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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

Supernatural - Episode 9.12 - Sharp Teeth - Promotional Photos

28 Jan 2014

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Thanks to Elena for the heads up.

Here are the original ones.

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108 comments:

  1. Elena Wonderland27 January 2014 at 18:15

    Seems like Dean will have to come to Sam's rescue! I really want see them talk things out ... I can't stand it when they're fighting :'( It's sad ... But I know they're not gonna be ok for quite a lot of time according to recent spoilers.

    ReplyDelete
  2. browniegirl2727 January 2014 at 18:17

    Dean and scruff: a good combination. I wonder if we'll start to seeing any effects from the mark.

    ReplyDelete
  3. tvmonkey27 January 2014 at 18:26

    -Kinda looks like Garth has found a home/family of sorts
    -I wonder if they are actually evil or just reacting to be threatened?
    -will Dean end up killing something that doesn't deserve killing to showcase his new killer arc, or would that be too soon for them to go down the 'oh no the Mark of Cain is making Dean dark' route?
    -Will Sam and Dean be hostile towards each other?
    -will Dean and Garth have a heart to heart?
    -will the writers once again write Sam as a plot device to service someone elses storyline?
    -will Sam be show to be an incompetent hunter?
    -will Sam get knocked out at some point to keep him out of a chunk of the episode?

    ReplyDelete
  4. maloose27 January 2014 at 18:43

    Yes, seems that way.

    BTW what happened to our sneak peek this week?! And the BTS pics here are fewer than normal!

    ReplyDelete
  5. klutzy_girl27 January 2014 at 18:59

    Garth! Can't wait for him.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Elena Wonderland27 January 2014 at 19:12

    I know, it's so annoying. It should have out for many days now ... The episode's tomorrow for Christ's sake!!!

    ReplyDelete
  7. chris68427 January 2014 at 19:33

    We have ...
    - Sam stands quietly listening to guest's story
    - Garth has meaningful conversation with Dean
    - The same Sam who once beheaded Gordon with a piece of wire is in need of rescuing by sharp fanged monster
    - Dean rescues Sam


    The only thing that's missing here is the scene showing Sam thanking Dean for saving him and apologizing for getting mad at him.


    Yep, sounds like an Adam Glass episode.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Kate M27 January 2014 at 19:59

    I don't understand some comments here. People are angry just because Sam is the one who needs saving? It's not like it never happened to Dean. Just this season we had that episode where Sam teamed up with Jody to save Dean.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Emily27 January 2014 at 20:18

    Maybe because it happens in almost every episode.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Peter J427 January 2014 at 21:53

    I don't really remember it happening much this season either. He had to save Sam from Gadreel, but then, he was the one who put Gadreel in there in the first place.

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  11. Peter J427 January 2014 at 21:54

    "Meaningful" Garth conversations tend to involve him shaming and moralizing people he barely knows. He shamed Dean into trying to get over any animosity he felt about Sam not looking for him or for Kevin. If we're lucky he won't end up shaming anyone in this episode.


    Glass wrote episodes last season where Dean had to save Sam, but in Bad Boys, they were both in danger and had to work together to get the ghost to leave.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Peter J427 January 2014 at 21:55

    I just hope this isn't going to involve yet another woman being killed.

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  13. maloose27 January 2014 at 22:00

    A few hours before they publish these pics, I went to their facebook and ask about it on the wall, mind you (which was removed right away). Maybe we should all go to their FB or twitter and annoy the hell out of them if they dare to play w/ fans' feelings ever again! LOL

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  14. Kate M27 January 2014 at 22:02

    I get what you're trying to say, but for me I'm glad they won't be dragging this for too long. I'm just sick of this whole not talking to each other. I know Sam has right to be angry, but to be honest I don't know what else could Dean do. He was raised to protect Sam, he won't ever give up on him. He should have let him die? Sam said he wanted to die, but just season ago- Sam was the one to do the trials because he wanted to live. So of course Dean wouldn't let him go. I don't know what else should Dean do, he's definitely sorry for what he did. Dean has always forgiven Sam, so maybe Sam can forgive Dean for a change, it would be very mature thing to do. Sam has right to be angry, but this is Supernatural they just can't have brothers separated for too long or fans will go crazy.

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  15. sue27 January 2014 at 22:11

    This is what boggles my mind as cass pointed out Dean and Sam choose each other remember and then boom sam in coma. So Sam tells Dean about the light and wants to not close the gates. Everything the whole car thing that went on inside of Sam's head so how is dean going to know other then an angel telling him sam wants to die. Granted that is only thing so its like well here is sam saying he wants to live show me the light end of this life and now he wants to die. If I were Dean I would be getting head spins with does he want to die or live. Sam should have said something before hand if he was getting worse for dean to let him go. JMO

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  16. chris68427 January 2014 at 22:16

    I would have been happy if they had never gone down this path, but since they did, it has to play out.


    What Dean could have done - and should have done - is respect Sam's wishes even if that means suffering the loss of a loved one. People do it all of the time in the case of terminal illnesses. It's painful but it's growth.


    What Sam chose a year ago, five years ago, or three months ago isn't relevant. The point is that Dean didn't save Sam because he believed Sam wanted to live. Dean believed Sam would choose to die rather than be kept alive through Supernatural means so he lied to Sam for months to prevent Sam from being allowed to exercise a choice on what to do with his own body and life.


