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POLL : What did you think of Arrow - Guilty?

Nov 13, 2014

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143 comments:

  1. Nirat AnopNovember 13, 2014 at 1:59 AM

    Freakin awesome fights scenes especially between Oliver and Wildcat! Boxing Glove!

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  2. maclivesNovember 13, 2014 at 2:01 AM

    Cupid will be so much fun :D

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  3. Rheinmeister09 .November 13, 2014 at 2:02 AM

    Much much improvement on Laurels character. And this is from someone who wasn't a fan at all. Keep it up

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  4. Ambar Moreno CandelasNovember 13, 2014 at 2:02 AM

    This was not a centric episode of Roy. Too much Laurel... Cupid and TeamArrow the best!!! :)

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  5. MurderMondaysNovember 13, 2014 at 2:04 AM

    It was, uh, a mixed bag.


    Good


    - Laurel swerving to throw the bad guy from the car


    - Not dragging out the mystery of Roy killing Sara


    - Boxing Glove arrow


    Bad


    - Laurel being so flippant about Oliver's identity


    - Oliver acting like a hypocrite


    - Digg being out of character


    - Roy potentially going back to S1-levels of angst


    The Ted story wasn't very interesting. I found it a bit silly that he was adamant that Oliver not train Roy but then turned around to accept Laurel as a new protégé. But maybe he thinks this is his second chance. We'll see.

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  6. OreNovember 13, 2014 at 2:04 AM

    I actually really enjoyed this episode. The fight scenes were really great. And I really liked Laurel in this episode. She's becoming stronger Does anyone think Oliver is being a major douchebag though. Why can`t Laurel get training if she wants? And I really liked Roy in this episode. I'm happy he's actually getting a story-line/stuff to do. Oliver/Roy bromance though...The stuff with Ted Grant and his protege wasn't really that gripping but I guess it was to draw parallels between Oliver and Roy.

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  7. JulianaNovember 13, 2014 at 2:04 AM

    Ok Oliver, if Laurel wants to train just let her, let's not have the same fight over and over again! Ted's backstory was ok, the pace of the episode bothered me a little bit and I feel like Diggle was completely OOC to tell Oliver to cut Roy lose.
    So, I guess Roy didn't kill Sara, then? Good.
    Can't wait for Cupid!

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  8. maclivesNovember 13, 2014 at 2:05 AM

    Yeah, Olivers way of acting towards Laurels personal wishes is kind of...unhealthy.

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  9. ShannonNovember 13, 2014 at 2:05 AM

    Didn't like this episode too much. It was supposed to be Roy centric, instead I (we) got a whole bunch on Laurel and Grant. Snooze! But the episode was nicely paced. I did like the Arrow vs Grant fight...BOXING GLOVE ARROW!! HA!!! I loved that. That was really cool.

    Best part of the episode Oliver and Roy!!! "You're nothing but another weapon in his arsenal. He'll abandon you." "I'm not you." (Roys drops the dude, turns to Oliver).

    Roy- "Don't abandon me."
    Oliver- "Never."

    Awwwwwww!!! My Feels!!! I loved that!!! And Roy did well, kicked some ass. That made up for this half crappy episode. I also enjoyed the flashbacks and the last Oliver and Roy scene.

    Roy- "He said I was just another weapon in your arsenal."
    Oliver- "Then maybe that's what we should call you....Arsenal." Oliver smiles. (I love it when he smiles)

    Hell yeah you will!! And of course, Cupid makes her grand entrance. Loved the arrow noise at the end. Next week. So. Much. Fun. Hahahaha Oliver cracked me up....NEVER. GOING. TO. HAPPEN. Hahahaha

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  10. Alii JoeeNovember 13, 2014 at 2:05 AM

    This season is so BADASS !! No bad episode so far ....
    WILDCAT is awesome

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  11. someinsanityNovember 13, 2014 at 2:06 AM

    Boxing Glove Arrow!! Arsenal!! Wildcat reference!! Unnecessary front flip!! This episode had me fangirling all over the place!!

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  12. ChanezNovember 13, 2014 at 2:07 AM

    Roy- "Don't abandon me."
    Oliver- "Never."``


    I loved it, I enjoyed Ted Grant's story and Katana scenes.

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  13. Justin ValdesNovember 13, 2014 at 2:33 AM

    A little slower than the previous episodes we have seen but I still liked it!


    I knew Roy didn't really kill Sara but seeing him actually believe that he did for most of the episode was pretty gut wrenching. Felt bad for the guy. But at the end where Roy tells Oliver "Don't abandon me" and Oliver comes back and says "Never" just about made my heart melt and turned it into goo. Oliver would never bail on him. I love their bromance so much. Also, Arsenal!! Woohoo!


    The action scenes were once again, just phenomenal and I continue to be in awe of them. The fight scene between Oliver and Ted and Oliver used the boxing glove arrow made me squeal like a little girl. I have waited 2 years to finally see Oliver use it and it did not disappoint! A nice nod to the comics :) And that chase scene was all around epic.


    Laurel was pretty great in this episode and I'm glad that Ted gave her a second chance in training her. She's getting closer to becoming Black Canary and I can't wait to see her in full action kicking some serious.


    Cupid at the final scene made me laugh so much. "Who the hell are you?" "I'm Cupid, stupid" XD I love her already and she's going to be one interesting villain. And did anyone else see her pop up during the episode like when Laurel was coming out of Wildcat's gym and she was standing in the crowd as Laurel passed by? That was pretty cool. Can't wait for her big introduction next week! It's going to be so damn entertaining.

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  14. MidnightNovember 13, 2014 at 3:06 AM

    I'm pretty sure we also saw her outside Diggle's car at one point when he was driving to Wildcat's vigilante cave or something.

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  15. BenNovember 13, 2014 at 3:16 AM

    Unfortunately, this episode was all over the place and I was definitely expecting better this week. I was hoping it would concentrate more on Roy than Laurel based on the promos.

    On the other hand, I'm really excited about Cupid coming and the scenes with Roy and Oliver were really good especially when Oliver never gave up on him. I love their bromance so much.

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  16. KokyNovember 13, 2014 at 3:16 AM

    "Talk me in" almost

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  17. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 3:16 AM

    They call him Flipper! Flipper...
    Roy do a flip! Roy do a flip!
    Ok... now please stop or at least learn to do a new trick!

    Maybe a round off handspring layout or something!! XD

    Did anyone actually think Roy killed Sara?
    I guess they had to go through the motions with that plot, but I found it a bit weak. Glad it's played out for the most part now... I did like that Roy finally got his Arsenal alias!

    Not so sure that boxing glove arrow trick would work, but it was funny! XD

    This was a good episode, but maybe a little slow with a bit too much Laurel and Ted Grant for my tastes. I would have preferred Roy to be the A-plot and Wildcat's history to be the B-plot personally, but alas.... I do not write the show. XD

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  18. BenNovember 13, 2014 at 3:17 AM

    The scenes with Laurel and Grant were very irritating. Agreed with every single word you said in this post. Cupid is going to be really interesting next week!

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  19. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 3:19 AM

    And in the parking lot outside the second crime scene as well. think it was the second.. maybe the first I can't recall. She was a witness looking at the scene.

