Today's User Submitted Daily (USD) Poll was submitted by Emma who was picked randomly from our Poll Submissions (see below).
Let us know in the comments what you voted for and why? Want to see your Poll posted on the site? Click the Blue Button below
Rules
- Polls need to be TV/Movie related.
- You must supply a Poll Question, and the possible choices. Please try to keep the number of options to a reasonable amount (Max of 20 Items)
- You can only Submit 1 Poll Per Day. Previous polls submitted will still be eligible for posting (ie you don't need to keep submitting the same poll everyday)
Each day we will pick one submitted poll at random to post on the site.
The one I remember is Gilmore Girls and David S. Rosenthal. That was when I learned how bad that sort of change can be. Season seven wasn't just terrible, it was an entirely different show.
way too many dick jokes and puns. there was like a dozen in each episode. not to mention season 6, her debut season when i re-watch the series i skip most of that season. the finale of the leviathan season was great though. The only thing that really, really pissed me off that season was they put baby in a corner. No-one puts baby in a corner.
This was so easy for me..CARVER has turned SPN into a whole new series. When he had Sam not look for Dean the whole concept of the show was thrown out.
The thing that bugs me most about season 6 is that the Eve storyline had so much potential that got wasted. Heaven and Hell had pretty much neutralised each other for the time being, so I loved that Purgatory was taking advantage of that vulnerability to become powerful. I loved that Eve was trying to infect as many humans as she could so she could gain power. In my opinion that only elevated the threat level of the series. Because let's face it once you've dealt with Heaven, Hell, Lucifer and Michael whereas can you go? So I liked that Eve's storyline gave us something brand new as well as being able to up the stakes. Then that whole epic storyline completely fizzled out in one episode, leaving us with nothing new which led us to evil Cas, who was himself neautralised in the first episode of season 7. It was just stupid to waste Eve like that.
I agree about her being over her head as showrunner but I'd kill to have her back in the writers' room. At least she knew the show's canon and didn't write the brothers out of character. She knew them inside and out, backwards and forward, which is a hell of a lot more than you can say for some of the people that they have now.
As far as her villainizing Castiel, I sort of feel like that was a natural progression thing with him anyway since angels really should have been done away with after season 5. They're too deus ex machina to the plot of the show to justify keeping around all the time and that's why they're always needing to write new arcs for Castiel where he's either completely separated from the brothers, without his powers or both. I know he's a fan favorite but they just really haven't known what to do with him in years now and it's sort of sad at this point.
Another thing about Gamble that I feel she gets a lot of unfair flak about is the fact that the network never really gave her the resources to pull off a decent arc. She had a totally different vision in mind with the Leviathan and Sam's hell memories in season 7 but because the show's budget was so terrible at the time she ended up having to scrap a lot of her original ideas. Basically what we saw in the first 2 episodes for Sam's hell memories needed to be scrapped for sporadic hallucinations of Lucifer instead and the Leviathan ended up looking like bad cartoons because she didn't have the budget for decent visual effects. The CW was trying to kill the show off by sticking it on in the Friday night death slot, as well. So her tenure wasn't without it's obstacles.
Sera Gamble without a doubt, I mean, SPN S6 and S7? Ugh. Scott Bucket also didn't do any favors to Dexter. By the way, isn't Sunil Nayar the current showrunner of Revenge? Why does it say Melissa Loy? In any case, Sunil Nayar stepping up for S3 only made the show better coming from S2 which was good but not as great as S1
If anything it was mike Kelley who's done the most damage to revenge in season 2, which clearly showed he didn't know the direction that he was going to take the show.
Looks like people don't know that Julie Plec was TVD's EP all along. She's only stopped writing, so if you want to blame someone for last season's mess that would be Caroline Dries.
As EP she has the right to veto a story line or episode script. She's supposed to know this show and its characters inside and out. When the show becomes OTT or OOC, you know it. She approved of Caroline's direction therefore condoning the mess TVD has become. She also co-wrote one episode so it's not like she doesn't know what was happening in Mystic Falls. If she's too busy to pay attention to a show that's falling apart, maybe she's not the multi-tasker she thinks she is.
Sera Gamble and Jeremy Carver. I can't choose. One took away small important things that were beloved by fans, one rips the brothers canon apart and smiles when he tells us to like it. Ugh. The EP and writers of Prison Break all deserve to be on the NEVER WATCH THEIR SHOWS AGAIN list. I actively search for writers of new shows to make sure none of them are involved. I hold grudges and I'm OCD.
I was wondering if "Community" would be in here. I didn't hate the fourth season the way many other fans did, personally, but I also won't argue that it's their weakest, and that the change in showrunners was very noticeable. I do feel for new showrunners, though, I must say-I don't doubt there are some out there who don't know what they're doing, who don't have a strong grasp on or understanding of the series they're supposed to be in charge of. But I also know that there are many outside influences that factor into a show suddenly struggling creatively, too, most notably crappy interference or lack of proper support from the networks the shows air on. So I hesitate to always put the blame right on the showrunners when things fall apart.
I voted for Melissa Loy (Revenge) - Season 2 was a mess. They created a mythology that was simply too big for the show and it collapsed in itself. I'm glad the days of The Initiative are behind us.
Jeremy Carver. Now and forever, Jeremy Carver. He took my favorite show for 7 years running and completely trashed it in one year. Anything he touches I will automatically stay away from for my own sanity.
My vote goes towards Gamble and Carver for Supernatural. Seasons 1-5 was the textbook definition of how to create a story arc with plot points that were artfully written to fit into a very creative story which had a clear beginning, middle, and end. Every since season 6, it feels as though the writers and show runners are throwing out different stories to see which one sticks. There is no consistency in the story telling. Worse yet, characters have taken major hits. The character that has taken the biggest blow is Sam, starting with him not even attempting to find a way to pull Dean out of Purgatory. That is a creative mistake that fans to this day have a hard time getting past.
It's so strange how different people view things. Every since season 6 of Supernatural, it feels to me like the show became about Dean's journey with the viewers getting a more in depth view of how circumstances affected him more so than other characters. Case in point, Sam's near death experience and subsequent angelic possession became more about Dean trying to save his brother and how he was torn up about deceiving Sam. Those emotions turned to guilt and self-loathing when Gadreel took control of Sam and killed Kevin. We didn't really Sam's point of view in what he experienced and how he felt before, during, and after the possession. In short, it feels to me like Dean has become the lead character and all the other characters are supporting players.
Bobby died on Gamble's watch so she gets my vote but in all honesty, I think Carver has done the most creative damage to a show I once had on my must watch list.
Gamble, Carver, and Buck all deserve this. Everything since Season 5 ended on Supernatural has been awful and it's only getting worse, and Dexter's final season was one of the worst final seasons of a show I've seen (it and HIMYM are my 2 most hated final seasons).
I put Sera Gamble just because out of all the choices here she's the one I least like. I actually don't hate season 6 or 7 (I'm one of those rare people who liked the leviathans) but Carver is doing great because I LOVED seasons 8 and 9. 3 and 5 will probably always be my faves but 8 and 9 were definitely better than 6 and 7. For me, the recurring characters play a big part in whether I like a season or not. Really liked Gadreel and I loved how Crowley was the big bad in season 8...and season 9 was nice to see a new side to him. I know some people whine about it "not being the same anymore"...but...well, duh! It would be so boring if the show didn't evolve and change some.
I go with Sera Gamble. She had two promising storylines in S6 and S7 with the "Mother of all" and the "Leviathans" things, and completely wasted them. Correctly done, that could have made two really good seasons.
She was co-showrunner with kevin williamson for the 1st 2 seasons.Season 3 and 4 were solely in her charge.In the 5th season,caroline dries took over and she acts as co-runner again as she had to co-run TO with michael narducci.So,season 5 was mostly delena fangirl caroline dries's fault.
Hi ;) ! I 100% agree with you! I'll just add that, like you, I'm quite sure she definitely knows about those things, but the woman didn't have one but three shows to take care of, this year. It's probably one of the reasons why TTP was cancelled, for instance. Also, TO went through some bumps in the road, though I thought it was minor and I definitely loved it (I can't wait for season 2!). However, TVD suffered so much quality wise this year. That and the fact Caroline Dries kinda took over as well! I mean I don't think you can be as involved in the creative process having so much on your plate. And I don't think Caroline Dries managed her "transition" to writer into EP very well. Finger crossed, it'll be better this year. Plus, now Julie "only" has TO and TVD (which are part of the same universe) to focus on. Hopefully that will translate into the writing as well.
