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POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - Soul Survivor?

22 Oct 2014

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218 comments:

  1. Misty Pebworth22 October 2014 at 03:05

    Mixed feelings. Overall I enjoyed the episode, but it was a little bland. My biggest problem was wanting deanmon to last a bit longer, instead of essentially just having to worry about the Mark again, which is what we did last season. They wasted the beautiful opportunity to make dean the main bad guy of the season and have a beautiful finale with dean coming back. Instead, we have some lame introduction of someone we don't care about at all and isn't half as interesting.
    Alas.
    But the episode wasn't terrible. Just going to miss deanmon. Over way too fast.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Napolean22 October 2014 at 03:07

    There's no time to view. But anyway wanna watch this. All are saying this episode is good.

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  3. Alii Joee22 October 2014 at 03:08

    WHAAAAT ??? No more deanmon ? Are you serious ? The most exciting thing about this show since god knows when and all we get is 3 episodes ? Well that sucks.

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  4. Ambar Moreno Candelas22 October 2014 at 03:12

    Was amazing!!! :D Human!Dean again? I get it, but to soon. Demon Dean was more interesting but I love Dean back :) I wanted a scene with Sam and Dean at the end of this episode :(

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  5. Shannon22 October 2014 at 03:16

    Voted Good. Eh it was better than what I was previously shown since this season started. But of course the ONE thing that I really wanted to see didn't even happen. SMH. Did like the effects of Castiel's eyes and Dean's eyes in that scene though. And was hoping for MUCH more than that between the two. The entire ten min, I said this can't be it. He's faking. But I guess he wasn't. And man did I feel bad for Sammy through all of that. Idt Dean is back to being Dean. But if it is, that was just disappointing, if they were going to resolve it that quickly, they shouldn't have even bothered. Ohhh fav. Scene. Sam looking at the pics of our beloved characters and smiling.

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  6. MythAl22 October 2014 at 03:20

    I feel so disappointed. That was so anti-climatic. And even after that, I was so hoping for a scene between real Dean and Sam, and we get Dean and Castiel. Meh.

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  7. Ann6522 October 2014 at 03:26

    Seemed a bit anticlimatic - like the writers and producers hsd the chance to ski down the expert hill but, at the last minute, chose the bunny slope. It was ok but could have been better.

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  8. Morrigan_257522 October 2014 at 03:29

    Sad they ended Demon Dean storyline so quickly. I hope they don't drop the MoC story as well (I know it was referenced but you never know when it comes to Dean).

    I hope this borrowed grave thing doesn't become the norm, I'd hate a story that has Cash being a Grace Vampire of sorts.

    Loved every single minute of Dean/Sam and couldn't believe how far Sam was willing to go to find Dean.

    The Crowly stuff is entering (as

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  9. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 03:32

    Who cares about Demon Dean being gone, this storyline was over and done the minute it was revealed Deanmon was basically just a very cranky version of normal Dean.
    Sam has been useful and clever for 3 episodes in a row. Such a thing had not happened since season 3.

    ReplyDelete
  10. chris68422 October 2014 at 03:32

    I'm calling it- the season peaked in episode 2. On a random side note, anyone else bothered that a demon (which is black smoke) set himself on fire? Or that Sam never even tried to use salt lines to trap Dean?

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  11. Thirty22 October 2014 at 03:34

    Agreed. Everyone had a chance to shine. Interested in just where it goes from here.

    ReplyDelete
  12. a.a.ron22 October 2014 at 03:35

    Didnt really care for it. Curing dean was to simple. Im over the whole cas and his grace plot. I mean he didnt have grace before or Anna for that matter and they were perfectly fine just human. But now all of a sudden they cant live without it.
    When they showed the redhead at the end I thought "Oh shit is abbadaon somehow back?!?" my hope was shattered when the camera showed her face and it wasnt her. Another villian added for shock value but I didnt get anything from it because there was no relation to anything inreagards to her. Its like cole (is that his name idr?) but hes probably not going to be back till like the very last episode. A one and done type thing.

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  13. MythAl22 October 2014 at 03:36

    Good call Chris. He could've used salt to stop Dean. But the episode was written by the duo from hell, so forgeting about cannon is expected.


    BTW, remember when Sam was about to cure Crowley and his hand was glowing? Why the same didn't happen with the blood Sam was using to cure his brother?

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  14. chris68422 October 2014 at 03:37

    I liked the tension and that Dean took a break from the angst. I'm not looking forward to all of the silent sobbing to come - nor to going back to cases of the week.

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  15. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 03:40

    Wasn't Sam glowing because of the trials ?

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  16. MythAl22 October 2014 at 03:41

    Oh and that was the so horrible thing Sam did to try to find his brother. Really? These guys kill vessels for God's sake. He even tried to stop Lester to complete the deal. Trying so hard to make Sam "monstruous" writers? Sigh.

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  17. Thirty22 October 2014 at 03:42

    That it was the trials is how I saw it. That's why he was a mess at the start of the next season.

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  18. MythAl22 October 2014 at 03:42

    Yeah right, I forgot about the trials. Thank you.

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  19. chris68422 October 2014 at 03:45

    Yeah, that was anticlimactic as well. He didn't even want the guy to make a deal and tried to stop him. I have a tiny sliver of hope that maybe Sam used blood bank blood rather than his own this time because something's going on with the demon blood, but only a sliver.

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  20. Hellboy22 October 2014 at 03:45

    Which is also why he used blessed donor blood instead of his own.

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  21. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 03:46

    Maybe I'm just being overly optimist, but I'm hoping the "quiet time" we're about to have will not be used by Dean to wallow in self-pity and guilt, although that would be a pretty safe assumption.
    I hope the show is getting back to simpler things. If the writers want to mend the brothers' relationship and make it meaninful again, a period of time without a bad guy would be the best way I think.

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  22. elle j.22 October 2014 at 03:48

    It was a good episode. Curing Dean did seem anti-climatic, but I think the reason is the best part of this episode had already been seen thanks to the sneak peaks and previews shown at (I think) Comic Con. I see the writers are still playing tit for tat when it comes to Sam and Dean. Dean killed a man willing to make a demonic deal to kill his cheating wife. Sam uses another man as bait to summon a crossroads demon to get intel on Dean, only the man jumps at the chance to have his cheating wife killed before Sam can stop the deal from being finalized. Does the fact that both of these strangers wanted to have their wives kill obsolve Sam and Dean from their deaths? Not judging, it's just a question I'm asking.

    If the writers were smart, they would have Sam and Dean sit down for a serious talk. We know from way back when in "The Mystery Spot" the potential for Sam to go off the rails existed if he lost Dean or he was trying to save him. That hasn't changed from what we learned about the lengths Sam went through once again to save Dean in this episode. I would love for Sam to tell Dean that he was heading down that same rabbit hole, trying to find a way to pull Dean out of Purgatory. However, he met Amelia and saved him from that darkness. Dean would understand Sam on a whole nother level. Dean would apologize for his actions and words, proceeding to make things right between the brothers now that he is human. Clean slate all the way around and we would have the Winchesters back once again.

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  23. klutzy_girl22 October 2014 at 03:49

    Jensen's directing was great, as per usual. This episode was so bright, though, and it was nice but that weirded me out. LOL.

    Sad we don't get more of Demon Dean. And I'm pretty sure that in some form or another, he's hit every single one of Sam's insecurities over the years. And LOL at the divorce comment. So married.

    Who was that at the end?

