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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - Stairway to Heaven?

14 May 2014

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141 comments:

  1. BoxManLocke14 May 2014 at 03:07

    That was just awful.
    The brothers felt like guest-stars, they killed Tessa, Dean's now more punchable than badass, Sam get spat on and goes in his room to skulk, Cas and Sam are horribly slow to realize something is seriously wrong with Dean...
    As for the Angel stuff, it can't wait for it to end. Metatron is unsufferable, and not in a Zachariah way. I just want him gone. But I get that the writers love him so much, I mean this is a character that wan "write" his way out of any situation.


    The only thing I liked is that Sam, Dean and Castiel are reunited, and that Gadreel changed sides.

    I never thought I'd be, but I'm worried for the finale now.

    ReplyDelete
  2. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 03:13

    Dean really has become bloodthirsty. Twice now he ruined something that could have been helpful. Sigh.


    I actually think this isn't a bad storyline but think this season overall has been pretty rough. I liked last season more and that's saying something.


    I mean really, writers? WTF? Tessa was a REAPER not an ANGEL and retconning that was stupid. I was surprised they remembered she and Dean met when he was dying.


    Making her brain washed and killing her didn't do any favors. I've had it up to my neck with these writers. Season 10 better not be worst again.

    ReplyDelete
  3. ShOwFrEaK14 May 2014 at 03:18

    Yeah, I thought the same thing about them declaring Tessa as an Angel and not as a Reaper. Well, that's F***ed up....

    ReplyDelete
  4. lala214 May 2014 at 03:18

    The retcon involving Tessa was some nonsense!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Lise14 May 2014 at 03:20

    Loved it! Loved it! http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lts9wjUY2P1r1tjqjo1_500.gif
    Dean Dark Yes! Yes!

    ReplyDelete
  6. thetrenchcoatofcastiel14 May 2014 at 03:22

    So...was I the only one who - just for a second - was expecting something...um...different, after Metatron said, "He's in love"?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Jen14 May 2014 at 03:29

    So over the angel storylines and though I expected it, Tessa joining the line of SPN women to return only to be killed off was incredibly annoying. Hope the finale does something a lot better than this.

    ReplyDelete
  8. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 03:30

    It's like they don't know the difference between angels and reapers or decided they needed a familiar face no matter who they are. I can't believe some of these writers have been around since Season 5. Watching 1 Tessa episode they'd have no excuse to make her an angel. Especially after 4x15 where only a scythe could kill her.

    ReplyDelete
  9. lala214 May 2014 at 03:31

    What can I say? That was horrible.


    Am I supposed to care if the angels return to Heaven or not? I honestly don't. Stay. Go. Who cares? It's a shame that the season is ending on this angel civil war problem. It's just not that interesting to me. I have no stakes in the outcome since I honestly and truly don't care what happens.


    Don't even get me started on the Tessa is an "angel" instead of a reaper angle. What was the point of bringing her back anyway just to kill her off? But then Harry and Ed were brought back to destroy their quirky friendship to? I just don't get it. Dean wasn't even curious about her "non-reaper" status. I thought they would at least act like she had "gone rogue," but they didn't even bother to explain her new status.


    I like Sam was willing and ready to give Gadreel a chance. Haha! Okay. It makes his whole possession entirely pointless since he doesn't seem to care all that much about it.


    And why didn't Sam take (AND KEEP) the Blade when they found Dean tied up?!?!?! How did Dean end up w/it again if Sam is so concerned about how Dean acts when holding the Blade?

    ReplyDelete
  10. lala214 May 2014 at 03:33

    You're absolutely right! Their crap writing is inexcusable. She has always been a reaper. The boys needed to die to see her last time! How in the world did she suddenly become an angel?!?!?!?!


    Ugh . . . . SMH!

    ReplyDelete
  11. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 03:36

    I'm really about to reach the max crap level I can take. I really want to stick with the show, but so much has been ruined. Is this Supernatural or not? It's really starting to be some different show but with the same characters twisted for the writer's sakes. We've had bad in Season 1-7, but Carver has been steepening the downhill slope even faster than Gamble did.

    ReplyDelete
  12. MythAl14 May 2014 at 03:37

    Sam is so slow that it is ridiculous. Seriously these writers have to dumb him down to make whatever plot works. And worst than Dean being all arrogant, was Sam leaving the room to sulk. For God's sake, I was yelling "Tell him back Sam!" or "Punch this di.k to oblivion." And after that we have a Dean and Cas bonding time. Unbelievable.


    What I didn't like about this MoC storyline (besides what I have told already) is that Dean's angry is so random. One minute he is angry to an angel, then next almost crying about Tessa. I honestly thought he would kill Castiel followers when they locked him up, but no he was there. And again when they asked Castiel to kill him, but no it was all about making sad faces, because he thought Cas would kill him. Why he wasn't angry about that? Why it is so random?

    ReplyDelete
  13. MythAl14 May 2014 at 03:38

    You raised some serious valid points. Sam is flat out imbecile. He should have take that blade at the beginning.

    ReplyDelete
  14. MythAl14 May 2014 at 03:40

    I'm really close to reach it too.

    ReplyDelete
  15. lala214 May 2014 at 03:42

    Thanks :-)

    He should have take that blade at the beginning.

    He sure should have! Tessa and Gadreel wouldn't be dead if Sam had taken and hidden that Blade somewhere, esp. since he is soooo concerned about it! And even if he did trust that Dean didn't take the Blade w/them, when he saw that Tessa killed herself w/the Blade, he should have kept his hands on it or asked Cas to float it away somewhere. Cas has wings, right?

