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The Walking Dead – Episode 4.08 – Too Far Gone – Review and Discussion

Dec 3, 2013

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This was the finale I was expecting last spring – even if this one was only a mid-season finale. Action-packed from start to finish, emotionally crushing, both sides 100% committed, and in The Walking Dead style – tragically ironic. In the end, the Governor’s rally to “survive” gets Meghan, himself, and most of his camp, killed. On Rick’s side, Hershel, the champion for peace – for letting people in – is beheaded by a man who just can’t come back from what he’s done.

The wait for the final showdown between Rick and the Governor was worth it. The changes the characters have undergone in the months between their battle over the prison last March and now added tenfold to the climax. At the time, they were fueled by revenge and were ready to die in a final stand to protect their home. But since then, they had found peace – not just Rick and his group, but the Governor too – and now they had reason to live.

One of the things I love about writing about this show is that I often find that elements I had focused on in previous episodes have become relevant again. As I was watching this, I was reminded of Arrow on the Doorpost, the episode last season in which Rick met with The Governor in a neutral location at an attempt at peace talks. Outside, Hershel chatted with Milton, and Daryl with Martinez, while Andrea tried in vain to bring the two leaders to some sort of mutual understanding. I made the comparison to a dance. Both Rick and the Governor were side stepping around each other and putting on a show of talking about a truce, but it never could work, and both sides knew it, because neither side trusted the other.

I was reminded of this episode as the Governor, after listening to Rick’s plea, and seeming to consider it, uttered “liar” as he swung to kill Hershel and sabotage any chance for a peaceful ending. For the first time, I was struck by the fact that Rick really had changed. While the Governor had tried to change, we’ve seen that changing when you're that far gone is very hard to do. In the end, the Governor was one of those people Martinez had said could never really come back. Rick, however, had learned something. He had been resisting the leadership mantle all season for fear that he would make the same mistakes again and lead their group to death. But forced back into a leadership role when the Governor wouldn’t negotiate with anyone else, Rick again faced the same choices, but looked at Hershel, and this time he chose peace.

Rick and Hershel

In losing Hershel, the prison group lost their elder, their counselor, and their inspiration for faith and hope. Hershel wasn’t always so stable. We know he had an alcohol problem in his youth. When Rick and his group started camping on Hershel’s farm in season 2, Hershel didn’t want them there. Maggie tried to convince Hershel to be a better person, but it was Rick who seemed to get through to him and convince him to give their group a chance. Rick was also the one to bring Hershel back from the bar when Hershel had lost faith.

Later, in season 3, when Rick started shutting too many people out, Hershel returned the favor and tried to convince Rick to start trusting people again. In the confrontation with the Governor, when Rick was proposing a peaceful solution, Hershel smiled. His influence on his friend had appeared to finally pay off, and Rick was choosing a path that was healthier for them all, because while on the surface, the Governor’s argument seems to make some sense – surviving in this world means killing first – those who choose that path, in the end become walkers – if not physically then spiritually. Unfortunately, the Governor wasn’t in the same state of mind.

The Enemy Within

While it would be easy to see this battle as the good team verses the bad team, there was a theme throughout that this darkness exists in everyone. People don’t need to look outward to see the enemy. Last week, Meghan asked the Governor if she was bad. This week Lilly echoed the same question after the Governor insisted that the prison group should be removed because they were bad people. When left behind, Lilly was looking for danger outward, across the river, but the danger was in the midst of their camp all along, under the earth that Meghan was playing in. This also underscores that there’s no such thing as a safe haven, and that the idea that the prison with its walls was the answer, was wrong.

This enemy is not only in the form of walkers, but in the darkness in people. The theme of the Jekyll and Hyde duality in people was again referenced as Lilly tells the Governor, “I don’t know who you are.” It also appeared as Daryl responds to the news that Carol had killed Karen and David and didn't appear sorry, as “That wasn’t her.” That internal struggle between Brian and the Governor appears to play out one last time as Brian considers Rick’s proposal that they all live together under one roof, but the Governor sabotages the potential for a truce by raising his sword to Hershel.

Lizzie and Carol

When the children, with Judith, were on their way to the buses to evacuate, we saw Carol’s influence on Lizzie present itself. Lizzie stops and says that Carol taught them to be strong, so they should fight. What happened next with Judith isn’t shown, but it seems that because the children got sidetracked and didn’t get on the bus, Judith went missing – and was possible eaten by a walker. Lizzie and/or Mika saves Tyreese by killing Alisha and one of the Governor’s other soldiers.

