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Supernatural – Episode 9.06 – The Gripe Review

Nov 16, 2013

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Hello SPN fans and welcome to the first Gripe Review. This is not a weekly episode review as those are beautifully covered by Lisa and Christine. This instead is a distillation of the major nitpicks and complaints fans brought up about the episode in the days immediately following its airing. I collect these from Supernatural forums and chats, as well as Social Media sites such as Twitter and Tumblr, and add some of my own takes to them. Consider this a review you would get if Simon Cowell was in charge.

Why write a nitpick review? Because this show has one of the most passionate, active fandoms online that criticizes the show not to knock it down, but to challenge it to rise to its potential. True there are diverse opinions among fans, but some trouble points gain such notoriety, you find many fans talk about them days after the episode. Such are lacks of continuity, OOCness of characters, and gross canon violation, all things that bother viewers. Instead of letting them slide and pile up to unbearable levels that may cause us to stop watching, we point them out and discuss them so that our grief becomes a source of communication instead of frustration. 

Anyone reading is encouraged to voice their opinion in the comments. You are also encouraged to add your own. But please be respectful to others and keep the language civil.

With that in mind here is the list of gripes (and praise) for “Heaven Can’t Wait.”


Gripe #1 – bite me Zeke: I didn't get to post the fandom's gripes about Zeke for the previous episodes. How he has caused Dean to constantly lie to his brother, throw his best friend out on the street, and how he plays the deus ex machina every episode. However in this episode he is the reason Sam and Dean are on two different missions, and while that in itself isn’t bad, when the reason is because Dean can’t trust the parasite living inside his brother to be around his best friend, and therefore has to keep Sam away from not just the case, but someone who is essentially a third Winchester, it becomes annoying. This is not a continuity issue or canon violation. But it is a storyline that prevents the episode from becoming much more engaging. Personally I believe Sam and Castiel are friends and like many, I like to see them interact more, so of course it saddens me when they don’t get to do that because of Zeke.


Gripe #2 – Dean is a dick to Castiel: At the end of I’m No Angel Ezekiel forced Dean to eject Castiel from the bunker. I didn't write a gripe review back then but if I did, that poorly written scene would have definitely been on it. None of us knows how it went down but from this episode's looks, it seems like Dean didn't give him anything to survive on. Castiel having to find a job, hiding his toothbrush in a cabinet at work, and lying about working late so that he would have a place to sleep, shows in what a bad shape he is both socially and financially. And it’s all because of Dean's decision to ignore his needs.

While Dean’s excuse for throwing Castiel out might be valid (again a lot of debate here,) nothing justifies the condescending way he talks to him when he sees what he’s become. “So you went from fighting Heavenly battles to nuking taquitos.” Yes Dean. That happens when you lose your grace, fall to earth, turn into a different species, have to run from your own kind, and the only friend you could rely on for support throws you out of the only home you know. As one fan pointed out Dean should know how hard it is to live on the streets with only the clothes on your back, especially when you have an army of angels coming after you. The fact that Castiel managed to find a job and a place to live is admirable and should be praised, not ridiculed.


Gripe #3 – Castiel, the ladies’ man: We know this fandom has a reputation for disliking the random women the boys get involved with. To defend this position I will point out the problematic ways those women are written, mostly not as real characters but a receptacle for the boys’ romantic interests. We saw that with Lisa and Amelia. Now we have Nora.

I don’t dislike Nora, I don’t like her either. I don’t know her enough to have either those feelings. What I, and some other fans, have a problem with is the way her story confuses Castiel’s priorities and undermines his story. In this episode we are told by Ephraim that Castiel is depressed and in pain. That is consistent with canon because we know he lost his grace, is struggling to live among humans, and knows there’s a price on his head. Yet, throughout the episode, it seemed he was more preoccupied with romancing Nora than finding a solution to his dilemmas. It felt forced and sitcom-ish because, aside from hormonal teenagers, people who are in dire situations barely think about dating someone they barely know. Saying Castiel is in so much pain he attracted the Dr. Kevorkian of the angel garrisons yet showing him at such peace that he would pick flowers from the side of the road and ask Dean for dating advice is confusing.


Gripe #4 – surprise me but not with the absence of logic: No parent would ask someone to babysit their child without first making sure the person knows exactly what they are doing and has both the ability and the willingness to do it. The twist the writer was going for by making Castiel, and us, believe he was going on a date, then hitting him with a babysitting anvil, came at the a cost to Nora’s character. She appeared both an irresponsible parent and an opportunistic employer.

Gripe #5 – uncertainty about Castiel’s motives: At the start of the episode Castiel’s behavior gave me the impression that he didn't want to deal with the fallen angels and instead wanted to spend his time learning the ropes of being human. At the end however he said his goal was to help the angels. Just like the romance thing, this is a point of inconsistency for Castiel’s character and motives. At this point I really don’t know what Castiel’s goal is. Does he want to live a quiet life as a human, or does he want to become something more and help his brethren find their way back home? Either option is fine, and provides possibilities for good storytelling. I am just not sure which direction the writers want to take him.


Gripe #6 – Kevin can’t read the tablet: I personally had no issue with this but many fans pointed out the inconsistency between canon’s definition of a prophet and Kevin’s inability to read the angel tablet. Last season it was established that a prophet could read Metatron’s word like it was his/her native language. This was demonstrated in the test Crowley presented to the prophets-to-be he had kidnapped in A Little Slice of Kevin. They couldn't read the tablet so he deemed them rejects. Only Kevin was the genuine item, yet now he only manages to translate two words, which looks like a canon violation and a convenient way to drag the tablet story further.

Praise – To end the review on a positive note I will say I liked the episode because it had the rare quality of featuring all the major characters of this season. Sam, Dean, Castiel, Crowley, Kevin and Abaddon each make an appearance in this episode and, in one way or another, play a role in the story. Even though I preferred the two parallel stories to be more connected, it did provide each character with a moment to shine. 

What do you think about these gripes? Did you have other complaints, or compliments, to add to these? Sound off in the comments and let us know.

Tessa

tessa-marlene.tumblr.com/
twitter.com/tessa_marlene 

107 comments:

  1. A trope is a sort of element in writing that comes up excessively often, especially in a particular genre. It's hard to define it any more specifically than that because of just how many tropes there are and all of the subject matter they cover.

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  2. About Gripe #2, I would add that the writers of the show are dicks, too. The real Dean would never insult someone for working in a store. Bobby was a mechanic, Jo worked in bars, and Dean himself worked in construction when he was with Lisa. How are those jobs any better than working in a store?
    The writers having Dean insult his best friend about his job ruined the ep for me. If I was Jensen, I would have refused to say those lines. It was so out of character.
    I can believe that Dean would have Cas leave the bunker, but there is no way that he would just kick him out with nothing. And the normal Dean/Cas relationship was just different this time. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just didn't jive with me.

