Officially until now, Matt Smith has been the 11th Doctor, meaning fans have started to wonder what will happen in 5-10 years time when we reach 13 after Peter Capaldi.
But Moffat has moved the goalposts, or perhaps more aptly stuck his own sonic screwdriver into the history of the show and given it a big twist.
On Saturday he told me Matt is actually the 13th and final doctor. John Hurt is officially now a doctor and David Tennant used up an extra regeneration during his stay.
In essence, the end of Matt at Christmas should mean the end of Doctor Who.
Where this leaves Peter Capaldi is unclear. But what Moffat would say is: "The 12 regenerations limit is a central part of Doctor Who mythology - science fiction is all about rules, you can't just casually break them.
"So if the Doctor can never change again, what's Peter Capaldi doing in the Christmas special?"
The other thing I know is that Matt's Doctor will talk of "dying" in an emotional speech on December 25.
Source: Radio Times
But Moffat has moved the goalposts, or perhaps more aptly stuck his own sonic screwdriver into the history of the show and given it a big twist.
On Saturday he told me Matt is actually the 13th and final doctor. John Hurt is officially now a doctor and David Tennant used up an extra regeneration during his stay.
In essence, the end of Matt at Christmas should mean the end of Doctor Who.
Where this leaves Peter Capaldi is unclear. But what Moffat would say is: "The 12 regenerations limit is a central part of Doctor Who mythology - science fiction is all about rules, you can't just casually break them.
"So if the Doctor can never change again, what's Peter Capaldi doing in the Christmas special?"
The other thing I know is that Matt's Doctor will talk of "dying" in an emotional speech on December 25.
Source: Radio Times
This is the problem with Moffat. Just casually renumbering everyone when we all know Eccleston is 9, Tennant is 10, and Smith is 11. Don't give me this crap, Moffat.
ReplyDeleteInteresting, Moff also made this point in the current DWM so I think it will be important in the episode. I don't think my heart is going to take Smith giving an emotional dying speech :( Capaldi's Doctor will surely have to explore why he's regenerated again next series? Maybe we'll get an explanation as to why he turned up in the 50th :)
ReplyDeleteWell people will still call them 9, 10, 11 etc so that won't change.
ReplyDeleteWell I hope whatever his idea is, that it will mean the Doctor can regenerate at least 8 or 9 more times.
ReplyDeleteHmm. Strange. No idea what'll happen then. Forgot about the false regeneration.
ReplyDeleteThe Doctor will continue to regenerate as long as the show remains popular and makes money for the BBC. Like John Barrowman said, they'll find a way to extend the 13 (or 12 like some are saying) regeneration limit.
ReplyDeleteI think that's probably what he is doing. Playing with the numbers so he can later increase the number of regenerations.
ReplyDeleteI must say I'm not very happy with him messing with the mythology of the show.
ReplyDeletemaybe the reason why saved the time lord's planet so they could continue with the doctor maybe someone on the planet does something so he can to continue to be the doctor unless they go a different route and have River Song come along with a kid and the doctor's kid calls himself the doctor in honor of his or her father
ReplyDeleteThis is the biggest non-issue in TV today.
ReplyDeleteI hope the limit solution makes sense. Failing that, I hope the solution is entertaining. In the end, all this regeneration math is just background noise on the Doctor Who train moving full-speed ahead. Personally, I don't care if The Doctor was granted an additional baker's dozen regenerations by a talking unicorn. Besides the potential entertainment value of the solution, it's really not a big deal. This is just an ongoing plot point that needs a resolution.
As far as the numbering goes, the fans eventually will land on something resembling a consensus so that is something that will work itself out.
So let me toss this into the works...If Doctor 8 died in the webisode (and it was implied back in "Left Turn" of the Doctor dies to quickly for the regeneration to kick in -- thats it), and got brought back to life with a regeneration -- that would make Peter C Doctor 5 now? (McGann 8, Hurt 1, Eccelson, 2, Tennant 3, Smith 4, Capaldi 5)
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Except he's not. AT ALL. Since the beginning of the reboot, everyone has been talking about the whole 12 regenerations rule (to make 13 Doctors) He's STICKING to the mythology if anything. We had all the numbered Doctors, the WarDoctor who we've just found out about who never went by the name of the Doctor (by himself or later incarnations) and we had the regeneration 10 used when he created the DoctorDonna and the Meta-crisis Doctor. Ever since people found out about JohnHurt Doctor and Peter Capaldi we've all been wondering what's going to happen. All this means is we're getting this answered NOW instead of waiting for a few more Doctors to regenerate and ask the same question.
