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Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – ‘Meta Fiction’ Review

17 Apr 2014

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This was one that needed a rewatch. We had characters being manipulated by others and everything filtered by Metatron. My first watch left me with mixed impressions. I didn’t like some of what I was seeing. I was irked by the anticlimactic capture of Gadreel, the character writing and lack of much of a role for Sam, lack of Winchester focus in general, and the heavy presence of possibly the most annoying villain Supernatural has ever had. On the other hand, some parts were good – there was the return of Gabriel (sort of), quality in the directing and musical choices, a good Cas/angels story, slow progression of the effects of the Mark of Cain, and a cleverness in weaving in the meta elements into the story.

But the overlying impression after the first watch was that I was not really sure what I had seen. There were obviously layers, and it wasn’t until a second watch that I began to see what I think the point of the episode is – and that is Metatron was rewriting the season-two episode Tall Tales. Like Gabriel/The Trickster had done in that episode, he was preying on the insecurities of our three main characters to weaken them, and maybe subtly trying to turn them against each other.

Tall Tales – Part II

I understood from a first watch that Metatron was trying to manipulate Cas. That much was obvious and overtly stated. Metatron’s end-game is still uncertain. He used an illusion of Gabriel, or maybe the real Gabriel who was being forced to play a role, to try to convince Cas to accept the role of leader of the rebel, disenfranchised angels. Cas throughout this season has resisted this role – humbled and scared by the turn he took when he had before attempted leadership and embarked on a power trip that resulted in Cas calling himself God and getting thousands upon thousands of angels killed. The twist, as Metatron told Cas, was that Metatron actually did want Cas to lead the angels against him so that he could kill those angels, and Cas would be the villian in the story.

I’m guessing there’s another twist coming and that Metatron’s end game regarding Cas hasn’t really been revealed yet. Possibly it's to separate Cas from the Winchesters.  Metatron talks about knowing the ending to this story. That sounds a lot like what the angels were spouting in season 5 about destiny and the Apocalypse. Sam and Dean, with the help of Bobby and Cas, defeated the concept of destiny with free will and won that battle. Metatron should know this. Is Metatron's disregard for the Winchesters' free will victory another example of an arrogant angel underestimating the Winchesters and Cas, or does Metatron have another game plan that we haven’t seen yet?  When he talks about rewriting the story, is this really what he's referencing?  At the end of the episode, Cas opts to gather the angels to him despite Metatron’s speech.  I don't believe for an instant that Cas is selling out the angels to Metatron, so I'm leaning toward the theory that he has a different plan.

But getting back to the Tall Tales analogy, there was also obvious manipulation on the Dean part of the story. While the tool here is Gadreel, not Metatron, you have to remember that this is all Metatron's story.  Dean is told by Gadreel that Sam wouldn’t trade his life for his, and that Sam has always thought of Dean as being a scared little boy, afraid to be alone because his daddy didn't love him enough. I’ve read debate in the fandom whether Sam believes this, but the key here is this isn't about what Sam believes, Gadreel is saying it because Dean believes this. Deep inside, Dean believes he is a monster unworthy of love, and Gadreel is twisting Sam's knowledge to tap into Dean's biggest fears and incite him to kill him. What does Sam think? Personally, I think there are probably occasional less-than-charitable thoughts toward his brother, as there tends to be with most close relationships. There’s a part of Sam that resents Dean’s dependence on him and thinks its based on Dean's fear of being alone, as there’s a part of Dean that thinks Sam is selfish for not wanting to give up his dreams of independence for family.  This has been there since the start of the series.  But relationships aren’t that simple. Those thoughts, which sometimes rise to the surface during heated moments or times of emotional lows, are on most days balanced with more appreciative thoughts, and people's feelings toward each other are more complex than there being only one opinion.

What I completely missed during the first watch was that Gadreel was also manipulating Sam. Gadreel tells Sam, "your insides reek of shame and weakness."  [Post edited] Later, Sam comes up with a plan to trap Metatron, but fails and loses Gadreel.  Like with Dean, the show isn't saying that Sam is weak.  It's saying that Sam believes he is weak.

Writing & Meta

Writer Robbie Thompson, through comments made by Metatron and Gabriel, breaks the fourth wall by talking directly to viewers and acknowledging issues like rewrites of stories, subtext, and continuity errors. What was probably the most controversial reference from this episode though was Metatron’s act of tossing one of Carver Edlund’s Supernatural books, Tall Tales, into the fire. This comes amongst many complaints over the past couple of sesaons that the writing staff has been tossing aside canon without respect to the past story.

While there's obviously a number of ways to interpret this, personally I’m not reading anything aggressive or confrontational in the meta messages. For starters, they’re delivered through Metatron, a character with a God complex that I have a hard time believing that Thompson would choose to represent himself if he was sending a message about canon directly to the fans. What’s bears mention is that Charlie, Thompson’s apparent favorite character, collected the novels and read them cover to cover.  There are reasons for tossing in the novel into the fire that fit with the story.  Metatron has cast himself as the Trickster in Tall Tales and is working to manipulate reality and his enemies.  He's getting rid of the previous version as he seeks to obtain a different ending.

