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Arrow - Episode 3.03 - Corto Maltese - Promo

16 Oct 2014

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57 comments:

  1. Bertha Strongham16 October 2014 at 02:18

    Finally Thea is doing something, rather then being the clueless girl. I am hopefully optimistic on this turn of events. I also hope that they redeem her father.

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  2. mac16 October 2014 at 02:24

    Can't wait for the next episode, this is what I've been waiting for!

    A hero is worthless without his enemy. Merlyn is that guy

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  3. mac16 October 2014 at 02:25

    I really don't want them to redeem Merlyn, a opportunistic neutral force you can team up or battle to death? Maybe but not as a full blown good guy

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  4. SHIELDNCISArrowfan16 October 2014 at 02:28

    well since Ral al ghul is Merlyn enemy and likely be Oliver........the saying is the enemy of my enemy is my friend......they will have to work together at some point

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  5. Bruce_F16 October 2014 at 02:38

    At least it appears that Thea hasn't drank Merlyn's Kool-Aid. That's a positive sign. I can handle disillusioned Thea. Weak-minded and brainwashed not so much. Thankfully, it doesn't look like it's heading that way.

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  6. MckG16 October 2014 at 02:41

    You do realize she called him "Dad" at the end of ep 2, right?

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  7. mac16 October 2014 at 02:43

    doesen't mean much if she doesen't mean it.
    She could just be saying that to appease him

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  8. Bruce_F16 October 2014 at 02:44

    And that proves what exactly? Last time I checked he was her biological father.

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  9. Justin Valdes16 October 2014 at 02:44

    I have high hope for Thea's storyline this season! It's going to be awesome and I can't wait to see her/Malcolm next week.

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  10. MckG16 October 2014 at 02:44

    I thought about that too, but it didn't exactly seem like it. And I'm pretty sure the real torturous stuff is things that have happend already in those five months.

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  11. MckG16 October 2014 at 02:49

    Who killed the man that actually raised her like his own daughter? Is greatly responsible for her half-brothers death, and the deaths of a LOT of innocent people in Starling City? I don't think she'd get over that so easily and start calling him that.

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  12. Bertha Strongham16 October 2014 at 02:50

    I didn't want to spoil, but you are right!
    Merlyn will always be working for Merlyn, however when working with Olly, he will be bearable as a character and perhaps a bit redeemed.

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  13. Bertha Strongham16 October 2014 at 02:51

    I am with you, I think they will go this path.

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  14. Bertha Strongham16 October 2014 at 02:52

    Thea has proven how witless she is. That is all I'm gonna say. Totally witless not to mention clueless.

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  15. Bertha Strongham16 October 2014 at 02:53

    She is not the greatest in terms of deduction and common sense.

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  16. Bruce_F16 October 2014 at 02:54

    Thea had no love for her deceased father before she ran into Merlyn last season and she doesn't seem to care much about anything or anyone at the moment so you're probably assigning meaning to a word where there is none.

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  17. MckG16 October 2014 at 02:55

    Which basically comes down to her falling for his "brainwashing" because as much as I hear and read about it, there is no way Malcolm actually really cares about her, I'm pretty sure he's incapable of that at this point.

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  18. MckG16 October 2014 at 02:58

    Something that is still totally unreasonable, because Robert never did anything to her. He only kept from her the fact that he wasn't her real father, which is something that is anything but easy. She only involved him in her irrational "hate" because Oliver thought she might understand that it means something.


    Besides that, it does not cast away any of the horrible things he has done, and just forgiving that.

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  19. Bruce_F16 October 2014 at 03:00

    When has Thea ever been known to be a rational, level-headed character? If anything, the character is simply being consistent.

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  20. MckG16 October 2014 at 03:03

    The thing is, she was being quite reasonable, rational and responsible until she found out about Malcolm. They just completely fflipped that around again, which just kinda sucks.

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  21. Bruce_F16 October 2014 at 03:07

    No she wasn't. She was a hot-headed, school-skipping, drug-taking mess who lashed out at Oliver then did the same to her mother then back to Oliver again. She leveled out for six or seven episodes at the beginning of S2 then when her life got hard she reverted back to her old self again.

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  22. gabby16 October 2014 at 03:18

    I agree

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  23. gabby16 October 2014 at 03:19

    THEA ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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  24. gabby16 October 2014 at 03:20

    THEA ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!! LUV HER

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  25. RLRaGE16 October 2014 at 03:21

    Its the Devil you know.

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  26. Shannon16 October 2014 at 03:26

    Whoaaaaaaaaa This is gonna be soooooo gooooooddddd!!!!!

