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POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - Alex Annie Alexis Ann?

23 Apr 2014

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135 comments:

  1. klutzy_girl23 April 2014 at 02:59

    I'm still having SHIELD issues but I really did like the episode. Aw at Jody bonding with the girl and surviving. I'm assume she's going to adopt her or something.

    And aww at Dean helping hurt!Sam at the end. That's always appreciated, even when he's having Mark of Cain issues.

    Great episode!

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  2. Judy Smith23 April 2014 at 03:02

    Loved the episode. Good to see some of the monsters out there still. Dean enjoying the kill reminded me of when the killed the vamp back in season 2, when the first met Gordon and the vampires that Sam decided to help.

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  3. Morrigan_257523 April 2014 at 03:04

    Yay! Jody survived the episode, I was really worried they were going to kill her off.

    I liked Dark Dean, the mark is really doing a number on him, he's become quite ruthless. I can't wait to see how it plays out, hopefully Sam and Cas can pull Dean off the ledge.

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  4. Freda23 April 2014 at 03:04

    It was pretty Meh to me. I am tired of seeing Sam held hostage. This is old, overdone and kinda insulting to him at this point. I liked seeing Jody another type of resolution to her horrible trauma. With so few episodes left, I wish this episode would have focus on the several myth arcs than an hunting episode.

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  5. Lise23 April 2014 at 03:09

    I'm really enjoying more and more the Dean Dark .... My wish is that he goes to the dark side and only 10 on the season is that Sam and Cas bring him back. Dean is very cool. And yes I loved this episode too and loved the promo 20 also. :)

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  6. lala223 April 2014 at 03:14

    I can't remember the last episode I enjoyed. I'm hoping a new season will give me a fresh perspective.


    I didn't care about Alex, so the episode didn't work for me. I just couldn't connect with her or her story. I also thought it was extremely predictable for Alex to kill her mother. Who didn't see that coming?


    I like Jody so I'm glad she didn't die.

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  7. Theresa Lewis23 April 2014 at 03:18

    I didn't love this ep. It was good but I am definitely loving seeing more Dark (or darker) Dean as well. Although honestly what he did in this ep wasn't more than he did at the beginning of Season 2 with the vamps there.
    I also have the same wish for the Mark of Cain to follow over to Season 10. With so few eps left, it would be a sad cheat to resolve the mark this season. Even sadder if they completely remove it in the finale. I would love them to actually do something with this mytharc and not just gloss over it to get the brothers back together just to end the season together. At this point, it should take more than a five minute speech in the finale to resolve things on both sides, especially since there still hasn't been any real movement on either side of the argument.
    I am also tired of seeing Sam being held hostage but, at least this time, they all were captured and held hostage for some of the time.
    I am glad that Jody got some resolution for her trauma and hope that it doesn't backfire on either of them.

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  8. lala223 April 2014 at 03:22

    Theresa, I didn't find anything too dark about Dean's actions either. As you said, Dean behaved the same way in S2. The dark!Dean or MOC story is the most interesting story this season.

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  9. Peter J423 April 2014 at 03:25

    They were both held hostage in this one so it didn't bother me that much. The only difference is they were dumb enough to leave Dean untied.

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  10. Peter J423 April 2014 at 03:26

    I wasn't sure if Alex would be the one or not. Frankly I was kind of expecting Dean and Sam to kill both of them.


    I thought he told Dean pretty quickly - it seemed like the conversation happened not long after they gave Alex the cure.

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  11. Peter J423 April 2014 at 03:26

    Yes, but when Dean behaved that way, Sam was scared then too.

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  12. lala223 April 2014 at 03:30

    True. I just want to see more, you know? Maybe they can be less subtle with it.

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  13. Peter J423 April 2014 at 03:31

    I agree. I have not really seen enough of Dean doing that season (the slow progression into bloodlust). I think the "look at me, bitch" part did push this forward more. Dean also had blood on his face in almost the exact places that "demon Dean" had it in Dean's nightmare during season 3. I doubt that was intentional, but it freaked me out.

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  14. lala223 April 2014 at 03:34

    It seemed dragged out to me like he was stumbling over his words or something.

    After Sam and Dean were knocked out, I knew Alex would save Jody because they wouldn't have Jody kill them both though I think they should have.

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  15. Peter J423 April 2014 at 03:37

    I think it's because that's a tough subject to tackle, but I was happy he at least tried.


    By the time of the scene I knew Dean and Sam wouldn't get there. Up to that point I thought they'd both die though.

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  16. CyanaT23 April 2014 at 03:39

    Alex didn't kill her "mother, she whammied her with Dead Man's Blood which allowed Jody to kill 'mom'. I agree with you about too much tied up Sam and didn't like Dean's "You would have done it, too" dig (saved Dean's life) - Sam has been nothing but caring and concerned toward Dean.

    I also liked that " I'm bleeding to death here" Sam thought about saving Jody more than himself. I think show has damaged Sam's rep far too much to even consider having him 'harshing Dean' even more - like saying to Dean that he felt like Dean enjoyed killing the Vamp too much for many fans to take anything Sam says seriously. And in truth, the show may be thinking it's highlighting DarkDean but to me Dean was as expressionless when he killed the vamp in Bloodlust.

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  17. Lise23 April 2014 at 03:44

    Yeah! I also hope not completely removed the mark and the effects in season 10. And yes I agree with you again, all were caught by vamps, but is interesting Sam protecting and a little bit worried about Dean .... And the relationship Jodi and the new teen vamp.... Interesting! And Thank God she did not die, only MEN hunters in Supernatural is a little too much for me .... and it's a girl who speaks.

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  18. CyanaT23 April 2014 at 03:45

    Jody Mills (Kim Rhodes) continues to impress and I'm glad, too, that Jody got some resolution. The Winchesters and Jody killed "Mom" and her family so I don't Jody and Alex/Ann are in danger from that particular nest.

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  19. CyanaT23 April 2014 at 03:48

    I agree Lala, the earlier writing was way more subtle. This season I feel like we're being hit over the head with anvils, kind of like earlier seasons, but they're much blunter anvils.

