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Arrow - 2.02 - Identity - Review - "Let's Talk About Laurel" and Episode Awards

Oct 20, 2013

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Note - There are 4 things you need to know about me before reading this review:

1. Laurel was my least favorite character in season 1. For me, she waffled between self-righteous martyr and manipulative hypocrite, neither of which did the character any favors.
2. I really, really want to like Laurel and I have high hopes for her this season.
3. The #1 item on my wish list for Arrow season 2 was that the writers improve Laurel's character.
4. I hate shipping. In fact the only romance I can even root for on this show is Thea and Roy and that's only because they both are interesting alone and as a couple. All other pairings, canon or not, generally make me sigh.

Previously on Arrow 2.01: Laurel was neither wishy nor washy. She stood up for her convictions without playing the martyr and saved her boss' life while risking her own. As well as kicking vigilante butt, she also defended her friend from a political bully. She was clear, sympathetic, and non-judgmental when she broke up with Oliver and understanding at Tommy's gravesite. Her interactions with her dad were both mature and heartwarming. All in all, this was a much improved Laurel. I cheered.

Fast forward 7 days and Laurel's a conundrum. In many ways I like Laurel 2.0. I have absolutely no problem with her targeting the Hood in an anti-vigilante campaign. In fact, it makes a lot of sense to me. If Laurel sees all vigilantes as a threat to peace in Starling City, no matter who they are, then it feels right for her to rid the city of them. It's a natural reaction to watching hundreds die senselessly after one person lashed out in grief over losing his wife. After all if one vigilante could turn so evil, a post-traumatic stressed Laurel could easily feel all vigilantes are a potential threat. Even last year she was uneasy with her partnership with the Hood partnership, questioning his motives and methods. However when she interrogates Roy, it is very clear this is a personal vendetta against the Hood himself, not a general crusade for justice. She doesn't care about the masked vigilante Roy speaks of and is only interested in Roy for Hood information. This is not a sweeping crusade for the legal system and judicial check and balances. It's a war on the Hood, and that's where things get tricky.

For the writers to sell Laurel's new anti-Hood attitude, she has to have a good reason and it was definitely fervent. Laurel: "My friend was inside the building when it collapsed. He went there to rescue me and by the time I managed to climb inside he was gone, but I saw you running away into the night. You didn't save him. You were too busy fighting a meaningless duel with Malcolm Merlyn, and when people…people you told me you would protect needed your help, you weren't there. I don't think you wear that mask because you are a hero. I think you wear it to hide that you're a coward and I promise you, I will see you unmasked, prosecuted, and sent to prison. Don't ever speak to me again." On first watch, this speech sold me. Laurel's hurt, anger, guilt, and own self-loathing rolls off in venomous breaths, underscoring tremendous grief and eliciting sympathy for a woman trying to cope with an unthinkable tragedy. It is Katie Cassidy's most powerful scene on Arrow to date and it is moving. But…

It won't make skeptical Arrow fans like Laurel. There is a difference between understanding a character's motivation and respecting them. After mishandling Laurel's character so badly last season, the writers must make the second lead character someone fans can root for. Having her go after the main character won't do that. The problem isn't the crusade but the motive behind it. Basically Laurel's trying to imprison the Hood because Tommy died trying to save her but the Hood didn't save him so the Hood is to blame. Not only is that logic completely hypocritical, an issue I had with Laurel 1.0 too, but it also assigns blame to someone who did not create the mess in the first place. It's as if Laurel is fixating on the Hood for not living up to her fantasies, for being a living, breathing, and yes, fallible person. She calls the Hood a coward and yet her own father and apparently most of the Glades know he tried to stop the massacre. While Laurel cannot know everything the audience knows about the events, she condemns the Hood for not being omniscient. He couldn't have known Tommy needed him. In addition, even someone with no earthquake safety training, like the majority of Starling City's residents including Laurel, should know that removing an impalement kills you quicker. What did she expect the Hood to do? Laurel is seeing the tree, oblivious to the forest. While her laser-focus on the Hood as the source of Starling City's and her own losses is realistic in this instance, I don't think it's the best way to redeem Laurel's character. If, of course, that is the writers' purpose at all. If not, I think it is a mistake. This isn't Breaking Bad and they are already trying to move Oliver from anti-hero to straight up hero. They need to afford Laurel the same opportunity to shine.

I'm more positive about Laurel already this season. She has a storyline which ties her to the plot beyond damsel-in-distress, bad guy of the week introduction, or 1 leg of a love triangle. That alone makes her less superfluous. She also seems more compassionate, willing to listen, and less judgmental of those she cares for like her father and Oliver. Laurel's no longer a saint; she's fallen off her self-righteous pedestal and she feels more real because of it. All of these are positive changes and I'm willing to give the writers more leeway than I would have last year. May they continue to make her independent but not at the expense of sympathy for her character. She's already more intriguing. Now it's time to help her win over the fandom.


Episode Awards:

Episode MVP:  James Bamford
-As always the fight scenes were top notch. Arrow and Revolution have the best fights scenes around so kudos to Bamford, fight choreographer, for another job well done.

Best line:  Thea: "I'll always think of you fondly."
-When your older brother asks for alone time with your boyfriend at the police station, it's not a good sign. I love Thea's snarky attitude and the fact that she never protested, but left Roy to his fate. Ha!

Worst line:  Felicity: "And I love spending the night with you…."
-Argh! Stop making Felicity sound like a silly twit tween with her first crush. It's embarrassing and no longer fits the character. She has grown up by being on Team Arrow. Just stop, writers.

Other great lines:

Diggle: "This is Starling City. You never have to look very far to find someone engaged in illegal activity."
Laurel: "We're not pressing charges so long as he gives up looking for trouble." Thea: "Might as well tell him to give up breathing."
Diggle: "Well it could be worse. My secret identity is his black driver."
Felicity: "Oh, may I get you a cup of coffee?" Oliver: "You're not actually offering to get me a cup of coffee are you?" Felicity: "Yeah…nope. That won't be happening…ever."
Shado: "No island, no place, can make you something you're not." Oliver: "So I've always been a killer."
Felicity: "I love that we live in a city where the police are more interested in catching you than the drug stealing mobsters. Our tax dollars at work."
Thea: "Now that we're closed are you going to be starting your second shift, suicide by Chinese street thugs?"
Felicity: "I hacked into FEMA's sever…yet another federal offense, thank you very much…"
Diggle: "You know we're getting dangerously close to hug territory so I'm going to fall back. You need a ride?" Oliver: "Turns out that being CEO, I actually have some work to do. I'll find my own way." Diggle: "You always do."
Roy: "I can fight." Hood: "You can take a beating. There's a difference."