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  20. PamNovember 13, 2014 at 3:23 AM

    Loved it. Oliver has got to be the most annoying ex ever.lol The way he tries to run my girl Laurel's life is too funny but I will admit it's sweet how much he wants to protect her. I did love how he admitted that he never saw her as weak. It's going to be fun watching him realize and see her as an equal. I also love how we now know that she doesn't work for him. That's right girl, you will work with him but NOT for him. I want those two to be partners in every sense of the word. Can't wait to see how they get there and the Roy/Oliver stuff was just too endearing I love how he was there for him and how Roy he will never abandon him. LOVE their bromance.

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  21. OreNovember 13, 2014 at 3:23 AM

    I also thought this episode was well acted and focused unlike some other episode this season which I liked

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  22. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 3:24 AM

    That annoyed me so much when Laurel just nonchalantly tossed out that Arrow was her ex!
    Also annoyed me when she accused Oliver of having Ted arrested as if Oliver had the power to do that! XD


    So ridiculous, but not as dangerous as the "ex" thing!

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  23. lilah_lilahNovember 13, 2014 at 3:42 AM

    But Laurel is part of the main cast, she has to have scenes. And in this episode it made sense, she was the character that was connected to both sides.

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  24. ChanezNovember 13, 2014 at 3:43 AM

    this !!!! she says something and says or acts the contrary in the next scene

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  25. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 3:45 AM

    That was a serious flaw in the writing! XD
    She should never be in both the A-plot and B-plot in an episode. Ever! XD


    Yes it made sense, but it did not make for a good episode.

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  26. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 3:48 AM

    Consistently does that, yep!
    I know some argue Oliver does it too, but I think he has earned his moments with everything he has been through.

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  27. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 3:49 AM

    In the parking lot outside the second crime scene as well. I think it was the second.. She was a witness looking at the scene. Yep. :)

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  28. lilah_lilahNovember 13, 2014 at 3:51 AM

    Oh come on, give the girl a break... :P

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  29. BlueStarNovember 13, 2014 at 3:53 AM

    I loved Oliver and Roy's scenes together. I'm happy with how Oliver handled the situation. Yay that Roy's officially Arsenal now. And I knew Roy couldn't have actually been the one to kill Sara but was relieved it was resolved by the end of the episode.


    The fight scenes were really great tonight.

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  30. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 3:53 AM

    Ha! XD
    I will change that opinion when they start writing better material for her character.. I swear! XD


    At times she was better tonight.... and then she went back to her reactionary "Laurel-ness" I hate. I think the writers are incapable of writing that many good scenes for her in one episode! XD


    I am so hoping that changes as she becomes a larger part of the show again!

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  31. KokyNovember 13, 2014 at 3:59 AM

    It was an OK episode but It's nice to know that I was right about Roy, speaking of Roy I love his big brother\little brother relationship with Oliver so much I actually teared up in their scenes
    -"Don't be sorry, be rested! I won't be much of a teacher if I let you get killed because your reaction time is slow"
    -"Don't abandon me" "Never" awww
    -"I'm gonna miss this, I feel like I was just starting to be good at it" "You are getting good at it" "the guy, he said I was just another weapon in your arsenal" "Maybe that's what we should call you then... Arsenal!" nice :D
    -"This is weird" lol
    -"Do you trust me?" "Always!" awww again lol
    and finally he and Felicity had more scenes together, and he was good when he was fighting the bad guy (I can't remember his name) but I was mad at Digg when he told Oliver to abandon Roy it seemed out of character just like when he told Oliver to let Nyssa kill Malcolm. Nonetheless I enjoyed my Team Arrow moments.

    I never cared for Ted but I liked him in this episode, hope he sticks around for a while, and that fight between him and Oliver was nice, and finally a boxing glove arrow, congratulations comic books fans :D He and Oliver had some nice lines but the best was "this where I kept my supplies. A safe place separate from my day job, as I'm sure you got one just like it" "Mine is bigger" lol that was a serious alpha male moment lol.... When YKW told Ted that she and the Arrow used to date, I was like, why don't you give him Oliver's social security number while you're at it, ugh, but I liked that she called Felicity when she was in trouble, seriously Felicity is like Vigilantes' 911 lol

    Oliver and Akio are adorable together, it feels like a foreshadowing for when Oliver meets his son, there must be a reason they have so many scenes together. I've been reading China White's name exactly like Oliver said it, I was shocked when I heard Amanda say it lol

    "I'm Cupid, stupid" she is going to be soooo fun, can't wait!

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  32. KokyNovember 13, 2014 at 4:18 AM

    Anger is always her go-to emotion and that's the main reason I can't connect with her, I can't even feel her grief.

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  33. Nicolás Caballero MühlbachNovember 13, 2014 at 4:21 AM

    Laurel is Dinah Laurel Lance, the true Black Canary, of course she has to have more screen, whether some people like it or not, and this only is the start. Haters should go before heart attack :P

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  34. lilah_lilahNovember 13, 2014 at 4:24 AM

    Is YKW who I think it is? Isn't it a bit childish and petty to call her that?


    Is this fandom already at that point?

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  35. Nicolás Caballero MühlbachNovember 13, 2014 at 4:25 AM

    Can we get more Laurel/Ted scenes for episode please? I can't wait to see Ted full masked. I'm loving Dinah Laurel's evolution :)

    Loved the bond between Roy and Ollie.

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  36. Helen SNovember 13, 2014 at 4:26 AM

    Way to much Laurel? Hater BYE! There has been tracking of the screentime and Roy, oliver. And Felicity have gotten more than her.

    Because she should be angry and sad over her sister being murdered in front of her? Like I said hater bye!!!

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  37. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 4:39 AM

    My issue with the character as well...
    She feels so completely foreign to me. I have maybe one of those reactionary episodes a year... Maybe. She does it more than once an episode frequently....

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  38. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 4:43 AM

    Yawwwn...
    Haters can hate as much as they want, it's their right.


    Personally I do not care enough about the show, the actress, or her character to hate. I just think the writers do a terrible job with the character. I want them to do a better job, not remove her from the show! XD


    Of course she needs to be on screen!
    Laurel is to Arrow as Lana Lang was to Smallville..... Annoying, but needed.

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  39. ivanNovember 13, 2014 at 4:44 AM

    Boxing Glove Arrow really? wow LOL that was pretty cool actually and not as dumb as i pictured when people kept saying they wanted that and thank goodness roy didn't do it i mean i knew they wouldn't (more hoping) take that route with him but it's great that we confidently say that and i loved all the oliver and roy moments, Roy Harper is officially Arsenal AWESOMESAUCE!!! roy's fight scene with grant's former apprentice was so awesome

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  40. Kathleen KervinNovember 13, 2014 at 4:57 AM

    Laurel is the one with the power to arrest Ted, not the Arrow.

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  41. Kathleen KervinNovember 13, 2014 at 5:02 AM

    This episode should have been about Roy, his relationship with Oliver, his fears of killing Sara, how he's grown, how he fits in with the rest of Team Arrow.


    Instead it got to be about Laurel and Ted Grant and a really minor villain. Roy's story was rushed through because it was another episode about Laurel, making three out of the six this season.


    I hate how OOC Diggle was. He's an ex-soldier, he knows you don't drop a brother because he got hurt fighting with you.


    And OOC Felicity too.


    Way the weakest episode this season.

