Applause…, and the curtain falls.
We have arrived at the finale, titled Do You Believe in Miracles, and it’s a miracle we aren’t walking away outraged, considering the mess that was this season. In fact, I may dare say, I felt a bit of satisfaction after the
But I’m no fool. I know why I’m not overly disappointed with the mixed bag they delivered as the final episode. Measured with the yard sticks of good storytelling, emotional engagement, and flow, it would be considered a let-down. If this was the season finale of the Walking Dead or Game of Thrones the cries of viewers and critics alike would be heard from four corners of the Internet.
But Carver knows his audience, and he knows how to get the most positive reaction from them with the least amount of effort. Throw in a bit of Sam and Dean here, a reference to Dean and Cas there, an angst laden moment for each of the boys, a bit of action, popcultural references, slapstick humor fans could screen cap and make image macros from, and you’re done. After the bro-fans, the D/C fans, the Sam girls, Dean girls and Cas girls each get their share (not too big because you don't want to upset the other teams) you don’t have to worry about plot resolution, mythology arcs, or character development. Your fans are too busy chatting, reblogging and squeezing over their favorite parts to pay any attention to that. That’s why among all the rapid fire discussions fans had about the finale most were about where each character might end up next season, and fewer about the jumble that happened at the end of this one.
But I didn’t overlook it. I didn’t even miss the dig the ungrateful writers made at the People’s Choice Awards we won for them. And indeed, that’s what the Gripe Review is for, to keep tabs of these intentional and unintentional mishaps and hold them up for Carver to see, in hopes that he and his writers might shift their priorities from fanservice delivery to good storytelling in the future, if only just a bit so we get a better seaosn 10.
The finale wasn’t bad, it wasn’t good either, and maybe it couldn’t have been better considering the material that came before it. Strictly speaking about what could have been fixed in the episode itself might be impossible for some issues, therefore some of the gripes are in regards to season 9 as a whole.
Gripe #1: Everyone is along for the ride, but not on the same bus
I give praise where praise is due. I enjoyed how everyone was in some way involved in the final chapter, either working toward defeating Metatron, or – in Crowley’s case – for personal advantage. What peeved me though was how it was all set up in a way that kept most players apart. I don’t think Castiel and Dean spent more than a few seconds together. Sam only got to the aftermath of Dean’s battle with Metatron. He wasn’t in the right place for most of the action and unable to help either Dean or Cas in any way. Dean for his part, spent most of his screen time with the villains.
This may not seem a bad thing if the pacing is correct and logic applies (like with a show like Game of Thrones.) But Supernatural isn’t an ensemble show happening to different people all over the world, even if Carver loves to treat it that way. Team Free Will is the center of the audience’s attention and constantly splitting them apart causes that attention to scatter. The result is that at points we don’t care about one character’s progress when something more important is happening elsewhere, or are jarred out of the important stuff so that parallel plots have a chance to move forward.
An example was when Dean was dying and we suddenly switched to Metatron talking to Cas. That talk was probably the most important piece of exposition in the entire season, considering it was the only time villain-talk helped the plot. Yet it took place just after Dean received a fatal wound and was dying in Sam’s arms so I, as a viewer, was more concerned about that storyline than whatever Metatron had to say to Cas.
Similarly when the twist at the end happened we were treated to a long speech by Crowley. Gripe #2 deals with the problems of that speech and the twist that followed it. But aside from that, this is the only finale which ends with someone other than the main cast holding the microphone (and most of the camera time,) which says a lot about how the whole season was constructed.
Gripe #2: Last minute exposition anyone?
In the last review I said the trouble with not giving the mark a clear mythology is that the writers could use it at any time to explain away plot twists. This is exactly what happened. The writers even took it one step further and pulled some ‘previously untold’ material out of the hat to explain away the final twist. This last minute revelation strategy made it impossible for the viewers to predict the outcome of the season since they didn't have the needed information before this moment to make such prediction. That means everyone was technically robbed from having a baited breath ‘Aha!’ moment.
To give you an idea what this means, let’s speculate how it would have been had the information been given to the audience in an earlier episode. It could have happened in a flashback (a flash on Cain with black eyes) or a dialogue. At the time it might have been considered a throw away piece. But this is called ‘planting of a seed’. Once you reach the end of the season, and the twist is about to take place, the smart viewer remembers that flashback, or piece of dialogue. He or she would connect it to what is happening on screen, and the 'Aha' moment would occur. Crowley’s explanation (modified of course) would no longer be information dumping, but a confirmation of what the viewer has already guessed about the outcome.
I won’t say that no fans saw the twist coming. Those might be fans involved with the fandom though who listened to the interviews (Jensen’s “eye opener” comment) and read BTS spoilers. For the viewers not involved with the show beyond watching it, Dean’s transformation was like dropping a bomb because nothing we knew about either demons or the mark until that point explained it. The only thing that justified such a development was Crowley’s “by the way, forgot to mention…” speech, which was a sort of last minute cheat to keep the viewers in the dark as much as possible.
Gripe #3: Metatron and his brand of evil
I’ve ranted a lot about Metatron in the past reviews, but I can't help it. He is the gift that keeps on giving. It’s the final episode and if he had any world domination plans that needed to come to a head this was the time for them.
*Spoilers for The Originals, Arrow and The Walking Dead finales ahead*
In the last two weeks I had the pleasure of watching three season finales (four, if I count Grimm.) On the Originals, the villains slaughtered an entire community of vampires, on Arrow the villain declared war on the whole city using drugged soldiers, and on The Walking Dead the villains beat someone to near death, molested a child, and almost killed the main character, before he and his team ran into a new set of more disturbing bad guys.
What did Metatron on Supernatural do? He brought a woman back to life, made a name for himself among the masses, gained followers from the poor and the rejected, healed a sick man, and was imprisoned by his enemies in the end.
If I didn’t already know what his role was on the show I would have guessed he was the second coming of Jesus.
For me as an audience member to side with the protagonist in wanting the villain dead I need reasons, and those reasons need to be on screen and amped up by the time the final show down arrives. Metatron’s evil doings were so thin that Dean only came up with two (killing Kevin, and stealing Castiel’s grace,) while counting them, and had to use a baseball analogy for a third. That’s how much the show failed in building up its season 9 antagonist.
On Arrow, The Originals, even on Grimm, there was a sense of urgency and danger in the final episode. The good guys had to get to the villain(s) and outsmart him/them before the time ran out. Here there was no rush. The need only resided in Dean’s curse. The audience had no way of feeling it, mainly because Metatron wasn’t doing anything particularly terrible or destructive and definitely not on a countdown. Whether Dean got to him today, tomorrow or the next year wouldn’t have changed anything as far as we were concerned, except perhaps giving him time to save more people.
Gripe #4: Are these real hobos or Supernatural fans dressed as ones?
Of course for Metatron’s messiah mission to work he needed followers. Human followers that is, not sheep angels. So what did he do? He dressed up in a pathetic fashion and infiltrated a hobo camp, because no one is quicker to catch viral videos of walking dead people than a bunch of drugged out homeless folks. And just like all such hive minded clusters act (remember the angels?) they immediately fall behind him, even as one of their own starts speaking against it.
Speaking of the guy who spoke up, he accused Metatron of being an angel and expected the humans to be appalled by it. Did Carver forget that outside the world of Sam and Dean, angels are considered servants of God, and almost as revered as he is by the rest of the humans? Why should a bunch of uninformed homeless people care if the person in front of them is God or a messenger from him? Why would Metatron bother denying it? Unless these people all have watched the show and know that angels are dicks, meeting an angel is as much a miracle as meeting God himself, and their reaction to the accusation would be, “So what?”
Gripe #5: We have already seen all this.
Supernatural has had many memorable moments throughout the years. Some of these were so iconic they have been touted by the fans through image macros, videos and fanart, which have stamped them even more in the show’s legacy. Unfortunately those are also the ones the showrunners like to repeat, like an advertising clip that gets aired a lot because it works with the customers.