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  3. It happens a lot in the later seasons that writers ignore established character traits in favor of slipping a joke or a witty remark into the dialogue.. Another example was season 7 when Sam confused Metatron with Megatron when it is established that he is the more scholarly Winchester.

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  4. Synonymsbanality, bromide, chestnut, cliché (also cliche), groaner, homily, platitude, shibboleth,
    Related Words
    party line, routine; inanity; generality, generalization, simplification; old wives' tale, stereotype

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  5. Nice review, Tessa. However, I completely disagree with Gripe #2. I didn't think Dean was being condescending or a dick. He seemed surprised to find Castiel at a Gas 'n Sip and was also surprised that Castiel was talking the job up so much. I saw it as teasing and disbelief, not patronizing superiority, because Dean is still adjusting to Castiel being human, too. It might've been thoughtless, but that is as far as I'd go. Also, the fact that Castiel had a few different shirts, was able to make it to Idaho, and got a job (which typically requires some sort of ID) indicates that Dean probably did give him something when Castiel left the bunker. And saying that the reason for kicking Castiel out "might" be valid seems highly Castiel or D/C biased because, as far as Dean knows, if Ezekiel leaves, Sam will die. Castiel at least had a chance to survive. The writers did do Dean a great disservice by failing to show the whole scene, though.


    For Gripe #5, I thought that was the whole point of the episode. Castiel started out with his head buried in the sand. He wanted to do the best job possible at Gas 'n Sip and was trying to adapt because he didn't think he could do anything to help the angels. However, when Dean convinced him to help with the hunt, particularly because an angel was involved, and the hunt was successful, Castiel realized that he could be helpful. As a result of the events in the episode, his focus shifted.


    Gripes #4 and 6 were big ones for me this episode. I couldn't believe any mother would be so irresponsible in #4, and #6 seriously bothered me because not only did it break canon, it made no sense.

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  6. I agree with gripe #2. It is one of my biggest issue with Dean and Cas. I know Dean is supposed to care about Cas and is meant to care about him but in instances like that sometimes it's hard to buy that. I love Dean but Dean's jokes towards Cas don't feel like jokes they come across condescending and mean spirited. Then there are times like the writer mentions when Dean doesn't bother to help him out while he's on his own. But then we will see a scene where he calls Cas family or he needs him it just doesn't make sense. They need to be more consistent and do a better job of SHOWING that not just telling.

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  7. What bothers me about #2 is like someone else said. Dean would never look down at someone for having a job. Specially knowing he's the reason why that someone had to get a job in the first place. It's so unlike Dean that it's impossible from me to grasp it. Are we sure there isn't an angel possessing Dean too?


    I agree with everything else you added.

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  8. I agree with you about everything, especially about Gripe #2. Is this going to become a habit? Dean misunderstood and called a dick after each episode?

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  9. Dean can be a dick quite often but this time I disagree I dont think is/was a dick to Cas at all this season

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  10. It sounded more like a Dean line than a Sam line to me

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  11. -I agree with peoples gripe about Zeke being deus ex machina every episode so this week made a sensible change, it was getting old fast having him pop up every episode to save the day and well we still dont know if he's on the level or has ulterior motives nearly a third into the season? Talk about slow going.



    -Dean is being made to lie to Cas he's choosing to, with Sam theres as risk but Cas knowing wouldn't really make much of a difference unless Cas decides to open his mouth and tell Sam


    -Dean cant rust the parasite in his brothers body to remain in his brothers body and heal him like he promised so he has to take Zekes word for it and keep Cas away from Sam/Zeke, its clear Zeke is not threat to Cas but Cas is a threat to Zeke and therefore Sam. So Dean is protecting Sam.


    -Cas is not essentially the third Winchester and no he and Sam are not close, Sam would die for Cas yes but thats because Sam is that kind of guy he knows Dean feelings for the angel.


    -I fully believe that they would have split Sam and Dean up at various times this season any how even without Zeke, they seem to do it every season just to pander to certain groups of the fandom. Also Sam wasnt needed on the case anyhow what he was involved in was far more important.


    -I'm not bothered by the lack of Sam and Castiel interaction, I'd prefer Sam to have his own friends and people to interact with and not just all of Dean's friends.


    -I dont think Dean was mean to Cas at all I thought it just reflected how awkward their relationship is at the moment and I dont think Dean should have to hold Cas's hand through everything


    -Dont really car if Cas is a ladies man or not I dont care about the characters outside of his connection the Winchester story to care about what he gets up to when they arent around. I skipped through all those scenes and I think they need to get Cas his grace back asap because the human storyline is really tedious. By the way I thought the whole Nora and Baby thing was supposed to be funny I guess it bombed for most fans because seriously who leaves their child with a stranger? Maybe Nora and Lisa Braeden should start a support group for irresponsible parents?


    -I think Cas is in denial at the moment but I think its because he feels like he cant do anything without his grace so. I think its only a matter of episodes before he decides to pull his head out of his ass (so to speak) and realize he needs to actually step up and help fix the mess he has made.


    -I think the writers are wasting time with Kevin, trying to prolong his usefulness on the show so they have a reason to keep the actor around. Really I feel like we could maybe do without seeing him for a little while now.


    -So far this season episodes have either been Cas heavy/Dean heavy or a little of everyone, I'm still waiting to find out what Sam's personal arc is and for the progression with Crowley, Adaddon, the other angels, Metatron and even the Zeke storyline is moving too slow.

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  12. Dean's not the only one who can be a dick, so can Sam and Cas. But yes, I agree. Dean was not a dick this episode.

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  13. This isn't a gripe review, it's a whine review. It also seems to have missed nearly all the points of both the episode, and the season. IIRC, they specifically said Kevin can't read the tablet because Metatron wrote it in different language. Personally, that might be hints towards Metatron's pre-prepared plans. Dean didn't separate from Sam because he can't trust Ezekiel. He separated to keep Sam safe from the angels after Castiel. Also, Castiel is so responsible, he's given the keys to the store. At what point in the story is it ever shown he can't watch a baby sleep for three hours? This review also seems to completely have missed Dean's character growth. He's a "dick" to Castiel, because he doesn't understand how far the angel has fallen. He still thinks of Castiel as an angel, only without powers. They made that pretty clear, especially with the lines where Dean thinks the job is "cover", that Cas is only interested in the woman, and he expects Cas to pop out of the car after the school scene. As to Cas as the ladies' man? Uh, again no. The guy's completely alone, and desperate for human interaction. He also didn't ask Dean for dating advice. Dean offered it.


    Lastly, it was pretty clear at the end that Cas was starting to consider working on helping the angels, especially after bringing up the subject with Dean, plus the closing show where Cas looks up at the sky.


    Please stop using the words "fandom's gripes". You don't speak for everyone, and certainly not me. Use the words "my gripes".

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  14. THX for posting what I'm thinking.

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  15. Dean tends to be more up on pop culture than Sam so I don't agree. But it was a stupid line and cheap joke.

