John Goldwyn at the NYFF premiere of The Secret Life of Walter Mitty this weekend, when we asked how the writers decided on that ending. "They won't let us kill him," he told us. "Showtime was very clear about that. When we told them the arc for the last season, they just said, 'Just to be clear, he's going to live.' There were a lot of endings discussed because it was a very interesting problem to solve, to bring it to a close.
Source: vulture
Source: vulture
Not even a fan of the show but that's just ridiculous. Networks should have 0 say in how show-runners end something, especially after all the success Dexter brought them.
ReplyDeleteNever even watched and that's stupid. They should have left the writers kill him.
ReplyDeleteThis is outrageous. Good that the writers cleared that out, people should know what to expect from the networks.
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree with Showtime on this one.
ReplyDeleteThe show was never about Dexter getting his comeuppance and if the show killed him it could have easily come off that way.
What did I say!
ReplyDeleteYeah... I love that, creative freedom... ¬_¬
ReplyDeleteGuys in case you haven't noticed. Maybe they didn't want to kill him because they wanted to bring it back in some shape or form (tv movie etc) in the future?
ReplyDeleteI agree as well. I know it's also because they want to continue the franchise, but I def think killing him off, although I could live with it in certain situations, would have taken away the humanity they build for him.
ReplyDeleteYep.
ReplyDeleteJust in case anyone missed my run down of spin of ideas:
http://www.spoilertv.com/2013/09/5-potential-dexter-spin-off-ideas.html
Yeah and I think that's disappointing. Frankly I felt the final scene ruined a decent ending,
ReplyDeletethose motherfrakkers! but really it's not surprising at all, the decline of quality couldn't have been the writers's fault alone and it's quite ballsy (and also cowardly) of them to admit this so soon after the show ended... But anyway, i mentally checked out last year, and I stopped watching the final season right after episode six, I just came back for the finale because I just need it to be over, so yeah.... Still sad to see a show go down so much in quality though...
ReplyDeleteThe first season will always remain the shows highlight for me though, the following seasons could never replicate its perfection. sigh
Ugh. I can't ever saying HBO saying "Who cares what the books say, you WILL NOT kill Robb Stark." This is just untasteful, IMO, with the way Showtime has abruptly canceled a few shows the past couple of years, and mostly their attitude about it, I have no regrets in canceling Showtime whatsoever. Especially since I feel both Dexter and Weeds outlived their shelf life by 2-3 seasons each. What a joke of a premium channel.
ReplyDelete... but why!?
ReplyDeletehe was a psycopath what humanity?
ReplyDeleteI have lost complete interest in ever seeing a program on Showtime again after they ran Dexter into the ground and now this. Homeland will be the last, but of course i fear the same thing will happen where that show runs far too long
ReplyDeleteNot shocking but surely disappointing if that was the way the writers and producers were leaning. The less network interference in a show the better.
ReplyDeleteI am actually one of the few that enjoyed the ending and loved the final season as a whole. However... this is outrageous!! I wanted that to be the ending because it was what the writers thought it was organic to the show and made sense. It happened to make (IMO), but if this really is true is inadmissible! I am really perplexed with this!
ReplyDeleteThe odd thing is usually I agree with your point 100%!
ReplyDeleteI think showrunners and writers should create the show they see with little to no interjection from the Network.
This time though I think the network was correct to point out that thematically, the show has never been about Dexter paying for his crimes so do not kill him for a reason based on retribution. Not to mention the network may have plans for some future Dexter projects that require the character be alive.
If the writers had one idea for the end of the series and that idea involved Dexter dying, I would have have been irked by the network saying that. However, it sounds to me that the showrunner and writers really never had a conclusion in mind. Not one single and detailed conclusion at least.
I didn't want Dexter to die, but I'd rather he died in the storm than living a solitary life in the woods!
ReplyDeleteNo. He ended the series transformed. It's the idea that he may never have been a "perfect sociopath" to begin with, as it was Harry's guilt of not saving Laura Moser that transferred onto him, making him falsely need to protect Debra (He subconsciously equivocated her with his mother) and allow Harry to make him believe that he was a monster. It is for this reason Harry was the image of his dark passenger and presented philosophical/ethical debates that Dexter eventually challenges and even betrays.
