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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - Heaven Can't Wait?

Nov 13, 2013

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137 comments:

  1. klutzy_girlNovember 13, 2013 at 3:01 AM

    I loved it! Poor Cas. And why didn't the woman come straight out and say he was going to be a baby-sitter? She didn't mention it at all. BUT OH MY GOD THE HOLDING THE BABY AND THE SINGING WAS AMAZING. I CAN'T EVEN AT THAT SCENE.

    What is Crowley up to? That was interesting at the end.



    Great episode.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Paula IreriNovember 13, 2013 at 3:03 AM

    OMG CAS AND A BABY! I loved everything about this episode :)

    ReplyDelete
  3. MarissaAONovember 13, 2013 at 3:04 AM

    EXCELLENT. I LOVED how character-centric it was. Characters explicitly being confronted with who they are and who they want to be and what they're afraid of. That's the kind of story that I live for, and I wish that SPN did episodes like this more often. A+

    ReplyDelete
  4. Divine DescentNovember 13, 2013 at 3:06 AM

    I liked it a lot. It was really, really sad, but I guess that was the point.

    ReplyDelete
  5. FredaNovember 13, 2013 at 3:09 AM

    The episode was pretty good. It was interesting Crowley wanted Kevin's blood - I am still under the impression that demons can sense angels or I could just be reading way too much into the situation. Not sure what Crowley is up to keeping the needle with Kevin's blood - trying to become more demon or more human maybe, or maybe saving blood for a spell? I don't believe that there is no cure for the angels; it just seems too final. Misha's singing voice is great!

    ReplyDelete
  6. JewelNovember 13, 2013 at 3:09 AM

    I'm sorry but I was very bored. It didn't feel like Supernatural at all. I was actually waiting for the promo just so I can be excited or interested again. No offense if you liked it but I thought it was boring.

    ReplyDelete
  7. rehabberNovember 13, 2013 at 3:25 AM

    Another super ep, Cas and the baby so sweet. Is Crowley trying to complete the transformation?

    ReplyDelete
  8. kerindaNovember 13, 2013 at 3:38 AM

    I am kind of with you there but I was hearing Pink on my CD player and watching the show at the same time but I had to stop to hear Cas sing to that baby that was the only part I really liked about the Ep but other then that I stoped trying to care anymore just hearing more lies coming from Dean mouth I just tired but OK EP ANYWAY! and WTF? was Crowley doing anyway? I like to his human side to that be kind of cool.

    ReplyDelete
  9. lala2November 13, 2013 at 4:06 AM

    I thought this episode was very slow. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it either. It wasn't awesome, I must immediately rewatch, but it wasn't so horrible that I would never watch it again.
    I thought it was a very average episode. Not much occurred IMO. At least nothing of great import. I could have sworn I read that Sam was supposed to be on a mission curing/healing demons, and that Cas was going to be helping his fallen brethren, but none of that is occurring. Is it all going to happen in the back half of the season? Why not show that throughout the entire season?
    Other than the Zeke secret, there is nothing else going on this season IMO. I'm ready for something to happen. We've had three filler episodes in a row now.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Ghost00November 13, 2013 at 4:09 AM

    does anyone know if that was one of the guys baby. I know jasen recently had a baby girl and the actor that plays cas has children.

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  11. Donna CNovember 13, 2013 at 4:10 AM

    I just watched last week's and thought it was pretty funny. Then again, I've been up since 3:30 Am because of work ... Still. There was some funny shiz in it.



    Prolly just FF through most of the solo!Cas stuff in tonight's ep. I wish I could care more about his plight, I really do.

    ReplyDelete
  12. lala2November 13, 2013 at 4:14 AM

    Oh, last week's was not bad at all. I thought it was going to be horrendous but it was better than I thought it would be. I liked it. I didn't hate this episode. It was just slightly on the boring/slow side for me.
    As you said, I wish I cared a lot more about Cas's problems but I guess I just don't. I actually like Cas but I might care more about his issues if they were being written better.

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  13. ShatteredOneNovember 13, 2013 at 4:28 AM

    Alright episode, not great, not terrible. Hopefully Cas will get better stories in the future because that was just plain boring. I don't find Abaddon interesting at all so I hope we get to see Crowley kill her in the end, or someone, but Crowley is far more interesting. Curious what he was doing with the blood there at the end.



    All in all, could've easily skipped this episode, baby sitting Cas was boring and awkward. At least we saw Kevin and Crowley. Oh and no Ezekial so that was a plus.

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  14. Peter J4November 13, 2013 at 4:53 AM

    i don't think it was one of their children.

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  15. chazzyxoNovember 13, 2013 at 5:18 AM

    One word - slow


    I tried to get into this i just couldn't i liked the bit when dean was with cas but that's it


    sorry i want an AMAZING episode's which i have not saw in a long time been good episode 1-3 didn't like 4 liked 5 and didn't like this but i want an episode like abandon all hope or the end you know AMAZING not slow..

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  16. chazzyxoNovember 13, 2013 at 5:20 AM

    first time i have voted poor :(

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  17. isleofskyeNovember 13, 2013 at 6:39 AM

    Boring, bad, useless, filler episode.
    X

    The only chemistry on the SPN is that between Sam and Dean. It's what's kept the show alive for all this time; the Winchesters' 'I'll sell my soul for you ' intense brotherly bond.

    Take that away and the show turns into an uninspiring sit-com, where the characters run around with nothing to do like headless chickens.
    x

    I get that the main actors want more time off, and I believe that they are destined to be separated in many of the upcoming episodes, but the show was built around 'Sam and Dean' and there's no way these secondary characters can carry an episode on their own. The J's want more time off, fine, but at least give us exciting stuff together in the time they do get in the episodes!
    X

    The human Castiel story in just plain boring.and Collins just doesn't have enough charisma to carry an episode. I still maintain they should have either gotten rid of him ages ago, or turned him into the big bad.

    He could have become a Moriarty to the Winchesters' Sherlock. A battle of wits between them and Castiel would have been much more powerful and interesting than this domestic/ becoming human nonsense.
    X

    The first two or three eps were good and promised more, but if this is what we're going to get for the rest of the season, poor SPN.

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  18. Peter J4November 13, 2013 at 6:50 AM

    I don't see how the scenes with Cas were more "fanservice" than anything else in the episode.

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  19. Peter J4November 13, 2013 at 6:51 AM

    I thought Abandon All Hope was fairly slow.


    I do wish episodes had brisker pacing, but it seems like they lost that around season 4.

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  20. MarieNovember 13, 2013 at 7:00 AM

    So intrigued with Crowley and the blood at the end!

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  21. Peter J4November 13, 2013 at 7:19 AM

    "I get that the main actors want more time off, and I believe that they are destined to be separated in many of the upcoming episodes"


    Was that said somewhere?


    I don't think they are ever separated very often for a majority of episodes. There are usually one or two a season where they're in bubbles, but that's as far as it tends to go.

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  22. JoNovember 13, 2013 at 7:34 AM

    I was just sad the whole time. I want Castiel to not be alone anymore

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  23. isleofskyeNovember 13, 2013 at 7:38 AM

    Logic dictates that if the actors are going to get more time off, then their screen time together is going to be reduced.
    x
    That's the purpose of these sec characters, to give Sam and Dean a partner while one of the actors is off.
    If you watch carefully, the moments both actors are actually together in a scene is always less.
    X
    As for them being separated, I read somewhere that after the Ezekiel reveal, they would be for a few eps.

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  24. Peter J4November 13, 2013 at 7:53 AM

    Thanks for the info.


    I remember Singer saying they only had a short Purgatory arc because they knew fans wouldn't accept Dean and Sam separated for very long. I guess with both guys having very small kids, and Jared with another on the way, that might not be true now, but I'll still be somewhat surprised if they change up the usual pattern.

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  25. tvmonkeyNovember 13, 2013 at 8:12 AM

    Please writers have Cas and Dean ride of into the big gay sunset and give me my fucking show back! This soap opera is a bore fest.

