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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

Supernatural - Season 9 - Jensen Ackles Interview [AUDIO]

10 Mar 2014

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Thanks to Elena for the heads up.

This is a very special edition of Winchester Radio. Jensen Ackles joins us to chat about Supernatural's ninth season. We discuss the Mark of Cain, Dean Winchester's evolution over nine seasons, and much, much more.

Source: List to the audio here @ blogtalkradio
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197 comments:

  1. klutzy_girl10 March 2014 at 16:35

    Ooh, great interview! Love him.

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  2. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 17:30

    Excellent interview! Loved listening to him and getting more of his perspective on what's happening with Dean.

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  3. SupernaturallyMe10 March 2014 at 17:47

    Interviews with him seem rare so thank you for the treat. Unfortunately, it seems that the brothers are still at odds by episode 20...

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  4. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 17:55

    Well, at least they aren't going for the quick fix and gloss over. Right?

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  5. San Summer10 March 2014 at 18:04

    Amazing interview, I appreciate Jensen giving thorough answers and not hiding behind “it’s a secret” like sometimes especially TV producers do.

    But wow at some of the stuff he is saying (Sam-centric world). I wonder how they have been writing Sam in these upcoming scripts!

    Exciting that he mention Dean becoming like his father! That’s what I have been thinking watching their conflict. Dean taking over and Sam wanting to make his own choices.

    Thank god he did not like season 6 Dean. I took a break from the show back then and one of the reasons was how they portrayed Dean. Now I feel better :D

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  6. sharonally10 March 2014 at 18:09

    No but then Jensen is making sure Sam is seen as the 'selfish asshole' .

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  7. SupernaturallyMe10 March 2014 at 18:11

    I suppose. I just hoped there would have been some kind of progress, and maybe there has. But the impression I got was that both brothers are still resolutely in their own corners.


    And also, I wonder why Crowley wouldn't take the Mark on himself. The effects that Jensen described shouldn't sound all that bad to a demon.

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  8. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 18:16

    Crowley would have probably loved to take the MoC on himself. He was just certain that Cain wouldn't give it to him, which I agree with. Cain felt a bond with Dean, a parallel to Dean and tested him.
    I don't think Cain would have given Crowley the time of day if Dean hadn't been with him.

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  9. Aline10 March 2014 at 18:19

    That interview has completely turned me off the character of Dean. If this is how he sees Sam, as being a 'selfish asshole', 'Sam only has a Sam centric view', he 'just lets things happen' and putting Deans descent into darkness on Sam then I hope to God that when the show ends Dean is left very much on his own, because that is what he deserves.

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  10. San Summer10 March 2014 at 18:21

    I think the brothers thing is key. Something drastic is going to happen to Sam by Dean that will kick in the full consequences of the mark of Cain. Crowley on the other hand doesn’t really have a soul.

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  11. MythAl10 March 2014 at 18:23

    I don't know. I just fell like some of the things he said will make the Sam vs Dean war more nasty. Telling it was Sam's story even when we get plenty of Dean emotional journey and overexploration to exaustion (he was complaining about his work schedule) is gonna give EDGs a reason to harp even more on Sam and Jared. I didn't like the "selfish asshole" either, because it gave the vibe that he thinks what Dean did is justifiable, which it's not. I would like to hear Jared takes on this too.
    So in the end all that Jensen could be Michael was for nothing because he didn't want to play the archangel in the first place.

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  12. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 18:24

    I knew as soon as he made that comment someone would take it that way. He doesn't write the scripts, you know. It's the writers, not the actors who determine the POV given, how it's perceive, etc. The actor can only do so much with what he's given. He never said that he was purposefully making sure that Sam is seen that way and he's said before that Dean is an a**hole more than once. So why don't we not bash an actor for giving his opinion, or blame him for the script he's given.

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  13. maloose10 March 2014 at 18:30

    Great interview, I'm glad they know how Sam is portrayed and hope to give him some brotherly-love sense. "selfish a******" was spot on about what Carver had made out of Sam.

    Go Dean, I really hope they go on w/ your story this time. And aww about him wanting to see his father again.

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  14. percysowner10 March 2014 at 18:34

    I haven't heard the interview yet, but the descriptions are making me nervous. If Sam comes out being the "wrong, bad" brother according to canon, I think I may be done.

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  15. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 18:36

    What are EDGs?
    He stated that Dean would have rethought the possession thing if he had to do it over again so I don't see that as thinking Dean was justified in what he did. He doesn't have any effect on the Sam vs. Dean war except what people give him. And judging on the reaction of some here, I understand why actors try not to say a lot in answer to the questions they are given, considering that fans go up in arms if their opinion is different. After all, he's also stated that he thinks Dean is an a**hole on more than one occasion so it's not like he likes one better than the other. He's always said he liked the idea that Dean has stayed mostly human throughout the series.
    I liked having some new insight to the character and what the MoC is doing to him but I do agree that we need to hear Jared's take as well. Of course, to each his own.

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  16. MythAl10 March 2014 at 18:39

    He said maybe.

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  17. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 18:42

    As far as I can tell there is no 'wrong, bad' brother according to canon. That only comes from the fans who are intolerant of which ever brother. Sam is Sam and Dean is Dean. They are both different characters with different drives.

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  18. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 18:48

    Very true. I've also thought that the full consequences of the MoC won't show until Dean actually kills Cain which is supposed to happen after he finds the First Blade. Hopefully that will be soon.
    I think you're right about the brother thing. The fact that both Cain and Dean have sacrificed their souls for their brothers and believe in not giving up on family. There are several parallels between the two.
    I've suspected since the Mark was given that this brother feud wouldn't let up until near the end of the season because the Mark can take a stronger hold when Dean's isolated like he is now. So we might have some progress but nothing like what most fans want.
    I am hoping that by the end of the season they can be on more even ground but I'm not sure that will happen or even what that would look like.

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  19. San Summer10 March 2014 at 18:51

    I think the selfish asshole thing was a joke and probably something they have seen some fans saying.

    But I, too, am really surprised by some of his choice of words. Sam hasn’t been able to save Dean like Dean has but I don’t think it can be put down as Sam being a little preoccupied or having a little brother thing.

    Sam wanted to trade places with Dean when Dean was in Hell but of course the demons had him exactly where they wanted him. And the whole thing about Sam not looking for Dean. From what I understand it was a combination of Sam honoring their agreement not to look for each other (from the moment they made it they knew it had both pros and cons), him having some sort of a breakdown (imploding) and then trying to piece his life back together and coming to terms with his brother’s death.

    I hope Jensen is sort of projecting Dean’s emotional state onto Sam because he kind of made it sound like Sam is living in a Sam-centric world because that’s how Sam sees himself and thus thinks Dean “can figure it out by himself”. That contradicts what Jensen himself admitted: the show has kind of been built on Sam being the one that has stuff happen to him.

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  20. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 18:53

    He said maybe because he's not a writer or creator of the show so he cannot say for sure. The fact that it's the first thing he thought of should show that he didn't think that Dean was 'justified' in doing it.

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  21. Nick10 March 2014 at 19:00

    I thought this was an incredibly sobering interview. Yeah, if this is how Dean sees Sam then the famed brother bond is dead because Dean sees absolutely no worth in his brother. He doesn't see the sacrifices Sam made or the good that he's done or the good in him, all he sees is a selfish asshole. Pity.


    Also, a lot of what Jensen Ackles is saying makes absolutely no sense. Re. Sam "he's not willing to put a life on the line like Dean'. Yes, he was. Last season, he was willing to put his own life on the line. Up until season 5 Sam was the one willing to put the lives of others on the life if it meant saving more people, Dean wouldn't let him do it. 'He can't save people because even when he saves people it's the wrong thing to do according to Sam'. Sam didn't even say that. Sam was speaking in relation to when he saves him, and it does more harm than good because more people die when Dean goes to huge lengths to save Sam.

    I can't help but wonder if Jensen Ackles is intentionally trying to stir crap.

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  22. San Summer10 March 2014 at 19:03

    Yeah, Cain & Crowley both made a comment how Dean was worthy. It has probably something to do with Dean being a killer but not evil like a demon such as Crowley. But more than that I think there needed to be a little brother that could be saved/hurt by something that the big brother thinks is the right thing to do but might actually be as bad as murder.

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  23. Ksana10 March 2014 at 19:05

    Oh my... Amount of hate Jensen will get for this interview . Brave guy to voice opinion like this. And Vegascon is commind. Fasten your seatbelts fandom.

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  24. percysowner10 March 2014 at 19:09

    When not ONE character gives any support to Sam's position (Cas telling Dean he just trusts and loves too much, Kevin telling them to just stop fighting putting the burden on Sam to tell Dean everything is forgiven and Dean can let him be possessed whenever he wants, with no one stating that having Sam possessed when he didn't want it, when we hear Dean telling the world HOW HARD IT IS FOR HIM, while Sam is still left without expressing his feelings. All this is the show giving ALL the WEIGHT to Dean being right. With the implication that Sam will be called a selfish asshole and that all Sam has is a "Sam centric view" with the implication that Dean see the true picture and cares about the world and is all wonderful and right, that IS the show saying Sam is the wrong, bad brother. The show REFUSED to look at Sam's POV with any depth or sympathy in seasons four and five. They had God or at least God's prophet telling Sam he was unsympathetic. They have Charlie saying DEAN stopped the Apocalypse while Sam only has bad luck with chicks, because Sam accepting torture to stop the Apocalypse and having every woman he loved die is validated as being not worthy of any attention. Heck having Charlie tell Dean that SHE will always remember the pie was the SHOW blaming Sam for getting kidnapped to Cold Oak where he watched the other psy kids die and then be killed himself, because the SHOW is stating that no matter how many horrible things happen to Sam, Dean not getting pie is the REAL travesty.

    It's not just the fans, the show has persistently refused to show Sam's state of mind in any way that allows Sam to be seen as sympathetic while giving Dean the total "feel sorry for me" edit. The utter, complete refusal to show why Sam decided that Dean was dead and then having Dean go on and on about how Sam betrayed him by not looking while giving Sam no counterpoint is the show making Sam look bad and wrong.

    The account of Jensen's interview does not leave me feeling that Sam is going to get a fair edit.

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  25. Aline10 March 2014 at 19:13

    I don't think it was a joke, San Summer. It might have initially been an off the cuff remark but he then went into detail, and gave a pretty long spiel about how 'selfish' Sam is, how 'preoccupied' with himself he always is and how disinterested Sam is in things that affect Dean etc. It was actually a running theme through much of the interview, that Dean will always sacrifice while Sam will always try and cash in.

    I hope you're right and it was a joke because if it's not then it's a damning indictment of both Dean and how he sees his brother.

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  26. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 19:14

    I know. Right.
    Couldn't believe it. Either he's stirring the fandom up or voicing his opinion.
    I've always wondered what the actors really think about the characters and storylines because in a lot of interviews and cons it seems like they are just towing the company line and not really saying what they really feel. Even so, it's pretty brave to put that out there like that.
    I would say that I hope fans don't blast him in Vegas but somehow I don't see fans holding back on him now. Wonder what Jared will think of it all. Surprised fans aren't tweeting him like crazy right now.

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  27. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 19:16

    I'm thinking it was an off the cuff joke that they've been bantering around on set.
    Fans don't remember but he's called Dean an a**hole as well on more than one occasion.

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  28. Ross10 March 2014 at 19:19

    What did he say that will piss people off?