    Sam forgives Dean all of the time. Otherwise Sam would still be constantly reminding Dean that Dean brought Sam back to life in season 2 with a deal with a demon, even though Dean had resented the exact same thing when John had done it to him. Sam would be reminding Dean that Dean killed Amy and then lied to Sam about it, even though Sam had asked Dean to trust him where Amy was concerned. Sam would be reminding Dean that Dean pretended to be Amelia in danger to stop Sam from going after Benny for killing Martin. Being angry with someone for a short while isn't the same thing as never forgiving them, and I would say Sam has been much better about forgiving and moving on than Dean, who tends to dwell on offenses that happened years before.

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  17. maloose27 January 2014 at 22:16

    I don't intend to disagree w/ you here, but 'rape'?!!! Personally I think you use this word too lightly, rape is one of most inhuman and horrible things I can imagine, let alone being committed by one's father....

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  18. chris68427 January 2014 at 22:18

    May I ask you why you think Dean lied to Sam if Dean thought that there was a good chance Sam might choose to let Gadreel heal him? The only reason to lie would be because he thought Sam would say no.

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  19. chris68427 January 2014 at 22:20

    It's a loaded word, but can you think of a better analogy for possession - where someone loses control over their own body to an unwelcome invader and is forced to do things they would find repugnant?

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  20. Kate M27 January 2014 at 22:28

    Well I'm not going to name all the time Sam was wrong. Dean made a deal, okay, but Sam tried to make a deal too.It didn't work out. I'm not making excuses for Dean, but don't try to make it seem like Sam is a saint. Both of them have flaws, and made some terrible decisions. When Sam wanted to die, he was already in coma, he didn't say something like If something goes wrong, let me die. If the roles would be reversed. Do you think Sam would let Dean die? Like in In my time of dying, Dean was in coma, and Sam was angry at John, because he wasn't trying. I just think Sam would do exactly the same thing as Dean did. I won't even comment on Amy situation, because it was one of the worst "feud" they ever had. Dean is a hunter, Amy was a monster. For Sam it was too personal and he didn't think clearly, so Dean took care of it.

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  21. sharonally27 January 2014 at 22:28

    This was not on Sam nothing regardless of any circumstances gave Dean the right to do what he did . Sam belongs to Sam not anybody else this is not poor Dean what was he supposed to do , he loves Sam so much. He choose what he wanted knowing full well the last thing on this planet Sam would want is to be possessed by a Supernatural creature and then end up hurting others because of it .

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  22. maloose27 January 2014 at 22:29

    Hypnotism, mind control, ... anything less violating, humiliating, repulsive, inhuman and unimaginably horrible than 'rape'.

    ReplyDelete
  23. chris68427 January 2014 at 22:33

    I didn't say Sam never makes bad decisions or is a saint. You made a comment, "Dean has always forgiven Sam, so maybe Sam can forgive Dean for a change," and my comment was in response to this assertion that Dean forgives Sam but Sam doesn't forgive Dean.


    I'm starting to repeat myself here, but I don't have a problem with Dean making a decision to save Sam if Dean didn't know what Sam would want. My problem was with him repeatedly lying to Sam to rob Sam of his choice.


    Agree to disagree about Amy because that is opening up a whole different can of worms that I don't have time or the will to debate.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Kate M27 January 2014 at 22:44

    Well I'm sorry I totally forgotten about that comment. For example I hated when Sam was drinking demon blood, and then in fifth season he was acting like Dean forced him to work with Ruby (His whole speech in Fallen idols). I can't remember when Sam ever apologized to Dean either. It's always like Dean can't be angry at Sam either. Because someone tells him to let it go - like Bobby or Garth. So I don't think it's always just Sam who has to forgive very quickly. I think it's just the was Supernatural is.

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  25. chris68427 January 2014 at 22:48

    If hypnotism or mind control is done without the person's knowledge or consent and involves making the person do things like killing someone they care about, then I could agree those would be valid comparisons to what happened here.


    But the point of my original comment was suggesting that the best analogy for using guilt to silence and discredit a victim's feelings that I could think of was in an instance of rape. And yes, I chose parental rape since it is more common for the victim to be guilted into silence, than in the case of a random crime.

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  26. Emily27 January 2014 at 23:00

    He was knocked out in 9x02, 9x03, 9x04, and 9x05. Dean also made really stupid excuses that Sam should have easily seen as lies, but that's another matter. Sam didn't even do much when he was with Jody in 9x08. He was hit by the monster and Jody saved the day after being completely tied down and badly injured. He was in a coma in 9x01, strapped to a chair in 9x10, and had the whole angel grace thing done in 9x11.


    It's one thing for him to kick some serious butt and get injured in the process, but Sam gets knocked out after being punched once or thrown into something and then that's it for him. They make him look so stupid and weak lately.

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  27. maloose27 January 2014 at 23:01

    Yes, I got your point, but still I think 'rape' is too meaningful and sensitive to be used this lightly and for this subject. I remember I read an article of you in which you used this it many times, and it's your choice of word obviously, but I think it's better you reconsider it.

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  28. Kate M27 January 2014 at 23:08

    I agree, but they didn't show us Dean being super strong either. It was like both of them were made weak so Gadreel can show off. So this season it wasn't exactly Dean being the one who saved the situation. And I don't think Sam was stupid, it was more like he was still weak from trials. Weak yes, but not stupid.

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  29. chris68427 January 2014 at 23:16

    I agree it's a loaded word, and I didn't use it lightly. I wouldn't use it lightly. The season 7 Lucifer hallucinations were full of rape insinuations, so it's something the writers were obviously aware of too - in terms of both the time in the pit as well as the subcontext of everything that had happened to Sam before that point.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Emily27 January 2014 at 23:19

    Yeah, Dean really hasn't been the greatest hunter recently either (except for this last episode thank God), but Sam really has been kind of stupid. He questions Dean about this monster asking him what he is or another one pointing out there's something off about his organs or whatever. However, he doesn't think about the fact that there's blood on his neck and no wound at all. I get that Gadreel tricked him and changed his memories, but there's only so far they can go with that. Also, that whole thing with the witch killing Charlie. Sam doesn't question that he and Charlie were "zapped", but didn't die. He drops the "Who's Zeke?" comment later and doesn't seem to remember that it happened. There's so many hints that there's something off, but he doesn't seem to have a clue or care what's going on.