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  42. Nicolás Caballero MühlbachNovember 13, 2014 at 5:06 AM

    You will going to need a pacemaker then :)

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  43. MeatyStakesNovember 13, 2014 at 5:07 AM

    Ted doesn't know how many people Laurel has dated! why would he think it's the playboy millionaire that run his family's company to the ground after being missed on an island?

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  44. MeatyStakesNovember 13, 2014 at 5:08 AM

    Now, here is your problem: It wasn't supposed to be Roy centric, I dunno where people have gotten this idea from.

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  45. MeatyStakesNovember 13, 2014 at 5:10 AM

    I seriously have no idea why people thought this episode was supposed to be Roy centric. But certainly makes me understand why people didn't see their expectations met.


    Solid episode, I like Ted Grant, but I was irritated about Ollie's hypocrisy.

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  46. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 5:15 AM

    Meh, not me. :)
    Right now the positives of Arrow outweigh the negatives of Laurel.

    If a character gets too annoying I quit watching a show. Too many good shows on TV right now to waste time watching a show that annoys me too much.

    I can think a character is badly written without hating her or even getting emotional about it. The day I get so emotional over some TV character that it affects me after I turn off the show will be the day I check myself into a psych ward somewhere! XD



    It's TV.... TV!

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  47. adjectiveNovember 13, 2014 at 5:19 AM

    agree with everything you mentioned

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  48. adjectiveNovember 13, 2014 at 5:20 AM

    because the other exes are dead (Tommy, Sebastian)

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  49. lilah_lilahNovember 13, 2014 at 5:30 AM

    And she couldn't have dated someone else off screen?

    If Oliver was able to date someone on a desert island while pinning over Laurel's picture and less than one year after seeing his mistress "die", why couldn't Laurel have dated many people too?

    And wasn't her friend at CNRI always trying to get her on dates?

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  50. MeatyStakesNovember 13, 2014 at 5:34 AM

    But why would Ted KNOW THAT, jeez

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  51. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 5:46 AM

    If you are defending Laurel for giving hints about someone's secret identity you are just trying to hard! XD

    What she did was yet another example of reacting without thinking before she acted.

    There is absolutely no reason to give anyone a hint whether or not it seems like a trivial thing. She has no right to tell anybody about Arrow's alter ego and especially not someone who she has only recently met. They are called secret identities for a reason.

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  52. lilah_lilahNovember 13, 2014 at 5:53 AM

    After Oliver and Sarah, Laurel is the one that has been though the most on the show. Also for Laurel it was emotional things that hit her in a short period of time (2-3 years).

    Boyfriend (Oliver) that you thought was dead, is alive. Opening up the possibility of her sister being alive too, the sister that was cheating with the boyfriend that just came back from the dead.

    Learns that sister is dead from Oliver.

    Boyfriend (Tommy) dies.

    Half the suburbs disappear from the map and many people die (I would put this as the 9/11 of Starling City, so still emotionally devastating even for someone just living near by, but the knew and was close to the people that caused it, so even more emotional investment and guilt maybe).

    Has to prosecute the mother of her ex-boyfriend, who she is/was close to.

    Her mother returns telling that sister is alive, giving hope again only to fail again.

    Turns to alcohol and drugs.

    Loses her job.

    Believes that her current boyfriend (Sebastian) is a psycho. No one believes her and she starts to think that she is losing her mind.



    Her sister returns.


    Her father almost dies.


    Her sister dies, for real this time (I think).

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  53. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 5:56 AM

    I was underwhelmed by this episode. Not because I hated Ted Grant story. I liked it but expected some big revelation regarding Sara's death after the explosive ending last episode. Thank goodness they won't stretch this mystery beyond episode 9. It is getting boring. Undertaking worked because we used to get little bit of knowledge in between. Not this bait and switch they are playing every other episode.


    So Ted Grant was a former vigilante who worked in Starling city 6 years before. He had an apprentice whom he cut off after he killed a guy. Fair enough. I liked the back story of Ted and JRR delivered. I liked the fight between Arrow and Ted. It was evenly matched and fun to watch. Oliver sounded like a hypocrite when speaking to Ted but I think that was mostly due to his worry for Laurel. I wish Laurel would loosen up a little. That scene in the interrogation room would have been so much better if she had talked to Ted like a friend wanting to help. She was talking the same way she she talked to the guy in the hospital in "Sara". A little bit softness to the voice would have done wonders. I loved the swerving of the car she did and when she said I am not a part of your team I cheered. Yes Oliver I get where you are coming from but stop bossing her around. She does not work for you.


    The Roy part was really underwhelming. I felt bad for the guy but nothing new happened here. CH was a hit and miss this episode. He is improving. Do we have a ship name for Roy and Oliver "Roliver" .. "Don't abandon me... Never" This ship is up there with Meredith Grey and Derek Sheppard with their heartfelt words.


    This was a slow and a little bit boring episode for me. That's because like last week I am biased and am only warming up to Laurel. Also I think this episode lacked some spark. Can we sign a petition to always keep KC with light lipsticks. She looks so beautiful without heavy make up.


    So excited for cupid next episode. I liked her hovering around all the crime scenes. She looks fierce.

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  54. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 5:57 AM

    That's because during SDCC Marc Guggenheim promoted this episode as Roy heavy episode.

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  55. MeatyStakesNovember 13, 2014 at 5:58 AM

    I really don't think I'm the one trying too hard.


    Ted only knows now that Laurel had a sexual/romantic past relationship with the arrow, from an unknown pool of candidates.


    "We used to date" is vague as hell, and you ARE trying too hard to make this a huge offense from Laurel's part.

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  56. MeatyStakesNovember 13, 2014 at 6:01 AM

    It could be the reason TBH, I didn't kept with much SDCC spoilers, nor creator/actors interviews, and just watching this episode's promo, It was Ted centric.

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  57. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 6:06 AM

    I don't know why every body thinks DIggle is ooc during this episode and during The Magician. He is a special forces veteran. When it comes to terrorists their modus operandi is taking them out. Malcolm is first and foremost a terrorist. So it made sense to me Diggle wanted to eliminate that threat. Also in military special operations if an operative goes rogue, they are either taken out or cut loose. Roy is a brother in arms but if he had actually killed Sara like Digg believed I can see why he wants to cut him loose. Having said that I would have liked it instead of asking Oliver to abandon Roy altogether Digg would have asked him to keep him away from missions and get him help for mirakuru episodes he was having.

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  58. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 6:11 AM

    Then you are a better person than I am. I bow to you. LOL. I am such a spoiler junkie for Arrow I think I watched every one of SDCC interviews.

    People have been talking about Roy episode from SDCC onwards and we kind of knew from interviews that in this episode Roy will know about his past killings. So for us nothing new happened on that front that's why it's disappointing. I hoped some big revelation like Roy sleep walking and witnessing Sara's death or something like that.

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  59. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 6:17 AM

    I would feel the same way if Oliver was gay and didn't want anyone to know but his circle of friends. She has no right to come anywhere close to outing Oliver as The Arrow. It is not her secret to share or hint at. Period.


    There is an implicit trust to being trusted enough to be let into the circle of knowledge. She broke it.

    She is just lucky Ollie is a hero and not a villain! XD
    If a villain learned someone they knew was dropping hints about their secret identity they would most likely kill that person.

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  60. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 6:24 AM

    I really wish they had treated both last week and this week's episode a little bit differently and kept it more tighter. And I am bored by the mystery of Sara's death.

