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Arrow - 2.01 - City of Heroes - Character Review

Oct 13, 2013

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Note - Generally I do recaps with review mixed in. This is my first attempt at a straight up review (and even it isn't like most of them) so I am sure I will be tweaking the process as I go. Today the focus is on characters.

Vigilante, hero. Hero, vigilante. Often times it is in the eye of the beholder and to Oliver Queen, vigilante is now synonymous with Tommy's death. Thus sets up a paradigm shift in Arrow. Last season he was fulfilling his dead father's wishes in a righteous vengeance, but now it rings hollow. Oliver: "My mission, my father's list…it was a fool's crusade and I failed. Malcolm Merlyn destroyed the Glades…Tommy died, and the Hood couldn't stop it, so don't ask me to put it on again….ever." 5 months later, Oliver is still reeling from his best friend's death and it has shaken him to the core - which is a very good thing, at least in the season 2 premiere. This Oliver is more considerate, more conscientious of the results of his actions, more willing to apologize and reconsider. It's a more thoughtful Oliver, but one reeling for purpose, a purpose he finds in saving his father's company from a hostile takeover. I find this Oliver much more appealing and layered. Stephen Amell had plenty of material to show his improved acting skills, making the most of the opportunity.

However, Oliver isn't the only one transformed by the incident. It also means job changes for Laurel, Quentin, Thea, and Roy. Laurel trades the optimistic do-gooder reputation of the CNRC for life in the prosecutor's office. Her main goal is now finding and bringing down the Hood, whom she blames for Tommy's death. (Instead of say, going back for paperwork.) Vengeance motivates her but it is really the deep-seated guilt she feels that drives her actions. While she and Oliver have two touching scenes together, they agree that out of respect to Tommy's memory they cannot be together although they will always be a part of the other's life. For the most part these scenes do a good job of lingering in the emotional wreckage of two people struggling to change the essence of who they have been without falling headlong into melodrama, a far cry better than most of their scenes together last season. It's a positive sign since the way they wrote Laurel last year had many fans failing to connect with her character. Here's hoping the job change and some concentrated effort by the writers change that this season.

Meanwhile Quentin has been demoted. Originally I thought this would make him even more bitter, but it seems that coming to terms with helping the Hood agrees with him. He's happier and it may allow him greater freedom to interact with the characters. Anything that utilizes Paul Blackthorne more is a change for the better. I anticipate him working even closer with the Hood now that he is under less scrutiny. I hope they do not reinstate him to detective any time soon and that he gets to interact with more characters. The biggest positive change though is that neither of his scenes with Laurel made me want to shoot them both, a vast improvement from last year and a major item on my wish list. I like this new father-daughter dynamic and I hope they stay away from hypocritical shrieking and manipulation this season.

The one character change I am iffy about is Thea. While I like that the writers seem to have a better grasp on her character this year, I still cannot buy her as the owner and manager of a nightclub she can't even drink in. Likely the Arrow staff will skip these concerns, but it will be a sticking point for awhile for me. I do like that having her at Verdant gives her a better chance of interacting with other characters like Diggle and Felicity though. Essentially it puts her right in the center of the action, so I think she will uncover Oliver's secret this year. In fact, I find it hard to believe that she doesn't have some clue already given that Felicity completely transformed the Arrow Cave on Verdant property. Hrm. Thea and Roy's relationship is another iffy item. I like how they clearly know each other well, but the constant fighting over Roy's own heroics will get old fast. It's another reason to get Thea in the know quickly. Another items that puzzles me is Thea being okay with Oliver abandoning her to bear the brunt of hostility alone. It could not have been easy to be named Queen in the months after the earthquake and I hope we get more perspective on this in the future. The fact that she spends so much time in the Glades makes it even harder to believe she wasn't targeted. Her reaction to Moira though feels spot-on. I love how it took the possibility of death to make her understand her mom's perspective and the scene between her and Moira at the prison was beautiful. I also love the scene where Roy opens up about his parents and calls Thea out on how withholding her love from her mom is hurting her too. All in all, everything involving Moira is fantastic, whether she is present for it or not.

