Supernatural 9.03 "I'm No Angel" Review: What We Do For Love
Oct 23, 2013
Reviews SupernaturalThis week’s episode of Supernatural, “I’m No Angel,” was written by Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming and was directed by Kevin Hooks. Ryan Curtis (Visual Effects Coordinator) asked me to pass on that Hooks is “an awesome guy and really fun to work with.” Given how fun the set is renowned to be anyway that would seem to be high praise! This was Hooks first gig on Supernatural but he has an impressive list of credits that include Castle, The Good Wife, Detroit 1-8-7 (which was seriously under-rated), Prison Break, 24, Lost, and NYPD Blues – just to scratch the surface. This was a terrifically shot episode and Hooks got great performances from the entire cast, so I hope this is just the beginning of a long run on Supernatural. And a shout out to the entire VFX team while I’m thinking of them. This episode featured lots of great effects. In fact, I’ve been re-miss in not having a shout out to the team yet this season. They make everything look so good, you forget that people’s eyes don’t just glow, and actors rarely let you actually burn their eyes out.
Overall, I really enjoyed this episode. Misha Collins turns in a magnificent performance as Castiel learns to be human. It is both hysterical and heartbreaking to watch as he experiences what it is truly like to be human. It’s going to be interesting to see how different his character may be than the “human” Castiel we saw in the season five episode “The End.” I thought it interesting, given Collins’ own charity, Random Acts, when Cas tells the homeless man sharing his food with him that he’s found “it’s often those with the least who give the most.” Cas is definitely relying on the kindness of strangers, but he is also willing to do menial labor and eat from garbage cans. That experience also makes him reflect that “so much is wasted when so many are hungry.” Perhaps another lesson that Collins was happy to share.
I think everyone was wondering if Cas would get an anti-possession tattoo. I wonder if the enochian he had tattooed on is more than simply angel-warding – I certainly hope it will also prevent him from being possessed by a demon. Of course, he might have gotten more than one tattoo. I also wondered if he was hiding in China town because it would be less likely that there would be angels there as the religious beliefs are largely non-angel? When Castiel is overwhelmed by his new sensations, it’s a nice touch for him to retreat to a church to try to regroup. This scene with the woman who is praying for her sick husband is one of the most powerful in the episode. She schools him that his lack of faith doesn’t cancel her truth, her beliefs. The scene ends a bit abruptly, but not before a thoughtful look passes over Castiel’s face – perhaps he simply needs to regain his faith.
We have a new big bad in the form of Bartholomew (Adam J Harrington), an angel, who we learn was Naomi’s right hand man. He uses an evangelist, Buddy Boyle (Kevin Brief) to get people to say yes to angels. Boyle is watched around the world, so he is providing vessels all over the world. It seems likely that Bartholomew kills Boyle, but the episode never explicitly clarifies that. Bartholomew and his angels all wear suits like the soldiers we’ve come to associate with the bad faction of angels. Interestingly, Zeke did show up dressed like one of the good guys. Bartholomew is obviously not worried about adhering to rules and allows a young girl to become a vessel, knowing that she isn’t strong enough to contain the heavenly grace. I was a bit disappointed to see the “new-rule” reapers back again. When did they start possessing people, again? We have free-lancing bounty hunters hired to track down Cas.
Of course, the fact that April (Shannon Lucio) turns out to be a reaper makes it a lot more plausible that she would bring home a homeless guy and sleep with him and not be freaked out that he had a stab wound and said he’d stabbed a guy. The scene between April and Cas is another strong one as Cas explains that he’s in his current predicament due to his own vanity. He admits that he thought he was more effective and important than he actually is and that he thought he could fix everything. Collins does a credible job looking like he’d never really kissed anyone – though we know he did a good job kissing Meg (Rachel Miner). Hopefully, April wasn’t lying when she said that she was satisfied! The scene between April and Cas afterwards was awkward and hysterical. I do have to wonder why the reaper washed Cas’ clothes or slept with him – her explanation seems a bit thin. Why does she torture Cas instead of simply taking him to Bartholomew? He tells her that he was telling the truth, that he had trusted Metatron; he’d been naive, but he hadn’t been in on the plan. He’d thought that they were working to bring the factions back together, and he hadn’t known that Metatron was preparing a spell to expel the angels. Cas has a good point that it may be stupid to kill him as he may play some part in counteracting the spell – I really hope that ends up being the case!