Good or bad? My initial reaction was that Carol’s message about protecting themselves paid off in the end – Lizzie became useful and killed the enemy. But we’ve met Alisha. She had her own personal story and had someone who cared about her. She was a soldier in a battle, but she wasn’t a bad person. Children, coldly killing soldiers in a battle, seems in opposition to the vision Hershel was trying to achieve.  What are your thoughts on this?

In Summary

This was an amazing episode that had so much emotional punch that I needed to stop and reflect before I could write this. What are your thoughts on Hershel’s end? How about the Governor’s?  I love Michonne’s sword and that she finally got payback.

Other Thoughts:

- It was a scary moment when it looked like a walker might get Daryl, but then I thought there’s no way he’s getting taken down by a stray zombie. That would be such an unfitting end. I loved the way Daryl turned it around by using the walker as a shield so that he could throw a grenade.

- My one nitpick for this episode is that I thought the Governor’s group, with the exception of Lilly and Tara, went along with plan to attack the prison too easily. I would be more likely to believe their actions if the group appeared frightened, but by post-apocalyptic standards, they’ve been leading a pretty idyllic life. When Rick first became leader of his group, every time he sneezed, the group questioned him.

- Are you glad to see the Governor killed off now, or would you rather he have held on longer? Although I thought these last few episodes have been fantastic and were crucial in bringing the story to where it is now, I’m glad he’s not lingering as a bad guy.  The story needs to move forward.

- The Governor when speaking with Lilly says, “This way you get to live, and I get to be ….” and then trails off. Thoughts on what he was going to say?

- Hershel:  “If you can understand what it’s like to have a daughter, then how can you threaten to kill someone else’s?” The Governor:  “Because they aren’t mine.”

- It was an ironic twist that Maggie and Glenn were fantasizing about taking a vacation, loading the station wagon, to visit the tallest waterfall in Georgia, because in the end, they’re all packing up the bus for a different type of trip. Any chance their next stop is at the tallest waterfall in Georgia?

- What was going on with the rats? I couldn’t tell what the thing was that Tyreese showed to Rick and Daryl. To me is looked like either a rat trap or dissected rat. Any help here?

- I hope Michonne put her sword through Hershel’s head before she saved Rick. I’m really disturbed at the thought of Hershel’s head lying around there undead, snapping at squirrels that pass nearby.

- What do you think happened to Judith? I’m hoping she’s not dead. The only scenario I can see where she isn’t is if the children were running in the wrong direction because they had to go back for Judith, and Judith is with Tyreese and the children now. Maybe the child seat was bloody because Tyreese was so bloody. Who else thinks that group meets up with Carol, and Carol ends up raising Rick's child after Rick said he didn't want Carol near his children?

- This is my pick for the standout quote from this episode. Rick: “We’ve all done worse types of things just to stay alive, but we can still come back. We’re not too far gone. We get to come back. And I know, we all can change.” [Hershel smiles]

- It was a nice touch to see Clara from the season premiere as one of the walkers in the end. It also fit well with the theme of coming back – and that those who can’t end up walkers.

- Rick and Carl sobbing at the end – wow. Is this the first time we’ve seen Carl cry?

41 comments:

  1. Thank you for another great review. Starting from the end, is this the first time we've seen Carl cry? Possibly, but it's the first time I've noticed the kid's voice is changing. I don't remember how old he's supposed to be, but Chandler is 14.

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  2. Thanks for commenting. I've been struck lately too at how old Carl/Chandler is starting to look. He's getting that awkward, teenage look. When did that happen?

    I don't think the rat person is Lizzie either. If it was, it's a simple explanation and we would have heard it episodes ago. That it's still a mystery says to me that it's a more insidious action that will evolve into something bigger in the second half.



    I agree that Rick seems more stable now. I hope he doesn't forget the lessons he learned from Hershel, but I don't think he will.

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  3. The actor is clearly ageing and it shows. However as they have missed a few winters in Walking Dead then it makes sense. I can't remember how old he is in Season 1 but the time span for that season is only about a week while Season 2 feels more like a few weeks maybe a month in total. The gap between season 2-3 is 6-8 months and then all of season 3 arc and then another gap. I would say that the 'shows' time we are looking on 2-3 years. I think it will be good to see him 'grow up' in this world.. especially as they planning for the show to go on for a while (with good ratings it will)

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  4. Judith is dead. She gets shot at the prison in the comic books but I don't think AMC wanted to show a baby being killed. Might not be the best for ratings.

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  5. Alisha attacked the prison like a blind soldier although she knew that ill kids are into the prison. She got what she deserved.

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  6. I was surprised that they all went along with the Governor's plan so easily. He was a total stranger and wanted to risk their lives. I only remember really seeing one girl who once they got there realized they were probably making a mistake and didn't really seem to want any part of the attack.