Unlike the other characters, Diggle seems very much the same. It should be interesting to see if the show is going to address how the earthquake affected him gradually or if he will be largely unaffected because he saw so much horror in the military. Felicity on the other hand continues her downward slide into apathy about the body count. Lilith and I mentioned this nonchalance in the podcast last season but she flat out says it in the premiere. Oliver: "There's a part of being the Hood that neither one of you are considering, the body count." Felicity: "And excuse me for saying this but so what?" That's a cold and jaded Felicity that I hope isn't her new post-earthquake personality. Originally, she was the conscience of Team Arrow and now, well….there's no one. It's interesting that as Oliver struggles to follow his conscience for Tommy, Felicity is more pragmatic about killing. Hope springs eternal though as it is Felicity who says, "Maybe there's another way."

City of Heroes feels like the Arrow staff preparing the audience for a season where they too are going another way. They seem to have taken criticism from last season and used the earthquake as a logical way to reboot the main characters. Without the finale destruction and jumping forward 5 months, this plan would have felt too jarring. Instead the changes seem natural and allow the show to expand. As an action junky who sometimes finds big character episodes tedious, kudos to all involved for a great premiere and a good mix of everything that makes Arrow entertaining. I am excited to see where they are leading us, and isn't that the hallmark of a good premiere?

Grade: B+, which is high marks indeed if you know me


Episode Awards:

Best Scene - Thea and Moira at the prison.
-This scene was touching because it marked a change in their relationship. Plus both actors nailed the emotion in a way that wasn't too melodramatic and yet charged with emotion.

Most Important Scene - Oliver kills Shado's kidnapper
-While I usually hate the island flashbacks, this was a solid winner. It also gave me hope that we would be moving at a faster island pace this season. While I am just guessing at this point, I think killing a person in rage is the first huge step toward Oliver becoming the Hood and will transform his personality almost instantly.

Most Improved Character - Oliver
-Oliver with more of a conscience was high on my season 2 wish list.

Worst Version of a Character - Felicity teen crushing on Oliver
-I like Felicity as a character...a lot, but the creepy, sexual harassment statements have got to stop.  She can be quirky without sounding like a freaking stalker.  It's hard to take her as an equal partner in Team Arrow when they keep adding these lines in.

Best Cameo - Walter
-Walter returning was #3 on that wish list. I love that he hints for Oliver to call on him in the future too because that makes it more likely we will keep seeing him.

Biggest Logic Leave - Thea as manager of Verdant.

Best Snit - Hoods leader sulking because Oliver returning got all the media attention instead of his mayoral assassination. Bwah! Even criminals want paparazzi.


Biggest Ewww! - Felicity vomits on camera. Was that really necessary?

Best speech - Oliver saying that he cannot dishonor Tommy's memory anymore

Funniest Scene - Diggle and Felicity heading to the island

MVP - tie - parachutes and shoddy glasswork
- I agree Felicity. I think you were safer jumping out of that plane than staying in it. Plus if Queen Consolidated didn't skimp on the windows, you and Oliver would be toast. Still I think it is time for an office makeover. This isn't the first time someone has been able to crash right in.


Most Kick Butt and Spoilery - Masked blonde chick who saves Roy. If you don't already know who she is, you missed one heck of a fan uproar over the summer. Good on you.

Most Missed - Tommy. Just consider him a lock on the category all season.

Best Reason to Watch - Hmm, that is a tough one. I'm going with to see how they deal with the aftermath of the explosive finale. (Or to see if it measured up.)


Screencaps by Screencapped.net 

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41 comments:

  1. So what did you think of this episode? I enjoyed the character shifts, especially since they mostly seem natural for each character. Here's hoping Walter will keep recurring and that we get some Thea and Walter scenes.

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  2. Great review! I liked your analysis of each character, and I have to say I agree with you in pretty much everything. So, quick notes:


    - Laurel, how long until she realizes that hunting the other archer isn't the solution to her problems?
    - Quentin, it's funny, I also watch Person of Interest, and in both shows a detective began chasing the hero/vigilante, only to change their minds and start to work with them, resulting in being demoted to officers this current season. I'm looking forward to see him interact more with Team Arrow.
    - Thea, running a night club?....ok, fine, as long as she becomes useful somehow. And I suspect the Arrow cave has another entrance, that's probably how Felicity managed to improve it.
    - Moira, I said it in your poll before, both of her scenes with her children were fantastic.
    - Diggle and Felicity, together were great. But I agree with you on Felicity, her crush was somehow cute in S1, but now, not so much. I know it's fanservice, but maybe tone down the creepiness.
    - It was great to see Walter back, both Oliver and Thea are still young and inexperienced when it comes to business and other things, with Moira in prison, they need another adult to rely on.