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  26. chazzyxoNovember 13, 2013 at 8:33 AM

    Nah i loved it but i guess we all love different things , i didn't like s4 at all lol i thought s5 was the best

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  27. sharonallyNovember 13, 2013 at 9:23 AM

    The only one is Jared getting time off and not because he asked for it. Jensen who ironically is the new father is not or at least not 5 days and filming for 2. So I do not really put much store by the whole fan speculation of wanting time off. They started to do Sam lite episodes in season 4 and children had nothing to do with it.

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  28. lala2November 13, 2013 at 11:03 AM

    I also read that they will be separated for the next several episodes and then the big separation after the Zeke reveal.
    I agree w/Isle. I'm an old school fan who watches for the brothers. The secondary characters are just that: secondary to the Winchesters. I get that the actors want more time off, but the writers have got to come up w/more creative ways to achieve this. This human story of Cas's is simply not cutting it.
    I would have been more interested if Cas was actually doing something interesting.

    ReplyDelete
  29. lala2November 13, 2013 at 11:06 AM

    I found AAH to be odd. Nothing was happening up until that episode, and then suddenly, it was "all action." Weird. And strangely, the episode, itself, was also sort of slow.

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  30. Peter J4November 13, 2013 at 11:20 AM

    I actually thought this episode was interesting for Cas, because it was clearly going somewhere. He isn't going to be happy just stocking shelves. He was already unsure by the end of the episode. I felt like it was the setup that weird "I'm No Angel" should have been.


    The material is there if they want to have an episode without a lot of Sam and Dean - Cas, Jody, Kevin, etc. could help carry an episode. I'm just not sure if the show would do that.

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  31. Peter J4November 13, 2013 at 11:38 AM

    This was better than I thought it would be. A few parts dragged, but I appreciated the darker tone of the episode (they opened with someone nearly killing themselves, and later with a teenage girl being murdered). I haven't really seen this on the show in quite a few years.


    Ephraim was a very interesting character, as he truly believed he was good. They should have done more with him.


    For an episode which wasn't really advertised as pushing story along, I thought Cas' story advanced nicely, which also advances the angel plot, since he's integral to it. Crowley's story is also finally starting to move along. And Dean got a break from worrying about Ezekiel and watching his loved ones die. We saw another side of Dean here, and saw him sacrificing what made him happy, again, only this time for what he thought would help Cas (which likely isn't the case).


    As someone who wanted a friendship or mentor relationship between Sam and Kevin, I was pleased and surprised to see them having actual conversations here, and being equals.


    I felt like Abaddon was a little forced here, but Crowley's gone from strength to strength this season, and the scene at the end fascinated me, as he may finally be moving into an area beyond snark and tantrums.


    One of my favorite episodes this season.

    ReplyDelete
  32. isleofskyeNovember 13, 2013 at 11:49 AM

    It could be as you say.

    One would have to actually see the actors' contracts to understand if this 'asking for time off' is true or not.
    X

    As for Jared, I have said more than once that I don't understand why having two talented, charismatic and handsome leads, one of them has to be relagated to being strangled, knocked out, locked up or taken out of the scene when Dean has interactions with particular characters.
    x

    I love Dean too, but I have to say that Sam is the most mysterious of the two brothers and for this exerts a great fascination. The character of Sam has still so much to be explored, but there's no hope of that ever happeneing now. Not with these writers anyway.
    x

    That's what's so great about the first three seasons, the brothers were treated equally. They were a team, fought side by side, rescued each other, did just about everything together. No surprise that the best episodes of the show are all in those first three seasons!

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  33. lala2November 13, 2013 at 11:54 AM

    I guess you're right. Cas did question if he should be doing something else, but it was all carried out in such a slow manner. I liked the previous Cas episode better than this one. I thought that was a good episode whereas I found this one to be just "okay."

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  34. Back In Black Tricksteress 95November 13, 2013 at 12:02 PM

    Awesome :)

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  35. Back In Black Tricksteress 95November 13, 2013 at 12:03 PM

    I have to say the Cas scenes were like beautiful. Ooh Crowley might be on a bender or something, maybe he likes being humane.

    ReplyDelete
  36. rehabberNovember 13, 2013 at 12:08 PM

    I agree with you, mostly. Would not rate it one of my favorites for the season, but it was very good and it goes in my plus list. So far I have only had one minus for the year. ;)

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  37. hlnkidNovember 13, 2013 at 12:15 PM

    I gave it an OK, my first so-so ep of the season. The Crowley storyline was excellent! Unfortunately, I found the Dean-Cas storyline a bit boring. I appreciate the the ep moved the angel storyline forward a bit and we saw how one of the fallen angels reacted to his first time on earth, but just an eh for me. I did have fun with the irony of Cas' 'lullaby' being the theme from the Greatest American Hero. Shot-out to all us 80's kids. LOL!

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  38. RossNovember 13, 2013 at 12:42 PM

    I enjoyed Dean's dating advice, and the Crowley scenes. Other than that, I think I could have pretty much fallen asleep and it wouldn't have mattered.

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  39. sdwhiskeyNovember 13, 2013 at 1:56 PM

    I liked it, although there was a bit too much solo Cas for my taste. He should have accompanied Dean on some of his case work IMO because human Cas is kind of boring. The babysitting scene went on far too long as well. But I did like the Dean and Cas scenes we got. Dean saying he was sorry about kicking Cas out of the bunker was nice. He's obviously feeling guilty about Cas but of course Sam comes first.



    Okay so why was Crowley injecting himself with Kevin's blood there at the end? And why in the world did Sam set those syringes so close to him so that he could steal one? And why in the world did Sam allow him to keep it??!! C'mon Sam! But I am very interested in what Crowley is doing.



    Obviously Crowley was lying about Metatron's spell being irreversible, right?


    Oh, and bonus Abaddon is always nice!

    ReplyDelete
  40. DaveNovember 13, 2013 at 2:34 PM

    How? When almost EVERY season gives Sam the main story?
    EVERY season except for 3 and 7, Sam got ALL the main storylines. How that's "Sam Lite" is beyond me.
    I don't like this season at all so far, because of what they've done to Dean's character, but honestly, it seems like some of you are unhappy simply because, for once, Sam is not getting all of the attention and you just can't stand it.
    I Iove Sam too, but Dean has always been pushed to the sidelines in favor of Sam. And Dean's story this season isn't even a story, he's been destroyed by these writers. Sam STILL has the better story so I don't get why any Sam fan should be pissed.

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  41. DaveNovember 13, 2013 at 2:37 PM

    And what show is that, the SAM Show? Because if you get rid of Dean, it won't be Supernatural.
    I swear, Deanhaters.

    ReplyDelete
  42. JewelNovember 13, 2013 at 4:35 PM

    Uhhh when did they mention they wanted Dean out of the picture or that they hated Dean? The Cas and Dean show is boring.

    ReplyDelete
  43. rehabberNovember 13, 2013 at 4:52 PM

    Well I am also a fan of SPN and DON'T think Cas and Dean are boring.

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  44. kerindaNovember 14, 2013 at 12:04 AM

    REALLY? the next 2 F-ing Ep is all about Dean not a damn thing about Sam and I getting sick of it PLEASE!

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  45. kerindaNovember 14, 2013 at 12:12 AM

    Crowley want to be cured HELLO! make him more human OK! And you really liked that Dean keeps lying to Cas why he could not be in the bunker OK! OHH I so can't wait when Cas finds out too poor Dean will have no friends anymore.

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  46. roxiNovember 14, 2013 at 12:17 AM

    Since you hate him so much, that should make you happy.
    I HATE what they have done and are continuing to do to Dean's character.

    ReplyDelete
  47. roxiNovember 14, 2013 at 12:20 AM

    Can you read? She/he DID say they wanted Dean to ride off into the sunset with Cas. That would mean Dean would be gone.
    I have read this person's comments before. They do indeed hate Dean.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Donna CNovember 14, 2013 at 2:41 AM

    It always amazes me how different fans see the focus of this series differently. Dean girls swear Sam has the focus and Sam girls vice versa. Either somebody's wrong or neither of these guys are the focus of their own show. I'm not even sure who I consider myself the bigger fan of anymore. They're writing both characters pretty stupidly. Sam should've clued in a long time ago, esp. after being SLASHED ACROSS HIS THROAT last week and almost eaten because Alistair of Dragon Age wanted to possess Zeke's power, that something is not right in the state of Denmark. Dean's not exactly being stealthy with the excuses about time loss and whatnot. Then I don't know what in the hell they did to Dean the past few seasons. I really don't.

