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Supernatural 9.15 "#Thinman" Review: Through a Mirror Darkly

Mar 5, 2014

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    This week’s episode of Supernatural, “#Thinman,” was written by Jenny Klein and directed by Jeannot Szwarc. It marks the return of the Ghostfacers, Ed Zeddmore (AJ Buckley) and Harry Spangler (Travis Wester) who we haven’t seen since the appeared in an online video in season four’s “It’s a Terrible Life.” In this appearance, they are a lot less for comic relief and a lot more for holding a mirror up to Sam and Dean. The episode is well written and pays detailed homage to Ghostfacer history. The episode also features one of the creepiest opening sequences that the show has seen in quite some time.

    The opening scene plays on a number of my own personal long held childhood fears – right down to a recurring nightmare I had as a kid in which louvered closet doors played a major part. I think it’s a pretty universal fear to be freaked out by suddenly seeing someone standing behind you who you didn’t know was there, whether it’s in a mirror or a picture. Kudos to both Klein and Szwarc for pulling that scene off so well. A quick acknowledgement of Jerry Wanek and his team for creating yet another memorable motel room – I loved the gigantic wooden Paul Bunyon on the wall!

    I wasn’t a big fan of the Ghostfacers’ first appearance in “Hell House” in season one, and for a long time that was my least favorite episode in season one. For me, at the time, the humor pulled me out of the show. However, if you are a fan of Supernatural, you have to be a fan of the lengths to which the show is meta – commenting on itself – and the degree of bravery the show has with experimentation. By season three, the next appearance of the Ghostfacers, I was solidly a fan of those two elements of the series. Elements that make it great television quite apart from the terrific acting week in and week out of the two leads, Jensen Ackles (Dean) and Jared Padalecki (Sam), and the core story of the brothers.

    This episode, however, manages to do both as Ed and Harry are clearly meant to be a reflection of what is happening with the brothers. Ed is clearly meant to be a reflection of Dean, right down to the flannel shirt and green jacket that Ed is wearing and the beard that they are both now sporting (though Dean’s is pretty light this episode, no doubt in deference to the duct tape scene at the end...). Harry is the one wanting out of the life and even wears Sam’s signature hoodie under his jacket.

    As the episode opens, Dean is about to leave on a hunt. The brothers clearly aren’t talking as Sam has no idea what Dean has been up to. Dean admits that he has no idea what his brother is thinking anymore, so he wasn’t sure if Sam was interested in going on the hunt. Sam is clearly irritated at Dean’s jumping to this conclusion and doesn’t hesitate to pack up to go on the hunt. This scene is clearly echoed later in the episode when Harry surprises Ed by wanting to go with him to “make it right” and catch the bad guys.
Even the blocking in this scene has Sam/Harry vs Dean/Ed

    We catch up with Ed and Harry before Sam and Dean do. Ed is excited about new Twitter followers while Harry is obsessing about his former girlfriend Dana possibly being in a new relationship. Harry is distracted by her at a couple of points, but in general, Ed’s deception about the Thinman has become Harry’s major focus. Are we to see a parallel to Sam’s relationship with Amelia and his wanting out of the life? Harry tells Ed that he’d planned on getting married, and Ed responds that he saved him from a boring life. Ed has built his life around his relationship with Harry in much the same way as Dean has built his around Sam. In fact, Ed echoes Dean’s words when he says that everything he’s done has been for them, and Harry echoes Sam’s words when he tells Ed that Ed’s done it all for himself. Harry and Ed seem to have as little understanding of each other as Sam and Dean have of each other right now.

    Dean doesn’t want to admit the Ghostfacers might be onto something, and he certainly doesn’t want to admit that they figured it out before he did. I had to wonder if part of Dean’s anger toward the Ghostfacers at first wasn’t also a bit of jealousy that they seem to have as strong a partnership as ever while Dean and Sam’s is a mess. When they first arrived in town and there was a clear link between the blogging about the Thinman and his appearance, I immediately thought of the Tulpa in “Hell House.” When Dean didn’t immediately go there, I was worried – clearly needlessly! – that Klein was going to drop the ball on picking up this thread. I loved that we revisited that! I also liked that we revisited “Ghostfacers” in a couple of ways. First we do find out what happened to Spruce and Maggie. Spruce left to create a start up business and Maggie joined the roller derby – both left for more “normal” lives. Naturally, Ed and Harry don’t tell Sam and Dean that. We also get the footage of Harry hunting the Thinman shot in the same way as “Ghostfacers” with the handheld camera. The episode did a terrific job in integrating all these past elements.

    The episode also does an interesting job of examining what it means to be an outsider. Ed and Harry are clearly the geek/nerds who aren’t noticed by mainstream society. Dean calls them “fame whores” and they’ve always been interested in creating fans and a having a following through their original movie to their websites and now their book. Roger (Giovanni Mocibob) and Deputy Norwood (Nicholas Carella) are also social outcasts who met in a bar and discovered their mutual interest in conspiracy theories. They piggyback off of Ed and Harry’s fame, in much the same way as Ed and Harry used Sam and Dean’s expertise to get their own start.

