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POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - Sharp Teeth?

Jan 29, 2014

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174 comments:

  1. FredaJanuary 29, 2014 at 2:59 AM

    I really didn't like the episode. I am so sick of damsel Sam. Does anyone remember once upon a time he was actually a hunter? He didn't even try to fight the sheriff or the stepmom. Garth and Betsy really didn't do much for me and they kinda dragged down the episode. And did anyone else think of the Stepford Wives when everyone was singing?

    Other side notes - loved Sam's blue car. I was disappointed that the Mark of Cain didn't provided protection. The Blame Game is getting old.

    My sound was cutting out on the ending speech and I didn't understand the end - If you wanna work, let's work. If you wanna be brothers....was Sam saying that it was going to take some work?

    ReplyDelete
  2. klutzy_girlJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:01 AM

    It started off kinda slow, but got better. I'm glad Garth is okay and they didn't kill him! I was really worried about that. And that stepmom looked like Mary.

    They should direct that girl from last season to this place. Aww at Dean hugging Garth at the end. That was cute!


    That end conversation between Sam and Dean was giving me some serious season five premiere vibes, but it turned out better this time. And they do need to work at their relationship. Couples counselor maybe?

    Great episode!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Jay AtkinsonJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:30 AM

    I hope not, because that was essentially how the arc from season 1-5 wrapped up. If all this work is merely to loop back around to the same character developmental conclusions, I will be disappointed.

    ReplyDelete
  4. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:30 AM

    Yep. Dean too, in different ways, but more Sam as they've made him pretty useless. It's bad when writers make characters I love unlikeable and unrecognizable. I love Dean, the Dean I knew, and Sam I always liked too. The last few years I've come to really dislike what they've done with them, especially Sam.


    It's funny how they were written smarter in Season 1 and 2 and parts of other seasons. You'd think the older they'd get the more they'd learn. The writers aren't allowing for progress.

    ReplyDelete
  5. JenJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:32 AM

    Sigh. Another jumbled 2 minute attempt from the writers re: Sam's POV that doesn't line up with the other ones we get twice a season. How much they must panic at the thought of writing a sensible thought process for him. Too difficult to have Sam point out that Dean tricking him into being possessed by an angel was crossing the line and would result in trust issues apparently. Not like Sam would have issues about being possessed before or anything! Instead Adam Glass just threw a few words in about trust and family to finish off a quite boring ep and hoped for the best. I know the current writing team trashed any attempts at lining up with previous canon and characterisations quite a while ago but come on!

    ReplyDelete
  6. lala2January 29, 2014 at 3:39 AM

    Excellent post!



    It's episodes like these that confirm - to me - that the writers have NO clue what makes Sam Winchester tick and have NO clue how to write for him. As you said, how difficult is it to give him clear, sensible dialogue? How difficult is it to have him simply say he's worried that they put each other above the missions/hunts/etc? How difficult is it to have him express regret for not forging ahead w/the trials last year b/c of his love/bond for Dean? You don't write him as essentially blaming Dean for his own choices! ARGH!!!



    After watching that travesty of a conversation, I wish Sam and Dean had just gone their separate ways or Sam had just gotten in the Impala and said nothing!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Tom KeiferloverJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:45 AM

    This was my first time voting poor. I was repeating to myself in my head that I enjoyed that episode, but I'm just being realistic. That episode was not good. Sam and Dean always fight and get back the same episode or the next. It's tiring now. I LOVE Supernatural still but no... that episode needs major editing. Since when does Dean let monsters live? He said once 'monsters die no matter what.' He obviously forgot about that. Although I really liked Garth, I mean, I'm surprised Dean never tried to kill him or the other werewolves. The other problem- it's pretty darn clear the mother was an evil little cockroach. They made everything SO obvious in that episode, almost no effort was put into it. In most episodes, you're stuck in a guessing game; 'Is he tricking them?' "Is he evil?" "Does Sam/Dean get hurt?" But nooo, this episode, you basically know everything... Now, Sam. Sam got me real mad. Saying he can't trust dean? Wow Sammy, great reply. Considering he started the freaking apocoalypse, betrayed Dean for Ruby, opened the gates, left Dean in the Purgatory without looking... Whenever Dean makes mistakes, it's sooooo bad like he's not aloud to make mistakes. When Sam does, he begs Dean for mercy and stresses over it.

    ReplyDelete
  8. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:46 AM

    Ghostfacers too (for them both). Dean isn't marginalized, just screwed by the writers in other ways. I love how the writers keep having Dean pull the "we're family" card like that's cure all. It shouldn't be.


    A better way would have been to say he understands they have issues to work through and that he knows Sam needs time, but he wants to continue to hunt and hopefully eventually he can gain his trust back.


    As for Sam he should have not blamed the trials on Dean but instead Gadreel, and focus on that.


    And they need to stop running back and forth. Stay and sort through your issues guys or stay apart for a long while and think.

    ReplyDelete
  9. lala2January 29, 2014 at 3:47 AM

    I hear ya, but Sam got the extra bad dialogue tonight. Blaming Dean for him stopping the trials? That was too much and isn't even what happened. All Glass had to do was focus on Gadreel or all the other times they have sacrificed the mission for each other, and it's backfired. That's it. He could have used the trials, but the emphasis should have been on Sam stopping the trials b/c of his love/bond w/Dean, not on Dean manipulating him or whatever crap Glass wrote!

    ReplyDelete
  10. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:48 AM

    Oh definitely, Sam gets the worst.

    ReplyDelete
  11. kerindaJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:48 AM

    why because he is tell the truth for once. God really I am sick of this Sam something that he wanted to say and you bitch about he is Goddamn hurt by what Dean did and has every right to say it I get sick everytime Dean tell Sam he does not trust him and the 1st time Sam said it you piss on him Come on.

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  12. lala2January 29, 2014 at 3:52 AM

    I truly believe it will.



    Though the actual dialogue was crappy and awkward, Sam was essentially saying that their brotherhood causes people to get killed. Their love for each other is the problem. This appears to be Carver's theme. He wants to break the brotherhood and the bond.


    Sam learned the "lesson," and now, it's Dean's turn. The only way Dean will truly learn the lesson is for Sam to die and Dean accept that death. I see this happening in the series finale if Carver is still at the helm. IMO, he hates the brotherhood and the bond the boys share. At every turn, he has demonized it or spun it in a negative light.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Tom KeiferloverJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:55 AM

    Sam also triggered the end of the world(almost), left Dean to rot away in the Purgatory without looking, betrayed him for Ruby, lied to him too. Dean said he couldn't trust Sam, but do you seriously think he meant that? It's Dean! Dean obviously trusts Sam, just not for a few episodes. But it's Sam that has trusting issues.. He can hold grudges pretty well.

    ReplyDelete
  14. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:59 AM

    Sam didn't kill Kevin, Gadreel did.


    Dean is to blame for taking away Sam's choice of saying yes.
    Gadreel is to blame for Kevin's death (Dean and Sam were both manipulated).
    Sam is to blame for getting back in that car (I think they needed more time apart to sort through issues and to wake up and realize they need to stop repeating argument cycles or at least handle their repeat mistakes more maturely).