There were lots of good bro-moments in the episode. Jared Padalecki is doing a great job splitting time between Sam and Zeke. I’m with Dean (Jensen Ackles) in getting whiplash as he moves seamlessly from Zeke to Sam. Even more impressive, perhaps, was in the scene in April’s apartment when he gets up and walks towards a then dead Cas. Even without an eyeflash, it was obvious just by Padalecki’s body language that it was Zeke walking toward Cas, not Sam. I feel a little less confident about whether Zeke is on the up and up this week. He must know who Naomi was, and he should know from the angel radio chatter that she is dead. And why is he so adamant that Cas must leave the bunker? Who is after him? Why is he in such danger? It seems like it must be Bartholomew. In the meantime, it also seems that Sam is starting to get a bit suspicious. He wants to know how Dean knew where to find April’s for instance.
I loved Sam explaining to Dean that Clarence was what Meg called Cas and that that is the name of a very famous angel – from It’s a Wonderful Life. Of course, at the same time, how did Dean miss Meg calling Cas that and it always rings a bit false when Dean misses a pop culture reference. Of course, Frank Capra might be a bit outside of Dean’s taste. I thought it was also hysterical when they have to try really hard to convince the homeless that they actually aren’t cops! Another nicely ironic moment comes after Zeke has healed Cas and Dean has to think quickly to come up with an explanation for why Cas isn’t dead. Dean tells them that he’d told April he wouldn’t “kabob” her if she saved Cas. Cas puts two and two together and says “you lied!” Dean, relieved, says “I did. I do that.” Dean does have a history of lying – at least to the bad guys, but he is also lying to those closest to him. Ackles is his usual impressive self, hitting all the comedic moments, but also clearly conveying Dean’s discomfort in lying and dealing with Zeke. The moment he thinks Cas is actually dead is heartbreaking.
The final scene between team free will is fantastic. It’s a nice touch that the things Cas likes best about the Bunker are the things Dean likes too – the good water pressure and food. But it’s also nice to see Cas telling them that he appreciates them more now that he has a better understanding of what it means to be human. I loved how Cas just slipped out that he had slept with April – all shyly proud of himself. He’s also willing to put himself in Dean and Sam’s hands as his teachers. Of course, they both look worried about what they might have to teach him. The final scene is heartbreaking. Cas tells Dean that he appreciates their time together, and Dean tells Cas that he can’t stay in the Bunker. Cas, of course, looks crushed. I really hope that Dean provides some kind of explanation in the next episode. In any event, he’s going to have to come up with a plausible explanation for Sam too.
What did you think of the episode? Are you enjoying Cas’ foray into humanity? How long do you think it will take for Sam to really start to get suspicious? Let me know your thoughts in the comments below.
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I was all over the emotional roller coaster, I really hope they find somewhere safe for Cas, so proud of Cas for surviving like he did, there is still some angel instinct in him I think.
ReplyDeletei cryed when Castiel died for that short time
ReplyDeleteAs usual you give me things to think about, loved the article.
ReplyDeleteI hope next ep that Cas figures out Sam is possessed and that is why Zeke wants him gone. Not only is Zeke healing Sam but himself also. After all Sam is a powerful vessel that Lucifer used. I don't know which side of the fence to come down on over Zeke..good Angel or bad.
The ending was sad and sweet ( Dean did what he had to) but the rest was horrible OOC crap. Why would a genderless angel become a titty watching heterosexual just because he currently has a penis?? Would Castiel have had sex with a teenage boy if he still had Clair's vessel. Heteronormative Queerbaiting at it's worst. The Friend of Dorothy episode now looks like adding insult to injury instead of being a cute homage.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, it's Dean who need to be suspicious. Zeke practically threaten him, and he's ok with that? still treat him as a good guy? plz at least in later episode, Can Dean ask Cas what kind of angel Zeke really is? Or maybe Cas would be angry about Dean after this episode, Cas want to live a seperate live for the winchesters?
ReplyDeleteI don't know man, I miss S5 Dean,The Dean that would let Sam jump in the Cage with Lucifer, so apocalypse is averted, not the Dean who would say yes to Lucifer if that means his baby brother can live. the Dean when Zachariah threaten to kill Sam if Dean don't say yes to Micheal, Dean say "kill us". The Dean that if Sam is die for the right reason, he will die with him, instead of doing all sort of shaddy thing to keep him alive, neglecting what's right and what's wrong.
