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If it were possible, I'd say the "season" that lapsed from the second half of Season 1 to the first half of Season 2. Katherine as the Big Bad was amazing. And then they neutered her to torture us endlessly with Klaus. *sigh*
Season 2, undoubtely! That's when the show peaked, and everything went downhill from there. Season 5 is definitely the worst, I hope the writers turn it all around. No more Delena, no more killing beloved characters like Katherine and new dynamics, please!
This is how it goes for me: 1 - Season 2 2 - Season 1 3 - Season 3 4 - Season 4 5 - Season 5
Season 1, 2 and 3 were great.Since Elena become vampire and Delena happened, the show went down.. the writers didn't make a good job for season 4 and 5 . Let's hope season 6 will be better or it may be the least...
I think I liked Season 2 the best. Season 1 was also good. I stopped watching for a while during Season 3 because I couldn't stand all of the scenes between Klaus and Caroline. He had more scenes with her than with Elena, who was the reason he was still around with his hybrids at that time. Season 4 was really bad. I'm guessing even the EPs want to forget that one. I'd say the show picked up a little in the final arc of Season 5 because we finally got to see the end of resurrections and resurrection rings. I don't know if or how Damon will be brought back, but we were promised that there will be no more complete resurrections because the dead are where witches aren't supposed to or are unable to bother them.
I liked 4. I love how as in the Start it was Stefan who caused the people he 'loved' to become Vampires. Ie it was Stefan in the start who cause Damon to turn, Damon wanted to die otherwise but Stefan didnt want to be left alone. And then when it came to rescue Elena, he picked the wrong person because.. thats who he is. Of course he didnt know about the Vampire blood in the system. Still I think it was a good throwback to the earlier storyline.
Im a little meh on Katherine. She works best when not used much, and then completely degenerated when she was used too much.
Definitely season 2,i miss those amazing episode quality!! Please come back kevin williamson ASAP,these two fangirl-julie and caroline are destroying TVD!!
S2. S3 was good too but the Klaroline crap ruined part of it for me. S4 wasn't good but it wasn't boring. S5 was a mess (and I prefer DE over SE but I don't ship anyone in this show) and the only good thing was Enzo.
the early seasons were far and away the best for me, especially S2 - this past season was not good - so much so that I'm considering giving up the show altogether... we'll see come fall
Hands down S2. It's the only season I can still go back to to view certain all-time favourite TVD scenes. S1 was good but the show was still establishing itself and while I loved aspects of S3 as well, the downward spiral of Elena's character halfway through and diluting Stefan and Damon's bromance, which for me was always the heart and soul of the show, didn't sit well with me. 3-4 episodes into S4 I stopped watching the series so can't comment on what's happened in the past two years.
2 season because Elijah was introduced in it. I was about to drop the show and then finally they brought in an ancient unkillable wordly-wise vampire. And then of course his brother Klaus came along. If it wasn't for the Original family i would have dropped the whole Stelena vs Delena a long time ago.
I thought season 3 did a better job overall with the Originals storyline. Everything tied up real nicely in end. Season 2 was a close second, I loved the whole sacrifice storyline and Katherine. Here's my rankings Season 3 Season 2 Season 1 Season 4 Season 5 Here's my thoughts on how to make Season 6 better. 1. Bring Stelena Back!!! No one likes Delena. That whole thing is toxic. One of the many reasons season 2 was great was because of Stelena. There was once a period in this show where Delena was needed. That period is now gone. Stelena is needed in this show to return it to it's former glory. 2. Introduce a Mythology not Connected to Vampires, Werewolves, Witches etc. One of the many reasons viewers dipped in season 4 and 5 is because they complicated things with adding details that made everything confusing for the viewers. Teen Wolf season 3 was so great because they took a detour from the werewolf/kanima mythology and went into Druids and Kitsunes. 3. Permanent Deaths!! This had been said so many times so I won't go to much into it. I just hope at least Bonnie or Damon stays dead. 4. Caroline needs to go to The Originals Caroline has just been kinda stuck ever since she broke up with Tyler. The writers gave her a solution by suddenly have her fall madly in love with Stefan. No. Caroline would get so much better writing on The Originals 5. A Formidable Villain In my eyes ever since Elena turned into a vampire the villains (expect for Silas and very slight maybe for Markos) all played second ball to the main characters. They have a whole book series to take ideas from. Another solution would be to turn a main character completely bad.
I hoped you enjoyed my little insight. I just hope the writers get off their lazy asses and make something worth seeing.
S1 and S2. The show was good back then. With S3 it's going down. JP ruined the show completely. Not with introducing Klaus (he was a great villain), but when she became incapable of letting him go (send him away, kill him, whatever). JP wanted to keep him at all costs. And the price was the quality of the show. With forcing Klaus to become regular and with all that loopholes (obviously she had no idea what she was doing. She thought of something she thought was a good idea and did it. Without any sense of logic) she completely ruined the show. I loved the show in S1 and 2. 3 was partly ok. 4 was hard to watch. I didn't even watched S5. And from what I heard I didn't miss much.
Hey! I am a Delena fan. And I would never chose S4 or S5 (and those were actually season where they were together). I didn't even watch S5 because this show sadly became a waste of my time. S1 and 2 were great. S3 was acceptable. But since Klaus became regular, JP was systematically ruining this great show. She was making things up as she went and every nonsense she explained with "natural loophole" or "magical loophole". She totally ruined the show. And it was not because of the Delena relationship. Since you assume that only Delena fans voted for S5 I assume it has a lot of Delena elements. As I said, I haven't seen it.
Oh, don't get me start on Caroline and Klaus. Caroline is such a hypocritical bitch. For 3 season (4 now) she hates Damon for what he did to her, she won't forgive him and gives Elena lectures for being with him. And don't get me wrong, what Damon did to Caroline was wrong. But how can she hate Damon for what happened in S1 and ignore what Klaus did in S3 and 4? To her, her friends, the people in MF. Klaus is responsible for most of the deaths in S3 and S4. And sill She funks Klaus and hates Damon … That is why I Lost any respect I had for her (Caroline).
"They didn't know how to include The Originals in the main storyline" I think it's partly true. In S2 Klaus was the perfect villain. And everything made sense, although it's true that sometimes the story was developing too slowly in S1 and 2. But with S3 the show was going down. I always say the Originals were great. They came, they killed and it was their time to leave. But JP seemed to miss the last part. It was obvious, that she was too close to the character of Klaus. She wanted him on the show. She brought in his entire family to bring us closer to the character, she started a romance between him and Caroline to make him more human and more likable (not that bought it for a sec). All good and fine. But it started to show in S3, that she was making things up, breaking rules, just to justify keeping him. She used Elenas blood as reason for Klaus to come back every time he used up his supply, started a war between Klaus and the brothers. Then it got more and more ridiculous. The daggers were working on other originals but hot on him (even before his wolf side was awakened), they find a way to kill originals but can't kill Klaus, cause that would kill his entire line, including our MF vamps, when Elena turned and he had NO reason to stay, a cure shows up, …
JP fucked it up. Not with the originals (I actually liked them. But again the story was evolving too slow). But when she was unable to let Klaus go. The Original family was great. But they should have left in the middle of S3, but JP wanted Klaus. So she ruined the show just to keep him. Great work JP!
To tell you the truth, when I first heard of the spin-off I thought: Great! We finally finally get rid of Klaus and maybe this shit that became TVD can again be the great show it was in the beginning. Guess I was wrong. As I hear it, S5 is even worse than S4. Glad I didn't waste my time on it.
"They didn't know how to include The Originals in the main storyline" I think it's partly true. In S2 Klaus was the perfect villain. And everything made sense, although it's true that sometimes the story was developing too slowly in S1 and 2. But with S3 the show was going down. I always say the Originals were great. They came, they killed and it was their time to leave. But JP seemed to miss the last part. It was obvious, that she was too close to the character of Klaus. She wanted him on the show. She brought in his entire family to bring us closer to the character, she started a romance between him and Caroline to make him more human and more likable (not that bought it for a sec). All good and fine. But it started to show in S3, that she was making things up, breaking rules, just to justify keeping him. She used Elenas blood as reason for Klaus to come back every time he used up his supply, started a war between Klaus and the brothers. Then it got more and more ridiculous. The daggers were working on other originals but hot on him (even before his wolf side was awakened), they find a way to kill originals but can't kill Klaus, cause that would kill his entire line, including our MF vamps, when Elena turned and he had NO reason to stay, a cure shows up, … JP fucked it up. Not with the originals (I actually liked them. But again the story was evolving too slow). But when she was unable to let Klaus go. The Original family was great. But they should have left in the middle of S3, but JP wanted Klaus. So she ruined the show just to keep him. Great work JP! To tell you the truth, when I first heard of the spin-off I thought: Great! We finally finally get rid of Klaus and maybe this shit that became TVD can again be the great show it was in the beginning. Guess I was wrong. As I hear it, S5 is even worse than S4. Glad I didn't waste my time on it.