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  31. Kate M27 January 2014 at 23:25

    I think Gadreel was making sure that Sam won't notice. Maybe it was just him playing with Sam's mind. And if no,then you're right Sam is pretty stupid, and Dean too with his idiotic excuses. Winchester logic at its finest.

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  32. Emily27 January 2014 at 23:31

    Exactly, then they've both been pretty weak and stupid. Last week's episode Dean just accepts the mark of Cain without even wanting to hear what the great burden is. These past two episodes have been great, but they always do this. They have two great episodes and then drop the ball afterwards.

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  33. Lisa27 January 2014 at 23:49

    I'm thinking that they thought a sneak peek would be too spoilery? They don't want to spoil any of the brother stuff because they're fighting and whatever's going on with Garth is too spoilery too? I have nothing other than that honestly.

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  34. Lisa27 January 2014 at 23:50

    Hahaha. That werewolf chick is as good as dead.

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  35. Lisa27 January 2014 at 23:53

    Let's just be honest here, Carver doesn't GAF about Sam. He's a plot device to him. There will be no more character development coming from him because he's barely even a character anymore. Sad, really.

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  36. CP27 January 2014 at 23:55

    You know it's Adam Glass writing when Garth shows up. Ack. He and his character can leave at any time.

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  37. CP27 January 2014 at 23:57

    There's always a scene that isn't too spoilery. It's just lazy not to release one.

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  38. Lisa27 January 2014 at 23:57

    Something foreign was in Sam's body against his will. That's some pretty strong rape connotations right there. So yes, rape is a pretty close analogy for what happened to him.

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  39. Lisa28 January 2014 at 00:00

    Season 7 was loaded with rape insinuations coming from Hallucifer. Since that was Sam's own mind conjuring up the image of Lucifer to represent his time in the cage, Sam himself must feel that he was violated on that level. So Dean allowing Gadreel to possess him is pretty freaking major I would think. Regardless, like I said above, a foreign entity was inside of Sam's body without his consent. That's a very strong rape connotation no matter how you look at it.

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  40. Lisa28 January 2014 at 00:06

    Dean will be extra angry in this one too because that's how Glass tends to write him. Pissed off Dean/Damsel Sam Wiseman/Garth. Yeah. Totally sounds like an Adam Glass episode.

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  41. Hellboy28 January 2014 at 00:11

    A handful of episodes in which those things happen is not indicative of how this episode will be.

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  42. Lisa28 January 2014 at 00:13

    The synopsis for the episode describes Dean as taking out Kevin's death on Garth for abandoning him. Sam is tied up in the promo stills. That's two out of the three criteria for an Adam Glass penned episode.

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  43. Hellboy28 January 2014 at 00:14

    There have been probably three episodes in which Dean has had to save Sam, and two in which Sam has saved Dean from Glass.

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  44. Aline28 January 2014 at 00:19

    This is the most annoying thing, Dean, over seasons, does things that mess Sam up, violates his free will, breaks his trust, belittles him etc and Sam is allowed, at most, an episode to show his anger (if he's allowed to show it at all. Most times he's expected to just get over it). Dean holds things against Sam for months, years. When he's pissed at Sam about something he never misses as opportunity to beat him down with what he's done. Even after Sam has atoned as much as he can Dean still brings what Sam did up as his greatest sins. Can Sam ever atone enough to get true, not surface, forgiveness from Dean?

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  45. Hellboy28 January 2014 at 00:25

    3 episodes out of 11 from Glass in which Dean has saved Sam, 2 if you count Krissy killing the Vetala "Adventures in Babysittting." And he's written 2 episode where Sam has come to Dean's rescue.


    I don't know where people are getting this idea that Sam has been dumbed down, because he hasn't.

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  46. Aline28 January 2014 at 00:27

    Last season Dean was angry with Sam for the most of ten episodes. In season 5 it was up until episode 5, and even after that he brought up what Sam did intermittently. In Fallen Idols Sam said that one of the reasons he went with Ruby was to get away from Dean. 'One of the...', that's a far cry from 'forced him to'.


    Also, look at Dean's behaviour in that episode. In the episode prior to that Dean wanted Sam back as his partner, but in this episode it was back to keeping a leash around his neck, making decisions for him, telling him he was wrong etc. That's certainly not a partnership. That's one man and his subordinate and that was a pattern of behaviour that Dean had to change if he wanted to make the partnership work. Sam was making changes. He was being wholly forthcoming, he was doing what Dean said, but Dean also had to do something.

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  47. Miss Supernatural28 January 2014 at 00:30

    Some of the stuff you just accused Dean, was IMO, either in Sam's hands, or they're equally at fault, like Martin's death. Dean used Amelia, yes, but Martin died because Sam left him behind after dragging him, a crazy hunter, to the case.



    Anyway.... I agree that both of them forgive each other, though it takes Dean a while. And since I won't never, ever want Sammy dead, I already forgave Dean for what he did. Not to say it was right. I understand your point and Sam's hurt. I just think he did what he did to save Sam and I hope Sam will forgive him with time.

