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Supernatural – 9.07 – Bad Boys – Review

Nov 21, 2013

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Bad Boys brought us to the Catskills, New York, to a reform school for boys where Dean spent two months when he was 16 after getting in trouble with the law. The episode combined Dean’s flashbacks with a current-day ghost hunt and was a return back to basics before the mytharc kicks back in before the winter break.

Just a warning – some fans love the episodes with lots of interaction between Dean and kids. I’m not one of them. I maintain that kids on Supernatural should be the Lilith or The Kids Are Alright kind, and while occasional kid-heavy episodes are OK, the writer for this episode, Adam Glass, writes far too many of them in my opinion. I’m not someone who watches the ABC Family Channel or Disney movies often, so I’m obviously not the audience for his episodes, but I realize other people have different tastes.

With that said, this episode did some things right – it was nice to see an old-fashioned ghost hunt again, the Dean flashbacks seemed to be well-integrated and true to his character, and young-Winchester episodes are usually a hit. But heavy character episodes are usually forward looking. They’re usually inserted for a reason – most often to help us understand something that ties in with a bigger storyline. Which leaves me wondering what exactly was intended by inserting an episode at this time with a message that Dean always takes care of Sam, he has sacrificed, and he has resented those sacrifices.

The portrayal of Dean and his conflicts were true to character and canon. We’ve known since season 1 that it was heavily ingrained in Dean since a young age that it’s his role to watch over Sam, and that Dean has sacrificed to do that. That point has been hammered home every season since. We’ve also seen in season 3 that Dean on a deeper, repressed level resented Sam’s relationship with John and resented what he had to give up for Sam. This episode seemed to revisit that resentment, with lines like, “The best part is when you’re done, they leave, and you’re not responsible for them anymore,” spoken about cars, but clearly about Dean’s responsibilities toward Sam and his family.

Dean dealt with these issues years ago. Why are we revisiting them now? We didn’t learn anything new in this episode. With a big bombshell brewing in the main story arc – that Dean had helped Zeke possess Sam without Sam’s knowledge or consent, and has been lying about it since – this feels like a giant set up to gloss over Dean’s responsibility in the current storyline. This episode seemed intended to send the message that whatever Dean may have done and Sam feels, it doesn’t matter because Sam OWES him. Dean owns Sam.

And this brings me to the next point, which is that since the season opener, which did a decent job in laying some groundwork for Sam’s reaction, there’s been no attempt at additional set up for what Sam’s reaction will be when it comes. In contrast, we’ve had several consecutive episodes of highlighting Dean’s perspective with Zeke, his guilt, the impossible choices he’s facing when his friends keep dying and Zeke is the only one who can save them. Now we have a whole episode showcasing more of Dean’s perspective. But where’s the groundwork for setting up the motivations for Sam’s inevitable reaction? Surely showrunner Jeremy Carver, Glass and the other writers must know by now how Sam will react. If I believed this episode would be balanced out with another episode within the next couple of weeks before we go on winter break that focused as strongly on Sam’s perspective as this one did on Dean’s, I would feel differently, but that seems unlikely. So while another character episode focused on Dean with nothing to balance it out on Sam’s end in a different season would be annoying, its placement right now and the message that seems intended is disturbing.

The Highlights

The episode starts with Dean hearing of a case from an old friend – a fatherly figure at the reform school – about a weird death. How this man, Sonny, knew Dean specializes in the weird is unclear since Sonny never got a clear understanding of the family business in the past, and Sonny brushed off Dean’s strange behavior as Dean dabbling in the occult.

Dean had spent two months at the place after he had lost the family food money playing cards and got caught shoplifting some peanut butter and bread – probably for little Sammy. While there, he had a few weeks of getting away from his abusive parent, who decided to let him rot there, met and kissed a girl, met a “good” fatherly figure who gave him the chance to stay, but sacrificed it all to be there for his little brother. Apparently, Dean was the kid who always wanted to be normal.

The Good

Honestly, my hand kept jerking toward the remote through the whole episode during my first watch in a futile effort to fast-forward (I was watching it real time as it was being broadcast), but as I said earlier, I’m not the audience for this. There were good Dean character moments, and other people obviously enjoyed it, so I’ll let them fill out more of this section in the comments.

It was nice to get back to an old-fashioned ghost hunt. While it’s nice to get some variety, sometimes it feels good to return to basics. The flashbacks felt smoothly integrated into the current-day plot, and the actor cast to play young Dean did a great job in pulling off the nuances of the character.

