Hello Supernatural fans and welcome to the Gripe Review, where I respond to SPN fans’ joy and celebration over an episode giving them a storyline they were waiting for with my crazy talk about story structure, dialogue and narrative.
I thought this episode did a good job carrying the momentum 9.10 established last week. I liked where all the characters ended up, each with their own quest to follow or assist with. What I didn’t like however was how it was all written and executed.
I remember back when I read the episode synopsis I got really excited. For the longest time I had wished for a Sam and Castiel bonding moment because it was truly needed. They both had shown, on separate occasions, that they cared for each other, yet they acted like those friends who never came to the same parties or always showed up when the other was leaving. Having them spend some time together opened up many possibilities, like talking about their similar experiences, comparing notes about Dean, and most importantly strengthening their friendship. Also Cain sounded like an exciting story idea for Dean and Crowley to follow so all signs pointed at an excellent episode.
I was sourly disappointed with what actually happened on screen, and I lay the blame on Robbie Thompson who wrote the script, which is what makes my situation here difficult. Robbie, as it turns out, is one of the more popular writers of the show. He’s an active Twitter user who engages fans with little tidbits about cast and crew. He burst into the social media scene claiming to support certain fan favorite themes. And he gets to writer some the most emotional, pairing related, gear changing episodes. None of this changes the fact that he is an average writer who usually does a paint-by-the-numbers job with his scripts. With him (and Adam Glass) you mostly get very linear and predictable stories, usually with mediocre dialogue. Neither of them spend that much time brainstorming on a plot that would surprise you, red herring you, or to serve any more excitement than the bare minimum required for their purpose.
Read the gripes to see what I mean, then fire your tomato torpedoes at me in the comments.
Gripe #1: Give me Sam’s POV…NOW!
I’ve had it up to here with writers and the show using Sam as an integral plot device without telling me how he feels or thinks about any of it. Last episode, when it was Dean hanging out with Cas, we got a full post-hoc analysis on Dean’s emotional state following the events of the first half of the season. This epsiode was the perfect opportunity to do the same with Sam and have him tell Castiel (us) how he felt about his angel possession, Dean lying to him, or being the vessel used to kill Kevin. He could have opened up about Dean’s absence and how that affected him, since we only got one line about it from him last episode.
I’m beginning to suspect the writers themselves don’t know much about Sam. They never give him the chance to emote, and every time the chance inadvertently comes up they skirt around it (like when Jody asked him about his bond with Dean in 9.08.) In all of Sam's post season 5 stories, the trials, leaving Amelia, dealing with Lucifer (something he and Cas shared,) going to hell, etc. we never got a glance inside Sam’s head to understand how each of them affected him. All we ever got were sound bites that sent the fandom spinning into speculations.
In this episode, instead of giving us a heart to heart between Sam and Cas like the two dozen ones we got between Dean and Cas, we get the same deal. Sam clamps up every time Cas mentions Dean or Gadreel, then Cas launches into a rant about humanity, the value of life and PB&J (most nonsensical analogy I heard,) and eventually their time together crumbles into the stinking swamp that’s Gripe #2.
Some fans claim Sam feels guilty because he thinks he failed at everything. It’s a valid speculation but still just that, a speculation. Until he actually talks about it with someone – Dean, Cas, even Garth – we can’t say much about Sam Winchester that is canon, and it makes sympathizing with him quite difficult.
Gripe #2: The trope that is repeated so much it needs to be banned.
You know those tropes that happen on shows so many times they become running gags, like Kenny being killed on South Park? Supernatural has a couple of those, except instead of being funny (since they aren’t intended to be) they are irritating.
Picture Sam being tied to a chair (or some other raised surface) while someone towers over him and does something to him that makes him scream. Now tell me how many times, in how many different permutations, have you seen that image on the show? It’s reached a level that I feel both ill and amused every time I see it coming. It is worse when, like in this episode, someone like Castiel keeps a running commentary about Just. How. Much. The deed is hurting Sam.
I expect this kind of fetishism from fanfiction writers. I’m eternally baffled why it keeps happening on the show. When Sera Gamble was in charge people accused her of being a Sam fan and said that was why her seasons were piled high with this trope. Now Carver is in charge and we get the same deal, making me wonder who is really in charge of pulling the strings that land Sam on the torture table?
Last season when we had to sit through half a season of Sam being systematically beaten – which like in this episode resulted in nothing – the goal at least was to close the gates of Hell. This time Sam insisted on going through the pain for the sake of taking revenge. I couldn’t comprehend how the writer/showrunner expected us to feel bad for him when his motive was as cliche and trivial as that, not something epic like the apocalypse or trapping all demons for eternity. I know the idea was to veer Sam off of his self-sacrificing path since it got hammered into our heads by Castiel (see Gripe #3) so insistently, but for that to have an impact a writer first has to make me care about the character and the cause, and it’s hard to do that when I’m rolling my eyes over the proverbial Kenny getting killed for the millionth time for something that doesn't even matter that much.
