it. I don't ware it, but always keep it on my dresser. So I can get the feel of the fans on this amulet thing. I dont think Dean will wear it but got it hanging in the car. its sentimental value.
ReplyDeleteI would think that out of a whole episode, there is more to take from it than 'Sam never gets to interact with the guest stars.' Good grief.
ReplyDeleteI’m not sure why you felt the need to write that. My point was that if Marie had been a vehicle for Sam shilling like Tessa suspected to be the case, Marie would have gravitated toward Sam when she met both of the brothers in person. Instead, she interacted with Dean and that didn’t change even after she realized that Sam and Dean are indeed the ones who the Supernatural books are based on.
Glass is executive producer. In from what I heard he is the leader in the writers room. But I can honestly say no one on the SPN staff is showrunner material. They can't even keep their own script tights in focus.
ReplyDeleteI feel left out. So many people adored this episode and I just don’t get it. What am I missing? Tried to watch again but it’s even more embarrassingly dreadful the second time around. There’s a word we use in England that’s not much used here but it describes this mess perfectly for me. The word is ‘soppy’ – this was soppy with an overabundance of sappy.
ReplyDeleteI’m beginning to think my Supernatural – just like Elvis - has left the building....vanished into a soapy, mushy, muddle of feels. Oh god ... poor Jensen, his part in this was even more humiliating than Jared’s.
The season has only just started and I’m already depressed...off to watch Reichenbach again.
Agreed the show was crap. No plot or story just a villainess that took 2 seconds to take care of. The non musical was disjointed stuff thrown together but better then the musical part of with Carry on was the only part listening to. I do however have 2 grips with your review Cas was asked to leave the bunker because of Sam. Ezekiel/Gadreel told Dean if Cas stayed he'd have to leave meaning a badly injured Sam would die. Also Dean Did Not Trick Sam. Gad as Dean told Sam he had a plan and Sam asked about the plan Gad asked if that was a yes and Sam said yes. A host Can Not be possessed unless they agree to be possessed. Cas told Jimmy what he wanted and Jimmy agreed. Zeke/Gad was told by Dean he can try but he doesn't believe Sam will say yes. It's Sam's fault Sam was possessed but in Carver the hack's tenure Sam is perfect and if it looks like he made a mistake it's all Dean's fault. Kripke/Gamble both admitted their Sam fans but still manage to make the show even on both brothers and the other characters but Carver is not a Sam fan who sees Sam as
ReplyDeleteSo I don't normally comment on these things but I read your review every week and I think this is the first time I didn't agree with any of your gripes. I personally liked the episode, but I also didn't take a lot of the things they did the same way you did and that's the one thing about this show is that a lot of it is how people see it. Keep in mind these are just my opinions and if you don't agree thats fine but I just thought I would share what I thought about this episode.
ReplyDelete1) The writers and the actors mention this was supposed to be an episode dedicated to the fans there wasn't supposed to be any big plots just sort of a recap of what made us fall in love with the show. At least that's how i saw it.
2) As for marie I didn't think of her as someone who represented the fandom. If anything I saw her as someone who represented people who are in drama clubs. I had a girl in high school who acted a little like this she was so dramatic and was in every play my school held. Truthfully i thought the actress was trying to channel Rachel berry from glee.
3) The reason I think dean was so bothered is that dean was always more touchy then sam when it came to the book on their lives. In the real ghostfacer he was the one who went off on the two pretending to be sam and dean. On why he tried to correct them the fact that this is story on their lives he to me doesn't want them doing it but at the same time doesn't want them screwing it up either. As for him not taking offense to his mom burning but taking offense to sam and dean standing so close I think the reason for that is his mom dying was fact which he can't change whereas he has no intention of every having incest with his brother and is offended that people thinks thats how he feels. I know I would be pretty tick off if someone was trying to tell me they thought I was in love with my brother or that there was anything more going on then just familial love.
4) For the destiel stuff to me it was much like they acknowledge it but still did not want to discuss it. like when dean told sam and sam kept talking about but dean just told him to shut up. For me that was the writers saying that they and the actors realize it's a thing but don't really want to talk about it. As for the castiel song I hated it, at the same time this was supposed to be a fan made production so a fan writing a song about destiel to me isn't so far off the mark.
5) So this gripe I sorta agree with. I admit that anyone who doesn't really know anything about the fandom or only just watch the episodes but nothing more would really get all the references like the kim manners one. To me I think they just patrolled tumber and found the most often referenced thing and put it in the episode
6) Ok I lied this gripe I completely agreed with. I don't get why they act like dean has no fans and frankly it's a little irritating. I don't think it's necessarily a criticism on sam girls either.