The discussion itself about the roles of writer and readers/viewers, and the nature of stories, make an interesting discussion.  Answering Gadreel's question about whether he had planned for Gadreel to be captured, Metatron says this:

"That was a surprise. But hey, what writer doesn’t love a good twist? My job is to set up interesting characters and see where they lead me.  The byproduct of having well drawn characters is they may surprise you.  But I know something they  don’t know.  The ending.  How I get there doesn’t get there.  As long as everybody plays their part."


This discussion is particularly fitting with this show and fandom, given the volume of Supernatural fanfic and one-on-one communication between both writers and cast with the fandom through Twitter and Supernatural conventions.  And Supernatural has a tradition of venturing off into the territory of meta every now and then.  Just look at the source material material for Metatron's rewrites - the Carver Edlund books, with the author having a pen name derived from two real writer names, and serving as possibly "God" in the story.

Lost Message?

Was the subtlety of this episode the right approach at this time?  By reading over many comments in the fandom, I'm taking away that there was a lot that was a lot of confusion (quoting Cas here) and misinterpretations of the message - a dangerous effect when the writer starts talking directly to the fandom through the story.  While I think the episode was very well crafted and rich with subtext and layers of meaning, there was something lost in the translation. This show seems to be struggling with finding the right mix between the anvil-heavy episodes, like Purge, and Meta Fiction.

I think this ties back to the lack of a proper foundation being built throughout the season so that the majority of fans understand a subtle episode like this when it comes along.  Among issues:

- Metatron’s storyline being put on the backburner for so long, that when he reappeared it almost felt like an unpleasant surprise that he was still on the show

- Shifts in story focus that are too jarring. The Abaddon storyline was put on hold for too long while the angel wars took precedence. Abaddon was then reintroduced, taking some time to earn our interest again, and then right when we’re starting to feel some momentum, we’re back to the angels. Add in too many monster of the week episodes breaking the flow, and you have a fandom that can’t keep track of what the story is, let alone come to be super excited about any of the threads.

- Not enough focus on Gadreel. Gadreel was the big villain of the first part of the season and the one that had the most direct and personal connection to the Winchesters. After Gadreel fled, that story was dropped for a stretch of episodes in favor of the Mark of Cain and the hunt for Abaddon, who it’s been implied is a big danger, but who has never had much of a direct connection to the Winchesters.

- Continuing problems with the writing for Sam. I keep forgetting that Sam has such low self-esteem issues because I never believed it to begin with, and the show’s never made much of an attempt to sell it to me. This portrayal just doesn’t match the Sam from the earlier seasons. And I don’t think I’m alone. There have been a multitude of interpretations to Sam’s recent reactions toward Dean, but I’m reading very few that take into consideration the message that Jeremy Carver seems to be trying to tell with Sam, and that is that Sam is driven by a fear of disappointing Dean. We need to spend more time in Sam’s head, and this season (and last) failed to allocate proper time to making connections in Sam’s story. Questions left uncovered include where did this low self-esteem come from? Was it always there, or was it a result of letting Lucifer out of the cage? Why does Sam focus on disappointing Dean rather than other possible failures? Is there some event that triggered this association with failure and Dean? How does the most recent possession tie into Sam’s past experiences with demon blood and other possessions? 

Speculation

Meta Fiction raises several interesting questions. First, it reintroduces the theme of free will vs. destiny. Sam and Dean won the Apocalypse battle, but is that war not won yet?

Also, Metatron is more powerful than we’ve seen thus far, and this raises the question how long has Metatron’s influence been felt. Metatron may have been working to turn them all against each other for some time. Remember the shadowy figure watching Sam outside Amelia’s house, or the hints that something had been manipulating the characters’ perceptions of reality in season 8? Could this have been the work of Metatron?

Finally, is Gabriel alive?! Gabriel’s reappearance was presented with a slight alteration in the portrayal of the character. My initial impression while watching was that he was missing some of the energy and attitude of the character that we’ve seen in the past. Also, he was speaking in a long string of mixed metaphors.  The revelation that Gabriel wasn't really there explained this - either what we were saying was Metratron's creation or it was powered by a Gabriel under duress, and either Metatron or Chuck (whomever the dialogue came from) was a really bad writer. Gabriel’s eyebrow wag before he disappeared seemed to hint of the presence of the real Gabriel out there somewhere.  Leaves you to wonder what else is out there ...

49 comments:

  1. brilliant review Chris.