    ReplyDelete
  16. Thirty14 May 2014 at 03:44

    When the "Revenge Of The Nerds" callback is as good as an episode gets, you're hurting.

    Hopefully, it is setting up something interesting.

    ReplyDelete
  17. lala214 May 2014 at 03:47

    I hear you. I feel the same way. I've been watching since this show premiered, but I can count on ONE hand the number of episodes I would willingly re-watch and I don't even need all my fingers!


    There's only one I can think of right now that I would happily re-watch (the one where they kicked Gadreel out of Sam's mind), but I have no interest in seeing any of the other episodes. That's sad. There was a time when I could re-watch episodes numerous times. I used to record them. I couldn't stand last season, and this season has been even worse than last season!

    ReplyDelete
  18. Missanniie114 May 2014 at 03:50

    No, Cas has no wings :)

    ReplyDelete
  19. lala214 May 2014 at 03:52

    . . . was Sam leaving the room to sulk.

    I know! What was that?!?!?!?! I was sort of reminded of when Rick on The Walking Dead declared it was a "Ricktatorship" . . . . . but not in a good way! I was expecting Sam to say, "Excuse me! I'm not gonna just do whatever you say" or to fight back in some capacity but he just stomps away like an angry teen!

    after that we have a Dean and Cas bonding time. Unbelievable.

    LOL!!!! I know, right? I was thinking, "Cas, I know you're upset but you didn't just hear Dean declaring it's a dictatorship to Sam? Does that concern you at all?" Dean interacted completely normal w/Cas in that scene.

    It was just plain weird!

    ReplyDelete
  20. lala214 May 2014 at 03:53

    Thanks :-)


    I couldn't remember. Well, Sam still should have hidden that Blade somewhere instead of handing it right back to Dean! That was just silly!

    ReplyDelete
  21. Justin Baptista14 May 2014 at 04:03

    Dean's Mark of Cain is sure making things worst. It is largely because of him that Metatron is winning. I really hate Metatron. Such a swarmy little man. I have been waiting for Sam to bring up his former demon blood addiction as a way to bond with Dean over his problem. Hopefully that will happen sometime in the near-future.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Kacie Brandes14 May 2014 at 04:09

    I thought death said earlier in the series that reapers were a form of angels just like cupids.

    ReplyDelete
  23. D Fink14 May 2014 at 04:17

    What a crappy episode. After The Originals blew me away, I was totally let down with this crap. I hate to say this, but I hope Dean kills Sam in the season finale because the writers already have killed him. Sam has zero emotions, zero storyline, zero everything. Sam might as well be dead because now the writers have him serving no purpose what so ever.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Justin Baptista14 May 2014 at 04:25

    Dean's Mark of Cain is sure making things worst.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Sara14 May 2014 at 04:38

    Nope. I thought he was going to say that Castiel was in love with Dean/the Winchesters.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Sara14 May 2014 at 04:38

    I still don't like that the reapers are now angels. That doesn't make sense to me - they should be their own race.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Peter J414 May 2014 at 04:40

    Dean might have killed him if he had tried.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Peter J414 May 2014 at 04:41

    But then Harry and Ed were brought back to destroy their quirky friendship too so I guess that's just par for the course w/these writers?


    At least they got to live.


    I don't really care about the reaper canon changes. SPN destroyed the reapers when they brought in Death to tell endless food jokes. I'm just angry and upset that once again a longstanding female character is killed off for shock value. No one is shocked. No one.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Peter J414 May 2014 at 04:46

    What I didn't like about this MoC storyline (besides what I have told already) is that Dean's fury is so random. One minute he is angry to an angel, then next almost crying about Tessa. I honestly thought he would kill Castiel followers when they locked him up, but no he was there. And again when they asked Castiel to kill him, but no it was all about making sad faces, because he thought Cas would kill him. Why he wasn't angry about that? Why it is so random?

    I wouldn't say it's that random. He's most angry when he's in situations where he is amped up, like hunts, or fighting Abaddon. He was mostly shocked when he saw what Tessa did. he probably did fight back against the angels, but even with his stronger abilities, he's still just one guy in a roomful of angels. If Cas had tried to kill him he likely would have been angry.

    And worst than Dean being all arrogant, was Sam leaving the room to sulk. For God's sake, I was yelling "Tell him back Sam!" or "Punch this di.k to oblivion."



    Sam was hurt but he was also likely scared.


    I don't think Sam's "slow." He knows where Dean is going. He's worried. And he likely also believes if he makes the wrong move, Dean will kill him.


    I'm not sure he's wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Peter J414 May 2014 at 04:48

    Dean really has become bloodthirsty. Twice now he ruined something that could have been helpful. Sigh.


    I don't think Tessa was his fault. Gadreel...eh. To be honest I wish he'd killed him.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Peter J414 May 2014 at 04:51

    I am 100% done with female characters back on this show just to die. When Cas was supposed to decide whether to kill Dean, I just kept wondering if he would kill the female angel.


    I'm not even really sure how much more of this I will watch. I will watch for now, but I'm at the point where if this is not addressed by the show (and no Misha's con statement that he was punished for does not count) I may quit.


    I feel like I mostly just say the same annoying things over and over so I doubt I'd be missed, but if I do go, I just wanted to tell everyone goodbye.