Exactly. Caroline is the biggest hypocrite in this show and I can't believe everytime somebody defends her like she did no wrong and she has every right to give Elena a hard time for being with Damon when Klaus made Elena's life a living hell. I don't care if you love or hate Delena, Caroline is still the biggest hypocrite in this show.
Didn't see this till now, sorry. Klaroline crap? Couldn't agree more, honey! I always hated them. It was just an attempt of JP to make him more likable. In S2 Caroline became a fan favorite. And I guess, JP thought, pairing Klaus with her would make him more likable and also a favorite. In some eps you even see that JP tried to change his character. He was open and gentle with Caroline, he was nice and charming, … and in the next ep he killed 5 or 10 innocents cause he felt like it. Not only it didn't work, and showed obviously that JP didn't know what she wanted to do with the character, it also ruined Carolines character. Sorry if you see it differently, but I really began to hate her. She became such a hypocrite. Even in S4 (and probably in S5 too) she hated Damon for what he did to her in S1. Remember the scene she made when she found out that Elena was sleeping with Damon? Don't get me wrong, what he did was wrong. But how can she, even after all this time, hate Damon for what happened, and forget what Klaus did to her and her friends just weeks or months ago. She even fucked Klaus. I mean … This guy almost killed her 2 or 3 times, he killed her friends, turned Tyler (he could have killed him), killed innocents for no other reason than boredom. And still she fucks Klaus and still hates Damon. It makes no sense.
I'm Delena fan. Since the beginning. Stelena is boring.
And I posted just minutes ago that I liked Caroline. She was great (after she turned). But since JP paired her up with Klaus I lost all respect I had for her.
Damon & Katherine were also introduced villains and Damon continues to be a main character. I don't really see Klaus as being any different - I never had an issue with him being a main character because almost all the characters on the show are villains (IMO). I hated the 100 plots to try to kill Klaus because it got to the point that I didn't even understand why they wanted him dead. I thought what they should have dropped that in Season 3 once the curse was broken because he no longer had any interest in killing Elena or her friends and that seems to be the only thing the MFG cares about.
I don't really think introducing The Originals was the problem - I think that the real issue was that Julie lost interest in a lot of the other characters like Bonnie, Tyler & Jeremy. I think Kevin Williamson cared more about them than Julie did so when he left the show their characters suffered because Julie just didn't know what to do with them and that's evident in Season 5 as well - even with The Originals gone a lot of the other characters are just there with no real purpose or story-lines of their own.
The best storyline Tyler ever had was his werewolf-arc in Season 2. But then Julie didn't want to have to deal with having an actual time-line of the show (Tyler turning into a wolf every month would have made her actually have to figure that out) so she turned him into a hybrid and sent him to off-screen land half the time because she didn't know what to do with him other than to make him Caroline's love interest. Jeremy had some good stuff in Season 1 & 2 but since then they haven't really known what to do with him either - his storyline about being a member of The Five wasn't even really about Jeremy at all - he was a plot device (just like Bonnie always is) and I think they should have just left him dead after Silas killed him because he had no purpose at all in Season 5 and Elena doesn't even care about him anymore.
1. That would totally ruin Stefan's character for me. For him to take Elena back after everything that has happened would make me lose all respect for Stefan. I think Stefan needs to find someone new (a non-doppelganger and not any other main character on the show - ie Caroline) and move on with his life. Elena needs to be single for a good while and figure herself out. She needs to get away from both Salvatores.
2. She's not going to do that I don't think. They thought about it back in Season 1 and considered making Matt's mom a succubus but they decided not to. I think in Season 6 we'll get to see another dimension though - wherever Bonnie & Damon ended up so that will expand the mythology.
3. Damon won't stay dead. She'd never kill off Stefan, Damon or Elena for good. Although I do think Jeremy & Bonnie should have both stayed dead when they died back in Season 4. Alaric also should have stayed dead. This season was absurd - Enzo, Stefan, Elena & Tyler all dying and coming back to life was so pointless.
4. Caroline needs an actual storyline - not a love interest. I don't know why the writers seem to be unable to do that but that's what needs to happen. I don't think Caroline would really fit in with what's going on over on TO so I don't want her to move over to that show. She would need a lot of character growth first.
5. I was hoping that in Season 4 Bonnie would go dark and become the antagonist of the group but that didn't happen. Damon is already the villain and has been since Season 1 - he's killed or tried to kill just about every member of their social circle.
All the characters are self-centered and care about their own personal experiences.
Caroline hates Damon because he raped and abused her. Stefan though has always been nice to her so she likes him and overlooked the fact that he terrorized Elena in Season 3 by forcing his blood down her throat and tried to drive her off a bridge (and in fact told Elena to ask him out on a date).
Elena only cares about how Damon treats her personally. She overlooks all the horrible things he's done to her family and friends (he's killed Vicki, Matt, Jeremy, Alaric, and John Gilbert and tried to kill Bonnie, Caroline, and Tyler).
Between Klaus and now Stefan, Caroline is not a very moral character. She said that the day she stopped criticizing Damon would be the day she was no longer best friends with Elena. I think Elena's friendships with both Caroline AND Bonnie were severed when they were best friends to Katherine for three weeks while she was possessing Elena. Bonnie literally called Katherine a friend at one point. No wonder Elena was clinging to Damon. She was losing everyone in her life because she couldn't get past the fact that they let it go on for three weeks.
I'm not sure I get your point. Of course Damon and Katerina were introduces as villains. I never said they weren't. But the difference between Damon and Klaus is, that Damon does have a purpose in the show. If you look in to the show and the books you see, that besides the obvious story (may it be Katerina plotting against Elena and the Salvatores, or Klaus killing Elenas friends for boredom, or Elena and Damon going to a Dark Dimension to save Stefan, …) it's always about Elena between the brothers. But beside that, Damons character changed and evolved naturally with the show. You could see in the early seasons that he liked to play the bad guy cause it was the easier way to get what you want and it was a reason to push everyone away to prevent from getting hurt. But deep down he tried to be better. He wanted to be good for Elena. Be someone she could love and deserved. He needed 3 seasons to change and he still has some slips. Him changing actually makes sense. But Klaus was forced to stay after his time was up. JP wanted to keep Klaus at all costs. That is the difference. I like the character of Klaus. And Joseph did a great job. I already posted in my other comments, that the Originals were great. But their time was up. They should have left when their time was up. But JP wanted to keep Klaus. She tried to pair him up with Caroline, she even tried to change his character an failed. She forced him into the show but had no idea what to do with him. So what did she do? She changed rules and made things up to justify him on the show. She used Elenas blood as reason for Klaus to come back every time he used up his supply, started a war between Klaus and the brothers. The daggers were working on other originals but hot on him (even before his wolf side was awakened), they find a way to kill originals but can't kill Klaus, cause that would kill his entire line, including our MF vamps, when Elena turned and he had NO reason to stay, a cure shows up, … THAT is what I have problems with. JP changed the entire show to justify Klaus. And it has nothing to do with him being a villain. So you think that after everything he did they should have just let him go? Walk away? Do as he pleases? Ok: he kills your friends for no other reason that fun, he kills your family just to hurt you before killing you (Jenna), he kills you, he threatens and tortures the people you love … Would you just let him go? Keep on doing as he pleases? And even give a blood donation every time he shows up and kills one or two of your friends just to show you you can't fight him? Or would you do anything in your power to stop him? Why is everyone so eager to forget what this psycho did?!? I absolutely agree. Not introducing the originals was the problem. But forcing them (Klaus) into the show. I don't know if she just lost interest in those characters or had no idea what she's doing (I think it's the second. Which is evident in the fact that she's making things up as she goes with no sense of logic.), but she ruined the show. Agree on Ty. He was best on S2. Yeah, JP seems to have a problem with the timeline. As far as I know we had just one Halloween and two birthdays. Three. Elena, Stefan and Caroline. No Christmas, no thanksgiving, … A good producer would have no problem with a timeline. Jeremy was great in S1-3. Don't let me start on Bonnie. She was great in S1 and partly S2. But then she became so stupid, naïve and weak I could kill her.
It's weird how a lot of the issues here involve the Originals or some ship. I agree that Klaus shouldn't have been given so many new storylines if he wasn't going to stay on the show. He should have been given his spin-off or his exit a lot sooner. I especially didn't appreciate that Elijah's character was brought on TVD and indicated as a possible love interest for Elena, and no one considered any chance of scheduling conflict with Daniel Gillies. That was a very simple issue that shouldn't have been overlooked.
There's already a blonde on TO who empathizes with Klaus on some days, and puts him down and wants to destroy him on others. Her name is Cami, and I'm sure it won't be long before she hooks up with Klaus and beats herself up over it.
