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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

POLL : What did you think of Dexter - Goodbye Miami?

9 Sept 2013

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33 comments:

  1. Matt Hakel9 September 2013 at 03:18

    can anyone give me a tease for the episode? I'm gonna start it soon. was it awesome?

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  2. Lucas Araújo9 September 2013 at 04:52

    Where's the "Predictable" option?

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  3. Luana Arturi9 September 2013 at 06:48

    did not expect her to die so quiqkly, Dexter's confused pain was amazing though

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  4. ShatteredOne9 September 2013 at 06:56

    Pretty predictable, but Dexter should've chased Saxon down instead of going to Vogel.

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  5. LockeUp9 September 2013 at 07:47

    Not really.

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  6. LockeUp9 September 2013 at 07:50

    This show is almost beyond saving at this point. I honestly do not care about any of the story anymore. They haven't sold me on Dexter and Hannah's relationship at all and I feel like I just need to fast forward to the last 5 minutes of every episode. All I want to know anymore is just how it ends.

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  7. Cliff9 September 2013 at 08:21

    If you're curious, you can read about that here http://www.reddit.com/r/Dexter/comments/1lmt40/spoilerpossible_finale_leak_for_dexter_season_8/


    It hasn't been posted here as far as I know, don't know why though, because it seems like it's the real deal.

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  8. Jordana339 September 2013 at 12:28

    Or at the very least, he should have been concerned that Saxon was still in Vogel's house waiting to pounce.

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  9. DarthLocke49 September 2013 at 15:58

    Loved this episode. Dr. Vogel was used in a way that she should be used, as she parallels Dexter's own past mistakes (Rita) and possibly current ones, while also solidifying a theme of parental figures who who have failed people they love and hoped to help/save, especially children and ultimately tying back to the loss of Laura Moser. This was also beautifully contrasted by Hannah taking a risk to right by Harrison.


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    Well it looks like that latest batch of them might be true. They made point to drop a line about Quinn's past with the idea that he left friends and family behind in New York. -And another point that Dexter is no longer having uncontrollable urges to kill, but rather a moral obligation to, as he also promises Hannah he can have a fresh start....

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  10. DarthLocke49 September 2013 at 16:08

    IMO Hannah represents Salvation for Dexter. She represents a "trinity" of the better traits of those that Dexter has had intimate relationships with (Lila, Rita, Lumen).


    Harrison is solidifying this fact. Before, I had thought that his imaginary friend, an elephant named DAN, was the writers way of giving us an "elephant in room" idiom that were not out of the woods with Harrison growing up to not be a killer, but this was before I knew what Oliver Saxon's real first name was, which is DANiel! -It might imply we were not out of the woods with Vogel's son/The Brian Surgeon, but also that Harrison may have some kind of physic ability, as he may want Hannah to be mother, because he knows that Hannah is one key in Dexter's salvation/freedom.


    They made a point that Dexter no longer has "urges" to kill, but rather an emotional moral obligation to. Like Lumen, he may be able to move away from his 'Dark Passenger'. Hannah also proved herself again by doing right by Harrison and taking him to the hospital.


    We have some Major spoilers on STV from reddit....The latest batch I found the other day seem likely, but they go hand in hand with the previous ones, as those didn't give information to the very very end, where these now do, minus not including a couple of things the other spoilers do. It's probably anyone's best guess, but if you want to read them, I can get you link.

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  11. DarthLocke49 September 2013 at 17:06

    But he's not a perfect sociopath. Dexter is loosing his ability, because he deeply cares about the emotions of others, including Evelyn. Evelyn is the one character who is the most like himself and her flaws have been his flaws all along. His ability to listen to her and care about what she says, shows a great improvement in his character's growth to become a more normal human being.


    So even though, yes for everyone's safety it would have been better if he just did the deed, it's still important character wise to see this progression. Now we just have to see if the series/writers is/are going to say if Dexter's emotional awareness and acceptance is his downfall or not and if it's the downfall of us all?

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  12. Cliff9 September 2013 at 17:34

    What makes me sad about Dexter nowadays is - doesn't Michael C Hall understand his character better, does he just fit in the script or act out what the stage directions say?


    Take the scene with Batista, Dexter giving him his notice...when Batista hugs him at the end of their talk, why would Dexter be surprised and raise his eyebrows in that moment? It's been 8 years and he still hasn't understood or learned that this might be a very appropriate reaction of a decade-long colleague and friend? MCH did this so much better like three years ago, but it seems he really regressed his acting as Dexter back to the season 1 lining of "Dexter has no emotions, Dexter does not understand things like friendship".