    Ok, my notes weren't so quick, but I got really into this show, I've never expected for it happen, but it did, and I'm glad to share my thoughs here, and to read what others think.

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  3. I am so glad you are sharing your thoughts as well. Feel free to write as much as you want because the more you write, the more discussion we can have. I do not do concise myself. My guess is that Laurel changes her mind about the Hood either at the midseason finale or the season 2 finale. It seems like a pretty good cliffhanger if she finds out about Oliver. I don't think she will still be pursuing the Hood in season 3 for sure.


    I too watch PoI and I am finding that the demotion is working for me in both, although maybe a bit more so in Arrow since I am positive that Carter will be back to detective standing before too long and they are actually missing out on info since she has been demoted. Quentin's demotion feels like it will give him more freedom, not less.


    I hope that both Moira in prison and Walter outside of it help the Queens on a regular basis. They both have good information and it is a plausible way to keep both of them on my screen. It would be a shame to lose either one.


    I also was unsure of whether I would like Arrow last year and was pleasantly surprised when I got hooked into the characters. Then after that amazing season 1 finale, it became the show I was most looking forward to coming back. So far I like what they are doing.

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  4. Wow, maybe it's only me but i didn't found Felicity creepy lol they probably have to start cutting some of those lines yeah, but calling her creepy... not to me (maybe not seeing him in 4? 5? months had something to do with her response? lol)

    I completely forgot about Walter -shame on me i love him and i love how Isabel stood up the moment he entered- and during that conversation between Oliver and Moira I was wondering... does Oliver have another relative? Like an uncle or something? when Walter came in I was like OF COURSE! lol

    I'm also curious about Diggle not reacting, but yes, I think you're probably right, he's seen so much.

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  5. They went overboard with the Felicity stalker thing in this episode. She is now a full member of Team Arrow and to continue it weakens her character a lot in my opinion. She can still be quirky but if she is going to be a partner, she has to cut out the sexual harassment banter. It's beyond old and does not come off as cute like it somewhat did when she did not know Olvier but only had a crush on him from afar.


    I actually loved that line by Moira because I was 99% sure that I was going to get a Walter appearance at that time. Like you say, it was either Walter or mysterious uncle we had never met. I adore Walter scenes, especially with Thea, so I hope we get more.


    It does feel like they ar going for a "already seen too much" tone with Diggle, but I think it would be interesting if we saw small changes in him post-earthquake that they could explore more fully in a Diggle-centric episode. I would really like to have a few episodes that concentrated mostly on other characters like Diggle, Felicity, Thea, and Roy. Even a Moira-centric episode would be awesome.

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  6. I agree they have to start developing "side-characters", we don't really know much about most of them, and more are coming into scene (Black Canary, Isabel Rochev, Barry Allen...) and i'm concerned about the characters we already "know" backgrounds. I hope they have a plan involving that.
    From some spoilers about the 2nd episode posted here, Felicity's not going to be amused about her new position, so i'm looking forward to some good lines against Oliver lol
    And I forgot to say before that I fail to see Laurel's logic into blaming the Hood. It was nice seeing her kicking ass though.

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  7. I really disagree with more or less everything you said about Felicity...for one, her "so what" is more a "cut the BS and tell us what bothers you" and not a "just go and kill how many you want" moment. I LOVE the fact that she threw up...it's those little details which make her so much more approachable and real than Laurel (who easily had the worst scene with her idiotic "he ended up between two archers" speech...Tommy survived standing between the two Archers JUST FINE, what he didn't survive were her stupidity).
    I agree that they should tone down the fanservice for the olicity fans...one reason Felicity works so well is because she is first and foremost a good friend. That is the point they should emphasis. I enjoy their interactions as they are way too much to want them to move forward too fast.

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  8. My take on Laurel's logic is that she needs somebody to blame. Since Malcolm, hence one of the archers, is dead, she blames the other one, who knows why, when her father could've told her that the Hood had tried to stop the earthquake, but in the end, I think she'll come to realize that she blames herself for Tommy's death (well, it's a little bit her fault, she wasn't suppose to be there that night) and she'll stop chasing the Hood. It's just a theory, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

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  9. she would probably stop going after the hood if the hood save her from some bad guys or something.....