"Bring back Stelena!" "Bring back Delena!" "Stefan is too good for Elena!" "Damon killed everyone Elena cares about!" I agree with that last one. Elena isn't innocent, but Stefan and Damon have tortured and killed a lot more people, and are capable of much worse things, than Elena would ever be. Stefan needs to move on from Elena, but not with people in her life or people who have seriously hurt her. He needs to leave, or she needs to leave him for good. Of course that would mean the end of the show. At least Damon knew when to take his exit, not that I cared for Delena at all. I was a Delena shipper during Season 2.
Someone new should have been brought in a long time ago for Stefan. As for Elena, I believe a single Elena is an invitation for mayhem. She'll probably end up in bed with Enzo. If the EPs pair Caroline up with Enzo to try to fulfill some kind of fantasy for Klaroline shippers, I will not be able to stop gagging.
If Elena would have died in the crash, Klaus would never know of her existence. Remind me please. Why was Katerina in MF in S1? If she said it, I forgot. Was she there for one of the brothers, or for Elena? I can perfectly imagine her checking on her "family" every decade or two. Just waiting for a doppelganger she can throw at Klaus feet. But if she was there for Elena and even if she would know that Elena was a doppelganger, I doubt she would have the balls to go to Klaus and tell him the last doppelganger was dead. Elena is/was after all the last human in the Petrova line.
I don't think Elijah was ever intended to actually be a love interest for Elena. I think Elena's cannon love interest were only ever supposed to be the Salvatore Brothers - the entire show is formed around that love triangle.
Please, don't get me wrong. Damon raped Caroline, he fed off her, he used and abused her, manipulated her, … And it was absolutely wrong. Of course she has every right to hate him. My problem is not, that Caroline hates Damon. I would too. My problem is, that what Klaus did was even worse. But she seems to forget that. He tried to kill her 2 or 3 times (he ordered her boyfriend to kill her on her birthday, for Christs sake), killed her friends, threatened her friends (the one he hasn't killed), and for most of his killings he had no other reason than boredom. Isn't she saying Elena is her best friend? What about what he did to Elena? Bud she forgets all that and fucks him?!?! She uses one set for rules for Damon and one set for Klaus. THAT is what pisses me off. And don't forget, that Damon actually changed. Klaus didn't. I'm not saying, that because Damon changed all he did is forgotten. I didn't. And neither did Elena. Even if you thing she did. But Elena saw the good in him and encouraged it. Even if no one else did, not even his brother. When did Damon kill Matt? Or do you mean S4 when he used it to bring Elena back? It was part of the plan. Matt was wearing the ring. So did Jeremy but it's still unclear if he saw the ring or not. I doubt it, but t's possible he did. Alaric was self-defense. Alaric attacked Damon and he was defending himself. In your next comment you're referring to S5. Sorry, haven't seen it so I can't say anything on it.
Klaus never killed Elena's friends out of boredom because that's not why Klaus kills people. Damon is the vampire who goes around killing people because he's bored.
For me Damon needed to change because it was something Damon wanted to do for himself. The fact that he only did it for Elena and the second she's gone he reverts to his old ways is not a good thing at all and I don't consider that to be character progression at all. He used to be obsessed with Katherine and then he just moved onto Elena - but he didn't really grow as a person or change.
We've never seen Klaus rape anyone. Both he and Damon are murdered, but only Damon is a rapist as far as we know.
Damon tried to kill Caroline twice. Once he was going to drain her of her blood and the only reason she survived was that Stefan had spiked her drink with vervain. The first thing Damon tried to do when Caroline because a vampire was drive a stake though her heart.
Klaus used Caroline & Tyler as bait (since Katherine suggested he sacrifice them) but they were total strangers to him at the time. He then had Tyler to bite her to prove a point and to strike at Stefan (who had gone off the rails and was holding Klaus' family hostage). He didn't do it out of boredom - he did it because he wanted his family back and Stefan was holding them hostage.
From what we saw of Damon in Season 5 - killing people for fun (ie Aaron), wiping out the Whitmore family line, etc... I don't think he's changed at all.
It doesn't matter why he killed Matt. They know the side-effects of dying with that ring from Alaric so he's risking turning Matt into a serial killer and he was over the line for Damon to kill Matt (for me). Damon stated he had no idea Jeremy was wearing the ring in Seaosn 2 - he didn't see it.
OK. Maybe not boredom. But for fun. Most of the people he killed to get to Elena? He didn't need to kill them. Elena was ready to cooperate. But he was still killing and threatening. And what about Jenna? He could have used any vamp in the world for the ritual. He could have turned any human. Why Jenna? To torture Elena before he kills her. I don't know how you call that. I call it highly psychotic. Yes, Damon wanted to change. And that brings me to Buffy. In S3 Gilles said, that there are two kinds of monsters. The one, that can be saved and most important wants to be saved. The other is lacking any kind of humanity and can't be saved. Damon maybe was possessed with Katerina. He thought she loved him. And he was driven to Elena because she looked like Katerina. So was Stefan. Damon changed for her. Cause he wanted to be someone she could love. He reverts to his old ways? When S5 again? Sorry. Didn't watch it. But it's not surprising. Elena was the one good thing that happened in his life since he became a vampire about 150 years ago. He changed for her and made himself vulnerable. So it's not surprising me.
Yes, but other male characters come along periodically who treat Elena better, and it's a relief to see her care about someone who isn't named Salvatore. Aaron Whitmore was great. What Damon did to him is the reason I'm glad the season ended the way it did. I don't think Delena will continue. Now that I think about it, Stefan and Damon have both had other love interests in past seasons, however in the short-term. Elena could have had other potential love interests, too.
That's not who Elena is though. She could have just stayed with Matt if she wanted a good guy that really cared about her. Elena sort of bonded with Aaron over their dead parents but Elena never really cared about Aaron and didn't care that Damon killed him. Elena only really cares about herself and the Salvatores and if she was going to remove them from her life it would have already happened.
All vampires enjoy killing people but Klaus killed them for specific reasons.
Elijah flat out told Stefan & Bonnie that Klaus took Jenna as punishment for their meddling. Had the Salvatores not gotten in the middle of Klaus' family drama and his plan to break the hybrid curse he probably would not have killed Jenna. Elena may have been willing to cooperate but what Klaus saw was the Salvatores trying to interfere so he probably assumed Elena was in on it as well.
Actually that's the plan for the end of the series. Julie Plec and Kevin Williamson decided together years ago how to have Elena walk away from the Salvatore brothers, and how to separate them from each other. Julie Plec was asked recently if the plan has changed. She said all that's changed is that someone who was supposed to be a ghost will have to be something else.
I personally don't think Klaus would compel someone to sleep with him. Klaus has a big enough ego that I just don't think he'd stoop that low. I certainly don't remember him every compelling Caroline into bed or even considering it. He wanted to make sure that she wanted him so he waited for her to decide she wanted to sleep with him.
Damon killed a whole slew of people in the first two seasons for the fun of it. Caroline kills one guy and she deserves to die but Stefan (The Ripper of Monterrey) and Damon deserve to live?
Klaus was using Caroline & Tyler as bait. He told Damon he knew that one of the Salvatores were going to rescue them and try and stop him so he needed them to have someone to rescue. I think Klaus was always planning on sacrificing Jules and then decided on Jenna.
But yes - Klaus kills loves ones as revenge and we've known that since Season 2 when Katherine told them that. It's why he killed Jenna, it's why he killed Katherine's parents and left her alive, and it's why he killed Carol Lockwood and left Tyler alive.
Because Damon opened the tomb and exposed that she wasn't in it. Katherine tried to fake her death in 1864 but once Damon opened the tomb and realized she wasn't in there she came back to Mystic Falls intending to hand Elena, a werewolf (Mason, and then Tyler after Damon killed Mason), a vampire (Caroline), and a witch (Bonnie) over to Klaus so he could break the curse.
She had been stalking Stefan for decades but she never made contact with him and he believed her to be dead.
Damon and Klaus are equally corrupt. Klaus is the Damon of The Originals, worse in some ways but nicer in others. Damon finally found redemption when he sacrificed himself because that was the only way to redeem him. Since undoing that wouldn't be good for his character, I think it's safe to say that TVD will be ending after 1 or 2 more seasons.
I can't imagine what Klaus' redemption would be at this point. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't involve controlling a major city, though. He'll have to give that up eventually, and he'll probably lose a few things important to him along the way. When Klaus no longer wants power and glory but honestly wants to do good for the city, he'll be redeemable.
Stefan and Elena need to get back together before the end of the series or seasons 1-3 won't even matter. The writers have managed to completely wreck Stelena. Congrats Julie and Caroline. I don't want Caroline to go to The Originals because of some shipping term. I want her to go, because she has so much more potential there then just magically falling in love with Stefan. I don't consider Damon a villain. He's an antihero.
