Congratulations to Felicity Smoak, Donna Paulsen, Elijah Mikaelson, and Raymond Reddington for making it into round 2 of the Character Cup. None of them had a hard time, which only means that things will get tougher in the next round. The only surprise for me yesterday was how many votes Homeland's Carrie Matheson got. I figured Reddington would be like Felicity and garner over 80% of the vote. Today's polls have me a little leery of my bracket again as I expect one to be fairly close. The others not so much. Again the real competition will come in rounds 2 and 3. Thanks to everyone who made yesterday's discussion the best yet. If you have a topic for TV Talk, please let me know so I don't run out before the contest does. As always, play nice and happy voting!
Polls close - Thursday around 4 pm CST
Prediction contest results - Janna continues her red hot streak of 100% correct so far, while Emma also got all the polls right today. Nice job!
TV Talk topic - Since we spent yesterday talking about the villains, now it's time for the heroes. Who are your favorite TV heroes, past and current? What makes a good hero to you? What aspects of a hero's journey are the most interesting? Are there any hero tropes you are tired of? Which do you find more compelling - heroes or villains? Do you prefer action heroes or ones that win with their brains?
My TV Talk Opinion - Heroes
ReplyDeleteNo lie, heroes are usually the blandest part of a show for me. It's a large part of why I love secondary characters often more than the main one. It's the snarky sidekick that I fall for time and again and sometimes I feel like I put up with the hero just to get my sidekick time. That being said, one of my favorite TV heroes is in the contest today - Dean Winchester. Early Dean exemplifies the best of a TV hero for me, before he ended up wading in an ocean of angst in seasons 4 and 5. Foremost a TV hero has to have a snarky attitude and not take everything too seriously. If the hero is not fun, then I'll look for entertainment in other characters. I like competent heroes as well and ones I can root for, but they need to be able to make mistakes as well. If I have trouble discerning the hero from the villain, the story is in trouble for me but they need not be too overly good either. Those characters are one-dimensional and bore me. For example the overearnestness of Alice and Cyrus on Wonderland about drove me to drink, but man did I love Will. I like characters with a clear mission and generally feel it's best if they accomplish it within one season and then move on to something else. The hero trope I am most sick of is the Boy King model, where the hero is the most super special thing on the planet and no one can ever be as special as he is. The rest of the characters worship at the King's feet, constantly reminding them of how important they are and how everything will be lost without them. I actively root against these characters. Not since Harry Potter has any Chosen One done much for me. I also hate the Lone Hero, where the rest of the characters are basically just there to be rescued. No matter how smart or talented the others are, it always falls to the Lone Hero to do the saving and no one can ever save them back. I need my heroes to have their own Scooby Gang, each with their own specialties that help the group as a whole save the day. Teamwork really is better.
Thanks again to everyone for playing nice and creating some great TV discussion. It's been a lot of fun talking with you all. Today's choices are again very easy for me. I hope it is for you too.
ReplyDelete1. Annie - not only do I think she's a kick butt female in the first two seasons (I'm behind) but I also really don't like Hannibal. He's going to win big time but my voting love goes to Walker.
2. May - I like Sarah, although I waver on my favorite clone, but Melinda May kicks everyone's butt. She's a warrior and a mystery, making her one of my favorite female characters currently on TV. Plus the fact that the actress is over 50 and still has these moves makes me speechless.
3. Maura Isles - I actually like Jane better than Maura and Korsak better than both, but I don't watch The Walking Dead and I really despised him in the first season, which is all I watched.
4. Dean Winchester - Since he is my favorite character in this contest, he definitely gets my vote. I have dropped Supernatural but I still have a big soft spot for the Winchester brothers and the pre-Jeremy Carver canon that family is the cornerstone of life. Seasons 1-3 Dean is probably my favorite character of all time. His snark, determination to save the world and his family, love of the classics (cars and music), loyalty, ability to handle a gun, smarts (when they let him use them), and overall outlook on life sucked me in by the third episode and claimed my own loyalty. I'm not sure if I'll ever become as engrossed in a character as him but it's been an amazing ride.
Just Daryl for me.
ReplyDeleteHannibal, Sarah and Daryl.
ReplyDeleteHannibal
ReplyDeleteMads Mikkelsen plays Hannibal to perfection. Some of the best acting I've seen.
Sarah Manning
Just a great character and that fact that she has several clones all played by the same actress makes it even more impressive.
Daryl Dixon
My favourite TWD character by far.