    Roger taunts Dean with the fact that he’s such a pretty boy that he could have no idea what it’s like not to be noticed. He tells them that he and Norwood were never noticed even in their small town. Sam and Dean have always had to operate outside of society, however, and are really just as much outcasts as the other two pairs. I thought the choice of Norwood for the deputy was a nice reflection of the Thinman being made out of wood. In the end, the desire for fame has a negative consequence for both Ed and Harry and Roger and Norwood. In a way, I felt this portrayal of those on the outskirts of society was disturbingly negative and reminded me of the treatment that Becky got in “Season Seven: Time for a Wedding!”. On the other hand, there is perhaps more at play here.

    The episode features a number of great scenes. Early in the episode, Ed relates Dana’s bizarre habit of asking Harry to bring her cream puffs with no cream. Clearly the cream is the best part. When Ed goes to confess to Sam and Dean that he’s created the Thinman, he describes himself and Harry without the Thinman – any real supernatural credentials – as simply puffs. Deep down Ed knows that the cream of their relationship is their shared commitment to the Ghostfacers and once that is gone, they have nothing left. Dean wasn’t wrong to call them fame whores as Ed worries about losing their followers and even wants Harry to keep up the ruse. Sam immediately tells Ed that he has to tell the truth, that “secrets ruin relationships.” Dean agrees and tells Ed to tell Harry right away. Unfortunately, the truth is what ruins Ed and Harry’s relationship. Harry responds to the truth by telling Ed he can’t trust him anymore. Ed begs Harry to tell him what he needs, but Harry won’t tell him. This is a nice mirror for Sam not being particularly clear to Dean – or at least Dean no longer having any ability to read his brother. Perhaps it is actually a step forward at the beginning of the episode that Dean at least is no longer making assumptions about what Sam wants or reading in what Dean wants Sam to want.

    Sam is able to talk to Harry, further solidifying the obvious parallel between them as the wronged half of the partnership. Harry tells Sam that he feels like he’s “just been punched right in the feels.” Something many viewers can relate to! Sam commiserates that there are some things you just can’t forgive. Even though Harry can’t forgive Ed, and it seems Sam can’t forgive Dean, neither can just forget about the other. Harry kills Norwood to save Ed, and Sam freaks out when Dean is about to get his throat slit. The entire scene is put in motion by Ed’s selfish act of creating the Thinman to dupe Harry into continuing the Ghostfacers, and it results in Harry’s loss of innocence. This can certainly be seen as a parallel to what Sam and Dean are going through as well. However, Dean also saves Harry by killing Roger and Ed saves Sam by jumping between him and Norwood, so there is some redemption for all the characters.

    There were a couple of things I really liked about the final confrontation scene. Ed and Harry do the Ghostfacer salute just before they break up to save Sam and Dean. I loved Ed butchering the pronunciation of meme. I also liked Dean asking Roger and Norwood if they were engaging in some kind of twisted cosplay. Fandom in all its many incarnations is such a part of their vernacular now!

    The final scene in which Harry splits from Ed and bums a ride in the back of the Impala is also a powerful one. Harry says what Sam and Dean have both been thinking. “You run with a guy for so long that you think you’ll always be together.” That you’ll be sitting on a porch in side by side rocking chairs when you’re old and suddenly one of the chairs is empty. This is certainly one vision of how the brothers might end up. It’s certainly the vision that Dean has had – when he hasn’t been certain of an early death. Both Dean and Sam look thoughtful and unhappy as they realize how much this echoes their own feelings. Both Wester and Buckley give excellent performances, but I really felt for Ed in the final shot we have of Buckley with the one perfect tear as he watches his world drive away in the Impala.

    I have, of course, saved what will no doubt be the overwhelmingly favorite scene of the episode for last. Dean and Sam reminisce about their childhood. As always, Dean clearly savors the memory of their childhood adventures with Sam playing Batman and Dean playing Superman, ending in Sam breaking his arm. Once again, apparently, Dean has lead Sam into danger that resulted in Sam being hurt. Dean is clearly proud of the fact that he then drove Sam to the ER on the handlebars of his bike, playing protector and caretaker. Even Sam is transported by the memory and smiles fondly at it. Will memories like this be enough for Sam to find it in him to forgive his brother? It seems at this point to be unlikely.

    My final comments are saved for Dean in this episode. For the first time, we see him deliberately kill a human – something they have previously always avoided. Dean shows absolutely zero remorse, and it is only Sam that is troubled by the fact that they’ve just killed two humans. Once again, Ed echoes Dean’s sentiments when Harry tells him how disturbed he is that he just shot and killed someone. In fact, Harry almost echoes Sam’s words from previous episodes – “too many people have died for your crap.” Both Ed and Dean say they were bad guys and dismiss killing them. They’ve become judge and jury. Dean has often said that Sam acted as his conscience. Is he now without one? Is this an effect of the mark of Cain? Are we simply to see Dean as clearly the “bad guy”?