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  29. Ksana10 March 2014 at 19:21

    Just read the comments below . You'll have an idea. And tumblr goes nuts. I am getting my popcorn ready thou. :)

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  30. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 19:25

    Right.
    I completely get why Jensen doesn't pay attention to social media now. ;- )
    Apparently we only want the actor's opinion if it doesn't actually have real opinions that differ from the masses in it.

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  31. San Summer10 March 2014 at 19:29

    Yeah the tone worries me, too. Like how he is saying that Sam thinks he has done enough while implying that Sam really hasn’t as in Sam’s character is lacking (walking away).

    I think it’s too much to put Sam through the scenario of being “wrong” again. That yet again he would have to do penance for not being good enough of a brother for Dean. All of season five Sam tried to earn Dean back and the most recent example is of course season 8.

    If even being possessed against his will and Dean’s mark of Cain arc is put on Sam then wow.

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  32. sdwhiskey10 March 2014 at 19:34

    Well Jared started it by calling Sam "a real jerk" during one of his live episode tweets. Jensen has called Dean an asshole and a d*ck before. At any rate, Jensen was speaking from Dean's POV about Sam - and JOKING.

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  33. percysowner10 March 2014 at 19:35

    If those things are put on Sam, I'm out. I have told myself that I will give Carver the full three years to see how this arc plays out, but if we get Sam is wrong for two of those years, and last year every character in the show was banging that drum, then I don't know if I can do the last season.

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  34. percysowner10 March 2014 at 19:36

    I'm not basing Jensen. I'm terrified that he is reporting the way the show is headed.

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  35. sdwhiskey10 March 2014 at 19:39

    Fantastic interview! Thank god someone from the show is on Dean's side because it sure doesn't seem like the show/writers are, throwing Dean under the bus right from the start this season. And then basically bashing Dean and making him feel worthless for everything he's ever done for Sam, and to save others.

    So it's great to hear that he/the writers are already incorporating effects of the Mark of Cain into Dean's reactions - this gives me hope that the writers are actually going to give some real attention to this storyline.

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  36. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 19:45

    Wow. Guess that show's differing opinions of people who view the exact same thing because my take on Kevin's 'get over it' speech was to both of them without any bias of one over the other. I THOUGHT he was telling both of them that. I also viewed Cas continuing council to Sam during "First Born" was that he completely understood where Sam was coming from and was very sympathetic. AND the only thing Chuck said made Sam appear unsympathetic was the drinking of demon blood. That's it. NOT that Sam was unsympathetic. Just that one action was.
    To me, it seems that all the side characters one the show are willing to have a heart to heart with Sam and help him through things but if Dean tries to say anything like that, he gets a suck-it-up, quit-whining comment. And, no one said that Dean sees the true picture of the world. In fact, he's screwed up more than once, just as Sam has.
    I have in fact thought for some time that it was a Sam-centric world because everything in the mytharcs was related to Sam from the very first season. Azazel picked Sam because of Mary's deal and he was the main player for five seasons, excluding season 3 which was Dean's deal mytharc. And who the heck blamed Sam for being taken to the Old West town? That is insane and definitely wasn't interpreted by me at any time. Season 6 was about Sam's soullessness and Season 7 was him dealing with Helllucinations. Season 8 was him dealing with the trials and Dean stopped blaming Sam for not looking after Garth told him to "let it go and quit being an idjit." in like the 8th episode of that season. So, yeah, I agree that the seasons have been mainly Sam-centric.
    I will agree with you that most the time we don't get Sam's POV but that has nothing to do with Dean, or Jensen. That is all on the writers, the actual storytellers.
    Bottom line, though, fans will see what they want to see, even though we all see the same things. We take what we want to take out of it.

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  37. Aline10 March 2014 at 19:47

    I don't think it's anything to do with wanting an actor to say a certain thing and more to do with the fact that he essentially spat on the character of Sam and dismissed all the good that he has done in one fell swoop.

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  38. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 19:54

    Jensen isn't saying that Sam hasn't done enough. He's saying that Sam thinks that he has and is ready to hang it up (as of the first ep of this season) which appears to be a betrayal to Dean and what they had agreed on at the end of the last season. Sam's decision to go with Death was like walking away from Dean again, as Dean sees it.
    I also hated the penance scene at the end of season 8 because I thought it was ludicrous that the whole time he was doing the trials was to make up for the demon blood in him, making him feel unclean, then suddenly, no, it's because he always let Dean down. WTH?
    I didn't hear anywhere in there that the MoC was Sam's fault or the possession. He didn't say that.. He said that the MoC is slowly building up in him and cutting off his emotions. The fact that he and Sam aren't talking right now also has him cutting off his emotions as Dean's natural defense to this type of situation. The MoC is simply aiding Dean in this endeavor and allowing him to be a more efficient killer, which the Mark implies.

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  39. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 19:56

    I think we are getting some character bleed and bad writing more than him dismissing all of that. Plus, Sam has already done the exact same thing to Dean in Canon at the end of "The Purge".

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  40. Aline10 March 2014 at 19:58

    When? Was it when Sam said that when it comes to rescuing Sam Dean thinks he's the saviour but in reality he does more harm than good? Um, that's true. Season 2, saving Sam led to the first seal being broken, how is that good? In season 9, wanting Sam to live led to the gates of hell being left open and Kevin dead, how is that good?

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  41. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 20:00

    Sorry for misinterpreting.
    I could very well be the way the show is headed since he's seen more material than we have but he's also seen it in parts and not the whole picture.
    I think if it is headed that way it will be more for the mytharc about MoC to show its effects more than they want Sam written that way. I know they will probably lose fans if they do go that route.

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  42. sdwhiskey10 March 2014 at 20:02

    **Re. Sam "he's not willing to put a life on the line like Dean'. Yes, he
    was. Last season, he was willing to put his own life on the line.**


    But that's exactly what Jensen is talking about - that Sam is no longer willing to keep the brothers/family together, but he is willing to "cash out", i.e. his desire to die in last season's finale and this season's premiere. But again, this is all from DEAN'S point of view.

    RE: Sam's speech in The Purge: "You think you're my savior, my brother, the hero. You swoop in, and even
    when you mess up, you think what you're doing is worth it because
    you've convinced yourself you're doing more good than bad... But you're
    not"

    Again, from Dean's point of view as he said to Sam what's important is --"you and me, fighting the good fight". And that would not happen without Sam. So, to Dean, saving Sam is worth it because they are a TEAM, fighting the good fight, and doing good. So to have Sam tell him that no, their brotherhood/team does NOT accomplish more good than bad. And Sam basically told Dean that he was wrong to feel this way.

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  43. sdwhiskey10 March 2014 at 20:10

    Because from Dean's POV, being the team of "Sam and Dean" has done more good for people than harm. So Dean saving Sam has resulted in a lot of bad things being killed and a lot of people being saved - because, unlike Sam apparently, Dean sees them as a team. The good they have done is because they are a team.

    As for leaving the gates of hell open - it is actually a good thing they did, otherwise, all the evil souls would be trapped in the veil with the good souls who have died since the angels fell. It's not only about the bad souls getting out, you have to also consider that the doors have to be open to taking the bad souls in.

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  44. Aline10 March 2014 at 20:11

    The unfortunate thing is, with these type of comments, I think a huge amount of damage is being done to Sam, because people put an awful lot of weight in what Jensen Ackles says so if he says Sam is a selfish asshole, then a selfish asshole is what Sam is. If he pays no heed to the huge sacrifices Sam has made in the past, and many of them for Dean, then they are irrelevant, or they're not enough.


    And unfortunately, with this interview, it seems the stage is being set so that that the effects of the Mark of Cain on Dean will be put on Sam because Sam didn't instantly forgive and forget what Dean did.

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  45. percysowner10 March 2014 at 20:13

    Yep. I think that is where they may be going.

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  46. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 20:15

    Wow. Okay, you're fine with completely bashing Dean, just not Sam. Never mind that they both have their strengths and weaknesses, pluses and minuses. But Sam's the only one who's actually done more good than harm. Got it.
    Season 2, saving Sam did not led to the first seal being broken. It was Dean breaking in Hell that did it. Considering John didn't break, that was Dean himself, not the sole fact that he saved Sam. And Kevin being murdered . . . Kevin was dead no matter what because Metatron had a hit out on him. It helped to have an inside man but would Kevin still have died. Yes. Even if Dean hadn't sold his soul for Sam or tricked Sam into possession, these things would have happened because it was what the writers wanted to happen, what the demons and angels wanted to happen and it would have happened because at the end of the day both Sam and Dean are only human, fighting in a supernatural battle against good and evil.
    But, if you want to believe that Dean does more harm than good, I, and no one else, will convince you otherwise. Just remember at the end of the day, without Sam, no Supernatural, no show which apparently is what some fans would rather have because Dean does more harm than good whenever he saves Sam.

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  47. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 20:21

    Not to mention, since closing the gates of Heaven expelled all the angels, would closing the gates of Hell expelled all the demons? That would have been really, really, bad. Of course we don't know for sure what the consequences would be so we honestly don't know whether that was a good or bad thing.

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  48. Cathy10 March 2014 at 20:21

    The open acknowledgement of the show being more Sam-centric actually explains a lot, and lessens my annoyance with Sam as a character. The consequences of Sam's agency being impinged has been given so much narrative weight this season, while the consequences of Dean's agency being compromised has always being ignored. When Sam gets Dean to promise to go to Lisa pretty much on his deathbed, isn't that coercive? When they didn't tell Dean Sam was back from the dead, wasn't that removing his agency by misrepresenting information? This all makes sense when you think about the show as being Sam-centric, so stuff done to him matters more in the story.



    Great interview. I'm glad Jensen is not one of those actors who only spout boring PR stuff, and insincerely praises everything even if it's crap.

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  49. Ksana10 March 2014 at 20:26

    What's wrong with actor taking his characters side? Majority of us did take sides, it obvious just from reading the comments. At least he is unusually frank for a change

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  50. Nick10 March 2014 at 20:26

    This then ties in with what Sam was saying, hunters or brothers. At the moment they're neither. They can't be hunters because their first focus is each other, not the people they're trying to save. Then hunting together does good, yes it does. However it's the type of good they'd do with any other partner. The bad that comes as a result of them hunting together only comes 'because' they are brothers who hunt together. Dean wouldn't make a deal for Bobby or John or Garth etc. He wouldn't try and bust Adam out of the Cage, and the world is a safer place for it. I mean, what will happen the next time Sam is in danger, will Dean throw an innocent between him and the monster? Or will he expect Sam to do the same. What happens if it's a choice between Sam and putting the angels back in heaven etc, as a hunter should he chose Sam? Or if it's the other way around, will he expect Sam to chose him, even if it causes death to many others? These are the questions the show hasn't even come close to touching, and I doubt if they will.


    In relation to being brothers, they can't be brothers (and I mean that in terms of a brotherhood. Obviously they are still genetically brothers) while they intentionally do things they know the other would not want, when they can't respect the wishes of the other (or if they do respect those wishes they're wrong to do so) and unfortunately, being brothers that hunt together puts them in those type of situations very, very often.


    In relation to 'cashing out', I took that to mean not just Sam accepting death, but also his desire to get out of hunting.

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  51. Nick10 March 2014 at 20:28

    Where did I bash Dean?

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  52. San Summer10 March 2014 at 20:31

    But he is contrasting Sam with Dean by saying they are at the opposite endings of the spectrum and his wording is quite revealing. Sam is “walking away” while Dean is thinking that "as long as they are together there is always a choice to be made" and bad things happen when they “give up” that choice.

