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This is dependent on if I'm attached to the show...
CBS is ruthless at ripping shows of it's schedule with shows like We Are Men, Made in Jersey...
I personally have lost a lot of good shows from ABC, ones that I'm quite annoyed about like Once Upon a Time in Wonderland, 666 Park Avenue (I really liked this one), Last Resort, Trophy Wife, The Neighbors, Better With You, How To Live Without Your Parents...
FOX also causes grief with fan favorites: Almost Human, Terra Nova, Enlisted...
For me NBC killed Revolution otherwise it's not too ruthless, in my experience. NBC did cancel a lot of comedies last season though...
I'm just glad The CW let's us see all the episodes but then gives us a horrible finale: Star-Crossed, Emily Owens M.D., The Tomorrow People, The Secret Circle, but there not exactly ruthless, yet more unable/ unwilling to escape their teenage stigma to allow for a larger audience.
Basing this on stats for 2013/2014 season and not including reality shows or shows that were due to end like HIMYM.
ABC: Cancelled 9 shows: Back In The Game, Betrayal, Killer Women, Lucky 7, Mixology, Once Upon a Time in Wonderland, Suburgatory, Super Fun Night, Trophy Wife
CBS: Cancelled 6 shows: Bad Teacher, Crazy Ones, Friends with Better Lives, Hostages, Intelligence, We Are Men
FOX: Cancelled 6 shows: Almost Human, Dads, Enlisted, Murder Police (ordered it then cancelled before they aired!), Raising Hope, Rake
NBC:Cancelled 9 shows: Believe, Community, Crisis, Dracula, Ironside, The Michael J Fox Show, Revolution, Sean Saves the World, Welcome to the Family
CW: Cancelled 3 shows: Carrie Diaries, Nikita, The Tomorrow People
So ABC and NBC are definitely the worst, I would say ABC probably just beats NBC because it often cancels shows after a few episodes (Lucky 7, Killer Women)
Hands down CBS. I can think of a fair amount of examples of the other networks giving their long running shows final seasons/notice:
CW: Nikita, Smallville, One Tree Hill, Gossip Girl FOX: Dollhouse (though not necessarily long running), Glee, Fringe, House NBC: Parenthood, Parks and Rec, 30 Rock, Chuck ABC: Desperate Housewives, LOST, Private Practice, Ugly Betty (didn't get a "final season" but at least they let them know before they filmed the finale)
CBS on the other hand rarely announces a "final season" for a show/gives advance notice. The two examples I can think of are HIMYM and Two and a Half Men which were for their 9th and 12th seasons. It seems CBS needs a show to go at least a decade before they consider owing their fans any sort of "final season" Even CSI: Miami and NY made it to 10/9 seasons and they were cancelled abruptly.
I do think NBC has some issues too though because they order like double the amount of shows that every other network does, saves half of them for midseason, cuts their episode numbers to 6 and burns them off, which I think is kind of messed up. But at the same time, though NBC is ruthless to their one season shows, at least I trust that if NBC has a show on for 5+ years, they'll give it a final season, whereas I don't trust CBS to do that even to their longest running show. For me not getting a final season for a show that ive been watching for 5+ years is way worse than a show getting cancelled after 1 or 2 seasons
Really? The Assets, Back in the Game, Betrayal, Killer Women, Lucky 7, Mind Games, Mixology, The Neighbors, Once Upon a Time in Wonderland, Suburgatory, Super Fun, NightTrophy Wife
This is a tough questions, because it has a lot to do with the station's overall performance. CBS seems to have the harshest cancellation policy, but that's partially because a lot of their scripted shows tend to do better. Their shows also tend to have the most longevity, once they've proven themselves after one or two seasons, so they're loyalty seems to lie most in preserving their older shows. But that's also because all of their procedural shows have gathered a more loyal and predictable viewership
NBC and ABC tend to cancel a lot more shows, but they also tend to take more risks and try out a wide variety of new shows. So this results in more misses than stations like CBS that tend to stick with a more constant theme. NBC has the added problem of not having a solid base viewership and not being very good at promoting their new shows. But I wouldn't call them the most ruthless, mainly because I can usually predict which shows they'll cancel. Yes, they've cancelled some shows I like, but it rarely comes as a surprise to me. Same with CBS. I loved Intelligence, but I was pretty certain that CBS would cancel it based on ratings.
This gets me to Fox, which I think is the worst when it comes to treatment of their shows and also their viewers. Their criteria for cancellation may not be as strict as CBS, but it definitely is the most idiosyncratic, which I think is even worst. They're the station most likely to keep shows with horrible ratings (like Mindy project and Glee) while cancelling shows with average or slightly above average ratings without logical explanation. Maybe it comes down to blatant favoritism or behind-the-scenes problems that we aren't privvy too, but either way, they tend to have the most WTF cancellations and renewals. So I voted FOX.
Ah, its my poll! Anyway, it depends on how you look at it. CW is not ruthless as they let shows with low ratings run for years although that might cost them some newbies which are doing OK (example: The Tomorrow People). Fox usually let low-rated shows run its season (Dads) or sometimes pulls it off the schedule after 75% of the episodes have aired (Ben and Kate). NBC tends to have patience with their new shows too (The Michael J. Fox Show, Sean Saves the World) though there are shows that get pulled after a few episodes (Welcome to the Family, Ironside). ABC cancels and pulls a lot of shows after a few episodes (Lucky 7, The Assets, Mind Games, Killer Women) while others can finish its run (Betrayal, OUAT in Wonderland, Trophy Wife). CBS is almost the same but seems to have a little less patience than ABC (We Are Men, Friends with Better Lives, Bad Teacher) though there still are exception (Hostages, Intelligence). CBS also rarely gives shows a final season (CSI: Miami, CSI: New York). So even though it's the network I watch most, I have to go with CBS.
Seriously guys, FOX is the most ruthless network when it comes to cancelling show ? LOL.