The entire cast is amazing in general, but they really are doing amazing this season. Misha is doing so well with playing someone who is not used to humanity at all and Jensen is a brilliant actor no matter what he does, but Jared's snap shift between Zeke and Sam are blowing me away. I wish this show and the actors got so much more credit for the talent they bring to it
ReplyDeleteI thought they did a really good job of keeping him eye-rollingly Cas without simply making him a joke. I think that Cas is actually able to really appreciate what the humans around him are saying for the first time. I also think that it's telling that even Cas - who is the most sympathetic angel they've met - still didn't really respect humans. And what a novel concept to meet a woman who has faith even though she has NO reason to... Makes me wonder if Metatron has sent all the angels out of heaven to learn a lesson about faith and humility...
ReplyDeleteme too even though I knew Zeke was gonna bring him back
ReplyDeleteIt's really wonderful to see them bringing their "A" game this year. Misha has had so little to do in the last few years, so it's wonderful to see him get a real storyline. Jared is really bringing creating new facets to Sam to a new level. And I agree, Jensen is just wonderful at bringing those nuances out in Dean. Misha and Jensen are really just light years different from the characters they play as well...
ReplyDeleteI know, right! I really thought Jensen nailed that scene too.
ReplyDeleteThanks! I was thinking they were making it too obvious that Zeke was good - but now I have real doubts about him. I think that Cas must know something about angel possession that would be bad news for Zeke and Zeke is trying to protect himself from Cas to a certain extent - as you suggest. I think that Cas may be so distracted by simply trying to stay alive that he won't put two and two together - at least not for some time.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Dean needs to be suspicious. Zeke wouldn't be the first angel that Cas trusted who turned out not to be trustworthy after all. I do think that Dean did weigh all the options, however, and it wasn't as if the option to die together was on the table at that point. Dean would have been left alone - and after he'd promised Sam that he would "fix this." Clearly, Dean made the wrong choice - and he made it out of guilt for not having done the trials, but I don't think he neglected what was right and wrong. At the end of the day, I think that Dean still wants to trust the angels - or at least some of them...
ReplyDeleteNot sure Dean ever tries to trust angels, I feel like he loathe angels from deep down his heart, even to Cas, Dean boss him around for years, yelling at him if he ever hesitate to help, I always think it's because as much as Dean treat Cas as a brother, He still can't get over the fact that he's an angel, and Cas once was just like other angels who try to manipulates him, so Dean subconsiously think Cas owes them.
ReplyDeleteIs it just me, or is Dean feel more genuie and caring to help human Cas this time than he ever did for angel Cas in the past? I mean compare to Dean's reaction to Cas dying in S5 episode 1, S7 episode 1 and 2, and in S8 when Cas tell Dean he's shutting down heaven, never come back, and possibly will be killed by angry angels, this time when Dean saw dead Cas, he's much more heartboken than ever. I really do feel like now that Cas is a human, Dean can relate to him more, really started to treat him like a brother
I was imagining what Jared must be doing off screen in that screen
ReplyDeleteDean spent almost an entire season trying to stop Sam from doing that. And when Sam did do that, it led to terrible consequences. I can see why Dean isn't going to go there again. It's also typical of Dean to not want to let go of Sam. I just hope the writing is going to keep showing the consequences of this and that this is leading somewhere.
ReplyDeleteGood review. Thank you for this. While this was a good episode, especially considering the track record of these writers, I found it fairly plodding. It didn't grip me. Hey, personal tastes and all. As for Zeke, I'm still willing to go with him being a good guy, although there is always a catch. However, I do hope that the writers don't drag on his healing of Sam too much longer. It's already a bit over the top considering he was able to summon the energy to heal a presumably dead Castiel. So why isn't he able to fix Sam? He can bring Cas back to life, but still not be done healing Sam? Hmm, not consistent.
ReplyDeleteJared, as you stated, is seamless in his portrayal, so that more than makes up for the inconsistency as I truly enjoy his portrayal. It's already laid on pretty thick Dean's guilt over lying to Sam and hearing Sam's comments on body snatchers laid it on even thicker. Good thing next week's looks to have a fair bit of levity to it. We can all breathe a bit and then head back into the angel healing. While I would hope that would be done by episode 6, I think it's safe to conclude that continues to probably the mid-season finale. I'll take the ride, just hoping they don't have Zeke healing someone from the dead again and then saying, but I'm not ready to leave Sam because he'll die. Yeah, not buying that.