    I’m not sure that in the end the episode has a clear message for us, but it certainly draws provocative parallels between Harry and Ed and Sam and Dean. I felt this was a different incarnation of the Ghostfacers than we’ve seen before – more serious – so I’m curious as to whether people liked this new tone or not. What did you think of the episode? Did you feel this helped to work out any of Sam and Dean’s issues? Were you as troubled as I was by Dean so slowly and deliberately killing Roger? Let me know your thoughts in the comments below!

71 comments:

  1. I liked it. I was also noticing a lot Twitter/Tumblr hate for the episode before it even aired, and then f course. I noticed this especially from a certain segment of fandom, there's this odd dislike for Jenny Klein, that anything she writes is terrible regardless of the actual quality. Terms like sexist, misogynistic, and racist thrown at her, and it's dumbfounding as to why.

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  2. That is exactly what I thought! That there was a judge, jury and executioner vibe when it came
    to Dean. At first I wasn’t sure if Dean’s kill was meant to be significant or just an acting choice from Jensen et al. to add some layers to the character but now I think it was. Although it could be about the mark or just a general Dean shutting down.

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  3. I wasn't expecting to like this episode as much as I did. I join you in your confusion over the hate for Jenny Klein. I generally quite like her episodes...

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  4. I definitely think it's part of Dean shutting down. While I was looking for pictures for the article, I came across a screencap from last week of Dean at the end of the episode, listening to music with his face completely neutral and shut off. I think that kill was very significant...

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  5. Great review, I just have to say that they HAVE both killed humans before: season 1, episode 15 "The Benders". That was when Sam was kidnapped by a group of rednecks who enjoyed hunting people.

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  6. Some people disliked the episode because they just didn't dig it, and that's fine. But I've noticed a lot of the vitriolic name calling like sexist and racist come from the Destiel segment of the fandom. Which I honestly feel comes from her writing a sex scene for Dean in "A Rock and Hard Place," because that goes against their narrative that he can only want Cas.


    I think Klein is one of the consistently solid writers on the show, that's the only reason for hatred I can honestly think of.

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  7. Actually, the Winchester's didn't kill anyone in "The Bender," the female sheriff mentions she shot Pa Bender while he tried to "escape." But, Sam and Dean have killed people before. Dean shot one of the siblings that was living in the wall of a house in "Family Remains," and Sam shot the guy who controlling the ghost in "The Mentalists."

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  8. His mindset can definitely go in a very particular direction when he is in turmoil. It reminds me of episode Bloodlust when Dean was reeling from John’s death and decapitated a vampire in such a fashion that Sam stared at him and was rattled by the whole thing.

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  9. That's an excellent parallel! I wish I'd thought of that myself! Actually, I did compare where Dean is at with him in Bloodlust a few episodes ago and got shouted down for it! LOL! Dean is just not good on his own - and I mean that in every sense of the word...

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  10. Thanks! Have to agree with the comment below - Sam and Dean didn't kill any humans in "The Benders." But of course, I've commented a few times in recent reviews about their disturbing trend to never try to exorcise or save the host any more.

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  11. But did he know they were actually human when he shot them? At least in that episode, Dean was pretty messed up about having killed a human....

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  12. Ah. That explains it. I think it is ridiculous to witch hunt any writer because you objected to one episode...

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  13. Yay! :D And why would you get shouted down for it?? I’m glad if they are picking things up where they left off in First Born. I feel like that intensity has been missing.

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  14. Agreed! Though overall, I think this season has been better paced than last season...

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  15. Yeah, you look at the other episodes she's written or gotten a story by credit on, and none of them are misogynistic or racist in the least. Hell, the thing she is being called a racist for isn't even racist, having porn DVD's called "Cabana Nights" and "Tequila Bun Rise" is not racist.


    It's really obnoxious and unwarranted.

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  16. At that point in the episode, they knew they were dealing with people, but yeah Dean did feel a bit of pity for them.


    But Sam straight shot the guy without remorse in "The Mentalists."

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  17. Yes, they have BOTH killed humans. Most recently (other than this time), Dean killed that guy in S7 - that guy who wanted to be possessed again. And Dean was also very gung ho about killing Gordon.

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  18. Yes, Dean knew those kids in the walls were humans. Plus, he really advocated killing Gordon. He wanted to kill Gordon in S2, and before Gordon turned in S3, Dean spoke to Sam about how they needed to kill Gordon.

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  19. The difference is that he struggled with it before - or had Sam to stop him from killing Gordon. He wasn't completely dispassionate about it as he is here.

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  20. I really liked this episode. I know I'd heard people comment on wanting a Slenderman episode or Modern Urban legends episode, and #Thinman gave us just that!


    I liked seeing the Ghostfacers, and was even happier when they both came out of the episode alive.
    Though the brother's relationship isn't being addressed as most would like it to, I did like the parallel done with Harry and Ed's relationship; I didn't really feel it helped with Sam and Dean's issues at all however. I really hope they haven't gone through all this just for a quick fix later on in the season.