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  48. Miss Supernatural28 January 2014 at 00:38

    Last season Dean was hurt because Sam didn't try to look for him, something that I'll never forgive Carver and the writers for. The solution, though, wasn't Sam explaining his reasons or maybe saying "I'm sorry it hurt you Dean" like some fans expected (I wanted the reasons and his POV). It was Sam telling Dean that he had to move on or that he would leave him. It never solved anything and it made the hurt still there.

    LOL, I tent to pretend that that episode didn't exist, it was too much out of character things going on there, tbh. Dean acting the way you described with Sam, wanting to leave before it was a sure thing the hunt was done.... Ugh, I hate that episode, but I think the point of it was to "explain" why Sam acted the way he did and what Dean would have to do. Well, it worked.

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  49. Hellboy28 January 2014 at 00:40

    Yeah, Dean definetly takes after John, in that he'll hold a grudge for a bit,

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  50. chris68428 January 2014 at 00:42

    I think you misread my comment. I wasn't accusing Dean of being responsible for Martin's death. I was accusing Dean of texting Sam pretending to be Amelia to keep him from going after Benny. I was saying the reason Sam would go after Benny was because Benny killed Martin.


    I hope they forgive each other eventually too, or else this is going to turn into a very depressing show. My point was that Sam needs to be allowed to be get mad for a while and they need to hash things out as equals. If the severity of what was done is dismissed with, "well Dean just loves him too much," or "Sam owes him," then it's sending a disturbing message that is just too close to real-life rationalizations of abusive behavior to be at all comfortable.

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  51. Lisa28 January 2014 at 00:48

    Carver screwed the pooch on Sam's entire flashback storyline last season and assassinated Sam's character in the process. They had originally intended to resolve it by explaining that some of his memories were faulty the way Dean's Purgatory flashbacks were but kept things literal instead. The flashbacks were supposed to go until episode 13 but the format was so unpopular that they just dropped them altogether. But there were clues in Sam's flashbacks that point to him being not all there in the head. Carver kept advertising the flashbacks as being about reality vs. perception and that we weren't supposed to be taking them at face value. I wrote some serious meta about it a few days ago in another post but I can't even get into all of that again. Bottom line is we got to see Dean's reality vs. perception resolution through Castiel's POV but never got to see Sam's side of it which sucks.

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  52. Miss Supernatural28 January 2014 at 00:50

    "I think you misread my comment. I was saying the reason Sam would go after Benny was because Benny killed Martin."

    I apologize, then. :)

    Maybe I still am, though? Because Sam didn't go after Benny because he killed Martin. They were going to kill Benny together and Sam didn't know Martin was dead until Dean told him in the next episode? I'm sorry, I'm just trying to understand your comment *a bit ashamed*. You mean that Sam would go to kill Benny later if he hadn't forgiven Dean?

    I understand it might take a while, but please not too long. I hate to see them at odds. I hated it past seasons and I hate it now, no matter which brother is mad. :(

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  53. chris68428 January 2014 at 00:56

    It's been a while since I've watched the episode, and I guess I messed the timeline in my response. You're right. Sam and Martin were going after Benny before Benny killed Martin, and Dean sent Sam the text then. They were going after Benny because they thought Benny was killing people.


    Just delete "for killing Martin" in your head in my original comment. :)

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  54. Miss Supernatural28 January 2014 at 00:56

    Couldn't agree more about them assassinating Sam's character. Like I said, I will never forgive the writers for what they did.



    I wish I could believe it, Lisa and I read some really awesome metas about it. But I'm not sure. Carver was always straight forward saying Sam did what he did because it was the mature thing to do and later, how it was fuel to the brothers conflict, which it did, sadly.



    If that was really their intent, BOOOOOOO to them, even more. The twist would be great and Sam's character and the brothers relationship, preserved.

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  55. Miss Supernatural28 January 2014 at 00:57

    Thanks. Done. :o)

    (And honestly, I can't blame you. I never rewatched the episode)

    ReplyDelete
  56. Lisa28 January 2014 at 01:18

    He said that at Comic-Con about Sam being mature, yes. But once the episodes started airing and interviewers started asking questions about the flashbacks he started dropping hints that not all was what it seemed, in either of their flashbacks. Carver sucks at giving interviews though but I do think they intended on showing a parallel between Dean's faulty memories to Sam's as well. Otherwise why would Carver bother telling people about the reality vs. perception BS? IDK. The theories at the time were that this Amelia chick didn't even really exist and quite honestly I kind of wished it had ended up being the case because that storyline sucked donkey balls.

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  57. Miss Supernatural28 January 2014 at 01:27

    Yeah, I remember that. I also remember the WinchesterBros podcast where Jim Michaels said that the person near the house was Naomi, but we never found out explicitly.

    Totally agree with you. And it would have made so much sense, especially after the episode 8. I don't know if they really dropped it, if they just played with us or if they decided to not to do it because some fans figured it out or what. Just that it would have been so much better. I was so sad, so frustrated when it was all for real.

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  58. Back In Black Tricksteress 9528 January 2014 at 02:46

    Looks sharp ;)

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  59. lala228 January 2014 at 04:36

    Sam has been extra stupid this year. At 12-yrs old, he couldn't read the sign outside of the boys' home to know Dean was at a boys' home. He was too busy playing w/toy planes outside the car window like a moron!



    He also didn't question why he had a ridiculous amount of blood on his collar/shirt after that incident w/the British guy who ate animals.

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  60. CyanaT28 January 2014 at 04:43

    Dont expect on the Sam front in this one.
    You expecting Glass to do something different with Sam? Glass eps frequently feature Sam doing one or more of the following: 1) Not interacting much with major guest stars 2) get tied up and .or taken out of the action easily because for the last several seasons Glass writes Sam needing to saved by Dean or one of Glass's 'Sues' 3) either acting like a total DBag or far, far too mild mannered.