Also, pretty sure Dean would have gotten that pop culture reference. That's just these two writers, who in my opinion are the two weakest and really shouldn't be allowed to write for this show ever again, doing their usual poor job of trying to inject humor. Thankfully this wasn't the worst script they've ever done, and hopefully it's all they're going to write for a long time this season.
Season 9 is so far off to a very good start. I think it helps that Jeremy and Co. had their cards ordered from about mid-season 8 on, especially with the MOL.
Looking forward to next week. I love Charlie. She injects a lightness as well as really knows how to bring out the best of the brothers. Should be a good one!
thats why I think these guys are brilliant actors. You see them in interviews and at conventions and things like that and they are the polar opposites of who their characters are.
ReplyDeleteactually I imagine Cas's new found sexuality while a human is down to what his body reacts too so maybe if he was in a girls body he would have found boys attractive? Cas the angel is sexless but Jimmy's body reacts to females so Cas as a human would too? Does that make sense?
ReplyDeleteThanks! I have to agree with you on all points here. This is the first episode written by this team that I've enjoyed at all. I find they tend to write Dean badly in particular. The only excuse for him missing the pop culture reference is his general disinterest in movies that might be considered "girly" - he has on occasion not gotten other references Sam made (I'm thinking of a Very Spn Christmas - but can't for the life of me remember the exact reference). As that ep was written by Carver, maybe he thought it plausible Dean would miss this one... ERL is actually Bob Singer's wife... I'm betting that Zeke healing Cas took a lot out of him and will be the excuse for staying longer. It hasn't been consistent - if Sam feels so good that he's up early, jogging etc - how can Zeke leaving mean he dies? I think you are right that this isn't going to come to a head until the mid-season finale...
ReplyDeleteThanks! I think Dean is really conflicted over the angels. Remember how awed he was when he first met Cas - and how disappointed he was that most of them turned out to be dicks. But he still liked Anna - until she was turned. Dean bosses Sam around and yells at him too. I think that Dean has come to think of Cas very much as a brother, but I do see him being a bit more protective now that Cas is human - that's a great point!
ReplyDeleteMakes sense to me!
ReplyDeleteThey probably had to send him away! LOL!
ReplyDeleteIf that's the case then I wish they'd say it. There were a lot of people who identified with Cas because he had no defined sexuality.
ReplyDeleteThis is the team that didn't think Dean knew what a familiar was. Presumably they think the audience doesn't know so they explain through Dean. I also think this might have been an in-joke. Clarence = "Megstiel." Dean hated "Megstiel." He wants no part of it.
ReplyDeleteSam was warped beyond humanity in his last months. Cas is a human. I can see where it would take longer to heal him.
I was baffled by Cas casually, happily saying he'd enjoyed having sex and wanted more. Cas would have been conflicted. He enjoyed sex with someone who manipulated him and killed him. I just felt like they didn't want him to be too upset because he was being written out again for a while and they didn't want to delve into what had happened.
ReplyDeleteAnd Cas would know about protection. Really.
Jensen's performance and the way they showed Dean broken up over Cas, torturing for Cas, etc. were the best part of the episode for me.
I'm not sure why these writers have this weird reaper fixation. I want Tessa back so much but keep her away from this duo.
Oh! Love the idea that this was an in-joke and willful ignorance on Dean's part! Agreed about it being longer to heal Sam - good points!
ReplyDeleteNeither do toasters.
ReplyDeleteGood review. I thought this wa s apretty solid episode, but I did have some issues with it. For one thing, kicking Cas out of the bunker just rings false. Cas won't lead the angels to Zeke; the Winchesters are being used to lead the angels ot Cas, and since Zeke's IN a Winchester, relocating Cas won't get the angels off his case. Perhaps we're meant to think that nobody figured out that the Winchesters are the Casbait, but even so, having him somewhere unfindable shor tof finding and following the Winshesters would seem to me to be the best plan all around. I've been suspicious of Zeke from the beginning, and this makes me moreso.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the faith scene was interesting, but I have a hard time buying it. The fact is, in this universe (the universe of the show, that is, not the one we live in), we really ARE somewhere that Cas's knowledge trumps someone else's faith. Faith doesn't mean believing in something demonstrably false; it means believing in something in the absence of certain knowledge. Cas KNOWS heaven's locked, God is gone, the angels have been booted out, etc. This is not a matter of faith.
On the far more trivial side, the fact that Cas still hasn't figured out basic things like how to brush his teeth kinda irks me.
Then have Cas fall in love with a toaster.