    ReplyDelete
  32. MythAl14 May 2014 at 04:51

    I respect your opinion, but I think you are giving too much credit to these writers when it comes to Sam. The fact that he went to his room to sulk and there was a Dean and Cas bonding time soon after that outburst, just points to me that Dean's emotions are random, but when he is angry, the focus is on Sam. As always.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Peter J414 May 2014 at 04:53

    I think he's angry because Sam hurt him and because he blames Sam for his broken life and all kinds of things he can't process. I don't think we're supposed to feel it is right, I think we got some of those Sam scenes earlier in the episode with Cas, and with the gun under his pillow, to show us how scared he is and how Dean is affecting him.


    But I can see why you are upset by it.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Peter J414 May 2014 at 05:05

    I think Sam has become so defined by Dean that they may feel the only way to change him is through Dean. We need a lot more of Sam and a far more consistent and strong POV for him.

    ReplyDelete
  35. MythAl14 May 2014 at 05:06

    They won't and that is where I think this show is going. To have Jensen impressed when he read the finale script, Jared pumped and Dabb saying that the finale will explore uncharted territory, I'm going with a brother vs brother situation, one kills the other or something happens to Sam, so he gets all juiced up too to be even with Dean.

    ReplyDelete
  36. MythAl14 May 2014 at 05:07

    I agree.

    ReplyDelete
  37. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 05:11

    He gave Tessa the opportunity and he could have killed Gadreel after they'd at least got more info from him.

    ReplyDelete
  38. lala214 May 2014 at 05:12

    Peter, I also thought Cas was going to kill that female angel!


    Yeah . . .Tessa's appearance was completely pointless. She could have been played by an unknown male, and the same information could have been learned. I'm sick of old characters being brought back to be killed off (Sarah, Tessa) or ruined (Harry and Ed)!


    I'm nearing my "done" point b/c out of 22 episodes, there is only 1 I would voluntarily re-watch! That's pathetic. Last year, there were only 4 out of 23 episodes I would re-watch! I expect to like NO episodes next year. Haha!

    ReplyDelete
  39. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 05:14

    That came too close to shipping for me, then the second part of the line came and I was like whew.


    Still the shippers must have squealed.

    ReplyDelete
  40. lala214 May 2014 at 05:16

    Haha! True, but it was still unnecessary destruction of characters for no reason.


    I hear you about Tessa. Her appearance in this episode was completely pointless. They retconned her past and species only to murder her off in the same episode. I liked Tessa, but other than her death being completely pointless, I didn't particularly care.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Peter J414 May 2014 at 05:16

    I think Tessa would have probably killed herself some other way. I still hated the scene though.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Peter J414 May 2014 at 05:17

    I could see that happening. I felt like they did brother wars so much in season 4, that it wouldn't be new, but then, I don't make the show.

    ReplyDelete
  43. lala214 May 2014 at 05:17

    I guess I must have zoned out during the scene. What was said?

    ReplyDelete
  44. MythAl14 May 2014 at 05:17

    I was capable to answer wherever questions would be made about past episodes, just giving me their names. Now I can barely remember them and don't want to watch again. Sad.

    ReplyDelete
  45. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 05:17

    Not in my memory reserves. Remember in 4x15 Tessa was scared of angels and Death was her boss. Death didn't have much going on with God except maybe an uneasy business relationship (one where he wanted to kill God in the end).

    ReplyDelete
  46. lala214 May 2014 at 05:18

    Yup! If Dean didn't have the Blade, he would have used Gadreel for info/help and then killed him. He killed Gadreel before he even got any intel. Bad move on his part.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Peter J414 May 2014 at 05:19

    I have a feeling they may be back, although who knows.


    I just keep hoping we'll get some rewind moment and a lot of this with Tessa, Kevin, etc. is undone. I know it isn't likely though.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Peter J414 May 2014 at 05:19

    I don't think Gadreel is dead, although it looked like he might be in the previews for next week.

    ReplyDelete
  49. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 05:20

    Yeah I can name episodes and plots and quotes from Season 1-5 for the majority of it, some of Season 6-7, and Season 8-9 a handful (less than for Season 9). I just don't repeat watch the later seasons like I used to do for the others.

    ReplyDelete
  50. MythAl14 May 2014 at 05:20

    That is why I don't understand Jensen saying the mark makes Dean more focused on the job. It's not about the job. It's about the killing. He cannot see past that, and it is screwing wherever informations they can get.

    ReplyDelete
  51. MythAl14 May 2014 at 05:21

    He dies but not before he passes his grace to Cas or does something to Sam. That's what I'm guessing

    ReplyDelete
  52. lala214 May 2014 at 05:22

    Agreed! Way too much credit.


    As usual, they wanted Dean and guest star/recurring star to share a moment w/o Sam so Sam was sent off screen. It's happened numerous times. Only this time, Sam seemed especially childish for just stomping away instead of confronting Dean on his outrageous statement.

    ReplyDelete
  53. MythAl14 May 2014 at 05:22

    When I think about what they did to Tessa, I want to cry.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Peter J414 May 2014 at 05:22

    That would make sense. I keep thinking they will have Cas as a human again, unless he gives him just enough grace to survive the battle.


    I keep wondering if he will redeem himself, and this isn't really redemption, yet.

    ReplyDelete
  55. MythAl14 May 2014 at 05:23

    Lucky you!

    ReplyDelete
  56. Peter J414 May 2014 at 05:23

    I was 99% sure it would happen and it still sucks and it still makes me angry. And it pretty much ruined the entire episode for me. I can't remember anything beyond that mess. I don't understand why the show thinks viewers need to see women slaughtered and why the show thinks women have no purpose of their own beyond men.

    ReplyDelete
  57. lala214 May 2014 at 05:24

    If Sam in any way, shape, or form harms/kills Dean, he will never recover w/this audience. Some still hate Sam to this day for S4 or S1's Asylum.


