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SpoilerTV - TV Spoilers

POLL : What did you think of Supernatural - The Great Escapist?

2 May 2013

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134 comments:

  1. Misty Pebworth2 May 2013 at 03:00

    ...Wow.

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  2. patriotfall2 May 2013 at 03:01

    Awesome episode! I can already tell they are setting up an unforgettable finale!

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  3. klutzy_girl2 May 2013 at 03:01

    I loved it! Sick, out of it!Sam was the best. And Dean used to read to Sam! I knew it! And this is everything I've ever wanted in sick!Sam fic (except there was no cuddling and bed sharing).


    And yay, they saved Kevin! I love Metatron.

    And what the hell was up with all the gore tonight? Whoa!

    Great episode!

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  4. Paula Ireri2 May 2013 at 03:01

    I... just... can't...!


    My poor bb's Cas and Sam!!! </3 Dean :( Kevin :(

    J2&M are such amazing actors!!!

    I loved this episode! Can't wait to watch next!

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  5. Charlene Buchanan2 May 2013 at 03:03

    well since ii hardly saw the frist half douno how to rate also the fact it was leaft on a cliffhanger intreasting though ,though some bits still need to add up for me .But yeh i give this 8/10 maby douno .Jared was awsome in this though

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  6. MarissaAO2 May 2013 at 03:05

    It was really interesting. Not the greatest pacing/action-wise, but interesting. Kevin was awesome. I loved hearing Naiomi's opinion of Castiel. Cas was awesome, of course. Sam was great, and I loved getting the insight into his character. Metatron got really metatextual, and that was neat. It was a strong episode.

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  7. TAG212 May 2013 at 03:07

    The first episode all season that I wanted to re-watch immediately after it ended.

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  8. chris6842 May 2013 at 03:08

    Wow, I mean wow. This was a really good episode.

    - Crowley as director. Of course!

    - Didn't Dean at some point say he always wanted to see the Grand Canyon?

    - The first mention of Sam's demon blood since season 5. The writers do know Sam had demon blood!

    - The first time Sam has been given dialogue to express an emotion other than concern or empathy since season 5!

    - Glad at least Kevin is out-thinking Crowley. Go Kevin!

    - A little too much meta for my taste in Edlund writing about writers being gods. Hmmm.

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  9. Elena Wonderland2 May 2013 at 03:11

    JUST.Excuse me while I clean up all the mess I did from crying and drooling...WTH????OMG The episode was beyond awesome,officially in my top favorites!!!I knew that they'd bring up Sam's demon blood again!!!I'm pretty sure now that what's happening to him is that his blood is being purified!!!Metatron was cool.LOVED BIG BROTHER DEAN!!!And sick!Sam out!Sam exceeded my expectations!!!I am worried about what Metatron told Dean about closing the gates of hell...SHIT IS GOING DOWN.And in a recent interview from Carver it was said that in season 9 we will see a brand new world.DAMN.Poor Cas!!!THAT BITCH NAOMI HAS TO DIEEEEEEEEE.

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  10. MythAl2 May 2013 at 03:15

    See writers? That is what happens when Sam gets dialogue to really show his emotions. Jared was great. A really good episode.

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  11. rehabber2 May 2013 at 03:18

    Well at least I know they do have writers that can give us a great ep, shame most of this season has not been any where near great.
    Will watch again tomorrow, but from start to finish I was caught up in the story.

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  12. Thirty2 May 2013 at 03:24

    Metatron was Booger. Wow.

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  13. C P2 May 2013 at 03:35

    Loved it. Ben Edlund once again didn't fail me with a drama based episode.

    I was not sure Kevin had actually been taken, the writers were very vague about that until now.


    Guess fans who guessed Sam was being purified were right.

    Interesting that Naomi has been swiping angel minds since the beginning. I am really starting not to like SPN God.

    So much for Dean believing Season 4 Cas was too loyal of a soldier. Apparently Cas has had several disagreements with the choices Heaven made against people, he just didn't remember them.

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  14. jensenfan19782 May 2013 at 03:36

    Jeremy Carver said we'd be going back to the style of season one and he wasn't lying. I do have one question though. Didn't Dean once say he wanted to just quit or something and see the Grand Canyon? If he did, why was Sam talking about a trip down it when they were very little? If I'm right, it was the only canon mistake I found

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  15. Joseph Lee2 May 2013 at 03:38

    Dean did say that he didn't remember the trip.

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  16. C P2 May 2013 at 03:39

    They should stop mentioning the Grand Canyon. It doesn't make sense. Sometimes Dean's seen it, sometimes he hasn't, and it doesn't make sense after all this time on the road that they haven't.

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  17. Misty Pebworth2 May 2013 at 03:41

    Yeah I think Dean mentioned wanting to see the Grand Canyon back when he was about to die a la demon dogs. At least, I'm pretty sure he mentioned it at this point. Of course, the main thing I remember about that was...donkey show. >.>

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  18. ScottA2 May 2013 at 03:44

    What kind of angel are you? WE'RE THE FREAKIN' WINCHESTERS!

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  19. Misty Pebworth2 May 2013 at 03:47

    Hahahahah, THIS was one of my favorite lines.

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  20. Thirty2 May 2013 at 03:49

    It seems like Sam was flipping out from resonating. A one hundred six degree fever will do strange things to someone's brain.

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  21. TAG212 May 2013 at 03:52

    I think he said something like how can you remember it, I barely remember it and you were only four. I have to re-watch to get the exact dialog.

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  22. ScottA2 May 2013 at 03:52

    For some reason I got goose bumps when Booger said "To cure a demon.".

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  23. Elena Wonderland2 May 2013 at 03:56

    Btw was the buzzing in Sam's ears caused by the presence of Metatron??Also the sudden clarity of memories??

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  24. C P2 May 2013 at 03:56

    I wonder which demon they'll choose?


    I assume curing means making the demon human again.

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  25. Dominick Grace2 May 2013 at 04:11

    I thought this was a great episode, one of the best from this season. I genewrally like the ones Edlund writes, and this was no exception. That guy has a wickedly twisted imagination.

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  26. ZoeF2 May 2013 at 04:19

    It started dull but by the end was really interesting. That scene where Sam talked about wanting to be Galahad was very moving. I wish they wrote more scenes like this for the brothers! Kudos to those who predicted Sam's demon blood was being purified!
    One annoying thing they constantly do - they write that great hug at the end of Pac-Man where Dean seems to be on the same page as Sam to "get the prophet", and then here, Edlund writes half of the brothers' scenes in a repetitive fight, as though that last scene never happened. They keep rehashing the same dialogue like a dog eating it's own vomit. Once that nonsense was done, it finally got good.