ReplyDeleteThis seems a trifle hyperbolic. How is it heteronormative queerbaiting at its worst? Cas is in a male body. Jimmy was clearly presented as heterosexual. Sexual attraction is not a matter of choice but biology. Whatever angel Cas might have thought (or not thought) about sex is one thing--and I don't think that how he was presented in the past required (or even particularly invited) a reading of him as sexless. Future Cas in season five engaged in hetero orgies, for instance, and it was pretty strongly suggested that his attraction to Meg had a sexual component to it. But even if he was sexless as an angel, him now being encased in a heterosexual male's body, with all the attendant human appetites and needs now ones he feels on a basic, biological level, for sexual attraction to be a part of that seems entirely plausible to me. And for it to be heterosexual is seems to me to be consistent with the character as he's been presented in the show.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, great review! I found myself nodding in agreement and even exclaiming "Exactly!" once or twice.
ReplyDeleteI agree with some of the others that it's about time for Sam to find out about Zeke. It's been said on the show before: Sam is smart, and he'll eventually figure it out on his own. He's already starting to get suspicious, so the best thing for Dean to do would be to just go ahead and tell him instead of waiting for it to be spilled by some monster. I'm not saying Sam won't be pissed, but it'll be better if Dean tells Sam himself.
And now I come to the subject of the almighty Ezekiel. From the minute he first offered to heal Sam, I haven't really trusted him. I've wanted to, and I've kept waiting for him to prove himself trustworthy, but now I actually have a reason not to trust him besides a bad vibe. I know that it'll take some time to heal Sam all the way, considering the state that he was in after failing to complete the trials, but it seems that Zeke is a-okay already. I mean, he brought Cas back to life, so he's obviously got a LOT of his strength back. I'm thinking that Zeke is only helping Sam and Dean to help himself. He's inside Sam right now, which means 1) he's hidden from angels, 2) he's in on the major plans, and 3) he's being protected by Dean freaking Winchester. He pretty much has it made right now. And then he goes and tells Dean to kick Cas out, which just pissed me off, seeing as Cas vouched for him and seemed genuinely happy that Zeke was going to help Dean and Sam. And then, of course, Dean did as Zeke said because Zeke pretty much threatened him by dangling Sam's life in front of him, and we all know that Dean will choose Sam every time (which I am not complaining about because Sam is my baby). I want to know what Zeke's motive is and why he feels so threatened by Cas, but I've got a feeling we won't figure that out for a few weeks at least.
Again, great review!
I had a couple problems with the episode. Mainly the reapers. Why are reapers like...Really weak? I thought they were invisible and I thought they could stop time. And I thought they could kill you with a single touch. Why are Sam and Dean able to just grab him like he is some random dude? It's like Reapers have been reduced to "Humans that glow when they die.".
ReplyDeleteI'm also a bit baffled about why Cas had to go. I mean, sure he died. But why does that mean anything for the sigils? Didn't Sam and Dean get shot to death in bed and the angels never came down on them. In fact, didn't they have to have the Gods scratch off the markings from their ribs? I mean I guess he had a tattoo but surely Zeke could have fixed that up or put the markings on Cas's ribs? Does the bunker not have warding against angels?
Otherwise I liked this episode. I'm liking where the mytharc this season is going. I just have this feeling that Ezekiel is not what he says he is. Or not doing what he says he is. I can't help but think Ezekiel and Bartholomew are somehow connected to Michael and Lucifer. I mean look at how they act. Ezekiel has the exact mannerisms as Lucifer and Bartholomew has the mannerisms of Michael.
the bunker can't have wardings against angels because of Ezekiel:P
ReplyDeleteand I thought that the reason was that the reaper found him even though the tatoo remained intact - at least that's what Ezekiel told Dean.
I don't get why reapers are now angels and the rogue ones take vessels but it wasn't really explained.
The point isn't Cas identifying with sexless things but others identifying with sexless things. If the sexlessness is the appeal, then it kinda really needs to be something sexless, which Cas isn't.
ReplyDeleteYeah . . . by following Sam and Dean. Why wold Zeke assume the angels will not keep on following Sam and Dean in th ehopes of getting to cas through them again? Since he's in Sam, this angel strategy is inherently dangerous to him....
ReplyDeleteI was thinking about April - she just seemed to find him by accident.
ReplyDeleteThey could try following Sam and Dean but they didn't have orders to kill them so maybe Ezekiel doesn't think it's a thread or that when they catch Cas, they won't be interested in Winchesters anymore and he will be safe
Aside from a few moments with Meg, the character was essentially uninterested in either gender until this episode. That's one of the reasons some people weren't thrilled, especially since the whole thing was so rushed.