    And I won't even get into other things except that it hurts so much having to endure this horrible Hannah/Dex writing all the time =) everything between them feels so forced and constructed, as if they were two people totally indifferent to each other, bound to each other by the sheer power of a screenplay. I'm also still wondering where the whole Niki/Masuka storyline is supposed to go. They had a minor character popping up all the time again only to waste him shamefully with Louis already, now it seems like they're not even trying to fit something behind this thing at all other than the one sentence of dialog in every episode to fill their minimum running time.

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  13. Cliff9 September 2013 at 17:44

    I think the spoilers on Reddit are true, too. It would make sense, somewhat at least, to go down the route with ***** as they supposedly do, because he was so present all the time but never in the spotlight. I would like that, I like the character although many fans don't =)


    By the way, I like your theories and interpretations about Vogel, really. But I think you took it too far with her, because as the episode showed, she was nothing more than a vehicle for Dexter to start the season somewhat ambiguously, then to drive another nail between him and Deb, then to give him the necessary conflict of killing her son or not... she never really started to become something more than this thing to lead the story one way or the other. Dexter hasn't learned much from her in the end, and she didn't have any impact on anybody else either. At least that's what I got from all of it :\

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  14. DarthLocke49 September 2013 at 18:21

    Dexter is surprised, because he now is beginning to understand what he has not let himself really feel, --affection from others. He has let himself believe for SO long that he didn't really feel, or that other people really didn't cared about him. That's why I still disagree with you about Vogel, because "timing" (kismet/fate) is everything in this series. Vogel comes right at time where Dexter and Debra are the most lost either has ever been, as not only is Dexter realizing just how much he does feel, but also because he thinks Debra is all he has left and so he makes a great effort to go after he and save her life. Vogel provides a foundation for that realization and insight into Dexter's problems (by having very similar ones herself)and the reality that Dexter was always operating from an unknown mother figure, that he never knew he had, something he though he never could. He's embracing everything he denied himself his whole life and it's overwelming him. She means a great deal to him, that is why he wants to kill Saxon and why he held her in his arms upon her death--the first time he has ever done something like that.

    Nikki, and one other thing coming in the Finale,I believe might be gesture to Jeff Lindsay's first novel: Tropical Depression: A Novel of Mystery and Suspense. (I'm almost finished reading it). You can see a lot of the Dexter novel character archetypes and ideas in this novel. There is one character from Austraillia living in Miami who's main character, Billy Knight's neighbor named Nikky . He works in a New Age store and often goes on and on about astrology, karma, good eating, ect. I didn't think anything of it, until I saw Nikki in the lab area of Miami Metro when Matthews walks in as she is performing a ritual to keep "the bad spirits" away.

    -In a few episodes before Matthews also sarcastically something like, Because the "stars aligned. Mercury went retrograde" (or something like that) again pointing out the Karma factor in the series.

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  15. LockeUp9 September 2013 at 18:28

    I really don't want to read any of the spoilers but thanks. :)

    And I get what you're saying about all the dialogue and progression of Dexter and his emotions. But the pre-season 7 Dexter is the Dexter we all know /loved and was, quite frankly, the reason many of us watched the show. It has become so dumbed down and trite that I can hardly stand to sit through an episode anymore.There is no attachment for me anymore other than Dexter himself. I don't care about his love life and there is no villain since season 4 (maybe season 5) that I truly feel fear for Dexter from (although the previews for 11 and 12 make Saxon seem that way- but why take 10 episodes to get there?).

    Like I said, I get what you're saying but the stuff they're writing now is not what made Dexter, Dexter. I get the emotions but there is no reason to talk about it over and over every episode to just fill the time. It's really disappointing. I used to be the biggest fan of this show (among many others) but I've never had to say that I almost don't like a show I've invested so much time into as much as I have this one.

    I'm crossing my fingers that the spoilers you are referencing will be some sort of saving grace for this show but I feel almost cheated that it takes 8+ episodes of the same dialogue just to get to that point.

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  16. DarthLocke49 September 2013 at 18:43

    See I always expected the show would unfold and be able to show a progression to his emotional acceptance, because that IMO is what the series always asked from the the get go. And by the time we got to season 4, I knew that he cared deeply, despite his inability to accept himself and/or verbally express himself to others.

    IMO it's more that people thought that they were forever going to watch a series about a guy who loves killing people and how he could escape other killers, rather than a series that was asking if Dexter really has to kill people and what does it mean to have emotions?