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  24. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 03:53

    To be fair we'll get whole episodes of Sam and Dean on their own.
    Whereas Cass will be sent back with Hannah to do uninteresting stuff, because reasons.

    ReplyDelete
  25. chris68422 October 2014 at 03:53

    Which doesn't really make any sense. Either his confession purified his blood or it didn't. Sam thought the trials were purifying him, but he hadn't completed them, so he was still the same Sam. And if the purification came from the trials and not confessing, then there was no need for the confession last time around.

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  26. MythAl22 October 2014 at 03:56

    Probably Rowena, the witch.

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  27. chris68422 October 2014 at 04:00

    Too bad he hasn't had a good episode to direct since Weekend at Bobby's.

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  28. chris68422 October 2014 at 04:01

    Good call. I was going with random redhead, but I like your answer better.

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  29. chris68422 October 2014 at 04:03

    Dean will be wallowing. He tried to kill Sam. And before anyone says that wasn't Dean, anyone else notice how much the blond waitress looked like Mary?

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  30. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 04:04

    Tiny detail that really irks me : Demons using angel blades and holy oil IN HELL. Angel weapons have become so ridiculously common. I miss the variety of cool weapons SPN used to have. Stupid angel blades on every corner now.

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  31. gabygogo22 October 2014 at 04:09

    Going along with the salt thing, Deanmon said how as long as Sam kept making him human, he could break out of the cuffs, the demon trap no longer worked, so I don't think salt would have done anything honestly.

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  32. gabygogo22 October 2014 at 04:11

    I agree, they kept building it up to make Sam seem like a monster and it wasn't anything really...and the guy's soul didn't go to hell cuz the deal wasn't completed. Crowley said that in the last episode (though I'm sure it was just Deanmon saying it to make Sam feel bad) but I'm glad it wasn't anything bad...I get so frustrated with Sam sometimes that for once I felt excited that I am constantly rooting for him this season. Hope it continues!

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  33. chris68422 October 2014 at 04:37

    Prediction time - I think the remainder of the Mark of Cain story is going to be Dean deciding whether he wants to kill his brother. First, the mark is associated with murdering a brother. Second, Dean with his filters gone says he blames Sam for Mary's death. Dean as a demon has a soft spot for blonds who resemble Mary and beat up on or kills men who threaten them.

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  34. Hellboy22 October 2014 at 04:37

    They had Ruby's knife and the Colt, hardly a variety. Also, holy oil can be found on Earth, that's where Cas gets it in season 5.

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  35. Hellboy22 October 2014 at 04:40

    You misunderstand, Sam went with the blood bags instead of his own because there is a chance if he uses his blood the trials may pick up where they left off.

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  36. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 04:40

    Totally agree, it could easily have lasted a whole season, if they had tried to make Deanmon a complex, interesting character, fundamentally different from Dean.
    They clearly didn't so it's actually a good thing they got this out of the way. The perspective of spending the rest of the season with the "normal" brothers, unaffected physically or mentally, is something SPN hasn't done for a long time.

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  37. kerinda22 October 2014 at 04:42

    And that's why I did not want to watch anymore I hate that Carver does this too Sam But Damn Sam did something too find and Save Dean what more does the Fans want?

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  38. chris68422 October 2014 at 04:44

    True, Dean was mostly human at that point, but Sam didn't know the reason Dean got free until they met up face to face.

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  39. kerinda22 October 2014 at 04:46

    then how can Sam put holy water on him and nothing but last weeks Ep Sam did and it did something to Dean I do not know?

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  40. lala222 October 2014 at 04:47

    I'm sorry, but I did not care for this episode. I thought it was painfully anti-climatic for the end of the DD arc, but as BoxManLocke mentioned down below, the DD arc never actually got off the ground for me so this lackluster end is in line w/the entirety of the arc. DD never actually did anything worth noting, IMO, and certainly nothing that Dean should feel guilty about.

    IMO, the DD arc could have been very entertaining IF the writers had been willing to take some chances w/Dean and if they were willing to let it play out. I feel like the past three episodes have been a complete waste of time. What was the point of making Dean a demon? What was that? Why do that if you are not willing to let the character actually do bad things and if you want to end the arc after two episodes? It reminds me of the "Godstiel" arc. That had potential but then they dropped it an episode later and went w/the horrific Leviathans. I guess that's where this red-haired woman comes into play.

    I also thought the scene w/DD chasing down Sam was a little dull. I didn't feel the same tension I felt when demon-possessed Sam was chasing down Dean in BUABS or when SS was trying to murder Bobby. I feel like I must have missed the part when DD tried to kill Sam. Admittedly, I was doing something else while the episode was playing, but when did DD try to kill Sam? I saw him break down a door, but then Castiel grabbed him up. I guess I missed the part when DD tried to kill Sam.

    My mind zoned out during the Cas scenes. I did like the scene of Sam looking through the pictures. That was sweet.

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  41. lala222 October 2014 at 04:49

    Carver has been HORRIBLE for this show, IMO. He doesn't understand the characters - Sam especially - the show or the audience. There was no need to suggest Sam did monstrous things in his search for Dean, but Carver wants to make sure the track marks on Sam's back never fade.

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  42. Lise22 October 2014 at 04:50

    GREAT episode and Jensen is amazing director. Congratulations Jensen Ackles!

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  43. kerinda22 October 2014 at 04:50

    I just wish the Writers did not do it in the first place I want Dean human and this was a waste too.

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  44. chris68422 October 2014 at 04:50

    You think Sam would have really been thinking like that? And not to nitpick, but the trial was to cure a demon. I don't recall it specifying by your own blood. And besides, there was an incantation or something like that at the end.

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  45. lala222 October 2014 at 04:50

    That's what I thought. There was no time limit on the trials so presumably Sam could die if he ever cured a demon.

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  46. kerinda22 October 2014 at 04:52

    And that Sucks and I am sick of it too the point that I did not want too even see this season but I do for Jared I love him so much I went back and forth with this and Friday the 13th remake on AMC it was a great night.

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  47. Hellboy22 October 2014 at 04:53

    Considering how doing the trials was changing Sam, I think his own blood was necessary. I mean remember the glowing? It didn't seem like there needed to be an incantation to finalize it, just give the demon human blood and recite the Latin.

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  48. lala222 October 2014 at 04:53

    It was a waste, IMO, esp. since his time as a demon wasn't even all that entertaining . . . . . to me.

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  49. kerinda22 October 2014 at 04:54

    me too.

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  50. chris68422 October 2014 at 04:54

    He swung the hammer at Sam's head. Sam ducked and countered with a knife to Dean's throat. That was when Cas came in.

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  51. Hellboy22 October 2014 at 04:55

    People give these writers more shit then they deserve about "ignoring canon" and the one instance where they do something that makes sense canon wise, it gets nitpicked.

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  52. lala222 October 2014 at 04:58

    Ahhhh . . . I totally missed it b/c I was messing around on my laptop. Okay! Thanks :-)

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  53. lala222 October 2014 at 05:00

    Yeah . . . I think this is an instance of these writers actually remembering their own story, which is a miracle in and of itself!

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  54. lala222 October 2014 at 05:04

    I'm curious, did you like the length of the SS arc in S6? I ask b/c I thought that one could have also played out all year. I greatly enjoyed SS and would have been fine if that arc lasted the entire year. I also agree w/you that DD could have played out for an entire year or at least half a season if it had been well-written.