Mary, Queen of Scots
Had to go with her as I fell out of love for Supernatural
I voted for characters from the psychological thrillers: Hannibal and Sarah Manning!
ReplyDeleteActually the clones is what made me not vote for Sarah because many times I liked the other clones better. It's a catch 24 I think. I predict this race will be closer than the others, but Sarah will win especially since people are so ticked that the actress was not nominated for an Emmy.
ReplyDelete1) Hannibal - One of my favorite characters out of all the shows i watch , Mads Mikkelson does a wonderful job portraying him truly brilliant acting. I cant believe he didn't get a Emmy nomination.
ReplyDelete3) Daryl Dixon
Hannibal, Daryl and... Mary. Ok, I don't like her that much but at least she hasn't been in hell, heaven, purgatory, crematory etc.
ReplyDeleteHannibal Lecter, Melinda May, Daryl Dixon, and Dean Winchester.
ReplyDeleteSarah Manning,
ReplyDeleteDarryl and my dear queen Mary
Annie Walker, Melinda may, Maura Isles that it
ReplyDeleteVery easy choices today as well.
ReplyDelete1. Hannibal - I mean as if Annie Walker could even compare to such a complex character as Hannibal.
2. Sarah Manning - Even though i probably like AoS more than Orphan Black, Tatiana's acting skills have made Sarah a much more compelling character than May.
3. Daryl Dixon - I haven't watched Rizzoli and Isles since the first season and i didn't really like it then so there is no comparison for me in this round.. Daryl is a badass character.
4. Dean Winchester - Quite simply Mary is very boring compared to a Winchester..
Just two votes for me here today:
ReplyDelete1) N/A
2) Melinda May - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (I love both the actress and the character in this case and I don't watch Orphan Black so it was an easy pick)
3) N/A
4) Dean Winchester - Supernatural (While I don't watch Supernatural anymore Dean was always my favourite character. I used to watch Reign too but I prefer Dean over Mary.
Today's TV Topic: Tbh I usually prefer the villains to the heroes. I much prefer heroes that use their brains and not just explosions and cool stunts. I also like it when there is more than one hero, it gives each hero a chance to be something other than the hero once in a while, plus each person could contribute in different ways so it's not repeated over and over again (I felt this was a huge problem on Arrow). Also, and this is huge thumbs up from me if its there, I love it more than I should when a hero sacrifices, even more so when they sacrifice and nobody ever knows they did, they just hold on to it until they eventually breakdown. When there's real emotion to the character and they don't just go around like "yes it's me I know i'm cool look at me". I'm a bigger fan of anti-heroes too, there's just usually more depth to them and they are more unpredictable. If I had to pick heroes from TV that I liked the most there really aren't that many, most of them would be teams like Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis and Teen Wolf or anti-heroes like Stargate Universe, Penny Dreadful and The 100. All those shows had each person contributing differently to any situation.
I'm also a sucker for any heroes named John & Dorian who have the best car conversations and the most adorable bromance...but that's just me :)
Hmm...
ReplyDelete1. Annie (I don't watch Hannibal)
2. Sarah (I do like Melinda, but she's not even my favorite character from AoS, so...)
3. No vote (don't know them)
4. Dean! (always)
Where is Sam?
ReplyDeleteOff topic - Are you still interested in doing the Buffy Roundtable on Sunday? Are you available anytime between 1-6 pm CST?
ReplyDeleteI'd really like to but the timing just doesn't work for me. Also, somehow Sunday ends up being the busiest day of my week, so sadly I won't be able to do it. Maybe next time. I hope.
ReplyDeleteThanks anyway.
ReplyDeleteSarah Manning is the only one for me today.
ReplyDeleteMary, but against Dean, she stands no chance in this poll. To many SPN and Dean fans at this site.
ReplyDeleteHannibal.
ReplyDeleteHannibal and Sarah Manning for me
ReplyDeleteOnly one character per show can be in this contest. Dean got more votes than Sam and Cas.
ReplyDeleteI am kind of wavering in redemption stories in the vein of OUaT right now. I get why people like them, but they are becoming far too prevalent for my taste. Sometimes I just want the bad guy to stay a bad guy. On the other hand, Sam's redemption storyline in season 5 of Supernatural was one fo the best things about the whole season and allowed for a great character arc. Then again, chipping Spike on Buffy was one of the worst decisions that show ever did and they gave us Dawn. I guess in all things it depends on how the show handles it and where they go with the character.
ReplyDeleteEmmy woe is all over the place these days. I have given up on them because it's rare when a show I watch is even nominated.