    I understand that the season isn't "action" driven and that's a difference from earlier seasons, but I think the interactions and diolgue have to be there, because Dexter is now able to verbally express himself proving his overall progression -and his interactions are providing a more character driven ending, rather than one that doesn't explain what the series actually means ,because these characters are pointing to having everything that Dexter ever lost or never understood he could of had...

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  17. Cliff9 September 2013 at 18:48

    Sorry, but I, at most, halfheartedly agree with that.


    Vogel is yet another "object of protection" that Dexter meets, just like Rita before, then Lumen, and others. She gives him a) something that "he never knew before", b) makes him consider or do things "he never did before", and then is erased from the story like everyone before. You can argue what her exact values are or how she enriches the story, but in the end she is a simple plot device and written in a hamfisted, incoherent way at that. If Dexter had a season 9, she would be mentioned once or twice, but that would be about it, I'm sure.


    The take on gestures to Lindsay, alright. It's nice to include something like that as a nod to the readers, but don't spend time in every episode with it if it goes nowhere. The "solidifying parent-child relationship and having children that can transform us" part may be your take on it, but seriously, if the series showed an apple on Dexter's plate for ten episodes in a row it could be a symbol for peace and the rest Dexter never seems to find, but it's still just a damned apple on a plate =) what I mean is, you can put meaning behind a lot of a things if you're willing to do that, but in the end, what does it really matter? Has the Masuka-Niki storyline done anything this season but make us go "oh look, topless Niki, that's a nice view"? Yeah, it probably has showed us that Masuka can be a funny dad, but meh. A final season didn't have to let us know *that*, now did it? =)


    By the way, I'm still not sold on that spinoff or how "real" it is by now, because I feel that the criticism this season is getting from all sides, I doubt the network would put any effort into another thing like that without the main attraction in it.

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  18. DarthLocke49 September 2013 at 19:04

    I disagree only because she provided the foundation of his existence (she is where the code comes from and is whom Harry confided in making them both his parental figures). If there was a season 9, she would have been saved for it for that very reason. Additionally she is more than what the others are, because she is a near identical cliche' with Dexter in a way that no one else in the series is (if they would have actually cast her as his biological mother, I would have totally bought it).


    None of those other characters have been forgotten. They have been "re-contextualized" into the newer characters. Hannah (has the best traits of Lumen, Lila, and Rita), Zack Hamilton is a reflection of Dexter's own youth and Harry's parenting and Zack juxtapositions Jonah Mitchell and Harrison's unknown future and how Harry failed Laura Moser, Dexter, and Debra and Dexter's need to protect certain female characters (Zack was killing to protect his mother and there are some Bates Motel references there) in with how Vogel failed both of her sons.


    The season also ties back and parallels season 1 (which is our starting point) and then also there's a great deal of season 4 (which enacted the idea that Dexter's emotions stray from the code and it ultimately cost him something, something that he basically looses twice (mother figures), as now he has to face the same situations about family again. It allows it be "full circle".


    Scott Buck is already signed for SEVERAL Showtime Projects in the next two years, and most likely Showtime invested in spin off, because Dexter's season 7 and early season 8 ratings broke major records for the cable network. For me it depends on what it is. I first thought a Hannah spin off would be great, but recant spoilers indicate that it may be focused on someone else and if t would be, I have mixed feelings about it.

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  19. Cliff9 September 2013 at 19:16

    I agree about the spinoff direction if the finale is any indication as to where that would go. But I honestly couldn't imagine that, not only for the reason that this character is usually among those who don't get much love from the fans.


    And I understand your points with the full circle and callbacks to earlier seasons. I have to agree with LockeUp above though, where he said that this isn't the Dexter we love - and it's not even for the story details per se. It's the acting, the writing, the dialog, everything about that is executed on such a low level this year - and last year already, that it's almost puzzling. And I know you are often very defensive of the shows you watch (I have rarely, if ever, saw you criticize something, actually =), but I am just baffled how much grit, how much seriosity, and how much sense the early seasons made concerning what people said, what people did, where events took us, compared to what we get especially this year.


    It feels, at times, like watching a painfully constructed soap opera with dialog only to make the dumbest viewer realize what the characters are feeling or thinking right now - over and over again. The writing is so repetitive and unnecessarily stuffed with contrived conversations to make a point that it's just ... well, sad, for the lack of a better word. The show doesn't need it. It's as if they're writing for first-time viewers who decided that season 8 might be a perfect entry point to the show.