Worst attempt at heroics:  Roy flips the car
-I root for Roy as a hero, but he is always over his head…this time literally.

Best forward plot movement:  The Hood recruits Roy to be his eyes and ears in the Glades
-Roy spent more time taking himself out than actual crime lords so I'm glad he's got a solid reason to keep in the mytharc, develop as a character, and end a never-ending argument with Thea. Kudos to the writers for accelerating Roy's timeline before it got stale.

Best Oliver character development:  Oliver: "What I meant was I'm sorry that I wasn't there for you because I should have been. I got wrapped up in my own suffering and I forgot that some other people might be suffering too."
-Now there's the Oliver who cares about his team. I like considerate Oliver a whole lot better than douche Oliver, which brings us to…

Best Felicity character development:  Felicity calls Oliver out for being a douche to Diggle
-I like how Felicity stands up for herself and the team now. It makes her more of an active partner instead of just the IT wiz. Last year both Felicity and Diggle took too many of Oliver's scoldings. While others may prefer Felicity's anti-secretary rant, I find this scene more adult and more team-focused.

Biggest "Ouch":  Slade: "She's a distraction and in a place like this a distraction is going to cloud your judgment and that is what is going to get you killed. Look at what this island's already done to you, kid."
-Not sure if it's jealousy or tough love but Slade just told Shado to talk Oliver down. I doubt this was psychologically helpful. Douche move, Slade.

Best Karaoke Moment:  Shado tells Oliver everyone is both good and bad, yin and yang
-Everyone else thought this was a beautiful moment. I got the lyrics to Ebony and Ivory stuck in my head:

"We all know that people are the same wherever you go.
There is good and bad in everyone, and we learn to live.
We learn to give each other what we need to survive, together alive."

Biggest Rip-Off:  Bronze Tiger's Wolverine claws
-I don't know comics at all so maybe Bronze Tiger came first, but Wolverine is better known by the general public. It makes me less interested in Bronze Tiger no matter how many arrows he chops mid-air.

Best Geek Girl Moment:  Cop: "Who in the hell could be feeding us year-old surveillance?"
-I adore Felicity's smile when she hears the cop. This is Felicity at her geeky best.

The "You Read My Mind" Award:  Diggle: "You know I've been meaning to tell you that it really wears me out to no end the way you refer to yourself in the third person like that."
-Thank you Diggle. Oliver's not a king. No need for the royal "we".

Biggest Hint a Character is Evil:   Blood is pro-crucifixion
-I'm calling it right now. Blood's involved in the medical thefts to rile his constituents for political power. He's evil. All he needs now is a mustache and German accent. (Um, sorry the latter is Sleepy Hollow.)

Biggest Logic Leap:  FEMA's trucks
-Why is FEMA sending unarmed trucks? This is not a local crime. If they attack FEMA, it's federal. That should bring the FBI and possibly the National Guard out for these thieves.

Best Unusual Character Interaction:  Laurel and Roy in interrogation
-I like that different characters are interacting. It is good to see Laurel outside the Queen/Lance families. It also let Roy spout his beliefs with someone besides Thea, while getting a glimpse into Laurel's thinking.

Best plot reveal:  Diggle and Carly broke up
-From what Felicity said, I thought Carly died post-quake but any end to the uncle-daddy plot is a relief.

Biggest Cliffhanger Bound to be Resolved in 30 Seconds or Less:  Oliver trapped in the police station
-Oliver is one smoke bomb arrow and shot to the ceiling away from escape, especially since the cops completely surrounded him and cannot shoot him without shooting themselves.  (facepalm)

"Egads, Not ANOTHER Love Triangle" Award:  Slade sees Shado and Oliver post-coitus
-Aaaaarrrggggghhhhhh!!!!! We just got rid of one. Please stop. If Slade goes evil over this, I give up.

Amell Abs Watch:  The Abs guest star in the new weekly opening as well as an extended workout role. They also strip tease for Shado. I hope they get their own paycheck.

Most Missed:  Tommy of course but I think Laurel needs Joanna back again to talk her off the ledge.


Screencaps by MTV, ComicBook.Com, Comics Alliance, and Screencapped.net.

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dahne@spoilertv.com

105 comments:

  1. I like many of the changes they are making with Laurel, but I strongly feel that she needs to be likeable this season. This motive is unlikely to do that. At this point, it might be best if she learns Ollie's secret identity quickly so she can hurry into her Black Canary persona.

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  2. Nice review. I like the awards bit. I don't agree with the Felicity 'And I love spending the night with you' bit. I just think it's another part of her character that makes her so brilliant.

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  3. Good review. I just disagree on two points:

    [Worst line: Felicity: "And I love spending the night with you…."

    -Argh! Stop making Felicity sound like a silly twit tween with her first crush. It's embarrassing and no longer fits the character. She has grown up by being on Team Arrow. Just stop, writers.]

    Felicity is a lovely character because she's smart, and capable, but also because she's clumsy and blabbermouth. I think her leaks to Oliver doesn't come from a crush, just from a "lets talk before think" nature. I find it funny.

    [The "You Read My Mind" Award: Diggle: "You know I've been meaning to tell you that it really wears me out to no end the way you refer to yourself in the third person like that."

    -Thank you Diggle. Oliver's not a king. No need for the royal "we".]



    I think that's just a slip, because "public" Oliver Queen is just a façade and he doesn't think of himself like his past self, therefore he's like another person.

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  4. "saved her boss' life while risking her own"
    I don't think so. She tried to be a hero in an extremely dangerous situation with armed men all around the room and was lucky she didn't get both of them killed. I hated that part. It felt like an incredibly contrived way to show she's a badass, because self defense classes and stuff.

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  5. The Felicity lines are bad, they used to be funny before they started trying too hard, trying too hard with the the sexual innuendos.

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  6. "I hate shipping. In fact the only romance I can even root for on this show is Thea and Roy and that's only because they both are interesting alone and as a couple. All other pairings, canon or not, generally make me sigh."

    Whats so interesting about thea, she is a nagging girlfriend, or maybe just a teenage female nagger. Always lecturing on her brother and even her mother and now constantly to Roy. Thats all she brings to the show and then she disappears, until next time she is onscreen to nag someone.

