Misha just advised looks like Ben Edlund will not be with SPN in S9 - will be working on Kripke series #ahbl4
— Monica (@mfluder_42) June 1, 2013
Supernatural - Season 9 - No more Ben Edlund?
Jun 1, 2013
Supernatural
Thanks to Veronica for the heads up.
What? Noooo....I loved his dramas! :(
ReplyDeleteThere are too many new writers writing for this show. It's not a bad thing if they're doing it right, but I don't like many of the new writers added in the last 3 years.
This is not good.
ReplyDeleteKripke, your son of a bitch!
ReplyDeletennooooooo i love his episodes the new writers better keep the characters true to the show
ReplyDeleteWell that is a step in the right direction for Supernatural finally. Unfortunately that does not bode well for Revolution.
ReplyDeleteNone of the writers were doing right by the show last year, including Edlund. While I liked his work far, far better in season 7 than season 8, I think Robbie Thompson, who is a new writer, got the show better than anyone else - new or old.
ReplyDeleteWhy? None of the writers, new or old, got the characters right last year. They all made their own versions of the show and expected us to go with it one inconsistent episode at a time.
ReplyDeleteRobbie Thompson does seem to be a very good writer. He seems to be the only new writer that acts like the previous 7 years happened.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe he's going to waste his talent on Revolution. This show cannot get any good, unless Kripke plans on firing the whole writing staff.
ReplyDeleteI don't watch Revolution, but one could argue that his talent is wasted anyway. He's a writer who puts so much detail into his scripts that watching the episode once is simply not enough to understand the bigger picture behind it. My favorite eps are Repo Man and The Man Who Would be King precisely for these reasons.
ReplyDeleteWell, would you look at that, Mr Edlund is looking for greener pastures.
ReplyDeleteMaybe even he understands that the past season has been pitiful and he'd better find something else, although his own contribution to the last season has been anything but stellar!
Nice to know that Misha Collins has now taken on the public relations spokesman. for the show too along with directing and being upped to equal status with the lead actors.
Even on their best day, the Revolution writers are simply no match for a mediocre Ben Edlund.
ReplyDeletedo you people even watch supernatural? didnt get the characters right? what they did this season was not keep the characters exactly the same as theyve been , they evolved them, I dont mind seasons six and seven , but this past season was a return to form for the show in many ways. he will be sorely missed.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. He tweeted that he does some research on Supernatural Wiki so at least he's trying. Quite frankly, I think he knows the first 7 years of Supernatural better than all the writers combined even if he is the new kid.
ReplyDeleteYep, I have watched every one of the 172 episodes multiple times, with the exception of Taxi Driver because one shot of that canon-trashing mess was quite enough. I have seen several episodes over 200 times. Believe me, I have watched Supernatural and no, they did not get the character right this year. Sam was a complete out-of-character mess. That was no evolution. That was not understanding who a character is and reverting him back to the pilot as if 7 years of the show had not taken place. There was no growth, just pointless conflict for the sake of conflict that lasted for half a season and then got dropped for plot device.
ReplyDeleteSeasons 2- early 4 Ben Edlund would blow away every Revolution writer even after a 3 day bender. However Ben Edlund hasn't been that Ben Edlund for some time now. This Ben Edlund is wildly uneven, pretentious, too fond of being precocious, and puts his own whims before the show. He will have to be reigned in by Kripke to match the current Revolution writers or he will out-ludicrous them.
ReplyDeleteDebatable.It could even get worse for SPN!
ReplyDeleteHowever, I hope this means they will get a new writer to take his place, hopefully one who loves Supernatural and understands the characters. Fingers crossed!
I would just hope for one who takes the time to watch Supernatural and get a grasp on who these characters are and what they have been through. It might be too much to ask that they actually care more about Supernatural than themselves these days. Find comfort in the fact that they would have to really try to create a character more annoying than Garth to shout out in almost every single episode.
ReplyDeleteI'm not terribly surprised that he is leaving. I know that everyone here loves Supernatural but in all honesty it is a very old show especially in terms of Genre shows in general. Hopefully S9 will get back on track character-wise and plot wise at least for the old fans who still are passionate and loyal about the show 9 seasons in. But Edlund's leaving casts doubt that there will be a S10 which before I was like 98% sure that there will be (unfortunately, I can't see it going passed S10-- if it does then Jensen's predication way back in S1 will come true-- we will end up seeing the boys as old men with canes imo).
ReplyDeleteExactly, Dahne.
ReplyDeleteI would even argue that the OOC/Plot/Brother Conflict, etc inconsistency has been around possibly on and off since S6 BUT the writing at least tried to be much more subtle about it. In S8 they completely threw it out the window.
I really don't like this, he is my favorite old writer that was left.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it is you that have not watched all the eps, because Sam did not evolve this season, he was MIA. I did not even know this Sam and to tell the truth, did not want to.
ReplyDeleteThe show has certainly got eight seasons under its belt but it is still one of the top three shows on the CW, ratings wise.
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However, when you think of all the recent new shows that have been cancelled after a year or even axed after only a few episodes, I would think twice about cancelling a show that is going well despite everything.
As for the J's getting too old; the bros in The Vampire Diaries are the same age as them; Steven Amell is the same age as Jared and his show is in its first season. Jim Caviezel is older than both boys and he is a super action hero in a great show, etc., etc., so I don't see the validity of the age problem that Jensen poses.
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Now if the actors themselves are fed up with playing the same roles year after year, want to spend more time with their families or feel they have earned enough money to go on to doing other things like opening a restaurant or something, that I get, and I would perfectly understand such a choice.
However if they like what they are doing and still pull in the viewers, why not continue?
But with better, more intelligent writing, and more thrilling episodes than we got last year!
As you say devoted long-time fans deserve the best, as do the new arrivals.:)
Edlund didn't write Taxi Driver - that was written by
ReplyDeleteshxt, that means now I need to watch some revolution. Didn't hate the show, but it's not attracting me either
ReplyDeleteThis news seems odd. Not that Edlund is leaving. I'm not too suprised about that given how long he's been there. But that he's going to Revolution, a very plot-driven show. Edlund excels at the creative, off-the-wall episodes and the levels of subtext he puts into the writing. Revolution just isn't that deep, and I can't see Edlund being given license to do something really weird on it. Not to mention, one of Revolutions' biggest problems is that the actor who plays Miles is really, really bad. Jensen, Jared, and Misha could always pull off what Edlund tossed at them.
ReplyDeleteHow did Sam evolve by not even attempting to look for Dean? Who doesn't look for a missing relative? Please note, I didn't say Sam should sell his soul for Dean or start drinking demon blood but look for him . . . . yeah, that's the very LEAST Sam could have done, and it wouldn't have seemed like he regressed or anything. Everyone looks for missing relatives . . . . at least those who care do.
ReplyDeleteAnd how was Dean evolved by blaming Sam for being soulless? That was yet another dumb move by Carver. He didn't blame Sam when it happened and gave a blanket statement of forgiveness for everything but now he's suddenly holding Sam responsible for being soulless when it wasn't even Sam's fault!??!?! Okay.
I wholeheartedly disagree that the characters evolved this year.
I don't pay attention to the writers, but I only really liked 4 episodes this year. I have no idea who wrote them - ATGB, EHH, hellhound episode, and maybe Prometheus. That very last Charlie episode wasn't awful. Ugh . . . this season has been more miss than hit for me.
ReplyDeleteI like every thing about Revolution, except Charlie..maybe I just don't like the name Charlie, as I don't care for the SPN one either. lol
ReplyDeletei watched all the episodes last season like we all did or most of us did i enjoyed it for the most wasent the best season
ReplyDeletetbh i found arrow alot better but i still watched supernatural just hope the writers get it right in many ways next season
Shame he is the best writer the show has but you could guess that he would eventually want to move on to bigger and better things. Given how close friends he is with Misha and his love for writing Cas I just assumed that if one stayed the other would. I actually expected that if Cas were to be written put Ben Edlund would go too.
