Congratulations to Archangel Michael, Bellamy Blake, Temperance Brennan, and Stiles for moving on to round 2. Overall things were closer in round 1B than in the first round with winners taking between 56-59% of the vote. I expect the polls today to be more of a runaway given that some very popular characters on SpoilerTV are competing. As always, you have ~24 hours to vote and the winners proceed to round 2. I really appreciate every who participates and especially those who are commenting. It's great fun to see why people choose the characters they do. So until tomorrow, keep commenting and happy voting!
Polls end - Wednesday around 4 pm CST
Prediction contest results - Janna continues with the only perfect score so far. Way to go Janna! It Depends What Fails also got everything right in yesterday's polls. Woo hoo!
Today's TV topic - Thanks Katerina22 for inspiring today's TV talk which is all about villains. Who are your favorite villains - current and of all time? What does it take to make a villain great? Is it brute force, special powers, a keen mind, or something else? Do you prefer villains who are pure evil or do you like them to be more ambivalent? Are crazy villains the best or do you prefer them to have a plausible motivation? Do you like shows that have a Big Bad throguhout the series, ones that last one season long, or do you prefer things more procedural with a bad guy each episode?
Today is super easy for me today since I only watch two of these shows and neither go against each other. I'm giving it to season 1 Felicity although I was not impressed by what they did to the character in what I saw of season 2. Reddington also gets my vote, considering he is one of the strongest characters in the whole contest. I love how ambiguous he is and how I'm never quite sure how he is going to act but he remains in character anyway.
ReplyDeleteTV Topic:
For me a good villain is actually more important than a good hero, because a hero is only as compelling as the villains he/she faces. I like smart villains who aren’t necessarily sympathetic and have a personal connection to the hero. Straight up crazy gets boring pretty quickly (looking at you Count Vertigo on Arrow), over the top moustache twirlers are irksome (Looking at you Malcolm Merlyn), and if the only motivation is world domination, that gets old too. The best villains have clear cut motivations and force the hero to become something greater and smarter in order to defeat them. That being said, it is a delicate balance between making a villain capable and making them unstoppable. If something else always has to save the hero in order to take down the villain, then it is too much. (Looking at you Supernatural with the constant angel saves.) Team work is a plus; plot device is not. I also don't like when the villain is omniscient or unbelievable. (Looking at you The Following with your completely inept Feds and Crisis with your always one-step-ahead kidnapper.) Mostly I am a fan of having the Big Bad defeated at the end of the season with a new Big Bad to follow, a la the Buffy structure, because villains can also outlive their welcome. It's hard to create a truly great villain, but when they are they are oft times more memorable than the hero.
Felicity, Donna, Elijah, and Red Reddington. Easy pickin' today.
ReplyDeleteFelicity, Red, and Florrick
ReplyDeleteNot much for me to say about the polls for me today (other than 3 of my 4 picks from the previous poll got through!). The only one I voted for here was Felicity Smoak. While I don't watch Arrow anymore Felicity was the one character I always loved to see.
ReplyDeleteThe only other show up there I used to watch is The Originals, I dont watch that anymore either, if it was Rebekah up there I would have voted for her, but not for Elijah, he's just one of those characters I never had any opinion on.
Today's TV Topic: I prefer a villain that lasts a season and is replaced, but I do like the new villain to be revealed at the end of the season and not the start of the next one. I prefer smart villains as well, with connections to another character and with motives outside the usual. If a villain is evil just for the sake of being evil then im out :P My favourite villains have to be those on Once Upon a Time, I also love that OUAT's villains sometimes turn into kind of anti-heroes or full on 'good guys'. The villains in OUAT fit into every category I listed above as well. Also, the actors playing the villains are supurb! (Lana Parilla, Robert Carlyle, Barbara Hershey, Robbie Kay & Rebecca Mader)
Another show that has had decent villains from the start but have improved a lot over the seasons imo is Teen Wolf, but for different reasons to OUAT's villains. I like the creatures in Teen Wolf, theres been Alphas, kanimas, dark druids, evil fox spirits and now assassins. Most of them had unique stories as well, the hunters have their code, Gerard wanted to be cured of cancer, Duecalion wanted power, and Jennifer wanted revenge. Another thing about Teen Wolf is that the main character, Scott, is like the angel werewolf in the way he would never hurt anyone unless protecting someone else, but since he's a werewolf he may hurt someone against his will, which doesn't make him a villain but capable of doing things a villain would do. The same goes for most creatures in the show that fall under the 'good guy' category.
I tend to not like the main character of any show in comparison to the secondary characters, especially if that character is supposed to be a hero. I also largely prefer action and plot over character, so for me the villain is the key to a good story. I agree that it is easy for either side (hero or villain) to go the way of stock characters and in some way I agree with what you are saying. A villain can always be replaced but the hero kind of has to stay whether they suck or not. Still no hero is compelling to me unless who they are struggling against is equally strong as a character. Obviously it is best if all characters are well developed and have a good storyline throughout, but a painful to watch or silly villain brings down the entire show.
ReplyDeleteSorry there is nothing for you to root for here. Out of them all, I would suggest The Blacklist. It can get painfully slow with the mytharc, so marathon it if you can. However the overall story and the characters are fascinating and James Spader is awesome to watch.
ReplyDeleteFiona, Alicia and Carrie.
ReplyDeleteAlso check out the first Episode of Homeland. If you don't like it then you've not wasted too much time, but you might just love it. I loved the first season.
ReplyDeleteI voted for Felicity, Donna, Alicia and Red. I don't watch Homeland so that kept this round from being "Women Who Rule the World."
ReplyDeleteI can't say anything about Felicity that hasn't already been said. She's just lovable, smart, plucky and will always be a favorite character.
The character of Donna is well loved but I just don't think Suits gets the attention it deserves. The weakest character on this show is Rachel and she's still a feisty, kickass law student. Donna is just a funny Alicia Florrick without the law degree. She is a brilliant typhoon in heels.
Alicia just has a spine of steel and cool running through her veins. A kickass lawyer and mom who doesn't forget how to be a woman while being Queen. She is amazing.
The best thing about these three women are they are the strongest, badass women that I watch and they do it in high heels without breaking a sweat or chipping a nail. They aren't the tough physical fighters. They beat you with their minds.
I chose Red because I don't watch Homeland but I so watch James Spader bring this character to life and he is amazing. Brilliant.
"Still no hero is compelling to me unless who they are struggling against is equally strong as a character."
ReplyDeleteFor me that's not a necessity because it's the other struggles for a character (family, relationships, personal demons, etc.) that make him/her a lot more interesting than some person who's out to get him. Like you said, villains can be replaced. So, for me, it's all the other aspects of the lead characters life that hold much more interest for me.
Rebecca and Elijah were actually tied in the original (no pun intended) nomination level and had to go to a tie breaker. I have only seen a couple episodes of The Originals but I can see the merits in both.
ReplyDeleteI think the seasonal villain gives them enough time to make an impression but not so much time that you dread seeing them, usually. Plus then you can have that villain tied to different characters in the series, giving everyone a chance to have a main storyline. I have a real problem with over-the-top villains too because if they have no motivation then they really have no story. They are just there to drive the plot and chew up scenery. I like when my bad guys become full-fledged characters within the story even if they do not last very long.