Now please explain me why did they renew New Girl, Glee, The Following, Brooklyn 99, The Mindy Project months ago, and were considering to renew Enlisted.
I guess I have another definition of the word "ruthless" then.
NBC definitely. I prefer watching a show that gets cancelled quickly than be invested in a show for a couple of years an all of a sudden gets cancelled withouth a conclusion to the story.
CBS has a more competitive situation when it comes to timeslots. They have more hits than other channels in regards to ratings, and have done some shady stuff to cancel shows that were performing decently without warning, although this hasn't happened in a little while.
FOX gets more flak for it because they cancel beloved shows that are a hit with niche genre fans, and they also do a lot of weird stuff here and there like change episode orders, make shows jump around to different dates, etc. but I see all that as trying to find a place for those shows on the schedule. Remember how they treated Fringe -- got them acclaim for years, but never got them ratings.
NBC is just a mess and you can never tell what they'll do with a show, except things do have a higher tolerance for being cancelled there overal since everything except for 1 night rates so low.
ABC is about in between FOX and NBC.
CW doesn't really even cancel the shows that are ratings failures (on CW standards) for at least a season usually.
I'm surprised that so many people selected NBC, considering how many shows the CW has cancelled without giving them a real chance. Still, I believe the network that has cancelled the most quality shows is Fox. True that networks depend on ratings, but I think Fox sets standards too high when it comes to that. Shows that brought in some serious fan bases were cancelled before the fans could have a chance to warm up to the network. Very bad decision-making. I remember when NBC gave Heroes more chances than the show should have had. Any remaining viewers were only watching to see their favorite actors.
FOX. They killed "Firefly", "Almost Human", "Terminator: The Sarah Chronicles", "Tru Calling", "Dark Angel", "Fastlane", "Breaking In", "Wonderfalls" among others.
I'd say it's NBC, with ABC running up in second place. Every year NBC is the one that cancels the most shows, and ABC just recently became more forgiving, but there was a time when they cancelled everything that underperformed even a little
Just as a note, Fox doesn't program from 10-11 so that's three hours less of programming to cancel. Raw numbers really don't tell the whole story. You would need to look at percentages of shows canceled out of shows on the network , which I'm too lazy to compute.
To me, the question here is: which network cancels the highest number of shows that should be renewed or that could go either way?
I don't particularly find a strong pattern with networks, but I would probably go with ABC. ABC has some really head-scratching cancellations like Suburgatory, How to Live which have ratings for renewal but they just cut them. They also tend to pull shows quite fast. Both CBS and NBC are also harsh in particular instances (Friends with Better Lives, Community), but I don't think they are totally unjustified.
I would strongly disagree with anyone trying to claim it's FOX or the CW, since I think they are BY FAR the most patient networks. The only "con" example for FOX from the last few years in which I think they could have renewed and they went with cancel is Almost Human, everything else they cancelled was a clear cancel and they even renewed stuff that would be cancel worthy at times. I don't think I even have a "con" example for the CW. Examples of "good" cases for CW/FOX would be Beauty and the Beast, The Carrie Diaries, Fringe Season 5, The Mindy Project Season 2, The Mindy Project Season 3, The Following Season 3, Brooklyn Nine-Nine Season 2, Touch Season 2, Nikita Season 3, etc etc etc.
I think NBC and ABC always try the most shows too, which is why it always feels they are the ones cancelling more. I am not sure if it's particularly fair in NBC's case though.
Why? The only case in the last few years in which they could have gone either way was Almost Human; everything else they've cancelled were clear cancellations! Moreover, they've renewed plenty of stuff that was likely cancellation/bubble.
While I am not familiar with the ratings situation of Firefly or Sarah Connor, the cancellations of Dollhouse and Alcatraz were perfectly justifiable. There was nothing FOX could do to renew them IMO. At least my definition for this question is: "which networks cancels more shows that could have been renewed/ that are in limbo"? Neither Alcatraz or Dollhouse fit that bill, at all. Moreover, Terra Nova's cancellation was also justified due to the costs (RIP. I loved Terra Nova). The only one I would agree with would be Almost Human in recent years, but that's one single case (that honestly could have gone either way) while there are a lot of counter-examples of reach-renewals...
FOX renewals and cancellations are not WTF. The Mindy Project and Glee were renewed due to their strong 18-34s performance, which makes them more profitable to the network than an average rated show in 18-49, but without a performance of note in 18-34, as was the case of Almost Human.
While 18-49 ratings are the best criteria to judge fair or unfair renewals, there are other factors, such as 18-34 and the number of episodes. Remember that, at the end of the day, it is all about profitability, so the only way you can say a renewal was unfair is if that show makes the network less profit than a show that was cancelled.
I don't really agree with that criteria to judge, even though ironically I would agree with your outcome I think. ABC and NBC are also the networks that order the most shows to begin with, so logically they will be the ones that cancel more shows! That doesn't make them the most ruthless networks IMO!
For instance, if we do it in terms of % of shows that aired:
ABC aired: Castle, Shield, The Goldbergs, Trophy Wife, Killer Women, Lucky 7, Mind Games, Middle, Suburgatory, Back in the Game, Modern Family, Super Fun Night, Mixology, Nashville, Grey's Anatomy, The Assets, Wonderland, Scandal, Last Man Standing, The Neighbors, Once Upon a Time, Revenge, Betrayal and Resurrection. They've therefore cancelled 50% of their lineup.
NBC aired: The Blacklist, About a Boy, Growing Up Fisher, Chicago Fire, Revolution, SVU, Ironside, Chicago PD, Community, Parks and Recreation, Welcome to the Family, The Michael J.Fox Show, Sean Saves the World, Parenthood, Grimm, Dracula, Hannibal, Crisis and Believe. They've therefore cancelled 53% of their lineup
CBS aired: How I Met Your Mother, 2 Broke Girls, We Are Men, Mom, Mike and Molly, Friends with Better Lives, Hostages, Intelligence, NCIS, NCIS LA, POI, Criminal Minds, CSI, TBBT, The Millers, The Crazy Ones, Bad Teacher, Two and a Half Men, Elementary, H50, Blue Bloods, The Good Wife, The Mentalist. They've therefore cancelled 27% of their lineup
FOX aired: Bones, Sleepy Hollow, Almost Human, The Following, New Girl, The Mindy Project, B99, Dads, Glee, Rake, Surviving Jack, Raising Hope, Enlisted. They've therefore cancelled 46% of their lineup.