    Not an Olicity shipper I find that hard to believe but Ok, in any case surely a Felicity fan considering the bias in this article, lots of Felicity in it and of course the obligatory Laurel hypercritisism.

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  7. I'll be glad when the writers finally have all of their "origin" stories out of the way and this show can finally settle into pure superhero mode, because I think that they're only doing a mediocre to poor job at character development -- i.e., in general, not just with Laurel. The motivations that drive their characters always seem just a tad too trite or contrived to make them feel plausible to me.
    Take the huntress arc, for example. So Oliver had almost succeded in pulling Helena over to the side of good and she then slips irrevocably into darkness (i.e., becomes a ruthless killer) just because she discovers that Oliver has had girlfriends before her? How plausible is that? The same thing holds true for Oliver's changed code of ethics, this season. "Honoring his friend's memory" just seems like convenient cop out on the part of the writers to explain his complete change of course. It would have been more plausible if Oliver's own actions had led to Tommy's death, but that wasn't the case.
    And now, for some reason, the writers apparently feel they need Laurel to be angry and bitter at this point of the show -- perhaps as a motivation for becoming a vigilante herself, later on. Whatever the reason, her attitude change just doesn't "feel" plausible, given what has gone before. In real life, it usually takes more than just one event to turn a person as bitter as Laurel is being portrayed now. That's what has gotten people to hating Laurel so much. Her character is just sloppily written.

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  8. I agree with most of your review. I am one of the fans who does not like Laurel at all mostly for who I ship but I am trying to not let that cloud my judgment. I feel that Laurel needs a good talking to, again, by her father because he could explain very truthfully that the hood was helping him stop the quake. Most people believe that she will eventually become a vigilante herself taking over from Black Canary who will be introduced soon. Laurel needs to be liked by the audience and at the moment she is just annoying. I do not want another love triangle especially not on the island. I found it funny Slade still called Oliver, 'Kid', I don't think he has ever called him Oliver. I really want the plot to move quicker on the island so their is no time for them to create a love triangle. I also want Slade talking about his family more, in the comics Slade has a family his kids in particular play a big role with the younger generation heroes. Though the romance on the island could create story plot down the line Shado was the women who gave birth to Oliver Queen's son in the comics.

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  9. Wait until Dahne reviews an episode inwhich Summer Glau's character Isabel Rochev appears and you will see what "losing credibility" really means. When I mentioned to Dahne that one of her previous review was obviously biased because of her well-known aversion for Summer Glau herself, she admitted she doesn't like the actress. I don't mind when someone doesn't like an actor but when in the case of Dahne, it clouds her judgement and introduce a bias that in my opinion weakens her reviews.
    As a huge fan of Summer Glau, I make no secret that I have a bias in favor of Summer, but the difference is that I don't write reviews for Spoiler TV. Review should focus on the episode itself and not be clouded by an old bias from the writer.

    I must admit I REALLY like the new role Summer Glau plays. I look forward to more Isabel and Oliver banter.

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  10. BTW, I'd like to add a "Best Lines" category of my own, namely "Best Line by the Reviewer." The best line in this case was, "If Slade goes evil over this, I give up." If this really is the way the writers are planning to turn Slade evil...well that would sort cement the what I wrote about the character development on this show, wouldn't it?

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  11. I don't think they plan to make her likeable any time soon. I think their current plan with Laurel is a breakdown from which she will rise and decide to become a vigilante. If they ever want to make her the Black Canary, she needs to have a strong enough motivation for that and I think they will build that motivation through out this season.
    Personally, I have no problems with that. I already like her more now because I find her interesting, and just like several scenes were enough to make me suddenly love Quentin and Roy and to turn Tommy from a character most hated to a character most loved, I'm sure they will be able to salvage Laurel's character when the time is right after she reaches her breaking point.
    I don't think though we'll see Laurel continuing to blame the Hood for long. He'll probably save her and send her to an emotional limbo, and judging by the spoilers, she will most likely turn her blame towards Moira next and afterwards probably toward herself.
    I can't wait to see how Sara will be added to this mix and which relationship will be developed between them. It should be interesting.

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  12. ""Egads, Not ANOTHER Love Triangle" Award: Slade sees Shado and Oliver post-coitus-Aaaaarrrggggghhhhhh!!!!! We just got rid of one. Please stop. If Slade goes evil over this, I give up."



    Agreed, I don't need another love triangle, I don't need Slade and Oliver fighting over Shado and I especially don't need Slade going evil over a love interest. There are other reasons out there to go evil/feel betrayed. And I'd much rather Slade feeling like a third wheel and maybe missing his wife and kid, rather than wanting Shado (who is the only woman he's seen in 4 years, so I kinda get it).

    They really need to fix Laurel's character and making her go after Arrow for the reasons she stated (him failing to save Tommy- what was he supposed to do? It's her fault Tommy had to go into the building to save her in the first place) is not helping. I want some more forward momentum with her Black Canary storyline.


    Great review, really enjoyed reading your thoughts.

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  13. Biggest Cliffhanger Bound to be Resolved in 30 Seconds or Less: Oliver trapped in the police station
    -Oliver is one smoke bomb arrow and shot to the ceiling away from escape, especially since the cops completely surrounded him and cannot shoot him without shooting themselves. (facepalm)




    muhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh! i've read so many comments about the awesomeness of that cliffhanger and, wow and woe, who shall save Oliver now, and i thought i was the only one thinking "ooohh pleeease! this isn't even hard! any bullet they shoot has more chances to hit a cop than the Hood!".
    Glad to see i'm not the only one...

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  14. A review is always subjective, otherwise it would just be a recap.

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  15. *groan* really? well, u r way more optimistic than me then. I LIKE Black Canary and i've bn trying sooo hard to 'see' her in this Laurel in s1, and then s02e01 made me kinda hopeful... alas s02e02 had to come by and now she blames ALL vigilantes and lets bad guys go away and innocent people suffer just to catch the Hood?! i'm fed up with this! i so am! the character suffers from severe chronic inconsistency with symptoms of self righteous hipocrisy and shallowness and can someone change so much? at this point it'd b way too unrealistic to turn her into Black Canary. people don't change that much, not in their core. unless she survives a bullet to the head and gets total amnesia (...ala " Regarding Henry") or maybe her and Shado's souls can change bodies (ala a bunch of shows and movies out there) i can't c a way...