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  20. kayell23 April 2014 at 03:50

    Terrible episode, too many illogical things not common in this show.

    1.) How is Annie any safer in a cabin in a woods from vamps that could scent her.

    2.) If the vamps wanted Annie, Sam and Dean would usually be smart enough to bait them to them then going on a blind goose chase while leaving her with Jodie putting her life in danger.

    3.) omg Annie is a lurer Jodie is in trouble, let's call her and wait here for her to phone us back instead of driving there

    4.) Annie has been kidnapped by the vamps, lets waste time and stand around and debate ethics instead of hitting the road and talking about it in the car.

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  21. Peter J423 April 2014 at 03:54

    I thought the writing in that season 2 episode was crazy heavy-handed. They had Dean killing a vampire with a saw as Sam looked on horrified. I do think in general the writing was much better in the first two seasons, but I didn't care for that arc.

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  22. Peter J423 April 2014 at 03:55

    Weren't the last two just very short scenes before they left to get down to business?

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  23. ScottA23 April 2014 at 03:56

    Other than the growing influence of the Mark of Cain, this episode left a lot to be desired.

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  24. CyanaT23 April 2014 at 03:57

    I thought Bloodlust was very well written but I'm a fan of Sera's writing and we're different that way.

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  25. Peter J423 April 2014 at 03:58

    I liked this episode more than I thought I would. Some wonderful material for Jody, addressing her past and present. Great to see her in a more dominant role, but still vulnerable and human.


    I liked Alex too - solid actress, and it was nice to see a female character who has made some mistakes actually get to survive. I'm glad that Jody will sort of be a mother to her.


    Loved the work from Ashley Crow as the mama vampire. I normally glaze over at vampires on this show (I liked Benny but dozed through all his vampire kin), but Crow sold so much humanity and vulnerability in her character. For once I believed that there was a vampire "family."


    The Dean and Sam stuff - well, they were on the backburner, but the way they handled the mark and bloodlust and Sam's reaction worked for me. I didn't think the scene where Sam confronted Dean was strong enough, but otherwise I thought they did a good job building up what's happening to Dean. Jensen was amazing in that "look at me..." scene. Feral.


    Overall I'd give this a B, or an A- for all the strong female characters who popped up on this show. It's a rare thing.

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  26. Peter J423 April 2014 at 04:00

    I didn't just mean that arc in the episode - I meant the whole "Dean's going bad because John's dead" arc in general in early season 2. I don't blame that on Sera. I'm sure she was told to rush Gordon being revealed as evil, and rush some of that. I just...I just thought the whole thing was so OTT (the kill scene) I rolled my eyes.


    I did like parts of the episode (mostly Lenore).

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  27. Freda23 April 2014 at 04:03

    I felt that the only reason Dean fell hostage was because of Sam though.

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  28. Raina23 April 2014 at 04:10

    Loved this episode. It felt like the "old" Supernatural. I sometimes miss the days when they simply drove from town to town killing vampires and the rest.

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  29. Ginger23 April 2014 at 04:13

    The SPN writers are not world-building in any sense of the word. All they do is dream up an episode as an excuse to bring an actor back. I am all for an expanded SPNverse and support characters, if that verse supports the concept of Supernatural and the characters support the Winchesters. I normally like Jody Mills, but I do not care if Jody Mills is going through a grieving process. I don't care about a vampire's meaning of family or loss of family -- especially vampires we will never seen again. I do not care if Jody fosters Annie or anything else about Annie.
    I really, really dislike that every week I say something negative about the show. I love the show, but I do expect a story to be told that I can be involved in and hope the good guys win. As it is, I watch to see the ten minutes JA is on-screen, and only then because I've invested almost a decade in the show. But, hey, I thought the episode lightning was good tonight, I liked seeing the snow, and I liked the "Look at me, bitch."

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  30. MythAl23 April 2014 at 04:13

    Funny thing is I think Jensen is really overdoing his faces when he gets angry. I thought same in "Blade Runners" with the lips acting. I'm dreading already what faces he will do the close we get to the season finale and he uses the first blade. Is he going to act like a T-rex? Don't even get me start about the Batman growling voice. What some find amazing acting I find myself being pulled away from the storyline due this overdoing. The pace isn't helping either. JMO of course.
    And Dean is being so arrogant that it is making me disliking him more and more. What about putting all the blame about what happened to Sam and Kevin in Gadreel last episode and not him? What about the way he acted all self righteous and sarcastic when Sam was bleeding to death? And again we don't get Sam's POV. Berens chose to get Jody Mills back when Sam was starting to talk something. Why not when Dean was getting all the time to give Sam his point of view? About killing monsters and yada yada?
    It's really frustrating.

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  31. percysowner23 April 2014 at 04:13

    Actually, I checked with Closed Captioning. Dean said "I know. You WOULDN'T have done it too", telling Sam that he thinks Sam would have let him die.

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  32. Peter J423 April 2014 at 04:15

    I normally like Jody Mills, but I do not care if Jody Mills is going through a grieving process.


    If Jody was a one episode character, I would agree, but as she's been around since season 5, I was glad to get to remember more of her history. I also thought they used her history to shed more light on how Sam and Dean are feeling at the moment.

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  33. lala223 April 2014 at 04:16

    I wish we were getting more words about the MOC and its impact on Dean. The shots of him drinking and staring at himself aren't doing much for me. I want to hear from Dean how he feels, you know?

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  34. Peter J423 April 2014 at 04:16

    I don't think Dean would ever say it out loud. I guess they could try an internal monologue.

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  35. MythAl23 April 2014 at 04:17

    Which makes me think: I'm supposed to fell sorry for him?