CW aired: Dixie, Beauty and the Beast, Star-Crossed, TTP, The Originals, Supernatural, Arrow, The 100, TVD, Reign, Carrie Diaries, Nikita. They've therefore cancelled 27% of their lineup.
But even this is misleading, because all networks tend to cancel more new shows than veteran shows! So, since NBC and ABC always order more new shows, they would be the ones to cancel more shows automatically. If we do this just with new shows:
ABC aired: Shield, The Goldbergs, Trophy Wife, Killer Women, Lucky 7, Mind Games, Back in the Game, Super Fun Night, Mixology, Assets, Wonderland, Betrayal and Resurrection. They've therefore cancelled 77% of their new shows!
NBC aired: The Blacklist, About a Boy, Growing Up Fisher, Ironside, Chicago PD, Welcome to the Family, The Michael J.Fox Show, Sean Saves the World, Dracula, Crisis and Believe. They've therefore cancelled 72% of their new shows!
CBS aired: We Are Men, Mom, Friends with Better Lives, Hostages, Intelligence, Millers, The Crazy Ones, Bad Teacher. They've therefore cancelled 75% of their new shows!
FOX aired: Sleepy Hollow, Almost Human, B99, Dads, Rake, Surviving Jack, Enlisted. They've therefore cancelled 71% of their new shows!
CW aired: Star-Crossed, TTP, The Originals, The 100, Reign. They've therefore cancelled 40% of their new shows!
Excluding the cw, which is actually pretty generous with new shows and is somehow an outlier due to the few number of shows it has, all the other networks have basically the same % of freshman cancellations, give or take!
To me what is offensive is canceling fan favorites that are doing better than other shows they pick up.
And the worst offenses along these lines were :
(1) Fox's canceling of Almost Human, which did better in the ratings than The Following and
(2) NBC's canceling of Revolution after putting it in a terrible time slot -- 8PM and opposite Arrow when it should have been at ten PM -- where it still was by far their highest rated canceled show. They couldn't have tried a different timeslot rather than throwing it under the bus?
may not show it this year but FOX for sure has cancelled a ton of shows over the years, their biggest crime definitely would be firefly. Lately i would say NBC, i haven't watched Hannibal yet but heard its excellent and it was nearly cancelled, it would be such a shame to lose good TV just cuz ratings aren't up to scratch.
I agree, FOX and CW are by far the most patient networks around, but that may change now for FOX now that Kevin Reilley stepped down- the man wanted to renew Almost Human AND ENLISTED!! Enlisted for god's sake! So FOX may take different choices now, which makes me worry for the future of B99, but let's hope the new guy doesn't cancel everything
I think NBC became more ruthless this season as they saw a chance to come back in top with The Blacklist's success, it wouldn't have hurt him to give Community a final season, but they were like "f*ck it, we have ratings now!". ABC forgave Nashville, which is why I put it in second place, but it surely almost made it to top with the cancellation of Suburgatory. Historically, ABC is the most ruthless, but this season NBC took the crown (it didn't forgive anything that underperformed, whereas ABC gave Nashville another go)
The Firefly cancellation was indeed ruthless and an admitted mistake from the network. All the others shows mentioned did awful in the ratings, and had no way to make profit at the time (that doesn't make it any less sad that Wonderfalls wasn't renewed, it makes me wonder why it seems like USA hates Bryan Fuller shows when they are so good)
I actually think they saved Dollhouse, its first season ratings were crap by the end of the season and didn't justify a renewal. The second season gave the writers a chance to wrap things up. Firefly was the only that wasn't justified as it was doing ok in Fridays. The same goes for Almost Human which did surprisingly well on Mondays considering its crazy schedule. Terra Nova was one of the most expensive shows in television history, so avarage ratings just didn't make the cut
NBC did renew Hannibal and Parenthood. While Hannibal can be explained by low costs, I view Parenthood as much of a reach renewal as Nashville. The fact that both went down to the wire and were the last renewals of the season shows how much they were bubble shows.
Hannibal was a safe bet for Fridays as it did the same as last year and it costs just few bucks and it also gives them a boost on the critically acclaim front. As for Parenthood, the show did improve sharply the timeslot, and Thursday 10PM has been a nightmare for NBC, so I didn't doubt its fate. But yeah, I must admit that NBC was at least a bit forgiving with those 2. Maybe NBC and ABC are actually tied this season
It's been over a decade. Time to stop holding Firefly against FOX. While I would have liked Almost Human to be renewed and I most definitely wish they had not aired episodes out of order, I will say that FOX has done a decent job of reversing its ruthless reputation. This is the network that continued Fringe when it had no reason to. The CW is also very, very patient with its shows. No other network would keep shows so off the network average around for the whole season. Granted they cannot afford not to, but still viewers of CW shows are pretty much guaranteed to see the whole show unless someone has to hunt for the ratings with a super powered microscope and even then there's a good chance it will remain on. Heck, it might even get renewed.
For me it is between ABC and NBC, so I'm going to give the nod to...ABC I think. They cancelled more and it feels like they pulled more shows early. That may not be true because I certainly didnt watch everything cancelled.
Some of what they have cancelled they never gave a good shot to begin with. Bad time slots, no advertising and their favorite, airing episodes out of order.
The only show in those conditions I can find is Enlisted. All the other shows had a decent shot/ a decent schedule. Which shows are you referring to?
The airing episodes out of order is annoying and I do believe it hurts shows more than helps it, but I think it's hardly a reason to call a network ruthless.