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  7. I'd love to see Carl grow up as this show progresses and see a gradual shift from Rick being the leader to Carl. I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see a little of this in the episodes ahead. Carl really seems to be stepping up, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Rick start to lean on him more in episodes to come.

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  8. It was certainly meant to look that way, but I'm not going to fully believe it until we see all characters accounted for, and know that Judith isn't with any of them. As Timbolio said, they've changed things up from the comics in other areas, so I'm hoping Judith makes it. The characters need some hope or else this show will get so dark no one will want to watch it.

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  9. I think this was a weak link in the writing. The characters from the other side just weren't given much depth, with the exceptions of Lilly and Tara. I think Tara was the one you saw as questioning things? It may have been necessary to move the plot along, but the fact that more people weren't questioning it lacked some believability.

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  10. But when Rick made arguments for certain actions that were far less violent than taking someone's home, everyone questioned him. Remember how much opposition he faced for wanting to go to the CDC? Also, the Governor had told them that the other people were murderers and thieves. What made these people believe the group in the prison (hardened, dangerous criminals) would cower away and give up something so valuable without a fight just because the Governor had captured two of their people - or be so certain that they could beat them?

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  11. Great point Chris. I like how they go with the comics but I like how they don't. If they followed the comics completely it'd be too predictable.

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  12. Hmm good point. Maybe the hope of having a better safer place persuaded them. They just witnessed Meghan nearly lose her life due to a walker right in the middle of their camp. At that point they probably would've done anything to have a better place to live.

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  13. I would've loved to have seen him as a walker. In my mind that's what he deserved. In The Governor's mind walkers were only there to do his dirty work. He used them to attack the prison, he used them as entertainment in the fights, he used Milton as a walker to kill Andrea, he used the heads in tanks and Pete in the pond to drive himself forward, and he used Penny to preserve his own happiness. It would've been fitting in the end for he himself to be a walker.

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  14. Oh btw I think Carl cried a couple other times. If I remember correctly he cried when Sophia was found in the barn and then later he cried when Rick revealed that he killed Shane. Both times Lori was there to comfort him.

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  15. I think they're going down a path leading to Lizzie and Mika being Ben and Billy from the comics. In the comics the two were brothers adopted by Andrea and Dale (Lizzie and Mika's adopted by Carol and now being looked after by Tyreese). Ben showed signs of being disturbed. He mutilated animals and was fascinated by the walkers ie Lizzie (if she's the one feeding the walkers and dissecting rats). Ben ended up murdering his brother just to see him return as a walker. Makes me wonder if that is where they're going with her storyline.

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  16. The people in the prison know Rick for months or years. Alisha knew the Governor just for a few days. The people in Woodbury believed that Rick's group attacked Woodbury just to destroy it and thought he would be a threat. This new camp was never attacked by Rick. There were enough reasons to question why two leaders died since "Brian" arrived. Only Tara did not deserve to pay the price. She told Alisha how the Governor finished Hershel. But instead of leaving this place together with Tara she decided to be just a dumb soldier.

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  17. That sounds reasonable. Seems to be a serious possibility that season 4 ends with Carl killing Lizzie (and Rick crying).

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  18. OK, thanks! We didn't see him cry after Lori died, though, did we? I think I started noticing then because he really should have had a good cry.

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  19. That's a good point. The attack on Meghan was pretty recent and would have scared them. I still think they should be been questioning the logic of following this man they barely knew into a battle with a group he admits to having a past with.

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  20. No we didn't SEE him cry but his face looked as though he had when Rick found out. I think it shows how great these actors and actresses really are that they show the perfect amount of emotion. Most of them have broke down at one point or another. Michonne cried over Andrea and when she was holding Judith. Even Daryl cried when he found his brother as a walker. The only one I can't recall crying is Glenn.

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  21. naw she was grabbed by someone who was bloody like tyreese or bob as later on we will meet negan and he actually kidnaps the baby and carl goes with a group to search for her...I think they want us to think the baby died and yes would not be nice of amc to show zombies snacking on babies

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  22. if the show went exactly like the comics then everyone would know what will happen...they need twists but however the governor showed up with a tank in comics just like the show...many arcs from comics are showing up

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  23. Great review, you explained a lot that i could get example the meaning of the tittle and the strugles of both Rick and the Governor to stand their positions, like you said Rick has grown and realized that violence is not the best option in a world where all the humans are left are suppose to help other to be safe completely opposite to the Governor that tried to be good but at the end his emotions or his anger get the best of him and when that happens noone is safe.