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  49. kerindaNovember 14, 2013 at 3:03 AM

    REALLY? man what show are YOU watching? who is was the one in season 3 trying to save from hell? who anyone who? in S4 who was the one at was going to save the Angels by trying to stop braking the seals and by coming out of hell broke one of them by the way who was that? and in s6 who was the one who got a girl and a kid and a apple pie life and never got yelled at for it but in s8 someone else tried and got yelled at for it who was that? who is the one we know who likes Pie? or can talk about his feeling to someone else I like to know who that is? can someone tell me what kind of food Sam likes or is he talking about his feeling really to anybody can someone tell what Eps that is I just want to know. Oh and the worst is who is the one that gets all the friends like a vampire and angels who was that? And the other one is alone with No friends so sad if he tried they end up dead tell me that ok. sorry! I just wanted to know?

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  50. kerindaNovember 14, 2013 at 3:10 AM

    it just really suck where are the Eps about both of them like in season 1 and 2 I miss those they try to give half eps to one and half to the other one but it does not work anymore because one group will bitch and say the other one sucks and the other group bitch about it too no one wins.

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  51. kerindaNovember 14, 2013 at 3:19 AM

    making him a lie to Sam and Cas again wow sorry I guess its the writer doing that again TOOO BAD!

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  52. CyanaTNovember 14, 2013 at 4:38 AM

    Yes, it's neither Cas nor Sam's fault that Dean lies to them both and the *excuse* Dean lies to them for their own good and the "greater good" only works for me if it's applied consistently to Sam and Cas "lies/misdeeds" - which it isn't IMO.

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  53. CyanaTNovember 14, 2013 at 4:40 AM

    tvmonkey was being sarcastic.

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  54. SPN FickleNovember 14, 2013 at 6:30 AM

    The very first time!?! Before season four things used to be pretty balanced... There were definitely more Dean centric episodes, but Sam had the Myth Arc and Dean had the Hunting.Family Arc. But, in season four when they brought Dean more fully into the Myth Arc, Sam's story was put into the background, first to give show time to get Dean out of Hell and to introduce the angel.heaven Arc, then they kept Sam in the background to keep his story a mystery. So yes, like Season 6, Season 4 had what is up with Sam as a big question for the season... But who do they focus on during times like that, who does the digging, emoting, fighting? Dean does. In season four, every time we had an angel episode, Sam was nearly invisible... Then we also had Dean gems like In the Beginning where Sam literally was invisible. Where is Sam's In the Beginning episode? Where is Sam's The End? Heck, even way back in Season two, Dean's episodes were nearly always more Dean centric than the Sam episodes were Sam centric...

    What I mean by that last statement is that in a Dean centric episode, like What Is and What Should Never Be (the first Djinn episode), besides all of Jensen's screen time and wonderful acting, look at what we learned about Dean. We get a peek into what his fondest dream would be. We see his self esteem issues, we see his enjoyment at everyone else's happiness... He is willing to give up everything just for His family to be happy... Then, he makes the ultimate sacrifice (stabbing himself) to return to a world that is real... The real Sam hardly makes an appearance in the episode at all and when he does, he has to be saved (again) by a half dead Dean.

    Compare that to All Hell Breaks Loose I. Dean is actively hunting with Bobby to find Sam while Sam is stuck in Frontier Town fighting for his life, but what do we really find out about Sam? We find out that the Demon fed him blood and that he won't kill a human that tried to kill him, but not much else. We find out things about the Myth Arc, but we don't really find out about Sam from Sam like we did when we got in Dean's head.

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  55. SPN FickleNovember 14, 2013 at 6:48 AM

    That is amazing to me that people can see Sam as the "focus" just because his story can be summed up with a one liner. Sam's story is often told by others while Dean lives and tells his own story. that is quite a difference in my book. When Sam was soulless, Death and Castiel warned Dean about Sam's soul being shredded by the angels... Again and again he was warned, but Sam was pretty clueless. Yes, that story was about Sam, but Sam was oblivious. Dean was living that story more than Sam was. I remember having an argument with another fan because she actually wanted long, heartfelt speeches between Sam and Bobby or other characters about Dean. She thought she would be happier with an episode that had Dean as the focus, but he was always offscreen, oblivious to the situation... She thought that would make her happy. Believe me, as a Sam fan, I can honestly say that there is no satisfaction in half a season of What's wrong with Sam when I can't see Sam dealing with it.

    I was excited over a couple of two minute scenes in the Oz episode because Sam had a conversation with Charlie and Dorothy on his own. We also saw his bedroom for the first time. Sam is usually not "allowed" to talk to a non-demon character... Especially if he is going to share any type of insight into himself.

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  56. kerindaNovember 14, 2013 at 8:20 AM

    you are so right! its like this and other seasons too we have no understanding about how Sam is feeling right now the I am Fine thing is not working for me anymore when even in Ep 2 we got Dean saying his feeling out there but everytime we think Sam is going to say anything it does not happen like even in the OZ I was hearing he was going to open up to Dorothy but I got not a damn thing what happen? these writers keep doing this to the Sam fans for years and are we getting alitte fed-up with it.

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  57. kerindaNovember 14, 2013 at 8:24 AM

    you are so true on that on too. thank you for that!

    ReplyDelete
  58. kerindaNovember 14, 2013 at 8:36 AM

    I just think there going to do what they do over and over again is that if and when Sam and Cas finds out yes they are going to get mad but then as fast as 1 Ep all is forgiving please! they done if before and they do it again. And it makes me more sick to hear what Dean said in the end if season 8 about all the trust crap and all that to get Sam to stop and him lie to Sam's face about have Zek in him it just sicked me.

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  59. isleofskyeNovember 14, 2013 at 9:54 AM

    The story of the brothers has always been narrated through Dean and I'm fine with that.

    He is the big brother and it's logical that he gets to be one to lead.

    Sam is the little brother who has had this demon-blood destiny laid on his shoulders, and is the enigmatic element as opposed to Dean's practicallity. Two sides of the same coin.
    x

    A powerful and unbreakble brotherly love links them and it goes both ways as shown by Dean selling his soul for his brother, the only one he has ever considered doing it for, and for Sam''s heart-felt words when he tells Dean that "There's NOTHING I wouldn't do for you".
    x

    This is the quintessence of the Winchester brothers.
    This is why I fell in love with them and their story from the first time I saw the pilot.
    x

    All the rest is debatable ( who gets more or less story arc, etc.) depending on the point of view of the commentator, but not even these bad writers can ruin my wonderful memories of the early seasons.

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  60. roxiNovember 14, 2013 at 12:39 PM

    Season 4 Sam was on the background? Seriously? No, Dean's story was basically a side story while Sam's Ruby and Demon blood addiction was MUCH more prominent. When the heck is Sam EVER invisible? Season 3 was the ONLY one that was balanced. Sam has ALWAYS been give the main story while all Dean is ever given is existing for him.

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  61. roxiNovember 14, 2013 at 12:52 PM

    Dean has exactly ONE friend. And NOBODY was mad at Sam for wanting a normal life with a girlfriend, but for the shitty way he treated Dean, not bothering to even figure out what happened to him, whether or not he was alive, lukewarm reception to finding him alive , threatening to abandon him for for daring to be hurt by the lousy way he was being treated, letting an unstable man knock him out and handcuff him to a radiator. Sam got a free pass for all of that, while Dean had to apologize for a douchebag text. The way Sam treated Dean was FAR WORSE, yet he wasn't mad to apologize or even feel a shred of remorse.
    I'm so tired of this bogus"Dean has friends" crap, when he only has ONE friend, Cas. The only other friend he EVER had he had to kill to save Sam. And ALL of Sam's stories have been given greater importance than Dean's, from the angels to the Apocalypse to the trials, EVERYTHING.
    So now, the sole attention is not on Sam, and you all go crazy. It doesn't even matter because Dean's story STILL sucks, his only worth is STILL looking after Sam, he STILL has NO worth at all save for existing for Sam.
    And on top of all that, these writers have destroyed Dean.