I think it's a bit naive to say that you didn't doubt Parenthood's fate when it was literally an eleventh hour thing that was clear could have gone either way as it came down to cost negotiations. I do agree about Hannibal though.
I can tell from your replies up and down this thread that you just want to argue. There are whole lists of shows cancelled by Fox that were deeply loved by people, so yes, Fox may just be hitting a nerve. Almost Human, Dark Angel, Firefly, Past Life, Running Wilde, Unhitched ect.
Yeah, but that's because they anticipated it would be the final season. Just like The Mentalist did this season but then suddenly got renewed. I believe CSI NY has done a season-could-be-series finale for years (seasons 7, 8 and 9?). Correct me if I'm wrong, I never watched any of them.
Nowadays, I'd say ABC. Historically, Fox, though they do still treat some shows very badly airing them out of order, and I (along with a generation of fans) will never forgive them for Firefly.
I'm generally more pissed at Syfy though these days. Yes I know it's a cable network so not included in this poll, but it's killed off a lot more shows in the last 3-4 years that I enjoy than any of the ones above.
I am simply stating facts and trying to leave shows' preference out of it, nothing else. I am not familiar with the ratings situation of shows like Dark Angel, Firefly or Unhitched, but Past Life and Running Wild were clear cancellations the year they've aired, I just don't see why a network would be ruthless in those circumstances.
Fox for me as I was disappointed most this year with them dropping surviving jack and they have cancelled a few shows over the years that I really enjoyed:(
Yep, S7, S8 and S9 finales would have been great series finales. Yet, the EP came out all three times and went "No, we've not been told to write this as a series finale and so we haven't."
5 years of Chuck, Community, Parenthood and 6 of Parks and Rec say otherwise. Not to mention Cheers, and Seinfeld surviving on NBC for 1, 3 seasons respectively until their ratings stopped sucking. Hell Scrubs survived for 7 seasons despite awful ratings. NBC is the most benevolent of the big four. Fox is the worst.
A lot of great shows with dedicated fan bases got cancelled by FOX Firefly , Terminator , Dark Angel etc.They may not be as "ruthless" now but i think in the past they definitely have been some of their decisions to cancel some shows in the past haven't been justified Firefly being the main one.
But that's assuming their decisions are based entirely on profits and I don't think that's the case. It's possible that Glee is profitable in certain areas (e.g. itunes sales, etc.) It's also a show that gets a lot of media attention. The MIndy Project.may get more critical acclaim than the average comedy show, but financially speaking, there was nothing profitable about the MIndy Project relative to a lot of other cancelled shows. It was renewed because it was Kevin Reilly's baby; he personally loved the show and had no qualms about admitting this. He also had a longvterm vision of making Fox the home of trendsetting comedies like Glee, New Girl, Brooklyn nine-nine, etc, which is why he stubbornly clung to certain shows that should have been cancelled before others. There's a reason he was forced to step down as chairman of Fox last month.
See I feel that the CW although clearly unable to let go of the format, is trying some new elements in regards to shows and trying to get better, bigger shows.
Oh yeah I definitely agree, that's just how they used to be, they definetly stepped up their game with The 100, I just wish it had a larger audience, one that it deserved.
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NBC, for sure. Afraid to watch their new shows, because usually they get cancelled.
ReplyDeleteNothing beats ABC.
ReplyDeleteThis is dependent on if I'm attached to the show...
ReplyDeleteCBS is ruthless at ripping shows of it's schedule with shows like We Are Men, Made in Jersey...
I personally have lost a lot of good shows from ABC, ones that I'm quite annoyed about like Once Upon a Time in Wonderland, 666 Park Avenue (I really liked this one), Last Resort, Trophy Wife, The Neighbors, Better With You, How To Live Without Your Parents...
FOX also causes grief with fan favorites: Almost Human, Terra Nova, Enlisted...
For me NBC killed Revolution otherwise it's not too ruthless, in my experience. NBC did cancel a lot of comedies last season though...
I'm just glad The CW let's us see all the episodes but then gives us a horrible finale: Star-Crossed, Emily Owens M.D., The Tomorrow People, The Secret Circle, but there not exactly ruthless, yet more unable/ unwilling to escape their teenage stigma to allow for a larger audience.
Really? ABC and CBS were the only broadcast networks, i didn't lose any shows from this year.
ReplyDeleteBasing this on stats for 2013/2014 season and not including reality shows or shows that were due to end like HIMYM.
ReplyDeleteABC: Cancelled 9 shows: Back In The Game, Betrayal, Killer Women, Lucky 7, Mixology, Once Upon a Time in Wonderland, Suburgatory, Super Fun Night, Trophy Wife
CBS: Cancelled 6 shows: Bad Teacher, Crazy Ones, Friends with Better Lives, Hostages, Intelligence, We Are Men
FOX: Cancelled 6 shows: Almost Human, Dads, Enlisted, Murder Police (ordered it then cancelled before they aired!), Raising Hope, Rake
NBC:Cancelled 9 shows: Believe, Community, Crisis, Dracula, Ironside, The Michael J Fox Show, Revolution, Sean Saves the World, Welcome to the Family
CW: Cancelled 3 shows: Carrie Diaries, Nikita, The Tomorrow People
So ABC and NBC are definitely the worst, I would say ABC probably just beats NBC because it often cancels shows after a few episodes (Lucky 7, Killer Women)
NBC, followed closely by FOX.
ReplyDeleteHands down CBS. I can think of a fair amount of examples of the other networks giving their long running shows final seasons/notice:
ReplyDeleteCW: Nikita, Smallville, One Tree Hill, Gossip Girl
FOX: Dollhouse (though not necessarily long running), Glee, Fringe, House
NBC: Parenthood, Parks and Rec, 30 Rock, Chuck
ABC: Desperate Housewives, LOST, Private Practice, Ugly Betty (didn't get a "final season" but at least they let them know before they filmed the finale)
CBS on the other hand rarely announces a "final season" for a show/gives advance notice. The two examples I can think of are HIMYM and Two and a Half Men which were for their 9th and 12th seasons. It seems CBS needs a show to go at least a decade before they consider owing their fans any sort of "final season" Even CSI: Miami and NY made it to 10/9 seasons and they were cancelled abruptly.