To me Stelena always is and always will be endgame for the series. About the Damon "dying", I think he's going to become a guardian/angel. Bonnie needs to stay dead. She's outlived her stay ever since she became the anchor. This show has a problem with the inability to let go of main characters,
They can't just pretend like Seasons 4 & 5 never happened. I don't want to ever see Stefan get back with Elena after what she did to him. She had feelings for Damon for a while and she even kissed Damon while she was still with Stefan. Elena & Stefan broke up in 4x06 and Elena turned around and jumped into bed with Damon the very next episode. I don't think Stefan should ever take her back after that. I want to see Stefan find someone new who won't be into his brother because I'm so tired women (Katherine, Elena, and even Rebekah) bed-hopping between the two of them.
Caroline certainly has on blinders when it comes to Stefan. It's the same problem that Elena had. They really just don't see how awful Stefan can be - but for some reason they're able to recognize the bad that Klaus & Damon do. I do think Stefan presents himself as being the "good brother" and that Elena bought into that in the first three seasons (maybe she even still does) and Caroline has always bought into it because Stefan has never personally harmed her the way Damon did.
Stefan is the biggest loose cannon because he just goes off the rails and starts ripping people to shreds - he jumps from one extreme to the other and both Caroline & Elena have always been in denial when it comes to Stefan's Ripper half (which is a big part of who he is). They never really want to talk about how Stefan killed an entire village of people for the fun of it.
Assuming means not knowing. And besides, Klaus killed a couple of Elenas friends and threatened the rest of them to make sure she cooperate. He probably wanted to punish Damon and couldn't find him.
Why wouldn't Klaus compel someone to sleep with him? He's used to get what he wants. If not, he kills. What happened, when Becca wanted to leave him? She was at his side for over 900 years. Then she finds someone he loves and wants to be with him, even for a short while. And what did Klaus do? He daggered her and put her in a coffin for 90 years. What did he do, when his mother put a curse on him? He killed her. Klaus is using to get what he wants without hesitation. So he is absolutely capable of compelling someone into bed. Just because we didn't see him do it, doesn't mean he didn't. The reason he didn't used it on Caroline is, that he likes her. And JP wanted to make him more likable to the fans. She wanted him to stay at all costs. And after all the innocent people he killed she didn't want him to be also a rapist. I see that you're a huge Klaus fan. You try so hard to defend him. You didn't even answer my question from one of my comments. What would you do if Klaus shows up and kills your friends and family? Let him walk away and give blood donations so can keep on building his army of zombie hybrids? Or fight him, try to kill him? At the end you admitted that he kills entire families for revenge. Jules and Jenna were a backup plan. He planned on going with Ty and Carolne. Jules was his backup plan. And Jenna. Didn't he said you always need a backup plan?
As far as I know the cast signed for 6 seasons. And as far as I know they already said that none of them will sign again. What is it telling you, if the cast doesn't want to continue the show? Right: The show sucks. Too bad. The show had great potential. There is no redemption for Klaus. Cause that would mean he has to change. And that would mean he won't get anything he wants, and he can't kill for the fun of it. He won't be able to give that up.
Season 2 for me. That was back when the Klaus storyline was new, unfortunately they dragged it out too long with Season 3 and into Season 4. But Season 2 was just amazing, I loved that Katherine was brought into the forefront more, they finally gave Caroline more of a storyline, Bonnie was more badass (but still only there for everyone else's benefit, that will never change.)
For me: Season 2 Season 1 Season 4 Season 3 Season 5
Stefan changed in Season 5, though. He's no longer traumatized, but he still didn't put up a fight like he would have in the past if someone was about to kill a human doppelganger because of him. Stefan is starting to put himself before other people, valuing his life before anyone else's, whether or not they're innocent. He can't go from one extreme to another anymore because he's no longer at any extreme. Even with his humanity, he cares about as much about human life as Caroline does. In a way, they're a good match, but I think the status of Caroline and Elena's friendship should be addressed more thoroughly before Stefan and Caroline even hook up. Right now everything is too murky. It seems like it might still be wrong for those two to be together. I'm glad Caroline Dries said that they're going to make this relationship evolve very, very slowly.
Stefan really didn't care about Aaron Whitmore (and was ready to kill him himself in 5x10) or any of the people Damon & Enzo killed so I don't think he really valued human lives in Season 5.
He also didn't have an issue with the way Elena killed Jesse (only Caroline realized that it was wrong and they could have helped him - like they helped Damon & Elena when the same thing happened to them).
I just told you why he wouldn't compel someone to bed - his ego is too big.
Rebekah has not been on Klaus' side for 900 years. Even back in 1114 she chose a vampire hunter over Klaus (who was trying to kill her entire family), Rebekah also tried to have Klaus killed in 1919. Klaus daggered Rebekah in the 1920s because she wanted to run back to where Mikael was instead of away from him.
We really didn't see the circumstances of Esther's death - but that was back when he was first turned. The first thing Stefan did as a vampire was kill his father, the first thing Caroline did was kill that poor innocent carnival worker. I suspect that when Esther rejected Klaus and disowned him as her son and put the curse on him that he just lost it just as Stefan lost control and killed his father.
"At the end you admitted that he kills entire families for revenge." I said STEFAN wiped out an entire village. We have no evidence that Klaus has done that - but we know for a fact that Stefan has.
I don't have much time, sorry. It's late and I have to get up early, so I'll make it quick. Why are you keep on defending Klaus? He does have a huge ego. He always gets what he wants. That is why he would never, or rarely allow a woman to turn him down. Becca did had sex with that hunter. But she didn't left Klaus for him, or planed on doing so. The family lived together in a house at that time and the hunters were their guests. And it was Klaus idea to get closer to the hunters. He was curious and wanted informations. The guy was hot and Becca welcomed the chance to have some fun. I can't remember that Becca tried to get Klaus killed. Was it in Originals? Haven't watch it. But in the 1920s she wanted to go with Stefan. Klaus didn't want her to go so he put her away for 90 years. Why would she go back to her father? He tried to kill her. In the bar or club or whatever. Klaus wanted to run, but she wanted to go to Stefan. So it's ok if Klaus slips and kills after he turned, but it's not ok with Stefan? Besides the circumstances were completely different. Stefan was defending himself when his father tried to kill him (again). He was stronger than he expected and is father got hurt. His father was bleeding and Stefans instinct to take the blood and complete the transition was too strong after he saw and smelled the blood. He and Damon already decided to die. Stefan just wanted to say goodbye to his father. We don't know how long Klaus was a vamp before he killed his mother. Days, weeks, maybe months? From Beccas memories we know, that their mother made them the rings. And the people were already suspicious and avoided them feared them. So I'd say that at least a couple of weeks passed. And he killed his mom not by accident, or because he lost control cause he couldn't control his bloodlust. From what we know he killed her for putting the curse on him. We don't know if Klaus whipped out an entire village. But he whipped out the entire Petrova family. Why? Katerina messed up his plans and run away. He couldn't find her, so he killed her entire family. Yeah, riper Stefan is bad news. But as long as he stays away from human blood he's okay. Klaus is always bad news.
Elena's greatest fear is that she would turn out like Katherine, but the thing is it was bound to happen. She led Stefan and Damon on and now one of them will get their heart broken when Elena makes her final decision.
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
Season 2.
ReplyDeleteIf it were possible, I'd say the "season" that lapsed from the second half of Season 1 to the first half of Season 2. Katherine as the Big Bad was amazing. And then they neutered her to torture us endlessly with Klaus. *sigh*
ReplyDeleteWell season 2, but accidentally voted for 5th :(
ReplyDeletes2
ReplyDeleteseason 2, surprised so many people think so too, I'm usually in the minority in the fandom
ReplyDeleteSeason 2 by a mile
ReplyDeleteSeason 2, undoubtely! That's when the show peaked, and everything went downhill from there. Season 5 is definitely the worst, I hope the writers turn it all around. No more Delena, no more killing beloved characters like Katherine and new dynamics, please!
ReplyDeleteThis is how it goes for me:
1 - Season 2
2 - Season 1
3 - Season 3
4 - Season 4
5 - Season 5
Season 1, 2 and 3 were great.Since Elena become vampire and Delena happened, the show went down.. the writers didn't make a good job for season 4 and 5 . Let's hope season 6 will be better or it may be the least...
ReplyDeleteSeason 2 by far. I think season 5 is by far the most awful!!!
ReplyDeleteSeason 2 and it has kept going downhill...FAST.
ReplyDeleteThose 10 people who voted S5 probably need to see a doctor. That Season ruined whole show and every single character
ReplyDeleteI think I liked Season 2 the best. Season 1 was also good. I stopped watching for a while during Season 3 because I couldn't stand all of the scenes between Klaus and Caroline. He had more scenes with her than with Elena, who was the reason he was still around with his hybrids at that time. Season 4 was really bad. I'm guessing even the EPs want to forget that one. I'd say the show picked up a little in the final arc of Season 5 because we finally got to see the end of resurrections and resurrection rings. I don't know if or how Damon will be brought back, but we were promised that there will be no more complete resurrections because the dead are where witches aren't supposed to or are unable to bother them.