For me, season 3A is a great example. If the main villains are Gerard, Deucalion, Blake, Kali, and Ennis, they easily sort into levels for me. Ennis we never got enough information about so he was a secondary villain, easily disposable to move the plot. Gerard was straight up evil for no reason at all. He killed his own people, blinded Deucalion, and generally acted like a thug. There wasno motivation that we were given and it only made me want him dead. Without a powerful back story, he was a giant waste of my time and I resent that he is still alive. Kali for most of the season suffered from a lack of back story as well and only in the last minutes of her life did I feel like I knew enough to care about her. Plus it was jsut squicky having her walk around barefoot all the time like that. Blech!
That leads to Deucalion and Darach (Blake for those who don't watch) and it is here where we will most disagree. For me Deucalion was one of those buckets of crazy villains who are so over the top (Demon Wolf speech for an example) that he got old fast. Sure Visonary gave him a compelling backstory but that only works if it drives his personality now. Instead it made him crazy and crazy is boring to watch for me. Yeah I felt sorry for him much in the way that I would feel sorry for a rabid dog, but that's not going to make me want to save it. Once you get to that point, crazy is as crazy does. Surprisingly, I felt differently about Blake even though she was definitely crazy as well. I think it is because I honestly felt like once she killed off Deucalion, she would stop the violence and go away. Whereas with Deucalion, he was jsut killing to be killing at that point. Blake became a serial killer to accomplish her mission, which don't get me wrong, is still nuts. Deucalion became a serial killer because it was fun and gave him power. For me that is the difference between a villain I can get behind and want to see more of and one I spend the whole time wishing they would die.
There is something to be said about smart women that can take you down by out-thinking you. They are right there with kick butt women for me. I actually gave up Suits because I hated Mike and Harvey, but I always thought Donna was spunky and the savior of every scene she was in. I hope she gets some love here.
ReplyDeleteI think we see it differently because we approach TV differently. A lot of the other struggles you enjoy tend to be the things that slow down a story for me and inevitably irk me. I need a character to have good relationships in the show but for me the plot should drive the characters more than the characters drive the plot, so if a relationship gets in the way of the overall story it goes into my fast forward pile.
ReplyDeleteYesterdays polls were so close , really didn't know that Archangel Michael had so many fans. I was also surprised that Bellamy manged to beat Ben since their are so many LOST fans and the 100 is a new show. I suppose you can never tell who is going to win.
ReplyDeleteAs for today's polls my votes go to:
1) Felicity - The best female on Arrow by far , I love the way she has developed as a character from season 1 to 2 she is becoming a really strong character in Arrow.
2) Dont Watch suits so cant comment. I have seen Glee way back in season 1 and really hated the Rachel character , how she thought she was the best at everything and believed she was the only one that mattered (God she was annoying). So neither get my vote today.
3) Cant comment about either as i haven't seen a single episode of either show , although i do hear good things about The Good Wife.
4) I watched Homeland Season 1 which i thought was really good , but then season 2 really lost me and i decided to stop watching it (mainly because of Brodys whole family especially the wife i found them very irritating) and i just lost interest in the show altogether as the story line just bored me.
I only saw the first two episodes of the Blacklist , but couldn't really get into it enough for me to continuing watch past them , it just seemed so slow paced. I did however like the Red character from what i saw so he gets my vote , maybe i might binge watch it all this summer.
Votes today: Felicity and Raymond Reddington
I think your approach to TV works better for me with films. A lot of the stuff that drags a serialized drama down for you seems to enrich it for me.
ReplyDeleteI am glad the polls were much closer yesterday because I think it adds a little suspense that all contests need. I suspect today will be more of the blowout variety with at least 3 characters getting over 70% of the vote. Of course, my bracket was completely blown yesterday so what do I know. From what I saw of season 2, I liked Sarah the best as a character in Arrow although season 1 was a tie between Felicity and Thea, once they stopped making Thea a spoiled child. As for Glee, I only watched season 1 but Rachel and Kurt were my least favorite characters. I think they were actually the same character in a lot of respects and equally annoying. If you watch The Good Wife let me know. It's somewhere in the middle of my to-watch pile, but I don't think it is my kind of show so I keep burying it. As for The Blacklist, it is slow, painfully slow sometimes. What I found was when I was watching it live, I got frustrated and started to hate it. Then I marathoned it over the winter hiatus and loved it again. It's definitely a marathon show for me because that hides some of its worst flaws, namely pacing.
ReplyDeleteToday just Raymond Reddington.
ReplyDeleteThe Blacklist is a great show, and since the moment Red appeared, I liked him. He is so... unpredictable. You really don't know what his next movement will be, that's why I like his character. (Also because James Spider is amaziiiiiiiing!). Sorry Carrie, you are amazing too. It was a hard choice to do.
I'm loving this competition so far!
Only Red for me today. A great, funny character that
ReplyDeletesinglehandedly makes The Blacklist watchable.
THE GOOD WIFE *---* seriously, it's amazing. It's like Scandal, but with better writing :D
ReplyDeleteAnd they have the best guest stars on TV, no kidding. It's almost ridiculous.
I think Homeland S1 also deserves a shot out, and Arrow (but that one just in case you have no issues with super heroes, stunt doubles and stuff blowing up). Nothing against the other shows, but these are my favorites from this list.
My predictions got completely messed in the first section as i missed out the jack/Nikita poll and put Buffy their instead and put the others one place up as well. So really my predictions start from the second section from character 13 , but i would have been wrong anyway as i had Ben going through a couple of rounds.
ReplyDeleteThe good wife is also on my watch list ,but their are so many shows i want to check out im not sure if i will get round to it especially since the new fall shows are coming in a few months. Im currently watching greys anatomy over the summer (on S3E17) and im loving it at the moment. As The Blacklist is only one season i will probably marathon it like you said as i did that with The Following as that had some slow paced episodes in season 1 and you really tend forget about the slow paced episodes especially if the one after is action packed.
Easy choices today, mostly cause I don't know a few shows.
ReplyDelete1. Felicity
2. Donna
3. Elijah (I'm really glad he's representing TO, btw, not Klaus)
4. Red
1. Felicity, Arrow- I don't watch Reckless.
ReplyDelete2. No vote- I don't watch either show.
3. No vote- I don't watch The Good Wife, and i dropped The Originals 6 episodes in.
4. Red, The Blacklist- But i really like crazy Carrie.
I voted for Felicity and Elijah. I've never watched either of the shows in the other polls.
ReplyDeleteIt's alright but it goes by so................slowly..... especially any scenes involving Dana. "Dad? Dad? Dad? Dad? Dad? Dad?" Cannot wait until I get caught up and she's scarcely seen in season 4.
ReplyDeleteFelicity and Mr Raymond Reddington. Not difficult. Red is awesome and Carrie is irritating.
ReplyDeleteFelicity and Elijah. I've always liked Elijah the best out of the Originals. Felicity I like. She's not my favorite on Arrow, but she's a pretty good character.