    ReplyDelete
  15. patriotfallJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:02 AM

    Wow,this episode was seriously disappointing.

    The constant arguing, being brothers and thinking everything is alright, then come BACK to arguing between Sam and Dean has gotten ridiculous and I am at the point where I am sick of it. I love these two to death but I have never seen two characters more in need of couple's therapy. They seriously need to learn from their mistakes and move on for good. Ugh, and it looks like they're not going to talk about it in the next episode.

    And hopefully this is the last time we see Garth for a long time. Just a poor episode all around.

    ReplyDelete
  16. kerindaJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:03 AM

    I do not get it anymore if there was a better writer what would have Sam say? we get what we got that's it there could be more in the next Ep we do not know just let him finish his thought for once not say something and do not finish want he was saying or something like that I got all mixed up on that.

    ReplyDelete
  17. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:04 AM

    Dean has been letting monsters go for a while. It's not that new.


    I didn't see the step-mom being bad except for the fact she was a step-mom. The brothers I knew would be bad.


    Dean and Sam both need to grow up as they both make mistakes and ask for forgiveness after. The writers are lousy at character development.

    ReplyDelete
  18. lala2January 29, 2014 at 4:05 AM

    I have no idea why Sam is always given vague or unfinished dialogue! I wish someone would just have him say what he wants, feels, needs. It's beyond ridiculous at this point.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Dominick GraceJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:06 AM

    An evil stepmother? Really?

    ReplyDelete
  20. kerindaJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:09 AM

    well he did not need to bring it up every damn time to Sam for the last 4 season's that can hurt somebody what if someone you care about say they can't trust you every min of you life you will feel hurt too.

    ReplyDelete
  21. CyanaTJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:09 AM

    That was my interpretation, although I don't know that I would necessarily agree with the Sam dying and Dean accepting but this is very valid scenario.


    I think that Glass didn't have Sam finish his thought was one of the times I admire Glass's recent writing of Sam.

    ReplyDelete
  22. lala2January 29, 2014 at 4:29 AM

    I guess you are right about that. Dean doesn't normally trust monsters and usually wants to kill all of them.

    ReplyDelete
  23. lala2January 29, 2014 at 4:33 AM

    You guys are right. I guess I just found his blatantly rude attitude off putting in ways I haven't before . . . . probably b/c they invited him into their home and were basically friendly and nice to him. The attitude seemed unnecessary. I understand being cautious, but as you guys pointed out, this is how usually Dean behaves around monsters.

    ReplyDelete
  24. lala2January 29, 2014 at 4:35 AM

    I would be fine w/that. However, I do believe Carver wants Sam dead dead, you know?

    ReplyDelete
  25. lala2January 29, 2014 at 4:37 AM

    I think that Glass didn't have Sam finish his thought was one of the times I admire Glass's recent writing of Sam.

    I'm curious . . . why? I'd love to read more interpretations on the scene/dialogue.

    ReplyDelete
  26. lala2January 29, 2014 at 4:39 AM

    It is a start, but I can't help thinking if Dean were in Sam's shoes, we would know Dean's thoughts/feelings by now. We weren't left guessing why Dean left. He flat out told us why he was leaving. In S7, it was never very clear to me why Sam left Dean or what that whole Amy conflict was even about it.

    I just feel no effort or thought is put into Sam.

    ReplyDelete
  27. lala2January 29, 2014 at 4:42 AM

    I think the problem w/Sam's dialogue is it wasn't very clear - at least to me - what Sam is angry about. What is causing him pain? Is he upset that Dean let an angel possess him? Is he upset that Dean talked him out of completing the trials? Is he upset that Dean lied to him? What's the issue?



    I honestly feel like I walk around in a fog when it comes to Sam. I've never people say his POV is plain and clear, but I don't ever quite get it. I would honestly just appreciated some clear, plain dialogue for Sam.

    ReplyDelete
  28. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:45 AM

    Sam's the one that is more polite. Always has been better at interviewing victims and not immediately pre-judging monsters.

    ReplyDelete
  29. lala2January 29, 2014 at 4:46 AM

    True. That's why they are a good balance and a good team. I wish Carver would remember that.

    ReplyDelete
  30. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:48 AM

    Yeah, me too. Someone needs to sit down the writers and make them take notes on Kripke's run of episodes (especially the early ones).

    ReplyDelete
  31. elle j.January 29, 2014 at 4:49 AM

    It's way past time to fix the relationship between the brothers and it's not that difficult. Have Sam tell Dean that he wasn't able to look for Dean in Purgatory because he had a breakdown. It's believable because if anyone was going to snap it would be Sam. Plus that is something Sam would be very reluctant to tell Dean out of shame and/or fear that his brother would treat him as though he was fragile. Sam was able to recover and then met Amelia.

    All Dean has to do is tell Sam the circumstances that lead him to stop Sam from completing the trials while trying to save his brother by means of a deceptive angel. Sam would understand if Dean would open up and explain instead of walking away from this family conflict.

    ReplyDelete
  32. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:49 AM

    I think the writers just make them seem immature.

    ReplyDelete
  33. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:51 AM

    Basically they just need to take responsibility for their wrongs and tell each other what's on their minds and be completely honest.

    ReplyDelete
  34. kerindaJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:51 AM

    well what you going to do its the writers they do not know how to write Sam out of a paper bag anymore. Just got to take what they give us I just here to look at Jared that's it just to see him every week make me happy I do not care what's going on anymore just to look at him make my week that's it. Ha Ha!

    ReplyDelete
  35. percysownerJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:54 AM

    He may well want Sam dead dead, but that won't happen until the end of the show. The consensus is that in the end, the show is about the brothers. We're one of the top rated shows on the CW and Jared and Jensen are contracted for next season, so it won't end this season. Mark Pedowitz has already said he's willing to have the show run as long as it can, so if they can sign Jared and Jensen it could go on for seasons. I'm just not sure Carver will be able to kill Sam permanently. That's the only reason I'm not too worried about a permanent Sam death.

    ReplyDelete
  36. SPN FickleJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:54 AM

    And Weekend at Bobby's. Of course Jensen was directing, so there was a good reason for the episode to be Dean-lite.

    ReplyDelete
  37. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:55 AM

    It was also Sam light. Sam was with Dean.

    ReplyDelete
  38. kerindaJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:57 AM

    I want that too just tell us already but there is so many lets just say he is pissed I hope he will say it on the next Ep but will just wait and see I do hope it soon too so they can talk it over or the writers will just F-ed it up like they allway's do now.

    ReplyDelete
  39. lala2January 29, 2014 at 4:58 AM

    That would have been a good explanation for the OOC mess that was Sam early last year, but Carver would never do it. He thought it was mature of Sam to ditch Kevin and Dean. Sam made all the right choices in Carver's mind so we will just have to get used to this new brotherhood where they do nothing to save each other.

    ReplyDelete
  40. MeggieJanuary 29, 2014 at 5:00 AM

    Don't see Carver having ''Demonized'' their relation. Since forever their dependance of each other cause problems, death, lead for bad guy to use them and make some destruction in one way or another. Nothing wrong with them seeing it, the problem is the way it's written and the fact they realise that over and over again.