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  27. ZoeF2 May 2013 at 04:21

    Ugh. Retcon...

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  28. ZoeF2 May 2013 at 04:25

    I was really annoyed by that Grand Canyon moment, because that scene from S2 Croatoan was so powerful, and many fans were hoping the final series ep would be the two seeing the Grand Canyon at last. This throw away line really annoyed me, because in my head, it was a possible future moment of the brothers. I consider this a retcon, because it's so damn disappointing to me.

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  29. magnutude2 May 2013 at 04:28

    Too bad Meg is gone, she was closest to being curable ....

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  30. ZoeF2 May 2013 at 04:30

    Meg would have been perfect, I'm so annoyed they killed her. From that promo it looks like Abbadon, but that sucks because she killed their grandfather and she doesn't deserve it. I'd love for it to be Crowley, with his snark - that would really annoy him too haah. Even better would be to find Bela, but that's so out of left field.

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  31. ShatteredOne2 May 2013 at 04:32

    Interesting, Supernatural finally got back to doing episodes that are better than Ok. I'm glad, this season has been pretty "par", neither great nor bad, but these last few episodes have been pretty good. We got Cas, saving Kevin, and more interesting stuff about Sam's ordeal with the trials.



    Curious what "curing a demon" entails, but I wish Meg was still around so they could cure her. And Crowley, why do you think you don't need Kevin now that you have the Angel Tablet? Don't you need a prophet to actually decipher it?


    Hopefully with the last part of the season we can have an awesome ending that doesn't make me question whether I should keep watching or not.

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  32. Lissie_Bee2 May 2013 at 04:38

    I actually loved it. We got some serious quality acting from Jared, some overprotective Dean (which I suppose is just in his job description, but still...), Crowley at the top of his snarky game, a kind of hilarious, confident Kevin, and a hint of badass Cas who still cares about humanity, which is my favorite flavor of Cas. Amazing. I even legitimately liked Metatron! Except for the whole "I'm going to stay shut in and read while humanity burns" thing... but that kind of fits in with the majority of angels on this show haha.


    Phew. This one merits a rewatch for sure. I think they're building up to an amazing finale!

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  33. MarissaAO2 May 2013 at 04:40

    It is a retcon, but I think it works.

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  34. Donna C2 May 2013 at 04:57

    SPN God has been a tool since he was introduced.

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  35. João Paulo2 May 2013 at 05:14

    Really, really and strong episode. I watched and I be think the season finale is gonna be so freakin good. Crowley awesome like usual and the colt wow great, Naomi confront Cass, Dean and Sam talk to Metatron was very good, Kevin playing with Crowley was cool and the end I think, man I need the next episode now. Supernatural is really back to old days.

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  36. Taryn Groves2 May 2013 at 05:18

    i think that it made total sense that Sam is sick because his demon blood was getting purified.

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  37. João Paulo2 May 2013 at 05:22

    I like this too, now everything make sense.

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  38. SuePo2 May 2013 at 05:30

    I've been a harsh critic of this season, but if you judge this episode by season 8 standards it was good. If you judge it by the overall quality of the series, it was OK. A lot happened, which was necessary since we've had 20 episode where little happened so now they have to throw it all at us in three eps to have this season resolve anything. Sam could sense Metatron because he's doing the trials... ok. I can believe that. And outside of the one obvious slip in canon (In Croatoan Dean says, "You know all this driving back and forth across the country and I've never been to the Grand Canyon." to have him simply say "I barely remember it" is a terrible retcon.) there wasn't any of the season long trashing of continuity. Of course, it was kind of contrived that Sam was out wandering the hallways in his condition anyway, but again, season 8....



    I liked that Kevin manned up and played Crowley. Good for him. It was a bit unbelievable that he suddenly went from basket case to cool as a cucumber, but I'm getting used to leaps in character logic. Loved Crowley. Thank you Ben Edlund for giving the King of Hell back his snark. My favorite line was Crowley admitting that if he hadn't had to run everything, he could've played Dean. :) That actually made me laugh.


    Booger made a fine Metatron. So the angel has been hiding out for a while, huh? Seems like that happens a lot. Gabriel went into his own witness protection program. Anna fell from heaven. I guess being an angel is a lot tougher than it seems. I can understand why they'd all want to leave if Naomi has been running the show. She's seriously bi-polar. So she's been erasing angel memories? I wonder if it was for or despite the arch angels. She's like the head of the Angel CIA.


    Once I got past the first scene of Dean playing top chef/nursemaid I was OK. But really Ben? "You gotta let me take care of you?" Does that even remotely sound like something Dean would say?


    So now they have to cure a demon? Like demonitis is a disease? Guess that's where Abadon comes into play. Too bad they killed off Meg. She'd be the perfect subject since she's already part way there. Hopefully now Sam can stop flopping around like he's drunk (sick people tend to move less, not more.) and we can actually get this all wrapped up and send the writers to Supernatural school over the summer.

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  39. Peter J42 May 2013 at 05:43

    In a way Dean was right. Cas had rebelled before, but apparently he didn't make the full break until season 4.

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  40. Bruce_F2 May 2013 at 06:22

    So...
    Cas has always been a dissident (no matter how many times they mind-wipe him), Sam's sickness is more of a metamorphosis, Metatron has some redeeming to do, Kevin has grown a pair of big brass ones, and Dean is burdened with holding all these broken people together. Not a bad episode.

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  41. E Novak2 May 2013 at 06:40

    I thought it was an amazing episode! Definitely one of the best, if not the best, of the second half of Season 8! (so far!)

    Sam, Dean, Cas, Kevin... all just amazing. The acting by everyone was off the charts.
    All the Cas FEELS! I was squealing "Cas!" so often during that episode (and cursing Naomi and then Crowley for hurting him).

    And now I can't wait for next week! Cas in the MOL bunker with Dean and Sam! Is it Wednesday yet?

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  42. bibin092 May 2013 at 08:15

    WIN-chesters :D

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  43. MasterWho2 May 2013 at 11:23

    I don't think either archangel cared about running the universe. Lucifer just wanted to "smash up all his dad's toys". God has Michael cast him in to hell. So God was still around then. Michael didn't care about the other angels as much as he cared about fighting his brother. Raphael just wanted it to happen the way it was written by God. So it's clear he didn't want to rule the universe(At least not until season 6's end maybe) And Gabriel left around that time when Lucifer got throne in to hell I'm guessing so God was around then. And he certainly doesn't seem to care about being the boss of anyone. He didn't even want to fight his brothers until the end.