Gipe #3: Show don’t tell.
It’s such an overstated rule of writing I feel silly putting it here. Yet it is something that is committed by show writers on a regular basis. Robbie’s episodes in particular are full of dialogue that is simply there to “inform” us of something we’d rather “watch” on screen. This episode is no exception. Let’s observe:
-Cas tells Sam how different he feels as a born again angel and how he and Dean should be loving brothers
-Tara tells Dean (multiple times) how she keeps comparing him to John and finding Dean wanting
-Crowley tells Dean Cain is the most frightening creature alive (which Cain doesn’t live up to. More on that in Gripe #5.)
-Cain tells Dean (multiple times) how he knows about his reputation as a brave hunter
-Sam tells Cas his life isn’t worth more than anyone else.
I don’t know why Robbie thought he had to hold our hands through all of this by making characters say things straight up. Every writer worth his salt knows that good dialogue consists of evading, hinting, stalling and implying, because that is how real people talk. You should never let your characters get on a soapbox and announce the things you want your viewers to know.
And yet Castiel alone violated this rule so many times in this episode I wanted to tune him out. I’d never seen a character act like a PSA megaphone to this extent on any TV show. Every word that came out of his mouth in his scenes with Sam sounded like a lecture. Compare that to how he spoke to Dean in 9.10 and you’ll see the difference.
Gripe #4: The other trope that is repeated so much it needs to be banned.
Why did Cain go straight? Was it because he got tired of hurting people? Was it because he kept bumping heads with Lucifer and his knights of hell? Did he meet his brother again? Did he reach a dilemma that involved such an unspeakable crime that tilted his broken psyche toward the good side?
No, his big transformation was *drumrolls* because of a woman.
Like John, like Bobby, like Gabriel, like Benny, Chronos, Brick (from Heartache), Prometheus and the Phoenix (from Frontierland.)
There’s only one backstory for men who turn their lives around on Supernatural and that’s “he did it for a woman.”
Some may protest that it’s because this is a theme on the show. I say Cain & Able vs. Lucifer & Michael vs. Sam & Dean is a theme on the show. The concepts are similar, but the details are so different they are all a story of their own. And yet the audience makes the connections and understands the underlying thread. This in contrast is recycling. Its writers falling in love with a trope so much they don't even realize how many times they've used it. It’s lazy writing.
When I heard about Cain’s story I humored myself imagining this would be the reason he quit his ways. When the episode aired I couldn’t believe it was true. It felt like another running gag played for comedy, like Castiel never getting to ride shotgun. Yet this isn't supposed to be funny. It’s supposed to be poignant and heart wrenching, and it’s not, because all I thought about while watching it was, “Welcome to the Loved and Lost club, Cain.”
Gripe #5: Cain, the king of exposition
Speaking of Cain, something else I looked forward to since the episode summary was seeing Cain in all his glory. I pictured him as a beast in control, a dynamic, dark character exuding power that simmered under the surface. The Cain on the show was nothing like I imagined. He looked more like a bored college instructor trying to get rid of a pair of students begging for passing grades. I had high school teachers who looked more intimidating than him.
But that’s my personal gripe and not the real problem with this character. The real problem was his dialogue and actions, which mostly consisted of exposition. The majority of the time he was onscreen he was busy telling us what he did in the past, why he did it, why he was never going to do it again, and finally, how he suddenly decided to do it again. Again a lot of telling, not much showing.
This is a character problem that usually occurs when the writer stacks a character with too much backstory and things that need ‘xplaining. Instead of emotional, character defining dialogue you get plot description from him. The character has so much to clarify about himself and his role in the story he never gets to connect with anyone, or react properly to anything that happens. He goes through a checklist of “things to explain” and does a bunch of things to move the story from one station to another.
In the short time Cain was onscreen he had to tell us about his brother, both the assumed and the real story behind his feud with him, then about what came out of it, the fact that he trained the Knights of Hell, the fact that he was Lucifer’s right hand man, then met a woman, found love, got screwed over by Abaddon, decided to live a life of seclusion and didn’t want to go back to using his powers, had a weapon that could kill those knights, which he had discarded, and the a way to get it back.
Piling so much on a character that is only supposed to be in one episode convolutes the audience’s connection with him. I could see the actor visibly struggling with the dialogue while trying to do something to convey Cain’s personality. He did his best but it still came out weak. On top of that it was hard to understand what he was doing and why he he was doing it due to the way his scenes were structured and organized.