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  2. one point, when we see Sam returning to a motel room and looking at a phone with missed calls, it was Cas' room and Cas' phone - not Sam's. we are meant to realize (IMO) that even though Cas thought he had his phone and was leaving messages for S&D, he was being manipulated into those thoughts and was, in fact, being held captive by Metatron.

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  3. Thank you! Glad you enjoyed.

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  4. The review is great, but I do have one comment.

    "What I completely missed during the first watch was that Gadreel was also manipulating Sam. Gadreel tells Sam, "your insides reek of shame and weakness." We see Sam go back to the hotel and realize he's missed six of Dean's calls. This reinforces Sam's idea that he always fails Dean. Later, Sam comes up with a plan to trap Metatron, but once again fails and loses Gadreel."



    Umm...maybe I'm getting the scenes wrong and you reffered to a different one. But isn't this the moment after Dean sends Sam to look for Cas? Sam goes to the motel at which Cas is staying and the missed calls from Dean are on Cas's phone not on his own. He looks upset cause he realizes something must've happened to Cas. Correct me, if this is not the scene to which you were reffering, I only watched the episode once, so I don't know every scene by heart.


    Other than that, I agree with everything you said. Plus I am one of those who still likes the angel storyline (maybe because I love Cas) and this time the story seemed to start moving. Slowly, I will say this, I feel the stories are moving way to slow considering how few episodes we have left.

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  5. Good review, thanks.
    I liked the ep, boring yes, but it had progression. I really liked Cas here, also appreciated the apparent concerns from Sam. I heard there was a line for him to say "I'm worried about him (Dean)" but was cut! Such a shame when they what him to act like a jerk, they make him so vocal and when he's about to act kind and lovely, they cut his POV!
    Unlike you, I didn't like the director's work, poor pace, angels, the whole Gabriel parts was too fake and boring (why had Speight changed his voice? He was totally different. It was the first thing that hinted me it was all fake, and I know it was not intended). The ending montage was good but hearing ooooh and aaaaah on the rocky Sam&Dean in the impala was just so wrong!

    Re. what Gadreel told to provoke the brothers, I agree he mixed their fears with what he's seen of Sam's thoughts. But I think nobody from cast & crew knew what to exactly deduce from what happened between the brothers. Some believed it was partially true, some believed Sam meant to end the toxic codependency and rebuild a better one, Jared himself believed Sam didn't mean any of that and just said them to hurt Dean. What else the poor guy was supposed to think when he sees his role of a loving brother says such things. What was said really didn't make any sense. So I think nobody really knew what was going on in Sam's head until they read Carver's script for the final, if this brotherly dispute is going to end this season. And even there I'm afraid we're going to get another cryptic little speech like in Sacrifice, that honestly didn't answer any of our questions.

    BTW, it was Cas' phone w/ missed calls, but I noticed Sam was unconscionably shielding Dean when Matatron singed for his car to come. He felt responsible for his plan and was trying to protect Dean, so cute :)

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  6. When Sam pulls up to the motel he's holding a phone, think it is for the map. Then the calls are on another phone, so I take it is Cas' phone the calls are on as it would be unlikely he'd not have noticed Dean calling his phone if he is using it to get to where Cas is.

    But it still could tie into Sam's feelings. Dean sent him to find Cas but Dean is calling Cas. Sensible if Dean is worried about Cas as it would take time for Sam to get there. But to Sam during their fractured relationship, he might be taking it that Dean doesn't fully trust him to find Cas or if Cas is meant to keep him away from Gadreel while Dean works the angel over. Either way, Dean doesn't trust him with either angel.

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  7. Thanks for the response. I noticed Gabriel was just a little off too, so that I suspected it wasn't Gabriel about mid-scene with Cas. I took those subtle differences as intentional on the part of the way the scene was written, filmed and acted.


    I'm not pretending to know exactly what Sam has been thinking this season. I speculated a little in the article, but I'm not saying I know for certain. That gets into my criticism of us not getting enough of a foundation to be able to follow when the writing approach is less direct. My comment here, though, about the Dean/Gadreel interaction, was that these words (when Sam first said it and when Gadreel expanded on it) were about what's going on in Dean's head, and not about what's going on in Sam's head. This is just like how Dean blaming Sam for being soulless last season was about how Sam would hear it, not about what Dean really felt. The words hit home because this is something Dean believes deep down to be true - that he did what he did to Sam because he was afraid to be alone.

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  8. I agree, it's a big flaw of the show when after 9 years, we still can't say we know one of the main roles of the show!


    Actually Gadreel couldn't for sure know about the deepest fears of Dean, he was in Sam's head not Dean's. I really don't think Dean had any insecurities about his relationship with Sam, w/ John yes but not Sam. It's why he was so shocked in Purge. Besides, as Jensen said, Dean really isn't the type to think about the why and how to protect his family. When he damned his soul to hell, he didn't think about loneliness. He could kill himself right then, but he wanted to save Sam for Sam.