    I dunno, that just seems like a break in canon here. The grand canyon line did a bit too. Though that's more forgivable as it wasn't a major story arc. Otherwise great episode.

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  44. rehabber2 May 2013 at 12:38

    I vote for Alastair. lol

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  45. rehabber2 May 2013 at 12:40

    They have the man that wrote it, what do they need with Kevin.

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  46. rehabber2 May 2013 at 12:42

    Not everything, why didn't Sam LOOK for Dean. lol

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  47. lala22 May 2013 at 13:10

    Okay . . . . I'm prepared for all the "thumbs down" votes I'm about to get but I'm going to state my opinion anyway.
    For me, pretty much all the Castiel scenes bored me a bit. I felt like those scenes brought everything to a grinding halt, so when Crowley even commented how he was "breaking in on the main action" or whatever he said, I felt that was a really accurate statement.
    Now, I actually don't dislike Castiel. I'm fine w/Castiel but I must admit that I don't care about the angel tablet. I don't care about Naomi and the other angels brainwashing their brethren. This show has really made angels into super jerks. I was happy when Castiel killed Ion b/c Ion was a jerk. I don't know what's going on in Heaven on this show, and frankly, I don't care. And to be even more honest, I don't really care about this Hell gate closing story either. I just care about how it's impacting Sam and Dean. That's it. The main arcs don't interest me much this year.
    I liked all the Sam/Dean scenes. Metratron was cool. I liked the Kevin scenes. Crowley's "directing" scene was cute. Anyway, that's just my opinion. I thought this was an okay episode. I'm going to watch it again to see if I'm being too harsh on the Castiel stuff.

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  48. lala22 May 2013 at 13:13

    I believe so. Metratron mentioned his presence being the reason for the buzzing or resonating.

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  49. lala22 May 2013 at 13:13

    Yeah . . . that's s thinking too!

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  50. lala22 May 2013 at 13:15

    I loved that line!

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  51. lala22 May 2013 at 13:17

    I know, right? And the angels? Super jerks, IMO!

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  52. jensenfan19782 May 2013 at 13:23

    I very seldom say anything about the writing, but it was so out of canon it bothered me. Like you, I wanted it to end with them going there and seeing it. Ben Edlund ought to know better. I understand Sam having that fever and thought okay, but Dean responded. sigh. My first real gripe.

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  53. ScottA2 May 2013 at 13:42

    All I could think of when I saw Metatron was "You guys don't walk enough. You're gonna get flabby.".

    Love how Crowley picked a Luger for his choice of gun, staying partial to the Nazis.


    The theme music to The Dating Game is one of my all-time favorites.

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  54. ScottA2 May 2013 at 13:46

    I'm kind of hoping it is someone who deserves to be cured. Like in the way they chose the bone to kill Dick is wasn't anyone famous, just someone who deserved it.

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  55. SuePo2 May 2013 at 13:51

    I'm actually gonna vote "up" for you. :) I agree. Like I said, if you judge it by season 8 standards it was good, but overall simply OK. I'm not interested in the tablet story either. It's actually a non-story. What good will it do? My guess - after Metatron's statement about them having to weigh the outcome against the risk, they don't do it. So they get rid of demons. They also close the way in for evil souls that should go there. Where do they go then? And the angel tablet - whatever. Not invested at all in that story. I don't really care if they've all been mind-wiped or not. I'm not sure what story they're trying to tell, but it's almost over and I still can't find it in me to be excited. Just nothing. Unlike you, I'm not even invested in what it's doing to Sam and Dean since I hardly recognize them at this point. I'm just hoping for a complete mind-wipe so everyone forgets this season. Silver lining - this will be the easiest hiatus in the 8 years I've watched this show.

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  56. SuePo2 May 2013 at 13:54

    Ha! And apparently he shops at Goodwill. Loved the cliche bookworm sweater.

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  57. ScottA2 May 2013 at 14:16

    Still don't believe Kevin ate ribs and didn't get any on him. I'm interested now how Metatron comes back into play, if at all this season.



    Do you think he would help Kevin decipher the Angel Tablet?


    I'm kind of rooting for the demon to be cured being a missing child or something of the like. Crowley without demon powers is, well, my neighbor. And he's not very interesting.


    Thought Sam's parts were written well. Would have expected the WE'RE THE FREAKIN' WINCHESTERS to come from Dean but Sammy pulled it off. And the dialogue about being the hero was great.

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  58. ScottA2 May 2013 at 14:16

    Demon Dialysis.

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  59. SuePo2 May 2013 at 14:23

    Just curious but, since when can demons shapeshift? Or is that another continuity/canon error we're just supposed to overlook? they're building up, so I just want to know.

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  60. lala22 May 2013 at 15:01

    The demons appeared to pass through some sort of barrier IIRC. Maybe that barrier was causing them to look like Sam and Dean?

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  61. lala22 May 2013 at 15:10

    Thanks :-)
    I'm glad it's not just me. This tablet story really doesn't do anything for me. Haha! I'm just not interested in the demon tablet, and I'm not interested in the angel one either. As far as overarching mytharcs go, this season doesn't compare to the earlier seasons for me.
    I also agree that it might not be a good idea to close the Hell gates. Maybe that's the sacrifice the boys will have to make - not closing the gates/not completing the trials. Anyway, I don't really care that much. As I said, apart from the impact the trials are having on Sam - mentally and physically - I don't really have any strong feelings about closing Hell's gates.
    Yeah . . . . I have a feeling this will be an easy hiatus for me as well.

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  62. lostrocks4ever2 May 2013 at 15:19

    Have to completely agree with you. As meta trim was telling that whole story about the archangels trying to rule the universe, all I could think was what a load of junk. It negated everything we've learnt about the archangels in the last few seasons.
    Why do they keep changing cannon? Do they think we won't notice?

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  63. chris6842 May 2013 at 15:29

    I'm not too far off from you on this. I love Cas's character from seasons 6-8, and I was really jazzed up about the Cas storyline at the end of season 6. I know some people hated what was done to his character, but I thought there was continuity the way his downfall was connected to angels being introduced by the Winchesters to free will, and not being equipped to handle it. For a while around then, Cas was probably my favorite character. I thought there was a lot more story to tell and was disappointed when his story was dropped in the second episode of season 7. When he was brought back, he mostly functioned as the butt of jokes.