ReplyDeleteI don't see this as being a sign either way about season 10. The CW will give it a 10th season if it's in its financial best interest to do so, regardless of the show's quality or writing staff.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't talking about Jared and Jensen-- I was talking about Dean and Sam in terms of characterization and how much the writers can throw at them (there is a limit--either they end up being both dead, one lives and the other dies, or we see them as old men sans family of their own still hunting).
ReplyDeleteBut if we are talking about the Js--most likely (unless they really do want to go and pursue other projects, etc), they will sign on for Seasons 10 and 11 and beyond BECAUSE it does means job security as an actor and they both have got families to support. But there are other factors beyond ratings and actors that are considered by executives when renewing a show especially an old show.
There probably will BE a season 10 unless something completely left field happens. With Edlund leaving, like I mentioned before, that is a little left field and therefore it could have a small impact on Supernatural's chance to be picked up for S10.
I definitely think that there will be a S10 since I think that the CW would want to give SPN and its fans, a final swan song season like it did for Smallville.
Nooooo!!! Why must you hurt me like this??? Bad, bad news... =(
ReplyDeleteThey will probably stay in house and Brad & Eugenie pair will stay permanent instead of consulting - and that sucks. A Ben Edlund revenent would be better than them.
ReplyDeleteATGB was Adam Glass, EHH was Ben Edlund, Trial and Error was Andrew Dabb, and Remember the Titans was Daniel Loflin. Agree about the season as a whole, especially the first half's brother rift. That was all miss.
ReplyDeleteThey could split Brad and Eugenie like they split Dabb and Loflin this year.
ReplyDeleteThis came out of the con that Misha is at this weekend so that's why we're hearing about it from him. I'm wondering if Ben Edlund had a multi-year contract and that's why he didn't move to Revolution this year instead. He's always said he enjoyed working with Kripke.
ReplyDeleteSam being out of character was explained by being soulless in season 6. To me that plot line was a huge gamble and it paid off in RoboSam snark. I thoroughly enjoyed his non-guilty, non-emoangsting ways. As for season 7, the only glaring plot problem, as it regarded to the brothers, to me was the pointless Amy subplot that was conflict for conflict's sake. The only difference between it and season 8 to me is that at least they didn't drag Amy out forever and the brothers were more in character with their decisions about Amy than trying to pass off Sam not looking for Dean.
ReplyDeleteWhile Brad and Eugenie are certainly not my favorite, they aren't my absolute least favorite either. However, Taxi Driver was the worst 42 minutes of TV I have seen in a long time (granted I don't watch reality TV and I'm picky about my dramas). It contains the exact moment when I stopped trying to like this season and knew that I wasn't watching season 9 until the summer hiatus. For me, since Supernatural has been such a huge part of my life for 8 years, this was a huge thing and I owe it all to Jeremy Carver, Brad Buckner, and Eugenie Ross-Lemming. Thanks so much guys!
ReplyDeleteIf there had been a plausible reason around why Sam tossed 7 years of decision making and reverted back to the pilot, then it would have not bugged so much. Alas Jeremy Carver's pride kept him from admitting he made a mistake and fixing it. I remember in season 6 when people were up in arms about the new post-hell Sam being so different, but there was an actual reason for it and that reason made sense. Jeremy Carver needed to look to RoboSam as an example if he wanted to change a character so much he was largely unrecognizable. I still however do not know where Sam's hate-on for Benny fits in because that wasn't even season 1 Sam. That was just conflict for conflict's sake again.
ReplyDelete100% agree. How is it possible that Dean defends RoboSam and consistently tells Sam that what he did while soulless wasn't him in season 6, yet now suddenly can't stop blaming him for it? That makes no sense at all. That's 2 writers with little knowledge of the characters pulling something out to keep conflict going. Unfortunately, one of those writers was Jeremy Carver himself which doesn't bode well for the brothers' characterizations in future seasons.
ReplyDeleteSupernatural is getting a season 10. The only people who can make that not happen by leaving are Jensen and Jared. The real question is whether they can contract negotiate for a season 11 or longer. That of course will be decided by the ratings in early season 10, which is as much of a lock on renewal as you can get these days before a season airs.
ReplyDeleteJensen was teasing when he talked about the brothers in walkers taking out demons. It was a lot fun and had the fandom coming up with crazy geriatic hunter episode suggestions during hiatus. The CW is not taking into consideration anything except that Supernatural has better ratings and the WB knows the contracts are already signed so they know exactly how much money it's going to cost them. Since SPN is still a good seller for the WB and relatively good ratings get for the CW, there is no fear that season 9 will be its last. You are right about season 11 and beyond though. It is possible that Jensen or Jared would want to spend more time with their family and unless they did some particularly poor investing, their kids are well taken care of financially for the foreseeable future. It would not surprise me that their season 11 contracts would stipulate shortened hours which would change the dynamics of the show. After all, both Jensen and Jared liked their schedule during Bitten and Misha is coming on as a regular to give them more time off. If they keep Jensen and Jared happy while not thoroughly ticking off the fans in how they do it, I could see season 11 and possibly season 12 being a go. However, the only guarantee is that season 10 will happen. It would take both SPN ratings going off a cliff and plunging to sub 0.5 demos PLUS EVERY SINGLE other show on the CW being a massive ratings hit for SPN to not get a season 10. In fact, even if both of those things happen, I would bet SPN fans would still get a shortened final season. After all, Mark Pedowitz renewed Nikita and Supernatural has always had more fans than it.
ReplyDeleteSo in season 9 we find out which of them is responsible for the worst parts of MBFWB?
ReplyDeleteIf so can we then release every doberman that was insulted by that episode to hunt them down.
Jensen and Jared already have contracts through season 10, which is one reason why there will be a season 10 regardless of who else leaves the show. Neither the CW or the WB care if story lines get tired as long as SPN is making a profit, fans still keep the show in the higher end of the network ratings, and the leads are contracted to continue. Since all this is true, Supernatural has 2 more seasons in it at the minimum. Ben Edlund leaving has no bearing one way or another.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing that is considered in renewing any show, new or old, is will it make money. For most shows that is all about the ratings. For the CW other factors come in like Netflix, foreign sales, syndication possibilities, and of course keeping the two boss dogs, WB and CBS, happy. No left field in any of that for SPN.
Season 11 is up in the air though because there will be contract negotiations then and quite frankly, there is a possibility that the CW will do better than expected in the next 2 seasons while Supernatural's ratings might fall. Early season 10 will determine how much they are willing to bend in Jensen and Jared's contracts. Regardless, you are right about the fact that SPN will get a final season. If season 10 is not announced as the end, season 11 is pretty much a go even if it is shortened. To me the whole thing hangs on contract negotiations more than anything.
Getting time off is sure to be a sticking point and I think money is less of a concern. Jensen and Jared make at least and probably over $125,000 per episode plus con appearance fees, royalties, and for Jensen, directing money. Neither of them have ever appeared to be spendthrifts and neither do their wives. Their families are pretty much set. My guess is that it has more to do with career possibilities than money. Let's face it, stars that are well known on the CW are not well-known outside of it usually and being on the CW tends to be a mark against people instead of for. There is a great chance that Supernatural will be the greatest acting experience either of them will ever get. Tom Welling is a good example. I know Jensen has said that he prefers to get into the directing side of the business, but he has seen from Tom Welling's path that opportunities as a TV director are few and far between.