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  36. D Fink23 April 2014 at 04:18

    Loved this episode because it was finally Supernatural again. It was probaby one of my most favorite vampire episodes. I personally don't see anything different about Dean at all with this Mark Of Cain. Cain said Dean was worthy of the mark, so whatever Dean does, he's always had that inside him. The mark is not changing him, but bringing out his darkness. He's a killer and he's obviously been enjoying killing for a long time now. He loved Purgatory where he could kill and right now he seems no different than when it showed those flashbacks from his time there.
    I hope the Mark of Cain crap doesn't go on too long because it's boring. Sam's story always ends before it basically begins, so I hope Dean's does as well. But, if it goes on longer, then I really hope how we see Dean's behavior affecting Sam and not just how it's affecting Dean. Cause for how many seasons now something has been happening to Sam and all we get to see is how Dean is affected by it and not Sam.
    There either is something wrong with Sam or he's supernatural because you don't lose that much blood and then get up and walk around. Sam should have gone unconscious if he had been drained of blood and he would have been almost dead. Either that or that vampire was stupid and thought he sucked all Sam's blood out.

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  37. Ginger23 April 2014 at 04:21

    Dean took out three demons earlier this season and last season killed a whole vampire nest by himself. Here, just as a means to get Jody hooked up with Mama and Annie, both of our legendary hunters get easily taken down. I know it is an unwritten rule with this bunch of writers that the guest stars must have their own awesome moments and the brothers must to be dumbed down for them to do it, but I just keep thinking there is probably better ways to tell a story.

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  38. MythAl23 April 2014 at 04:27

    There is Ginger but these writers are too weak to do that. It's the same old, same old. Sam tied up again? Really, REALLY?

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  39. Peter J423 April 2014 at 04:28

    I'm not sure it's about the guest star as it is about the usual plot functions. They always end up having Dean and Sam surprised or knocked out to keep suspense going. They have from the first season.

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  40. Peter J423 April 2014 at 04:29

    I can see why you feel that it's overacting - I guess I just see it as Dean's darker nature, and some of the lip pursing Jensen tends to do. Maybe if I didn't find it hot I'd be more annoyed.


    I think Dean is hurt and doesn't want to open up to Sam's concern or advice. It's a shield.


    I agree that we should have more Sam POV.

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  41. Hellboy23 April 2014 at 04:45

    But Sam was able to escape on his own accord.

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  42. sue23 April 2014 at 05:07

    Dean untied sam he didn't escape on his own he lost a lot of blood.

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  43. lala223 April 2014 at 05:27

    I couldn't agree more w/you about Annie. I was not invested in her at all. I just couldn't bring myself to care about her plight, so the episode really failed for me.

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  44. lala223 April 2014 at 05:29

    I didn't care for that lip thing in BR either.

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  45. lala223 April 2014 at 05:31

    What exactly is Dean saying? That Sam wouldn't have saved him from those vamps?

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  46. lala223 April 2014 at 05:32

    I guess since I didn't care about Alex at all, it wouldn't have been tough for me. Haha!

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  47. lala223 April 2014 at 05:34

    Ginger, there is DEFINITELY a better way to tell the story, but the writers keep picking from the same bin.

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  48. lala223 April 2014 at 05:37

    He would though. Remember the end of CSPWDT or H&H? Dean may talk to someone he trust when he's comfortable and ready.


    Do you think this story is wrapping up by the end of the season? If so, I don't know how they are going to do it justice.

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  49. MythAl23 April 2014 at 05:40

    Exactly. Aparently Dean doesn't know how to interpret what a person is saying. Sam said "same circunstances". And he is acting like Sam won't do it in every situation. And the way he was sarcastic when saying it and Sam was bleeding to death was awful.

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  50. lala223 April 2014 at 05:43

    And due to that significant blood loss, Sam shouldn't have been up and running at the end of the episode. That was just silly. Don't write him as being drained of a lot of his blood if you don't want to make it even a bit realistic.

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  51. MythAl23 April 2014 at 05:45

    Of course they wouldn't care about details. It's Sam we are talking about.

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  52. Peter J423 April 2014 at 05:51

    Dean feels too ashamed and I don't think he'd trust anyone at this point. When he confided his feelings about Hell, in season 4, he ended up having it used against him and breaking him.


    I don't think he can handle talking about it because he doesn't understand it and he doesn't have that bond with Sam, or anyone else, now.

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  53. lala223 April 2014 at 05:52

    I know, right? Sam should have been on the ground, not up and talking like he was A-OK!

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  54. Peter J423 April 2014 at 05:53

    (sorry I don't mean to keep replying to you)


    The thing with Annie is I think she was a mirror for the other characters, as well as a character. She represented Dean, Sam, and Jody, in various ways.

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  55. Peter J423 April 2014 at 05:54

    I'd say it's just the way they move along. I remember last season in the golem episode, Dean was thrown across a parking lot onto a windshield. He was fine.

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  56. lala223 April 2014 at 05:54

    He's cool w/Cas. He could talk to him.



    Basically, I'd like to see him do something other than stare at his reflection in mirrors or happily kill monsters. Haha! Dean's always loved the hunt so I need more than that.

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  57. lala223 April 2014 at 05:56

    I hate inconsistencies like that though. It's annoying. I can't help but think, "That hit would have killed Dean or knocked him unconscious much longer," etc.

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  58. lala223 April 2014 at 05:59

    No need to apologize :-)

    I missed the beginning of the episode, and my sister is a chatty Cathy so she talked a lot through it. Back in the day, I would have demanded her complete silence as the episode aired, but times have changed.

    Admittedly, I may have missed the parallels. From what I saw, I didn't care much about her or her problems. I saw the episode as a vehicle for Jody. I like Jody, but I'm not all that interested in her grief or seeing a whole show about her.

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  59. lala223 April 2014 at 06:17

    Yeah, the writer of the episode just confirmed that Dean was throwing Sam's words back in Sam's face.

    But why would Dean continue to hunt w/Sam if he doesn't think Sam would have tried to save him from being killed by those vamps!?!?!?

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  60. fazziemodo23 April 2014 at 06:28

    You mean the same way that Sam wasn't able to see that Dean would put him first last season what with the continuous cooking and nursing and taking his friend's head to get him out of purgatory? Both boys are as bad as each other when they want to be.