Dan Harmon didn't have anything to do with season 4, he had been fired by Sony. You can't blame him. Blame the Happy Endings guys they were running it.
I voted Other...SMASH was AMAZING until NBC kicked Creator Teresa Rebeck to the curb and brought in Joshua Safran to replace her...he totally destroyed the vision Rebeck had in store for the future show, resulting in its premature cancellation...it probably still would've been going today if BBC had their brains in the place -_-
I'm not a SPN or a Dexter fan, but I used to be a True Blood addict! At least when this show was a lot of dark humor, just as hilarious as creepy and dark. The last season... was a little boring for me and all the characters I used to love seemed quite bland and annoying. So I voted for Brian Buckner.
Inclusion of Jennifer Johnson seems a little pointless, given that she quit the role within two months and no episodes aired with her as showrunner. Hmm.
I enjoyed the first season, but I think it definitely had its problems. However, replacing the showrunner was not the way to solve those problems, because it definitely killed the vibe of the show. They probably could have improved the show by putting together a stronger team of TV writers and also making some changes to the cast. The other problem was that the lead actress (McPhee) was pretty weak, but I think the show could have still survived in spite of that.
I thought it was only Mike Kelly. I did go to her IMDB and she was in the show for the first 2 seasons as an executive producer, but not as a showrunner.
Sera Gamble, hands down, i stopped watching SPN 'cause of the direction she took. Season 6 and 7 were awefull. When Season 5 finished i tought they were going to go on the "Making God pay for not doing nothing" as Dean said... That would be the right aproach.
Since then the show became a repetition... I mean, Dean went to Hell,he came back and then Sam went to Hell... But then Sam came back, Dean went away AGAIN, he came back, the characters are stuck on a limbo.
The show took a nosedive when Williamson left, not with season 5. So long as Plec is continuing to be in charge of breaking the season-long arcs, I doubt that we'll see much in the way of improvement. It was clearly Williamson who was interested in the story potential of vampires and monsters, whereas Plec just uses that stuff as window dressing for character drama.
Mazzara's issues were ones which could be corrected by writing and pacing. Lots of people loved season three, but I thought it was the worst season of the series. The one season which was under FULL creative control of Mazzara. The characterization had gone haywire. Not to mention to utterly disappointing presentation of one of the most anticipated "villains" from the comic book. At least I'll understand a bit better when Negan's not properly done. With as many "F"-bombs as he drops in a panel ...
I skipped the eps from the return from winter hiatus until the last three eps of the season. And I still followed the finale with no problem. Goes to show how much important stuff happened in the span of about 8 or 9 eps
IMHO, the worst season of True Blood was Alan's last - season five. At that point, I still expected SOMETHING of the books to be included, if not a direct adaptation. They did it wonderfully with seasons two and three, giving enough to keep it interesting and new for book readers. Four was ... eh. But fourth book is one of my least favorites, but Marnie was a better villain on the show with much clearer and more sympathetic motives for whammying Eric.
When Bryan Singer left House mid season 3, David Shore not only lost the person who held his ideas in check, he promoted Katie Jacobs who pushed for House to be in a relationship with Cuddy, the final nail in the show's coffin.
It turned to shit when Alan Ball was still around. This is the same guy who's favorite scene of season 4 was Jason getting raped. The guy got bored with his own show on season 4 and took it downhill with his ADHD storytelling. Buckner just made sure it stayed in that direction.
Scott Buck for sure. The biggest quality gap in TV is found in Dexter. Dexter's best seasons are like the Nolan Batman movies, while the worst are like the Schumacher Batman movies, which are the ones Buck made. I'm surprised he was responsible for season 7, which was actually solid for awhile. But season 6 and 8 may be the worst seasons of TV I've ever watched. Brian Buckner gets an honorable mention as well, because he sucked. However, I don't think he really did much creative damage, but the show was already damaged when he took over. I'm so sick of people acting like the show was always great when Alan Ball helmed, but he is the one who destroyed it with his ADHD storytelling. Season 5 was as panned as this last season.
Sera for sure... Jeremy hasn't done much better since mind you, but Sera's reign was the begging of the end which he inherited and just kept on crapping over it...
I'm still hoping Eric will slowly step back in this year and gradually regain control and possibly put things back on track, somehow...
Gamble was messy as fuck, but things were actually happening and it was at least exciting. Carver just feels like he's stagnated on a swamp trying to capture the feeling of the glory days by rehashing plots and beating to death the same themes without any evolution nor change.
I kinda dislike Carver over Gamble; at least the plots of season 6 and 7 were interesting; season's 8 and 9 are trying so hard to cap on old themes, like a reunion album with no real original material, only recycled songs.
I have to say that, even though deeply flawed, I liked the ambition of season two. Season 3 was just so bland and soapy in that light that It just kinda lost me right from the bat.
Thank you for putting into words how I've felt about supernatural since it all went down hill. I miss deans necklace, and them calling each other 'jerk and 'bi*ch', and Deans rock and roll fetish, and countless other things, but most of all, I miss the brothers relationship. From the beginning Kripke said that the core of the show was about the brothers and how the would literally do anything for each other. And now Sam is saying they can't be brothers if they are going to be hunting partners and that he would let Dean die. WHAT?!?!? That is like saying that Sam and Dean don't hunt monsters. It is what the show is about. When someone asks you to describe supernatural what do you say? You say "Two brothers that hunt monsters". I just watched and old interview for Eric Kripke ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhXpWYDgGwk ) that someone needs to show Carver immediately.
I partly agree with what you said. I think you're right about Kevin Williamson but him and Julie Plec worked together at this point! And I think the show was always big on mythology AND character drama at the beginning, at least! Here's the thing actually, I never said it was just season 5 (which was the worst!) and I agree, Julie Plec sort of gave up on season-long arcs. But I don't think she did it entirely. I mean yes there were messy game changers and plot-twists in both season 3 and 4 (which was when the show started to go downhill for me!). However both seasons dealt with fighting and killing the Originals and then searching for the Cure. Mythology was still there! Not saying it was always done right and that there weren't plotholes, but still it was still a huge part of the story. That being said some character's characterization started to get a little messy. Elena started to get annoying by season 3 but I understood they had to make her hesitate like that because there needed to be a change in the romantic department, etc... Season 4 was kinda worse for her but I still liked the fact they gave her a bit of an edge and they had her become more selfish in the search for the cure. Those things were never adressed though and I felt like it was a huge misstep, because it ruined any potential Elena had. How do you make your heroine become a serial killer and not having her to take responsilibity for her actions? That just didn't work out for me but I digress. Season 5 could have redeemed both seasons by giving up on the love triangle and focusing more on those characters' individual journeys. It didn't and I'm not sure it's entirely on Plec ;)!
I always told people that SPN was about a FAMILY that just happened to hunt monsters. That family bond was what made the show for me. Loved Baby, the classic rock but most of all the brother love. Carver killed that his first ep when Sam "ran, hit dog, met girl" and DID NOT LOOK FOR DEAN :(
I'm not too big a fan of what happened in the last seasons of True Blood but I gotta admit I don't really know who's responsible for that. I only know it's not Alan Ball's fault... I'm still very happy with Supernatural though I understand why some people would be upset, there were some pretty huge changes.