I do think NBC has some issues too though because they order like double the amount of shows that every other network does, saves half of them for midseason, cuts their episode numbers to 6 and burns them off, which I think is kind of messed up. But at the same time, though NBC is ruthless to their one season shows, at least I trust that if NBC has a show on for 5+ years, they'll give it a final season, whereas I don't trust CBS to do that even to their longest running show. For me not getting a final season for a show that ive been watching for 5+ years is way worse than a show getting cancelled after 1 or 2 seasons
I think it´s CBS.
ReplyDeletethough I guess in my thoughts I define "ruthless" as cancelling a show without it getting a proper ending, rather than number of cancellations
ReplyDeleteMore stats to compare with the 2012/2013 season
ReplyDeleteABC: Cancelled 10 shows
CBS: Cancelled 6 shows
CW: Cancelled 3 shows
FOX: Cancelled 4 shows
NBC: Cancelled 10 shows
So still NBC and ABC are the biggest offenders.
Really? The Assets, Back in the Game, Betrayal, Killer Women, Lucky 7, Mind Games, Mixology, The Neighbors, Once Upon a Time in Wonderland, Suburgatory, Super Fun, NightTrophy Wife
ReplyDeleteI didn't watch any of them. I was going to try , but i just didn't have the time. My losses:
ReplyDeleteNBC: Believe, Revolution, Crisis
FOX: Only Almost Human this year, but have lost countless series in years past.
CBS: Intelligence
CW: The Tomorrow People
Fox is not only ruthless but they mess with the ep orders which causes confusion with viewers.
ReplyDeleteThis is a tough questions, because it has a lot to do with the station's overall performance. CBS seems to have the harshest cancellation policy, but that's partially because a lot of their scripted shows tend to do better. Their shows also tend to have the most longevity, once they've proven themselves after one or two seasons, so they're loyalty seems to lie most in preserving their older shows. But that's also because all of their procedural shows have gathered a more loyal and predictable viewership
ReplyDeleteNBC and ABC tend to cancel a lot more shows, but they also tend to take more risks and try out a wide variety of new shows. So this results in more misses than stations like CBS that tend to stick with a more constant theme. NBC has the added problem of not having a solid base viewership and not being very good at promoting their new shows. But I wouldn't call them the most ruthless, mainly because I can usually predict which shows they'll cancel. Yes, they've cancelled some shows I like, but it rarely comes as a surprise to me. Same with CBS. I loved Intelligence, but I was pretty certain that CBS would cancel it based on ratings.
This gets me to Fox, which I think is the worst when it comes to treatment of their shows and also their viewers. Their criteria for cancellation may not be as strict as CBS, but it definitely is the most idiosyncratic, which I think is even worst. They're the station most likely to keep shows with horrible ratings (like Mindy project and Glee) while cancelling shows with average or slightly above average ratings without logical explanation. Maybe it comes down to blatant favoritism or behind-the-scenes problems that we aren't privvy too, but either way, they tend to have the most WTF cancellations and renewals. So I voted FOX.
Yes that is my thought of ruthless also. Just pulling it and not caring about fans.
ReplyDeleteAh, its my poll! Anyway, it depends on how you look at it. CW is not ruthless as they let shows with low ratings run for years although that might cost them some newbies which are doing OK (example: The Tomorrow People). Fox usually let low-rated shows run its season (Dads) or sometimes pulls it off the schedule after 75% of the episodes have aired (Ben and Kate). NBC tends to have patience with their new shows too (The Michael J. Fox Show, Sean Saves the World) though there are shows that get pulled after a few episodes (Welcome to the Family, Ironside). ABC cancels and pulls a lot of shows after a few episodes (Lucky 7, The Assets, Mind Games, Killer Women) while others can finish its run (Betrayal, OUAT in Wonderland, Trophy Wife). CBS is almost the same but seems to have a little less patience than ABC (We Are Men, Friends with Better Lives, Bad Teacher) though there still are exception (Hostages, Intelligence). CBS also rarely gives shows a final season (CSI: Miami, CSI: New York). So even though it's the network I watch most, I have to go with CBS.
ReplyDeleteYou forgot Mind Games for ABC ;)
ReplyDeleteSeriously guys, FOX is the most ruthless network when it comes to cancelling show ? LOL.
ReplyDeleteNow please explain me why did they renew New Girl, Glee, The Following, Brooklyn 99, The Mindy Project months ago, and were considering to renew Enlisted.
I guess I have another definition of the word "ruthless" then.
Well, ABC was not ruthless, it's just it did bad ratings....
ReplyDeleteThough Suburgatory and Super Fun Night had a small chance to get renewed.
NBC definitely. I prefer watching a show that gets cancelled quickly than be invested in a show for a couple of years an all of a sudden gets cancelled withouth a conclusion to the story.
ReplyDeleteAnd The Neighbors
ReplyDeleteOh thanks!
ReplyDeleteDamn ABC really are the show killers this season.
ReplyDeleteYeah, and the one that hurts the most is Trophy Wife. I miss it already.
ReplyDeleteSame, I mean I'm happy we got a full season at least but everyone was so damn funny on the show .
ReplyDeleteCBS has a more competitive situation when it comes to timeslots. They have more hits than other channels in regards to ratings, and have done some shady stuff to cancel shows that were performing decently without warning, although this hasn't happened in a little while.
ReplyDeleteFOX gets more flak for it because they cancel beloved shows that are a hit with niche genre fans, and they also do a lot of weird stuff here and there like change episode orders, make shows jump around to different dates, etc. but I see all that as trying to find a place for those shows on the schedule. Remember how they treated Fringe -- got them acclaim for years, but never got them ratings.