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  61. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 6:26 AM

    Life and death situations change things a bit to me.
    They're entirely different than sarcasm or attempts at sophomoric humor.

    Although I found it annoying when Barry mentioned Felicity worked for the Arrow to his team!

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  62. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 6:28 AM

    But that was a life or death situation for Oliver. You can't compare that with this. Also bringing Felicity up when someone criticizes Laurel does not make your argument any stronger.

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  63. MeatyStakesNovember 13, 2014 at 6:29 AM

    Oh yaaaas, I can definitely and wholeheartedly agree with you about Cupid!

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  64. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 6:29 AM

    But if someone was trying to find out who Arrow is this one scentence reduced the suspect pool to few numbers. After that they only have to follow news to find out who the guy is. I am not saying Ted is going to do that. But Laurel should be more careful in such circumstances.

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  65. lilah_lilahNovember 13, 2014 at 6:30 AM

    I don't think it was meant as an attack on Felicity, but pointing out that someone actually told someone else who Oliver was, compared to what Laurel did in today's episode.


    Laurel could have said who the Arrow was in season 2, when her father was in jail and saying it would let her father free. But she didn't.

    ReplyDelete
  66. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 6:32 AM

    Ha! XD
    I did not even notice that until you mentioned it!


    I simply never look at any situation as "either or" when it comes to Felicity or Laurel. I guess it is to some people though...


    I would react the same way if anyone carelessly outed another person. To me it's a matter of privacy and trust, no matter who is being careless.

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  67. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 6:34 AM

    And Laurel was right the first time around to not tell Arrow's identity even to save her father! I respected that.

    ReplyDelete
  68. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 6:34 AM

    She wanted to say it in season 2 and it was Quentin's speech that changed her mind. But I wouldn't have blamed her then if she did out Oliver for Quentin's sake. Family over everything.


    But this was no life and death situation like Felicity faced. No one in her family was in danger or in jail. She was pissed with Oliver and that dialogue came out of her mouth.

    ReplyDelete
  69. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 6:39 AM

    Wow, really?
    I was dreading she would tell him in that moment!
    (Now, her not telling him that Sara is dead is a different thing to me....)


    I wouldn't mind if Ollie told Quentin though.
    Honestly I think it is a bit silly he has not told Q!

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  70. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 6:42 AM

    I was annoyed with Barry too when he did that.

    ReplyDelete
  71. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 6:46 AM

    So true
    I'm not as bothered by them dragging out the identity of Sara's killer as some, but I think sometimes the show drags things out too long or handles them poorly.


    To me it might have been more effective dealing with Roy's nightmare's and memories in one more focused episode.They could have had him mention he wasn't sleeping well in passing once or twice without showing the nightmares. Then have an episode centered on the nightmares and memories where the truth came out. It would have felt less heavy-handed to me..

    ReplyDelete
  72. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 6:47 AM

    But Quentin is her father and he was wrongly convicted due to Arrow. So I would have given her a pass if she had outed Oliver to Quentin. She is protective of her father.


    Don't remind me of the Sara and Quentin situation I hate writers for doing that. They are heading for a Quentin and Laurel estrangement after the reveal of Sara's death. After all their go to method when it comes to Laurel is put more issues and angst over existing boat lead of them. As if her sister's death was not enough.


    I think in Oliver's mind he is protecting Quentin by not giving up his identity. If someone puts Quentin on a stand ask him to give up Arrow's identity he can say he does not know under oath.

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  73. MeatyStakesNovember 13, 2014 at 6:48 AM

    IDK, how many guys Laurel has dated is not public record, and even if she made a list (why??) Ted might think she left the Arrow "AKA the guy she used to date" out. Now Ollie is still Laurel's friend, and that could make him "hide in plain sight" from Ted.


    Besides, after she said that, Ollie smirked! he don't bother, I don't get why the fandom goes apeshit.

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  74. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 6:51 AM

    The problem with mystery of Sara's killer is it's been 3 episodes where they make people think one person is the killer to come out at the end and say no he is not. It get's repetitive after first two times. I liked the mystery they created with Undertaking in season 1. It was like opening a package. We used to get clues and little clarity in frequent intervals. Here from episode 1 last minute to this episode only thing we know is Sara's killer is an archer whom she knew the identity of. Nothing new on that front.

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  75. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 6:53 AM

    I love the Quentin character, but I would rather see him die not knowing than have him find out and disown Laurel!! Ack! I had not thought of that...


    I agree with your thoughts on why Ollie does not tell Q.
    Sometimes I think if Ollie had his way he would be operating alone and in secret still. He does not want anyone to feel the burden he does or to feel responsible if something happens to them "because of him."


    Just like he does not want anyone to take on the burden of being a hero/ vigilante if they do not have to. He understands everything it entails.

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  76. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 6:57 AM

    I never said Laurel made a list. And I also said Ted will never go looking for Arrow's identity. The point is as a character Laurel who keeps secret for Oliver should not reveal things in such a way to people outside their trust circle. You don't need a list to research and find out who all a person has dated if you are motivated enough.


    I didn't see it as Oliver smirking. I thought he looked a bit annoyed and exasperated. He was not angry about it. We are not talking about Oliver's reaction. We are talking about merits of a character.

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  77. ShannonNovember 13, 2014 at 7:02 AM

    They were...very. Cupid is fun, crazy, but fun! (Best combo ever Lol). I think next week will be MUCH better than tonight.

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  78. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 7:06 AM

    Oliver is still learning sometimes truth works better than lies in protecting people. Look at Thea situation. He brought that upon himself. He clearly knew she was dissatisfied by all the lies. He could have easily revealed somethings from his past and explained to her why he can't say anything more. Instead he treated her like the 12 year old he left before the island.


    I am sure Quentin is not going to simply forgive Laurel for her deception. Then what was the point of this whole drama. I'd rather this story line of keeping a child's death from a parent thing never happened. I hate it with all my being and it just gives fodder for people to hate Laurel more.

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  79. ShannonNovember 13, 2014 at 7:06 AM

    I'm sorry, I don't have " a problem" and TPTB said that it would be way back, Sooo the fact that it wasn't, was THE problem. Maybe you missed it.

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  80. tvgeekNovember 13, 2014 at 7:08 AM

    I honestly think I'm the only one who thinks this but laurel and her trainer have more chemistry then her and Oliver. I thought the episode was good and the ending has me interested.

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  81. ShannonNovember 13, 2014 at 7:14 AM

    Omg, that ex line...I was so annoyed, like really?? I literally yelled out, "are you serious?" That was upsetting me on a few levels. I facepalmed right then and there.

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  82. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 7:18 AM

    I think we can agree that it's highly unlikely that Ted is going to be intentionally telling anyone who the Arrow is even if he figures it out.. My guess is Ted is smarter than that seeing as he himself was a undercover vigilante and knows the value of a secret identity.. Even if Laurel apparently does not. XD


    To me may in fact be worse or more dangerous Laurel was so nonchalant about it. Laurel casually mentioning to someone she barely knows that they dated was nothing on its own maybe, but if Ted causally mentions it to someone thinking it means nothing it could lead to something much bigger.

    Ask a detective or investigator how many cases break because of some seemingly innocuous comment someone did not think would mean anything. More than most people would believe. One factoid can change the way you look at everything else since it can add context.