In Revolution's defense, Charlie has gotten much, much better since the midseason hiatus. Kripke specifically revamped her because of all the hammering the show took with that character.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Ben Edlund and Revolution seem to be an odd fit. He while have to stay within a narrower construct when coming up with story ideas, which seems like it would be less fun for him. Edlund always seemed to like ideas the more oddball the better. Perhaps it is the chance to work with Kripke again that tipped his hand.
ReplyDeleteYou are right about soul-less Sam :)
ReplyDeleteThanks for the clarification Dahne :)
ReplyDeleteI had heard that they had signed up until S9 not S10 so yes, S10 is most definitely in the bag for sure.
Eugenie needs to go. Period. When she wrote comedy for Second City she had one huge advantage: John Belushi.
ReplyDeleteSend her to PBS and she can write shows about touring Uzbekistan.
While I'm not as in love with Edlund as some other fans, his episodes were always interesting, and his dialogue was miles ahead of some of the other writers.
ReplyDeleteBWAAAAHHHH!!! Best comment of the week. I find that the best thing that came from splitting Dabb and Loflin was that I could finally see which one hated Dean as a character and thought he should be two-dimensional all the time and which one never met an anvil he didn't like to throw at the audience's head. I hope unpairing works well in that regard for you too.
ReplyDeleteCome now. What did Uzbekistan ever do to you?
ReplyDeleteSo should I spend the time catching up on the series?
ReplyDeleteWell, looking more and more that the "world has changed" rumor will not be a rumor.
ReplyDeleteThe problem IMO is that the writers have written themselves into a corner.
ReplyDeleteIf they had concentrated more on "Urban fantasy, killing evil and saving people" and less on the brothers' personal tension issues, keeping them as a team of hunters who have each others' backs, then as any procedural show, it would never get old.
Just look at NCIS. I believe the original is still more popular that its spin-off even after all this time.
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For me it's the charisma of the characters who make or break a show, just as much as the plots or story-arcs and the J's have it in spades with each other..
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Certainly a well thought out, detailed and thrilling set of episodes certainly helps. :)
I have never minded one or both Js having time off, but PLEASE make the ep interesting, and not another Bitten, that was so boring and who cared about those people. The Bobby ep was awesome and interesting and was someone we knew and loved, of course Jensen worked harder on that one. ;)
ReplyDeleteDefinitely agree. Look at older TV shows. MASH, All in the Family, even the large ensemble cast of ER. Now the charisma is even more important with the characters waking up in a "different world".
ReplyDeleteReally looking forward to an angel's encounter with a crack addict. Or even the angel on crack, flying into buildings and staring at ferris wheels.
Possibilities are endless!
With rumors of Bobby coming back. (Read some quotes from Carver) It may be time to show the toll the eight years have taken on their bodies and slowly start working toward the end.
ReplyDeleteI've suggested it before but maybe the series should move to 13 or 14 episodes a year. I point to shows like Sons of Anarchy, Breaking Bad, Rubicon and others on cable. Granted cable has more liberties than network but you can thin your herd of writers, keeping only the best. Or even paying a "guest writer".
Would love to see Stephen King's touch.
Wow . . . . all different writers. I guess that's good.
ReplyDeleteI hope S9 is better than this past season.
Will do. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteI agree. Cable does it better. The shorter the season, the tighter the episodes will be presumably. This would cut down on the pointless filler like Bitten, Krissy & Gang.
ReplyDeleteI must confess I havent seen Revolution bar half a episode so I cant judge wether it is good or not. Perhaps Eric thinks the show needs Ben Edlunds unique creative spark? obviously Ben decided it was time to move on. As for SPN he gave me as a Sam fan the Great Escapist even though showing how Sam feels and the impurity he felt since childhood though welcome felt just too late the damage done to Sam has been going on since season 4 but at least he put that episode out there. So in one sense I will miss him and wish him every success in the future.
ReplyDeleteNetwork is starting to catch up, The Following was only 15 eps and no break. I think 24 is also going to be shorter. They could stay with the story and cut these awful eps and yes Bitten would be my first cut. lol
ReplyDeleteMmm. As far as the J's presence on-screen is concerned, it's between a rock and a hard place. The viewers would like to see them on screen together as much as possible in every episode, while clearly none of the actors would turn their noses up at more time off.
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Unfortunately the show is about the Winchester brothers or should be, so I hope they manage to find a happy medium and have the brothers on together as much as possible.
I agree. It seems the whole writing team is careless and very superficial about the show and its complex mythology.
ReplyDeleteStrange really, unless they have other jobs lined up on bigger shows and they are just waiting for SPN to finish to take them on.
I can't fathom why they can't write better and more exciting stuff, it's not as if they don't have plenty of material to go on! :(
No! I've loved Ben Edlund since his Whedon days!
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to throw in here that Jensen joked (I can't remember where or when) about doing 11 seasons just so he could say, "Suck it, Tom Welling!"
ReplyDeleteI would really rather see them end on S10 than go to 11 or 12 & have Jensen & Jared with time off leading to other eps like Bitten. If the dynamics of the show are going to change to where it seems like another show, I'd rather they end as the show I've loved.
ReplyDeleteAGREED!
ReplyDeleteI feel like Sam didnt look for Dean because in the moment he disappeared, it was finally too much, Sam didnt have any help, he was, as Crowley said, 'well and truly alone'.. he was overwhelmed... so he just ran. People do that in real life, you know. I'm not saying that was him evolving.. and I dont get why people are so fixated on it. Sam made a BAD CHOICE in not looking for Dean but this bad choice was the catalyst for his growth this season. I know they dont really show it with dialogue throughout the season, but I thought they did a fair job of showing what Sams inner conflicts were.. and in the end, he chose to get back in and 'finish the game' by closing the gates of hell. Especially near the end of the season, I think they did a great job of showing Sam coming face to face with the inner demons that he has always struggled with... and throughout the season Dean is forced to decide whether or not to truly practice what he preaches and put family before all else.. the saying 'you dont turn your back on family, even when they do' comes to mind. I think both of them had been dealing with a lot of doubt for the last few seasons and season 8 finally got us to the point where the brothers have decided what is truly important to each of them and now we can move on from the constant back and forth of the previous few seasons.
ReplyDeletei would agree that we dont per say see many of the results of this growth because it took the majority of the season to get through it.. and Im not saying i liked the choice sam made in not looking for dean.. but i thought it was the most realistic choice either of them has made honestly... can you really tell me youve never had a loved one do something that just seemed to come out of nowhere and really let you down?? and the way they did it was also pretty spot on.. in reality we dont know why people do some of the things they do until long after the fact.. and that speech sam gives in the finale.. i dont really view it as a cop out .. i think it was a great way to finally show why he made his choices.. .because that was, in his mind, the last chance he was going to get to tell dean since he was about to kill himself to shut the gates of hell.
ReplyDeleteJim Michaels just confirmed Eric Charmelo and Nicole Snyder are returning. This doesn't look good folks.
ReplyDeleteOh no... They don't get the SPN vibe at all. As bad as Brad & Eugenie. More Revenge of the Manquins on the way.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree, I think they should make ALL the writers (new or not) watch the previous 8 seasons, Jeremy Carver included.
ReplyDeletereally? to me, they attempted to evolve them but did a half arsed job of it leaving both characters with nothing to do but regress or spin their wheels.
ReplyDeletedean being moderately more open with his emoitons and sam having a 2 minute speech at the end of the season finale doesn't mean much when both characters have flip flopped all over the damn place.
one minute dean's a genius~ and the next damn episode he doesn't know what a familiar is. one minute sam is throwing around ultimatums and the next he is all "dean what's wrong *concerned sam face*". one minute dean's ragging on sam for being soulless/not looking the next he is all "sam always comes through". one episode they can best a whole horde of baddies the next they leave flipping knights from hell alone on unconsecrated ground to take a phone call.
the only characters that evolved this season, imo, were kevin tran and charlie.