This episode was a showcase of such moments. From Dean being locked up in a panic room, to him being beaten to a pulp and bleeding from his face, to Sam showering him with his tears, it was all emotional scenes we’d already seen before. Even Metatron’s miracles were a throwback to God Castiel’s season 6 acts. Aside from the parts with Gadreel and the Mark of Cain, this whole episode’s script could have been put together from patches of other finales and season openers, down to the close up of Dean’s face in the last shot, which was reminiscent of the close up of him in hell we saw in the last seconds of season 3.
Gripe #6: No resolution to the brotherly rift?
I have to admit, I’m over the brotherly love, codependency, or whatever it is defined as right now. For me it went off the rails sometime in season 6 and never got back on. It’s like the new showrunners heard it was the heart of the show and decided to use it whenever they wanted to shoehorn an idea into the plot, or make emotionally half-baked scenarios work for them.
Last season it was Sam not looking for Dean in Purgatory, followed by the Amelia/Benny debacle. This season it was Gadreel, and Dean not respecting Sam’s right to choose to die.
While I might be fed up by the brother drama and would prefer a season or two without it (with them working together like the earlier seasons) I understand its merit in a show that has barely any other relationships outside its three main cast members - and God knows they do a lot of the same with the Dean-Cas relationship. What I can’t stand however is them not putting the tool back together once they have finished using it. By that I mean not giving the growing conflict between the brothers a proper closure.
Let’s look at this season. For half of it we were jerked around by the clash that started with Dean trying to save Sam and tricking him into accepting Gadreel, then dancing to Gadreel’s every whim. When the truth was revealed a fight broke out and a rift formed between Sam and Dean that was so big Sam only agreed to work with Dean if they were just colleagues. Apparently all of this was to rev up Dean’s mark fueled rage down the path of darkness as we saw happen in the second half of the season. Unfortunately once Carver was done with that he was done with the brothers entirely and conveniently reset them back to where they were before it all happened.
Call me a skeptic but I don’t think that’s how these things work in real life. You won’t just shove things under the bed because something else comes along. Carver did this last season too when he introduced the trial storyline, and he did it this season with the Mark of Cain storyline. It seems to be his preferred strategy for how to structure the show and it has major problems both story-wise and character-wise. This is one of the reasons why the emotional gravity of the series has been missing these past couple of years. Carver ‘uses’ what once had been the heart of the show to construct his mythology for each season, then magic-flips it back to its original shape ignoring all the damage he's done. A few hugs here, a few tears there, some gobbledygook talk in a church, and in his mind the brothers have “chosen each other” and are all good. That is until the next season when we’re back on the same roller coaster, heading for the same course.
Gripe #7: Cas would do anything for love, but he won’t do that.
As said in the previous gripe, the Dean and Cas relationship is another one Carve exploits. But unlike the Band-Aid hugs and dialogue he gives the brothers, his favorite go-to method with these two is exposition. His scripts are full of words such as, “We are family,” “I need you,” “You did everything to save one man,” and the occasional action when it suits him (like Dean looking for Cas in Purgatory or Cas giving up his army for Dean,) but when it comes to where the relationship stands at the end of it all, he puts the two of them on different continents, both geographically and emotionally.
In this episode Metatron told Castiel that it was obvious he did everything to save Dean, which was too bad because Dean was dead already. This got a reaction out of Castiel and I thought had he not been bound to a chair he would have raced to find Dean and cure him if possible.
But when he finally got out of that chair he didn’t even make an attempt to go after Sam and Dean. He busied himself with locking Metatron in a cell and chatted about wanting to be an angel again. What happened to the impact of that declaration on him, the evidence of which we saw in his tears? Did Castiel simply accept Metatron’s claim about Dean and worked through his five stages of grief in record time? Wouldn’t he want to see for himself if Dean was really dead? Wouldn’t he want to see if he could do something to heal him if, by any chance, some life was still left in him? Wouldn’t he at least want to comfort Sam? Anything would have been better than him acting like he was struck by a bolt of amnesia and going about his duties like nothing had happened.
Gripe #8: The distinct lack of emotional glue to hold the pieces together
This gripe is a culmination of nearly all other gripes. A lot of drama happened in this episode. And while the actors did their absolute best to give each and every one the passionate delivery it deserved, there was still something missing. The same thing that previously made the show so great.
I can’t put my finger on it. Maybe it’s the mess that’s become of the brotherly bond, or the insistence of keeping the players separate so much, maybe it’s the instantaneous flipping of characters from one mood to the next in the service of the plot, or maybe it’s simply the fact that there’s nothing new here that we haven’t already seen before. Whatever it is, as the images kept marching on the screen I sat there nodding my head, as if it was all happening in a news report to people I barely knew and certainly didn't cared about, at least not on the personal level.
Which is a far cry from how I felt at the finales of the previous seasons.
Maybe it’s just me. Maybe I’m burnt out from feeling anything for these characters since I know no matter what happens they will come back. Whatever it is I’m sad to say that nothing that happened in Do You Believe in Miracles touched me too deep. Not Dean being locked by Sam and Castiel, not him dying at Metatron’s hand, not the “I am proud of us,” line, not Sam crying over Dean, not Cas having tears in his eyes, not even the surprise twist at the end that I knew was coming as soon as Sam laid Dean on the bed. I watched the whole thing with a sort of “Hm!” reaction and once it was over I moved on to check what the fans were saying.
What I wish for in the next season:
First off no more digs at fans. The current writers and showrunner didn’t deserve that People’s Choice Award that was handed to them. It was the fans showing their appreciation for the show. The least they could do is to not belittle it.
Secondly, plan your whole season in advance. No more throwing story ideas out there and seeing what sticks. Knowing from the beginning where your story is headed will allow you to construct the individual events wisely, so they all point to a unified conclusion without plotholes or retcons such as the ones we saw this season in abundance.
Thirdly, and I’m willing to say a prayer for this, please no more separate storylines for each of the main characters. Keep Castiel with the brothers if you plan to have them all on the show, or make their stories connected at least. A parallel angel storyline while Sam and Dean go hunt for the cookie monster makes both stories redundant. The audience won’t know which one to pay attention to and hence might lose interest in both.
And finally, please have a better villain. I’ve been asking for this since the Mother of All failure of season 6. After Lucifer’s departure this show has been in desperate need of a good, solid villain, not ones who drop like flies before the season ends with a surprise villain like Castiel or Metatron. This again has to do with planning your season ahead so you won’t be stuck with a bad guy you have no story for.
There are other things I'm sure I could use next season, but I’ll stick with these for now. I will post two more Gripe Reviews in the coming weeks, one for the season 9 characters and one for its plots, which will encompass my overall impression of the season. Until then, feel free to drop a line in the comment section and let me know what you think.
Tessa
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I agree with you once again on pretty much everything haha. I think you hit it spot on when you said "The finale wasn’t bad, it wasn’t good either, and maybe it couldn’t have
ReplyDeletebeen better considering the material that came before it.". It was fine. But given what this season has been I don't think they really could have done much else because as you also said, there really wasn't any build up to anything in particular.
To me this is why it seemed a little odd to me that we only had one episode of Metatron trying to be God for humanity. I feel like if he had been doing it for an episode or two more, it would have given the boys more of a reason to go after him, a sense of urgency so to speak. Because let's face it, why should Sam and Dean care that he made the angels fall? That's not their fight. What could they do that a bunch of super powered angels couldn't? Metatron was a dick sure, but as a season long villain he left a lot to be desired. So I just feel if he had been tricking humanity into thinking he was God for more than a quarter of an episode we would have had more of a reason to want him gone, other than just wanting him gone because he was being a bit annoying.
As for the peoples choice award remark, that really did annoy me. They should have just spat on the awards that we have helped them win and then spat in our faces. To the writers, it's pretty clear that the only award your writing is going to win is one that we win for you, but if you don't want it? Fine. Maybe you should write better episodes and you might be in for a chance of a "real" award.
Thank s for the comment. Exactly my thoughts. Metatron wasn't built up and given enough time to be an effective villain. As I said in the review, Dean couldn't put three solid reasons together why he wanted him to die and had to make up a joke about baseball to fill the gap. It almost felt like they didn't know whether to have Abaddon or Metatron as the main villain of the season and decided to go with both, which resulted in both of the feeling incomplete and insignificant in the end.
ReplyDeleteThe PCA remark really pissed me off. That's the thanks we get for getting the show on a major network event two years in a row, which led to higher viewership and better ratings, so these suckers could have a regular paycheck. Like I said, it wasn't for them, and perhaps that's why they are sour over it.