ReplyDeleteFiona (i know that she wont win but still) and Reddington
ReplyDeleteFiona got a sucky draw. Sorry. Maybe next year. At least it should spur some interest in watching Shameless since a lot of people seem to not know who she is.
ReplyDeleteSame with me. I love when that happens. It gets much harder when the characters I know run against each other.
ReplyDeleteJust Red for me in this round!
ReplyDeleteI was surprised as well. Michael continues to dominate and that may be the most surprising of all.
ReplyDeleteFelicity and Red :)
ReplyDeleteThinking about it, everything above only applies to hour long shows. Comedies are quite the opposite. It's those in which the relationships matter more than the story for me, largely because the story is too short and usually inconsequential. Above all in comedy I look for a combination of laughs and heart and the heart comes from the relationships.
ReplyDeleteI think it depends on what the series is actually about and what type of show it is (super hero, action comedy, crime/buddy-cop, psychological thriller, family saga ect). I think I'm most found of anti-heroes in either a protagonist or antagonist. There's something about being "grey" that I really like in terms of long term serialized dramas. I like seeing flaws and reasons/explorations for moral corruption!
ReplyDeleteI think you're right in the sense that sometimes a great smart villain with a deep connection to the protagonist can make the series, but I also think Bruce makes good points in that there can be other aspects that can make a protagonist good (with characters like Sydney Bristow, John Kennex, DRN, or Sookie Stackhouse I think it's their personality along with multiple dynamics with other characters, who are sometimes friends, love interest, family members, partners and not necessarily point blank antagonists...)
I had Ben until he met up with Patrick Jane, so my bracket is useless until then. I can see marathoning The Following as well. I simply dropped it because I was so frustrated with the stupid Feds, but I bet it would be less irritating if I didn't have one week to ruminate on it between episodes.
ReplyDeleteGlad you're enjoying it. I am too. I love Red's unpredictability as well but especially because after he reacts, it is still plasuible for the character. He's not wacky but very controlled and everything he does has a reason.
ReplyDeleteI cannot imagine anyone else playing Red but Spader and that's about the highest compliment I can give. He makes the show.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like a good number of people haven't seen the shows in the middle two polls. It's kind of surprising since everyone was nominated in. I don't watch any of them either.
ReplyDeleteWho is your favorite character on Arrow? I'm curious.
ReplyDeleteFinally could vote in each poll today and luckily no characters I know were against each other.
ReplyDeleteFelicity, Donna, red and Elijah (the only character left that I actually like in the originals)
Oliver and John.
ReplyDeleteI did try The Originals, i couldn't get into it. For me, most of what i watch is sci-fi, horror, fantasy, spy/ conspiracy thrillers, serial killers, and mob dramas. So if it doesn't fit in those, it's unlikely i watch it. I have a few exceptions: Rectify, Dallas, Banshee, Tyrant, and Fargo are the only ones i can think of.
ReplyDeleteGlad you were able to vote. I left 2 blank.
ReplyDeleteIs that because Rebekah left The Originals or did you not like her either?
Ian didn't get any nominations unless he's also called Mickey or Lip. Mickey got 2 and Lip 1. Other than that only Fiona got in.
ReplyDeleteEasy...Felicity of course that was easy and she is winning, for the second Rachel and booo she is loosing, Elijah and GO RED!
ReplyDeleteI completely understand. I watched 2 episodes of The Originals but I only saw season one of the Vampire Diaries so I was lsot and it did not appeal to me. I watched season 1 of Glee and found that as long as everyone was singing and dancing, I liked it. The second the music stopped it was way too high school for me. Suits I tried but did not like any of the characters except Donna and I don't think The Good Wife is for me either. I liek the same kind of shows as you apparently, except there aren't many mob dramas I like. I am watchign Gang Related right now though. I haven't tried Rectify or Banshee but the others I disliked.
ReplyDeleteOut of the trio, I like Diggle best but he always seems to be shafted in both screen time and plot importance.
ReplyDeletei didn't love her but she was better than the rest of them. elijah was always my favourite, even on the vampire diaries
ReplyDeleteI remember when they were talking spin-off how people were upset that Elijah was going but I don't remember people being upset about anyone else, especially Klaus.
ReplyDeleteI am not fond of antiheroes and I like my bad guys to be bad, but I do think they need a plausible explanation for why they are the way they are. I wasnt them to have a motivation I can understand, preferably not one that has been done a thousand times like thirst for power as well. I'm glad you brought up Almost Human because in my opinion a lack of a strong villain was a problem right from the start. I think they were going in the right direction when they brought in Dr. Nigel, but they introduced him too late. He met all the criteria of a great villain - smart, personal connection to Dorian, interesting motive and backstory.
ReplyDeleteEven though I watch Arrow I couldn't vote for Felicity, because I don't like that character :D so I didn't vote in any poll this time :(
ReplyDeleteSorry you couldn't find anything tovote for. Hopefully tomorrow will be better. Otiginally I was going to vote for Felicity, but in the end they ruined her character so much for me in season 2 that I decided to hold back. It's not like she'll need my help to move on anyway.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts exactly ! Felicity was great in the 1st season but her character evolution has made her worse and worse !
ReplyDeleteEasy day: Felicity, Donna, Elijah and Reddington.
ReplyDeleteFelicity cuz she's a "bitch with wifi" (one of my favorite lines of the entire 2013-2014 TV season). That episode finally brought Felicity back to where she was in S1 - smart and sassy. I hope to see more of that in S3 (even if it sounds like the writers are going to give Olicity a shot this season).
And Reddington...I love the character and the actor who brings the character to life. I can't imagine anyone other than James Spader as Reddington. I am so excited for S2 - hopefully the DVD's come out at least a month before the new season premiers so I can binge watch them again - I'm sure there are details that I missed the first time thru or forgot about over the course of the season!
Today's Topic: my favorite villain from the last few years of TV is Andrew Scott's Moriarty on BBC's Sherlock. What makes him so fantastic is that he is so smart yet utterly insane - I love that's he's actually a worthy adversary to Sherlock and there were several points in the S2 finale that I wondered if Sherlock could really beat him. Other notable villains I have a love/hate relationship with are: Hannibal Lector, Ben Linus, The Master (DW) , Crowley (SPN) and Q (ST:TNG).
Just Elijah.
ReplyDeleteCrowley is one of my favorite long term "villains" of all. Part of it is my celebrity crush on Mark Sheppard of course, but I love a villain that gives great snark and Crowley is the best at that. No idea what they are doing to him now on SPN but he was fantastic in seasons 5-7.
ReplyDeleteQuestion - What is DW? The only Master I know was on Buffy and the only thing I can think of right now for DW is Designing Women, of which Julia is the only master I would agree with. :-) Sorry. It's late and my brain is not functioning well.
PS - I never understood why DVDs of shows come out so close to their return. I know it's a marketing thing but it makes more sense to me for them to come out 4 weeks ahead and give people time to watch them and amp up excitement before the show returns.
It was her devolution that started my issues with Arrow season 2. Then they turned it into a nighttime soap with no internal cohesiveness or logic and I just couldn't.
ReplyDeleteFeliciry and Red.
ReplyDeleteFelicity, Donna, Elijah..and it was a tough one between Carrie and Reddington, went with Carrie though!