    ReplyDelete
  41. lala2January 29, 2014 at 5:00 AM

    Oh, I don't think he'll do it until the series finale. I guess it truly depends on how long he wants to drag out this "lesson" for Dean.

    ReplyDelete
  42. elle j.January 29, 2014 at 5:01 AM

    I agree Sam and Dean need to clear the air once and for all. The one thing that can't be explained away though is why Sam did not at least try to save Dean in purgatory. It just makes no sense and completely went against Sam's character, especially after Sam tried so hard to save Dean from hell.

    ReplyDelete
  43. lala2January 29, 2014 at 5:02 AM

    Well, according to the show and Carver, Sam thought Dean was dead. Putting aside the fact that that makes no sense at all, that was the story last year. Sam thought Dean was dead, which explains why he did not try to rescue Dean from Purgatory.

    ReplyDelete
  44. JoJanuary 29, 2014 at 5:16 AM

    Oh my god, I just feel like I've watched tonight's end scene 184 times (that's how many episodes there are, fyi) They either need to punch each other, hug each other, or get a family shrink. But something's gotta give.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Tom KeiferloverJanuary 29, 2014 at 5:25 AM

    I know they both make mistakes. I'm not on 100% Dean for this. Dean lied to Sam, I could see Sam being pissed off if he wanted to die. I would be mad too. Dean let some angel he had no idea about let him in. So Dean is kind of not all right either. But Sam shouldn't be saying 'I can't trust you anymore' is taking it to far. I know Dean said that to Sam before, but that was when the who Lucifer thing was going on. I know Sam needs time, but Dean always kept his hiney alive and sacraficed himself.


    I'm not saying Dean doesn't ask for forgiveness. He does, but sometimes he is more stubborn about it. And it was OBVIOUS the step mom was bad. From the moment you opened the door, you could basically tell she was trouble .I'm not being a typical stereotype. If you didn't see how she acted the whole time, then you don't understand.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Donna CJanuary 29, 2014 at 5:34 AM

    Haven't had the chance to watch this ... but did they really do what I wanted them to do? Make Garth a werewolf and give him his own pack? Then Dean lets him live at the end, and they all run away never to be heard from again?

    ReplyDelete
  47. Donna CJanuary 29, 2014 at 5:35 AM

    -I have no idea why Sam is always given vague or unfinished dialogue! I
    wish someone would just have him say what he wants, feels, needs.-

    Because the writers themselves legit don't know either.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Donna CJanuary 29, 2014 at 5:38 AM

    But WAB was a good episode. At least, I thought so. I mean, hell, it had what's his face in it, too. Damn, what was the black dude's name?

    ReplyDelete
  49. Donna CJanuary 29, 2014 at 5:39 AM

    Really, you can't understand why Sam feels that way?

    ReplyDelete
  50. Donna CJanuary 29, 2014 at 5:41 AM

    The way they're rewriting canon, it wouldn't surprise me. But then I thought "The End" was retconned when they stopped Lucifer and Michael's bitchfight at the end of season five.

    ReplyDelete
  51. EmilyJanuary 29, 2014 at 5:59 AM

    "I'm gonna hurt all of you." Hahahaha...just wow.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 6:18 AM

    That was the point of Sam's speech. It's not a cure all anymore.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 6:19 AM

    Dean let Lenore go in season 2, he let Benny and Kate go in season 8.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 6:20 AM

    Six seasons ago most episodes seemed to involve Dean calling Bela and Ruby b**** every week and then talk about going to Hell or not going to Hell, so that wasn't too hard to call plotwise.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 6:21 AM

    I think Sam is upset that he doesn't get his own choices. I think he wants to die, or wanted to die at the time, and feels Dean took that away from him in the church and then at the hospital. He no longer trusts that he wanted to live.


    I get that. I just didn't like the dialogue.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 6:22 AM

    Sam feels like he killed Kevin.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 6:25 AM

    Dean and Sam have always been smart or dumb depending on the plotline of the week. It just depends on the writer of said episode.


    In Sam's case, he's still useful in some episodes, like Pac-Man Fever last season. But he hasn't been Sam for such a long time (Gadreel), so now he's just back to being Sam, basically.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 6:26 AM

    I don't think they're doing this to have Sam die. I think they're doing this to have Dean learn to not interfere and make matters worse. I think they may have a situation near the end where Sam could die, but saves himself.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 6:29 AM

    Boring episode. I appreciate what Sam was saying to Dean at the end - it's not enough to be brothers now, we have to work together and then earn that back. The dialogue wasn't great.


    Don't care about Garth and his wife was a cipher.


    Best part was Dean kicking ass, and how gorgeous he looked, and his scene talking about Kevin.

    ReplyDelete
  60. HellboyJanuary 29, 2014 at 6:29 AM

    How does that not make sense? Dean uses a weapon that's meant to kill Dick gets caught in the blast radius and disappears, It's easy to think he died, especially since he can't make contact with Castiel. He had no reason to believe they were sucked into Purgatory.

    ReplyDelete
  61. HellboyJanuary 29, 2014 at 6:46 AM

    Purebloods can transform before, during, and after the lunar cycle, and have more control over themselves.



    Also, since the Apocalypse was averted, it made the natural order a bit screwy, and werewolves are able to transform on half-moons now.

    ReplyDelete
  62. HellboyJanuary 29, 2014 at 6:49 AM

    There's no more retconning now than in the Kripke years.


    And "The End" wasn't a time travel episode, it was an alternate reality, a what if scenerio if Dean didn't say yes.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Misty PebworthJanuary 29, 2014 at 6:50 AM

    I loved this episode overall. I like Garth and enjoy him more the more episodes he plays in. I was definitely a little skeptical the first one, but he's amusing enough to earn his place. Loved the special effects for him trying to wolf out and bring unable to due to the chains.

    Did not like sam's words in the end to dean. Some think he's justified, but seriously, he was just bring a jerk. Sam's had those moments in the past, and I feel this is one now, no mater how many down arrows I'll get for saying so. I love Sam, and can understand wheree he coming from, but at the same time, dean has been through just as much crap as he has. They've both had it hard, they've both been to hell and back, and literally the only one no seems keen on giving up at every rough patch is Sam. He didn't look for his brother in purgatory, and never explained why, and with this episode, I'm leaning towards him just wanting out and taking that as an opportunity. Sam's /always/ wanted out, and that motivates everything he does. Dean sees hunting as a duty, Sam sees it as a burden.

    Hate me for saying this if you will, but I love both the boys equally and while dean may be a compulsive liar when it suits him, Sam should have just stayed with Amelia and been done with a hunting life he -never wanted-.

    ReplyDelete
  64. HellboyJanuary 29, 2014 at 6:52 AM

    I see it as Sam stopping himself from saying something much worse/regrettable.

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  65. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 6:53 AM

    Agreed. The retconning started season 3 or 4, if not sooner. It's more clumsy in recent years, sometimes.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 6:53 AM

    That was one of the more realistic parts of this for me.