    Your Dean specs are interesting - if the show is going for a 'Dark Dean' arc maybe they'll have him kill a 'monster' who doesn't need killing like he told Sam at the end of Bloodlust.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Donna C28 January 2014 at 04:56

    -The only thing that's missing here is the scene showing Sam thanking Dean for saving him and apologizing for getting mad at him.-


    You say that like it won't happen.

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  62. Donna C28 January 2014 at 04:58

    Vampires .... why did it have to be VAMPIRES? Carver and Co., vampires are so five years ago! Gimme some real zombies or some werewolves or something! They're what's IN - uh, The Walking Dead and Teen Wolf?. Get your collective finger on the pulse of the horror genre, for crap's sake.

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  63. chris68428 January 2014 at 05:36

    No, I meant that I'm expecting it. It's missing because it's not featured in the photos.

    ReplyDelete
  64. isleofskye28 January 2014 at 07:28

    Sam comes off as an idiot, instead of the brainy/reaserch/ Stanford guy he's supposed to be. The Sam playing with toys was just ridiculous!
    They have taken all of Sam's characteristics, all that made Sam Sam, and dealt them out to random guest stars 'Charlie/the most intelligent in the room' for example.
    I am even more convinced that the writers only watch a past episode when the need some back info,( if they even do that! ) and they don't understand in the least what makes these two brothers tick.

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  65. Elena Wonderland28 January 2014 at 07:45

    they are werewolves

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  66. Lisa28 January 2014 at 08:28

    Episodes are shot 4-5 episodes in advance. Carver had been saying right out of the gate last season that the flashbacks would cover the first 13 episodes of the season, possibly even longer than that.

    Taken from an interview with Collider:

    "COLLIDER:



    How long will you be using flashbacks? Will that be a season-long thing, or just for a few episodes?

    CARVER:
    The flashbacks play heaviest in the first 13 episodes, and I say that
    with the small caveat that we’re working our way through the second half
    now. But, it feels like they’ll probably play heaviest in the first 13. They’re not in every episode, but where appropriate.and I say that with the small caveat that we’re working our way through the second half now. But, it feels like they’ll probably play heaviest in the first 13. They’re not in every episode, but where appropriate."

    From the sounds of that interview, the negative response had already started to filter in at that point and that's why he made mention of there being a caveat about them not lasting any longer than the first 13 episodes. The backlash from the fans was so negative that they ended up reworking the existing scripts to begin phasing the flashbacks out even earlier than anticipated. The current storylines were expanded and by episode 8 the flashbacks were wrapped up completely. There was a lot of talk around this time last season about an exciting new storyline that would end up essentially rebooting the entire season, and that episode ended up being As Time Goes By, which was episode 12.



    So take from that what you will, I also based some of my info off of a person claiming ITK knowledge and they basically confirmed that the format was a bust, the negative feedback was overwhelming and that's why it was dropped. Sam's storyline was supposed to have a big revelation along the same lines as Dean's did concerning faulty memories but I guess when they dropped the flashback storylines altogether they just decided to keep it as a literal storyline and have him choose to recommit to hunting instead of choosing to stay with Amelia. Which is BS because it really, really painted Sam in a negative light when all was said and done.

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  67. Hellboy28 January 2014 at 09:05

    Garth is a creation of Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin, not Glass.

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  68. isleofskye28 January 2014 at 09:07

    Thanks. Interesting.
    x
    Yeah, the flash back arcs were blocked rather abruptly, so things probably did play out as you illustrate.
    Sam was certainly trashed by the 'not-looking/ Amelia' arc and a terrible disservice was done to the character.
    x
    However,even if the flashbacks had continued, I doubt anything good would have come for Sam. Ultimately Dean's perception, which we did get to see, was simply that he had believed it was his fault that he had left Castiel in Purgatory, while it was Casiel who had held back. Nothing life -shaking!
    So Sam's perception was probably that instead of running over a dog, he hit a cat! :)

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  69. isleofskye28 January 2014 at 09:25

    Thanks for putting me right. Could be I was confused with Krissy. Is she the one who belongs to Glass?

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  70. Lisa28 January 2014 at 09:35

    LOL at him hitting a cat! I kind of feel as if they were strongly hinting that his idyllic romance with Amelia was a hell of a lot more dysfunctional than it actually was and that maybe Sam wasn't as put together emotionally as we were led to believe. Perhaps the revelation would have shown him to be more along the lines of how he was in season 4 in I Know What You Did Last Summer. I say this because his and Amelia's hotel room looked like a freaking liquor store with all the empty bottles of booze laying around, plus there were a few references to suicidal behavior on Sam's part thrown in there as well. I still can't resolve him telling her that she saved his life when it's not like he was hunting anymore, so what did she save his life from if not from himself? That wouldn't excuse him not trying to find Dean but if he really believed Dean to be dead like he said he did, it would explain why he quit hunting. As Bobby would say, "You get a case of the Anne Sextons, something's gonna come up behind you and rip your fool head off." But we'll never know what the hell his revelation would have been because we never got to see it.

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  71. Hellboy28 January 2014 at 09:42

    Krissy Chambers, Abaddon and Henry Winchester are all characters that originated in Glass episodes.

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  72. isleofskye28 January 2014 at 10:04

    True.

    That line where he goes "Amelia, you saved me" does seem a strange thing to say.