I think if you're writing a show you should have seen all the episodes at least once.
ReplyDeleteMay you clarify? I don't know about this rumor. *Blushes*
ReplyDeleteI'll be brave and say I like Revolution, not near my top shows, but interesting enough. I don't like that we've lost writers because of it.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they should go past Season 10 though. There's only so much story to tell. I didn't hate Season 8 as much as others on here, but many shows don't age well and SPN is one of them. I just want a nicely wrapped ending.
ReplyDeleteI am in complete agreement. If you don't know what came before you can not possibly know your characters enough to be true to them. I think it is even worse if the show runner doesn't know the characters.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's always the case. Some shows can do long seasons and it works like Person of Interest. However, it cases like Supernatural where there ends up being a lot of low quality "stand-alones" in recent years, I agree.
ReplyDeleteCanon has suffered from a sheer lack on knowledge this season for sure. We wouldn't get toss off lines about the Grand Canyon if the writers had watched season 2. Little canon breaks like that are almost as disconcerting as the major characterization canon flaws to me.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Totally agree, especially about the show runner.
ReplyDeleteShow runners are supposed to look over everyone else's work and make sure that it gels. How can you possibly make something consistent if you don't know it yourself? This has been the most jarring season simply because half the stuff didn't make sense, when if people had just watched the show they could have gotten the characters and the plot in the same place without trashing canon to do so.
ReplyDeleteThat does bode well for you that you've liked a variety of writers. I really hope that your enjoyment of Supernatural returns in season 9.
ReplyDeleteBut I think Edlund does excellent drama episodes for the most part. I didn't like his off the walls humor, I like more serious stuff or more subtitle humor.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, him and Revolution seems like an odd fit considering he always says he prefers comedy and Revolution is an on-going action plot.
Yeah. However, I think that what upsets me the most is that Carver isn't completely oblivious. He wrote some great episode with great characterization of the brothers in previous seasons. He knows Sam and Dean and he knows that a great part of his his "plot" was OOC for them and messed greatly with Canon, but he did them anyway. He just didn't care and it makes me incredible angry. Oh the pride to be the show runner and have the power to do whatever he wants. Fans only have to "accept it". (NOT this fan, though)
ReplyDeleteAwful thought.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Sam's usually all for giving creatures a chance if they're trying to be good, like in Bloodlust.
ReplyDeleteNone of the characters have been written consistently in recent years.
ReplyDeleteI was frustrated beyond all reason throughout Taxi Driver but my absolute final breaking point came when Dean sliced off Benny's head without even considering any other way to get to Purgatory himself. (Obviously from the episode itself, it wasn't too hard to get in and out.) That was so very much not Dean and I figured if they had already trashed Sam's character this season I didn't need to watch them decimate Dean's.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong. If this had been the only issue in Taxi Driver or season 8 for that matter, I would have been unhappy but not done. Combine it with all the other canon-trashing debris flying from this episode, I knew I had had it. The only reason I finished watching this season at all is because of the podcast. If I had not been involved in that, I would not have seen the remaining 4 episodes and quite frankly I probably would have been happier with SPN as a whole given that from that point they killed off Sarah, increased the number of angels, introduced Metatron, possibly neutered Crowley, and made the entire season's quest obsolete.
Canon is important to me and it was obvious from this episode that it had absolutely NO value to either Jeremy Carver or the writers. Therefore I have no need to waste my time supporting them. I will watch season 9 next summer, but if it is anything like this season I will say adieu and only watch the series finale. Or if Kripke comes back of course.
I never understood the hate on Charlie on Revolution, and I believe she has done a lot of growing up.
ReplyDeleteIt's been a consistent Sam characteristic throughout Supernatural and one that made him very sympathetic. To then have him so unreasonably (for him) against Benny, especially when Benny got Dean out of Purgatory made Sam look bad in a season that consistently trashed his character. It was unnecessary and wildly out of character. It almost seemed like Sam blamed Benny for getting Dean out and ruining his happy life with Amelia. In what SPN world does that even begin to make sense?
ReplyDeleteFor me it's like they think Sam chose to come back soulless and not that Cas brought him back that way. That tells me that they did not watch season 6 but just read the Clif Notes in that Sam was indeed soulless. Not knowing your own show can only lead to more inconsistencies so I really hope Jeremy Carver sat down and watched every episode over the break.
ReplyDeleteKudos. That third paragraph sums it all up. The wild inconsistencies left everything said and done suspect. That's why the ending brother scene did not ring true for me when it should have been the highlight of the season. By letting every writer come up with their own version of Supernatural, we ended up with characters contradicting themselves all over the place until you never knew what version of the character was going to show up next. Next season they have to have ONE Supernatural sandbox that they all play in instead of their own parks and for goodness sakes, the writers need to talk to each other about what they have written.
ReplyDeleteYou don't get any argument from me. I think Jensen and Jared are the most talented actors on the CW and to be honest they have had a lot of time to hone their skills. I'm just not sure that others outside the fandom and CW know they are so talented. It's a great shame.
ReplyDeletePlot wise there is still a wealth of ideas that could keep Supernatural going for years, but you are right. They would have to make it more streamlined and less grandiose and quite frankly emoangsty. NCIS is indeed more popular than its spin-off and more popular than its early years. Obviously a good story with interesting leads can keep a story going for a long time.
ReplyDeleteWow. SPN is not doing well. Although, Edlund on Revolution could be INCREDIBLE!
ReplyDeleteI don't mind the brothers being separated if it makes sense. Having Dean drinking in a bar while Sam takes on the King of Hell on his own makes no sense. I like how they do research and interviewing separately. It allows Jensen and Jared to have much needed time off without sacrificing the story.
ReplyDeleteOriginally I was opposed to shortening Supernatural at all because a mediocre episode of SPN was better than most of what was on TV. I'm not sure that is true anymore. For me I think all new shows should be around 15 episodes until they can prove they have the story wherewithal to actually tell a good tightly crafted story. They can slowly add episodes in for shows that can, but as soon as they start putting in junk just to fill the episode agreement it gets cut back down again.
ReplyDeleteHowever this is not the business of TV where quality has no bearing on profitability. As long as shows continue to make money, they will continue to get bloated episode orders.
Only some cable does it better to be honest. There's also the drawback of just getting into a series and having it go on extended hiatus because it has so few episodes. That sometimes frustrates me more than fillers do especially since not all filler is bad TV. Sometimes it is quite inspired. Not that I am saying Bitten or Freaks and Geeks was inspired, because they definitely were not.
ReplyDeleteWe're losing Ben Edlund and regaining Gabriel and Balthazar. Richard Speight Jr said he was told. Sebastian Roche hinted on Twitter, if you will it I'll be back.
ReplyDeleteThe Following may have had only 15 episodes but I would say that it had a lot of filler episodes too. It isn't the episode order as much as it is the quality, continuity, and vision of those episodes. A typical 22 episode Supernatural season in the earlier years had on average 3-4 episodes I really did not care for. The Following had more than that in 15 episodes and more than half that time it reverted back to the FBI being no closer to getting Joe than they had at the beginning of the episode. For me even 15 episodes was too much for The Following.
ReplyDeleteGood point. If your show runner, writers, and actors are all in sync to tell a common story then the number of episodes do not matter. If they are all off doing their own thing, then the more episodes you have the more glaring the problems are. In that case having fewer episodes could actually mask some of the problems for awhile.