    I just find it a bit outrageous that even when the season has Sam being possessed although he would never want anyone to make that choice for him and Dean taking on a mark from the father of murder / Lucifer, it would still come out as “It’s a Sam-centric world in his mind”. That even when the choices were on Dean, it would still be twisted as Sam being selfish and Dean driven to doing things because Sam is not the brother he should be. I think Sam as a character already has a lot of baggage and there is no need to prop Dean up by having Sam take on his mistakes, too.

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  53. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 20:32

    Even if they do, I'm not buying that. Dean did what he did of his own freewill, as a result of his own belief that he is poison which is NOT something that Sam said to him. I don't expect Sam to ever forget what Dean did. Forgiveness is something totally different and I really expect Dean not being able to forgive Dean is a bigger problem than Sam not doing it.
    The only effect Sam can have is to maybe keep Dean's humanity a little bit longer but I really don't see it keeping Dean from the contract he willingly entered without asking about the fine print.
    You don't have to buy what they are selling.

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  54. Nick10 March 2014 at 20:34

    And can I point out, there was no bashing of Dean, just pointing things out.


    Saving Sam led to Dean going to hell which led to the first seal being broken. If he didn't save Sam, no first seal broken.


    Were it not Gadreel coming to Metatrons attention, possibly because he already knew the Winchesters, Kevin might not have died. Or he would not have died when and where he did. This whole idea that things would have happened a certain way anyway is irrelevant, and kinda comes across as passing the buck. The final seal was going to be broken anyway, but there has been no acknowledgement to that on the show,


    Hypothetical situation, if, in the event that Dean did manage to bust Sam out of the Cage and released Lucifer and Michael with him, would this have been doing more harm than good?

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  55. San Summer10 March 2014 at 20:36

    Unfortunately, you are probably right. Even before this Sam was called a brat, whiney, selfish, self-righteous etc.

    I think the whole thing about taking an actor’s words as gospel and then condemning Sam happened already with Death in 9.01.

    Mark my words, Jensen’s statements will be brought up many times when someone wants to portray Sam as not deserving of his big brother (even when it most likely wasn’t Jensen’s intended message).

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  56. Aline10 March 2014 at 20:37

    People don't have to buy it, but there's certainly one hell of an advertising campaign going on out there! It will be hard to not be swayed by that, especially if there's no other option given.

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  57. MythAl10 March 2014 at 20:38

    Very well said!!! It's like for some people Jensen is the voice of reason and everything he says is true by default. It's just his opinions from a Dean's POV. That's why we need Jared's too to get a hole view of things, but for a lot of fans it is not needed. Jensen view is enough.

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  58. Cathy10 March 2014 at 20:38

    That is a completely egocentric way of thinking. Apparently the world revolves around Sam, and there would no longer be evil in the world just because Sam is dead?


    By the way, leaving the gates of hell open was apparently good - since it very likely would have kept evil souls from going to hell. Also, having Gadreel in Sam has kept Sam and Cas and Charlie alive. There is something called "unforeseeable consequences", and you can't judge someone's actions in hindsight based on that. In that case, why not just blame Mary and John for deciding to have Sam in the first place?

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  59. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 20:42

    I understood the "Sam-centric world in his mind" to being previous eps. and if the writers were honest, Dean made Sam that way by the way he always tried to protect Sam and give Sam as much of a normal life as he could. I don't see them saying the possession and MoC is on Sam. Only possible is that Sam is too deep in his resolve to notice what the MoC is doing to his brother. But the possession, even Jensen says that Dean would maybe rethink that with the knowledge he has now. I think we are reading too much into some of this interview.

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  60. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 20:44

    I agree that I don't think all this was Jensen's intended message.

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  61. Aline10 March 2014 at 20:45

    There will always be evil in the world. However, Sam and Dean are doing things for each other that inadvertently (and we can't really say that any kore because they know there will be consequences) causes bigger evil. It's notable that in the years that Sam and Dean didn't hunt there was no 'big' evil, no Apocalypse, no Mark of Cain etc etc.

    In relation to Gadreel being in Sam being a good thing because of Charlie and Castiel, do you think that Sam should be grateful for what Dean did? Take aside the fact that if you change one thing (Gadreel being in Sam) you will inadvertently change a lot of things so hypothetically Charlie and Castiel might not even have died. I also find it to be rather a disturbing thought process, that violation having 'good' consequences it's considered okay. If a person falls pregnant as a result of rape and she keeps and loves the child, can the rape be considered a good thing?

    And if you're talking about 'unforeseeable consequences' why are the Winchesters doing anything at all? Why are they out to kill Abbadon or Gadreel, that might be a bad thing?

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  62. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 20:47

    On twitter there is an prompt to send Jared your questions since he's at SXSW. Wonder if anyone will send in tweets about this. I think they should give Jared his time too.

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  63. Aline10 March 2014 at 20:50

    No one was bashing Dean, I'm merely pointing out things. You're the one who brought up Sam in the Purge. (Were you just 'completely bashing' Sam then?). Am I supposed to forget about the consequences of certain actions? That's the basis of much of the problem between Sam and Dean, the consequences of the actions they do for each other. (And I did say 'they' in earlier posts which means more than one person, so I did in fact acknowledge Sam and his actions.)

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  64. MythAl10 March 2014 at 20:52

    Sam can't win no matter what.
    If he wants to go to Stanford = selfish.
    If he wants to kill Lilith to save the world = he should not dismiss Dean feelings (always right), even if his brother wants to kill the same demon.
    If he tries to atone for his sins = you take Dean's anger for almost season 5 and shut up. You're only good when you do something for your brother, like convincing him to say no to Michael.
    If he tries to move on with his life because he thought Dean was dead = He is selfish again and get a lot of cold treatment, because even if Sam was being tortured by Lucifer, he is still not good enough. Apparently a vampire is better.
    If he is tricked into possession = how could you not understand the agressor's POV? Of course the victim should be blamed and it's gonna be his fault if Dean lost his humanity, even if he had nothing to do with the fact that Dean ALONE chose to take the mark. Oh but at least let's make Dean stronger and a badass so he can win some Deanpoints with the audience (poor Dean). It's what matters. How could Sam not accept the amazing good Dean will do with the MoC, even if that is not doing any good to the elder Winchester? What a selfish brat!!!!

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  65. Aline10 March 2014 at 20:53

    It's unfortunate, it's like the 'Was Death really there?' thing. Julian Richings said no because Death wasn't eating in it. However, Death hasn't been eating in about half the scenes he was in and he's always been there. However, his words are taken as law and now, for many, that Sam's reaper was Death himself is taken to show that Sam has a huge ego, how self involved he is etc etc.

    There's no winning really!

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  66. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 20:54

    Wait what's wrong with s6 Dean? If anything, s6 Sam and Cas were a gazillion times worse.

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  67. Cathy10 March 2014 at 20:58

    My point is that "unforeseeable consequences" are by definition unforeseeable. You can only make the best decisions you can based on the information you have at the time, which is what Dean has done. You can judge him for the action itself - but judging based on the consequences that came after, which did not factor into his initial decision, is unfair. That is the point of my example - the subsequent consequences are that Kevin died, but Sam/Cas/Charlie lived - and none of these things should factor into the judgement of his initial action.


    My stance on the Gadreel possession is that it depends on Sam's mental state at the time. Informed consent is based on mental capacity. At the time, Sam was expressing a desire to die. When people are in a suicidal state of mind, in real life, often someone else is assigned to make decisions on their behalf to make sure that decisions made reflects their best interest. Even if Dean was tried in a court of law, this would be taken into account.

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  68. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 21:10

    Most of season 6 was messed up. Only one really in character was Crowley.

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  69. percysowner10 March 2014 at 21:10

    Well Dean didn't stop the closing of the GOH for that reason, so he doesn't get credit for it.

    Sam is NOT AN OBJECT. It is simply morally offensive to say that he should lose control over his body because some good came of it. However since that is your argument, Charlie only came to the bunker because SAM thought of her to fix the computer. If Sam had died, Charlie would not have been in danger. Cas is iffy since we can not know how things would have changed if Sam had died. But taking it at face value that Cas would have been dead, then things are even. But Gadreel also killed rock star angel and Abner his best friend in Sam's body. So there is more on the table than people who have appeared in the show before.

    As to Mary and John not having Sam, Sam was 1000% behind that. Then Michael wiped their memories and they had no reason to not have a second child. I can't blame them for being drugged into having Sam.

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  70. Cathy10 March 2014 at 21:13

    They are playing a high stake game and they make big decisions. If they had decided during the apocalypse that whatever they do will fail, the world would have ended. It's more a matter of you win some and you lose some. Dean decides to accept the consequences and keep fighting. Sam wants to take himself out of the action completely. Both sides can be argued, and you can hardly say that Sam is clearly in the right.


    It's hard to say whether Sam was accepting death or if he was suicidal. He had JUST been talked off the ledge in the Season 8 finale at the church, and agreed that he wanted to live. He was clearly not in a good mental place. Then in his head, what Dean saw was that he wanted to die again. It was hardly a clear cut DNR, and in that situation, I would think that most people would err on the side of caution. Also, I'm fairly sure your intentions ARE considered in a court of law. That's why there is a difference between manslaughter and first degree murder.

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  71. sharonally10 March 2014 at 21:16

    I like Jensen alot but that does not mean I have to like everything he says. Joking maybe but alot listen to him and I am sorry that he said it Sam is already taken alot of unfair nonsense over this sl whether intended or not Jensen has added to it .

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  72. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 21:18

    All I'm saying is that the more harm than good point could be made for both characters. To pit one against the other as far as worthiness is a no win situation because they have both done good and bad. The reason I called it bashing, (sorry for the overextrapolation) is because to be outraged for it to be said about one character and not the other is setting the one up for "bashing' and it is inaccurate since mostly they both do more good than harm as a team which what I thought the show was about. The brothers as a team.

    But then opinions apparently vary. I can see some points to yours but know if Dean hadn't saved Sam in those instances, he would have been guilty of that. Either way was a no win situation for him and he set up to be blamed regardless of what he did. For the record, I was very much in favor of him letting Sam die because of exactly this type of fall out but no Sam = no Supernatural so Dean does something drastic that gets him crucified for all season. So, again, opinions vary and we have to agree to disagree.

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  73. sharonally10 March 2014 at 21:21

    Where was the bashing ? I can like the actor but not support everything he says surely .

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  74. Aline10 March 2014 at 21:23

    Manslaughter and first degree murder are still both crimes, that's why there are sentences for both.


    In relation to Sam being suicidal, he didn't jump into Death's arms and plead him to take him. He rationally discussed conditions so that no harm would come to others. They are not the actions of a suicidal man.


    Sam doesn't want to take himself out of the action completely, he wants to do things that mean there will no longer be any big action ie consequences to their actions (and those consequences are rarely, if ever, small.) There will always be evil but there's a difference between trying to take down a werewolf and trying to take down Lucifer.

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  75. San Summer10 March 2014 at 21:26

    I
    didn’t think that Dean really had a story. It was just waiting for him to clue
    in on that there is something wrong with Sam, then waiting for him to figure
    out Sam doesn’t have soul, then waiting for him to get the soul back. Other
    than that, he had nothing except domestic stuff and I couldn’t care less about
    Lisa and Ben.

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  76. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 21:27

    You're right. My bad.

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  77. Aline10 March 2014 at 21:30

    Except Sam didn't banish the good that Dean did. In season 8 he was lauding Dean and his actions. What he said related specifically to one thing ie the actions Dean took in relation to Sam.