    Also I believe there's a huge logical and psychological flaw in "saving a loved one to not be left alone" among family and friends. You save your family b/c it's the right thing, that's all. This crazy line should've never got to be accepted in the script.

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  9. He was in Deans head briefly in the first eps that is where he got the line 'there is no me without you'. So he could know about his insecurities. But since was a short time. I still like the line that he used just recently that Sam would not save him and Dean said thats a rerun Sam already told me that. so its not like Dean has not been hearing this stuff from demons and now angels are using his own insecurities against him. Does that leave anyone who doesn't know what dean fears??? Nice review enjoyed it and still curious how people think Dean is the key to the stairway to heaven???

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  10. It is a big flaw in the show and it all stems from not knowing Sam. I think what Gadreel said was meant to tie into what Carver is trying to sell as the biggest fear of Sam and Dean.


    Sam is supposed to be depressed, has low self esteem and always fails. To that Sam why would Dean always try to save him if it wasn't just to make sure he wasn't alone or just keeping him around to soothe Dean's ego. It would also explain why Dean keeps trying to replace him with vampires or angels.


    I think what I'm trying to say is that Gadreel is telling Dean that Sam doesn't think he is saving Sam for Sam but always for himself. Which does tie into what Sam said in the purge when he called Dean selfish.

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  11. I'm stepping into dangerous territory by trying to apply logic to the world of Supernatural, but taking a step beyond Gadreel, this whole story was set up by Metatron, and Metatron is appearing to have God-like powers. Gadreel was just a character in Metatron's story. If I'm correct in assuming that this was meant to parallel what Gabriel did in Tall Tales, then you could make the argument that Gabriel also knew things about Sam and Dean that logically he shouldn't have know, when he plotted to get them fighting with each other.


    I don't want to get into the argument about why Dean was wrong again. I'll just say this and then I won't say anything further. It comes down to the motives. If you're doing it because you believe the person would want to be saved, then there's nothing wrong with it (assuming you don't hurt others in the process). If you're taking unnatural measures to keep them with you, that you believe the person wouldn't want, because you don't want to be left alone, then it's about you, not about them.

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  12. Thanks, I guess I missed that detail and edited it out of the review.

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  13. I like your analysis, it actually makes sense in the current setup.

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  14. Awesome review. I totally agree with everything you said. My biggest problem was the lack of Sam and Dean in this episode. This show is about them, right?

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  15. As a fan for 9 years (and I must admit I am stretching that for the last 2 seasons) I am very disappointed with Season 9. It is confusing and nothing makes sense in terms of the characters. I can't imagine anyone tuning in for the first time lasting more than 45 seconds with all of the different stories at play here. Maybe that was why the ratings for this one tanked so bad .... hmmm.
    I am not appreciating the angel storyline this year. I am assuming it is the writers attempt to give the Cas character some purpose. I think that if this, is the best they can do it is time to let that character move along. This character is as sharp as ice cream and I don't get why he hasn't been ganked as of yet.
    Fans have been subjected to brutal unexplained brother angst all season. I suspect that most people watch for the incredible relationship and shared history these boys have. This season has been depressing and like the first 1/2 of Season 8 held nothing for me. Sam's character has been nothing but wallpaper this year. He is unrecognizable. I have always loved the Dean character but I have come to resent him due to the writing. This leaves me with no more reason to watch.
    Not good TV anymore!

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  16. Maybe that was why the ratings for this one tanked so bad .... hmmm.

    That could be a reason, but it looks like all the CW shows so far this week haven't done well in the ratings.

    It is confusing and nothing makes sense in terms of the characters.



    For me the stories make a lot of sense for Dean and for Cas - much more than a number of their stories over the years (especially Cas). I just wish the show bothered to give Sam a POV and a characterization. It's disappointing.

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  17. I liked your review though I will say that I would rather they greatly simplified the angel story line and added more monster of the week episodes. I liked the old school episodes of the brothers fighting monsters (not each other). I'm not sure what is going on with Sam but I am disappointed in the writers for letting his character hang in the wind for two seasons. I watch solely for the brothers so this episode did not do much for me. I think they were barely in it and I found myself getting too irritated by that, that every time they cut to the angel stuff I couldn't even follow it.

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  18. If they cannot feel a responsibilty to give him a pov after what was done to him then they never will. Sam is not a character you explore , he is just one that things are done to . Then we explore Dean and his feelings over it.

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  19. I agree with that, but I also want more. I mean, people complained for years about Dean not having a myth arc. Now he has one. I feel like if I complain enough about Sam not having a POV and not getting to react to things, then maybe it will unlock some cosmic door. I don't know.


    Mother's Little Helper had a very clear Sam POV, so clearly they can do it if they want to try.

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  20. I don't resent Dean, but I agree w/everything else you wrote. The writing for Sam leaves much to be desired. His POV is either ignored or he's written to be somewhat hateful.