ReplyDeleteCrematory? Bwah!!!! Love it.
ReplyDeleteI voted for Melinda May and Mary, Queen of Scots.
ReplyDeleteI find heroes that can strategize are my favorite. Instead of running in half cocked, they sit down, marshal their resources, and come up with a plan. Even if the plan goes south, they still get bonus points for trying. I also agree that teams of heroes work far better. It allows the story more breathing room and keeps it from getting stale. I wish that Arrow would allow Diggle to take point more often. He knows how to handle himself and he's obviously learned a thing or two about planning from the military. Right now he's jsut wasted in the Arrow Cave crossing his arms and frowning. I'm more iffy about sacrificing though. Sometimes it can really create character growth but more often it ends up in a morass of emoangsting that drags on forever. (Looking at you, Supernatural.) SPN did the family hero things extra well though and I too am a sucker for the bromance heroes. Ah, those car conversations on Almost Human were awesome. Miss them.
ReplyDeletePlacing my vote for Dean, of course. He's simply the best. Loyal, devoted, smart, brave... I could go on and on. He's got a beautiful heart too and a childlike quality about him sometimes. The total package. The fact that he looks like Jensen Ackles is just icing on the cake.
ReplyDeleteFrom the outset of this contest, I made it clear that only one character from a show would be included. This makes it so more fandoms can participate and as such makes it more fun. We've had contests that ended up being mostly about just a handful of shows and others get frustrated and tune out. I want to keep the most number of people enjoying the contest for the longest amount of time. The character chosen to represent a show is the one that got the most nominations in the nomination phase. As it is, Dean got 4 times the nominations as Sam. It is nothing personal, just mathematical. Hopefully Sam will be the character with the most nominations next year.
ReplyDeleteHannibal, May, Daryl, and Dean.
ReplyDeleteTechnically Dean got more votes than Sam and Cas put together and doubled. :-P
ReplyDeleteMary was tied for last place going into the rankings polls so she had no chance against anyone she would have gone up against. Reign is a new show and many people have not seen it yet. She will have a better chance next year, provided her character continues to be loved in the second season.
ReplyDeleteI think I like Dean's loyalty the best and of course the brother bond.
ReplyDeleteHannibal, May, Nothing and Dean for me :)
ReplyDeleteI love heroes and sidekicks both but usually with heroes in the lead (an exception would be Monroe on Grimm. I love Nick, but Monroe makes that show). It depends on the personality. I don't mind Chosen One stories if the character is likable. I really love unlikely heroes though.
ReplyDeleteDean is definitely my favorite TV hero too. Hard to choose second favorite or beyond out of the hero/antihero list I have. Maybe one of my angels :P Castiel or Michael (yeah I know Cas isn't considered a main character) or maybe Reese on POI - Reese is badass and also love Nikita and her team. Of course Sam Winchester would be up there too. I have so many shows it's hard to pick. Hmmm I think Reese takes second now I think about it. The others are right behind. Coulson and May are up there too. And Ichabod.
On a side not: I don't usually love villains unless it's a very large love to hate situation.
Today was the most difficult so far but still pretty easy when it came down to the actual decisions:
ReplyDelete1. Hannibal - this was one of my easiest picks in the entire first round. As much as I like Covert Affairs, Hannibal is such a complex character that I didn't even pause to think about it when I voted for him.
2. Melinda May - I haven't seen Orphan Black so easy choice (even if I do intend to check it out afer everything I have heard about it) but even if she was up against someone from a show I do watch, I would give her serious consideration. She doesn't need anyone to "save" her - she is smart and can kick some serious ass if the need arises, but most of all, I love her loyalty to her team. She's a bad ass with a heart.
3. Daryl - I've only seen the first season of TWD (maybe a couple others here and there) and I love Rizzoli and Isles but I couldn't bring myself to vote for Maura because she is my least favorite character on the show. There are times I've had to shut off the episode and come back to it when I'm in a different frame of mind because she has annoyed me so much. As for TWD - Daryl is one of the few characters I like - the wife and kid are the reason I stopped watching!
4. Dean - ya, it's Dean. No brainer for me here. I have been a Dean girl since the first episode. While the writing has gone downhill the last couple seasons, I am cautiously optimistic about DD in S10. I hope Carver gives JA some decent material to work with (as well as Mark Shepherd's Crowley as I presume they will be spending some quality time together!).