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  27. lsbloom16 October 2014 at 03:35

    I'm thinking disillusionment leaves her vulnerable to brainwashing. Villains often have the enviable position of owning their faults. I think there are lots of stories where characters sick of lies and betrayals find that forthrightness appealing. She did leave with Macolm and the trials by pain and exhaustion have a certain "training" element to them, which would be enough to sway anyone. I think she's at least temporarily (because she's an awfully flip-floppy character) on Macolm's side. But I don't see it as permanent. I liked the spine she showed for a brief bit in S2 where she decided her mother was a mass murdering witch and she got her life together running the club. I think there is potential for her to be a rational, solid, character. I want to call her "pure" like grounded, unaligned, outside the drama of vigilante justice and murder, and family loyalty pushing you outside your moral code. They showed shades of it last season and I think it is a good fit for her--even if I can't find the right word. :-)

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  28. lsbloom16 October 2014 at 03:39

    I dunno he killed a lot of people, including Tommy, and not for any good, logical reason. Wanting to possess a daughter he's happily ignored for 18 years (after not being a good father to the child he didn't ignore) doesn't seem like a good enough reason to want him to make amends. And really, with all the dead how can he? I think he can be an ally against the league of assassins, but in the end he's failed the city.

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  29. Bertha Strongham16 October 2014 at 03:47

    I think he will be redeemed for a bit, but he is like a wild animal - one can never take their eyes off of.

    BTW - he had no idea (in the shows universe) that Thea existed. So can't say he ignored her. In fact, as soon as he found out about her, he has been about her. Also, it is always a good idea for folks to make amends. Moira did it.... after being apart of the killing spree.

    My view point, is that he will, as you say, ally himself with the Arrow until this is no longer feasible for him.

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  30. Bertha Strongham16 October 2014 at 03:52

    I just don't know if one necessitates the other in this scenario....as you have posed it in this comment.

    I will agree that it is expedient for Malcolm to be in Thea's universe at this time. Let's face it, it drives plot and motivation for the Arrow. However, I am not soo sure that one can say that he does not care about Thea. He may have a different way of doing so...then a normal parent....but I am not convinced that he does not care about her or for that matter is incapable of doing so, as you say. It will just be different then what normal parents do. IMO.

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  31. Bruce_F16 October 2014 at 03:53

    I don't see anything permanent coming from her time with Merlyn except for her increasing skill set. I do see where you're coming from regarding her vulnerability and if it weren't for her interaction with Oliver in the promo I'd probably agree with you. I just didn't get that impression from her. Admittedly, a few seconds in the promo isn't much to go on but I still wasn't getting that acolyte drone vibe from her.


    Like you, I can see Thea becoming a more grounded character in the future but I believe she'll need to learn to control her emotions instead of being ruled by them which seems to be the norm with her. I can't see her being unaligned though. No one seems to stay unaligned on shows like these.

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  32. lsbloom16 October 2014 at 05:14

    I agree, they probably won't go acolyte/drone, but I think she's gonna choose Malcolm's "way" over Oliver's for a while. Eventually, Malcolm will do something blatantly evil (again) and she'll change sides. But I'm prepared for a lot of "at least he hasn't lied to me" logic and "he's teaching me to be strong, you and Mom held me back" accusations before she remembers that she was a drugy party girl with no desire or coping mechanisms for engaging the dark side of life.


    Maybe "moral" is a better word, not the moral center of the show, but maybe true to herself and not reacting purely to other peoples' mistakes.

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  33. Ore16 October 2014 at 05:22

    I find the dad line ridiculous as well. Robert raised her, spoiled her, made her live a good life and Merlyn was responsible for his death. I am looking forward to her story-line, I just hope she doesn't become a huge hypocrite.

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  34. Bruce_F16 October 2014 at 05:23

    "But I'm prepared for a lot of "at least he hasn't lied to me" logic and
    "he's teaching me to be strong, you and Mom held me back" accusations
    before she remembers that she was a drugy party girl with no desire or
    coping mechanisms for engaging the dark side of life.    "

    Yeah, besides the drone/acolyte thing, this is my runner-up for worst case scenario. I've been bracing myself for that eventuality as well. I will hope there's going to be something smarter written for this plot but I'm not expecting it.

    "Maybe "moral" is a better word, not the moral center of the show, but
    maybe true to herself and not reacting purely to other peoples'
    mistakes.    "
    I will dub her "no-bullsh*t, tell it like it is Thea" and cross my fingers that it happens. :)

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  35. Graydon16 October 2014 at 05:29

    It'd be extremely redeem him. Not that the writers are even going to.