    Sam had obviously found some peace in his life ( following Carver's canon ) because we saw him doing handy-man work in the motel before ever hooking up with Amelia, and he was even smiling!! So just what did Amelia save him from?
    My mind keeps going back to the mysterious stranger outside their home in Kermit. Nothing will convince me that it was originally meant to be Don. They must have changed that when the arc fizzled out.

    x

    The booze, i believe was more Amelia's vice than Sam's. When we first see her room , she's the one who is chugging down the alcohol.with the limes.

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  73. maloose28 January 2014 at 10:35

    Either you take possession too horrible or I take rape unrivaled, lol. I for one take this kind of possession over rape any day, the fear alone would break me if not kill me.
    Anyway, I think 'possession' is pretty expressive enough, possession is one thing and rape is another, and while they're both horrible in their own levels, they're no where near the same thing.

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  74. tvmonkey28 January 2014 at 10:36

    Glass tends to write Dean as a douche too just as one who is always gets away with it because they cant possibly taint poor Saint Dean. Bet you even with the Mark of Cain Dean comes of as right, he'll only kill monsters which no one cares about and he'll be able to whatever he wants/act however he wants towards Sam and justify his actions with his usual 'I cant live with you dead' trope.

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  75. tvmonkey28 January 2014 at 10:40

    can someone name all the episodes Glass has written?

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  76. tvmonkey28 January 2014 at 10:44

    I'm not sure about stupid and weak more like not needed on the show/ writers dont like to write for Sam so they write him out where they can. IMO it makes the writers look stuoid and weak for repeatedly using and abusing Sam to make Dean look like the bestest hunter/brother in all of creation.

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  77. tvmonkey28 January 2014 at 10:45

    I agree Dean didnt save Sam this season, Gadreel, Crowley and Cas have all played their parts but Dean has been the cause of most of the things Sam has needed saving from this season.

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  78. tvmonkey28 January 2014 at 10:48

    I think the writers were hoping people would just accept/assume that Gadreel was constantly wiping Sam's memory OR it was never really ever Sam (makes no sense to me) OR Sam trusted Dean too much to question what was going on especially after Sacrifice. Sam has been blindly trusting Dean a lot since the end of last season.

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  79. maloose28 January 2014 at 10:58

    I agree, they were the perfect picture of 'misery loves company', I felt more life from Dean's flashbacks than this supposedly happy couple.
    I think the foggy dreamy quality of these flashbacks confirm your idea, they could all be made-up. Wish they had gone w/ it.
    Still it doesn't explain how the persistent and goal-driven Sam would drop everything and the goal in front of him (finding Dean) this easily... the nerve of Carver, how unbelievably he changed a 7-year established characterization!

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  80. maloose28 January 2014 at 11:07

    Go to SupernaturalWiki.com section 'Production'. You can find everything about cast & crew there.

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  81. rehabber28 January 2014 at 11:09

    LOL, that should have been done with ALL of last season.

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  82. tvmonkey28 January 2014 at 11:43

    Carver is a Sam hater pure and simple

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  83. tvmonkey28 January 2014 at 12:05

    thats because the episode was bullshit, going into the whole storyline I knew Saint Dean ciuldnt possibly make friends with a bad monster no he had to be the cutest cuddliest friendliest minster on earth.
    And I'm sorry but Martin's choice to go after Benny was that of a hunter, any other hunter would have dont the same thing because thats what they do they kill monsters even based on little info that that particular monster is an actual killer or not. Just look at Gordon or Dean before Sam tought him how to see that they hunt evil not just creatures because they're different and perceived as a threat because of said differences. Most hunters see in black and white unlike Sam and Dean who as the moral compasses of the show have to see in shades of grey (unless the plot requires them not to) to be perceived as actual heros and not indisciminate murderers. I dont care if he was perceived as being crazy, its not like Dean was of sound mind when he killed Amy or Sam wasnt high as a kite when he went after Lilith. I fully believe that even if Sam had bundled Martin the car and taken him to the nearest town Martin would have gone after Benny himslef and died any way.
    Besides had Carver and Jensen not been so in love with the idea of Benny then Dean would have had to kill him for falling of the wagon anyway in Taxi Driver, they cut a scene where Benny admitts to haveing been killing again. That may have stopped all the woobyBenny appeal and gone a long way to proving Sam was right to question Benny's integrity. But just so they could make Sam look stupid and so that they could bring precious Benny back someday because they loved him so much they dropped the scene at Sam's expence.

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  84. tvmonkey28 January 2014 at 12:14

    my guess would be he becomes a murderer? Starts killing indisciminatly? Mostly I think it will just make him really angry and dickish. I doubt they'll have Dean do anything immoral and even if they do they can just justify it with some line about how he had to do it to save whoever/ the Mark made him do it.

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  85. tvmonkey28 January 2014 at 12:15

    so basically he writes for Dean only

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  86. isleofskye28 January 2014 at 12:25

    I don't think anything world-shaking will come of it.
    These writers tend tio throw stuff in for shock appeal without the faintest idea of how to elaborate on it.
    The only idea it gives me is that it would make Dean kill Sam just as Cain killed Abel, but as I can't see such a thing happening, at least for the moment, the mark of cain will probably peter out like all the past arcs.

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  87. Miss Supernatural28 January 2014 at 13:56

    I agree that Martin would have gone after Benny regardless. Still, Martin was in that situation because Sam put him in it to begin with by asking him, a crazy hunter, to watch him. It matters to me that he was "crazy", because if a hunter is dangerous, a crazy one is even more. Especially when they're willing to hurt innocent people to get their prey. I also really disliked him, because if it wasn't for him, I think Sam would have listened to Dean or at last give him more time, meet Benny or something. Seriously, Martin hitting Dean in the head behind his back should have been a major red flag for Sam right there.