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  16. I don't agree with most of these gripes so you column does not speak for me and I resent your implication that you are speaking for everyone.

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  17. "Things I Don't Like" is not equal to a problem with the writing. This seems more the work of someone viewing the show through hater eyes, and not an actual critique of the episode. And why is this even necessary? Do other shows here have a "Gripe Review"?


    Where's the mention of contrivance the show needed in order to move the plot along (Nora not using the word "babysitter"?). What about how Dean and Cas must have busted their butts to get rid of the dead angel and other evidence? How about mentioning that Castiel's hand isn't going to heal all that well (or that really, the rose thorns probably wouldn't have cut it that badly)? Or that we're 6 episodes in, and now we're finally starting to get info on the upcoming Demon War they hinted at in last season's finale (along with the Angel Wars). Actual gripes, not perceived ones.

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  18. I know I should trust the writers and stuff, but it's difficult when it seems 80% of them haven't bothered to actually watch the show.

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  19. one thing that i understood is that day by day they are making dean ans castiel's relationship completely different from it's earlier seasons!!And i hate to say it,if by the end of the day dean always choses sam whatever the circumstances,then i really don't see any point making cas a season regular after 2 seasons just to contribute as a third-wheel in dean and sam's storyline and nothing more.It's like put in two filler episodes,then one castiel episode and then 1 episode continuing the main storyline and so on. i love supernatural but they need to break outside this pattern,it's getting old.we all know how good it was during season 4 and 5,so they can definitely do better,they just have try it!! this is completely my opinion though!!

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  20. 1) Ezekiel asked Dean to keep Castiel away from him, otherwise he would be forced to leave Sam's body. causing Sam to die.
    Dean is protecting his brother whose welfare he puts before everyone else's, as he told us so passionately in 'Sacrifice.'
    Dean is not protecting Castiel, but Sam.
    X
    Castiel is the last person I would want Sam to be friends with after all the bad he has done to him.

    I hope he stays well away from Sam, the 'abomination', as he so sweetly called him; and as for Castiel being Dean's best friend, well that is debatable if one thinks back on all the lies and betrayal Dean has been treated to by this presumed friend.
    x
    Castiel is not in any way a Winchester. Sam and Dean are the only Winchesters, unless we want to count in poor forgotten Adam as the third one.
    X

    2) Dean is in no way responsible for Castiel or his needs.
    If Castiel was dumb enough to let himself be outmanuevered by Metatron, it's certainly not Dean's fault.

    If Dean is condescending to Castiel, he has every right to be, as the ex-amgel has done nothing but cause problems thanks to his incredible ongoing naivieness.
    x

    3) Not in the least interested in Castiel's social life. He has already been married and living as a human, and if he hasn't learned anything after all this time then he's really one slow student.
    x

    4) The whole Castiel human or angel dilemma is simply boring, so no interest there.

    5) Kevin is getting to the boring stage too; he's just a filler, same as Castiel.Time for them both to go.
    x

    The only major characters on this show for me are Sam and Dean. Anyone else is a secondary character; the best and most entertaining of which this season so far, are Crowley and Abaddon.

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  21. wow,your love for castiel is overflowing!!

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  22. This kind of review is a good idea, thanks :)


    1. Yes, the whole Zeke-the-great-fixer is annoying, I expected w/o Cass they supposed to be more like their old selves, when getting injured or dying was big issues, now it's even worse than when they had Cass, at least Cass mostly helped them when they were countering big big forces, like angels, now even a mute, ridiculous witch can pose a problem for The Winchesters! Duh!


    2. I didn't think Dean was ridiculing Cass, it seemed more he wanted to rile him up, to encourage him to fight and not submitting to his fate, it was clear when he was insisting for Cass to accompany him on the case. Though I expected he would have helped him to settle somewhere, and with money, ID,... when he kicked him out, he was a dick to Cass in that aspect.


    3. No, Cass didn't seem that concerned with Nora, he was a good employer and she was a good employee, that asking out was just a bonus. His main concern was learning and trying to live as a human.


    4. True but really can't care about it less.


    5. This episode was a look into Cass character development, of course he's experiencing different situations and that makes his motives and path.


    6. Don't let me start with that! Really?! A prophet can't read the God's words and a demon can?!!! Really? O_o
    They didn't even think maybe angels could read those doodles!!!

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  23. What can I say! He just annoys me now.

    I liked him well enough in Lazarus Rising, then he just went downhill from there.
    x

    The fact that he keeps getting forgiven by everyone for all the evil he has done without ever having had to pay for it, makes me dislike him all the more.

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  24. This isn't a gripe review, it's a whine review.

    I thought about calling it that. But I worried certain people might mix it up with an article about alcoholic beverages.

    IIRC, they specifically said Kevin can't read the tablet because Metatron wrote it in a different language.

    Good point, like I said, I don't have problems with that one, but it was heavily discussed in the sources I mentioned above so it made it here.

    He's a "dick" to Castiel, because he doesn't understand how far the angel has fallen, and he certainly can't relate. He still thinks of Castiel as an angel, only without powers. They made that pretty clear.

    That's a good theory to explain his behavior. However, despite your claim, they didn't make it pretty clear. Since you are the first person who pointed it out and I wasn't the only person not seeing it that way the gripe stands.

    Lastly, it was pretty clear at the end that Cas was starting to consider working on helping the angels, especially after bringing up the subject with Dean, plus the closing scene where Cas looks up at the sky.

    Again, there wasn't enough clarification that this is indeed what he wanted. Looking at the sky doesn't convey that much. Now they could have constructed the episode in a way that created an arc for Castiel, one in which he would move from being desolate and resigned to staying a store clerk to becoming a champion for the salvation of his kind. Unfortunately all they showed him to do was babysit and being attacked by Ephraim, neither of which gives him an incentive to change. This is exactly what Gripe #3 is about.

    Please stop using the words "fandom's gripes". You don't speak for everyone, and certainly not me. Use the words "my gripes" or "gripes I saw that I agreed with".

    This is already covered. Read the review more carefully again. The parts that are my opinion are marked with the adverb "personally" and other similar indicators. The parts that aren't my opinion but the opinion of others are also clearly marked, as are the parts where I and groups of fans agree. "Fandom opinion" is what I may use for a large majority of fans agreeing on something. Instead of saying "a very large group of fans" I simply say "fandom." Again if you look again you'll see I've only used that twice in this review, once about Ezekiel and the other about love interests.

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  25. I don't claim to speak for everyone. The parts that are my opinion are marked, as are the parts I disagree with (such as the Kevin issue,) and the parts I picked up from Social Media and fandom forums. You are more than welcome to disagree with all of it and discuss your reasons here. That way people who disagree with you can discuss your points of view, where as simply saying "this is wrong" ends the dialogue with no substance to back it up.

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  26. Those are your opinions. Should everyone be of like mind? If not - should one brow-beat, relentlessly, dissenting opinions or assume your opinion is the only one justified?
    Personally I enjoy the ride the show takes me on - in general. Just not one to watch the show in the hopes of smelling as many farts as possible. Then again, I'm not a wannbe published critique either.