Toward the end, when Dean was demanding he helped them and threatened him with the demon killing knife, he stabbed himself to show it wouldn't kill him, then disappeared from the house. I thought he had left because he was tired of all the noise. But then they showed him sitting at his wife’s gravestone, apologizing to her, before going back to the house again. It was so jarring even Dean commented on it. Then he and we find out the man had a change of heart and was now willing to help. I almost thought I had missed a scene because as hard as I tried I couldn’t remember what brought on this change. Was it something Dean said? Was it one of Abaddon’s minions looking funny at him? Was it a thought inside his head we weren’t privy to?
Or was it because the writer needed it to happen and didn’t bother to back it up with a rationale, perhaps because he is so filled with fan praise he doesn’t think it’s worth the effort?
We can’t make the show better unless we tackle these small problems with writing that keep coming up in episodes. The first step in improvement is to drop all ego and fan “squee” and actually think about what happens on screen, not how our favorite characters got a scene together or our favorite trope was served. We should want a better show, not just a show that gives us what we want regardless of the quality.
Don’t forget to throw your tomatoes at me in the comments. I don’t expect much cheer for this article for reasons I mentioned in the opening, but I’m hoping that the reasons I listed in the gripes at least makes you see my side a little and use a batch of not so rotten ones.
Tessa
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Sorry to disappoint, but I'm in total agreement with you so guess no griping from me to you. Just send the gripes to the writers and crew. Thanks...
ReplyDeleteI agree with a lot of your gripes.
ReplyDelete1. I also wanted more POV from Sam on the things that happened to him. Upon reflection, I’ve come to the conclusion that the scenes weren’t about Sam; they were about Cas, which is why the character development was about Cas.
We learned nothing new about Sam last night. He didn’t shed any more light on the possession and how he feels about it so I’m not expecting anymore to be said about it. As far as I can tell, the Gadreel story was written to further Dean; it has no impact on Sam at all, which is why his POV has been so limited.
2. My other problem w/the Sam/Cas scenes was the dialogue. Sam and Cas barely interact on a good day so to have Cas suddenly declare that “nothing” was worth Sam’s life just rang a bit hollow in my eyes; it didn’t feel real. Perhaps if Sam and Cas had this wonderful friendship, that dialogue would have moved me, but they don’t so it didn’t. I actually would have preferred their bonding to be more real. Show them awkwardly interacing and then discovering (or acknowledging) their similarities. Take the time to actually build a relationship btw the two. At this time, I just find it hard to believe that Cas cares that much about Sam.I just don’t think their characters have much of a friendship or even much of a relationship b/c the show has NOT invested in them. Last night was all “tell” as usual. We need some “show” too.
3. I also didn’t like the whole “you’re reverting back to the state you were in before Gadreel healed you,” so let me lay hands real quick, and you’re all healed up! Okay. If Cas could heal Sam that easily, why did he imply he couldn’t last year? He said Sam was damaged in ways even he could not heal. So, what changed? Did the angel he killed have better “grace” than him or something? Why even say that? Why not say the procedure was simply killing Sam or damaging his body? Did they forget what they wrote just last year?
4. I agree about the Cain trope. Why couldn't Cain just decide he didn't like killing? His story is very similar to the ones we’ve heard before. Bad guy stops being bad for love. As you mentioned, we got that with the Phoenix, Benny, and even the creature from Heartache last year if I recall correctly.
5. I also hate that Tara (was that her name) was killed. She seemed really cool. Why can we never keep the really cool characters? Like Sarge, Rufus, Henrickson? They all die.
6. I also really wish Dean had inquired about the “price” that comes w/the mark before assuming it. I’m sure it’s nothing good. The boys should know to ask more questions at this point.
I am also concerned that Sam will not be given anything to do. He seemed really pointless and completely unnecessary last night. Dean had that fate at the end of last season, IMO, and I didn’t like it. At least Dean still talked to people, but you never know w/Sam. I had hoped he’d support Dean in the mytharc but that doesn’t look like it will be happening. Sam is w/o a purpose for now, and that’s a bad place for a character none of the writers care about to be in!
Sam and Cas barely interact on a good day so to have Cas suddenly declare that “nothing” was worth Sam’s life just rang a bit hollow in my eyes; it didn’t feel real. Perhaps if Sam and Cas had this wonderful friendship, that dialogue would have moved me, but they don’t so it didn’t. I actually would have preferred their bonding to be more real. Show them awkwardly interacing and then discovering (or acknowledging) their similarities. Take the time to actually build a relationship btw the two. At this time, I just find it hard to believe that Cas cares that much about Sam.I just don’t think their characters have much of a friendship or even much of a relationship b/c the show has NOT invested in them. Last night was all “tell” as usual. We need some “show” too.