    As was said about, the 'good' they do they can do with anyone, the 'bad' they do they only do for each other. This, for me, is the issue of the season. I've found myself asking 'Why on earth are they still hunting?' I don't understand how Dean wants Sam to hunt but doesn't want him getting killed (obviously) but Sam hunting will inevitably lead to him getting killed so why does Dean want him hunting? It's illogical at this stage and it's the brothers v hunters thing all over again.


    And it's the same old question, what will happen the next time one of them dies or is on death's door? Is a deal expected from them at this stage, regardless of the consequences? And if they do make a deal, and there are bigger consequences than just one person being killed (sorry Kevin, but in the grand scheme of things you're just one person) then can we still say that they are good for each other etc?

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  78. percysowner10 March 2014 at 21:33

    If Sam had been suicidal he would not have said yes to Deandreel. Sam was arguing fighting vs accepting that his body was dying. He told Bobby he wanted to live. Sam's organs were destroyed, his body was dying and NO amount of happy thoughts were going to bring him back. Sam said yes to life at the church. He told Bobby he wanted to live. He said yes to life when he accepted Deandriel. Sam did NOT act suicidal. However state of mind is important. The brother you trust with your life says hey take this non-alcholic drink, that is laced with roofies. You wake up and start showing symptoms of pregnancy and your brother says "the flu is going around" then you finally find out you had sex under the influence of the roofies and your brother says, but I wanted you to have a baby and the next time I want you to have a baby, I'll do the same thing. Sam did NOT consent to being possessed. THAT is the state of mind that should be considered.

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  79. Cathy10 March 2014 at 21:36

    There are sentences for both, but intention factors into the severity of the sentence.


    In the church in the S8 finale, Sam had expressed feelings of inadequacy, that he had let Dean down, and felt he needed to use his death to redeem his failures. This does not sound like a healthy mindset to me, and this was the last conversation they had with each other. Sam decided he wanted to live, but the next time Dean gets an idea of what Sam wants, he sees Sam negotiating his death in his head and wanting to die again. Peoples who experience depression and suicidal ideation can relapse - how would Dean know if this was a true representation of what Sam wanted? If a doctor violated the DNR of a patient, who had just expressed several conflicting things on the subject, I doubt they would be condemned.


    If Sam dies, I'm pretty sure that means he is taken out of the action completely. Also, if there is noone else to take down Lucifer but them, should they just get drunk and wait for the world to end? I can understand his FEELING that his being around makes things worse, but I do not accept this as a premise in the show, that this is actually a fact.

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  80. Aline10 March 2014 at 21:38

    And in a high stake game you have to be prepared to lose big. Dean isn't prepared to lose big (ie Sam) in order to win.

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  81. San Summer10 March 2014 at 21:40

    I think they might put Dean’s mark of Cain downwards spiral partly on Sam. The whole notion of Sam “disowning” his brother.

    The possession thing is already sort of put on Sam because Sam “gave up" (on his brother) when he thought it was best to go with Death when he was in a coma and dying.

    A lot of fans hold Fallen Idols against Sam because he said that one of the reasons he went off with Ruby was Dean. Well, I hope those same fans won’t think that train of thought is suddenly okay just because it’ll be Dean feeling something very similar.

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  82. Aline10 March 2014 at 21:41

    Actually, if Sam died and the show was renewed for another season or whatnot then Sam would be brought back one way or another.


    It has little to do with his feeling that his being around makes things worse and more to do with what Sam and Dean are willing to do in order to keep each other around. What is more to them, stopping evil or being together?

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  83. San Summer10 March 2014 at 21:46

    It's not just the fans, the show has persistently refused to show Sam's state of mind in any way that allows Sam to be seen as sympathetic while giving Dean the total "feel sorry for me" edit. The utter, complete refusal to show why Sam decided that Dean was dead and then having Dean go on and on about how Sam betrayed him by not looking while giving Sam no counterpoint is the show making Sam look bad and wrong.

    The account of Jensen's interview does not leave me feeling that Sam is going to get a fair edit.

    Yep the edit has already been going on pretty heavy-handedly when for example three episodes in a row (Sharp Teeth, The Purge, Captives) ended with a close-up of Dean’s face (showing some variation of hurt) after Sam laid down the law.

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  84. Cathy10 March 2014 at 21:46

    As I said below, this all happened in his head where Dean did not see. Dean had a glimpse of Sam negotiating the terms of his death. The last actual conversation they had with each other, Sam had JUST been talked off the ledge in the church. The idea of consent is contingent on mental capacity, and this is what I am saying is not clear in the show - at the very least in Dean's eyes.


    We have been using the example of violating a DNR in this discussion, which is still a violation, but more comparable than the example you gave. The result in this case is Sam's life being saved. In the example you gave, there is a malicious intent to hurt, which is hard to see as being equivalent.

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  85. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 21:52

    I'll admit that I hold Sam giving up in the coma irritated me but I've come to expect that with the way Sam is written. The possession wasn't on him and Dean isn't putting that on him either. Dean owns up to that and Jensen said that's one thing he'd probably change now if he could.
    I know that the brothers' current situation is helping the MoC take hold and could see it being 'partly' on Sam but only that much. Also, Fallen Idols is one of the eps. that I never rewatch because I hated that much to begin with. I could see Sam's POV in that ep even though I didn't buy it as much as they were selling it.

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  86. Cathy10 March 2014 at 21:56

    Well, the whole point of Dean letting Gadreel possess Sam was this season's "one way or another" of bringing Sam back. Was it a good move plotwise? I don't really think so - it raises bigger ethical questions than the show is able to adequately address. But there it is.


    As to stopping evil or being together - I would assume both. I don't buy the argument that Dean can't be alone - since he didn't exactly have company when he went to hell. From Sam's POV, I can understand that he thinks their trying to keep each other alive is doing harm (this is what you are saying, correct?). That is a separate issue from Dean's POV, and why he made the decision he did - because he doesn't KNOW that this is why Sam wants what he wants. The idea of a DNR is that you have to know it exists. In this case, I don't think it was clear that there is one.

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  87. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 22:05

    You know if he did that, then the Sam fans would be upset with him for not saving him. Actually, I have a feeling we are coming to that set up soon and the MoC will probably give everyone what they want.

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  88. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 22:08

    I agree. Dean had no plot besides Ben and Lisa and we all knew that wasn't going to work. It was just a lot of Dean going through trauma, secrets, and lies.


    And for the most part I agree with Jensen on everything he said, except calling Dean a whiny bitch in s6, like I can see why he might feel that way, but when you find out your brother was back from hell all this time, everyone you trusted lied to you about it, proceeding to then find out your bro's soul is still in hell and seeing his face tell you "I don't even really care about you"....then the whole Cas lying thing. Let's just say I think Dean can be excused for being whiny/emotionally vulnerable given the circumstance he was put under.

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  89. Aline10 March 2014 at 22:08

    So, the next time, what should happen? Hypothetical situation, Sam dies on a hunt, what does Dean do? He's said that he'll do the same thing again. If he does as he says, will that make it more or less or a 'crime'?



    Dean knew what Sam didn't want, he knew he would never consent to being possessed. He said that, so should he do the same thenext time, if the ends justify the means for him? If this is what constitutes being a good brother, should Sam do the same? Which is the more important to be a good man or to be a good brother?


    And yes, the issues re consent (and more) are too big and too complex for a show such as SPN to deal with. I'm fully expecting it to be swept under the carpet in favour of something newer and shinier. This is what is so infuriating, It just means that what drove a character to that point will still be there, ready to be hauled out for the next round when the occasion demands.

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  90. Aline10 March 2014 at 22:12

    Some might, but I dare say many more wouldn't. I certainly wouldn't. Very few fans were upset when Dean okayed Sam jumping in the Cage.

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  91. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 22:13

    I think its more of the idea that Dean doesn't give into the idea of fate as easily, and if he can change it, by all means he will. Whereas Sam is one to really only put his foot in if it concerns him. Neither philosophy is bad or good. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
    I also believe that the way Sam is handling their relationship is easily seen as being a 'selfish asshole'. But I also believe he has good intentions. He wants to sever the brother-bond because he feels this will help Dean to think logically about things, and make decisions that are less emotionally involved. However, its backfiring, and pushing him away is having the opposite effect. (not to say it's Sam's fault, just that his intentions are not yielding the intended outcome)

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  92. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 22:14

    I hope you're right.

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  93. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 22:19

    I agree that Sam has good intentions and they are backfiring but he's not changing them either. Probably because he doesn't know how else to get his point across.

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  94. San Summer10 March 2014 at 22:20

    Yeah for sure Sam will have a part in Dean’s darkness and I don’t mind that. I just don’t want it to be twisted into something where Sam is suddenly the bad guy and Dean is the long-suffering brother.

    (Fallen Idols doesn’t work for me either.)



    A lot of people thought Sam was blaming Dean for the demon blood even though Sam clarified it was his fault. However, I could see those same people put Dean’s descend on Sam.

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  95. Aline10 March 2014 at 22:21

    In relation to changing fate, that's very subjective, and Exile on Main Street (is that the one where Dean wore Deaths ring?) showed us what happens when you try to change it. if Sam or Dean is fated to be a hunter (whether because of their history, their heritage etc) then deciding to not hunt is changing their fate.



    I also don't think Sam wants to sever the brother bond. He's not silly enough to try and deny their history and blood etc. However, if they are to be brothers who hunt, there will need to be conditions, lines that can't be crossed. That idea was brought up last year in relation to the agreement that they made.

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  96. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 22:22

    Dean's not really complaining about how hard things are for him, and nobody is telling Sam to just forgive him. Kevin was basically saying that they need to act like adults and talk it out seriously rather than just give eachother the cold shoulder. The show doesn't really make what Dean did look justifiable; but if you think you you may want to dig a little deeper.
    We see Dean as being self-justified, and we see Sam calling him out for what he does wrong. Then, as Jensen kind of said, we do kind of see things through Dean's POV, generally, so we get this bias view of Sam a bit- but it's just Dean's feelings. If anything, Sam being possessed has done more bad than good, so I doubt it was intended to make Dean look as if he made the right choice and Sam should be ever grateful.


    Furthermore, with the whole Sam not looking for Dean while he was in Purgatory thing- Sam didn't even try to do anything. Before when Dean was in hell, we see Sam trying to make deals with demons/find out things/TRYING SOMETHING, ANYTHING. When Dean was in Purgatory, Sam tried absolutely nothing. And its one thing to KNOW they are dead, but he didn't. Thus, it does kind of make Sam look bad for not even asking or consulting another hunter. A little effort would have made him look sympathetic.

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  97. Aline10 March 2014 at 22:24

    Communication is a two way street. In order to get a point across, the person you're trying to communicate the message to has to be receptive to listening. Can you honestly say that Dean is receptive to what Sam is saying?

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  98. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 22:25

    Well, the thing is people will see what they want to see. That's how we all can watch an ep but see how our favorites are either knocked down or giving the credit we think they deserve. We will probably never all agree on any single ep. which is why we can never please everyone.

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  99. San Summer10 March 2014 at 22:25

    Yeah, I also didn’t see him as whiny. I was just disappointed in how they handled the character and his story overall. I didn’t really see soulless Sam as being like Dean either even though I remember that was how Dean felt in episode You Can't Handle the Truth.