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  27. Back In Black Tricksteress 95November 16, 2013 at 10:45 PM

    This is a good idea. So here are some complaints :)
    1. Love/hate with Zeke, I keep on saying that's he's not innocent. I wonder where Zeke would've went before jumping Sam?.
    I understand the goodness in it, he saved Sam. That's where I like Zeke. Also when he brought them back. But I think that's a rip-off claiming its his own power because I think its Sam powersource. At the end of the day Zeke is not in danger yet he's well hidden in Sam so far. I think if Crowley gets Sam blood he is going to spill, but really Sam already suspicous I assume.
    When Zeke explained to Dean that he dosen't want to be there longer, I think I may have detected a lie. Logically who would want to leave in the angel apocolyspe!. I am concerned that Zeke is going to use Sam against Metraton or to be a leader himself like Abbadon.
    What is next in store for Sam/Zeke will just haveto wait and see.
    2. I can understand where Dean is coming from, I think its pretty normal actually considering what he's been through. I just don't like the fact Dean had to lie to Cas with everything though.
    3. I don't really have complaints about this. Obviously Cas will be back in the team free will!.
    4. People do that in real life.
    5. Emotional rollercoster, at least he still wants to help.
    6. I don't have a issue with this either.
    7. Praise- We did get to see more insight.

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  28. Oh, he's paid plenty. You just don't want to see it since you're blinded by hate.

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  29. Since you are the first person who pointed it out and I wasn't the only person not seeing it that way the gripe stands.

    "Fandom opinion" is what I use for a majority of fans agreeing on something. Instead of saying "a very large group of fans" I simply say "fandom."

    This is the whole problem with your attitude. First off, I'm not the only person who's pointed it out, I'm just the first person you've seen. I've seen others mention it, including in official reviews. Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean the issue wasn't clear. Given your other comprehension issues in your "gripe" list, I'm really not all that surprised you missed things they were beating you over the head with. And I'm sorry, but if I was a writer on the show, I'd be laughing at your list, considering how many things you "didn't" get.

    Stop acting like you speak for everyone - or even for that matter, a "very large group of fans". That's a fallacy of entitled fans - not limited to SPN - who really aren't that entitled, mainly because they've surrounded themselves by about 20 yes men, and therefore then believe everyone thinks like they do.


    I highly doubt you're even speaking for 1% of the "fandom", let alone all the viewers.

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  30. Well I certainly hope you come back for the next gripe review and give us more of your views, preferably about the article.

    No writer is getting inundated with "hater" complaints. Maybe 3 or 4 people, but by far and away they're getting an overwhelming response that people enjoyed it and don't feel the "problems" you saw are in fact, problems.

    And this is why these reviews exist, so that writers and happy fans who are surrounded with yes men don't only hear the cheers, but also the voices of those who may not have 'enjoyed' their choices and would like to point out the holes before the ship sinks.

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  31. I find the Kevin can't read the tablets ridiculous, they did make a big deal last year that the angels were not made to read the angel tablet. They also made a big deal about how demons can't read the angel tablet, but now Crowley can read the translation that Kevin can't get in English and Dean doesn't even think of taking a copy of the cuneiform to show Cas and check if he can read it. I so wish someone would agree to be the continuity person and just check these things out.

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  32. My gripe number one is from pretty much episode one on. Why is it that every single angel who fell from heaven immediately went out and got driving lessons EXCEPT Cas who has been hanging around earth for years, often with varying amounts of Grace. If Hael who last visited earth to form the Grand Canyon could drive, and Ephraim could drive, why can't Cas. I have heard the idea that the angels are picking up on known skills of their vessels, but Cas used Jimmy's vessel for at least a year, so shouldn't some of that muscle memory exist.


    I do think that Cas is doing a good thing making a life for himself. But isn't he making it harder than it has to be. He has not one but TWO already established identities that he could use to settle down and make a life. There is the aforementioned Jimmy Novak, who has the added advantage of having the same fingerprints and dental records. Or, if Cas is afraid the angels will remember Jimmy Novak's name, how about finding good old Daphne (wife number 2) and settling in using whatever ID worked to get Emmanuel a marriage license, a house and an identity as a healer. Okay, he can't heal any more, but Daphne was willing to take in a naked, amnesiac who came out of the river marry him and set up house. It is unlikely that the angels knew about her. He doesn't have to live the lives of Jimmy or Emmanuel, just get the documentation, work on his Emmanuel memories which should include sex and get on with his life while not battling the problems of no credit history and no proper ID.

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  33. And this is why these reviews exist, so that writers who are surrounded by yes men and happy fans don't just hear the cheers, but also the voices of those who may not have 'enjoyed' their choices and would like to point out the holes before the ship sinks.

    Again, way to show your entitlement when you're not all that entitled, considering your implied assumption that the many yes men who like the show and are letting TPTB know it are clearly not as smart as you. The show is not sinking, and ratings are better than they have been in years.

    Sorry to disillusion you, but I am perfectly capable of seeing problems myself, as is most everyone else. Sucks you're outnumbered, but that's not the writers' fault.

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  34. Who has said Cas can't drive? He drove in the Croatoan episode. Also, it's a vastly different issue being an actual human versus simply an energy-drained angel. At no point has Castiel ever had to deal with human issues, like using a bathroom or needing to eat to survive. Dean even reminded Emmanuel about the fact he didn't have to eat. I also doubt he had sex in that puritanical marriage.


    And Jimmy is not Castiel. Castiel also did not inhabit Jimmy when Jimmy was in control, and therefore would not have the experience of "sex".

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  35. And don't forget that Sam was a barkeep/waiter and a hotel maintenance man. I'm not sure why the writers insisted on having Dean put down Cas for his job. It's good, honest work. What's the problem w/that?

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  36. 1. I had major problems w/the convenience store clerk bashing from the writers. To have Cas say there is a human dignity in his job and immediately thereafter have Nora ask him to clean the mess in the bathroom was to imply there is NO dignity w/that job. It was played for laughs, but I didn't find it funny. It bothered me. There is dignity in honest work.

    Cas took a job that was offered to him and got some pride in doing his job well. I think we were supposed to think Cas was “better than that,” but I found it very distasteful and not in the spirit of the show I’ve been watching for the past 8 years. If Dean had said something like, “Cas, you have a wealth of knowledge that other hunters can use. I know you like this job, but I think you should be hunting,” I wouldn’t have had an issue. If he tried to tell Cas that his hunter knowledge was being wasted in that job, that would have been fine but the show took it too far by implying the job wasn’t dignified.

    Since when does Dean look down on blue collar work? And as others have mentioned, Dean worked construction when he was Lisa. Sam was a barkeep/waiter in S5 and a hotel maintenance man in S8. John was a mechanic.