"this is the only finale which ends with someone other than the main cast holding the microphone"
ReplyDeleteExcept that he has been upped to a regular for next season, so I was ok with that part. I agree with pretty much all of the rest of your gripes.
"four, if I count Grimm"
I'm curious, why wouldn't you count Grimm? It has been a busy 2 weeks for me with 11 finales.
As for the PSA, sorry but it isn't worth the paper it is written on. I was a bit surprised when I heard the line though because I knew it would piss off the dozens of fans that took part in that. I think the joke was meant to poke fun at themselves not the fans, but like most of the writing this season, it failed.
Except that he has been upped to a regular for next season,
ReplyDeleteHe wasn't at the time I wrote this review. The news reached me quite recently. I was tempted to say the only finale with TFW all separate from each other but then I remembered season 7 finale where even though Dean and Cas were both in Purgatory Cas disappeared just before the end. Still, Dean yelling for him as Gorilla Wolves circled him was much more appealing than Crowley talking to himself.
"four, if I count Grimm"
I wasn't going to talk about Grimm's villain. Their villains are as bad as Supernatural's (worse since their mythology moves at a glacial pace.) But the finale was still fast paced and exciting, I'll give them that much.
I'm still quite confused by Metatron. He was pitiful the entire season, with brief moments of villainy. I kept waiting for him to come out with his real master plan and declare that all the stupidity was just a red herring. Maybe that will happen next season? I doubt it though. I only barely understand his motivations or his goals, and his methods were incredibly lame and half-assed. His attempts at being a messiah were obviously insincere. It was like watching a bad high school play. I wasn't clear to me if Carver, the director and writers had meant for it to come across like that or maybe Curtis Armstrong is just the worst actor on the planet. I'm guessing it wasn't Curtis' fault given how bad the rest of the scenes were among the homeless. They beat up and killed an angel to protect Metatron, but when Dean (and later Sam) shows up with weapon in hand to kill Metatron, they are just like "He's over there, have a nice night!"
ReplyDeleteI actually liked the finale. Why? Because, being a hopeless hopeful I hope that Dean's demon story will play out for the season and that something positive will come up for Dean. I'm tired of the story being about Sam and only Sam with Dean as his supporting character.
ReplyDeleteThe show has been a redundant retelling of previous episodes since season 6, so I'm not disturbed by that. What's new this time is that the story is about Dean for once and that is what makes it so surprising to me..
Would this show have been better had Kim Manners still been alive? Definitely. Kim is the person who knew how to make the show balanced, where neither character was sidelined. But after he died, the show became one big Ode To Sam Winchester, up to the point where even this finale has Cas and Sam together without Dean because the Dean and Cas dynamics are too hot for the writers to handle.
So, maybe this wasn't the best finale, but it was better than last season's .
I can only hope that Dean's story will last, and that maybe Dean Winchester is the new Big Bad as well as the hero who saves himself next season. But with Carver, it's hard to tell. As soon as some small group of fans cry foul, he usually folds like a deck of cheap cards and scuttles back, like the scared rat, to the status quo, where everything is given up for Sam and it once again becomes All About Sam. In other words, season 8, and the killing of purgatory, Benny and anything Dean just so Sam could have all the story about him and Dean is now all about Sam and making sure Sam is safe, warm and dry and that his nose is wiped, his diaper changed, and he's fed the right meals. Pft. The last half of season 8 sucked. I hope Carver makes up for it in season 10.
I don't want Dean to be the center of the universe, like Sam has been for the past 9 years, but I do want Dean to have some importance that goes beyond being Sam's brother.
Castiel: 1. Tricking Metatron to tell the truth so the angels can hear his real intentions. Checked
ReplyDelete2. Incarcerate Metatron. Checked
Mmm.... I feel like I'm forgetting something, but I can't remember what it is. Maybe something Metatron said before or something.
Hannah: Maybe your grace?
Castiel: Oh yes¡ my grace. Thanks for reminding me Hannah.
Thanks for the review.
ReplyDeleteThey beat up and killed an angel to protect Metatron, but when Dean (and
ReplyDeletelater Sam) shows up with weapon in hand to kill Metatron, they are just
like "He's over there, have a nice night!"
Hahaha! I noticed that too. That made no sense.
Like I said, it wasn't for them, and perhaps that's why they are sour over it.
ReplyDeleteOr perhaps they were joking because they didn't win the main PCA award this year that they won the past two years before that, and it was more of a poke at the award than at fans.
They beat up and killed an angel to protect Metatron, but when Dean (and later Sam) shows up with weapon in hand to kill Metatron, they are just like "He's over there, have a nice night!"
ReplyDeleteSam was pointing a gun at them - they're less likely to attack him than someone who was seen as weak or harmless.
They also said that they were doing penance for killing the angel. That would make them less likely to kill again.
I only barely understand his motivations or his goals, and his methods were incredibly lame and half-assed. His attempts at being a messiah were obviously insincere. It was like watching a bad high school play. I wasn't clear to me if Carver, the director and writers had meant for it to come across like that or maybe Curtis Armstrong is just the worst actor on the planet
I'm pretty sure he was supposed to be like that. Everything about Metatron from his very first episode has been a sham. He's insecure, delusional, and ultimately, a weakling on the inside. His plans have always been about what gets him validation at that moment.
I completely agree with you, although I really don't like that Dean had to become what he hated most to get his storyline. I hope that he will be a different type of demon, more like Cain seemed to be.
ReplyDeleteI also absolutely don't want next season to be a brother vs. brother thing. I want Cas and Sam working together to save Dean, not kill him, and under no circumstances do I want Dean to even attempt to kill Sam.
That being said, I agree with most of this gripe. The only thing I really liked about this past season was the MoC storyline. The rest was annoying as heck.
Did Castiel simply accept Metatron’s claim about Dean and worked through his five stages of grief in record time? Wouldn’t he want to see for himself if Dean was really dead?
ReplyDeleteHe very well may have wanted to see. Given that we only saw him for a moment or less immediately after Metatron was captured, it's tough to know what he was going to do next.
Misha said that Cas believed Dean was dead.
Secondly, plan your whole season in advance. No more throwing story ideas out there and seeing what sticks. Knowing from the beginning where your story is headed will allow you to construct the individual events wisely, so they all point to a unified conclusion without plotholes or retcons such as the ones we saw this season in abundance.
It's interesting, because other than Cas' story, which did feel somewhat haphazard, I actually felt like this season was planned in advance, more than any season since season 4. Dean's story had a clear story point from the first episode of season to the last. Everything has fit into place. I'd say the same about Crowley's plot this season.
down to the close up of Dean’s face in the last shot, which was reminiscent of the close up of him in hell we saw in the last seconds of season 3.
Wasn't the last shot of season 3 Dean screaming "SAMMY!!!", looking terrified, as his shirt was soaked with blood? I have to admit I didn't think of that scene at all during this episode.
Actually, I took more as a dig at the Emmy's not taking the show seriously, much like Metatron didn't take the show's "Supernatural" book series seriously. Metatron thought he was above such drivel and the political powers over major awards shows appear to feel the same way. But that was just my take on it.
ReplyDeleteTo me, he was always the picked on "nerdy" kid trying to make the cool kids, and everyone else, acknowledge that he was greater than them and they should worship his "greatness". He was never villain material but he had to be stopped because his reckless disregard of life, both human and angel.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I won't say everything with Metatron worked, especially toward his last few episodes, but I thought his role generally worked the way you described. He wasn't a major villain and I don't think he was intended to be.
ReplyDeleteBut I’m no fool. I know why I’m not overly disappointed with the mixed bag they delivered as the final episode. Measured with the yard sticks of good storytelling, emotional engagement, and flow, it would be considered a let-down. If this was the season finale of the Walking Dead or Game of Thrones the cries of viewers and critics alike would be heard from four corners of the Internet.