ReplyDeleteI think when Jeremy said he wanted to dump the complex mythology, he meant it more than I originally thought. It seems like a conscious effort to ditch 7 years of canon instead of a lack of knowing it in some instances. The Grand Canyon problem is a lack of knowledge but Sam not looking for Dean, especially after the backlash, was a conscious choice to put Jeremy's plot ahead of Supernatural's past.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they should go beyond 9.. because what will happen if they closed the gates? dealt with it then what? S8 has great storylines introduced in it yet it suffered from fillers and lackluster episodes. The writers aren't as creative as the previous ones in the early seasons nor is the show runner himself although I liked his previous episodes he's written.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. It's not the episodes as much as it is the quality. Some of my favorite episodes in Supernatural and other shows are standalones. Some of them are even out there, like Wishful Thinking. For me the show would be poorer if we had missed them. The simple fact is a poor episode is a poor episode, and once a show has too many boring, poor episodes they need to look at long term solutions instead of just cutting the episode order.
ReplyDeleteFor me the solution would be to get new writers and a new show runner instead of cancelling it. If they had closed the gates of hell, there would still be monsters and other evil to pursue. Supernatural has a vast quantity of untapped monsters and urban legends that they could explore. They only need writers and a show runner up to the job.
ReplyDeletePardon my meandering here but I am beginning to think that Bitten was a disaster because they tried to change too much in one episode. The brothers being gone for most of the episode is a huge adjustment but like you said they were only in parts of Weekend at Bobby's and that episode was a big success. However, instead of giving us other characters that we could sympathize with like an old hunter, they completely shifted the focus to whiny college kids and threw in a freaking love triangle to boot. Both things are diametrically opposed to the core of what Supernatural is.
ReplyDeletePerhaps if they had brought in new characters that were more in line with SPN as we know it, it wouldn't have been as hard to swallow. Imagine the story was about some 30-ish woman who finds herself inadvertently turning into a monster and it puts her family in danger. It may not be an episode for the record books, but it is certainly more in line with common Supernatural themes while still getting to the heart of getting a monster-eye view of a case. Or even better if we got an episode told through someone like Lenore's eyes. I still wouldn't care for the lack of brothers but I would be vastly more interested than in the psycho emoangsting maladjust's transformation.
Then they added in the handheld camera thing that never really worked for Ghostfacers on top of terrible, unrelatable characters. I'm not saying Bitten would ever be top tier Supernatural, but if they had one aspect of Bitten to various episodes instead of throwing the whole mess together in one episode it might have gotten a better reception. I have no problem with getting the monster's point of view. I just didn't care at all about anything these 3 had to say.
For me its all about balance. We don't need to see both brothers interviewing one person, examining one corpse, or talking to cops at a crime scene together. If I get that, great but it won't make or break an episode for me. What matters is that when they are one screen together, that time actually counts. Jensen and Jared spent an awful lot of time together this season watching the main action take place with other characters. This is not a good use of their time. Instead I would much rather them talk on the phone more and then both be an intricate part of the main action together. I think there are many good ways to make the actors getting more time off while not sacrificing the integrity of the story. The writers just have to be willing to let their pet characters and story lines go to some extent to do so.
ReplyDeleteI love that interview. It's funny and was said when Supernatural and Smallville were both on Friday if I recall. Part of what made it so much fun is that both Jensen and Jared were friends with Tom at the time.
ReplyDeleteIf their reduced time is going to be like this season, I agree. However thinking back on many episodes, the brothers could have had more quality screen time together and still have had more time off. Watching the brothers pinned to a wall watching another character be the hero is not a good use of Jensen and Jared's time. Having them go to separate interviews and then coming together to defeat the monster is. I think it is entirely possible for the writers to increase the quality of the series and still give Jensen and Jared the time they need off if they separate the brothers for the mundane stuff but bring them together for the important scenes....and actually having them do something in those important scenes.
ReplyDeleteI think the longer they stay in SPN the more they'll lose the chance to be on a big project once it's done because of what you said. Others outside of the CW and its fandoms don't really know them or their talents.
ReplyDeleteFor me, Jared truly grew as an actor due to the constant challenges that get thrown at him which he takes on perfectly. Jensen ,however, is still the same since S6 for me. He is incredible but he hasn't progressed any further due to the lack of interesting SL given to him, with purgatory being the exception, 'coz of how fresh and different it was I really thoroughly enjoyed his performance.
He had a few great scenes but that isn't enough to showcase his full potential.
I really hope it doesn't go beyond 10, since they already signed on it. I want to see them as someone else in a different project, whether film or TV just something new to get me excited because season 8 was very predictable and a bit boring.
For me not aging well depends on why. If a show is out of stories to tell, then yes it should finish gracefully. However if it is just a matter of having the right people create those stories then a show can go on a long time for me. There are plenty of supernatural tales left to tell. They just need someone with the vision to do them. I have several shows that diminished in quality for awhile but then picked right back up with the infusion of new blood or a better plot line. For example, Burn Notice was starting to get stale on me but then last season it became one of my favorite shows again. A show can only be as good as those creating it are. I think Supernatural has the potential for a real resurgence. However if they stay their current course, I won't be sorry to see it end although I will feel very sorry for its remaining fans.
ReplyDeleteJust MO but none of Revolution's actors or characters have grabbed me like SamnDean did in it SPN's S1. I watched SPN from the pilot in 2005 and the show interested from 1.01 (enough to tune in to 1.02 and by 1.05 Bloody Mary I was hooked and more so by 1.06 Skin. Regarding Revolution, I do watch it but often let 3 or more eps pile up on my DVR. I just don't care enough about any characters and at least one or more I dislike intensely (Hello Charlie). IA that most of the acting is subpar and some of the "B storylines" in Revolution make the writing in SPN S7 and 8's MOTW's look like fine poetry.
ReplyDeleteBen has many written serious episodes for SPN but most of them had ordinary humorous situations (like Andy in Simon Said) or even macabre, "black humor" (MBV's "puppy lovers" eating themselves to death).
I haven't loved all Ben's episodes but I think he's "too good" for Revolution, a show that is - again MO - inferior to SPN, at least in SPN's heyday. .
Depends on why you stopped watching. If it is because Charlie was a whiny mess who for some reason older people with more experience were always bowing down to, then yes. That problem has been fixed in part because they are focusing on Charlie a whole lot less. If you left because you found the plots implausible and too hard to suspend disbelief in, then no. That is the same. I will say that Revolution has typical Kripke pacing and the answers still come quickly. In that regard I am still watching although I would really like them to kill off Rachel and Monroe.
ReplyDeleteFro me just the fact that Charlie is more of a side character now instead of front and center is a great improvement. We now spend more time looking at other character's reactions than Charlie's although she is still obviously important. Also Charlie spends a whole lot less time whining and very little time being in charge, which fits a person of her experience. those two things alone makes her more palatable to me even if I still wouldn't shed a tear if she was killed.
ReplyDeleteEric Charmelo and Nicole Snyder are returning.
ReplyDeleteJim Michaels tweeted that Eric Charmelo and Nicole Snyder have been added to the writing team. They were on the show in season 6 and wrote: 6.06 You Can’t Handle the Truth, 6.14 Mannequin 3: The Reckoning, 6.17 My Heart Will Go On.
ReplyDeleteI don't have much of an opinion on them, but the way they write Castiel is decent, and that's what's important to me. :)
Edlund did fine with Firefly and Angel. It can't be worse than the writing staff of S1.
ReplyDeleteFor me Revolution, at least on its best days, are about action. They spend less time on big monologues (except last week) and character emo tangents. I've never seen Ben Edlund as an action writer. His drama is more in the lines of my least favorite episodes of Revolution and even still they have more action than Edlund adds in. I'm not saying that he couldn't do well on Revolution. I just don't want Revolution to become more like Edlund typically writes. I think Kripke is going to have to reign him in a lot.
ReplyDeleteThey were the writers of You Can't Handle the Truth, Mannequin 3: The Reckoning, and My Heart Will Go On if anyone wants a point of reference to celebrate or remorse.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they can make season 11 and forward "shorter seasons". The nets are into that now, if CW creates a few more hits I could see that happening.