ReplyDeleteI agree and disagree. There's an old quote, I've mostly heard it quoted by actors, that the best villain doesn't think he's the villain. Hero's tend to be boring by virtue of the fact that they're "heroes." Heroes always make the right choice. They never set out to beat the villain so bad they can't get up any more (or kill them.) The hero never shoots their gun unless the bad guy is going to shoot first. They make the sacrifice. Because of all of this they tend to be one dimensional.
ReplyDeleteBecause of this they are boring. As a viewer I always know what choice the hero is going to make. It'll be the right choice. This is why they've usually got a sidekick or a team surrounding them. These are the characters that get the layers. From what I understand it was stepping away from the perfect hero that made Spiderman such a hit, when it first appeared, that it breathed life into Marvel. He was the first superhero to not be perfect.
I think this is why Arrow is such an interesting show for me. Oliver Queen hit the canvas flawed and anything but a hero. This makes him a show lead that is interesting on his own. His sidekicks aren't there to add the layers of humanity to the show they're there to help Oliver find his humanity and his inner hero.
I wandered away from my 'villains don't think they're villains' thought. I like having my villains give me moments where I think...maybe that character isn't the bad guy. That brief moment where I sympathize because his reasons/motivations make so much sense.
I want my villains to be, at a minimum, as smart as the hero. I hate shows and movies where the villain always wins, but neither do I want things to be too easy for the hero. I don't want the hero to have to vamp or suffer lapses of stupid for the story to move forward because there's no challenge in the story. ( I call that lazy writing.) One of the things I loved about Prison Break (first season especially) was that Bellick was't an idiot. He was competent at his job so it wasn't a slam dunk that Michael's plan of the ep was going to go smoothly. He was an equal challenge for Michael and it was FUN.
Ah. Almost Human. There's maybe 4 or 5 shows that have been the type of disappointment Almost Human was. They were all shows that had such potential but didn't start showing signs of reaching that potential until too many eps in. For Almost Human I think the basic problem was that they thought they could be lazy about story design. They put all their energy into look and feel to mask an unimaginative cop show under it. In the 70s and 80s you could walk your way to finding the heart of your show, but now you can't. You don't have a guaranteed 13 eps with which to earn a back 9 order. You don't swim fast...you get sunk.
ReplyDeleteTV Topic deserves to be a some type of regular feature. (maybe monthly?) This is a freaking interesting and fun discussion.
Felicity, Elijah and Carrie
ReplyDeleteOnly Elijah for me today. I like Felicity but I'm sick of her character being so insanely overrated, so I'm not voting for her in polls these days (although she really doesn't need my vote anyway - look at her poor rival being steamrollered). I did watch the first 2 seasons of Homeland, but I started liking Carrie less and less in the 2nd season when her love for a murderous terrorist was supposed to be some kind of epic romance and make me symapthetic to her.
ReplyDeleteIt's great that there are physically kick-ass women on TV, but I do hope we get more brainy women who can hold their own in other ways, like the ones you mentioned. I think a lot of shows (and their fans) wrongly subscribe to the notion that a "strong woman" has to be a fighter, when there are plenty of other ways to write competent, capable and powerful female characters. Case in point, Felicity's sudden insecurities in Arrow 2x14 (hate! That episode) because she can't kick ass like Sara. It didn't make any sense because Team Arrow would be just as screwed without Felicity's hacking abilities as it would without Oliver's fighting skills.
ReplyDeleteIt's great that there are physically kick-ass women on TV, but I do hope we get more brainy women who can hold their own in other ways on TV, like the ones you mentioned. I think a lot of shows (and their fans) wrongly subscribe to the notion that a "strong woman" has to be a fighter, when there are plenty of other ways to write competent, capable and powerful female characters. Case in point, Felicity's sudden insecurities in Arrow 2x14 (hate! That episode) because she can't kick ass like Sara. It didn't make any sense because Team Arrow would be just as screwed without Felicity's hacking abilities as it would without Oliver's fighting skills.
ReplyDeleteThe second season of Homeland convinced me that Carrie is not lead character material. I don't care about her mental disorder: if you choose a man you've got the hots for over what you've been fighting for your entire life (stopping terrorism and protecting your country), you're weak. I sympathize with her plight re her feelings for Brody, but not with the ultimate choice she made to be with him.
ReplyDeletelike
ReplyDeleteJacqueline implied I'm taken by surprise that a mom can earn $8130 in 1 month
on the computer . see post Cashfig.COM
I've still got three episodes of season 2 left but she is just annoying.
ReplyDeleteThey say the good ones always go first, I think it's the same with polls on SpoilerTV.
ReplyDeleteVoted for Fiona, Alicia and Carrie.
Voted for Felicity on the first but with some reservations, because while I think Felicity is cute and likable, I don't think she's a terribly well-developed character, and I've never seen the other show. Voted for Donna on the second with no reservations even though I don't watch Glee. Donna's a great character. Alicia on the third because she's deeper. I like Elijah, but like Felicity, he's not not very well developed. Red on the last because he's an awesome character. I've never watched Homeland but I wanted to vote for Red.
ReplyDeleteBy Mob Dramas, i mean: Boardwalk Empire, The Sopranos, & Breaking Bad. I watched a couple eps of Gang Related, it wasn't bad. My schedule is crammed, i'll get back to again eventually.
ReplyDeleteRectify is definitely worth a look. It's a character study, about a man who spent almost 20 years on death row, only to be set free. It's deep, emotional, and can be shocking. With emmy worthy performances.
Banshee is just a an action series, mindless fun. I've only seen the pilot to Fargo, so far. I watch Dallas, because of the original series. But JR is gone now. :( Tyrant is from the creators of 24 & Homeland. It's supposed to show the story, from the other side of things. It's not great, but is getting better.
I only got through 3 eps of The Vampire Diaries. I only tried it, because i was giving The Originals a try. TVD was way too soapy for me, TO was supposed to be different, it wasn't. I want my monsters scary, not in love with humans. (though i do watch True Blood. Suits and The Good Wife, is something i would of watched 20 years ago. But now a days with so many choices, i have a lot from my preferred genres to pick from.
Donna Paulsen is a shining light on Suits. (Honestly I'd be more interested in seeing Donna, Jessica, and Rachel be the main characters but that's neither here nor there)
ReplyDeleteAnd while I really used to enjoy Eli's character on TVD (I haven't seen it in a while), and I realize this is literally a popularity contest, I adore Alicia Florrick as a character so much more.
Over the years she's become a post-anti-hero icon of what a tv character can be in 2014. She's no where close to being perfect (meaning she makes decisions personal, she still milks the 'victim' angle long after she's an established predator), but she's a force, and she deals in all manners of decisions and personal triumphs/tragedies that other tv shows can't quite grasp nowadays.
While I don't have the time right now at this moment, if you want, Dahne later I can give you a very good argument for The Good Wife. People seriously have no idea what to expect with that show. I've been in the business of clarifying it for people for a little while now.
ReplyDeleteyeah, pretty much just elijah. they needed to get all of them out of the show as they were completely taking over the storyline and people were getting sick of klaus.