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  10. I thoroughly enjoyed Laurel saving her boss. I like that this was pretty much our opening moment with her, signaling hopefully a change in the way they write her character. For me, since Laurel and Oliver are sometimes my least favorite characters, concentrating at least some of the time on the "side-characters" is a big plus.


    I look forward to Felicity wit. It's one of my favorite things about her. I am hoping that she interacts with a lot more characters this season instead of primarily with Oliver and then Diggle. I'd love to see what Thea makes of her.

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  11. As with most things, we seem to agree and disagree equally.
    - I agree that Thea's character change is for the better but getting her there required too big a lapse in sense and reason. I'm just going to have to suck it up and move on.
    - Everything you mentioned about Quentin was spot-on, except for the fact that our opinions strongly differ regarding his scenes with Laurel throughout S1. I thought their relationship (the good, the bad, and the fugly) was well-written and progressed nicely throughout the run.
    - Diggle does seem the same and I see that as a potential problem. Diggle is already an understated and reasonable supporting character and when a character like that doesn't grow they become predictable and boring. That's the last thing I want for Diggle.
    - Felicity's abrupt abandonment of her objections to lethal force last season didn't sit well with me either but I'm glad she admitted her lapse in judgment in the premiere.
    - I object to the idea that there is no one acting as the conscience of Team Arrow when Oliver seemed more than eager to appoint himself to that position throughout the premiere. Whether that'll work out is another matter altogether.
    - Your characterization of Felicity's behavior is, in my opinion, off base. Acceptable behavior is mainly relative and when the target of that behavior (Oliver) seems consistently amused by it all, it seems overly fastidious to condemn it, especially when it's played for laughs and part of the character's function is to provide that levity.
    - Finally, there's Tommy. I don't think we'll ever agree about much regarding Tommy. I think dedicating crusade #2 to him is as much a fools errand as doing it for his own father was. I'm also a little dismayed at the show's revisionist history. Tommy was the one who apologized and admitted fault before he passed. It seems that Oliver (and Arrow by extension) is picking and choosing which version of Tommy they want to remember for character motivation to start season two.
    - It wasn't brought up but I'd like to say that this new "no killing" creed is a bunch of sunshine-and-rainbows comic book nonsense. It's fine that Oliver and Co. want to prioritize bringing people to justice over taking lives but when people do what Team Arrow does people will get hurt and occasionally some will die. If Arrow still wants to keep a grasp on realism, positing the idea that it will never again be necessary to kill should be debunked in short order.

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  12. I agree. Ultimately she blames herself, but the Hood makes a good scapegoat. Although it is ultimately Malcolm's fault Tommy died, for me Laurel going for files helped to kill him so I can see why she blames herself. I think she will stop chasing the Hood as she herself gets more gray area as a character or when she finds out that Oliver is the Hood. I don't see this as a Lois Lane thing where the secret drags on forever.

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  13. Possibly but I think it is going to be something more dramatic that ends her quest.

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  14. I think that Felicity has gotten more and more desensitized to the fact that Oliver killed people as the season went on. It became a discussion point in the DVMPE Arrow podcast because multiple people saw an attitude shift in her. For some people this could be a good thing, but for me, she loses her position as the group's conscience and a bit of her innocence by doing so. This could be a positive character growth thing as the season continues, but right now I miss that old Felicity who called Oliver out on his violent tendencies.


    I would have been perfectly fine to hear Felicity vomiting or even to have it mentioned after it happened. I object to having to see it. That was gross. I do agree that Laurel had a hand in Tommy's death, even though it is ultimately Malcolm everyone should be angry with.

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  15. I think the fact that we always agree and disagree is why I love discussing TV with you. :-) Without rehashing too many of our disagreements last year, I will say that Quentin and Laurel interactions last season made me dislike both of them every single time and is a big part of why I did not Laurel at all. While the writing was crisp, neither party came off looking good and I think that is the main difference in how we watch TV. I need to at least like the characters a little while you have more patience with their slow growth. I hope that both of us end up liking this new Lance family dynamic this year. Father-daughter relationships on TV are make or break for me a lot of time so it would go a long way to redeeming Laurel's character for me if she and Quentin could continue to mostly relate to each other as adults and not screaming children.


    I am concerned that the character I had least to say about in this premiere was Diggle. My bigger concern is that he becomes obsolete because he doesn't change. I would like to see him get a meaty storyline this season, because I thought he got shafted some last season, especially towards the end. I would also vastly prefer that his storyline was not based on sleeping with his sister-in-law.