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  36. O D A16 October 2014 at 06:50

    THEA!!!! I am so excited for this episode. She is awesome. Is Malcolm pouring boiled water or wax on to her hand. He is so mad and creepy in a wonderful way lol.


    She seems way stronger this episode. Very much in control. It doesn't look like she is completely under Malcolm's clutches. Oliver wants to tell the truth to Thea??? Did I hear that right? Are pigs flying outside? I can't wait for that conversation.

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  37. O D A16 October 2014 at 06:52

    Working together is fine but not redeeming. Work together say good bye then try killing each other until the next time you have to work together.

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  38. Pearcecymru16 October 2014 at 09:49

    Can't wait for this ep:)

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  39. MckG16 October 2014 at 14:49

    I'm still saying that if that did actually happen, that's going to become old REALLY fast... They really shouldn't push it more than at most working with him twice, no more than that or it's just going to get really boring and fake... I mean, the show really seems to want to force people to forget all the shit Malcolm's done, but Oliver probably won't... But then I guess the only reason for them to work together, would be through Thea, which prov3es that she's definitely going to choose his side, lie to Oliver about it and in worst case, that's still going to take the entire season with all the eps Malcolm's in.


    I still think the shows love for John Barrowman is going to bite them in the ass if they really push it too long and far, but that's just my opinion.

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  40. MckG16 October 2014 at 14:54

    Since the death of his wife, Malcolm has proven time and time again that all he cares about, is himself and his so called "revenge" or justice or whatever... Proven by he fact that he knocked out his own son when he was trying to get through to him? Leading to Tommy doing what he thought was right, and getting killed in hwt Malcolm caused.


    No, I don't believe for a second he actually cares about her. What he might care about though, is finally having someone to kiss his ass again and fall for his lies and manipulative brainwashing...


    Let's not forget that if Malcolm really did keep an eye on Thea from the moment he found out, he could have actually done a little more to help her, by you know... Preventing Slade from killing Moira, or at least trying to keep her from having to watch it? But no, he didn't, you know why? Absolutely not because he was b usy, but because he just saw it as a great way of getting rid of her and having all the room to manipulate Thea, even if it is a little more "emotional" or whatever than with Tommy, but it's still complete selfishness from his end.

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  41. MckG16 October 2014 at 14:58

    I just think it's really, REALLY cold from this show and the writers in general, to first show last season that Robert knew all along, but still lvoed her with all his heart, just so they could just act like that's not a big deal in the least bit, but Malcolm suddenly deserves to be called "Dad" and have her smile at him so... Brainwashed, I mean, I can't come up with a better word than that, 'cause it really looked like it, specially if I'm right about how this is going to continue, with her lying to Oliver, and thus, actually becoming that hypocrite... Not to mention that I'm just still really worried about how much they're going to push all this, and continue completely ruining her character... She might always have been unreasonable, but hse has NEVER displayed anything that would suggets she is anything like Malcolm, well... Until now that is, since the show creators REALLY want to do anything with her, except making her become Speedy.

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  42. Bertha Strongham16 October 2014 at 15:06

    I just don't think the show has depicted this as of yet. I am sure that they will in the upcoming epi's. So it remains to be seen.

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  43. MckG16 October 2014 at 15:07

    That would actually just put her in some useless neutral position by the sound of it, instead of hopefully eventually just seeing the light about the bastard Malcolm, and actually become the nickname she's been getting from the start, something I wish they hadn't done, 'cause then they would have to do every single unreasonable thing in their power, to make sure it goes in against that expectation. I still juts hope they don't try to do something stupid, 'cause even a simple neutral Thea would be a complete waste, and probably even annoying... An evil Thea would be completely annoying, and probably make me stop watching...


    I just really hope this crap doesn't go on too long, her calling him "Dad" is brainwashy enough. The longer they try to prolong this, the more of a hypocrite and crap character their gonna make her... >.<

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  44. lsbloom16 October 2014 at 15:12

    She forgave her mom for killing all those people....

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  45. MckG16 October 2014 at 15:13

    I'm just mostly awaiting annoyance... Watching Oliver fight for her, while she just let's Malcolm do exactly with her what he wnats...


    I'm just saying, having her too much on Malcolm's side and too brainwashed too... I just hope they realize in the coming eps than that they can actually completely ruin a character, which they're still already doing a good job at. I'm definitely having to hand it to them, they definitely made sure that people wouldn't even want her to become Speedy eventually anymore.