    The arc was so short that I really question its purpose. Other than the cool shot of Dean's eyes opening black, what was the point of making him a demon? There was no point that I can see.

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  55. Play225422 October 2014 at 05:14

    I Liked it and new Dean would be cured bye the end but Sam did not cut his palm and feed Dean his blood and said the words to cure him he just keep giving him blood till his eyes went back to normal. Are they even trying to keep up with the lure or they just doing shortcuts. I was hoping they keep Dean a demon for a bit longer maybe the blood would make him like Crowley and have human traits and he would help Sam on cases even if they dint have cases have Dean go after Crowley and have him turn back bye half way mark or when they came back. So what you gonna do i love the show and will keep watching but still a lil disappointed with Human dean back already.

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  56. Donna C22 October 2014 at 05:45

    Damn, that storyline with Castiel and Hannah is blah. If the dude's gonna be on the show, put him in the Winchesters' storyline somehow. If Heaven and Hell are relatively functioning, move on.

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  57. Donna C22 October 2014 at 05:48

    You're not alone. I didn't see them either. Even him yelling at Sam during the blood shots wasn't even that demon-y. He did similar things under the influence of the cursed coin ... and days when he was just pissy and felt like blaming Sam for stuff that wasn't under his control. Seems he likes to throw the Mary dying thing in Sam's face even though Mary dying was her own decision. Something Dean bore witness to first hand in that first time travel episode how many seasons ago that was.

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  58. Donna C22 October 2014 at 05:52

    That wasn't Sam's fault. Not even because he tried to stop it. Even if he didn't, it still wouldn't have been his fault. Lester chose to make the deal. Drunk or not, it was still his decision. It's called Free Will. Aren't there a lotta people who are on Team Free Will? Sam's intention was never to have the guy make a deal anyway, just summon the demon so he could pounce on her. Like Dean hasn't done anything where he used someone and they got killed as a result. Off the high horse, Demon!Dean.

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  59. Donna C22 October 2014 at 05:53

    Hey, if it can make Sam look like a horrible monster, people will care.

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  60. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 05:54

    I think I was okay with the SS arc ending when it did. But that's mostly because I hated half of it. I couldn't stand watching Sam acting weird without knowing why. When we learned it was because it lost his soul, it got much better, they even showed the funny side of being soulless.
    Still, I think 11 episode was enough considering this storyline had many repercussions for Sam, Dean and Castiel throughout the rest of the season, and even in season 7.
    Did they make the most of these 11 eps though ? Certainly not. It was too much about Dean's struggle to deal with that Sam IMO, more than it was about exploring what it's like to be without a soul. But it was Gamble's first year after all.

    As for Dean's arc, I think it was more about other characters than Dean himself, just like SS. Crowley was affected by his trip with Dean, Sam got to be useful again, and several big bads rose up to hunt Deanmon down, starting with Cole and probably that woman at the end.
    If they manage to throw in some actual character development for Dean, that's be great, but I ain't holding my breath.

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  61. Donna C22 October 2014 at 05:55

    I remember when they were first introduced into the show, it was stressed how RARE they were. But then they intro all of these angels, then realize they need to have a way to level the playing field against these beings, so it's ANGEL BLADES FOR EVERYONE!

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  62. Donna C22 October 2014 at 05:55

    Maybe something to do with The Mark?

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  63. Donna C22 October 2014 at 05:58

    I've been FF'ing through the Castiel scenes. Honestly, at this point, I don't care one way or the other about him ... but his plot being contained and never caring about the issues with heaven or the angels made it easy to skip his stuff. I do hope they continue building his relationship with Sam. He should've had a REAL talk with Sam instead of having Sam leave the scene YET AGAIN, while Dean had a meaningful discussion with another character.

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  64. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 05:59

    It doesn't though. Only Sam-haters would think that. Most fans will remember how cleverly he was able to get his hands on a crossroads demon.

    I think this whole thing was just a very clumsy way for Carver to hype the season without giving up too much detail.

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  65. Donna C22 October 2014 at 06:03

    I seriously read that as Rowena the Teenage Witch.

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  66. john22 October 2014 at 06:08

    This should of lasted the entire season.

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  67. AnnoDomini22 October 2014 at 06:09

    What's ironic is….the comments, you'd think the majority didn't like the episode, but the poll results says differently. It's as if the people who had a problem with the episode wanted to comment while the other side of the fence just voted and moved on to another article.

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  68. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:12

    Dean never blamed Sam for Mary's death when he was his normal self. If anything that shows it wasn't typical Dean.

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  69. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:13

    If he was trying to throw Sam under the bus he wouldn't have had Sam try to stop it.

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  70. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:15

    The soulless Sam story mostly seemed to be Gamble's excuse to have Jared do a lot of things Sam wouldn't do (treat women like trash, be a sadist, etc.) The story was a mess mostly because she had no idea what she wanted Soulless Sam to be - sometimes he was a monster, sometimes he was just a sassy kooky doll, sometimes he was a victim, sometimes he had no use for Dean, sometimes he cared about Dean.


    It also did nothing for Sam's character. It just made Sam a husk and suggested that the show had no idea what to do with him as a character (which has been the case over and over and over, sadly).

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  71. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:17

    There's no way they could have done this a whole season. Fans would have hit the roof after a month about needing to see the real Dean and needing to see brotherly bonding.

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  72. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:19

    They almost had to play it safe. When they tried to make changes in Sam in season 4 and season 6 and season 8, they always went too far, they couldn't handle it, and they destroyed the character.


    Demons often rape and murder anyone in sight. They couldn't do that with Dean. Even if it technically wasn't him.


    I do think the character was different. I think people wanted a demon Dean to go around with blood dripping from his mouth and all the rest, but the show has never had the ability to handle that type of material.


    I think Jensen managed to play the character as different, and ideally, the story will change Dean as a character and allow him to grow. I guess we'll see.

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  73. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:21

    He set his meat suit on fire. Why would we be bothered?

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  74. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:23

    There was no need to suggest Sam did monstrous things in his search for Dean, but Carver wants to make sure the track marks on Sam's back never fade.


    Kripke did the same. That's just who Sam is as a character. It's also who Dean is. That's what their father raised them to be. That's why so many fans had a problem with Sam not looking for Dean in season 8.

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  75. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:24

    It has nothing to do with a high horse. I don't understand what you mean. He was taunting Sam. Do you really think he gave a crap about the ethics of Sam's decision?

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  76. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:24

    It doesn't make Sam look like a horrible monster. Sam fans have spent more time talking about how awful it is for the character than anyone else has. I think some fans have an idealized view of him.

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  77. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:26

    They were rare because angels were barely known. It's not a shock to imagine that as angels became involved with the world again, their weapons would become prominent.

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  78. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:28

    SPN has never had a variety of cool weapons. They've had 3.

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  79. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 06:37

    One more thing I forgot to add. I'm really impressed, and slightly bewildered, with the efforts the writers are putting into Hannah as a character. If I wasn't so painfully aware of Supernatural's history with female characters I would think she's in for the long haul.

    Still, when was the last time they developed a female character like this ?

    ReplyDelete
  80. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:39

    DD never actually did anything worth noting, IMO, and certainly nothing that Dean should feel guilty about.

    We barely saw most of Dean's time as a demon. I wouldn't be surprised if he did something else. Besides, Dean always feels guilty.

    IMO, the DD arc could have been very entertaining IF the writers had been willing to take some chances w/Dean and if they were willing to let it play out. I feel like the past three episodes have been a complete waste of time. What was the point of making Dean a demon? What was that?