ReplyDeleteI liked 4. I love how as in the Start it was Stefan who caused the people he 'loved' to become Vampires. Ie it was Stefan in the start who cause Damon to turn, Damon wanted to die otherwise but Stefan didnt want to be left alone. And then when it came to rescue Elena, he picked the wrong person because.. thats who he is. Of course he didnt know about the Vampire blood in the system. Still I think it was a good throwback to the earlier storyline.
ReplyDeleteIm a little meh on Katherine. She works best when not used much, and then completely degenerated when she was used too much.
Season 1 is my favorite. I really loved the brothers' dynamic.
ReplyDelete2 &3
ReplyDeleteYeihh, my poll was selected :P for me is season 2
ReplyDeleteAnd then season 4,3,5,1.
Season 2 \o
ReplyDeleteDefinitely season 2,i miss those amazing episode quality!! Please come back kevin williamson ASAP,these two fangirl-julie and caroline are destroying TVD!!
ReplyDeleteSeason 2...hands down. The premiere was fantastic.The introduction of Katherine Pierce was incredible!
ReplyDeleteMust be the Delena fans!
ReplyDeleteI agree, season 2!
ReplyDeleteS2. S3 was good too but the Klaroline crap ruined part of it for me. S4 wasn't good but it wasn't boring. S5 was a mess (and I prefer DE over SE but I don't ship anyone in this show) and the only good thing was Enzo.
ReplyDeletethe early seasons were far and away the best for me, especially S2 - this past season was not good - so much so that I'm considering giving up the show altogether... we'll see come fall
ReplyDeleteHands down S2. It's the only season I can still go back to to view certain all-time favourite TVD scenes. S1 was good but the show was still establishing itself and while I loved aspects of S3 as well, the downward spiral of Elena's character halfway through and diluting Stefan and Damon's bromance, which for me was always the heart and soul of the show, didn't sit well with me. 3-4 episodes into S4 I stopped watching the series so can't comment on what's happened in the past two years.
ReplyDeleteHands down...season 2
ReplyDelete2 season because Elijah was introduced in it.
ReplyDeleteI was about to drop the show and then finally they brought in an ancient unkillable wordly-wise vampire. And then of course his brother Klaus came along. If it wasn't for the Original family i would have dropped the whole Stelena vs Delena a long time ago.
Season 1 and Season 2 hands down.
ReplyDeleteYeah , like any drama show.. Problem follows problem!
ReplyDeleteSeason 2 was flawless, season 1 and season 3 great, season 4 bad but season 5 was the worst ever, gave up on the show after this season.
ReplyDeleteI thought season 3 did a better job overall with the Originals storyline. Everything tied up real nicely in end. Season 2 was a close second, I loved the whole sacrifice storyline and Katherine. Here's my rankings
ReplyDeleteSeason 3
Season 2
Season 1
Season 4
Season 5
Here's my thoughts on how to make Season 6 better.
1. Bring Stelena Back!!!
No one likes Delena. That whole thing is toxic. One of the many reasons season 2 was great was because of Stelena. There was once a period in this show where Delena was needed. That period is now gone. Stelena is needed in this show to return it to it's former glory.
2. Introduce a Mythology not Connected to Vampires, Werewolves, Witches etc.
One of the many reasons viewers dipped in season 4 and 5 is because they complicated things with adding details that made everything confusing for the viewers. Teen Wolf season 3 was so great because they took a detour from the werewolf/kanima mythology and went into Druids and Kitsunes.
3. Permanent Deaths!!
This had been said so many times so I won't go to much into it. I just hope at least Bonnie or Damon stays dead.
4. Caroline needs to go to The Originals
Caroline has just been kinda stuck ever since she broke up with Tyler. The writers gave her a solution by suddenly have her fall madly in love with Stefan. No. Caroline would get so much better writing on The Originals
5. A Formidable Villain
In my eyes ever since Elena turned into a vampire the villains (expect for Silas and very slight maybe for Markos) all played second ball to the main characters. They have a whole book series to take ideas from. Another solution would be to turn a main character completely bad.
I hoped you enjoyed my little insight. I just hope the writers get off their lazy asses and make something worth seeing.
S1 and S2. The show was good back then. With S3 it's going down. JP ruined the show completely.
ReplyDeleteNot with introducing Klaus (he was a great villain), but when she became incapable of letting him go (send him away, kill him, whatever).
JP wanted to keep him at all costs. And the price was the quality of the show. With forcing Klaus to become regular and with all that loopholes (obviously she had no idea what she was doing. She thought of something she thought was a good idea and did it. Without any sense of logic) she completely ruined the show.
I loved the show in S1 and 2. 3 was partly ok. 4 was hard to watch. I didn't even watched S5. And from what I heard I didn't miss much.
Agree. With Klaus becoming regular the show was going down.
ReplyDeleteTrust me honey. The show going down had nothing to do with Elena turning or with Delena.
ReplyDeleteBut with JP having no idea what she's doing.
Hey! I am a Delena fan. And I would never chose S4 or S5 (and those were actually season where they were together). I didn't even watch S5 because this show sadly
ReplyDeletebecame a waste of my time. S1 and 2 were great. S3 was acceptable. But since Klaus became regular, JP was systematically ruining this great show. She was making things up as she went and every nonsense she explained with "natural loophole" or "magical loophole". She totally ruined the show. And it was not because of the Delena relationship. Since you assume that only Delena fans voted for S5 I assume it has a lot of Delena elements. As I said, I haven't seen it.
Oh, don't get me start on Caroline and Klaus. Caroline is such a hypocritical bitch. For 3 season (4 now) she hates Damon for what he did to her, she won't forgive him and gives Elena lectures for being with him. And don't get me wrong, what Damon did to Caroline was wrong. But how can she hate Damon for what happened in S1 and ignore what Klaus did in S3 and 4? To her, her friends, the people in MF. Klaus is responsible for most of the deaths in S3 and S4. And sill She funks Klaus and hates Damon … That is why I Lost any respect I had for her (Caroline).
ReplyDeleteActually, without Stefan coming to MF, Elena would be dead. It was Stefan who saved her in the crash that killed her parents.
ReplyDeleteSeason 1 for me, without doubt. Season 2 was okay but after a bearable season 3, this show died for me.
ReplyDeleteCaroline doesn't fit the Originals at all. She would only go there to judge everyone and hold Klaus back. Also I couldn't care less about Klaus ships.
ReplyDeleteI think the spin off should have happened after S3. S4 was a mess because they didn't know how to include The Originals in the main storyline.
ReplyDeleteSeason 2, mainly for the first 7 episodes where Katherine played the game better than anyone else.
ReplyDelete"They didn't know how to include The Originals in the main storyline"
ReplyDeleteI think it's partly true. In S2 Klaus was the perfect villain. And everything made
sense, although it's true that sometimes the story was developing too slowly in S1 and 2. But with S3 the show was going down. I always say the Originals were great. They came, they killed and it was their time to leave. But JP seemed to miss the last part. It was obvious, that she was too close to the character of
Klaus. She wanted him on the show. She brought in his entire family to bring us
closer to the character, she started a romance between him and Caroline to make
him more human and more likable (not that bought it for a sec). All good and fine. But it started to show in S3, that she was making things up, breaking rules, just to justify keeping him. She used Elenas blood as reason for Klaus to come back every time he used up his supply, started a war between Klaus and the brothers. Then it got more and more ridiculous. The daggers were working on other originals but hot on him (even before his wolf side was awakened), they find a way to kill originals but can't kill Klaus, cause that would kill his entire line, including our MF vamps, when Elena turned and he had NO reason to stay, a cure shows up, …
JP fucked it up. Not with the originals (I actually liked them. But again the story was evolving too slow). But when she was unable to let Klaus go. The Original family was great. But they should have left in the middle of S3, but JP wanted Klaus. So she ruined the show just to keep him. Great work JP!
To tell you the truth, when I first heard of the spin-off I thought: Great! We finally
finally get rid of Klaus and maybe this shit that became TVD can again be the great show it was in the beginning. Guess I was wrong. As I hear it, S5 is even
worse than S4. Glad I didn't waste my time on it.
"They didn't know how to include The Originals in the main storyline"
ReplyDeleteI think it's partly true. In S2 Klaus was the perfect villain. And everything made sense, although it's true that sometimes the story was developing too slowly in S1 and 2. But with S3 the show was going down. I always say the Originals were great. They came, they killed and it was their time to leave. But JP seemed to miss the last part. It was obvious, that she was too close to the character of Klaus. She wanted him on the show. She brought in his entire family to bring us closer to the character, she started a romance between him and Caroline to make him more human and more likable (not that bought it for a sec). All good and fine. But it started to show in S3, that she was making things up, breaking rules, just to justify keeping him. She used Elenas blood as reason for Klaus to come back every time he used up his supply, started a war between Klaus and the brothers. Then it got more and more ridiculous. The daggers were working on other originals but hot on him (even before his wolf side was awakened), they find a way to kill originals but can't kill Klaus, cause that would kill his entire line, including our MF vamps, when Elena turned and he had NO reason to stay, a cure shows up, …
JP fucked it up. Not with the originals (I actually liked them. But again the story was
evolving too slow). But when she was unable to let Klaus go. The Original family was great. But they should have left in the middle of S3, but JP wanted Klaus. So she ruined the show just to keep him. Great work JP!