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  21. But he didn't really struggle w/it though. He very much wanted to kill Gordon. Sam told him they couldn't kill Gordon. Dean also advocated killing Max. Again, he didn't struggle w/that decision at all. If a human is running around killing people, I think Dean is in favor of that human being killed just as they would kill a monster.

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  22. Hi, enjoyed reading the review, but the copy editor in me had to check a fact. It was Sam, not Dean, who brought up the cosplay. Yes, I'm a dweeb. :D

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  23. rather than being well-written, the episode was a herd of anvils falling - get the paralell? get the paralell? - and why would we care really, what happens to Ed and Harry, when they have always been used (to good effect) as comic foils to Sam and Dean, I had been hoping they'd help the bros shake off their season long drawn out angst fest, instead of merely replicating it, after all, most discussions between Ed and Harry were between themselves, and the bros never heard it - to get any hints. To me it shows that once again, Jenny can only riff off previous episodes, the writers have the bros stuck in a never ending wheel of hurt, and the series mytharc will be crammed into the last three eps with no buildup and no tension just like last season.

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  24. Klein doesn't have an original thought, her episodes riff off old episodes, instead of coming up with new concepts - for example, in season six souless Sam is outed by Roman Goddess Vesta, then she had angelpossessed Sam outed by Roman Goddess Veritas, and her depiction of a sex worker was offensive, because why would a woman who made sex videos, (as a means of employment) leave that work and declare herself celibate decide to drop all of it merely because some random guy shows up and compliments her on her porn work? Because working on porn as a job has anything to do with her personal relationships? Not to mention at the end of the episode, she regrets having not 'been as strong as she wanted to' by not resisting Dean? WTF, Klein sees Dean and Sam as Scooby Doo characters, with no depth, and she writes that way, note how her villains appear from nowhere and easily take down the Winchesters with tasers, all because 'the Winchesters couldn't see them?' sloppy bad writing.

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  25. I agree that the DVD titles and maracas aren't racist, but tasteless, and rather than really delve into why Dean might find porn as an escape, or give the chick an interesting take on celibacy, she went for the really awkward and out of character sex scene that was incongruous with the rest of the episode, and did end up being offensive and demeaning to both characters. She writes Dean as stupid and Sam as negligible. Plenty of people, like myself, who have watched the show since the pilot, who are invested in Sam and Dean - and also enjoy Cas, don't like her writing, it has nothing to do with fandom shipping.

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  26. Yeah, I did feel that Harry and Ed were misused in this episode, they work best as comic foils, and they could have shaken the bros out of their fight and helped them see the big picture, instead of only mimicing their angst, which has been too long and dragged out this season, intensifying my belief that the producers and writers believe spn can run on fumes while they play with their pet spin off. Sam and Dean are trapped in the cycle the show has created, with varying degrees of success in the method of the season, killing Amy, not looking for Dean, now letting an angel possess Sam - at least the last one had more promise, but it's been dragged out too long, too much filler this season, and we are all weary as Winchesters at this point. so much for Carver saying the boys would grow and mature and have more of a dynamic, and they've gotten rid of the little family too, Kevin a ghost, Charlie in Oz, Benny in Purgatory, Cas out there doing whatever it is they make up for him to do.

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  27. I don't think it's just people being upset about Dean and a woman.


    I don't expect Dean and Cas to be canon, and I'm not upset if Dean has sex with a woman.


    The way the scene was handled was creepy and seemed OOC for Dean, who is generally respectful toward women. I also thought that the whole thing with the maracas and the "fun with Hispanic stereotypes" type-dialogue was offputting and not needed. It just made her feel like a piece of meat, and we didn't see her POV afterward, aside from one quick scene of guilt in the cellar.


    If they wrote it that way to say Dean was breaking down, I'd believe it. But that didn't seem to be the intent.


    As for this episode, my problem was the dialogue more than anything else, once we move beyond some of the anvils. I just didn't think it was funny. It felt forced and harsh. The "Sad Times at Bitchmont High" line (I know it was a Ridgmont spoof but it just wasn't funny). The fat jokes. The "bitch" comments.


    I did like the opening scene, and i liked that the girl wasn't made fun of, as has happened in some other episodes.

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  28. There was also a lot of upset over Caged Heat because of Meg being naked and tortured.

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  29. I don't think they would have worked as comic foils at this point. It would have clashed badly with what the show is. It clashed badly in season 3, let alone now. I think they work best as seriocomic. It's just that this episode was so sour.


    I'm not sure why most of what you mention would involve planning for the spinoff. The show has had too much angst and written out too many recurring characters since season 4. There was no spinoff then.


    Not to mention that most of the poeple they've gotten rid of this season can come back. I think they're isolating Dean to break him apart. Hopefully some of these people will be back at some point.