From the ones I watch: - Glenn did a great job with The Walking Dead. I loved Season 4 but Season 3 is still my favorite for the strong first half. I would probably rank them like this: Season 3A>Season4A> Season 4B> Season 3B> Season 2> Season 1. I think Gimple is still very competent though and both are big improvements over the original showrunner - I will not judge Jennifer for The Following since we never got to see her work, I don't think she should be on this poll - Melissa Loy? I had never heard of her but from what I've read from the comments below she was a co-showrunner during the first couple of seasons? I don't know. For me Revenge would be something like Season 1>Season 3A>Season 2>Season 3B. I liked both Mike Keyley and Sunil Nayar. I think the change was positive for the show though, even if I did like Season 2 for the most part and never got the hate. - I am one of the few who actually was ok with the Dexter finale so I don't have a problem with that specific episode. However, even if I did like the final season and the themes it brought, I thought it lacked a certain "finality" feel that I like to see on my shows when they are doing announced season finales. Not sure if the showrunner is to blame though. He had both one of my favorite ever seasons of Dexter (Season 7) and one of the worst ones (Season 6). So I am not sure where that leaves him. I would rank Dexter something like Season 4>Season 2>Season 7...Season 5>Season 8>Season 1... Season 3....................Season 6, though the classifications within each tier are kind of interchangable. So I don't really have a pattern as far as showrunner goes. - Now, True Blood. I don't think it was the new showrunner that ruined the show. I actually thought Season 6 was the best season in years (BY FAR) and I thought Season 7 had some decent episodes and was no worse than Seasons 5 and 4 with Ball. I hated the season finale, strongly (and this comes from someone who loved Lost and How I Met Your Mother finales and liked Dexter's finale, so I am not one to hate easily), but I am not sure if it would have been any better with Ball. I would probably rank something like: Season 3>Seasons 1,2,6>Seasons 4,5,7. I would rank 7 a bit higher than 4 and 5 if not for the finale (4 and 5 I have huge problems with due to the number of disconnected storylines within)
Season 3 is my favorite though is mostly for 3A, I had some issues with 3B and I really hated that they did the obvious move of killing Andrea instead of working their way into integrating her again with the group and continued to explore her character, she had too many relationships to dwell into. To me, killing of Andrea is still the show's biggest flaw.
I don't think Season 2 of Revenge was nearly as bad as some people make it out to be and I still prefer it to Season 3B for instance (excluding the last two episodes) which I didn't think was all that strong (especially compared with the insane 3A). Season 2 had some powerful stuff like the episodes surrounding Amanda's death and the amazing two hour season finale.
This being said, I do think the change was very positive for Revenge because I don't think Mike had the vision necessary to keep Revenge going 22 episodes a year. He was doing a lot of stuff in the show that didn't feel like having consequences (the main one being the introduction of Em's mother).
Season 6 was one of the worst seasons of any of my favorite shows, it was mind shocking how they turned it into such a bad thing. However, Season 7 was one of my favorite seasons of the show's entire run and I also didn't think Season 8 was bad.
I liked S2 as a whole as well, people go really strongly about it, but episodes like "Sacrifice", "Masquerade" and "Truth" are truly outstanding. Its problem was that sometimes it was all over the place.
Season 3 showed a very positive change of direction since it managed to become more focused and use that to its advantage. I loved S 3A, but I disagree with you over 3B (which for me is among the best parts of Revenge with the exception of the episode 3x15 "Struggle"), I think that after the wedding everything that happened was more intense because every single Greyson was on cautious mode against Emily and she was in danger of being found out.
Sunil Nayar has proved to have a vision of how to make a show that can change and adapt as it goes on, and that's exactly what it is needed in order to make a 22 episodes season, so the change- as you said- is very positive. Besides, people are now pretty happy with the quality of the show as of right now and it is generiting a lot of buzz, so that can only mean good things for the show.
I had forgotten about Masquerade, I loved that episode.
The problem with 3B for me was that even though I loved the Emily related stuff it had too much filler going. I didn't care for Pascal or Margaux and all the drama between them and I certainly didn't care for Jack's mother stuff especially because it was obvious they were going to write her away in a very short amount of episodes like they eventually did and then act like she never showed up.
By very very very very far, The West Wing. The first three seasons were some of the best television has ever seen (don't believe me, go watch Two Cathedrals). And then from S4 onwards... meh. And it got to the point of being an actual disaster, with the way the decided to finish the show.
Definitely agree with this! I actually started to drift away a little over halfway into season three, though. But one and two were amazing television from start to finish. Have no idea what happened to anything or anyone after season three.
With you on True Blood. The showrunners had a lot of garbage to clean up after the abysmal season five. By season seven, they were mostly focused on tying up the H vamps and setting up the endings for the principle characters. And I'm one of the few who understood why Bill wanted to die. Just thought it unfair of him to ask Sookie to be a part of it, esp. as she felt terrible guilt for infecting him in the first place.
Kripke has a contract to develop two more shows for NBC, I believe. I'm pretty sure I saw that somewhere, esp. once Revolution was 100% cancelled and gone. I don't see him coming back to SPN in any capacity.
The comic book version of Andrea never being allowed to make it onto screen was TWD's biggest flaw, IMHO. They had a great gal cast, I thought, "Wow, this should be cool to see Laurie bring bad-ass sharpshootin' Andrea to life!" And I thought they were gonna head in that direction in early season two, but then nothing came of her picking up a gun and having a natural talent with it. Then there was the season of Woodbury further messing with her character ... I supported the actress until the end of the season, but it was getting difficult to keep supporting the character by the finale, with the way she was written.
Agreed! Jeremy Carver has been the WORST thing to ever happen to Supernatural. I haven't purchased Seasons 8 or 9, and I doubt S10 will be any good either. He has been a destructive force on this show.
Jeremy Carver wins my vote. When a soulless Sam has a better bond w/Dean than JC's version of Sam in S8, you know there is a problem!
People can say what they want about Sera, but she didn't unnecessarily trash the brotherhood for no reason. She didn't repeatedly throw Sam under a bus as JC has done for the past two seasons and will continue to do next season ("The audience will be wondering whose the real monster: Sam or a demon?"). She didn't violate canon and just change the backgrounds of major characters (Tessa, Dean (Bad Boys)) or species (reapers are suddenly angels).
I could re-watch S6 any time. I didn't care much for S7 but it was better than 8 or 9. I barely made it through Seasons 8 and 9 of Supernatural. I don't even own the DVDs for S8 or S9.
JC has been a complete and utter disappointment. At least I enjoyed most of S6. I'm one of the few who liked Soulless!Sam. I can't say the same about anything from S8 or S9. Out of both seasons and a total of 46 episodes, there are literally only FOUR episodes I would gladly rewatch. That's sad.
I'm wondering what your 4 are. There are more than 4 that I "will" watch if I have someone else that wants to watch an episode. But in 2 years, off the top of my head, I can only think of 3 episodes that I would watch with little urging.
1) Everybody Hates Hitler (I think I can actually say I love this episode), 2) Sacrifice (Really enjoy the Sam/Crowley parts, most of the rest is fine), 3) The Purge (Not great, but enjoyable)
Honorable mentions go to the following, I've only watched them once but I don't believe there were any parts that I really didn't like.
1) As Time Goes By, 2) Remember the Titans
Most of Season 8 seemed to have very little with the brothers getting along in it. The entire season just seemed way off to me. After all of that stuff that went on between them, then there is a quick speech about "I may have said some things that set you back on your heels... but...." No. No buts.
Carver just doesn't get the brothers. Until As Time Goes By and Everybody Hates Hitler, I didn't even like Supernatural that year... not even a little. Hunter Heroici felt a little more like Supernatural then any of the previous episodes... but I was so put off by the season that I couldn't "really" like anything until Everybody Hates Hitler. I guess by then I let go of my "but this isn't Supernatural" complaints and just started accepting the show as a similar show with Jared and Jensen in it...
I thought the Sam/Crowley interaction in Sacrifice was incredible and I absolutely loved the final bit with the Angels falling... but erasing all of that potential and replacing it with angels slaughtering each other and nearly leaving Sam out of the story until he found out about Gadreel... those things really turned me off early on in Season 9. Again I was feeling like it was a show that I couldn't even watch.
There were lots of isolated scenes that gave me a hint of the Supernatural I knew, but there was always another burst of slaughter and angel stuff or cutting away from the part of the story that I was partially interested in that I just couldn't enjoy any of Season 9. I didn't even have that great finale that I had in Season 8. The only episode I even half liked from Season 9 was due to an entertaining cop, Dean being a bit of a comedian (I like light hearted episodes) and Sam looking good.
Unlike many people I loved to hate Metatron and never got tired of him until the very end of the finale, but I still barely made it through Season 9 and I hope never to see an episode from early Season 8 ever again.