ReplyDeleteBut Carver knows his audience, and he knows how to get the most positive reaction from them with the least amount of effort. Throw in a bit of Sam and Dean here, a reference to Dean and Cas there, an angst laden moment for each of the boys, a bit of action, popcultural references, slapstick humor fans could screen cap and make image macros from, and you’re done. After the bro-fans, the D/C fans, the Sam girls, Dean girls and Cas girls each get their share (not too big because you don't want to upset the other teams) you don’t have to worry about plot resolution, mythology arcs, or character development. Your fans are too busy chatting, reblogging and squeezing over their favorite parts to pay any attention to that. That’s why among all the rapid fire discussions fans had about the finale most were about where each character might end up next season, and fewer about the jumble that happened at the end of this one.
I assume you weren't calling fans who enjoyed the finale fools, as I don't think you feel that way, so, moving along from that, I just wanted to point out that many of the fans who did enjoy parts of the finale pointed out some of the same criticisms you did, and began doing so during the episode and immediately after the episode aired.
There seems to be this implication in your review that the only fans who will be able to criticize and scrutinize are fans who are able to somehow see through these moments. That there is a dividing line between voices of truth and fangirls and fanboys who talk about "feels" or cry over gifsets.
The reality is far more blurred. There are many people in this fandom who talk about where characters are going and talk about how they feel, and yet talk about how disappointed they were by something. And it's been this way for a long time. I can't think of an episode full of more fanservice than "Swan Song," which had an extended sequence that told us Dean and Sam were lucky to be neglected and abused as children, because they had a beautiful car that they got to play toy soldiers in (a soldier that had never existed until this story...). This was not enough to stop the episode from being polarizing and somewhat unpopular.
To me, this episode had a relatively limited amount of Dean/Cas moments, pop culture references, and slapstick humor. It was, by the standards of modern-day SPN (modern-day being season 5 to present), an episode I found to be pretty stark and sobering. There were a few funny bits here and there, but overall I didn't feel like most of this was endless pandering to fans.
I do think TWD and Game of Thrones are superior shows to SPN, but it's also tough for me to compare a finale of a 9-season show to a finale of a 4-season show. And the shows have very different tones. Even then, I would say that it's not as simple as these shows get harsher judgment. Do you think if SPN had a white character crowdsurfing through a group of black slaves that they "liberated," it would get the same near-collective silence on such an uncomfortable image that Game of Thrones got for their season 3 finale? I'm not too sure. I think it would get the same, "This show should have ended in season 5!! This proves how much the show sucks!!" type of reaction that even the best of SPN tends to get in some quarters.
Tessa pretty much taking the words out of my mouth. I actually wonder sometimes if people forgot how good the show use to be in comparison to the quality it is today.
ReplyDeleteThis show use to be damn good. One of the best tv shows made and now it's probably one of the worse scripted shows on tv. That's a massive drop in quality.
I still keep watching because a part of me wants and hopes it will get better. Really want them to do something awesome with demon Dean.
Also Tessa, what did you think of the Grimm season finale? I pretty much hated that. Don't like Adalind and all the drama she stirs up every season and gets away with. Grimm has shown it can be great when focusing on the mythology and not the housewives drama.
Tessa pretty much taking the words out of my mouth. I actually wonder sometimes if people forgot how good the show use to be in comparison to the quality it is today.
ReplyDeleteI don't think people have forgotten. Pretty much every episode of SPN for about 6 years now tends to get a, "Remember when this show was good? Now it's terrible," response from large portions of fandom.
Speaking only for myself, I do think the show has seen better days. It's just that I still think they can produce some good quality work at times, and the acting and some of the individual moments still work for me. This past episode was my favorite finale since Lucifer Rising, although I know the episode had some big flaws.
I liked this finale. It definitely wasn't flawless but most of the flaws originated from the whole season not this ep.
ReplyDelete#6. I completely agree, they should have never dared to damage this bro bond this badly in the first place!
#5. I disagree. Parallel or putting characters in each others shoes isn't 'the same thing'. I for one always wanted to see Dean being at the center of care and attention. I wanted to see Sam worried and struggling to save his brother.
My gripes of this ep:
1. The whole ridiculous affair w/ the homeless, from their blind faith to a stranger to savagely killing a person in his defend (while they usually never involve themselves in troublesome stuff). But most of all, it was so long and tiresome.
2. The story. From where I saw, Dean's help was never needed. All they needed to do was taking the tablet (which is ridiculous bc Metatron was more than an angel before the tablet). So here saying Cas & Gad went to heaven to help Dean defeat Metatron is funny.
My likes:
1. It was a beautiful ending for Dean's story (minus the last scene). MoC and Dean's fall in this season was strong and consistent to the end, I really liked it. (I agree w/ gripe#2 but well...)
2. The end of the angel conflict, yay! And Cas being the main hero in it, w/ Gad's help of course.
3. Sam's determination to bring Dean back, even going as far as dealing w/ a demon. I know w/ introduction of the angels, making deals w/ demons has no meaning, but I think here Carver wanted to clean the mess of S8 and 'maturity'. He practically ate his words here, LOL!
2. The story. From where I saw, Dean's help was never needed. All they needed to do was taking the tablet (which is ridiculous bc Metatron was more than an angel before the tablet). So here saying Cas & Gad went to heaven to help Dean defeat Metatron is funny.
ReplyDeleteDidn't they need distractions so they'd be able to have a change to look for the tablet?
No, apparently they rushed to heaven, during lock down, to find the tablet to help Dean defeat Matatron.
ReplyDeleteDistraction and using Metatron's absence was the logical story, but I think they wanted for it to look like helping Dean was the priority here.
I assume you weren't calling fans who enjoyed the finale fools, as I don't think you feel that way,
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the finale as indicated in the first paragraph of the review. By saying I'm not a fool I mean I understand why I enjoyed it ATM. Carver planted some things in the episode that made me like it even though it wasn't as good as it could have been. However I also said it wasn't bad.
I just wanted to point out that many of the fans who did enjoy parts of the finale pointed out some of the same criticisms you did, and began doing so during the episode and immediately after the episode aired.
Then they are the same. They enjoyed the episode because some things worked for them, but also realize that overall it wouldn't stand up in a crowd of finales.
To me, this episode had a relatively limited amount of Dean/Cas moments, pop culture references, and slapstick humor.
The whole season was barren of Dean/Cas moments so as a fan, I guess I was happy they at least implied it (Cas' tears and Dean calling revenge on Metatron for stealing Cas' grace.) I know it's piffle but I assume Carver is keeping from pissing the other team off. As for pop culture references and slapstick humor they had too much for a finale, even if it was less than an average episode.
Do you think if SPN had a white character crowdsurfing through a group of black slaves that they "liberated," it would get the same near-collective silence on such an uncomfortable image that Game of Thrones got for their season 3 finale?
But that's exactly what I'm saying here. What happens in the last scene feeds off of what happened throughout the entire season. GOT's whole third season (the Daenerys storyline) was leading up to that scene so it worked because, to use the analogy, the scene was crowdsurfing on top of the narrative provided through the season. I can't say the same thing about the SPN finale, definitely not about the last scene. When Dean's eyes opened and they were black I didn't feel like it was where season 9, from beginning till now, was leading up to.
I liked the finale too, although a bit less after some time past from when I finished watching it. In the end I came away feeling pretty much the same as you do. I liked Dean having a meaty storyline when it's always been Sam who was given that gift. On the other hand I like TFW to be together and it looks like Dean turning into a demon will provide another excuse to keep them apart.
ReplyDeleteWould this show have been better had Kim Manners still been alive?
A lot of people seem to think that. I thought Kripke was the one who maintained the show's quality. But after watching Revolution I realized he wasn't the master storyteller I thought he was. So it may have been Kim.
But after he died, the show became one big Ode To Sam Winchester, up to the point where even this finale has Cas and Sam together without Dean because the Dean and Cas dynamics are too hot for the writers to handle.
At the risk of getting some fire I must say I agree. Seasons 4-8 have been heavily Sam-centric. The Dean/Cas separation seems intentional and has been going on since the start of season 9. It has damaged the relationship so bad that I, as a fan, no longer care about them that much because their interactions have become shadow of what they used to be. But then, the same thing could be said about the Dean/Sam relationship, except that it keeps getting reset to them "choosing each other," at the end of every Carver season.
maybe Dean Winchester is the new Big Bad as well as the hero who saves himself next season.