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  16. There's lots I don't agree with here. First, the Huntress, she grew up with a father that murdered her boyfriend and tried to control her every move. Because of that she had trust issues, she never wanted to trust Oliver, and she was looking for reasons not to trust him. The looks he exchanged with Laurel were enough for her to decide not to trust him and that fit her characterization.
    As for Oliver and Tommy, Oliver could've prevented Tommy's death had he let Malcolm die in Dead To Rights, had he didn't stop questioning his mother, and had he found about the Undertaking beforehand. He has enough motivation to blame himself and to want to honor Tommy's memory, especially when considering Tommy was his best friend.

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  17. Maybe, but my point is that none of this came across strongly enough for me. Maybe that's just not possible, given the time limits of such a show; but there just wasn't enough psychological build-up for some of the reactions of some of the characters to seem plausible to me. Of course, maybe I'm just a person who needs to be hit over the head with a hammer, before noticing anything at all ;)

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  18. I thought you were gonna stop doing this.
    *rolls eyes*

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  19. I simply agreed with the post above mine. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks Dahne's bias are a problem.

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  20. The reviewer is a self-professed Felicity fan, so the "lots of Felicity" and the mild "gushing" should not come as a surprise...As for the obligatory Laurel hypercriticism, I was actually more focused on the positive assessment of season two Laurel Lance. Given the inordinate amount of vitriol that has been poured over Laurel in social media since "Identity", I found it encouraging to see that someone actually likes the direction the writers are taking with Laurel in season two. Making her Oliver's adversary is a risky endeavor on their part, and they could have given her more believable motives for going after the Hood, especially since they should be aware of how fandoms treats anyone who goes after the male protagonist. However, I find bad/mentally confused Laurel a lot more interesting than moping "caught-in-a -love triangle" Laurel, regardless of whether the rest of the fandom agrees or not. At least Dahne doesn't paint Laurel and the Laurel/Oliver relationship in the darkest colors just to prop the inane "Olicity" ship, which is what many "closet" Olicity shippers do, while claiming that they have a purely objective POV on the matter!

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  21. Well they have laser points on him, hard to miss...

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  22. " If they ever want to make her the Black Canary ..." I thought that the blond girl Roy saw attack the gang was Black Canary. It looked to me like Laurel has already decided to become a vigilante - possibly in her mind to put the little guys first like Tommy.

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  23. Actually no. Like ViKi said below, "it's just from a "lets talk before think" nature."

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  24. I agree that this plot is probably the catalyst that turns Laurel into the Black Canary and I also agree that Luarel is far more interesting so far in season 2. I like her more as well. However, I am not quite as certain that they have an indefinite time to turn the fandom's opinion around about her. There seems to be an extreme amount of anti-Laurel opinion right now, even more than last year. I think they will have to make this quest sympathetic or resolve it quickly. I'm not sure the Hood saving her is going to do it, since he did that last year. I think it is going to take either Laurel learning that Oliver is the Hood or going vigilante herself to cause the change.

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  25. Apparently that was Black Canary 1.0 and Laurel is going to become Black Canary 2.0, probably sooner rather than later.

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  26. I think that if the original Black Canary is presented as an old friend of Laurel's and Laurel is indirectly responsible for her death, it would make a lot of sense for Laurel to don the Black Canary moniker as a way of continuining her crusade. Not saying that they will go in this direction but it seems a plausible comic book-type motivation. I do agree that the writers are inconsistent about Laurel, but they largely fixed that with Thea, who was wildly inconsistent in the beginning, so I have hope they can do the same with Laurel.

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  27. Agreed. These comments are way, way overdone by now. Instead of cute they are grating.

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  28. I actually like Felicity's verbal spewing but not about her crush on Oliver anymore. She used to do it about everything and it was quirky. Trying to add yet another tween twit crush remark every episode though has become tiresome. Why don't they let her spew about other things like they used to?

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  29. I don't dislike Felicity as a blabbermouth but she can do that about the cases and other things. This feels like blatant pandering to the Olicity section of the fandom and hurts the character's credibility in my eyes.


    I agree that Oliver sees Oliver Queen as just another alias, similar to the Hood. However, it's not going to play well when he does it in front of others like Diggle remarked. Can you imagine how much Blood could spin this if he heard it? It would not be pretty.

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  30. It was definitely a plot device but a welcome one to me. I think that she would have backed off if it wasn't pretty clear that they intended to kill her boss. I don't fault her for trying to save him with what she has at her disposal. Now if no one was in danger and she just leapt at the guy to be a hero, that would be a totally different story for me.

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  31. I guess maybe to please some fans. IDK but you know how it is with the CW shows and their never ending love triangles.

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  32. Trust me, I have no interest in Olicity at all. In fact, I think it would hurt the show and I think some things already smack of fan pandering to that segment of the audience, which I do not like. However, I am a Felicity fan. Last season, Laurel was my least favorite character and Felicity was my favorite. This season I am liking Laurel a little better so far and Felicity a little less. Of course that is partly because the pervading thought in the fandom seems to be that Felicity can do no wrong and I completely disagree with that. I put those 4 notes in the front so everyone would know what biases I can into season 2 with. I think that is a fair way of doing things since everyone has their favorites. However I do think that I showed the positive aspects of Laurel this season as well as the negative, and I don't think anything I've said about her this season is hypercritical. It seems like your comment is showing your biases as well.


    As for Thea, I agree that she can be a nag but one of the reasons I like the character so much is because I think Willa Holland is the best actor out of all the main characters. She can change terrible lines into decent ones and sell a scene that others would lead more to melodrama. I was not a fan of the character at the beginning because the writers didn't seem to know what to do with her (similar to Laurel right now), but by midseason she morphed into a very interesting character to me. While I find her as a night club owner completely implausible, I must admit that seeing her character more grown up appeals to me and I like that she has the opportunity to interact with more characters just by spending a lot of time at Verdant. To me Thea is the wirters' first success story and I largely hope that they can make such a good reversal with Laurel. The second main character of a story deserves that at least.

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  33. Isabel would definitely earn my Least Missed Character award, but funnily enough I didn't find any reason to talk about her since she wasn't in the episode.