I loved Soulless Sam, Jared was awesome in that role. I also loved Feral Dean in season 8, but that is the only good thing I can say about it. I don't use the word HATE often, but I hated what they did to Sam, he was one of my favorite characters, a member of my family and I came to the point of not liking him. Even the last ep of season 8 when he was having his pity party I was screaming at the TV "ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAT WORDS..SAM." Season 9 was better but I am having a hard time getting the taste of that first ep of 8 out of my brain. Ran, hit beautiful Aussie, met awful girl and forgot about Dean & Kevin. WHAT???
Yay! Another Soulless!Sam fan. I loved that guy and thought Jared did a great job w/it.
I was disappointed in S5 though I loved SS. I was not expecting much from S6 so I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed it. I didn't know what was wrong w/Sam, and that was interesting to me. I like the Campbells though they were horribly wasted. I didn't care for Lisa/Ben, but L/B were better than Amelia. I just didn't hate S6. I enjoyed S6 quite a bit. Of all the post-Kripke seasons, S6 ranks at the top for me. My ranking post-Kripke from best to worst would be: 6, 7, 8, 9. Now, the second half of S6 wasn't as strong or good as the first half, but it was still more entertaining than anything Carver has done.
S7 is a mixed bag. I thought the first two episodes were awesome, and HCW might be one of my favorite Supernatural episodes. I'm not sure what went wrong, but Sam's really interesting - at least to me - hellucination story was dropped for a "Dean is depressed" arc. That never made sense, and the Leviathans turned out to be a horrible, horrible, horrible enemy/threat. It was just bad.
Hahaha! Your two "honorable mentions" and your #1 are among the four episodes I would re-watch.
So, my four would be: ATGB, EHH, T&E, and RTT. There are actually five episodes I would rewatch b/c I forgot about the one where Ezekiel was expelled from Sam. I thought that was a solid, good episode from start to finish. Don't remember the title though. Haha! Sadly, I can't remember titles lately, and I can barely remember what happened in an episode when I used to know them back and forth.
I couldn't agree more w/you about S8 not really starting - for me at least - until ATGB. Prior to that episode, I felt completely disconnected to a show I had loved for 7 years. I even forgot it was airing a few times as I watched other things. Sam felt so "off" to me in early S8. I absolutely hated that OOC nonsense about Sam not looking for Dean. I liked Benny, but the Benny drama btw Sam and Dean was contrived and completely OOC for Sam. Sam is the FIRST one to embrace a supernatural creature so why the inexplicable hatred for Benny?!?! The Amelia drama and FBs were utterly pointless. What was the point of Sam's time w/Amelia?!?!? Carver acted like Amelia was Sam's first chance at normal when Sam had normal with JESSICA!!!! Am I supposed to believe that Sam's whacked relationship w/the horrible Amelia rivaled his relationship w/Jessica?!?!!?! I don't! That is a joke!
I feel like the show got new juice or returned to itself w/ATGB. I often wonder if that was actually a good episode or if I was so excited to see something that recognized the Supernatural of old that I overlooked its flaws. But for me, the season didn't start until that episode, and I thought it was going to be great from that point forward but I still had problems w/other episodes in the second half. The episode w/the familiar . . . . and I honestly can't remember any other episode from S8. I remember Sam taking an ice bath and coughing up blood in a church but I don't remember what those episodes were about. Anyway . . . .
I enjoyed the "broment" in Sacrifice, but I wouldn't watch the entire episode again. They kept interrupting the broment w/some angel nonsense I didn't care about. I like Castiel but I have found all the angel storylines horrifically boring. My attention drifts every time angels are on my screen fighting about something.
I no longer watch for entire episodes b/c those are so unsatisfying. I watch for moments and the occasional "broment," which is very rare under Carver. In some episode this season, Sam and Dean discuss Sam falling off a bike or something . . . that was a nice "broment." I liked Cas and Ezekiel's interactions in the finale. They were good and acted well off each other. Sadly, they killed off Zeke. I liked Dean's line about being proud and the scene of Sam in the dark drinking. I liked a lot of the Zeke/Dean interaction early in the season. The one time Sam expressed concern about himself was a good moment. Umm . . . those are the only moments that immediately come to mind that I enjoyed.
It's weird though b/c I didn't hate the season premiere. I thought it was good. The episode where they Zeke came out and showed his wings was okay, but something just seems missing from the show.
I wish I had some optimism about the next season but I don't. My expectactions are very low.
I hear ya. I guess I still want to see how the Sam/Dean adventure ends.
I was just remarking that I didn't hate a lot of the episodes this year, but many of them were just "meh" to me. Something is off - for me - w/the show. The desire to see the season again is just not there for me, which is why I haven't purchased Seasons 8 or 9.
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
Brian Buckner. Yuckkkkkkk!!!!!
ReplyDeletep.s true blood turned to shit after Alan left...but the final season was awful that finale uhhhh i wish i could forget about it.
ReplyDeleteBrad Kern (BatB)
ReplyDeleteThe one I remember is Gilmore Girls and David S. Rosenthal. That was when I learned how bad that sort of change can be. Season seven wasn't just terrible, it was an entirely different show.
ReplyDeleteScott Buck, he took over from S6 of Dexter and the show turned into a mess and really an embarrassment compared to the earlier seasons.
ReplyDeleteSera Gamble. Leviathans. Enough said.
ReplyDeleteThe Walking Dead season 2
ReplyDeleteDexter Final Deason
Picked Buckner, but I would add Caroline Dries to the list.
ReplyDeleteway too many dick jokes and puns. there was like a dozen in each episode. not to mention season 6, her debut season when i re-watch the series i skip most of that season. the finale of the leviathan season was great though. The only thing that really, really pissed me off that season was they put baby in a corner. No-one puts baby in a corner.
ReplyDeleteThis was so easy for me..CARVER has turned SPN into a whole new series. When he had Sam not look for Dean the whole concept of the show was thrown out.
ReplyDeleteHas to be Scott Buck (Dexter).
ReplyDeleteI would also like to add Dan Harmon (Community), because season 4 was just a complete mess. But hey, let's just blame it on the gas leak ;)
Sera Gamble
ReplyDeleteRevenge actually recovered in season 3. Season 2 was good but a bit all over the place.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that bugs me most about season 6 is that the Eve storyline had so much potential that got wasted. Heaven and Hell had pretty much neutralised each other for the time being, so I loved that Purgatory was taking advantage of that vulnerability to become powerful. I loved that Eve was trying to infect as many humans as she could so she could gain power. In my opinion that only elevated the threat level of the series. Because let's face it once you've dealt with Heaven, Hell, Lucifer and Michael whereas can you go? So I liked that Eve's storyline gave us something brand new as well as being able to up the stakes. Then that whole epic storyline completely fizzled out in one episode, leaving us with nothing new which led us to evil Cas, who was himself neautralised in the first episode of season 7. It was just stupid to waste Eve like that.
ReplyDeleteI agree about her being over her head as showrunner but I'd kill to have her back in the writers' room. At least she knew the show's canon and didn't write the brothers out of character. She knew them inside and out, backwards and forward, which is a hell of a lot more than you can say for some of the people that they have now.
ReplyDeleteAs far as her villainizing Castiel, I sort of feel like that was a natural progression thing with him anyway since angels really should have been done away with after season 5. They're too deus ex machina to the plot of the show to justify keeping around all the time and that's why they're always needing to write new arcs for Castiel where he's either completely separated from the brothers, without his powers or both. I know he's a fan favorite but they just really haven't known what to do with him in years now and it's sort of sad at this point.
Another thing about Gamble that I feel she gets a lot of unfair flak about is the fact that the network never really gave her the resources to pull off a decent arc. She had a totally different vision in mind with the Leviathan and Sam's hell memories in season 7 but because the show's budget was so terrible at the time she ended up having to scrap a lot of her original ideas. Basically what we saw in the first 2 episodes for Sam's hell memories needed to be scrapped for sporadic hallucinations of Lucifer instead and the Leviathan ended up looking like bad cartoons because she didn't have the budget for decent visual effects. The CW was trying to kill the show off by sticking it on in the Friday night death slot, as well. So her tenure wasn't without it's obstacles.
Sera Gamble without a doubt, I mean, SPN S6 and S7? Ugh.
ReplyDeleteScott Bucket also didn't do any favors to Dexter.