To tell you the truth, when I first heard of the spin-off I thought: Great! We finally
finally get rid of Klaus and maybe this shit that became TVD can again be the great show it was in the beginning. Guess I was wrong. As I hear it, S5 is even worse than S4. Glad I didn't waste my time on it.
Exactly. Caroline is the biggest hypocrite in this show and I can't believe everytime somebody defends her like she did no wrong and she has every right to give Elena a hard time for being with Damon when Klaus made Elena's life a living hell. I don't care if you love or hate Delena, Caroline is still the biggest hypocrite in this show.
ReplyDeleteDidn't see this till now, sorry.
ReplyDeleteKlaroline crap? Couldn't agree more, honey!
I always hated them. It was just an attempt of JP to make him more likable. In S2 Caroline became a fan favorite. And I guess, JP thought, pairing Klaus with her would make him more likable and also a favorite. In some eps you even see that JP tried to change his character. He was open and gentle with Caroline, he was nice and charming, … and in the next ep he killed 5 or 10 innocents cause he felt like it. Not only it didn't work, and showed obviously that JP didn't know what she wanted to do with the character, it also ruined Carolines character.
Sorry if you see it differently, but I really began to hate her. She became such a hypocrite. Even in S4 (and probably in S5 too) she hated Damon for what he did to her in S1. Remember the scene she made when she found out that Elena was sleeping with Damon? Don't get me wrong, what he did was wrong. But how can she, even after all this time, hate Damon for what happened, and forget what Klaus did to her and her friends just weeks or months ago. She even fucked Klaus. I mean … This guy almost killed her 2 or 3 times, he killed her friends, turned Tyler (he could have killed him), killed innocents for no other reason than boredom. And still she fucks Klaus and still hates Damon. It makes no sense.
I'm Delena fan. Since the beginning. Stelena is boring.
ReplyDeleteAnd I posted just minutes ago that I liked Caroline. She was great (after she turned). But since JP paired her up with Klaus I lost all respect I had for her.
Season 2.
ReplyDeleteDamon & Katherine were also introduced villains and Damon continues to be a main character. I don't really see Klaus as being any different - I never had an issue with him being a main character because almost all the characters on the show are villains (IMO). I hated the 100 plots to try to kill Klaus because it got to the point that I didn't even understand why they wanted him dead. I thought what they should have dropped that in Season 3 once the curse was broken because he no longer had any interest in killing Elena or her friends and that seems to be the only thing the MFG cares about.
ReplyDeleteI don't really think introducing The Originals was the problem - I think that the real issue was that Julie lost interest in a lot of the other characters like Bonnie, Tyler & Jeremy. I think Kevin Williamson cared more about them than Julie did so when he left the show their characters suffered because Julie just didn't know what to do with them and that's evident in Season 5 as well - even with The Originals gone a lot of the other characters are just there with no real purpose or story-lines of their own.
The best storyline Tyler ever had was his werewolf-arc in Season 2. But then Julie didn't want to have to deal with having an actual time-line of the show (Tyler turning into a wolf every month would have made her actually have to figure that out) so she turned him into a hybrid and sent him to off-screen land half the time because she didn't know what to do with him other than to make him Caroline's love interest. Jeremy had some good stuff in Season 1 & 2 but since then they haven't really known what to do with him either - his storyline about being a member of The Five wasn't even really about Jeremy at all - he was a plot device (just like Bonnie always is) and I think they should have just left him dead after Silas killed him because he had no purpose at all in Season 5 and Elena doesn't even care about him anymore.
1. That would totally ruin Stefan's character for me. For him to take Elena back after everything that has happened would make me lose all respect for Stefan. I think Stefan needs to find someone new (a non-doppelganger and not any other main character on the show - ie Caroline) and move on with his life. Elena needs to be single for a good while and figure herself out. She needs to get away from both Salvatores.
ReplyDelete2. She's not going to do that I don't think. They thought about it back in Season 1 and considered making Matt's mom a succubus but they decided not to. I think in Season 6 we'll get to see another dimension though - wherever Bonnie & Damon ended up so that will expand the mythology.
3. Damon won't stay dead. She'd never kill off Stefan, Damon or Elena for good. Although I do think Jeremy & Bonnie should have both stayed dead when they died back in Season 4. Alaric also should have stayed dead. This season was absurd - Enzo, Stefan, Elena & Tyler all dying and coming back to life was so pointless.
4. Caroline needs an actual storyline - not a love interest. I don't know why the writers seem to be unable to do that but that's what needs to happen. I don't think Caroline would really fit in with what's going on over on TO so I don't want her to move over to that show. She would need a lot of character growth first.
5. I was hoping that in Season 4 Bonnie would go dark and become the antagonist of the group but that didn't happen. Damon is already the villain and has been since Season 1 - he's killed or tried to kill just about every member of their social circle.
All the characters are self-centered and care about their own personal experiences.
ReplyDeleteCaroline hates Damon because he raped and abused her. Stefan though has always been nice to her so she likes him and overlooked the fact that he terrorized Elena in Season 3 by forcing his blood down her throat and tried to drive her off a bridge (and in fact told Elena to ask him out on a date).
Elena only cares about how Damon treats her personally. She overlooks all the horrible things he's done to her family and friends (he's killed Vicki, Matt, Jeremy, Alaric, and John Gilbert and tried to kill Bonnie, Caroline, and Tyler).
Klaus would have had her resurrected just so he could kill her again.
ReplyDeleteBetween Klaus and now Stefan, Caroline is not a very moral character. She said that the day she stopped criticizing Damon would be the day she was no longer best friends with Elena. I think Elena's friendships with both Caroline AND Bonnie were severed when they were best friends to Katherine for three weeks while she was possessing Elena. Bonnie literally called Katherine a friend at one point. No wonder Elena was clinging to Damon. She was losing everyone in her life because she couldn't get past the fact that they let it go on for three weeks.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I get your point. Of course Damon and Katerina were introduces as
ReplyDeletevillains. I never said they weren't. But the difference between Damon and Klaus is, that Damon does have a purpose in the show. If you look in to the show and the books you see, that besides the obvious story (may it be Katerina plotting against Elena and the Salvatores, or Klaus killing Elenas friends for boredom, or Elena and Damon going to a Dark Dimension to save Stefan, …) it's always about Elena between the brothers. But beside that, Damons character changed and evolved naturally with the show. You could see in the early seasons that he liked to play the bad guy cause it was the easier way to get what you want and it was a reason to push everyone away to prevent from getting hurt. But deep down he tried to be better. He wanted to be good for Elena. Be someone she could love and deserved. He needed 3 seasons to change and he still has some slips. Him changing actually makes sense. But Klaus was forced to stay after his time was up. JP wanted to keep Klaus at all costs. That is the difference. I like the character of Klaus. And Joseph did a great job. I already posted in my other comments, that the Originals were great. But their time was up. They should have left when their time was up. But JP wanted to keep Klaus. She tried to pair him up with Caroline, she even tried to change his character an failed. She forced him into the show but had no idea what to do with him. So what did she do? She changed rules and made things up to justify him on the show. She used Elenas blood as reason for Klaus to come back every time he used up his supply, started a war between Klaus and the brothers. The daggers were working on other originals but hot on him (even before his wolf side was awakened), they find a way to kill originals but can't kill Klaus, cause that would kill his entire
line, including our MF vamps, when Elena turned and he had NO reason to stay, a
cure shows up, …
THAT is what I have problems with. JP changed the entire show to justify Klaus. And it has nothing to do with him being a villain.
So you think that after everything he did they should have just let him go? Walk away? Do as he pleases? Ok: he kills your friends for no other reason that fun, he
kills your family just to hurt you before killing you (Jenna), he kills you, he threatens and tortures the people you love … Would you just let him go? Keep on doing as he pleases? And even give a blood donation every time he shows up and kills one or two of your friends just to show you you can't fight him? Or would you do anything in your power to stop him?
Why is everyone so eager to forget what this psycho did?!?
I absolutely agree. Not introducing the originals was the problem. But forcing them (Klaus) into the show.
I don't know if she just lost interest in those characters or had no idea what she's doing (I think it's the second. Which is evident in the fact that she's making things up as she goes with no sense of logic.), but she ruined the show.
Agree on Ty. He was best on S2. Yeah, JP seems to have a problem with the timeline. As far as I know we had just one Halloween and two birthdays. Three. Elena, Stefan and Caroline. No Christmas, no thanksgiving, … A good producer would have no problem with a timeline.