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  34. I do like Felicity as the resident geek girl and I do tend to find her lines the funniest. However I have no interest whatsoever in Arrow becoming the Olicity show. I think shipping ruins good shows more often than not so I am definitely not a "closet" Olicity shipper. Thank you for seeing the positive things I mentioned in the review. While I would have been fine if they had killed Laurel off in the season 1 finale, I do not think she deserves the overwhelming flack that the character is getting right now. They have made some positive strides in Lauel's character that I hope continue. I also hope they can win over the majority of the fandom by integrating Laurel into the plot more actively than last year. I really do feel that is where they are going with this and I look forward to Laurel becoming at least more tolerated and hopefully actually liked by the end of the season. Turning her into a kick butt crusader for justice who knows she isn't infallible and doesn't hold others to impossible standards is a great start. This is the Laurel I am enjoying so far this season.

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  35. I don't think the Arrow writers have made a mess of motivation as much as you do but I agree they can do better in this area. I actually think Oliver's motivation to not kill this season is very plausible. His best friend died after calling him a murderer and they never got to really resolve that. It would be enough for anyone in a stressful situation to change their motivations. As for Helena, I was much more surprised at her short turn to good than slipping back into old patterns. Laurel's character though has definitely taken a beating from the writers. I am good with her being bitter and disillusioned after the quake but I think her motivation for the Hood pursuit needs work.


    Mostly though, I too am anxious to go beyond the origins and get into strong action driving the plot. It is a superhero show and I'd like to see more butt kicking because of it. I understand there needs to be internal and external conflict but origin stories tend to drag things out and I'm an impatient viewer.

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  36. I don't think the Huntress changed due to trust issues. I think she never really changed to begin with and that made a convenient excuse. It would be hard to let go of the immense anger she felt at her father so quickly.


    I also disagree that Oliver could have stopped Merlyn's plan except by letting him die, which would have led to all kinds of other complications. However I think that going in believing there is one device to stop makes sense. They did stop what they knew about. It was just that Malcolm was craftier and evil. I'm not sure if Moira knew there were 2 devices either. For the most part, I think Team Arrow did an amazing job rooting out what the Undertaking was and doing there best to stop it. For me, a large part of Oliver's issue is actually survivor's guilt.

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  37. Ha! For me Malcolm's motivations were the most far stretched. You hear your wife die (and feel guilty because you didn't answer her call for help) and you want revenge on those that killed her. I get that. I really get that. Making the jump that hundreds of people need to die is way too illogical that it helped make Malcolm feel more cartoon and less cary to me.

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  38. Egads, Oliver has a son in the comics! Let's hope that doesn't come to pass in Arrow. I can't imagine that being anything but a nightmare of a plotline. My hope is that they get off the island quickly because it usually bores me and the idea of Oliver rising in a Russian gang sounds a lot more interesting.

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  39. Ha! Thanks. I have no idea what the writers are planning for Slade, but there seems to be some consensus that he will eventually turn evil. I guess he is Deadshot in the comics, or something like that. I don't particularly want an evil Slade to begin with but one turned that way by a love triangle sounds like such a mangling of a great character, I might actually weep for him.


    I also am often criticised for criticizing shows I like, but that is part of reviewing a show. If you only talk about the good things and avoid the bad, it limits conversation and ultimately does the show a disservice. No one gets better with a constant stream of flattery and there are always ways to improve. I think that fans who give honest feedback about both the good and bad are the best fans to be honest.

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  40. Yes but if they shoot, they are going to hit their own people as well. Bullets can travel through a person's body and out the other side. They cannot afford to shoot. They would have done better to have cornered him, not surrounded him.

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  41. I agree this is survivor's guilt but I also think Oliver has reasoning to justify his guilt to himself.

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  42. I would love to hear more about Slade's backstory. I didn't know he had a wife and kid until people commented about it here. I think it would be interesting to see him dealing with missing his family, especially since Yao Fei gave Oliver so much grief over his picture of Laurel. It also could give extra shades of meaning to his slam on Oliver about Shado. Maybe it isn't jealousy over Shado and Oliver getting together as much as it is that he is jealous that he can't be with his wife. That would make the dialogue a lot more poignant and meaningful. Hmm, I like this interpretation so I hope they will go there. If Slade does have to go evil in a trite way, then I would hope it has something to do with his family back home instead of Shado or Oliver.


    I am looking forward to Laurel's Black Canary storyline as well. At this point I think ti is the easiest way to redeem Laurel's character and still make her relevant to the overall Arrow plot. Here's hoping they accelerate that timeline this season.

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  43. Stephen said in an interview that Laurel won't continue her vengeance against the Hood for long, and the only reasons I can see her moving on to her next target are either him saving her and her having seconds thoughts or her finding out his secret. I think her downward spiral will continue afterwards though judging by the spoilers of her joining the prosecution team in Moira's case and such.

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  44. I think she'll either become the Black Canary (while the current one is named Canary) or they'll decide to keep the current Canary and turn Laurel evil instead. At the current state, Laurel could also become a good villain, so I'll personally be okay with both options.

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  45. It does seem more contrived to make a pretty ending picture than to add real tension. We know they are not going to unmask Oliver this early so they cannot keep him for long. For me the big discussion about this cliffhanger is more, which trick arrow is he going to use to easily extract himself. My bet is on a smoke bomb of some kind combined with the one he uses to swing around Spider-Man style. However he could use a trick arrow we haven't seen yet. I'll be kind of disappointed if Black Canary 1.0 shows up to bail him out, since this should be a breeze for the Hood. I think the hardest part will be getting over the fact that Laurel actually went through with her threat and that she pulled a fast one on him.

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  46. Ugh yes, the CW. It's part of what's making Tomorrow People difficult for me as well.

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  47. I never did get comic book names and turnover. As long as we don't get Pink Canary I am good. (That's too much like PowerRangers for me.) I have to say that Laurel going evil could be a very interesting storyline and it would certainly make her intriguing. I doubt they will go that way since she and Oliver are supposed to be the heroes, but if she were drugged or manipulated into being evil for awhile, I could definitely enjoy it. For the record, either Felicity or Diggle becoming evil would be intriguing to me as well.

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  48. That's a good plan on the show's part then. It might be too early for her to find out about the Hood then, especially if she's targeting Moira. Of course, just by being on the prosecution in her trial does not mean that she's vindictive towards her. She does work for the DA and this would be the highest profile case they've probably ever had. I would expect her to be a part of it. Hopefully she is not bitter towards Moira, although she would have much more reason to be than she does with the Hood.

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  49. I haven't started watching that show yet but since it was written by Julie Plec, not really sure I should since I don't want to have another "TVD triangle/every shape show" repeat. :/

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  50. Love geometry seems to be her specialty. Currently TTP is going for the standard triangle, but I see a rectangle for sure in their future.