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  62. roxiNovember 14, 2013 at 12:54 PM

    What story does Dean have that's his own? His ENTIRE existance is about Sam!

    ReplyDelete
  63. roxiNovember 14, 2013 at 12:58 PM

    What do you call all the complaining Sam did in the first season to Meg about Dean? What do you call all Sam's talk about how he resented how John brought them up? Or his confiding to Ruby? Or even to Meg last season? So that's not him talking about his feelings? That's not insight?
    Some Samfans have selective memory.

    ReplyDelete
  64. roxiNovember 14, 2013 at 1:00 PM

    Oh yeah, like Sam has NEVER lied to Dean!

    ReplyDelete
  65. roxiNovember 14, 2013 at 1:06 PM

    This site has a wide reputation as being a heavily Sam biased, Dean hating site. I should expect the lousy treatment Dean gets here.
    NOBODY said that Dean should get a free pass for spinning all these lies. The big difference is that Dean's lies, however much I hate them, are not about HIM. Sam and Cas BOTH spun lies for their own benefit. Dean's is doing it for Sam's benefit. As always, Dean isn't giving a damn about HIMSELF,

    ReplyDelete
  66. rehabberNovember 14, 2013 at 1:08 PM

    Well Dean did not break the seal by "coming" out of hell but by breaking while in hell. The difference between Sam and Dean in season 5 & 8 was that Dean was trying to find a way to get Sam out of the cage. When Dean asked Sam if he had looked for him, Sam did not answer. And since they never said if he did look, I am guessing he did not which ruined season 8 for me..SAM WOULD HAVE LOOKED. Did not have to save Dean, but should have at least looked and that would have been all I needed.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Kaye237November 14, 2013 at 4:04 PM

    ''Crowley want to be cured HELLO!''

    You're forgetting that to be cured, the blood needs to be ''purify'' by confession. Sam's blood is, Kevin's blood isn't and he was injecting himself with Kev's blood.

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  68. LittleDreamerNovember 14, 2013 at 4:52 PM

    A rather slow episode. I've always liked Castiel but I was bored by him in this episode.

    ReplyDelete
  69. chazzyxoNovember 14, 2013 at 6:49 PM

    Yep hope next week's is better

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  70. CyanaTNovember 14, 2013 at 7:03 PM

    "As always, Dean isn't giving a damn about HIMSELF,"

    And Dean is a master at playing the long-suffering martyr card, which is an unlikeable character flaw - it's his form of the deadly sin of pride.

    As I've already said several times before I don't disagree with what Dean did to save Sam, but that he did to essentially force Sam to live when Coma!Sam was quite clear that Sam was ready to die with a clear conscience and RealDean knew this.

    But like Dean selling his soul to save Sam in S2 what Dean did in the S9 premiere was an essentially very selfish act ("There ain't no me, if there ain't no you" * ). Dean admits he saves Sam because he needs him to be alive, that's where HE clearly does 'give a damn' about HIMSELF) which Sam is supposed to be eternally grateful to Dean for; Sam is again stuck between a 'rock and hard place' himself - there's no reasonable way for Sam to complain about Dean's DECISION without looking like an ungrateful DBag because Dean decided to once again play god and not let the "natural order" play out as it should have.
    * It was Zeke was saying those words but they were Dean's emotions.

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  71. CyanaTNovember 14, 2013 at 7:12 PM

    "RealSam" has not made a practice of (major) lying to Dean since S4 and Sam thought he was doing the right thing then, too, for the greater good.

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  72. CyanaTNovember 14, 2013 at 7:58 PM

    I agree - what the boys said in Sacrifice makes this 'Dean lies to Sam (and Cas) again, makes this issue harder, but I suspect that's what Carver/Singer want us to think "Oh, no, one of the brothers is lying to other again" .It's a recurring theme on this show and it wouldn't be - in my mind - "Supernatural" without the boys doing foolish things to save each other and then lying their teeth because they think it's for the other's own good.
    What bothers me more is "historically" Sam is 'canonically' supposed to forgive and forget Dean's (or Cas's) lies or deeds that affect him (or his trust as you suggested) in any way within an episode or two max, because he's Sam and it's not "in character" for him to be angry or hold grudges for more than that period. And Sam's 'ready forgiveness' is an admirable character trait and I would expect Sam to be mad at Dean but not overly long.
    I'm just once again concerned that some fans may - *not may* - ARE calling - Sam a 'selfish brat' preemptively for getting righteously angry at what Dean did to him to 'make him live' - unknowingly hosting an angel is not like getting a pacemaker implanted to help your heart work more efficiently. I'm worried that the writers won't give Sam adequate time within episodes and empathy to process what Dean did.

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  73. LubbeelouNovember 14, 2013 at 10:14 PM

    I wonder if Crowley wanting Kevin's blood has anything to do with Sam & Zeke? Although I don't know if Crowley knows about that. It was quite a slow episode but I liked it and I was so happy to see Cas again!

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  74. SPN FickleNovember 15, 2013 at 12:11 AM

    4x01 Sam doesn't even show up for the first half of the episode. We know exactly what day Dean got out of Hell, we saw him emerge, we saw his reaction to the devastation, we saw his thirst, we saw the garage shatter at the approach of "something". We followed Dean to Bobby's, we saw everything. We had to wait until episode 9 to find out anything about what Sam went through and that episode was split with Anna and Dean, THE Dean. Then, we had Alistair thrown in and more information about Dean in Hell. To top it off, the very next episode was Another Dean heavy episode... That was in addition to Lazarus Rising, In the Beginning (that Sam was only in for about 40 seconds and he said just 1 word, "Definitely"), Monster Movie where Dean opened up to the waitress about his "near death experience" and Yellow Fever where we found out more about Dean's time in Hell. That isn't even mentioning all of his Castiel time. Nearly every time we saw an angel, and we saw them a lot, Dean was right there.

    Heck, just take a look at On the Head of a Pin. They actually let us see Torturer!Dean. That was so difficult on Dean and we got to live it with him every step of the way. Sam has three good scenes in that whole episode and he is in it for less than 10 minutes. Dean May exist for his friends and family, but we know nearly everything about him. Things happen to Sam, but he seldom is allowed to participate in what we see.

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  75. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 12:22 AM

    The difference is, you'll give Sam a free pass for it while crucifying Dean.
    For the record, my issue is pretty much only that to me, Sam has always gotten the lion's share of importance and storyline focus while Dean is always relegated to playing support for him, and has NO story arc of his own, only existing solely for Sam. But I love Sam too.
    And also, I DO believe that Dean violated Sam's free will and took his choice away. What Dean did was WRONG. I in no way dispute this. What I dispute is Deanhaters claim that he did it because he's this selfish horrible bastard. No, he did it because he loves Sam. But he acted on impulse, like he always does, without thinking, and behaved irrationally and illogically. It's Dean's biggest personality flaw. And despite the fact that I believe he did it out of love, it was STILL WRONG.Sam CLEARLY wanted to die and be at peace.
    This may be the only thing we agree on.
    Also, hated the way Dean is currently being written as a smug dick who is treating his best friend like garbage while mocking his current living situation. This is NOT the Dean I know and love, any more than the jerk Sam was last season was the Sam I know and love.
    I believe, from all evidence I've ever seen, that Dean is SPN PTB least favorite character, and now they've found a way to destroy him.