The Bad

Aside from the issues that I’ve already mentioned, I did not appreciate the continued bashing of John. I thought it was pretty clearly established that John’s toughness on his kids was rooted in a deep protectiveness. He knew the dangers – his family had been ripped apart by them – and he lost sight of the human element in his attempt to protect them. This story would have you believe that John would abandon Dean in a strange place because Dean was misbehaving. That John pulled Dean away the night of the dance because he “had a job to do” I believe, but not that John abandoned Dean to teach him a lesson.

There was also the convenience of blaming a detail that doesn’t make much sense – that the family would lie to Sam about where Dean was – on a dead guy who can’t explain himself (John). Problem solved!

Another nitpick was the officer leaving the handcuffs on Dean because Dean was wising-off. Leaving cuffs on when he knew he wouldn’t be returning any time soon is bordering on child abuse. There were a lot of comments after last week’s episode that the writer was unfair to convenience store workers. This in my mind is much worse. No police officer would knowingly walk away leaving a child handcuffed and hope to keep his job, even if the kid had hit him.

Other nitpicks are Sam grabbing a knife to fight what he expects to be a ghost (are knives made of iron now?), the rugaru hunt in the past when Sam and Dean were introduced to rugarus in season 4, and the age casting of Sam. I know these last two have been exhaustively discussed already in viewer comments, so I'm brushing over them here.

So what did you think of the episode? Let me know in the comments.

61 comments:

  1. I agree with everything written here (prepare for the barage of angry Dean girls btw) this would have been a decent episode in another season perhaps the first few seasons but here and now with the whole Zeke thing? Basically a set up to allow Dean off the hook for any descion making he's done this season and lets face it leaves Sam looking like the bad ungrateful brother if he doesnt agree with Dean for said descions and thank him perfusely for it. Once again its obvious the writers are trying to ensure Dean comes out smelling like roses and Sam gets all the fan abuse. Well done writers.
    Also where the hell is Sam's storyline? All he's done all season is play the plot device in Dean's emotional arc and make sure that Zeke is where he needs to be for Dean's convienince and inconvienence it would seem. There is no set up for anythign regarding Sam in the second half of the season so one has to assume he'll be mad but he'll get over it pretty quick because the brothers need to be hunting together. Zeke will eventually leave and then what?

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  2. Thank god for this review. Finally, someone highlighted the multiple bad sides of this episode. "This episode seemed intended to send the message that whatever Dean may have done and Sam feels, it doesn’t matter because Sam OWES him. Dean owns Sam." - this part is very true and it makes me both very sad and freaking enraged. Sam DOES NOT deserve such treatment from TPTB (and the fans, so to speak). He's not a plot device, ok? He's a human being.

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  3. Your review touches on most of the things that left this episode border-line for me, and I agree with just about everything.


    I liked young Dean. I think he played the character well, though I don't know where the problem with his age was, as he looked a perfect fourteen to me, and the story would have been more acceptable if Dean had been younger.


    I don't mind Dean being the story teller in SPN, he is the older brother and that's fine, but the audience has just as much curiosity and need to understand Sam and his feelings/motives.
    If the story is about two brothers on an equal footing, then we need to have both their POV's, especially as they have two different characters and see things in different ways; well, at least they did about hunting, but now it's been 'revealed' that Dean hated hunting too.

    Strange that I never got that impression before.


    Dean has had a chance at normal with Lisa but he seemed all but contented, and was more than happy to throw himself back in the fight when Sam turned up.


    Sam's reaction to those two months of Dean's absence was strange too.

    The way we saw Sam in AVSC he was a smart alert kid. I can't see him as having been so placid about his big brother being AWOL for two months.


    As for John, he definitely wasn't the best parent on the block, but I do think he loved his children, only his obssession with Mary's death led him to put more energies into that, than towards the comfort of his sons, so I agree that there has been excessive John bashing by these writers.


    In the end it all comes down to lazy writing, and a disregard or ignorance of the past evolution of the brothers' lives and emotional story-line. It's a kind of arrogance on the part of the writers to want to put their stamp on the show instead of adding to what came before


    What we saw of young Dean feelings, clashes for example, with what was said by Dean in DSOTMoon where he berated Sam for not having good memories about family, causing him to throw away the amulet which was a symbol of their bond, and now out of the blue we find out that Dean's best memories weren't all about family either. Another ret-con to add to the list.
    x

    It was lovely seeing the amulet hanging round young Dean's neck though. :)

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  4. Can I just say I thught the young Dean looked 14 not 16

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  5. Me too. Especially the first time I saw him, definitely around fourteen.

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  6. I didn't feel like this episode was saying "Dean owns Sam."


    I think this episode was trying to remind viewers of why Dean is the way he is. Over the years his dependency on Sam has been romanticized and treated as just the great brotherly bond, and of course this should be how it is. We get some lines about how he's nothing without Sam, sad music plays, isn't this touching.