    I'm having trouble getting reengaged with this storyline because there was too long of a break in it. I think there still needs to be some wrap-up of the Heaven situation for the sake of closure, but I don't know how I feel about the angel tablets being next year's mytharc (my assumption).

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  64. lala22 May 2013 at 15:57

    I'm w/you, Chris! And I hate it b/c I actually really like Castiel. I think he's a very interesting character, and I like Misha. He's seems like a hoot! But I just can't get myself to care about Castiel this year. I don't know why.

    Like you said, I was semi-interested in what was happening to him in S6, and I thought it was going to be interesting to see him in S7 but then he was "killed off" in the first episode. He returned, took on Sam's Hellucinations, and then left again only to return and act loopy.

    This year, I've also had great difficulty engaging in his storyline. Honestly, I often don't care about his storylines b/c they're always so removed from the Winchesters. Cas is usually off doing his own thing and handling his own problems. Often, Sam and Dean can't help him w/any of his problems as they're just humans.

    I'm also worried about next season. I hope they attempt to tie in Castiel's storylines w/the Winchesters more than they have in the past. For me, Sam and Dean are still the main stars of the show and should be involved in ALL the storylines.

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  65. SuePo2 May 2013 at 16:09

    Crowley has a Holodeck?

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  66. SuePo2 May 2013 at 16:13

    If i could ignore retconning everything Cas has ever done, the Grand canyon, supernatural abilities of demons and established character growth, i would agree with you.

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  67. lala22 May 2013 at 16:17

    Haha . . . I guess :-)

    I'm thinking it was some sort of spell or something.

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  68. chris6842 May 2013 at 16:20

    I agree. There was a much closer tie-in to Winchesters, Dean especially, in season 6. There was the lesson Dean got from Death about the natural order, and that how the decisions they make have a ripple effect of unintended consequences. Then we later find out that Sam and Dean's victory with the Apocalypse threw Heaven into chaos. And much of Cas's storytelling in season 6 focused on his relationship with Dean. This feels more separated.


    Another thing that's been bugging me is that Cas is still being written as having no social skills. To a certain extent it's consistent, but it seems to have been exaggerated beyond credibility in the last couple of years. The latest example was Cas talking about humans discovering coffee beans to the waitress.

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  69. chris6842 May 2013 at 16:23

    Witches get their power from demons, and witches can play with what people see, so I don't think it's too far off that the King of Hell couldn't have come up with a spell to make Kevin see something different than what was there.

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  70. lala22 May 2013 at 17:20

    Agreed! Crowley definitely did something b/c those demons walked through that barrier.

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  71. lala22 May 2013 at 17:29

    Yes, it definitely feels very separated, and it disconnects me from his storyline. I would prefer that Cas have a storyline connected to the Winchesters. I hope that happens next year. If he continues to be off doing his own thing, I can't say my opinion will change much re: his character.

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  72. ZoeF2 May 2013 at 17:41

    Yeah hee! The only truly scary demon imo.

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  73. ShatteredOne2 May 2013 at 18:58

    But Crowley said he doesn't need Kevin anymore, and Crowley doesn't have Metatron, so wouldn't he still need Kevin?

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  74. João Paulo2 May 2013 at 19:39

    hahahaha

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  75. María Vegas2 May 2013 at 19:53

    Well, I'm confused about a bunch of things.

    Was Kevin in Garth's boat or some fake place?

    It seems it is not the real boat, because that one had anti-demon protections and because the Winchesters visited there recently and have been monitoring it and Kevin has been missing.

    So it's some fake place with fake signs of protection, etc. (and some added anti-angel protection that Metatron can erase). But I'm sure Kevin would have noticed easily that the signs were fake, because he is an expert and kind of paranoic. But perhaps he just noticed and didn't say.

    But why did the holy water not work? Kevin is supposed to know how to say the blessings, perform the rite or whatever... and at the beginning he supposedly doesn't know they are the fake Winchesters... Are the demons perhaps supplying Kevin with some 'bad water' that can't be turned into holy water? Well, I'm sure the whole place would smell of sulfur anyway.

    Then: Supposedly Kevin didn't reset that thing preventing the 'dead' message to be sent, on purpose, so S&D would be alerted to his situation. But they are not investigating Kevin's whereabouts at all, and just make a few calls. Then they research the papers and Sam recognizes the symbol. I mean, Kevin has been researching those symbols all over, he sure would have tracked the meaning of one of them if it's recorded in books, as remembered by Sam, and could have sent S&D to Colorado for the search. I mean finding Metatron would have solved Kevin's problems right away some time ago.

    And of course, it's totally stupid that they didin't bring Kevin to stay with them at the bunker. At first they sent him with Garth for a better protection, because the boys are supposed to be on the road most of the time. But once they found the bunker, and given that Garth is never really around the boat, it should have been obvious to move him there.

    Finally: they show Metatron as 'the great escapist', who has spent centuries just reading stories and not caring about Kevin nor anybody suffering in the world. And Sam gets really angry with that. But at the beginning of the season Sam didn't take care of Kevin either, for a long year (neither caring for the fate of his brother). So, I understand he is now fully committed to do the trials, but still, I'm sure he could have better related.


    Well, the episode has been confusing for me, even if it has a few really good scenes (between the brothers, Kevin and Crowley). I don't see the point of introducing this kind of Metatron, I'm really disppointed with that. And I really don't care at all about Naomi/Cas storyline, whatever they do with that, I'll keep erasing it from my memory.

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  76. SuePo2 May 2013 at 20:36

    Ha! Praying for sn angel memory wipe. Thats ironic. :). Im totally with you there. As for the rest, i guess we're supposed to surmise Crowley had the equivalent of a holodeck ala Star Trek and everything we saw was fake. Holy water included. But how he got Kevin in the first place isnt clear so.... Who knows?

    I love your point sbout the inconsistency of Sam's outrage at Metatron for ignoring Kevin whom he should have been protecting and his own actions of commiting the same crime. Sam isn't held accountable for his mistakes. Thats one of the things that has slways bugged me (and has probzbly been a major contribution concerning my growing dislike of the character over the years) so why would they start now? It wont be brought up and im sure we werent suppsed to notice. But very astute observation on your part.

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  77. TAG212 May 2013 at 20:44

    I agree with all you said. I don't like Cas or any of the angels. When i judged the episode I dismissed all the Cas scenes. LOL I liked the Sam and Dean, and Crowley and Kevin scenes. I don't like Amanda or care about Cas or any of the angels. Despite the angels I loved the episode because of getting a little much needed Sam POV.