    2. Dean’s attitude re: Cas choices was also troublesome. What did Dean expect Cas to do? He has no identity, no SS#, no friends, no family, no skills, no resume – so what did he do? He got a job and was trying to make a life for himself. What was Dean’s problem w/that? Saying “you used to be angel” was pointless b/c he’s no longer an angel; he’s human. He has no training as a hunter, and unlike Super Special Charlie, he can’t just pick it up.

    3. I do think Cas had a change of mind/heart at the end. It seemed like he was re-thinking his decision and might be ready to go out and help his fallen brethren. I hope he does b/c I am finding his human journey to be a bit on the boring side. I also hope his grace is returned!

    4. One thing I found interesting was Cas’s perspective on his time as an angel, and how it had pretty much been a failure. I feel Sam has similar thoughts in thinking he’s failed at everything he’s tried too. They have a lot in common. It’s a shame the writers have never bothered to develop a true friendship btw the two.

    5. I agree that it was good to NOT see Zeke this week, and I’ve been loving what Jared has done with the dual roles. But it has been a little much seeing Sam get knocked out each week. I still wish Sam was more curious about his health and ability to hunt, but that doesn’t look like it’s gonna happen any time soon.

    6. I, like others, also had a problem w/Nora letting a virtual stranger babysit her kid. She's as bad a Lisa Braeden who let a virtual stranger move into her home.

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  37. I totally agree with that statement about Castiel not being a Winchester. I was reading the OPs piece, hit that line and came to a screeching halt. He really needs to talk to both of the brothers before he can even be a friend to both of them, let alone a Winchester. I have only voted for the "trio" about 10 times in the People's Choice Awards because I have NEVER thought of them as a trio. The cops on Castle are a much better bromance that Dean, Sam, and Castiel... When I saw that, I was like "Huh?"!

    Dean and Castiel are friends periodically. Castiel and Sam have said they are friends, but I don't feel it. Until I see a bit of bonding time between Castiel and Sam, Castiel is just Dean's friend... I feel Kevin is closer to being a little brother than Castiel is to being a brother. But I still wouldn't call anybody but Sam, Dean and Adam Winchesters.

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  38. I do think Cas had a change of mind/heart at the end. It seemed like he was re-thinking his decision and might be ready to go out and help his fallen brethren.

    I think so too. My problem though, as I stated in another reply, is that I don't think the episode establishes a good enough rationale for his change of heart. He was down and dejected in the beginning. By the end he missed out on a date and nearly got killed by one of his own kind while being told his plight was too loud. I don't see how that resolution would spur him into wanting to help the other angels.

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  39. I didn't get any sense that Dean's comments to Cas were there for a joke or a witty line. They were likely supposed to sound wrong.

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  40. The problem with it is that Dean saw Cas as a warrior and a fighter. He couldn't process that Cas was working in a store. If he had no idea who Cas was, he would have been polite toward him. I think he was also projecting some of his own sense of aimlessness and loss onto Cas. He is spending most of his time in guilt and lying to Sam, so he hoped maybe Cas was living a life he can't. When he just saw Cas behind a cash register, he was thrown. It wasn't nice, but it felt real to me.

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  41. This episode was actually the first this season where I thought they clearly knew where they were going with him. He was lying to himself about wanting to work at the store and not face conflict. At the end, he realized that.

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  42. The entire point of the scene with Ephraim was to give Cas an incentive to change. Cas' pain was so great that he was drowning in it. He didn't know who he was or what he wanted to be. When he killed Ephraim, which was the first time he's had any real control over his choices this season, he began to question what he wanted.


    I thought it was a great writing choice to have his first scenes opening the store and his last scenes opening the store, his body language clearly different in both cases. I thought this was much more subtle and impressive than a scene where Cas literally says, "I don't want to do this anymore."

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  43. Which parts of this did you think showed they hadn't bothered to watch the show? I thought it was one of the most in character episodes in a long time.

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  44. Crowley can read ancient languages. He couldn't read the tablet itself.

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  45. I didn't think they were saying being a clerk is to not have dignity. Nora was a very kind woman. There was never any hint she was wrong to do her job. Cas' job wasn't presented as undignified either. He just didn't want to keep doing it.

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  46. Dean made Cas homeless, again, and then when he sees him again he acts like a complete douchebag? That was so out of character.

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  47. Was it out of character? Dean can sometimes be a douchebag. He's my favorite character, but he can be. He's said some dickish things to Cas, to Sam, to other people. He had some sort of idea of what he thought Cas would be, and when it didn't meet reality, he said a few crappy things to try to get Cas to be what he wanted. He realized his mistake very quickly, apologized, and tried to support Cas. That's huge progress from past seasons, where his reaction to a mentally ill Cas was "nobody cares that you're broken."


    This was about Dean letting go of his expectations and fantasies of Cas.

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  48. I don't really think Dean saw this as someone working in a store. If Dean thought anyone he cared about was hiding away from reality, he'd make a few negative comments. He hated "normal" life. He assumes someone like Cas does too. If he didn't know Cas and Cas was just a regular store employee, Dean would have been polite.


    Dean leaving him with nothing was just a plot point because they wanted Cas to be on his own with nothing to help him.

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  49. I didn't take the Cas/Nora scenes the way you described them. The whole idea of what normal people would do was the point - Cas isn't a normal person. He's trying to be, but that's not what he is. Cas wanted to be the average human. He assumed that being the average human means dating. He thought Nora wanted to go out with him. As soon as he thought this, he prepared, because again that's what he thought he was supposed to do. If you notice his interaction with her or how he talks about her to Dean, he never shows any attraction to her, he never seems to have a strong desire for her. He actually seems to sort of dread leaving the car. When she tells him he's there to babysit, he looks embarrassed at his mistake, but he isn't disappointed. He never shows any sign of wanting to ask Nora on a real date when she comes back home.


    Have you ever known someone who is depressed, and sad, and assumes if they go out on a date, this somehow validates them, it will make them feel better, it's what they're supposed to do?


    That's what Cas was doing here.


    I saw zero moments where he was doing the happy dance because he's got a lady.

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  50. I think having her ask him to clean the mess in the bathroom directly after Cas said the job gave him dignity, and having Dean smirk was the show's way of saying the job isn't dignified. It was designed to get a laugh. "Haha! Cas thinks it's dignified but he has to clean a mess in the bathroom." Whatever!
    I found it very elitist and unlike the Supernatural I've watched for years.

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  51. Oh, I agree w/you there. Maybe he's not as happy as he thought. Or maybe seeing that misguided angel - forgot his name - sparked something in him. I'm not sure.

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  52. I don't think Sam and Cas are friends either. I never have.
    I did just read that Sam and Cas are supposed to go off together after the secret comes out, and I wonder how that's going to play out. We will see them onscreen, or will their adventures happen off screen since the writers don't know how to write scenes btw the two.

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  53. Dean has called Castiel family. He's also called Kevin family. So according to show canon, they are part of the Winchesters now.