ReplyDeleteYou said it better than I did. I was struggling why the dialogue rang so false and chalked it all up to too much telling and too much Cas PSA. But there's another problem here too, and it's what you posted. The fact that Sam and Cas' friendship is yet not developed enough for Cas to have the level of closeness to Sam to give him such lectures, or claim to know him so well, or pretend to care about him that much. For those scenes to work the two characters need to have a history together that connects them on an emotional level (the case with Sam and Dean or Dean and Cas.) For the writers to ignore all that build up between Sam and Cas and expect to reap the same results is wishful thinking.
I agree about Tara, but after the show went back and killed beloved Sarah from season one I've made peace with the fact that no women are allowed to survive on this show.
As for Sam having something to do on the show, I'm afraid a tidal wave will soon come to sweep him away and toss him into yet another peril for other characters to worry and resolve while he struggles to keep his head out of the water.
Thanks, I'll hide behind your support when the shots come from the other fans :)
ReplyDeleteFor those scenes to work the two characters need to have a history
ReplyDeletetogether that connects them on an emotional level (the case with Sam and
Dean or Dean and Cas.) For the writers to ignore all that build up
between Sam and Cas and expect to reap the same results is wishful
thinking.
You said it. That's the reason why Cas's dialogue bothered me. Those were very powerful words, and I simply couldn't buy him saying them to Sam. If it had been Dean, the dialogue would have made complete sense b/c the show has taken the time and effort to build and show that friendship. The same has not occurred w/Sam and Castiel, and instead of using this rare moment to show them learning about each other and getting to relate to each other, they just skipped right to "We're besties." It made no sense.
And I'm not opposed to a Sam/Cas friendship. I just want to be shown their friendship rather than told about it.
As for Sam having something to do on the show, I'm afraid a tidal wave
will soon come to sweep him away and toss him into yet another peril for
other characters to worry and resolve while he struggles to keep his
head out of the water.
I believe Sam will be taking the role Dean had at the end of last year. Sam will just be there w/no specific role or purpose. I will never understand the difficulty these writers have in writing for two characters. It really shouldn't be that hard. Both Sam and Dean should get both mytharc and POV. The writers only seem capable of writing for one character at a time. It's strange.
Thanks for the article, but while I agree w/ some of the gripes here, I think his episode was not that bad off as you say. Personally I enjoyed this episode, the myth and plot twist, the character Cain and the interaction between Dean-Cain-Crowley-Tara were all great.
ReplyDelete1&2. Yes, the only part that was not satisfactory in this ep. @Chris had a great analysis of Sam's character in his/her review article. Technically Carver's Sam is baseless; until S8, Sam was a goal-driven fighter and devoting brother, S8 Sam was completely another person, Carver can't decide on a fix character for Sam even in his own reign, the Sam who didn't even say sorry for not looking for Dean suddenly says his greatest sin is letting Dean down at the end of the season, he chooses to live and says he's happy w/ his life in S9E2 but now suddenly regrets he didn't close the gates, he left Kevin to perish in the hands of King of hell but now he's willing to kill himself to avenge him,.... I say unless the writers and Carver can't come up w/ a fix and stable characterization for Sam, we won't get any POV b/c the writers themselves don't know what to write in this POV, nor we get any believable interaction/relationship w/ other characters, heck I'm not even sure how he feels about Dean w/o turning to guessing.
And torturing Sam, well,duh! I've seen this ep 3times and always fastforwarded these parts. Enough is enough.
The rest I can live them, but about 'the woman' part, personally I think it wasn't anything about loving a woman or romance. Cain whose base is good, was forced to kill his brother and do things he knew were wrong. He didn't have anyone, no family, no God, nobody showed him any forgiveness or sympathy. Collet or another person, anyone in this godforsaken situation would obtain Cain's devotion if they showed him kindness.
I wouldn't say Dean and Cas were necessarily well written this season. Castiel in particular was completely misused in the first half of S09 and in this episode (only the second after the show came back) he was spouting life lessons. That's not much better than Sam's locked up emotional development. Maybe Dean will get a good deal out of the Cain story (and I certainly hope they let Sam save him this time, which may lead to a reinstatement of his affection for his brother after the damages done in S08) but it's not unlikely they'll drop that story for yet another plot they'll pull out of the hat which would loop us back to the writers' familiar and comfortable turfs: Sam getting knocked out and Dean trying to save him.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't talk to Cas about how I felt about the whole situation once Cas started on how "you chose each other"
ReplyDeleteI had so many problems with that line I would have mentioned it here had I not a full plate of other problems to talk about. Sure they chose each other - last season. How does that apply to this season? If Sam had chosen Dean he would've chosen life, not gotten tricked into it. If Dean had chosen Sam he would have let him die, not tricked him into an angel possession.
