I just have to point something out. Setting up the discussion about calling Snow White her Mom by calling her Mary Margaret was very poorly done. She could have just called her Mary and the setup would have been there.
That scene just really stood out with me because it was so unnecessary for her to use the full name.
I liked it but I was confused about why the character development was so horrible. Basically Emma is now exactly at square one, saying she feels like an orphan, blah blah. Wouldn't that have made way more sense in Season 2, when she was struggling with her parents being the same age and saying she still felt like an orphan? That way Emma calling Snow and Charming 'Mom and Dad' in the finale (a whole day before) would have made more sense and have had more emotional impact.
Also kinda confused about why Snow and Charming were taking over George's kingdom last time they woke up from the curse and now they're after Snow/Regina's?
Belle being there for Rumple felt very forced and really creepy, with her talking about how good he i inside, considering he had killed a woman in cold blood only moments before and had tried to kill Henry about a day before.
Sometimes it feels like the writers forget that they've written the show to only span a few months, with episodes taking place one after another and not with the week between viewings the audience gets.
Rumples stole the show for me! I LOVED the symbolism with Rumples and his doll representing his cowardly side, it keeps coming back because he hasn't fully let go of that side of him/his past. Also loved him ripping his own shadow. The Rumbelle moment was nice too. I didn't see the fake out of Excalibur coming though, I hope to see more Camelot stuff in the future.
So think this should have been the premiere episode! Goes into so much more! really leaves you with a twist! Can't wait to see if Charming is okay, if Emma forgives her parents, and if Henry really still mad at Emma! wonder how that will play out!
I loved it. I loved the parallels between the present-day stories and the flashback story. There wasn't as much sass as last episode, but still plenty of great lines. I like that Charming may possibly get his own story going on. And Peter Pan continues to impress. He's a great villain.
Another solid great episode. Peter Pan is officially my favorite character. He is such a scene stealer. I want more. He needs to join the cast. some how some way. Only thing that pissed me off about this episode was the comment Hook made about Rufio. My favorite Lost Boy might be dead thanks to Hook. I hate Hook even more then after he shot Belle.
This episode was the first time we saw Regina's reaction to Snow waking up and also Snow's motivation to wanting the kingdom. One thing we still havent seen is the battle for the kingdom. We have seen the before and after some of the inbetween
Yes, which is why I'm saying there is problem with their portrayal because of the way the writers have retconned which kingdom they're after as well as the dwarves' knowledge of Charming's identity.
I really like how they are developing Charming/Hook and I imagine when Charming realizes he's dying he's going to confess in Hook and not tell anyone, since Hook knows Neverland and perhaps knows of an anti-venom for the poison. I'm impressed with Peter too, I'm thinking he wants Emma as well as Henry, which is why he didnt kill him and maybe he wants Emma to be a mother for the Lost Boys ala Wendy?
i loved every Neverland part!! But i'm really getting bored with the Enchated Forest Flashbacks.. they're really not doing anything for me. They had actually sense when the characters didn't know who they were, but now it's just a bunch of fillers scenes to me.
I hate the positive Snow it`s just too much i like her better when she is fighting and being brave just when she was when she cut Regina with the sword, it was an episode about Emma and made us understand her better i think it was great! i wanna see some background story on Pan himself! and more Regina she was amazing. "You might still be a princess but you`ll never be a Queen" "
I think the whole point on Snow/Charming/Regina Flashback was to see who Snow really was meaning she was the real Leader of her Kingdom and she learn it the hard way just as Emma did the souldnt understand it untill the end!
Yes! I'm loving the Charming/Hook dynamic. Their banter is hilarious and I love how they're begrudgingly warming up to each other. I hope Hook knows how to heal him! The Lost Boys definitely need a mother in the loving sense, but it seems like maybe they don't want any kind of parental figure/adult to tell them what to do.
I have to say this episode was not a strong episode. I mean the second time Pan told Emma to stop denying who she really is, that is when I understood the title of the episode. I am sort of getting tired of the Emma feeling abandoned and stuff. Get over it already. Just tell them how you really feel and move on. They are going to drag this out all season I bet. I am not sure where they are going with Rumpelstiltskin's character. Is going to go on the side of good or is he going to go back to his full dark ways in Neverland. Should be interesting to see. Other that the episode was ok.