    Anyway. Dean being right or wrong, I hated that storyline because of the damage it caused to Sam as character (one more, thanks to Carver). Like you said yourself, Sam was the always the one to be sympathetic (and was always right to do so) to monsters who wanted to do the right thing, except Benny, who was responsible to save/help his brother. I agree that Sam had all the right to be suspicious. I think the majority of fans (including myself) was too until he died, but I would think that Sam would have given him at last a chance, like he did to Lenore or even that werewolf girl from the beginning of the season. It would be in character. But he didn't. It bothered me because, IMO, it was out of character. It made him look a bit jealous of Benny, IMO.

    I'm even kind of worried about his reaction to Garth being a werewolf tonight. Will he be the Sam we always knew or will he want to kill Garth? Same goes for Dean. I'll try to stay the hell away from comments because regardless of the outcome, I'm sure there will be bashing to Sam and/or Dean for it.

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  88. chris68428 January 2014 at 14:36

    I don't understand why there can't be emotion in Sam's reaction to Benny - why it has to be all logical. The logical argument here would be that Sam is a hunter and it looked like Benny was killing things, and Sam thought Dean's judgment was clouded because of his relationship with Benny in Purgatory. But I do think there was an emotional element to this too.


    Dean was hiding Benny from Sam like a husband hiding his mistress, and then when Sam discovers Benny, Dean throws it in Sam's face that Benny has never let him down (or something to that effect), with the implied comparison to Sam who is always letting him down. There's also the monster history too - Dean refusing to accept Sam as a monster back in season 4, refusing to give Amy a chance after Sam told Dean Amy was like him, but accepting a vampire as a brother. Why would Sam view Benny as just any other monster at that point? Why shouldn't his anger, or hurt, toward Dean affect his reactions?

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  89. Miss Supernatural28 January 2014 at 14:51

    I would agree with your first paragraph (because that's exactly the way I felt for this AND Amy's storyline) if Sam had given a chance to Benny at the beginning, but he never did. That's what I took issue of. Sam isn't like this.

    The second paragraph, I agree with, partially. But it still bothers me and makes me consider Sam not even trying to give Benny the benefit of the doubt, OOC.

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  90. maloose28 January 2014 at 14:56

    Of course Sam's reaction was emotional, logical Sam would never act this hasty and w/ animosity toward a supernatural character, except demons but it has its own reason. The question is why Sam was this emotional when he always defended his actions in not looking for Dean.

    All in all, I find it easier to chalk off all this S8 craziness as Carver's screw-up than struggling to find a logical excuse for them.

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  91. chris68428 January 2014 at 15:02

    I'm not sure what you mean when you say that Sam didn't give Benny a chance at the beginning. He was monitoring for suspicious monster activity around Benny because that's what they do when they catch and release. They keep an eye for signs that the monster has reverted back. When he did hear of suspicious activity, he sent Benny to investigate - a task Benny was qualified for - mental history or not. He had no way of knowing that events would spiral out of control the way they did. When Benny uncovered more evidence, Sam confronted Dean about it.


    I'm reading into this that some people think that Sam should have blindly trusted Benny and not even monitored him because Dean trusted him. Sam thought Dean was emotionally compromised (with good reason it appears, as Dean wasn't monitoring Benny, despite Benny continually dropping hints to Dean on how much trouble he was having controlling his urges). Also, Sam and Dean's relationship was strained at the time, so communication and trust between them weren't at their strongest levels.

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  92. chris68428 January 2014 at 15:07

    I disagree that Sam was acting hasty. I just elaborated more in a response to Miss Supernatural. Sam and Dean are hunters and kill monsters with much less evidence than what was being presented to them by Martin. Sam thought Dean was compromised.


    I don't understand the logic in the last sentence of your first paragraph. Because Sam ran when his world imploded because he thought Dean was dead (Sam's explanation here), then he can't resent Dean rubbing in his face all of his past disappointments in him (Ruby, his soullessness, etc.) and that Benny in contrast never let him down? Sam's not a vulcan. He has emotions.

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  93. maloose28 January 2014 at 15:33

    As I remember, Dean asked them multiple time to give him a chance to talk w/ Benny, for confirmation, but they bound him and left to kill Benny. Sam became dubious in one point but clearly he was itching to prove Dean that his new brother was a monster and went w/ that crazy hunter. Dean maybe was close to Benny, but he was an experienced hunter, Sam should have given him the credit (and he would, if S8 didn't tell him to do otherwise).



    This is exactly what I call a screw-up. There was 'no way' Sam wouldn't look for Dean. You base your reason on this big impossible story, it opens too many plot-holes and contradictions, and won't take us to an acceptable conclusion.

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  94. chris68428 January 2014 at 15:56

    I read a post elsewhere on this page that Dean didn't listen to Sam about Amy because he thought Sam was emotionally compromised. Sam thought Dean was emotionally compromised in the case of Benny. They're both experienced hunters, so trust and doubt goes both ways. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree that Sam's actions toward Benny were out of character or inappropriate.

    And before someone responds, "Amy was killing people," both Amy and Benny were portrayed as monsters with a biological imperative to kill, but who didn't want to and were finding ways to manage it. They both, however, killed when the lives of family were at stake.

    I agree that presenting Sam as not looking for Dean was a screw up and was out of character, but I still don't see the connection between that and what happened later with Benny.

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  95. maloose28 January 2014 at 16:36

    Of course! Amy plot was nonsense too. Dean always trusted Sam (not demon blood addict or souless Sam) and heard his inputs, not killing that demon in Croatoan or those vampires in Bloodlust, ... They're a team. He wouldn't doubt Sam in his judgement, let alone going on his back like that.