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  78. TAG212 May 2013 at 20:49

    Hmmm, maybe Sam and Dean decide not to close the gates of hell because there would be no place for evil souls to go, but the sacrifice will be that Sam is not completely purified of the demon blood because he can't finish the trials. I hope Carver doesn't choose to go that way.

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  79. chris6842 May 2013 at 21:14

    Actually, I think Sam has taken quite a bit of flak for his crime of deciding not to hunt for a while. Dean, however, hasn't heard a peep about his decision for releasing a vampire from Purgatory and then not checking up on him to see if he was killing. That's the equivilent of breaking a serial killer out of prison, letting him loose in the world without warning anyone he was out there, and telling him "Be good. Remember what we talked about, OK?" in lieu of monitoring him.

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  80. María Vegas2 May 2013 at 21:16

    Thanks for the nice reply. Well, the real boat wasn't protected against angels IIRC, so I supposed around that episode that Crowley was working with some angel, and that has been shown to be the case in this ep.



    I hadn't thought it was supposed to be all just an illusion and I guess I shouldn't worry much more about the whole holodeck thing, but Crowley needs some 'actors' to portray the Winchesters, so there are some material things in there, and I guess they are bringing in real food, in order to feed Kevin, so I thought there would be some real water around, that would then be turned into holy water.


    And then I kind of resonate with the dicotomy between 'reading/watching stories' and engaging in solving real world problems. But I believe the stories are not always a mere distraction, they can also be a powerful tool for transforming the world. I would have liked Metatron to bring some kind of really powerful message like that, I guess we're still on time.

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  81. ScottA2 May 2013 at 22:21

    Metatron said he was a "run of the mill" angel. If so, how was he able to blast holy crap out of Crowley and why did the noise and white light, indicative of a high level angel, show up to get Kevin instead of just the flapping of the wings?

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  82. lala22 May 2013 at 22:30

    Haha! I hear ya :-)
    I actually like Castiel but can't say I find his standalone arcs interesting. I need his stories to be connected to the Winchesters in some way in order for me to fully invest in them. And that hasn't really been happening lately.

    I did think this episode did an excellent job at giving us some of Sam's much needed POV. That story about the Galahad was quite sad.

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  83. lala22 May 2013 at 22:31

    That's what I'm thinking too. The sacrifice might be NOT completing the trials and having the gates of Hell remain open. As you said and Metatron pointed out, they have to think about the consequences of their actions.

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  84. SuePo2 May 2013 at 22:34

    He's taken flak from the fandom but not on the show. As for Benny, he was in purgatory because he decided to stop killing and his own kind killed him. So I don't think your serial killer analogy applies. He fought with Dean against the monsters. If that doesn't garner some trust I don't know what does. Did they monitor Lenore? No. Did they monitor the shapeshifter dog? No. Did they monitor any of the witches? No. Why would he monitor the one monster he actually did trust? But Sam did, jumped to the wrong conclusion, wouldn't listen to Dean and Martin ended up dead. I get it, you'll defend Sam till you die. But I still want him held accountable for his decisions.

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  85. MasterWho2 May 2013 at 22:37

    Yeah, I also don't see what exactly would stop them from ruling the universe if they had wanted. What was going to stop them at that time even if we ignored what came before? I mean everything that could even pose a threat was either sealed away or went away as far as we know.

    For me, I'll just say Metatron didn't know his brothers like he thought he did. I mean he didn't even know who the WINCHESTERS were. And "Ever since Dad flipped on the lights around here. We all knew it would end with you two." I assume Gabriel meant all the angels. It's hard for me to believe the scribe of God doesn't know who the Winchesters are but some cupid angel knows. I mean it might be somewhat understandable if he were actually older than all the others but he is just a run of the mill angel apparently.

    It also kind of ruins the story if I don't think that. The Michael/Lucifer relationship was supposed to mirror Sam and Dean if they ever stopped being there for each other. At least to me. But no, I think it's more they don't remember/care to watch the other episodes and just want the story to go how they want it rather than progression of what came before.

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  86. ScottA2 May 2013 at 23:03

    Here's one for you. Metatron said he was a run of the mill angel. But when he showed up to save Kevin it was with the blinding white light and piercing noise of the high level angels instead of just flapping in like Cas. Plus he fried Crowley up a bit.


    Is he hiding something?

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  87. ScottA2 May 2013 at 23:31

    Or who the shadowy figure was.

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  88. chris6842 May 2013 at 23:35

    Dean gave Sam lots of flak in the first half of the season for his choice. What punishment would have been appropriate in your eyes for what really was just a decision to retire - even if it was an ill-timed one? As for Benny, even if Dean could have been 100% certain that Benny was sincere in what he was telling Dean, and not making up a story to get out of Purgatory, Dean didn't know whether Benny could control his hunger just like a serial killer struggles with his urges to kill. The point is that Dean was willing to put Benny's life above the lives of the victims he used to save and gamble their lives on his instincts. Dean's sure lucky he always guesses correctly.

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  89. rehabber3 May 2013 at 00:26

    Right, had forgotten about that one.

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  90. Bruce_F3 May 2013 at 00:58

    Interesting theory. It wouldn't be the first time that sacrificing someone was someone else's idea of "curing" them. They loved doing that kind of stuff during The Crusades.

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  91. Bruce_F3 May 2013 at 01:41

    I'd have to imagine that, even if Metatron is a standard variety angel, being the Scribe of God makes him privy to a lot of knowledge that other angels wouldn't have. The guy probably has a lot of tricks up his sleeve.

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  92. CyanaT3 May 2013 at 05:03

    I read that Carver or Singer said it was just Don watching in the shadows. Such a waste of a crap storyline the whole "Sameliadon" farce was! I would be more sympathetic to "Samelia" if was revealed Don was resurrected by Naomi or Crowley to cause Sam to split from Amelia or some twist to make it worth enduring Samelia, rather than having Sam look for Dean.

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  93. sharonally3 May 2013 at 11:34

    You dont want Sam held accountable you want him punished . Benny is a prime example of the Dean effect as for Martin he was a grown man who made his own decisions and speaking of which Dean also made conscious decisions which it seems are being labelled loyalty and human. I didnt agree with the writing for Sam in the earlier part of the season but neither do I agree with the Sam must be held up for his decisions while other decisions made by somebody else are either supposed to be understandable or they are human or it was Sam's fault.

    Frankly right now he is going through enough and has had enough crap laid at his feet by this fandom to last me a life time.