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  100. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 22:27

    It's how you take it, though.
    I don't really see Sam painted as the bad guy, but rather, just another example of how their lack of communication skills is distancing the brothers, by extension pushing Dean down a dark road. Though this isn't to say either one is to be blamed for their shit communication skills; their relationship is just really immature and always pushes one of the brothers to something negative (Dean in this case, though it has been Dean pushing Sam away before)

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  101. Cathy10 March 2014 at 22:28

    For the next time, they need to have a conversation where they actually HAVE a DNR set in place. If Dean refuses to agree to this, or he violates it again when he CLEARLY knows the DNR is in place - then I would agree that he is completely in the wrong.


    I agree that the actual decision Dean made was not representative of what he thought Sam would choose, but was something he believed would be better for him. If you've ever watched House, there is an episode where he had to undergo a surgery that would cripple him in order to save his life - but he would not agree. He was then put into a medically induced coma to manage the pain, and his wife became his proxy decision maker, and she decided on his behalf to go through with the surgery to save his life. This eventually ended their relationship - and I don't blame him, just like I don't blame Sam for being angry about it and feeling that it undid the trust between them. At the same time, I find it hard to condemn her actual actions as wrong (and they were not on that particular show). I feel like this issue is what the show was actually going for - that as Sam's proxy decision-maker, Sam can't trust Dean to make decisions based on what Sam wants instead of what Dean wants. If this was the only issue, both brothers could actually come out still sympathetic - but they accidentally threw the consent issues into the mix.

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  102. Peter J410 March 2014 at 22:31

    throwing Dean under the bus right from the start this season. And then basically bashing Dean and making him feel worthless for everything he's ever done for Sam, and to save others.


    I'd say the show went out of its way this season to have viewers sympathize with Dean. Everyone - everyone - Dean has spoken to about this has sympathized with him and refused to judge him, aside from Sam. The show has generally written far more sympathy and POV for Dean this season than they have for Sam.

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  103. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 22:31

    I can say that Dean's given Sam at least two openings on screen so far that he hasn't taken advantage of but that just means that Dean's willing to talk. The most recent one was where Dean admitted flat out he has no idea what Sam wants from him. Sam just sighed then gave him a look that clearly showed he wasn't going to talk about it. Dean even waited a moment, giving him time, before continuing on with the original conversation.
    I don't think either one is particularly receptive to what the other is saying which is why they are at an impasse. But both should be able to see that what they are doing isn't working.

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  104. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 22:34

    From four years old Dean's job was to take care of Sam. So ever since then, his thinking process generally includes Sam in some way, but it doesn't run both ways. Sam doesn't always include Dean in every aspect of his thinking (which is what normal people who haven't experienced years of parentification do). I think Jensen meant the "figure it out by himself" kind of thing because Sam regards Dean as being pretty independent. He knows how to get the job done, while even if Sam knows how to get the job done, Dean has to worry about what might go wrong thus ALWAYS has to help Sammy when Sammy is having trouble, because that's what he has been expected to do since he was a kid.

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  105. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 22:36

    Also, forgot to add, but at the end of s8 Sam basically admitted how he feels he has let down Dean repeatedly, so he might feel it is best if he doesn't interfere with Dean's own problems for fear he could further screw it up.

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  106. Theresa Lewis10 March 2014 at 22:40

    I really have to disagree just based on all the agonizing Dean has done over the entire season. It clearly shows that Dean knows he was in the wrong and continued to be in the wrong as he continually lied about it. To me that is not sympathizing with Dean. It was pointing out that the whole thing was wrong and everyone knew it. The fact that they could understand how and why Dean made the decision did not make it suddenly right or okay, just understandable. To me, that is two totally different things.

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  107. Aline10 March 2014 at 22:43

    Sam has also given Dean the opportunity. At the start of The Purge (I think) he asked if this was about what he said last night. Dean denied it and walked away. The last episode, they were just sitting there, and Dean rang Crowley. If Dean doesn't know what Sam wants from him there's nothing to stop him from asking. Sam has told Dean what the issue is, Dean said he'd do the same thing again. Sam said, under the same circumstances, he wouldn't do as Dean did. This is why they're at an impasse.

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  108. Peter J410 March 2014 at 22:43

    I don't think Dean knows he was in the wrong. I think that's what the writing has been saying. It's not as easy as Dean just being selfish or cruel. He was trained to be what he is today. We saw that in Bad Boys. We see it again with his refusal to admit he was wrong to keep Sam alive.


    They took a horrible decision and wrote it from the perspective of Dean doing what he'd spent his entire childhood being indoctrinated into doing. I don't see that as bashing Dean or throwing him under the bus. The worst they've had was that harsh speech from Sam at the end of The Purge.

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  109. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 22:44

    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    The Mark of Cain is NOT being put on Sam.
    Here's what's going down:
    Dean made a bad choice at the start of the series.
    Sam called him out for it.
    Dean is too self-justifiable.
    Instead of talking out their problems like adults, the two brothers give eachother the cold shoulder and ignore the issue.
    The ignoring of issue, the emotional distance between the brothers, is what is pushing Dean toward his descent.


    Now who's fault is it? Not Sam's. Not Dean's. But the COMBINED reactions of the two brothers and the circumstances they face afterwards. Such an arc is like a tragedy in some way. It's not one person's fault, it just so happens that shit happened, and then as a result more bad things will happen.
    You also have to take into account that Sam does not really know much of MoC nor that there were burdens to bear, so he doesn't see any severity in it- thus cannot be held accountable.

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  110. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 22:46

    It's like this: you and a friend get into a big argument. That friend is upset with you and not thinking clearly and makes a poor choice that ends up screwing them up in some way. Is it your fault? No. You can't be held responsible for their emotions and their decision making process, nor could you know that they would choose something harmful to themselves as result of your fight

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  111. percysowner10 March 2014 at 22:48

    And Sam has given Dean at least three. When he first found out he tried to talk about how he felt and Dean walked away. In Sharp Teeth Dean lied to Sam to get out of the picture, but Sam stayed. After it he told Dean he wanted them to hunt together and left the brotherly part up in the air, Dean was not interested in clarifying. In The Purge Sam went into his feelings more and Dean came up with I'm not sorry, I'd do it again, so would you and when Sam said no he wouldn't Dean wouldn't listen any more. When Kevin told them to cut it out (without mentioning Dean doing anything to apologize, understand Sam's feelings, nothing which is why I say it was solely and completely putting the weight on Sam) Dean turned to say something and Sam was walking away. Even though Sam had approached him three times Dean was not going to lower himself to make any move to reach Sam. The conversation I think you are referring to was in this last episode. Dean is heading out on a hunt. Sam asks and wants to know why Dean didn't tell him about it. THAT is when Dean goes into his I don't know what you want spiel. The thing is Sam has been 100% CRYSTAL clear that YES he does want to hunt and work with Dean. So Dean was completely ignoring what Sam has TOLD HIM HE WANTS. Sam shook his head because Dean won't even listen to or remember what Sam has laid out clearly. Dean is trying to punish Sam by pretending that Sam has told him NOTHING instead of acting within the very clear boundaries that Sam has set.

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  112. percysowner10 March 2014 at 23:09

    Well since everyone is telling Dean that he is not wrong, I disagree. Cas told Dean he was "just to trusting" as if possessing Sam against his will would have been fine if it had just been Zeke. Kevin is forgiving, which is good and fine for him because he doesn't need anything to push him into being an angry spirit, but it still lets Dean totally off the hook. Garth has always been a Dean cheerleader. The Harry Ed situation is the first time that any outside look at the dynamics has given even the slightest consideration of Sam and his feelings and that was done in such a way that people say well DEAN was in such a different position. Even Crowley had to fluff Dean's damaged ego by telling him how WORTHY he is. Sam doesn't even get to express what he feels. The entire emotional thrust of this is how since Dean raised Sam he had no choice. And how hurt Dean is that Sam doesn't appreciate him. While Sam gets nothing from anyone.

    But hey, the show has already stated outright that Dean and Dean alone stopped the Apocalypse, when Charlie thanked only him; that Sam and Sam alone started the Apocalypse when Tracy said it and Dean just said yes, but everyone makes mistakes (first seal, what first seal, nope Sam did it all by himself). And of course Charlie and Dean have told the audience that Jess dying and Madison having to be killed and Sarah being murdered are just a laugh a minute, all for the enjoyment of people everywhere because it is HILARIOUS that Sam has bad luck with the chicks. Sam' s emotions have been ignored, and denigrated and made fun of and he has been told to get over having Dean treat him like a pose-able doll that Dean gets to control.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 23:16

    The only character sympathizing with Dean is Crowley. The entire Cas/Sam part of First Born was Cas sympathizing with Sam.

    ReplyDelete
  114. lala210 March 2014 at 23:23

    Well, I always said those speeches were crap and poorly written, but folks just shouted me down, downvoted me endlessly, and accused me of hating Sam. Sam should be getting the sympathy but he was written like a jerk. I don't think the writers care how Sam looks.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Peter J410 March 2014 at 23:24

    I think the writers care, they just don't do all that great a job at writing for Sam. He has no real POV.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Peter J410 March 2014 at 23:25

    I thought they just took away everything of Dean - his heart, his purpose, his relationships. I hated it.

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  117. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 23:25

    Sam needs to give an explanation that is longer and would take more time. I'd be if the two sat down and had an open, genuine, honest, and empathetic discussion about each one of their POVs, they could come to a settlement.
    This is what responsible adults with healthy relationships do, but this relationship isn't healthy, thus we have a closed street of communication.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Peter J410 March 2014 at 23:28

    Cas can sympathize with more than one brother. He did his best to keep Dean together in Road Trip and never bashed Dean's choices.


    Garth also seemed sympathetic toward Dean, although he didn't know about the deal.

    ReplyDelete
  119. lala210 March 2014 at 23:29

    Dean's S6 story sucked because it was largely focused on Ben/Lisa. That entire relationship was forced, but I enjoyed most of S6. SS rocked! What really got me about that season with Dean was supposed to be lacking in skills due to his year off, but I never saw that. Dean was just as skillful and capable at huting as he had always been so that entire plot kind of fell flat for me.

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  120. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 23:31

    Kevin telling them to cut it out wasn't sympathetic to either party. He was saying their way of dealing with this was essentially childish, and they should confront it like adults.
    Forget giving "windows" to discuss it. They live in the same damn house. Either one of them can walk up to the other and say "Hey man, I really don't understand what you're saying you need". It's really that simple.


    And it's not crystal clear to Dean what Sam wants. Sam hasn't set any boundaries besides "I can't trust you like I should". There is no communication. There is nothing. They are totally ambiguous to eachother, and like I said before, could easily walk up to the other and simply ask.
    But they don't because their relationship is infantile.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Candy Cain10 March 2014 at 23:33

    Of course. Cas doesn't want to choose sides between the brothers, so he sympathizes with both. Unfortunately, during the rough times in the brother's relationships, Cas isn't there. And Cas hasn't been there for awhile now.


    Also, Garth has no idea what's going on between the two brothers, so his sympathies are irrelevant

    ReplyDelete
  122. lala210 March 2014 at 23:38

    I don't. Sam didn't need to say what he did in ST, TP, or even S&V. They always, IMO, have Sam saying the harshest things to Dean.

    Last year's penney speech was the closest Dean's come, IMO, to giving a cutting speech but even those words, IMO, weren't as devastating as what they had Sam say. It's like they go out of their way to make it seem like Sam doesn't care about Dean. I'm not sure why they do that.