7) As for chuck I have been waiting for him to return but I didn't think he would until the last episode so I admit wasn't expecting him to show up. I'm kind of hoping this means he will be returning soon but I won't get my hopes up.
Just as a side not I did like the songs a little bit but that is most likely due to the fact that I like musical episodes though I wish it would have been more rock music. Also as for the samulet I was really hoping that sam would pull out the real amulet and maybe hang it next to the fake one or dean would put it on but that's just me.
Thats something we have to ask kripke he tossed it on his watched cause he was ready for a change. I never expected the amulet to pop up in never asked really. I just been asking for a good storyline over the years. It sucks that it is canon that he left t in the trash some was hoping he did not. But that regime left it that way. In the new set just tried to give some fans a way to have that back.
ReplyDeletei feel pretty mixed about the episode. i think my overall problem with supernatural is that the show used to prioritize the horror aspect rather than the meta one. and it used to take itself a little more seriously. it made me a lot more invested in the good vs evil/big bad storylines because the show was actually kinda scary and made those demons seem like formidable threats. it just feels now like every other episode has a bunch of meta references.
ReplyDeletewith that being said i definitely respect that if the writers want to have a show full of meta references, etc, this was one hell of a great way to do it/celebrate 200 episodes. i just wish the writers didnt want that
IMDB rating is by fans and not every fan but a few. Check IMDB's Supernatural Bulletin Board and you'll find most there called it crap. A tv.com review talks about an obsessed Marie holding the plays cast hostage to her ideas. So no it isn't loved by most fans. I saw as a slap in the face to fans because Carver got called on the carpet by them more then once. When asked repeatedly why Sam didn't look for Dean in season 8 Carver snidely answered, "Because he didn't." Carver's pissed the fans aren't watching and saying everything he does is great so he stepped all over fans by making them look like obsessed idiots.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm assuming they still have this prop, right? It hasn't been lost or stolen like the leather jacket, right?
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm saying is if this new regime felt compelled to resolve the issue of the amulet, they could have just used the real one. There is honestly no reason they couldn't have, and I don't see how it would have violated canon to say Sam did pick it up. The scene just ended on Sam's face. We didn't see what he did after Dean left the room so it was entirely possible that he picked it from the trash and just held onto it. The dude wore it after Dean died. I just don't see him leaving it in the trash. Plus, canon means nothing to this regime anyway (i.e., Tessa, the angel instead of reaper).
I wonder why they wouldn't just give us the real thing. I hope someone at some convention asks b/c it has been stumped.
I completely agree with everything you said here and then some. It did nothing but tear down more of what was Supernatural. The MoTW was weak and a bore. There was no excitement in this episode. Instead there was a ton of cringe worthy embarrassment. All I could think was, "and they cured Dean for this?!!"
ReplyDeleteIm not sure if they still have the original one. But yeah that would be easier for them to do it this way. Come up with a little story line on how Sam giving it back to him 5 years later. If we lucky maybe someone may ask.
ReplyDeleteI miss the horror on the show. But they been slowly changing it since season 3. I know Dawn wanted Kripke to lighten up the show a bit so they changed the coloring. We lost our rock music cause of the budget in all. In then season 4 I think that's when they started to get in tune with it's fanbase stuff. So it just snow balled from there. I think it has a bit to do with the CW the change with times and to fit the younger audience. Some fans like it in some don't.
ReplyDeleteAs I see it, the problem with these writers is that they don't read, except for fanfic, they don't know anything about classic rock, they don't have a clue about working class blue collar guy lifestyles, they don't have a principled moral code (it's all a blurred thing, meaning they lack the fortitude of accountability and taking responsibility), they pay close attention to what the social media fans say, and they definitely see every movie that comes out. It all shows in their writing.
ReplyDeleteI really hate all the current pop cultural references that are thrown in, because they are just thrown in and don't give an instant image of what is going on with the brothers or in the scene. They are simply just there.
Yeah, I really get the impression Jensen never really warmed to the subject. The first bit, while he was hanging out working on the Impala to Gordon Lightfoot, was golden, and then Jared poked his lustrous mane out the door, and things went sideways. Was nice to see Jared doing comedy, I think he has a nice, light touch with this stuff.
ReplyDeleteBut I really got the overall impression this show was put together backwards, with Robbie thinking about what would look good at Tumblr GIFs, and then trying to paste it together into an episode.