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  76. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 12:34 AM

    You're talking about a few episodes. I'm talking about WHOLE story arcs that really matter to the season long main arc, and those have ALWAYS gone to Sam.
    Anything Dean did in seasons 4 and 5 in the end didn't make one shred of difference, as he was kept locked up in a room while Sam went off with Ruby, And season 5? We were led to believe Dean would play a major role in defeating lucifer, but that was soon overtaken by Sam being Lucifer's true vessel. The Colt didn't work on Lucifer, making Dean loom silly, then he denied Michael, then Zach, Michael, Bobby, Cas, and Death himself told Dean how unimportant he was, only Sam could defeat Lucifer and save the world, and Dean should just get the hell out of his way. In the end, Sam, alone,was the big hero. Dean's whole arc turned out to mean exactly nothing. Sam alone stopped the Apocalypse.
    The only seasons where Sam and Dean had equal importance and story arcs was seasons 3, where they both had a strong arc, and season 7, where neither of them had an arc.to speak of.
    I love Sam. I don't want him gone or subjugated. I just want equality for BOTH brothers. I have NEVER seen that and now, Jeremy Carver has so destroyed Dean's character that I don't think he can ever come back from it. Even Sam was able to more than make up for freeing Lucifer by jumping into the cage and stopping the Apocalypse. But I don't see how Dean's ever gonna be able to make up for violating Sam's free will, no matter how much I believe he did it out of love. He's ruined for good I fear.

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  77. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 12:38 AM

    So I guess we just ignore the fact that Dean willingly chose to die and SUFFER IN HELL for what he thought would be eternity to save Sam. That doesn't matter at all right? Yep, it was all selfish, sure.

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  78. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 12:44 AM

    You're wrong about this.
    Last season, Sam left Dean to rot or possible die for all he knew while not lifting a finger to even try to figure out what happened to him.But when Dean was very justifiably hurt by what Sam did( or didn't do) and by the shitty way Sam was acting towards him, both Sam AND the show insinuated and acted as if Dean was an asshole for daring to be hurt when he had EVERY right to be hurt. Sam not only wasn't sorry at all, but threatened to abandon Dean again if he didn't get past it. At the same time, SPN made Dean apologize for the text and then tell Sam to go ahead and leave, go with Amelia. SPN totally gave Sam a free pass.

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  79. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 12:45 AM

    but that was in the 1st season HELLO! and really he confiding Ruby all I seen was the sex that's it when did ever brake down and cryed because Dean was gone like Dean did about hell wow remember that what great times that was. and with Mag last I did not see that did they cut away to Dean Crying to Cas about we are family that's all I see there WOW Dean fans WoW!

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  80. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 12:51 AM

    the whole part in season 4 when he got out of hell OH how about season 3 the whole damn season trying to save him from going to hell did that work out right? No moving on season 6 with that girl and Ben that was good time they did half a season with that. So he has his own story too.

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  81. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 12:57 AM

    Also, in season 4, Dean kept trying hard to get Sam to go with him and not Ruby, Dean was willing to let forgive Sam everything just as long as he went with him. But Sam not only chose his demon lover over his own brother, he nearly choked Dean to death. And still, STILL, Bobby mocked Dean 'BOO HOO PRINCESS" and told him he must continue to grovel at Sam's feet even after ALL of that. And Dean would have, if Cas hadn't stopped him.
    And as much as I loved Sam's heartfelt speech in the season 8 finale, once again, it was DEAN who apologized. Sam's words were moving, but it also sounded like he was blaming Dean for daring to have trust issues with him, when it was Sam's own actions that caused the issues in the first place. Nowhere in there did Sam apologize for a single thing.
    So I don't get where you think SPN sets Sam up to be the apologetic one.

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  82. rehabberNovember 15, 2013 at 1:00 AM

    I wanted Dean to tell Sam, Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Dean was still apologizing in the finale..made me want to throw up. I did not like Sam last year, he was like a spoiled brat going to take his bat and ball and go home. He is back to being a Winchester this year and I love it.

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  83. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 1:02 AM

    come on you forgot benny and the girl you remember last season that vampire Ep come on Oh and do not forget Charlie come on how can you forget her was it him that went in to her dreams and found out about her mother. and the other thing get over it please thank you I know it sucked but did you want a season 4 redo having Sam go dark side trying to find Dean and going nowere with it again? I still blame the writer for that and what dean did with the text well do you remember what happen to jess remember HE MADE HIM THINK THAT GIRL WAS HURT OR DIED!

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  84. Boris BreyninNovember 15, 2013 at 1:03 AM

    Since Kevin is the Prophet doesn't that mean his blood is special? lol

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  85. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 1:05 AM

    and you need to really blame the writer for that they F-ed him up badly with that and it did piss me off to but hey I got over it they are now F-ing up Dean with the lying thing so.

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  86. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 1:12 AM

    Hey and thats what I want too Equality for both but not really getting that is hard right now because I hear the next 2 Eps are all about Dean again I think we will get the truth out untell ep 9 in Dec and damn that's a wait.

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  87. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 1:25 AM

    hmmm less see now ok season 2 it was dean who keeped lying to Sam about what Dad said Right! Oh and that Sam died at the end Sam had to find out on his own sad! I do not know in season 3 but the whole DB on season 2 did not come back untell season 4 I think Sam was just scared of what dean would say or do and his fears was right dean went of the deep end with it. season 4 they both did there share of lying ok I get that. season 5 did we see anything ok now here is when it get fun in season 6 now Sam did lie about being alive but he wanted dean to have the apple pie life thing ok but for Dean to lie to Sam once he got his soul back was pretty bad and season 7 the AMY THING WOW HOW BAD WAS THAT! and season 8 BENNY! I think he should have told Sam about him in the 1st Ep but no. so there you have it.

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  88. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 1:29 AM

    it is not anymore he did not finish the 3 thing he had to do so no. And now there could be other blood in there now think about it zek is in there that could be something if Crowley found that out.

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  89. rehabberNovember 15, 2013 at 1:32 AM

    Again perfect comment..you are channeling my thoughts. lol

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  90. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 1:35 AM

    And that really sucks too I love that Dean did what he did don't get me wrong I yelling to Save him Dean please but the lying is what I cant stand for when that whole thing dean said about trusting and stuff in season 8 gets really bad again that is what I do not like right now.

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  91. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 1:39 AM

    Me too but why is it that Sam can forgive so fast and that Dean has not and Keep bring it up over and over again OH you did not look for me come on and the fans they do that too I tired of that.

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  92. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 1:41 AM

    WHAT? Sam wanted Dean to trust him and do this together and Dean said NO!

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  93. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 1:48 AM

    And how would Sam even know what Dean did to save him did Zeke wipe out his even knowing about it how can Sam be grateful if he does not even know its happening?

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  94. kerindaNovember 15, 2013 at 1:51 AM

    but Sam went to heaven did he not when he died in season 2 did I miss something Sorry I guess Dean did not know that HMMMM! OOPS!

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  95. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 2:27 AM

    Wow, two whole episodes. Sam get whole season long arcs.

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  96. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 2:30 AM

    Look, just come out and admit that you hate Dean huh? He will NEVER get any credit for ANYTHING in your eyes. Even suffering in Hell.
    I DO give credit to Sam for the good he's done.

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  97. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 2:31 AM

    Yeah, he wanted him to trust a DEMON . Of course Dean said no. And Sam nearly beat him to death for it, but I guess Sam gets a free pass from you for that of course.

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  98. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 2:37 AM

    Dean didn't want to tell Sam about what souless Sam did because A- he knew how bad he'd feel and B- Death told him how dangerous it would be for Sam to scratch the wall. Did you conveniently forget all that?
    Dean should never lie to Sam about anything, but when he does, it isn't for Dean's own benefit, but for Sam's. Still wrong, but it's to protect Sam. When Sam lies, historically it's been to protect himself.
    Dean had a reason to 'go off the deep end' about Sam using his demonically given psychic powers and drinking demon blood! He was afraid Sam would go to the dark side! Wow, you just degrade Dean for everything don't you?

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  99. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 2:44 AM

    I may love Dean, but I never will and never have given him a free pass when he does wrong things. I also feel he was wrong about Amy, not because he killed her but because he lied to/ hid it from Sam. I also thought it was shitty of him to be so ready to just walk out on Lisa when Sam came back. There are many other instances where Dean has acted like a dick, and I refuse to give him a free pass for it or condone it.
    And he was WRONG, to trick Sam into accepting Ezekiel, regardless of the reasons he did it. What I saw was Sam clearly wanting a peaceful death, and Dean taking his choice away from him.
    At least Sam got to acquit himself for freeing Lucifer by stopping the Apocalypse. Dean is never going to get a chance to acquit himself for violating Sam's free will, Caver made damn sure of that.