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  123. San Summer10 March 2014 at 23:40

    I agree that Sam sees Dean as pretty competent so Sam doesn’t always have to worry about his brother. Like in Sacrifice, Dean tried to say that he couldn’t use the knowledge they had gained from the trials without Sam but Sam doesn’t
    agree.

    I think the problem is the context in which Jensen said it. He was answering a question regarding how Sam hasn’t been able to save Dean in a big way. Saying stuff like:

    “Sam seems to be a little preoccupied”,
    “maybe it’s a ‘little brother’ thing”,
    “maybe he’s like, “Hey, you’re my big brother. You can figure it out yourself””,
    “it’s a Sam-centric world in his mind. And I think it always has been”

    is really giving the impression that Sam “left” Dean in Purgatory etc. because Sam doesn’t care about Dean as much as Dean cares about Sam.

    ReplyDelete
  124. San Summer11 March 2014 at 00:12

    Yep, I think if the situation was exactly the same but it was Sam who had made the decisions Dean made, Sam would be called selfish (hasn’t Dean done enough for the family, hasn’t he suffered and sacrificed enough??) and Sam would be called self-righteous for thinking he has the right and so on.

    But because it’s Dean who has made the mistakes this time, Sam is still the ungrateful brother.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Peter J411 March 2014 at 00:16

    I mostly meant in the context of character bashing Dean or throwing him under the bus this season.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Peter J411 March 2014 at 00:17

    I feel like Sam has been the harshest from the first season. That's just how he is.

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  127. San Summer11 March 2014 at 00:32

    Sam felt that the choices he made regarding demon blood came from good intentions and he was doing it for the right reasons. However, he made his bed and he had to lie in it.

    Now though I see the Dean sympathy edit as writing on the wall that a lot of fault is gonna land on Sam.

    I wish Jensen hadn’t dodged the question about whether Dean did what he did also because he does not want to be alone.

    ReplyDelete
  128. lala211 March 2014 at 00:37

    Given what Carver has said, I doubt Sam will be shown to be in the wrong. Remember, this is what "maturity" looks like for Carver.

    ReplyDelete
  129. lala211 March 2014 at 00:39

    I guess you're right, but at least in the Kripke/Gamble years, I was certain in Sam's love for Dean and that he would do anything for his brother! Carver's turned all that on its head.

    ReplyDelete
  130. kerinda11 March 2014 at 00:48

    I even have video of Jensen saying that dean is a dick he said it and I just LOL'ed it was funny.

    ReplyDelete
  131. percysowner11 March 2014 at 00:50

    Well Carver spouted that line all last season while not giving one look at Sam so the audience could decide that on their own. Sam wasn't allowed to talk about exactly how he imploded. So Carver saying something is mature and actually writing it as if it was mature are two very different things.

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  132. percysowner11 March 2014 at 01:02

    Sadly true and before I'm told that people will see what they want to see, the writing doesn't give support to Sam's position. The second Sam found out what happened to him he was silenced by the writers and Dean got to mope and show how devastated he is. Sam is still silenced, Dean is still getting the sympathy edit.

    ReplyDelete
  133. Theresa Lewis11 March 2014 at 01:05

    Actually I got that Sam imploding and not looking for Dean was what Carver considered mature because then we didn't have the deals and stuff to save the other brother that tend to turn out badly. So Sam was the more mature of the brothers was what Carver was saying to me. We just didn't agree or appreciate that view, as the case may be.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Theresa Lewis11 March 2014 at 01:13

    I don't know that Jensen dodged the question. I think that's honestly the way he interprets Dean. Dean's not a real deep thoughts kinda guy and tends to not question things to carefully. More "all in" guy who doesn't look too closely at the fine print or his own thoughts.
    I still say that was the worst slap to the face that Sam delivered in throwing that at Dean. Having had someone throw that similar slap at me, stating I only wanted them around because I didn't want to be alone, even though I loved them more than anything, I don't see that being the case at all. And that's not a slap that goes away either. No one wants to be alone and, considering that Dean has hunted alone before, more than once, I don't think it's justified either.
    BUT I KNOW others completely agree with Sam and to each their own.

    ReplyDelete
  135. Peter J411 March 2014 at 01:18

    I was certain of that in the first 3 seasons. After that it's been a big blur for me, because the show sacrificed the brother relationship for angst and for Sam's quests (which they never let him win, which just makes it even more depressing). I think that Sam does love Dean, I just wish we got to see it more often.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Theresa Lewis11 March 2014 at 01:23

    " the show sacrificed the brother relationship for angst and for Sam's quests (which they never let him win, which just makes it even more depressing"
    Good point and I agree. They also sacrifice his POV a lot of times as well.

    ReplyDelete
  137. kerinda11 March 2014 at 01:32

    yes how would you feel if Jared said shit about Dean and that he is crap too you would not feel good about it and get pissed off too I am kind of pissed off with Jensen right now about this but hey that's him. I just can not wait untell a fan calls him on it ant the con this week and said's I am really pissed of you said that stuff about Sam I can not wait to see that.

    ReplyDelete
  138. lala211 March 2014 at 01:43

    I agree! Like the ladies in this interview said, I've always wanted to see Sam save Dean or save him in a really flashy, significant way!

    ReplyDelete
  139. browniegirl2711 March 2014 at 01:47

    I truly hope that none of the fans are that immature as to get testy with Jensen over comments he made about a fictional character. They'll get their little feelings hurt.

    ReplyDelete
  140. San Summer11 March 2014 at 02:05

    I agree that Dean would not sit around thinking the whys. He says: “What I do, I do because it's the right thing.”

    However, isn’t character motivation supposed to be a big part of actor’s work? He seemed to see this pretty huge statement about Dean as Sam “psychoanalyzing” his brother.

    ReplyDelete
  141. Donna C11 March 2014 at 02:14

    Damn, I leave for a few days and it's the end of the world here.

    ReplyDelete
  142. Donna C11 March 2014 at 02:17

    Are there any plans to have a similar interview with jared about Sam? That's the one I'd be interested in hearing. I'd love to know his take on what they've done to his character.

    ReplyDelete
  143. Donna C11 March 2014 at 02:19

    I knew there was a reason I gave up on the show during that season.

    ReplyDelete
  144. Theresa Lewis11 March 2014 at 02:19

    I sent a tweet to Winchester Radio asking them to please have Jared do the same. I would be interested too.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Donna C11 March 2014 at 02:21

    I hope it comes about. I'd like to know how much Jared's seen of online fandom reaction to how, uh, unsympathetic his character's been written in the last few eps. I can't even say much in his defense these days cause the writers are making him sound like a jagoff.

    ReplyDelete
  146. Theresa Lewis11 March 2014 at 02:24

    LOL! Right!

    ReplyDelete
  147. San Summer11 March 2014 at 02:41

    I want them to be brothers again but this “it’s a Sam-centric world in his mind” crap doesn’t seem to point in that direction :/

    ReplyDelete
  148. percysowner11 March 2014 at 03:07

    No! He never showed it as maturity on screen. He made the Sam edit as negative as possible. The scene with Benny admitting or at least hinting strongly that he had fed and killed humans, cut so Dean could look good and Sam could look bad. What writers say off screen doesn't matter unless it appears on screen and no one, NO ONE ever said anything other than Sam was a wrong bad brother. And Jensen's interview makes it abundently clear that Sam is going to be the wrong bad brother again and HE will be the reason Dean turns dark, because Dean will never be blamed for anything in canon.

    ReplyDelete
  149. percysowner11 March 2014 at 03:18

    I'm afraid they will go back to being brothers, but only using Dean's description of being brothers where Dean gets to bring up every mistake Sam has made, tell Sam he can't make any decisions in their lives and Sam is always wrong while Dean is always perfect. This interview upsets me more and more when I think about it.

    ReplyDelete
  150. Hellboy11 March 2014 at 04:39

    It's great to hear that all the theories that Dean's new attitude/willingness to kill are being played as an effect of the Mark of Cain.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Hellboy11 March 2014 at 04:40

    Plus wasn't the "selfish asshole" thing said as a joke? That's how I saw it.

    ReplyDelete
  152. Theresa Lewis11 March 2014 at 04:45

    That's the way I took it but several other . . . not so much.

    ReplyDelete
  153. Hellboy11 March 2014 at 04:47

    Pretty sure that was meant to be in jest. A dumb joke.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Hellboy11 March 2014 at 04:48

    This isn't the "maturity," this is the build up to that type of mature relationship he was talking about..

    ReplyDelete
  155. Lise11 March 2014 at 06:21

    Exactly! Love him,too. Hahahahaha....

    ReplyDelete
  156. Aline11 March 2014 at 07:11

    Evidently he does see a selfish asshole, the detailed elaboration after the initial comment shows that.


    I think Dean sees Sam as someone who isn't willing to kill for him any more. Sam would throw himself in from of a bullet for Dean in an instant, but he won't sacrifice an innocent person for him or make a deal with a demon etc for him. This was, in the past, what Dean wanted. Perhaps he doesn't want it any more and he does want Sam to kill, make deals etc for him.


    And unfortunately, by talking about Sam only having a Sam centric view on the world etc he might not be overlooking his past sacrifices but he's putting a very negative spin on the sacrifices that Sam did make.

    ReplyDelete
  157. lala211 March 2014 at 11:29

    And that's because the writers want to drag out this conflict until the end of the season or carry it over until next year.

    ReplyDelete
  158. lala211 March 2014 at 11:34

    Whatever. I don't want what Carver's selling.

    ReplyDelete
  159. lala211 March 2014 at 11:37

    As you should know, I don't disagree with you. Nothing Carver has done with Sam has been mature in MY opinion, and Sam hasn't been written with any sensitivity. That's the problem as I see it, but miles vary.

    ReplyDelete
  160. lala211 March 2014 at 11:43

    To me, Jensen saying Dean thinks Sam is a bit self-centered and solely concerned with his own feelings is similar to Sam saying Dea is selfish and only saved his life for himself. I don't agree with either statement in principle, but Carver has not been doing Sam any favors in MY opinion. And after the statements Sam made, I can see why Dean would feel the way he does. It's harder for me to understand why Sam wouldn't think love was agree so involved in Dean's decision to save his life.

    ReplyDelete
  161. San Summer11 March 2014 at 13:11

    If the possession story is too hot to handle, then they shouldn't have done it in the first place. They should have just left it at Sam and Dean choosing each other at the church and working on their issues together. They could have even found a way to get Dean to accept the mark because he is so willing to sacrifice himself etc.

    ReplyDelete
  162. San Summer11 March 2014 at 13:13

    Portraying the situation as

    Dean is all in vs. Sam is cashing out or
    Dean will do anything for Sam vs. Sam is not willing to throw his life on the line like Dean


    -> it seems like Sam will draw the short straw again.

    ReplyDelete
  163. AgentS11 March 2014 at 13:40

    Thanks so much for this! I absolutely loved hearing Jensen's thoughts on
    Dean, the mark of cain, and other aspects of the show past and present.
    His comments on Sam & season 6 Dean made me LOL, and I do love how frank he is about
    things. Jensen really thinks about the storylines and his character
    deeply and it definitely shows in his acting. Thank you Jensen, and
    Winchester Bros!

    ReplyDelete
  164. sue11 March 2014 at 13:47

    With Vegas con everyone will be intrested in the MoC now that he is talking about it and we have seen pics. And he sounds like he is enjoying the storyline or arc so it will be intresting to see what he says. I am glad he was very candid. I am glad he was so open but its like that when you sit with him for a 1/2 at a con he is relaxed and can speak freely. And I am curioius what surprizes are in store in the last few eps this season. Either I see Dean and the MoC leaving sam so he won't hurt him but I am hopeing an apology by then in finale.