    ReplyDelete
  67. HellboyJanuary 29, 2014 at 7:05 AM

    Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead episode are always fun to see.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Misty PebworthJanuary 29, 2014 at 7:08 AM

    ..you left out the part about it being a hard decision for Dean, and him bring extremely conflicted about it, AND that he did it to save his brother's life when Sam was practically suicidal (he wanted to die. Wanted out. Perhaps in the belief that it would prevent others from getting hurt, but that's an exceptionally twisted stance to take. People die all the time, and they've saved far more lives then they've supposedly ruined. A suicidal or severely depressed person is likely to think the world would be better without them too. This is why I say suicidal.)

    So, oh no..the horror..dean let an angel and demon in Sam's body to save him. Surely that justifys Sam basically saying they're not brothers, and laughing mockingly when dean said they were family.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Luis LJanuary 29, 2014 at 7:11 AM

    It wasn't unfair. He was tricked into being possessed by an angel. He wanted to die.

    ReplyDelete
  70. JeanneMJanuary 29, 2014 at 7:22 AM

    I'm not sure how I felt about the episode. I spent the entire hour being mesmerized by Jensen's stubble. It's like one of those twisty-turny, pinwheelie, you-are-getting-sleepy spirally things. One minute Sam is yammering about something, the next Jensen's stubble is calling me and I'm trotting off to lick my TV screen.

    ReplyDelete
  71. littlebit561January 29, 2014 at 7:40 AM

    This episode was kinda sad because of the brothers and feeling that why they always hurt each other. I guess it true. Garth having a werewolf family was so wired but cool storyline. I can't wait for the next episode. Seeing how the brothers will work together.

    ReplyDelete
  72. sharonallyJanuary 29, 2014 at 7:49 AM

    That is true I actually do not think Sam not looking for Dean is the issue right now . Something else happened between that and where we are in this ridiculous relationship . People are already screaming at Sam over what he said at the end forgetting Dean said almost exactly the same thing at the end of the season 5 premiere which they supported.

    ReplyDelete
  73. malooseJanuary 29, 2014 at 7:59 AM

    This episode was amazingly stupid!

    And the most waited making up dialogue:
    Dean: Talking and talking
    Sam: .... OK
    Dean: Talking and talking
    Sam: .... OK .... talking .... family is bad!

    Thank you Carver for teaching us that this precious constant of the show, "family", is the a bad thing!

    (And I can't ignore this, whenever they have these making up conversations, Dean is always eager to end the dispute no matter whose fault it is. But Carver/Glass' Sam is always a dick, Southern Comfort and now this! C'mon! Mopping the dust under the carpet won't solve anything, but honestly your super amazing plot/dialogue won't either. Besides one thing I learned from this show is that that dust would never become trouble, apparently as times passes, this dust disappears too!!!)

    ReplyDelete
  74. isleofskyeJanuary 29, 2014 at 9:03 AM

    Well, I couldn't believe these writers could come up with worse episodes than they have already given us but they continue to surprise!
    x
    This was boring and cringe-worthy.
    Goody -goody Garth and his sweet little werewolf wife could have caused an outbreak of supernatural diabetes, and the two werewolves and bad stepmother were as predictable as anything.

    There was NOTHING in this episode that was positive! Oh wait I lie. Sam ripping the hospital files from Dean's hand was the best there was.
    x
    WTH. Dean tells Sam about the Mark of Cain and Sam doesn't freak out or even look worried?
    What has Carver done to theese brothers ? What is he turning this unique show into?
    Brothers who would live and die for each other and what are we left wit?.Two straangers who don't care about each other any more and just stay together because of the Hunt?
    x
    Sam, Dean. Both of you go off, pick up a nice girl and settle down and have lots of Winchester offspring. Why on earth are you torturing youselves sitting together in the Impala when your making each other miserable.
    x
    Carver, you wanted the brothers' relationship to be more mature. You've succeeded in your intent. I hope you're happy because, I'm sure I and many others who watch this show for the brothers and their love and caring for one another, are not!

    ReplyDelete
  75. HellboyJanuary 29, 2014 at 9:09 AM

    Well, stop watching if you aren't getting any enjoyment from it anymore. It's a simply concept.

    ReplyDelete
  76. isleofskyeJanuary 29, 2014 at 9:20 AM

    My feelings exactly. :(

    ReplyDelete
  77. isleofskyeJanuary 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM

    So true. Unfortunately for Carver, the show was built on the brothers' 'unhealthy relationship'. So why doesn't he just get over it and stop trying to ruin the heart and soul of the show

    ReplyDelete
  78. RossJanuary 29, 2014 at 9:33 AM

    Well that episode happened.

    ReplyDelete
  79. isleofskyeJanuary 29, 2014 at 9:34 AM

    The fact that I consider the writing for the show to be terrible doesn't mean I don't still love the comcept of the show, and I will keep watching and defending Sam and Dean till the end.

    ReplyDelete
  80. SupernaturallyMeJanuary 29, 2014 at 9:37 AM

    For me, the episode was okay for what it was; just a way to get the brothers back in each others' space. I suspect the emotional issues will be dealt with later. I feel like it's all building up towards something big.


    Sam's response to the Mark was a little underwhelming, but I predict a bigger reaction later when he learns more about it. I actually see Cas being more pissed 'cause he probably knows all about it.


    Oh, and Dean's fighting was awesome. Whether or not it's because of the mark, I have no idea...

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  81. FredaJanuary 29, 2014 at 11:56 AM

    I would love to see Sam save himself.

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  82. lala2January 29, 2014 at 12:31 PM

    Great post, Isle! What show are we going to be left with when both Dean and Sam are like, "Oh, Dean/Sam died. That's sad. Onto the next hunt b/c that's the only thing that matters."

    I never thought I'd see the day where this show espouses the idea that loving your brother and not wanting him to die is a problem. Carver is destroying the brotherhood, and I'm not even sure why.

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  83. lala2January 29, 2014 at 12:35 PM

    The dialogue was clunky and just plain bad. What you just wrote was clear and to the point. Sam's roundabout, weirdo way of talking just made the whole thing awkward, unclear, and confusing.

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  84. percysownerJanuary 29, 2014 at 12:37 PM

    Yes to Garth being a werewolf and in a pack. Sadly Garth feels guilty about Kevin so he asks if he can hunt with Dean because his senses are better than a human being. Dean says no for now, but maybe one day there will be a hunt that can use wereGarth. So never to be heard from again is overly optimistic.

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  85. lala2January 29, 2014 at 12:40 PM

    Because Sam was not left w/a dead body. Because they have both disappeared before w/o being dead. Because Sam didn't even look into the situation.

    I have no problem w/Sam deciding Dean was dead. I do have a problem w/Carver not showing Sam even doing minimal research to come up w/that conclusion. Nothing about his crappy story would have changed if he had Sam say he researched and concluded that Dean must have died. I don't see that as immature or wrong, but Carver clearly does.

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  86. lala2January 29, 2014 at 12:45 PM

    I didn't get that at all from Sam's dialogue, which illustrates the problem w/Sam's dialogue always been so clunky and muddled.

    In the church, Sam was desperate to not let Dean down. He wanted to complete the trials so Dean would think better of him. When Dean told Sam that nothing would ever come between them and that he didn't need Sam to completed the trials in some misguided attempt to earn Dean's approval, Sam stopped. Sam made that choice. He can't now blame Dean for it, or he needs to recognize in a later episode that he's more angry at himself than Dean.