No one, NO ONE seems to think that there is anything wrong with Dean taking control of Sam's life and deciding when he should live and when he should die.
Because for some reason the writers see this as the core of the brotherly love. One of them on twitter even compared the relationship to the relationship of a parent and child. We all know how parents are the main decision makers for their children, and how they constantly have to put their own well being on the line for them. But writers think it's adorable, and they keep repeating it.
Speaking of Abel. Cain MURDERED him because Lucifer was TRYING to corrupt him. Not because Cain had said yes. Not because Cain had rejected God and his parents and allied with Lucifer but because Cain decided that Abel couldn't possibly, under any circumstances, not even in his wildest dreams say no to Lucifer. Cain was Mr. "I'm strong enough and good enough to make my own decisions on being good and evil" but Abel isn't even given that chance. Cain labels Abel as weak and kills him before Abel has done anything wrong.
I was so tired of all the exposition interspersed with fight scenes at that time I couldn't pay much attention to the story Cain was telling. I agree with you though. What a way to take someone's choice away? The writers were laying the parallels thicker than I thought.
Collet or another person, anyone in this godforsaken situation would obtain Cain's devotion if they showed him kindness.
ReplyDeleteI just wished it was another person. Anyone else except a wife or girlfriend, just to avoid this cliche that has been repeated so many times on this show. I once read an excellent story where a killer whose life was owned by the mob flipped because the mob boss told him to kill a dog. He had killed so many people, men, women and children, so many times. Yet the straw that broke the camel's back for him was a tiny dog he found at a scene and took home with him. That's creative.
I think with the Cas conversation and the whole of season 8 the idea was to edge into giving us Sam's POV. The problem is that he has been bounced around so much as a way to push plot that when Carver just tried to give us that last season there was the response showed that as an audience we don't really think that Sam has really got any real character any more.
ReplyDeleteDean with all his neuroses and complexity he comes across as a whole person. He is someone today we could still see killing Amy as well as beating himself up for letting Benny go and then for killing him to save Sam. The hypocrisy and flaws make sense. But with Sam with all his flip flopping around with his motives for doing the trials last season made it look not like a person who is an emotional mess but more like a bunch of writers throwing everything at a character to explain why they are making him put one foot infront of the other to explain why Crowley is stuck in a chair.
Maybe the whole Cas and Sam bonding is meant to be the start of Sam actually being given some character to build on, though this whole him vocalising that he feels guilty for Kevin I don't get. He didn't knowingly kill Kevin and until then there had been no question that Sam's life was worth any more than anyone else's. So where the hell did that come from, Kevin didn't die for Sam to live, the only being that could be argued in the past two seasons that was knowingly sacrificed for Sam was Benny and so far Benny hasn't been mentioned since Taxi Driver.
Great Gripe review. Can I add that I was annoyed that Cas didn't know a car needed gas? There's a difference between charmingly clueless and downright stupid. Too often Cas falls into the latter group.
ReplyDeleteI understand what you mean, animal, a child (which is cliche too), a 2nd chance from God,... but sometimes we need to see the characters beyond their sex, in this case it had nothing to do w/ attraction and temptation of feminine sex, she was just a kind and forgiving 'person'. Besides I'm sure nobody would want to start another big discussion about the possibility of Cain being homosexual and the next potential pairings. lol
ReplyDeleteHe probably meant that had he (Sam) died then he wouldn't have been possessed by Gadreel and his body wouldn't have been used to kill Kevin.
ReplyDeletePossibly but grammatically it doesn't make sense as Gadreel's price for saving Sam wasn't Kevin's life. I saw Sam saying that on the chair and wondering what deal was he talking about - the one Dean did for him, Benny who. But then he went on about Kevin. It didn't make sense unless Sam actually explains that statement and that means actually having Sam open his mouth and tell us.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they really knew what to do with Sam and Cas in this episode. I liked Thompson's Cas in Goodbye Stranger (which hey, showcased a Cas that was not in control of himself harming Dean, doesn't that sound even slightly similar to a Sam that was not in control of himself killing Kevin I wonder what they could have talked about oh my) but I don't know what they're doing with Cas (or Sam) anymore. Guilt was pretty much his storyline in the previous two seasons and they shoved that under the rug for the Epiphany PB&J. Meaningful character interaction was cut so Cas could be the writers mouthpiece (~You chose each other~) and I'd rather they have something honest and new than have them flog that horse again.
ReplyDeleteCas is researching angel lore. The angel is researching angel lore in a human library.
And then Sam's line about starting the trials again? Was that just filler dialogue or are they going somewhere with it? Or is Sam even going to tell Dean he plans to and start another Lies and Deceit storyline?