ReplyDeleteI agree it was rushed, but let's not forget orgiastic hetero Cas in the season five episode set in the future. I would suggest that some people are not thrilled by Cas being presented as overtly heterosexual not because it was rushed but because it clashes with their non-canonical constructions of him as gay, rather than sexless.
ReplyDeleteDeath and Tessa. They were perfect.
ReplyDeleteI can't agree that Cas knows for sure that God is gone. I don't believe there is any proof one way or the other - after all, it's not like he was revealing himself to anyone before the apocalypse was averted. I take it as evidence that God IS still out there that this woman still has faith - that on some level it is that faith that insures God's existence.
ReplyDeleteI agree that sending Cas away is just stupid.
I'm betting that Misha is basing Cas's brushing technique on his 3 year old's...
Thanks! And I was nodding and saying Exactly! to your comments on Zeke. I'm betting that even if Dean tries to tell Sam, Zeke is going to stop him... but I think that it is less and less likely that Zeke is going to turn out to be a good guy. Or we're getting just as suspicious as a Winchester! LOL!
ReplyDeleteI had a real problem with the reapers two. These particular writers have tried before to re-write canon on reapers in Taxi Driver. There was a lot of dissatisfaction with that episode over it too. What about having to have a special ritual to kill them? Yeah. Definitely not a perfect episode. The reasons for tossing Cas out are very weak in my opinion...
ReplyDeleteI think that Bartholomew's orders were for Cas to be killed, not necessarily brought back to him - but I still don't get why she saw the need to torture Cas :/ It almost seems like the writers couldn't decide if she was supposed to be a reaper or another angel :P lol
ReplyDeleteAnd it's actually somewhat-established canon that Dean's movie knowledge doesn't really extend to kids/family movies so much. In the fairy tale episode, he was clueless about Disney movies, and Sam had to fill him in on all the fairy tale info :P I think there was a reference at some point to Mary Poppins and he was also clueless about it. It seems like as a kid hanging out in all those motel rooms with cable, Dean watched a bunch of movies he probably shouldn't have been watching lol :P , but was not interested in kid stuff - which is totally IC. If a little sad. :/
I really really hope we get more of the conversation between Dean and Cas at the beginning of next episode, though I'm worried they'll cut to Dean and Sam talking about it. I do wonder how Dean will explain this to Sam, though. I actually think it'll be easier for Cas to accept this than for Sam to. :/
I didn't see Zeke's ultimatum as a threat. I saw it as him explaining the situation in terms that Dean could understand. Basically stating the urgency of the situation in the face of Dean's having to choose kind of thing. He didn't seem to gain any kind of enjoyment out of telling Dean he had to choose, he was just stating the facts as they were. If Castiel stayed, he had to go, but his going wouldn't be beneficial to Sam.
ReplyDeleteHealing Castiel seems to have taken a lot out of Zeke though. He collapsed afterward, so he's clearly not 100% well. I think he's telling the truth about both he and Sam still being in a state of repair. Sam's health is vastly improved because of Zeke's presence but without him he's probably still very sick/weak and Zeke still seems to be healing himself. Sam might not be strong enough yet for Zeke to leave but how much longer this will take is where I think we might see some deception on his part in the future. We know that the angels are looking for good vessels and after seeing that girl blow up because she wasn't strong enough to contain an angel's grace, maybe Zeke isn't going to want to let go of Sam so easily once they're healed. As an archangel vessel he's pretty durable and Zeke might get too attached to it after a while.
ReplyDeleteIt's more about the location of the bunker that Zeke is worried about Bartholomew finding out. Think about it - hundreds of years worth of information about all kinds of monsters, demons, angels, not to mention a prophet and the King of Hell all in one spot and Castiel is a magnet right now for Bartholomew and his henchmen. He has reapers tracking Castiel, who let's face it isn't as adept as Sam and Dean are in regards to taking the proper precautions about staying under the radar enough to not disclose the location of that place inadvertently. If Bartholomew found out the location of the bunker all of them would be screwed, so why the hell doesn't it make sense for them to go their separate ways? To me it makes perfect sense. Sam and Dean have enough to worry about without having to babysit Castiel on top of all that too. It's harsh to send him out on his own but it's necessary for everyone involved.