ReplyDeleteI finally gave up on SUITS at the end of last season. Because I couldn't give a single shit about Mike and Harvey's whining. I was pretty much only watching for Jessica, Donna, and Rachel, and then at that point, seeing how they had to work around the main male characters, I just had to drop it. It was just ughhhh after a certain point.
ReplyDeleteI've done nothing if not become numb to the outcomes of these things. I tend to at this point simply make sure they're in the beginning in hopes that someone will realize there's more tv out there than overdone fantasy tropes and brooding men.
ReplyDeleteI've come to look at it as a badge of honor these days as all my favourites seem to go in the first round of all competitions.
ReplyDeleteIt's like they are too good to go through :)
Maybe DW is Doctor Who?
ReplyDeleteDitto on the DVDs.
ReplyDeleteAll the Big Bads in Buffy were very one dimensional and they were just doing things for the evil lulz.
ReplyDeleteMalcolm Merlyn has gotten more development with his few appearances than all of the Buffy Big Bads combined.
That's one of the main reasons why I quit OUAT and why I think the show has gone downhill (apart from the crappy writing). Nobody stays evil and everybody has some sob story that justifies his/her actions. The show always tries to make it seem like they are almost not guilty of the awful things they have done.
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between developing a villain and trying to completely change his/her villains status with a few retcons.
The first 3 was the same for me and I also went with Carrie in the end. :-)
ReplyDelete1. Felicity Smoak by default.
ReplyDelete2. Donna Paulsen - She's awesome.
3. Elijah Mikaelson by default.
4. Raymond Reddington - Both are intruiging characters but I went with Red because of his relationship with Liz.
I am totally a character-driven watcher. If I don't like the main characters and their relationships and inner demons, I usually don't like or stay with a show. Villains are basically a dime a dozen to me. For example, I have loved Person of Interest for the characters and their relationships, much more than the Machine, or the big bad of government, so I'm a little worried that in creating an all-knowing new machine that will likely be used for evil purposes, and with the main characters now being separated and driven underground, I hope they don't lose the close relationships between the characters, particularly Reese and Finch. If they don't have a way to maintain and continue to grow those relationships, they may lose me. I hope they manage to balance that and have a way to bind them more closely together, but I hope they haven't thrown out the baby with the bath water in, basically. rebooting the series storyline.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I have loved also "Bones," "Game of Thrones," "Homeland,"and "The Good Wife." They have consistently compelling central characters and very good ensemble members that have intricate relationships. The villains come and go, but the relationships are rich and complex. I may not always remember the villains down the road, but I love the central characters and their relationships.
I also like series based on history, like "Vikings," and am anticipating that with "Outlander," since I am a history buff, and those often revolve around a compelling character in history, so those tend to keep me interested. Genres other than that quickly lose me unless the characters and their relationships make me care about them. I'm not really a big horror fan or supernatural storyline fan unless I find the central characters compelling.
I really wanted to watch Homeland once but then some ass spoiled me who died at the end of season 3 so I just couldn't watch knowing that this character would die at the end of season 3 ( not saying his, don't want to spoil you in case you haven't seen the episode )
ReplyDeleteI just can't watch shows like The Good Wife, I mean from the look of the trailers and everything, it seems it's just like any other shows with lawyers you know.. they have to defend a client and blabla these kinds of shows + all the NCIS, Bones, Blue Bloods, H50.
ReplyDeleteBUT I do love Scandal!
Homeland, as I said earlier, some ass spoiled me the end of season 3 and I just couldn't watch it knowing what would happen before even starting the first minute...lol
I tried Arrow when it aired on TV, I liked the pilot but apparently not enough to download the whole season... :)
You had me till you mentioned sexism. Sexism has nothing to do with why they are loosing.
ReplyDeleteI will drop a show because of the characters - OUaT is a prime example of that - and I have to like at least some of the characters to watch. But once I'm into a show it is the plot that drives me. Good characters who do nothing don't get far with me and that's basically what I see in a lot of the dramas around. I dropped The Vampire Diaries after one season because the love triangle outweighed the story. As for Supernatural, I still love the Winchester brothers but the plot holes and canon busting got so bad that I couldn't stand it anymore. If any characters could have gotten me through plot issues, it would have been them. As for comedies, I am far likely to remember a relationship moment or an actual quote than I am the set up for the joke, so for me the situation rarely matters in them.
ReplyDeleteI was actually noodling around with making TV Topic a regular thing since the USD polls do not often lend themselves to more in-depth discussion. My concern would be running out of topics to talk about. I'm not sure I can think of enough to last the whole contest to be honest. What would you like to talk about?
ReplyDeleteI think Almost Human made a mistake with going for the sensational at a time when they needed to create the central story. Sexbots anyone? Yes I know that FOX showed it out of order but they started with a mystery in the pilot and for all intents and purposes dropped it for several episodes before coming back to it suddenly. It's hard to build audience trust that way, especially in genre shows where fans have been burned once too often already.
Heroes is today's TV talk topic so i won't say much but I completely agree for right now. I'll try to remember to address my issues with Oliver in that one.
ReplyDeleteGreat villains who suddenly become stupid becuase it's the end of the season have never appealed to me either. For me it's just as important that the villains remain in character as it is that the main people do. A recent example of this was Rebecca on White Collar. She was a great villain as capable of completely conning Neal as he is of other people. In fact, she was a better con. Still they had to throw that all away so that she could be caught in the end without even trying. It was sloppy and ruined one of my favorite villains on that show for me.
Agree to disagree. For me, Malcolm Merlyn is the most overacted moustache twirler on a show filled with moustache twirling villains. I was completely disgusted when they brought him back from the dead.
ReplyDeleteAh retcon, the bane of the TV world. Sometimes it feels like shows just cannot let go of a character and once they back themselves into a writing corner with them, they will do whatever desperate thing they can to get them back. For me it is soap opera style writing and that rarely pans out.
ReplyDeleteIt's frustrating when it feels like the best characters constantly get shafted for contrived drama between the leads. I only say bits and pieces of the last Suits because I was watching other USA Network shows but it did feel like Harvey and Mike got worse instead of better. I wouls get into the show for a bit but then have to turn it off because they felt like spoiled children.
ReplyDelete"Bones" kind of got past that when Booth and Brennan got together. It's gone back to solving interesting cases with gruesome corpses, and has focused on developing the relationships more deeply. I like what they've done with it the past couple of seasons since Booth and Brennan got together. You might want to give it another look now.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a big lawyer show fan, but I enjoy the characters and their relationships on "Good Wife," again because of interesting characters and relationships.
I'm not crazy about Root either; that's probably my least favorite focus from Season 3. But I still love Reese and Finch's relationship, and I'll tolerate Root for that. I'm sad that "Zoe" is now a regular on "The 100," and it survived, so she'll be there a while. She was a favorite character too on POI.
I don't know if I will like "Homeland" this season, since Carrie and Brody were the compelling characters and they killed off Brody. It's doing kind of a reboot, so I'll have to wait and see if Carrie will be able to keep my interest in a whole different setting. She is interesting but Brody was the most interesting to me.
"Game of Thrones" keeps killing off characters like there was no tomorrow, so the jury is out on it for the moment, but there are so many interesting ones that it does keep reeling me back in.