But there was the guinea pig line, Cain's beard was pretty fantastic and also hugging so okay, I'm slightly less annoyed.
I find reviews like yours entertaining to say the least AND THANK GOD I am not the only one who thought what the heck when did sam and cas hug last time I checked that's a cas and dean thing to do but sam and cas pull away from each other and the dialogue between them bugged the crap out of me. I will say I have been asking since when did sam get in to suicide I thought that was deans thing I mean he was asking dean when he wanted the trials did he want to survive or die because sam wanted to live. well sam you tell your big bro that and now all of sudden in middle of trials you want to die even though again you and bro descide not to shut the gates of hell because again you want to live. its like swinging doors with sam. make up your mind do you want to live or die because you have to let your big bro know so if you want to die he doesn't make any crazy deals. and finallyi am one of those fans that is happy dean has got a myth arc hopefully we get more shades of 2014 dean. my big gripe is if you are going to form a friendship with cas and sam take it slow. of course how many times can cas bring up dean to sam.
ReplyDeleteThe writing problems are big problems, and the showrunning has been a big problem, the episodes are not planned in such a way as to keep tension for the mytharc (whatever it is this year) the one off episodes are either obviously filler, or lifted from previous episodes (veritas-vesta) and in this episode we get a rehash of same, but instead of bearing castiel's handprint, Dean bears the mark of cain, instead of being full of demon juice, sam's got angel grace you'd think the quest would be for Sam to save Dean this go round, but the stakes just aren't so high compared to previous years, the angel war has been a bust, the demon war hasn't caught fire (no pun intended) we have a few remarkable characters (sam, dean, cas, crowley, abbadon, and I'd even stretch a bit for Metatron) but no viewer has any investment in all of this - except continuing to watch to support the show they've loved, and hope it works out of the morass it's fallen into. It's got all the elements it's always needed for greatness, but someone has to pull it together and make us care about it all. While the bunker is a fabulous set, I'm all for spending money on getting better writers.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with you on the wrongness of Dean wanting to make decisions for Sam, particularly when he said end season five that he was gonna let Sam grow up and take reponsibility and take on the Devil, Family used to be the strong tie that bound, and it was positive, now they have taken Sam and Dean to the extreme where Dean saves Sam out of selfishess, when self-less ness and strength has always been Dean's strongpoint. someone's got to shake up the writing team and get back to basics (and I don't mean just put the two bros back in the car travelling and helping regular people) which would be nice, but remember who Sam and Dean are and make Family a good and positive thing once more.
ReplyDeleteNo doubt. I never expected Dean to go w/o the POV even if he got the mytharc. Dean's POV is the only thing the writers care about on this show, and they managed to give him both POV and mytharc in Seasons 4 and 5, so I never thought it would be different.
ReplyDeleteMy fear is we're losing momentum - once again - on Sam's story. In S7, I knew it was a tragic mistake to stop Sam's hallucination story for 15 episodes b/c all the momentum would be gone. The same thing is happening here. The further we get away from Sam's possession, the less likely it is that Sam will ever express any true feelings about it. I already think the time has passed, and Sam has likely said all he will say (which wasn't much) on the matter. I would love to be wrong about that.
One thing though, your Gripe #1 and #3 contradict each-other. On one hand you want the writers to tell us what's going on with Sam while on the other you want them to do less telling and more showing.
ReplyDeleteTrust me, I'm always in favor of showing instead of telling. However in Sam's case we're way past the point of being picky. With him they neither show nor tell and if I have to choose between question mark Sam and a Sam that is telling me how he feels, I'd take the talking one.
Sam's character has been all over the place since season 5. Right now, it seems like the writers are throwing a clusterfuck of characterizations at him.
I doubt post season 5 showrunners and their writers ever had a session where they sat down and established Sam's characterization. I think every writer who writes an episode sees him as a blank slate on which paints whatever personality he sees fit. That's the reason behind the clusterfuck.
When there's an ensemble of writers there needs to be a bible somewhere in which each character's detailed characteristics are described, so that every writer knows what this guy would or wouldn't do in their script. I doubt there's even one for Dean or Cas. The only reason they haven't been as much a victim of this as Sam is that they didn't spent as much time, unconscious or possessed like him, so writers have at least the previous episodes to use as reference.
Speaking of Cain, I think the reason for his turnaround was the parallel relationship between Sam and Dean and Abel and Cain.
That makes sense. However it was not clear at all midst all the action and flashback and Collette's backstory having to take screen time. With everything going on they had so little time to talk about Able and the parallel between him and Sam that it got kind of lost.
As for the "Sam on a surface and screaming" I'm just tired of the concept and don't want to see it again, in any story. The show has poked Sam too many times enough. It's time it left the guy alone, or better, allowed him to rescue some other people who were being poked.