Add me to the list... I don't get it. And I am depressed as well. I had such hopes for this season and so far the episodes have been nothing but disappointing.
ReplyDeleteThank you! I absolutely agree.
ReplyDeleteThey could have left the shipping issue out but it's like the elephant in the room, Maybe they thought that by confronting it and admitting it exists, it would give the actors/characters a chance to explain that it's not their interpretation and never will be. The hope might be that by putting it out there on the table, they may be able to finally put the issue to rest. You're right, though, I shouldn't have been so rude to Tessa especially when I tend to agree with her fairly often. Personally I was dreading this episode but, after watching, it showed quite a bit of creativity and originality. I was impressed with the performances, music, and humor and was surprised that she couldn't find anything positive to say about it.
ReplyDeleteIts hard to believe Robbie wrote First Born. if he can stop fanfic for 2 seconds just maybe. No more Slumber Party type scripts.
ReplyDeleteyeah i completely agree with you. another thing I've noticed - when kripke pitched the show he wanted to tell a show where the setting was America. everything from small towns to big cities, the episodes settings were basically their own character. thats kind of disappeared too in the past few years
ReplyDeleteWell put, we can agree to disagree. I was shocked so many liked this episode...but hey to each their own
ReplyDeleteyou know they screamed that at the Con I went too and I said to the person sitting next too me I hate the Destiel thing I never understand it but fans will be Fans they want everybody Gay.
ReplyDeleteme too I am now seeing one too I was thinking its the hole DD thing but that's over so what not the MOC I have not heard about anything yet on that. Maybe there not going with the arc anymore they kind of sucked so far maybe trying something new.
ReplyDeleteI don't like Meta unless it's subtitle (like the Alpha Vamp's "See you next season" or Dean's quote in Season 5 "It must be Thursday") or has something else to it.
ReplyDeleteI don't consider Changing Channels meta because it was a play on other shows and Gabriel was pulling the strings. Changing Channels is probably my favorite comedy episode of this show along with Mystery Spot. They were funny, but also had some great dramatic moments, such as Dean giving Gabriel a speech before setting off the alarm that caused the sprinklers to go off and kill the holy oil fire that trapped Gabriel (CC), and Sam's scene asking Gabriel to set things back to before Wednesday (MM).
I liked Chuck as a character so I accepted the existence of the Supernatural books. I did not like The Real Ghostbusters or even The French Mistake (besides a few scenes I found funny and the begin/end scenes with Balthazar, Castiel, and Raphael). The episodes overall felt unnecessary and silly. I found the 200th episode awkward and boring, just as The Real Ghostbusters was except for Sam and Dean making a slicing motion to their throats while Chuck was talking at the convention, and the end scene when Chuck gives them a lead that well leads to Abandon All Hope, one of my absolute favorite episodes from this show and also one of the most emotional and tragic episodes.
I agree about Point of No Return. It was what I expect out of a milestone episode and is the episode I use to answer "What's your favorite episode?". Not this comedy fest. I can give many examples from Season 1-5 what I consider a great episode (defined as action packed, touching, and/or of great quality). It gets harder afterwards. The only episode that immediately comes to mind post season 5 is Appointment in Samarra.
I know what it means. You are saying that Carver and the writers are trashing etc etc Supernatural and it is directed to them. I didn't say you call them trash as I copied what you wrote.
ReplyDelete"Supernatural has finally hit its rock bottom. It no longer is the iconic TV show it once was, but a chaotic fairground Carver and his writers trash on regular basis and use as a stage to parade their self-indulgent ownership of it by dragging its text, its fans and its legacy though mud."
I don't see the humor in that... All I wrote was on my behalf or are you saying I am not allowed to say the series are awesome when you are saying Misha should leave the show because it is a sinking ship (This is not a straight quote btw but meaning was similar) or "Supernatural has finally hit its rock bottom?" among other things.
I know mine was positive but I could actually say that there is nothing wrong to say that on my behalf or am I not allowed to say it is awesome? How the hell is that bold declaration if I see it that way? I didn't write to it "fans" or "all the people in the world" It is how I see it and I know there are others that think the same but they can speak for themselves too. :)
Why I liked the episode and still like the show? I like the story still. The new characters they introduce us are varied and have character. The 200th episode itself was a celebration and I took it as that. It had a lot in it and showed the shows history. Also the story arc was going on there and there was little things to find out. To think about. Everything fit and was like it supposed to be. The episode made me smile with a tint of fear and also sadness. That is how I saw it. I hope it's clear it is my opinion?