    This episode showed just how much Dean had to give up, not because Sam made him, not because it's Sam's fault, but because of what their lives were, what they were forced into being.

    I don't think they're going to villainize Sam for being angry with Dean. They've shown over and over this season that possession and lack of consent are terrible. Sam should be furious. But this is a way of reminding why Dean did what he did, because otherwise, he would just look like a sociopath.


    I actually felt like the episode did tell us something new about Dean, not so much in that he was doing anything that was surprising, but in showing his vulnerability and his unease about his life, unlike previous young Dean episodes, which tried to paint him either just as Sam's big brother, or as some sort of parody who was kidding himself.


    A part of John did love his sons, but I don't believe the writing ever just said he was acting out of protectiveness. He was horrible toward Dean in season 1, belittling, distant.

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  7. The show never said those were Dean's happiest memories. Those will probably always be with Sam.

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  8. Dean refusing to lose Sam when Sam wanted to die was borderline sociopathic. He took away Sam's choice, after Sam has had a lifetime of his choices being taken. That's huge. I feel like if they didn't address this, then it would have done a huge disservice to Dean. I've heard people say what a dick he is this season, and so on. I think we needed a rationale.


    I never believed Bobby was their father figure, I try to ignore that rewrite - it just doesn't match up to the early seasons, and it makes his behavior toward them in seasons 4, 5 and 6 reprehensible. As for John, I don't think 9x07 takes away John caring. John cared in his own way. He just never really, truly cared about what Dean needed or wanted. He never told Dean he was proud of him until he knew he was going to die. He took Dean for granted. I'm not sure that he would have said "leave him to rot," but the rest reminded me of season 1 John. I don't agree with the idea that he had beaten Dean, as some feel from the bruise scenes.

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  9. You know what ultimately convinced me that Dean indeed does own Sam? Dean's decision to let Ezekiel possess Sam without as much as caring about Sam's own choice which is, by the way, clearly acknowledged by Dean ("Yeah, Sam would rather die than be possessed by anything, but hey, I need my brother so screw it"). And it's really disturbing and hurtful and so very tragic, because, hey, remember the end of season 4? "I won't let my brother turn himself into a monster", Dean said. _Dean_, who would kill and die and raise hell for his brother, was ready to let his most loved person in the world die a painful, slow and agonizing death because he made Sam a _promise_, because he gave his fucking word to keep Sam human at any damn cost, even if it meant killing his brother with his own two hands.


    And then there's season 9. And Dean says, "Sometimes you gotta do what's best for you, even if it's gonna hurt the ones you love", and he lets an angel wear his face in order to get his brother's consent, and he lets an angel search around his brother's head and poke at his crippled soul and wear his body to the prom. And when Dean says, "what's best for you", what he means is "what's worst for Sam", because there was Meg and - more importantly - there was Lucifer who tore and ripped and sliced and made Sam puke his own intestines out, and Dean _knows_, but he doesn't care.

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  10. Lack of POV for Sam has been a problem for a long time, I agree. I'm hoping we will get more when the truth is revealed. I feel like the show had to sort of show why Dean did what he did, because the violation was so extreme. I do want to see Sam's view and make sure it doesn't turn into just brother angst or "mean to Dean" or any of that. I hope the show will let us know how this hurts Sam and watch him overcoming it.

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  11. You know what ultimately convinced me that Dean indeed does own Sam? Dean's decision to let Ezekiel possess Sam without as much as caring about Sam's own choice which is, by the way, clearly acknowledged by Dean ("Yeah, Sam would rather die than be possessed by anything, but hey, I need my brother so screw it"). And it's really disturbing and hurtful and so very tragic, because, hey, remember the end of season 4? "I won't let my brother turn himself into a monster", Dean said. _Dean_, who would kill and die and raise hell for his brother, was ready to let his most loved person in the world die a painful, slow and agonizing death because he made Sam a _promise_, because he gave his word to keep Sam human at any damn cost, even if it meant killing his brother with his own two hands.

    And then there's season 9. And Dean says, "Sometimes you gotta do what's best for you, even if it's gonna hurt the ones you love", and he lets an angel wear his face in order to get his brother's consent, and he lets an angel search around his brother's head and poke at his crippled soul and wear his body to the prom. And when Dean says, "what's best for you", what he means is "what's worst for Sam", because there was Meg and - more importantly - there was Lucifer who tore and ripped and sliced and made Sam puke his own intestines out, and Dean _knows_, but he doesn't care.

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  12. I would never call Dean's actions sociopathic - not necessarily right - but I think it's clear where he's coming from. And although I think his motivations have been well presented over the seasons, I can see how a recent reminder might be a good idea for the newer, or casual viewers. But that doesn't excuse them for not putting a minimal effort into building Sam's character - especially considering what they did with it last year. But you've been critical of that too.