    I think if Sam were so afraid of Dean, he'd be trying to keep a better lock on that Blade.

    ReplyDelete
  58. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 05:25

    Metatron said that Castiel is in love...*pause to break sentence/dramatics*...with humanity.


    lol

    ReplyDelete
  59. Jo14 May 2014 at 05:25

    was it wrong that i found joy in the reversal between the brothers when Dean told Sam that them fighting together isn't a team effort... it reminded me of when Sam told Dean he didn't care for him anymore. I was hoping that was a nice stab in the heart for Sam.

    ReplyDelete
  60. lala214 May 2014 at 05:27

    I'm thinking Dean will kill Sam.

    ReplyDelete
  61. lala214 May 2014 at 05:30

    I didn't know JA said that, but I agree w/you. Dean doesn't seem focused on the job w/the Blade; as you said, he seems focused on killing! Even Crowley confirms that he wants to kill any and everything all the time now that he has the MoC and carried the Blade.

    ReplyDelete
  62. lala214 May 2014 at 05:30

    Yeah . . . he looked pretty dead in that preview!

    ReplyDelete
  63. lala214 May 2014 at 05:31

    Ahhh . . . .I hadn't thought of that!

    ReplyDelete
  64. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 05:31

    They've had brother vs. brother for most of the upper seasons, at least big fights/arguments anyways.

    ReplyDelete
  65. lala214 May 2014 at 05:32

    Ahhhh . . . . thanks :-)

    ReplyDelete
  66. lala214 May 2014 at 05:33

    Haha! I just hear angels talking to each other. No matter what they say, it's the same white noise to me. The angel plot is beyond boring!

    ReplyDelete
  67. lala214 May 2014 at 05:35

    I hope they stay gone and away from these horrible writers. They've already been ruined. I'd hate to see them further destroyed under Carver's poison pen!


    A rewind would be nice! They can reset the show to the end of S7.

    ReplyDelete
  68. lala214 May 2014 at 05:39

    I'm glad it's not just me. When people mention episodes like "Holy Terror" or I can't even think of another title to use as an example . . . . I draw a blank. I couldn't tell you what happened in HT or what happened last week. I am honestly drawing a blank as to what last week's episode was about. It's a shame.

    ReplyDelete
  69. lala214 May 2014 at 05:42

    Me too!


    I know the first half of S6 pretty well b/c I thoroughly enjoyed all the episodes up until the Titanic one. In S7, after the Spike/Cordelia, I don't remember much. I used to know the order of the episodes! Now, I struggle to remember what happened last week!

    ReplyDelete
  70. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 05:46

    True for me as well. I can't remember the episode number for that werewolf episode with Garth, for example. Or the name, off the top of my head.


    Heck, I hated Swap Meat back in Season 5 and never watched it since but still remember the name and plot.

    ReplyDelete
  71. kerinda14 May 2014 at 05:51

    Hey thank writers for making Dean more Heartless that's great! WOW! just WOW!

    ReplyDelete
  72. MythAl14 May 2014 at 05:52

    I remember Kevin being killed in HT and that's about it.

    ReplyDelete
  73. lala214 May 2014 at 05:54

    Oh . . . that's the title of that episode! I liked the one right after that.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Ksana14 May 2014 at 05:56

    Ok, I am not an expert in the matter but even I remember that in some religions Reapers are Angels. Even Death is defined as Grim Reaper or Angel of Death in Judaism for example. And correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember show specifically canonized reapers being NOT angels.

    Actually, there is a quote from Bible, Matthew 13:39:
    "…38"and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. "
    I still hate that Tessa was killed with no purpose but this is entirely different complain.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Peter J414 May 2014 at 05:56

    True, but season 4 was the one where they wanted us to think they'd kill each other (not through angel vessels, but each other).

    ReplyDelete
  76. Peter J414 May 2014 at 05:57

    It's so obvious there I almost wonder if it's a fakeout, but who knows. I get why he has fans but I'm a little sad that if he dies there will a dozen times the backlash there was for Tessa tonight.

    ReplyDelete
  77. lala214 May 2014 at 05:57

    Haha! I feel the same way. Most S8 and S9 episodes I draw a blank when the title is referenced.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Peter J414 May 2014 at 05:58

    I think he meant that Dean blocks out the pain.

    ReplyDelete
  79. lala214 May 2014 at 05:58

    That makes sense.

    ReplyDelete
  80. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 06:02

    Yep. The trust issues and denial and need for power are just swapped.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Ksana14 May 2014 at 06:02

    Still there were not any canon established that reapers are not angels. You guys freaking out for nothing really. there are different kinds of angels with different purposes ,powers, jobs and bosses. Cupids, for example.

    ReplyDelete
  82. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 06:09

    Cupids are killed by angel swords. Reapers were only killed with a scythe. Reapers could never been seen. Reapers were under Death's command only. They were impartial. Rogues were killed. Reapers were afraid of angels (apparently).


    If your fine with past mythology being totally glossed over fine, but I'm not. It's a ret-con pure and simple. The writers wanted to bring Tessa back but didn't want to do a reaper story, so being lazy the way they are they said "hey, let's make her an angel without explaining and kill her off 2 seconds later. Whoo".


    I think they write drunk.

    ReplyDelete
  83. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 06:24

    There was *no* canon until now that said they were angels. It was made clear they were quite different from the start - one being reapers are until DEATH's rule, not God's or anyone trying to be God. Cupid was always considered an angel from the minute he popped up. Making excuses doesn't mean it should be true. It's a ret-con pure and simple.