    There is no upside to her saying what she did and a lot of potential downside... So why say it?

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  83. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 7:19 AM

    Oh no. I think so too. Till this episode I found their scenes bland. But this episode showed some spark.

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  84. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 7:30 AM

    I saw his smirk as a sign the writers were aware of how ridiculous it was for Laurel to do that. So they wrote what I also thought was a look of exasperation into the script as a sort of shared inside joke with the audience.


    Their way of saying, "Can you believe she just did that?" XD

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  85. SparkyNovember 13, 2014 at 7:54 AM

    I would think its with Dig being a soldier and leave no brother behind. At least in this episode.

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  86. SparkyNovember 13, 2014 at 7:56 AM

    Marc Guggenhein said it in several interviews during and after comic con. So thats how people got that impression.

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  87. MeatyStakesNovember 13, 2014 at 7:59 AM

    I admit I might have, haven't been keeping with too many spoilers, so when I saw the promo for this episode once and reading the episode synopsis, I thought it was about Ted, but I have to agree that the promo alone was very Roy centric :/


    But yeah, since I hadn't pay too much mind to spoilers, I just went along with the episode.

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  88. Mister J81November 13, 2014 at 8:12 AM

    Boxing glove arrow, Arsenal and Cupid. Very nice!
    So... Cupid is Sara's killer?? I'm not familiar with the character but I know she's obsessed with Arrow so taking out his ex makes sense. If not, I'm going with Thea.

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  89. ShannonNovember 13, 2014 at 8:15 AM

    Ok. Understandable. I do that too with most my shows (stay in the dark) but during our summer hiatuses, I need the spoilers for survival. Ha.

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  90. MeatyStakesNovember 13, 2014 at 8:20 AM

    Ya, I know :), for me it's like a "different show, different stroke" kind of things. For GoT I ear every spoiler I get, for AoS I just get into tumblr, for the blacklist I avoid all spoilers, and I really don't know what's the metric of the choice.

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  91. PearcecymruNovember 13, 2014 at 8:22 AM

    I enjoyed the ep, not amazing like the others this season but it's one of my favourite shows so I always love watching it:)

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  92. MeatyStakesNovember 13, 2014 at 8:23 AM

    Yeah, after some comments I get that, it definitely seems to be some sort of what was said was not what was broadcasted, and that is a bummer. We all have our expectations, and it's vexing when they are not met, specially when there was validity in them.


    As someone who saw the promo once and just read the synopsis, I mad e myself the idea it was a Ted Grant episode with a bit of Roy, so that's what I got.

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  93. NiceGuyVanNovember 13, 2014 at 8:50 AM

    Oliver should just said I'll train you instead at the hospital, cuz you know she wasn't gonna listen... "face.palm"

    Good thing Roy thinking he killed Sara is out of the picture, tho hope he stops feeling guilty for the cop soon, so he can be the Arsenal. It was cool he asked Oliver not to abandon him, said to him he trust him always. Now I just wish that applies moving onwards.



    I got mad at Laurel 2 times this episode.
    First when she said the Arrow was an ex. Shit if that ain't a hint to his identity idk what is. Good thing Ted is a good fella tho.
    Second when she thought Oliver got Ted arrested. Like really you do know you day job right, what does experience tell you.


    Loved the Glove Arrow to the Face.
    And next up is the Love Arrow?

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  94. ShannonNovember 13, 2014 at 9:18 AM

    Lol!! Same. Certain shows. I do tidbits. Others, I'm in the dark completely. Like, I'm good with interviews, sneak peeks, and a few spoiler pics. But I don't read synopsis', watch Canadian Promos, or read Episode preview articles. (The ones that get to watch the episodes before it officially airs then gives us the run down). I hate major spoilers and I also don't like to read too many fan theories, (well depending on who it is) b/c if they're dead on, I mean REALLY dead on, it kinda ruins the thrill for me during the new episode. But that's only if the show itself isn't making it so obvious that that's where it's headed.

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  95. ViKiNovember 13, 2014 at 9:43 AM

    Laurel and Oliver have zero chemistry, from episode 1...

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  96. ViKiNovember 13, 2014 at 10:00 AM

    I wouldn't blame Oliver, he's always rescuing Laurel

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  97. lsbloomNovember 13, 2014 at 10:18 AM

    They were really heavy handed trying to parallel the Ted+Apprentice and Oliver+Roy line and they didn't really add up. The problem with Roy wasn't that he was inherently a killer; the problem was he (thought, using the worst of TV tropes to make it work) was under the influence of mirakuru. That wasn't his fault, it wasn't something he could control. I hate plots based on crappy explanations and assumptions. Have a coherent conversation with each other, people. Now, Oliver, Oliver has killed people, but guess we aren’t mentioning that this episode. Oh well, if getting full Felicity attention while dealing with the major mystery of the season so far isn't enough to hold my interest, then we really need to work on the writing and directing. Sorry Roy.

    Then there just too many WTF moments:
    +Our first Ted teaching moment: it’s about how you get up. So as soon as Laurel is ready to “get up” He’s like yep done for the day.
    +Laurel yells at Oliver for the police arresting Ted. Did Oliver join SCPD and I missed it?
    +Ted's apprentice sticks a gun to his chest and he can't disarm him--doesn't even try.
    +Ted's fighting was terrible--the man can't throw a very competent-looking punch.
    +Ted's apprentice takes hostages, but leaves them their phones.
    +Laurel not hesitating to call Team Arrow (which she is not a part of apparently) when she gets in trouble—I thought you "could handle it"? Please don’t be a pattern. In or out chicky, if you don’t want his advice he shouldn’t have to come save you when he’s proven right. And PS to the writers, can’t you make her right like ever? The closest we got was she didn’t climb over Diggle trying to kill Roy in the Foundry.
    +Telling Ted that she used to date the Arrow—it’s still a secret identity, right?
    +Glossing over all the peeps Oliver has killed in the last 6 years
    +Roy’s like “Um, killed Sara. Byeee.” In front of Laurel and everybody, and then just walks out.
    +Ted doesn’t want Oliver to stick with Roy, but has no problem training Laurel.
    +Diggle is all—get rid of Roy. Either it is latent jealousy springing from the fact he still has to wear a ski mask, or they just needed the plotlines to align
    +Roy wasn’t on the rooftop with Sara, but he dreamed of what she said?
    +Laurel like deciding the law. “I made sure it fell within the statute of limitations” those don’t change. And as DA getting charges dropped on someone she is providing the alibi for. Haven’t the writers even seen one episode of Law and Order? (There are like 200 of them on multiple continents.) If she’s got this much power inside the courtroom, why the heck would she need to go outside of it?
    +Giving yourself a tag line that rhymes your name with “stupid.”

    Counterpoint: the good bits
    "Mine's bigger."

    “Is that the dinosaur with the plates on its back?”


    And Felicity's forensic findings that the arrows that killed Sara weren't consistent with an archer "of normal height" I laughed so hard. Hahaaha


    Also, this is the first episode I enjoyed the flashbacks. I think the chick from Wolverine is super interesting. And I like the balance of competency and goofiness Hong Kong Ollie has.

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  98. lsbloomNovember 13, 2014 at 10:37 AM

    Aw crap. I'm going to be calling him Flipper from now on. :-)

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  99. DarqueModeNovember 13, 2014 at 10:39 AM

    Ha! XD
    I laughed so hard when she said "of normal height" too!
    Just bad, bad writing all around when it comes to her forensic skills this time!