By the way, isn't Sunil Nayar the current showrunner of Revenge? Why does it say Melissa Loy? In any case, Sunil Nayar stepping up for S3 only made the show better coming from S2 which was good but not as great as S1
Brad Kern (Charmed and BATB)
ReplyDeleteBrain Buckner (True Blood)
The whole season sucked the second they killed Tara offscreen.
ReplyDeleteOther: Julie Plec, The Vampire Diaries
ReplyDeleteI think Revenge improved this past season.
The decision to kill her offscreen was absolutely stupid.
ReplyDeleteThe World Building lacked a lot, when Michel Lovretta left Lost Girl after S1.
ReplyDeleteIf anything it was mike Kelley who's done the most damage to revenge in season 2, which clearly showed he didn't know the direction that he was going to take the show.
ReplyDeleteJulie Plec -TVD
ReplyDeleteLooks like people don't know that Julie Plec was TVD's EP all along. She's only stopped writing, so if you want to blame someone for last season's mess that would be Caroline Dries.
ReplyDeleteJulie Plec.
ReplyDeleteJennifer Johnson declined on replace Quitter Williamson as The Following showrunner because her woman side overcame her employee side.
As EP she has the right to veto a story line or episode script. She's supposed to know this show and its characters inside and out. When the show becomes OTT or OOC, you know it. She approved of Caroline's direction therefore condoning the mess TVD has become. She also co-wrote one episode so it's not like she doesn't know what was happening in Mystic Falls. If she's too busy to pay attention to a show that's falling apart, maybe she's not the multi-tasker she thinks she is.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people has said this but..
ReplyDeleteJulie Plec and Caroline Dries-TVD. I still recovering from the mess that season 5 was.
Sera Gamble and Jeremy Carver. I can't choose. One took away small important things that were beloved by fans, one rips the brothers canon apart and smiles when he tells us to like it. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteThe EP and writers of Prison Break all deserve to be on the NEVER WATCH THEIR SHOWS AGAIN list. I actively search for writers of new shows to make sure none of them are involved. I hold grudges and I'm OCD.
I agree and the decision to use her to "redeem" her awful mother was even worse :( !
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if "Community" would be in here. I didn't hate the fourth season the way many other fans did, personally, but I also won't argue that it's their weakest, and that the change in showrunners was very noticeable.
ReplyDeleteI do feel for new showrunners, though, I must say-I don't doubt there are some out there who don't know what they're doing, who don't have a strong grasp on or understanding of the series they're supposed to be in charge of. But I also know that there are many outside influences that factor into a show suddenly struggling creatively, too, most notably crappy interference or lack of proper support from the networks the shows air on. So I hesitate to always put the blame right on the showrunners when things fall apart.
Makes you wonder if he wasn't under orders to blow up the show to make room for one of those new shows that is just lie all the others on the network.
ReplyDeleteI voted for Melissa Loy (Revenge) - Season 2 was a mess. They created a mythology that was simply too big for the show and it collapsed in itself. I'm glad the days of The Initiative are behind us.
ReplyDeleteI thought Mike Kelley was the showrunner on S1 and S2 as well, did I miss something?
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, I forgot. I guess only half the blame goes to Melissa then. :P
ReplyDeleteBrian Buckner, of course.
ReplyDeleteSera Gamble is a nice lady but honestly she destroyed Supernatural....
ReplyDeleteJeremy Carver. Now and forever, Jeremy Carver. He took my favorite show for 7 years running and completely trashed it in one year. Anything he touches I will automatically stay away from for my own sanity.
ReplyDeleteWhen did Brand Kern step in?
ReplyDeleteMy vote goes towards Gamble and Carver for Supernatural. Seasons 1-5 was the textbook definition of how to create a story arc with plot points that were artfully written to fit into a very creative story which had a clear beginning, middle, and end. Every since season 6, it feels as though the writers and show runners are throwing out different stories to see which one sticks. There is no consistency in the story telling. Worse yet, characters have taken major hits. The character that has taken the biggest blow is Sam, starting with him not even attempting to find a way to pull Dean out of Purgatory. That is a creative mistake that fans to this day have a hard time getting past.
ReplyDeleteIt's so strange how different people view things. Every since season 6 of Supernatural, it feels to me like the show became about Dean's journey with the viewers getting a more in depth view of how circumstances affected him more so than other characters. Case in point, Sam's near death experience and subsequent angelic possession became more about Dean trying to save his brother and how he was torn up about deceiving Sam. Those emotions turned to guilt and self-loathing when Gadreel took control of Sam and killed Kevin. We didn't really Sam's point of view in what he experienced and how he felt before, during, and after the possession. In short, it feels to me like Dean has become the lead character and all the other characters are supporting players.
ReplyDeleteBobby died on Gamble's watch so she gets my vote but in all honesty, I think Carver has done the most creative damage to a show I once had on my must watch list.
ReplyDeleteI fucking hate Scott Buck. Season 6, and 8 were awful. Especially the series finale.
ReplyDeleteGamble, Carver, and Buck all deserve this. Everything since Season 5 ended on Supernatural has been awful and it's only getting worse, and Dexter's final season was one of the worst final seasons of a show I've seen (it and HIMYM are my 2 most hated final seasons).
ReplyDeleteI put Sera Gamble just because out of all the choices here she's the one I least like. I actually don't hate season 6 or 7 (I'm one of those rare people who liked the leviathans) but Carver is doing great because I LOVED seasons 8 and 9. 3 and 5 will probably always be my faves but 8 and 9 were definitely better than 6 and 7. For me, the recurring characters play a big part in whether I like a season or not. Really liked Gadreel and I loved how Crowley was the big bad in season 8...and season 9 was nice to see a new side to him. I know some people whine about it "not being the same anymore"...but...well, duh! It would be so boring if the show didn't evolve and change some.
ReplyDeleteAlso, people are saying Julie Plec....but wasn't she always TVD's showrunner (correct me if I'm wrong)? That 5th season WAS gods awful though!
ReplyDeleteI go with Sera Gamble. She had two promising storylines in S6 and S7 with the "Mother of all" and the "Leviathans" things, and completely wasted them. Correctly done, that could have made two really good seasons.
ReplyDeleteShe was co-showrunner with kevin williamson for the 1st 2 seasons.Season 3 and 4 were solely in her charge.In the 5th season,caroline dries took over and she acts as co-runner again as she had to co-run TO with michael narducci.So,season 5 was mostly delena fangirl caroline dries's fault.
ReplyDeleteHi ;) ! I 100% agree with you!
ReplyDeleteI'll just add that, like you, I'm quite sure she definitely knows about those things, but the woman didn't have one but three shows to take care of, this year. It's probably one of the reasons why TTP was cancelled, for instance. Also, TO went through some bumps in the road, though I thought it was minor and I definitely loved it (I can't wait for season 2!). However, TVD suffered so much quality wise this year. That and the fact Caroline Dries kinda took over as well! I mean I don't think you can be as involved in the creative process having so much on your plate. And I don't think Caroline Dries managed her "transition" to writer into EP very well. Finger crossed, it'll be better this year.
Plus, now Julie "only" has TO and TVD (which are part of the same universe) to focus on. Hopefully that will translate into the writing as well.
I like your enthusiasm. I feel the same way, but for Scott Buck.
ReplyDeleteSeason9 of Supernatural beats 6 and 7 in terms of awfulness for me. I could barely get through episodes. Agreed about Buck though.
ReplyDeleteArrow's show runner had nothing to do with TVD or TO.
ReplyDeleteDan Harmon didn't have anything to do with season 4, he had been fired by Sony. You can't blame him. Blame the Happy Endings guys they were running it.
ReplyDeleteSeason 7 was pretty good (mainly thanks to Isaak). 6 and 8 though yeah they were awful.
ReplyDeleteS7 started really well for me but lost it towards the end. S6 though oh god that was terrible.
ReplyDeleteFair. I'm just sad they killed Isaak. He was awesome.
ReplyDeleteHa! If I had ever seen Dexter, I would probably be right there with you.
ReplyDeleteDon't forgot season 6 of Dexter.
ReplyDeleteOf course, Season 6 was definitely the 2nd weakest season of the show, but Season 8 takes the cake.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't have said it better.