    Anyway, I think the best thing would be for the writers to give Sam some clear, direct dialogue.

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  87. percysownerJanuary 29, 2014 at 12:50 PM

    Sam was not suicidal, he was dying and didn't want to be kept alive by supernatural means. And it was a hard decision for Dean? Well hard decisions have consequences. Dean got off scot free with blow back from Sam when he sold his soul. He's STILL holding Ruby against Sam, as are many on this board, and you're fine with that.

    Gadreel raped Sam psychically with Dean's permission and help. If Gad had been a good guy who did no wrong, Sam would have been right to be mad at Dean. But Gad used his body to murder a friend. Sam will always see his hand killing Kevin and see Kevin looking at him when Kevin died. And Dean won't even allow Sam to talk about how he feels about that.

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  88. lala2January 29, 2014 at 12:58 PM

    What do you think that could be?

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  89. tvmonkeyJanuary 29, 2014 at 1:00 PM

    I saw it as Sam conveying that the brotherhood needs to be worked on much like the line is unfinished so is the brothers relationship. They both have an open ending which could go in any direction depending on what happens down the line and on each brother.

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  90. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 2:37 PM

    True. It's the writers. But either way aren't all hunters deciding who lives and dies? It's just that some kill all monsters assuming they've evil or they wait and see if the monster does something wrong.

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  91. SPN FickleJanuary 29, 2014 at 2:42 PM

    I don't believe Sam was saying they aren't brothers. I think he was saying their problems are based on the fact that they are brothers. The lengths they will go to for each oter are the issue. Think about it.

    Before I go through my list, I believe that even if Sam had died and Gadreel had not been let into the bunker, Metatron would still have had Kevin as his first target and Kevin would have been toast as soon as he was tracked down. The difference is that Sam wouldn't have the memory of it and they both wouldn't fell as guilty as the do now... But, it kind of counts because of the guilt they both have now.

    1) They could have closed the gates of Hell.
    2) Dean wouldn't have made a deal that sent him to Hell and broke the first seal.
    3) Sam wouldn't have started drinking blood for revenge against Lilith.
    4) Although he was unsuccessful, Dean attempted to get Sam out of the cage, which may have let Lucifer out.
    4) Sam appeared to have spared no effort to get Dean out of Hell... Like trying to open the gate to Hell in the cemetery. That could have been really.bad.

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  92. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 2:49 PM

    My thoughts on The End wasn't take it was going to happen Lucifer and all. It was that Bobby died, Cas became human and died (however both were temporary), and Dean may change into a person he won't want to be, etc. I wasn't expecting the Apocalypse happen - but it would have been fun to play with some of the events and connections - make a nod to it.

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  93. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 2:50 PM

    Yeah, retconning started early on, but was way less noticeable to me and not done constantly.

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  94. SPN FickleJanuary 29, 2014 at 2:54 PM

    I agree, when they hugged my jaw dropped open. Then, Sam left the room so Dean can have his heart to heart and I thought "there is the show I know".

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  95. percysownerJanuary 29, 2014 at 2:57 PM

    The thing is if The End shows up even in parallel, then Sam has absolutely nothing to do. Sam had NO part in the Endverse. He was a Lucifer condom and nothing more. If this becomes The End, they might as well just give Jared his money and tell him to move close to his family, because he's no longer in the story anymore. And if he is in the story, well then he's the bad, evil, horrible villain again because he's too weak to play a part.

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  96. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 2:59 PM

    Not everyone can be as observing as you about guest characters.

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  97. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:01 PM

    I know that, and Dean blames himself too. The both of them a guilt ridden. They always blame themselves for everything.

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  98. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:04 PM

    You don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying EVERYTHING comes to pass, I'm saying there are just bits and pieces that have ALREADY happened that reminded me of The End - maybe even can count Sam being vesseled by Gadreel. It does not mean I want The End. I was just having a bit of fun connecting dots that the writers are by accident making (apparently).

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  99. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM

    Rufus. I miss Rufus. And many others.

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  100. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 3:39 PM

    The show was built around a more positive and open relationship between the brothers. The more toxic stuff didn't come in until around season 3 or 4.

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  101. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 3:42 PM

    I agree with you. Sam needs to own his part of stopping the trials. I think right now, he can't. I think he feels like he was manipulated into the choice, because of what Dean did at the hospital.

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  102. Bec666January 29, 2014 at 3:45 PM

    Couldn't agree more. This is getting so old and tired it is ridiculous. We have been there and done this to death. Have them make up, and be on equal ground once and for all and MOVE ON.

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  103. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 3:50 PM

    I don't think they were saying family is bad. I think they were saying what happens in the name of "family" is bad.

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  104. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 3:52 PM

    Sam generally doesn't "freak out" about anything, at least not in recent years.

    I think he's probably worried, but it's not an issue right now. He's living day by day.

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  105. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 3:53 PM

    The point, I hope, is to see Dean and Sam both happy and healthy (as much as you can be on this show) on their own terms. The message of Swan Song was that if you let your brother kill himself, he will be happy. I'm hoping that this is moving toward Sam not wanting to die, and both brothers being in an OK place.

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  106. Peter J4January 29, 2014 at 3:53 PM

    I'm hoping that was the point of this and now it's done.

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  107. isleofskyeJanuary 29, 2014 at 4:07 PM

    I doubt we will ever be in agreement.
    I'm not interested in seeing the brothers having an apple pie life. It just isn't possible for them, given their past history. They are both completely co-dependent on each other, primarily because there is no one else in the world that they can completely unburden themselves to.
    x
    They have both tried, Sam even twice and it just doesn't work out.
    This IS the show, always has been, andI wouldn't want it any other way.
    They are destined to be soul-mates in their heavenly Winchesterland and if the worst comes to the worst, I hope they go out together and end up roaming around in the Impala for all eternity.

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  108. lala2January 29, 2014 at 5:03 PM

    I hear you. I am not sure what Carver wants to accomplish w/the brothers either. I also don't know if his plans relate to Sam at all.


    I can only go back to this idea of "maturity" he rattled on about last year. If Sam not even attempting to investigate his brother's disappearance was the "mature" course of action, I can only assume Dean accepting his brother's fate and eventual death will be equally mature in Carver's eyes. He seems to think the way the brothers relate to each other is very unhealthy and needs to be fixed.


    He moved Sam to that place last year w/his failure to look for Dean, and the only character development I see occurring is for Dean. It seems Carver wants to show Dean "maturing," and he will really only be able to show that if Sam actually dies. Sam has to die, and Dean has to accept it for Carver's "lesson" to be learned, IMO.


    That's just the vibe I get. Carver seems to think Sam wants to be dead, so i could see him killing Sam w/the idea that that completes Sam's arc over the course of the show. Dean can accept his brother's death and move on w/his life. I don't see him hunting once Sam is dead, but getting a family.

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  109. lala2January 29, 2014 at 5:09 PM

    That was not the message I got from Swan Song. The message I got from SS was that Sam was atonement and acceptance. Sam was atoning for his mistake in trusting Ruby and freeing Lucifer, and Dean was accepting Sam's decision. Sam didn't want to kill himself; he wanted to right a wrong he committed. And Dean wasn't happy that Sam was going to do it, but there was no other choice. Sam felt he had released Lucifer, and it was up to him to put Lucifer back.