    Most of those aspects irked me a little too. Why I only rated the episode "Good" in the poll.
    - I have seen more than enough of Laurel's training!
    There is a reason training sessions generally occur in a montage in movies. Even the good scenes are kinda boring! XD


    I didn't mind the Ted v Arrow fight so much, but I did wonder why Ted did not even try to disarm whatshisname.


    I also do not have issue with Oliver killing people in the past. I think he should occasionally kill now as well. His doing the job halfway and not truly stopping the villains in any permanent way has come back to bite him in the ass more than once!

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  100. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 10:52 AM

    I laughed so hard reading this. LOL. This is why this episode felt boring for me. Hong Kong flash backs, Ted Grant and Oliver Roy bromance was good. But the episode as a whole was lackluster due to lack of tight script.

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  101. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 11:23 AM

    Yes on second thought the thoughtful and kind Diggle we know would never ask to just chuck someone out. If he was talking about justice it would have made sense to turn him over to authorities.

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  102. SparkyNovember 13, 2014 at 11:25 AM

    I got used to it last season. And when the Felicity centric episode actually was a Felicity centric episode i got my hopes up a bit. But when i saw that Colton Haynes didnt do any interviews for the episode i knew what was up. And the fact that J.R Ramirez & MG were doing the majority of interviews just made it obvious. I just need to check who does the promotional interviews that week to know who a certain episodes revolves around.

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  103. JulianaNovember 13, 2014 at 11:36 AM

    Add to the pile that awful dinner with the Lances that Sara and Oliver went together. Sigh.

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  104. JulianaNovember 13, 2014 at 11:43 AM

    If that's what Diggle thinks, I just don't understand why he never told Oliver to cut Roy loose before this episode, since everyone knows that Roy killed a cop under the influence of Mirakuru. So, for me, the one who's operating under double standards is Diggle, not Oliver. Kill a cop: Ok, you can hang with us. Kill Sara on the same circumstances: Cut him loose. It doesn't make much sense to me.

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  105. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 11:44 AM

    True. Also Oliver killed a bunch of people in season 1. Diggle is living with that.

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  106. JulianaNovember 13, 2014 at 11:56 AM

    I love the show, but sometimes I get disappointed because the writters expect viewers to shut their brains for a few moments to accept some of the drama. When I heard Diggle saying the double standards line in the promo I was expecting a big ethical dilemma but seeing in the episode it only made for some really unnacessary antagonism in the team. I say unnacessary because I doubt anyone thought that Oliver would just dump Roy, specially after he put Malcolm freaking Merlyn under his protection.
    The same goes for Laurel's line "we used to date"... It was probably written as a joke, but why on earth would Laurel say that? Realistically everyone in Starling must be curious to know who the vigilante is and she hinted his identity like it was no big deal. Of course that will not have any consequences, and even if Ted find out eventually who the Arrow is, is not going to because of that line, but do you see my point? They can't make a big deal about Oliver's identity with Barry and act like he didn't care with Ted? That's just lazy.

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  107. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 12:01 PM

    That is why I didn't like this episode much. There was a lot of out of character moments, hypocrisy from Oliver and weird forensic details in this episode. Also the apprentice parallel was really on the nose. I wish they had taken some more time on Roy's troubled mind. The acting was solid this episode except the scene where Roy reveals to Oliver and Laurel he killed Sara. That was such a badly directed and acted scene. I will never rewatch this episode. It bored me very much.

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  108. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 12:05 PM

    You were right and I was wrong. Roy was hardly there this episode :( We can't go with promotional interviews either. DR did some interviews before episode 3. It was hardly Diggle episode. But I will say Diggle had more of a presence that episode than Roy had in this one.

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  109. SparkyNovember 13, 2014 at 12:10 PM

    Yeah but JB & Willa interviews were released the day of the episode also so i was expecting it not being completely a Diggle centric episode. But i am getting excited for 3x07 for the Felicity/Diggle big moment and seems ARGUS with Lyla play a big role in crossover so hoping for quite a bit of Diggle there.

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  110. JulianaNovember 13, 2014 at 12:19 PM

    The scene you mentioned was very anticlimatic, what I liked in Roy's storyline this week was the fact that Oliver was the one who told him about him killing the cop, not Felicity. This episode did a good job reinforcing the mentor/apprentice relationship between them.
    I'm also not going to rewatch this episode. I hope next week will live up to my expectations (they're very very very high, sigh).

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  111. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 12:21 PM

    The things I hear about next three episodes are really interesting. I am really excited for this. I think we need to sit through couple of filler episodes every year. Also I guess this is what must have felt for the non Felicity fans last week. LOL

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  112. lilah_lilahNovember 13, 2014 at 12:22 PM

    And the amount of times that she was kidnapped and someone tried to break into her house.

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  113. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 12:28 PM

    I like the little brother vibe Oliver has with Roy. It's kind of like the relationship between Diggle and Felicity. Very protective and caring. Now Diggle and Oliver has a really mature friendship. Felicity and Roy has a fun and trusting vibe going on. It's fun to see all these relationships being explored. I am a bit disappointed with the fact that for the past 6 months Laurel has known members of Team Arrow and she visits the foundry frequently yet they are unable to show a little bit more connection between Laurel and these 3 characters. She still feels like a stranger there.


    I have gargantuan (quoting Emily here) expectations for next three episodes. They better deliver.

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  114. KokyNovember 13, 2014 at 12:37 PM

    No it WAS ooc, I mean even if Roy did kill Sara, he wasn't in his right mind he doesn't even remember doing it, he didn't kill her because he went rogue and now he needs to be stopped before he kills more innocent people on the contrary, he is a hero and he saves lives he even confessed the second he suspected that he killed Sara and he knew what that would mean and he was willing to turn in himself and anyone can see that the guilt is killing him so he needs support not condemnation, besides Diggle already forgave him for killing the cop so why is it different now? Just because Sara is family? I'm pretty sure the cop had a family too, so when he said we can't have two sets of rules he was contradicting himself imo. As for Malcolm, I know that he is a terrorist and that he deserves to die (I really hate him btw) but Oliver letting Nyssa kill Malcolm is no different from killing him himself, Oliver is not a killer anymore and he doesn't get to decide who lives and who dies he can no longer be a judge a jury and an executioner even if Malcolm deserves to be killed and as it turned out, Malcolm didn't kill Sara, yeah he killed A LOT but he didn't commit the crime they were actively punishing him for it.

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  115. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 12:50 PM

    Now that I thought about it I do agree with you about Roy situation. It was hypocritical of Diggle to ask Oliver to drop Roy. Lazy writing to create antagonism between team members.


    As for Malcolm situation I can't get behind Oliver's decision of letting Malcolm go scott free. IMO more than the reason of LoA working in Starling it was his weakness for Thea that made him do it. I didn't mind Diggle asking him to take Malcolm out. Didn't find it ooc. He is a terrorist who killed in sound mind 503 people. It was Oliver in season 2 who took the no kill vow. Before that Diggle was fine with Oliver punishing bad guys by executing them. Only problem he had with Oliver when he joined Oliver in season 1 was Oliver had a narrow vision and only worked the list. As a special forces veteran I am sure he must have executed lot of bad people.