NBC is just a mess and you can never tell what they'll do with a show, except things do have a higher tolerance for being cancelled there overal since everything except for 1 night rates so low.
ABC is about in between FOX and NBC.
CW doesn't really even cancel the shows that are ratings failures (on CW standards) for at least a season usually.
I'm surprised that so many people selected NBC, considering how many shows the CW has cancelled without giving them a real chance. Still, I believe the network that has cancelled the most quality shows is Fox. True that networks depend on ratings, but I think Fox sets standards too high when it comes to that. Shows that brought in some serious fan bases were cancelled before the fans could have a chance to warm up to the network. Very bad decision-making. I remember when NBC gave Heroes more chances than the show should have had. Any remaining viewers were only watching to see their favorite actors.
ReplyDeleteFOX. They killed "Firefly", "Almost Human", "Terminator: The Sarah Chronicles", "Tru Calling", "Dark Angel", "Fastlane", "Breaking In", "Wonderfalls" among others.
ReplyDeleteProbaly their smartest show and they killed it !
ReplyDelete"Sometimes Fox and NBC cancellations don't make any sense."
ReplyDeleteAlmost Human and Revolution's cancellations make any sense for sure.
FOX
ReplyDeleteCW!!! They cancelled the Secret Circle while it was the third highest rated show!
ReplyDeleteYeah, same goes for me. Even if they renew it, they can kill it next year with their horrible promotion or stupid time slot.
ReplyDeleteI'd say it's NBC, with ABC running up in second place. Every year NBC is the one that cancels the most shows, and ABC just recently became more forgiving, but there was a time when they cancelled everything that underperformed even a little
ReplyDeleteJust as a note, Fox doesn't program from 10-11 so that's three hours less of programming to cancel. Raw numbers really don't tell the whole story. You would need to look at percentages of shows canceled out of shows on the network , which I'm too lazy to compute.
ReplyDeleteTo me, the question here is: which network cancels the highest number of shows that should be renewed or that could go either way?
ReplyDeleteI don't particularly find a strong pattern with networks, but I would probably go with ABC. ABC has some really head-scratching cancellations like Suburgatory, How to Live which have ratings for renewal but they just cut them. They also tend to pull shows quite fast. Both CBS and NBC are also harsh in particular instances (Friends with Better Lives, Community), but I don't think they are totally unjustified.
I would strongly disagree with anyone trying to claim it's FOX or the CW, since I think they are BY FAR the most patient networks. The only "con" example for FOX from the last few years in which I think they could have renewed and they went with cancel is Almost Human, everything else they cancelled was a clear cancel and they even renewed stuff that would be cancel worthy at times. I don't think I even have a "con" example for the CW. Examples of "good" cases for CW/FOX would be Beauty and the Beast, The Carrie Diaries, Fringe Season 5, The Mindy Project Season 2, The Mindy Project Season 3, The Following Season 3, Brooklyn Nine-Nine Season 2, Touch Season 2, Nikita Season 3, etc etc etc.
I think NBC and ABC always try the most shows too, which is why it always feels they are the ones cancelling more. I am not sure if it's particularly fair in NBC's case though.
ReplyDeleteI loved the secret circle but they were right in cancelling it.
ReplyDeleteWhy? The only case in the last few years in which they could have gone either way was Almost Human; everything else they've cancelled were clear cancellations! Moreover, they've renewed plenty of stuff that was likely cancellation/bubble.
ReplyDeleteWhile I am not familiar with the ratings situation of Firefly or Sarah Connor, the cancellations of Dollhouse and Alcatraz were perfectly justifiable. There was nothing FOX could do to renew them IMO. At least my definition for this question is: "which networks cancels more shows that could have been renewed/ that are in limbo"? Neither Alcatraz or Dollhouse fit that bill, at all. Moreover, Terra Nova's cancellation was also justified due to the costs (RIP. I loved Terra Nova). The only one I would agree with would be Almost Human in recent years, but that's one single case (that honestly could have gone either way) while there are a lot of counter-examples of reach-renewals...
ReplyDeleteFOX renewals and cancellations are not WTF. The Mindy Project and Glee were renewed due to their strong 18-34s performance, which makes them more profitable to the network than an average rated show in 18-49, but without a performance of note in 18-34, as was the case of Almost Human.
ReplyDeleteWhile 18-49 ratings are the best criteria to judge fair or unfair renewals, there are other factors, such as 18-34 and the number of episodes. Remember that, at the end of the day, it is all about profitability, so the only way you can say a renewal was unfair is if that show makes the network less profit than a show that was cancelled.
I don't really agree with that criteria to judge, even though ironically I would agree with your outcome I think. ABC and NBC are also the networks that order the most shows to begin with, so logically they will be the ones that cancel more shows! That doesn't make them the most ruthless networks IMO!
ReplyDeleteFor instance, if we do it in terms of % of shows that aired:
ReplyDeleteABC aired: Castle, Shield, The Goldbergs, Trophy Wife, Killer Women, Lucky 7, Mind Games, Middle, Suburgatory, Back in the Game, Modern Family, Super Fun Night, Mixology, Nashville, Grey's Anatomy, The Assets, Wonderland, Scandal, Last Man Standing, The Neighbors, Once Upon a Time, Revenge, Betrayal and Resurrection. They've therefore cancelled 50% of their lineup.
NBC aired: The Blacklist, About a Boy, Growing Up Fisher, Chicago Fire, Revolution, SVU, Ironside, Chicago PD, Community, Parks and Recreation, Welcome to the Family, The Michael J.Fox Show, Sean Saves the World, Parenthood, Grimm, Dracula, Hannibal, Crisis and Believe. They've therefore cancelled 53% of their lineup
CBS aired: How I Met Your Mother, 2 Broke Girls, We Are Men, Mom, Mike and Molly, Friends with Better Lives, Hostages, Intelligence, NCIS, NCIS LA, POI, Criminal Minds, CSI, TBBT, The Millers, The Crazy Ones, Bad Teacher, Two and a Half Men, Elementary, H50, Blue Bloods, The Good Wife, The Mentalist. They've therefore cancelled 27% of their lineup
FOX aired: Bones, Sleepy Hollow, Almost Human, The Following, New Girl, The Mindy Project, B99, Dads, Glee, Rake, Surviving Jack, Raising Hope, Enlisted. They've therefore cancelled 46% of their lineup.