Jeremy was great in S1-3. Don't let me start on Bonnie. She was great in S1 and partly S2. But then she became so stupid, naïve and weak I could kill her.
It's weird how a lot of the issues here involve the Originals or some ship. I agree that Klaus shouldn't have been given so many new storylines if he wasn't going to stay on the show. He should have been given his spin-off or his exit a lot sooner. I especially didn't appreciate that Elijah's character was brought on TVD and indicated as a possible love interest for Elena, and no one considered any chance of scheduling conflict with Daniel Gillies. That was a very simple issue that shouldn't have been overlooked.
ReplyDeleteThere's already a blonde on TO who empathizes with Klaus on some days, and puts him down and wants to destroy him on others. Her name is Cami, and I'm sure it won't be long before she hooks up with Klaus and beats herself up over it.
"Bring back Stelena!" "Bring back Delena!" "Stefan is too good for Elena!" "Damon killed everyone Elena cares about!" I agree with that last one. Elena isn't innocent, but Stefan and Damon have tortured and killed a lot more people, and are capable of much worse things, than Elena would ever be. Stefan needs to move on from Elena, but not with people in her life or people who have seriously hurt her. He needs to leave, or she needs to leave him for good. Of course that would mean the end of the show. At least Damon knew when to take his exit, not that I cared for Delena at all. I was a Delena shipper during Season 2.
Someone new should have been brought in a long time ago for Stefan. As for Elena, I believe a single Elena is an invitation for mayhem. She'll probably end up in bed with Enzo. If the EPs pair Caroline up with Enzo to try to fulfill some kind of fantasy for Klaroline shippers, I will not be able to stop gagging.
If Elena would have died in the crash, Klaus would never know of her existence.
ReplyDeleteRemind me please. Why was Katerina in MF in S1? If she said it, I forgot. Was she there for one of the brothers, or for Elena? I can perfectly imagine her checking on her "family" every decade or two. Just waiting for a doppelganger she can throw at Klaus feet. But if she was there for Elena and even if she would know that Elena was a doppelganger, I doubt she would have the balls to go to Klaus and tell him the last doppelganger was dead. Elena is/was after all the last human in the Petrova line.
I don't think Elijah was ever intended to actually be a love interest for Elena. I think Elena's cannon love interest were only ever supposed to be the Salvatore Brothers - the entire show is formed around that love triangle.
ReplyDeletePlease, don't get me wrong. Damon raped Caroline, he fed off her, he used and abused her, manipulated her, … And it was absolutely wrong. Of course she has every right to hate him.
ReplyDeleteMy problem is not, that Caroline hates Damon. I would too. My problem is, that what Klaus did was even worse. But she seems to forget that. He tried to kill her 2 or 3 times (he ordered her boyfriend to kill her on her birthday, for Christs sake), killed her friends, threatened her friends (the one he hasn't killed), and for most of his killings he had no other reason than boredom. Isn't she saying Elena is her best friend? What about what he did to Elena? Bud she forgets all that and fucks him?!?!
She uses one set for rules for Damon and one set for Klaus. THAT is what pisses me off.
And don't forget, that Damon actually changed. Klaus didn't. I'm not saying, that because Damon changed all he did is forgotten. I didn't. And neither did Elena. Even if you thing she did. But Elena saw the good in him and encouraged it. Even if no one else did, not even his brother.
When did Damon kill Matt? Or do you mean S4 when he used it to bring Elena back? It was part of the plan. Matt was wearing the ring. So did Jeremy but it's still unclear if he saw the ring or not. I doubt it, but t's possible he did. Alaric was self-defense. Alaric attacked Damon and he was defending himself.
In your next comment you're referring to S5. Sorry, haven't seen it so I can't say anything on it.
Klaus never killed Elena's friends out of boredom because that's not why Klaus kills people. Damon is the vampire who goes around killing people because he's bored.
ReplyDeleteFor me Damon needed to change because it was something Damon wanted to do for himself. The fact that he only did it for Elena and the second she's gone he reverts to his old ways is not a good thing at all and I don't consider that to be character progression at all. He used to be obsessed with Katherine and then he just moved onto Elena - but he didn't really grow as a person or change.
We've never seen Klaus rape anyone. Both he and Damon are murdered, but only Damon is a rapist as far as we know.
ReplyDeleteDamon tried to kill Caroline twice. Once he was going to drain her of her blood and the only reason she survived was that Stefan had spiked her drink with vervain. The first thing Damon tried to do when Caroline because a vampire was drive a stake though her heart.
Klaus used Caroline & Tyler as bait (since Katherine suggested he sacrifice them) but they were total strangers to him at the time. He then had Tyler to bite her to prove a point and to strike at Stefan (who had gone off the rails and was holding Klaus' family hostage). He didn't do it out of boredom - he did it because he wanted his family back and Stefan was holding them hostage.
From what we saw of Damon in Season 5 - killing people for fun (ie Aaron), wiping out the Whitmore family line, etc... I don't think he's changed at all.
It doesn't matter why he killed Matt. They know the side-effects of dying with that ring from Alaric so he's risking turning Matt into a serial killer and he was over the line for Damon to kill Matt (for me). Damon stated he had no idea Jeremy was wearing the ring in Seaosn 2 - he didn't see it.
OK. Maybe not boredom. But for fun. Most of the people he killed to get to Elena? He didn't need to kill them. Elena was ready to cooperate. But he was still killing and threatening. And what about Jenna? He could have used any vamp in the world for the ritual. He could have turned any human. Why Jenna? To torture Elena before he kills her. I don't know how you call that. I call it highly psychotic.
ReplyDeleteYes, Damon wanted to change. And that brings me to Buffy. In S3 Gilles said, that there are two kinds of monsters. The one, that can be saved and most important wants to be saved. The other is lacking any kind of humanity and can't be saved.
Damon maybe was possessed with Katerina. He thought she loved him. And he was driven to Elena because she looked like Katerina. So was Stefan. Damon changed for her. Cause he wanted to be someone she could love.
He reverts to his old ways? When S5 again? Sorry. Didn't watch it. But it's not surprising. Elena was the one good thing that happened in his life since he became a vampire about 150 years ago. He changed for her and made himself vulnerable. So it's not surprising me.
Yes, but other male characters come along periodically who treat Elena better, and it's a relief to see her care about someone who isn't named Salvatore. Aaron Whitmore was great. What Damon did to him is the reason I'm glad the season ended the way it did. I don't think Delena will continue. Now that I think about it, Stefan and Damon have both had other love interests in past seasons, however in the short-term. Elena could have had other potential love interests, too.
ReplyDeleteThat's not who Elena is though. She could have just stayed with Matt if she wanted a good guy that really cared about her. Elena sort of bonded with Aaron over their dead parents but Elena never really cared about Aaron and didn't care that Damon killed him. Elena only really cares about herself and the Salvatores and if she was going to remove them from her life it would have already happened.
ReplyDeleteAll vampires enjoy killing people but Klaus killed them for specific reasons.
ReplyDeleteElijah flat out told Stefan & Bonnie that Klaus took Jenna as punishment for their meddling. Had the Salvatores not gotten in the middle of Klaus' family drama and his plan to break the hybrid curse he probably would not have killed Jenna. Elena may have been willing to cooperate but what Klaus saw was the Salvatores trying to interfere so he probably assumed Elena was in on it as well.
Actually that's the plan for the end of the series. Julie Plec and Kevin Williamson decided together years ago how to have Elena walk away from the Salvatore brothers, and how to separate them from each other. Julie Plec was asked recently if the plan has changed. She said all that's changed is that someone who was supposed to be a ghost will have to be something else.
ReplyDeleteI personally don't think Klaus would compel someone to sleep with him. Klaus has a big enough ego that I just don't think he'd stoop that low. I certainly don't remember him every compelling Caroline into bed or even considering it. He wanted to make sure that she wanted him so he waited for her to decide she wanted to sleep with him.
ReplyDeleteDamon killed a whole slew of people in the first two seasons for the fun of it. Caroline kills one guy and she deserves to die but Stefan (The Ripper of Monterrey) and Damon deserve to live?
Klaus was using Caroline & Tyler as bait. He told Damon he knew that one of the Salvatores were going to rescue them and try and stop him so he needed them to have someone to rescue. I think Klaus was always planning on sacrificing Jules and then decided on Jenna.
But yes - Klaus kills loves ones as revenge and we've known that since Season 2 when Katherine told them that. It's why he killed Jenna, it's why he killed Katherine's parents and left her alive, and it's why he killed Carol Lockwood and left Tyler alive.
We know for sure that Damon did not see the ring.