    I guess I need a few more episodes of Oliver's conscience leading the way before I can put those fears to rest. To be honest, I kind of hope Thea learns about her brother's extracurriculars and she becomes the heart and conscience of Team Arrow. Then it will make a little more sense why they wanted her to take over Verdant even if that leap will never be logical to me. As for Tommy, we have to agree to disagree because I am quite fine with the characters doing a Saint Tommy retcon since it seems to be moving everything in the direction I hoped for this season. My Arrow wish list has mostly been put into play with these character changes.


    No killing is never going to work. I completely agree and I don't think it will last long at all. I don't even want it to because that generally means that some bad guy I never want on screen again comes back each season, a la Dead Larry in Burn Notice. What I would like to see is more effort in apprehending criminals over killing them. If it ends up kill or be killed, then I would like Oliver to accept that and move on without wallowing in an abyss of guilt and emoangsting.

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  16. Knowing how this show works now, they won't drag things for more than a few episodes, until the end of the season top.

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  17. Absolutely! One of teh things I usually love about this show is its pacing. They don;t let things drag out for too long, except the island last year. Since we are getting a jump start on the island already, I'm hoping we go at a steady pace in all of the story elements.

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  18. Yes, I get that but still can't comprehend why is that logic to her. Yeah, from the outside it's all clearer I know... i hope it develops like you guessed!

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  19. Well, yes, I don't know why is that logical to her either, maybe in future episodes we'll find out more as to why she's after the Hood.

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  20. If not Thea, I'm hoping for some scenes with Roy when he discovers Oliver's identity... but what i got from the premiere and Black Canary, is that they're pushing the reveal a little more, as if he's going to get some skills thanks to her or something... i don't know, we'll see! :) But yes, I'd love to see Felicity interacting with more people!

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  21. I think grief is clouding her reasoning as well. Similarly to how Oliver is trying to do everything in Tommy's honor, I think in her grief Laurel sees breaking up with Oliver and crusading against the Hood as teh only things she can do. Remember that before Oliver got in the way of Tommy and Laurel, the Hood did first and that may play into things as well. Also, I doubt Tommy kept his dislike of the Hood a secret from her once he knew it was Oliver. Then there is also the murder rate that the Hood helped increase which she could see as symptomatic. If you are looking for someone to blame for your lover's death, you could do a lot worse than blaming the unknown vigilante who was actively involved in the criminal world, whom both your lover and your father hated.

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  22. Absolutely! Quite frankly Roy's character development is the one I am most interested in right now. He could be my new Tommy. I would love to see Felicity introducing him to the Arrow Cave and his reaction. I hope that Black Canary does not end up making Roy and Thea a love triangle though. That will get annoying fast. I am very good if Roy learns his skills from her though. She was awesome in that brief scene.

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  23. - I'd like to hear Thea's take on what Team Arrow does but I'm unsure as to what it would be. Thea really hasn't expressed much of an opinion on this brand of vigilantism as of yet, outside of telling Roy he's an idiot for repeatedly going out and almost getting himself killed.
    - I second your worries about Diggle and will continue to hope his character doesn't get slighted or ignored by the writing staff.
    - While I hope the relationship between Quentin and Laurel continues to make progress, I'm curbing my expectations. I think positive progress between the two will continue to be relatively slow (but steady) until they're both finally on the same side of the Arrow issue.
    - I couldn't agree more about lethal force. If you'll excuse the phrasing, I have a hard time believing that the "no killing" policy is anything but a dead end. Whether it's unintentional, self-defense, or in defense of a potential victim, killing is going to occur and will most likely be out of necessity. I think it's great they're all agreeing that killing should never be the goal but to believe that it may not be a possibility or maybe even necessary is dangerously naive.

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  24. I think we are going to get some answers in the next episode since Laurel seems to be a heavy player in it.

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  25. I definitely think one knowing about Oliver before the other is a vastly superior plot for them than yet another love triangle.

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  26. "What I would like to see is more effort in apprehending criminals over killing them."


    Maybe I am the only one, but I understood that's what Oliver meant by 'finding another way'. Last season he didn't bring any criminal to justice, he just killed them.