ReplyDeleteI voted Other...SMASH was AMAZING until NBC kicked Creator Teresa Rebeck to the curb and brought in Joshua Safran to replace her...he totally destroyed the vision Rebeck had in store for the future show, resulting in its premature cancellation...it probably still would've been going today if BBC had their brains in the place -_-
ReplyDeleteI don't know why Glen Mazzara is there. He wasn't bad, but Scott Gimple made a big improvement in the coherence of the show.
ReplyDeleteAgree. Mazzara wasn't bad at all, and Gimple is even better.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a SPN or a Dexter fan, but I used to be a True Blood addict! At least when this show was a lot of dark humor, just as hilarious as creepy and dark. The last season... was a little boring for me and all the characters I used to love seemed quite bland and annoying. So I voted for Brian Buckner.
ReplyDeleteInclusion of Jennifer Johnson seems a little pointless, given that she quit the role within two months and no episodes aired with her as showrunner. Hmm.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the first season, but I think it definitely had its problems. However, replacing the showrunner was not the way to solve those problems, because it definitely killed the vibe of the show. They probably could have improved the show by putting together a stronger team of TV writers and also making some changes to the cast. The other problem was that the lead actress (McPhee) was pretty weak, but I think the show could have still survived in spite of that.
ReplyDeleteYeah, who is Melissa Loy?? I've never heard of her lol
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure it's Sunil Nayar, and S3 was better than S2, so, no damage.
I think Melissa Loy and Mike Kelley were the original showrunners
ReplyDeleteYeah, you're right, I didn't mean to say that, but I meant that when Harmon was fired for Season 4, things really changed.
ReplyDeleteYet another good poll that I didn't think of.
ReplyDeleteI wanted the cake!
ReplyDeleteI was thinking of getting a tattoo that says "Sam didn't look for Dean!". :P
ReplyDeleteI thought it was only Mike Kelly. I did go to her IMDB and she was in the show for the first 2 seasons as an executive producer, but not as a showrunner.
ReplyDeleteSera Gamble, hands down, i stopped watching SPN 'cause of the direction she took. Season 6 and 7 were awefull. When Season 5 finished i tought they were going to go on the "Making God pay for not doing nothing" as Dean said... That would be the right aproach.
ReplyDeleteSince then the show became a repetition... I mean, Dean went to Hell,he came back and then Sam went to Hell... But then Sam came back, Dean went away AGAIN, he came back, the characters are stuck on a limbo.
I really miss Kripke...
The destruction of Dexter in its last few seasons is unparalleled
ReplyDeleteThe show took a nosedive when Williamson left, not with season 5. So long as Plec is continuing to be in charge of breaking the season-long arcs, I doubt that we'll see much in the way of improvement. It was clearly Williamson who was interested in the story potential of vampires and monsters, whereas Plec just uses that stuff as window dressing for character drama.
ReplyDeleteOkay, thank you for these informations. So, Mike Kelley, Mellisa Loy and Nikki Toscano left Revenge after season 2, that's a lot!
ReplyDeleteMazzara's issues were ones which could be corrected by writing and pacing. Lots of people loved season three, but I thought it was the worst season of the series. The one season which was under FULL creative control of Mazzara. The characterization had gone haywire. Not to mention to utterly disappointing presentation of one of the most anticipated "villains" from the comic book. At least I'll understand a bit better when Negan's not properly done. With as many "F"-bombs as he drops in a panel ...
ReplyDeleteCarver's definitely done way more damage than Gamble. Agreed!
ReplyDeleteI have only one word: THIS.
ReplyDeleteI skipped the eps from the return from winter hiatus until the last three eps of the season. And I still followed the finale with no problem. Goes to show how much important stuff happened in the span of about 8 or 9 eps
ReplyDeleteIMHO, the worst season of True Blood was Alan's last - season five. At that point, I still expected SOMETHING of the books to be included, if not a direct adaptation. They did it wonderfully with seasons two and three, giving enough to keep it interesting and new for book readers. Four was ... eh. But fourth book is one of my least favorites, but Marnie was a better villain on the show with much clearer and more sympathetic motives for whammying Eric.
ReplyDeleteWhen Bryan Singer left House mid season 3, David Shore not only lost the person who held his ideas in check, he promoted Katie Jacobs who pushed for House to be in a relationship with Cuddy, the final nail in the show's coffin.
ReplyDeleteEither Brad Kern (Charmed) or the musical showrunners on Brothers & Sisters. Tough choice.
ReplyDeleteCarver from the list. I can't even watch Supernatural anymore. Gamble was bad. Carver was massive destruction.
ReplyDeleteOther goes to Emily Andras on Lost Girl with her logic has no place in plot and her fan pandering.
It turned to shit when Alan Ball was still around. This is the same guy who's favorite scene of season 4 was Jason getting raped. The guy got bored with his own show on season 4 and took it downhill with his ADHD storytelling. Buckner just made sure it stayed in that direction.
ReplyDeleteScott Buck for sure. The biggest quality gap in TV is found in Dexter. Dexter's best seasons are like the Nolan Batman movies, while the worst are like the Schumacher Batman movies, which are the ones Buck made. I'm surprised he was responsible for season 7, which was actually solid for awhile. But season 6 and 8 may be the worst seasons of TV I've ever watched.
ReplyDeleteBrian Buckner gets an honorable mention as well, because he sucked. However, I don't think he really did much creative damage, but the show was already damaged when he took over. I'm so sick of people acting like the show was always great when Alan Ball helmed, but he is the one who destroyed it with his ADHD storytelling. Season 5 was as panned as this last season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y6mhsP_BZI
ReplyDelete2:43-3:02
Sera for sure... Jeremy hasn't done much better since mind you, but Sera's reign was the begging of the end which he inherited and just kept on crapping over it...
ReplyDeleteI'm still hoping Eric will slowly step back in this year and gradually regain control and possibly put things back on track, somehow...
Gamble was messy as fuck, but things were actually happening and it was at least exciting. Carver just feels like he's stagnated on a swamp trying to capture the feeling of the glory days by rehashing plots and beating to death the same themes without any evolution nor change.
ReplyDeleteAmy left ashes at her wake, but he did absolutely NOTHING to sweep the soot. Instead he just burned the place down all over again. That was baaaad...
ReplyDeleteI kinda dislike Carver over Gamble; at least the plots of season 6 and 7 were interesting; season's 8 and 9 are trying so hard to cap on old themes, like a reunion album with no real original material, only recycled songs.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that, even though deeply flawed, I liked the ambition of season two. Season 3 was just so bland and soapy in that light that It just kinda lost me right from the bat.
ReplyDeleteSera for sure, this story of leviathans, I was watching my favorite show in black goo sinking like quicksand. Detergent,RIDICULOUS!
ReplyDeleteThis may be the toughest poll ever!
ReplyDeleteSera takes it but only just
Thanks for sharing that definitely explains a lot :( !
ReplyDeleteWow, i'm glad someone else feels the same way. I'd like to hear Kripke's opinion on what the amazing show has turned into...
ReplyDeleteThank you for putting into words how I've felt about supernatural since it all went down hill. I miss deans necklace, and them calling each other 'jerk and 'bi*ch', and Deans rock and roll fetish, and countless other things, but most of all, I miss the brothers relationship. From the beginning Kripke said that the core of the show was about the brothers and how the would literally do anything for each other. And now Sam is saying they can't be brothers if they are going to be hunting partners and that he would let Dean die. WHAT?!?!? That is like saying that Sam and Dean don't hunt monsters. It is what the show is about. When someone asks you to describe supernatural what do you say? You say "Two brothers that hunt monsters". I just watched and old interview for Eric Kripke ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhXpWYDgGwk ) that someone needs to show Carver immediately.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Supernatural ended with season 5 and the rest has been glorified fan-fiction.
ReplyDeleteStephanie Savage
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that at least 90% of the supernatural fandom is right there with you.
ReplyDelete'I really miss Kripke...'
ReplyDeleteI cant even tell you how many times I have thought the same thing.
I partly agree with what you said. I think you're right about Kevin Williamson but him and Julie Plec worked together at this point! And I think the show was always big on mythology AND character drama at the beginning, at least!