That is why I believe that the episode that followed Holy Terror needed to be Sam-centric. We have yet to see a genuine Sam-centric episode and has far as I know there is not one coming up. This episode was perfect to approach from Sam's pov and have him talk about alot of the issues brought up from being possessed and the resulting damage. The Castiel scenes fell flat for me because he did most of the talking and the dialogue was horrible and the 'biggest screw up line' made me cringe.
ReplyDeleteI liked the episode, but still, I agree with all you said.
ReplyDeleteAh, and they apparently forgot Crowley's blood addiction...that was interesting.
I agree with a lot of your points, especially the Wooby!Sam bit. It's fanfiction fetishism as you called it, and in my opinion, they're not doing Sam (or Jared) any favors here. I fast forwarded through most of the last part of Season 8, and I've fast forwarded through every other Wooby!Sam part in Season 9 as well. I simply can't stand it anymore and am starting to be repulsed even by Jared at this point. It's so bad in Season 8, that for the first time ever, I won't be buying the DVD boxset. It would be a complete waste of money. Come on writers, he's a man, not a baby!!!
ReplyDeleteJust like when Sam was possessed by Meg and killed that hunter, Sam feels guilty because he saw himself kill them. You can tell yourself that you weren't in control, but that doesn't erase the memories.
ReplyDeleteNo it wasnt but it was the result of the possession . And a burning example of Sam's worst nightmare that he was used to hurt someone , closing the gates were on him and Dean but Kevin that will be seared into Sam's eyes as he remembered what Gadreel did while inside him.
ReplyDeleteFamily hasn't been a good or positive thing on this show since season 2. Sam was horrified by the deal Dean made for him, and it led to huge carnage. The main difference between then and now is the writing is less willing to present Dean's behavior as romantic and loving.
ReplyDeleteThe only person who has said anything about it is Cas. I'm sure if more people knew they'd have reactions beyond support.
ReplyDeleteI think Dean knows what he did was wrong, he just couldn't help it, which he basically told Sam.
I think Dean's been well-written this season, aside from A Rock and a Hard Place. He did an unthinkable act yet most of it made sense for the character and he wasn't cheapened or whitewashed for plot purposes. We saw everything being taken from him through this choice, now leaving him with nothing, not even the belief he'd clung to most of his life (that if he kept Sam around, things would be fine, that this was good and just). This was the first time in a long time they had Dean make the choices instead of reacting to them, and knocking that righteousness out of the character really opens him up.
ReplyDeleteI too am expecting the story to be dropped, but it's the first time in years that something has actually happened with the character driving plot, instead of just having a set piece (Purgatory, Lisa and Ben, depression and drinking that went away because a bunch of father figures shamed him).
I prefer a happier and more whole Dean, like last season, but I think what they've set up this season has huge potential and has brought some of Jensen's best work .I guess we'll see if they drop it.
Or perhaps allow him to be what he was for many season before the writers decided to make him into a plot device and not a character in his own right? Sam was an excellent hunter and I for one whould love to see him return to being the guy who is all about saving people. I dont think the answer to the Sam cunundrum is for him to have to save Dean I think that would be a good place to go this season, if Sam saves Dean from becoming too dark (beyond the point of no return) and uses all his brian power (we know he has it) to save him from the Mark of Cain curse (because thats what it is) then that would go a long way in Sam gaining back some of the identity he has lost these past 4 seasons. We need to see Sam's journey up to that point not just have him stand around making faces at whatever Dean is doing from episode to episode. We need to see him help Cas restore heaven and not take down Gadreel for revenge (because firstly that was Dean's trope this season) but to maybe try to help him see the error of his ways and help guide him to the right path. We need to see Sam embrace the MOL because that storyline is where Carver should be fully investing Sam's character more than any other (Charlie ahem) we need to see Sam get back his sense of self so that he can help Dean find his at the end of the season. Then they will be able to build on that for characterisation next seaosn. After this season I dont want another brother needing saving scenario.
ReplyDeleteHi Tessa,
ReplyDeleteI don't know how you delve into the story line you must be glued to the TV, I thought I was good but your awesome.
My only fault where I pick up on the brothers is that I get the feeling that Sam is being written as the BAD brother and Dean the Good. Everything Sam does reflects on Dean being the elder and father figure. Seeing the story unfold from the finale during season 8 I still find it so hard to get my head around that Sam wanted to Die, and be so suicidal that the 'SO' remark clearly suggests that he didn't care at that particular moment whether he lived or died. His talk with Death on the couch he was felt so strongly about that he didn't want Dean or something supernatural to come in and bring him back. He was adamant that the end was the end. Now during season 7 in the hospital I could get why he wanted out he was tired of Lucifer and driven loopy and couldn't see a way forward. Then we fast forward to season 8 finale and he was really happy and upbeat that he was of sound mind and in a good place because they were closing the gates of heaven and hell. Moving on to season 9, whether it was Gadreel talking I don't know at this point in time. I suspect it was, that he was as happy as larry and content with his lot in life. So where does this actual moment from his life and deaths woes come to pass that he actually wants to die. Has Sam really had enough that he can't take it any more. He's as miserable as hell can't stand to be with Dean or hunting.