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  54. Well, what was Cas supposed to do w/no home, no support, no Id, no SS#, no resume, no skills, etc? He has to eat and sleep. He can't just go around hunting.

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  55. I thought the point was to show that it WASN'T undignified, that Dean may have felt it was for Cas, but Cas didn't. This isn't a subtle show, so if we were supposed to see it as beneath Cas, we likely would have heard wacky music and Cas making pouty faces.


    I felt like the episode went out of its way to not showcase the job as a bad place - it gave Cas a home, and someone who at least was kind toward him [even if she used him as a babysitter], just that Cas, as hard as he was trying, did not fit in.

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  56. He had no real ability or control over his life until Dean slid the angel sword to him. I think once he killed Ephraim and then had time to think about what Ephraim had said, he began to question himself.

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  57. And I think the show went out of its way to showcase the job as horrible and undignified. I had a real problem w/the sequencing of that dialogue.
    So, I guess we can agree to disagree :-)

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  58. I think the angels would know about her, as they knew Cas was staying in a mental institution around that time, and we don't even know if he was admitted under the name Emmanuel.


    There was never any indication that Emmanuel had sex with anyone.

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  59. I guess for me, when the show wants to make fun of people, they really make it clear (like the vegans last week). But we can agree to disagree.

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  60. I definitely think he was questioning his decisions at the end. He was feeling more compelled to help his brethren than before. Whatever gets him out of the boring state in which he's been placed works for me..

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  61. So, they're Winchesters b/c Dean said so. What about Sam? What if he doesn't think if Cas and Kevin as family?
    If Dean wants to claim them (and everyone he meets nowadays) as family, that's fine, but I don't know if I would call them "Winchesters."

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  62. I just wish we had more of a chance to see his day to day life, instead of being tortured and killed so much. I think that is why I enjoyed this episode so much.

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  63. I don't think it was a obvious as w/the vegans, but they were definitely, IMO, slamming the job. There was no other point to her asking him to clean the "MESS" in the bathroom immediately after he speaks about the dignity the job gives him other than to make a statement about his comment re: the job.
    That's how I saw it.

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  64. I can understand what you mean. The scene made me feel proud of Cas, because he wasn't letting it get him down. It was his job, and he was fine with that. It's how so many people have to be. It felt relatively real to me, compared to how this show often treats reality. But I can understand why it bothered you.

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  65. His day-to-day life is far too mundane and tame for my taste. To each his/her own, but I wouldn't want to see more of his daily life unless he's actually doing something interesting. Learning about toothpaste and urinating and how to stir coffee is just not entertaining to me.
    I'm glad you enjoyed it though. I thought the episode was just "okay." It didn't wow me, but I didn't hate it either.

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  66. Yes, I liked Cas's attitude about his job. It was Dean's attitude I found troubling and the larger point the show seemed to be making, but Cas was happy w/his job. I hear you about it "feeling real." Cas did not bother me at all in this episode. Granted, I found the episode a little slow and on the boring side, but I was fine w/Cas.

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  67. Well I don't think we'll be seeing him urinate, unless we have an Oz crossover. I didn't really mean seeing him learn basic things, I just meant letting the character breathe. Many Cas episodes seem to cram about 10 things into the plot and I feel like I'm drowning. I wouldn't need to see him learning him to organize his CD collection - he could be working a case, or saving the day. I just ask that he do this in a way where everything isn't followed by exclamation points.

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  68. That's true, and I think Dean realized this after his initial remarks. I think it was just his gut reaction to Cas.

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  69. Ahh. . . . I understand! And I agree :-)

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  70. I didn't see an adoption ceremony. Even if Sam was included in some of this "profound bond" that Dean and Castiel are said to have, that still doesn't make him a Winchester. They are definitely brothers in arms, and Sam may consider him a friend. But, they are not a trio by any stretch of the imagination. Sam and Dean are a duo and Castiel and Dean have been a duo. Even though Sam and Bobby didn't have many scenes together either, I did see enough with both Sam and Dean to consider Bobby "family"... that didn't make Bobby a Winchester.

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  71. In my opinion, even if Sam and Dean both felt that Castiel and Kevin were "family" that still doesn't make them Winchesters. They have fought and died for each other and that is a profound bond, but Meg just died for them recently, is she a Winchester? All I need is for Sam to say something like "you will always be a Winchester in my book" and Castiel to be happy to be called a Winchester and I wouldn't be as offended by it. But, I'm sure Dean would have called Benny family if they would have stayed around each other and Benny would have stayed "clean and sober". He was fast enough to sacrifice him to save Sam.



    If Sam was in danger again, Dean would sacrifice any of them if necessary... although he would probably sacrifice himself first if given the chance. Sam and

    Dean's bond is truly deep... which is why I will never believe Sam would have not looked for Dean after Season 7. I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I will never get over Dean throwing the Amulet away or Sam not looking for Dean. I totally blame the writers for OOC moments like these.

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  72. A lot of people seem to be reading Dean's comments as a class snobbery, when I read it partially as hunter vs. nonhunter snobbery. Dean thinks regular jobs are fine for other people, but not for his family - and he considers Cas part of his family. Whenever Sam has tried to do normal things, Dean has hounded him without mercy. Cas has a wealth of supernatural knowledge and I believe Dean sees Cas cleaning toilets as a waste of his talents. Dean has also mocked a lot of jobs over the course of the series - including police officers in the pilot. I also think part of the reason Dean was running off at the mouth was because he was uncomfortable - he felt guilty about tossing Cas out. But by looking in on Cas, and trying to get Cas pointed in a direction Dean felt was more appropriate, he was being protective - Dean style. You can agree or disagree about whether Dean's comments were appropriate, but I don't think they were out of character.

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  73. My main gripe w/that sequence of dialogue was w/the writers, not Dean. As you said, Dean makes fun of a lot of jobs. I had an issue w/the show having Cas talk about the dignity he gets from the job and then following that w/a request for him to clean the mess in the bathroom. Dean smirks, and the audience walks away thinking the job is not dignified. I thought that was elitist, and the show has never gone there before!

    I agree that Dean wanted Cas to be doing something else, but Cas wasn't left w/very many options once Dean kicked him out of the bunker. I'm not sure why Dean expected to find Cas hunting or doing anything spectacular.

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  74. Oh, I completely agree w/you! And I'm pretty sure Dean considered Benny a "brother." In any event, I don't think seeing others as "family" makes them Winchesters.



    I also agree w/you about Sam not looking for Dean last year. That was completely OOC. Even Jared found it OOC and hard to get through. I was also ticked at Dean for trashing that amulet. Honestly, I hated that episode. I've never watched it again.

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  75. A lot of people seem to be reading Dean's comments as a class snobbery, when I read it partially as hunter vs. nonhunter snobbery. Dean thinks regular jobs are fine for other people, but not for his family - and he considers Cas part of his family.