ReplyDeleteHere's the thing actually, I never said it was just season 5 (which was the worst!) and I agree, Julie Plec sort of gave up on season-long arcs. But I don't think she did it entirely. I mean yes there were messy game changers and plot-twists in both season 3 and 4 (which was when the show started to go downhill for me!). However both seasons dealt with fighting and killing the Originals and then searching for the Cure. Mythology was still there! Not saying it was always done right and that there weren't plotholes, but still it was still a huge part of the story.
That being said some character's characterization started to get a little messy. Elena started to get annoying by season 3 but I understood they had to make her hesitate like that because there needed to be a change in the romantic department, etc... Season 4 was kinda worse for her but I still liked the fact they gave her a bit of an edge and they had her become more selfish in the search for the cure. Those things were never adressed though and I felt like it was a huge misstep, because it ruined any potential Elena had. How do you make your heroine become a serial killer and not having her to take responsilibity for her actions? That just didn't work out for me but I digress.
Season 5 could have redeemed both seasons by giving up on the love triangle and focusing more on those characters' individual journeys. It didn't and I'm not sure it's entirely on Plec ;)!
I always told people that SPN was about a FAMILY that just happened to hunt monsters. That family bond was what made the show for me. Loved Baby, the classic rock but most of all the brother love. Carver killed that his first ep when Sam "ran, hit dog, met girl" and DID NOT LOOK FOR DEAN :(
ReplyDeleteIt only took the first ep for me to know Carver was trashing my show.
ReplyDeleteI'm not too big a fan of what happened in the last seasons of True Blood but I gotta admit I don't really know who's responsible for that. I only know it's not Alan Ball's fault...
ReplyDeleteI'm still very happy with Supernatural though I understand why some people would be upset, there were some pretty huge changes.
Exactly. Also the reason why TVD became awful it's because after Kevin Williamson left Plec got total control over the show.
ReplyDeleteFrom the ones I watch:
ReplyDelete- Glenn did a great job with The Walking Dead. I loved Season 4 but Season 3 is still my favorite for the strong first half. I would probably rank them like this: Season 3A>Season4A> Season 4B> Season 3B> Season 2> Season 1. I think Gimple is still very competent though and both are big improvements over the original showrunner
- I will not judge Jennifer for The Following since we never got to see her work, I don't think she should be on this poll
- Melissa Loy? I had never heard of her but from what I've read from the comments below she was a co-showrunner during the first couple of seasons? I don't know. For me Revenge would be something like Season 1>Season 3A>Season 2>Season 3B. I liked both Mike Keyley and Sunil Nayar. I think the change was positive for the show though, even if I did like Season 2 for the most part and never got the hate.
- I am one of the few who actually was ok with the Dexter finale so I don't have a problem with that specific episode. However, even if I did like the final season and the themes it brought, I thought it lacked a certain "finality" feel that I like to see on my shows when they are doing announced season finales. Not sure if the showrunner is to blame though. He had both one of my favorite ever seasons of Dexter (Season 7) and one of the worst ones (Season 6). So I am not sure where that leaves him. I would rank Dexter something like Season 4>Season 2>Season 7...Season 5>Season 8>Season 1... Season 3....................Season 6, though the classifications within each tier are kind of interchangable. So I don't really have a pattern as far as showrunner goes.
- Now, True Blood. I don't think it was the new showrunner that ruined the show. I actually thought Season 6 was the best season in years (BY FAR) and I thought Season 7 had some decent episodes and was no worse than Seasons 5 and 4 with Ball. I hated the season finale, strongly (and this comes from someone who loved Lost and How I Met Your Mother finales and liked Dexter's finale, so I am not one to hate easily), but I am not sure if it would have been any better with Ball. I would probably rank something like: Season 3>Seasons 1,2,6>Seasons 4,5,7. I would rank 7 a bit higher than 4 and 5 if not for the finale (4 and 5 I have huge problems with due to the number of disconnected storylines within)
Season 3 is my favorite though is mostly for 3A, I had some issues with 3B and I really hated that they did the obvious move of killing Andrea instead of working their way into integrating her again with the group and continued to explore her character, she had too many relationships to dwell into. To me, killing of Andrea is still the show's biggest flaw.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Season 2 of Revenge was nearly as bad as some people make it out to be and I still prefer it to Season 3B for instance (excluding the last two episodes) which I didn't think was all that strong (especially compared with the insane 3A). Season 2 had some powerful stuff like the episodes surrounding Amanda's death and the amazing two hour season finale.
ReplyDeleteThis being said, I do think the change was very positive for Revenge because I don't think Mike had the vision necessary to keep Revenge going 22 episodes a year. He was doing a lot of stuff in the show that didn't feel like having consequences (the main one being the introduction of Em's mother).
Season 6 was one of the worst seasons of any of my favorite shows, it was mind shocking how they turned it into such a bad thing. However, Season 7 was one of my favorite seasons of the show's entire run and I also didn't think Season 8 was bad.
ReplyDeleteI liked S2 as a whole as well, people go really strongly about it, but episodes like "Sacrifice", "Masquerade" and "Truth" are truly outstanding. Its problem was that sometimes it was all over the place.
ReplyDeleteSeason 3 showed a very positive change of direction since it managed to become more focused and use that to its advantage. I loved S 3A, but I disagree with you over 3B (which for me is among the best parts of Revenge with the exception of the episode 3x15 "Struggle"), I think that after the wedding everything that happened was more intense because every single Greyson was on cautious mode against Emily and she was in danger of being found out.
Sunil Nayar has proved to have a vision of how to make a show that can change and adapt as it goes on, and that's exactly what it is needed in order to make a 22 episodes season, so the change- as you said- is very positive. Besides, people are now pretty happy with the quality of the show as of right now and it is generiting a lot of buzz, so that can only mean good things for the show.
I had forgotten about Masquerade, I loved that episode.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with 3B for me was that even though I loved the Emily related stuff it had too much filler going. I didn't care for Pascal or Margaux and all the drama between them and I certainly didn't care for Jack's mother stuff especially because it was obvious they were going to write her away in a very short amount of episodes like they eventually did and then act like she never showed up.
I do agree about Sunil though!
By very very very very far, The West Wing. The first three seasons were some of the best television has ever seen (don't believe me, go watch Two Cathedrals). And then from S4 onwards... meh. And it got to the point of being an actual disaster, with the way the decided to finish the show.
ReplyDeleteSera Gamble didn't TOTALLY ruin supernatural, but the story has gotten much better since she was dropped as exec producer
ReplyDeleteDefinitely agree with this! I actually started to drift away a little over halfway into season three, though. But one and two were amazing television from start to finish. Have no idea what happened to anything or anyone after season three.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Sorkin left, everything went bananas.
ReplyDeleteWith you on True Blood. The showrunners had a lot of garbage to clean up after the abysmal season five. By season seven, they were mostly focused on tying up the H vamps and setting up the endings for the principle characters. And I'm one of the few who understood why Bill wanted to die. Just thought it unfair of him to ask Sookie to be a part of it, esp. as she felt terrible guilt for infecting him in the first place.
ReplyDeleteKripke has a contract to develop two more shows for NBC, I believe. I'm pretty sure I saw that somewhere, esp. once Revolution was 100% cancelled and gone. I don't see him coming back to SPN in any capacity.
ReplyDeleteThe comic book version of Andrea never being allowed to make it onto screen was TWD's biggest flaw, IMHO. They had a great gal cast, I thought, "Wow, this should be cool to see Laurie bring bad-ass sharpshootin' Andrea to life!" And I thought they were gonna head in that direction in early season two, but then nothing came of her picking up a gun and having a natural talent with it. Then there was the season of Woodbury further messing with her character ... I supported the actress until the end of the season, but it was getting difficult to keep supporting the character by the finale, with the way she was written.
ReplyDeleteDexter !
ReplyDeleteAgreed! Jeremy Carver has been the WORST thing to ever happen to Supernatural. I haven't purchased Seasons 8 or 9, and I doubt S10 will be any good either. He has been a destructive force on this show.
ReplyDeleteYup. Season 8, Episode 1.
ReplyDeleteSam doesn't look for Dean?!?!! Sam?!?!! WHAT?!?!!?
You missed nothing.