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  100. SPN FickleNovember 15, 2013 at 2:45 AM

    So you are saying that all of those Dean episodes meant nothing because the story didn't go the way you wanted. In Season 4 we had maybe 5 episodes where we learned more about Sam than we did about Dean... which included the 3 Sam centric episodes (After School Special, I Know What You Did Last Summer, and Lazarus Rising) and Metamorphosis and It's the Great Pumpkin... Those 5 episodes override Lazarus Rising, In the Beginning, Monster Movie, Yellow Fever, Heaven and Hell, Family Remains (another episode Sam where Sam was practically invisible), Death takes a Holiday, On the Head of a Pin, and It's a Terrible Life... How is all of that information about Hell, the angels, Dean's importance to Heaven just erased?

    Then, in Season five we have the same type of thing except the Dean episodes didn't exclude Sam as much as they did in Season 4, except for The End of course where we again had an episode that was practically all Dean with nearly zero Sam.

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  101. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 2:48 AM

    I don't know what girl you're talking about with Benny, but I agree that the text was a shitty thing for Dean to do. But at least Dean apologized for that, and I still don't think that that text compares to the far more shitty way Sam treated Dean last season. Yet, Sam never had to apologize for anything. The church speech, while moving and heartfelt, was STILL not an apology for anything. It sounded more like Sam was blaming Dean for how bad he felt. And Dean, yet AGAIN was the one who apologized.

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  102. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 2:50 AM

    I too, like Sam much better this year. He is more like the old Sam who I loved.

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  103. SPN FickleNovember 15, 2013 at 2:51 AM

    I wasn't even thing about him being a prophet... I was just thinking about the human part of the equation. I wonder if he "needs" the blood or if he I string to make himself more human. Now that I think about it, Kevin's hate for Crowley could be charging up the demon in him. I can't wait to see where this goes.

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  104. SPN FickleNovember 15, 2013 at 2:54 AM

    It is a symptom of knowing so little about Sam that I can get excited about such small scenes with Dorothy and Charlie. Fortunately I didn't hear that Sam was going to open up to Dorothy so I was happy with the little we had.

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  105. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 2:59 AM

    Season 6, where Dean went to Lisa AS A PROMISE TO SAM, and was drunk, had nightmares, and oh yeah, NEVER STOPPED being heartbroken about Sam and NEVER STOPPED trying to find a way to save him. Contrast that with season 8 Sam, who wasn't shown spending ONE MOMENT grieving for Dean and didn't lift a finger to even TRY to figure out if he might still be alive or what happened to him, had a lukewarm response to finding the beloved brother he thought was dead for a year being alive, acting like he wished Dean was still dead, siccing an unstable man on Benny behind his back, letting unstable man knock him out cold and handcuff him, bloodied, to a radiator, and then, when Dean had the audacity to actually be hurt by all this, threatening to abandon him again. And he STILL never apologized for a damn thing. Dean on the other hand, had Charlie no less basically call him a dick for the text and even after Dean told Sam to go back to Amelia, still, Charlie blamed THAT on Dean too.
    So, Dean got called out by SPN on anything he did, while Sam was given a free pass for the much shittier way he treated Dean.

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  106. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 3:05 AM

    He bitched and moaned to Meg about bossy horrible Dean so much that when she met him she hated him on the spot. He complained about Dean to the shrink. He was indeed telling, not only Ruby but Chuck too, how weak Dean was. And in season 8, he confided in Meg about his wanting a normal life.
    Wow Dean fans? Wow some Sam fans! ( not all, most are great). Ones like you though, Sam can do ANYTHING shitty thing to Dean and it's all fine, he can do no wrong, whereas Dean can't mess up EVER, he can't EVER do anything right in your eyes.

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  107. SPN FickleNovember 15, 2013 at 3:12 AM

    You are talking about a couple of episodes with Demons. Sam is "allowed to talk to demons"... especially if he doesn't know they are demons. I have only rewatched a couple of episodes from last year, so I can't remember him opening up to Meg, but I believe you are talking about a scene where they click off of Sam to follow Dean (surprise, surprise) and when they come back to Sam, he has filled Meg in on Amelia and not looking for Dean... Then she tells him he is a jerk or something...

    Do you really count scenes that happen offscreen as being important? You really feel that some unknown conversation with Meg is equal to an emotional dialog between Dean and Charlie or maybe Kevin that happened onscreen? So what happens offscreen counts more than onscreen? I'll trade you! I promise to cry heartfelt tears the next time Dean is hugging Kevin when they switch over to a scene with Sam and Crowley then switch back to Dean and Kevin after Dean's pep talk when Kevin is thanking him.

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  108. SPN FickleNovember 15, 2013 at 4:07 AM

    Dean has one friend? Everybody but a couple of demons and Lucifer were Deans friend or looking to use him.

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  109. Boris BreyninNovember 15, 2013 at 4:08 AM

    Either way he's a blood junkie lol I think he will use the winchester's to get his throne back by pretending to help them out. I think he wanted his blood to try the experiment and see if it has the same effect.

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  110. Boris BreyninNovember 15, 2013 at 4:10 AM

    Or he trying to see if it has the same effects he had when he intake Sam's blood

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  111. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 4:38 AM

    Who does Dean hang out with except for Sam? Cas. One guy. All the rest are acquaintances.
    Sam has Jodi, and is going to be featured with her again soon. But the whole point is, WHO CARES? So Dean has a friend or two that Sam doesn't? Sam gets EVERYTHING ELSE! So why the hell do you begrudge Dean having this ONE thing that Sam might not have? I'd much sooner trade, even giving Sam the "profound bond with Cas in exchange for just a FRACTION of the main story arcs, importance, real romances, EVERYTHING that SPN has ALWAYS given Sam from day one.

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  112. Donna CNovember 15, 2013 at 5:14 AM

    Just watched Tuesday's episode. I tried to watch Cas's storyline, but it was just so much like the other times he's tried to play as human. Sat through his scenes with Dean long enough to get the pertinent information on the angel killing people then FF'd again. The Kevin/Sam/Crowley thing was kinda interesting. Honestly, and it surprises me to say this, Crowley is the best written, most interesting storylined character this year.

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  113. lala2November 15, 2013 at 5:48 AM

    To be perfectly honest, I wasn't that interested in the Kevin/Sam/Crowley storyline either. I've realized that I don't care about the angels. I don't care that they fell, and I don't care how they can get back to Heaven. Haha! I'm over the angels who are really just demons in disguise!


    Supernatural works best, IMO, when the threat/enemy is personal to the Winchesters. I know the angels fell, but why is that Sam and Dean's problem? The angels haven't been bothering them. Are other hunters working on this problem too? I doubt it.


    I just feel like the show is lumbering along w/no real point. Nothing is happening. That Oz episode threw everything off track.

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  114. SPN FickleNovember 15, 2013 at 2:47 PM

    I wonder if he will try for a little Dean blood too. This could be fun, I hope the writers handle it well.

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  115. SPN FickleNovember 15, 2013 at 2:49 PM

    I agree. He has a very interesting story this year.

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  116. SPN FickleNovember 15, 2013 at 2:52 PM

    I think it is personal because the angels want to use the Winchesters to track Castiel. But, even if they weren't protecting a friend, people are dying and the Winchesters try to stop that as much as they can.

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  117. NickNovember 15, 2013 at 4:34 PM

    Sam believed that Dean was dead last year. You always seem to forget (ignore) that. Do you think he should have made some sort of deal to get him back? Do you think that he should have made some sort of deal to get confirmation or to get him back? Whose information could you trust on that show?


    It's so strange that you constantly proclaim to 'love Sam', yet you persist in interpreting his actions in the worst possible way. Why would you do that if you (as you declare) 'love him;? Sam doesn't act as you believe you should have acted and you decide that he behaved 'shitty'. Instead of thinking that maybe Sam was numb after losing Dean or shocked to see him or whatever you go on the attack. Some fan!