    And, of course, scenes like Harrisons little fall and Hannah's run to the hospital. It's as if the directive for the episode contained "TENSION MOMENT FOR HANNAH - SHE MIGHT GET EXPOSED", and the writers thought, hmmmm you know, she should get Harrison to a hospital because they can fix a bloody wound better than Hannah with a slap patch.

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  20. DarthLocke49 September 2013 at 19:27

    Like I said it's looking like it's going in another direction and in terms of Hannah, I'm ok with it, because she might have something that I originally thought she wouldn't when the series ends. But I'm not sure if the other character can "carry" it. If what happens in the latest batch of spoilers happens, I totally like the line of thought and role that character plays, but I just don't know if the actor/character is strong enough for spin off, unless they give him a really interesting back story....


    I think it's repetitive, because they want to highlight emotions and move away from actions and because they want "fate" to be felt. As I said to LockeUp above, it's not that I disagree that it isn't a little dragged out, but I'm enjoying it so much, because I get see so many interactions I have never seen from these characters and because characters are expressing themselves for the first time in the series. Whatever the final message it to us, it's going to relate to the idea if emotions are truly flaws or not.


    IMO the Hannah taking Harrison scene is more than a tension creating scene. She's proving herself to the audience. IMO Harrison has an ability, one in which he knows things that he shouldn't. Something beyond normal sense. --His imaginary elephant is named "Dan"....Vogel's son is named "Dan-iel". He wants Hannah to be his mother possibly implying that she is in fact Dexter's salvation. -But they need this scene also set up scenes with the Marshall and Elway's upcoming false belief that Debra is one they should be watching and not Dexter...

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  21. Cliff9 September 2013 at 19:34

    It's probably not the case to discuss this, but if the finale spoilers are correct, which to me they absolutely are by now, it's still a revelation out of the blue, with no indiciation to something like that before. Something to surprise people, but not to make sense of anything that came before.

    And in my opinion, Harrison is nothing like that, and we also won't see anything like that, because that would be such a vehicle to stem for those writers that they wouldn't even think about that. One could be tempted to interpret that into his character or draw parallels to Dan-iel, but that's far-fetched at least. They already had Lumen who brought so much light into Dexter's life, do you honestly think they have any intention of making the elephant Dan - Vogel Dan - thing relevant in the slightest sense you may hope? I don't, honestly.

    But I'm off to watch Breaking Bad, something you should do very soon, too! =) and I'll leave you with a review I just read, he/she says it better and more poignant than I could right now probably, so if you want to spend a few minutes with that be my guest =) http://www.tv.com/shows/dexter/community/post/dexter-season-8-episode-10-goodbye-miami-review-137865805618/

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  22. DarthLocke49 September 2013 at 20:00

    I agree it's out of the blue, but I disagree that it doesn't make any sense. That character has represented and been a reflection of another really important character the whole time. This is what I said to someone else about it.

    But first about Harrison. Yes. The Series like the novels, is full of word play/alliteration. ("El" Sapo, "El"way...HAnnah mCKAy, zACK HAmilton...DE-bra DE-xter, Freebo, Fred Bowman, Bret Fowler, Born Free, Free the boy...Debra, Barbra...ANdrew Briggs, ANton Briggs, ) It goes hand in hand with the fate idea. It's relevant depending on if, despite how this ends, if spin off would still end up being Harrison's. Additionally Harrison knew about his stuffed animal dog and Dexter's slide box--proving him a VERY observant child...


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    "It probably is a false spoiler, but if it happens I can see the writers logic in it. Quinn is a reflection of young Harry and thus if this would happen like this it proves he is the mask Deb and Dexter have been using to hide behind, as he kept Dexter's secret and because he loved Deb deeply and unconditionally, despite both of their emotional problems. Deb's death and the reveal of Quinn along with Quinn's actions to kill Saxon himself remove the mask, transition the spirit of Harry through Quinn to a place Harry never could (be a real protector to his children instead of making them fend for themselves) and lift the burden of Dexter's dark passenger (who's really now morphed into Deb) from Dexter onto himself".

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  23. Cliff9 September 2013 at 20:09

    How did Zach put his hear and blood intentionally under his work desk while being killed by Daniel - in Daniel's psycho lab, as we see on the killing tape?


    - One question one of the reviews I linked asks. And indeed. Who cares eh? =)

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  24. DarthLocke49 September 2013 at 20:10

    Because Zack was taken first.