Today's Topic: If I looked at each of the shows I like and honestly assess both the hero and the villain, the hero would probably be my favorite more often than not. However, there are some villains that transcend their role of adversary and while they may not completely overshadow the hero, they are on equal footing for me - Moriarty and Sherlock are the first to come to mind. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching sh*t blow up as much as the next person but watching the hero and the villain duke it out mentally is far more fascinating to me. I find the journey for both the villain and the hero equally as fascinating as what they do once they reach "hero" and "villain" status - this is where I think I favor the villain more often than the hero. Bad sh*t happens to everyone but what makes that specific person go dark side while the other becomes the hero? Love to watch that unfold - unless it's the "you killed my gf/bf/wife" trope. While the loss of a loved one, especially in a traumatic way like murder can be a strong motivator, I'd really like to see some new ideas from writers - this one has been used so much that it feels like a cop-out now.
Topic suggestion - one of my pet peeves is recasting a character with a different actor...would you prefer to have the character exit the show and a new character brought in or am I the only one that annoys?
I usually really dislike people being recast too. It's a rare situation where I won't mind it and it's usually minor characters. Even more rare if I like the new actor in the same role.
ReplyDeleteIt's much easier to handle if it's going from a movie to a TV show (cause I know they can't get movie stars to do shows often).
If it happens during the TV show or is a movie for the TV show it is jarring. I say "you're not the same person; you're not my ___." ha
I prefer the bad guys to stay bad myself, if they originally were bad (from the start of the show). I watch OUAT and have come to accept that they don't want any true villains on the show it seems. At least not in the main regular cast.
ReplyDeleteHaha Yes! I love John and Dorian. I miss that car bantering. :(
ReplyDeleteI'm convinced bromances make the world go round. lol Kidding. Sort of. ha Seriously, I love guy friendships on TV. Just something about it.
ReplyDeleteIt's usually all the shows that bore me. lol
ReplyDeleteLecter and May
ReplyDeleteCount me in with the spy love. Basically anything that leans toward action is in my wheelhouse. I totally agree on Monroe making Grimm. He's a great example of a secondary character that I find more interesting than the lead. I also definitely agree aout a combination of brains and brawn being the ideal for a hero. I didn't even thinks about the Unlikely Hero when I posted, but I tend to like them as well, provided they can snark. That really is an essential item for me. I guess for me it is more essential to be able to root for them than to sympathize with them.
ReplyDeleteReese and of course Sam are great examples of heroes as well. I like how Reese was at the beginning a Reluctant Hero, which when played well instead of whiny, is one of my favorites. His transformation as a character was great fun to watch. Even still, I think I would place Finch slightly ahead of him in my hero list, which for me is unusual. I guess I really, really like Finch's backstory. As for Burn Notice, Fiona is my favorite and she is abotu as anti-hero as I get. What I adore though is how all 4 of main characters worked so well as a team and each brought soemthing of their own to the team. They or Leverage are probably my best example of using team to be a hero. I don't think someone has to be a main character to be the hero either. I would bet that the majority of SPN consider Cas a hero unless Jeremy Carver made some major changes.
As for May and Ichabod, they are making their way up my character ladder. Another season and they will be in my top tiers as well. Icahbod especially has the humor I adore, while May has the butt kicking. It's refreshing to come out of a TV season with new characters that fascinate me instead of whom I tolerate.
Youa re a better person than me. I tend to lean towards justice instead of sympathy when it comes to characters. Maybe it is a OUaT thing though because at teh end I was coming around to the Red Queen being a good guy in Wonderland. I still miss her snarky, witchy self though once she zoomed the ladder of redemption.
ReplyDeleteMe too, to be honest. Simialr to the Oscars, I tend the Emmys have a bias towards fun and entertainment which are the only shows I have time for.
ReplyDeleteOur TV talk in two days is going to revolve around family on TV so I'll bore you all with my massive brother story love then. Just let me say that brother stories or brother-sister stories tend to be my favorite on TV. Even if they aren't blood related.
ReplyDeleteOh I'm all for justice but some shows really know how to get me to come around. It took a time for me to be remotely sympathetic to Regina on OUAT. When first starting to watch the show, I could have never predicted it. I loved to hate her.
ReplyDeleteI adore the fact that May IS the muscle . It's great to have females who can save themselves as you said. I also love how even when Coulson was doubting her, she still was fighting for him. In some ways, she's my female Dean Winchester. Fierce, loyal, and willing to go the extra mile for family and friends.