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  30. really awesome review. i did like the episode but there were parts that annoyed me.
    would be super awesome if you guys could check out my review of the ep here: http://laurenmidler.wordpress.com/2014/03/06/anvils-and-thinmen/

    would love you all :D

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  31. I didn't watch last night's episode until this morning, cause I wasn't
    thrilled to see the Facers....(never was impressed with them and they
    annoyed me in the past), but after watching the episode this morning...I
    was bowled over! It was awesome for so many reasons....the parallels to
    Sam & Dean were MUCH needed I think for both brothers to see up
    close and personal...and yes, Dean's descent into darkness has
    definitely begun, though I think it started before last night's
    episode...it just was in our faces last night real close... I will post more...but I

    have to think more on it, and I have an appointment in a few minutes.


    I think what happened last night was essential to getting both brothers thinking
    long and hard about what they had vs. what they stand to lose...so I
    think things from here on out are going to be quite interesting to
    see...

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  32. I disagree - the angst fest is pointless only if its resolved without any character growth. If the writers are going to make some major changes in their relationships, then I'd be okay with them stretching out this fight even further.

    The fight between Sam and Dean cannot be simply "shaken off", especially not by a one-off comic relief. They cannot resolve it simply by saying "its stupid, let's get over it", like Kevin suggested. Seeing Ed and Harry fight over similar issues wouldn't have revealed any deep wisdom about themselves that would've magically fixed everything.

    The bros are stuck in a never-ending wheel of hurt because the basic aspects of their relationship never change. Every season we see them fight about something or the other and the problems are always set aside with excuses like "being together is still less crappy" or "we've bigger things to deal with and we need each-other for that". If this fight is resolved in that manner, we'd just be in the same position in season 10 where once again they'd fighting over some other secret. If the boys "shake it off and get over it" right now, they'll fall back into the old patterns, but if they actually work through it - however long it takes - that might take them in a better direction and we might actually see them trying to figure out a new brotherly dynamic.

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  33. I said OR had Sam to talk him down - which he doesn't now.

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  34. I didn't day they'd never killed humans. I've commented often recently on their having gotten away from their early mantra of leaving the humans to the cops.

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  35. Unfortunately, I'm traveling and had to go off of one viewing of the show. Hard to take notes and catch everything with no ability to check - which I usually do.

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  36. I think it's a bit funny that people will complain that the writers give no thought to canon and then turn around and complain that they are simply riffing on previous episodes. You can't have it both ways.

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  37. I've learned to ignore the Destiels. They are not going to be happy because Dean and Cas are never going to be lovers.

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  38. I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. Jenny Klein is good writer and among m favorites. This season, we have more writers who back track and look for history when they write. We stay within the canon with them.

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  39. Agreed! It's definitely an interesting episode. It didn't completely work for me as I wasn't 100% sure what I was supposed to think about some of what happened, but in general, I think it was a much needed step for the brothers.

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  40. I don't think they are going for the quick fix - and I'm glad about that. I agree that the parallels were interesting, but not terribly helpful, though I did like the final shot of the boys after Harry's comments. I think it got them thinking.

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  41. Definitely agree that they are isolating Dean for a reason. They moved away from the Ghostfacers being comic relief in season 3 - I haven't watched the webisodes, so I'm not sure what the tone was there or if that would shed any light on how we are supposed to take them here. I think the basic problem is moving them into being taken seriously - which apparently there is quite a bit of resistance to.

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  42. I loved the episode. I've always loved the Ghostfacers and was glad to see them back. I thought there was enough of their old tone to appreciate this newer look at them.

    I don't think this solved any issues for the brothers. Like Dean, I don't know what Sam wants or expects of Dean. I was surprised at Dean's execution of the bad guy. That's what it looked like; a deliberate and cold execution. I do think that without Sam to keep Dean grounded, we are going to see a darker Dean. I don't think the show will take him all that dark, but I am certainly ready for some action and losing the angsting.

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  43. I guess I'm saying that the writers shouldn't have used Dean killing a human as an indication that the Mark is affecting him b/c he has either advocated killing humans before or actually killed them.

    Now, some have commented on the coldness with which he killed that guy, and I think that would be more of a hint than anything else.

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  44. Completely agree! If nothing else that scene in which Ed asks Harry what he wants and Harry just stares at him is classic Dean and Sam.
    That completely detached look on Dean's face is what was truly scary for his mindset - but I saw a screen cap when looking for pics for this article of Dean's face in the final scene last week when he's listening to music and it's exactly the same - devoid of any emotion. He's shutting himself down to protect himself - which is a nice change as you say from the angsting - especially when there are those among us who don't think is was in the wrong... *ducks and runs for cover*
    I'm standing behind them not going for a quick fix with the brothers...

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  45. What I said in the review was: "we see him deliberately kill a human – something they have previously always avoided. Dean shows absolutely zero remorse"
    Deliberately is something I took away from the cold and remorseless look on his face. Whether that can be attributed to the mark or his isolation from Sam is something that will have to be explored in future episodes. Frankly, given the general themes in the episode, I'm leaning more toward this being a result of his isolation. I also said "avoided" so I'm not sure where everyone is getting that I said they never killed a human before... It was a long review so I guess I can't blame people for skimming...