    On the surface Alex's story is an analogy to Sam but it could be applied to both boys if you think about it. In the end Alex just swapped one messed up mother for another, cause that is what Jody admitted. It is a lot healthier sure but the girl isn't exactly out of the supernatural world is she. Dean just swapped one codependence for another Sam for killing.

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  61. Sara23 April 2014 at 06:34

    Jodi made it out alive! I thought this might be it for her.

    I really couldn't figure out who Alex would wind up choosing. She obviously wanted away from the vampires and couldn't take being the bait that got people killed anymore - so she ran away. But she had just spent so many years with them that she was understandably attached to the vampires. I'm glad they were able to save her (as Dean was one cured of being a vampire).

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  62. percysowner23 April 2014 at 06:36

    I think he's trying to break Sam's resolve about not giving Dean a pass on the Gadreel possession. Dean wanted Sam to hit him, then say he understood and that Sam would have done the same thing and everything goes back to where it was before. Heck, Dean wants that even though he has not apologized for the WAY he saved Sam. He has said he did nothing wrong. This is very similar to the Amy situation where Sam caved and told Dean that Sam was wrong and Dean was right. But Sam isn't doing that this time. He's not running away. He's working with Dean. He's asking Dean how Dean is. He's showing concern. He's telling Dean when he sees changes in Dean that bother him. But he is NOT just caving to Dean. So Dean is hurt and hitting back. Partly because he has always believed that Sam won't do as much for Dean as Dean will for Sam, but also because if he can get Sam to say "of course I would save you, that gives Dean the opening to get Sam to say yes, I would have done the exact thing you did. I was wrong. You were right."

    I'm not saying Dean is being knowingly manipulative. He has talked himself into taking Sam's I wouldn't do the same thing in the same circumstances and conflated it into I wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire. But it is also a tactic to get the situation back to the way Dean is comfortable with.

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  63. Peter J423 April 2014 at 06:48

    I do too. I guess I just sort of am numb to it now.

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  64. Peter J423 April 2014 at 06:49

    I think he's ashamed to talk to Cas about it.


    I do know what you mean. I think his willingness to kill the girl is another sign though (not just of the mark, but of his decaying mental state and empathy even before the mark).

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  65. Peter J423 April 2014 at 06:51

    Alex was Sam in that she was young and felt pushed into a life that she didn't want, but felt obligated to continue. She was Dean in that something was transforming her, something she agreed to to try to help stop her pain.


    I read a meta that said Alex, Jody, and the vampire mother all represented sides of Dean. I think that's true.

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  66. Emily23 April 2014 at 07:33

    I thought the episode was good. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it either. I was never really bored. My biggest complaint though is that I'm tired of feeling like Sam and Dean are the side characters to everything. Not even with just this episode. Even with the demons and the angels. Thank God for Dean's Mark of Cain storyline because it's the only thing I really care about besides the brothers trying to get past this Gadreel thing. On that subject, it would be one thing if we continued to see them fight or something, but I feel like I'm in relationship purgatory with them. As controversial as Sam's words were, they needed to be said. Now they just make snide remarks at each other and slam doors. I think the big reason why people are complaining, myself included, is that the magic of this show is just gone. When Sam and Dean don't have that relationship it feels rather dull. Even when they are actually fighting, it is interesting. It's heartbreaking, but at least I feel like something is going on. Overall, I'm just waiting for some progression in any storyline.

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  67. Ross23 April 2014 at 12:10

    It was fine. I wouldn't call it good, and I wouldn't call it bad. It was just fine. However I think Sam and Dean were on screen less than 10 minutes.

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  68. rehabber23 April 2014 at 12:20

    Super ep, loved Jody DID NOT get killed, the brothers were good together and it was a monster of the week, just like old times. Dean getting more powerful, "Look at me, bitch".

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  69. rehabber23 April 2014 at 12:23

    If they wanted to make this show realistic, then both brothers would have been dead in season one.

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  70. Pearcecymru23 April 2014 at 12:32

    Wish they would stop with all the spin offs and just plough all the good storylines and effort to keep the show at a high standard cause Like the others comments on here, I am slowly losing interest:(

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  71. sharonally23 April 2014 at 13:16

    If the show had been more honest with the Gadreel possession sl than I would care more about Dean , why , where and when with him.

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  72. San Summer23 April 2014 at 13:36

    You wouldn’t have done it, too

    I took that to mean he was mocking Sam as in “All the things you said to me were crap, see Sammy, this is what we do”. Except Sam was talking about how he would not trick his brother into letting an angel possess him…

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  73. San Summer23 April 2014 at 14:00

    There either is something wrong with Sam or he's supernatural because you don't lose that much blood and then get up and walk around. Sam should have gone unconscious if he had been drained of blood and he would have been almost dead.

    Could Sam have some grace still inside of him that sort of helps him out a bit? He was possessed by Lucifer but maybe the angel grace thing didn’t work quite in the same way back then because Sam’s body was pulled from the cage etc.

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  74. CP23 April 2014 at 14:16

    Dean took it as Sam wouldn't save him. There was something else that Sam said that added to this. The "we're not brothers" part. That's why Dean threw the comment it Sam's face.

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  75. CP23 April 2014 at 14:19

    It can be a little realistic though. Not hard to have Sam be a little whoozy.

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  76. comicfangirl23 April 2014 at 14:31

    That's just the same I saw in the episode too, Peter.

    Then again, Supernatural does that in almost every episode, for 9 (!) years now, mirror the current state the Winchester family relationship with the guest cast.
    Mostly Sam and Dean don't really seem to get what they see right before their eyes, or just need "some" repeats as in 23 Episodes ;) ;) to finally get it.

    After all this time, the Winchesters should already get the pattern, as long with the ever not wanting to see part of the fandom. ;)

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  77. San Summer23 April 2014 at 14:34

    It is interesting if they show Dean’s mental state deteriorating to a point where he equals tricking Sam into being possessed to stopping Sam from being drained dry by vampires. It’s all the same to him now.