ReplyDeleteThis also means we might be getting some Valeyard action this series (if they don't do some crazy twist and make Capaldi The Valeyard)
ReplyDeleteI'm actually glad that he is addressing the thing now instead of just stretching it, like this is IT.
ReplyDeleteThe Timelords somehow gave The Master a second set of regenerations in the old series, it can be done. And with Gallifrey and the Time Lords possibly coming back.....
ReplyDeleteOh, oh... I see what you getting at. Eight died and was brought back by other means, could that mean his regeneration counter got reseted?
ReplyDeleteI personally think it will be more related to Gallifrey.
Agreed, I don't get what messing about people think Moffat is doing, all he's doing is explaining the situation. The numbers that fans use will stay the same, and Hurt is called the War Doctor, it's pretty simple stuff.
ReplyDeleteThat could be one possibility. To be honest, it doesn't really matter to me how they do it, as long as it makes sense with the story, like they did with the 50th episode. What I'm most looking forward to see is the search for Gallifrey and where that leads to.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, better get it over with and continue with the Doctor's journey.
ReplyDeleteActually the idea is 12 regenerations - 13 incarnations. Which Moffat has just messed up;
ReplyDeleteWilliam Hartnell - 1st Incarnation
1st Regeneration
Patrick Troughton - 2nd Incarnation
2nd Regeneration
John Pertwee - 3rd Incarnation
3rd Regeneration
Tom Baker - 4th Incarnation
4th Regeneration
Peter Davison - 5th Incarnation
5th Regeneration
Colin Baker - 6th Incarnation
6th Regeneration
Sylvester McCoy - 7th Incarnation
7th Regeneration
Paul McGann - 8th Incarnation
8th Regeneration
John Hurt - 9th Incarnation
9th Regeneration
Christopher Eccleston - 10th Incarnation
10th Regeneration
David Tennant - 11th Incarnation
11th Regeneration
Matt Smith - 12th Incarnation
12th Regeneration (Creates Valeyard)
Peter Capaldi - 13th Incarnation
Death
Counting the David Tennant 'healing' during The Stolen Earth and Journeys End will mess up this continuity.
I'm guessing the way Moffat will get out of this is by having the Doctor's death split him into a darker and darker side - leaving his final incarnation Peter Capaldi and The Valeyard - while his 'corpse' becomes the timestream that we saw Clara and the Doctor enter (Explaining why they don't see future incarnations in the Time Stream)
ReplyDeleteThat means nothing. The idea was always 12 regenerations. 13 incarnations simply logically followed so of course everyone thinks that's the rule. Ten using 2 is simply a precedent and was a sneaky way of getting around changing faces.
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty much a perfect way to do it.
ReplyDeleteI love it!
ReplyDeleteOh and as an added bonus;
ReplyDeleteThe Valeyard would be revealed to be the reason the Silence are trying to kill the Doctor - having met the Doctor for the first time at the battle (Christmas 2013)
The Valeyard would be revealed as the one who destroyed the Tardis - with the Time Cracks being formed due to a future part of the Doctor trying to destroy a past part of the Doctor (Explaining season 5 and 6)
You forget - seeing as we've seen Capaldi it doesn't matter whatever Moffat does - as we know Capaldi must be the final incarnation.
ReplyDeleteWe know this by asking the simple question "How many Doctors came to save Gallifrey?"
Yeah, but the Capaldi cameo was just fanservice. We both know it's not going to end with him. They couldn't have every Doctor appear, because even THEY don't know how many there will be.
ReplyDeleteI am still waiting for the Plot Tweest, wen Capaldi's doctor discovers that he is not actually "next regeneration" but Valeyard.
ReplyDeleteIt is logic, that Doctor will get extraregenerations in the anniversry year. But now we're having problem with numeration. Typical Moffat.
ReplyDeleteHold on, the curator/Tom Baker... wasn't a future Doctor? When 11th says to him 'I never forget a face' he says 'I know you don't, and in years to come, you might find yourself revisiting a few'. Then he says 'Perhaps I WAS you, of course... Or perhaps you are me'.
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