    And SPN did not give Sam a free pass, far from it. Dean brings up Sam's failings (the ones he is meant to have forgiven) time and time again. He did it again is season 8. He blames him for things that he's not responsible for (soullessness), while also absolving himself of what he does do (breaking the first seal). Even this season, a bit character flung the Apocalypse in Sam's face so how exactly is SPN giving Sam a free pass?

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  118. NickNovember 15, 2013 at 4:37 PM

    Sam asked Dean to go with him to stop Lilith breaking the last seal. Dean said no. Sam wanted Dean to go but he needed Ruby to go. She had the intel and Dean didn't. Do you think Sam should have just said 'Righteo, I'll just forget about trying to stop the Apocalypse because it's what you want'?

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  119. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM

    Sam DID treat Dean like shit after finding out he was alive. Numb? You find out the brother that you thought was dead is alive after a year, and you act like running into an old acquaintance? And then he kept on acting like he wanted to be anywhere but around Dean. Dean had EVERY RIGHT to be hurt by Sam's actions and attitude, and when he was,Sam threaten to abandon him again. He in NO way acted like a loving brother who was happy to find his brother alive. And then letting Martin do what he did. If Dean had done all those things to Sam, I guarantee you Sam fans would slam him, and you would be RIGHT.
    Dean bringing up Sam's soulessness was a dick move on Dean's part, nobody ever said differently. My problem with you posters on here is not calling Dean out for his dick moves, and he has MANY. My issue is how you give Sam a pass for absolutely everything as if he can do no wrong.

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  120. roxiNovember 15, 2013 at 5:50 PM

    And just HOW was Sam so damn sure Dean was dead? If he had at least TRIED to figure out what happened to Dean and came to the conclusion that he was dead, it would have been different. But the whole issue is that he didn't even lift a finger to find out! He wasn't shown spending one damn moment even grieving.
    I DO love Sam, the one before season 8. I don't give Dean a free pass for the times he's been wrong. But you people on here are unfair as hell to Dean,while you absolve Sam of ALL his wrong treatment of Dean. You call me out for daring to angry at the way Sam treated Dean, yet, the posters on here slam Dean freely,but of course that's perfectly ok, we don't question if THEY'RE good fans do we?
    This is one of the most biased sites I've come across, the reputation is well deserved.

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  121. rehabberNovember 15, 2013 at 6:05 PM

    Well if he thought Dean was dead this time, why didn't he think the same thing in Time After Time. He did not know what happened to Dean then either, BUT he started looking for him, he got Jody to help him. In S8 it was oh I ran, hit dog met girl...REALLY??? Sam would not have given up that easy..that is CANON for 7 years and it was thrown out in season 8.

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  122. Kaye237November 15, 2013 at 6:11 PM

    Don't think you need to do the first 2 trials to be able to cure a demon, the Letters succeeded without the Trials. Either way, don't think Kev's blood will do anything, maybe Crowley is just experimenting, trying with other people's blood see the effect, since he probably doesn't know what Sam's blood did what it did to ho,

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  123. NickNovember 15, 2013 at 6:42 PM

    In Time After Time, they were investigating a case that involved a person travelling through time. He had plenty to go on in that episode. It was a completely different situation than in the aftermath of 6.23 when Sam had nothing. Who could he go to for help? Jody? She knew nothing about the
    situation. He’d have to start by training her in basic Latin before he could even start. Should Sam have asked Crowley for help, maybe make a deal with him to get information, started the whole destructive cycle up again?

    In Season 8, Sam imploded, got in the car and drove and then hit the dog. He had no idea where to start, no-one to go to for help, and had experienced the danger of making deals. After experiencing 7 seasons (and numerous amounts of years in hell and various timelines) then Sam imploding made perfect sense. He’s not a robot. He’s human and thoroughly breakable. And it was not Lucifer, or the Cage or demons or the loss of Jessica that broke him; it was the loss of his brother. That
    says a hell of a lot about what Dean means to Sam.

    In relation to throwing out 7 years of canon, Dean is also considered to be someone who does not give up. Could you possibly explain to me (a) why did Dean not go to Bobby or Castiel when he was looking everywhere for Sam and (b) why Dean did not try and get Castiel out of Purgatory? I mean, he knew where he was, knew that he was alive, knew that it was possible to get out him out and he felt that he left him behind so why, when he came back, was his sole focus shutting the gates of hell and not on getting his friend out of Purgatory?

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  124. NickNovember 15, 2013 at 6:54 PM

    No, YOUR interpretation is that he treated him like shit. That’s far from a
    consensus and in truth roxi, that interpretation is one that is usually spouted
    by the most ardent Sam haters (though you constantly say that you're not one). It’s possible you ignored all that Sam said while he was with Amelia, how must Dean meant to him and how he imploded after Dean died. Grief isn’t something you can just switch on and off. Sam believed Dean was dead and he spent a year coming to terms with it. To suddenly realise that he wasn’t dead would be a huge shock for him so you’ll have to forgive him for not dancing a jig around Dean after seeing him. Hey, those who dislike Dean could easily say that Dean treated Sam like crap when he came back in season 6 and that he wasn’t happy to see his brother alive. After all, he didn’t go with Sam when he asked him at the end of 6.01.

    We know that Dean was hurt. Nobody is denying him the right to be hurt. Sam knows that he made a mistake. Dean certainly reminded him about it often enough. Sam had enough of Dean constantly shoving his face in it, for trying to shoot him for it, for dragging up things from years ago that Sam had long atoned for, that he spent centuries in the Cage atoning for, that Dean had supposedly forgiven him for, and he told him so. Do you think that Dean should have been allowed to throw Sam's mistakes in his face every time he wanted, to hold Sam’s mistakes as a noose around his neck so that he can say or do whatever he wants to him? .

    And ‘letting Martin do what he did’. Rewatch the scene, roxi, Sam didn’t even know that Martin was going to hit Dean. Dean was cuffed to the
    radiator because if he wasn’t then he would have tried to stop them from going after Benny, who they believed was a killer. Or again, do you think that Sam and Martin should have stayed and mopped Dean’s brow while another victim was claimed?

    Kindly point out where I ‘gave Sam a free pass for everything'. And who are ‘you posters’? Are they the 'Sam fans' (you've evidently decided that I'm one) or is it anyone who questions what you say?

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  125. rehabberNovember 15, 2013 at 8:12 PM

    When Dean disappeared in Time After Time they did not yet know what they were dealing with, but Sam went to work to figure it out.

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  126. SPN FickleNovember 16, 2013 at 5:11 AM

    Who does Dean hang out with? Who does Sam hang out with? Don't you watch this show?

    And you call the couple of scenes Sam had with Jodie as being "featured with her"? That might happen this episode, but the only times Sam has had scenes alone with Jodie were a couple of scenes during that zombie episode (Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid) when Dean was helping Bobby (a major character that Sam seldom had scenes alone with -- unless he was trying to kill him) and that Time Traveler episode that was about 70% Dean when Dean was hanging with Elliott Ness and doing all of the action in the episode... Sam and Jody got to unpack books, do research and mourn for a scene.

    You keep saying Sam gets everything, but you haven't listed anything major that isn't a one line story arc. Where are the episodes that have more than a couple of two minute scenes where Sam reveals something about himself. It really doesn't happen much. After School Special we got to see inside of Sam and Lazarus Rising... We got to see his panic at losing Dean in Mystery Spot. We finally got to see Sam lose control nearly two years after he went to Hell and it is promptly wiped out when two ye give up in

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  127. SPN FickleNovember 16, 2013 at 5:22 AM

    So, since Sam's trauma from Hell was totally erased by Castiel, it never mattered? It didn't make one shred of difference? I guess that means that since Sam always has to be saved by Dean, Sam should not show up at any hunts because it doesn't matter anyway?

    That is what you are saying... Because Dean had the balls to stab Zachariah in the face (as he promised to do) and stand up to Lucifer and Michael on the battlefield for The Apocalypse, all of Dean's story from two seasons was erased because you didn't like the outcome.