    This show was built on the brotherly bond and the fact that the brothers would do anything for each other, so I continue to be amazed by Carver writing Sam as not looking for Dean or implying that he wouldn't save Dean and then being confused when the audience doesn't like it! Writing Sam this way is doing him NO favors. Under Carver, the relationship is too one-sided. It didn't feel one-sided under Kripke.

    Carver has ruined this show, IMO.

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  21. Yup. He's basically a plot point. Even his horrible (IMO) speeches to Dean this year were to drive Dean to a depressed state. The writers didn't care that Sam was coming off like a jerk.

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  22. I feel awful for Jared b/c he's the one left to explain Carver's crappy, OOC writing. He was in the same spot last year w/that "Sam doesn't look for Dean" nonsense. He has to try to make sense out of material that probably doesn't make all that much sense to him given his understanding of the character he's played for 9 years!

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  23. Good review. I think that the fact we need flip charts or re-watch to follow this episode or understand the season is a huge problem.
    This season has had way too many "arcs" "mythology" "stories" (I don't know what to call them) to keep them all straight. I don't think the answer is less monster of the week episodes but less "arcs" period. I have not been interested in the majority of this season due in part to the bizarre writing of Sam but also the angel story arc. I am meaning the Cas/Metaron/Bart one. The writers have failed to make me care about the characters or the fallen angels.
    Give me monster of the week episodes any day of the week because they used to centre on the Winchester brothers. For me, the biggest failing of this particular episode was our heros, Sam and Dean were barely in it.

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  24. You and I just see the Kripke years and Carver years differently. Under Kripke, I never once thought the boys had to be together b/c they had no one else. They chose to be together. Heck, they liked being together.

    For me, it is the exact opposite under Carver. Ever since S8, I've wondered why Sam is there. He doesn't seem to have much interest in hunting and doesn't really want to hang around w/Dean. Under Carver, I'm constantly asking myself why these two are together. I rarely did that under Kripke. Their relationship was never toxic to me. I saw no reason to change anything about they way they interact, etc.

    It seems you agree w/Carver that their relationship was/is toxic, so I'm not surprised that you're enjoying what he's done to them. We will just have to agree to disagree b/c I think he's effectively ruined the brotherhood.

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  25. I agree with your first part about there being too much going on, and that we should never "have to" rewatch an episode just to follow along. There should be layers - a most basic layer that can be followed by someone who's jumping in for the first time, and then more layers that add deeper level of context, symbolism, etc. I also review The Walking Dead, and I never have to rewatch to figure out what happened, and it's a more complex show. I always want to rewatch because there's so much detail that becomes apparent with each rewatch, but I don't have to.


    I also agree that there has been too much going on this year. I would have much preferred that they had picked one of the storylines - Abaddon/Crowley or falling angels, and focused more consistently on it, giving both Sam and Dean a direct role in the conflict.


    I love a lot of the monster of the week episodes from earlier seasons, but they just don't seem to have as much heart or creativity as they used to, and I find myself getting bored with them. With the show at the age it is, I think it needs more to ramp up suspense and tension to get us looking forward to the next episode. Anyway, that's my preference, but taste varies


    I'm also with you on finding myself not pulled into the Cas/Metatron/Bart storyline - probably mostly because it seems to have nothing to do with Sam and Dean. The show has felt too fractured lately.

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  26. Thanks for the comments. I enjoy a good monster of the week, but I also feel like a lot have become stale lately, so I'd prefer a more continuous thread with rising tension spread out over the season to keep me engaged. My ideal mytharc tease (and I say tease because it was dropped before it reached its potential) - post Apocalypse - was the Alpha/Mother story of season 6. There was something big and scary developing, which was the perfect fit for the Winchesters. Monsters were acting weird. They were organizing and doing things like forming sleeper cells in suburban households. The Alpha Vamp was terrifying, yet fightable. I thought Eve arrived too soon, because once she did she was too powerful and they had to kill her quickly. But that story spread out over a few seasons would have been awesome.


    I feel like mytharc in this fandom (not saying you, just in general) has become associated with stories in which Sam and Dean play a tertiary role, or stories that involve Sam and Dean fighting with each other. That's a shame, because the show would be so much better if the mytharcs were scaled down a little to human size, and there was a nice consistent build over the course of the season.

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  27. I agree with all of the problems you state. There's too much going on and everything is too disjointed. I'm really surprised there has been no attempt to bring Sam and Dean more into the angel storyline yet, but this is two years with parallel storylines that really aren't intersecting much. I'm trying to remember the last time Sam and Dean were in the same room with Metatron. Was it the episode when Sam was hallucinating due to the trials? And Naomi of last season only had a brief interaction with Dean.