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  94. chris6843 May 2013 at 13:10

    It might be nice if they'd include that answer in the show and share it with the rest of the fandom, beyond the .005 percent that read the article.

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  95. CyanaT3 May 2013 at 14:25

    I never read the article where they said it either; I only "read" other poster statements that "they" had "said" it was Don. I can't even cite the original source. I have kept up fairly well with interviews and spoilers this season but I missed that. Maybe it was a "second hand answer" relayed by one of the SPN staff to a question asked on twitter by a fan.
    It irritates me that the "identity of the shadowy figure" was intentionally meant to add more mystery to "Samelia" and per the Singer (?) interview released right before Citizen Fang said the "mystery figure" would be revealed. If so, most fans "missed it".
    I was disappointed to think that it was "just Don watching" but it would a great twist if it turned to be "Sam" watching himself leave, introducing a Supernatural-element to Samelia. The id will possibly be revisited in the final two episodes but I doubt it - I imagine Carver/Singer thought it should be obvious who the figure was.
    However, since I can't cite an original source maybe the posts where I read this (I can't remember even where I read this - it was repeated on several boards by at least two unique (I think) posters there is a small chance the info is erroneous, but too much time has passed and I doubt Amelia and Don will be seen again at least not this season. (But I could be wrong and Amelia will be back to the finale).

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  96. Megan_B3 May 2013 at 16:23

    I wonder if the hunters are protecting the others prophet cause Crowley must still have the list somewhere, if Kevin die, they can always pick another one. Idk, maybe that's what he wanted to say, just guessing

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  97. allielee53 May 2013 at 16:23

    Agreed! This still bugs me.

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  98. SuePo3 May 2013 at 22:40

    I want exactly what I said. I want him held accountable. I want him to acknowledge mistakes and not have them swept under the rug. He got pissed at Metatron for ignoring Kevin but he did the exact same thing. The only things that are Sam's fault are his decisions. Not to look for Dean, turning off his phones, handcuffing Dean to a radiator unconscious. I've never heard an apology and they've aren't mentioned again. Tho Dean sends a text and episodes later we have Charlie saying its Dean's fault that Sam lost his chance at happiness. If I remember correctly, Dean told him to go, it was Sam who chose to stay. So he can make all the mistakes he wants and Dean will always forgive him but just once it would be nice to hear Sam actually admit it and apologize. That's all the punishment I'm looking for. No disrespect but you should stop assuming things.

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  99. SuePo3 May 2013 at 23:25

    Good question. But he's obviously higher up the food chain than Cas. He's actually spoken to god or at least heard him in order to write the tablets. What was that anna said? only 4 angels have seen god? but metatron wouldve had to have some contact in order to write the tablets. I think his point may have been he's not one of the archangels who wanted to take over, but a normal (but high ranking) one who was content with how things were before god left the building. But frankly, my friend, I'm just not invested enough in any of this to give a crap. :)) afraid you're on you own on this one.

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  100. rehabber3 May 2013 at 23:43

    Right on.

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  101. ScottA4 May 2013 at 23:54

    Yes. I understand your feelings on the mytharc. I just hate seeing stuff that doesn't make sense.


    Like Naomi only having one outfit. Or multiples of the same.



    Even I have different colored shorts and tee shirts.

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  102. SuePo5 May 2013 at 05:46

    Well, in all fairness, Cas hasn't changed his in 4 years. Maybe angels just don't have an eye for fashion?

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  103. ScottA5 May 2013 at 18:19

    Totally forgot about Cas. Must have been the ever changing spatter patterns (redundant?). Wonder how that sweater on Metatron's gonna smell in three or four years.

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  104. lala25 May 2013 at 19:42

    Samelia was an even bigger waste of time than Jesse, the Antichrist!
    Honestly, what was the point of that stupid, boring story? I learned NOTHING new about Sam. Sam didn't seem to grow or develop as a result of his time w/Amelia. What a colossal waste of time!

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  105. lala25 May 2013 at 19:46

    I've read several posts from people who say Singer or Carver identified that mystery figure as Don. I never read the interview or tweet myself either.
    In any event, there are only 2 more episodes left so I doubt it will be addressed.

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  106. CyanaT5 May 2013 at 20:34

    I highly doubt "Samelia" will ever appear again... Singer/Carver may not have acknowledged that this sl ( and I refer to everything involved including Sam's not looking for Dean) was a bust but through Meg and Bobby as surrogates the showrunnners busted on Sam.

    So I'm fairly certain that the mystery figure will never come up again but there remains the slimmest probability that Carver/Singer DID listen to complaints that was in character for Sam to not at least entertain the possibility that Dean was alive somewhere and have Sam offer some explanation of why he thought Dean was dead and in Heaven or why Sam decided not to do what he took on his part to bring Dean back from wherever in the remaining episodes or even early next season.
    In the 8.21 teaser Crowley chided demon "Sam" saying "Your slang. Special K, nose to the God-stone, that's the way Dean speaks. Sam is... more basic, more sincere. Remember, I want two distinct, authentic characterisations". That ***could be*** the showrunners (through BE's/Crowley') acknowledging they made mistakes with both Dean and Sam's characterization up to the Fall mid -season finale.

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  107. CyanaT5 May 2013 at 21:13

    I fully agree. Not only was the precept of Amelia "as the love of Sam's life" completely dismissive of Sam's life and dreams of a normal life with Jessica, we got no new insight into Sam and to snake Naomi's phrase of Cas 'not even dying right', we got a Sam who barely even mentioned Dean with Amelia (and Amelia's father); if Dean's "death" rekindled a desire for Sam to seek out a normal life again I would have liked to see at least one seen where Sam broke down with grief and told Amelia how much he missed Dean instead (or in addition to) of Amelia talking about losing Don. Their whole exchanges over all the FBs over their losses felt cold and therefore disinteresting.
    I'm not saying its wrong for Sam to want normal and out of hunting ... to move on in his life... but the execution was so boring and made worse by the obvious lack of chemistry between the actors. It's the first time I recall that JP has ever had a noticeable lack of chemistry with a guest character.

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  108. rehabber5 May 2013 at 23:49

    Having Sam explain the first of next season will not do it for me. They have 2 eps to save season 8 for me. This has tainted the whole season and destroyed Sam's character that had been built up for 7 seasons. Note to Sam fans, I am NOT complaining about Sam, just what the writers did to him. If I did not care about Sam I would not have cared about this HUGE error. Sam would always look for Dean..period.

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  109. rehabber5 May 2013 at 23:55

    Maybe the chemistry was not there because Jared knew this story was so full of holes a Mack Truck could drive thru it. The hatchet job they did on Sam was criminal.