ReplyDeleteI actually like when the villain and hero are on equal footing as far as character development, interest, and skill are concerned. I think one show that built the villain up as well as the hero (at least up until I quit watching it) was Smallville. Lex didn't start out evil and it was the little choices he made along the way that built him into a fascinating character. He was allowed as much time as Clark to become the person he did. Most shows don't have that luxury but I think that's why the best villains for me have a personal tie to the hero. It gives us a longer time to get to know them. I agree that loss of a loved one turning someone evil is pretty much cliche now It's a shortcut that shortchanges the audience. I would rather see a character get in over their head and then decide they are good at crime or something like that. Similar to the way that a mob can cause people to do things they never would have dreamed of.
Thanks for the new TV topic. I really appreciate it. I'm going to expand it to new characters in general and use it in 3 days. If you think of anymore, please keep them coming.
I actually had a problem with Hillary on Trophy Wife being switched after the pilot. Eventually it lessened, but I think if you are going to spend that much time and money on a product, you should just reshoot a character's scenes in thepilto to give it flow.
ReplyDeleteThat's interesting because right from the start I could empathize with Regina and I HATED Emma. What right did she have to push her way into Regina's life and play Henry against his mother like that? She made me so angry I could not watch the show after awhile.
ReplyDeleteYeah, haven't seen that show, but it's not a great idea to have an actor for just one episode, the Pilot, then switch.
ReplyDelete"Family don't end with blood." :)
ReplyDeleteOh Bobby, how I miss him. That's one of my favorite TV quotes of all time.
ReplyDeleteI didn't like Emma doing that but at the same time I was thinking, "She's evil, get Henry to safety!" ha I did not trust her. Couldn't get past her making the curse.
ReplyDeleteJust not my type of show.
ReplyDeleteI completely understand that. To be honest, if I didn't decide to check out as many new pilots as possible last year, I never would have watched it.
ReplyDeleteIt was a really great quote and really rang true. I have a friend I consider like family. I have a cousin I consider like a sister. People have adopted relatives. Family really isn't limited to blood. It can be anyone you're close to.
ReplyDeleteIn all honesty it probably had to do with bad timing in my personal life as much as anything. My brother had been ready to adopt a child and his wife and he had already bonded with him when at the last possible moment the birth mother changed her mind. Everything about Emma's intrusion was like a stab wound.
ReplyDeleteEee, that sucks. I think people need to think more before putting kids up for adoption. Some people rush into it then later they regret it and make a mess of everything.
ReplyDeleteWhen the child's with a loving family and they've bonded with them, they shouldn't have to give that child back to the bio mom.
It was a hard time for my family and has colored my perspective about things, including of all things OUaT. Silly but unavoidable.
ReplyDeleteI find the study of created families to be fascinating and how they are expressed on TV even more so . I had a friend who didn't have a great home life so she created her own system of mothers. She would call several people mom, including mine, and grew to be quite close to many of them. I see family as a basic need for all people and if you don't have one close or if you aren't close to the ones you have, the tendency is to make your own. I came from a strong family that started in a rocky situation so it was always intriguing to see how other families worked or didn't work. When I started writing that theme appealed to me most, so I often seek it out when I approach TV.
ReplyDeleteDean Winchester of course! Between Sarah Manning and Melinda May it was difficult... I was getting confused between my love for Tatiana Maslany and the actual character. May is absolutely kick ass but also did some questionable things this season. Overall voted Sarah because I really like her relationships with the other clones and her daughter and her trying to do the right thing when everything is going to hell.
ReplyDeleteI expect the Sarah vs. May contest to be quite close throughout. In fact, it will probably be the first time I cannot set up the next round's article in advance because I won't know the winner. I understand how difficult it is to separate the character from the actor, especially since Maslany plays soooo many of them.
ReplyDeleteSarah Manning, because Tatiana Maslany is brilliant! I do however, really like Melinda May too, so it was quite a tough one.
ReplyDeleteI agree! I love the brother bond too. I'm not impressed with how the Carver administration has dealt with it but it's the reason I feel in love with the show and it's the thing that will always bring me back (I quit watching after the season 8 spoilers).
ReplyDeleteAtta boy!
ReplyDeleteHannibal, Sarah Manning (and all the other clones) and Daryl, who is the best part of TWD.