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  51. It's much more interesting for me when someone we see as good suddenly becomes the big bad. That's one of the many things I love in Whedon's shows.

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  52. Just the point I'm trying to make. Character developments like that usually require more than one event to bring them about. Long-lasting anger and hatred usually also take a long period of time and multiple events for them to build up, with that one final event just being the "final straw" which causes the subject's "psychotic break." So, Malcolm's reaction would be understandable if his wife's death had been just the last in a series of negative experiences which he could blame on the people of the Glades. Perhaps, if his marriage had previously already been suffering because his wife devoted all of her time to helping those "miscreants" in the Glades... Unfortunately, though, this show tends to always trace motivations to a singe triggering event. I guess I'm probably just expecting too much from a show that is an adaption of a comic book, huh?

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  53. Slade briefly mentioned his son Joe (Billy was his Godfather) and I don't remember if he mentioned his wife in S1 or not, but in those cards that were around this site, it said that he left his wife and son, presuming him dead. I'm probably giving the CW too much credit, but wouldn't it be a nice change of pace to NOT have another love triangle, but instead Slade just missing his family/feeling like a third wheel? It would be a novelty, but I'm afraid I'm probably wrong.


    There are a lot of reasons to go evil that have nothing to do with love interests. What if Slade or Oliver do something the other doesn't agree with? Slade could do something Oliver finds morally wrong and they have a falling out. Slade could blame Oliver for getting off the island without him (before he was rescued)/doing something that stops Slade from leaving, etc. Or maybe someone's actions get Shado killed and hating the other has nothing to do with fighting over her, but instead blaming the other for her death (I'd rather not go the Tommy route again and fridge a female character, but you get the picture).


    I'm actually kinda excited about seeing the show develop Laurel's BC storyline, but they need to get a move on already, before the entire fandom hates her. Roy is well on his way to be a side kick, I'd love to see Laurel finding out BC's identity, which might cause her to rethink what she thinks of vigilantes and then maybe start training with the Black Canary. I think her storyline could definitely have potential, we'll see how they approach it.

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  54. I am all for him going evil without the love interests as well. I also thought of Oliver getting off the island but Slade getting stuck there as a potential reason. I could see something happening in the Russian mob as well, where Slade thinks Oliver betrayed him about something. Both of these are more exciting possibilities than love triangles. I am going to bet that Shado has something to do with it though. Probably through her death like you suggest.


    I hope BC is someone Laurel knows well, maybe a college roommate or something. That would give them an instant bond which would make Laurel taking over as BC if the first one dies more plausible. I agree that Laurel needs to move in this direction quickly because the hate is spreading fast after this episode. I love the idea of Laurel training to be a hero as well. That gives her more kicking butt scenes and less scenes for them to hurt the character further.

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  55. I agree, but first the audience needs to like the "good" character for it to be effective. I don't think Laurel is there yet, which is why having Felicity or Diggle go that route could be awesome. Risky for sure, but interesting.

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  56. Deathstroke, I believe.

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  57. There are definitely tons of more exciting possibilities for their epic breakup, that isn't about love interests/love triangle. I'd rather Shado not die for it to happen- not only do I like her, but I'm sick and tired of fridging women for angst and male development. It's why I'm annoyed whenever someone says "Thea needs to die for Roy to be a hero", because no, she doesn't. There are so many things you can do with Thea that don't involve dying, like her becoming Oliver's sidekick, after Roy decides to stop being a sidekick and becomes his own hero.


    I think we're going to find out BC's identity soon, but If you don't know, I'd avoid spoilers. I'd rather BC take Laurel under her wing and train her, rather than Oliver- because eventually I want her to be his equal, so I don't want her to ever be his protege. I don't know what the writers were thinking when they made Laurel blame the Hood for Tommy's death- were they TRYING to get fandom to hate her even more? They seriously need to get a move on with her storyline, cause already there are people hoping she dies and this new Black Canary stays.

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  58. (Facepalm) - Deathstroke, of course. Dead Shot is the one Diggle is after. Since I don't read comics, I often get all these villains mixed up. Thanks!


    I actually don't cry at TV either. However, I might want to if they mess Slade up.

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  59. While I tend to like lots of action in my TV, I agree that stepping back a bit and making the villains more plausible would have helped season 1. In fact, more realistic villains is in my top 10 Arrow wish list. By not building them up like you suggest, many of the recurring villains felt like cartoon characters and although this is based off of a comic, that's not a plus. I hope they give Blood some real depth this year since I think he will be a Big Bad.

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  60. Thanks! Do you know if Black Canary 1.0 the same one from the comics?

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  61. I understand the feeling. I'd probably be tempted to fling my laptop at the wall. I might reconsider that, though, because weeping is probably cheaper :))

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  62. Exactly.
    Oliver is one smoke bomb arrow and one arrow pulley away from being removed from the situation.

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  63. Thea can't die. Period. They already killed off one of their best actors in Tommy. They can't afford to kill off the best remaining main actor. In this show I am okay with them killing off a female character (not Thea) but only because they already killed off Tommy. It is not lopsided yet.


    I just read who BC is supposed to be so I am nervous about what this means for both Laurel and Oliver. I agree about Laurel NOT being Oliver's protege. That would make the relationship unbalanced and quite frankly less interesting if Oliver doesn't have to work at knowing Laurel's secret identity as well.

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  64. Sorry, I tried to read Laurel's section but couldn't. I want to like her too,i do, but every time i hear her name or read it for that matter, i just roll my eyes or cringe, haha I'll try harder next time. As for Felicity she has grown, but i still don't see why she still has a crush on Ollie is a bad thing. People of all ages have crushes, at least she's not saying she loves him behind his back. And she's not really throwing it in his face. So i don't see the big deal, he's also not commenting on it and idt he even knows she has a thing for him. I mean hell even Diggle, doesn't know and him and her have gotten a lot closer. I love Diggle, and i want to see more of him with Felicity in this season. I love when they team up w/o Oliver you can really see their friendship and how they stick up for one another. As for Roy, oh man when he finds out Ollie is The Hood, well Arrow, i will jump for joy! That will be very exciting. And i did love Oliver's line "You can take a beating." I laughed so hard at that. I literally said, "Well if you train him, he'll be giving out beatings more than taking them." And you're right, Oliver can easily get out of that trap, lmao But i still felt it was an intense scene. If anything it just made me dislike Laurel even more.