    The whole set up of the 1st half of S8 was based on that story line, the emotional states and interactions between Dean & Sam, this Benny dispute included.
    Another point here that shows how messed up this plot was, Sam who was indulging in his no-hunt life for a year and constantly reminded Dean he would leave after finding Kevin, when exactly his hunter heart grew 10times and decided to follow potential danger?! I don't see any commitment spirit in this Sam, just an emotional Sam who had found a chance to prove Dean he was better than his new brother.
    As I said full of plot holes and contradictions, better be left alone.

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  96. Lisa28 January 2014 at 17:57

    Yeah, I heard the mysterious stranger might have even been Benny at one point. They originally had him turning out to still be feeding on humans but because the fans took to the character they decided to keep him as a good guy. There was a deleted scene from Taxi Driver that had Benny admitting to Dean that he had "fallen off the wagon" or something to that effect. As far as Sam being all bright, shiny and happy, again I think that maybe the revelation would have shown him to be a drunken, depressed suicidal mess and he had just built the entire thing up in his head as this idyllic romance that was worth giving up the life for. Why else would they have him seemingly relating to Brick Holmes driving himself off of a bridge and then commenting to Amelia that she saved him? Then there's the whole "Living in a dream world can be great" speech in Hunteri Heroici that doesn't make any freaking sense if the entire thing was to be taken literally. IDK, it just doesn't add up.

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  97. Peter J428 January 2014 at 18:01

    I don't think Dean was written that way in Glass' last two episodes. I am expecting that tonight, but at least it might make more sense for Dean's mindset. I just dread Garth's lecturing.

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  98. Peter J428 January 2014 at 18:02

    Both he and Dean were knocked out at points in 9x05. In 9x04 he was only out because Gadreel saved Charlie.

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  99. Peter J428 January 2014 at 18:03

    The show has always written one or both of Dean and Sam as stupid or weak depending on plot purposes. Back from season 1 on. It just depends on who writes the episodes.

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  100. Peter J428 January 2014 at 18:04

    Charlie barely appears on the show.


    They've shown Sam researching this season.

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  101. Peter J428 January 2014 at 18:06

    I think Carver cares. He just doesn't know how to write for him. Gamble also wrote nothing but ass for Sam. Kripke also damaged the character horribly in season 4 and could only come up with Sam committing suicide in season 5 to somehow atone.


    They stopped understanding Sam a long time ago. And the first major story Carver gave Sam (Amelia) was poorly done and caused a lot of backlash.

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  102. chris68428 January 2014 at 18:24

    "Dean always trusted Sam (not demon blood addict or soulless Sam) and heard his inputs"


    I remember before this episode aired reading interviews with Gamble that implied that Dean was reeling from the Cas betrayal and was questioning his own hunting judgments. So I think there was an intent to show Dean as more compromised that got lost in the translation.

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  103. isleofskye28 January 2014 at 18:56

    I only used Charlie as one example.
    Sam, since Carver took over, has changed completely from the confident, feisty argumentative, almost genial character he was under Kripke and Sera.
    x
    Carver has made him into a poor soul who no longer has an integrity of his own, but is used as a simple plot device for all the other characters.
    Dean is also used badly but to a lesser extent than Sam, as he seems easier for these mediocre writers to write for.

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  104. isleofskye28 January 2014 at 19:07

    It would have been perfectly believably if Sam had been imagining his fling with Amelia, especially after an entire season of Lucifer hallucinations.
    Dean's disappearance would have been the last straw that broke the camel's back and Amelia could have turned out to be his therapist or something.
    The Amelia arc made no sense at all the way it was presented.
    x
    Of course not much made sense in season eight, so I suppose Amelia is par for the course.
    x
    The Benny arc too was useless.
    I'll never understand why Dean kept him hidden. Sam would have been the first to thank Benny for helping his brother to get out of Purgatory. Maybe he wouldn't have trusted Benny, but I think he would have given him the benefit of the doubt.
    x
    As I see it Carver just wanted any excuse to put the brothers at odds with one another, and he didn't really put great thought into the details.

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  105. Miss Supernatural28 January 2014 at 23:43

    Yes, he did, but this "explanation" by Carver didn't make sense for reasons that I'm sure you know about, so I'm not going to go there again, it's pointless.


    Well, Sam's ultimatum made Dean shut up and suck it up, for sure. But it didn't make the hurt go away. I'm pretty sure the same is going to happen this season. If Sam wants to die, Dean should shut up, suck it up and let him die. Nevermind that it goes against what the whole show was about.

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  106. Miss Supernatural29 January 2014 at 00:05

    Sam didn't do it with Lenore and her group or the werewolf girl, though, so I don't think it's something he/they usually do.

    Maybe now it's my turn to be misremembering the episode because from what I remember, Sam sent Martin to watch Benny from the start, even giving him the name and it was only when the murders started that Martin contacted Sam. I agree with you that this whole issue wouldn't happen if their relationship weren't so tense and filled with mistrust. Sam was hurt, Dean was hurt. I just think that Sam being so straight-forward towards Benny was OOC, but I just read a comment from isleofskye saying that it wouldn't be a huge issue if Dean had told Sam and I agree with that.

    Anyway, moot point and sorry for all this rant, taking things from past season. I never got over them, like you can figure. :D I tend to pretend that the first half of season 8 didn't even happen, lol. The second part was so much better for this brothers fan.... Can't believe they screwed the brothers relationship all over again and here with go with more fights and hurts. So frustrating. :'(

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  107. lala229 January 2014 at 02:01

    they don't understand in the least what makes these two brothers tick.


    No, they sure don't!

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  108. lala229 January 2014 at 02:01

    One instance of Charlie is one too many in my book!

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