ReplyDeleteAnnie Walker (don't watch Hannibal so unfamiliar)
ReplyDeleteSarah Manning
Maura Isles
Dean Winchester
My vote went to Annie Walker and Sarah Manning,they both kick ass! Covert Affairs might not have the bells and whistles that some other shows have but i love it and all the characters in it. Annie's character has grown over the years and even stumbled backwards along the way. She's smart,learns quickly is faithful to herself,her friends,co workers and country. Annie is a spy with heart,doesn't go into assignments blindly (99% of the time) and when something doesn't go according to plan,she still tries to make it right,even if its to the detriment of herself. They also have their share of good recurring characters but one great character that comes to mind is Oded Fehr as Eyal Lavin. They work so well together,have great chemistry and their scenes are just fantastic! Oh hell,i'm going on and on,lol! Anyways...
ReplyDeleteSarah Manning. What can i possibly say about Tatiana that hasn't been already said? She is just awesome,period!
Mads is great in this role he just isn't a hero in my opinion,and once again i don't watch the other shows..
I got kind of mentally side tracked by the mention of Chosen One stories. For me, they're a different kind of story and aren't suited for your typical series. They work for me because they are usually about the protagonist being a very flawed multi dimensional character that has to grow and change in order to become the mission the Chosen One is destined to fulfill. That's why they work best in features. In TV series the big mistake is that the shows that choose to take this approach design the show to be about the thing the Chosen One is chosen for and not about the journey the character has to take in order to be ready to fulfill his duty. Generally this means that they rush to get the character to find out they're chosen and they accept by the end of the pilot and that cuts off a lot of the interesting bits. The struggles, the mistakes, the desire to run away from it all. Yes, they can still play with these elements over the course of a series, but how much more interesting the journey to become the hero is than trying to be a good hero.
ReplyDeleteIt's a teeny bit similar to a genre I came to loathe and am happy that we're not seeing these types of series anymore. The term I coined for it is "One-Armed Man Syndrome" This was the series when they would set up this really good back story (In the Fugitive, man is accused of murdering his wife and must escape and go on a quest to find the killer.), but each episode becomes about something completely different. Usually, Hero comes to town and helps someone in need then moving on.
In a discussion about heroes Grimm is an interesting show for me. Monroe is definitely the character that got me to hand around and get hooked because by the end of the pilot I was done. I kept asking how David Giuntoli got the part. I thought he was either a bad actor or a stage actor not up to the film transition. By mid-season it occurred to me that they'd done what I was rambling about above in my discussion about Chosen One stories. They had us watch Nick move through the process of accepting and growing into the job he was chosen for. I realized one day that the character's energy had appeared. I'd watched Nick grow from a kind of boring normal guy to a hero with his own Scooby gang. :-)
ReplyDeleteOnly the utterly awesome Melinda May for me.
ReplyDeleteAgain one of the rare times that it's two characters that I know and they're against each other. As much as I've been enjoying orphan black (I'm only five episodes in), I really love may on shield so my vote went to her
ReplyDeleteOnly other vote today was dean from supernatural who I will always love, even despite this seasons crappy character writing
Orphan Black is the only one of these I watch, so Sarah Manning gets my vote :)
ReplyDeleteJust Melinda May this time.
ReplyDelete1. Hannibal
ReplyDelete2. Sarah Manning- Hard one, i love Melinda May, and Helena is my favorite clone.
3. Daryl
4. Dean
The Henry adoption episode, was what made me sympathetic to Regina. My favorite episode of the series.
ReplyDeleteGood point about them often rushing the Chosen One type stories. That's why I like how it was done on Dominion. The character Alex doesn't really start to take steps to accept it until episode 4.
ReplyDeleteBad Robot writers tend to want mythos, but networks constantly try to push the procedural route: During another interview before season 4 of Alias, Greg Grunberg had mentioned that season four would be less "Rambaldi" (fringe science) due to the network insisting that it's viewers did not like season 3--and so it was not till the end of season 4 and season 5 where Rambaldi stuff came more back into play. LOST was originally pitched as bunch of non interrelated stories. Recantly the original pitch given by Abrams to ABC execs has been released online!
ReplyDeleteI think that is very true about OUAT, but that is exactly why I like it. It's that philosophy that we can't keep holding onto the past and retaliate with the exact same injustices done onto us back onto others, (this is also the point of Dany on GOT too-fighting injustice with mercy or fighting injustice with justice--she labels and doesn't consider that life, including slavery, isn't black an white either--there is something to be said about lively hood, culture, and economics in relation to this subject), because often change takes tim (a long time-radical change often fails) and because killing others back often does not resolve the issue, as there will always be "others", but instead the idea here is also spiritual, where maybe the best any of us can be is when we believe that we can change by being able to forgive and that this one lifetime is not the end of anything, but spiritual progress in a metaphysical process...One of the things I liked was that they let Snow be the one to kill Cora and to make snow Realize that her mother was not an angel---it allowed for the viewers how easy it is to be deluded in multiple ways, and that any one can fall pray to hatred, because even hatred can be born out of loss and love via fear of what we do not know or understand about the nature of reality....