    It was the "leave him to rot" line that bothered me too. I believed that Dean got his bruises fighting monsters, so I didn't read abuse into it.

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  13. Thanks for commenting. At this point I've come to expect more POV to be from Dean, but there's a major problem with the level of POV they've been giving Sam. Even recurring characters like Charlie or Crowley get more, and that continues to stun me because it's so detrimental to the show. How can anyone think that's good?


    Good points about Dean's brush with "normal" with Lisa and young Sam's portrayal in AVSC. I accepted this interpretation because even in this episode, Dean seems on the surface to be in denial. That he wants more is something he's always pushed way down, and I though his emotions around hunting are more complex than any single episode has ever conveyed.


    Yes, young Sam in AVSC was only 9 years old but seemed much older than this child. He was smart beyond his years.

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  14. I think people think that because someone is abusive, it means they don't love the person they are abusing. I think it's far more complicated than that. Abusers are trying to assert control, trying to make the person they are abusing do the right thing, sometimes trying to "protect" them. There are parents who don't love their child, but abusing them doesn't mean they don't love or care for them. It just means their need to control them and their belief that what they are doing is "for their own good" supersedes that love.

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  15. Thanks for commenting. Sam shouldn't be a plot device, and by not rounding him out more, the writers are not doing the show any favors.

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  16. Thanks for the comment. I thought some people would agree. ;-) I will not be happy if when this does come out, it's brushed over quickly as far as Sam's part is concerned. I expect this to lead somewhere that has something to do with Sam too.

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  17. I too hope we get a Sam POV, but honestly I expect a lot of how MEAN Sam is to Dean and lots of why Sam should instantly forgive Dean, accompanied by Dean telling him how HARD it was for Dean. I pretty well expect Sam to be excoriated for daring to want to know what his body is doing 24 hours of every day and for not realizing that Dean does in fact own Sam and can do whatever he wants to Sam because of everything Dean has sacrificed. It's been the message for years, so I'm not real hopeful.

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  18. That Sam gets less POV than anyone else, is something I have never been able to understand.
    It's so unfair to the character and to the viewers; we want to know what Sam feels and thinks! Sometimes I get the impression that he is some inscrutable sphinx!

    In earlier seasons the brothers were on a more equal footing as far as explaining their thoughts and feelings was concerned, and everything was far better balanced and more interesting.
    X

    As for the Ezekiel affair, there are many options as to how it could go
    .
    1) It could be that Ezekiel heals Sam and leaves his body without Sam ever even knowing he was there.

    2) Maybe the angel can't manage to cure him and he has to remain inside Sam indefinitely.

    3) Maybe Zeke can't cure them both and decides to sacrifice himself to allow Sam to be cured.

    4) Or, which is probably what will happen, Sam finds out and is/is not is mad with Dean, causing more/ no angst.

    5) Then again Sam and Ezekiel together could have a function in getting rid of Megatron and allowing the angels to re-enter heaven.

    6) Zeke could cure Sam and use Castiel as a new vessel, and allow him to get his angel powers back. The writers have ret-conned the blood-line thing too it seems, so anything goes!

    7) Other- one's creativity can go wild. lol :)

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  19. Don't forget that the leave him to rot line was hearsay from a cop Dean had punched in the face. Maybe he made it sound worse than it was to rile Dean.

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  20. I don't remember the last time we got real insight into Sam's motivations for anything he's done. Last year he lost his brother and ran – that's it. Sam never gets the POV so that we can understand why he acted in a certain way. Plus, his actions are always villainized by the show, sometimes overtly and other times more subtly. For Dean the show takes pains to make sure whatever he does is shown sympathetically or for laughs (punching Sam in the head after a concussion). I don't begrudge Dean his treatment by the show. I believe, as one of the leads, he should be shown sympathetically. I just wish they would treat Sam with the same consideration.

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  21. I was really bothered by the revelation that John's
    "perfect little soldier" didn't want to go into the family business.
    Everything up until this episode indicated young Dean loved hunting and
    idolized John for being a hunter. His disillusionment didn't happen until
    later.

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  22. I love this comment. All the things I've been saying for years, from about the time they began to destroy Dean's character. He used to be my absolute FAVORITE the first three seasons .. then this continued selfish behavior where Sam's "welfare" is concerned because he can't seem to deal with the possibility Sam would want to call it quits, as he was doing in the premiere. Sam has no ownership over his own body and soul, it seems. Not that Sam hasn't done similar things with Dean in the past, but when he did try to move beyond it (and not knowing where to even begin searching) by not looking for Dean, suddenly Sam's the ultimate douchedick. I've been having serious problems with the slant of the writing the past six seasons. Bear in mind, I used to hate Sam with a passion until season four. So ... I'm not coming at this as a life long Sam girl or something. I still don't consider myself a "Sam girl", either.