    ReplyDelete
  84. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 06:29

    Excuses, excuses. This is Supernatural, not the bible. There are a lot of differences.


    Death is a Horseman, he rules over the reapers - not God as with the other angels.


    Even if we could excuse it as her being some type of angel, she should not die the same way as a normal angel cause she was very different.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Peter J414 May 2014 at 06:30

    I got the feeling that may have been one of the reasons they had her die by the First Blade, not an angel blade, but I don't know. None of it made sense to me. I literally have no idea why they brought her back.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Peter J414 May 2014 at 06:31

    I can remember the more recent episode names and numbers as that's when I started keeping track more closely to what aired when; my problem is that I do truly enjoy some episodes, but the bad ones are so bad they just about kill the whole show for me.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Kevin14 May 2014 at 06:33

    The extended trailer shows what appears to be a dead Gadrael laying on the ground. Does anyone think he's actually dead? Hard to tell from the brief trailer clip. Didn't expect him to be dispatched so quickly... other then that I felt like this was a solid episode. Don't like the recon though on the Reaper lore.

    ReplyDelete
  88. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 06:34

    It's so much more complicated than that. All the angels see each other as a group, lots consider each other brothers and sisters but reapers were totally separate from the rest. Tessa feared angels in episode 15 of Season 4! Cupid wasn't afraid of Cas but she was.


    Maybe they're related but they're separate species. Death rules over the reapers, God over the angels (or whoever is acting like god at the moment).

    ReplyDelete
  89. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 06:39

    Oh and the angel sigils! The reapers could get past them but not the angels (in the 15th episode of Season 4).

    ReplyDelete
  90. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 06:39

    Oh and the angel sigils. The reapers could get past them but not the angels (in the 15th episode of Season 4).

    ReplyDelete
  91. BlueStar (aka CP)14 May 2014 at 06:41

    They've ret-conned so much mythology how can it be all explained. Werewolves, reapers, etc.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Ginger14 May 2014 at 07:05

    I have never been bothered by the females that get killed on this show. Just as many men get killed as women do, so that's not even a legitimate complaint in my book -- nor do I want a permanent female cast member. If I wanted a woman hanging off either brother, then I would have dropped SPN a long time ago, because there are 139 stations on TV and every one of them have their requisite man/woman mix with supposedly tough women making the men look stupid, and there is a whole lot of them better written than SPN is these days.
    I liked Tessa in all of her previous episodes, but now that they have made reapers into angels, I didn't care one bit that she was killed off.
    Now, had they loosened Ellen's apron strings of Jo, I would have loved Ellen being on the show as a recurring guest star, and I am still ticked off as all get out that they killed off Rufus. If they put somebody like Ezra (Eliot Ness' female Bobby) on to show up once in a while, I would love that.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Ginger14 May 2014 at 07:17

    If reapers are angels, then demons can possess angels. The YED possessed Tessa in In My Time of Dying. Also, Dean had no reason to kill himself in Death Takes a Holiday or in Appointment in Samarra to talk to Tessa. It's these kinds of messes you get when canon is trashed at will.

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  94. Ross14 May 2014 at 09:40

    Reapers are not freaking Angels, damn.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Ross14 May 2014 at 10:27

    I need to vent now, it's really bugging me. Let's have a look at reasons why it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that Reapers are now Angels (this is off the top of my head so please correct me if I'm wrong).

    - They have their own true form, which is like some floaty ghost thing.
    - Only dead people/Angels can see them (like when Cas saw 100's in that city standing on rooftops and stuff and nobody else could see them)
    - Dean had to die in order to summon Tessa
    - They can be 'chained' to people and forced to do their will
    - They work for Death, not God. Death doesn't work for God
    - Anti-angel sigils don't work on them

    I know it seems like I'm nitpicking, but this is a stupid thing to retcon on. Especially just to bring back the third longest surviving character (after Sam and Dean), and the longest surviving female character just to kill her after two scenes.

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  96. Hellboy14 May 2014 at 10:33

    Well, Tessa says she can alter perception in season 2, so that can go towards reapers making themselves visible.

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  97. Ross14 May 2014 at 10:35

    Fair enough, thanks! Can all angels do that? Or just reapers and Metatron?

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  98. Ross14 May 2014 at 10:38

    Nope

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  99. GodDamnAngel14 May 2014 at 11:31

    The reapers-as-angels retcon was started back in season 8 with that horrendous Taxi Driver episode, then continued this season with the same pair of writers in I'm No Angel and Holy Terror. This episode was just following along with the already established retcons from those eps, which I agree were stupid; however, there is zero weight to the idea that the retcon was done purely to facilitate Tessa's return.

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  100. Canadagraphs14 May 2014 at 12:02

    So underwhelmed. Not just this episode, the entire season.
    This episode had a few great comedic moments with Cas & Metatron at least.
    But the overall story, feel and character development is dreadful.
    I like Castiels character, but the vomit inducing writer fan service to his specific fans by talking about his looks like it matters to the story was dreadful.

    Deans turn to the hate filled killer is boring. Maybe if before his change the writers explained in more detail how the MoC was going to do this, we would accept it more. But really, it feels pointless & random right now.
    I gave it "ok" and I think it was a bit generous.

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  101. lala214 May 2014 at 12:20

    Great post! I couldn't agree more w/you. Tessa was brought back to die. Her entire history was retconned for no reason, and then she was killed off the show. Why? What was the point of that?