ReplyDeleteI like your take on Chosen One stories. I agree part of the problem is that they almost always start us in the middle of the story and usually expect us to be interested in the character immediately because of his or her status. They do rush things. I think though that the larger problem is that the hero that is chosen is more often than not the most bland character on the show. They almost always have to be the most morally upright and best all around guy and good friend and fantastic boyfriend, etc. Then they get saddled with the hero role on top. Then they typically hem and haw as they slooowly make their way around to letting everyone else in on the secret, which tends to only be good TV when they are actually telling someone, not when they're debating. Plus it tends to be that Chosen One characters have to be the savior instead of the saved. That usually kills the key teamwork aspect for me.
ReplyDeleteAh The Fugitive, that was a show my dad and I watched together when it came on in repeats I think on Saturdays. I have less of a problem with its format than you because to me it was a procedural story with an overarching serial storyline. That's a good portion of what I watch now. What I didn't like was the catch and release feel after marathoning the show, where the same near misses happened over and over again.
See for me, Nick is pretty much still the boring nice guy. His experiences haven't seemed to fundamentally change him and have only superficially changed his relationships with the core group. In the end Hank is still his partner that always has his back and Juliette is still the long-suffering girlfriend. I thought we were going to get some profound character development after ZombieNick, but that pretty much got swept away after a couple of episodes. If the story was only about Nick, I would have dropped the show ages ago. Grimm is definitely a show I watch for the secondary characters. My biggest hope is that Teen Grimm will continue to shake things up again.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite clone also wavers, generally every other episode. I think that's a great thing because it means that they are all interesting in their own right.
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for posting the interview. I have book marked it to read at the end of the week when I have a little more time. I appreciate it.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I missed that. I haven't kept up with SPN since I dropped the show last year.
ReplyDeleteI unfortunately watched season 8 and was pretty much done after Taxi Driver. Never has a showrunner so completely destroyed an established show.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to be the poll giving people the most trouble today. I think whenever you have two fantastic female parts going against each other it is hard, especially since good female parts are still somewhat rare these days.
ReplyDeleteSwitch Sarah with May and we voted the same even if two of them don't have a chance.
ReplyDeleteI love people going on and on about TV. Feel free to keep going as long as you'd like. I have only seen the first 2 seasons of Covert Affairs but I likes Annie more than I usually do most wide-eyed heroes. She was smart and most importantly, she wasn't instantly excellent at the job. That makes me roll my eyes because some things you have to experience in order to become accomplished at them.
ReplyDeleteI only watched a few eps for The Fugitive. It wasn't until....um the early 90s when they began to come up with increasingly interesting set ups...(secret organizations, etc - can't remember any specific titles now) and then most of the hour was about something else. Add to that the fact that eps focusing on the overarching story were too few and far between for my taste so I stopped watching the format. Can't watch most ghost stories anymore either (features) I figured out the format. [scary stuff, mystery, scary fight] never any real jeopardy or scary stuff during the mystery phase. :-)
ReplyDeleteI'm one season behindon Orphan Black but I thoroughly enjoyed the first season. It's such an intriguing concept with so many ways they can go. As for SPN, the characters are the cream that have risen to the top of the ludicrous and canon exploding vision of Carver, may he live in Purgatory.
ReplyDeleteMotherhood is one of my favorite thing about Sarah too. It gives her extra depth.
ReplyDeleteExcept for the movie, the only Fugitive I know was from the 60's so I never watched a more recent one. Can't say that I watch many ghost stories. I did in the 80's but that's about it.
ReplyDeleteI extend the bromance to best friendships across the board. It might be a little more special with the bromance because it's so easy to write a best friendship between women because its more common for women connect as friends. (The kind of stuff that Sam would take the time to try and pull out of Dean. Which was something I really loved about the character. He loved his big brother enough to try ) For me, it's the bromance and the bromance that involves male and female characters. (Someone help me out with a word for that ? ) that make the world go round.
ReplyDeleteSadly, these friendships are, too frequently, spoiled because so many fans want to morph that friendship into a romance. I feel like I'm watching that right now with Felicity and Oliver on Arrow. It is a great friendship partially because Felicity is so different from him that he's never dropped into the 'I gotta tap that' phase and skipping over that phase allowed him to *be* a friend. Turning that into a romance is doing to ruin one of those characters because, as defined right now, that's the only way a romance can work. IMHO.