ReplyDeleteActually, today I heard a piece on featuring J. R. R. Martin on NPR and it was stated that if Martin does not finish the other books in time that HBO will carry on their version of the novels without him.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.npr.org/2013/10/07/227772024/george-r-r-martin-author-and-movie-theater-guy
Because Showtime Boss wants to keep the franchise alive and although they could still do that without Dexter, there are 2 characters whos futures could benefit from him being alive (eventually), as he informed their story to begin with.
ReplyDeleteScrew these network execs. Telling a showrunner or producer how to do their job, on a show they were HIRED to let happen whatever happens happen in certain storylines,
ReplyDeleteHm. I wonder if the network also gave them the note to write one of the shittiest seasons of television I can remember since Entourage. This reeks of "don't be mad at us! The network made us!".
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to say because we don't have all the information, but it seems to me the network said that the writers were free to choose how they wanted to finish the show, so long as Dexter was kept alive. That is, IMO, limiting their liberty to choose the ending. It affects the quality of the show, which is unfair to the viewers, but most importantly it's a clear example of pulling rank simply to make sure they could spin-off the show.
ReplyDeleteThat's the main reason why something goes wrong, because people who think about making money make the decisions instead of people who are trying to tell a story.
But, again, we don't know exactly what went on, I might be totally wrong.
I didn't think Dexter was a strong enough show to make a spin off / franchise out of.
ReplyDeleteG R R *
ReplyDeleteExactly right!
ReplyDeleteI think that kind of interfering can put writers in a box and change the quality of a finale...
But, I think that really is only the case if the writers have actually written or decided on an endgame that has Dexter dying. If the writers have to rewrite their desired ending that is something I am not in favor of. It limits their true vision of their story.
When the writers do not have any ending in mind and are brainstorming ideas, I have no issue with it whatsoever. Shwotime wanted an open ending to leave future projects open.
It's a series that broke all of their series records
ReplyDeleteyes of course! Hard to type on my phone. My apologies.
ReplyDeleteI think your right, because different endings are coming out of the wood work (Clyde Philip's for example) and have made Sara Colleton the biggest liar in the bunch in terms of them knowing an exact ending, but I also think it's alright because Scott Buck has stated he would help David Nevins on a spin off endeavor along with signing a two year contract with Showtime...If they really weren't ok with this, and didn't also care about making a living, I don't think any of the writers would be up for writing more...If the spin off occurs what writers from Dexter who'll be on board might say a lot about this...
ReplyDeleteYep,
ReplyDeleteI have yet to read a report of any writer having a finalized concept, much less scripts for the season that needed to be changed due to network interference! It all feels like sour grapes over the public opinion.
Yes the network may have steered them in one direction (out of two directions) , but the writers are responsible for what they wrote - Not the network.
Not that I think the last season/finale would have suddenly been perfect, even with Dexter dying, but to know it was a mandate by the network doesn't bode well for my future with Showtime (didn't they also tell the producers of 'Homeland' not to kill off Brody?). It's the last season of the show- the writers should have a right to decide about Dexter's fate. And if you need Dexter for a supposed spin-off, then it's not really a spin-off and either way, we really didn't need more Dexter- the show has gone down hill since S4, I was glad it was finally over.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I generally agree with you, I believe that there is more than one way to get to a certain place. Don't get me wrong, I feel certain that Dexter being kept alive is primarily because of the potential franchise, but if we look at it that Dexter might have died a Hero in some other alternate ending, the point would be to meet fans across the spectrum halfway, as killing him wouldn't have let him be able to go on, but if he saved someone no one could say he didn't try to change or he didn't care...but really this ending still says those things, but I think it just feels a little too conflicting to some because of the way things worked out with Debra...but even with this, I think Jennifer Carpenter wanted out of the possible franchise, so I I think Debra's death is on her and not necessarily on the writers, although there is definitely proof that she might die at the expense of what her brother could not know....
ReplyDelete"And if you need Dexter for a supposed spin-off, then it's not really a spin-off..."