    On the brother angst, I understand the sides although I'm not sure why it's resurfacing now, since the idea of letting go was satisfactorily addressed in season 5, but I wish Sam was given more opportunity for exploration of the emotional effects, and better dialogue to express what he's thinking. I feel like Sam's been slowly evolving into wallpaper since the later part of season 6 - maybe even earlier than that. There were suggestions of interesting storylines and opportunities for character development in the last few seasons, with the soullness, the Hellucinations, even Amelia, the trials, and the Gadreel possession, but the character exploration part was always quickly dropped. It's maddening because I don't understand the logic behind it. Where exactly are writers taught that it's a good practice to flatten, rather than round out, previously interesting characters?

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  28. " I feel like if I complain enough about Sam not having a POV and not getting to react to things, then maybe it will unlock some cosmic door. I don't know."


    LOL at this one, in part because for a while I felt obligated to gripe in comments after each time Sam was ignored myself. This was because the other camps were doing it, it was becoming apparent that the writers or someone was listening and responding to the complaints, and we were losing ground (things were becoming too imbalanced). Such is the life of a Supernatural fan. Finally I decided it just wasn't an effective use of my time. I really think the SPN fan community might become more civil if they really got the message that their special-interest griping and lobbying wasn't having an effect on the show.

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  29. Yeah, that's pretty much what my first draft said. ;)

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  30. Thanks for the comments. I used to feel there was genuine affection in their relationship, and I still do to a certain degree. But there's a difference between wanting someone around and selling your soul or tricking them into becoming possessed because you can't accept them dying. That's where it gets into the unhealthy, codependent patterns.


    I don't know if you've ever seen the show Necessary Roughness, but the based around a therapist who works with professional sports players with issues. There's one episode that dealt with codependence of a mother, who had raised her basketball player son on her own, and they had developed a codependent relationship that was causing the son to become paralyzed on the court and blow games because his mom was in a relationship he was worried about. It reminded me a lot of what's going on here. She couldn't let him move on and still attended every single game, yelling out coaching comments, and he couldn't break away either because he was always worrying about his mother because she had sacrificed so much for him.

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  31. Yes, angels and certain demons have always seemed to have more insight into the minds of Sam and Dean than what seems logical. It's just something we have to accept, I guess.

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  32. I couldn't agree more w/you. I honestly don't care about anything this season. The one thing I am interested in (the MOC story) is moving, in my opinion, at a glacial pace. For me, nothing is happening w/it. I'm sorry, but Dean looking at himself in the mirror, drinking at the bar, rubbing his arm, or even torturing Gadreel (which we didn't even get to see) is NOT a story. I'm still not even sure what Dean is supposed to be feeling. Depression? Bloodlust? Anger? What?

    And, like you, I couldn't possibly care less about anything angel-related. The angels can return to Heaven, stay on Earth, all die . . . . I don't care.

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  33. I've never seen Necessary Roughness, but am in the UK so will be honest American sports aren't my thing. Basketball I'll watch if it is on, but I don't find it exciting until the last five minutes as for baseball and american football, the starting and stopping turns me right off. Give me Rugby or football any day of the week.

    As for the brothers, I agree that there is a bit of genuine affection there just buried under a lot of baggage. I also agree that there is a difference between just wanting someone around and doing what Dean has done to keep Sam alive.

    But I also think TV has a simplistic view of codependency, with one side being down trodden and the other getting all the good side but I don't think it is that way really. Yes I can see where you are coming from with your example, though without seeing the show in question I can't say anything about the subtext in there. But I think that codependency has to be a two way street for it not to be a simple outright abusive relationship. With the selling his soul Sam has no say, but with the possession like it or not Sam did. He got something out of it. It isn't just that he is frightened of failing Dean, he has also become dependent on Dean being there to save the day for him, to take over when he is wavering. He couldn't cope with Amelia and Don when Dean wasn't 'alive', but when Dean was around his issues with Amelia were more because of Dean and hunting than him not wanting to face up to the situation of himself, Don and her.

    He wanted to die, but Dean turned up and gave him a sob story and he caved, he stopped the trials because Dean asked and suddenly it is all on Dean. He gives up his control to Dean but the Sam, we see now and last season, also reminds Dean that is his responsibility to take that burden when he is freaked out because Sam has low self esteem and feels a failure and wants his brother's approval. His actions when he has spoken to Dean about their relationship have been more anger then hoping as time goes on they go back to the pattern they have always had, not moving on to something a bit healthier where Dean knows his brother will be there for him and Sam can feel better able to not feel manipulated when he has the power not to be.

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  34. I had really hoped that Dean getting this story "arc" would allow the writers to expose Sam's thoughts/feelings about his brother and the situations they see themselves in. Much like they have done in the past when Sam had an arc. We usually saw how it affected Dean. I think this is what allowed the audience to bond with Dean so well. I'm not really taken with the MOC story either because the whole reason he was willing to accept this mark w/o further research was not sold to me by the writers. Despite a large amount of screen time I don't understand what's going on with him either other than he's showering more.