    Hershel death was emotional when i saw that Smile i ws like"damn this men si dying and is smiling" and i knew it was because he knew he taught Rick good and was happy to see that Rick was not the same man he knew months ago.

    On Judith, i want to believe that one of the children took her and now are with Tyresse and the others who could scape not in the bus btw altho i dont know who was left behind... let me see Daryl, Maggie, Tyresse` friend (dont remember her name), the drunk guy, the four Kids plus Judith (i hope), Michionne, Carl and Rick, am i rigth¿? so they have to go look for the group in the bus now!

    And the thing that Tyresse found, remember in the beggining there was a bunch of death rats by the fences¿? i always tought someone from the Governor side inside the prison was feeding them to tear down the fences but it just go off by the episodes until now....



    I liked how Daryk took the news about Carol he knew he had to stay together and go with Rick to talk to Tyresse and im wondering now if they are gonna find her in the road while they are lookng for a new place to stay safe....
    Im writting way too much and my english is not that good i`ll say this! tHIS WAS ONE THE BEST EPISODE OF THE SEASON!

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  24. Things from the comics have showed up since day one. Shane and Lori's relationship, Rick's accident, Amy getting killed, etc. The show is based off the comics so they're bound to follow the comics to some extent but with the television series they get a chance to change some things up and make decisions they didn't make with the comics. Andrea's still alive in the comics but she's dead on the show as is Sophia. Things from the comics have showed up since day one so that's nothing new. Just because The Gov showed up in a tank doesn't mean Judith is dead. I predicted Beth's death seeing her replacing Lori in the comics getting shot running with Judith in her arms but it didn't happen.

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  25. This was a very emotional episode. I'm glad you enjoyed it.


    The group seemed to split into groups after the bus left, but we don't really know who if anyone was left behind. We don't even know who was on the bus before it left. Maggie had left Glenn there, but he might have gotten off to look for her. It will be interesting to see how the group comes back together again, and if they all do. A long wait until February!

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  26. this was one of if not the best episode yet(hard to say that though as i have alot of favorites lol) dvr'd it and watched it like 7 times already and each time i find myself yelling "NO" along with Rick(and a few obscenities as well) when the governor hacks Herschel I truly hate the character of the governor but i guess that just means David Morrisey is a great actor

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  27. David Morrissey has done an incredible job in making such a despicable character sympathetic and realistic. This is an episode that I don't think I'll tire in rewatching either. The emotional intensity just floored me. Thanks for commenting!

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  28. Hi brothers and sisters I wanted to ask off the cuff any of you saw a commercial for another zombie show or zombie movie in commercial a few weeks ago in the walking dead!!! I thought I could find it online but I can't!!!!!!! Even though me and my buddies have been into zombies since 1978 I can't find the commercial anywhere!!!!!!!! Please let me know if you saw this commercial in a replay of the show!!!!!!

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  29. I didnt catch it during the show but i saw it online. Its for a new show on FX called.The Strain. It's sort of like the walking dead but with vampires. Here's the link to the commercial http://youtu.be/QkFONPYFEWM

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  30. You're right I had forgotten about that.

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  31. When I saw the way Lizzie handled herself with that gun, a thought popped into my head: What if she was the one who had shot Karen and David, and Carol then burned the bodies and confessed to the crime as an effort to cover up for her surrogate daughter? Guess we'll find out more in the back half of the season, but now I can't help but wonder.

    Someone on Talking Dead mentioned that the creature nailed to the board was apparently a rabbit. Regardless of what it was, how disturbing to find it (combined with what we viewers already know about the rats).

    I'm glad they've moved on from the Governor's storyline. I admire what they tried to do by giving him some sympathetic layers, but wish the writers would have given themselves a longer running start with this particular story branch. To me, all these developments -- presented in the last couple of episodes as they were -- felt too rushed. I didn't get a chance to feel invested in the new characters, and like you Chris, doubted that the camp group would have trusted a brand new leader so easily. But David Morrissey really did turn in a fantastic performance all around. Now I'm personally ready now to see a new set of challenges.

    Regarding Baby Judith, Greg Nicotero has teased the fact that they'll be "presenting a zombie baby" at some point this season (??). Hoping that's not the way Lil' Ass-Kicker ends up (I really love your thought about Carol raising her) -- but if the writers do go this route, what a grisly twist on the comic character's fate! TWD sure loves to push the envelope, so it's got me wondering. Either way, though, I definitely don't think she's "dead-dead."

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  32. Hi Mary, did you like the episode? Some interesting thoughts here. That would be a twist if it turned out that Carol didn't really kill Karen and David. It still feels like there's something up with Lizzie with how much focus she's getting, but I don't think it's the rats anymore. Thanks for the info on the rabbit. I watched part of The Talking Dead but I guess I didn't watch far enough in.