    And like Isle, I am not at all interested in two healthy, normal brothers. That's NOT this show, and Carver shouldn't be trying to change the show into that.

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  110. lala2January 29, 2014 at 5:22 PM

    But then Sam should have said that. The gist of his comments were "We can't be hunters AND brothers." Okay . . . what does that even mean?


    This the main problem w/Sam's dialogue. It is often awkward and choppy!

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  111. lala2January 29, 2014 at 5:29 PM

    Well, I can only hope Sam's POV is flushed out more in some future episodes. Right now, it is not clear to me if he truly blames Dean for stopping the trials or if he's just upset that his "body" killed Kevin.

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  112. lala2January 29, 2014 at 5:34 PM

    Hahaha! Me too. I was like, "Sam's getting a good-bye scene w/Garth?!?! Wow!!" And then the extra special good-bye w/Dean came w/the extra special hug. There was much more meaning in that Dean/Garth hug than the Sam/Garth one. Oh well.


    I must admit I also chuckled when Sam got promptly knocked out and tied up b/c people had been predicting that just that would happen earlier in the day. Haha!

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  113. lala2January 29, 2014 at 5:41 PM

    Yes, that would be best. You get more bees w/honey than vinegar anyway. I did find it interesting how gung ho Dean was to kill all the werewolves, incl. Garth. That was a bit extreme, IMO.

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  114. isleofskyeJanuary 29, 2014 at 5:56 PM

    Yeah, that could be what Carver is aiming for. When Dean wa swith Lisa, he wasn't happy because he knew Sam was suffering in the Cage, but if Carver 'matures' Dean then he might accept Sam's death this time and settled down. It's possible but I would hate that.

    I see it as a sad anti-climax for the bros.

    I'd rather they went out like Butch Cassidy and Sundance.

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  115. chris684January 29, 2014 at 6:30 PM

    There's so much wrong with this statement.

    - "Sam also triggered the end of the world(almost)"
    Both Sam and Dean did. Dean broke the first seal, Sam broke the last. Neither was intentional.

    - "left Dean to rot away in the Purgatory without looking"
    There's absolutely nothing to indicate that Sam knew Dean was in Purgatory. Sam has indicated he thought Dean was dead. People don't usually look for the dead.

    - "betrayed him for Ruby"
    This gets repeated over and over, but where exactly was the betrayal? Was it lying, because both brothers lie to each other over and over again? When Dean got out of Hell, one of the first things he did was lie to Sam about where he was when he was going with Bobby to try to summon the thing that brought him out of Hell. Sam never chose Ruby over Dean. He chose to use his powers against Dean's wishes. Not the same thing as a betrayal.

    - "Dean said he couldn't trust Sam, but do you seriously think he meant that?"

    Yes, I believed him at the time. He was angry, as Sam is angry now.

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  116. SuePoJanuary 29, 2014 at 7:02 PM

    Strange but true. :)

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  117. percysownerJanuary 29, 2014 at 8:37 PM

    I agree that the relationship between the brothers in the early seasons was not toxic. Season one was all about them rebuilding their relationship and becoming partners and equals. I felt it held up that way, minus some bumps, through season 3. Season four is where the imbalance really became apparent and even though Dean "let Sam go" in Swan Song, he never really treated Sam as an equal after season 3, IMHO.

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  118. percysownerJanuary 29, 2014 at 9:01 PM

    Chris684 responded well to most of this. I have one question. Dean KNEW that he left Cas in Purgatory. He BELIEVED that he let go of Cas, not that Cas let go of him. Yet he made not ONE move to get Cas out. He told Sam that Cas was "gone" which is often a euphemism for dead. He didn't look for ways to get Cas out. Where is your blame for Dean leaving Cas to rot in Purgatory? Because he did that without question. Or is your contempt for Sam only because it's Sam, because right now you are saying DEAN doing the action of leaving someone in Purgatory merits automatic understanding and forgiveness because Dean will feel bad if he doesn't get understanding and forgiveness; but Sam believing, however wrongly, that Dean was dead merits eternal condemnation because Dean feel hurt that Sam acted the way Dean did.

    Hey, if you hate Sam, that's your prerogative, but don't use the exact same actions to say Sam is wrong and Dean is right.

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  119. gogyJanuary 29, 2014 at 9:35 PM

    when Dean said that before was for reason , but why Sam say that , just for back the word to Dean :) come on , Dean save his live over and over what about Sam , let him down ( Purgatory ) remember!!

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  120. SuePoJanuary 29, 2014 at 9:39 PM

    After reading quite a few posts criticizing the writing of this episode, I must admit I agree that the quality of writing has -- with the exception of the last couple episodes this season -- taken a sharp downward turn in quality for the last two seasons. That being said, I can't find it in myself completely blame Adam Glass for the debacle that was Sam's speech this time. Yes, the script was sub-par compared to what we used to get before this current crop of writers took hold, but the characterization we see on screen is a collaboration between the writer and the actor. The writer's job is to give the character something to say, the actor's job is to convey those words with emotion in a way that fits with who his character is. In this instance I believe bad choices were made by both parties.

    Sam's speech was stilted, obtuse and confusing. Was the written dialogue bad? Yes. But consider if the same words had been delivered with a different tone, one of exasperation, or even frustration. Instead, the poor dialogue was delivered coldly with little emotion other than bitterness and contempt. In my opinion, that was a poor choice on Jared's part. It did nothing to convey his character's inner turmoil to the audience, it only served to make him less sympathetic in the wake of Dean's feeble attempt to offer an olive branch.

    My point is, while I firmly believe the writing has become almost comically subpar as to be unrecognizable as the cool, intelligent, captivating show this once was, I can't bring myself to completely blame the writers despite their failings. In this instance, I also blame Jared for making a poor acting choice, the director for not seeing it for what it was, the editor for not dropping it onto the cutting room floor, and Carver and Singer for either spending too much time on their 'spin-off' and not seeing how far off the rails the mothership has gone or just not caring.

    This may be an unpopular opinion, but it is a valid one. There are still things about this show that remind me why I immediately fell in love with it so many years ago, but I hold more than just the writers accountable for the mess it has become. Hopefully, someone on the inside can see past the ratings and treat the symptoms before the entire body is infected.

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  121. Tom KeiferloverJanuary 29, 2014 at 9:47 PM

    Exactly;) So don't question me.

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  122. chris684January 29, 2014 at 9:57 PM

    Maybe Sam wasn't supposed to be feeling turmoil at that point? Maybe he was just pissed. We haven't seen enough of where Sam is emotionally headed with this yet to know whether it the reaction is appropriate or not.

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  123. CPJanuary 29, 2014 at 10:33 PM

    I wasn't questioning you.


    I was just noting I didn't notice the stepmother would be bad immediately but you did. So what?
    It may have been obvious to you but it wouldn't have been to me if she wasn't a stepmother. No need to rub it in.

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  124. TAG221January 29, 2014 at 10:57 PM

    Well said.