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  23. I have a friend who's complained in reviews for the show since season six she realized since the beginning Sam was a plot device, not a character. Looking back on the first three seasons, which I really enjoyed, I can see she's right. I never much noticed it until around season five because I was so into Dean until mid-season four. He was the big draw of the show for me, I identified with the character so much. Once that stopped happening, I began to see things in a new, different light.

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  24. You said it, Isle! These new, or current, writers have no respect for the canon that was established BEFORE they came onto the show. If they did, they would have realized that a 9-year old Sam would have been frantic if Dean had gone missing b/c an 8-year old Sam was frantic when he learned about the supernatural in AVSC. If they cared about characterization, they would have never written that Dean "hated" hunting! I think it would have been fine if Dean had wanted to pursue other opportunities as well, but to act like the Dean we've watched for NINE years suddenly hates hunting is ridiculous. If Dean longs for normal so much, what was the big deal about Sam going to college or wanting to return to school after killing the YED in S1?

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  25. I had the same experience. It wasn't until S5 that I noticed the lack of POV for Sam. I remember the S4 complaints (I wasn't online during the first three seasons) about how Sam's story was "being told in the background," and it wasn't a problem for me then but now I can see the imbalance.

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  26. Yeah . . . I thought I read he was on a mission to cure demons, but we haven't seen anything like that. If that does happen, i guess it's in the 2nd half of the season. Maybe that's also when Castiel will decide to help his fallen brethren - another alleged story arc that hasn't come to fruition.

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  27. But I think it was supposed to be disturbing and hurtful, and show how wrong Dean is, how desperate he is. I think this episode gave a window into why. Dean was never allowed to have anything else or believe he deserved anything else.


    I don't think they're saying he owns Sam. I think they're saying he went too far and Sam has to suffer the consequences of Dean's choice.

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  28. So do I , the whole thing is ludicrous . We dont have to keep sympathizing with Dean , we should be allowed to care for the other brother too .

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  29. Definitely.
    I discovered the show at the end of season five, through DVD's, and only came on-line even later, and I remember a a good part of minutiae and canon of the past seasons, so I can't understand, if these writers have watched all of the episodes, how they can twist things that were canon before.


    The now classic exmple of the Grand Canyon to name one 'minor' thing.
    This brings me to believe they haven't watched them, or not with the attention they should have.


    Shouldn't there at least be a 'Bible' or someone charged with the continuity of the show, but it seems no-one cares!
    Carver is supposed to be show runner but I'm wondering for what show!


    The fact that SPN fans know all the ins and outs of the show should inspire the writers to be even more careful about what the write, IMO of course!
    X

    We're told Dean idolized his father and thought he was a hero. Even in 'As Time Goes By' he defends John to the hilt, while talking to Henry.

    Only afterward when John tells him he might have to kill Sam, does Dean start to question everything.

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  30. Right.

    Dean was shown to have embraced the hunting life and more than happy to kill any monsters in his sight.

    Sam was the wild card in that he began to influence Dean's mind-set by claiming that not every monster deserved to be killed; that there were shades of grey., like Lenore.
    x

    Naturally Dean could have had other aspirations and desires too and it would have been nice to learn about them but what we were shown here was a little too OOC for Dean's character as we knew it.
    x

    Then just the whole idea that John would leave his son in a home for two months is OOC for John IMO. I would have imagined John breaking in and carrying Dean off, not leaving him vulnerable to the supernatural in a 'civilian's' care.

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  31. I think Sam is written sympathetically, but they don't seem to know how to write a story for him beyond him being ill.

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  32. Everything we've seen of a young Dean, aside from comments he made to people he doesn't confide his feelings in, was from Sam's memories. This is the first time we've seen Dean at that age talking about how he felt or what he wanted. I don't think Dean was ever completely in love with hunting, and he defended John because he felt worthless otherwise.

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  33. Man after my own heart!
    I agree with everything you say and fiercly thank the higher powers for the person who understands _what_ Sam had in mind by deciding not to search for Dean in season 7 finale. It pisses me off so much when people just go on talking garbage about Sam's decision without even trying to realize exactly why that kid did what he did. Isn't it so unfair? But, well, actuallly, I kinda-sorta made tentative peace with that 'cause, from my expirience, people who don't understand Sam's intentions are usually either too young to do that or simply too narrow-minded and the ones that actually do understand don't just go hatin' and skatin' for no reason but explain themselves, like, "Sam's cool, but he's just not my type of character" and are generally nice and peaceful.