    I'm glad the Governor's story is over too. The last few episodes were great, but it would just get repetitive from here. Agree with you about David Morrissey's performance.


    I can't imagine they would turn Judith into a walker. That would be too dark. I just can't see it - or refuse to believe it!

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  33. Excellent and very thought-provoking review as always, Chris! And yeah, I did think it was a good episode -- I just think it would have been even more powerful if that Governor Jekyll/Hyde storyline had just a little more time to marinate. I really like the way they "re-staged" the prison conflict with Rick having adopted Hershel's outlook -- and of course, losing Hershel was just SO crushing. But characters like Alisha and Meghan -- they seemed very good-hearted too, and I would have "felt" their deaths more strongly if I'd gotten more time to know them (if that makes sense).

    I'm a little troubled, too, by the question of Judith. What worries me is if the writers are feeling pressured to keep making the show darker and darker as a way to keep things shocking and interesting. I seems to me like the death of children is becoming more commonplace, and some of the strongest symbols of hope and light (Dale, Hershel) have met their demise. But I'm with you -- not sure I could take that happening to Judith!

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  34. I see what you're saying about the Governor's story lasting a little longer.


    I hope they don't try to make the show darker. With the death of Hershel, I'm hoping that his influence will continue after his death, and we'll see one of the other characters - possibly Glenn, Rick, or Carl - step up to become the voice of what Hershel stood for. I think they have to go that route of keeping some balance, because it seems the show has been moving more and more in the direction of showing that the Shane/Governor "survival" path just leads to violence and death.

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  35. Just because it happened in the comics means nothing. In the comics it was Dale who lost his leg not Hershel, it was Tyreese who The Governor beheaded not Hershel. Kirkman said he likes to use the TV series to go in different paths. Rick still has his hand so Judith could still be alive.

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  36. I think they went along with it so easily because he promised no deaths.

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  37. I don't see him going psycho but I do worry that he'll blame himself for Hershel's death.

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  38. I'd argue that this comes down to perspective, and that there are characters on both sides of these conflicts that fight behind a leader only because it's the team they picked, and they think they need to support their team to survive. I'm not saying shooting Alisha and the other man was the wrong action, because at that point it was kill or be killed, but I worry when I see kids on this show growing up too quickly. There's too much potential to harden into something not quite human.

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  39. Good point about the unbuckled car seat! That may be a clue.


    I've already responded to some of the comments about the group going along with the Governor's plan on a different post, but I agree with you in questioning why they continued on attacking the prison after seeing what the Governor did to Hershel and knowing that they were destroying the walls so it would be no good to them anyway. They may have felt committed at that point, but Alisha's argument to Tara seemed weak. They could have slipped away in the chaos.


    When Michonne walked away after stabbing the Governor, and he was still alive, I was surprised that she was leaving the job unfinished. But I thought maybe she realized it was a fatal blow and wanted him to die slowly and turn. Or maybe she really had been able to let go of her need for revenge. The truth is probably nothing more than the writers wanted Lilly to get in the kill shot to tie it in with the comics, but it's nice to think there was a rationale behind Michonne not finishing off the job.

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  40. Exactly. The character of Judith will give the group hope for the future of the new world.

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  41. I think the reason the group went along with The Governor's plan so easily was because he made it sound as like everyone would make it out without dying. He made it sound like Rick's group would just tuck their tails and run and they'd get the prison and safety without firing a shot. What struck me as weird was how after Rick basically welcomed them all in with open arms they still fought even after witnessing The Governor decapitate an unarmed tied up old man. That act alone should've showed them who the evil one really was. Even Mitch seemed to consider Rick's offer and he acted surprised by it up until the order to attack was given. I believe Hershel looked at Rick like a son. Seeing his "son" ready to welcome in his own enemy put a smile on his face. I don't think Judith is dead unless TWD crew missed something. Judith's carseat was unbuckled when Rick and Carl found it. When the kids carried her out of the prison she was buckled in. I don't see a walker being smart enough to unbuckle the carseat. I believe someone covered in blood whisked her up and took her. In the comics Tyreese and Carol had a relationship. The group's broken now and Tyreese is out there with Lizzie and Mika. He still doesn't know it was Carol who killed Karen. It'd be a big twist if he met up with Carol and struck up a relationship with her only to find out later she was Karen's killer. In the end I'm happy to see The Governor gone. I like the way he died with Michonne delivering a killing blow only to have Lilly actually end his life. I do wish he would've been left to turn though. I can't wait until February to see what happens next.

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