    Fighting to save Dean through out Season 3 didn't mean anything because Dean went to Hell. Being pulled out of Hell by a flicking Angel of The Lord didn't mean anything. Dean's story was big enough through Season 4 and 5 that they practically left Sam out of three episodes because Everything is about Sam?!? I have got to leave this topic because you are just not making sense to me.

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  128. SPN FickleNovember 16, 2013 at 5:48 AM

    We didn't even find out he was drinking demon blood a demon blood until episode 16 out of 22. We also found out the whammy that Dean broke the first seal. That was more of a shocker because we had hints about Sam. How many Angel and Hell episodes did we have by then. Yes, DEAN and Sam were fighting from episode 4 on, but the blood story was in the background. It may have been the "mystery", but it was not the main story by any stretch of the imagination. We found out he had an addiction in Rapture, I believe episode 18. Since episode 16 was all about Dean and episode 18 was all about Castiel, how is the blood the main story.

    Sam was allowed to be in Its a Terrible life nearly as much as Dean, but that story was about Dean. That was Zachariah trying to give Dean his fighting fever back. Sam participated, but Dean was the target... Kind of like Dean in Mystery Spot. Dean participated and was the victim and saving Dean was the goal, but Sam was the target. We are talking about story here. Dean had lost his drive and the angels were trying to give it back... Again there is a parallel to the demons killing Jessica. They didn't want Sam going domestic and getting soft. The angels wanted the same thing for Dean.

    Death takes a Holiday was all about the seal, Alistair and Reapers. Dean had the scenes with Tessa and finally had his memory restored from 2x01, In My Time of Dying. Sam had one brief warning at the end from the Psychic. It seems that all of your examples of Main Story come in 2 minute scenes in an episode. There was a reveal in Sam's story, but the episode was one of several Dean / Death / Reaper episodes.

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  129. SPN FickleNovember 16, 2013 at 5:55 AM

    @roxi, I lost my edit on the previous post because I am always too verbose... You mentioned the episode from season 6 where Sam tried to kill Bobby, that was Appointment in Samarra, Not Death Takes a Holiday, which is the Season four episode that I called Dean centric. Appointment in Samarra was pretty balanced and is the only episode where Bobby and Sam have ever spent any serious time together doing something besides research. Bobby and Dean have spent tons of time together comparatively... Sometimes Bobby yells at Dean, but at least he talks about more than the Japanese translation about ghost sickness.

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  130. NickNovember 16, 2013 at 7:37 AM

    Sam and Dean were in Canton for two days before Dean disappeared. Jody Mills had called them with a case, given them details, they had done research and interviewed a witness before he disappeared so while they didn't know exactly what they were dealing with, Sam had enough to start figuring it out.

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  131. rehabberNovember 16, 2013 at 12:31 PM

    And a whole season with the Levis did not give Sam enough to start figuring out what happened to Dean??? Come on you are reaching for ANYTHING to make Sam not look bad for NOT looking for him.

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  132. NickNovember 16, 2013 at 4:53 PM

    Why Leviathans? Crowley was also there so why not try him? Castiel was also there so why not try questioning the angels. Purgatory was for monsters, which Dean clearly was not.

    And I'm not reaching, I'm seeking to understand Sams state of mind after Deans disappearance, something you clearly have no interest in.

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  133. ScottANovember 16, 2013 at 5:51 PM

    I thought Crowley was trying to make himself just human enough that the Devil's Trap and manacles no longer work.

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  134. poptart_of_doomNovember 16, 2013 at 8:44 PM

    finally got a chance to watch it and while i liked it in of it'self i just... still feel as if the season isn't going anywhere overall yet. there is slow build up that hits you out of nowhere (sam drinking demon blood was my fav) and there is meandering storylines that lose their punch (this whole season imo).


    i don't feel like any of the loose threads are being used properly and a lot of the new questions they are throwing out are interesting to me as they are just rehashed versions of previous drama.


    but what i will say is that out of all the eps so far this season i really enjoyed the tone of this one


    i liked how the brothers were smart even if they didn't save the day. they weren't reduced to bumbling idiots just so the side characters could shine. dean bailing on research had more layers to it than "duurrr i don't like books". it was sneaky, it was sly, it was in good fun, kind of sad, but most of all it served multiple narrative purposes that allow for character centered breadcrumbs for later. like with dean lying to sam about going to see cas as a way to lie to zeke hinting at the beginnings of his mistrust of him or adding yet another thing pulling him in all directions and thus leaving him open to miss huge warning signs.


    while dean wasn't shown doing research for the hunt it was very clear that he was in control and knowledgeable. it wasn't that he didn't know what a familiar was just to move the plot. he didn't know because it was beyond his ability to know. he was a bit to jerkish in his comments about castiel's job but i didn't mind it so much as it allowed for the tense and combative nature of their conversation. they were snipping about small things to not look at the elephant in the room.


    i also like how in the end they didn't really reconcile. things were better but it is far from water under the bridge.


    sam wasn't playing second fiddle and making dumb choices. they used past character interactions to push forward the story and it only worked because sam, and kevin, have a way different relationship with crowley than dean does. so sam being "alone" with crowley, and kevin, was a good story choice. it didn't read like him waiting in the car while dean goes off and has a very special moment. sam was involved in scenes with a character that carries weight and had a history with him that is not shared with dean. i like it.


    i liked that kevin wasn't reduced to dirty looking emo kid and they remembered that he is incredibly smart, resilient, and actually wants to do the right thing. and that sam and kevin are very similar characters who should spend more time together. kevin is a sam leaning character so i didn't get the push for him to bond so much with dean (not that he shouldn't but it just made more narrative sense to me to have sam being the one doing the family speech to him)


    most of all i liked how even though they were separated they weren't. they checked in, they discussed the case, etc. if they are going to do more of these types of episodes i'd prefer it be in this tone. where if one brother is off doing something the brother's partnership isn't forgotten.

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  135. rehabberNovember 16, 2013 at 10:58 PM

    For 7 years we were pounded with the boys ALWAYS look for each other, then all of a sudden..nada, zip..Sam runs. No way Sam would have done that, he would have looked. Maybe he would not find anything and then meet the girl, but he would have looked. Canon was trashed in the first ep of season 8.

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  136. NickNovember 17, 2013 at 12:00 PM

    Canon was not trashed in 8.01 because Sam did do that (not look). Canon cannot be trashed when it comes to peoples actions because when you are dealing with people and their emotions, state of mind etc, nothing is predictable. And to say that Sam not looking is trashing canon is nothing more than a summary dismissal of everything Sam went through in the past that led him to a place where he ran, imploded and so did not look for Dean.


    People are not robots, they don't always react the same way every single time. Their experiences change them and often them makes them react differently to the way they reacted in the past. The first time Dean died (Mystery Spot), Sam slowly lost his mind, engaged in hugely reckless activity which culminated in him killing Bobby (the Trickster). The second time Dean did, Sam's became suicidal and his quest for revenge inadvertently led to the Apocalypse. Is this what you would have preferred to see?

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  137. SPN FickleNovember 18, 2013 at 8:12 AM

    In my opinion previous canon was totally trashed by a new show runner that decided to see what would happen. This totally shredded Sam's character. Carvet had him not look for Dean, abandon all responsibilities for Kevin and Meg (easier to do with Meg I admit). What about Bobby's library and the Campbell's library. Hunters would probably need that research. The guys were answering Bobby's phone. The, bam! Sam drops off the face of the earth.

    How did Garth suddenly start filling in for Bobby? Did he just find the library? I seem to recall a phone call between Garth and Bobby where Bobby told Garth to call the FBI and Garth called Bobby's FBI line. Bobby asked him how is he not dead? Then, Garth knows how to kill everything? This season is better, but I will never get over Sam going back to wanting to go to college. How does that not trash Sam's statement in Wishful thinking that "He's not that guy any more"? That just didn't make sense. Spending a day or a week like that is one thing, maybe a month... After that suicidal, vengeful Sam should have been front and center.

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