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  102. lala214 May 2014 at 12:23

    Don't give up your point b/c you are right. The history that was established for reapers was that you had to be DEAD or dying in order to see them. That was their history until Carver came along.



    Yes, she could alter perception . . . for those who were DYING. Dean didn't even remember meeting her until S5. Reapers couldn't just show up in the real world.

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  103. lala214 May 2014 at 12:33

    Oh, that's good. My problem is I haven't truly enjoyed an episode in a long time so the titles and content escape me at times. If someone tells me what an episode was about, I'll remember though. I just can't seem to remember on my own. Haha!

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  104. Ross14 May 2014 at 12:34

    I would have been less annoyed if Dean had killed her properly. To show how the mark was taking over him and stuff like that (because she is the longest surviving character after the boys, so her death at deans intentional hands due to the mark would have had far more weight behind it). But her being back and dying the way she did was just not needed. There was no point for her coming back. When it was first announced that she was coming back I thought it was great. I loved her character and I loved the reapers, and I thought she was coming back to the show so we could see how crowded the afterlife was getting with souls not being able to move on, I thought we were going to experience and see it somehow and in my head it was going to be creepy and epic. But it was mentioned offhand and that was all we got. It's just a shame really.

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  105. Desizinnia14 May 2014 at 12:36

    I hated that Tessa died, but overall, I loved this episode. I loved all the Destiel. I loved the scenes with Sam and Cas together (please more of this in season 10!) I loved that Cas is with Sam and Dean. I loved that smile Dean gave Cas there at the end, even when Dean is under the Mark of Cain's influence. I love to hate Metatron too lol When he said Cas is 'in love .... with humanity' I almost screamed lol I swear he was going to say 'with Dean'.

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  106. lala214 May 2014 at 12:38

    CP is right. Plus, I just remembered that IMTOD established that reapers couldn't be killed. When Dean and Sam learn that a reaper is after Dean, they realize there is nothing they can do.

    The reason is matter is b/c Tessa was written as a reaper. She is NOT an angel. There was no need to bring her back and change her species only to kill her off! The same things she said to Dean could have been said to him by any of Metatron's bombers. The entire thing was pointless!

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  107. lala214 May 2014 at 12:42

    But it was b/c Tessa is a reaper, not an angel. They wanted her back, but as an angel and didn't care that she was introduced as a reaper! What was so special about the Dean/Tessa scenes last night? Why couldn't her dialogue been given to any old character? I'm sure Cas and Sam (and the other angels) would have still been upset w/Dean for killing Joe, the angel instead of Tessa, the reaper!



    Her return was pointless!

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  108. lala214 May 2014 at 12:46

    I didn't remember that reapers could be killed. I thought they couldn't be b/c of IMTOD. In any event, they are killed a completely different way than angels b/c they aren't angels!

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  109. lala214 May 2014 at 13:01

    Agreed! I read an interview w/her where she discussed how interesting it was that reapers are now angels, and I knew her return would be horrible. I would have loved if that had kept her as a true reaper who discussed the lost soul issue, but then they already retconned reapers last year so she was always going to be angel.

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  110. sue14 May 2014 at 13:30

    Really how will they bring sam back if dean kills him?? I don't think they will go there again we did that already beginning this season?

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  111. Michele Klinger14 May 2014 at 13:41

    already psyched for the finale!!!!!!!


    but I have to admit, the Spears and Aguilera aliases had me laughing so hard!

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  112. RLRaGE14 May 2014 at 13:52

    that's pretty much screws up some previous seasons, Death would known she was an Angel, and wasn't Tessa one of the reapers to get killed to break the one of the 66 seals and yet the place they were kept was warded against Angels. This episode pissed me off doing that to the Tessa story line.

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  113. RLRaGE14 May 2014 at 13:55

    I'm calling it now, dean becomes a demon.

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  114. Lise14 May 2014 at 14:13

    Me too ..... xD

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  115. AliAriAnn14 May 2014 at 14:50

    Or, you know, they could at least ask us. We remember those details (and for free!), why can't they?Is their job!

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  116. Ross14 May 2014 at 14:53

    At this point I think they need to fire the vast majority of the writers and hire new people, people that will at least check the superwiki if they don't watch the show.

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  117. Indy14 May 2014 at 15:16

    I loved this episode!

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  118. sdwhiskey14 May 2014 at 15:18

    62% say Awesome - and I agree! Well except for Tessa dying, I hated that. But I thought it was exciting, especially all that is happening to Dean because of the MoC and the blade. I don't think Gad is dead, just wounded. I wonder if Cas will try to heal him (so they can use him against Metatron), or if he even can? Or maybe Gad will sacrifice his grace and give it to Cas? I think either one of those scenarios is a real possibility.

    Dean is trying to be rational but you can tell that he's actually just barely holding it together. I saw a screen capture of a Dean/Tessa scene where he's calm and controlled Dean, and then in a moment, his expression completely transforms into Dark!Dean (HOT!). And I loved how he calmly approached Gad to shake his hand, and then just ... snapped. Oh, and LOL @ "This is a dictatorship!" Ah, I love it. Wonderful performance by Jensen. I can't wait until next week!

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  119. Audrey14 May 2014 at 15:35

    Think so too.
    We got a big announcement that Misha is in season 10. Are we sure Jared is ? I am started to worry a lot.
    I know both J signed last year but it doesn't mean TPTB has to keep him.

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  120. Audrey14 May 2014 at 16:09

    MISSING
    show about 2 brothers who cared about each other more than anyone in the world, were into a family business, hunting things and saving people.
    Lost it 2 years ago and can't find it back, can someone help me find it, please. It is very important to me, I was taking some much pleasure from watching it.
    Now it's been replaced by a very boring and predictable show, about angels and it makes me very very depressed.