Yup, I was referring to the 60s version of the Fugitive. It was the first show I watched with that format. It wasn't until the 90s when I began to grow frustrated with the format tnat I decided to "name" it. I named it after the show I felt made the format a TV staple.
ReplyDelete"If the story was only about Nick, I would have dropped the show ages ago."
ReplyDeleteThis is why I think Grimm fits that paradigm of 'perfect hero that requires supporting characters to provide the character depth'. Nick being drawn as a perfect hero is why I was so upset with his decision to stand by and watch Wu hurt without doing anything. Nick's the hero. The hero doesn't do that kind of thing without cause...and they skipped showing us the cause.
There are two questions I would love to have asked of the show runners of various shows. (1) For Grimm. Why did hey drop the ZombieNick fallout. They hinted at a personal struggle for Nick that could have been EXTREMELY interesting. Then they dropped it. Why? I want to know why! :-D (2) For Teen Wolf: Did they know, when they started, what a gem they had with the parents. Not the performers but the characters. In this genre it is so rare to see parents who have a good relationship with their kids and actually parent. I'd like to know if this was just a happy discovery on the writers part or an intentional part of the design of the show. (The drinking scene between Stiles and his dad is IMHO the second best scene of the series. The MRI scene being the first.)
Sorry. Had to mention those two questions in case anyone here had the opportunity ot pose them to the showrunners and wanted to hear the answer as well. :-D Shoot gotta finish getting ready for work. Blew away a half hour rambling about TV. :-D
Hannibal, Sarah & Mary today.
ReplyDeleteCheers for running this Dahne :)
The Wu thing made me so mad. In fact, it still does today. I was this close to dropping Grimm when Teen Grimm came along and singlehandedly saved the show for me. If you ever get any answers to your questions, let me know. The Teen Wolf parents are a huge reason why I love the show so much. They were completely unexpected as was the most popular girl in school being a certified genius. I love how Teen Wolf breaks down the stereotypes you expect them to have,e specially being that they are on MTV. I don't think there are better parents on TV today given their importance to the story and the depth in which we grow to care for them. I will say that while I loved scenes with Stiles and Sheriff, my favorites are always going to be 1. Stiles keeps Scott from blowing himself in Motel California. 2. The MRI scene. It's hard to think of anything being better than those two.
ReplyDeleteI get it now. Thanks for clarifying.
ReplyDeleteYay, it looks like Hannibal and Daryl will make it into the next round. Hopefully 10 more people will vote for Sarah, so that she will make it aswell. :-)
ReplyDeleteWhy was my comment removed?!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI want to know the reason! Unles the words "just","this" and "time" are considered cursing words these days!!!
ReplyDeleteI agree so many people shipping friendships.
ReplyDeleteYeah I verified my account the day I created it. It is likely a glitch as you said but I just wanted to make sure.
ReplyDeleteSure! No problem!
ReplyDeleteHmm, I don't know then. Hopefully it won't happen again.
ReplyDeleteNever seen Smallville - had a co-worker that was obsessed about it and it turned me off to the show (she was really bad - I don't think I ever had a conversation with her that it wasn't brought up in some way!). Given what you said about character development, I may have to add it to my Netflix list.
ReplyDeleteHmmmm, I will brainstorm and see if I can turn any more of my pet peeves into discussion topics ;-)
Ahhh, I see...maybe I'll add it to the bottom of the Netflix list then ;-)
ReplyDeleteWhoohooo - I'm loving these daily topics! After seeing several episodes of Teen Wolf now, I agree - that show needs both Scott and Stiles. Not only do they balance each other out the tone of the entire show too.
ReplyDeleteScott and Stiles are my new Dean and Sam, in that both relationships form the cornerstone of the entire series. The whole series would be off if either one went. I'm glad you are progressing with Teen Wolf. It can be uneven but it got better every season.
ReplyDeleteall my comments are being removed, what is going on????
ReplyDeleteI have no idea. Go to the help section on the menu bar and click on e-mail us or just e-mail darkufo@spoilertv.com. That gets us Andy, the owner of the sight. Let him know what is happening. This happened to my friend a couple of years back and her disqus account got flagged because soemthing was attaching spam to her account. Andy was able to get it cleared up pretty quickly.
ReplyDeleteThey were removed because they were about a show in another show's section and the one in here was disqus's falut. Thank you so much for caring and helping me.
ReplyDelete