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  34. I think it came across as more of a 'Get out of jail free card' for Dean, the writers weren't saying Dean had gone to far this time they were justifying his decision in saying that he has always given up everything for Sam because he loves him so much so him wanting Sam to live and allowing Zeke to possess Sam is just another thing Dean has done for Sam. Sam cant possibly be justified in any anger or hurt he may feel about Dean's decision because he owes Dean everything.


    No where did it imply that Dean had apparently gone too far this time.


    Also you I'm not sure what you're implying with your fist paragraph?

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  35. my ideal scenario would be for Sam to discover the truth and then make a deal with Zeke. Sam will help Zeke with the heaven problem and Zeke will help Sam to cure as many demons as possible while both healing inside Sam's body. I would love to see Sam and Zeke working together going after demons while working with Crowley, working with/against angels, sorting the whole Metatron thing out, It wouldn't be Sam or Zeke but both of them using their knowledge and sharing the power. They could have Sam pop in to do the normal hunts with Dean too so the show wouldnt lose those episodes where its just Sam and Dean working on a MOTW week hunt and that way we would have just Sam sometimes too.


    The storyline has potential but the writers we all know wont write anything for Sam outside of being the researcher for team Dean.

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  36. If his arc does ever come to fruition, it'll likely overshadow any arc Sam is rumored to have, ie the demon curing mission. I kinda wish they'd let Castiel be more emotive on the show, since he's ultimately human having lost his grace. It'd be interesting for me as someone who's not liked the character much, if ever, to see him presented in a new way. Experiencing and displaying whatever feelings he's having as a full on human being. It's baffling me this aspect hasn't come up at all this season. Given how the human version of him behaved in that crappy time travel episode in season five.

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  37. Percy (or someone else) said there was a person in charge of the Supernatural "bible." I think the guy's been fired b/c there is no attention to canon or prior characterization.

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  38. They don't seem to be doing much w/anyone. They're just passing the time w/all these filler episodes. I'd love for the season to get started. . . . haha!

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  39. We can't change what has happened to Sam. He is possessed by Zeke and we're just going to have to go with that, so the idea of them working together is probably the best option.

    At least it's a little different from what we've has before and Sam would be integrated into the angel story-line that's been thrown at us this season.



    Sam would have a kind of 'secret identity' with Zeke popping out when necessary.
    x

    Whatever happens, the last thing I desire is that that Sam gets super-mad and stalks off, even although he has evert damn right to do so; but that would just repeatt he same old tired 'brother tension' again and I've had enough of that.

    x

    The brothers have declared their loyalty to one another over and over again; it's time for them to show a united front against the bad guys, which for me now are not the demons but the angels.
    However as you say, the writers will probably push Sam into the background as they have been doing for a while now, and we will get a rush of secondary characters instead. :(

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  40. I know nothing about how tv shows are run, but I would assume every show has someone in charge of continuity, though as you say, they've probably cut costs by firing him!

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  41. I think we need to be careful that both the show and the fandom doesn't negates Sam's reaction to Ezekiel. It will be alot for Sam to process because this effects him on a whole different level compared with anything before.

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  42. I still haven't gotten over the lack of explanation for Sam not looking for Dean at the beginning of season eight. It was so disrespectful to his character.

    That was a perfect occasion to give us some insight into his heart and mind.

    Everyone was waiting for an explanation which we never got, and that illustrates how OOC the whole idea was.

    Then the ridiculous mysterious person watching Amelia's house turned out to be Don; how sucky!

    x

    In Goodbye Stranger too, Sam was explaining himself to Meg about that year and Amelia, ( I still don't understand why he was being so heart to heart with Meg who had once possessed him and made him kill a man and nearly kill Jo and Dean, but anyway ) and SHE might have got to hear his reasons, but we viewers certainly didn't.

    All we got was the tail end of the conversation because we were treated to the 'important' scene of Castiel beating down on Dean instead.
    I love Dean too and I have no problem with him having his motivations and thoughts explained, but Sam has to have the same respect.

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  43. I agree.

    There is a fine line to be traced here. Dean has done something really debatable but I do get his reasons.
    x

    He had no other option at that point and he just didn't want to lose his brother, who is the reason that Dean keeps on living and breathing, but from Sam's point of view, it's an invasion of his body and mind which will be hard for him to accept.
    x

    I hope the writers can find a happy medium between Sam's rightful anger and his understanding of Dean's motives.


    Sam, although we never get to hear him talking about it, understands Dean and his need to have Sam by his side (Dean has said it often enough to him ) because I'm convinced Sam feels exactly the same way, though he expresses himself differently. If the brothers didn't need each other by their side , they would have made other choices. They are still together because that's what they want, at least for now,

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  44. I will never look at the show the same way unless they address Sam not looking with something other than "I ran." I am so outraged by that so-called explanation. It ruined last season (the very worst season for me) and continues to taint this season. Dean will sacrifice anything to save Sam, and Sam? Well... he runs. The obvious imbalance in the treatment of the two characters saddens me.