    Hopefully it was to make the character look at himself, which he's never really done, look at his relationship with Sam, etc. I guess we'll see. I rarely have hope with this show, I haven't since season 3 or 4, I won't start now.

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  81. lala222 October 2014 at 06:40

    Thanks! For me, DD was just an "amped up" version of Dean. I liked the SS arc so much b/c SS was vastly different from Sam. DD was not, IMO, vastly different from Dean. Of course, he did things Dean wouldn't have done like inappropriately touching women, but DD engaged in a lot of behaviors Dean does: porn, drinking, fighting, which watered down the arc in my eyes.

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  82. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:42

    The comments here are utterly meaningless, including my own. That's one of the reasons so many people drop out of talking on this site, or most sites that talk about SPN. It's the same conversation week after week, month after month, year after year. I have read the same comments here so many times in the last 3 years - mostly revolving around how Carver is terrible and Sam has been desecrated and the show is terrible and remember when the show was good (even when that material was hugely panned at the time and is now suddenly the ideal) - that I don't even know why I bother. I guess with the AV Club not doing reviews and TWOP gone, I have nowhere else to go.


    I do think the episode was a mixed bag, but had some things to enjoy. But you won't hear a thing about ANY of that here. You never, ever will.

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  83. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:44

    SS was also an "amped up" version of Dean. He was Gamble's porn fantasy of Sam. Sam was a good hunter - SS was the best hunter ever. Sam was good in bed - SS was so good, hookers paid HIM money. Rinse and repeat.

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  84. lala222 October 2014 at 06:46

    I must disagree. I found the SS arc to be very entertaining. Yeah, it didn't do much for Sam's character but it was interesting. I wanted to see the same w/DD.

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  85. lala222 October 2014 at 06:49

    I hear ya. I was fine w/where SS ended too, but I wouldn't have objected if it had gone on longer. I was just enjoying the storyline. From EOMS, I was intrigued by Sam and what his problem was so I never "hated" the story. I was interested in seeing where it was going.

    I wish they had opted to do more w/DD than what they did b/c JA would have done an excellent job w/the material. This arc was far too short IMO. It ended before I could really get into it.

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  86. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:49

    I'm wary of what they would have done in comparison. I know some fans wanted to see him get Sam hooked on demon blood again - I just don't trust the show with that type of material. I never have, because they failed so badly with it before.


    I guess if I have to choose between ugly stuff that goes nowhere, and slightly forgettable stuff that goes nowhere, I'll choose the latter. I think that story made a lot of fans hate Sam even more, because he did some really bad things that they never had to address because it wasn't actually Sam.

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  87. lala222 October 2014 at 06:51

    Well, you could always discuss the aspects of the show you did enjoy instead of complaining about what others are saying.

    Just a suggestion.

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  88. lala222 October 2014 at 06:53

    Haha! I don't have any faith in Carver or the current writers so I am not holding my breath on anything w/r/t this show.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:54

    I've tried that before and it was generally ignored or met with sarcasm. There's no real reason at this point.

    ReplyDelete
  90. lala222 October 2014 at 06:54

    As I see it, Castiel/Misha is solely on the show to give J2 a break. The same goes for Mark/Crowley as the writers clearly have no idea what to do w/either character!

    ReplyDelete
  91. Peter J422 October 2014 at 06:56

    Probably Amelia.


    I think Hannah's story is mostly to have her as a mirror to Cas, to show us what Cas used to be.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Hellboy22 October 2014 at 06:57

    Charlie? Jody Mills? Naomi?

    ReplyDelete
  93. lala222 October 2014 at 06:57

    I think Carver thinks what Sam did was monstrous. I'm not saying I agree but Carver thinks it was worse than anything DD did.

    ReplyDelete
  94. lala222 October 2014 at 06:59

    I don't recall Kripke going around talking about all the awful things Sam (or Dean) did.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Hellboy22 October 2014 at 06:59

    They were everywhere by the 5th season.

    ReplyDelete
  96. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 06:59

    I mean someone that was involved in the mythology. It's much, much easier for characters that are in standalone episodes.

    I really didn't find Naomi to be developed. She was just a psycho.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Hellboy22 October 2014 at 07:01

    It was pretty bad. He took a man at his lowest point, and talked him into summoning a demon with the promise making a wish of his come true. He didn't pull the trigger, but he put the gun in Lester's hand.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Hellboy22 October 2014 at 07:01

    But Sam did do some awful things, like drinking the nurse for demon blood.

    ReplyDelete
  99. lala222 October 2014 at 07:02

    I don't see that as an "amped up" version of Sam so we can agree to disagree. I saw SS as very cold, dispassionate, violent, ruthlesss, and deadly. Sam doesn't display those traits IMO though you may disagree.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Peter J422 October 2014 at 07:03

    I think that's mostly hyperbole. They want it to be bad but not so far that it distracts and angers fans, like what happened with the nurse.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Peter J422 October 2014 at 07:04

    The whole point of his season 4 story was that because of needing to get Dean back and prove that he was strong and capable, he started drinking demon blood. That this showed the toxicity of he and Dean and their bond.

    ReplyDelete
  102. lala222 October 2014 at 07:05

    Well, Sam haters have been hating him for a long time so I don't think anything could make them like Sam at this point.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Peter J422 October 2014 at 07:06

    I think Sam has been very cold and ruthless at times (like the way he garroted Gordon with barbed wire, like what we saw in Mystery Spot, the way he killed the crossroads demon in early season 3, etc.) I don't think this is a bad thing. I think it makes him interesting, if written correctly. It's just that I don't think the show ever knows how to write that edge.

    ReplyDelete
  104. lala222 October 2014 at 07:06

    I don't think I'm exaggerating. Carver went around saying Sam did more monstrous things than a demon to save Dean. As far as we know, this act could meet that criteria for Carver. Who knows?

    ReplyDelete
  105. lala222 October 2014 at 07:07

    It was bad. I don't disagree w/you.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Peter J422 October 2014 at 07:09

    I agree, but it's sort of lose-lose, because it wasn't even anything Sam did. It was grafted onto him and never addressed once he came back. It was just left in the air.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Peter J422 October 2014 at 07:11

    I guess it depends on whether we learn more about what he did (if he did anything else). If that's not the case then I think he was just being hyperbolic. I wasn't saying you were being hyperbolic. I meant him. That's just how producers sell things to the press or fans.

    ReplyDelete
  108. lala222 October 2014 at 07:11

    Hmmm . . . I didn't see it that way at all. I'm not sure how Sam drinking DB correlates to Sam and Dean's bond.

    I thought the point of S4 was how low Sam sunk in his depression over Dean's death and in his need for revenge. Dean was dead when Sam started drinking DB so I'm not sure how doing so would prove anything to Dean.

    And I'm not one who ascribes to the belief that the boys have a toxic relationship. I think their (fictional, tv) relationship is fine as it is.

    ReplyDelete
  109. lala222 October 2014 at 07:13

    Again, I don't disagree that Sam did awful things in S4. The show was better written then, IMO, so it didn't seem like "throwing Sam under the bus" as it has - for me - w/Carver.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Peter J422 October 2014 at 07:13

    I remember when Dean talked to Sam right before he died about Sam being his "weak spot" and how the demons had used Sam to manipulate him. I took that as being where the story was going. Sam needing Dean back, or to avenge Dean, furthered the demon blood addiction.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Peter J422 October 2014 at 07:14

    The biggest problem with that was I don't think they had any real idea or plan to address what Sam did, or how fans would react to that, or the scene where he nearly killed Dean. Kripke liked moments, but not followthrough. It's always saddened me how much he destroyed Sam, as Sam had been a terrific character up to that point.