ReplyDeleteI think My Heart Will Go On had some really good scenes, especially with Bobby and Ellen. It doesn't mean that they will be awesome but it's better than it could be. I agree that Mannequin 3 was a disaster for the majority of the episode although I enjoyed seeing Ben again.
ReplyDeleteI think that Mark Pedowitz would love to try it. I am iffy on how that will work with how terribly CW shows suffer in any hiatus. However if by getting more shows on the network increases the number of viewers that problem could take care of itself.
ReplyDeleteI think that the damage has already been done as far as their mark goes in Hollywood. Of course that all changes the moment they take a small part in an indy movie that gets them the attention they deserve. I of course can't predict the future, but getting any good job after a CW show seems to take a long time. For such a small network, it's shadow looms large over its actors and it will already be hard to get away from the CW label for both of them. 1 or 2 more years won't make that big a difference. Likely they will have to luck into something and when they do they will excel enough to get people's attention.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree. Twice the scripts from them that way.
ReplyDeleteFor me Jeremy Carver sent a great big screw you to the fans in the finale when he brought up Sam not looking for Dean once again. He would be better served to just ignore it like he has done with most of the canon from the first 7 seasons. He's obviously not going to fix it and it shows great hubris to keep rubbing it in the fans' faces when he won't. While I had respect for him as a writer, I have no respect for him as a show runner. Doing things just because you can is a lousy way to treat fans.
ReplyDeleteI was a little annoyed by the scene, too, but as I read -somewhere - something to the effect "... the problem is what to do with Sam to give viewers 'Cas and Dean only scenes"... that's a close I can remember. But a point the writer was making is that, sure giving the Js separate scenes to give them more time off is good in theory but MC is going back to regular status in S9 and having Cas and Dean interact nearly exclusively and having Sam do something (off screen or ridiculously hazardous as in 8.23) will be absurd. If MC is going to a regular, Cas's interactions with Sam must increase at least somewhat.
ReplyDeleteWow. Thank you so much.
ReplyDeleteFinally. Since I saw the finale I tried to put exactly what you wrote into words. Now you did that absolutely perfectly.....exactly how I feel about season 8.
The "not looking" thingy was explained in 8x23, but in retrospect, the entire season did explain it.
Not bluntly, hit you in the face style, but more subtle, and that is how it is done, for those who still are able to watch without prejudice, so that excludes most of the vocal Twitter and Facebook and other haters and whiners on the net. :)
IA but, but, but the initial female doberman and Sam scene were the only good part of the episode ;).
ReplyDeleteIf Jeremy Carver wrote that scene simply to have a Cas and Dean only scene then I am beyond irate. That is fan pandering at its very worse from a man who did not bother to fix the biggest problem the fans had - Sam not looking for Dean. I wish I knew where you read that because that is very disturbing if its true.
ReplyDeleteI think that more Sam and Cas scenes are a good idea. If Cas has to have more screen time and if angels are going to be a focus, then it only makes sense that both your main characters would have scenes with him.
It's a great loss for the show, his episodes were among the absolute best of the series.
ReplyDeleteTerrible news. As if Buckner and Ross-Leming weren't sucky enough.
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell, Carver ? Why bring those people back ?
Oh. God. All. Reason. To keep. Watching. Just...died...
ReplyDeleteIf Sam thought he was in the right, not looking for Dean, why not explain it to him, why not say I was over come with grief instead of saying nothing when Dean ask "Did you look for me, Sam" If Sam thought he did right why was he AGAIN apologizing? Which he does quite well, as he has had a lot of practice.
ReplyDeleteJust because someone does not agree with you, they are labeled "haters and whiners", nice that others can not have an opinion.
I'm sure the writers have seen all the episodes, but when you're knocking out 23-4 eps a year you don't always have time to research every line (yes I know there are character continuity issues that every writer should have been aware of just by dint of knowing the characters really well - I'm just answering your issue on individual lines).There's supposed to be a continuity editor who specifically looks out for stuff like this. Budget cuts maybe?
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately it rarely seems to work that way. Sopranos had 10-12 episodes a season and I swear the last 3-4 seasons of that show felt like filler almost every week. Even the finale was filler.
ReplyDeleteShe mostly just stands around looking blank. Amazingly I think I preferred her before.
ReplyDeleteHe's not going to be doing any of that at Revolution, and SPN at its worst is probably better than most of that show. I think he just wanted to try to fix up that junkpile, and try something new.
ReplyDeleteThis industry is not about talent, unfortunately. Aside from Dark Angel, Jensen has had almost nothing but crappy roles outside of Dean. I can see why he doesn't want to completely let go to end up settling for sludge.
ReplyDeleteYes this. I bet Kripke sees Revolution has failed and is pulling Edlund in hoping to fix it, but his style just doesn't suit that show.
ReplyDeleteMoving the show to Tuesday means almost guaranteeing a ratings loss, since they have more competition and a less compatible lead-in. It seems like the CW decided this was worth it to shore up Tuesday nights. If they manage that (not sure they will) then I do wonder if they'd go past season 10. I guess they have to get a season 10 first though.
ReplyDeleteI had the same thought. Revolution's already on shakey ground as it is.
ReplyDeleteLet's get some more female writers on the show. Some more female writers in television, PERIOD.
ReplyDeleteThey could hire any long time fan to spot continuity errors. About every person on this board comments on them all of the time. Hell, I bet some people would do it for FREE.
ReplyDeleteThat's why people are liking her more now. They evolved the character.
ReplyDeleteMy problem with the show was feeling like I'd wasted half of my time watching it. All I could think when Danny died was, "Are you telling me I sat through a kazillion hours of WHINING CHARLIE and stupidity to save this idiot and he's dead before the end of the next episode?!" Seriously, that really pissed me off. It's like the whole arc leading up to now was a waste of our time. That's what you get for just standing there like an idiot anyhow, Danny.
I don't know what any of those eps are about.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely.
ReplyDeleteThere are plenty of moments where they can be logically apart, each doing something pertaining to research, cops, interviewing separate wtnesses etc, but as you say when they are on screen together they have to be playing an active part in the story.
Don't use them as wallparer the times that they ARE together, just to be witness to what the secondary characters are doing, as has happened uncountable times in season eight.
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In 'Person of interest' the leads are very rarely together but with the plot device of them using the ear-mike to be in continual contact makes the story flow, and you don't miss them when they are not physically on screen together.
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I don't mind in the least when they use the phone to communicate as long as the story carries them along together as the protagonists.
IMO, it was a completely atyipical episode that wanted to be taken too seriously.
ReplyDeleteWe were supposed to feel for these 'poor teens' and their 'love' drama, but as I said, who cared?
Then the hand-held thing was just annoying. It probably would have been much better if they had filmed it normally, at least it wouldn't give one a headache!.
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The rest of my family haven't seen it yet, but I already know what their comments will be."What is this stuff! Where are Sam and Dean!" or words to that effect, maybe worse! :)
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An entire episode from the monster's point of view could have been very interesting.
The monster could have had the POV, seen the Winchesters; recognized them as hunters, maybe tried their best to avoid them, but being taken out by them in the end, because that's what Sam and Dean do, unfortunately for the monsters!
There are so many good ways to tell a story and sometimes 'simple' is best!
They are all from season 6. You Can't Handle the Truth was Veritas where people were compelled to tell the truth, but Sam didn't have to because he had no soul. It is the episode when Dean has confirmation that there is something wrong with RoboSam.
ReplyDeleteMannequin 3 was mostly about a women whose sister donated a kidney to her but when said sister dies in a prank gone wrong, she haunts her sister's kidney. Yes that was teh actual plot and it was as ludicrous as it sounds. However, it also had Dean and Lisa talking again and had a very poignant scene between Dean and Ben. It ended with Sam giving Dean a pep talk about how important they are because they save people. It was touching.