Why would she just call her Mary when as long as she knew her before the curse broke she was Mary Margaret and Emma continued to call her that throughout the second season?
I find that the only way to enjoy this show anymore is not to think about continuity and character development. But once I tried to stop analysing everything, the episode was good! Loving Regina's "I'm-so-done-with-you" attitude and her one-liners, but it's also sad that she literally has nothing else to think about beside saving Henry.
The highlight of this episode for me was Emma's confession that she feels like an orphan, Jen gave a wonderful performance and stole the show for me. I find it really, really annoying that Charming is always supposed to be "the wind beneath Snow's wings" - talk about a co-dependant personality. :S If they could at least give him some more screentime with Emma, that would be an improvement - I was so pissed that Snow did not let him talk to her. Also I'm always hoping for more Regina/David scenes, but I doubt I'll get my wish. :/ If only he could turn to Regina for help, that would be just the perfect twist. Oh well.
So, who wants to bet that Snow will go postal the MOMENT she finds out about Charming's poisoned wound?
Neverland is all about facing who you are - Regina has to face herself in Tinkerbell, Emma - her insecurities, Gold - his duality of coward and a villain, etc, so its only normal that Snow would have to face the extent of her capability for darkness too.
The point is Snow might be expecting (wishful thinking?) that. It felt awkward but I imagine it was done intentionally to draw our attention in context of the whole episode. The whole episode developed to reveal that Emma still doesn't forgive her parents for giving her up.
While I can understand not making it the sole focus of season 3, it looks like abandonment is a major theme in season 3. I feel that they have done a great job with the conflict between Emma and Snow (they tend to brush off Charming). Emma's distance is a lot more realistic than Emma running off to be happy with Mommy and Daddy. It is also interesting to see the difference between her and Henry - as Henry has pretty much accepted her with open arms although she really did give him up and Emma's parents didn't willingly. To be fair, Emma came back to Henry, but does that still give her the right to play mom? If Pan's warnings are correct, we will probably see Emma starting to accept her Snow and Charming as Henry brushes off Emma. Some other areas where abandonment could be played into this season is Neal/Baelfire, although the choice to leave was not his own, and Henry repeatedly trying to leave Regina for Emma.
Peter Pan is awesome. He does a great job holding his own on the screen. At first I hated the whole Excalibur scene - the sword was only meant for King Arthur. Period. But then when it was revealed that it was a fake, I was in shock. Well played, Charming, well played.
Loved it. This is exactly the kind of character progressions I want. I knew this "Island" would be good for that :p
I wasn't too terribly found of the flashback though, except to see "magic mirror". I know it tied into the theme of just being able to believe in yourself (and not magic), but it kind of seemed unmatched to what Rumple and Emma were going through as they tried to let go in order to better accept themselves (and so far for Rumple, it didn't seem to really work, but I wonder if it's because he cut his shadow?) Other than that there are a lot of setups. Charming with that dream-shade poison, Rumples Shadow hiding the dagger, Emma having to feel alone and despair in order to move forward (a backwards philosophy), Regina seeming rather subdued, and Snow being forcefully smothering, despite her flashback showed at moment of self doubt.
I think this flashback actually will tie in, in more than one way down the line. There was sort of this argument established "if" Charming was really serving Snow's best interest, or if he cared a little too much about his title verses if it is right for Snow White to fight for the Kingdom. By the episode's end it seems semi-resolved, as the Dwarves seem to accept him and Snow forgives him for lying to her about the sword....but now that Charming is poisoned (and lying about it), it brings to light (and may reveal) the duality of James onto Charming in upcoming episodes, in which we may be compelled to questions Charming's motives...It was also odd that Charming went to Rumple and seemed to end up not making a deal with him, as one has to wonder if "not making a deal" was Rumple's idea, or if Rumple asked for something Charming wasn't willing give???????
Another facet is "If" Regina would have kept her end of the deal, should Snow White and gang exiled themselves. Was Snow White retaliating and reclaiming the throne what really sent Regina over the edge, or would have she gone there anyways???