    ReplyDelete
  112. lala222 October 2014 at 07:14

    In this situation w/Gordon, he was fighting for his life but I do agree that he was pretty cold when he killed the CRD. As you said, it really comes down to whether the writing is good or not. If the writing is bad, then the story will fail.

    ReplyDelete
  113. lala222 October 2014 at 07:16

    Yeah, I never blamed Sam for anything SS did b/c I saw the two as completely different entities. I was prepared to do the same w/DD but DD never did anything so it was a moot issue.

    ReplyDelete
  114. ivan22 October 2014 at 07:17

    jensen did a great job directing and as demon dean i mean you could tell just from his eyes that he was a demon you didn't even have to see the black eyes, i WAS wondering though if curing him would be different because he has the mark of cain but i guess not, i also liked human dean and castiel's scene at the end, and i'm liking castiel and hannah more and more

    ReplyDelete
  115. lala222 October 2014 at 07:18

    I completely agree. Kripke failed at truly reconciling the brothers in S5 after all that conflict. Fallen Idols didn't address the issues, but it was the episode where everything was "resolved."

    ReplyDelete
  116. lala222 October 2014 at 07:20

    Ahhh . . .I can agree w/that. Sam was drinking DB to kill Lilith to avenge Dean's death. I still didn't (and don't) view the brothers' relationship as toxic though. I know others do but I don't.

    ReplyDelete
  117. lala222 October 2014 at 07:22

    Okay. I misunderstood you. I definitely don't think we'll be hearing anything else about this so you are probably right about Carver over exaggerating.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Jo22 October 2014 at 07:23

    Ugh I'm kinda unhappy. I thought this Demon Dean would go at least half the season. Maybe I'm just jumping the gun and it's not over. Fingers crossed.

    ReplyDelete
  119. lala222 October 2014 at 07:24

    I'm sorry. You should definitely try again b/c I'm sure there are some
    people who have positive thoughts about the episode/show. I wish I had
    more positive thoughts but I just don't.

    I like the scene of Sam looking through the pictures. That was nice. I also liked the red lighting in the chase scene

    ReplyDelete
  120. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 07:32

    3 that were used regularly, sure.
    but there were a lot that were used only once or twice, especially in the first 3 seasons. Shotguns, flare guns, flame-trowers...
    In season 7 Crowley made bullets from an Angel blade, which was pretty cool. I wish the bros would have that.

    ReplyDelete
  121. sharonally22 October 2014 at 08:50

    Dean is the main pov character that is why being a demon was a short run thing and lets face it they did not really do anything with him anyway . You do not need Sam's pov to tell the story that is why being Soulless lasted longer .

    ReplyDelete
  122. sharonally22 October 2014 at 09:00

    And that should be a surprise considering the show's past with Sam . It was Carver that put Sam and the word 'monster' together again there was bound to be a reaction. As for idealization that can be applied to all characters.

    ReplyDelete
  123. BoxManLocke22 October 2014 at 09:19

    You do need Sam's POV sometimes unless you want to ignore a large portion of the fandom.

    ReplyDelete
  124. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 09:20

    Cole will be back in episode 7 I think

    ReplyDelete
  125. Kevin22 October 2014 at 09:33

    Episode was solid but. Continue to dislike the Castiel/Hannah storyline. I miss Castiel working closely with the Winchesters and the friendship that Castiel and Dean use to have. I'm also not at all interested in the generic Abaddon ripoff that was introduced at the end of the episode (Crowley is rumored to be getting a partner/ally this season. Likely her). No thanks! Rest of the episode was ace!

    ReplyDelete
  126. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 09:46

    so much for this season being about Sam and Dean restoring their relationship, more like a whole season of Dean (and Cas) angst and hand wringing.

    ReplyDelete
  127. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 09:52

    Carver seems ok ignoring said portion of the fandom

    ReplyDelete
  128. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 09:57

    Year of the Deanmon? More like year of the overhype
    The only entertainment value the show has anymore is in the drinking games, taking a shot every time
    -Sam gets knocked out
    -Sam has to leave the room so Dean can have a moment with another character
    -Sam is insulted/bashed by another character/the writers

    ReplyDelete
  129. Ross22 October 2014 at 10:00

    I'm pretty annoyed (very annoyed) that Dean was cured so quickly. This season was the first time in quite a while that I was excited at where the show was going. Instead we barely got any of demon Dean, just a handful of scenes which were pretty much all shown in the season 10 trailer and that's it. But on the plus side once again Ackles' direction was great, and I'm warming up to Hannah, even if I don't like Cas' B storyline.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Doug22 October 2014 at 10:37

    ugh, this show. its getting boring, which i hate saying because i love the show, but for me, this is turning into one of those "the show is going on too long" situations. definitely some good moments in this episode, i just miss seasons 1-5 i guess

    ReplyDelete
  131. James22 October 2014 at 11:34

    Like with the Leviathans a few seasons ago?

    ReplyDelete
  132. Fringenos22 October 2014 at 12:10

    Well, altogether, I'm disappointed of the maginitude Demon!Dean had. It was stated as the biggest game changer of the century but in the end, even Soulless!Sam was done better (yes, I mean it). It did have a few moments, but I don't think they lived up to the hype. Scenes like watching the photos were golden, though, and I'm hoping for some actual brotherly love this season. It's been a long time since we got that.
    Plus, I hope they don't drag the MoC out this season because that's basically what they did most of the time last season and honestly I don't think it worked that good to make it last two seasons.
    So what are they going to do? Not sure - they surely need a plot and new sub-plots, but I guess they'll introduce that in time.
    I thought the Hannah/Cass scenes this episode weren't actually bad.



    The episode itself wasn't bad, but after all the great talk, it didn't live up to expectations. I'm mixed between "Good" and "OK". but I'm gonna give it a Good because I'm hopeful for some brothers momens.

    ReplyDelete
  133. Fringenos22 October 2014 at 12:11

    I feel like it's the right time to do a reset. I mean, of course there'll be some fallout, but I hope the brothers are at that point where they finally can accept each other again. I'm longing for an intact brothers relationship. :/

    ReplyDelete
  134. hlnkid22 October 2014 at 12:34

    Great episode! Esp loved seeing Jared flexing some subtly emotional acting chops there. And Jensen's directing...awesome yet again!

    Not sad to see the Demon Dean storyline over. The longer Demon Dean survived, the less eps the boys are together, and we know how fans feel about that. Not to mention, I'm sure there will be some repercussions about all of this as the first part of the season plays out, more so than just the Mark of Cain.

    ReplyDelete
  135. Lady Sidhe22 October 2014 at 12:57

    I felt just the tiniest bit cheated with how quickly and easily Dean was cured, but the intensity of the scenes before made up for it. Crowley and Cas were perfect, as always. I'm totally looking forward to this season. It hasn't disappointed so far.