ReplyDeleteI actually think quite the opposite. I think that the deception over the consent issue with Sam and Ezekiel would be a major problem for Castiel. I can see him being pretty upset about that and when the crap does eventually hit the fan about it, we may just be seeing Sam and Cas being united in their anger towards Dean and Zeke for doing that to him. Cas used to be an angel and I just can't see him being okay about Dean lying to Sam about letting an angel possess him or Zeke for using deception to gain control over someone either. I think that Cas will take Sam's side on this issue once the truth does comes out.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that once the truth comes out, Cas will be siding with Sam and angry at Dean for the choices he's been making. I imagine it'll be something like when Dean decided to say yes to Michael, except that Cas probably couldn't kick Dean's ass anymore :P LOL ... (Though at this particular moment in time, TBH, that's not something I'd mind seeing :P *sigh* )
ReplyDeleteI just think as far as the part about kicking Cas out? If Dean presents a similar reasoning to Zeke's - Sam's not all the way well yet, it's not safe, what if the angels come for you, etc etc etc - I don't see Cas verbally objecting much. :/ I see him feeling hurt and rejected, maybe trying to point out to Dean ways in which maybe he could help, etc... but ultimately accepting Dean's decision mostly quietly. :(
Which just makes it more heartbreaking, because his guilt and regret over the part he played in the angels' fall is what would motivate that response, I think - the idea that the angels wouldn't be after him if he hadn't screwed up, and it's "fair" for Dean to not want him bringing these problems down on a still-recovering Sam. :(
Man, I want the truth to come out SOON.
I don't think Cas will need to kick Dean's ass since I think that Sam will do it himself this time and be completely justified in doing it. I hadn't thought of Dean telling semi-truths to Cas as his reasoning for asking him to leave. Cas would be understanding about that, I agree. Just not about the letting an angel use his brother as a vessel thing. Cas still seems to want to atone for everything he did when he was trying to be God so the poor guy probably doesn't even think he deserves to have a roof over his head and friends that would be there for him. It's kind of sad, actually.
ReplyDeleteThis might make sense, if they hadn't ALREADY brought CROWLEY there, for pete's sake!
ReplyDeleteWell, he does know that God id gone from Heaven, and he does know that heaven has been closed, and he does know that the angels have been expelled.
ReplyDeleteI mean, yes, I agree that the show leaves open the possibility of God still being out there somewhere, but the reality in this show--angels are objectively real and we meet them etc.--really undermines the idea that the woman seemed to have re: faith; what you believe and what I believe are equivalent, your belief is no better than mine. In this case, Cas's actually IS, because it's not faith, it's knowledge.
Cas had no sexuality at all, it was Jimmy's body that reacted to sexual stimulation.
ReplyDeleteNo I get why Reapers can find people. I just don't get why they are suddenly weak and unable to handle two people when they seem to have all kinds of cool powers. I mean, Sam and Dean are better hunters than in season 1 but it's crazy that they can handle a reaper easy is all I'm saying.
ReplyDeleteCrowley isn't a threat to anyone right about now so I don't really know what your point is about that. And when they brought him there they put a bag over his head, so even he doesn't know the exact location of the place. All he knows is that he's in a dungeon.
ReplyDeleteZeke may not have said it outright but it was definitely implied that Cas being there wouldn't be good for any of them, not just him. In fact, I don't even think that it needs to be said because it's common sense. He's a liability right now and Carver himself has even said that in interviews.
I'm just finding it really hard to believe that people are having such a hard time understanding why it makes sense from a storyline perspective to have Castiel separated from the Winchesters right now. It's better for his overall character development and it gives him a purpose other than serving as an awkward third wheel to the boys or worse yet, cooping him up in the bunker while they're out working on cases. Misha has talked about how excited he is to have this storyline because it gives him so much more to do than what he's normally used to, so why not be excited for him? I know I am.
Not to mention faith in the goodness of angels is catastrophic, leaving people open to possession, and a grisly death.
ReplyDeleteThe worst threat to Dean is a threat to Sam. Zeke is in Sam and therefore privy to all of Sam's thoughts, memories and experiences. No doubt in my mind that Zeke now knows Dean's biggest weakness....
ReplyDeleteBut that's my point. Cas has abandoned faith in the face of what he thinks he knows. We've seen many times how wrong Cas has been about the "facts." I think the point here was that you have to have faith whether the "facts" support it or not - that is the point.
ReplyDeleteExcept he is now human AND knows where the bunker is - they didn't bring him in with a bag over his head - so far as we know. It is easy for demons, reapers, and monsters of all kinds to find and torture Cas...