    Very interesting analysis. Dean does seem to have a negative disposition towards his family working ordinary jobs, or living like ordinary humans. Sam was a hunter and Dean made it perfectly clear how he felt about him exchanging that life for college and the pursuit of law. So perhaps his resentment toward a warrior angel becoming a store clerk comes from that too.

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  76. Thanks. Good article, even though I don't agree with everything. ;)


    As much as Dean has complained about hunting, he idolized his father and what they were doing growing up. He always believed they were heroes. He's never been able to walk away from hunting. And I think is this attitude is part of why he doesn't thinks the regular rules don't apply to them - like him having no issues with credit card fraud, breaking out of jail, or bringing family back from the dead. If he's not willing to let Sam walk away from hunting, he's certainly not going to let Cas, who used to be a powerful angel.

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  77. I think what we were seeing at that moment were events/dialogue chosen to illustrate Dean's perspective - not the writer trying to say something about the job of a convenience store clerk.

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  78. The fact that he keeps getting forgiven by everyone for all the evil he has done without ever having had to pay for it, makes me dislike him all the more.


    I always scratch my head when I see someone says this. You make it sound like the show gives Castiel breaks when in fact no one has been dragged through the mud as much as he is for deeds a lot of other characters similarly committed. For example making a pact with Crowley. Both Sam and Dean did that, as did Bobby. But Cas was the only one who was blamed for it. Also how do you know everyone forgave him? Dean never directly said he forgave him, just hinted at it when he needed him to defeat the Leviathans, and that was after a full season of berating and abandoning him. It also happened after Castiel literally destroyed himself and his sanity to right the wrongs he did. Which brings me to the last claim. How has he not paid for his actions? He took on Sam's mental illness and reduced himself to a drooling mess. If that's not enough penance for a well intended mistake I don't know what is.

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  79. I must say I disagree, but that's fine. We can agree to disagree :-)

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  80. Yes, definitely. The point of the scene was to show that Cas found dignity in doing what most people would consider undignified things. Someone has to clean the restroom. He's grateful for the work. Reminds me of how people look down on migrant workers, but they're the ones doing the backbreaking work 10 hours a day of picking your fruits and vegetables so you can easily buy them (and for cheap) at your nearby store.

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  81. I Agree.
    He is experimenting human life, but he doesn't know what he likes and what he wants for himself. For now, he is just imitating people because he needs a coverage from angels.

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  82. I can't stand the fact Dean is lying to Cass e Sam again. And even if he has good reasons to hide Zeke's possession from Sammy, I simply don't understand why he doesn't tell the truth to Castiel.
    After the "I need you" and "you're family" this is unacceptable.

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  83. I think he wants to just give Cas a chance at a new life. He thinks he will drag Cas down, and that Cas doesn't want him around. He also doesn't want Cas to spend the rest of his existence focusing on angels, especially now that he doesn't think they can ever go back to Heaven.

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  84. I absolutely love this type of commentary! Thank you so much for posting this. Are you planning on continuing it?

    #1 - It's not that I like or don't like the Zeke/secrets and lying/plot thing its just that they have done this type of thing before. SPN's seasons tend to rinse, wash and repeat brother A hides something/brother A feels guilty/brother B finds out/ they fight for the remainder of the season/season finale they make up and at the same time play Sam gets myth arc/Dean gets personal arc. It gets old and the oldness gets annoying. To sum up, if this was a new plot twist, I would be fine with how its going.

    #2 - I have mixed feelings about this one. Yes, I think the lines were out of character for Dean - but I think that the writers were trying to show something that didn't quite make it across. Or at least I hope so. But it is in character for Dean to be a dick to people, even people he cares about. One fan pointed out that the writers were being snobbish when Cas said that there is honor in what he does and then his boss asked him to clean the bathrooms. I completely agree. On a side note, I did like that Cas made Dean wait until he was done with his job.

    #3 - Agree.

    #4 - I disagree. We don't know the previous relationship Nora has with Cas including how long they have known each other. She said he is one of the most responsible people she has ever met and the baby was supposed to sleep through the night. Babysitting is something a lot of teen girls do - most adults should be able to as well. I babysat when I was a teen - many of the people I babysat for didn't ask for references and got my name out of the neighborhood flyer. Lots of them ended up being repeat customers. Just saying. What is irresponsible is as his employer, she would have access to his home address, his social security, his background check - and considering he made everything up, its irresponsible he got the job in the first place. It would potentially made a lot more sense if he used Jimmy Novak's info-not sure if the angels would be checking for this identity or not.



    #5 - Agree - I think that a lot of the problem here is that the episode sound was kinda cramming a lot of things in a tiny 40 minute period. They meant the episode to be very character driven and have a lot of growth - it just came across as confusing.


    #6 - OMG Agree. I didn't understand that at all. Why the hell can Kevin read the Demon Tablet but not the angel? Really?

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  85. Why does everyone dish on Dean when he don't do what they want him to do, if he goes against Castiel everyone is calling him a dick, or a heartless person. I love Dean for all his faults he's been my favorite since season one, he may not do what every fan wants him to do but he does have his reasons. Everyone wants Dean and Cas to have a relationship and dumb Sam, that is not going to happen now or in the future. Sam will always comes first in Dean's life like it should be, he choose Sam over Cas and all his fans get angry, why they want Destiel I don't. I totally disagree with Gripe 2 all the way. As for Zeke I don't hate him I'm a little leery about him and his motives, wonder what he has in plan once Sam is healed and himself. Only time will tell when all of this comes to light on what the bigger plan is, until then I'm going to wait and see how it all comes down.

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  86. I realize everyone has a different opinion but I'm still confused about what was confusing with Cas in this episode. I thought everything he did here made more sense than almost any episode he's had in years. Episodes like the one with April are ones where I'd say too much was crammed into an episode.


    Jimmy's wife and child are, presumably, still around. They would probably find out at some point that his identity is being used. It would also make me severely dislike the character.


    Metatron probably would not make the angel tablet as easy to read as the demon tablet.

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  87. I realize everyone has a different opinion but I'm still confused about what was confusing with Cas in this episode. I thought everything he did here made more sense than almost any episode he's had in years.

    That's a fair statement and in essence correct. However the problem with Cas (and to an extent with Dean) in this episode is a disjointedness from the rest of the events of the season. When things such as what happened in 9.03 happen to a character, it effects how they behave the next time you see them. Dean would joke about Cas having a clerical job, but not when he was forced to kick him out of the bunker due to extraneous circumstances. Similarly Castiel might be interested in dating and exploring the pleasures of human courtship, but not when he was stabbed and killed doing it the last time, and not when his life in under constant threat. It's the keeping with the flow and context of the main story, as opposed to treating each episode as a standalone, that causes the issue here.