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  45. Honestly, these new writers don't care as much about the show as Kripke did. It was his show, so he really cared about the story. These new writers just want a platform to showcase their OCs and personal vision for the boys. It's apparent they do not speak to each other or confer w/each other to make sure the episodes follow each other ad are consistent.

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  46. I felt the show did an excellent job of showing why Dean made the choice he did in the premiere. I've never been upset with Dean for this decision. I completely understand it, and it is completely w/in his character to do whatever it takes to save Sam. We know this.
    I do think it is tragic that Sam has gotten ZERO perspective on what's happening to him. Is Sam feeling a sense that he's losing time? Has it worried him that he's been knocked unconsciousness a couple of times? Is he worried about his health? We know next to nothing about how Sam feels, and he's the one that's possessed. I guess we won't know anything until the big reveal, and we'll probably only get a line like, "How could you Dean" before Sam storms off into the night.
    In S7, I never understood why Sam was upset w/Dean for killing Amy. He never really gave a reason that I can recall. Was it b/c Amy was his friend? Was he upset that Dean lied to him? What? They didn't give Sam a perspective. I remember him saying, "I can't even look at you," and that was it. I would not be surprised if the same happened here.

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  47. I don't agree at all. Just look at Dean's enthusiasm for and
    obvious enjoyment of hunting in the first season. It was intrinsic to his
    personality and a counterbalance to Sam's desire to leave hunting. Now we're
    supposed to believe that, like Sam, he didn't want to go into the family
    business? I don't buy it.

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  48. I doubt it. I'm sure Sam will find out at the end of the episode like with the Amy crap in S7, and we'll get a "How could you, Dean" and that will be that!
    I was just remarking that I never really understood why Sam was upset w/killing Amy b/c he never really gave a reason. He was just upset. Dean then demanded he get over it, and he did. I fear the same will play out here. This show goes out of its way to gloss over Sam's perspective at every turn.
    I love getting Dean's POV. I love Sam too so I would like some POV for him too but the writers have confined him to the "guy things happen to." It's annoying and a bad way to write a show w/two leads!

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  49. How the writers do not see this is beyond me? Dean does everything for Sam and gives everything, but Sam just runs away or gives nothing in return.
    We all know Sam would do just as much for Dean as Dean would do for him, so I have no idea why the writers never want to show that!

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  50. I don't buy it either. It is a retcon - a bad retcon at that.
    The show was premised on two brothers - one who loved hunting and always did contrasted w/one who wanted to escape that life. If Dean had a desire for normal or wanted normal just as Sam then all his outrage at Sam leaving for college or Sam wanting to return to college after killing the YED is silly and hypocritical! It makes Dean petty and jealous. Why be angry for Sam for doing something you don't have the strength to do (i.e., leave)?
    Please. From S1 until BB, Dean has always been portrayed as "hunter." For the most part, he loves it and doesn't want to do anything else. We only have to look at the sheer joy on his face in S6 when he removed the tarp from the Impala b/c he was returning to what he loves: hunting.

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  51. There was some good writing for Sam in The Girl Next Door that points to Sam's perspective. I always thought Dabb & Loflin got a bad rap for that episode because fans were on a rampage because of how it portrayed Dean. For example, Sam's POV is spelled out in this exchange:

    SAM: Yeah, you did. Look, I see the way you look at me, Dean, like I'm a grenade and you're waiting for me to go off.
    DEAN: Sam –
    SAM : I'm not going off. Look, I might be a freak, but that's not the same as dangerous.
    DEAN: I didn't say –
    SAM: It's okay. Say it. I've spent a lot of my life trying to be normal, but come on. I'm not normal. Look at all the crap I've done, look at me now. I'm a grade-A freak. But I'm managing it. And so is Amy.
    DEAN: Is she? How?
    SAM: She works at a damn funeral home so she doesn't have to kill anyone, Dean. She's figured out how to deal.
    DEAN: Okay, well, then explain the bodies.
    SAM: She's done. Her friggin' kid was dying, Dean. Put you or me in her position, we'd probably do the same thing. Look, you don't trust her. Fine. Trust me. Dean, please.
    DEAN: Okay.
    SAM: Seriously?
    DEAN: Got to start sometime, right?



    It doesn't take a huge leap to figure out why Sam would be angry after learning that Dean was lying to him there, so the way the reconciliation played out never made sense to me. It was like they were suggesting in the Mentalists episode that Sam for the first time discovered that hunters sometimes have to kill the bad guy, so he suddenly understood why Dean had to kill Amy. The writers of that episode completely missed the point of the conflict.