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  165. sharonally11 March 2014 at 14:44

    Yes it was unfortunate he said that , we can all live in our own world sometimes even Dean has but in the climate it is right now it hurt Sam perhaps more than it would of done many seasons ago.

    ReplyDelete
  166. Ross11 March 2014 at 14:55

    I've finally listened to it all, and I have no idea why people are up in arms over this interview. Relax folks.

    ReplyDelete
  167. sue11 March 2014 at 14:56

    I get the feeling that Jared and Jensen would talk about what he said in an interview and I think after 9 seasons they would probobly have a good laugh over it. And I also think if fans attack Jensen at the con that Jared would stick up for him like Jensen would for Jared. Hey if Jared wants to speak out about what Jensen said or how he feels about Dean the character I am sure he would and i don't think Jensen would really care in the end they are characters they play.Jared is allowed his opinion like Jensen.

    ReplyDelete
  168. lala211 March 2014 at 18:58

    I agree w/you, but, again, it all depends on Carver. He's the one making it seem like Dean is all in while Sam is not. I never thought that until the travesty that was last season, and Carver is only carrying that message into this season. And I still don't buy Carver's version of Sam, but that's me.

    According to Carver though, Sam made the mature, best decision last year. Maybe Dean is supposed to learn how to be more like Sam. I have no clue. I don't know where this story is going or what I'm supposed to be learning from it. I do think Jensen was just giving us Dean's perspective on what's happening and how Dean feels.

    ReplyDelete
  169. sdwhiskey11 March 2014 at 19:04

    Sorry I don't agree. Just look at the Harry/Ed dialog in Thin Man, which is supposed to be a direct parallel to Sam/Dean:

    Harry to Ed (to parallel Sam to Dean): "Too many people have died 'cause of your crap."

    Ed (Dean): "I've done all this crap for us. I-I don't know why you don't see that"

    Harry (Sam): "No. No. You did this for you."

    That's not the show being sympathetic to Dean. It's the exact opposite IMO. Ed/Dean are shown to be the selfish ones whose actions have resulted in people dying.

    ReplyDelete
  170. lala211 March 2014 at 19:19

    That's how I saw it too.

    Granted, I never bought what Carver was selling (and still don't), but I believe he believes he "matured" Sam by having him not look for Dean. It didn't seem to matter to Carver that no one actually supported Sam's supposedly "mature" decision; it was still the best decision for Sam to make.

    Carver told a crappy story from the very start and never did anything to actually show Sam's POV on the things that mattered.

    ReplyDelete
  171. lala211 March 2014 at 19:22

    Haha!

    ReplyDelete
  172. San Summer11 March 2014 at 19:34

    Yeah that’s why Jensen’s interview is a bit depressing. Is that how Dean sees his brother? If so, I hope it’s because of the mark.

    Are they really going full steam ahead on this co-dependency thing? You know, how one person is fixated on taking care of another person who in turn is focused on himself (“Sam seems to be a little preoccupied / it’s a Sam-centric world in his mind”). A huge disservice to both.

    I know you have debated against how far Dean is willing to go but now Jensen stated that Dean is about keeping his brother alive at all cost. It seems like what Dean said at the church needs to be taken pretty literally:

    “I killed Benny to save you. I'm willing to let this bastard and all the sons of bitches that killed mom walk because of you. Don't you dare think that there is anything, past or present, that I would put in front of you! It has never been like that, ever!”.

    ReplyDelete
  173. fazziemodo11 March 2014 at 21:27

    I don't know and maybe because he said that I hope I am getting what Carver is trying to do. Basically put Sam into a place everyone else has been in. To move Sam from faux maturity when it comes to his and his brother's relationship to true maturity and Dean out of the codependency trap.


    Season 8, him not looking, it is probably as mature as Dean selling his soul for his brother and we saw where that lead to. But by the same token Dean selling his soul was him doing as he had been taught to do - look after his little brother. Sam has always been the little brother, he always had that get out clause in the responsibility stakes, so to him, not looking probably did have something to do so for him being mature at that point was falling back on what he felt other people have always told him to do, just like Dean selling his soul was to do with John putting him into a parental role. It's not right or forgivable but it is a way to think on it.


    Also if you think on it season 8 with all of Sam's screw ups of not looking and his over reaction with Benny mean that a wedge was all ready there. According to Jensen Dean's actions are now dictated by the Mark but with all that history there is no way that Sam's continued reaction to the possession is.


    Sam has never been able to save Dean but also he has never been in a position he has had to forgive him for such a huge thing either. Sure there has been Amy, but compared to the Ruby, demon blood everything that happened when soulless and the not looking while in purgatory, Benny thing, comparatively speaking Dean has done a lot more dealing with screw ups on a grand scale than Sam has. It is time that Sam learns that lesson, deal with it from the POV of the hurt one as if you don't all it will do will cause more problems in the long run. He won't be truly mature until he does because Dean has been heading down this path since season 8, what has Sam done - told Dean to shut up and then the trials to prove his worth to Dean. Their relationship would have been healthier if they could had communicated and like it or not this time it is on Sam to make the move.

    ReplyDelete
  174. chris68411 March 2014 at 21:37

    I finally had a chance to listen to this. My reaction is that the questions are answered by someone who spends most of his days in Dean's headspace, so he was answering most of the them from Dean's point of view. He even tried to answered the question, who would he like to see come back, from Dean's point of view.


    The best part of this tape was when he was talking about the pranks he and Jared tried to play on Misha while directing, but were thwarted because Misha took "precautionary measures." He never explains that further.

    ReplyDelete
  175. lala211 March 2014 at 21:47

    Is that how Dean sees his brother?

    Right now? It's certainly possible. Sam thinks Dean only had selfish motives in saving his life, and he doesn't appear to be moving from that position. I'm not sure why it's worse for Dean to think bad of Sam than for Sam to think bad of Dean.

    I know you have debated against how far Dean is willing to go but now
    Jensen stated that Dean is about keeping his brother alive at all cost.
    It seems like what Dean said at the church needs to be taken pretty
    literally

    And I stand by my statement that Dean - the real Dean - would NEVER kill innocent people to save Sam. He would never knowingly sacrifice innocent lives for Sam. He's never done that, and he wouldn't do that now.

    If Carver writes him as doing so, it will be just more OOC stuff Carver has done since he returned to the show.

    ReplyDelete
  176. San Summer11 March 2014 at 22:22

    Also if you think on it season 8 with all of Sam's screw ups of not looking and his over reaction with Benny mean that a wedge was all ready there. According to Jensen Dean's actions are now dictated by the Mark but with all that history there is no way that Sam's continued reaction to the possession is.

    Sam’s reaction to the possession shouldn’t have to be validated by being the result of the mark of Cain. It’s actually pretty remarkable that he can still smile etc. with Dean if Dean has been more unreasonable than expected due to the mark.

    If Sam said they aren’t brothers the way they are supposed to, isn’t it very close to Dean’s message in season 8? There were many occasions when Dean treated Benny more like a brother than how he regarded Sam.

    It is time that Sam learns that lesson, deal with it from the POV of the hurt one as if you don't all it will do will cause more problems in the long run.

    It’s sad that a story about being possessed against one’s will turns into a learning lesson to deal with Dean’s hurt.

    ReplyDelete
  177. fazziemodo11 March 2014 at 22:38

    I have seen it posted around to say the mark itself is a reason this is going on for so long. I think it is taking a toll on Dean, yes but it should be qualified that it isn't taking a toll on Sam other than what it is doing to Dean. It can be said that Sam's blood addiction had no affect on Dean but it did take a toll on Sam and it is that that hit Dean. Not the demon blood itself.


    My remark is to state that a lot of season 8 was to show the rift from Sam's side is purely a human reaction. That even if with everything that has happened what he is feeling is purely himself and not something causing him to feel that way. Sam usually get the supernatural fallout, but this time the fallout on his side is going to be from his true self. That will cause him to mature more than learning or showing things from some big gesture, which is to me a faux maturity.


    If anything I hope the aim is to make Sam more relate-able for a lot of people. For me, I get Dean more. I should get Sam more but I actually know little about him relatively. I get Charlie and the Ghostfacers more than Sam outside his 'screwups'. I know it maybe hard for Sam fans and it is hard to watch for Dean fans too but in some ways we have never had to see Dean needing someone to pick up the slack and Sam having to really break out of his little brother role in this manner when hurt.

    ReplyDelete
  178. San Summer11 March 2014 at 22:45

    Because Dean allowed Sam to get possessed leading to people getting hurt even though Dean believed Sam would rather die. I really hope that the real Dean isn’t thinking that Sam being hurt by all of it is Sam being self-centered. You didn’t see Dean thinking that Sam was ungrateful when Sam was upset that Dean had sold his soul for him.

    I’ve been on the fence about how far Dean would go. He was planning on making some sort of deal with Crowley but I don’t think he would have sold his soul. But all the talk about how Dean is “all in” and will save Sam “at all cost” make it seem like anything is possible. But then it doesn’t make much sense to paint Sam in negative light because he isn’t willing to do that while making Dean’s actions to be about how he wants to “keep the family together”.

    ReplyDelete
  179. San Summer11 March 2014 at 23:14

    I do think there is a lot of potential for a role reversal. I see possible parallels between Dean’s mark of Cain arc and Sam’s demon blood arc. However, it is required that Sam won’t be cast as the “bad brother” that causes “Cain” to go off the rails. Otherwise the story turns into another version how Sam has failed Dean as a brother.

    ReplyDelete
  180. fazziemodo11 March 2014 at 23:36

    I think the idea is a kind of role reversal and the fact it is being driven home that the brothers are two different people so will react differently to it. Hence the reminder in the interview that Sam is the LITTLE brother which probably will have more to do with his reaction than being a bad brother.


    Dean going off the rails is Dean going off the rails and he'd be the first one to admit that is on him, Sam explained in part that he went with Ruby to feel more in control than when he felt with Dean - that is a younger sibling attitude compared to an older one.


    But if we are doing the correlation between the demon blood and the mark of cain then we also have to note that Dean noticed that Sam was off before the big reveal of the drinking the blood, it took the psiren to make him voice it but we knew he saw it before that. It took Dean killing a guy in front of him to notice that Dean isn't exactly the same as he usually is when they fight. I take that from even though Dean was suffering the after effects of hell in season 4, he was still a big brother who is the protector knowing something is wrong with his little brother. Sam isn't a big brother, he wants to protect and help his brother when he can but he isn't in tune with that as Dean has been forced to be. He has every right to be pissed but because he isn't used to having to look out for his big brother's emotional state so he isn't factoring in the mark's effects on Dean, who hasn't hidden the thing from him at all. So he doesn't get that he should drop some of his anger and look out for his brother at that point because he isn't used to having to look at the world like that to the extent that Dean has and they are also so isolated that they haven't anyone there telling Sam he has too in a way he will listen.

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  181. San Summer12 March 2014 at 00:25

    I do find it problematic if the dubious nature of getting someone possessed without their knowledge is glossed over. They made a Teen Mom joke which I never expected but if they leave it at that then I’ll feel like they know all the questionable issues that are related to possession but are too afraid to address them in fear of making Dean unsympathetic.

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  182. Paula R. Stiles12 March 2014 at 00:54

    He doesn't need to "make sure" of anything when it's the writers who wrote Sam that way. It's not as though half the fandom isn't saying it, already.