My Heart Will Go On is the one where Balthazar un-sinks the Titanic to give Cas more souls for his war machine and Fate takes exception to that. It also had Bobby and Ellen married and Jo still alive too.
Agreed. If they kill off Nora but Rachel and Monroe are still alive, I am going to have a hard time returning to this show next season, Kripke or not.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I thought he meant he was going to cut down on the myth-arc in the sense that he would concentrate more on the day-to -day hunting stories and not include the Heaven/ Hell stuff as much.
ReplyDeleteI didn't expect him to trash everything that had gone before.
Sam not looking for Dean is ridiculous any way you want to look at it.
Then the man has the audacity to keep rubbing our noses in it! Pah!
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I can understand him ignoring past Canon, but not subverting it and negating it altogether, as he has done on many occasions.
As for details like the Grand Canyon; it's the writers' and especially the showrunner's duty to know all about the show they are writing for, so I'm not going to give Carver a free pass on that either, as even the walls knew it.
I mean are they not supposed to discuss all this in the writers ' room or do they just drink coffee and prank around?
All one has to do is consult the internet and the writers can get any details they want about the characters and the show's past.
As another poster said,it's insulting to think that such attentive fans as SPN has won't notice these things, but as you have said before, it's the money and ratings that count in the end!
I think it was a perfect move by the CW. The later Tuesday slot is the death slot for the CW. Nothing has worked there. It makes a lot of sense to me to put your show with the most loyal audience in the toughest spot. I still think Supernatural will be doing better next season than they did season 7, but I too expect a small drop in ratings for season 9. The question will be whether Jeremy Carver can keep the people who move with the show again on Tuesdays. That will all be determined by how he plays the season. Quite frankly I still see SPN being in the top half of the CW's rankings, definitely above Hart of Dixie, Beauty and the Beast, Carrie Diaries, Nikita, and ANTM. I expect it to beat at least 3 of their new shows also - midseason and/or fall premiere. In fact, I still expect it to beat Arrow like it was at the end of the season but Arrow could get a lift from the Tomorrow People and its awesome season finale. SPN shouldn't have any trouble being renewed for 10+ seasons.
ReplyDeletewow, so many response regarding Charlie. I only watched the pilot, and I have to say I am not a fan of her, but I can still tolerate her. I just don't understand why Kripke doesn't make her uncle, who is far more interesting, as the lead. I get that he's one of the leads too but it's always Charlie who is the focus of every poster, that mean's she is the no.1 lead right? I know she's young and pretty, but it ain't a CW show, you don't need a teenager as the lead.
ReplyDeleteThanks for sating my curiosity. :)
ReplyDeleteYeah, I was taken aback myself when he called Benny up just to kill him, when as you say, it was so easy to get into Purgatory anyway.
I'm sure there was more that one 'rogue reaper' out there.
I also agree that the 'real' Dean wouldn't have acted that way.
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You're right in that this was probably the most Canon trashing episode ever; nearly every scene compounded that,The list is endless!
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Carver even trashed his own canon. Why did Naomi have to kill off lots of angels to get Castiel out of P. when she could have had the help of a rogue reaper. Oh dear!
I have only seen this ep once as with the majority of S8 and I've no hurry to re-watch.
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I get completely how it must have angered you as you know the show inside out and have loved it so much.
Well, 'Hope' was the last to come out of Pandora's box, so things might change for the better! :)
She is no longer the lead. Miles, the uncle, is the lead but since I cannot stand him any more than I could stand Charlie for half the season, that didn't make things better on that front.
ReplyDeleteMannequin 3? Uh, was that the main plot? Wasn't it a spirit possessing mannequins?
ReplyDeleteIt would be awesome if Gabe and Balthy came back, but how?
ReplyDeleteWith the writers currently it is aging badly, is all I meant.
ReplyDeletereally? Miles seems like an interesting character in the pilot, wonder what happened. way to go my mood to watch revolution .
ReplyDeleteI thought YCHTT was ok for a robosam episode. The scene of Dean at the bar was funny. On the downside, this was the episode that made it Canon that Dean was Bobby's favorite. The episode also ended with Dean beating on an unconscious Sam.
ReplyDeleteNannequins had some good brother dialogue at the beginning, but the Dean-Ben scene felt too much like an afternoon soap for my taste, and the mannequinep said some weird twist with a blowup sex doll. The end message of that ep was that Sam and Dean always lose, but I think that was Gamble's noir push.
Titanic was my favorite of the three. I liked the Cas, Balthazar, and Fate interactions, and the Bobby-Ellen scenes were a nice if a little unlikely. The had chemistry, but matching up two characters who had never previously interacted much on the show because of a rdndom time change felt like cheap 80s tv writing. The episode also had some big pacing issues, spending much too much time at the beginning on gory deaths.
I have similar thoughts on Revolution. I watch it because there's a gap in my tv schedule at the beginning of the week, but lately I haven't been making it through the full episodes, or my attention wanders midway. I don't feel attached to any of the characters.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is we have 8 seasons of Sam rushing to get Dean's back whenever he thought Dean was in trouble. If this was a case where everything - all of the past hell trauma, all of the times Dean has disappeared in the past - had a cumulative effect on him and he broke, why not just show that? And why is that something Sam needs to grow from? As for Sam's inner demons, I didn't see that come out until the last few episodes.
ReplyDeleteNothing about the Sam-Amelia storyline implied it was anything more than grief, a desire for more out of life than hunting, and some weird complication from her turning out to be married, which had nothing to do with Sam.
Sam did not thought he was in the right, he was more than ashamed about the "not looking" for Dean. To me that was what his reaction in 8x01 showed, even I was not absolutely sure back then. As it always was with Supernatural it took some time to have a pretty short talk about that. I would have preferred it sooner
ReplyDeleteLOL, about your reaction my "haters and whiners" comment, your reaction is so very typical and expected.
Opinion is always a two-way thing, so deal with mine, that I think the " Supernatural haters and whiners" on the net are mostly exaggerating, but hey they are always entertaining to read....but mostly not to be taken too seriously....in my not so humble opinion. :)
NO, blank is very good and she is good at it. lol
ReplyDeleteHave you seen Ten Inch Hero, he was so good in that.
ReplyDeleteGet Sera back she had some great eps.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree.
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to add that I also agree with what you and the other member said about Dean blaming Sam for being soulless, which was incredible out of character and stupid of Carver. That made me want to punch things and makes me see red every time I think about it.
I volunteer! :D
ReplyDeleteSince it was brought up several times, I felt sure they were going to fix it before the season ended..so much for my feelings. ;)
ReplyDeleteWe don't even know if Naomi actually lost that many angels or if she was telling him that to guilt him.
ReplyDeleteI don't think a lot of reapers were going to help them right after one got killed for it.
The episode was rushed and poorly made but I didn't really have as much of a problem with the part about Dean and Benny, since Benny could easily return; he just chose not to.
It's a cute movie, but not sure if he'd be able to make it if he didn't have Supernatural as the regular job. I think he might end up having to just do what pays the bills.
ReplyDeleteI see what you mean. I know some were unhappy with the season and won't be back, so that may have an effect. Hopefully they'll have a great season premiere and hopefully the CW will do some promotion. The last I saw was some photo that looked like Jared and Jensen had been photoshopped onto each other's bodies. The show deserves more than that.
ReplyDeleteMost of the stories end up being about women he loves/people he betrayed/him killing people. On a loop.