    But I fear you're right in this current situation. There's plenty of history to flesh out why Sam would be upset, but if the wrong writers are assigned to the episode, we'll get a short huff from Sam about Dean lying, and then Sam will remember how much Dean has sacrificed for him (as if Sam has never sacrificed anything for Dean), and that will be all.

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  52. That episode always bothered me because Sam just stood there while Dean berated him and told him to get over it and then decides Dean was right afterall. It was OOC in my opinion.

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  53. So true. I wasn't around at the time but from the little I have learned, Kripke did love the characters and I'm sure he was proud of Jared and Jensen, their chemistry and their great interpretation of the brothers Winchester.

    It was his baby after all.


    Still, these writers are professionals and are being paid to do a job to the best of their ability. At this point however, I blame Carver.and Singer, for they are probably getting even more money to direct things and they are not doing that as well as they should.
    Carver should be keeping his writers on the right path as far as vision, continuity, the brothers' relationship and good story telling is concerned.
    x

    Soon we'll be getting more news about this so-called spin -off of SPN. I hope the writers all transfer to that and call back some of the S1-3 writers back. for the probable last season. It'll never happen, I know but one can dream!

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  54. I know. That was a punch to the gut.

    Sam would never have run off without even trying to look for Dean. It's just so impossible that it's unbelievable. Sam would have looked. He might not have managed to free Dean, and I don't care what his mind-set was at the time, he would have looked.
    x

    You used the right word, it's sad that Sam never gets the chance to show Dean how much he loves him too, but keeps getting branded as the one that always cares less. So unfair

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  55. Back In Black Tricksteress 95November 24, 2013 at 3:43 AM

    Awesome :)

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  56. The show has about lost its flavor for me. I love both brothers, at
    least the way both brothers were previously written in S1-3. I loved that
    Dean could be dickish, hell, that is what I adored most about him! I
    loved that Sam was, at times, his conscious, while Sam channeled his
    inner Dean in Episodes like The Benders or Hunted. And I HATE this
    episode so much because of the lack of care they have given to equal
    balance. In interviews, when Tom Hiddleson is questioned about Loki
    being liked more than Thor, his response was, "Thor defines Loki and who
    he is as a character. Loki would have been nothing if not for Thor."
    The same should hold true for Dean. Sam, in many ways, defines Dean, as
    in, Sam gave Dean purpose in his whole "Look After Sammy" mantra. The
    show, however, finds is necessary to call a do-over on previously
    written things. Like Dean loved hunting, that John, while not always
    the best father, LOVED his sons. He was hard, he was strict, but he
    never EVER would have said "Let him rot in jail." I call foul Show,
    Foul indeed. Almost as bad as the fact that John, who loved Mary so
    much he spent the rest of his life hunting what killed her (at the
    expense of giving his sons normal) that he ... went out, had an affair,
    and had a third son. A son who, while in hell, has never been mentioned
    again. Definitely a foul of epic proportions!

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  57. Yes it was abit hard to swallow . I just wish they could leave the established canon alone but this episode was about reaffirming a idea about Dean that he gave up x (chance for normal ) for y (Sam) because of looking out of a window .


    And so this was yet another example of Dean putting Sam first coincidentally right before Sam learns of Ezekiel and what Dean did .

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  58. I think Sam is written sympathetically on the odd occasion but not near enough for the traumas and life he has had.

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  59. Great point. Sam has had so many choices taken away from him throughout his life. I wonder if they will address that when the Zeke reveal is made.

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  60. Thanks for the comment. We're not going to agree on everything, but that's fine. ;-)

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  61. Back In Black Tricksteress 95April 8, 2014 at 6:57 AM

    I like the way you say things, regardless whether I agree or not.
    I don't mind kids although I hoped the kid would be a little Jesse here. Sometimes when the writers portray teenagers that makes me twitchy. Although the kids were good in this episode. it was cute wasn't it? :)
    Yes I knew what Dean meant by the cars but ultimately he chose Sam, both the brothers are on a equal level of brotherly love, just like you said on the owning thing.
    This episode was about the good old times with the brotherlyness I can't really see the bad in the episode although here comes the baddiness points.
    John- I know that the boys can talk about John in a negative way but also positive. I made a big speech about John a while ago that we haveto remember because of John's revenge it changed him, and it effected the boys on a deep level so that's the way things are.
    Its getting abit too realistic about the cop and at least Sam got a weapon. About the rugaru and Sam's age it dosen't bother me.
    I thought the episode was a mixture of sweet, sad and insightfulness of the past. We'll get to the main storyline I'm excited for it but patient. Everything is still rockin' on!.

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