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  110. lala26 May 2013 at 02:14

    I don't know. I don't understand Carver at all. His idea of maturity is a foreign concept to me, so I'm not sure what to think about any of it. Why would Sam looking (before moving on w/his life) be immature? That makes no sense to me.
    I do wonder how the story would have been impacted if Sam HAD searched. If Sam had searched, I'm sure he still could have given up the search, hit a dog, and met Amelia. From the "story" we were told, I can't see how anything would have changed if Sam had looked into Dean's disappearance before giving up.

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  111. lala26 May 2013 at 02:27

    I couldn't agree more w/everything you've written. I complained a lot about this story, but I would have been fine w/it IF, as you said, Carver had bothered to tell a story.
    "My world imploded" and "I ran" do not make a story, IMO. Those are two vague sentences! I needed and wanted more. As you said, instead of the FBs focusing on Amelia and her pain, we should have seen Sam talking to Amelia about his pain. I would have even liked Sam telling Dean that he couldn't get obsessed over Dean's death as he had done before b/c it led him to bad places. Many speculated that's what Sam felt, but it would have been nice to hear from Sam's mouth.
    Did you know that LB auditioned over the telephone? That's probably why she and Jared had NO chemistry. It was astounding how chemistry-less they were!

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  112. CyanaT6 May 2013 at 23:55

    Multiple posters who've been following Russ Hamilton (Location Mgr ) are reporting he's been lighting up twitter for weeks now giving cryptic hints about the finale (it's twisty -packed apparently). He's also said to have insinuated several "canon mistakes" - like Sam telling Dean the donkey story, that Dean said he "barely remembered" - John took wee!Sam & young!Dean to the Grand Canyon but Dean told Sam at the end of Croatoan that he'd never been to the GC - are intentional.
    If Russ isn't just trolling (I've read some of his tweets and unless he's responding to Q about SPN he's very vulgar) that opens up all kinds of twists to the season -- maybe even a more satisfying (retconned) explanation of why Sam thought Dean was dead, why he didn't try to rescue Kevin and Meg - OR (following Soul!Bobby's Sam - smackdown in 8.19) Sam will admit he did try but found that the only way to get Dean back was by using potentially evil supernatural means.

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  113. CyanaT7 May 2013 at 00:12

    I know you're not "hating on Sam" rehabber. It's good that even Jared said Sam would look for Dean. But JP saying that does not "fix" Sam's sl to date. As I posted to lala2 a little up thread there is there slimmest chance that Sam will say something to Dean to make the whole "Sam is mature, therefore Sam just moved on" fiasco somewhat more palatable.
    I have read at least a half dozen well written "explanations/defenses" (NONE from Carver/Singer!) of why Sam didn't look and I can VERY reluctantly see their value IF Sam actually thought Dean WAS dead and at peace, but none excuse Sam for not even attempting to rescue Kevin and Meg and just ditch most of his phones. The show tried to imply he had a breakdown ("My world imploded" but they went on to do a piss poor job of showing the aftermath of Sam's grief.

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  114. rehabber7 May 2013 at 00:21

    I have said before, Sam did not have to rescue Dean, but he had to have done something to try and find out where he was. I have 2 eps left and I am holding out hope it will be fixed, some way. ;) Other than this screw up I have really liked most of this season and would move it very close to my favorite season 4.

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  115. SuePo7 May 2013 at 03:30

    Well he obviously found it at Goodwill, so I'm thinking it can't get much worse. :)

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  116. CyanaT7 May 2013 at 05:35

    I agree and it would have only added about another 10 sentences of detailed explanation from Sam ...why he thought Dean was dead, why he didn't look for Kevin possibly spread over eps 1-3. Heck if Sam had said he had a mental break because of his grief and his feeling helpless yet again to save Dean, committed himself, felt a bit better and escaped, THEN hit Dog, and then the rest of Samelia unfolded, many fans would have been more satisfied.
    But Carver had to have his artificial Bro angst for the first 9 episodes and the problem is Sam still looks BAD to part of the fandom because he hasn't apologized to Dean for not looking for him. Then it turns into a circular argument - if Sam thought that Dean was really dead why does Sam need to apologize to Dean for not looking., and around and around. The whole "not looking as being mature" was so poorly executed. I *** wish*** Sam (Carver had written) had just said something like this in 8.01 "Look, Dean, I'm happy you're alive and here's the thing - the cycle of sacrificing ourselves to save each other had to stop, so I stopped it. I'm sorry" .

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  117. rehabber7 May 2013 at 11:57

    Hey, don't knock Goodwill, I got a great leather purse with many pockets and have been using it for years..$3 ;)

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  118. rehabber7 May 2013 at 12:39

    That would not have worked..for me, as since he did not look he did not know if he would have had to sacrifice himself. He needed to look FIRST. Then he could have made a judgement.

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  119. CyanaT7 May 2013 at 16:15

    I'm sorry for my clunky wording. My implication is that Sam look for Dean before he concluded that he was either really dead or zapped "alive" to another of the three known "realms" (Heaven, Hell, Purgatory)

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  120. rehabber7 May 2013 at 20:34

    Ok sorry for the mix up, that would work for me..heck at this point almost anything to show he cared enough to look would be great. lol

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  121. ScottA7 May 2013 at 22:54

    I'll bet the zipper is stuck half way and he needs to do a George Costanza to get the darn thing off.

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  122. lala28 May 2013 at 01:10

    Agreed! Anything would have been better than the "nothing" we got. I'm sorry about "my world imploded so I ran" is just not a story to me.

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  123. lala28 May 2013 at 01:54

    Well, we'll see. I must admit that this season has been so disappointing to me that I'm not very excited about the finale. I don't really care what happens. It has to be CRAZY AMAZING for me to raise this season from the bottom of the list where I have it. Haha!