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  46. Thanks for this great review. I'm really happy to see that I'm not the only one who actually liked this episode. It wasn't flawless by any means, but I found a lot in it that I enjoyed. That surprised me as I've never been much of a Ghostfacers fan. The parallels in the storyline were admittedly heavy-handed (yeah, it was raining anvils) and yet I thought Ed and Harry's story keenly brought our boys story into focus. Yesterday, I was typing a comment and couldn't quite think how to say that well, but your mirror imagery does it perfectly.



    Yes, I was troubled by the killing of Roger. It was so slow and deliberate. I turned to Heidie and asked her if she thought that there was some major significance to the way that scene was played. We discussed but came to no solid conclusion. I read somewhere that it was doubtful that it was significant because something like that would be way too incredibly subtle for our show so....I dunno. I think it had meaning but that's just me.


    The fact that I ended up feeling sorry for Ed and Harry at the end still amazes me.

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  47. "especially when there are those among us who don't think is was in the wrong... *ducks and runs for cover*" I'm ducking and covering with you because I tend to see Dean's side of this more than Sam's. I get why Sam was/is mad, but he's said some really mean things--things that I think he knows will cut Dean down to the bone and it just seems spiteful. Now granted, Dean has said some mean things to Sam over the years but c'mon... I just don't fully get Sam's mindset--is he truly saying that he'd rather be dead than alive? I don't think Dean kept Sam alive solely because he just didn't want to be alone as Sam posits. I think Dean kept him alive because (a) he's his brother and he loves him, and (b) Sam has a lot of good left to do here on earth.

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  48. Good review, thanks.
    There were two disturbing things about this parallel here:

    1. It was an insult to the brothers, esp. Dean to be mirrored like that. There are lies in both cases but they're nothing like the same thing. What Dean did was to keep his brother alive, bad thing w/ good intention that was purely out of love. What Ed did was practically fraud, he played Harry and prevent his happiness for his own selfish reason, where can you find a trace of love here?
    The next parallel they're going to present us is probably two partners who one of them got aids from the other b/c that person couldn't bear to lose the partner and so lied to him/her!! I mean it's not a matter of lying here, it's way beyond that. I really can't see any similarities here.

    2. What's Sam's problem? Personally I think it must be the lying, he must be angry that Dean didn't told him the truth, that he was possessed and it was the only way to heal him and he could reject the angel anytime. But all we've got so far is crap like "I should be dead", "you're selfish and do more harm than good" and just in episodes like this they bring up the lying. Is it another repeat of S8 that all along Sam was thinking he had let his brother down, but instead of saying it he said he wanted normal and acted like a complete jerk? Why can't they have a talk like adults? This lying was eating Dean alive through the first half and he would jump to apologize for it, but you wouldn't have that b/c you need the drama to be dragged until the final!!

    I wish instead of force-feeding us w/ these fake parallels, TPTB and all the writers sit around a table just for one day and actually THINK for once what they're trying to say here and how to clean this mess they've created.

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  49. and (c) the last thing alive Sam said to Dean was that he wanted to live! I'm sorry, but I'd take that over, oh well, I'm here with Death so I guess I have to go now or become a violent spirit...

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  50. Absolutely agree with you. I knew there were more points but my brain's on hiatus. lol

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  51. I agree! Except for your final comment - I'm still reserving judgment there. I'm hoping that we are supposed to see that Ed is a bad parallel for Dean - I'm hoping that Sam will see that too. Sam and Dean need to sit down and actually talk to each other for a change. At this point, it's impossible to make things worse! Dean needs to tell Sam that he wanted to stop the lies and Gadreel kept stopping him. Dean was duped! Is he too ashamed to admit it? At least Harry did talk to Ed eventually. Yeah. The writers need to show us more of their end game - I think everyone is getting impatient to see the flowering of this new, more mature relationship. I'm simply assuming that being partners not brothers isn't what they were talking about....

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  52. Thanks! I was totally expecting not to like this episode. But that look on Dean's face not significant??? What?!? It is totally significant. Our show can be subtle and Jensen's acting is always deliberate. I was actually struck by a screencap I saw while hunting for pics for this article. It was of Dean's face listening to music at the end of the last episode. His face is completely devoid of emotion. And we _know_ that that is a choice by Jensen because his face is SO expressive - same here. What does it mean? A couple of speculations. It may be tied to the effects of the mark of Cain or more likely for me, it's Dean's way of coping. He's shutting his emotions off to protect himself. I'm sure that's how he was able to endure torturing souls for 10 years in Hell.
    I think AJ and Travis really brought their A games to the episode - I really felt for them - and AJs OTP? Wow!