Because Damon opened the tomb and exposed that she wasn't in it. Katherine tried to fake her death in 1864 but once Damon opened the tomb and realized she wasn't in there she came back to Mystic Falls intending to hand Elena, a werewolf (Mason, and then Tyler after Damon killed Mason), a vampire (Caroline), and a witch (Bonnie) over to Klaus so he could break the curse.
ReplyDeleteShe had been stalking Stefan for decades but she never made contact with him and he believed her to be dead.
Damon and Klaus are equally corrupt. Klaus is the Damon of The Originals, worse in some ways but nicer in others. Damon finally found redemption when he sacrificed himself because that was the only way to redeem him. Since undoing that wouldn't be good for his character, I think it's safe to say that TVD will be ending after 1 or 2 more seasons.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine what Klaus' redemption would be at this point. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't involve controlling a major city, though. He'll have to give that up eventually, and he'll probably lose a few things important to him along the way. When Klaus no longer wants power and glory but honestly wants to do good for the city, he'll be redeemable.
Stefan and Elena need to get back together before the end of the series or seasons 1-3 won't even matter. The writers have managed to completely wreck Stelena. Congrats Julie and Caroline. I don't want Caroline to go to The Originals because of some shipping term. I want her to go, because she has so much more potential there then just magically falling in love with Stefan. I don't consider Damon a villain. He's an antihero.
ReplyDeleteSeason 3 had a better overall consistency than Season 2. Don't get me wrong Season 2 is tied with Season 3 for the best season.
ReplyDeleteTo me Stelena always is and always will be endgame for the series. About the Damon "dying", I think he's going to become a guardian/angel. Bonnie needs to stay dead. She's outlived her stay ever since she became the anchor. This show has a problem with the inability to let go of main characters,
ReplyDeleteThey can't just pretend like Seasons 4 & 5 never happened. I don't want to ever see Stefan get back with Elena after what she did to him. She had feelings for Damon for a while and she even kissed Damon while she was still with Stefan. Elena & Stefan broke up in 4x06 and Elena turned around and jumped into bed with Damon the very next episode. I don't think Stefan should ever take her back after that. I want to see Stefan find someone new who won't be into his brother because I'm so tired women (Katherine, Elena, and even Rebekah) bed-hopping between the two of them.
ReplyDeleteCaroline certainly has on blinders when it comes to Stefan. It's the same problem that Elena had. They really just don't see how awful Stefan can be - but for some reason they're able to recognize the bad that Klaus & Damon do. I do think Stefan presents himself as being the "good brother" and that Elena bought into that in the first three seasons (maybe she even still does) and Caroline has always bought into it because Stefan has never personally harmed her the way Damon did.
ReplyDeleteStefan is the biggest loose cannon because he just goes off the rails and starts ripping people to shreds - he jumps from one extreme to the other and both Caroline & Elena have always been in denial when it comes to Stefan's Ripper half (which is a big part of who he is). They never really want to talk about how Stefan killed an entire village of people for the fun of it.
Assuming
ReplyDeletemeans not knowing. And besides, Klaus killed a couple of Elenas friends and threatened
the rest of them to make sure she cooperate. He probably wanted to punish Damon
and couldn't find him.
Why wouldn't Klaus compel someone to sleep with him? He's used to get what he wants. If not, he kills.
ReplyDeleteWhat happened, when Becca wanted to leave him? She was at his side for over 900 years. Then she finds someone he loves and wants to be with him, even for a short while. And what did Klaus do? He daggered her and put her in a coffin for 90 years. What did he do, when his mother put a curse on him? He killed her.
Klaus is using to get what he wants without hesitation. So he is absolutely capable of compelling someone into bed. Just because we didn't see him do it, doesn't mean he didn't. The reason he didn't used it on Caroline is, that he likes her. And JP wanted to make him more likable to the fans. She wanted him to stay at all costs. And after all the innocent people he killed she didn't want him to be also a rapist.
I see that you're a huge Klaus fan. You try so hard to defend him. You didn't even answer my question from one of my comments. What would you do if Klaus shows up and kills your friends and family? Let him walk away and give blood donations so can keep on building his army of zombie hybrids? Or fight him, try to kill him?
At the end you admitted that he kills entire families for revenge.
Jules and Jenna were a backup plan. He planned on going with Ty and Carolne. Jules was his backup plan. And Jenna. Didn't he said you always need a backup plan?
As far as I know the cast signed for 6 seasons. And as far as I know they already said that none of them will sign again.
ReplyDeleteWhat is it telling you, if the cast doesn't want to continue the show? Right: The show sucks.
Too bad. The show had great potential.
There is no redemption for Klaus. Cause that would mean he has to change. And that would mean he won't get anything he wants, and he can't kill for the fun of it. He won't be able to give that up.
Season 2 for me. That was back when the Klaus storyline was new, unfortunately they dragged it out too long with Season 3 and into Season 4. But Season 2 was just amazing, I loved that Katherine was brought into the forefront more, they finally gave Caroline more of a storyline, Bonnie was more badass (but still only there for everyone else's benefit, that will never change.)
ReplyDeleteFor me:
Season 2
Season 1
Season 4
Season 3
Season 5
Stefan changed in Season 5, though. He's no longer traumatized, but he still didn't put up a fight like he would have in the past if someone was about to kill a human doppelganger because of him. Stefan is starting to put himself before other people, valuing his life before anyone else's, whether or not they're innocent. He can't go from one extreme to another anymore because he's no longer at any extreme. Even with his humanity, he cares about as much about human life as Caroline does. In a way, they're a good match, but I think the status of Caroline and Elena's friendship should be addressed more thoroughly before Stefan and Caroline even hook up. Right now everything is too murky. It seems like it might still be wrong for those two to be together. I'm glad Caroline Dries said that they're going to make this relationship evolve very, very slowly.
ReplyDeleteStefan really didn't care about Aaron Whitmore (and was ready to kill him himself in 5x10) or any of the people Damon & Enzo killed so I don't think he really valued human lives in Season 5.
ReplyDeleteHe also didn't have an issue with the way Elena killed Jesse (only Caroline realized that it was wrong and they could have helped him - like they helped Damon & Elena when the same thing happened to them).
I just told you why he wouldn't compel someone to bed - his ego is too big.
ReplyDeleteRebekah has not been on Klaus' side for 900 years. Even back in 1114 she chose a vampire hunter over Klaus (who was trying to kill her entire family), Rebekah also tried to have Klaus killed in 1919. Klaus daggered Rebekah in the 1920s because she wanted to run back to where Mikael was instead of away from him.
We really didn't see the circumstances of Esther's death - but that was back when he was first turned. The first thing Stefan did as a vampire was kill his father, the first thing Caroline did was kill that poor innocent carnival worker. I suspect that when Esther rejected Klaus and disowned him as her son and put the curse on him that he just lost it just as Stefan lost control and killed his father.
"At the end you admitted that he kills entire families for revenge."
I said STEFAN wiped out an entire village. We have no evidence that Klaus has done that - but we know for a fact that Stefan has.
I don't have much time, sorry. It's late and I have to get up early, so I'll make it quick.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you keep on defending Klaus?
He does have a huge ego. He always gets what he wants. That is why he would never, or rarely allow a woman to turn him down.
Becca did had sex with that hunter. But she didn't left Klaus for him, or planed on doing so. The family lived together in a house at that time and the hunters were their guests. And it was Klaus idea to get closer to the hunters. He was curious and wanted informations. The guy was hot and Becca welcomed the chance to have some fun.
I can't remember that Becca tried to get Klaus killed. Was it in Originals? Haven't watch it. But in the 1920s she wanted to go with Stefan. Klaus didn't want her to go so he put her away for 90 years. Why would she go back to her father? He tried to kill her. In the bar or club or whatever. Klaus wanted to run, but she wanted to go to Stefan.
So it's ok if Klaus slips and kills after he turned, but it's not ok with Stefan? Besides the circumstances were completely different. Stefan was defending himself when his father tried to kill him (again). He was stronger than he expected and is father got hurt. His father was bleeding and Stefans instinct to take the blood and complete the transition was too strong after he saw and smelled the blood. He and Damon already decided to die. Stefan just wanted to say goodbye to his father. We don't know how long Klaus was a vamp before he killed his mother. Days, weeks, maybe months? From Beccas memories we know, that their mother made them the rings. And the people were already suspicious and avoided them feared them. So I'd say that at least a couple of weeks passed. And he killed his mom not by accident, or because he lost control cause he couldn't control his bloodlust. From what we know he killed her for putting the curse on him.
We don't know if Klaus whipped out an entire village. But he whipped out the entire Petrova family. Why? Katerina messed up his plans and run away. He couldn't find her, so he killed her entire family.
Yeah, riper Stefan is bad news. But as long as he stays away from human blood he's okay. Klaus is always bad news.
Elena's greatest fear is that she would turn out like Katherine, but the thing is it was bound to happen. She led Stefan and Damon on and now one of them will get their heart broken when Elena makes her final decision.
ReplyDeleteSeason 3 was the best for me.
ReplyDelete