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  35. It seems you agree w/Carver that their relationship was/is toxic, so I'm not surprised that you're enjoying what he's done to them.


    I've repeatedly said I DON'T enjoy it. I've repeatedly said, even in that post, that Carver has mishandled the writing for Sam.


    Do I think the Sam and Dean relationship was always toxic? No. The first few seasons were not. They were about learning and growing. Even the third season, when Dean had made the deal, ended on Dean trying to help Sam move on. After that I think Kripke ruined it for melodrama that he had no ability to control, and it's never been the same since.

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  36. I think Dean has a history of jumping in first, especially when he feels he has nothing left in life. He did the same when he made the deal to save Sam. He didn't care about the consequences.


    I've seen a big difference in Dean since the mark - that shot of him slumped against the wall is one of those moments that for me did a lot more than the usual expository dialogue on this show.


    I'd like to see more of how Sam feels about it too. There have been hints, but not much else. I guess because Sam has no one to talk to.

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  37. I agree with a lot of your review. I had mixed feelings about the episode - I don't mind that it's not about Sam and Dean (although I wanted to see more of Sam with Gadreel), and I thought Robbie Thompson handled Cas much better than he usually does, but I also came away feeling that nothing had happened (other than Cas becoming more willing to lead), and I feel that Metatron is best used in small doses. I wish we'd gotten more into Gadreel's head, so that I wouldn't have to fanwank what he feels. On the positive side, I thought they did a good job with Gabriel's return, as that's something which has been so built up by fans for such a long time that anything was bound to disappoint.

    I'm glad you mentioned that you don't think Metatron burning the book was some grand statement by SPN against the fans. I just don't see that. I don't really believe that the show would use Metatron, who is a disgusting waste of flesh, as some attack on fans. I just can't quite get myself into that mindset where I am that offended. If I was going to be offended I would have been most offended by Becky and the implication that the fans are desperate losers who will do anything to get close to their favorites, including drugging them.

    Continuing problems with the writing for Sam. I keep forgetting that Sam has such low self-esteem issues because I never believed it to begin with, and the show’s never made much of an attempt to sell it to me. This portrayal just doesn’t match the Sam from the earlier seasons. And I don’t think I’m alone. There have been a multitude of interpretations to Sam’s recent reactions toward Dean, but I’m reading very few that take into consideration the message that Jeremy Carver seems to be trying to tell with Sam, and that is that Sam is driven by a fear of disappointing Dean. We need to spend more time in Sam’s head, and this season (and last) failed to allocate proper time to making connections in Sam’s story. Questions left uncovered include where did this low self-esteem come from? Was it always there, or was it a result of letting Lucifer out of the cage? Why does Sam focus on disappointing Dean rather than other possible failures? Is there some event that triggered this association with failure and Dean? How does the most recent possession tie into Sam’s past experiences with demon blood and other possessions?



    I think you can see Sam's lack of self-worth from season 2 on, at least, especially in episodes like Houses of the Holy. It really kicks up with the demon blood story in season 4. He felt that he was nothing, unable to save his brother, unable to help much of anyone.


    We got back to this in the season 8 finale, but since then it's barely been addressed.

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  38. Well, that's why I said seems. I guess we can both agree that Carver has gone down the wrong path w/r/t the show and the brothers' relationship.

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  39. Yes, it would have been nice to see Dean's story through Sam's eyes as they've done so often w/Sam's arcs but that clearly isn't happening. They are barely telling the story through Dean's eyes unless Dean staring at his reflection is supposed to be telling us something!

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  40. Thanks for response. On your point about Sam, I would argue that House of the Holy showed the opposite. To me having low self-esteem means believing that you're not worthy and that you'll always fail, so you don't even try. Sam believed he was worthy and had a high enough self-esteem to break away from his family and earn a place for himself in Stanford. The problem was that he was cursed and he kept failing anyway - but not due to low self-esteem, but because demons kept plotting against him. In House of Holy Sam was hoping he could be saved. Someone with low self-esteem would have believed they weren't worthy of being saved (like Dean).


    In season 4, Sam was frustrated that he couldn't save Dean, and for everything else bad that had happened to him and his family, and using his powers was his way of fighting back. I believe his self-esteem took a beating when he let Lucifer out, and we saw low self-esteem in season 5, but he was able to redeem himself from that mistake by putting Lucifer back into his cage and serving his time in Hell.

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  41. Yes, we agree on that. I hope it is fixed next season. Most of all I just want more of a Sam voice, as I feel like there is nothing but fighting and fatigue over the "does Sam love his brother" question.

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  42. There is definitely a strong lack of POV for Sam on this show. I first noticed it in S5 and it has only gotten worse since then. That's why Sam seems more like a plot point than an actual character!

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  43. I never had that illusion that POV would suddenly shift to Sam, because the idea of giving one character a story with big things happening to him, and the other has point of view, has always seemed a fandom myth that has grown over the years to explain away a big failing in the writing (which was a habit of forgetting to write Sam's POV), rather than being an intentional plan on the parts of the writers.