ReplyDeleteNot necessarily. If the spin off features Hannah raising Harrison, or an older Harrison the that series can USE Dexter effectively later in that series, since he basically informs their story. Dexter also was about the subjectivity of one's reality, as every season changed the perspectives in terms of Dexter's and Debra's roles. So this series could easily focus on someone else creating a juxtaposition to Dexter's story by placing him in second or third position on the back burner...
That doesn't mean you basically kill off the being Dexter, by putting him in a lodge being nobody now.... Its the last freaking episode you can do whatever, it doesn't have to all that accurate with reality, it never is, what you did also wasn't, so why not have him like the bad fool ep 11, sister lives ep 12 the mo fro private eye detective comes after Hanna and him at the air port with the Marshall, and have Dexter pen the Marshall and table the Detective and fly away in style out of character you say? duck you him going away is out of character, so no don't call out of character and let him go away after doing all that. sister lives with quin all be fine
ReplyDeleteThat was really lame, Showtime. Really, really lame. If Network Executives would be good writers, THEY WOULD BE GOOD WRITERS.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that he may never have been a "perfect sociopath" would be called on any other show a RETCON.
ReplyDeleteNo because most sociopaths do not question themselves. IMO it was always evident that Dexter never fit the mold which is why the show established it's survival of fittest ideas in the first season to set up that debate. Dexter kept thinking he was like all of these other killers, but he never really was, because he did care about people. He didn't want to be alone. He wasn't content with Harry's code.
ReplyDeleteIf you listen to comic con comments and Play fest comics it seems clear Jennifer Carpenter is the one that wanted out. So I think blaming the writers for that isn't fair.
ReplyDeleteIMO the idea of Dexter is like myth and the reality of it always had a fantastical edge, as there are too many ironic and improbable series of events (fate). But Dexter actually in ends in a kind of stark reality by contrast. He is made "real" and full of pain in it's final scenes, but yet there is still this great irony in it, as being a Lumberjack is both a wink to something spiritual ( wood = carpentry, Jesus was Carpenter, which could be an additional wink to Deb. This place seems like there are plenty of places to hike ) and parallel to whom Dexter has been (he is still hacking apart limbs, just of a different variety).
If a character is "emotionally evolving", which includes set backs, then the idea is that the character is never the exact same way twice, because the point of Dexter was ultimately that he could change. Additionally by having this kind of abstract aesthetic and the way in which it laid ideas down, it was trying to show you how roles could be reversed and altered from season to season, showing all sides to it's subject matter in that nothing is ever easy or simple. It's final season just solidified that the show was also about "control" and despite everyone's worse or best efforts, none of them had absolute control. Humanity is at the expense of nature and each other and possibly "something" else.
He wanted to be alone. Don´t you remeber the scene when Rita was dressed up like Lara Croft and erotically dancing for him and he felt....nothing? That was pretty emotionless.
ReplyDeleteThe idea to use a voice over to express Dexter's thoughts is a device to present ethical debates about whom the character really is in contrast to his actions. Dexter believed that he was a monster and that this "code" was the only way he could live, because this is what Harry taught him to believe, but over the course of time, Dexter had experiences where he could no longer deny that he does in fact feel. He was an extreme introvert, who was psychologically tramatized by a bad experience followed by a possible misdiagnosis, with no one telling him he could be different. By the time we get season 5 it's more than evident that Dexter feels a great deal more than he had let himself believe, by the time we get to season 8 he fully acknowledges his emotions and fights for them.
ReplyDeleteRita specifically was like another mother figure to him that he didn't have, just as Frank Lundy was like father figure that Debra never had (as Harry basically left Debra in the dark by spending so much time teaching Dexter). So his lack of sexual attraction is a combination of believing in "other" urges and because he really doesn't think of Rita that way.
The show was about watching him slowly come to terms with his emotions.
Was it really necessary to put a spoiler like this into the title? Not everyone has gotten to finish the show yet or start it at all and then you just spoil the ending like this...
ReplyDeleteThere was no sign of ethical debate in season one, as I recall, but let´s agree that we disagree on a few things ;-)
ReplyDeleteHe doesn't just kill Brian at first like the code says he should, because Brian jogs his memory and then the idea that Dexter could have a friend is what launches him through out the course of the series. Every time Harry says, "Dexter, you have to..." or "But, Dexter..." that's the urge arguing with whatever Dexter is doing...
ReplyDelete