The stories to feel consistent with Sam. I don't get where the writers are taking him. I love Sam to bits, but the whole arc of what's wrong with him needs to change. We need to see Sam open up and show us what's going on in that smart brain of his. This time Dean has betrayed him, just as he did with Ruby during season 4. But they seem to by-pass the real hard core of a main character and never flesh stuff out where they need to. Some of its not making much sense at all. Why does Sam want out, why does he desperately want to die. Maybe Tessa can shed some much needed light!
Bella
I'd argue Sam has been Sam since he got his soul back in season 6. He 100% has had an identity from season 7 to now. We've also seen his POV plenty of times during his story lines.
ReplyDeleteSam's not suicidal, him telling Cas to get more grace feels like it's tied more into revenge than suicide.
ReplyDeleteHe's never had to drive a car before that, so I doubt he knows what the fuel gage means.
ReplyDeleteNormally I agree with most of your reviews and learn a lot from what you have to say but this time I disagree with a lot. I do agree with the Sam torture trope but gripe 1 and 3 seem to conflict since you state that Sam never talks about what's going on in his head but then you say that a good writer knows not to have the character on a soap box and to simply show us what is going on. They have had Sam show us, quite a lot in fact when you think of the last several episodes as a whole. I think there was a lot to be learned in this about the rest of the season and the next one if there is a season 10. A huge storyline just got setup in this episode. Dean now has the mark of Cain and we heard Cain's story in what really happened and how he killed Abel to save his soul. Perhaps Dean and Sam will go down the same path and the change in the relationship with Dean and Crowley is so we don't feel quite as bad if Dean goes back to Hell and it will be completely different from his first stint. Anyway, my point is I think you need to look a second look at this episode. It was very full of promise and foreshadowing.
ReplyDelete-I could see the actor visibly struggling with the dialogue while trying
ReplyDeleteto do something to convey Cain’s personality. He did his best but it
still came out weak.-
That's cause Timothy is used to working on a show with consistently excellent writing.
I would LOVE a MOL storyline focussed on Sam. Dean can go about and bear the mark of Cain and have his mytharc and Sam can delve into Abel's story in the MOL bunker... working together yet apart.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with the Sam torture trope but gripe 1 and 3 seem to conflict since you state that Sam never talks about what's going on in his head but then you say that a good writer knows not to have the character on a soap box and to simply show us what is going on.There's nothing wrong with a character talking about his/her feelings on a particular event that has happened on the show. In some cases it is necessary. Like when Dean came back from hell and talked about his experience. There was no way to show all that due to time and budgetary considerations.
ReplyDeleteThis type of telling is called "Sequel" in writing and it is actually good, because it allows the viewers to get the POV of a character with regards to what they have watched.
What gripe #3 is addressing is characters telling us things we absolutely have no previous experience of. This type of telling is informing. It's not done to further a character's development. It's done to let the viewer know something they didn't know before. Either they need that information (for eg. about Cain being the baddest demon around) in which case the information has to be then backed up by action (Cain actually being a badass,) or the information isn't needed (Tara's opinion of Dean) in which case it's a waste of our time.
One thing I'd like to have as a special mention. I absolutely loved the whole Dean vs demons scene. In fact, the whole of Dean's storyline in this was all kinds of awesome.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things I have come to dislike about the show is how Sam and Dean's abilities and intelligence are often toned down (if not thrown out) in order write up the guest star - or rather, the guest character. And while it was acceptable once or twice a season, like in the beginning, nowadays that seems to be the case all too frequently. The writers seem to have fallen in love with this tropes - you have your monster of the week put down by either its loved one or the guest star they are trying to present in a good light, while the boys are either pinned, unconscious or otherwise incapacitated. Which kind of devalues their sacrificing everything to hunt, because what's the point if normal people can become just as good at it.
In this episode, Dean was in rare form, from figuring out Cain's' motivations to seeing through Crowley's deception. I especially mentioned the fighting demons part because back in the second episode, Gadreel-as-Sam killed three demons and let Dean take the credit and Sam didn't seem buy it. Dean's reply - "I'm just that awesome." - was met with skepticism. But in this episode, he proved that yes, he is that awesome and there is a reason why every demon knows the name Dean Winchester.