I love the show, but not every episode is "Awesome". I wish people would seriously consider that before voting. Then again, I often enjoy an episode more the second (or third) time around when I can concentrate more on the details than just making sure I know the general plot points.
Mom or Mary Margaret? I wasn't expecting Emma to call her mom. I had kind of hoped for Snow though, but not surprised that Emma is still calling her Mary Margaret.
I nearly yelled when they brought up Excalibur (the same way I yelled when they brought up Lancelot in s2) but I felt better when we learned it was a fake. Camelot doesn't belong to the Fairy Tail world, end of the discussion ! ^^
They established in this episode that Camelot is another realm, so we can feel certain that it's not apart of FTL, just that like all universes presented, there are potentials for mythology crossovers by being able to travel between them...
Yeah I know that, it's just that seeing such a huge legend being in a fairy tale is aching me a bit :)
But I'd be OK with it done, if it's cleverly done. The worst they could do is to make Snow White King Arthur, that's why I reacted that way during the episode ^^
Good episode. Peter Pan is awesome. More of him, please. Hook/Charming was also nice to watch. Some of the scenes felt a bit forced. The flashbacks are getting a little bit confusing. I can't recall exactly what happened when, but the development of Snow/Charming in this episode's flashback seemed a bit wrong compared to the chronological order. It's hard to express what I mean. I find it confusing to constantly fill in new parts of existing flashbacks at this point of the show. Would be better to develop completely new flashbacks. Rumple/Belle didn't really fit in the episode though Rumple's performance was enjoyable as always.
People are complaining but it was actually my favorite in a while. I like the neverland arc if they continue to make it a mix of introspect about the character, the complicated dynamics of the group, action and mythology, which they have been doing quite well. I especially like that they seem focused again a la season 1, they seems to know where we're going and even we know (i.e. rescuing henry). That's what I felt was lacking in season 2.b. I am happy with it.
I agree with you on David/Charming. I like him way ore than MM but I feel that the only proper time he got to be on his own was Season 2.A. when MM and Emma were in fairytale land. It's very annoying that he doesn't even have to get a relationship with Emma!
NOTE: Name-calling, personal attacks, spamming, excessive self-promotion, condescending pomposity, general assiness, racism, sexism, any-other-ism, homophobia, acrophobia, and destructive (versus constructive) criticism will get you BANNED from the party.
7/10
ReplyDeleteGreat character development but the actions scenes fell flat and not very iconic. But I enjoyed it a lot.
Maybe i wasn't in the mood for it, or not ready to watch it but it did nothing for me. Sure a few tidbits but i found it flat.
ReplyDeleteOnly strong at character development. Pretty weak episode in all other respects. I'm sure next week will be better.
ReplyDeleteI loved it! Awww at all the Charming family moments. Poor Emma. Glad Snow was comforting her.
ReplyDeleteI just have to point something out. Setting up the discussion about calling Snow White her Mom by calling her Mary Margaret was very poorly done. She could have just called her Mary and the setup would have been there.
ReplyDeleteThat scene just really stood out with me because it was so unnecessary for her to use the full name.
I liked it but I was confused about why the character development was so horrible. Basically Emma is now exactly at square one, saying she feels like an orphan, blah blah. Wouldn't that have made way more sense in Season 2, when she was struggling with her parents being the same age and saying she still felt like an orphan? That way Emma calling Snow and Charming 'Mom and Dad' in the finale (a whole day before) would have made more sense and have had more emotional impact.
ReplyDeleteAlso kinda confused about why Snow and Charming were taking over George's kingdom last time they woke up from the curse and now they're after Snow/Regina's?
Belle being there for Rumple felt very forced and really creepy, with her talking about how good he i inside, considering he had killed a woman in cold blood only moments before and had tried to kill Henry about a day before.
Sometimes it feels like the writers forget that they've written the show to only span a few months, with episodes taking place one after another and not with the week between viewings the audience gets.
I thought that too. It was really awkward.