I highly doubt that, based on the previous experience with Castiel. But as you say, it's hard to tell with Carver. He never takes the obvious route the season finale points at. He proved it in season 8 with not spending much time in Purgatory, or having Sam fight the Leviathans. And after the angels fell at the end of that season, season 9 barely dealt with them as a major plot point so I agree. Carver is highly unpredictable.
One thing I would say about him though, and about the second part of season 9, at least he got Dean out of his "I am the moon to Sammy's sun" funk and made the character act and think for himself for a change. That was refreshing, and coupled with Sam worrying about him (as much as a retcon that was) it made for a less infuriating storyline than the trials.
To be fair, it is hard for a 9 year old show to keep the same level of quality that it had five years ago. However some of the problems (the ones that keep coming up in the gripe reviews) are easily fixable. If they stopped creating so much unnecessary drama between Dean and Sam or Dean and Cas, reduced the number of silly episodes, and planned a complete, comprehensive storyline from the beginning of the season and stuck to it till the end, they might just manage to bring the show to the same level of quality as before.
ReplyDeleteAlso Tessa, what did you think of the Grimm season finale?
Not much, but I expected as much from it. Grimm never managed to impress me. I find it too soft and Disney-ish for my taste. The villains are on the other side of the world, the mythology is negligible, and they spend too much time on silly stories like a wedding or a baby or meaningless Wessen of the week cases. But then I am a fan of heavy angst and horror so maybe that is why the show doesn't resonate with me. It apparently resonates with a lot of people judging by the ratings though.
I for one always wanted to see Dean being at the center of care and attention. I wanted to see Sam worried and struggling to save his brother.
ReplyDeleteYou could do that with a unique storyline without repeating the same images/dialogues season after season. Why should everyone who is slip-sliding into darkness be put in a panic room yelling the other brother's name? Why should every fight Dean is involved end with someone beating him in the face? And I already felt sad over Sam crying above Dean once in season 3 (note: same characters, same situation.) Why couldn't it be Castiel this time? Or Castiel comforting Sam as he grieved over Dean? Or any combination that made things different?
Sam's determination to bring Dean back, even going as far as dealing w/ a demon. I know w/ introduction of the angels, making deals w/ demons has no meaning, but I think here Carver wanted to clean the mess of S8 and 'maturity'.
I was worried they'd go as far as having Sam make the deal and hence turning the main storyline back to Sam, while repeating another iconic Dean moment with switched roles. The idea of another season 3 but this time with Sam bored me. I'm glad they didn't choose to do that. I hope they let Sam try to find a way to save Dean this time and I hope they let Castiel be his companion in that quest.
Let's get something out of the way: I love Castiel a lot and don't want the show to be only about the brothers. I'm a TFW fan and want the three of them as a team. But I also agree with this:
ReplyDeleteall of the individual issues with each brother (Dean learning self-worth and gaining self-esteem and Sam’s problem between being a hunter and loyalty to family) were wrapped up with three very short lines of dialogue.
This is pretty much the subject of Gripe #6, the fact that Carver walks all over the brothers then sets them back to factory settings (or so he thinks) with a few sugary words. Nothing they say and do comes from their core personalities anymore. They do what the script requires of them and flip to something else when a new story comes along. Interspersed with this are scattered brotherly moments that seem almost out of context and misplaced. It feels like Carver just puts them there to say, "See, I remember what they mean to each other," even though the damage he does to them makes it seem not so.
So what we have is a new supernatural being, and that supernatural being happens to be the moral center of the show.
Pretty much my thoughts. I can't tell what exactly happened to Dean and Crowley's exposition wasn't that informative. Is Dean's soul turned into black smoke possessing his own body? Is he a special brand of demon who has a corporeal body with no need for possession? Did he have to die to be reborn as a demon?
Perhaps we'll get the answers to those next season, though I highly doubt it. What we will probably get is more canon changing mythology about the mark.
I am sick to death of poached stories, but I do expect a continuing replay of Sam’s Ruby story next season, with Crowley as Ruby.
This is what I'm worried about too. Either this or them suddenly switching directions and making the story about something completely different, like Sam hitting a cat with his car and starting to date a blonde pharmacist.
You're most welcome. :)
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting, because other than Cas' story, which did feel somewhat haphazard, I actually felt like this season was planned in advance, more than any season since season 4. Dean's story had a clear story point from the first episode of season to the last. Everything has fit into place. I'd say the same about Crowley's plot this season.
ReplyDeleteI respectfully disagree, especially about the Crowley part. The season started with Sam's angel possession and then the brotherly feud. The MoC eradicated all that was built up in that part of the season. Sam suddenly forgot he was mad at Dean and Gadreel reappeared as an ally, both to help with the new, fresh and accepted-by-the-fans MoC storyline.
As for Crowley, they seemed to want to follow his human transformation at the start. They didn't do much with it and instead turned the focus on his rivalry with Abaddon. Now I can't see how they would continue with Crowley in any way other than as a full blown demon who will teach Dean the ropes.
For me as an audience member, I have little to no interest in seeing Sam and Dean always have to deal with big bads, especially since the show has, from Lucifer on, done a poor job of writing them.
True, but if the show tells the story in such a way that Sam and Dean do deal with a big bad, don't you want to at least care about that big bad and what he is doing instead of being bored or confused by his actions?
I don't think Metatron was a big antagonist this season. I don't think he was designed to me. The finale was, for me anyway, about Dean's last gasps of life, that Dean had been dying long before Metatron stabbed him. Metatron was a sideshow who did terrible things but ultimately was not the real story. The real story was Dean.
This is an interesting theory. It makes me less mad that Dean's epic transformation happened at the hands of such a pathetic loser of a villain.
Plenty of people said 'Aha!'. Plenty of people speculated and predicted, even without the big hints Jensen gave out at the CW upfronts, that Dean would become a demon.
How do you know this? How would they know Dean might turn into a demon when none of what we know about how demons are made up to this point explain it? Making a random guess and seeing it come true does not create an 'aha' moment?
And I already mentioned in the review what sort of hints might have been good. Perhaps something Cain said he did that in retrospect only a demon could do, and of course the brothers would dismiss it but the audience wouldn't. Or a little memory in Cain's head with him wearing black eyes. It doesn't have to be blatant, but there has to be something to guide the audience in the right direction with tiny signs, not taking their hands and leading them to it.
Why must we get the fact that Cas is your favorite character out of the way? I am well aware of that. You've said so before. Personally, I can take him or leave him. I have not found a real purpose for Cas to be in the show since the end of S4.
ReplyDeleteI loved Cas' 'profound bond' with Dean, and I like the Dean/Cas scenes. I am not happy that the 'profound bond' is now being spread around to include Sam.
I do not consider Cas a lead and never will. IMO, Cas is a support character that should serve the Winchesters story. As you point out, the Winchesters were barely connected to Cas' angel story this season. I also think of Crowley as a support character that should serve the Winchesters story in some way.
And for the record, take it however you will, I hate...H.A.T.E ...the term "Team Free Will." There has been no team for a very long time. You would be wrong if you think that hating the term "TFW" means that I hate Cas or that he does not have a special relationship with the Winchesters.
They were told to send Dean through. I don't know if they were told to let Sam through. They did KNOW they had just committed murder and might've been freaked.
ReplyDeleteBoy, I am agreeing with you tonight! I thought Curtis Armstrong did a great job of being icky.
ReplyDeleteOK: he goes to the homeless camp to start Messiah buzz BUT his first action is to lead frightened, lost people to kill.
Earth would be in sad shape if he were an actual Messiah.
The character was so flawed; it was like he NEVER realized he was not the hero or even "a" hero. He could win by trickery but never by outright pleading his case as being righteous.
Oh Theresa, I hate that Dean might have become what he hated the most.
ReplyDeleteNOT that any of this is Sam's fault but unlike in 9.1 when Dean could say he was operating under the assumption that Sam wanted to live because of what Sam said in 8.23 HERE Dean TOLD Sam that the Mark was changing him into something he didn't want to be, it was ok for him to die.
Now Sam said I'll fix you, we'll worry about the Mark later and Dean didn't say no no no so Sam has that out.
Sam and Dean are supposed to be literally the two most important beings in the SPN universe; I don't mind that they die and come back regularly. And I was glad that Dean died to give Castiel the time to destroy the Angel Tablet. He was helping Castiel fix HIS mess like he'd promised.