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  46. Bertha Strongham16 October 2014 at 15:30

    I hear what you are saying, but I don't think this will be the case. Again it all remains to be seen. Thea's character creates tension in the storyarch, as she is the only family that Olly has left, so he will fight to maintain this connection. The fight will fuel him to do bigger and better.

    Can't wait for Speedy!

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  47. MckG16 October 2014 at 15:34

    Okay, are we seriously going to compare the two to each other?


    Seriously, you can under NO circumstances compare Moira, her mother that raised her for years, that was trying to protect them, even when she knew her husband, and at that time her son, were killed in cold blood by Malcolm himself.
    While Malcolm was doing all that intentional, killed hundreds of people directly, intentionally, wanted it so bad he put in two earthquake machines, knocked out his son who was just trying to get through to his once, but not anymore, existing caring side, and then got killed 'cause SOMEONE in that family had to do the right thing.


    So yeah, if you really think those two are on even grounds... I don't even know what to say to that, that comparison just shouldn't be made, ever.


    I just don't get why there are so many people defending Malcolm...

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  48. MckG16 October 2014 at 15:43

    Which is also part of my point, since I'm just getting really worried about the show in general, and their plan of being more "grounded" this season, I mean, that's all nice and fun, but if that means they're just gonna milk out as much of the drama of his one last remaining family member, until their bond can never be the same, that's just gonna be crap then...


    Me neither!
    But it's driving me crazy that they apparently want to do more to go in against that expectation, than to actually finally do something with it... I mean, if it's only half of this season, okay, then we've had like 2 and a half season of family drama constantly, and almost an entire family having been wpied out... I'd personally say that's way enough for a while.
    I hope they know that too already, around that point, 'cause there's still a part of me that's just worried they want to go in against that expectation SO much, they'll just actually NOT do it at all or something.


    Oliver just needs his little sister, on his side, not against him on the side of his biggest, psychotic enemy.

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  49. Ore16 October 2014 at 15:59

    haha true. I guess Roy has kinda taken the role of Speedy so they want to do something else to her. I just hope they change her character so much that she irredeemable.

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  50. MckG16 October 2014 at 16:12

    Oh no, definitely not. I will never count Roy as Speedy, which is why it annoys me that they called him that then and how some news messages still call him that too. Roy is just Arsenal, plain and simple. Thea is Speedy, and for me she's going to stay Speedy.



    I'm certina that it would only do this show good, once they get over themselves and actually make her Speedy, if she's part of Team Arrow. I know I would absolutely LOVE THAT!


    No, it's all nice and fun that they want to play in against that expectation, that's somethign I just have to live with, but I won't just accept if they completely change that and don't make her Speedy.


    But you're right too, she should stay redeemable either way, not become like Malcolm too much, and specially not kill anyone, no matter how they make it look, she's way too good for that. "of all of them, she has the purest heart.' and I still think that Oliver having said that to her, should be of importance to her too, that she kept to that promise anyway, and that it helps with her choosing Oliver and Team Arrow's side. As annoying as Thea could be, the bond between her and Ollie is just amazing, and I want that back. Either way, I think that Thea could be way more of a sidekick to Oliver, than Roy ever really will be.

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  51. CNH17 October 2014 at 08:17

    According to Willa there is something that Malcom hasn't told her, and that is that Oliver is the Arrow. So the argument of Malcom always being truthful to her goes out the window. And the question becomes why didn't he? If he really wants to control her why not tell her Oliver's biggest secret? That right there gives Olivier a chance to win Thea back.
    I also think that Thea is using Malcom to become stronger not so much to exact revenge on Oliver but to maybe become a sidekick to the Arrow, like Roy. Of course it well see what happenes after she finds out that the Arrow and Oliver are one and the same.
    I also don't think she'll forgive Malcom for the death of over 500 people in the Glades. She didn't forgive her mom for the longest time so there's no way she'll forgive him. Hell she maybe using him so she can take him down later, now that would be great.

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  52. lsbloom17 October 2014 at 09:44

    I'm not defending Malcolm. I'm saying Thea has poor judgement. I will say that despite how her trial came out and the silly mayor plot, Moira deserved the death penalty. She was an awful person. She supported Malcolm, she betrayed the nice guy she teamed up with to try to kill Malcolm. She lied, betrayed, and threatened. None of that says, I'm too weak and stupid to stop my partner. All of it says I am a selfish woman who only thinks about maintaining the status quo of my life regardless of who else it might hurt. She thought Oliver was dead for those five years and all Thea needed to be safe was telling Malcolm she was his, so really what was the woman's excuse? Nothing. Nothing at all. Malcolm is a terror and she was his partner.