If they fix Felicity, I would be more likely to finish season 2 knowing there's a light ahead. My biggest problem was that she went from a highly competent, morally centered, important in her own right, smart leader to someone whose entire world revolved arouns her crush who often had questionable values, and, most importantly, kept getting her butt kicked by who I would consider lower skill level hackers while making questionable decisions that got her kidnapped just like they kept doing to Laurel. It felt like they were making her less competent so that she could be Oliver's damsel in distress more than once and that's not a Felicity I care to watch. She got more overly neurotic and less capable when she should have been getting more confident as taking a leader position more often within the team.
ReplyDeleteI would love to hear it. You lead me to Veronica Mars and I am forever grateful for that. Still I am far less concerned about character relationships, hate adultery on TV, and need a strong plot for me to care enough to continue with a show. So why should I watch The Good Wife? Oh and while you convince me, I'd love for you to suggest an episode that I will probably like. The Good Wife has been nominated for my Last Week in TV column and it will eventually be randomly selected. I'd like to go in with an episode I would be more likely to like than not. :-)
ReplyDeleteI think that's why Greek tragedies are so enduring. The heroes were never pure heroes. They always struggled with hubris, and had fatal flaws that would ultimately bring them down. We do like our flawed heroes better. That makes them more real, like the rest of us humans. And villains are better when we understand how their flaws corrupted them instead of being overcome by them. They gain sympathy, and sometimes empathy.
ReplyDeleteI love a good action show, mindless or not, so I will probably try Banshee. It sounds like fun. Tyrant, on the other hand, I hated. It's rgiht up there with Mixology and Black Box as the worst pilots of the year for me although for different reasons. It felt like one rape after another and I have no desire to watch that. I will probably eventually get to Breaking Bad but I am not looking forward to it to be honest because I am not a fan of antiheroes and there is so much TV choice these days. Like you even shows that I think are decent sometimes get shifted to the bottom and buried in the overwhelming amount of TV out there.
ReplyDeleteDuh, thanks. That's another facepalm moment for me. I think i'm going braindead these days.
ReplyDeleteWow, epic terrorist romance. Yeah I think i'll pass. Thanks for clearing one show off my to-watch list.
ReplyDeleteI don't think sexism is the issue. Fiona is from a small comedy that few people have ever heard of much less watch. I'm quite frankly surprised she got in at all. Plus she and Carrie are on premium cable which limits the number of people who watch them. This is a classic case of a small show going against a bigger show, as far as internet presence is concerned. Neither had a chance. The only one that did was Alicia and she's on a much older skewing show, one that has less internet presence again. There is a good chance that the final 4 of this contest will have 2 males and 2 females, which is as balanced as it gets.
ReplyDeleteMy first hope for this contest was good TV discussion to take us through hiatus. My second was for people to find new shows. That's why only one character could be in it per show. I feel like we've gotten a great variety and I've learned about some shows I am interested in now. The end results are never as interesting as the journey for me.
ReplyDeleteHa! Love this way of looking at it too.
ReplyDeleteOf all the characters I've seen in polls this time, I also think Red is the most developed character, especially given that he's only had one season. I'd like to go more quickly into his background but he is the reason I watch the show.
ReplyDeleteI propose they make the secondary characters theleads in 90% of shows on TV today. They tend to be more interesting to me anyway.
ReplyDeleteI so wanted Zoe to become the regular on PoI and was disappointed when they went with Shaw and Root instead. Still I love her as Abby on The 100 and it gives her a lot more screen time so I am good with it.
ReplyDeleteI'm all about balance. I want the action, heavy main plot (serialized shows) but also personal relationships.
ReplyDeleteI tend to have secondary characters I love, but also love the main characters. If I can't love the main characters, I can't love the show.
Yes, she's good on The 100, but I can kinda take or leave the show as a whole. So I would like to see her eventually surface again on POI.
ReplyDeleteYou might like it better this season. I do. I know what you mean about the Mike and Harvey whining, but the show seems to have toned that down. There's also a subplot around Jessica, Lewis, and a new guy that's kind of funny.
ReplyDeleteI love Zoe too.
ReplyDeleteI see your point. For me The 100 was one of the best new shows of the season though and in my top 5 shows I am looking forward to returning in the fall so I am happy she's Abby. I wish she could make guest appearances as Zoe though.
ReplyDeleteHa! Gabriel does top my list of current TV mustache twirlers. I think I actually have less patience with characters than I did a decade ago. I think that's because much of TV has become a job for me and I feel like many characters are the same these days so they blur together. If there were less TV choices, I would be a lot more patient with both the characters and shows as a whole.
ReplyDeleteI have over 20 shows, but yeah, it's not a job for me obviously, just a past time. Maybe it's the writer in me that gets me so into it all.
ReplyDeleteI get frustrated with characters plenty (argh Elena on Vampire Diaries is the worst the last couple years). But I just have a hard time letting shows go, especially when I like other characters still.
Reminds me of a book series I read. Killed off my favorite character, made the main character an antihero who I cannot like anymore at all. Literally only still reading to see how it ends.
I agree about Person of Interest. There's a reason I loved Season 1 and 2 more than season 3. Less characters taking up time, more focus on Finch and Reese. If I take the dog scenes out of season 2 (lol) I loved Season 1 most.
ReplyDeleteFor a non-speaking character, Bear is a sweet part of POI. I love him too! Hope he doesn't disappear in this next season. He didn't go with Reese, which surprised me....
ReplyDeleteI like black and white characters more too in the sense of hero vs. villain. Sometimes I just end up having to put up with a character becoming "grey". And sometimes I just find myself liking the antihero or villain despite everything. I can be very forgiving at times. Though often it's a case of "forgive not forget". Regina on OUAT is like that. Want to still hate her, absolutely can't. Find myself weirded out by this. The awful things she did should not be forgivable (same with Rumple).
ReplyDeleteThat's what's stopping me from loving Felicity too.
ReplyDeleteMe too.
ReplyDeleteOne of my co-workers loved that show. Weekly she would come to my desk and rant about that dropped mystery. :-)
ReplyDeleteI felt that Nigel wasn't the villain of the piece, but more over a guy that a corrupt Government took for granted and that Insyndicate just pushed him in a more immoral direction (when he climbed over the wall, he looked genuinely scared, as if he had never done so before, suggesting he was about to cross a very specific line. Additionally I felt we could see an evolution to Nigel through both Rudy Lom and Nico). Bad Robot villains tend to not be whole heatedly bad, but more over often a byproduct of either deception , brown beating, loss, and/or obsessive spiritual pursuits (Irina Derevko, Arvin, Sloane, William Bell, Charlies Widmore, Benjamin Linus, David Robert Jones, Sebastian Monroe)
ReplyDeleteI will make my argument for it after work -- but a good episode off the top of my head is "Executive order 13224" - A great episode (for reasons I'll explain in my later arguments) featuring the amazing Elsbeth Tascioni. :)
ReplyDeleteIf you read the July interview from IGN with Joel Wyman from last summer, Wyman clearly states that they wanted to roll out the mythology sooner, but FOX insisted that they try to run the story of the week gimmick first. He had promised that there was a great story and mythology, but that it would take it's time coming out. That being said there clearly was a lot of indirect mythology building, a lot of repeating, but interesting subject matter/themes, and a lot setting up for that story.