    I want to add that despite Sam always taking the blame for starting the apocalypse, it was a group effort heading by the angels. I find Sam to be the least responsible and Cas and his cohorts to be the most.


    I bring this up only because it is being mentioned so many times on this board.

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  125. kerindaJanuary 30, 2014 at 12:21 AM

    you are kidding right? Sam did not even know Dean was in purgatory come on was told I did not see that in any Ep untell Dean told him remember that!!

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  126. Patrick MaloneyJanuary 30, 2014 at 12:49 AM

    Great, for a character I just did not like for the longest time, this episode really made me like Garth a lot

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  127. JeanneMJanuary 30, 2014 at 1:24 AM

    I absolutely agree with you. There were ample opportunities to layer that performance and the actor chose to go play only anger and sanctimony. Here was the grand opportunity for Sam's POV and this is what we got. Pity.

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  128. gogyJanuary 30, 2014 at 1:42 AM

    no I'm not kidding , did he look for him ?? if he did or just try! he was knew but he didn't try !!

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  129. FredaJanuary 30, 2014 at 2:59 AM

    I can see your point on their personalities. I agree with it to a certain extent. There has just been an overwhelming amount of episodes since season 6 and beyond in which Sam is taken prisoner, held hostage, knocked unconscious, under a spell, unable to fight or fighting badly. I feel at this point it is more of a statement that Sam is incapable of hunting by himself - that he is just getting in the way of Dean. I fell in love with this show because it was awesome to watch them together - IMO Dean has always been the better fighter, but Sam didn't require his hand to be held, he was able to fight monsters, research and make connections. There was also times when he rescued Dean. These are things he just doesn't do anymore. For instance, in A Rock and a Hard Place, Dean was taken hostage for once - Sam went to help him, but was unable to and needed Jody to rescue him as Dean got himself out of trouble.

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  130. Donna CJanuary 30, 2014 at 3:05 AM

    I get what you're saying, but that wouldn't be a plot to an episode.

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  131. Donna CJanuary 30, 2014 at 3:06 AM

    I actually like Garth. But I want him to never come back again because on this show, the law of averages eventually kills you, if you're a recurring guest star. The more you team up with the Winchesters, the more chance something is gonna get you.

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  132. percysownerJanuary 30, 2014 at 3:08 AM

    I do admit, I often wonder why the heck Dean WANTS Sam to hunt with him for this very reason. Sam seems more like a liability than an help on a hunt. Garth was more effective in the last hunt. Dean's apparent psychological dependence on Sam is not reflective of Sam being a good hunter.

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  133. Lissie_BeeJanuary 30, 2014 at 3:11 AM

    I can totally see that. I've actually never thought of it that way, but Sam does seem like he hurts more than he helps... especially the last few seasons. And I don't know if that was a byproduct of Dean becoming more intense or what, but it almost seems like it's safer for everyone if Sam isn't around - and not just because Dean worries about him if he's there, like they seem to hint at a lot, but because he isn't as "good" of a hunter.

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  134. Donna CJanuary 30, 2014 at 3:14 AM

    Thanks for the LOL.

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  135. Donna CJanuary 30, 2014 at 3:15 AM

    I always thought the show would end like that movie, too. You know it's gonna happen, but at least you don't have to see it happen.

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  136. Donna CJanuary 30, 2014 at 3:16 AM

    How many times have you heard that one this season, Isle? ;)

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  137. Donna CJanuary 30, 2014 at 3:21 AM

    I think that keeps happening because the writers can't seem to find any other way to create drama within the series. Instead of it being a plotline, which was a central point in previous seasons, it seems like it HAS to deal with the relationship between Sam and Dean.

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  138. isleofskyeJanuary 30, 2014 at 7:56 AM

    It's the only logical ending IMO. These two have done everything, been everywhere, the only two humans to have toured Heaven, Hell and Purgatory. What's left?
    It's better just to let them ride out into the sunset, and each of us can write their own finale.

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  139. isleofskyeJanuary 30, 2014 at 7:58 AM

    lol. I don't force anyone to read my comments. If they don't like, they don't have to read. :)

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  140. bridgetwidgetJanuary 30, 2014 at 8:23 AM

    Interesting thing to note about Dean....did his reflexes sky rocket after getting the mark of cain? The speed at which he threw the knife at the sheriff was unbelievable.

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  141. sharonallyJanuary 30, 2014 at 6:16 PM

    Why do you believe that how Sam was , was not how he was meant to be ?. Maybe that is how Sam felt anger ( I will leave the sanctimony out ) right then . I do not see how Sam's response should be wrong period considering what Dean did and if he showed turmoil that still would not of been right .

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  142. kerindaJanuary 30, 2014 at 7:29 PM

    Dude he did not have to try remember the last time he tried and how bad that was I do not think he wanted too go down that road again ok its a never ending fight it happen we let it go so Sam did not care too look for dean just like now Dean does not care that Sam wanted too die there both selfish in there way but I do not blame them for being that way.

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  143. lala2January 31, 2014 at 1:04 AM

    I have always thought the angels - and solely the angels - were responsible for the Apocalypse. Zachariah even admitted that they allowed Lilith to break all those seals. The angels got off scot free on the Apocalypse. The entire event was laid at Sam's feet.

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  144. gogyJanuary 31, 2014 at 1:58 AM

    look , i just hope them back like before again , i miss that relationship between each other so much , Dean try so hard but Sam not! even if both was wrong why Sam don't try to fix it like Dean !! , I hope them back again, you now !

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  145. Donna CFebruary 1, 2014 at 1:29 AM

    I never said it didn't happen then. I don't know why you keep quoting Kripke to me to defend my criticisms of the current showrunner or Gamble. Kripke far from walks on water where I'm concerned.

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  146. Donna CFebruary 1, 2014 at 1:30 AM

    Sam tries to fix things but Dean disregards his feelings on almost every issue.

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  147. Donna CFebruary 1, 2014 at 1:31 AM

    You're right. Because around then was when I started to get a bad feeling about where the writers were going with the relationship. It wasn't so bad in 3 but 4 &5, where they were always at each other ... yeah. And it's progressively become more hostile since.

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  148. CyanaTFebruary 1, 2014 at 3:59 PM

    There's been so many comments in between that I forgot what I was agreeing with :).

    Yes, but I think Carver intends to re-form the BroBond into something less destructive but with their love for each other intact. They would still have each others' backs and jump in front of bullets or rush into burning buildings to save each other but not necessarily go so far as to "sell their souls" either literally or metaphorically to 'bring each other back'" if they died) If they were stuck in another dimension but not dead that is another matter - in that case they would/could try as many means possible as long as each didn't owe any entity a long term debt and that's where S8 fell horribly short with explaining any of Sam's motivations.

    I think that's what Sam meant when he said that they're being "family" was the cause of much ... crap.... happening in their lives and to those who associated with them. Fact is, Dean came to a very similar conclusion in the S3 finale and the S4 premiere (he even thought Sam had made a deal and said in no uncertain terms that "I didn't want to be saved that way") so I have no idea where S8's 'Dean attitude' was coming from although Carver seems to have wiped both brothers' canonic responses 'pre-history' from the slate in his tenure. (Die early S8, Die!!!)