I think they beat Dean in the face so much because the actor is beautiful.
ReplyDeleteI personally thought Jensen was beautiful during Crowley's monologue.
Oh one last thing: the demon masseuse noted that Crowley had WON he was again the acknowledged King of Hell but he had not been BACK to hell since Abaddon's death. And to me it looked like he wanted to hang with Dean to take out Metatron just "because." Crowley has to tell us each and every episode he appears that he has kicked human blood. Do you believe that? Or has the human blood changed him and now he wants to be Team Free Will?
Crowley was confusing me the last few episodes of the season.
I thought I had to confirm that I love Cas because, believe it or not, I intentionally tone down these reviews when it comes to him (sometimes too much) and people mistakenly think I am a bros-only fan.
ReplyDeleteWe all have our preferences. Some want the show only with Sam and Dean. Some only with Dean and Castiel. I was happy I liked all three of them. I thought I could play in everyone's sandbox, but most of times I get kicked out of all of them. Looks like not taking a sides in this fandom is worse than playing just for one team.
You are free to consider Cas not a lead. But as you said yourself, his story was barely connected to the Winchesters this season. That means he wasn't a 'support' character, because he didn't support their story. Crowley was a support character but next season he is a regular and depending on what story they give us we could have 4 leads. I'm sorry to say this, there isn't much we could do about it, I'd rather stick with my three leads too but if I have to consider Crowley a lead due to his role in the storyline I will.
I'm not sure what you mean by hating the term Team Free Will. Do you hate the term itself, or the concept behind it? Meaning because it implies Cas is at the same level as the Winchesters. I wouldn't think it would mean you hate Cas, I genuinely don't know what you mean. And I don't have any other word to use when talking about the team that consists of Sam, Dean and Cas. In fact I don't have a term to use for the core team come next season. Team Free Will + King of Hell? Team Hell + Heaven + Humanity? I don't know.
I respectfully disagree, especially about the Crowley part. The season started with Sam's angel possession and then the brotherly feud. The MoC eradicated all that was built up in that part of the season. Sam suddenly forgot he was mad at Dean and Gadreel reappeared as an ally, both to help with the new, fresh and accepted-by-the-fans MoC storyline.
ReplyDeleteFor me, the MoC happened in large part because of the separation between the brothers. Dean felt isolated and ashamed. This just spiraled because of the tension between Dean and Sam in the first few episodes after the mark, tension that basically stayed there, albeit on a lower level, until the last episode. Sam became more concerned about Dean, because he could see that his brother was having a complete breakdown, but there was still some distance (for instance, Dean throwing Sam's words back at him in episode 19, Sam not wanting to make amends with Dean in episode 14, etc.).
I will say that you're absolutely right about the show not doing a good enough job writing the Sam and Dean relationship, especially from Sam's POV. It's just that - again my opinion only - I felt they did a good job showing Dean's thought process and how it slowly changed.
How do you know this? How would they know Dean might turn into a demon when none of what we know about how demons are made up to this point explain it? Making a random guess and seeing it come true does not create an 'aha' moment?
Mostly because of where Dean seemed to be going. I know a lot of fans felt he was no different than usual angry Dean, but to me, his not sleeping, his complete isolation from anything he enjoyed, his lack of interest in humanity or a dividing line between humanity and monsters when he was on the job, all seemed to be going somewhere. I kept thinking of his scene with Ruby in that witch episode in season 3, where she talked about what made her become a demon. It reminded me a lot of where Dean was this season. The scene where he killed the vampire in episode 19 also reminded me of the demon Dean scene in his season 3 nightmare.
I'm not saying there were all these big hints, so I can see where a fan might feel it was out of nowhere. I guess to me it was something that was built up.
As for Crowley, they seemed to want to follow his human transformation at the start. They didn't do much with it and instead turned the focus on his rivalry with Abaddon. Now I can't see how they would continue with Crowley in any way other than as a full blown demon who will teach Dean the ropes.
I think his humanity sort of drove most of his choices during the season. For instance, his reactions to the son he abused. Then his relationship with Dean. He's obviously planning to use Dean, and had been manipulating him all along, but he also spoke with a great deal of fondness toward Dean in that final speech. He never spoke that way about Dean before he had the human blood in him. He's never really seen humans in that light. He was somewhat fond of Cas, but that was partially about power or corruption. I'm not saying he cares about Dean, per se, but it's not the relationship it once was.
True, but if the show tells the story in such a way that Sam and Dean do deal with a big bad, don't you want to at least care about that big bad and what he is doing instead of being bored or confused by his actions?
Definitely. I thought the writing for Metatron was a problem, especially in episode 22/Stairway to Heaven, which was too much crammed into one episode, and in Meta Fiction, which was a little too winky winky.
I guess it didn't bother me as much as, say, the dreariness of someone like Dick Roman, because I never felt like he was presented as the real threat. I think Dean making that deal was the move that caused the most chaos this season. Ultimately it was the broken relationship between Sam and Dean that was the "villain" of the season.
Yeah I mean that's what I want with Supernatural too. I don't expect it to be as good as the Kripke years way into it's ninth season but it doesn't need to be as terrible as it is now. Like I said, all the points you brought up are generally in tuned with my own.
ReplyDeleteYeah i was completely disappointed by the finale. I don't like Adalind at all and don't understand why she is even allowed to live. She does nothing but destroy the lives of all of the main characters practically every season for the sake of drama drama drama. I generally liked the show but it's beginning to annoy me with all the constant drama.
There is some rich mythology and good cases of the week when they actually focus on those things. Right now the only thing that I care to see is what happens with Wu next season. That's it. They didn't give me much reason to want to watch season 4 at this point. I probably will at some point but the show is slowly losing me.
What happens in the last scene feeds off of what happens through the entire season. GOT's whole third season (the Daenerys storyline) was leading up to that scene so it worked because, to use the analogy, the scene was crowdsurfing on top of the narrative provided in the past.
ReplyDeleteI understood the idea of the scene, especially with what we've seen in Dany's story so far this season (it's easier to "liberate" than rule), but I thought the staging was highly problematic. So that's mostly why I compared it to SPN, as I don't think SPN would get away with a scene like that. The show is still dogged 9 years later by the racist truck episode.
Then they are the same way. They enjoyed the episode because some things worked for them, but also realize that overall it wouldn't stand up in a crowd of finales.
I'm glad we both feel this way then. In your review I thought you were saying people who talked about their feelings or reblogged things were blinded by the tricks the show used.
About panic room I completely agree w/ you,even more, I said it before, they were too eager to make a role reversal they completely missed the logic in locking up. Why did they exactly do that?! They should have just kept him away from Gad and kept an eye on him.
ReplyDeletePersonally I think injuring the face put an emphasize on the hurting and tragedy bc you can actually see it, unlike red-dyed cloths. Every time they beat Dean's face, it's when he's far more damaged on the inside, which we can't 'see'. His bloody face is kinda a mirror of his inner self. I admit they should find another way to showcase the damage in the future.
I hear you and I'm a TFW fan, but the aim here was to show how Sam cares about Dean, how lonely he is in their huge bunker, and how nothing can comfort him when Dean is dead, after what he told Dean in S9 and especially after the mess of S8.
I'm sure these were just examples of your list, but to be honest most of the similarities were needed and beautiful here IMHO.
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THIS I wholeheartedly agree w/ you, what a relief it didn't turn to another 'saving Sam' plotline. I hope they keep it up during S10 too.
He didn't technically lead them to killing the angel, he just nudged the blade to them when he saw they were willing to fight for him.
ReplyDeleteThe woman who was hit by the car was at the hobo camp spreading the word about "Marv." I'm surprised people haven't caught on to that, I mean she's the only clean looking person there, and add on that Sam said Metatron whispered to her his next location.
ReplyDeleteAs for why he was denying being an angel, it's mentioned that he has the camp thinking he's the next Jesus, and prefers it when the one homeless persons calls him a Messiah instead of miracle worker. It seemed to me he was trying to steal a page from the Bible.