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  121. Paxnos14 May 2014 at 17:29

    I have mixed feelings. While FINALLY the plot has started to move, Dean
    was such a scumbag it annoyed me to hell. Ughh. D: I hope that Mark of
    Cain stuff is done next episode. While this is something fresh and new,
    this Dean really annoys me so much.


    That dictatorship-scene made me think of Rick Grimes (The Walking Dead), though. I'm not the only one. :D
    What I found weird is how Castiel didn't even mention that in the conversation after. It was...odd, how the situation flipped from Dean being the biggest asshole ever seen to bonding with Castiel?
    And wasn't Tessa a reaper? They kind of pretended like she always was an angel.. o.o And the implications of what they're doing to Reaper law makes a lot of old episodes seem stupid.


    So, yeah, i'm not sure what I think.

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  122. Lord Nikon14 May 2014 at 18:09

    Awesome episode. But my only question is will this blade be the death of Dean again?

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  123. Audrey14 May 2014 at 19:43

    I agree they messed up too much the history of spn.
    I don't like to say it but I really don't like this dean even if Jensen played it wonderfully but I hate it.
    You talked about the walking dead. I don't remember who and what for but someone said about it that when fans are able to guess what is going to happen in a show, this show is dead.
    I am very sad to say that lately, nothing surprised me in the episodes.
    Here, who haven't seen coming that Dean would take the blade with him, that something bad would happen because of it, that Metatron was behind the cult of Cass, that Gadreel was going to turn his back on Metatron (how come Metatron did nothing with the angry face he kept, by the way I much prefered Jared's portrayal of Gadreel, I am more and more annoyed with Penikett's acting.) and of course what a shock to see Dean "killing" Gadreel.
    My very last hope for this show is to be as surprised as TPTB said we will be about the final but if it is as many think Sam trying shooting Dean to stop him or Dean trying to kill his brother, they will have failed.

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  124. ScottA14 May 2014 at 21:08

    13 episodes and hire horror writers, not sitcom writers.

    ReplyDelete
  125. ScottA14 May 2014 at 21:17

    Cut it to 13 episodes and get better horror writers.

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  126. ScottA14 May 2014 at 21:29

    Any thought about Sam/Cas cutting Dean's arm off? Just a thought.......

    ReplyDelete
  127. Audrey14 May 2014 at 23:00

    Well, Carver turned back Sam to his teenage years since he is in charge so it doesn't surprise me anymore.

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  128. lala214 May 2014 at 23:34

    I love Rick Grimes!

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  129. lala214 May 2014 at 23:47

    Great post! I voted "Awful."

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  130. lala214 May 2014 at 23:51

    Hahaha . . . I wouldn't support them cutting off Dean's arm unless Cas could re-attach it w/o the MoC.

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  131. GodDamnAngel15 May 2014 at 00:34

    No. As I said, 8x19, 9x03, and 9x09 collectively retconned ALL reapers to be a subcategory of angel. They did not forget that Tessa was introduced as a reaper; they specifically mentioned that she was one and had her lament her inability to help souls cross over, which was her job. However, because of the prior retconning, Tessa *also* became an angel, in addition to her reaper status. They did not newly retcon her character specifically into an angel to squeeze her into the plot. They were adhering to previously established information that happened to clash with even older canon. Most casual viewers would've forgotten the older canon by now and, after the other retcon, would've been sadly more confused about the angel status not being addressed.


    I do agree that I wish more had come out of Tessa's return, aside from learning more about Metatron's games. Personally, I was hoping she would help them find the backdoor to Heaven the way Ajay helped Sam get into Purgatory, or, at the very least, give her two cents on the whole situation with Sam/Gadreel from the first half of the season. I also hoped (though I prepared myself for it) that she wouldn't die. The reaper/angel retcon that everyone is complaining about, however, is now over a year old. They've clearly decided they're sticking with it. So I don't see the point in dismissing an entire episode over something that is now old news.

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  132. lala215 May 2014 at 01:01

    I think Jared will return for next year. Cas will probably heal him or God could bring him back.

    ReplyDelete
  133. lala215 May 2014 at 01:02

    Cas could bring him back or God.

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  134. lala215 May 2014 at 01:03

    Haha! True!

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  135. lala215 May 2014 at 01:08

    I can't let it go b/c Reapers had a mythology for 7 years before Carver came along and changed things. He can't just do that and expect everyone to accept it. To me, it shows his lack of interest and his lack of respect for this show and its audience.
    JMO though.

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  136. BlueStar (aka CP)15 May 2014 at 03:22

    Just because they act like God it doesn't mean they are. Death even said Cas all powered up wasn't near God's abilities.

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  137. BlueStar (aka CP)15 May 2014 at 03:26

    They cannot be killed except by Death's scythe as said in episode 4x15 where Alastair tried to kill Tessa.

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  138. GodDamnAngel15 May 2014 at 10:15

    Alright, this is where I get to be a 'bad fan', by pointing out that reapers have not actually had anything resembling a consistent mythology on this series at any point in time. If you go back and watch "Faith" from season 1, where the reapers were introduced, then watch "In My Time of Dying", where Tessa is introduced, you'll see that Kripke changed quite a few things about the originally depicted mythos in order to make that story work. And they have continued to add, tweak, and change other aspects of the mythology in literally every episode depicting the reapers and Death since.