I was only giving feedback what bothered me in the review and saying I will not read the next just because a) how the feedback was taken in and b) the writing style won't probably change. As a note I wasn't the only one that wrote in concern about the review... But yeah, anyway...
Gone and passed. Moving along. :)
sorry I did not hear any of the songs. I hear them and turn to AOS right away because they made me Cringe too.
ReplyDeleteso true there.
ReplyDeletejust like in season 4 when Sam gave back the Amulet back too Dean that was more heartfelt then this.
ReplyDeleteIMDB doesn't count for all viewers of the show. A lot of people have dropped the show, don't go on IMDB, or just don't bother grading episodes. The internet does not represent the whole fandom let alone general viewers - not by a long shot.
ReplyDelete"As far as the "Supernatural means family," I almost puke every time I hear that comment, and you know why? Because Kim Manners was the one who really understood and JA picked up on it real quick) that the combination of supernatural background with a family drama foreground was the magic that lit up the show - along with a grainy, gritty shooting style, the blue-collar vs white-collar (gut feeling vs intellect) approach between the brothers and the overarching epic and ominous struggle between human good and all-powerful corruption.
ReplyDeleteThat all left with Kripke."
Agreed. While during Kripke's time as showrunner there was flaws, things really started going downhill after he left.
Yep, I like my fan fiction separate from my actual shows. Except for when a show strays so much from its original idea that some fan fiction get it better than the actual show. Carver is paying attention to the wrong fan fiction.
ReplyDeleteI identified myself as a fangirl early on (of the show, the brothers, and friendship - not shipping) but it's not really a great term anymore with how fans are represented on the show. They can't seem to write a level headed fangirl. They're just all crazy or silly on the show.
ReplyDeleteI usually like the meta shows. I haven't watched SPN in a while, but I came back for this. Frankly, when I started to think about what they could be saying, I got frustrated. When I turned it off and just reminisced, it was a nice little episode and the kids sang Carry On My Wayward Son. After that, it doesn't withstand inspection because it doesn't hold up to it without massive problems with what TPTB think of female fans. If there is one thing Carver understands it is the fans and the fans buttons, too bad he didn't get the show quite as well.
ReplyDeleteYep I actually liked the Carry On Wayward Son song. The others made me cringe.
ReplyDeleteI was watching AOS the whole time. They have the right balance of action and comedy and have kicked into a great gear since the middle of Season 1. I watch Supernatural online later in the week.
ReplyDeleteYep, Becky was awful. She should have been put in jail and gotten therapy. Seriously messed up.
ReplyDeleteThere was no misconception about the brother bond. The girl insisted that Dean take the amulet back even if Dean said he didn't want it, rightly knowing that it's Sam that needed to know that he was trusted. Very astute IMO. The whole episode was meant to remind the brothers of their purpose in life and what they mean to each other.
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. I thought this episode was one of the worst of the entire series so far.
ReplyDeleteThere was recently a flashback of young Dean wearing the amulet. It looked the same.
ReplyDeleteYes! I miss Edlund. I also miss Gamble and Carver as WRITERS. Somehow I absolutely loved their Season 1-5 episodes but when they were show runners things changed.
ReplyDeleteGod no! Not Glass. 24/7 Garth. I'll take Carver over any of the new writers under him.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the amulet is ever coming back. IIRC, Jensen was glad to be rid of it because it kept hitting his face and chipped his teeth. To have it back now and Dean not wear it would be disappointing.
ReplyDeleteI agree that we're not going to see it again for the main reason you stated (Jensen kept forgetting to swamp the plastic one w/the real one), but at this point, I don't know if it would have bothered me for Dean to NOT wear it. I can't say b/c that's not how it played out.
ReplyDeleteI liked his line about not needing an amulet to know how he feels about his brother, so if Sam had returned the real one to him and he hung it up instead of put it on, I don't think it would have bothered me. But then I might have wanted to rant about that. Haha! I guess we'll never know, huh?
Kerinda, that is one of my favorite moments from LaR. I thought it was sweet that Sam wore the amulet the entire time Dean was in Hell, and I was happy when he returned it. That was a very touching scene. That was when the show had heart, IMO.
ReplyDeleteExactly! They take the time to bring up the amulet but then don't return the real one . . . . on the 200th episode no less?!?!?! It felt like a wasted opportunity to me.
ReplyDeleteI forgot about that. I tried to erase BB from my memory, but yes, young Dean was wearing what the amulet.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if they feel Dean must wear the amulet if it appears again. They can't seriously believe that, can they? I'd rather see it hanging in the Impala than knowing Sam left it in the trash!