You nailed it. More damage has been done to Supernatural by Carver as showrunner than by the much derided Sara Gamble, though it's sort of saying, pick the lesser of two weevils. His 'plan' if you would call it that, was to make SPN like 'GOT' with many different factions and paralell storylines, forgetting that we are only invested in Sam, Dean and Castiel, not only because they are the main characters, but they are the only characters we can be invested in because everyone else has been killed off.
ReplyDeleteSeason eight was weak, but I gave Carver some consideration being a new runner, grateful that he dumped the Amelia storyline that had been supposed to go all season, not realizing that he didn't have a plan for where he was going, and had his eye on tumblr and twitter instead of creating something with a vision. Just saying let's reboot and retcon to make it 'fresh' is probelmatic when to my mind, nothing was wrong with the universe SPN created, with unique monsters and a unique style and sensiblility, not to mention a core narrative that remains compelling. Even the Men of Letters (the only intriguing concept in season eight) was thought up - Jensen revealed - in season four!
I had hoped that problems in season nine were due in part to producers and showrunner being too caught up in their planning the limpest least interesting pilot for a spin off I've ever seen, so far from Supernatural in concept that it couldn't even bring fans on board, but CW is still pushing for another spin off concept (and they don't seem to want to pay Edlund for his singular shining idea of Aaron and his Golem) show will be back next season trying to come up with that spin off, and Sam and Dean and Cas might be headed for their last season as rebels without a cause. (as ratings for some reason climbed during the poorest season of all - and I'd say that would be the result of fans creating fandomworks and free pimping the show, not its quality - despite the continuing excellence of J2, Misha, Mark and guests.
In a perfect world, I'd get Kripke and Edlund back from Revolution and Carver, Buckner-Ross Lemming and Klein could walk off into some other CW tween supernatural soap.
I have just rewatched seasons 6 and 7 and am rewatching season 8 at the moment. yes there are some dud episodes, but then i also found that seasons 1-5 also had some dud episodes.
ReplyDeleteAlthough not quite as good as the first few seasons the majority of the episodes were good, some were great and a couple were amazing. Also, the mytharc throughout the seasons was good and I do think that sometimes some people are determined to find fault with the show now because of the fact that it has changed from what it was.
Also the acting throughout has been top notch, especially from Jensen and Jared. Many times during my rewatch I was in tears.
I do not know one show that has managed to keep the top quality of it's first few seasons going for over 9 years. Although I enjoy NCIS and Grey's anatomy, they are not as good as they wer at the beginning, but with Supernatural I do not think the decline is as great as some people do, although this is just my opinion.
i am looking forward to season 10 as they have shaken things up a bit, which I think was needed as when you only really have two main cast members, and one who comes and goes as a main cast member, it is difficult as you do not have the same capacity for creating stories as in a show with a cast list of 5 or 6, where you can alternate between all the characters for storylines.
Team
ReplyDeleteFree Will + King of Hell? Team Hell + Heaven + Humanity?
LOL. I have no clue what can be used since everyone on the show is shown as using free will. It’s the term that I don’t like and has nothing to do with the characters.
I think the free will aspect of the show ended and is no longer a part
of the story. To me, free will is the ‘spark’ within the human soul that I
talked about in my first post; the thing that sets humanity apart from the
other entities on the show. Gamble showing that Cas misunderstood free will and that led to his downfall played with that…but I think that concept is not in Carver’s overall thinking at all.
Looks like not taking a sides in this fandom is worse than playing just for one team.
I agree that everyone has their favorite character, and there is nothing wrong
with that at all, and I don’t consider it taking sides when commenting on what
one liked and disliked in a season or in an episode. Nor do I think expressing those views makes one hate another character. I find your reviews refreshing, because you discuss the technical aspects of the craft of writing.
For instance, like you, at the end of the finale, I breathed a sigh of relief that
S9 was over for all the reasons you mention. I also fear that we won’t get better in S10, because we still have this team of writers and a showrunner that seems incapable of choosing a story and plotting it out. The goal seems to be to fanservice the various audience segments to keep the viewership and ratings up, and that seems to be working out well for him.
I had almost decided just to watch the premiere, the mid-season finale, and the finale next year. That would tell me the Winchesters’ part of the story, I thought. Not the case now. All the issues between the brothers introduced in 9.01 were dragged out all season and wrapped up in three lines of dialogue: I lied. Ain’t it a bitch. I am proud of us. The MoC story was introduced in 9.11 and was on again, off again until the finale, and we still have no indication of what it does to Dean, how it works, or what it means.
So, for me, it is not a matter of a show about two brothers only or that the story did not go the way one hoped for their favorite character. My objection is that the J2s lost their show this season.
Dean adopts everyone he meets and makes them “family,” so the idea that the nuclear family is what allows one to withstand all the chaos of life is done. Dean whacked off Magnus’ head and killed Abbadon, and lost to Metatron and Crowley. Sam did not save anyone and mostly was out of the action all season. Yes, Cas had his own story, is a lead, and won against Metatron, the big bad of the season.
Crowley, Cas, Garth, Jodi Mills, Abbadon, Gadreel – all of them had character growth. Neither Winchester did.
Angels have been turned into nothing more that bad and/or misguided humans; sometimes frat boys. Demons are nothing more than bad
humans. Monsters are misunderstood humans. They all practice free will in
the choices they make. The show is no longer a horror story about what makes humans human. We are exploring feelings with internal arcs
for two humans, an angel, and a demon. Crowley wants to be loved. Cas
wants to be understood. Garth overcame basic animal instincts, because he finally found unconditional love. Cain was able to overcome the MoC/FB effects because he found unconditional love. Jodi learned to grieve and will now foster a young adult. What's that got to do with anything in the story? Gadreel got his redemption and was a good support character to Cas, helping him take out Metatron.
I hope that explains my view towards an ensemble cast. Basically, the entire show has been changed from the one I invested nine years in and that means I have to a decision to make. I've got five months to do that.
Great review, Tessa! I look forward to your other two, esp. the one focused on the plots.
ReplyDeleteI believe I voted "okay" for this episode. I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it either. I do think it was the worst Supernatural finale ever. Every other finale (even 8) brought everything together. That didn't happen this year, IMO.
Unlike last year's plot w/the trials, I just couldn't get into the MOC plot for a lot of the reasons you mentioned in your last article. I had trouble figuring out what this arc is about and how worried I should be about Dean, esp. when his brother and friend weren't all that concerned. There are things that I know were supposed to be disturbing to me (i.e., the way he killed that kid in the GF episode or the way he killed Abbadon), but they just weren't. I think that was largely b/c of the non-reaction from those around him and the fact that we've seen Dean viciously kill before or advocate the killing of a crazy human. None of that was out of the ordinary to me. I don't know. I have no desire to re-watch the season, but from what I recall, the MOC plot didn't really jump start until a couple of episodes ago. The pacing was just bad, IMO. The entire second half of the season was a failure b/c the MOC arc failed to deliver for me. If others like it, great. I didn't.
The angel stuff is such a waste of time. I'd love to know if there are fans out there that actually cared what happened to the angels. They were so misused this year.
One gripe I have is wasted potential. Gadreel, the angels falling, Metatron - all represent wasted potential, esp. Gadreel. Seeing him interact w/Cas in this episode was great and showed his potential as a character. So, what do they do? They kill him! Great! We're left w/Metatron. I like CA, but Metatron is pretty boring. I found him much more interesting when he was beating down Dean. There was a lot of fire in that scene. He really should be dead on principle though, but then so should Crowley. I know they desire a support cast, but does it really need to be w/characters that should really be dead by now?!?!?
I love your #6 gripe! All I can do is SMH when I think about all the time wasted on that lame brother rift that I guess was wrapped up?!?!?! I'm not really sure.
Ugh . . . I think many of my gripes are about the overall season so I will end this here. I feel like I'm rambling.
I will say J2 sold their ending scenes for me. I agree that we've seen it before, but after Metatron stabbed Dean, I was in the moment w/them. It's a testament to their acting skills that my heartstrings were still tugged in a scene when have seen variations of throughout the years.
Well if things finally get "reversed" in season 10, I do hope you get your wish and Dean has all the story, does all this plot related stuff, but has no personality, no friends, and absolutely no POV.
ReplyDeleteI will happily get over the "story" not being about Sam if he actually grows and changes as a character, and interacts with new characters, like it has ALWAYS happened to Dean one way or another.