    Like when was the last time they showed clocks stopping around reapers? "In My Time of Dying" introduced the concept of reapers who could take on whatever form they wanted, but Tessa's true form looked nothing at all like the decrepit old dude we saw in "Faith". And we've seen little reference to non-human-looking reapers since. Originally, reapers were said to be unkillable, but three seasons later, woops, turns out they can be taken out after all. Originally, reapers could only be seen when they were coming for you, even though you weren't dead yet and perfectly conscious. But they seemed to be treated as otherwise corporeal, just invisible. Then it turned out they only existed on the astral plane, so you had to be either comatose or in a deep trance and astrally projecting into the spirit world to see them (not dead or dying necessarily), which they did stick with for awhile, but then in Appointment in Samarra, Dean suddenly had to flatline himself to talk to Tessa? And to talk to Death, despite the fact that Death has always been depicted as corporeal and Dean has talked to him before and since then while perfectly alive and conscious. The summoning ritual for Death, introduced in season 7, made that seem even more pointless. And now they are being referred to as a subcategory of angels and are being depicted consistently with the angel lore, rather than the mishmash of prior reaper mythology. And I do fully understand the issues that that poses. At the very least, it can be said to be one retcon too far, as the more they change things, the harder it becomes to reconcile it all as one whole.


    What I am opposed to is people holding Andrew Dabb accountable for a retcon that was established by other writers before him and outright dismissing his episode because of it, as well as the idea that Carver and only Carver is guilty of rewriting aspects of the show's mythology--and thus "doesn't care about the show and audience"--when both Kripke and Gamble have personally and purposefully rewritten it several times over whenever they wished.


    The truth of the matter is that Supernatural has never been good with it's own continuity. They've always flown by the seat of their pants, and they've always changed shit on a whim with little regard for what came before. People only get upset about it when they want to be upset about it, usually because they're really upset about other things and use the retcons as a legitimate way to fuel their anger so they can feel extra justified in it.

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  139. lala215 May 2014 at 10:40

    Yes, I forgot about that. In any event, I still think it's crazy that she was written as an angel instead of what she is: a reaper. And I don't like this whole "after 7 seasons, reapers are suddenly angels" retcons! Leave them as they were!

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  140. lala215 May 2014 at 11:21

    I agree that their form changed and a way was developed to kill them in a later season, but I think Kripke stuck to the basics and didn't veer far from that. IIRC, Dean flatlined himself in that episode b/c he wanted to meet up w/Tessa to get her to take him to Death, which would be keeping w/the mythology. As far as stopping time, who knows b/c we have only seen Tessa interacting w/the characters while in the veil or whatever. We wouldn't know if the clock stopped. Plus, IIRC, the clock has to stop when the Reaper actually takes the soul.
    I'll be honest and admit that the whole rogue reaper thing didn't bother me much in TD. I recognized it was wrong, but I wasn't as outraged then. I'm not sure why. I didn't like TD as an episode.
    But changing Tessa's species and that reaper angel Cas slept w/earlier this year really bothered me. Reapers are not angels! Those are two different creatures. If this guy wanted to write angels into the episode, then do that; leave reapers out of it. Reapers go about collecting souls for Death. They don't possess people. They exist on a different realm. Kripke was true to all of that for many years. Sera was true to it. Carver and his crap team of writers comes along and changes everything again.
    I respectfully disagree w/you about this regime's lack of respect for the audience and the show. Carver couldn't care less about this show as evidenced by the past two disjointed, garbled messes of seasons. And his writers just write whatever the heck they want with no regard to canon or even the previous week's episode! Fans tweeted the guy about the reaper/angel confusion in that Cas episode, and he was very defensive b/c he knew he made a mistake. He couldn't just own up to it.
    I don't think you are a bad fan, but I also think people have legitimate reason to complain about this. I understand you don't agree or think Kripke already changed the rules so what does it matter, but many feel these changes are extraordinary retcons to the show's established canon. Imagine them retconning the vampires, djinn, or ghouls for no reason. At least in Sera's season, it was acknowledged and recognized that the monsters were behaving strangely. And maybe that's why the idea of rouge reapers didn't bother me as much changing reapers into angels.
    I'm sorry but reapers are not angels! They just aren't, and it is ridiculous to write them as such. I understand it didn't bother you, but it bothered me in the Cas episode from this year, and it bothers me now. I see it as a complete lack of respect for the show. And the Tessa/reaper screw up wasn't the only reason I blew off this episode. I thought it was a pretty awful episode for a variety of reasons.

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  141. A Bad Person16 May 2014 at 14:37

    I really liked the angels in this one, soem of them using their gifts to heal, not hurt, other sfinding themselves actually enjoying life on earth, finding soemthing of value in teh fall in a way Metatron didn't expect and is incapable of understanding, despite the fact that he too, in his long time on earth has found something of value there that he holds above all other things - stories and the way humans tell them. His incapability to see other angels as his equals, being worthy of the same kind of respect he gives himself and longs others to give him will be his undoing. It's already turned Gadreel against him.

    I'm just glad the angels are fed up of being pawns, that they've taken to valung themselves and their own opinions. True, they're angels and they feel this need to follow others. But I liked that they asserted themselves and weren't cool with Cas being willing to let Tessa's death slide, (kinda understandable sinec they saw it as a murder but whatever). Maybe it was shitty of them to ask for Dean to be punished; but he wasn't exactly giving the a good impression and there was no reason why they should be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on his behaviour.

    We know better (or perhaps not; I guess what happens in the finale will be the 'make or break of it') but wither way, I just wish we had seen more of this behaviour earlier on.

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