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  116. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 1:06 PM

    I thought Oliver was a hypocrite in painting Ted like a big bad monster for killing one guy while Oliver had a list of executions in his wake. But I think his reasoning for stopping Laurel from training was solid except the way he went about it was annoying. She is grieving and has made this decision because her sister was a mask and was killed brutally. She was not thinking clearly two episodes before when she got beaten up. It's right of Oliver to worry she will end up in danger by learning to fight. But the high handed way did it ended up motivating Laurel more.

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  117. JulianaNovember 13, 2014 at 2:01 PM

    Even after she found out his identity, Oliver always kept Laurel out of Arrow business, he let her help him through the DA's office, but that was it. Yesterday he said that it was to protect her, but I also don't see what kind of part she can play in the team. She's not ready to go to the field, at least not in the capacity that team Arrow require, so she'll be a liability; she also doesn't have much to do in the foundry and Oliver already have two very good friends that are a lot better at giving him advice and pep talks than Laurel is, since they're very much at odds all the time lately and Dig and Felicity know more about his post island struggles. All that considered I think they should work on Laurel politeness. She sounds almost authoritary towards Dig and Felicity and constantly alienates them. Every other character that interacts with Team Arrow show more respect to the sidekicks than her, it's annoying.


    This show is lacking in female interactions! Last season we had Laurel/Thea, Laurel/Sara, Sara/Felicity, Moira/Thea, Moira/Felicity. This season we only had some Nyssa and Laurel bonding, which was great, but not nearly enough!

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  118. Ambar Moreno CandelasNovember 13, 2014 at 2:19 PM

    Couldn't agree more too! I can't stand Laurel anymore, I just can not anymore! Her mistakes, her acting, everything. Even their faces when Katie overacts. I'm tired of producers making fun about the fans. An center episode of Roy?? Please say it was an episode of Laurel and Ted! I have lost respect for some producers of this show. I fully understand that the death of her sister is painful, but I don't understand her way of acting. Neither do I understand why she wants to become a heroine just because her sister was. It's like if my sister is a doctor and she dies and I decide to become a doctor, when perhaps I'm not ready for that and it's not my destiny. But yes, the rest of the episode was good and I can't wait to see Cupid!!!

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  119. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM

    I was not talking about Laurel's role in the team which is minimal as of now and I understand that. It's just Laurel called Oliver and co. my friends today. They have been working together however lightly it may be for 6 months. Also in Arrow 2.5 comics we see Laurel talking to Digg cordialy as if they are friends. Nothing of that sort translates on screen. To be honest comic book Laurel seems lovely. I am not saying she needs to be BFFs with the guys. But at least show some familiarity.


    I am not sure its the politeness that is lacking or if it is the body language of the actress. She gives of a confrontational vibe with whomever she shares screen space with. It's always like she is ready to go to battle. I hope as she progresses in training and getting control of her life they change this aspect of the character too.


    Female bonding!! What a concept. Has any two females actually bonded in this show? There are lasting male male friendships and male female friendships in this show but not even one female female friendship.They tried with Thea and Laurel but that didn't go any where. Just one scene per season. Felicity has two good female friends in Central City.. which is 2 more than what she had in Starling City.

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  120. IraNikiNovember 13, 2014 at 2:25 PM

    Don't be so harsh on Laurel. She respects Oliver's secret and she will never tell someone about it without Oliver's permission. She told Ted, that Arrow is her ex, to explain why Arrow is so overprotective and why they fight. She was telling Ted about herself. She had told him about her feelings and secrets before. Clearly she already cares about him and she trusts him. She knows that Ted won't investigate her exes to find out who the Arrow is or at least she believes he won't.

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  121. JulianaNovember 13, 2014 at 3:33 PM

    I agree with you, and I also sympathize more with comics Laurel (Arrow comics, I've only started Green Arrow). I was actually really surprised with her and Diggle in the comics, the show made me think that Dig didn't like Laurel much, go figure.
    If they worked on this cofrontational vibe it would be great, a woman can be strong minded and not be agressive. Laurel needs someone she can be light with, like she used to be with Tommy. Maybe Ted, but I really have no idea where they're going with their relationship.

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  122. Robert BensonNovember 13, 2014 at 3:39 PM

    I think the plot in Hong Kong is boring...Diggle is just a waste of a character, and he's ALWAYS wrong in his little "conversations" with Arrow. I will never buy Laurel as Black Canary...they made a mistake with killing Sara (they killed the wrong sister). And the writing on Arrow seems clunky at times; THE FLASH is already a better show.

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  123. FringeNovember 13, 2014 at 3:51 PM

    Great episode !!!

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  124. Gaia Di LorenzoNovember 13, 2014 at 4:13 PM

    Wish Oliver would accept Laurel training. I really hope it doesn't lead to a Lauliver angst all season :/

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  125. CeryleNovember 13, 2014 at 6:42 PM

    Meh, it was OK – a bit of a letdown after last week's explosive ending. The Hong Kong flashbacks weren't memorable, and the writers tried too hard to set up the parallel between Ted/Isaac and Oliver/Roy. This show has parallels like Laurel has personal problems but this one felt so contrived. And I didn't like the way they used Diggle to make the parallel happen; it seemed totally out of character for him to insist they abandon Roy. Usually Dig's the one talking Oliver out of impulsive, emotion-driven decisions. Let's not sacrifice his character for the sake of plot.


    Boxing glove-arrow? Awesome. And the last line made me laugh. Definitely looking forward to next week!

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  126. O D ANovember 13, 2014 at 7:35 PM

    As of now with this episode it looks like Ted really respects Laurel and her inner strength. Which is what laurel needs right now. Some one to believe she can do what she sets out to do. Romance may or may not happen. But as of now I like their dynamic. I hope they bring Ted back to the show. The actor has not been on set after this episode. I hope they have already shot some bulk scenes for later episodes with JRR. I don't want the Isobel Rochev treatment for Wild Cat.


    If the writers actually believe the Arrow comics dynamics between Team Arrow and Laurel is what is real then I don't understand why will they not give her some friendly scenes between these characters? Let's hope they improve.

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  127. MeatyStakesNovember 14, 2014 at 5:21 AM

    Nah man, not even your "coming out" comparison holds weight.


    "One of my exes is gay"


    IT'S OLIVER QUEEN!! Really, this is such a non issue IDK, it is a vague connection at most, and your gay comparison only makes it obvious.

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  128. MeatyStakesNovember 14, 2014 at 5:23 AM

    While I don't agree was Oliver "outed" by Laurel, I completely agree it is UNNECESSARY to bring others characters (Felicity) into this.


    This fandom's necessity to pit Laurel against Felicity is so goddamned idiotic. Shipping hurts lives!!

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  129. O D ANovember 14, 2014 at 7:13 AM

    I was not blaming the character Laurel I was questioning the writing choice and the necessity of that dialogue. Are we supposed to see a reaction from wildcat when Laurel says that? It is such a careless throw away dialogue. This is as stupid as Diggle walking in without mask in the monastry looking for Malcolm. If they are keeping secret identities it needs to treated like one. I was also annoyed by Oliver taking the hoodie and mask off to talk to Laurel in the open. When does Oliver do that?


    I must have sounded harsh against @Jenna but I am guilty of once bringing up Laurel when merits of Felicity as a character was discussed. I was called out on it. I take extra care not to bring two ladies in the same discussion unless it is a scene they share or someone else brings it up.