CW aired: Dixie, Beauty and the Beast, Star-Crossed, TTP, The Originals, Supernatural, Arrow, The 100, TVD, Reign, Carrie Diaries, Nikita. They've therefore cancelled 27% of their lineup.
But even this is misleading, because all networks tend to cancel more new shows than veteran shows! So, since NBC and ABC always order more new shows, they would be the ones to cancel more shows automatically. If we do this just with new shows:
ABC aired: Shield, The Goldbergs, Trophy Wife, Killer Women, Lucky 7, Mind Games, Back in the Game, Super Fun Night, Mixology, Assets, Wonderland, Betrayal and Resurrection. They've therefore cancelled 77% of their new shows!
NBC aired: The Blacklist, About a Boy, Growing Up Fisher, Ironside, Chicago PD, Welcome to the Family, The Michael J.Fox Show, Sean Saves the World, Dracula,
Crisis and Believe. They've therefore cancelled 72% of their new shows!
CBS aired: We Are Men, Mom, Friends with Better Lives, Hostages, Intelligence, Millers, The Crazy Ones, Bad Teacher. They've therefore cancelled 75% of their new shows!
FOX aired: Sleepy Hollow, Almost Human, B99, Dads, Rake, Surviving Jack, Enlisted. They've therefore cancelled 71% of their new shows!
CW aired: Star-Crossed, TTP, The Originals, The 100, Reign. They've therefore cancelled 40% of their new shows!
Excluding the cw, which is actually pretty generous with new shows and is somehow an outlier due to the few number of shows it has, all the other networks have basically the same % of freshman cancellations, give or take!
Where is Syfy?
ReplyDeleteTo me what is offensive is canceling fan favorites that are doing better than other shows they pick up.
ReplyDeleteAnd the worst offenses along these lines were :
(1) Fox's canceling of Almost Human, which did better in the ratings than The Following and
(2) NBC's canceling of Revolution after putting it in a terrible time slot -- 8PM and opposite Arrow when it should have been at ten PM -- where it still was by far their highest rated canceled show. They couldn't have tried a different timeslot rather than throwing it under the bus?
They have to cancel the lowest rated shows. What is offensive is canceling fan favorites that are NOT low rated,
ReplyDeletemay not show it this year but FOX for sure has cancelled a ton of shows over the years, their biggest crime definitely would be firefly. Lately i would say NBC, i haven't watched Hannibal yet but heard its excellent and it was nearly cancelled, it would be such a shame to lose good TV just cuz ratings aren't up to scratch.
ReplyDeleteThat is a cable network. This is only for broadcast networks.
ReplyDeleteBoth of those CSIs were wrapped up well in the final episode. The entirety of CSI NY season 9 felt like a final season.
ReplyDeleteI agree, FOX and CW are by far the most patient networks around, but that may change now for FOX now that Kevin Reilley stepped down- the man wanted to renew Almost Human AND ENLISTED!! Enlisted for god's sake!
ReplyDeleteSo FOX may take different choices now, which makes me worry for the future of B99, but let's hope the new guy doesn't cancel everything
I think NBC became more ruthless this season as they saw a chance to come back in top with The Blacklist's success, it wouldn't have hurt him to give Community a final season, but they were like "f*ck it, we have ratings now!". ABC forgave Nashville, which is why I put it in second place, but it surely almost made it to top with the cancellation of Suburgatory.
ReplyDeleteHistorically, ABC is the most ruthless, but this season NBC took the crown (it didn't forgive anything that underperformed, whereas ABC gave Nashville another go)
The Firefly cancellation was indeed ruthless and an admitted mistake from the network. All the others shows mentioned did awful in the ratings, and had no way to make profit at the time (that doesn't make it any less sad that Wonderfalls wasn't renewed, it makes me wonder why it seems like USA hates Bryan Fuller shows when they are so good)
ReplyDeleteI actually think they saved Dollhouse, its first season ratings were crap by the end of the season and didn't justify a renewal. The second season gave the writers a chance to wrap things up.
ReplyDeleteFirefly was the only that wasn't justified as it was doing ok in Fridays. The same goes for Almost Human which did surprisingly well on Mondays considering its crazy schedule.
Terra Nova was one of the most expensive shows in television history, so avarage ratings just didn't make the cut
Firefly was not justified, Sarah Connor was (it ended its 2nd season with low 1s, and at the time that was like nowadays 0.8)
ReplyDeleteNBC did renew Hannibal and Parenthood. While Hannibal can be explained by low costs, I view Parenthood as much of a reach renewal as Nashville. The fact that both went down to the wire and were the last renewals of the season shows how much they were bubble shows.
ReplyDeleteHannibal was a safe bet for Fridays as it did the same as last year and it costs just few bucks and it also gives them a boost on the critically acclaim front. As for Parenthood, the show did improve sharply the timeslot, and Thursday 10PM has been a nightmare for NBC, so I didn't doubt its fate.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, I must admit that NBC was at least a bit forgiving with those 2. Maybe NBC and ABC are actually tied this season
It's been over a decade. Time to stop holding Firefly against FOX. While I would have liked Almost Human to be renewed and I most definitely wish they had not aired episodes out of order, I will say that FOX has done a decent job of reversing its ruthless reputation. This is the network that continued Fringe when it had no reason to. The CW is also very, very patient with its shows. No other network would keep shows so off the network average around for the whole season. Granted they cannot afford not to, but still viewers of CW shows are pretty much guaranteed to see the whole show unless someone has to hunt for the ratings with a super powered microscope and even then there's a good chance it will remain on. Heck, it might even get renewed.