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  53. I have a different take on the 'lying' part. I thought the episode emphasized that it was the lying that Sam is mad at, not the possession and felt that was the biggest parallel in this episode.
    The problem I have with that is the Dean is a liar, a thief, a con man and a killer. So is Sam. So are all hunters. What has been some of the most poignant moments between the brothers in year's past has been when one or the other comes clean and tells the other the truth. That's one of the reasons I have trouble finding any sympathy for Sam at all this season.

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  54. I think that's why it doesn't make sense for the lying to be the big problem - though I think you could be right. But Ed also takes away Harry's ability to self-determine his own path - I don't really see what Ed and Dean did as equivalent, but I still think we are asked to see the parallel. They really haven't done a good job with Sam's motivation. Their attempt at the more mature relationship between the brothers really appears to have Sam acting like a petulant child....

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  55. I agree with Ginger in that this episode seemed to emphasize that Sam was more mad at Dean for lying and not the angelic possession part. And that is the problem I have with it - that was not the emphasis before.



    Until now, they were doing fine with Sam's motivation. They didn't lay those out in completely unambiguous terms, but the gist of it seemed to be that Sam did not appreciate Dean's attitude of "If its for saving Sam, its justifiable". If they stick with that attitude for Sam, then he does not come off as a petulant child and their relationship can grow into a mature one.



    Yes, lying and keeping secrets is bad but they are not the root of the problem between them - in fact, they've become bit of a norm. And the bros were able to get past those a bit more easily.



    My fear is that after spending a couple of episodes laying out the real issue between them, they might end up retconning it and making it all about Dean keeping a secret just to provide an easy fix for the relationship which is what a lot of fans seem to want.

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  56. While the emphasis in this episode was on lying, I don't think that has to mean they are dropping Sam's main issue about Dean making decisions for him. After all, that was the issue between Ed and Harry to - not just the lie but what they were lying about. However, I would agree with both Sam and Dean that keeping secrets is not good and has always ended up badly for them.

    God help the writers if they ever try to please one group of fans. I'm betting they realize that is a no win situation. That said, my only fear is that they'll do what they did last season and suddenly have Sam declare his entire life he's been failing Dean and therefore deserves to die.. um.. what? That was a retcon...

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  57. She didn't write "Caged Heat" though, she only has a story by credit. Do people feel the same way about Kripke, because had a naked torture scene in "Heaven and Hell" with Ruby? And he actually wrote that episode.

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  58. He was respectful, he attempt to make a move and when he she was crying about her missing friends, he put the brakes and prayed with her. Cut to later and he's about to leave, then he has a fanboy moment and basically reassures her that she doesn't anything to be ashamed about, and then she makes the first move.


    OOC for Dean? Are we forgetting this is the same Dean that showed up on Lisa's steps after years expecting sex? Or more recently in season 7 where he lies to the Amazon about being successful to get laid?


    About the two fat jokes (well one fat joke, he describes the one Ghostfacer as fat), are you fat? Because I am overweight, and I can tell I don't give two shits if show, any show, makes a fat joke.

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  59. This is a show where one of the longest running gags is Busty Asian Beauties and that Dean watches hentai. Maracas cover boobs on a porn cover is the furthest thing from tasteless on this show.

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  60. "While the emphasis in this episode was on lying, I don't think that has
    to mean they are dropping Sam's main issue about Dean making decisions
    for him."

    I hope so - I really do. But it wouldn't be the first time they've pulled something like that.


    "That said, my only fear is that they'll do what they did last season and
    suddenly have Sam declare his entire life he's been failing Dean and
    therefore deserves to die.. um.. what? That was a retcon..."



    I'm not so sure about that. I see it as a culmination of years of built up guilt and regrets.



    A lot of times the show is written as if once the major crisis affecting them is over, whatever they went through to resolve it is simply erased. Whatever terrible, traumatic events they experienced are simply forgotten. That the world goes on as before and their relationship is restored to status quo and nothing changes about the job they do.



    However, if you look a little deeper, you'll see the subtle changes made in the characterizations - brought masterfully to life by both Jensen and Jared - which show exactly how much they've been through. One of my complaints about this episode was that Ed and Harry were the same bumbling idiots we saw back in season 1 - and so I rewatched the episode "Hell House" and what struck me most was how different Sam and Dean are now. Looking at their season 1 versions, you can't help but think "you guys think you have issues now, you have no idea what's coming your way". They can no longer pull pranks on each-other and laugh heartily about it and their childhood memories are regarded with wistful nostalgia. They are no longer capable of feeling happy like they were back in season 1.



    So, when Sam declares that he has been failing Dean his entire life - I believe him. More to the point, I believe that he truly believes it. Sam failed to save Dean from his deal betrayed him for a demon, let Lucifer free, acted horribly when he was soulless and abandoned him in Purgatory - how much of that is actually Sam's fault and how much he has made up for can be debated, but there is no doubt in my mind that Sam believes all of it to be his fault and still feels a great deal of guilt about them. He may bury it all deep inside and carry on as if everything was normal because he can't do anything about it now, but he still carries it all. And all of it coming out at a moment like that doesn't seem like a retcon.