    ReplyDelete
  136. jane22 October 2014 at 13:22

    Could Abaddon be back some how? That was who I thought of when I saw her.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Mel22 October 2014 at 13:36

    I am beyond irritated. The best thing about this show in damn near two seasons was the Mark of Cain/Dean turning into a demon storyline. To have all of that wiped away within three episodes is the stupidest thing the writers could have done. This should have been played out over at least half of the season instead of being such an easy fix. Jensen rocked as Demon Dean and I am sooooo damn disappointed. I'm not saying that the episode was bad. I'm saying that they fixed what should have been a MAJOR storyarc way too easily for my liking. Also, I loathe Hannah and am tired of having to see her every week.

    ReplyDelete
  138. Theocharis Telfer22 October 2014 at 13:50

    nobody said that demon Dean will be gone for the entire season, hell i'm not even sure he's actually cured. This isn't some random demon we are talking about, Dean essentially became Cain, so who says he's not actually faking it or that he isn't using some kind of special demonic power to make Cas believe he's human

    ReplyDelete
  139. Michele Klinger22 October 2014 at 13:52

    As much as I wanted Demon Dean to last longer, i'm happy we're getting the character we know and love back. When he actually got cured, he looked kinda pissed that it took, so maybe he'll try and get his demon side back somehow? This change will definitely effect him for a while. I'm sure it'll all come back to him that he was so reckless as a demon and it'll weigh heavy on him (and make him want his carelessness back). The Sam/Dean scenes were so intense! Plus Jensen did and AMAZING job directing this!

    ReplyDelete
  140. cns3e22 October 2014 at 14:00

    Sam just can't do anything right when he is not with Dean. What an interesting twist that Sam inadvertenly lead to Dean killing Lester. I kind of feel sorry for Sam fans with this storyline. Sam came off as more evil than Demonean.

    Cas and Hannah bored me again, although Hannah grew on me during this episode. I just wanted Cas at the bunker already . And come on people, how you can not ship Cas and Dean! Dean was happy Cas was there. I think he might have even thanked him. Those two....sigh.

    JA kicked it out the park as Demon Dean and I will miss Demon Dean. I hope we get to see a bit more of him.

    Dean still has the mark of cain. I'm assuming this means he will still be affected by it. What does this mean for him as a hunter? Can he turn all Demonean again without the blade?

    What was with Cass remarks to Dean at the end of the episode? I felt like Cas was up to something, hiding something from Dean too and Dean felt that. Or do you think that Cass is just concerned for Dean due to him still having the mark of cain. Cas doesn't want to lose Dean.

    ReplyDelete
  141. OneStoryteller22 October 2014 at 14:06

    Well, I for one, loved the episode. I thought it was intense and extremely well acted--both on Jensen's part and Jared's. It had a nice tension to it as well as some touching moments. I loved Demon Dean's growl. And Jensen can just get this fathomless, dark look in his eyes that is just incredible...and chilling.



    I may be in the minority but I'm not sorry that the demon Dean storyline is somewhat done. I hated that they made him a demon in the first place and, while I've enjoyed demon Dean and Jensen's amazing portrayal over the first 3 episodes, I'm happy to have human Dean back. Was the cure too quick? Eh, maybe? But I found those scenes so intense that that doesn't bother me.



    As far as what Sam did being monstrous? Well, not so much. I think Carver was trying to be a bit over titillating in that regard. Yes, it was in the sense that he manipulated Lester, but Lester was awfully quick to jump at that deal. So much so that Sam couldn't stop him as he intended. I LOVED the symmetry of demon Dean killing Lester last week and then finding out Sam had a part in Lester making that deal to begin with.


    I think there's lots of story yet to tell and I'm looking forward to it. I will admit though that I find the Cas/Hannah/angels story line boring.

    ReplyDelete
  142. sdwhiskey22 October 2014 at 14:11

    IA. There are certain people who post multiple times about the same thing (Carver sucks, Dean sucks, Cas sucks, where is Sam's POV?, blah, blah, blah) and drag down the discussion IMO. It's a broken record in here. I really wish those commenters would just take it easy with all the negativity but they seem to want to take over the discussion no matter what.

    ReplyDelete
  143. chris68422 October 2014 at 14:11

    Could be still. The more I think about this, the more I think the mark is pulling Dean in that direction, and that was the consequence Crowley hinted at when he said the mark needed to be sated. It will probably a healing if the relationship that stops it.

    ReplyDelete
  144. sdwhiskey22 October 2014 at 14:25

    Even though Jensen did a great job as DD, I will be glad to get our Dean back again. And don't forget that he's still got the Mark of Cain to deal with. I think the show couldn't go on much longer without the real Dean, especially if they do any kind of MOTW episodes. This is a show about 2 brothers hunting down evil and I think it's best they get back to the core of what makes the show so great. And IMO (yes, in MY opinion), Dean is the heart of the show. He carries the emotional weight and POV (for the most part), and I think that's what make the show successful. Sam is equally important too, but in a different way. So again, even though DD was loads of fun, I do think we need to get back to the Sam'n'Dean dynamic. Again, JMO.


    I agree with others that the cure was rather anti-climatic. But again, I hope that Dean is still going to be struggling with the MoC and that will continue to be an important aspect to his storyline as we forge ahead. I'm glad Crowley offed the angel and Cas got some angel mojo back because that storyline was just dragging the show down IMO. I was glad to see Cas at the bunker and help Sam cure Dean. They had a nice moment there at the end. I'm sure we'll have more nice moments with Sam and Dean in the next episode as well.


    For a minute there at the end I was so hopeful that Alaina was back! But nope. Oh well. Jensen did a great job directing, especially with the cat and mouse chase scene between Sam and Dean in the bunker. Very well done.

    ReplyDelete
  145. chris68422 October 2014 at 14:34

    My issue with what Carver was saying is that he sounded like he was once again making him a case study, rather than thinking of him as a fleshed out character/person. This was the case in the SS arc (Sam was written more of a case study as to what it means to be soulless rather than the emphasis on what the experience had done to Sam). It was the case in the Sam didn't look for Dean storyline. Carver was curious how things would play out if Sam didn't look for Sam rather than thinking about whether it was likely that Sam wouldn't look for Dean. Now, Carver (or I should say the writers as a whole) seem to be curious about the question what makes a monster, and whether a human doing bad things is worse than an actual monster. I don't think Carver has bad intent. I think he's just indifferent to the damage caused to Sam's character.

    ReplyDelete
  146. chris68422 October 2014 at 14:44

    Drinking the nurse was repulsive because it was vampiric, but we've since had vampires who are seen as good (i.e. Benny). Killing the nurse was wrong but at the same time she was possessed by a demon, and how many demons have Sam, Dean and Cas since killed without trying to see if they can save the hosts first? Dean just did the same thing in this episode by killing multiple demons to sate his mark. And finally, in Sam's mind, there was a greater good argument. He believed that through his demon blood curse he had the only weapon strong enough to kill Lilith and stop the apocalypse. He didn't believe the angels when they said Dean was meant to stop it. Again, the brothers, and Cas especially in season 6, have made multiple choices to pick the greater good over the individual.


    The problem I have, and that I think other Sam fans have, is that Sam's past actions seem to never be looked at anymore with some kind of perspective. He's the boy who started the apocalypse and who chose a demon over his brother even though he didn't intend to start the apocalypse and Dean and Cas played just as big of a role in it, and he also never chose Ruby over Dean. He chose trying out his powers over following Dean's wishes to trust in the angels.

    ReplyDelete
  147. chris68422 October 2014 at 14:46

    But why? He seemed to be trying to make a suicide protest, but demons are just souls (black smoke). They're not their meat suits.