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  78. comicfangirl23 April 2014 at 14:57

    I doubt that angel grace residue is left in Sam.
    As for Sam stumbling around due the blood loss, I think the show has established very early on, that most of the injuries the Winchesters suffer from while hunting, may look terrible, but since the show isn't called "ER, featuring Sam and Dean", they heal pretty fast, and they simply don't have the time to take a sick day.

    Is that all in all realistic that they mostly recover that fast?
    No.
    Is Supernatural a documentary on hunting real existing monsters?
    No.
    Does the show require lots and lots of "suspension of disbelieve" with declaring all those monsters of myth and legend to be real?
    Of course. Then having Sam stumbling around with a blurry vision, white as a sheet after the blood loss is somewhat normal in the world of Supernatural.

    Besides it would totally be in character for Sam not being held down by injuries if Dean needs back up, and facing vampy mom in the basement counts as such I'd say.

    Of course if it helps to emphasize a certain plot point, then we get to see one of the Winchesters suffering from an injury that requires to be treated by a physician or even a hospital stay.
    But since the show is about hunting the Supernatural I'm okay with not seeing the Winchesters end up at the next ER each and every episode.

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  79. CP23 April 2014 at 15:30

    After all their fighting Dean just is worried about loyalty. He's got a simple mind frame about it - you either do or don't. No grey.


    I don't think it's right, but nothing about the brother's relationship this season has been right.

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  80. spnrules123 April 2014 at 15:40

    I feel Sam has some grace left in him as well as demon blood. Not sure that is the reason why he was up stumbling around because Sam definitely needed to be at a hospital being treated.

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  81. CP23 April 2014 at 15:43

    I think Dean's pretty much been that way for a while. Even in Season 5 when he promised Sam he wouldn't try to bring him back he did (offscreen).


    He's just become more desperate over time.


    Meanwhile Sam's been going the opposite way.


    Summer before Season 4 he tried to get Dean out of Hell by making another deal and was a mess. Season 8 he was living a pretty normal life even though he didn't know where exactly Dean had gone.

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  82. Ginger23 April 2014 at 15:50

    My problem is that these writers dream up an episode just to bring an actor back, not to shed light on the Winchester characters or their story. An example from this episode: Dean showed a lot of concern for Jodi in inserting herself in the hunt. Then, when they get to the vampire nest house, an unchecked house, they leave her downstairs while the both of them go upstairs. In character Dean would have left Sam downstairs to protect Jodi, thinking he could handle anything upstairs by himself -- especially if the MoC is having that great of an effect on him.
    As it was, the writer needed Jodi to go off by herself so her story could be told and the Winchesters became support characters to her story.
    World-building with interesting characters is one thing, but they and their story should have something to do with the Winchesters or the story being told. Writing an episode as an excuse to use an actor again is something else.
    The only parallel I saw in the story was between Jodi and Mama Vamp. I could even squint a lot and say that perhaps Alex and Sam were paralleled in their ambivalence about family, but that would introduce something else very small into the season's lagging Winchester story and I don't think that was being done.
    I know that the writer tried to show the growing MoC influence on Dean, and that came through. However, Dean always uses violence when he is hurt or is carrying a heavy burden (kill Sam if you can't save him, John's death), and this is the guy who killed three demons on his own this season and took out an entire vampire nest himself last season. This is the guy that lived a year in Purgatory fighting 24/7, 360 degrees. This is the guy who chopped a vamp's head off with a buzz saw and didn't even blink...so, weak effort, but it came through.

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  83. spnrules123 April 2014 at 15:52

    I loved everything you said in your review. I agree that this is the Dean we have seen for a long time except the mark is enhancing how he has feeling. He admitted to enjoying torturing in Hell and loved Purgatory as you have mentioned. I would have enjoyed the MoC story better if we would have had more of Sam's insight/POV/story to balance Dean's arc but sadly no. Sam is just shoved aside for a Season 9 that is all about Dean. I hope the MoC is all wrapped up and over in the finale.


    Since Gadreel was expelled by Sam we should have been seeing how Sam has been affected by the possession as well as what is happening with Dean. That is how it has always been for Dean and now TPTB act as if they can't write for Sam. Sam is such a mystery and I want to hear him. I want to see his broken side and that is not saying Dean isn't but I know all I could know about Dean but not Sam. I still have the opinion that Sam is insecure in ways and really does have a fear of letting his big brother down.


    I do agree about Sam and how he was after being drained of that much blood. I feel he has some grace left in him (and demon blood), however I am not sure that is the reason. If anything I relate that to the same scenario of Sam being drained of blood in Jump the Shark. Sam should be off to the ER being treated.

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  84. CP23 April 2014 at 15:53

    Yeah, but not as often and there was more purpose to it. Plus better overall written episodes.

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  85. A Bad Person23 April 2014 at 16:15

    I loved this episode. Just loved it. I think what impressed me the most what that the series allowed Jody to express the grief that shaped her. I have to admit, at times during the course of these later seasons, I was a little worried that her back-story would never be brought up again, that it would just be left to linger in the back of the viewer's mind. I'm not saying that I want it brought up in every episode she's in or anything, I'm just glad that it was acknowledged, that we were shown how that trauma that shaped her into who she is now still motives her in the same way we're often reminded about how the traumatic events in Dean and Sam's lives have molded them.


    I've seen a few comments here saying that people didn't much care for Annie. I wonder; was it because the actress displayed the character in a way that was emotionally alien to the way a viewer would typically want someone to think or act in that situation (I guess in terms of morality?). I thought it was an interesting portrayal of how someone might be, raised in an environment where they're encouraged to suppress their conscience as a healthy thing, almost as a survival technique.


    I also like the way Jody took a firm stance regarding Annie. She listened to Sam and Dean and their lecture/rant on why Annie couldn't be trusted or possibly even saved, asked the right question, namely whether Annie was officially on their 'list' and then asserted that if they tried to hurt her, she would definitely get in their way. I just...really like dhow she handled it. She was angry and stubborn, but still willing to listen, to hear them out and tell them quite simply and unabashedly that she' wasn't going to fall in line with their way of thinking and in a way that didn't waste too much time. It was kinda refreshing to see in a show like that, especially one where sometimes arguments are played up for drama's sake or in a way that leaves the audience raging at the screen.