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  65. Well he already banged her, so its just a matter of time.

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  66. While I agree that Felicity always sprouted lines like this, I think they have to be careful there. Too much ship-tease can overwhelm the character.

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  67. Thank you for putting it in words...it is really the motivation which doesn't work, and that Laurel suddenly turned into someone, who doesn't care for anything but her own revenge.
    And honestly, how does the explanation "you were too late" fit with her "Tommy had to die because he ended up between two archers" line from the episode before? The Glades would have been levelled weather the Hood has been there or not.

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  68. I can't imagine Oliver doing that in front Blood... If he does, then I would have to say he's spending too much time with Felicity lol

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  69. I was trying to avoid mentioning the identity of BC, in case you didn't know. I'm hesitant about it, but if handled right it could be a very good storyline for everyone involved and might make Laurel change her mind about how she views vigilantes. We need to see how they do it. In the comics, Laurel was the second BC, after her mom, so I really don't mind her not being the first on the show to don the outfit. I'm pretty optimistic about everyone's storylines this season (as long as they don't do a love triangle on the island) so I'm just going to wait and see where the writers take it.

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  70. I think you hit the nail on the head with Felicity. I find her likeable, as most other viewers. In fact, I think she is written to be a likeable character, a kind of "everyman"/ordinary girl that most viewers can identify with. Therefore it's not strange that she has become such a fan favourite. However, I feel that that in some parts of fandom Felicity has been put on such a pedestal that the fall is going to be rather hard when/if her popularity wanes. In fact, among some tumblr "Olicity" fangirls she is so idolized that I'm expecting her to be canonized as "St. Felicity" sometime soon!;-). This blog entry is pretty representative of how some "oliciters" exaggerate Felicity's importance on the show and in Oliver's life to the point where I have to ask myself if we're watching the same show:

    I also am totally on board with disliking Oliver whenever he’s in Laurel’s orbit. The exact opposite happens with Felicity. She is good for him. Not only because she brings light to his darkness, but she also brings reason and thought to his mission. She makes him take stock of everything instead of narrowly focusing on what these people are suspected of doing. She makes him think. She makes him a hero and not a vigilante. end of quote


    These are the same bloggers/fans who can't find ANYTHING positive about "the ex-girlfriend" (who by now probably has been upgraded to "the psycho ex-girlfriend"!) and who will perform great rhetorical acrobatics to prove that it's better that Oliver forgets Laurel altogether and instead falls in love with the totally awesome and wonderful Felicity, so that they can consummate "their epic love story" (actual quote from a tumblr blogger!). It's probably these gals who find Felicity's sexual innuendos "oh so cute" , rather than somewhat embarrasing or annoying, as you do. I thought Felicity's social awkwardness and verbal blunders were charming in the beginning, but as you pointed out, in later episodes the "ship tease" became too transparent, which made them seem contrived rather than spontaneous and funny. And if the writers are not going to follow up with a serious Oliver/Felicity romance, I don't see the need to have Felicity fangirling and crushing over Oliver either, especially since her "crush" doesn't feel very convincing in my eyes.



    I'm probably biased, because I like Laurel and I find the Laurel/Oliver relationship interesting, but I think that also the average non-shipper viewers have a more balanced view on Felicity and the Felicity/Oliver relationship than the most vocal Internet shippers. And even if the Laurel/Oliver romance doesn't work for some viewers, I don't think that the solution is to hook Oliver up with Felicity, since there is no guarantee that Oliver and Felicity as lovers will make more sense from a plot perspective or that it will be more fun to watch than the more Platonic relationship they have right now. I have read quite a few commentators who don't feel any sensual tension or UST between Oliver and Felicity, and who are perfectly content to have them in the friendship zone, so it's a bit of an exaggeration to claim that ALL "Arrow" viewers feel the chemistry, as some "Olicity" shippers do.

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  71. Nice for you...I honestly have no idea who Summer Glau even is, or why she is apparently such a big deal and from the totally uninfluenced point of view, I think it is very telling that I can't even remember the name of her character, it's just "the one Summer Glau plays". Which tells me a lot. But then, there was only one episode, there is still time to built her up. But so far...her character is a non-entity. Doesn't disturb, doesn't add. And I actually have a hard time to believe that what is basically a family company would put so many shares on the open market in the first place.

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  72. I honestly thought that Oliver was really annoying this episode, too. He could at least talked to Felicity before forcing her into a new job. He was stupid to deal with Blood at all, or to move into Laurel's crossfire after their talk at the grave. Honestly the thing Felicity chew him out for, not noticing that Digg was avoiding talking about Carly, is the one thing which didn't bother me all that much, because he does have a lot on his plate currently.
    I currently like Oliver and Felicity so much as friends that I don't want them to be romantic partners.

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  73. As far as I know, in the Comics Shado basically raped Oliver and then claimed the son for herself...so there isn't much kid-raising connected to this storyline.

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  74. No, it's not Laurel's mother. It is someone we supposedly know though although none of us would've recognized her..

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  75. I wouldn't expect her to be part of the team that asks for death penalty for Moira because she knows Moira and it's a conflict of interests, not to mention how could she.. and I personally will be fine with someone else finding out Oliver's identity now considering the only live sane people that know his secret today are Felicity and Diggle (I added the sane part because the Count might remember his face too.)

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  76. Funny you don't know who BC is. Have you been trying to avoid spoilers? :) Let's say she is someone Laurel knows well, but probably not that well..

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  77. I hope Canary 1.0 is a good enough actress. If she is, I think there are lots of possibilities and the spoilers I read sound interesting. From what I gathered, she was forced to join an assassins team unwillingly, is trying to run away from them, and can't openly reveal herself to her family because that would make them targets as well. I think Oliver and her would have a lot to talk about but I hope they don't follow the romantic route.. not again

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  78. I think Laurel just stopped caring after Tommy's death. It's not just her going after the Hood but also, what happened to defending the little people from the system? Instead she went and joined the system and pulled 180 in that too.