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  61. You see, I even have a problem with the 'Dean making decisions' for Sam, and that is why I think the entire story is dishonest. Since the Pilot, Dean has let Sam go or do as he pleases. He may bitch about it, but it has ALWAYS been Sam that choosing 'We've got work to do,' or return to Dean whenever he has left. I am still not over Fallen Idols, with Sam telling Dean he went with Ruby because Dean wouldn't let him grow up, and Dean accepted that BS and gave into Sam. I cannot remember a time when Dean didn't listen to Sam (when Sam was honest) and changed his behavior.
    Honestly, I thought Sam had reached some level of maturity in 8.23 when he finally acknowledged his feelings about letting Dean down and; there again, Dean gave Sam what he needed -- the assurance that Sam would always be No. 1, which was the hope Sam needed. Now to be ticked off because Dean gave him life and hope again is dishonest...and, as I said, Sam has no moral high ground on the lying part.
    I am not bashing Sam in saying the above. What I am saying is that I find the whole story dishonest and; honestly, I dread to see what Carver's idea of all grown up Winchesters is. Besides that, the Winchester story is tedious and way too drug out. Personally, I hope to never have to see a nighttime soap about teenage angst on Supernatural again.

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  62. Sam's Problem: I think we've more to go on that what you gave here. Go through their conversations again at the ends of "Sharp Teeth" and "The Purge". Sam's attitude was confusing in the beginning but it seems much clearer after that.



    Dean sees Sam as his protectorate - someone who should be protected at any cost. Sam believes that in some cases the cost is too high - the events at the beginning of the season being one of those.



    Despite this episode, I don't think lying is the big issue here because they've lied to each-other before and gotten over it.



    And they have talked about it like adults - but even adults can reach an impasse. They've both made their positions clear - Dean insists that he made the right choice in saving Sam but the choice had some very unfortunate consequences for which he shoulders the blame entirely. Sam insists that the choice to save him under those circumstances itself was the wrong one. There maybe other issues thrown into the mix, but that is the big one.



    I don't think this is something they can just talk out. They've said all there is to be said. Dean is sorry about the lying and I think Sam knows Dean is sorry and Dean knows that Sam knows. None of that changes the basic thing they disagree about.



    What will change this situation, however, is something major happening. Not just seeing their lives mirrored in the week's guest stars or "get over it" speeches by friends - but some event that affects them on a personal level. Maybe something will happen that'll make Dean realize that letting his brother die would've been the right choice (though I really hope that doesn't happen). Or maybe something that will convince Sam that his being alive is better on the whole. Or something that'll trigger a completely new brotherly dynamic. That's the one I'm rooting for.


    Ofcourse, the writers could always just sweep it all under the rug and pretend the fight never happened.

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  63. I've noticed there is a massive freak out going on on Twitter, because Misha is only in 11 episodes, he hasn't been announced as a regular for season 10. It's all rather fascinating and funny.

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  64. Thank you! This is exactly my take on it.

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  65. And of course, this could be quite strategic. Easier to believe he's in peril if he's possibly not on the show next year, right? He's likely missing 3 episodes just because of directing too. In the end, I'm sure it's just a negotiation... And I'm getting Misha's happy cuz he gets paid anyway!

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  66. Sorry, that's just not Sam as I see him as evidenced by the show. That's based on a close reading of the show for nine seasons.

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  67. I agree with you - especially in this instance, it's like any loved one making a decision on whether to resuscitate their loved one - it's not the same thing. Sam saying that he felt he'd let Dean down his whole life just felt like it came out of left field for me. If he was really being mature, he'd take into consideration that killing himself to make up for that would be the biggest thing he could ever do to let his brother down and punish him. I agree - let's move on.

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  68. Thoughtful and interesting review. I thought the Sam/Dean-Harry/Ed parallel was maybe laid on a bit thick, but there was some interesting stuff here, for sure. I've always been a Ghostfacers fan, even from their first appearance. And Thinman was pretty creepy-looking ,despite being a "Scooby-Doo"-style monster (as Ed pointed out!)

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  69. I liked the childhood memory, to me though it wasn't Dean leading Sam into danger but a happy memory that was also a reminder that they are always have been the same two people who want different things even when doing the same task. Even back when they were kids and they have always sucked at really communicating to each other when it counts even when they know they'd have each others backs.

    Dean at nine was playing Superman and Batman, like he said everyone knows that Batman can't fly, so why at nine when Sam was dressed up as batman would he think the kid would want to jump? He was superman, his character could fly, everyone knew Batman couldn't do that and Sam was Batman. Sam on the other hand at 5 was playing superheroes with his big brother. He and Dean were in costumes so, why couldn't they do the same thing? Both thoughts are in the right just taken from different angles and could have been avoided if Dean didn't assume and Sam was clear about what he was thinking. But even back then Dean would go into overdrive to help his little brother when he had to, just like Sam knew that Dean would try and fix things because what kid jumps from a roof when playing if he doesn't feel safe enough to do it.

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