ReplyDeleteRumples stole the show for me! I LOVED the symbolism with Rumples and his doll representing his cowardly side, it keeps coming back because he hasn't fully let go of that side of him/his past. Also loved him ripping his own shadow. The Rumbelle moment was nice too. I didn't see the fake out of Excalibur coming though, I hope to see more Camelot stuff in the future.
ReplyDeleteSo think this should have been the premiere episode! Goes into so much more! really leaves you with a twist! Can't wait to see if Charming is okay, if Emma forgives her parents, and if Henry really still mad at Emma! wonder how that will play out!
ReplyDeleteHasn't she always said Mary Margaret, though? I don't recall anyone ever calling just her Mary.
ReplyDeleteI loved it. I loved the parallels between the present-day stories and the flashback story. There wasn't as much sass as last episode, but still plenty of great lines. I like that Charming may possibly get his own story going on. And Peter Pan continues to impress. He's a great villain.
ReplyDeleteAnother solid great episode. Peter Pan is officially my favorite character. He is such a scene stealer. I want more. He needs to join the cast. some how some way.
ReplyDeleteOnly thing that pissed me off about this episode was the comment Hook made about Rufio. My favorite Lost Boy might be dead thanks to Hook. I hate Hook even more then after he shot Belle.
It was a flashback to after Snow wake up. We havent fully see how they took over both Kingdoms only bits and pieces
ReplyDeleteYes. And remember the last time they used that flashback to Snow waking up? They were literally staring at George's kingdom when they said that.
ReplyDeleteYes. but the point of the flashback was to see Regina's reaction to Snow being awake. something we never say
ReplyDeleteNo it wasn't, the point was to show that Snow wanted to take back her kingdom.
ReplyDeletei meant the part where Snow is waking up. Not Snow's motivation for wanting to take back the kingdom
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
ReplyDeleteThis episode was the first time we saw Regina's reaction to Snow waking up and also Snow's motivation to wanting the kingdom.
ReplyDeleteOne thing we still havent seen is the battle for the kingdom. We have seen the before and after some of the inbetween
Yes, which is why I'm saying there is problem with their portrayal because of the way the writers have retconned which kingdom they're after as well as the dwarves' knowledge of Charming's identity.
ReplyDeleteI really like how they are developing Charming/Hook and I imagine when Charming realizes he's dying he's going to confess in Hook and not tell anyone, since Hook knows Neverland and perhaps knows of an anti-venom for the poison.
ReplyDeleteI'm impressed with Peter too, I'm thinking he wants Emma as well as Henry, which is why he didnt kill him and maybe he wants Emma to be a mother for the Lost Boys ala Wendy?
i loved every Neverland part!!
ReplyDeleteBut i'm really getting bored with the Enchated Forest Flashbacks.. they're really not doing anything for me.
They had actually sense when the characters didn't know who they were, but now it's just a bunch of fillers scenes to me.
I hate the positive Snow it`s just too much i like her better when she is fighting and being brave just when she was when she cut Regina with the sword, it was an episode about Emma and made us understand her better i think it was great! i wanna see some background story on Pan himself! and more Regina she was amazing.
ReplyDelete"You might still be a princess but you`ll never be a Queen" "
I think the whole point on Snow/Charming/Regina Flashback was to see who Snow really was meaning she was the real Leader of her Kingdom and she learn it the hard way just as Emma did the souldnt understand it untill the end!
ReplyDeleteYes! I'm loving the Charming/Hook dynamic. Their banter is hilarious and I love how they're begrudgingly warming up to each other. I hope Hook knows how to heal him!
ReplyDeleteThe Lost Boys definitely need a mother in the loving sense, but it seems like maybe they don't want any kind of parental figure/adult to tell them what to do.
I have to say this episode was not a strong episode. I mean the second time Pan told Emma to stop denying who she really is, that is when I understood the title of the episode. I am sort of getting tired of the Emma feeling abandoned and stuff. Get over it already. Just tell them how you really feel and move on. They are going to drag this out all season I bet. I am not sure where they are going with Rumpelstiltskin's character. Is going to go on the side of good or is he going to go back to his full dark ways in Neverland. Should be interesting to see. Other that the episode was ok.