ReplyDeleteEven though it was out of order, it wasn't enough to ruin the story. It was just DRN and Kennex' relationship that occasion felt out of place. I think there is also a discrepancy on just how many episodes it was suppose to be. There are people who claim that the press tour had said it was going to have 13 episode seasons, but I swear I read that it was 13 with potential back order. If you look at Fringe and if you would stop at episode 13 of the first season, it would be very similar situation, as it's really the last ten episodes that strings it all together and second season that was a bit more serialized leading to the beautiful third season. It really needed a full season.
Thanks.
ReplyDeleteHe slapped a vampires head off when he entered TVD
ReplyDeleteWow hold on, I almost forgot about "Hitting the Fan" -- The reason I would hold off possibly is that it turns the entire 4 seasons before it on its head--meaning huge spoilers for a storyline to add up over years. However, I read a few comments in a few places where people had sampled that episode and then had to go back and binge the whole series, because it still hit them like they'd been there all along. So I think that's my suggestion.
ReplyDeleteI actually like Elijah better on The Originals because his character is really layered and he opens up a lot more
ReplyDeleteI too have a celebrity crush on Mark Shepherd. I met him at a convention last year and I was more star struck by him than J2! He is the only character that I think Carver has done a great job with and I am cautiously optimistic about his promotion to series regular for S10. He's one of those actors that if his name is attached to a show, it's guaranteed that I will be watching it so even if S10 continues the lackluster writing of S8-S9, I will grin and bare it because of his character!
ReplyDeleteYep, Wilson is right, I meant Doctor Who for DW. Sometimes the abbreviations I use really only make sense to me! I laughed at the Designing Women reference - Julia was definitely not to be trifled with! Ha - I forgot how much I enjoyed that show until just now :-)
I really wish the DVD industry would learn from their British counterparts. Within a month of Sherlock S3 airing in the US, it was available on DVD. I bought that baby the morning it was released even though I had already watched it online. I agree that giving the audience at least a month before the premier to catch up - whether it is refreshing your memory before the new season starts or checking it out for the first time - and get people excited about the show and the coming TV season. Most DVD's have commercials on them so they could use it as a marketing tool for new shows too.
I am of the firm belief that Mark Sheppard makes eveything better. There's a reason why every freaking show on the planet has him as a guest star at some point. I am excited that he will have a more permanent position on SPN, but I live for the day when he has his own show. I can't think of anyone who deserves it more. Believe me the Doctor Who thing was definitely me not you. People use that abbreviation all the time and it just went right over my head. (Along with my typing skills today if the recap is any indication. Urgh!) Marketing along with DVD sales will forever baffle me in the TV world. They constantly do their very best to use as little common sense as possible.
ReplyDeleteHitting the Fan it is then. I'm not sure when The Good Wife will be randomly selected but I'm glad to have a plan when it is.
ReplyDeleteOuch! That had to be a memorable entrance. Hope the vamp was a bad guy.
ReplyDeleteHe does pop up in the oddest places - his Wikipedia page of TV appearances is a mile long! I agree that he should have his own show. Since The CW seems bent on getting a SPN spin off on the air, perhaps Crowley's origin story (ending at the first time he is called by the boys as a crossroads demon) would be better received than that drivel they gave us the first time around.
ReplyDeletePS - I'll forgive your lapses if you forgive mine...I think I actually used the word "funnest" in a comment the other night - oye, it's been a rough couple of weeks!
OK so I posted my comment/argument for the show like 5 hours ago and it said it needed to be moderated, and now I can't find it.
ReplyDeleteThat's weird. It happened one other time in this contest that I know about so I'll have to ask Andy about it.
ReplyDeleteI have posted it since, and still nothing.
ReplyDeleteI had a link to an article in the post, so maybe I'll try to post it again without the link in it...
Well what the heck why wouldn't it let me post that? XD
ReplyDeleteI was able to see it but not to reply so I posted what you read myself. Let me read it, but thanks for such a detailed reponse and for trying so diligently to get it to post.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea why. There was some spam that got through yesterday so maybe the system is extra cautious right now. Who knows?
ReplyDeleteThanks for taking time to write this. I will say that my preconceived notions of The Good Wife is soapy relationship show with love triangles and a case of the week. I had heard abut the love triangle which made me dread the show even more. I saw the pilot a long time ago and I wasn't up for a "Lifetime movie drama" show.
I will say that after reading your take the love triangle still worries me and I am no fan of adultery no matter who's jumping whom. I am also concerned because I have heard that the kids are brats and I have no time for that. However the idea that there is humor in it makes me think that it might not take itself as seriously as I feared. I'm also glad to hear that the cases she takes on are interesting in their own right. Is this a case of the week thing or do some cases take multiple weeks to conclude? Either works for me. I'm just curious. Also do you have a date or more specific link to the article? I tried looking it up in the search but had no luck. Mostly though I am curious about the characters as you have presented them. I liked Kalinda immediately in the episode I saw. Her brusk, get the job done attitude appeals to me. If Alicia is also competent and not drowning in emoangst, but in a similar vein as Veronica Mars then I am all on board for trying. Now I just need to find the time. Thanks again for makingsuch a compelling case for the show.
- OK first off, the kids are not brats. They are teenagers, so there are a couple times where they lie or disagree, but it is never like other kids on tv shows. I don't know where you heard that, but the only thing I can really think of was Grace's sort've awkward sideplot in season 3, which wasn't bratty, it was just her needing guidance and Alicia needing to give that guidance to her. They actually are a couple of smart kids that are quick on the draw and actually help their mother and father out of problems (especially Zach, who is tech-savvy whereas Alicia is not very capable with computers/electronics). They have troubles because of the situation they find themselves in as their parents are quite famous (or infamous, if you're talking about the father) and they have little things here and there, but I don't believe I ever had a problem with them. They're just going through adolescence. Over the years they become small, integral parts to the story.
ReplyDelete- You'll have to explain to me more about your love triangle qualms... The love triangle thing is on the backburner for most of season 1 with the exception of the first finale, and the triangle is sort've played out of the picture by mid-to-late season 3. I think for seasons 4-5 it was just sort've mentioned once or so.
- Search for "New Yorker, The Good Wife First great show technology"
- Alicia is actually known as someone who is not really all that emotional. She's cool and collected, but she has been recently victimized by her husband, by the media, and by the people she was friends with, etc. She doesn't get angsty about things. She quietly resolves issues in her head, and she approaches the situation with the most level-headed response she can. Sometimes that builds over a few episodes, and every once in a while there's a problem she can't quite handle yet. She rarely cries though. When she does, you know exactly why and you sure as hell would too. She's actually in that position of being humiliated publicly and having to reinvent who she is in response to that humiliation like Veronica. But this is a more adult situation, where she is now the bread-winner after 15 years as a meek housewife. Her transformation, though slow over the course of the series, is fairly stunning.
- I may have a couple other things to mention after your response.