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone is not excited for Misha. If you want to focus specifically on the nuts and bolts of having the actor out of the bunker, it's clear that this plot point makes for much easier shooting for the 3 stars. When they are focused on the Misha storyline, Jared and Jensen get a long weekend. When on J2, Misha gets time off - makes for a better work environment. That doesn't mean it makes for a better plot point. I have to agree that Zeke's whole point was that he would leave if Cas stayed because it was dangerous for him.
ReplyDeleteNeither was Abbadon--when she was tied up. But, as you recall, she got loose. Even bound and demon-trapped, Crowley was able to manipulate Kevin (and if having Cas in the bunker is a threat to its security, how is the amateur Kevin any less of a security risk? Not because all the angels are looking for him, true, but he is a known factor and even more likely than Cas to accidentally lead a tail right to the bunker. Assuming he ever actually gets to go outside, that is.) How is it conceivably a good idea to bring the King of Hell to your super-secret Batcave, repository of irreplaceable wisdom of the ages? If Crowley gets loose--and do you really think this isn't a distinct possibility?--you can pretty much guarantee the bunker's shot as a safe haven. I mean, seriously, why not just put him in a heavily-secured long-term storage facility, bound, demon-trapped, warded nine ways from Sunday, maybe even encased in concrete right up to his neck? (And gagged of course. Why he isn't gagged is baffling.)
ReplyDeleteI have no particular objection plotwise or characterwise to Cas not being a house guest. I DO have a problem with the logically dubious way the show has got there. Zeke actually stating this threat would have some way towards resolving that (though it still wouldn't make alot of sense), but, he just doesn't do it. It's not the reason he gives, or even a particular focus of what he says: it's just, Cas has to go or I do. Not word one about how risky it is for everyone. It's not common sense, nor particularly strongly implied, as far as I can remember. No, it had to be presented as Dean faced with a terrible choice--my brother or my friend--not as a matter of reason and sense, but because, heaven forbid we ever let up on the melodrama for a moment (hyperbole--I do like the show but I do get tired of its ongoing insistence on amped-up angst).
(Someone else pointed out elsewhere that Zeke's presence in the bunker means it can't be warded against angels. Again, talk about security risks!)
I just find it really hard to believe how far folk are willing to go to justify poor plotting. . . .
YES! You exactly explain Dean's movie knowledge - it was a Very Spn Christmas when Sam brings up Mary Poppins. My fingers are crossed for that conversation between Dean and Cas, but if we ever see it, I doubt it will be in the next episode... :(
ReplyDeleteGreat point about Cas objecting to the consent issue - totally agree!
ReplyDeleteI'm betting that Cas will easily accept that Dean is getting him out because of the part he played in screwing up Heaven... again. Cas is almost as angst-driven as Dean after all! Which makes it even sadder because at least a part of Cas will simply feel like he deserves to be cast out...
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you're right that that is the point . . . but I kinda hope it isn't. Of course, that probably reflects my own massively skeptical view of faith more than anything else, but I have to say that this show trying to make an argument for faith in the face of the supenatural world it's created is . . . problematic. Admittedly, there's still lots of room for it to develop. I just find it, on the face of things, a dubious position
ReplyDeleteI see your point about Crowley because frankly it is reckless to bring him there. They could have taken him to another location just as easily. But as far as how they wrote Castiel not being able to stay there I think it was a deliberate attempt at fan service because it just does make sense for he and the Winchesters to split up from a storyline perspective. Making it a choice between Castiel and Sam is pandering, plain and simple. Since everyone already knows that Dean will always choose Sam the only reason for Dean to have to make a choice between them in the first place is to get a reaction out of the fandom. You see how well that's working out.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I love Castiel there are times when I wish he wasn't brought back during season 7 because it seems like a large portion of this fandom only cares about him as how he relates with Dean. And honestly, it's kind of a rude way of viewing the character. Why shouldn't he have an identity of his own that doesn't involve Dean? One of the most fascinating aspects of this season is Castiel being human and he should get to experience that to the fullest extent. But for some reason fandom doesn't want that. They don't want him to grow past being Dean's socially awkward sidekick and I think that's kind of sad.
I agree that Cas getting to develop in his own right is a good idea, and I agree as well that at least a segment of fandom is very much invested in a view of Cas that makes any such idea anathema to them. My problem, as I said, isn't with the idea of Cas being on his own and developing; it's with what you call the pandering and I'm calling bad plotting--maybe it's both! :p
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