ReplyDeleteWhy would she just call her Mary when as long as she knew her before the curse broke she was Mary Margaret and Emma continued to call her that throughout the second season?
ReplyDelete"Thanks, Mary Margaret" sounded way too awkward.
ReplyDeleteProbably because you were expecting her to say mom, when she's just not ready to call Snow that on a regular basis.
ReplyDeleteI think Peter Pan wants Emma to free them all, so that they won't be lost boys. And he gets Emma through Henry.
ReplyDeleteI find that the only way to enjoy this show anymore is not to think about continuity and character development. But once I tried to stop analysing everything, the episode was good!
ReplyDeleteLoving Regina's "I'm-so-done-with-you" attitude and her one-liners, but it's also sad that she literally has nothing else to think about beside saving Henry.
The highlight of this episode for me was Emma's confession that she feels like an orphan, Jen gave a wonderful performance and stole the show for me.
I find it really, really annoying that Charming is always supposed to be "the wind beneath Snow's wings" - talk about a co-dependant personality. :S If they could at least give him some more screentime with Emma, that would be an improvement - I was so pissed that Snow did not let him talk to her. Also I'm always hoping for more Regina/David scenes, but I doubt I'll get my wish. :/ If only he could turn to Regina for help, that would be just the perfect twist. Oh well.
So, who wants to bet that Snow will go postal the MOMENT she finds out about Charming's poisoned wound?
ReplyDeleteNeverland is all about facing who you are - Regina has to face herself in Tinkerbell, Emma - her insecurities, Gold - his duality of coward and a villain, etc, so its only normal that Snow would have to face the extent of her capability for darkness too.
Yeah, it was, but it was really weak considering Heart of Darkness was supposed to have only taken place about three days before.
ReplyDeleteNo, that's kind of the point. Why would anyone be expecting her to call her that?
ReplyDeleteThe point is Snow might be expecting (wishful thinking?) that. It felt awkward but I imagine it was done intentionally to draw our attention in context of the whole episode. The whole episode developed to reveal that Emma still doesn't forgive her parents for giving her up.
ReplyDeleteYeah. I get the set up. It was just really, really awkward and badly telegraphed.
ReplyDeleteWhile I can understand not making it the sole focus of season 3, it looks like abandonment is a major theme in season 3. I feel that they have done a great job with the conflict between Emma and Snow (they tend to brush off Charming). Emma's distance is a lot more realistic than Emma running off to be happy with Mommy and Daddy. It is also interesting to see the difference between her and Henry - as Henry has pretty much accepted her with open arms although she really did give him up and Emma's parents didn't willingly. To be fair, Emma came back to Henry, but does that still give her the right to play mom? If Pan's warnings are correct, we will probably see Emma starting to accept her Snow and Charming as Henry brushes off Emma. Some other areas where abandonment could be played into this season is Neal/Baelfire, although the choice to leave was not his own, and Henry repeatedly trying to leave Regina for Emma.
ReplyDeleteFreaking awesome ideas! I hope that they follow those routes.
ReplyDeletePeter Pan is awesome. He does a great job holding his own on the screen. At first I hated the whole Excalibur scene - the sword was only meant for King Arthur. Period. But then when it was revealed that it was a fake, I was in shock. Well played, Charming, well played.
ReplyDeleteThe whole island theme, the journey through the jungle, the visions/apparitions, the lost boys, are giving me serious Lost vibes
ReplyDeleteLoved it. This is exactly the kind of character progressions I want. I knew this "Island" would be good for that :p
ReplyDeleteI wasn't too terribly found of the flashback though, except to see "magic mirror". I know it tied into the theme of just being able to believe in yourself (and not magic), but it kind of seemed unmatched to what Rumple and Emma were going through as they tried to let go in order to better accept themselves (and so far for Rumple, it didn't seem to really work, but I wonder if it's because he cut his shadow?) Other than that there are a lot of setups. Charming with that dream-shade poison, Rumples Shadow hiding the dagger, Emma having to feel alone and despair in order to move forward (a backwards philosophy), Regina seeming rather subdued, and Snow being forcefully smothering, despite her flashback showed at moment of self doubt.