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  130. DarqueModeNovember 14, 2014 at 9:34 AM

    To me the comparison is spot on...
    It is an issue of privacy and secrecy. One does not reveal secrets or hint about them. Period. The act of sharing the secrets is a betrayal whether or not it leads to negative consequences. It is not a Laurel thing either since I would react the same way no matter who over-shared.





    I see Oliver react after Laurel outs him by saying, "You cannot be serious" with an exasperated look on his face... In other words I take it like he did. It was so ridiculous he does not even know how to react to her mistake and careless attitude.



    No point in continuing the debate since we will never see it the same way. Agree to disagree.

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  131. JoNovember 15, 2014 at 6:53 AM

    I didn't like it. That's not to say it wasn't a good episode. I do not like the character of Roy and actually was with Diggle on the whole 'cutting him loose thing'.

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  132. O D ANovember 16, 2014 at 4:18 PM

    Did Diggle actually ask Oliver to kill Malcolm that episode? I thought he asked Oliver to let Nyssa kill Malcolm. Not much better I know.

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  133. KokyNovember 16, 2014 at 4:27 PM

    No Diggle didn't tell Oliver to do it, he told him that he understands that he made a vow not to kill again but Nyssa didn't so he should let her kill Malcolm, exactly not much better at all, Oliver looking the other way while Nyssa does the dirty work is no different than him killing Malcolm himself imo.

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  134. O D ANovember 16, 2014 at 6:23 PM

    I agree Diggle asking Oliver to kill could have been avoided. I think they wanted to establish only way to stop Malcolm is by killing him and Oliver's decision is going to come bite him in his ass. They why they made the wisest person in the show do it. If I was in Diggle's place I would say the same. I hate the no kill rule.

    Lisa who does the review said She thinks Diggle and Felicity does not know about Roy killing those cops. What do you think? I think they both knew.

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  135. KokyNovember 16, 2014 at 8:46 PM

    Of course his decision will backfire on him, we'll see. Why do you hate the no kill rule? Don't get me wrong I hate Malcolm so much and he deserves to die, but killing someone no matter how or what he is shouldn't be an easy thing.

    Actually that's a very interesting theory, they didn't really show them finding out if I remember correctly but I just assumed that they saw the news of the man in the red hood killing a cop on TV and that's why Felicity lied to him about what happened when he asked her in "Unthinkable" because if the worst thing he did during his Mirakuru episode was breaking Oliver's knee and almost killing Thea then she would've told him, he was going to find out about Oliver's knee anyway and he can handle knowing what he did to Thea and Sin, so the only reason she would lie is to protect him from finding out that he killed an innocent man, I need to rewatch "Seeing Red".

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  136. O D ANovember 16, 2014 at 9:06 PM

    The no kill rule irks me in all kind of hero shows because the villains always comes back. I believe when the crime is too big someone should take them out at least in fiction. I hate it when villains return after a hero stops him and then kills another bunch of people. Villains like joker and scarecrow in batman world are examples. Batman stops them incarcerates them somewhere they break out again kill a bunch of innocent people hero stops them again its a vicious cycle. I am talking about taking out genocidal villains not someone like those in rogues gallery in The Flash who just robs and not take lives. Malcolm killed 503 people and would have killed at least double the amount had Felicity and Lance not deactivated the device and for what because his wife died? Any court would give him death sentence. But in Malcolm's case he would somehow get out even if he is caught. So where is justice and what stops him from planning another genocide next time some emotional pain is inflicted upon him?

    I don't we are shown Oliver telling Diggle and Felicity about the cop's murder. I always assumed they knew. Just like Diggle and Roy knew about Thea's parentage where as Laurel did not know.

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  137. KokyNovember 16, 2014 at 9:46 PM

    Actually I don't like batman so I'm not familiar with his villains but I understand what you mean, but they can't have a new villain every week they will run out of ideas eventually so there has to be a repeat villains lol plus some villains are so popular and people want to them again, like Malcolm for example, people love him (I have no idea why) and I agree with you about him, he is a sick twisted misguided psycho who didn't only kill 503 people, everyone forgot the people he killed during season 1 and the people he killed in season 2 and let's not forget the Queen's Gambit crew and Robert and that other man on the life raft indirectly and he was the reason Oliver and Sara went through those years of torture and every person they killed he shares the blame with them. I agree he deserves to die and he will escape from prison but the whole point of the no kill rule is that it's not Oliver's job to decide who dies and who doesn't anymore, he can't be a cold-blooded killer even if the person he is killing is a scum, and especially since the guy in question is Thea And Tommy's father, Tommy whose death was the whole reason Oliver made that vow in the first place, it's a very difficult situation and I felt bad for Oliver.


    OK I just watched "Seeing Red", Thea and Dig saw that Roy killed a cop and injured the other one severely on the news together and later when Sara was asking Oliver about how many people are they going to let Roy kill before Oliver gives up on him, Felicity was in the foundry with them and she knew the police was looking for Roy, plus I'm sure she saw the news because she always does.

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  138. O D ANovember 16, 2014 at 10:08 PM

    Thanks for the clarification on Seeing Red.

    I get why Oliver made the decision and in Oliver's case unlike other heroes he started as a killer. He had to kill bad people and people whom he didn't know anything about in his previous life. So I get why he doesn't want to fall back into his old ways.

    I love Malcolm too. He was and is deliciously evil. But how much ever he love Thea I can never see him as a grey character. It's a comic book curse that great villains always comes back. Sometimes they come back and wreack havoc into innocent people's lives only to spite heroes. We end up thinking after sometime is the heroism worth it if they always come back? Sometimes the villains come back change their colors and work with heroes that's always fun. But in Malcolm's case I am bitter he never got punished for his crimes in the first place.

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  139. KokyNovember 16, 2014 at 10:46 PM

    You're welcome.

    My point exactly, he can't start killing again because that would be character regression and this is the origin story of GA so he has to evolve as a hero not go back to being a killer especially since he is an assassin in the flashbacks.

    I never liked him even before we knew that he is the dark archer. "We end up thinking after sometime is the heroism worth it if they always come back?" good question. "Sometimes the villains come back change their colors and work with heroes that's always fun." I always enjoy that.

    Don't get me started on Malcolm, dude you were killed so stay dead, you don't deserve to be alive and well.

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  140. O D ANovember 17, 2014 at 7:48 PM

    I have issues with any show where the dead won't stay dead. That's why I stopped watching TVD and always gets bored with comics. I liked Arrow because it was grounded in reality. If we see a body of someone it means they are gone. Malcolm I choked and got on with it mainly because I love JB and also because we were never shown Malcolm's grave or body ever again. Now if they bring back Tommy or Sara (even though I love her and miss her) I will be terribly disappointed.

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  141. KokyNovember 18, 2014 at 5:02 PM

    I hate when the dead magically come back too and you know what's worse, when they use the same actor but for a different role because he was so popular and they can't bring him back so let's write him exactly the same but with a different name. I don't think they will bring Sara or Tommy back for real but in flashbacks only, Malcolm was a special case (hopefully).

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  142. O D ANovember 18, 2014 at 6:22 PM

    Hopefully. But MG on two instances said they are bringing back Tommy and Sara but in a very un expected shocking way.

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  143. KokyNovember 18, 2014 at 7:15 PM

    Here's hoping.

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