    ReplyDelete
  148. chris68422 October 2014 at 14:51

    While I think the Mark is definitely having an impact, Dean carries a lot of of pent up resentments that have come out as passive aggressive attacks throughout the series. We don't really know what Dean is carrying around deep down.

    ReplyDelete
  149. ScottA22 October 2014 at 15:02

    Carver microwaving a good idea. I would have liked to have seen Sam hunt Dean for a few episodes at least. Get the grace from Metatron and Deanmon could have avenged his own death by whacking Metatron and that disaster would have been dealt with.

    ReplyDelete
  150. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 15:03

    The MOC stoyline/build up was the main storyline last season and will be for the remainder of this season, I hardly think thats cause for complaints. Dean has that, the Cole storyline and his connections with Crowley, Charlie, Cas. Most likely the whole Rowena thing too will be mainly about MOC/Crowley/Dean. Not too mantion Dean is the main POV of the show.
    Its way better than being used as plot device, getting knocked out every episode of being sent of screen because the writers cant be bothered to give you any connections to other characters or anything to do.

    ReplyDelete
  151. ScottA22 October 2014 at 15:07

    Maybe during the "showdown" the MoC gets transferred to Cole. Maybe he is one who is "worthy".

    ReplyDelete
  152. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 15:09

    theres only so much screen time they are willing to give Jared/storyline they are willing to give Sam. How many times can we see Sam knocked out and/or tied up/leaving the room because they cant be bothered to write for him. At least now we can watch him make faces when Dean is doing/saying or something, and researching for hunts as well as being knocked out/tied up/leaving the room while Dean interacts with other characters. Thats something to look forward to.

    ReplyDelete
  153. chris68422 October 2014 at 15:23

    There were mostly positive comments on the "what did you think" post from last week's episode. I would have posted positive comments myself had I not gotten to watching the episode really late because I was travelling. This episode is more divisive.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Mel22 October 2014 at 15:26

    It's called an opinion and that was mine. You obviously disagree and that's fine. After all, opinions are like assholes; everybody has one. No need to ridicule my comment because you don't agree with it or to tell me I have no reason to complain about something I felt passionate about. I felt the issue was rushed and was a very easy fix. Again, that is MY opinion. There is nothing you will say (positive, neutral, or negative) that will change MY opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  155. chris68422 October 2014 at 16:03

    I thought SS was supposed to be the anti-Sam. Real Sam never felt comfortable with hunting or killing, but SS Sam embraced it. Real Sam didn't enter into casual relationships, but that's all SS did. Empathy was probably real Sam's most defining characteristic during the Gamble years, but SS had none. The storyline was a lesson on how the soul defines who you are, and how Sam wasn't Sam without it.


    I saw much more of real Dean in demonic Dean - his attachment to Mary-looking women, his mixed feelings about Sam, his desire to bury and forget his pain by handing out in dive bars.

    ReplyDelete
  156. Mar Tim22 October 2014 at 16:15

    All 4 are awesome, Dean**, Sam, Cas and Crowley

    ReplyDelete
  157. rehabber22 October 2014 at 16:52

    I have liked all of Jensen's directed eps, but dang this one was the best. Very tight and well done. For me this was the best ep of the season, still don't like Hannah. Can't figure out just what she is good for.
    Loved Crowley telling the Angel he was killing, why don't you just sit on your cloud and play the harp like you are supposed to. Good line.

    ReplyDelete
  158. rehabber22 October 2014 at 16:53

    I felt that way about Purgatory in season 8. Feral Dean was awesome and I loved Benny.

    ReplyDelete
  159. Ann6522 October 2014 at 17:04

    Absolutely agree. They could've made the final scenes more riveting but the end was a big let down.

    ReplyDelete
  160. meme5122 October 2014 at 17:11

    Please get rid of the angels, they are so boring. The main part of the fandom that likes them don't even care about a story anyway, just a stupid imaginary relationship between Dean and cas. That's why the female had to stay in the car. No matter that 2 angels may have been of more use. How long was the poor thing sat out in the car anyway? It's a joke at the expense of good writing! They had a interesting twist on a demon story, with mock playing a role too and they threw it away. Both Dean and Sam are getting shafted because the writers daren't man up and put an end to the whole Angel and demon thing once and for all. There is a lot of untapped supernatural mythology out there but sadly it looks like we are condemned to more of the same.

    ReplyDelete
  161. Paula R. Stiles22 October 2014 at 17:26

    Ha! Bunny slope? That describes the Nepotism Duo's scripts to a T!

    ReplyDelete
  162. Paula R. Stiles22 October 2014 at 17:30

    The SS arc blew chunks. He was completely inconsistent from one episode to the next and annoying to watch the whole time.

    DD was much more entertaining and frankly, it was nice to see Dean get some payback after all these years of being everybody else's doormat. Too bad the way the show chose to write that storyline out was rushed and underwhelming. I mean, you have a version of Dean who could easily take over the throne of Hell from Crowley without even blinking and he's defeated by the Power of...Hugs?! Just awful.

    ReplyDelete
  163. Paula R. Stiles22 October 2014 at 17:31

    That's the thing. Sam wasn't even around for half a season--and not even his fans noticed. That's a problem the writers never bothered to address.

    ReplyDelete
  164. chris68422 October 2014 at 17:34

    He handed the gun to Lester. Lester picked it up and chose to fire because that was something Lester wanted, even when Sam was waving him off.

    ReplyDelete
  165. elpida tz22 October 2014 at 17:41

    please no more boring Castiel and Hanna

    ReplyDelete
  166. chris68422 October 2014 at 17:54

    I'm thinking the mark needs to go to someone with brother issues, but that's just speculation on my part.

    ReplyDelete
  167. chris68422 October 2014 at 17:55

    His fans noticed. You obviously weren't on this website at the time.

    ReplyDelete
  168. chris68422 October 2014 at 18:11

    Sorry, this last one was me. i tried to delete it because I realized we were talking about something different. Ignore it. I was talking about SS.

    ReplyDelete
  169. Peter J422 October 2014 at 18:24

    I didn't mind the "hug" scene, as he was being restrained by Cas and it was the blood injections that were changing him, but they shouldn't have resolved it in the very next scene.


    A part of me did want to see Dean take over Hell (as Crowley bores me in that role and always has), but then I knew they'd never take Dean that far.

    I just hope we aren't back to Dean being miserable and guilt-ridden. Let's use this to actually make changes.

    ReplyDelete
  170. Kirin17122 October 2014 at 18:24

    I just hope they keep her and don't kill like every other kickass woman in this show. She is a precious.

    ReplyDelete
  171. Peter J422 October 2014 at 18:24

    I agree. I was just saying I don't think Dean would ever actually say that about Mary.

    ReplyDelete
  172. Peter J422 October 2014 at 18:27

    I see your point. I was confused wrt his characterization because by that point they'd sort of already written Sam as accepting hunting and being great at it.

    ReplyDelete
  173. Peter J422 October 2014 at 18:28

    I don't know if SPN has ever had a peak in any season. There tend to be good episodes and terrible episodes intertwined, with no real momentum. It just depends on who wrote the episode and who directed it.

    ReplyDelete
  174. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 18:35

    While I agree with that, I just dont think the writers have enough material to fill episode after episode without the likes of Cas and his side story and Crowley and his side story and random friends of Dean and their side stories. They cut out the angel stuff from the first couple of episodes and the writers may have had to not knock Sam unconscious or have him ties to a chair or something equally as important.