I think this flashback actually will tie in, in more than one way down the line. There was sort of this argument established "if" Charming was really serving Snow's best interest, or if he cared a little too much about his title verses if it is right for Snow White to fight for the Kingdom. By the episode's end it seems semi-resolved, as the Dwarves seem to accept him and Snow forgives him for lying to her about the sword....but now that Charming is poisoned (and lying about it), it brings to light (and may reveal) the duality of James onto Charming in upcoming episodes, in which we may be compelled to questions Charming's motives...It was also odd that Charming went to Rumple and seemed to end up not making a deal with him, as one has to wonder if "not making a deal" was Rumple's idea, or if Rumple asked for something Charming wasn't willing give???????
ReplyDeleteAnother facet is "If" Regina would have kept her end of the deal, should Snow White and gang exiled themselves. Was Snow White retaliating and reclaiming the throne what really sent Regina over the edge, or would have she gone there anyways???
I love the show, but not every episode is "Awesome". I wish people would seriously consider that before voting. Then again, I often enjoy an episode more the second (or third) time around when I can concentrate more on the details than just making sure I know the general plot points.
ReplyDeleteI figured out why I felt like it was a bit off. She didn't need to say her name at all.
ReplyDeleteMom or Mary Margaret? I wasn't expecting Emma to call her mom. I had kind of hoped for Snow though, but not surprised that Emma is still calling her Mary Margaret.
ReplyDeleteI nearly yelled when they brought up Excalibur (the same way I yelled when they brought up Lancelot in s2) but I felt better when we learned it was a fake. Camelot doesn't belong to the Fairy Tail world, end of the discussion ! ^^
ReplyDeleteThey established in this episode that Camelot is another realm, so we can feel certain that it's not apart of FTL, just that like all universes presented, there are potentials for mythology crossovers by being able to travel between them...
ReplyDeleteYeah I know that, it's just that seeing such a huge legend being in a fairy tale is aching me a bit :)
ReplyDeleteBut I'd be OK with it done, if it's cleverly done. The worst they could do is to make Snow White King Arthur, that's why I reacted that way during the episode ^^
I agree with @Freda . Emma never really got to resolve her issues with parents with disasters coming from left, right and centre all of Season 2
ReplyDeleteOUAT is getting more and more depressing day by day...
ReplyDeleteGood episode. Peter Pan is awesome. More of him, please. Hook/Charming was also nice to watch.
ReplyDeleteSome of the scenes felt a bit forced. The flashbacks are getting a little bit confusing. I can't recall exactly what happened when, but the development of Snow/Charming in this episode's flashback seemed a bit wrong compared to the chronological order. It's hard to express what I mean. I find it confusing to constantly fill in new parts of existing flashbacks at this point of the show. Would be better to develop completely new flashbacks.
Rumple/Belle didn't really fit in the episode though Rumple's performance was enjoyable as always.
Boooooooring.
ReplyDeletePeople are complaining but it was actually my favorite in a while. I like the neverland arc if they continue to make it a mix of introspect about the character, the complicated dynamics of the group, action and mythology, which they have been doing quite well. I especially like that they seem focused again a la season 1, they seems to know where we're going and even we know (i.e. rescuing henry). That's what I felt was lacking in season 2.b. I am happy with it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your feeling, it is also confusing for me to fill so many pieces at this time, the dynamics of the relationships seem strange.
ReplyDeleteDisagree
ReplyDeleteI agree with your second sentence, exactly my feelings! I also agree with you on the flashback to some extent.
ReplyDeleteahah i felt the same!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on David/Charming. I like him way ore than MM but I feel that the only proper time he got to be on his own was Season 2.A. when MM and Emma were in fairytale land. It's very annoying that he doesn't even have to get a relationship with Emma!
ReplyDeleteI am also adoring Peter Pan so far
ReplyDeleteI thought the whole orphan thing was pretty sad. But that's Neverland for you! But you're right, at least Neal is still alive!
ReplyDeleteOh I am sorry. I thought you were talking about the overall quality of the show. I agree though that the storyline in itself was quite sad. Sorry!
ReplyDeleteI think Season 3 is off to a great start :)
ReplyDelete