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  86. spnrules123 April 2014 at 16:22

    I think Jensen is a great actor however I do think there is a bit of overacting going on. I have to say your T-rex comment made me giggle. Funny how many people I see commenting on this as well as the growly voice he is using.

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  87. spnrules123 April 2014 at 16:31

    Dean's interpretation of what Sam said is really a big problem. I wasn't happy at all Dean threw that at him but at this point it doesn't surprise me either. I do believe Sam was ready to take the fall for killing that vamp to protect Dean. Too bad Dean was unconscious and wasn't able to see how worried Sam was for him. IMO Sam had a point to what he said to Dean but also said what he did to be hurtful. We are lacking in serious Sam insight.

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  88. spnrules123 April 2014 at 16:32

    Good question. Too bad we will never know the real answer.

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  89. lala223 April 2014 at 16:49

    I don't think this issue will be raised again, but I thought Castiel did leave angel grace in Sam. He stopped short of killing Sam to remove the grace b/c he didn't want Sam to die. I could be wrong, but I thought there was leftover grace in him.
    In any event, sloppy writing is what likely had Sam up and walking when he should have been on the ground, not anything else.

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  90. lala223 April 2014 at 16:51

    Nice insight. It wasn't that deep for me, but I'm a bit disillusioned w/Supernatural right now.

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  91. spnrules123 April 2014 at 16:59

    I agree with both you and Theresa in regards to Dean. I see the same Dean we did way back in S2 just a bit more enhanced due to the mark. OTOH, I am not liking the MoC/Dark!Dean story at all and that is due to the total lack of Sam's insight/story. I hope this whole MoC arc is resolved by finale time.

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  92. percysowner23 April 2014 at 17:09

    I wasn't sure if Sam was going to take the rap. Dean was unconscious, the vamps said "Hell of a thing coming home and finding your brother dead" "Pretty good trade, a brother for a brother". If Sam said he did it, the vamp was implying he going to kill Dean.f Sam said Dean did it, the vamp was threatening to kill Sam so Dean would wake up and find Sam dead. It's really hard to know which was the best way to keep Dean alive. I thought Sam was in a real Catch 22 situation, so he was just shutting up. He could have said, I did it and then have the vamps make him watch Dean die. I'm sure Sam knew that the vamps would eventually kill them both, but his silence got them to start on him first.

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  93. percysowner23 April 2014 at 17:15

    I'm pretty sure Cas said Sam's body was burning off Gad's remaining Grace. The reason they were extracting it was because they could use it to track Gad and if they didn't get it quickly it would burn off. I believe whatever Cas didn't extract was burnt out.

    I really hope that is true, because he told Sam the Grace was gone. Sam has been told enough lies about his body and what is happening to it this season. I don't want Cas to have lied about the fact there was leftover Grace in Sam. I would have no problem is Cas said I can't get any more out, but there is some there. I would have no problem if Cas said If I get anymore out you will die and I won't be a party to your suicide. I will have big issues if Cas knew there was leftover Grace and just let Sam think it was all gone.

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  94. lala223 April 2014 at 17:18

    Ahhh . . . .I found that line a bit confusing, and your interpretation makes more sense b/c I can't see why Dean would travel and hunt w/Sam if he seriously thought Sam would leave him to those vampires.

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  95. lala223 April 2014 at 17:19

    Well, I definitely think Dean sees both instances as "saving" Sam.

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  96. lala223 April 2014 at 17:24

    I know, right? That honestly makes no sense.
    If Dean doesn't trust that Sam would save him in a bad situation, then they need to go their separate ways. I felt similarly after Sam's two speeches this year. If Dean is such a horrible brother who is preventing you from living the way you want, leave.
    That's why I hate this endless brother conflict. These two grown men do not have to be together, and it makes no sense for them to stay together if there is NO trust btw them. Putting aside who is to blame for the loss of trust . . . I'm just saying this scenario makes no sense!

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  97. lala223 April 2014 at 17:28

    What do you mean? Sam certainly expressed how he felt about the possession. What do you think the writers neglected to say about it?
    Personally, I feel the Gadreel possession has been pushed off to the side. After those two horrible speeches Sam gave - I know you liked them but I thought they were poorly written, OTT, and didn't keep the sympathy w/Sam - we've heard no more about it. The past few episodes have had the brothers being fine w/each other . . . so much so that I wonder if they are still upset/angry with each other.
    I don't think the aftermath of the possession story is being told well, but then none of the stories this year are being told well IMO.

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  98. lala223 April 2014 at 17:35

    I do think Sam's speeches played on Dean's insecurities. I understand why Dean heard it the way he did b/c I heard it the way he did. Someone had to post the transcript b/c I seriously heard, "No, I wouldn't save you. Good night." I always thought Sam could have used the example of that zombie doctor to make his point to Dean, but the writers wanted the brothers in conflict so Sam was unnecessarily vague and cold about the whole thing. The declaration that they couldn't be brothers didn't help either, IMO.
    So, I understand why Dean feels the way he does. Given how he feels, it's not clear to me why he's hunting w/Sam, but then, I don't know why Sam is hunting period, let alone w/Dean.
    For me, Carver has done some irreparable and unnecessary damage to the brothers' relationship, which was my primary reason for watching. I'm not sure how to feel about Carver's Sam.

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  99. lala223 April 2014 at 17:38

    I'm not liking the execution of the MOC story either, spnrules! It feels very sluggish and is moving at a glacial pace. Plus, we're not getting insight (in words) from Dean OR Sam. Just like Sam rubbing his palm wasn't a (good) story for me . . . neither is Dean staring at his reflection or killing some random monster (like he's always done).
    I want and need more from this story.

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  100. lala223 April 2014 at 18:03

    As CP says below, there is a big gulf btw completely realistic and completely unrealistic. Have Sam sitting in the Impala or even lying down, drinking some OJ, being a bit shaky, pale, etc.