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  53. MckG17 October 2014 at 15:28

    I totally do not agree. Moira definitely wasn't his partner, because if anything, almost the entire 1% of Starling City, was Malcolm's partner, and you know why? Not because all those people were selfish or whatever, but because there was no going in against Malcolm.
    You do realize it was Robert WAY before Moira ever knew, that she only found out when Robert already started doing as much as possible to stop Malcolm in his tracks? Before she even knew it, Malcolm had already sabotaged the Gambit, and made his point to Moira, who was then alone with Thea. So she should have taken the risk she would have lost her then by telling her? And I don't exactly think that would be considered safe, even though Malcolm wouldn't have hurt her, Moira knew damn well what Malcolm was doing to Tommy, no way was she going to let that happen to Thea.


    Moira wasn't a bad person, neither was she selfish, she was just a woman that made some stupid mistakes. Let's not forget either that the whole revelation at trial of her affaire with Malcolm, was only added so they had a reason to come with that whole storyline of Thea being his daughter...


    But NEVER will I ever see Moira even close to as much of a terrible person, or as much of an actual terrorist, as Malcolm.
    Malcolm is the one doing this for his status quo, so he feels like he has someone to control again, someone to follow his every word, and someone that he will eventually use as a meat shield against Ra's, I'm sure of it.


    Like I said, Moira made a LOT of mistakes, granted, but you can't compare the two. Robert made a LOT of mistakes too, but he was also a really good person.

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  54. lsbloom17 October 2014 at 16:39

    The rest of the 1% were being blackmailed into helping in various ways--that was what the list was. Oliver thought those people in several instances deserved to die.


    You can try to apologize for Moira, but even Malcolm thanked her for her unwavering support. She had an affair with the man. She was vicious when she wanted to be--manipulating people for Malcolm, sacrificing her husband, getting rid of Ollie's baby mama, trying to convince Felicity to stay quiet, politically--but played helpless little follower to Malcolm and never once tried to talk him out of it. The only excuse she gave besides the bogus "save my kids" who apparently mattered more than either of the men she married, was that Robert got her involved in keeping the secret of him killing someone and getting started with the group in the first place. I mean she's willing to order around Triad and then call on the league of assassins but in 5 years she can't say boo to Malcolm. Please that is pathetic and inconsistent characterization. She could have called a press conference at any point, she could have gone to the FBI, she could have told Lance why his daughter was dead, she could have allied herself with Walter instead of hiding things. There was no guarantee that Malcolm would stop with killing Roberta and Oliver and Sara, she just went with it. She didn't want to go to prison, she didn't want to lose her house or anything else. She point blank stated that she didn't care about all the lives in the Glades. She was complicit and she deserved to burn for it.

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  55. MckG17 October 2014 at 17:47

    I still think you're blowing some of the things out of proportion of how it actually was, but that's just me I guess. But I'm just saying, you're still really making it sound like you're trying to convince that Malcolm is a better person than Moira, at least you seem way more against her than Malcolm.


    Malcolm has proven that he doesn't have a parental bone in him, 'cause all of his prenting led to Tommy's death, by his plan. I'm just saying that I don't understand how she can see him more of a parent, maybe Moira doesn't count, but Robert definitely does, and I just think that's, sad for his memory in a way.

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  56. lsbloom17 October 2014 at 18:12

    I'm emphasizing Moira's actions because you were arguing for absolving her of blame because she "loved" her children. As I said, I think Malcolm was a terror, but Moira wasn't innocent. The plan was Malcolm's and the dude was crazy, he is worse, but she shouldn't have gotten off so easily.


    As far as Thea is concerned "they were both mass murderers" so maybe the distinction, while significant, is such that it makes no difference as they are both so far over the line of morally acceptable as who cares, ie, infinity times infinity is still infinity. If she briefly forgave one mass murderer it's not inconceivable that she'd find a way to move past it with Malcolm as well.


    It's not my opinion that Malcolm would make a good parent. It's my opinion that Thea makes poor judgments and that she might be able to reconcile his past as she did with her mother for a time.

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  57. MckG17 October 2014 at 18:47

    I still hoped she would just be mostly using him for getting trained, and it frustrates me that they keep having herwith this poor jdugment, instead of having build on that small start of having her think straight. Not to forget that following Malcolm could impair her capability of good judgment completely, since he has none at all.


    I just can't wait for when they finally let her become who she's supposed to be, and actually awesome.

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