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  124. CyanaT8 May 2013 at 18:31

    S8 is turning a corner for me depending on the finale like you. If S8 was "shortened" for some reason and ended at 8.15 (the silly manwitch/female dog familiar episode) I wouldn't pony up the $$$ to buy the DVDs unless I found them on sale for <$10. I enjoyed Dean's Purgatory sl and liked Benny (he was woefully underused except as a unwitting sledgehammer to divide the boys), liked several episodes pre-8.09, liked 8.10-12 well enough, liked 8.13/14 a lot and disliked 8.15. But overall I didn't like 8.01 -8.15 enough to buy a shortened season at "full price".
    Now, so far, the only post 8.15 ep that I didn't enjoy is 8.18 (dislike Krissy and always have). And I've seen nothing (and read nothing) so far concerning 8.22 that leads me to feel I'll dislike the ep. Potentially we might get a satisfying conclusion to the most important "Sam arc" - his DB sl which was ditched with no solid explanation in S6/7 and until 8.21.
    I've been burned by purchasing S7 DVDs even after reading the ComicCon spoiler of "Sam didn't look for Dean" though I waited until the last minute (several days before the release) to buy the set, thinking "surely there will be some better explanation that will be revealed". (I already own S4-8 [eps released to date] on Amazon VOD so I have ready access to re-watch my fave S7/8 episodes).
    I'm waiting for the finale to actually decide whether to purchase the DVDs (or Blue Rays). If the finale is satisfying (I thought the S7 was the weakest finale but it had lots of potential separate arcs for Sam and Dean going into S8) I'll buy them.

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  125. CyanaT8 May 2013 at 22:37

    The primo deal breaker for me against buying the DVDs unless down the road I can them really cheap to complete my set would be ANY version of Cas (I know you like Cas) sacrificing himself for Sam; eg., dying temporarily again or 'transferring his Grace' to name a few scenarios to "heal Sam" without completing the purification process (completing the Third Trial), assuming the boys choose to not close Hell. We've been down this road just over a year ago and it was a terrible insult to many Sam Fans.

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  126. SuePo8 May 2013 at 23:36

    Which is as good an explanation as any as to why he'll wear it all day, everyday. Unless he goes outside. Maybe that's his 'stay at home' sweater and he has another outfit for going out? He may need to get the 'going out' sweater out of mothballs now that he's been found.

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  127. SuePo8 May 2013 at 23:38

    And I'm sure it's a wonderful purse!! :) but ya gotta admit the place smells kinda funky.

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  128. rehabber9 May 2013 at 00:40

    The only one I have been in is Conroe TX and it smells like any other store to me and I have been told I have a nose like a bloodhound. lol

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  129. lala29 May 2013 at 01:23

    I don't understand it either. If some explanation or retcon is NOT planned, then I can only say Carver must be a very stubborn guy. How dare the audience expect a better explanation when he already gave such a "great" one before? How dare we question his decision to have Sam act in a completely OOC way? Don't we know he knows Sam better than even Jared who also disagreed w/the writing for Sam?

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  130. lala29 May 2013 at 02:09

    The only episodes I truly enjoyed (i.e., loved every minute) was ATGB, EHH, hellhound episode, and Prometheus.

    I did like Benny and agree that he was woefully underused. Honestly, Benny's only purpose seemed to be for contrived conflict/tension between the brothers. It didn't help that I, personally, found nothing very genuine or believable about Sam's "problems" w/Benny.

    I like the MOL but they're not really doing anything w/it. I have no interest in purchasing this season though I'd like to have it just to make my set complete. I got S7 as a birthday gift, and the only episodes I genuinely liked were MTNB, HCW, and Plucky's. TGND wasn't bad but it started that awful "Amy" storyline, which was completely pointless. This show just isn't what it used to be.

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  131. Winchester ♥11 May 2013 at 17:39

    Аs Dean would say... AWESOME!

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  132. CyanaT8 April 2014 at 04:53

    I know and Carver made Sam look even worse by having him tell Amelia and her dad (something like) "I lost my brother ***a few months ago***, my world imploded and I ran" (I'm aware that I'm stringing Sam's entire conversations about Dean/Sam's "alleged POV" into single sentence but that's all we got) which some (or even most of the online fandom to be (im)patiently waiting for what Sam DID for those few months.

    Why did Carver even approve that asterisked dialog if he had no intention of ever covering that much missing time in "Sam's timeline"? He could have just left what Sam told Dean in the premiere stand "... I fixed the Impala and just drove" (Sam would have to arrange the impala be towed to a body shop/all service repair gas station to have repairs completed - about say two -three weeks tops - its an older model car and parts might need to ordered; all this, grieve for Dean and decide not look because was the "mature thing to do"). Then immediately start DRIVING, be blinded by grief because you chose to do the mature thing and hit dog. Boom, likely three weeks max , not pointedly "a few months".

    I cannot understand why Carver seems intent on overlooking that wide a gap in time unless he is so firm in his position of "Sam's fully explained himself and tough if some fans are having a hard time accepting it" unless Carver has a (possibly retconned?) explanation up his sleeve (anything from Sam-was-abducted by aliens for the missing months, lol, to angel/demon interference). Of course the "problem" with any alternative (*g*) explanations is some fans will still wave their pitchforks at Sam anyway for not taking ownership for his neglect of his brother again.

    The sad "factoid" is that Carver/Singer have left more than several continuity busters by quite a few writers this season go "unedited" unless S8 is intentionally an AU season on one brother's part (it's been suggested by several fans already).

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  133. rehabber8 April 2014 at 04:54

    Yeah, if the Sam problem is not explained, I will only buy it under $10. Since I have all the seasons would want this to complete the set.

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  134. CyanaT8 April 2014 at 04:55

    The premiere made so angry that I rarely re-watch but I vaguely recall after the hug Sam said "Dude you're freakin' alive!" and then Dean said he was in Purgatory, yada yah, and Sam said "You were in Purgatory... for the whole year" or something like that. Sam never explicitly told Dean (that I recall) that he thought Dean was dead - he only expressed the inverse, surprise/happiness that Dean "was alive" and again IIRC he only said he lost his brother to Amelia and her dad. We were obviously meant to assume Sam thought Dean was dead but my recollection of the early episodes except for I re-watched multiple times (8.02, 07 and 08) is hazy so I may be wrong.

    I know and I have also this before - why WOULD he look for Dean if he thought he was dead and why should he be made to apologize because Dean wasn't dead. If Dean was dead there was no reason (at the time) to think Dean went to Hell so why would Sam pull him out of Heaven (even though Dean referred to Heaven as "Memorex")? (I'm deliberately disregarding the fact that Sam would nearly immediately figured out Dean and Cas got zapped to Purgatory leaving the only question of were they alive or dead).

    Sam certainly knows by now that each time one of them brings the "other back" it causes more disruption of the "natural order". And didn't ghost!Bobby tell the boys before they burned the flask "When it's your time, go?" Maybe that advice stuck with Sam so he acted the way he did (not look) but why did Soul!Bobby rake Sam over the coals for holding to their bogus agreement. It makes zero sense and is a definite disconnect from the S7 Finale.

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