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  101. lala223 April 2014 at 18:07

    Hmmm . . . the way the scene played I thought it was clear Cas was lying to Sam, but I could be wrong. I even remember people speculating about it after the episode. I thought Cas lied b/c Sam would have tried to convince him to get more to do the spell. And I guess if it was going to burn off anyway, maybe Cas didn't see the harm in lying about the remainder. I'm not sure.

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  102. percysowner23 April 2014 at 18:14

    I have seen other people say that too, that Cas was acting "hinky" and lying to Sam. I just don't want Sam to find out ANOTHER person he trusted lied to him about the state of his own body. I have wanted Cas and Sam to become closer and if Cas is lying to Sam as well, then I just can't see it happen. Sam has virtually no one to talk to. I don't want the few people who do talk to him to be lying to him about his own physical state.

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  103. San Summer23 April 2014 at 19:17

    That would be weird! But maybe your interpretation is right because I could see the mark giving Dean such a boost in confidence that he sees himself dragging his little brother along and showing him how it’s done despite what Sam might be protesting in Dean’s mind.

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  104. Canadagraphs23 April 2014 at 19:19

    Felt like a pretty forgettable throw away episode to me.

    The Sherriff Mills/Vampbait redemption storyline didn't draw me in. I really cant find myself caring if they live happily ever after & I used to like Sherriff Mills character.
    Only redeeming factor of the ep was Seeing Dean show his "I like to kill" persona. But it wasn't enough to save this weak episode.

    Not sure if its the writing, or the fact they have done everything & seems like every episode is completely or at least partially recycled stuff, but they have terribly missed the mark since about midway through season 8.

    Went from 1 of my top 5 shows less than 2 years ago, to clinging to life on my top 20 list.

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  105. San Summer23 April 2014 at 19:22

    I agree that there would be a problem but maybe Cas as an angel doesn’t really see things the same way because it’s about something angelic. Maybe he knows that the grace could become useful one day. It’s already been proven to be a way to make spells work.

    It seems a little funny if extracting the grace from Sam was just a B plot in one episode considering it was in the same episode where Dean got the mark of Cain. And how Cas’ grace issues are gonna play a part in the race to the finale. But maybe Sam was there to reintroduce the concept of an angel’s grace…

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  106. lala223 April 2014 at 19:28

    Hmmmm . . . that's interesting. If Sam still has grace in him, he could pass it off to Cas if Cas needed some.

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  107. lala223 April 2014 at 19:30

    That was definitely the vibe I got from the scene (i.e., that Cas was lying), but I don't think he was doing so to be mean or cruel. I think he saw that Sam was willing to die to assist him in the locator spell, and he didn't think Sam's life was worth the spell. He knew Sam would protest so Cas told him he took all of it.
    I haven't seen that episode since it aired, but that was my take on that scene.

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  108. lala223 April 2014 at 19:34

    Haha! I don't have an interpretation :-)
    I didn't record the episode so I can't go back and watch it again. I just don't see why Dean would travel/hunt with Sam if he thought Sam would let any monster they run into kill him. That doesn't make any sense.

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  109. San Summer23 April 2014 at 19:53

    It’s definitely an example of more of a black and white thinking. Dean said earlier on:

    “I'm poison, Sam. People get close to me, they get killed...or worse. --- I can't, I won't... Drag anybody through the muck with me. Not anymore.“

    “I know I took a piece of you in the process, and for that... Somebody changed the playbook, man, you know? It's like what -- what -- what's right is wrong and what's wrong is more wrong.”

    He didn’t use to equal saving Sam’s life by tricking him to let an angel in to saving Sam on a regular vampire hunt.

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  110. San Summer23 April 2014 at 20:11

    Maybe they try to develop things to a certain way because they need there to be any chance of Dean thinking Sam could become corrupt and thus needing to be “saved” even if it means killing him. So now Dean sees Sam as someone who is not willing to put his ass on the line for his brother like Dean is. But overall I heard it as a dig at Sam, more of a sarcastic remark than accusatory.

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  111. San Summer23 April 2014 at 20:31

    Yeah, I mean it could be just one of those things where heroes can endure a lot more than what is realistic but at the same time they showed in 9.16 Blade Runners how weak people got because someone was drinking their blood. They died in fact so the writers should be aware that Sam’s blood loss should have had a bigger effect on him than just being dizzy and needing to hold on to something.

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  112. Peter J423 April 2014 at 22:48

    I would too, but I'd rather watch most of those than anything since season 2. Still, I feel like the show has always been clumsy about Dean and Sam being knocked out too easily.

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  113. Peter J423 April 2014 at 22:51

    People have been joking about the growly voice since season 6 or 7.

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  114. Peter J423 April 2014 at 22:52

    I can see why. I've been there with SPN myself. I tend to go back and forth. I don't mean to give the impression you're wrong about your feelings on the show.

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  115. Peter J423 April 2014 at 22:57

    One of the reasons I liked this episode is *because* it didn't feel recycled to me. They've rarely handled grief and closure for the characters as well as they did with Jody and Ann in this episode.

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  116. lala224 April 2014 at 02:12

    Oh, you didn't do that at all. No worries :-)

    I wish I were in a more positive place about Supernatural since it used to be my favorite show, but that is no longer the case.

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  117. lala224 April 2014 at 02:29

    Well, the writer says Dean was throwing Sam's words back in Sam's face so I guess it was more accusatory, which leads me back to questioning why Dean hunts w/Sam if he doesn't believe Sam would save him from the monster they are currently fighting.

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  118. CP24 April 2014 at 02:58

    It's true, for wounds too. I remember them getting their faces all slashed in Season 1, scar worthy slashes on their faces and the next episode not a trace was on their faces.


    That's why I really liked that they had Dean's knuckles be scarred up for a while after "Lazarus Rising" up to "Heaven and Hell". I like details.

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  119. MythAl24 April 2014 at 03:36

    Well some spoilers about the season finale leaked today. What can I say, I'm truly disheartened about them. If you are a fan of the brotherly bond you will hate it. Since it's spoilerTV I don't think it's a problem to say that. Carver is really going to shoot himself on his foot. There are talking about people not willing to watch the finale anymore and leaving the show altogether.