    If you want to hate an actor for discussing a fictional character frankly, nobody's going to stop you, but such hostility does come off as very immature. At best.

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  183. lala212 March 2014 at 01:48

    Again, you're speaking as if Dean knew innocent people would be harmed w/this plan. He did NOT. If Castiel had NOT vouched for Ezekiel and told Dean that Ezekiel was a "psycho angel" who would murder thousands, do you honestly think Dean would have shrugged his shoulders and said, "Do it anyway?"

    Again, maybe under Carver, he would, but the real Dean would have NEVER done that. The only reason Dean went w/the plan is b/c Ezekiel was an angel and was supposed to be healing his own body and Sam's while in Sam's body. What part of that plan implies that innocent lives will be taken or harmed?

    I believe Jensen was telling us how Dean feels. Dean feels that he's "all in," meaning he's fully committed to hunting and Sam. For instance, if Sam disappeared, Dean would look for him. Dean does not feel that Sam would do the same for him, and according to Carver, Sam wouldn't.

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  184. San Summer12 March 2014 at 02:20

    That’s the thing. I’m on the fence about how far Dean is willing to go because I don’t think he would knowingly sacrifice innocents for Sam but at the same time Dean is positioned as wanting to save Sam at all cost. There is a reason why both wouldn’t want the other one making a deal and one of the key elements is the fallout that outsiders would almost certainly have to bear. Yet Dean is shown not to think about it when Sam’s life is on the line. I think they might try to create the classic question of would you save one sibling or five strangers.

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  185. fazziemodo12 March 2014 at 06:55

    If you want to really think about it angelic possession with the exception of three cases has always been dubious and one of those involved a 12 year old girl. Claire. the second time Jimmy let Cas in and Sam saying yes to Lucifer were the only times when the person saying yes involved a real understanding what could happen if you let an angel in. I doubt Bart's or anyone else's vessel really understood what they were agreeing to. But in 5 seasons of angels it hasn't really been discussed.


    Because of that pesky word that even Sam said this time - YES.


    Now I'm not saying he was fully aware of what he said yes to this time or that Dean was right at all. But it has to be admitted that Sam consented to something. That also has to be addressed. He is at the point of bargaining with Death to go and not be brought back in a way that ever can cause anyone to be hurt and then his brother appears in his head and he says Yes to Dean's plan without asking for the details, details someone with Sam's experience should know ain't good Then when Dean is 'caught' about being complainant with keeping Sam in the dark about what he said yes, instead of just keeping it to the possession itself which would keep the fight on topic about the dubious nature of the possession, he throws in Dean being responsible for the decision not to finish the trials.


    I'm not saying it is a bad brother reaction but a little brother reaction - throw in everything and the kitchen sink and that in terms of the brothers relationship has to be looked at seeing how it detracts from the intial thing the argument is about.

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  186. San Summer12 March 2014 at 14:49

    How morally grey Dean as a character would appear is very much why they haven’t dared to explore the consent issues. It’s easier to write dark Dean that has the mark because then they can just look at stuff like revenge, isolation etc. But talking about how he got his brother possessed even though he believed Sam would rather die is going into a territory that might be too difficult for them. After all, they have used some very heavy topics as analogous to people being used by supernatural forces against their will. Unfortunately, they are making Sam look worse in the process of avoiding the issue.

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  187. K Smith12 March 2014 at 18:26

    "I'm not sure why it's worse for Dean to think bad of Sam than for Sam to think bad of Dean. "
    I agree. I don't get why it's okay for Sam to tell Dean that Dean only saved Sam because Dean didn't want to be alone, that Dean only sacrifices when Dean doesn't suffer and that Dean has done more bad than good.
    If that's how Sam sees Dean then that's depressing and not the Sam I used to know in earlier seasons.

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  188. K Smith12 March 2014 at 18:32

    What a great treat! Brilliant interview by Jensen. I loved hearing Jensen's thoughts on Dean and Dean's storyline. We really haven't gotten much promotion and interviews about this storyline, so it was nice to hear from Jensen himself.

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  189. fazziemodo12 March 2014 at 19:10

    I don't think it has to do with how morally grey Dean is the reason why they haven't discussed the consent issues in depth. I think that they haven't is more to do with the fact that you would also go into every angel and the consent issues with them because people are saying yes without all the facts. But the brothers aren't going and saving each one. They haven't extracted Cas from Jimmy because friend or not Jimmy is still being worn like a raincoat and not being allowed to rest.


    Also if you think back to the last episode Ed and Harry were meant to parallel Sam and Dean. Harry didn't have to dump the girl and go with Ed. At any point he could have used his own intiative and stuck with the objectives he stated he wanted - the girl and the job. But he didn't he went Ed.


    It isn't simply the consent issues this rift is supposed to be exploring, it is the whole relationship with the brothers. Sam's reactions had to be shown to be solely his before the mark came into play for it to work. If his reactions make him look like the bad guy to some then that is a problem. To me, he is acting like a jerk because he is an immature little brother when it comes to the relationship with his over protective brother because usually it things aren't fully dealt with because there is usually some sort of big gesture or thing that means the boys postpone the fights that needed to happen because they are alive. Hence why Dean could hold on to so many grudges - what could Sam throw back, after everything Dean kept a secret. That was it and how did he handle it after? Yelling at Dean to drop it wasn't exactly a mature way to deal with the situation. If Sam is to grow and become more relatable to those who like me can't tell you what music he likes or books he likes to read or anything outside he may like Star Wars you may have to accept the fact he may have to look worse before it gets better.

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  190. San Summer12 March 2014 at 19:44

    I think instead of an immature little brother thing it’s gonna be more about how both at the church and at the hospital Sam said yes after Dean pleaded for them to be together. On one hand it’s a good thing because they have a bond but the show will probably problematize Dean feeling “there ain’t no me if there ain’t no you”.

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  191. lala212 March 2014 at 23:04

    I’m on the fence about how far Dean is willing to go

    I'm not.

    There is absolutely nothing in the show's history to support Carver's idea that Dean is willing to sacrifice innocent lives to save Sam. There are limits to what he is willing to do. Would he sacrifice himself? Possibly. But he would never sacrifice an innocent person.

    I also think this story shows his limits b/c it's not like Dean immediately jumped on GadZeke's idea. He agonized (as much as could be shown in an hour show) over the decision and attempted to vet "Ezekiel" before approving the plan. He considered it and weighed his options. He didn't go into this imp I think they might try to create the classic question of would you save one sibling or five strangers.ulsively like w/the MOC. And for all Dean knew, no one would be hurt by his plan.

    I think they might try to create the classic question of would you save one sibling or five strangers.


    AFAIC, we've seen what Dean would do in this situation. This exact scenario played out in S5, and Dean always chose to save innocent lives over saving Sam. In GGY, Dean is told Sam has been taken by demons, but the townspeople needed help. We saw that Dean's first impulse was to go to Sam, but he didn't. He stayed w/the people and helped them. In S7, when Dean finds the jar of blood but Sam's missing, we know he's concerned, but he had to try to put the souls or whatever back to Purgatory. He didn't drop everything to search for Sam. Heck, in S1, Sam sent those psycho cannibals after Sam instead of the sheriff. He prioritized that woman's life over Sam's. And I'm sure there may be other examples.



    I believe I know how Dean would react based on the show's history. If Carver wants to sell me a story where Dean will suddenly kill some innocent people or sacrifice innocents to save Sam, then I will call that out as the OOC crap it will be.

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  192. San Summer13 March 2014 at 15:36

    There is no way in hell they are gonna have Dean in his sound mind sacrificing innocents for Sam because the character could never live that down. So I think that doesn’t need to even be speculated. What I’m talking about though is the attitude of “keeping the family together at all cost”, “I killed Benny to save you. I'm willing to let this bastard and all the sons of bitches that killed mom walk because of you”. Dean said it himself he doesn’t think things through but I think they might set up a situation where he will have to consider the collateral damage that will result from him wanting to save Sam at all cost.

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  193. AgentS13 March 2014 at 15:50

    I really loved this ... thank you to Jensen for giving such a long and
    in-depth interview. Such a rare chance to hear his opinions and insight
    on the character of Dean and current/past storylines for an extended
    length of time rather than quick 5 minute interviews or cons where the
    questions are often far lighter and/or JA is playing entertainer to the
    crowd.



    I appreciated that this was an interview focused on Dean, as I felt it
    should be, and I thought it was great. Wonderful to hear him go into
    detail on his thoughts, and Dean's POV and feelings and what's in store
    for Dean. Watching eps since First Born, it seemed like the Mark of Cain
    was effecting him subtly, but nothing was stated for sure in-show, so
    it was great to have it confirmed that... yes, indeed, the
    coldness/killing/more aggressive behavior is because of the mark.
    Figured it was but it's nice to have it confirmed, especially since
    after First Born we've had little mention of the mark and no major
    movement to the storyline (though that looks to change next episode).



    Loving the slow build they're doing with Dean & the MoC and the way
    Jensen described it. Intrigued & excited by the comment on increased
    physical strength too, and that the mark seems to be slowly draining
    away Dean's humanity. Looks like we're in for some Dark!Dean and an
    mytharc actually focusing on him and for me it's a welcome change that
    makes me very, very excited for the upcoming episodes. I get the
    feeling, since JA said it's still building up at ep 20, that the mark of
    cain storyline will probably carry over into season 10. I hope so, as
    there is a lot of possibilities for this story and I hope it's explored
    fully (like I wish they'd done with Purgatory).



    Really surprising and interesting comment, to me, about JA saying Dean
    would like his father back the most AND that he always felt that Dean
    would eventually become John (to some extent). I think there are a lot
    of differences between the two characters, but there was always some
    John in Dean to be sure.



    As for Sam's role here... I'm guessing it's going to be more in line w/
    the role Dean usually plays. My guess is it will be Sam's turn to save
    Dean, and each will walk a little in each others shoes. Looking forward
    to it, personally, and enjoying this season very much. :D

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  194. lala213 March 2014 at 23:58

    I guess I'm not seeing the difference in your statements. We both agree that Dean will NEVER kill innocents or knowingly sacrifice people for Sam so what type of collateral damage are you talking about? What type of scenario were you thinking about?

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  195. San Summer14 March 2014 at 03:10

    I think it’s about making deals. Dean wouldn’t go through with it if he had to literally trade one life for Sam’s (unless maybe if it was his own) but at the same time he doesn’t allow himself to fully think about the consequences of making deals to bring Sam back because then he would probably have to stand down. Also exploring the tension between the good of the many and the value that is uniquely in everyone.

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  196. lala214 March 2014 at 22:16

    I guess. . . but don't you think most deals aren't presented as impacting anyone other than the person making the deal. I doubt many people would - in good conscience - sanction a plan that kills thousands to save a loved one, but if the deal only impacted the person making it, then it's much easier to make that kind of deal. Dean's never been given the option of hurting others to save Sam. You know what I mean?

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  197. San Summer15 March 2014 at 02:37

    To me it goes back to The Purge. Dean said he did the right thing and would do it again, I assume he is just referring to Sam being alive. Dean’s thinking that what he is doing is worth it is flawed according to Sam. Sam brings up Kevin’s death, Crowley, the angels etc. It seems like Sam thinks Dean should have never gone through with it considering the possible consequences of putting his trust on an angel / making a deal “just” to save Sam.

    But then the mark of Cain stuff might turn the situation back around to Sam. Dean might become dangerous to others and Sam might be faced with the decision of having to kill him or trying to save him and risk Dean harming others.

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