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  25. Cliff10 September 2013 at 07:35

    Nah, come on, you're a girl aren't you? Would you really say Deb is much better?


    a) everything right now is forced upon her - be it the badge from Angel (the job she barely is ready to return to), the presence of Hannah, whom she despises but tolerates only because she wants to stay good with her brother and probably still has some guilty conscience about the car incident, the imminent and sudden departure of all she calls family - in neither of these things she had any real choice or voice herself.


    b) thus, in fear of being left alone, she regresses so much that she does a thing she vowed she'd never do and it's also entirely against her character - she goes back to Quinn, because she has no one else to turn to.


    c) that all seems to me like she's really totally insecure and overwhelmed by recent incidents, quite the opposite of a much better place indeed.

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  26. brandon10 September 2013 at 17:48

    Well hello dexter morgan was near the end of season four whentrinity finally became a threat to dexter. So I do not see why waiting until the final two episodes to make him a definite threat is so bad. In fact I am enjoying the slow burn season because it is going to be hopefully complete chaos these last two episodes.

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  27. LockeUp10 September 2013 at 17:55

    Yeah but you knew Trinity was a scary, deranged person and you just felt a sense of danger and angst overall, even before the dialogue.

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  28. DarthLocke410 September 2013 at 18:26

    I'm not saying she's cured, but despite her set back with Hannah and Elway which extends to the Marshall, she is showing an empathetic side and has started to say much more honest things (much like season 5) and not just verbally lash out and blame everyone else. It's a sign of improvement in sociopathic behavior, PTSD, and/or of a person who suffered from emotional abuse.

    It's a beautiful thing because really Debra has lacked the love and support she needed as a child and although she relied on Dexter, the truth is she would have to be pretty frustrated with him, because he was never able to give her the appropriate emotional responses that she was seeking in him (as most normal people would...and now he us able to that. That's what this scene showed, something peaceful, accepting, and honest between them.

    She's going back to Quinn, because she started to admit to herself she still loved him (he reminds her of herself and her father.) She could have pursued a relationship with Jacob Elway, but she didn't, because she is now trying to be more honest. Even with Quinn. She didn't just through it all in his face. She tells him the reason why she couldn't Marry him, -that she wasn't sure she saw a future in it...but, ya, like him, she still has feelings for him. And she said the whole thing without any sarcastic tone. Her need to avenge Vogel is proof she wants to do something for a real reason. For the women who helped her really start to begin to find herself.

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  29. Cliff10 September 2013 at 18:42

    Funny how we get totally different vibes from several scenes =) wonder why that is. But the Dex/Deb talk in the evening with the beer felt really sad in my opinion, sad for Deb. She tried to calmly question him a few things, but he is stubborn and doesn't understand what a loss to her he probably is - maybe because he's the more egoistic type of the both of them. Also, I got the impression he really tried to get out of their talk as fast as he could. As soon as there's some silence, he gets up and marches towards his love again. Waving to her to join them, of course, but his expression didn't make a welcoming impression to me =) as if he wanted to subconsciously say, come out and talk to me there if you have to. ^^ (I seem to have a far worse image of Dex than you by now.)

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  30. DarthLocke410 September 2013 at 18:56

    I think it's because it' hard for him. Hard for him to express himself to her (she did just try and kill them both!) and because he has to try and accept her need to avenge Vogel her way, despite that she could seriously end up dead. I think it was that he didn't want to think about what all could happen.

    I think he's afraid to welcome her, because he doesn't know how she'll respond, and because again he is concerned about the whole thing...

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  31. Rollo Tomasi10 September 2013 at 19:26

    The episode was garbage.

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  32. Jordana3310 September 2013 at 21:14

    I also really like the final season is focussing more on Dexter's character development and the emotional attachments that he's formed. I also think that the entire Vogel/Saxon subplot is a fitting choice for the series finale. I definitely have a few problems with the season; I really wished that either Vogel or Zach had survived, because it would have been more interesting and I'm really not crazy about what they did with Deb this season. But overall, I'm enjoying it.

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  33. DarthLocke411 September 2013 at 00:27

    I think Saxon is an intentional contrast, because he is a more serious villain, meaning everyone else had something unique to their personality and/or an origin story for us to understand where they were coming from, where Saxon is a dead pan sociopath and it's the first time we have seen one like this,but his lack of emotional expression heavily contrasts Dexter's own emotional enlightenment.


    I'm kind of hoping though we see a moment where he breaks down a little...where we see him get agitated...

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