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  79. It would be a lie to say that I particularly liked her self-righteousness during the first season, but at least she had a reason to have this "holier than you" attitude considering that she spend her days helping people in need instead of taking a cushy job, often risking her life in the process (honestly, how did she survive before Oliver came back?). But paired with her current attitude, it is really grating.
    But I think my main problem with her character is that she doesn't feel real to me. Laurel 1.0 was in a way too perfect, but Laurel 2.0 makes no sense whatsoever. And honestly, her problems still bore me. I actually don't care how she feels concerning Tommy because I am still angry with her for even being in the Glades in the first place. And yes, I know, it's unreasonable, I should blame the writers for thinking up such a stupid reason to put her in danger. But her blaming the Hood on the grounds of to flimsy reasons makes the whole thing even worse.

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  80. " think that if the original Black Canary..."



    so they're changing the origin story for this character too. figures...

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  81. Rectangle? Where's the fourth element come from?

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  82. I am going to see how they play Laurel and Moira during the trial before I can judge. There are too many dynamics and different ways they can go with it. I actually have little problem with Oliver's alterego becoming known by a wider group as well. It's going to have to happen for Roy to develop and I suspect the same for Thea and Laurel as well.

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  83. I am a complete comic illiterate but I am pretty sure that there were more than one Black Canary in the comics as well.

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  84. Astrid. There's no way she goes love geometry free.

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  85. Good point. It can also cause a major backlash on the character from fans who do not ship.

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  86. Great post. I think a lot of what you say makes sense. Since I do not back either 'ship, it is of supreme importance to me that the overall plot drive the story and not any segment of the fandom. I have actually been a part of a fandom that got its way and lived to regret it. Since then I have been very leery of fan pandering at the expense of the creative team's vision. I also feel that putting Felicity on a pedstal will not do her character any favors in the long run and while she remains my favorite main character (along with Thea), make her saint will make her character completely uninteresting.

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  87. Oliver wasn't winning any awards for brilliance here, you're right. That whole "secret identity roles" conversation was a little hard to take in the middle of a high rise as well. The whole thing should have been moved to the basement. When I first watched the episode, I could have sworn that they deleted a scene setting the whole thing up.

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  88. I will just hope that this is another thing the Arrow world ignores fromt eh comics then.

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  89. Egads, no wonder I don't read the comics! I like Shado the way she is. No need for a rapist spin. Hopefully the whole kid thing will never surface.

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  90. I agree it has the potential of being very powerful. i hope that it helps character growth instead of a renewed triangle or lots of passive agressive bickering. It will be a real testament to the wirters and being able to trust them if they can make this progressive storyline and not treat anyone one-dimensionally.

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  91. I have avoided all Arrow spoilers since the huge drama of Black Canary being brought on this summer. I didn't have time for meltdowns and with starting a new job and increasing my TV work load here at SpoilerTV and elsewhere, I didn't have time. I have since looked up who BC is and I find it very intriguing. This character has the potential to be a very good plot line or it could turn Arrow into a soppy, soapy mess. I look forward to seeing what the writers do with her. It will tell me an awful lot about what to expect next.

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  92. That does sound intriguing. You may get me to start reading Arrow spoilers yet. Currently I am very selective about which shows I am spoiled for.

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  93. Bwah! They have seriously underestimated Oliver's lack of self-preservation then.

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  94. I think we will see that Laurel does still care in future episodes. My guess is that she thinks what she did in season 1 did not make a difference and by pursuing vigilantes and working for the prosecution, she can make a much bigger impact. I doubt her concern for the people is gone, but it is being tempered with anger, guilt, and hopelessness. I think she is after the same things but drastically changing her approach. Of course the next few episodes will show if this is indeed the case.

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  95. Working for the prosecution could be Laurel trying to put away the bad guys she was ultimately trying to protect the "little people" from. I'm not giving up on Laurel trying to be a champion of the people. I just think that she thinks she can be moe effective at it in the prosecutor's office.

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  96. The self-righeousness combined with hypocrisy put me off Laurel completely in season 1 so I find season 2 Laurel a positive change. She is more confusing right now but for me that makes her interesting and leaves me wanting to know more about her character changes. I do care about how she feels abotu Tommy, mostly because if they had to take my favorite recurring character away from me last season, people darn well better be feeling the effects of his loss this season. Tommy deserves that at least. However, they do need to strengthen Laurel's motives more because they are doing the character no favors right now. Surprisingly to me since last year I wanted them to fix Laurel or kill her, either one, this season I think they need to devote more time to her so we can see things from her point of view. That's the only way she is going to be more sympathetic,

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  97. Oh yes. I forgot about her.

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  98. I disagree there...in my experience, you can do nothing worse with a character who misfired at the first try than constantly showing him or her down the throat of the audience. What they need to do is giving her one or two small scenes in every episode, in which she interacts with as many people from the cast as possible, but allow her to blend a little bit in the background for now. Let her develop more naturally.

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  99. Thanks! I kinda like the mother daughter duo in the comics. I checked IMDB like Dahne said -- I can't wait to hear how Sara survived and where she has been.

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  100. yes buuuut (and i'm not saying anything cuz i'm not sure if it would b considered spoilers or irrelevant or something)

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  101. I think she was saved by the league of assasains and then forced to join them. I have high hopes for this character and I hope I like her.

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  102. You and me both. The fact that she is a kick butt female gives her a great start. The fact that she was last seen dying after sleeping with her sister's boyfriend does not. Here's hoping they make her someone we can root for. Or a Big Bad, actually. Either would be interesting.

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  103. I think the writers need to make a choice and soon. If Laurel is going to continue to be a main character, then this year they have to go for it. Make her important, give her multiple character interactions, give her a main storyline that weaves throughout the season. If not, they might as well kill her off and make her an angsting plot device. I don't think they can make her a minor character and have it be worth it.

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  104. It's not like Thea had whole episodes centred around her, or Moira, and they are both important characters. I think the audience needs a break from Laurel, the chance to get to like her, and not constant overexposure. Which means, they have to stop to make it all about her.

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  105. Laurel really bothers me. I never liked her in season one. She was, as you say, a wishy washy character. Funny, but I just finished watching ep 2.02 and the first things that came to mind was: Why does she want to hunt down the hood because he did not save Tommy? Totally strange reason.
    Okay, she delivered her speech quite convincingly, but why would she condemn the Hood out of a sudden for this? As you say, it was not his fault Tommy died. (Actually I really liked Tommy and was totally shocked that they killed him off). And Laurel was quite taken with the Hood in season 1.

    You say you cannot see romance apart from Thea and Roy. I would love to see Felicity and Oliver together. She is the woman that keeps him grounded. She knows his secret and copes with it. She is smart, kind and absolutely gorgeous. I think Oliver would be mad not to notice.

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