ReplyDeleteHa! The CW's promotion team has never been known to get anything right. I still say they should let fans intern and they would get more quality work for less money. However, in all fairness, at least the CW under Mark Pedowitz promotes Supernatural like the ratings winner it is for the network. Under Ostroff, we were happy to get any mention anywhere. She showed up to Supernatural's 100th episode party and didn't even know what the show was about.
ReplyDeleteI am one of those leaving Supernatural after being incredibly unhappy with Jeremy Carver's season 8. However, the majority of people who say they are leaving will change their minds in the long summer hiatus. It happens every year. I do expect that fewer people will come back next year, but I doubt it will be a huge number and even fewer will be people with Nielsen boxes. My guess is the biggest hit it will take is on DVD sales and people buying season passes for season 9 on Amazon and iTunes. Maybe fewer Netflix hits too. All in all, Supernatural is the most steady (and not bottom of the barrel steady either) show they have right now. It will be just fine.
Bringing it up over and over again for no reason is exactly why I have no respect for Jeremy Carver. It's like he is purposely taunting fans.
ReplyDeleteBased on general impressions of their tweeting, I do not think the writers have seen all 172 episodes of Supernatural at all. I think it would be an interesting question for people who interview them to throw out. My guess is that many have not seen the earlier seasons but have read the episode synopsis or notes instead. We know that Robbie Thompson uses the Supernatural wiki to get his background info on SPN for an episode. He's told them that.
ReplyDeleteI have less problems with specific lines unless they came in key scenes of the series. The Grand Canyon line happened to do so and it was something that fans immediately questioned. My Twitter feed blew up with everyone going, "Say what?" However, the real issues are the big canon breaks in character (Sam not looking for Dean) and plot (hell and purgatory are easy to get in and out of). They broke their own canon this season when Naomi said she lost a lot of angels rescuing Cas from Purgatory. Why? Their seems to be a dozen loopholes in and out of every realm.
The most episodes any writer wrote this season was 4. I do not think that it is so unreasonable for them to talk to each other to make sure they are being consistent between episodes AND to ask them to get their facts straight. It doesn't take that long and if they actually watch the episodes every season, they will be a long way towards treating canon like a foundation and friend instead of bombing the heck out of it like they did this season.
I would be happy to tell them when they are screwing with continuity and yes, I already do it for free. I don't expect writers to know the show as well as a hardcore fan, but it would be nice if they checked with somebody before making stuff up and blowing continuity out of the water.
ReplyDeleteIf they had watched season 6, they would have seen Dean defending Sam over and over again by saying that what he did without a soul was not his fault. He reassured Sam of this multiple times. Jeremy Carver seems to think that because he is show runner he can do whatever he wants, long time fans be damned. So keeping with the season 6 theme, here's a quote:
ReplyDeleteDean: "You're a freaking child, you know that? Just because you can do what you want doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want."
If you liked Miles in the pilot, then you will probably like him now. I didn't like any of the Mathesons except for the father who died and the stepmom.
ReplyDeleteThe ghost was attached to her sister's kidney in the same way Bobby's ghost was attached to his flask. The ghost could infuse the spirit of the mannequins but only if her sister was physically present in the place.
ReplyDeleteI actually liked TCHtT. I may be my favorite "gods" episode. Plus it was a relief for Dean to get actual confirmation that Sam was not Sam. Mostly though I like the good quotes in it.
True the dog and Sam had more chemistry than Samelia had.
ReplyDeleteNot only was it a disgrace to Dean's character to not even try to find another way than to kill his friend, but it also left Dean sidelined while other people were doing the action again. If Dean had gotten back to Purgatory, he, Sam, and Bobby could have all been working on the way out together. However Jeremy seems diametrically opposed to letting Dean step out of the caretaker mode to the detriment of both Dean and Sam.
ReplyDeleteCanon is probably more important to me than it is to many fans, so I get why fans who don't care about canon had no problem with Taxi Driver or even season 8 in general. However to me the canon lays the foundation and parameters within which you work your world. It is actually more important in sci fi and fantasy shows than it is in realistic worlds because then the normal laws of physics are the boundary. For genre shows, the canon keeps the world grounded and gives it structure. Taxi Driver completely obliterated the fundamental parts of the Supernatural world and made many sacrifices seem stupid because there was obviously an easy and less poignant way of doing things.
I also thought Jeremy's comment meant that we would be getting back to a season 1 feel to Supernatural and dropping angels and Leviathans. Instead we get more angels and a dropping of 7 years of canon. It's frustrating.
ReplyDeleteIt certainly did take itself too seriously. Maybe if it had been written as a comedy it would have been better. Nah. It was an interesting idea that failed miserably in its execution at all levels. By the way, the handheld stuff just gives me a headache too. I hope they will not be trying that again any time soon on any show I watch.
ReplyDeletePerson of Interest is a great example of how to do it. Dean and Sam could get those nifty earbuds too if they wanted. Credit card fraud is good for all kinds of nifty gadgets. :-P Seriously though, the quality of the brothers' screen time has to be improved far more than the quantity of it. Not to say that I want to see many scenes without either of the brothers in it AT ALL.
ReplyDeleteI think she stands around with her best solider imitation. Quite frankly I am good with whatever expression she's wearing as long as she stays in the background. Ideally she would be seen training to be a solider in the background so that when she becomes a vital part of the story again, we will be able to believe that she is a capable soldier.
ReplyDeleteI would expect to see Jensen have a diminished role in the first couple of episode but then for things to be roughly the same as last year with the exception of more Cas time of course.
ReplyDeleteYes and as he is the show runner that is a problem that won't just effect season 8. I would expect some rough goings over in season 9 as well. The best case scenario is that everyone involved with the plot and characters of the show actually watched the entire series over their break. Then it might be more consistent, in character, and canon grounded.
ReplyDeleteThe first improvement is that she is no longer the focus. Largely she is a secondary character now with Miles taking the lead spot. I also like that she in not whining as much and she no longer gets to tell everyone what to do.
ReplyDeleteWell they did say the only way to get out of purgatory was with a human, so I did not have a problem with Naomi saying she lost a lot of Angels.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that more needs to be done to make sure and get the canon of the show correct. I was also "WHAT" about the Grand Canyon, but I could have forgiven it all IF they had not screwed up Sam.
I adore Sebastian Roche!!!
ReplyDeleteIt would be awesome if the showrunner and the writers watched the show over the break, maybe spoke to the actors, and got some sense of the characters and how they act. Jared, apparently, is very adamant about not finding his arc this year believable. We know Sam would have looked for Dean. Jared knows his character and knows Sam would have looked for Dean. It's a shame Carver didn't even give Jared a good reason for Sam's OOC actions.
ReplyDeleteI confess I gave up Revolution halfway into episode 1 so I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on its quality, but any writer, I imagine, would like the opportunity to play with new characters after working on a show for, what, 6 or 7 years?
ReplyDeleteI think it worked for shows like Six Feet Under and Dexter. I can't recall feeling I was ever only watching filler w/either of those shows. It could work. Network tv should give it a shot.
ReplyDeleteI watched Rescue Me. They experimented one season w/20+ episodes, and I remember thinking so many of them were pointless filler. Much of this past season of Supernatural was pointless filler, IMO. YMMV though.
"If they are all off doing their own thing, then the more episodes you have the more glaring the problems are."
ReplyDeleteExactly! That is what happened this year, IMO. No one seemed to be on the same page, so the episodes didn't flow. This didn't happen in past seasons, IMO.
You're right. I guess there is no hard and fast rule. Some filler can be quite interesting and good. I rather enjoyed Tall Tales, Ghostfacers, and CYHIYB to name a few.
ReplyDeleteI think filler is harder to swallow when you're not enjoying the overall season. Maybe in a few years, I can look at Bitten and F&G (thanks for the name of that episode since I've been calling it Krissy & the Gang) w/fresh eyes. . . . . ahhh . . . I doubt it. Haha!