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  88. I think that the actions, lines and scenes were murky about which direction Cas is heading- quite possibly because Cas himself doesn't really know, but also, the writing wasn't clear to me and it seemed rather crammed in. Cas wants to have a romance, he wants to be a regular human, he wants to help all the angels, he is going to kill any angel he meets, he is responsible and model employee living in the back of the store, he is in pain, but wants to go on a date, he got kicked out of the secret fort house and is doing A-OK. Some of these things are conflicting - but again, I think that a lot of it is Cas is conflicted - which can cause the viewers confusion. These are things that they tried to convey and did on a certain level. But for being a character driven episode, I felt we just got a lot of highlights and no depth. And we a character is making life changing decisions- I expect a bit more depth. I am glad you didn't find it confusing. :)


    Using Jimmy Novak's info was just a loop hole around not having any identification, not seeing him get ID from Dean, lacking skills to create that identification and lacking social skills to con someone out of needing it. I am glad they didn't use this loop hole, but it left me wondering how the hell did Cas pull off lying to everyone about who he is. In the episode with April, he was in and out of homeless shelters - I don't think that they require ID (could totally be wrong).


    Metatron was suppose to scribe what God said onto the tablet before the creation of written English - Kevin was able to transcribe the demon tablet in English. If Metatron wrote the tablets in God's language - why does one make English and one make Cuneiform? It just doesn't make sense to me. If you have any ideas, please let me know.

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  89. #5 - So agree! I would actually be more accepting of Castiel on the series if the damn writers would take the time, like they have with Dean, and create a real believable friendship between the two. Just because your brother's friends acknowledge you once in a while, that doesn't make him friends with you, too. If they didn't need to have Dean dodging research, it would've been interesting to see Sam go out and try to help/investigate the murders going on. A lot of opportunity for bonding based on mutual issues, not only with their relationships with Dean, but the commonalities in their struggles to lead their lives. Sams been in that position a number of times. I just really would've enjoyed watching that more. Like I'd have liked to have watched Grandpa Winchester and Sam teaming up in that time travel ep last season.

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  90. Your idea of a well-intended mistake is rather strange.

    Castiel purposefully made a deal with the King of hell to take over Heaven. He cruelly broke Sam's wall, then double-crossed Crowley, opened Purgatory, ingested the Leviathans and happily massacred his brother angels plus a large amount of innocent humans.
    x

    Castiel destroyed his sanity to right the wrongs?

    Oh wow; what about poor Sam's sanity? He suffered terrrible hallucinations for a year thanks to the 'sweet' angel Castiel.
    Then Castiel did 'penance' in Purgatory by squatting beside a lake for a year. Poor baby!

    I wonder how HE would have held up under the torture Sam had to suffer in 180 years at Lucifer's hand.
    There is NO way Castiel has been punished for his sins and that's the main reason I can't feel any kind of sympathy for him.
    The writers may make Sam and Dean forgive him with excuses such "Because he's Cass" but I'm afraid that's not enough for me.

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  91. I think that the best thing in the relationship between Dean and Castiel is that the angel doesn't mind being in the second place after Sammy. And even if I am a destiel shipper (sorry! ;p) I love the fact that Dean won't discard Sam, not for power, not for saving his own life, not for a woman, not for Cass. I just find ooc the whole "kick out without explanation (or money, or clothes)" thing. Didn't you find odd that the usually caretaker Dean didn't help more his friend?

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  92. You don't have to be sorry for being a shippper for Destiel, I like Castiel don't get me wrong on that. Just tired of some fans attacking him when he don't do what they want. Dean will always choose his Sammy even over Cas, sometimes I think Cas forgets that like at the end of Season 8. He wanted Dean to help him with his task, which is important to Cas and it should be. Dean had to get to Sam to stop him from what he was about to do. As for kicking Cas out I don't find that odd at all, he had to keep Sam safe with Cas there he wasn't. Eventually the truth will come out on why Dean had to do, wonder how Cas will react to it cause of Ezekiel since Cas stuck up for him.

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  93. I think that Dean will have to say just one word "Purgatory". And Then Cass should be like "Oh, you're right, I'm sorry... Do you want some pie?"

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  94. Cas doesn't have a car *to* drive. For all we know, he could be perfectly capable of it. Hael and Ephraim dropped into vessels that had vehicles. Any car of Jimmy's is back at the Novak household in Pontiac, and the odds of Dean letting him drive the Impala are slim xD


    As to the rest, I think it was smart of Cas to not use his vessel's or his amnesiac self's identities. He'd be too easy to find that way. The fact that he was Clarence in 9x03 and Steve in this episode shows that he is frequently changing his name and identity to keep himself hidden in plain sight.

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  95. I gotta say, while I agree that there's no shame in holding any sort of job, most retail/customer service professions are pretty horrible life experiences. Cleaning bathrooms and such are a part of that package, along with dealing with asshole customers and so forth, and for very little pay. So, the whole entire system is debilitating and demeaning to the individual, as it stands.


    Any honest work is preferable to nothing at all, but I can't think of anyone for whom these positions would be considered a dream job. At least the carpenters and mechanics that I know take pride in the technical skill and creativity required for their work. They genuinely enjoy what they do, even if it is labor intensive, and the pay is generally much MUCH better. In retail, unless you are a manager, you are basically just a cog in the machine, and you are treated like one, not just by inconsiderate patrons but by your superiors. Of course, Cas has literal eons of experience at that, so that may be why he doesn't mind it so much :P

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  96. Hopefully when Cas goes out for pie he won't make a mess, like he did the last time trying to make things right with Dean. Love the attendant at the market he kept saying Dude. LOL :D

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  97. Yes, the show has squandered many an opportunity when it comes to Sam and Castiel. As you said, if they wanted me to buy into this idea that those two had a friendship, they would have spent some time developing that relationship - separate and apart from Dean.



    They never have, which is why I don't consider the two friends. They are allies at best.

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  98. Yeah, it's a waste of breath, isn't, it but sometimes reading this sort of stuff so annoys me that I have to answer. :(

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  99. This reflects the show's early blue collar beginnings to the move up the socio-economic ladder we've seen in the past few seasons. The boys used to pose more as cops, forest rangers and the like. Now they are nearly always FBI agents in tailored suits. The used to frequent bars, factories, and working class neighborhoods. These days, it's corporate offices and McMansions. Just as the dark, gritty filming style of a horror movie has given way to the over-saturated colors of Schmacher era Batman.

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  100. No kidding. It always baffled the crap out of me when people so vehemently insist that Castiel and Sam are friends. Or are even remotely as close as he and Dean are. Same goes for Charlie. I've no idea if she treated him like he mattered in the Wizard of Oz ep, I boycotted out of dislike of her and not wanting to see WOO messed with by SPN's writers. I don't think I've ever seen them alone in a scene. If they are, I doubt it's deep bonding discussion like Dean has with them. There's potential to make both of those characters more tolerable for me if they'd give them an equal footing with Sam in the group dynamics. I don't even feel Kevin's as fleshed out as a relationship with Sam. They were working Crowley together and even then it didn't feel as though they were a team. And I really dig Kevin.

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  101. I've said similar stuff before. No one else sees it this way.

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