ReplyDeleteFor me it is between ABC and NBC, so I'm going to give the nod to...ABC I think. They cancelled more and it feels like they pulled more shows early. That may not be true because I certainly didnt watch everything cancelled.
Some of what they have cancelled they never gave a good shot to begin with. Bad time slots, no advertising and their favorite, airing episodes out of order.
ReplyDeleteBecause they currently have nothing better and they can't have dead air!
ReplyDeleteThe only show in those conditions I can find is Enlisted. All the other shows had a decent shot/ a decent schedule. Which shows are you referring to?
ReplyDeleteThe airing episodes out of order is annoying and I do believe it hurts shows more than helps it, but I think it's hardly a reason to call a network ruthless.
I think it's a bit naive to say that you didn't doubt Parenthood's fate when it was literally an eleventh hour thing that was clear could have gone either way as it came down to cost negotiations. I do agree about Hannibal though.
ReplyDeleteI can tell from your replies up and down this thread that you just want to argue. There are whole lists of shows cancelled by Fox that were deeply loved by people, so yes, Fox may just be hitting a nerve. Almost Human, Dark Angel, Firefly, Past Life, Running Wilde, Unhitched ect.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but that's because they anticipated it would be the final season. Just like The Mentalist did this season but then suddenly got renewed. I believe CSI NY has done a season-could-be-series finale for years (seasons 7, 8 and 9?). Correct me if I'm wrong, I never watched any of them.
ReplyDeleteNowadays, I'd say ABC. Historically, Fox, though they do still treat some shows very badly airing them out of order, and I (along with a generation of fans) will never forgive them for Firefly.
ReplyDeleteI'm generally more pissed at Syfy though these days. Yes I know it's a cable network so not included in this poll, but it's killed off a lot more shows in the last 3-4 years that I enjoy than any of the ones above.
I am simply stating facts and trying to leave shows' preference out of it, nothing else. I am not familiar with the ratings situation of shows like Dark Angel, Firefly or Unhitched, but Past Life and Running Wild were clear cancellations the year they've aired, I just don't see why a network would be ruthless in those circumstances.
ReplyDeleteFox for me as I was disappointed most this year with them dropping surviving jack and they have cancelled a few shows over the years that I really enjoyed:(
ReplyDeleteOne of the writers for Revolution is going to be writing for Constantine... Good Luck to that show
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Over the last 2 years (for me) its ABC otherwise its been NBC. FOX has had there fair share as well..
ReplyDeleteNBC since they canceled one of the best shows to come along in ages, Revolution!
ReplyDeleteYep, S7, S8 and S9 finales would have been great series finales. Yet, the EP came out all three times and went "No, we've not been told to write this as a series finale and so we haven't."
ReplyDeleteDefinitely recommend it. Best of the CSIs.
CBS; which cancels shows that other networks would kill to have.
ReplyDeleteLet's not forget killing Harry's Law; which averaged seven million viewers a week; which placed it in the top four with overall viewers.
ReplyDeleteOnly watched Killer Women.
ReplyDeleteMiss Almost Human and Enlisted.
ReplyDeleteFox seems to favor reality/competition shows; especially if a certain chef with ties to the Murdoch family is involved.
ReplyDelete5 years of Chuck, Community, Parenthood and 6 of Parks and Rec say otherwise. Not to mention Cheers, and Seinfeld surviving on NBC for 1, 3 seasons respectively until their ratings stopped sucking. Hell Scrubs survived for 7 seasons despite awful ratings. NBC is the most benevolent of the big four. Fox is the worst.
ReplyDeleteThey also retain the shows with the lowest ratings for multiple seasons most often.
ReplyDeleteFox and NBC. I used to think CBS was bad until I started watching more of their shows.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen Enlisted, heard it was funny.
ReplyDeleteI've not seen the backdoor pilot but the premise makes me want to stay a hundred thousand miles from it.
ReplyDeleteI have a whole list of shows syfy have cancelled. A town called Eureka , Stargate Universe etc.
ReplyDeleteA lot of great shows with dedicated fan bases got cancelled by FOX Firefly , Terminator , Dark Angel etc.They may not be as "ruthless" now but i think in the past they definitely have been some of their decisions to cancel some shows in the past haven't been justified Firefly being the main one.
ReplyDeleteWith a touching finale.
ReplyDeleteBut that's assuming their decisions are based entirely on profits and I don't think that's the case. It's possible that Glee is profitable in certain areas (e.g. itunes sales, etc.) It's also a show that gets a lot of media attention. The MIndy Project.may get more critical acclaim than the average comedy show, but financially speaking, there was nothing profitable about the MIndy Project relative to a lot of other cancelled shows. It was renewed because it was Kevin Reilly's baby; he personally loved the show and had no qualms about admitting this. He also had a longvterm vision of making Fox the home of trendsetting comedies like Glee, New Girl, Brooklyn nine-nine, etc, which is why he stubbornly clung to certain shows that should have been cancelled before others. There's a reason he was forced to step down as chairman of Fox last month.
ReplyDeleteSee I feel that the CW although clearly unable to let go of the format, is trying some new elements in regards to shows and trying to get better, bigger shows.
ReplyDeleteProbably didn't generate enough ad revenue.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah I definitely agree, that's just how they used to be, they definetly stepped up their game with The 100, I just wish it had a larger audience, one that it deserved.
ReplyDeleteso only watch comedies on NBC, that way u know they will go a couple of seasons.
ReplyDeleteFOX! :-(
ReplyDeleteBtw I voted on FOX because they do something unnacceptable for me: airing episodes out of order.
ReplyDeleteABC does it too (ask Apartment 23 fans) but FOX is the ultimate worst on that.
Swedish TV3 also airs episodes out of order. :-( I don't understand why they are so stupid!
ReplyDeleteHow about we start our TV network and call it Uncancellable? :P
ReplyDeleteNBC is the champion !
ReplyDeleteAh ok.
ReplyDeletevoted for cw cause they cancelled the secret circle :)
ReplyDelete