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  27. I question if there really has to be ONE voice of reason in the team...I think it works very well when they alternate the roles a little bit, with each of the reminding each other why they do what they do and what they shouldn't do. I think one character who acting as a living conscience would get annoying very fast.

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  28. -Yes there is another entrance to the "Arrow Cave", it was mentioned last season that Oliver put one in on a side street when the club was under construction.

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  29. Maybe not the secret, but I foresee a lot of seasons trying to sell Oliver and Laurel as the pairing which is meant to be but kept apart by contrived reasons. That is one of the reasons I enjoy Thea/Roy so much more...the problems they have in their relationship are more grounded and realistic (I don't mean that your partner having a hero complex is a common problem, but that one of them pursues a goal the other doesn't agree with, not out of egoism, but out of worry.)
    This is one of the reasons I never minded Thea as a character, either. Not that she was always written perfectly, but I always understood where she was coming from.

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  30. I meant by "just killed them" that he never chose a third option: bring criminals to justice. I know he gave them chance to do the right thing, I never thought about him as a murderer :)

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  31. Valid point. It would be easy for someone like that to come off as preachy if they were to repeatedly be telling others what they should and shouldn't be doing.

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  32. I thought I heard about it before, but I didn't remember when, thank you!

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  33. That's okay :) , I was re-watching all of last season again, and picked that up :p

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  34. I agree that Laurel and Oliver will face increasingly more absurd problems to surmount in their relationship before finally getting together in the end. I also am fairly sure I won't give two figs about it when it finally happens. Long, drawn out will they-won't they, are they-aren't they contrived dramas do nothing for me. If I have to have a relationship take center stage, then I would go for Thea and Roy for the same reason, but also because both Thea and Roy have personalities outside of themselves as a couple. Thea and Roy are both interesting in their own right and the are interesting as a couple. That almost never happens. Usually they become about the couple and suddenly their individuality starts suffering or they stay interesting people but become insufferable as a couple. Have to give the writers kudos to walking that fine line pretty well for them. Still, I would prefer to focus on the plot and action.

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  35. I think relationships on screen work the best if the writers have a plot and this plot just happens to include a relationship. The moment they start putting the drama into the relationship because they want drama there, instead of allowing the relationship (all relationships for that matter, romantic or not) to develop naturally and having the drama there because it grows out of the plot. Thea and Roy work because while they did include the romance in order to have Roy in the show at all (they practically can't break up before he is part of team Arrow since without her, it would be difficult to include him), the actual thought behind the romance is not the romance in itself but to introduce Roy before he becomes the Red Arrow. Plus most of the plots surrounding their relationship are not just about the romance, they are also about them growing up. And even if they do add an immature element from time to time, it works because they are both still pretty young. They are experienced adults of which I expect to act like grown-ups.

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  36. Omg no more love triangles! i hadn't think about that as a posibility, god help us all, DON'T! lol It would be fun?, interesting at least, if Roy knows about Oliver before Thea... but I hope they don't drag that long, enough secrets lol mmmm the other way round would be interesting too, if Thea knows first, and she knows about Roy wanting to meet the Hood, what would she do? mmm I maybe like that more, I have to think about it haha

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  37. mmm I didn't take into consideration that maybe Tommy had talked about the Hood to her... I wish we'd seen more scenes between those two. :/ And another thing, did they see the Hood trying to save Tommy in the finale? I can't remember and if they did and then he couldn't save him, it's also easy to blame him as in 'you were late! if only you'd come here earlier!' or something like that lol plus all you've said about her dad hating the hood too!

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  38. That is why I am excited about this season because it seems like they are consciously moving in that direction, which was one of my wish list items for this season.

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  39. That's a good point. As long as someone is acting as the voice of reason throughout the season, they most certainly could take turns depending on who they are facing.

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  40. I think Thea is likely to see the vigilane in terms of Roy and therefore find him dangerous. However, she seems to be able to see the shades of grey in people a little more this year so it could be surprising. I agree that the Hood will continue to be a sticking point between Laurel and her father, just with the roles reversed this time.

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  41. I wouldn't say Oliver "just killed them", he gave most of them the option to do the right thing, and if they chose not to then he killed them.


    I too understood what was meant about "finding another way", so no you were not the only one :) . I do not believe Oliver is being naive about never killing again, like I am fairly certain he understands the risks involved in being a vigilante, and that death is one of them. But from what I understood, killing will not be his first intent ..unless of course he has no other choice in the situation.

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