Just don't complain if Dean gets endlessly stuck as a plot device and nothing more. Cause you asked for it.
Oh, God, more of the same, and was this comment even necessary.
ReplyDeleteI think you should be more worried that both the Js lost their show this season. Cas had a separate angel story and he took out the big bad. That makes him a lead. Sam played support to the angel story once he was unpossessed and ended up not saving anyone. Let us all hope that we don't see a third season of Jealous!Sam.
Crowley got the big finale speech and all of the camera time during it, and Mark S. has been made a "regular;" a code word for a lead. Crowley has big plans for Dean, and Dean will be the support character to whatever those plans Crowley has.
None of the "issues" brought up for the Winchesters in their "internal arcs" was resolved. What we got were three lines that wrapped up their story: I lied. Ain't it a bitch. I am proud of us.
Cas got character growth. Crowley got character growth. Gadreel got character growth. Garth got character growth. Even Jodi Mills got character growth. Neither Winchester got any growth of any kind. The season was a wash for both of them, with Dean ending up being a plot tool to bring Crowley on-board.
Basically, whichever character one favors and all of the claimed bi-bro fans must realize that the Winchesters are each one of a cast of four.
"As you point out, the Winchesters were barely connected to Cas' angel story this season."
ReplyDeleteNot just this season, but previous seasons as well. I don't believe there will ever be a time when the Winchesters would be the main characters of an angel storyline. Which is why I'd rather the show was done with it. That and the fact that it is boring as hell.
I'm curious - what potential character growth do you see possible for the Winchesters?
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm speaking from the plot-pov - which means, the any character growth that would preclude certain plot developments is automatically ruled out.
The brothers can't come to the conclusion - once and for all - that they love each-other above everything else and would do anything for each-other and forgive anything come what may. That would eliminate all possibility of the regular seasonal brotherly conflict.
They can't stop keeping secrets from one-another. Because then there'd be nothing to fight about.
They are already fully devoted to hunting and doing what they have to in order to save the world.
They already know that not all monsters are bad and should be killed.
They're already wary about trusting supernatural creatures but do so when necessary.
They've both given up on having a normal or happy life.
I believe that we've seen most of all possible character developments Sam and and Dean could have. We're mostly retreading old ground.
So, I'd really like to know what are your expectations in this regard.
"To be fair, it is hard for a 9 year old show to keep the same level of quality that it had five years ago."
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, if the gripes are easily fixable, then it shouldn't be that hard to maintain quality. Paying atleast as much attentions to plot consistency and continuity as the fans is the least the writers could do.
I haven't seen The Walking Dead, so I can't speak to that - but I believe that any comparison to Game of Thrones is unfair and unwarranted.
ReplyDeleteGoT enjoys many advantages which Supernatural does not. It follows a series of books, which means both the plot and the character development have been fleshed out seasons in advance. Given the popularity of books themselves, the show-runners already know what would work and what wouldn't - unlike Supernatural, where they have to "see what sticks". There is also the advantage of having an ensemble cast. It gives you the opportunity to pace character development - something not possible for a show relying on two leads.
I don't believe Supernatural is trying to mimic GoT - that would require a massive increase in budget and a redefinition of the show's premise.
"The season started with Sam's angel possession and then the brotherly
ReplyDeletefeud. The MoC eradicated all that was built up in that part of the
season. Sam suddenly forgot he was mad at Dean and Gadreel reappeared as
an ally, both to help with the new, fresh and accepted-by-the-fans MoC
storyline."
I don't believe that is accurate. I think the show did a good job of showing how Sam's concern for Dean slowly overtook his anger and his determination to keep him at arm's length. The MoC storyline gave Sam a valid reason to get over the feud. His sudden acceptance of Gadreel into the fold makes much less sense.
"How do you know this? How would they know Dean might turn into a demon
when none of what we know about how demons are made up to this point
explain it? Making a random guess and seeing it come true does not
create an 'aha' moment?"
Given that Dean becoming a knight of hell has been a very popular theory floating around for ages - I'd say it was more than a guess. Everyone kept saying how the blade was changing him and his ability to counter Abaddon's powers was the final clue.
"I can only hope that Dean's story will last, and that maybe Dean
ReplyDeleteWinchester is the new Big Bad as well as the hero who saves himself next
season."
I doubt it. That would require Sam and Dean to be separated for the bulk of the season and that would definitely sink the show.
Since Carver is so fond of "internal arcs," I would like for him to take Dean to the realization that breaking the first seal in Hell was the important first step in stopping Lucifer and resolve in some fashion the biggest problem with Dean's self-esteem; which I think was that he broke, tortured souls in Hell, and liked it. Since this season seems to be exploring Dean's dark psyche, and he has always had that as part of his character, I don't believe Dean can have any self-worth until that is resolved and; therefore, cannot appreciate anything that he has done in his life. In fact, I don't think what Sam thinks of Dean is as important to Dean as the fact that he tortured and enjoyed it.
ReplyDeleteSam, quite frankly, needs to mature, and I hope we do not get a third season of Jealous!Sam. I would like Carver to take him to the Sam we saw in Point of No Return, where he not only showed a deep understanding of Dean; where he was sincere in the trust that he gave Dean. This is what Sam needs to realize; that his loyalty in family is his greatest reward and in realizing that, Sam will have everything that he has always wanted -- Dean's love, trust, and undying loyalty.
What I expect to see is a poached "What's wrong with Dean" story and more of the angel story. As far as I know, the gates to Heaven have not been opened (maybe just the one gate is, or maybe there is only one gate -- who knows) and the souls are still in the veil. Not only was none of the Winchesters 'issues' resolved, I did not see resolution to these two problems and; of course, Cas' grace issue.
I don't think Dean's self-esteem issues are tied to torturing souls in hell - he has had a very low opinion of himself since season 1.
ReplyDeleteEither way, if Dean's self-worth issues are resolved, then a great potential source of angst and internal conflict would just die out - so I doubt they'd go down that road.
Similarly, Sam's attitude adjustment would preclude the possibility of another fight between them - which means its another thing that writers are unlikely to do.
These particular character development storylines have been on the horizon since season 6 - but they are also "story-enders". As long as these goals are still out there, the characters have a direction to move in, even if they're moving back and forth in that regard. Take Cas for example - his character-arc was about going for free-will above obeying orders and then learning the consequences of using free-will recklessly. But after that, his character has been floundering.
I took it as they figured Metatron wanted to be the one to deal with him. Since he'd said he'd expected Dean to show up. Who are they to take that away from their GOOOOOOOOD? That whole bit was silly as hell. I can only guess he wanted human followers so he didn't have to rely on the tablet for his God Powers. Speaking of God, when the hell is SHE ever gonna show? I was half expecting her to pop up at the very end and pimp slap Metatron into the next f**king galaxy. Then look at the angels and go, "What the **** have you idiots been doing since I went to play skeeball???"
ReplyDeleteAs a Christian, I really don't want God to ever show up on this show. I can't imagine how He'd be written w/that whole "bad father" bit they rant on about so much!
ReplyDeleteI think the fact that fans are commenting on the Grimm finale in the comments rather than the SPN finale says it all.
ReplyDeleteWatching the finale I was drumming my foot halfway through, thinking "when is it going to get good?" When it finished, I was like "Huh, guess I better check out Constantine." I'm seriously thinking about not watching next year, because there was just nothing I watch for anymore.
I think this was purely brudda/wincest fanservice. They got their bro mo (brother moment). Carver cleared the board of baddies and kept production costs down.
Cas got abducted (again) and got himself out of it. That's all he ever does anymore. Usually because of doing something to help the brothers and thereby painting a target on his back. Not that they'll ever take a risk to help him, since the brothers are always and only about each other.
Dean - dead by hobgoblin - with no decent special effects and a laughable fight scene. It would have been so much better if they'd had him try and kill Abbadon and fail, then had it culminate in a knock-down drag out here and just kept Metatron in their back pocket for next season.
Sam - liar, unable to save his brother, willing to make demon deals (have they learned nothing), and a totally jerk and hypocrite, based on the past two seasons. They took any integrity he had and ruined it to give the brudda fans a last minute scene of moon-eyed mangst.