    No one writes like that. You don't have a major character going through huge, life-altering events, and then not spend some time exploring how those events are affecting him. That story of how it effects him could theoretically be told through that character's direct POV, or through the POV of another character, but it's always told. With Dean's POV, we've been getting how the things that have happened to Dean affect Dean, not how they affect Sam. Ideally, appropriate time would allocated for POV for both characters if the goal is for the story is going to resonate emotionally with the viewers.

    I might even buy that this whole story is only a first-person story of Dean if we hadn't gotten a bit of Sam's POV in the earlier seasons, and if we weren't getting Cas's story now told through Cas's POV, but that's not the case either.



    On Dean's MoC, I think they've been slowly building the effects. We saw Dean enjoying torturing again this week, which ties back to season 4. It would have of course been a lot more effective if we hadn't been seeing Dean torture on occasion without consequence throughout the past dwq years, but that's a less on why continuity is important.

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  44. I'm a light Twitter user. I have no idea what's "normal," but I would expect the staff of any show to be positive publicly. What they say privately is a different matter, but of course we don't have access to that.

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  45. I think the show has brought up codependency a few times but hasn't done a good job of showing how it is affecting the characters, other than making broad associations like how bringing people back from the dead is disrupting the natural order.


    For example, Sam's comment about how everything bad that has happened to them was because they were brothers seemed to come out of nowhere for a lot of fans. There's the supernatural angle to that comment - how demons and other creatures seem to be able to use their codependency against them - but there's also a personal negative effect (like that in my Necessary Roughness example) that hasn't been explored nearly enough.


    If the writers are going to keep bringing up the codependency as an ssue, they should really look at how its affecting not just Dean but Sam as well. There's another solution as well, which is just let Sam and Dean gradually evolve into a healthier relationship with more people in their lives, but they don't seem willing to let the codependency drop yet.

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  46. No they haven't done a real good job of moving it along but I think compared to some it has done a good job of showing the pit falls of it. Neither party are moving forward and neither one is completely blameless in the codependency. You see a lot of shows were codependency is simply one person under the others thumb.


    As for having them move it forward, I agree they have to show the effects on Sam too or at least having Sam realise he suffers from it as badly as Dean but how it manifests itself is different. I think that is going to be the main issue in the next episode seeing how from the promo, sneak peak and promo photos we have Sam in a chair at the whim of vampires after going on a case with a girl who provides meals for them because they are her family. If thinman was Sam and Dean seeing lies destroy a relationship of others, the next one maybe Sam seeing how codependency affects other parties.

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  47. But did we actually see Dean enjoying the torture? The scene cut away, and we only saw the aftermath of the torture. Another problem - IMO - w/the storytelling.

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  48. Why Would I Tell?20 April 2014 at 04:31

    I think we did see that Dean was enjoying torturing Gadreel, it's not the first time we've seen him draw pleasure from torturing others either, whether for information or not.

    S4: Dean was said to clearly enjoy torturing in Season 4 and he learned from the best, Alastair. It was used as both a release of his own anger, pain, frustration, fears and self-loathing and a source of pleasure in the power and control he had over others.

    S5: Dean of End!Verse was a cold, calculating, relatively emotionlesss killing machine with a single minded focus and he didn't care who got hurt or thrown aside or used as bait, as long as he accomplished his goal.

    S6: Vampire Dean enjoyed taking out those vamps and the dark power that being a vampire gave him, while it lasted.

    S8: Dean enjoyed Purgatory too because of the purity of simply killing without needing his conscious or debating morals and ethics of "good" or "bad" creatures, it was a kill or be killed world and Dean relished in it. Some of that remained and lingered in the real world, when Dean was interrogating suspects and we got flashbacks at the same time.

    S9: The MOC Dean I believe will be a culmination of all the other Dark!Dean's that we have had before. The pleasure from torture, his own self-hatred for enjoying the feelings that the torturing and MOC gives him, his anger at Sam's seeming lack of love and family bond, the lessening of Dean's humanity, and the dangerous loss of Dean's self-control.

    Dean was on the floor, a little breathless and unfocused leads me to believe that he was overwhelmed with an almost "orgasmic pleasure" from the torturing. Sam snapped him back to reality, out of the blissful haze that he was sitting in. It was so much, so intense that he literally could not stay on his feet.

    The MOC took him over and while he has enough self-control to stop just short of killing Gadreel, his control over himself is slowly but surely slipping through his fingers and he can't stop it. For Dean Winchester, who is so centered around being in control of situations, this must be truly a frightening conclusion.

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  49. Yeah . . . I didn't see all that, esp. the orgasmic pleasure. Maybe if we had actually been shown scenes of Dean torturing Gadreel, I would have gotten that impression but we didn't.

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