ReplyDeleteI'm still not sure I'm even gonna try this season. I may've reached my limit of no f**ks to give where SPN is concerned.
ReplyDeleteJeremy Carver wins my vote. When a soulless Sam has a better bond w/Dean than JC's version of Sam in S8, you know there is a problem!
ReplyDeletePeople can say what they want about Sera, but she didn't unnecessarily trash the brotherhood for no reason. She didn't repeatedly throw Sam under a bus as JC has done for the past two seasons and will continue to do next season ("The audience will be wondering whose the real monster: Sam or a demon?"). She didn't violate canon and just change the backgrounds of major characters (Tessa, Dean (Bad Boys)) or species (reapers are suddenly angels).
I could re-watch S6 any time. I didn't care much for S7 but it was better than 8 or 9. I barely made it through Seasons 8 and 9 of Supernatural. I don't even own the DVDs for S8 or S9.
JC has been a complete and utter disappointment. At least I enjoyed most of S6. I'm one of the few who liked Soulless!Sam. I can't say the same about anything from S8 or S9. Out of both seasons and a total of 46 episodes, there are literally only FOUR episodes I would gladly rewatch. That's sad.
I'm wondering what your 4 are. There are more than 4 that I "will" watch if I have someone else that wants to watch an episode. But in 2 years, off the top of my head, I can only think of 3 episodes that I would watch with little urging.
ReplyDelete1) Everybody Hates Hitler (I think I can actually say I love this episode), 2) Sacrifice (Really enjoy the Sam/Crowley parts, most of the rest is fine), 3) The Purge (Not great, but enjoyable)
Honorable mentions go to the following, I've only watched them once but I don't believe there were any parts that I really didn't like.
1) As Time Goes By, 2) Remember the Titans
Most of Season 8 seemed to have very little with the brothers getting along in it. The entire season just seemed way off to me. After all of that stuff that went on between them, then there is a quick speech about "I may have said some things that set you back on your heels... but...." No. No buts.
Carver just doesn't get the brothers. Until As Time Goes By and Everybody Hates Hitler, I didn't even like Supernatural that year... not even a little. Hunter Heroici felt a little more like Supernatural then any of the previous episodes... but I was so put off by the season that I couldn't "really" like anything until Everybody Hates Hitler. I guess by then I let go of my "but this isn't Supernatural" complaints and just started accepting the show as a similar show with Jared and Jensen in it...
I thought the Sam/Crowley interaction in Sacrifice was incredible and I absolutely loved the final bit with the Angels falling... but erasing all of that potential and replacing it with angels slaughtering each other and nearly leaving Sam out of the story until he found out about Gadreel... those things really turned me off early on in Season 9. Again I was feeling like it was a show that I couldn't even watch.
There were lots of isolated scenes that gave me a hint of the Supernatural I knew, but there was always another burst of slaughter and angel stuff or cutting away from the part of the story that I was partially interested in that I just couldn't enjoy any of Season 9. I didn't even have that great finale that I had in Season 8. The only episode I even half liked from Season 9 was due to an entertaining cop, Dean being a bit of a comedian (I like light hearted episodes) and Sam looking good.
Unlike many people I loved to hate Metatron and never got tired of him until the very end of the finale, but I still barely made it through Season 9 and I hope never to see an episode from early Season 8 ever again.
I loved Soulless Sam, Jared was awesome in that role. I also loved Feral Dean in season 8, but that is the only good thing I can say about it. I don't use the word HATE often, but I hated what they did to Sam, he was one of my favorite characters, a member of my family and I came to the point of not liking him. Even the last ep of season 8 when he was having his pity party I was screaming at the TV "ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAT WORDS..SAM." Season 9 was better but I am having a hard time getting the taste of that first ep of 8 out of my brain. Ran, hit beautiful Aussie, met awful girl and forgot about Dean & Kevin. WHAT???
ReplyDeletelol, Yes the only way I am still watching SPN is by thinking of it as a NEW series that just happens to have my favorite brothers in it.
ReplyDeleteYay! Another Soulless!Sam fan. I loved that guy and thought Jared did a great job w/it.
ReplyDeleteI was disappointed in S5 though I loved SS. I was not expecting much from S6 so I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed it. I didn't know what was wrong w/Sam, and that was interesting to me. I like the Campbells though they were horribly wasted. I didn't care for Lisa/Ben, but L/B were better than Amelia. I just didn't hate S6. I enjoyed S6 quite a bit. Of all the post-Kripke seasons, S6 ranks at the top for me. My ranking post-Kripke from best to worst would be: 6, 7, 8, 9. Now, the second half of S6 wasn't as strong or good as the first half, but it was still more entertaining than anything Carver has done.
S7 is a mixed bag. I thought the first two episodes were awesome, and HCW might be one of my favorite Supernatural episodes. I'm not sure what went wrong, but Sam's really interesting - at least to me - hellucination story was dropped for a "Dean is depressed" arc. That never made sense, and the Leviathans turned out to be a horrible, horrible, horrible enemy/threat. It was just bad.
That said, I'd rather re-watch S7 than S8 or S9.
Hahaha! Your two "honorable mentions" and your #1 are among the four episodes I would re-watch.
ReplyDeleteSo, my four would be: ATGB, EHH, T&E, and RTT. There are actually five episodes I would rewatch b/c I forgot about the one where Ezekiel was expelled from Sam. I thought that was a solid, good episode from start to finish. Don't remember the title though. Haha! Sadly, I can't remember titles lately, and I can barely remember what happened in an episode when I used to know them back and forth.
I couldn't agree more w/you about S8 not really starting - for me at least - until ATGB. Prior to that episode, I felt completely disconnected to a show I had loved for 7 years. I even forgot it was airing a few times as I watched other things. Sam felt so "off" to me in early S8. I absolutely hated that OOC nonsense about Sam not looking for Dean. I liked Benny, but the Benny drama btw Sam and Dean was contrived and completely OOC for Sam. Sam is the FIRST one to embrace a supernatural creature so why the inexplicable hatred for Benny?!?! The Amelia drama and FBs were utterly pointless. What was the point of Sam's time w/Amelia?!?!? Carver acted like Amelia was Sam's first chance at normal when Sam had normal with JESSICA!!!! Am I supposed to believe that Sam's whacked relationship w/the horrible Amelia rivaled his relationship w/Jessica?!?!!?! I don't! That is a joke!
I feel like the show got new juice or returned to itself w/ATGB. I often wonder if that was actually a good episode or if I was so excited to see something that recognized the Supernatural of old that I overlooked its flaws. But for me, the season didn't start until that episode, and I thought it was going to be great from that point forward but I still had problems w/other episodes in the second half. The episode w/the familiar . . . . and I honestly can't remember any other episode from S8. I remember Sam taking an ice bath and coughing up blood in a church but I don't remember what those episodes were about. Anyway . . . .
I enjoyed the "broment" in Sacrifice, but I wouldn't watch the entire episode again. They kept interrupting the broment w/some angel nonsense I didn't care about. I like Castiel but I have found all the angel storylines horrifically boring. My attention drifts every time angels are on my screen fighting about something.
I no longer watch for entire episodes b/c those are so unsatisfying. I watch for moments and the occasional "broment," which is very rare under Carver. In some episode this season, Sam and Dean discuss Sam falling off a bike or something . . . that was a nice "broment." I liked Cas and Ezekiel's interactions in the finale. They were good and acted well off each other. Sadly, they killed off Zeke. I liked Dean's line about being proud and the scene of Sam in the dark drinking. I liked a lot of the Zeke/Dean interaction early in the season. The one time Sam expressed concern about himself was a good moment. Umm . . . those are the only moments that immediately come to mind that I enjoyed.
It's weird though b/c I didn't hate the season premiere. I thought it was good. The episode where they Zeke came out and showed his wings was okay, but something just seems missing from the show.
I wish I had some optimism about the next season but I don't. My expectactions are very low.
LOL :-)
ReplyDeleteI hear ya. I guess I still want to see how the Sam/Dean adventure ends.
I was just remarking that I didn't hate a lot of the episodes this year, but many of them were just "meh" to me. Something is off - for me - w/the show. The desire to see the season again is just not there for me, which is why I haven't purchased Seasons 8 or 9.
Boo!
ReplyDelete