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  120. Peter J424 April 2014 at 04:05

    Is this more of the usual gossip that goes around every season (I think the one last year had Dean dying and only Cas could see him...) or is it an article, or...?

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  121. MythAl24 April 2014 at 04:25

    Aparently It was from a person who read the script. Dean will become fully dark. The season finale will focus on the villains (Metatron, Abaddon and Crowley) and one of them is important to Dean's story, which affects Sam and the other two die. Castiel isn't with the brother when the cliffhanger happens. MoC will play an important part and starts in "King of Damned". The brothers rift will be dragged to season 10.


    When we take in consideration what Carver said about uneasy alliances and shocking consequences, I think these spoilers are true.


    My guess is Crowley becomes Dean's BFF and somehow he turns his back on Sam, or Dean joining Abaddon or Dean killing Abaddon makes him a Knight of Hell himself (this being the shocking revelation that Jensen said would happen in 9x21).

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  122. Peter J424 April 2014 at 04:31

    Thanks. I mean, I feel like they've been building up to a rift that can't heal this season, because of where Dean and Sam are mentally, but I do think they're suggesting it will be repaired next season.


    I feel like Crowley and Metatron have both been set up to die this season, so I kind of wonder if Dean joins up with Abaddon, and next season is about Sam (or Sam and Cas, if Cas is still around) bringing him back.


    I'm sorry that this is upsetting fans. I can't offer false encouragement but I hope that it will turn out OK. I think the idea is really good and could lead to something good for the brothers, but then again, the execution is often a mess.

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  123. Peter J424 April 2014 at 04:32

    It's funny because Jody, who has a lot of time to heal offcamera, is the one who gets these injuries that last. I was surprised they remembered her shoulder.

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  124. MythAl24 April 2014 at 04:33

    That's why I'm disheartened. I don't think these writers can do something good about it.

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  125. Peter J424 April 2014 at 04:34

    I do think that if it's anon stuff then it may be something that - I don't want to say made up, but may be something that is sort of spun around and around in fandom. So I kind of wonder how much will turn out to be true. I guess we will see.

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  126. MythAl24 April 2014 at 04:36

    Yeah and it was said that Jensen is not happy about it. Judging what we heard from his podcast about him wanting to go back to the old Dean, it's not so far from the truth.

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  127. Peter J424 April 2014 at 05:41

    That's interesting. I know he also said he really liked the change in Dean to having a more lead story. Sometimes I feel like fans say he dislikes all his stories. But you're right he did say this season had tired him out. I don't know.

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  128. MythAl24 April 2014 at 05:57

    Which I don't agree with him. Honestly I think Dean is a caracter so overexplored that we know the color of the boxer shorts he likes to use. Even when the mytharc is Sam's, we are heavy handed with Dean's emotions about every single step of the way. Meanwhile Sam is still a mystery. Dean is the caracter that talks to the big bads, who gets to act all bad*ss, who moves the things forward. I think this is a lead story.
    Meanwhile Sam is a mystery. Seriously Dean has the mytharc now and STILL has the POV. Since the beggining of S9 it was never about the violation he caused to his brother. It was a plot point to get Dean to think the "I'm poison" cr*p so he gets the MoC. And now I'm afraid Sam's violation is never going to be mentioned because next season it's going to be about "we need to save poor Dean from the darkside" and he is not going to apologize for what he did to Sam.

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  129. Canadagraphs24 April 2014 at 08:11

    Interesting point. Doubt it changes my stance on them, but it validates their story a tad bit more.
    I agree that long running shows always run into that problem.
    No show EXPECTS 9+ seasons when they pitch their pilot, so they aren't envisioning how much material they need to draw from.
    It is still better than 80% of whats on TV. Its just not better than 98%, like it used to be.

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  130. Peter J424 April 2014 at 13:07

    We know a lot about how Dean feels, but I think Jensen felt it was time to stop feeling and start changing and acting. I liked a lot of the writing for Dean in season 8, so I have mixed feelings about the change, but I do think the story has been strong. But we do need so much more POV for Sam. Ideally we will get that now that Dean is going to be going further from our reach.

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  131. Peter J424 April 2014 at 13:07

    I do wish they'd allow some other characters to stay around longer. That would help freshen things up.

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  132. comicfangirl24 April 2014 at 14:53

    The idea sounds great, but as we all know, scripts get rewrites even on the set, scenes are cut from the final material and so on.
    So we just have to wait and see......like every year. ;)

    My guess is Dean kills Abaddon, and this makes him a the last Knight of Hell, and he has to follow Crowley to hell. So the first half of season 10 is about Sam and Cas trying to free Dean, second half is to get rid of Metatron for good.

    Well I would love to see end the whole Metatron / angels plot with the end of season 9, but I can also see them not ending it, and being carried on as long as the show is on air. Not that I want or like that at all.

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  133. comicfangirl24 April 2014 at 14:56

    People stop watching shows all the time, and those who threaten to stop so loudly on the net, just don't quit, but watch only to complain on the net like five year olds.

    Does anyone really take those empty threads seriously ?The episode hasn't even aired. LOL

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  134. Canadagraphs24 April 2014 at 18:54

    Wow. I was JUST having that conversation with someone on the phone before I came back in here. We talked about how many quality characters they killed off too soon, thus putting too much story on the shoulders of 2 characters, who while they ARE the show, cant do it all by themselves.
    A good show needs a deep secondary cast, and this show doesn't have it because they constantly kill them off. Right now they have Misha, Mark and on the outer circles Curtis, Alaina and Tahmoh filling the void. That's not a deep enough well of talent to fill out a quality story for 23 episodes.

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  135. Lubbeelou25 April 2014 at 21:47

    I enjoyed the episode! It was a standalone which I've been craving for a while. I hope they sort out all the Abaddon/Crowley/Castiel stuff soon because that's dragging for me. Next season I want to see more monsters not just demons, angels and vampires

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