Rough couple of weeks indeed. Sorry to hear it's got you too. I would adore a Crowley spin-off. Since demons don't age it would be perfect. I always wanted a SPN spin-off where some of the kids they saved banded together and became junior hunters themselves. Ben's memory could come back. I always wanted to know what happened to Michael from Something Wicked and Kat was awesome in her own right from Asylum. I don't agree with spin-offs that are in name only and have little to do with the show they start from
ReplyDeleteIt was as frustrating at times as it was good. I think it would have improved dramatically had it gotten another season and if TPTB has taken their hands off of it.
ReplyDeleteI rarely get time to read reviews and interviews these days. In fact it's pushing it to read spoilers, so I only do that with a small selection of shows. I did not know about the interview. In fact, I didn't know the episodes were airing out of order until I mentioned how the second episode had no flow on Twitter. I'm not sure I have as much faith in Joel Wyman as you do especially since I tend to be an impatient viewer. A slow roll out rarely appeals to me. I found some of the repeating and little hints to actually be less satisfying since they didn't seem to go anywhere. I agree that the show would have done better with more episodes. They built a beautiful world and a great partnership but the story was all over the place for me.
ReplyDeleteHa! We were talking I think in the nominations stage about how Bear would be in the semifinals of any animal character contest. He certainly added a lot more to the story than I ever expected.
ReplyDeleteThere is something to be said for show loyalty and when they really do turn it around it pays off big time. This is actually tomorrow's TV talk topic so I'll leave it at that.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Nigel was pushed into his path by the circumstances but also by a laser focused push to advance technology. While his circumstances could make him more sympathetic and there are definitely other villains in play, I would still say that from what we saw Nigel was the most compelling villain because of his more personal connection to Dorian and Rudy. I actually would rather he become a darker force than more grey but that's my usual preference.
ReplyDeleteThe concerns you mention about person of interest plagued me last season. I felt like we'd lost a bit of the element that pushed the show to the top of the list for me. (It took me over a month to watch the finale...I used to watch the minute I got home from work)
ReplyDeleteI am giddy with anticipation for Outlander. {self editing the insane giddy burble that the mention of Outlander set off.}
I have more patience for plot holes than I do for stupidity or a show taking a direction abjectly disagree with (characterwise or plotwise) For example, as annoyed as I got with OUaT, TVD, and Supernatural but...I still watch those shows. NCIS:LA had Kensei and Deeks sleep together and I stopped watching.
ReplyDeleteHe was season 2s Spike (big bad first, untrustworthy ally later) so nah, that vamp ran from him since the late 1800s.
ReplyDeleteI'd give season 2 a try Dahne, one of theCWs best seasons for a show
Well, to be fair, the terrorist, Brody, does start to reform at the point in the story when they get together. And since he's one of the two main characters, the show goes a long way towards explaining how damaged he is and how he felt betrayed by his country, to the point where he decided to commit acts of terrorism. But the romance still did me in because Carrie is a CIA investigator who's dedicated her whole life to fighting terrorism and protecting her country. I just couldn't accept that she would so quickly turn on that and allow herself to be with someone who betrayed the country. There should've been more conflict and it should've taken longer, in my opinion. Even considering she herself is a damaged and messed-up character (she's bipolar), I just couldn't deal with the fact that a female character - and the protagonist of the series - was once again abandoning her morals and principles for a man.
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to say this so it wouldn't seem like I was reducing Homeland, and its characters, to something completely ridiculous and simplistic. It does touch upon the wrongness of Carrie and Brody's relationship, just not in a satisfactory manner, in my opinion.
I am just surprised that it took this long to bring Outlander to either the big or small screen. I'm glad it was TV as a series. The books are filled with rich content (I started reading the series back at almost the starting point in the early 90's and have loved them), and it would have been almost impossible to do justice to the story in just a film, so I am greatly anticipating the series. The casting looks pretty good too! It's been a long time coming, right?
ReplyDeleteBy the way, have you read the audio book format for the series? Davina Porter is a WONDERFUL narrator and does a superlative job on them--it's the next best thing to a TV series right now! I highly recommend them.
Thanks for clarifying. I am no fan of established characters becoming out of character for romance anyway. It always feels like a writing cheat to me.
ReplyDeleteOMG I LOVE the audio books. Davina Porter is indeed wonderful.
ReplyDeleteTruly a person after my own heart! ;o)
ReplyDeleteI'm not opposed to watching season 2, but I hated the plot stopping so people could swoon over the love triangle. It felt like things were always 2 steps forward and 1 stpe back to me. I didn't care about Stefan at all, Damon only when he was snarking, and it always depended on which Elena showed up on screen whether I wanted to watch of Gibbs slap her.
ReplyDeleteSorry it took so long, to get these replies done.
ReplyDeleteTyrant is brutal. They have concluded "that" storyline. I too, was shocked by some of the scenes. The creators are the same ones, that made 24 and Homeland. Though it has no actual connection; they have made it clear, that it is a piece of the puzzle, of their story into terrorism and counter terrorism. I'd imagine, it's more about the conditions, that breed the grassroots of the foot soldiers. As such, i'm going to give it a season, and see. But i understand, anyone not watching, it is brutal.
I've only watched, the first season of Breaking Bad so far. It was only seven episodes. I really enjoyed it, and will be getting back to it in the fall.
I've only seen the first two episodes of Banshee. Right now, i'm catching up on Homeland (in s3) and Person of Interest (s2). I started POI, with the last season, then went back to the beginning. After that, i'm going to rewatch season 3 and The Blacklist, to refresh my memory, before the new seasons. Then i'll get back to Banshee.
Of those shows, out of my preferred genres i listed, i highly recommend Rectify. If you are into deep character studies that is. It is well acted, written, directed, and shot.
I used to marathon most of my shows before the next season premiered but this time I will probably on rewatch Sleepy Hollow and trust that the "previously on" for the rest of them will remind me. Too much other TV. I was tempted to buy Banshee at Target today but I decided to wach at least one episode first to see if it's my thing or not. As for Rectify, I tend to equate character studies with zero plot movement which doesn't work for me. I tend to be a plot-driven viewer over a character driven one. I am enjoying TURN a lot so that one I am actually caught up on. I had never heard of Da Vinci's Demons before this contest, so I look forward to learning more about it. Bates Motel is on my to-watch list so given how that is going I should watch it sometime 3 decades from now. :-)
ReplyDeleteThe Walking Dead & Game of Thrones, got me into character driven stories. Though they are both hybrids, with plot development as well.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to start my rewatch, in mid August. I plan to watch The Walking Dead, & Sleepy Hollow every third day or so. And throw Les Revenants, Resurrection, Utopia (1st viewing), and the rest season 3 of Supernatural into the mix. I'll also rewatch Agents of SHIELD and Arrow as well.
I could not get into The Walking Dead. I watched the whole first season but I found it alternately gross and boring. I am glad that it became a huge hit though because I credit it for some of the horror type shows that followed. Sounds like you will be very busy in August.
ReplyDeleteNot to justify Carrie's poor judgement, in any way, but she is bipolar. I think that she felt just as damaged, but acted out in other ways. I think seeing how damaged Brody was, drew her to him. But yeah, it went a little off the rails. I just started season 3. Yeah i know about Brody, got spoiled. Not the how though. I'm invested, especially in Saul. So i'll stick around for now.
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