    ReplyDelete
  175. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 18:37

    I think Carver wanted to assure fans that Sam had a storyline but really he doesnt not anymore any way.

    ReplyDelete
  176. Peter J422 October 2014 at 18:37

    What I'm talking about with idealization is that people think this was all done to make fans hate Sam and see him as a terrible person. Sam has done this type of thing before. He's done far worse. Kripke was the one who initially had the arc of Sam seeing himself as a monster and ultimately becoming his worst fear. It's not something I really wanted to see again, but so far I don't think this season has written Sam as someone we should hate. I think they've done OK so far, especially compared to the last few seasons, where Sam was either way OOC (early 8) or not even there (early 9).

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  177. Peter J422 October 2014 at 18:39

    I see what you mean. They still have different weapons at times (like machetes). I do think they overuse the angel blades but from a storytelling POV I can see why they do.

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  178. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 18:45

    I'd rather an all out brother V brother season. Dean as a demon or whatever and Sam working with Cole as hunters and working on stopping , the big bad? Rowena, Crowley/Dean and helping Cas re-open the gate to heaven. This kinda feels like we're headed back to square one. There'll be a sappy line from Dean in an episode or two and all will be forgotten without having actually fixed the actual issues they so clearly have with each other.

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  179. Peter J422 October 2014 at 18:46

    You should say what you feel. If you didn't care for it, I respect that. You aren't a snide person so I can enjoy talking with you even if we disagree. I stopped reading the gripe reviews because that's the type of clickbait negativity that tends to rankle me and I would just post long disagreements that took up 10 paragraphs.

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  180. Peter J422 October 2014 at 18:47

    That's good to hear. I mostly saw the comments in Lisa's review, and they were generally mixed/negative.

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  181. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 18:49

    That guy was a dick, Demon Dean killed someone last week and no one cared because that guy was a dick and deserved it. And no being a demon isnt a valid excuse as Carver has already said that demon Dean is still Dean.

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  182. Peter J422 October 2014 at 18:49

    I can't compare this to Soulless Sam until we see how the rest of the story plays out. There was absolutely zero fallout for anything SS did - even killing a woman in cold blood was greeted with a shrug. If the point was to get us hot and bothered over how kick-ass SS was, I guess it may have worked for some fans. I just didn't really want that for Demon Dean. But I don't want him to go back to misery and guilt either. And I know that likely will happen.

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  183. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 18:53

    it want good but then neither was Sam/Dean/Cas/Bobby bleeding a load of people dry in the season 5 finale so Sam could drink the blood to take on Lucifer. Those were still people in their too after all. Not to mention every time Dean has tortured a demon ignoring that those are actual people (Sam can be added to that too since now he's jumped on the demon torture band wagon).

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  184. Peter J422 October 2014 at 18:53

    We're about to get 3 straight episodes without any Cas or, presumably, angels. It doesn't take up that much airtime.

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  185. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 18:55

    He still is even with Carver trying to make it the Saint Dean and all his friends show, Sam stiull holds his own despite what the Dean fandom say.

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  186. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 18:57

    good point, unless they're like DemonDean where they arent possessed but actually a corrupted soul in their original body?

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  187. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 18:59

    I guess the difference is that SS didnt have what made Sam Sam which is his soul where as Demon Dean was still Dean because he still had what made Dean Dean which is his soul?

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  188. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 19:02

    I personally think he has a lot to feel guilty over

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  189. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 19:05

    shouldnt Cas be trying to re-open the gate to heaven?

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  190. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 19:06

    because what would be the point?

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  191. lala222 October 2014 at 19:12

    I understand, and I'm glad you like discussing the show w/me. I enjoy discussing it w/you as well :-)

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  192. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 19:15

    I think it was to point out how Sam without his soul wasnt really Sam at all which is why everything SS did was pretty much shrugged off, though Dean actually did blame Sam for the things SS did while Sam's soul was in the cage in the end anyway. The storyline actually had relevance as they were exploring what it meant to have a soul or not. Nit very well mind you but still.


    Demon Dean seems more like a Carver's attempt at appeasing Dean/Jensen fans, he gets a myth arc, gets to be the baddest most badass demon ever (who never actually doe anything to live up to the title of demon). At the moment it looks like it doesnt actually have a point as there will be no consequences for Dean as he didnt actually do anything though I'm sure he'll still angst/self pity his way through countless episodes. Seemed more like fan pandering than SS ever was.

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  193. ParadiseHeat22 October 2014 at 19:16

    I take it those are MOTW episodes heavy on the guest stars, Dean MOC, Crowley stuff?

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  194. Fringenos22 October 2014 at 19:26

    I have to admit you've got a point there. There is a chance they're handling the fallout properly with Demon!Dean, so I shouldn't come to a conclusion that early

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  195. elle j.22 October 2014 at 19:32

    I'm also glad Demon Dean is gone. After thinking about it, all the fans have something to look forward to. Those who liked Deanmon will still see the effects of that story play out because Dean is still on the edge of the cliff with the MOC. Plus Cole is still out there waiting for his chance to kill Dean. Only this time, Cole is more dangerous than ever because he now has knowledge of the supernatural world and will be ready when his and Dean's paths cross next time. Those who are glad Dean is human again will see him try to come to terms with his rash actions of agreeing to take the MOC in the first place. That includes Dean trying to find redemption for the time he was a demon and reconciliation with Sam for the damage that was done to the brother's relationship. The big question remains of how will Dean be rid of the MOC and who will be the next to be cursed with it.

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  196. Indy22 October 2014 at 19:40

    Great episode! Now I can forget about the disaster that was 10x01. I'm not even mad that they cured Dean so quickly, even though I was hoping for at least half a season of Demon Dean. I loved everything about this episode.

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  197. chris68422 October 2014 at 20:30

    The most effective way I've found to change the tone of the conversations is - instead of responding to comments you dislike or disagree with - to respond to the comments you like and start a conversation going. It's human nature to conform to the group, and when the positive conversations start outnumbering the negative ones, the tone of everyone will usually shift.

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  198. Theocharis Telfer22 October 2014 at 20:38

    to trick everyone into thinking he's cured when in fact he's secretly killing off demons that would be a threat because he wants to take over hell?

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  199. Misty Pebworth22 October 2014 at 22:07

    Uh if he were at all interested in taking over hell, chances are he'd have worked with Crowley a lot more, then snatched it from him. Or made a bid to get tge demons on his team. He showed absolutely zero interest in hell.

    And you're giving the writers too much credit and honestly tge idea alone stretches plausibility to tge extreme.

    Deanmon is likely completely gone, way to soon. They might do something more with the mark, but honestly? We've seen all the mark did last season. It turned dean bloodthirsty. Already been there, done that. What's the point in doing it all over again?

    And this witch stuff that's supposedly the big bad for the season is /lame/. Especially considering how awesome an evil dean as tge main bad guy could have been. I feel like they were just starting to spice him up, flesh him out, and then took a magic eraser and completely wiped it out. Demon Dean could have been /really/ good, could have revitalized interest in the show, if only they'd spend the money and time on it.

    Now, even if he starts to go dark side again, no one's going to care, because we've already been there, done that, and found a simple thirty minute cure to this shows biggest bad.

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  200. Hellboy22 October 2014 at 22:17

    I really don't get where the thought that Demon Dean was going to last half the season comes from, if I recall right, everyone was pretty upfront in saying that Demon Dean would around 3 to 4 episodes.

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