    Moving on - I saw 'promise' in Sam's 'final words' in the scene. Why? Because of the setup of ending scene: Sam seems reluctant to get out the Impala but does; Sam's says "I'll send you that postcard." Dean considers then gets out of the car himself. They both talk (I was impressed that Glass gave Sam so much to say even though it hurt). But after Sam's 'parting shot' about "these are my terms" he immediately heads back to the impala while Dean takes a moment to consider and then also heads back.

    Elements in the whole scene are nearly a mirror image of the heartbreaking ending of 501; Dean gave his speech and got into the car and Sam trailed obviously behind.

    My interpretation of the symbolism of the scene is that Sam 'chose to be brothers" if they can together change the nature of their relationship to have more equality; if Sam felt there was no hope for them to work out their different feelings about 'family' he would've turned and continued to the car he had brought to the case - symbolizing that 'they could hunt together' as PARTNERS only, not as brothers.

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  149. Ana PaulaFebruary 4, 2014 at 9:31 PM

    what about Kevin??? Sam Knew that Crowley had him.

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  150. Ana PaulaFebruary 4, 2014 at 9:31 PM

    couldn't garee more BTW Sam is feeling so guilty about Kevin's death even knowing that this is not his fault BUT when Crowley got Kevin he spent a whole year without looking for him??? Oh right because Crowley was sweet heart and wasn't doing anything bad to Kevin.

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  151. Ana PaulaFebruary 4, 2014 at 9:37 PM

    You just said all i think, you just forgot one little thing... Sam is so guilty about Kevin now, but when Dean and Cass disappeared, Crowley got Kevin and Sam didn't even tried to save him... All Sam did was beeing mad with Dean dor beeing friends with Benny who btw in the end saved his life...

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  152. lala2February 5, 2014 at 1:26 AM

    Yeah, Carver pretty much trashed Sam when it comes to Kevin too. We all know that Sam would have looked for Kevin. I will never understand how looking for missing people is immature.

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  153. Luana ArturiFebruary 5, 2014 at 8:01 AM

    Ichabod Crane looking guy??!! Seriously?! Garth?! Seriously?!

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  154. Lissie_BeeApril 8, 2014 at 1:33 AM

    I wasn't super crazy about the episode either, but I have a passing theory about the Sam comment - I have noticed that he's in a lot more "damsel" situations, and I've come to the conclusion that the writers are trying to create an obvious divide in the brothers' personalities when it comes to hunting. Dean has always been the more hardened hunter, something that was amplified after Purgatory. Sam, on the other hand, has been more open-minded in these situations, and (most of the time) wants to gather all the facts before just shooting. He's a bit more open to the whole "good monster" concept, and I think that could be part of the reason that the writers put him in these situations where he doesn't attack like he should.


    Obviously this isn't the case in every episode... but like I said, it was just a thought... or I could be reading wayyyyyyy too much into it haha

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  155. Ana PaulaApril 8, 2014 at 1:35 AM

    I have no words for the end of the episode, Really Sam? You can't trust Dean?? I wish Dean had said ok, turned around and left Sam ALONE!! Carver really missed an amazing opportunity here. I will watch again tomorow, I truly understand Sam being mad, he has all the reasons, but what he said SO UNFAIR!!

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  156. gogyApril 8, 2014 at 1:35 AM

    I hate Sam in this episode :(

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  157. lala2April 8, 2014 at 1:35 AM

    Haha!!!

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  158. Donna CApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    Six seasons ago, I would've been elated I cold called a plotline before there were even promo photos out. Now ... it terrifies me I'm that in tune with some current writer's mind.

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  159. lala2April 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    Rufus.

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  160. lala2April 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    Not sure about your last wish, but you got everything else you wanted :-)

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  161. Justin ValdesApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    She was a terrible "villain". I was laughing at her and couldn't take her seriously.

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  162. CPApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    I think Dean needs serious convincing to let a monster go. That means no hurting people or Dean owes them/needs them for something. Back in the beginning (Season 1 and 2) he didn't even think about considering if monsters could be good until Sam realized Lenore was and convinced Dean because Dean had never seen evidence before that monsters could be good. Dean has slowly made progress (he won't kill a monster if someone can prove they're being good), but always needs lots of convincing. Any other way of writing Dean would be OFC. Letting Lucky go was a bit out of character, but then the writers obviously didn't want him killing someone who had saved some innocent people.

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  163. lala2April 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    You said it!

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  164. kerindaApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    I hear you there I was like WHAT? but he got to say something that's a start right? he is feeling still hurt and when your words do not come out right I think.

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  165. lala2April 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    I just voted "Awful" too. After some reflection, I've decided I hate this episode. It was pretty bad.

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  166. percysownerApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    But then they would have to examine something Dean did that was pretty undeniably wrong, and why do that when you can muddy the water by making Sam look bad.

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  167. kerindaApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    Wow this was hard to watch at the end. I know that you guy's will be mad at Sam for saying what he said but he is pissed still and has to work with the pain to forgive Dean its not going to be a one Ep and there back together being ok crap I am sick of it. he just needs more time that's what a real person would do if hurt I think sooner or later he will forgive but it take some time and don't hate on him for saying what he said he is finelly say something about it.

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  168. percysownerApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    He was rude, but in some ways that's Dean. He hates all monsters unless they are helping him like Benny and Crowley (for now), and for some unknown reason Lucky because he was a cute lonely serial killer dog. Yeah he didn't go after Kate, but at that point he was trying to convince himself that he was right about Benny, so believing in Kate had an upside. But in general Dean doesn't care how good a monster is, he hates them and wants them dead (see Amy and Lenore before Dean decided Gordon was bats**t.

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  169. CPApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    Totally agree. Sam and Dean are in a rinse-wash-repeat cycle. Always fighting about the same thing, always never truly dealing with their issues with each other, never learning from mistakes, and never finding a way to deal with everything in a better way than previous.

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  170. percysownerApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    Sam doesn't have to die die. Just like Sam believed Dean was dead when he went to Purgatory, Dean can believe Sam is dead and Sam can be in some other dimension. Dean can let him go, then Sam can come back and they can find balance.

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  171. CPApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    I love Dean, but even back when I was in love with this show to pieces (Season 5 being the high before the drop) he wasn't always right and I recognized that. He did things he shouldn't have done too. He wasn't always the bigger man when he needed to be. For one, if he'd gone about approaching Sam with his issues in Season 4 better, Sam may have heard him out instead of running off with Ruby to kill Lilith.

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  172. lala2April 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    Sam didn't finish his thought.

    I think he was trying to say that if we're brothers, we can't, or shouldn't, hunt together b/c we will always want to put the other's welfare above the mission, and they shouldn't do that.

    It is really all leading up to Sam dying in the finale and Dean accepting it. With each episode, I believe this more and more.

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  173. CPApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    Yeah, Sam not finishing the trial was ultimately his choice. What the writers should have focused on was on how Dean helped Gadreel to get Sam to say yes.

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  174. CPApril 8, 2014 at 1:36 AM

    I don't think the writers we currently have even pay attention to seasons 1-5 anymore. I doubt they're intentionally making connections to The End.

    I used to have fun making connections to that episode but I've given up.

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